This is pop star Miley Cyrus’s little sister Noah at a Halloween party last weekend. It’s not the first time little Noah has been sent out on the red carpet in an outfit that is, ahem, a little old for her.

Noah Cyrus

And not surprisingly it drew a pretty quick knee-jerk response from commentators right around the world. OUTRAGE! But is it really that bad?

The Punch decided to ask the people at the coal face of the battle against the growing sexualistion of children, mothers with young daughters, what an image like this did to their efforts to stop their little girls growing up too fast.

Don’t miss our body image special on The Punch tomorrow morning. You won’t believe your eyes.

The strongest theme from their answers was that as a parent, it was their responsibility to use the word “No”. Almost all said their own daughters would never leave the house dressed like this. And others thought Noah just looked like a little girl playing dress ups.

But many said tween celebrities, such as Noah, who’s sister Miley is a HUGE star in the under 12 set, gives their daughters unrealistic expectations about what’s appropriate.

Others said it was actually hard to find clothes for little girls that weren’t just mini-versions of what a 22-year-old might wear to a nightclub.

I’ll let them speak for themselves. It makes for very interesting reading.

Nadine: Two daughters, 9 and 7

At 5yrs my eldest daughter said to me “Mummy, when can I start to lose weight?” I was perplexed, upon further questioning she admitted that she had seen some ads on TV for the Biggest Loser, I point out that she had never watched an episode, but even from the ad she had picked up the salient points. She said to me “but mummy, if you lose weight you are a winner, I want to be a winner”!

At 6, she asked when can she wear a bra, and on a visit to Target or Kmart found a child sized g string and wanted to have one of those too. I can’t work out the point of g-strings for adults let alone 6yr olds! There are then the persistent questions about make up, bras, skimpy clothes, high boots, heels etc. When I say no, she points to friends, cartoon characters, pop singers and the Miley Cyrus’s of this world as proof as to why she should be allowed to be doing/having those things.

Yes, it is a big deal. No matter how much I protect my girls, I will not wrap them up in cotton wool and they will be exposed to these images. they are children, by definition young and impressionable, ergo, they will be influenced by the pictures themselves and by their peers. And they will want what Noah has, no matter how inappropriate that is.

Fiona: Daughter aged 7

Looks like a girl just playing dress ups in adult clothes and like she’s done her own makeup. The girl actually looks quite self-conscious and uncomfortable in the outfit. I asked my 7 year-old daughter if she thought the girl looked nice or not.  Her answer was a simple “no”, and then she walked away.  It’s no big deal.

Annabelle: Two daughters, 9 and 3

I do find it sad that our children are trying to grow up too quickly and are not encouraged to enjoy their childhood. These pictures just reinforce this attitude and make it difficult as a parent to say no, I don’t want you to wear that type of clothing. I had to explain to my 9 year old that I wouldn’t let her dress like Brittany Spears for last years Halloween Disco party, how ever appropriate!

They are not happy just going as witches and ghosts anymore.  It is also really hard to find clothing for my daughter that isn’t black, short skirted, with glitter or bling all over it and with phases that I wouldn’t be comfortable for a teenager to wear, let alone a 9 year old child.

Jen: Two daughters, 7 and 4

It doesn’t immediately concern me in terms of my two daughters, because they don’t seem to want to dress like this – whether disinterested because of their age or a sense of style, I don’t know. I do worry for young girls who (or whose parents) are so obsessed with fashion and TV in their pre-teens, but possibly more because they’re missing out on the wonderful experiences of childhood than because of any issue with ‘growing up too fast’.

I want for my daughters many experiences and a life of balance. Yes they can watch High School Musical but then they go outside to play catch and climb trees. I also spend time with them discussing how they are smarter, stronger and more interesting than some of the stuff we read and see.

Jayne: Daughter aged 9

The thing that worries me about this picture is not that I can’t deal with it in my own home - because I talk to my daughter about what I believe is appropriate for ‘little girls’, i.e clothing/make-up which is ot derivative of ‘sexy’ clothing for women. But I get bothered by the idea that other parents who may not see what I (and others) see - little girls growing up too soon. Maybe they see Noah and because she’s ‘famous’ think it’s cool. Then, when their own little girls are running around in mini skirts and f*&% me boots (come on we all know that’s what they’re called) then my daughter looks and think, ‘That’s what I want to wear’ - because this is her peer group.

It’s easy to keep the crazy Cyruses at a distance but it’s harder to dissuade my daughter from wanting to be like the girls she might mix with socially.

Georgia: Daughter aged 6

My daughter loves dressing up, wearing make up and silly shoes, which is what this little girl has done. However, most of the dressing up is done at home with friends. Noah Cyrus’s outfit is OK, with the exception of the length of the dress. It is really too short, and for a public outing a little inappropriate, even for Halloween.

My daughter recently went to a disco party, and I pulled out all sorts of silly things for her to wear. She fell in love with a top that made her look like Donna Sommers, in her hey day. I felt it was too grown up because it was so short, and just had a weird feeling that I couldn’t articulate to her or myself. In the end we found a much more fun outfit to wear involving stupid wigs and big earrings and a long dress.

Does this sort of photo make it hard to keep my child from growing up too fast? Absolutely. She is too young right now to be aware of this sort of thing, but I know I will be competing with the world about how to dress my child, and in the end she will find her own style influenced by her peers, magazines and perhaps myself. In the meantime, we will find better, funnier and outrageous but more appropriate things to get her to try on and have a laugh at.

Mandy: Daughter, almost 3

I read a thought provoking book recently: What’s Happening to Our Girls? Too much, Too soon, How our kids are overstimulated, oversold and oversexed.

I’m very concerned about how much information is available to young kids now days, especially through the internet. I’m saddened by the loss of innocence of young girls ... the inability of girls to enjoy their childhood without being self conscious and needing to conform. Related to this is bullying ... another huge issue facing our kids. A sad by-product of oversexualisation is the highly promiscuous nature of many of today’s young and sexual relationships without any notion of intimacy.

I don’t want to be an overprotective parent but I believe it’s important to try to be aware of what may harm my daughter and to keep the lines of communication with my daughter open.

Lara: Daughter aged 2

I can remember my Mum being mortified when, at the age of 9, I came home with Madonna bangles and a feather hair piece in my hair that I’d borrowed from a friend – that said, it was harmless and she drew the line at cone shaped bra’s and black leggings – seriously. I was allowed to play but wasn’t allowed to ‘be’ my idol. It was all relative and though Mum allowed me to have pictures of Madonna on my wall, I was in no uncertain terms allowed to pretend I was her. It was make believe and something that I have followed up with my kids today.

Age appropriate behavior is entirely up to parents so, does it scare me for my daughter in the years ahead? No, because she has a mother who had a mother who knew what she was doing and therefore she won’t go off the rails but God Help the Cyrus kids, I fear that when Mum has lost the plot it’s a sure fire guarantee that at some point in their life, the kid will lose the plot too.

Serena: Daughter, aged 5

My mother always said that young girls should never wear black and it is a rule I follow with Annie. And that also means that it goes without saying that my daughter will not wear clothes that are too tight, too short or too slutty and young Noah’s outfit is all of the above. Oh and one of my staff just alerted me to the fact that F-Me boots probably don’t have a place in a 9 year old’s wardrobe either! Let kids be kids for as long as they can.

Marina: Daughter, nearly 3

It looked cheap and nasty. Definitely portraying the wrong image for a little girl. Does a girl that age really understand the image she is portraying? Rather irresponsible of the parent I think. Then I thought maybe she is going fancy dress for Halloween…  I just think little girls should not wear black, dark eye make up, short skirts with long high healed boots. Just no style really – no matter the age.

Liza: Two daughters, 2 and 4

Does Noah Cyrus look like a hooker? Yes. Does it set a bad example for ‘normal kids’? Yes. But at the end of the day it is up to ‘normal parents’ to say ‘no’ when their own children nag that they too, want to go trick or treating dressed as hookers. I appreciate this is easier said than done, but it is not impossible.

Natalie: Daughter aged 8

I don’t see a problem with it.  What many commentators fail to understand is that many children do not interpret things sexually.  My daughter saw this photo yesterday and her only comment was how cool it looked.  She did not say that Noah looked like a tart or that her skirt was too short or that she looked sexy.  She thought “cool” because of the whole “We Love Vampires” phenomena at the moment.  I highly doubt that my daughter now wants me to run out and by her a pair of “FM’s”!

I think us adults have an awful lot to answer for.  We are turning these pure, innocent minds, into minds that feel they have to label everyone and have everyone fit into a particular category.  The world would be a much better place if children were simply taught that it is OK to be who you are and the old adage of not judging a book by it’s cover.  Little girls don’t see provocative - we do.

I really feel sorry for Noah.  Some of the names I have seen this poor 9 year old called are atrocious and can quite possibly scar this little girl for life - but hey, at least the do-gooders of this world have had their say.

Kay: Daughter aged 5

I don’t care if it is a Halloween party, there is no way I would ever let my daughter out dressed like that. She is 9, not 19 and she looks like she should be walking the streets. I wonder what the toy companies who were obviously sponsors think of it all? My daughter is 5 and I try very hard to buy her age appropriate clothing. I think it is my responsibility as a parent to do this. She is not old enough to be making decisions yet about how the world perceives her. She is a child. Let her be one.

Kirsti: Daughter aged 6

My first reaction is holy crap! And second is that I wouldn’t want my 6yo to see that picture. I consider myself a pretty relaxed and moderate mother - albeit it with a strong feminist background.  Essentially I think there’s a middle ground that most mothers I know walk – we allow Barbies (mainly because Bratz look Barbie look like a choir girl!), glittery bits and bobs, and small amounts of make up for play only – mostly lip gloss.

But I don’t know any mother who would feel comfortable with that photo. I think most would consider Noah an extreme example…although a dangerous one as many, many young girls (my daughter included) adore her older sister. 

Most mothers I know are very uncomfortable with the more common yet insidious representations of the sexualisation of young girls – Bratz dolls, mini bra tops for under 10s, the way women dress and behave in music videos and so on. Those things are banned in our house.

I was also very uncomfortable with the idea of my then 4yo having the bikini she desperately wanted…until I remembered that’s all I wanted when I four, my mother relented and I turned into a perfectly well adjusted feminist with a healthy body image!  So I relented on the bikini.

Bernadette: Daughter aged 10

Yeah, not cool.
The boots for a start. We all know they are referred to as CFM boots (come f… me) so what’s she doing wearing them up her thighs to meet her incredibly short dress. Luckily, at 10, unless they are a Trump, they still cannot go out and purchase their own goods, so it comes down to the parents. BTW, when I was ten, it was all about the Cabbage Patch dolls and Ra-ra skirts.

Rachel: Daughter aged 3

I think it is absolutely frightening that a mother would allow her daughter out the front door looking like this.

Sam: Daughter aged 4

All wrong! There is no way I would let my daughter out looking like that until she was too old for me to stop her.

Renee: Daughters aged 3 and 8 months

Our girls will always want to grow up more quickly than we them to. It would be difficult, dare I say impossible, to reign in this fundamental human response.

Further, I am confident that I will be able to explain to my daughters that even though this child is dressed in such an over-the-top manner it would rarely be appropriate for my daughters to do so, much in the same way I will no doubt have to explain that while the models in magazines get around in bras knickers and stilettos it would probably not be in my daughters best interests to do so.

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51 comments

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    • DG says:

      05:57am | 29/10/09

      I tend to agree that it looks like a little girl playing dress ups.

      Having said that I wouldn’t let a kid out wearing that - those boots are hideous*. The whole outfit is more ghastly than “girly”, and doesn’t hit me as “sexy” at all. Perhaps, if it didn’t have the weird torn, skirty bit I would find it inappropriate, but it’s just not striking me as sexual in any way.

      Maybe it’s the pose - she looks like a little girl (shoulders a little hunched as if uncomfortable with the attention) who went mad with mums make up, chewed on the lipstick, threw on some dark, shapeless, clothes and some boots.

      * I’m missing something if those boots are at all sexy (and from the above they are supposed to be). In my eyes those boots are about as sexy as road kill. Add a few more metalic clasps and buckles and they’d look like something you’d expect to see in Terminator on some mercenary climbing over dismembered robots, with a closeup of the boots stomping on the outstretched claw of the"boss” robot in a dramatic final scene… as the mercenary limps away the claw twitches again and we notice some glowing robotic eyes focusing on the retreating figure.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      07:32am | 29/10/09

      Damn that outfit is ugly. Certainly appropriate for holloween….

    • iansand says:

      07:48am | 29/10/09

      Perfectly dressed for a Halloween party.

    • Mark says:

      07:55am | 29/10/09

      Why are we only asking mothers their opinion? Are men that irrelevant still?

    • AFR says:

      07:56am | 29/10/09

      Hasn’t this issue been done to death?

    • Jolanda says:

      07:58am | 29/10/09

      I wouldn’t let my daughters wear it.  Actually my daughters wouldn’t want to wear it and their brothers wouldn’t let them walk out the door wearing it.  A decent pair of shoes and a pair of tights would have made the outfit so much better.  The make up is also just too much.  Of course it is a fancy dress outfit so allowances have to be made but certainly what this type of outfit does is it creates attention for the child and children love attention so they become wanting more attention and generally their love of ‘outfits’ of this nature grows and with it their innocence is lost as although at first they may not see it as sexual - others will and personally just like women dressing provocative when the go out I think it makes these kids grow up too fast and targets for those with ‘intentions’ and brings the type of attention that little girls do not need and that parents should protect their children from.

      Education - Keeping them Honest
      http://jolandachallita.typepad.com/education/
      Our children deserve better

    • Liz says:

      08:02am | 29/10/09

      God she looks old!! One day she’ll wonder where her childhood life went. What happened to parental responsibility and boundaries? Men are so relevant to parenting and their good involvement and committment are badly needed.

    • Lia says:

      08:20am | 29/10/09

      Why is there so much stress about young girls growing up so fast? There seems to be no concern when young boys want to run around without shirts on and wear tight jeans.

      On this very website there is even a video, advertised alongside this article, about a 9 year old ice hockey player already tipped for the NHL. Surely that is approving and encouraging speeding through his childhood.

      As many of the parents have said in their comments, parenting is an individual game (or partnered) and images like this abound in the public space. Parents can ensure their children, boys and girls, grow up with a healthy awareness of the messages that they send by the way they dress, speak and act and this can be happily combined with healthy self-expression.

      Stop worrying about what is too much, not enough, too sexual, not feminine enough. Stop worrying about your own parenting.

    • Jolanda says:

      08:29am | 29/10/09

      Lia the concern is that young people are becoming sexually active at an earlier and earlier age and their focus is becoming their body and how they look and making themselves attractive to the opposite sex and nowadays even the same sex.  This turns thier focus away from their education onto other things during a time in thier life that they need to be focused on learning and just being kids.  I believe this behaviour causes emotional and psychological problems for children as they are not mature enough physically or emotionally to deal with all the issues that inevitably arise.  Children need to be expected to be children and education needs to be their focus.  Plenty of time for the other stuff when they grow up.

    • G says:

      08:50am | 29/10/09

      There is no evidence that teenagers are engaging in sexual activity younger. 

      In fact if you look at available recorded information from the 1701 to 2001, you will see that people this century are having sex older,  getting married older and having children later.

      A hundred to a few hundred years ago in England the legal age of sex used to be 9 and legal to marry at 12…  other figures indicated that teenagers / children had sex younger 10 - 12, and had their own children younger at 13-16, this age bracket has increased to what you see today with better education and an increase of community standards.

      So the misdirected concern here regarding the moral breakdown of today’s society is factually unfounded and simply plays to the fear of a outraged public regarding the sexualisation of children.

    • Alison says:

      08:56am | 29/10/09

      Jolanda - your sons wouldn’t “let” your daughters out the door wearing these clothes? Because it’s up to your sons to police your daughters’ sexuality? Have you considered the message you’re sending to your children with that attitude?

    • Zeta says:

      09:15am | 29/10/09

      Children aren’t being oversexualised. Adults are projecting their sexual anxieties onto children. It’s not women with daughters who should be outraged. Men are the problem. We get nervous when confronted by images like that because our animal hindbrains haven’t quite caught up with our cultural sensitivities. As for Noah Cyrus, I for one envy the fecklessness of childhood and wish her all the best. While we’re debating her outfit ad nauseum and its impact on social mores, the most her and her friends have written about it was probably ‘ZOMG DRAMAZ @ HALOTWEEN PARTEH!!!!111!one’ on the Blackberries their parents buy them, before they went back to debating the respective virtues of the Jonas Brothers.

      Kids should get get to wear whatever they want. As adults our responsibility should be to make sure they’re not exposed to the most toxic of media imagery (If it were my daughter, I’d be more concerned she’s dressed as a character from Twilight, and make her read Poppy Z. Brite or something. I’d be a bad father), and ensure that they’re safe. Not make them dress like the Amish if they don’t want to.

      It annoys me that the same women who get outraged over Sheik El Hilaly’s comments re ‘uncovered meat’ then question Noah Cyrus’ right to a short skirt and combat boots. It’s your problem if it makes you uncomfortable. Not Noah’s.

    • Clover says:

      09:34am | 29/10/09

      Come on, any kids who did dancing while they were at school wore costumes that were a lot more revealing than that, I remember those silly little leotard costumes. Kids don’t care about it, do they? I never did.

    • Kia says:

      09:37am | 29/10/09

      It’s the adults of society that are throwing the whole “sexulaised” label around.  A young girl wouldn’t look at that and think that her outfit is too sexy - half of them don’t even know what sexy even is!

      If my daughter looked at that and wanted to wear it, I wouldn’t be overly fussed with the idea, but I would be deeply concerned that I was raising her to be a “follower”.  I would much rather she be her own person than have the need to copy what everyone else is doing.  This will be greatly relevant when she hits her teenage years and is faced with the issues of drugs and sex…I’d much prefer she be comfortable enough in her own choices rather than being a sheep.

      If wearing a particular outfit makes females “targets for those with ‘intentions’” as Jolanda put it, then it also raises the issue of instilling in BOYS the correct way of treating girls.  In fact, it should be every parents job to teach our children not to judge others AT ALL based on what they are wearing!  It’s adults that are doing all the judging andwho have the need to put everyone into a labelled little box - the sooner WE can stop that the more accepting of others our children will be.

    • DG says:

      09:44am | 29/10/09

      @Alison - Great point.

      @Jolanda

      You propose that these things direct children’s focus “from their education onto other things during a time in their life that they need to be focused on learning and just being kids”. How about not being so focused on leaning and just focusing on being kids? You want them to be preparing for their adult intellectually, but not socially - or worse still, they acquire knowledge without any appreciation for the world to which that knowledge applies. In my opinion it’s an all or nothing equation - either you want them to spend their time preparing for adulthood, or you want them to be kids. Sure there is some education going on, but it should be a functional education in with consideration for both intellectual and social development.

      @Zeta:

      How did you get “Men are the problem”? You put that statement in the middle of your first paragraph with no apparent lead-in or follow on. I’m not even sure what you meant. I’d love to hear that explanation.

      I’m not even sure what you meant by saying “our animal hindbrains haven’t quite caught up with our cultural sensitivities”. Are you suggesting that the normal male response would be to find that image sexually appealing? If that is your suggestion I would strongly disagree. From the above (a small sample and hardly scientific) it appears that the females see sexual imagery while the males see a nervous little girl dressed up for Halloween.

      Now if you are suggesting that the women fear that men see sexual images and that fear causes the reaction. I can agree with you, but that’s a long way short of saying that men are the problem. That would suggest that the fear of men is the problem, not men themselves.

      Consider this: Advertising tells women that short skirts will get a man’s attention. Women then fear that a child wearing a short skirt will get a man’s attention (failing to appreciate the fact that it is the shape and curve of an adult woman’s figure that grabs the males “animal hindbrain” rather than the figure of a child). Suddenly men are evil because women fear that men are looking at young girls in little skirts.

    • Jolanda says:

      09:46am | 29/10/09

      @ Alison my sons do not police their sisters sexuality but they would not let their sister out dressed like that because my sons love their sisters and they know what is out there and they know that a young girl walking around with what is commonly known as “hooker boots” and a dress that pretty much doesn’t cover the private area would not be in her best interest and could put her at risk of harm.  Of course Dad wouldn’t allow it either.  That might be a foreign concept to some but protecting your family and teaching them right from wrong should be a high priority.  Had she put on a pair of tights and given it was halloween the hooker boots could be ignored but she is pretty much showing what she had for breakfast and sitting down or moving around would only make it worse.

      That so many people are happy for young people to flash all in the name of rights is a concern.

    • Kia says:

      09:47am | 29/10/09

      @Clover - you’re right!  I just received my daughter’s costume for her end of year dance concert and it consists of the tiniest pair of lycra shorts and a halter neck top.  It will more than likely be construed as a bit “sexy” for an 8 year old…but.I’m more concerned that it cost me $60 for so little material!

    • Jolanda says:

      10:10am | 29/10/09

      @DG - it needs to be age appropriate.  Nobody says that young people shouldn’t socialise, go out and have fun as well as studying and being involved in sport but young people need to be encouraged to be friends, and to focus on getting to know each other intellectually and emotionally.  When the relationships go one step further for young kids it is very seldom in their best interest as they are too young.  The physical and sexual focus is not appropriate for children.  Emphasis on the word children.

      Why do so many people only know how to think and function at the extreme? 

      And why do so many people not understand that you cannot control what other people think and do and yes there are men in society who see females in limited clothing and who are out there as ‘wanting it’ so you need to teach your children to consider this as this is the world we live in and to think about how they dress, how they act and what they do.  It is a choice that they need to make and that they have a right to make for their own safety and good - as parents it is our job to inform them of the realities in life so that they make informed choices.

      @Kia my daughters stopped dancing because of the inappropriate outfits and movements that they had to do and makeup that they were expected to wear.  Now before you jump up and down, it was them who refused to wear the clothes and decided to leave as even at a very young age they could see how it was not appropriate and they didn’t feel comfortable dressed in ‘sexy’ outfits wiggling their bodies in what can only be described as a sexy manner to an audience.  They play soccer now and Tennis and even play music in competition and for fun.  The fact that they didn’t want to dress and act in a manner that they felt was inappropriate has not damaged them.  They still wear a bikini a the beach and there skirts are not down to their knees.  There is plenty of area in between.

    • Alison says:

      10:12am | 29/10/09

      @Jolanda - Don’t you see that you’re preaching a blame-the-victim mentality? Are your daughters allowed to run around in their swimming costumes at the beach? What if a man (or a woman) looks at them and experiences a sexual enjoyment? Do you make them cover up? There is a widespread sexual trope of a schoolgirl with piggy-tails and knee socks - do you make your daughters wear sexually neutral clothing at all times?

      And you’re still saying that you have given your sons the power to decide what is appropriate for your daughters to wear. Do your daughters have the same power over your sons?

      When saying that a woman’s choices of clothing or behaviour are putting her at risk of harm, you are saying that she is responsible for the actions of another and that there is no way to avoid those actions except by covering up and behaving modestly. You are saying that it is the responsibility of the males to protect the chastity of the female, and of the female to guard against the violation of other males.

      How about blaming the males (and some women) who look at a nine-year-old, or for that matter at an adult woman in a short skirt, and think “yeah, she’s up for it”. If society focused it’s censure on that thinking, we might start to solve this problem.

      And for the record, my nine-year-old would never go out in that outfit. Mostly because it’s ridiculous and she wouldn’t be interested, but also because I simply would not buy it for her. You’d better believe my children know right from wrong, and they know that if a person assaults another person - verbally, visually or physically - then it is not the victim’s fault.

      Finally - “she is pretty much showing what she had for breakfast”??? Are you happy using that turn of phrase about a nine-year-old?

    • E says:

      10:21am | 29/10/09

      Its natural for children to emulate adult behavior, thats part of how we grow from children into adults. The question is which parts of adult behavior are being emulated? It seems that the ‘land a man, sex for cash and leave your dignity at the door’ behavior of some women is being presented as universal to children and as desireable by marketing.
      I agree that children dont interpret these things sexually, just as they dont need to understand what a doctor is listening for when they play with a toy stethoscope, which actually makes it worse. They have incorporated the behavior as children before understanding the sexual overtones which provide meaning to the behavior they are innocently emulating.

    • Alison says:

      10:31am | 29/10/09

      @E:  Who is portraying “the ‘land a man, sex for cash and leave your dignity at the door’ behavior of some women” as desirable to children? Are these nine-year-olds watching movies about prostitutes? I don’t know of anybody who isn’t either a sex worker or a fictional character who behaves in such a manner. And if children are learning about hookers and gold-diggers at this age, then the parenting is going seriously awry.

    • Proud Dad says:

      10:33am | 29/10/09

      One word:

      HALLOWEEN!

      Come on, she’s american, she was pictured going to a halloween party.  Have you seen any other pictures of her?  If so how was she dressed?  If not, how do you know she dresses like this all the time?

      Give the poor girl a break.

    • DG says:

      11:05am | 29/10/09

      @Alison:

      “When saying that a woman’s choices of clothing or behaviour are putting her at risk of harm, you are saying that she is responsible for the actions of another and that there is no way to avoid those actions except by covering up and behaving modestly.”

      On this point I do disagree. Walking down a dark alley puts me at risk of harm. Making that observation does not mean that I am responsible for the actions of another. It means I took a risk. If I walk down a dark alley and get robbed I am a victim, I did not deserve to be robbed, but with a little bit of responsibility I could have altered my behaviour to avoid the risk.

      Similarly the clothes that a person chooses to wear may put them at the risk of harm whether it be wearing a KKK outfit, wearing the away jersey while sitting with the home team “fanatics” or wearing provocative clothing. None of those things make it lawful for you be assaulted, but it’s a risk associated with the behaviour. As I have said before, the very fact that we are having this conversation shows that you know it is a risk. Against it SHOULD be safe to wear whatever you like or walk wherever you like, but it’s not a reality.

    • ChelseaLee says:

      11:10am | 29/10/09

      Jolanda, I think you make some very good points. In particular, I like your point regarding your sons and daughters, and especially your sons’ concern for your daughters. Growing up, there was nothing I wanted more than an older brother (or two) to keep an eye on me, like some of my friends had. Your daughters would feel very loved and cared for. And receiving healthy male attention from a family member will definitely make them less likely to search for it using unhealthy methods - like wearing too much makeup and a skirt that shows what you’ve eaten for breakfast, for example.

    • johnno says:

      11:31am | 29/10/09

      Have to agree with Proud Dad. If it is for Halloween I dont see a problem.

      Also have to agree with Alison, I used to have a friend who proudly declared her right to be able to walk anywhere anytime without being hassled. Reality eventually caught up with her.

    • Kelly says:

      11:36am | 29/10/09

      @ChelseaLee and @Jolanda - does that mean that girls without brothers or other close male “protectors” are more vulnerable to abuse in our community? I hope not. I believe our daughters are smart enough to not need to be told by their male counterparts what to do and what not to do. These comments remind me of a lady and her daughter in an expensive homewares shop the other day, the daughter around 9yrs commented to her mother that the items were lovely, Mum said “yes and expensive and if you want things like ths when you are grown up you will need to marry and wealthy man”. These sorts of ideas hark back to an era prior to feminism and equal opportunity for women. It is nice that your sons care about their siblings but the inference that you allow them to tell your daughters what to do implies a lack of balance in the equality in the home.

    • Alison says:

      11:38am | 29/10/09

      @ DG: You say: Against it SHOULD be safe to wear whatever you like or walk wherever you like, but it’s not a reality.

      We agree. But I’m arguing that the reality should change, and the way to change it is to spend our energies (and newspaper articles) attacking the way society portrays women, rather than the way women portray themselves. Such as this excellent campaign being run in Scotland: http://www.thisisnotaninvitationtorapeme.co.uk/

    • Alison says:

      11:41am | 29/10/09

      @ChelseaLee - can we please allow women (even young ones) to be responsible for their own safety and sexuality? Why should you say that a short skirt means that a woman is searching for male attention because she lacked it at home?

    • CJ says:

      11:59am | 29/10/09

      Ummmm….what exactly is Noah supposed to be for Holloween? Jail bait?

    • nko says:

      12:10pm | 29/10/09

      I thought she was a little vampire….the whole Twighlight craze?

      I don’t see a problem with this.  It’s Halloween.  It’s a dress up party.  I also looked at the other pics on the link in the article and the girls are off to a pool party wearing full piece cossies…hardly anything inappropriate about that but they are getting the same reactions as the Halloween photos -  the Red Bull drinking though is a bit concerning.  I can’t even drink the stuff without getting the shakes!

    • Proud Dad says:

      12:13pm | 29/10/09

      CJ says: 12:59pm | 29/10/09
      Ummmm….what exactly is Noah supposed to be for Holloween? Jail bait?

      I believe that she is supposed to be a vampire(ss) based on the Twilight series.

    • DG says:

      12:36pm | 29/10/09

      Alison (12:38pm | 29/10/09)

      I appreciate your point. But even if everyone knows that rape is wrong (and they do) you are still going to have nutters out there that are going to do the wrong thing. Every man, woman and child knows that they have the right to say no, and they know that everyone else has that same right.

      The persons that go about committing these crimes KNOW that what they are doing is wrong, no amount of education is going to change their mind. I agree that an education policy is necessary where people may not KNOW that the behaviour is wrong, but I find it impossible to believe that there is one adult male in this country that doesn’t know that rape is a crime.

      It should be safe to cross the road at a pedestrian crossing but I am certain that you look before you step out. Why? Because people do the wrong things all the time. The same reason you lock the door of your car and house, the same reason we need police and the same reason we need a military. People break the rules when it’s in their own best interests to do so - speeding (my biggest ‘pet-hate’ , I love nothing more than doing 60 in a 60 zone and holding up a long line of people who are trying to speed), parking illegally, catching trains without a ticket, illegal u-turns, running red lights…. the list goes on.

      It’s not a matter of education, they know it’s wrong. It’s simply that they don’t care about the rights of others.

    • ChelseaLee says:

      12:39pm | 29/10/09

      Kelly and Alison, you must be budding news journalists. You both have a knack of taking a quote, picking it to pieces, and stitching it back together the way that you like. Why take everything that is said to such an unnecessary extreme, and place words in people’s mouths, in order to make a non-existent point?

      Kelly - No, I did not say, and I do not necessarily believe that ‘girls without brothers or other close male “protectors” are more vulnerable to abuse in our community’. I do believe though, as I said earlier, that ‘receiving healthy male attention from a family member will definitely make them (girls) less likely to search for it using unhealthy methods.’ And while I’m not here to debate feminism, I’ll just say one thing - perhaps the era prior to feminism deserves a little more credit than what you give it.

      Alison - Never did I say that a short skirt means that a woman is searching for male attention because she lacked it at home. What I did say, again, is that ‘receiving healthy male attention from a family member will definitely make them (girls) less likely to search for it using unhealthy methods’. And yes, I do believe that wearing a short skirt is a unhealthy *method* that *some* girls use, in order to gain male attention. Let me make this clear, to avoid any confusion - I am not saying that every girl who lacks male attention at home chooses to employ these tactics. But I do believe that *some* girls who lack healthy male attention growing up, do have a *tendency* to search for it more as they get older. I am also not saying that every short skirt wearing girl is seeking male attention. What I am saying, is that if a short skirt is worn in order to gain male attention, then yes, it can be considered an unhealthy method, as I’m sure you will agree - attention should come mostly for other reasons.

      Hopefully I haven’t said anything in this post that can be easily distorted like the last…

    • Jolanda says:

      12:40pm | 29/10/09

      @Alison I never gave my sons ‘the power’ to do anything.  I didn’t give them the responsibility to keep their eye on their siblings, for them it is a natural thing for them to watch, protect and take care of each other as they are family. And yes for sure if my daughters watch over their brothers too and their friends. 

      It is good to hear that some people on this blog can understand what I am getting at. 

      And yes if my daughter was at the beach or even swimming at home in the pool in her bikini and we observed somebody looking inappropriately at her I would request that she put on her shorts and depending on the situation maybe even a dress to cover up so that the person noticed that we had noticed.  If you notice and you do nothing then it can be interpreted as you approve.  Why you consider telling a child to cover up in a situation like this as such a bad thing is beyond me.  What is wrong with teaching a child that if somebody is looking at them inappropriately to cover up.  It is just a smart and sensible thing to do and teaches children to use common sense and to protect themselves.  It is no wonder there is so much child abuse happening if parents are telling their children that they can dress and act as they want and when parents/children are not actively showing perverts that they know what they are doing and they do not agree.

    • SR says:

      12:54pm | 29/10/09

      Your comment:@ Alison… you say “I’m arguing that the reality should change”

      Not that this is overtly to do with the topic regarding with the way that a nine year old dresses, but in a general what I get from your argument (in relation to your response to DG) is that sexual response or sexual reaction (which is not sexual choice) should be breed out of society, particularly males.

      Not many people would agree that rape is justifiable (in any case), but the same logic says that not many people would agree that having your car stolen because you left the door unlocked is justifiable, however (and I am not suggesting this as an option with regards to sexual motivation based on the way a female chooses to dress – maybe to impress, or not) the owner/operator of a vehicle can be fined for leaving their own car unlocked as doing so leaves the vehicle in a position of unacceptable risk for a crime to take place.

      Crime cannot be stoped – ever. It does not matter how much “education” you give people. The world is an adversarial environment filled with haves and have nots (but generally all feel like have nots – what do you think motivation is all about).

    • DG says:

      01:09pm | 29/10/09

      Jolanda:

      Why punish your child for the other person doing the wrong thing? Why not behave like a reasonable adult and approach the person that is doing the wrong thing rather than depriving your child of their innocence.

      A 6 year old in two piece swimmers does not see that as sexy, they see it as a cute little outfit. Now by making them cover up your are telling them that their behaviour is wrong, that they shouldn’t be able to wear that, somehow the kids is doing the wrong thing. They have NO CHANCE of appreciating the subtle mind games you are playing with someone you imagine to be a predator.

      How does making your child cover up achieve the goal of showing the pervert you know what they are doing and you don’t approve? It doesn’t. The person you are accusing of being a deviant will have no way of knowing why you put the child’s shorts on, and probably wont care. Why not approach the person and say “Hi, nice day. You’re little one’s out there too?” - no allegation of any wrong doing, but points out that you have noticed them watching the kids. WOW. And your kids are happy, their innocence intact and the day carries on -  you might even learn that not every one is the sexual predator that you imagine.

      Is it wrong to see kids playing in the waves laughing, splashing stop to watch and dream of the days when your life was so simple? What about to sit down near a park for a few minutes while walking the dog and watch the kids play football in the park or swing on the swings and just rest in the peaceful moment? There’s nothing deviant, sexual or inappropriate about it.

    • zelda says:

      01:16pm | 29/10/09

      i’m less concerned with what she is wearing and more concerned with the barrage of criticism that has come her way - yes most of it is aimed at her parents but she’s only a little girl, wearing a goth outfit for a halloween party.  imagine how she’s feeling right now.

    • BT says:

      01:27pm | 29/10/09

      I wonder what the “sexualised” equivalent of a little boy’s clothing is supposed to be? Doesn’t seem to be one does there? Therefore just as Alison is saying, it’s sexist and stereotypical ideas about gender and power that need be challenged. Also, like it or not Jolanda, children are sexual beings and respond accordingly (at an immature inexperienced level), I don’t know where you get the puritanical idea that sexual feelings in children is somehow corrupting their innocence, it’s just natural function. Clearly that doesn’t mean it can be exploited or advanced before time- but there’s no shame in it. As G stated. it’s all relative to context - what is considered appropriate has changed through history and culture. Jolanda I wonder if you are teaching your children to be ashamed of their bodies by hiding them, and to fear their sexuality which will in turn affect relationships in later life? By all means keep a close eye on them and be protective, but as I think I’ve stated to you in previous posts, little boys are also the target of sexual assault, as are prostitutes, grannies, men, women, anyone - many of whom were fully clothed. Rape is about power - not sex.

    • Jolanda says:

      01:28pm | 29/10/09

      @DG asking your child to cover up because you feel a situation warrants it is not punishing the child.  Hitting a child or sending them to their room is punishing them but asking them to cover up is not punishing a child.  How many children were damaged because they were asked by a parent to put on an item of clothing on in a situation where the parent believed that they were being oogled or looked at inappropirately? 

      Maybe you think that it is best to introduce yourself to a person that you think might be a pervert and that saying hello will make a difference.  Pesonally I do not agree that it will make a difference and many perverts are very personable and some even have their own kids.  Best to teach children that if in doubt or if they feel they are being watched to stay close to family/friends and to cover up.  Some of the comments here are really bizzare.

    • Brendan says:

      01:33pm | 29/10/09

      its all the little things that add up to change the way kids and girls are. People say oh its just this or that, no big deal, but it all builds up and builds up and this little thing and this little thing and by this time its not a little thing, its a bad culture of behaviour being presented in many different ways. You know its like oh ppl on a magazine or seeing hannah montanna with a boyfriend, seeing this girl dressed up, seeing others really skinny etc etc and then theres no other way of looking at it, you have to be like that

    • Jayne says:

      01:35pm | 29/10/09

      @ zelda: ‘imagine how she’s feeling right now’ . This child is in a position where her image is available to every media outlet on the planet. Either she or her family is courting this kind of attention - but as she’s a child I don’t believe she can make an informed decision in that respect. You should not be in the media and not be aware of the ‘dark side’. People have the freedom to comment on whatever is presented to them for consumption this way. Pretending it doesn’t work like that is ludicrous - and if her parents are aware of it at least let’s hope they shield her from the worst of what is being said. Otherwise get her out of the spotlight. It’s that simple.

    • Jolanda says:

      01:51pm | 29/10/09

      @BT rape is sometimes about power and many other times about sex. 

      I teach my children to dress appropriate to the situation and to the environment that they will be in and to act like young ladies and/or young men respecting themselves and others.  I teach them that if they feel uncomfortable about something that they should listen to their body as they feel this way for a reason and that after the event it is too late.  If people think that this is damaging my kids then what can I say. 

      So far I have seen no negative impact on my children by my husband and I teaching them about self protection and self respect.  If you were to meet them and speak to them you would find sensible young people who are confident, modern and self assured and who do no need to have the attention of the opposite sex, or dress half naked,  in order to feel adequate or be popular.

    • susan says:

      01:55pm | 29/10/09

      if you’re complaining about how kids are dressed in australia, go over to american and see how things are like, over there.

      american kids are growing up more fast than aussie kids, same goes with UK—they’re all exploited by consumerism and materialisms.

      yes, noah should’ve worn something more better, but she’s a real sweet kid.

      I think people should look at their personalities rather than what’s on the outside. It’s the same with Miley. It’s not like they’re taking drugs or cocaine, and drink driving like Lindsay Lohan etc or Paris Hilton.

    • Julia says:

      02:13pm | 29/10/09

      Better just to raise your own as best you can and cross your fingers you don’t have to counsel someone else’s about language, behaviour.

    • BT says:

      02:42pm | 29/10/09

      Jolanda I don’t doubt you are sincere in wanting to protect your children, and I’m sure they are very well mannered, intelligent and likeable. I just don’t know if you are approaching things in a logical manner. You can’t control what anyone thinks, covering up sometimes even exacerbates a perverts desires - it depends on whatever fetish they happen to have latched on to. The point is that no amount of engineering of clothes/ situations/ mannerisms etc is going to control a psychopath if they intend on offending - they’re unrepentant and determined. I suspect that you are inadvertently teaching your children that if they are wearing clothes they won’t be attacked - ensuring they are unprepared if something does happen. If something did happen, then they would assume that they must have worn something that inticed the perpetrator - thus transfering all responsibility onto the victim and away from the attacker, as Alison suggested earlier. There’s no easy fix unfortunately.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      04:47pm | 29/10/09

      The design of the outfit is ok for Halloween however the dress / skirt length is too short.

      Re the boots – Serena: Daughter, aged 5 and Bernadette: Daughter aged 10 got it very very right – totally inappropriate.

      The makeup is very poorly done – probably why I’d JUST let it thru but JUST for Halloween.

    • Tereen Hough says:

      05:08pm | 29/10/09

      I’ve lived 20+ years in various parts of the US (including both coasts and the midwest) and 20+ years in Australia, where I was born.
      American young girls generally dress much more conservatively than do Australian girls. Part of this is the climate - Australians generally live in much warmer climes and dress scantily as a result.
      BUT, a broader issue is that there is just much more choice in purchasing apparel in the US than there is in Australia - driven by the dramatic differences in population.  It’s very hard to buy ‘demure’ clothing for young girls, particularly tweens, in Australia, whereas in the US you can.  Since moving back to Australia, I have purchased most of my daughter’s clothing from the US.  Now she is 19, we still do, simply because it is almost impossible to find a summer dress in Australia that has sleeves and doesn’t have a low-cut neckline.

      So, at Halloween, kids get a bit more daring and wear things they might not normally wear - that’s part of the fun of dressing up.  As has been said, I doubt this young Cyrus lady was thinking of being ‘sexy’ - she just wanted to wear a short skirt that was fashionable and showed off her boots.
      It’s the adults who think of the ‘sex’ and not the kids.
      Further, kids are not having sex younger, they are having it older, marrying older and having children later.
      Finally, it matters not so much what your child wears as a) their free choice, b) their comfort level and c) what’s going on in their mind - and that comes from appropriate parenting and communication about issues of choice, behaviour and consequences.

    • Eric says:

      07:03pm | 29/10/09

      Thank you, Tory, for informing us about what mothers say.

      I eagerly await your next piece, about what fathers say.

    • queenette says:

      10:17pm | 29/10/09

      thank you very much 4 informing us the truth of the matter, about what mother say

    • hugh says:

      11:13pm | 29/10/09

      one could say that noah cyrus puts the “trick” in trick or treat

    • Tereen Hough says:

      03:03pm | 02/11/09

      Eric;
      Ah, yes, you speak to another important issue in Australia: the devaluing (or under-valuing) of the role of fathers.

 

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