Alcohol. The anti-alcohol lobby say just one drink increases your risk of cancer, and news yesterday was that cigarette-warning-style labels will start appearing on bottles of booze. The social costs of alcohol are often cited as an additional reason to crack down on it. Here, Dr Eric Crampton casts a sceptical eye over how that social cost is measured.

Every drop is doing you damage. Photo: AP

If I told you that surfing cost the Australian economy a billion dollars and that we consequently should make life jackets compulsory, you could be forgiven for thinking that the number represented some real cost to the community; perhaps the cost of rescuing surfers caught in rips or medical care for those injured in accidents.

But if you found out that the vast majority of that figure was the combination of surfers’ expenditures on their boards and the costs of holidays they took heading up to Yallingup, you might think twice about endorsing the policy recommendation. And you might wonder a bit why anybody would have thought those costs could matter for policy.

And so it is with the often-cited social costs of alcohol. In 2008, Macquarie University’s Professor David Collins and the University of Queensland’s Associate Professor Helen Lapsley estimated that alcohol consumption cost Australia some $15 billion for the 2004/5 fiscal year.

The figure proved popular, being cited dozens of times on Australian television and radio, more than 100 times in newspaper articles and op-eds and it’s been referenced on a dozen occasions in Australia’s Parliament by nine MPs. With one large number proving popular, others like Professor Robin Room went on to produce even larger figures.

But what isn’t widely understood is that these papers use a method that, like the surfing example, mostly counts the costs drinkers impose upon themselves. This “Cost of Illness” method varies considerably from standard methods of economic analysis. There are many ways of producing a cost figure, but once we stray too far from standard economic method, we cannot interpret the produced figure as being economically meaningful.

There has emerged a cottage industry of academics and consultants using this Cost of Illness method to produce large figures for Ministries of Health from Canada to Australia. When the method counts over a billion dollars that drinkers spend on their own alcohol in Australia, but dismisses that those drinkers just might have enjoyed having a drink, the practice borders on advocacy.

In its final report which was publicly released in May last year, the Henry Tax Review argued that alcohol tax is a blunt tool for addressing harms caused by alcohol, but that tax can address these spillover costs where marginal social costs otherwise exceeds the price of alcohol.

But methods that include private costs as public provide a distorted picture of the appropriate level of taxation; the Henry Review urged caution about relying on these methods used by Professor Collins and Associate Professor Lapsley. As the $15 billion figure includes a large proportion of costs which fall on the drinker, the figure is meaningless from an economic and policy perspective.

Together with Matt Burgess of the Institute for the Study of Competition and Regulation and Brad Taylor from Australian National University, I have had a close look at the $15 billion figure and compared it to the figure that would have emerged had more standard economic method been used in its construction.

The end result was that policy-relevant annual costs of alcohol consumption in Australia were no more than $3.8 billion. To provide perspective for examination of spillover costs, the total tax take from alcohol (excluding GST) for the same financial year was $4.1 billion.

In other words, alcohol consumers contributed more in tax than they cost others through the health system and traffic accidents. The new $3.8 billion figure is not the result of cost-benefit analysis – more work would need to be done to quantify the benefits of drinking. Rather, it is the figure that emerges when we apply standard economic method and count only the costs tabulated by Professor Collins and Associate Professor Lapsley that truly count as spillovers.

Unfortunately, political discussion of alcohol’s sometimes tragic costs is too often clouded by emotion. It’s not that we do not care when a drinker falls ill or, worse still, loses his or her life.

But if we are going to count the costs that some drinkers impose upon themselves through their consumption, a fair analysis would also have to count against those private costs the benefits that drinkers enjoy from a night out or from a quiet drink at home. Or, it would not present costs drinkers impose upon themselves as being costs to society.

On Thursday, I will be presenting to the Australian Conference of Economists in Canberra as part of the Conference’s annual “Dodgy” awards. I’ll be arguing that preventative health suffers from the worst application of economic analysis to policy, Professor Collins and Associate Professor Lapsley’s report and how it’s been treated in policy discourse will help me to make that case.

139 comments

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    • NigelC says:

      06:59am | 13/07/11

      About time some scrutiny was applied to these dodgy claims.

    • grumpy old man says:

      07:45am | 13/07/11

      did you just take an article criticizing anti smoking activities and do a find and replace with alcohol? these all sound like the same arguments!
      that the wowsers in society would start on alcohol once they had finished playing with tobacco was so predictable. The reality is that both are substances that have a potential for harm, but are legal in this country.
      the real issue is not what a govt should or should not do in legislating to control use of either substance, but what role a govt should play in the daily lives of the citizens of the country. It seems at the moment that we have a succession of govts who believe we are not to be trusted to get ourselves dressed in the morning without their direct input, and who should intervene to the greatest extent possible in how we live our lives. I for one find this reprehensible and a breach of my right as an individual to make choices and accept consequences. I simply don’t want the govt interfering in my life.
      I pay my taxes, so basically go away!
      I will drink and smoke, drive fast cars, ride motorbikes like i stole them and generally enjoy my life. I will also make sure my family is brought up to respect others, share their toys, and be productive citizens. That’s my part of the deal, what I expect from the govt in return is that they stay out of my life and let me lead it, not them!

    • Another Grumpy old man says:

      11:20am | 13/07/11

      you stole my response. Good work.

    • Woodsy says:

      12:51pm | 13/07/11

      Grumpy Old Man, you have hit every nail on the head. Top work.

    • grumpy old man says:

      01:01pm | 13/07/11

      another grumpy…sorry about that!

    • Matthew says:

      03:01pm | 13/07/11

      What happens when you hit someone while driving your fast car or riding your motorbike like you stole it?  I’m not saying you shouldn’t have the right to do any of these things.  But at the end of the day you live in a large community that would also like to do all these things but everyone of those things you list there has the potential to damage someone else’s life.

      I agree with what you’re saying but there’s still a point with where the government has to step in.  Where’s the line?  We all think they’ve crossed it but the government thinks they aren’t even close to it.  The voters (you and me) of this country need to make it clear that the government has crossed it.  Not just complain that they have.

    • Lauryn says:

      05:12pm | 13/07/11

      @ Matthew - the government steps in only when you actually harm somebody else. You hit a person with your fast car - the government steps in. You drive a fast car with absolutely no adverse consequences - none of the governments damn business.

    • Pete says:

      09:28pm | 13/07/11

      “the real issue is not what a govt should or should not do in legislating to control use of either substance, but what role a govt should play in the daily lives of the citizens of the country.”
      And it would be, if you paid your medical bills which would easily outstrip your earnings when you get cancer. But you don’t: hence society’s need to control these substances. Inane tobacco industry stooges are evident on this site, as with others.

    • Tom says:

      10:40pm | 13/07/11

      I’m glad you’re on private health insurance

    • Tane says:

      11:49pm | 13/07/11

      @ Lauryn - Sadly the government steps in the moment you drive that fast car above the speed limit, whether or not you actually hurt anyone. It’s as if they started breathalyzing everyone in a public place and placing anyone with too high a blood alcohol level under house arrest.

    • Bob Stewart says:

      07:48am | 13/07/11

      Scrutiny? Come now, the hundreds of millions spent through the years for so called deterrents and education and indeed, the hundreds of millions for health care as a result of over indulgence needs just a simple piece of legislation.

      Shift the social and medical cost of over indulgence from the community and the free health system to the universally accepted principle of User Pays

    • Another Dave says:

      08:37am | 13/07/11

      That’s his point.  The user is paying 300 million more in alcohol excise, than is spent from the public purse.  Users are paying.

    • Chris L says:

      09:22am | 13/07/11

      @Bob - Who in their right mind would look enviously upon America’s health system?

    • Sceptic says:

      09:29am | 13/07/11

      US Health policy is changing…many prefer user pays, rather than bearing the cost for others who don’t work or contribute to the health system.

    • Tom says:

      10:41am | 13/07/11

      Another Dave, Any exercise trying to quarantine dollars for alcohol related illness from other substance or lifestyle abuses is a wank.

    • Brando says:

      07:57am | 13/07/11

      I don’t smoke and I drink very little. However I don’t mind if you do. In fact, with all the extra tax you pay I’d like you to both smoke and drink more and have you ever considered taking up gambling as a hobby?

      I’m sorry people but I have little sympathy for you now that the wowsers have moved onto alcohol. You stood around and did nothing while they attacked smokers and now that they have clearly won that battle did you really think they would stop there? How naive of you.

      Wowsers don’t really care if you drink or smoke it’s all about control and having the power to interfere in others lives. They’re just the neighbourhood busybody magnified to the nth degree. Haven’t you noticed over the last 20 years just how many rules they have imposed to stop you doing just about anything. Many other countries don;t have these rules and get along just fine. I once saw five people crammed onto a scooter in Vietnam and they all looked quite happy about it. Try doing that in the main street and just see how you go.

      They even have their own department at your workplace which they have cleverly called “occupational health and safety” because it sounds far better than “we just think you’re too dumb to anything we don’t control” department

      Yes alcohols next, then they will move onto sugar, then salt then anything else they can think of. Eventually you will need to go to the chemist with a doctors prescription to get a can of Coke.

      If you want to smoke or drink yourself into an early grave please feel free to do so. We will pick up the extra taxes you will pay while you’re alive and save on medical costs when you die early. You get to indulge in your pleasurable activity without being continually hassled. Sounds like a win/win situation to me.

      So people of Australia, stand up and tell the wowsers where they can shove their rules. The next person you see having a drink or a smoke go up and tell them you support their right to enjoy themselves any way they like as long as it doesn’t interfere with you. Even it that means their right to indulge themselves to death.

      If you don’t eventually the wowsers will move onto trying to ban something you enjoy

    • Dan says:

      10:40am | 13/07/11

      PLEASE run for Parliament - I’ll vote for you!

    • Libertine says:

      11:17am | 13/07/11

      ‘In Germany they first came for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn’t speak up because I was a protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was nobody left to speak up.’ - Reverend Martin Niemoller, Germany, 1930’s

    • Lauryn says:

      05:15pm | 13/07/11

      Brando, will you marry me?

    • mattkas says:

      06:52pm | 13/07/11

      Superb insights Brando, congratulations.

    • Adrian says:

      08:14am | 13/07/11

      I understand that the esteemed Dr Crampton is in fact employed by the Alcoholic Beverages Industry, so I suggest what he says is a little tainted, don’t you think.

    • Markus says:

      09:11am | 13/07/11

      Feel free to find any fault with any point he has raised.

    • Shane* says:

      10:01am | 13/07/11

      Very interesting point, Adrian.

      I’m no economist, but I know spin when I see it. There are costs of alcohol (economic, social and sometimes unquantifiable) and there are benefits of alcohol, (economic, social and sometimes unquantifiable).

      Generating a precise plus-or-minus figure is always going to depend on who is crunching the numbers. Relying on that tailor-made-number is moronic, regardless of which side of the argument you’re on.

      I will say this, though… it’s difficult to claim that the local pub’s profit margins should be considered equally as important as the life of someone hit by a drunk driver. In my opinion.

    • remlap says:

      10:39am | 13/07/11

      Employed and commissioned to compile a report are two different things. And what he was reporting was the economic modelling, which he has indicated is patently flawed, regardless of who commissioned him.

    • Jordan Rastrick says:

      12:12pm | 13/07/11

      I’m actually in favour of some degree of nanny-state ism when it comes to drugs (including tobacco and alcohol) and gambling. But its clear Dr Crampton’s point is a reasonable one, and is not invalidated simply by some possible apprehended bias because the alcohol industry funded his work. The government should commission more detailed independent analysis of the actual societal costs of alcohol consumption by economic experts, not just public health professors.

    • Dennis Pomo says:

      12:48pm | 13/07/11

      Yes but he wrote the terms and conditions, then ran it through the University ethics body. Stated all the important details somewhere on his blog at the time. The mistake is to assume that government is by default more impartial than industry, they have their own agenda too - often involves concentrating power and money. They just use public funding to justify it. IF you don’t produce the goods funding tends to shift. Hopefully facts and superior methodology can win out over time.

    • Rossco says:

      08:26am | 13/07/11

      Thank you for this excellent article.

      It’s about time we started fighting the nanny state morons who propose we increase the pricing and labelling on everything.

    • mike j says:

      02:26pm | 14/07/11

      About time?

      You missed that boat, Rossco. It’s well past time.

      I hope you’re not expecting smokers to join your little crusade. They’re probably still butthurt from how you all stood around cheering and watching them getting reamed.

    • Token says:

      08:28am | 13/07/11

      So… Can we make marijuana legal now?

    • Bob Stewart says:

      09:13am | 13/07/11

      Why not? The protection of the individual freedoms that have been hard won by Australians for Australia are far more important. Go for it. I will always protest any political curb to the right of the individual in the Nation. The freedoms that we take for our right have made us the envy of the rest of the World.

      But you pay for ALL of the consequences. What could be fairer than that?

      One in 5 roads deaths illicit drug related. one in 3 from booze. 25,000 calls to Drug Help Line in SA 09-10 and the children? A little 9 yr old boy died from neglect of drug addict parents who were originally charged several years previously growing more weed than they needed for their own use as a precursor to be able to afford the heavy stuff - brown heroin laced pinkies.  I have a few coneheads in my small community who I have had to work with.

    • Chris L says:

      10:23am | 13/07/11

      @Bob - Those statistics just show that weed causes fewer problems than alcohol. Add to that the fact that nobody gets into a stoned brawl (as opposed to drunken brawl).

      The idea of weed being a gateway to harder substances has been contested quite successfully. I suspect that couple who went on to heroin would probably have ended up there even without using cannibis.

    • Token says:

      10:30am | 13/07/11

      You realise that one of the most vociferous opponents of marijuana legalisation is the alcohol industry, right?

      Have a look into the opposition against the recent Prop 19 vote in California for an example of this.

      Also, marijuana =/= heroin. Anyone drawing that comparison is either completely ignorant and/or full of shit.

    • Jack says:

      11:21am | 13/07/11

      Weed is definitely a gateway drug - to KFC, saying ‘dude’ alot and watching Kevin Smith movies.

    • Tom says:

      01:15pm | 13/07/11

      Sorry Token, mental health units are clogged up with self absorbed wankers who toked all sorts of shit till their brains turned to shit. The chemicals in THC are potentially threatening to a DNA molecule and marijuana has a known correlation with paranoia.

      These morons are using up taxes that should be used for fixing children’s broken arms, delivering babies and providing comfort to the elderly who worked hard to make Australia great for us.

      If marijuana were legal, we would still have the same queues of parasites syphoning of the country’s wealth and abusing the country’s good will in health centres.

      If marijuana were to be legalised then you should be forced to register for marijuana use, be automatically disqualifed from driving a car (given there is no adequate breataliser process) and from getting free treatment from our overworked health system.

      PS: I don’t like drunks either.

    • Token says:

      01:44pm | 13/07/11

      @Tom - Good to see you also fall into the full of shit category.

      No causational link has ever been found between marijuana use and schizophrenia, but continue using that line as it immediately paints you as ignorant on the subject.

      Your argument about economic damage is spurious as the tax revenue alone from legalisation would far outweigh any perceived increase in health funding required, AND ignores the many medicinal uses of the drug that makes treatment for common conditions cheaper than currently used pharmaceuticals.

      I know you’d hate the facts of this debate to get out and about before you can dishonestly smear proponents of marijuana legalisation, but we’re getting sick of ignorant fools like you crying “Wolf!” anytime they see something they don’t like.

      What happened to you anyway? Stoner take your girlfriend or something?

    • elle1606 says:

      03:54pm | 13/07/11

      Legalise it? and put the booze nearly out of business? THey wouldn’t dream of it. They’d rather us be porcelain queens too drunk to question the system rather then insightful human beings. ANything man made is God and anything that grows in the ground is taboo.

    • Tom says:

      04:33pm | 13/07/11

      Token, my “ignorance” as you described it was acquired when studying second year organic chemistry at uni. I made enquiries about LSD which was the rage at the time (dates me doesn’t it). The surprise to me was that the molecular structure of marijuana THC had a very similar characteristics to those attached to LSD and had the potential to attack DNA in the same way and cause similar symptons to the bum trips and mental conditions being experience with LSD.

      That info and opinion was passed to me by my lecturer who, rather than being ignorant, had a pretty good grip on the subject and also mingled with others who also had a pretty good grip on the subject.

      Given your frenetic over-use of ad hominems such as “ignorant”,  I can see you also have a pretty good grip on something.

      But hey man, “Jack lives here”? So like, man, some doooods never have to grow up.

    • Jason Todd says:

      08:23pm | 13/07/11

      Tom, Yes. Your understanding of the subject does date you. As someone who has studied organic chemistry more recently (as in, after disco died,) I can tell you that while the molecular structures of both LSD and THC, share some similar characteristics, are wildly different in both their structure and function. If you had come through an organic chemistry course, surely you would have learned that the smallest difference in structure can lead to a giant change in physical and chemical properties.

      Any lecturer who told you that THC is capable of ‘attacking DNA and causing bad trips’ was either wildly misinformed, being intentionally misleading, or simply not very good.

      Having said that, in the last half century, a lot of drugs have been looked at in greater detail and have become better understood.

      I have to side with Token here. He is correct in suggesting that studies have shown no causational link between pot use and schitzophrenia. However, few of the studies that I have seen indicate that if the user has a pre-existing condition or is prone to it, pot may act as a sort of catalyst.
      Just to be clear, this is not saying pot causes psychological conditions, it may merely precipitate episodes of latent conditions.

      As for where I fall on the legalisation debate, I agree that there are legitimate medical uses that should be explored more without having the stigma of illicit drug use hanging over it. By demonising the drug, we are ensuring a significant reduction in the quality of life of those that may be able to use it for medical means.
      From a recreational perspective; all the studies that I have seen indicate that Marijuana use is less harmful than both tobacco and alcohol. Both of those drugs are legal, Marijuana is not. Legalisation and taxation with stringent controls may be the best course of action. Will it ever happen? Time will tell I guess.

    • Tom says:

      09:42pm | 13/07/11

      Thanks Jason. Good blog, I defer. OK, Token, stop calling everyone ignorant and you have my permission to go and make it legal:
      It was banned for all the wrong reasons in the first place, to kill off the hemp industry.
      Legal availabilty lessens the danger of suppliers being the murky characters who are also being suppliers of hard drugs.
      It saves police having to arrest some kid doing experiments.
      It can be taxed.

      @Token, “What happened to you anyway? Stoner take your girlfriend or something?” No, other way around. The stoner lost out his girlfriend to me on account of his sad faced ways. Geez mate, it wasn’t your girlfriend was it?

    • mike j says:

      12:33pm | 14/07/11

      “These morons are using up taxes that should be used for fixing children’s broken arms, delivering babies and providing comfort to the elderly who worked hard to make Australia great for us.”

      Egad! Children are walking around with broken arms, babies are going undelivered, and those elderly who weren’t clever enough to buy real estate before their generation artificially inflated property prices are, God forbid, uncomfortable? All because of stoners?

      Was it pot that triggered your latent paranoia, Tom?

    • Tom says:

      02:48pm | 14/07/11

      mike j, if not believing in the Magic Pudding, in your world view, defines someone as “paranoid”, count me in.

      BTW: why not go to Campbelltown ED and watch for yourself. You too could join the ranks of “paranoid”.

    • mike j says:

      03:38pm | 14/07/11

      Not sure what you think ‘watching’ will achieve. Obviously, your confidence in your prejudice stems from some supernatural ability to detect pot smokers, and to distinguish them from people who take other, far more debilitating, drugs.

      My supernatural ability is detecting wankers.

      Calibration… complete.

    • Tom says:

      04:23pm | 14/07/11

      Mike j,

      Your response beggars belief ... “Not sure what you think ‘watching’ will achieve.” Watching will help you get the facts, Mike j. The waiting times. The facts. The lack of available care. The facts.

      I can fully understand why the real world might be a bit of a challenge for you, “supernatural” Mike j. May the force be with you.

      The rest of us mortals would prefer to rely on facts.

    • mike j says:

      06:28pm | 14/07/11

      The facts, man! The waiting times! Dude, the FACTS! The lack of available care. The lack of available care, man. The facts! Duuuuude.

      Remember we were talking about pot, Tom? It can affect your short term memory, you know.

      Jason Todd of post-disco fame already did a sterling job highlighting your ignorance. I’m just poking you with a stick.

    • Tom says:

      08:07pm | 14/07/11

      @Mike J, bugger off Troll.

    • Trumpster says:

      08:30am | 13/07/11

      We are missing the real killer in today’s society. 8-methoxypsoralen is a known carcinogen contained in celery. What we need is a media campaign and labels to let every Australian know that just one stick of celery increases their risk of cancer.

      And don’t get me started on tea, bread, lettuce or mushrooms. All contain known carcinogens. To think that we give these foods to our children!

      And while you are sipping on your morning coffee, know that it contains a complete cocktail of known carcinogens including caffeic acid, furfural, hydroquinone and 4-methylcatechol. Enjoying it?

    • eeldraw says:

      09:15am | 13/07/11

      I’m waiting for the report that O2 is a carcinogen.It probably is and it has been killing all creatures since life began. Stop breathing - gain immortality!!!

    • F-Point says:

      10:24am | 13/07/11

      Well there are hypotheses that molecular oxygen from the atmosphere that can be enzymatically converted in the body to form ionised radical species may then react with the cell’s macromolecules (lipids, proteins, DNA)—reaction with DNA can increase the rate of mutation and thus increase the risk of the tumour cell initiation..

      As they say, life is a sexually-transmitted terminal condition

    • Badoobydooby says:

      03:36pm | 13/07/11

      H20 is a deadly chemical - in large doses it can be lethal. Just ask that woman who died from drinking too much in the radio competition for a Wii.

      H20 MUST be banned. Just look at the evidence.

    • NotBreathing says:

      04:37pm | 13/07/11

      Free oxygen radicals happen. All the time. many chemo drugs have a side effect directly relating to the creation of radical oxygen species (ROS). These are potentially damaging to all cells (with a preference for causing heart/lung damage). Nobody. Even. Breathe.

    • mike j says:

      02:33pm | 14/07/11

      Just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water…

      Dihydrogen monoxide.

      http://www.dhmo.org/

    • Rationalist says:

      09:05am | 13/07/11

      Thank you sir; it is not often The Punch contains the writings of a rational man. I have had the misfortune of being close to the goings on of the NHMRC, and the Universities and “private” bodies that feed information to it.
      Increasingly, I have witnessed the natural shift toward policy driven research, as opposed to research driven policy. Those research proposals that fit the policy leanings of the government, are those that are naturally funded. Increasingly, grants are given to groups that are advocacy groups masquerading as research groups. The latter-day shoddy research churned out by the Cancer Council helps to re-enforce the “morality” of such an approach. Once a case is made that something is “bad”, any dodgy research seems to be excusable as long as it furthers the cause of defeating the percieved evil.

      Rational people are all to often being pushed aside for the sake of the rabid emotionalists. This is simply because the hysterics produce better headlines, and write more press releases. It is a shame that “You will not die from X” does not generate paying clicks.

    • Ginny says:

      09:11am | 13/07/11

      Base alcohol policy on common sense.
      Raise the drinking age to 21.
      Single most effective thing that can be done to end the carnage on our roads and in our streets and it doesn’t cost us anything.
      FACT

    • PTom says:

      10:11am | 13/07/11

      Rubbish.

      Have we stopped 14 years drinking? NO so what make you think 18 to 21 will stop and why should they. They vote and fight for this country they should have the same rights as those that seat in the RSL playing pokies.

      BTW more people die on the road on the from speeding then from alcohol.
      http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadsafety/speedandspeedcameras/index.html

    • Jasper says:

      10:13am | 13/07/11

      A “FACT” you say?

      Got a link to some actual research to back that up?

    • fml says:

      10:14am | 13/07/11

      Wont stop people from drinking. That would be a knee jerk reaction. Better to get people to drink through their university years instead of starting to drink during their formative work years.

    • Markus says:

      10:17am | 13/07/11

      How would it end the carnage? Drink driving is already illegal for everyone (not just those between 18 and 21), it still doesn’t stop it from happening.
      And it will cost a mint in extra police personnel to properly enforce.

      The US is already seriously looking at dropping their own drinking age down to 19, recognising that trying to enforce the limit of 21 is causing more problems than it is solving in the 18-20 age bracket.

    • Ginny says:

      10:40am | 13/07/11

      In the United States, the drinking age has gone up and down since prohibition ended in 1933.
      Since the 1970s, at least 70 studies have examined the effects of either increasing or decreasing the minimum legal drinking age MLDA.

      Research findings
      A higher minimum legal drinking age is effective in preventing alcohol-related deaths and injuries among youth. When the MLDA has been lowered, injury and death rates increase, and when the MLDA is increased, death and injury rates decline (Wagenaar, 1993).

      A higher MLDA results in fewer alcohol-related problems among youth, and the 21-year-old MLDA saves the lives of well over 1,000 youth each year (Jones et al, 1992; NHTSA, 1989). Conversely, when the MLDA is lowered, motor vehicle crashes and deaths among youth increase. At least 50 studies have evaluated this correlation (Wagenaar, 1993).
      A common argument among opponents of a higher MLDA is that because many minors still drink and purchase alcohol, the policy doesn’t work. The evidence shows, however, that although many youth still consume alcohol, they drink less and experience fewer alcohol-related injuries and deaths (Wagenaar, 1993).

      Research shows that when the MLDA is 21, people under age 21 drink less overall and continue to do so through their early twenties (O’Malley & Wagenaar, 1991).

      http://tinyurl.com/3r3uyrn

    • Ginny says:

      10:44am | 13/07/11

      PTom
      Not rubbish as I have just pointed out.
      Regarding your “They vote and fight for this country”
      No one is taking away their right to vote and no one is forcing them to serve in the military.
      The drinking age was lowered because young men were being conscripted and sent off to war with no say in the matter. In America, after the Vietnam war the drinking age was raised because conscription was stopped and the data was in on teenage drinking.

    • PTom says:

      03:06pm | 13/07/11

      Did you ignore that speed is the biggest cause of death on our roads NOT alcohol

      You are right they not forced to serve any more in the military but you will force them not to drink in their own country, so they then can be like so many and do the run down to Mexico from the USA to binge.

      The drinking age in the USA was 21 before Vietnam in 1984 it become standard across the USA to combat drink driving.

      Those studies are flawed as the increase the LDA was not on it own. Other countries with no LDA should the same pattern of over the same time periods. Lookat reports here and in Canada.

      http://www.grsproadsafety.org/themes/default/pdfs/Drinking Age Limits.pdf

      It is not alcohol.

    • EM says:

      04:16pm | 13/07/11

      Or even better, keep the drinking age the same and raise the driving age to 30.

      The drinkiing age never stopped me or my mates drinking at 14, but I can’t remember any of us driving until we were 18.

      You’ve got your ideas back to front you nimrod…

    • Matthew says:

      04:42pm | 13/07/11

      PTom, did you even read the article that you linked?  “the 1970s and early 1980s, drink driving was Australia’s biggest road safety challenge.”  It clearly states in it that restrictions on alcohol have reduced the number of alcohol deaths significantly.

      Further restrictions can only help this.  Especially when those restrictions are applied to the highest risk group (under 25s).

      There’s also significant proof that lowering the limit from 0.05 to 0.02 can reduce the risk of alcohol related crashes too.  I can’t remember what it was but it was something ridiculous like 80%.

    • Markus says:

      05:58pm | 13/07/11

      “There’s also significant proof that lowering the limit from 0.05 to 0.02 can reduce the risk of alcohol related crashes too.”
      Source please. The only ‘proof’ I have seen was raised by Bligh in her bid to introduce it to QLD, and seemed to be comprised entirely of “Sweden have a 0.02 BAC, and look how good their driving record is!”

    • Ginny says:

      06:45pm | 13/07/11

      PTom
      Please tell me how in what new way you would address speeding; what the cost would be? Anything ground breaking and cost free solutions in your magical bag of tricks?
      reading the drinking age works.

      “Force them not to drink”? Perhaps you shouldn’t have had as many before you wrote your reply.

      Thanks for proving reinforcing my point about why the age was raised.

    • hangover 3 says:

      09:16am | 13/07/11

      Don’t anyone touch our booze!  It is the only thing that matters. It is dearer to me than life itself, and any threat to it will bring down my unrivalled wrath. I don’t want to know that it is killing me. I don’t want to know what harm it can do. I don’t want to know about its effects on me and those I love. Now just shut up and go away.

    • If you Drink Don't Drive says:

      09:25am | 13/07/11

      After you have identified your child killed by a drunken driver then see if youmight change your mind.  Social drinking yes, pubs and clubs open all hours, no.  And make all high alcahol drinks very, very expensive.

    • Jack says:

      10:02am | 13/07/11

      You effectively want to tell the 17.2 million adults in this country what they can and cant do because 500 people were killed in road accidents were alcohol ‘might have been a factor’.

      That’s 0.0029% of the population, if you are struggling.

      Get out of my country.

    • B says:

      10:10am | 13/07/11

      You would have to question the sanity of a child that gets in a car with a drunk driver.

      Also are you stating that all drinkers are drunk drivers?  Because I find that offensive.  I go to GREAT lengths to get home safely and without a car when I have been drinking.  So dont you DARE assume all drinkers are drunk drivers.  Oh.  Your one of them aren’t you?  One of the wowsers!!

    • Chris L says:

      10:29am | 13/07/11

      Anyone who goes out drinking thinking that they’ll drive home was an idiot while sober (intoxication should never reduce their responsibility for the consquences of their actions).

      Loss of life is always a tragedy but kids have been killed playing football and swimming in the pool. Life is dangerous.

    • EM says:

      04:20pm | 13/07/11

      So you want to punish the rest of us for the mistake of a very small minority?

      Wanker.

    • Elphaba says:

      09:27am | 13/07/11

      I call bullshit on one drink increasing your risk of cancer.  A scare tactic if ever I’ve seen one.

      Sure, put warning on the bottles.  It’s not going to stop me enjoying a drink now and then. 

      God, the anti-alcohol lobby - seriously, they must be the biggest bunch of boring nerds out there.  5 minutes of conversation with one of them and you’d probably want to shoot yourself in the face.

    • JohnW says:

      10:10am | 13/07/11

      They are probably thinking the same thing about you. Hide your head in the sand if you don’t want to know the facts.

    • Budz says:

      10:32am | 13/07/11

      I wouldn’t necessarily call bullshit. It may be true, but that’s the same way that one feed at McDonalds or KFC increases your risk of cancer, but that increase is so small that it’s hardly significant.
      Same can be said for every week that you don’t get your 3 x 30 mins of exercise, you are increasing your risk of cancer.

    • Elphaba says:

      11:23am | 13/07/11

      @Budz, I suppose - still if you cut of everything in your life that potentially caused cancer, you’d be living in bubble wrap in a room with no sharp edges.

      Surely moderation is the key?  Whatever happened to moderation? *sigh*

    • Miller Lite says:

      12:01pm | 13/07/11

      Budz
      Why stop at cancer and when you talk about feeding at Maccas and KFC?
      What about obesity, diabetes, heart disease?  Feeding at fast food outlets have a truly significant affect on our health.

    • Shane* says:

      12:05pm | 13/07/11

      @Elphaba,

      Can we move past the everything causes cancer argument? It’s tired and wrong. Everything does NOT give you cancer. How many substances are there in the world? Stupid question, really, isn’t it? The correct answer is: countless. Now, how many of them are classified as definitely carcinogenic?

      The correct answer is: 107.

      Only 107 substances are deemed definitely carcinogenic. Most of them are rare or the kind of thing we’re most likely to come across in quantities measured in Parts Per Million. Plutonium, things like that. There are only a handful that we’d come across in our daily lives in levels that might be dangerous. Ethanol (alcohol) is one of them.

      Source: http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Classification/ClassificationsGroupOrder.pdf

    • Trumpster says:

      12:28pm | 13/07/11

      @shane* - I assume you are only looking at the group 1 carcinogens and not the group 2A carcinogens (probably carcinogenic) or 2B (possibly carcinogenic) because there are hundreds more the IARC has identified in those classes.

      The fact is that about half of all the substances studied by the IARC have shown some carcinogenic potential in humans or animals. BUT that doesn’t mean they present anything other than a negligible risk to your health.

    • Elphaba says:

      12:29pm | 13/07/11

      @Shane, thank you for the link.

      The point that I’m trying to make, is that you could cut all these things out and it still wouldn’t guarantee that your risk of cancer decreases.  That’s because cancer is a much more complicated beast than that. And a hyper vigilant attitude about every single thing you come in contact with, or ingest, or stand next to, is going to make life pretty stressful.

      Like I said, put the labels on there if it makes the anti-alcohol lobby happy.  Consume all things in moderation.  But I think the lobby group is not doing themselves any favours by screeching about how you can’t even have one drink without the threat of cancer hanging over you.

      Must all the enjoyment in life be sucked out?

    • Shane* says:

      12:48pm | 13/07/11

      @Elphaba

      Well then I guess it boils down to whether you prefer living a life of blissful ignorance or living a life of stressful knowledge… :D

      Either way, does the knowledge that alcohol can cause cancer change my drinking habits? Nope! I’ll continue to enjoy my drink at a responsible level.

      Frankly I suspect the government is keen to absolve themselves of guilt. If they had kept in the dark over the alcohol-cancer link, then in 50 years they’d have a whole bunch of “You didn’t tell us because you loved the taxes so much and now I have cancer” lawsuits on their hands.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:27pm | 13/07/11

      @Shane - blissful ignorance, blissful ignorance!! wink  jks.

      They probably are trying to cove their arse - but surely they would have thought of some extension to cover alcohol and fast food at around the same time cigarettes were deemed bad for you…

    • Budz says:

      02:51pm | 13/07/11

      No you wouldn’t want to cut out everything in your life that could cause cancer. I guess the key is to have the knowledge of what is good and not good for you so you can make an educated choice on how you live your life. It’s the old risk vs reward proposition.

    • AdamC says:

      09:48am | 13/07/11

      Your links are useful, Dishpan, but this article, for a general audience, can hardly go into the same level of detail. And, despite your glib characterisation to the contrary, the primary criticism being made by the author is that the study in question included ‘internal costs’ - costs to the drinker - as external costs - costs to society.

    • TheDishpan says:

      10:16am | 13/07/11

      AdamC

      You talk about internal costs and external costs as though there is a standard list somewhere that everyone (including the general reader) knows about. There’s not.

      Crampton didn’t even go so far as to cite some examples of how is analysis excluded things that were included in what he was critiquing. General audience or not, that’s poor form.

    • AdamC says:

      03:29pm | 13/07/11

      Dishpan, I would have thought that, in most cases, the difference between an individual cost and a social cost is pretty clear cut. In some cases, there may be some subjectivity, but the author can hardly be expected to argue those in a brief article.

      I still don’t really understand your criticism. It seems to have changed from ‘Crampton didn’t set out why he disagreed with the study’s authors’ to ‘Crampton should have provided some examples illustrating the basis of his disagreement.’

    • AdamC says:

      09:34am | 13/07/11

      This is an excellent article. It is terrific to see someone who has the time and skills critiquing some of the more problematic, ‘think of a number and quintuple it’ statistics out there in the field of public health. We seem to have developed something of an advocacy/grants academic complex designed to churn out findings in support of particular agendas. This is a refreshing change.

    • Seanr says:

      10:21am | 13/07/11

      “We seem to have developed something of an advocacy/grants academic complex designed to churn out findings in support of particular agendas”...the cynic in me concurs Adam.
      The reality is that you wouldn’t get much money if you came out with ‘well :insert field of study: can do some harm but there are worse things out there”

    • Zee says:

      09:38am | 13/07/11

      There is something seriously wrong when society punishes good people for the actions of bad people.

      People who drink in moderation, and don’t put others at risk with their drinking, should not be punished because of the actions of alcoholics, violent drunks and drink drivers.

      And absolutely, this same point should be carried through to drug legislation as well.

      It is disappointing that the wowsers who protest the most on these issues are the ones who benefit the most from the double standard. We don’t put warning labels on churches or mosques after abortion centre bombings and 9/11. The reason we don’t is because the vast majority of church/mosque goers, like the vast majority of people who purchase alcohol, do not then go on and perform disgusting acts. It is high time the responsible people of the world recognise hypocrisy when they see it and denounce it. Failing to understand what someone else chooses to garner enjoyment from is not sufficient cause to prevent them from doing it.

    • Mahhrat says:

      11:28am | 13/07/11

      “There is something seriously wrong when society punishes good people for the actions of bad people.”

      Comment of the day.  Nicely done, Zee.

    • Chris L says:

      09:40am | 13/07/11

      I’ve been engaging in my own research into the effects of alcohol abuse. If it does, indeed, turn out to be fatal I’ll have my executors let you know.

      grin

    • Paddy says:

      09:40am | 13/07/11

      Money money money, tax tax tax .

      Fix the budget fix the budget fix the budget deficit!!!!!!!

      Shift the kids to drugs shift the kids to drugs cheaper and no hangover.

      It’s not about health its about money.

    • Markus says:

      09:43am | 13/07/11

      Top article. I raised similar issues with the results on tobacco in this very report just a few weeks ago.
      Out of the $30+ billion smoking supposedly costs society each year, less than $400 million was medical costs, even including hospice care etc.
      Well short of the over $6 billion in tobacco revenue annually.

    • BMJ says:

      09:46am | 13/07/11

      Haha at all you booze hounds getting touchy about your booze. hehe.

      “No not the booze!!”

    • Chris L says:

      10:46am | 13/07/11

      Don’t get too comfortable BMJ. Someday the wowsers will come after stamp collectors (carcinogens in the glue) and you’ll be in strife then!

    • NSW says:

      09:51am | 13/07/11

      Well written. Mr Crampton, I have the misfortune of being in Canberra this week. I would like to attend the Conference of Economists and listen to your presentation. Whereabouts is it?

    • Geoff Russell says:

      09:57am | 13/07/11

      We don’t really need dodgy reports with inflated costs to know that we need some serious controls on alcohol.

      Much more important are numbers of injuries
      caused by drunk drivers, deaths caused by drunk drivers, pub fights caused by drunks, spousal and child abuse caused by alcohol, plus the various medical diseases and associated suffering.  The money is neither here nor there, but Government bean counters seem to be motivated by nothing without a dollar value.

    • PG says:

      10:07am | 13/07/11

      You can’t put a price on the lives lost and damaged due to alcohol abuse, through drunken fights and drunken drivers. I don’t care what method you use to calculate the other costs, something needs to be done about the alcohol fuelled violence and road deaths.

    • Markus says:

      11:14am | 13/07/11

      “You can’t put a price on the lives lost and damaged due to alcohol abuse, through drunken fights and drunken drivers”
      Actually, according to the report referenced in the article, you can, and they have done just that.

      I can’t put a link to the full report (Punch seems to have the whole Dept of Health website blacklisted), but can be found by searching the title “The costs of tobacco, alcohol and illicit drug abuse to Australian society in 2004/05”

      Some of the dollar values they have come up with for supposedly intangible effects are staggering, to say the least.

    • LC says:

      01:07pm | 13/07/11

      It’s called an effective legal system (one on afraid to jail people for those offenses), and scrapping the drunks defense.

    • fml says:

      10:27am | 13/07/11

      When are the wowsers going to start on the 40 hour work week being a probable cause of cancer??

      Huh?? yeh?

    • Markus says:

      11:53am | 13/07/11

      The most hilarious tangible cost I found in the report was loss of income due to premature death.
      How dare these selfish smokers, drinkers and illicit drug users die before the government has had a chance to tax them into the grave!

    • fml says:

      12:43pm | 13/07/11

      Before long our children will have to pay for the lost tax revenue for our early demise!!

      Shhhhhhh i should keep my mouth shut, i might give some government cronies some ideas

    • Ian Freely says:

      10:40am | 13/07/11

      Great an economist giving our public health tips.Surely we can ignore the dubious health advice from an economist. I’m sure the tobacco company could come up with the same economic arguments - smokers pay more in taxes than are used to care for them.

      Alcohol is a poison. Over consumption is dangerous.

    • Trumpster says:

      11:49am | 13/07/11

      Yes, over consumption is dangerous.

      But there are so many things that are dangerous when misused or overconsumed. Things like drugs - the ones your doctor prescribes - cars when driven irresponsibly.

      The point is that there are many useful and beneficial things that are potentially dangerous. That doesn’t mean they need to be banned, just that care needs to be taken.

      Alcohol is also used in hand disinfectants that are used in hospitals to prevent the transmission of disease. Should they be banned too? What’s the health risk from that?

    • scotty says:

      11:28pm | 13/07/11

      “I’m sure the tobacco company could come up with the same economic arguments - smokers pay more in taxes than are used to care for them.”

      That point was already made a few comments up - $6b in taxes, $400m in healthcare and hospice costs.

      The alcohol wowsers are using exactly the same techniques as the cigarette wowsers.

      Next it will be junk food with utterly ridiculous figures to satisfy the food wowsers

    • Malleeringneck says:

      10:49am | 13/07/11

      Its a wonder they don’t start up the temperance societies again.

    • Shane Coghlan says:

      11:04am | 13/07/11

      Congrats, thanks for telling us you found a different number…

      But without giving us one example of a social cost factored into the $15 Billion Macquarie University’s Professor David Collins and the University of Queensland’s Associate Professor Helen Lapsley that you have excluded to meet your figure of $3.8 billion and a justification for doing so this really becomes a pointless article. Do you just expect to produce a figure and for people to accept it? Economists disagreeing with each other is nothing new and all that you have really given the reader in your article is that you are doing a presentation without any justification that is worth turning up.

      Not to say I wouldn’t be surprised if you were correct though and obviously alot of the medical claims about alcohol and food items that get a run on Today Tonight and A Current Affair are rubbish.

      Wow i’m in a really shitty mood today :/

    • Eric Crampton says:

      11:14am | 13/07/11

      A few notes:
      - Yes, my critique of Collins & Lapsley’s work was funded by industry. But through a grant administered by the University of Canterbury and subject to strict academic freedom conditions. You might wonder whether the Ministries of Health commissioning studies looking for big numbers allow their folks as much freedom.
      - Yes, alcohol abuse can have really high costs. Those costs falling on others can be policy relevant. But we have to throw out most of economics if we want to count privately borne costs the way that Collins & Lapsley have. If you want to do that, that’s up to you. $1.7 billion of their figure is the amount drinkers spend on their own alcohol. It’s a bit of a stretch to reckon that a cost to “society” of drinking. It’s only by splitting out private from public costs that we start getting an idea of how policy can improve outcomes. And I’m in total agreement with prior commenters who’d be happy with crackdowns on repeat drink drivers. Those guys impose real and severe costs on others. Ignition interlocks and zero blood alcohol limits on repeat drink drivers make sense. Ramping up alcohol excise taxes and thereby punishing a whole lot of moderate drinkers who aren’t imposing costs on anybody - not so much.

      - The Dodgies are part of the ACE conference tomorrow at ANU.

    • Simon says:

      12:54pm | 13/07/11

      lets make alcohol free of charge and save society 1.7 billion dollars !

    • ShamWow says:

      11:24am | 13/07/11

      This is what we get for lying down over cigarette restrictions.

    • LC says:

      12:52pm | 13/07/11

      Good point.

      I kind of regret my support of ciggarette labeling now.

    • Luce says:

      01:53pm | 13/07/11

      Not a lot of people like cigarettes, fair enough. But the whole plain packaging thing infringes on commercial freedom.

      How much should the government be able to legislate the suffocation of a legal industry? And it is a slippery slope, as we are now seeing with the anti-alcohol dickheads. What’s next?!

    • LC says:

      12:16pm | 13/07/11

      Any legal drug, from over-the-counter painkillers, to prescription medicines can have equally as dangerous effects as too much alcohol. You take one too many aspirins for your headache, and that’ll be the last headache you ever have. Are we going to see warning labels on aspirin? I doubt it, at least in the short term.

      But seriously, what’s next? Warning labels on cars? Warning labels on sets of steak knifes? Warning labels on toilet seats (push too hard when you’re doing a no.2 and you’ll crap out your large intestine and most likely die if you don’t get urgent medical attention, I’m not kidding)? Warning labels painted on the bottom of privately owned pools? Warning labels on aircraft tickets? Warning labels on plastic bags? Are we going to let it get to the point where everyone is blindfolded, earmuffed and tied to beds in sterile padded rooms being fed through an IV and doing their “business” through tubes?

      Just live and let live, for god’s sake. Everyone is going to die at some point. Sorry, that’s just the way it is.

      F*cking nanny state.

    • Tim says:

      12:43pm | 13/07/11

      The day that amphetaimes and other drugs become cheaper than a cask of wine for the kids, what do you think will happen?

    • Markus says:

      01:18pm | 13/07/11

      Despite cleanskin wine being available at $2 a bottle for 8 standard drinks, most kids still choose the $17 four-pack of premixed cans.

      Anyone who brings a pack/case of these to a party, while simultaneously complaining about being a poor struggling student, deserves to be slapped.

    • sludger says:

      01:20pm | 13/07/11

      It is already a hell of a lot cheaper for teens to buy a few E’s when going to a festival day out than to buy the booze there.  So, guess what happens?

    • Luce says:

      01:57pm | 13/07/11

      Yup. So much lack of forethought or logic in our drug policies. Have a massive crack down on amphetamines and weed, but make the legal alternative so damn expensive (12 bucks for a mid-strength can? Are they serious?!) that kids are willing to risk the consequences of drugs (which many find a lot more fun at festivals anyway). FAIL

    • EM says:

      04:36pm | 13/07/11

      Yeah but the pills these days are fu*king shite so they’re not worth taking.

      Now if the gov legalised them and taxed them…

    • redvixen says:

      01:51pm | 13/07/11

      So, even if the writer is wrong and the figure is 15 billion dollars.  The population of Australia at June 2005 (the 15 billion dollar figure is for the 04/05 year) was 20,328,600 give or take a few people.  So for each Australian the cost was $737.88.  I’m absolutely certain that I got $737.88 enjoyment out of my alcohol consumption that year.

    • Hangover Black says:

      01:55pm | 13/07/11

      To go surfing in Yallingup, most folks head down, not up.  Have a look at a map.

    • Anti-Wowser says:

      02:12pm | 13/07/11

      A few years back I was unhappy in my job. I wanted to move on, but at the same time, I wasn’t desperate too, and didn’t want to just take the first offer. In an effort to motivate me to take the next step in my career, I went and bought a $400 bottle of Hennesy Paradis Cognac.

      The bottle stood on a shelf in my house, pride of place, unopened. Every night I came home, looked at the bottle, and recognised it as the symbol of aspiration and motivation that I had intended it to be. When I was in job interviews, and negotiations, this is what I thought of when I needed to make the decision - is the employer/job “Paradis worthy”. Previously I had been naive and accepted the first position that seemed marginally better than where I was. But the “Paradis” litmus test prevented me from doing this.

      It took 2 months of looking, but eventually I found the perfect fit for me - 3 times my previous income (which wasn’t inconsiderable to beging with), responsibility, and strongly targeting my skillset (as you’d expect with such a bit bump). Not happy with just a “near fit”, I made that extra effort, and my career has never looked back.

      One wonders whether coming home and seeing a rectal cancer on the front of that immaculate crystal bottle would have given it the same power to influence my confidence.

      Like cigarettes, some people cannot look past the sickly sweet pre-mixers and VB’s. Not everyone smokes/drinks because they are worthless addicts. It is wrong to compare the person who enjoys a glass of wine, a fine belgian ale, a 21 year old single malt scotch whiskey or a hand rolled cuban cigar to the person picking up cigarette butts for the stray strands of tobacco left, the guy with the brown paper bag leering at people in the park, or the barfly fumbling for his keys whilst slurring “I’m fine to drive, never had an accident in 25 years”.

    • Luce says:

      02:23pm | 13/07/11

      Best comment I’ve read so far.

      And an interesting tactic which I might adopt in some form when I decide to leave my current work place.

      Alcohol is a great thing when you a) drink quality wine/beer/spirits, b) drink enough to be happy without being excessive, and c) have quality people to bond with over said quality drinks. Why should that be punishable behaviour?!

    • If you Drink, Don't Drive Please says:

      02:14pm | 13/07/11

      My drunken neighbour has just whacked the drs and nurses over the head with his walking stick and walked out - heaven help anyone else he meets before the police find him.

    • Shenanigans says:

      02:20pm | 13/07/11

      nothing is going to stop anyone my age from drinking/smoking/using drugs. We just find other, cheaper ways of getting our desired kicks.

      This nanny state bullshit can fuck fair off.

    • nossy says:

      02:47pm | 13/07/11

      @Shenanigans - ever heard of the Police Shenanigans? My goodness you are a nutter!  hahahahahhha You no doubt will sometime in the future enjoy a nice prison cell with your “new buddies” with that attitude! Yesterday you were calling for riots in the streets!

    • Socrates of The Hills (NSW) says:

      02:36pm | 13/07/11

      The figures for cost of smoking include the cost of not claiming the pension till 80, should you die at 60 - I bullshit you not !!!!!!!! These bullshit economists call it “opportunity costs”. Friggen hell, dying from smoking saves this commie government a fortune. They should be handing out fags for free to reduce the deficit !!!!!!!!

    • Luke says:

      11:31am | 14/07/11

      If they had any brains they legalize the good stuff.

    • stephen says:

      02:58pm | 13/07/11

      Put back real malt back in milk-shakes, bring back real chocolate flavourings, and then maybe we’ll have something else to do with our bladders ; until then, forget it.
      And if that doesn’t work,( and it won’t for the under 54’s, I suspect) then construct skate-parks, ice and grass, grog-free venues for top bands and dance-clubs and rid sporting-clubs of alcohol licences.
      The pub and the backyard should be the only places where grog should be consumed.

    • Big Jay says:

      03:09pm | 13/07/11

      Hmmm…Why hasn’t anyone pointed out that there have been studies which seem to prove a link between oral sex and throat and mouth cancers (for both genders, I’m not going to priovide a link)?...how long before this becomes the target of these wowsers…

      On a more serious note, this argument that abuse of substance X increase societies health costs, lost worker productivity (absenteeism), etc therefore substance X should be taxed to buggery or banned is beginning to trouble me quite a lot. As Brando above pointed out, once they win one they’ll move to the next. I dont smoke, drink very little, but I dont care if people do and I don’t care about paying their health bills through the tax system because I play a contact sport and when I’ve needed stitches, or even an arthroscope the taxpayer picks up the bill…how long before contact sport comes up for such attention?

    • Dan says:

      03:45pm | 13/07/11

      There are some ironies/contradictions in this whole wowserism thing as the world collapses.

      If we accept that the world is completely destroyed (according to the Greens) and we are the most evil, over-populated species on the planet (again according to the Greens) then shouldn’t we be allowed to cut our lives short??? Or do we all need to be here for armageddon? Are wowsers just lonely (you know they would be) or is their wankerism unrelated to their loneliness?

    • EM says:

      04:43pm | 13/07/11

      My girl shaggs like a coked-up pornstar when she’s drunk; the dirty little minx.  If the government takes that away from me I’m going to go all Rambo on their arse!

    • 70 Liberal Party Punch Trolls says:

      05:09pm | 13/07/11

      Your comment:Have you ever tasted alcohol? It tastes like floor polish.
      How could anyone ever drink that stuff seriously is beyond me .Its terrible tasting poison. Even piss tastes better than alcohol.
      Anyone who drinks alcohol deserves to be sick.What else could you get from alcohol but sickness and early death by about 10 to 15 years ??
      All alcohol bottles should be labelled exactly like cigarettes and marijuana.
      All alcohol drinkers should be committed to the mental hospital .Only nuts would drink that poison!

    • LC says:

      09:10pm | 13/07/11

      “Even piss tastes better than alcohol.”
      And you would know this how? <raises eyebrow> wink

      “All alcohol drinkers should be committed to the mental hospital .Only nuts would drink that poison! “
      By that logic, anyone who has:
      - Smoked a ciggarette
      - Driven a car
      - Driven a motorcycle
      - Driven a truck/bus
      - Flown an aircraft
      - Sailed a boat or ship
      - Been a passenger on any of the aforementioned vehicles.
      - Had sex
      - Swam in a pool
      - Swam at the beach
      - Had a shower
      - Used a toilet
      - Cooked something
      - Ate food
      - Gone outside
      Should be institutionalized as well.
      Either that, or you can just accept everyone is going die at some point, and that risks are a part of life, and everyone takes them.

      Finally, again you fail to understand what “troll” actually means in an online context.

    • Sonny says:

      12:35am | 14/07/11

      Eating Beef/Steak dinner leads to Bowel Cancer, and that is a fact.
      No Fudging there, going to have warning labels on cows now? What happens with the export cows? Are they exempt

    • cherry says:

      12:48am | 14/07/11

      While they are at it they should also start labelling pharmaceutical drugs with these warnings too. Of course they won’t, the whole health system profits pharmaceuticals that are just as damaging as alcohol and cigarettes.
      Anyone here suffer insomnia? Doctor prescribe you an antipsychotic medicine? The label of that should have atrophied grey matter, a shrunken brain and permanent psychosis. THIS ISN’T ABOUT HEALTH CARE AT ALL, IT’S ALL ABOUT MONEY wink

    • GWS says:

      01:53pm | 14/07/11

      Its fine to argue a point about methodology, but all it seems to be you’re doing is one-up on some academic rivals. In the meantime you’re offering no insight to the real problem. You don’t find 3.8 billion dollars excessive? Even if it does rake in 4.1 billion, that means more than 90% of the revenue goes back into addressing the problems it causes. That seems to me a far more damning statistic! NINETY PERCENT of the revenue it raises goes back into fixing the problems it causes! As a revenue stream it is massively ineffective. That means the social problems, of which the economic statistics are a reflection, are NOT being addressed adequately. It would be better only to earn 2 billion dollars at a cost of, say, 1.5 billion, at least as a percentage that indicates an improvement in the associated and underlying social problems.

    • SMS says:

      12:24pm | 15/07/11

      Don’t confuse theoretical social costs with real money.  In the same year (04/05) all-government expenditure (real dollars) on alcohol problems was $2.6 billion in Australia.  So, of the $4.1 billion collected, roughly 60% went directly back into ‘fixing the problem it causes’.  The rest just goes into government coffers along with all the other taxes.

    • BanjoLawson says:

      05:42pm | 17/07/11

      An economist, paid by the alcohol lobby, who has no understanding or experience in the field of public health.

      Your freedom to consume whatever recreational drug you choose, including alcohol, ends when your actions start harming others.

    • Stew says:

      09:44am | 17/10/11

      I can already tell that’s gonna be super hlefpul.

 

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