Does this mean we can all pack up and go home?

Beagle says:

01:31pm | 19/07/10

Do you mean she didn’t actually manage all the workers on every site every day? Bad Julia.

Ben81 says:

02:18pm | 19/07/10

Who’s talking about managing workers on a site, Beagle? 
I guess criticising the ridiculous ripoffs in the BER scheme is off limits because little Timmy won’t get a proper education if his school didn’t immediately purchase a $600,000 transportable building or million dollar outdoor shade area.
Maybe schools that are just about to shut down but recieved funding anyway can get some value for money out of the taxpayers cash they put in some builders pocket before they close, and there’s no problem here, move along etc

Beagle says:

02:42pm | 19/07/10

Sorry Ben81 - Where are these ripoffs documented so I can have a look?  Please point me to a website that is not a liberal party website,

Tails says:

02:50pm | 19/07/10

Don’t worry. There’s a report coming out soon Beagle. Before the election. Apparently. (giggle)

Ben81 says:

03:02pm | 19/07/10

I’d point you to the only report so far into the BER scheme Beagle, but unfortunately it deliberately avoids investigating the question of value for money for some strange reason and even says in the report that those concerns are outside of its scope, gee i wonder why.
Until that actually happens, here’s just a couple things to get you started.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/politics/m-shadecloth-forces-first-ber-rip-off-admission/story-e6frgczf-1225845583633

http://www.smh.com.au/national/education/teachers-fear-bullying-if-they-tell-of-school-building-rorts-20100320-qn7h.html

DC says:

03:33pm | 19/07/10

Tony Abbott can’t even manage his own household budget - how do you think he could run a country?

He had to remortgage his house because he couldn’t live within his means.

Beagle says:

03:40pm | 19/07/10

@ Ben81 -
The first example is from The News Ltd. stable and as such needs to be taken with a good grain of salt. In fact, it talks about one incident that was stopped before it went ahead.  Sounds like a good catch if it never went ahead.
The second says there are inquiries going on.  - we already knew that. It then lists something labeled Report Card and attempts to make this some sort of definitive list by an unknown compiler of lists (probably a liberal staffer)

To get to the broader facts about the success or failure of the schools building program, you would need to conduct an in-depth all-of-government investigation.
The Auditor-General has done that. The Australian National Audit Officer’s in-depth investigation into the BER stimulus program took several months and resulted in a 202 page report you can find it here.
http://www.anao.gov.au/uploads/documents/2009-10_Audit_Report_33.pd

This report emphatically cleared Julia Gillard and her department.

Ben81 says:

12:46am | 20/07/10

Beagle, are you kidding me?  That’s the exact report I already mentioned, and here is the important part - It conveniently does not investigate value for money which is the one main problem with the program and what I’m talking about here, and even says in that report that the issue is outside its scope and wasn’t investigated!

I could throw articles at you all day and I guess you’d just keep trying to use an old lazy copout telling me they’re all wrong and full of lies so why bother, there’s plenty of them out there if you bother to look, just try reading what I said before replying next time.

Alex White says:

12:24pm | 19/07/10

Preferences work in the Senate, where party preferences flow automatically if you vote above the line. To direct your preferences personally, you need to vote below the line and number every box.

In the lower house, most people follow their party’s how to vote card, but for lower house voting, you are free to preference how you want.

Gary Cox says:

12:52pm | 19/07/10

If a voter only numbers one party in the house of reps, their vote is informal. The preference deal refers to how to vote cards only which voters tend to follow when how to vote cards are handed out that say ‘how to vote Labor/Liberal’‘, however voters are in fact free to direct their preferences where they want after putting number 1 next to their first preference

Rob r Charteris says:

02:39pm | 19/07/10

Adam says:12:15pm; It is simple Greens are more Labor than they would ever want to be liberal…. hence Green preferences generally slant towards the ALP

Smack says:

02:21pm | 19/07/10

As opposed to wheeling out the trusty old boat people Peter?

Reg says:

02:23pm | 19/07/10

As if a new scare campaign was needed Peter? The mad monk himself has been waving it around like a sword of Damacles ever since he started haunting the vestry of his party.  Bulldogs? Never heard of them, are they some secret Liberal lodge?

Ben81 says:

02:44pm | 19/07/10

Smack, was it Tony Abbott who “wheeled out” people smuggling after 2007 when the issue was pretty much gone and Rudd made it a problem again?
He’s not going to be gutless and sit back and watch all the work being undone and neither is Julia Gillard it seems, who has all but admitted she was plain wrong in all those years she spent demonising the Liberals for offshore processing.

Smack says:

03:14pm | 19/07/10

My apologies Ben81, I was merely inferring that it is a bit rich for an LNP supporter to be lambasting, well, anyone - for rolling out a scare campaign.

Particularly on such a non-issue as boat people. That this has become a key issue for this Australian federal election is indicative of the depths that Australian politics have reached.

You’re right though - Tony needs to get in and stop the armada of potential terrorists from coming on to our shores. I can barely cross the street for bumping into a veritable horde of Afghans today.

DC says:

03:45pm | 19/07/10

@Peter Coulson:  The problem is Peter, that Tony Abbott and the Liberals have been stating for the past 9 months that work place reform is high on their agenda - specifically, they want to reintroduce individual work place agreements and remove unfair dismissal laws for small business.

Unless you are brain dead or been living under a rock for the past five or so years, you would know that these are two key components of Work Choices.

Tony Abbott has stated on a number of occasions that these reforms are part of their policy that they will take to the Federal Election.

If you don’t believe me, take a look at Tony Abbotts appearance on April 5th, 2010 on Q&A.

Two quotes:  “...the policies that we take to the next election will provide for individual agreements” and “...keep the unfair dismissal monkey off the back of very small business.”

Also, Bruce Billson, the Opposition Small Business spokesman stated:  “Tony Abbott has made it clear, and it’s my firm view, providing improved unfair dismissal relief for small business needs to be a part of the policy that we seek to get the approval of the Australian people.”

It’s not hard to imagine that Work Choices Ver 2.0 will make an appearance - unless Tony Abbott has been lying to small business for the past 9 or so months.

Or maybe he’s lying to us all right now.

DC says:

03:52pm | 19/07/10

@Ben81:  Asylum Seeker numbers have been increasing throughout the world, not just Australia.

In particular, over the past few years, you’ve had a worsening situation in Afghanistan that has seen a resurgence in Taliban numbers, and in Sri Lanka, the Tamil population was rounded up by the Sri Lankan Government and forced into camps, where for a long time, they refused to allow International observers into.

Tony Abbott himself has admitted that Australia can’t turn the boats around:  “Of course you can’t turn every boat back but you need to be able to turn those boats back where it is safe, where it is possible.”

He went on to say:  “I’m not saying that it will always be possible and we would have to be guided by the advice of the naval personnel on the spot. The point to make is that where it is possible, it would be done with great care and concern for people’s safety because the one thing that I would never question is the competence and professionalism of the Royal Australian Navy.”

As per usual, some Right Wing nut job will accuse me of making this up.

“Tony Abbott would never say that”.

Riiiiight.

Here’s my source - read it and weep.

http://www.liberal.org.au/Latest-News/2010/07/12/Tony-Abbott-Doorstop.aspx

I don’t vote based on party alliances (unlike you), I vote based on who I trust to do the best job.

And that isn’t Tony Abbott.

Jane says:

04:46pm | 19/07/10

Hey Smack - Gillard actually wheeled out the ‘boat people’ issue….in a lame attempt to neutralise the Coalition’s consistent and long term (popular) stance. Falling over herself to backflip a full 180o from her own draft.

Have to laugh at lazy Labor trotting out the trusty ‘Workchoices’ scare campaign yet again….just rub out the ‘07 and overwrite with a ‘10. I guess they all wet themselves over how well it conned everyone last time..that they consider it some holy grail. Pity they and the Unions have already invested all that money and effort into it this time again that they didn’t figure on Abbott killing it off as an angle. ....bummer

It’s like the dead parrot sketch…Labor are so desperate to use the Workchoices scare again…....and the rotten Libs won’t give it to them….and outsmarted them.
So dirty they are that the ‘tweaking’ available within the framework set by Labor’s own ‘Fairwork’ legislation (Law) is now being pretended to be some sort of faux reincarnation!!
Hahhahaha
er, it’s NOT.

It’s dead boys and girls…..dry your eyes…change your undies..rip up the pre made banners…can the millions of $ ads made in salivated readiness already…..and make a decent effort to justify the last 3 years ...or you could just use the con to MOOVE FORWARD ...yeah, that’ll work!!!
LOL

DC says:

06:54pm | 19/07/10

@Jane:  “...they didn’t figure on Abbott killing it off as an angle.”

Wow - you really think Abbott managed to kill Work Choices off?  Maybe in your world, but in the real world, Abbott copped an absolute flogging for it today.

And the reality is that there are now more questions about Abbott reintroducing Work Choices then there were last Friday.

Funny how trying to shut down any focus on it has backfired right in Abbotts smug skeleton like face (that’ll probably upset all those righties who continually bash Gillards look).

But seriously, why did Abbott think that he could convince Australians that there would be no changes to work place laws when he’s been shouting for the past 9 months how he’s going to bring back two main components of Work Choices - individual work place agreements and the removal of unfair dismissal laws?

Jane says:

08:20pm | 19/07/10

[too many words in caps in this comment - mods]

acotrel says:

10:42pm | 19/07/10

Tony Abbott has stated categorically that Workchoices is dead   and cremated.  A minute later he put’s another slant on it, and soon after, another.  He’s obviously telling lies, AGAIN!  He’ll probably simply call his next big I R idea ‘Loveworker legislation’?

Ben81 says:

12:55am | 20/07/10

DC, “Asylum Seeker numbers have been increasing throughout the world, not just Australia.” etc etc…

There is nothing that happened in the world that has coincidentally accounted for the unique massive spike in boat arrivals in Australia after Kevin Rudd’s meddling.  Don’t tell me everyone in the world was holding hands and singing happy songs in the last few years the Coalition was in power which explains the curious lack of boats.

It’s there plain as day, how about you consider that just maybe changing laws and attitudes directly related to an issue may have an effect on it.  That basic logic doesn’t cease to apply when it relates to something that doesn’t fit your political views.  And if you’re truly so concerned about the Tamils, condemn Labor who actually singled them out for delayed processing!

Jason CR says:

02:52pm | 19/07/10

Nah it means only thing.  Labor are more than happy to jump into bed with the imbicile greens to win at all costs.
Gillard in charge, Brown running the senate - god help us.

DC says:

04:43pm | 19/07/10

Ha ha ha ha - too funny.

I look forward to seeing a traveling Shrek troupe.

I’m not so sure about Malcolm Turnbull though.

Thankfully, he’s back for one reason and one reason only - to sharpen the knife and strike at Abbott after Abbott is defeated.

Good luck to him - Tony Abbott has it coming to him.

But to those Liberal supporters who will no doubt cry over the loss of Abbott, only to awaken with a brand new leader - don’t worry, Gillard will get hers too.

I’m guessing sometime in her second FULL term.

Hopefully by then, the Liberals will have someone worth voting for.

Phil says:

04:53pm | 19/07/10

Two sets of comunists in charge if that happens.

The real issue is that Gillard is worse at policy than Rudd. Love or hate him, he at least stood for something whilst it lasted.

Our debt will get out of control with these two at the helm.

Rob r Charteris says:

02:48pm | 19/07/10

Geee you liberals even confuse us ALP supporters…. first it was factional warloads, then you have Abbott running around saying Rudd was executed but in the same breath say he himself took him down, Now it’s Julia stabbing Rudd in the back. Poor Kev probably doesn’t how he died.

luke09 says:

05:54pm | 19/07/10

One thing to take into consideration is, voters who want to elect Julia Gillard as PM probably don’t realise that she could be replaced by party factions, like Hawke for Keating and Rudd for Gillard. If labor win the election it will be anyones guess(even the labor party’s) who will be PM in two years time, maybe Gillard or maybe not.

Rob r Charteris says:

02:43pm | 19/07/10

Evan Findlay says:01:21pm; Phoney Tony certainly showed his true colours today, which is great it’s why he is so unpopular. I’m not sure though how you cremate something after you burry it. What Abbott forget to say between burry and cremate is….. dig it back up have Abetz tweak it then cremate it.

Davo says:

02:43pm | 19/07/10

Evan it takes a special kinda guy to hear “I won’t guarantee not to change IR laws after the 2013 election” as “I will bring back work choices after 2013”

At least with Abbott’s committment to better mental health funding, you will be well looked after if the Coalition wins!

On a serious note, if your position is that the current legislation is perfect and you don’t want it to ever be changed, why don’t you say that? What you are asking Abbott to do is to say “I believe in inertia and an absence of reform”. Where would we be now without the reforming zeal of Hawke, Keating and Howard?

Samuel says:

03:38pm | 19/07/10

Davo has pretty much nailed the response to this one.  I will add that it makes no difference if they do bring Workchoices back for the next election because it will go to the people and they can vote him out if they don’t like it.  The ALP would do well to remember that this is the 2010 election, not the 2007 or 2013 elections.

DC says:

04:20pm | 19/07/10

@Samuel:  That is if it isn’t introduced if Abbott wins the next election.

The main problem for the Liberal Party is that they (and Abbott) have been telling small business that they will go to an election with a policy on work place reform.

Either Abbott and the Liberals have been lying to small business, or he is lying to the Australian electorate right now.

If the best predictor of future behaviour is past behaviour, then we already know where we stand.

Tony Abbott will implement Work Choices Ver 2.0 if he wins the election for three main reasons:

1.  The Liberals have been telling small business that they will implement it

2.  When asked about it, Abbott keeps changing his responses

3.  We all know Abbotts lips are moving, he’s lying

Christian Real says:

05:57pm | 19/07/10

Rob r charteris
I guess that Tony Abbott either forgets what he has previously said, or else it is just one big lie that he is attempting to hoodwink the Australian people with.
Perhaps Tony Abbott should visit a funeral palour, so that they can explain to him that being “buried’ and being ‘Cremated’ are two different things.
Or it could be like Tony Abbott said during his interview with Kerry O’Brien, on the 7.30 Report, when he said; “Don’t believe everything I say.”

Evan Findlay says:

06:02pm | 19/07/10

DC and Davo
The other point is that Workchoices is to Abbott what the ETS was to Rudd. Mr Abbott was, and still is, a keen supporter of Workchoices and has stated on many occasions that Howard’s watering down of the policy before the 2007 election cost the coalition votes.
Now before this election he states that he has dumped it, he feels the policy is not popular so he wont bother sticking to his principles, given a choice between the high road and the low, he’ll take the low road and go for the popular vote. Something he truly believed in, a policy he so vehemently endorsed and now he drops it because there is not enough votes in it. What a hypocrite. They don’t stand up for small business and they want to tax big business. And he wonders why his preferred prime minister figures sit thirty points behind Julia’s.
And Davo, if people do vote for Abbott then it will clearly demonstrate that not only would the 1.5 billion dollars be welcomed for mental health but it would also prove that more needs to be spent!

BobM says:

02:24pm | 19/07/10

Exactly, Talon, every online poll has the Coalition way ahead. You have to remember that Kevin Rudd gave the media outlets a $250 million bribe ‘to save them from the effects of the GFC’.  Most people just see the headlines of the newspapers and believe what they see.

Macca says:

03:22pm | 19/07/10

@BobM & Talon, I think the reason for this is becuase the average Blue-Collar Unionised Employee doesn’t sit at a computer contributing to online sites. of this group that does not contribute to this kind of Forum, I would suggest they overwhelmingly vote for Labor. The skew in the online forums is simply a representation of their audiences, nothing more

Beagle says:

04:12pm | 19/07/10

on-line polls don’t vote.

besides that, you can vote as many times as you like on-line.

Macca says:

04:58pm | 19/07/10

@Beagle, many online polls capture your IP address to prevent this from happening. You can’t vote twice on many sites

Beagle says:

05:06pm | 19/07/10

@vMacca,
A Luddite you must be, even a 12 year old knows how to get a new IP address whenever they want one.  And they couldn’t possible know how to clear their cookies now could they?

DC says:

05:37pm | 19/07/10

@Macca:  “many online polls capture your IP address to prevent this from happening. You can’t vote twice on many sites”

Actually, most websites use cookies to prevent someone from voting twice.

If they used IP Addresses, anyone behind proxies could be denied the ability to vote.

Christian Real says:

08:00pm | 19/07/10

Beagle
I agree with you that the online polls are not a reliable guide to go by, because you can go into vote numerous times, and it is probably the same Liberal radical supporters pumping up the vote for Abbott by voting over and over again.

BobM says:

02:31pm | 19/07/10

Labor are experts at the ‘me too’ policy announcements - they hope to suck in the gullible Labor supporters who were less than impressed with their treatment of Kevin Rudd, and who also are worried by the flood of asylum seeker boats. As soon as the election is over, it will be (incompetent) business as usual and the boats will still keep coming. Notice how there haven’t been any announcements of boat arrivals in the last few days….

Your name:NatLon says:

02:18pm | 19/07/10

The net filter is too complex of an issue for the average punter, so it will be ignored in favor of ‘black & white’ issues.

I am confident that the Libs would not put it forward. There are still many members of the Coalition who see net censorship as an issue which goes the heart of the Liberal party’s founding principles.

The Greens and the Nationals are on the books as being opposed…strange bed fellows, I know.

BobM says:

02:34pm | 19/07/10

Ben81, there is info on the Coalitions policy on the net filter on the Liberal Party website.

Ben81 says:

02:38pm | 19/07/10

Here’s some black and white for you NatLon, if Labor gets in we’ll end up with a compulsory ISP level net filter and if the Coalition gets in we won’t.

They don’t have to base their entire election campaign on it, just let everyone know that it’s still there even though Labor are hiding it away for a month, and put forward a clear position against it to catch some Labor votes that are being lost to the Greens.

Roja says:

02:52pm | 19/07/10

The liberals can’t come out and oppose it as it was the Libs idea in the first place (largely to appease Fielding), surprisingly labor not only didn’t get rid of it when they won power in 2007 but thought it was somehow a good idea.

Why it worries anyone in the slightest is beyond me, your average four year old could get around it in five seconds.

DC says:

04:09pm | 19/07/10

@BobM:  Where is it?  A search for net filter on their site doesn’t reveal anything.

It certainly doesn’t appear on their “action contract” nor on their policies page.

Judging from Tony Abbott’s comments about it in the past, he doesn’t have that much of a problem with it.

In Dec 2009, Abbott stated:  “I think that it makes sense to try to ensure that the homes of Australia aren’t invaded with pornography via the internet,” he said. “On the other hand I don’t want to see wider censorship and I don’t want to see the internet destroyed as a tool for people’s education or as a tool for people’s businesses.”

Joe Hockey is the only Liberal that has openly spoken out about it to my knowledge, and even then, not to a great extent.

According to http://www.arnnet.com.au/article/353477/election_2010_tech_issues_matter/, even Tony Smith, the Shadow Communication Minister, hasn’t condemned any sort of filtering, except in that it may slow Internet traffic down.

Reg says:

08:37am | 20/07/10

The filter is not a problem in my opinion. All you need is a choice to opt in or out. Better things to talk about here but I know how narrowly one can obsess over things like this.

Ben81 says:

01:53pm | 20/07/10

Reg: “The filter is not a problem in my opinion. All you need is a choice to opt in or out.”
Really on the ball aren’t you Reg.  Yes, that sure would be nice wouldn’t it.  Don’t worry, people aren’t going to forget about this issue no matter how much Labor and its supporters try to brush it aside for the election.

Reg says:

02:37pm | 19/07/10

Workchoices showed everyone quite clearly where the Liberal heart is. It will not be easily forgotten and yet our “slow to learn” Liberal aspirant not only fails to shake it off, but openly supports it.

So I must disagree Seano, either the coalition are stupid or they refuse to accept the wish of the people. That makes them anti-democratic and splendid candidates for Hill-Song.

Ben81 says:

02:53pm | 19/07/10

That’s right Reg, the Australian Liberal party doesn’t always share the views of the Union movement and Labor party.  What a shock!

It would be nice if the Liberals could talk openly about these things but unfortunately they can’t because they don’t have the resources to counter another massive Union fear campaign.

BobM says:

03:15pm | 19/07/10

Reg - you old leftie you, Tony Abbott is actually very happy with the current system and therefore has no need or desire to change it. Why?
Because ‘Fair Work Australia’ was a product of Work Choices - people don’t seem to realise that Rudd and Gillard DID NOT SCRAP Workchoices - all they did was rip up bits of it around the edges and tweak it here and there. Tony Abbott is very happy with the fact that most of Workchoices IS current IR legislation. He has no need to change it. The fact is that the current IR laws are just another Labor broken promise representing ‘Workchoices Lite’ and the public are just too dumb to know the difference. Ha Ha

Seano says:

03:34pm | 19/07/10

AWAs are dead, apparently propoganda isn’t.

Macca says:

05:00pm | 19/07/10

@Seano, thats correct, the ACTU still doing Labors dirty work

Reg says:

05:27pm | 19/07/10

BobM, I am certain I have made no deliberate attempt to conceal my political persuasion, quite the contrary, so your generous label I wear with pride.  Though I must admit to having voted for Bob Menzies in my less astute years. But those double-chins and that winning way with the ladies. My mum thought he was nice and that was good enough for me.

I would consider it most astute for the government you criticise, to have seized upon an opportunity to make something better out a piece of despicable legislation such a WorkChoices without putting the business world and the workers through still more chaos.  Yes there are still things to be topped and tailed but that’s how well organised businesses and governments work. eh?   Well most, not the Howard one though. “Cop this you bastards.”

BoBM, as a Liberal supporter, you should understand vividly about broken promises and manipulation of the electorate. Try the subject of “cash for favorable editorial comment.” A mine of Liberal skulduggery.

Reg says:

02:48pm | 19/07/10

Well,... plod ... plod… plod .. that sounds sufficiently depressing to engender a joint wrist-cutting party around a keg of flat beer.

Press says:

03:26pm | 19/07/10

Ah yes. I can see it now. A Senate chocker-block with Steve Fieldings.  Bread and circuses, anyone?

I respect many of J’s posts and the way he often backs up his views. But on this point, we will never agree.

Vote please.  Use your heart if you have one, your head if you can, and your conscience if you must. Leave your hip-pocket out of it. And please, please, please: chose a party that has some hope of unity, in policy and in action.

Roja says:

04:17pm | 19/07/10

Actually John, I completely agree with you - particularly when it comes to the Senate. 

It it scares you make sure you fill out the preferences lest the major parties do it for you - in 2004 labor were scared of the Greens holding the balance of power, so they sentenced Australia to six years of Steven Fielding and Family First on the national stage holding the balance of power. 

If anything we need the (original) Democrats back, we need more like Xenephon (SA love him, with good reason) and in SA we now even have Dignity for Disabled in our upper house.  I believe the Senate should be filled with a large variety of interests to represent the many diverse interests of the Australian people.  Under current rules when we change government, the Senate remains hostile for it’s first term due to the six year terms and labor / liberal typically holding the balance.  What we don’t want is for them to have immediate carte blanche to implement what they like (eg a go it alone in the world carbon tax) but we still need to enable them to negotiate meaningful changes in their first term.

Other countries have more than just a two party political system - why can’t we?

Reg says:

02:59pm | 19/07/10

Not wishing to divert the discussion Evan, but that’s how the Germans finished up with Big H. The banking lobby preferred the order of the Stormtroopers over the chaos of the communist alternative. Only problem was that when he got in power to be their puppet, he changed the law.

We should stop to consider who Mr Abbott is emulating.

Seano says:

03:00pm | 19/07/10

I agree Evan. Very silly of the Libs really, having blown a golden chance as Rudd self destructed they’ll be kicking themselves in 5 weeks along with Abbott.

Macca says:

03:39pm | 19/07/10

@Evan & Seano, pleasing to see that the left continues to hate as much as ever. 4 weeks ago you were both defending Rudd’s “legacy”. Now you pass him off as if he was a complete failure and fail to acknowledge that Abbott had anything to do with his demised.

Both these two presumptions are disgracefully inaccurate, but I suppose it wouldn’t be the first time the Left tried to change history.

SkepDad says:

03:51pm | 19/07/10

Evan, I always thought that was the approach they took with Nelson and was totally unsurprised when Turnbull, who was a credible and electable leader, was given the reins after a short time.

However, I doubt that was their strategy with Abbott.  You give them too much credit.

Seano says:

04:10pm | 19/07/10

@Macca -not surprising to see that the conservatives are still dismissing genuine concerns about Tony Abbott and what he stands for as “hate”. Continued failure to address these genuine concerns are another reason that Abbott is unelectable.

Whilst I know conservatives love to make up our arguments and then respond to them (they must think it’s clever) at no stage have I declared Rudd a “complete failure”. Yes Rudd had failings and it was those failings that caused the party to move to replace him but that’s politics. Rudd had stopped using his cabinent was running a one man show, and it is MY opinion (ie. the one I’ve come up with of my own accord and not one you’ve created for me) that Rudd had burnt himself out and was no longer communicating effectively with anyone and therefore had to be replaced.

Abbott’s tactic of keeping quite for fear of saying something stupid whist Rudd self destructed was pretty smart for Tony and exactly the reason he looked panicked on the day that Gillard rolled Rudd.

Now he has to come up with some sensible and costed ideas, engage with the community, mend fences and not stick his foot in it…it’s not going too well so far.

DC says:

04:34pm | 19/07/10

@Macca:  Wow - what a blindingly hypocritical comment to make.

The left aren’t the only ones who hate - there are plenty of examples of right wingers who HATE on this very site.

Clearly, you are one of those.

I have to say, I always laugh when I see right wingers hurling abuse at the lefties, and then having a cry when the lefties give them some back.

I can only conclude that the right wingers are a bunch of spoiled brats who want everything handed to them on a silver platter, and feel that anyone who is beneath them has no right to an opinion (no matter if it’s wrong or right).

Macca says:

04:54pm | 19/07/10

@Seano, fair points, I still maintain you crucified a perfectly decent PM for an election Labor were going to win anyway. Abbott deserves some credit for getting the Coalition so close to winning an election, but despite all his success in the past 6 months (if we simply look at the polls) Labor always had the 2nd term in the bag, they will just have a larger majority now

I also think its a bit rich to ask for costed ideas when Swan’s mini-budget response to the RSPT / MRRT had a $12bn difference over a mere 2 months.

Its a fair criticsm that Abbott has failed to engage with the electorate. he is far from flattering on TV. He’s got some work to do

@DC, join the debate rather than attack the man

DC says:

05:31pm | 19/07/10

@Macca:  I wasn’t attacking any man - I was attacking a comment that YOU directed at people that you perceive to be lefties and I thought it was quite hypocritical coming from someone who clearly hates the left as much as you do.

At least be a man and admit that you’re a hater.

Jason CR says:

06:04pm | 19/07/10

Ahhhhhh so we’re talking about stability within parties, Evan.

1. Rudd gets knifed.  (less than 4 weeks ago)

2.Faulkner and Tanner both step down.  Why would you be laughed at in opposition for 10 years, then get your big break in government and walk away after 2 years??  Couldn’t handle the heat?  I don’t think so.

3. Rudd has been promised a portfolio despite being accused by factions of leaking details of a meeting to Oakes.  Should be rivetting when he lands on Gillard’s team.

4. Evans comes out and admits that asylum seekers are killing his government and they have failed on the subject.

5. Jump straight into bed with that lunatic Bob Brown despite not having a climate change policy.  Great for both parties - putrid for Australia.

6. Swan doesn’t know who to support or what he stands for.  (To that little baby that cried when you saw him on TV - he has the same affect on adults, it’s ok.)

7. Union numbskulls lining up by the dozen to be rewarded for helping ‘her heinous’  become leader.

Normally we aren’t even having this conversation with a first term government.  But then again we’ve never anything like this since Whitlam terrorised us.  He’s the big winner - he’s now become the 3rd worst PM ever. 

Forget “Moving Forward”.  How about “Workchoices - it didn’t kill 4 or burn down 150” ??

Evan Findlay says:

06:19pm | 19/07/10

Macca,
No one, including those in the Liberal party, knew that Mr Rudd would fall so heavily from grace. Having said that I still believe he would have done Abbott in the election. I have never passed him off as a failure. I think your mixing your words with mine.
And just because you say my presumptions are inaccurate, does not make them so. You have evidence to the contrary?

Evan Findlay says:

07:24pm | 19/07/10

Jason CR,
Just to correct your lack of knowledge in respect to Australian political history. You state that “normally we would not be having these conversations about a first term government.” You could not be any further from the truth. Hawke and Keating struggled at their first term re-elections and Howard was dead and buried two weeks out from his re-election in 1998.
Instead of rolling out your politically biased drivel, why do you not base your arguments on facts and stop trying to rewrite history! Maybe then we could take you seriously.

Roja says:

07:46pm | 19/07/10

@Macca - “I also think its a bit rich to ask for costed ideas when Swan’s mini-budget response to the RSPT / MRRT had a $12bn difference over a mere 2 months. “

Ah, you see that’s exactly why he should have costed policies out there.  He’s keen to attack the current governments figures as wrong, however when rational people go looking for the figures supplied by the liberals and they find none - well it smacks of hypocrisy.

Note also that it was the mining companies, not the liberal party, that found the holes in the mining tax figures.  Why is that?  If they are the ‘economic masters’ they claim they should be right on to this shouldn’t they?  I have sincere doubts about Hockey’s ability as shadow treasurer, it really should be Turnbull. 

As for the Andrew Boltism of complaining they are attacking the man not the message, well you must admit your opening message of “pleasing to see that the left continues to hate as much as ever” is not only contextually erroneous and inflamatory, it is itself attacking the man. 

Certainly your quality second post betrays your first - are there two Macca’s?

Jason CR says:

08:11pm | 19/07/10

Evan
You missed points 1-7??
Typical Labor response though.

Seano says:

01:09am | 20/07/10

@Macca I don’t think they “had” to get rid of him but I support the democratic process, outsting Rudd for running a one man band.

I don’t think Abbott advanced the coalition one jot towards catching Rudd at the end of the day he was still way behind Rudd in the preferred PM stakes.

Reg says:

04:10pm | 19/07/10

It never ceases to amaze me how Liberals and their various Chambers of Manufacturing etc, resent the ability of Unions to organise on behalf of their members. Such views are rooted in the pre-Victorian era. 

Surely they can see that Unions are far more representative of the people than are a few scheming back-room industrial heavy-weights with the power of a latent Mafia.

Don’t worry about it Luke, most of us will wake tomorrow but one day we won’t. How’s that for a reliable prediction?

Chris L says:

10:53pm | 19/07/10

I’ll probably vote Liberal Democratic Party myself, or maybe the Secular Party, and I’ll be numbering my preferences to put the two majors last! There are other parties out there and if you look you’re likely to find one you like.

Gary Cox says:

03:20pm | 19/07/10

Hates women? Where did that come from? His mother was one, he’s married to one and is a father of three women so he can’t hate them that much. Its also well documented that he actually likes Julia Gillard as a person. I think you’re scraping the bottom of the barrell dementer. Get some new constructive material

Kelly says:

03:56pm | 19/07/10

All Gillard and her followers can do is talk about Workchoices, and the Rudd/Gillard Government can only propose to fix the mess they have made in the last 3 years and promise not to do it again.

Rob r Charteris says:

04:06pm | 19/07/10

Kelly says:03:56pm; you haven’t heard his morning radio spirtings it was all about Work Choices lol like he cant get enough of it either, Goooooo Tooooooooony!!!!  hehehe….

Jason CR says:

04:35pm | 19/07/10

“hehehe and lololol” - how old are you Rob?

Let’s just wait for the release of one report shortly.  Then again, we only see you when a positive poll is released for Labor.

Rob r Charteris says:

04:51pm | 19/07/10

Jason CR says:04:35pm “Then again, we only see you when a positive poll is released for Labor” you get the award for the biggest understatement of the election campaign, either or you live with your head in the sand. 330 posts in the last 3 months and that’s just the ones that the Punch team have let through hahaha….

Nicole says:

05:14pm | 19/07/10

Err Rob, 330 posts? You count them? Jeez you must be bored. Not to post them, just to count them.

Rob r Charteris says:

06:57pm | 19/07/10

Nicole says:05:14pm; hmmmm don’t know what email program you use sweetie, if you have to count them. Mine tells me how many publications in my Punch folder ; )  Why, is that a lil too sophisticated for you? and I thought you were a modern girl.

Northern Steve says:

09:15pm | 19/07/10

Geez Rob? 330 posts?
I can see why you’re a Labor supporter. You’re either on benefits or an unsackable unionized public servant. Most of us have to work for a living!

Pope Napoleon XIV says:

04:11pm | 19/07/10

I’m pretty sure white smoke will rise out of the top of Labor supporters’ heads if Abbott wins.

Northern Steve says:

09:11pm | 19/07/10

Ha! The most interesting comments on this page so far.
Cheers!

DC says:

05:48pm | 19/07/10

Actually, I don’t think its people buying the Labor tripe - I think it’s more of a case of people not buying the Liberal tripe.

Seriously - it shows a complete lack of understanding from the right about just how much Abbott is despised by anyone with a working brain.

Abbott has told so many lies over his political career that they are starting to catch up with him.

Treat the electorate with contempt, and it will get returned.

I wouldn’t count Tony Abbott out just yet though - if he stands up and admits he’s a fraud and stands down for Hockey or Turnbull to take over, the Liberals might just win.

People don’t necessarily want to vote for Labor - they just don’t want to vote for Tony Abbott and his backward (or back wood) policies.

If the Liberals don’t want to wake up to reality, then they will spend three more years in Opposition with no real policies and no chance of coming back.

Jason CR says:

06:13pm | 19/07/10

DC,

You should walk the election in then with the help of Abbott.  What’s your prediction then?  How many seats?I’m not sure why you even bother worrying about him then.
Also do you know what an oxymoron is?  Just checking as you had ‘Labor” and “working brain’ in the same sentence..

This election is turning fast into an IQ test.  Good luck seano, Rob, DC, Evan and others.

Chris L says:

11:01pm | 19/07/10

I love how Right wingers call everyone else idiots and then say “nobody hates like the left”. Both sides excercise a strong element of hypocrisy but at least the left tend to have better manners.

Seano says:

07:50am | 20/07/10

@Jason CR - “All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”.

Richard says:

07:31pm | 19/07/10

You’re right again Gregg: the stockmarket certainly didn’t like this poll today did it? If Labor are allowed to cause further damage to the ecomony our status as the lucky country will be in serious jeopardy.

Jason CR says:

08:24pm | 19/07/10

nosthow, your political credentials can be seen by one of your previous posts.

nosthow says:
01:08pm | 21/06/10
Kevin Rudd will not only lead Labor to the next election - he will easily win the next election.

Speaking of duffers….

Your scare campaign wins and Labor are re-elected.  Do you then run a government on ‘they’ll bring workchoices back blah blah blah….?

Great scare campaigns, no policies or substance and Gillard PM and Bob Brown running the senate!!!  Sheeez I might sail to East Timor myself!

nosthow says:

08:47pm | 19/07/10

@Jason CR - lovely to see someone from the Liberal Party is keeping tabs on me Jason - give yourself another boiled lolly my lad ! Hard to deny things though Jason when they come from your own Liberal Party huh ? Your Campaign office they said was hopelessly organised - and it shows Jason old bean ! Roll on election day and goodbye Tony Abbott !

Jason CR says:

10:19pm | 19/07/10

Sorry pal, couldn’t help myself!  Did you pay the bet though?
As for the ABC news tonight, everything seems to be reported…On the news the other night it was also reported that Evans said the asylum seekers issue was killing Labor.  It’s also reported that Gillard/Rudd made a deal.
If I wanted ‘reported’ I’d buy New Idea.

As for Tony Abbott, I don’t agree with everything he stands for - far from it.  But I vote for the party, not the leader.  If the polls are right we’ll be getting a ‘4 week old PM’ leading us and Bob Brown deciding the senate.  I’m sure that scares many voters.

nosthow says:

01:10pm | 20/07/10

@Jason CR - geez Jason we are all over each other like a blanket on a bed buddy - an emergency services worker and a 65y0 pensioner doing battle. Draw so far ?

Nigel Catchlove says:

11:05pm | 19/07/10

The NSW Secretariat is not processing new memberships so close to the election - they are focused on support to the electorate. 
Contact details for the campaign office in Eden-Monaro is:
146 Monaro Street
Queanbeyan, NSW 2620
Phone:02 6297 1241
Email:david.gazard@nsw.liberal.org.au

Jeff M says:

09:32am | 20/07/10

The Liberal Party doesn’t want you mate and who can blame them, I don’t want you either!!