“As the number of available outlets for political news grows, so does the tendency of citizens to self-select which news to consume and which to ignore.” So says Georgetown University’s Rebecca Chalif, in her 2011 study Political Media Fragmentation: Echo Chambers in Cable News.

One reads David Marr, the other listens to Alan Jones

This statement seems obvious and fairly innocuous on the surface. Thirty years ago, people were vastly more confined in how they consumed their news - it was perhaps three TV channels and one or two newspapers.

According to the Australian Market and Social Research Society, the media has become far more fragmented over the last 15 years. Free-to-air TV has gone from five to 17 channels with over 120 subscription channels available, and we have over 600 newspapers and 1,500 magazines available to us.

Couple this with the 110 million websites (and rising) we can view anytime of the day or night, and one can see that we now have unprecedented choice when it comes to news consumption.

But is that necessarily a good thing?

In his keynote speech at RMIT’s Media, Communication and Democracy: Global and National Environments conference a couple of Wednesdays ago, University of Perugi’s Professor Paulo Mancini argued that this fragmentation of news means that niche audience has replaced mass audience. Again, it’s a rather innocuous statement.

But let’s analyse that for a minute.

The niche audience, replacing mass audience, implies more partisan-oriented journalism. The days of the one-stop-news-shop are gone, and fragmentation had led to news organisations catering directly to their viewership/readership. This in turn leads to more partisan identity of news organisations.

One only has to look across the seas to the political hotbed of the United States to see the polarising effects that partisan-oriented journalism has on its citizens.

In her study, Chalif analyses the maniacally right-leaning Fox News and throws out some interesting statistics. 45 per cent of Republicans regularly watch Fox, compared with only 15 percent of Democrats. 46 percent of Democrats never watch Fox.

Conversely, 49 percent of Republicans never watch the left-leaning MSNBC. One could argue that the partisan identity of news organisations has directly led to the political segmentation of society.

In fact, political programming which has been specifically tailored to the demographic has created a situation in the US where, in the words of Rolling Stone political reporter Matt Taibbi, “people literally hate each other, over nonsense.”

The polarising effect of partisan news organisation leads to people being more set in their ways, which in turn can only emphasise and deepen the political divide. It’s a sad state of affairs when a multitude of news options exist and people opt for the same one every time.

Human beings are creatures of habit, but in the words of Obama, “the practice of listening to opposing views is essential for effective citizenship”.

It would be nice, albeit a touch idealistic, to think of a Tea Party member flicking over to MSNBC to get another view of the political debate. But what about on our own shores?

With the countless options for news that we now have, again it is a lovely notion that we are sifting through information, absorbing different approaches and then arriving at our own considered opinions.

But in these days of ‘cult of the personality’ politics favoured by a rabid Opposition, where soundbites and slogans rule the day, one might be forgiven for thinking that this is perhaps not the case.

And you? If you regularly visit Salon or Huffington Post, do you also drop by WorldNetDaily? If you pick up The Australian, do you flick through The Age now and again?

Opposing views tend to set our teeth on edge, but they also give us a glimpse into the mind of the Other.

If these sorts of practices are practised regularly they will eventually lead to deeper understanding of ourselves and society, which can only lead to a stronger and more robust democracy. However, the cynic in us must say that ‘positions’ are much easier to hold on to than entering the complexity of debate.

109 comments

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    • Erick says:

      06:01am | 14/09/11

      Some interesting thoughts here, but the author’s own bias is obvious.

      Fox News is “maniacally right-leaning”, whereas MSNBC is only “left-leaning”. The “rabid Opposition” favours “cult of the personality” politics, and so on. It’s not very productive to look at opposing points of view if your own mind has already dismissed them.

      As for the diversity of niche views in general, it is very much a Good Thing. Gone are the bad old days when a handful of privileged, isolated journalists could dictate the public agenda at will. Now the voiceless finally have voices.

    • marley says:

      07:12am | 14/09/11

      I dunno Erick - I’ve always thought Fox was much further right than MSNBC was to the left - they’re not really opposites.  After all, it’s pretty hard to find any genuinely left wing mainstream media in the US at all.

    • Tina says:

      07:16am | 14/09/11

      But nevertheless you always have to question what you read. What is the author’s agenda? What is his view? What is the purpose of the article/study?

      No offence Erick but some of the links to studies you post to support your comments are not very objective sources.

    • acotrel says:

      07:36am | 14/09/11

      If you are being indoctrinated and you are aware of it, the indoctrination doesn’t work !  The asylum seeker issue is a prime example.  Statistically it is not a n issue.  However the opposition have played on the natural phobias of the Australian public, and made it one.  It is not about the welfare of asylum seekers or our obligations towards them.  All it is about is Tony Abbott seeking power ! It is a blatant attempt to use Eddie Bernays’s tried and proven techniques !

    • marley says:

      07:47am | 14/09/11

      @alcotrel -  talk about being indoctrinated!  You do understand that the Malaysian solution - shipping asylum seekers to a non-signatory country - is entirely and totally an ALP proposal?

    • AdamC says:

      08:58am | 14/09/11

      Yeah, I noticed that too, Erick. It’s a bit silly to, on the one hand, affect this sort of academic air of inquiry and, on the other, spray your own lefty prejudices around like Glen20.

      Also, no-one watches MSNBC, not because its left-wing, but because it’s just bad TV. Their anchors are awful, for a start, and they see to think a sort of unselfconscious, shrill mirror image of Fox News for the hard left works. It doesn’t. Left-wing messages are much more effectively packaged as mainstream and moderate, like the ABC does. Blowhard lefties turn just about everyone off.

    • acotrel says:

      09:17am | 14/09/11

      @Marley
      And the Pacific Solution was in invention of the Liberal Party.  The difference is that this time the asylum seekers have access to Australian courts to be shown just cause for their imprisonment.  Both the Nauru, and Malaysian options have been ruled out by the HIgh Court.  And Abbott must now show that he really wants to ‘stop the boats’!  If the legislation is not changed with his support he’ll be shown to be a phoney (BIG SURPRISE) !  Time’s up for him on both asylum seekers , and the carbon tax !  I’ll bet he gets his bum kicked !

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      09:19am | 14/09/11

      Fox news is sooo right wing it isnt funny, MSNBC is a left organization same as NY Times etc

      There is not 1 democratic voice in the whole entire news room, the only one they had, Alan Combs left, wouldnt blame him having to listen to Sean Hannity all day.

      What makes me laugh is they say ‘Fair and Balanced’, if they had just come out and said ‘we are right wing’ etc then people really couldnt complain as they know what they are getting.

    • Scorpius Malfoy says:

      09:38am | 14/09/11

      Fox News *isn’t* maniacally right-leaning?

    • DocBud says:

      11:00am | 14/09/11

      She is studying at La Trobe in the faculty where Robert Manne is prof, Erick. All good students know there is a line best toed.

      Thankfully, we can all stick to our preconceived notions thanks to this new Google search engine:

      http://www.newsbiscuit.com/2010/05/18/24388/

    • Dodge says:

      11:10am | 14/09/11

      You’re essentially proving the article.

      Fox News is WAY further right than MSNBC is left, it’s Murdoch’s flagship in media propoganda and he does a stirring job.

      The almost pyschopathic preaching of people like Glen Beck, Bill O’reilly, Anne Coulter, Sean Hannity, Andrew Breitbart have no match on MSNBC. Having recently read a biography on Glen Beck, I can assure you with every fiber of my being, there is no one on MSNBC with that much venom.

      And no, endless rightwing propoganda, while simultaneously announcing Fox as ‘the only source for unbiased news’ basically reveals you as the worst kind of shill.

      I’ve met card carrying members of the Liberal party with a more realistic take on that channel. Repent now.

    • DocBud says:

      11:12am | 14/09/11

      “a rabid Opposition, where soundbites and slogans rule the day”

      The ALP never use slogans and soundbites, I’ve certainly not heard “carbon pollution’ over and over again, or “breaking the people smuggler’s business model”. And, of course, “slogans and soundbites” is not itself a Gillard soundbite that Renee has swallowed hook, line and sinker.

    • gobsmack says:

      04:22pm | 14/09/11

      “Now the voiceless finally have voices.”
      Unfortunately, they won’t shut up.

    • Notvelty says:

      08:40pm | 15/09/11

      @marley.  I’ve always thought that anyone who thinks Fox is further right than MSNBC is left is about as bad as someone who thinks Fox is in the centre.

      Not that we really have a left wing anymore.  It seems everyone on that side of politics has adopted the arrogant, censorial approach that was previously entirely the domain of the right.

      Go on.. compare the conservatives of the 1950s with the “progressives” of today.  It’s the same type of people, just with a different “moral” barrow to push.

    • Gary Cox says:

      06:49am | 14/09/11

      I just read Malcolm Farr. Reckon I’ve reached my opposing views quota for the next month after that, there’s only so much rubbish you can subject your brain to before it starts having long term damaging effects, surely?

    • HappyCynic says:

      08:45am | 14/09/11

      How is an opposing opinion rubbish?  Is it because you disagree with it?  If so then you approach an opposition dismissing it before you’ve even read it.

      That’s rubbish, there are at least 2 correct ways to approach other people’s opinions, either you assume from the outset that all people are fools until proven otherwise (given the stupidity of 99% of people this is my default) or you assume that all people have at least one valid point to make whether you agree with it or not (this is the more optimistic and naive approach).

      Just digging in your heels and accusing people of bias or getting angry at them is destructive, no debate can ever be won this way.  Oh and the binary approach of agree/disagree has no nuance or maturity to it either, where’s the third option?  Or the fourth?  Why must all people only agree or disagree with an opinion?

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      09:22am | 14/09/11

      At the same time he most prpobably read Andrew Bolt and Piers Akerman thinking they ‘tell it how it is’, even thoguh Piers Ackerman only has the same 3 or 4 topics and articles on repeat.

      I personally read both sides of the story and take from each what I may.

    • TomZ says:

      10:03am | 14/09/11

      That is very true Gary. “there’s only so much rubbish you can subject your brain to before it starts having long term damaging effects, surely?” One of the biggest Hawker Britton, ABC devices is to say it so often, it will impregnate its listeners with a “new truth”. Unfortunately propaganda works.

      However, there is much more subtlety. Eg, the ABC is all over the story of the Adelaide priest (which suits their agenda) whereas they refused to run with Milton Orkopolous at the time because they would have been hurting Labor which is not OK. Make no mistake, the ABC is a very sick organisation.

    • Dodge says:

      11:58am | 14/09/11

      Piers Akerman and Andrew Bolt.

      Why any normal Australian would want to emulate or preach the words of these two shills is staggeringly hard to accept. The sort of retarded rhetoric these two come up with makes Tim flannery appear like a Fox News presenter…. Or the average Ausralian has changed markedly over the last couple of years, I don’t know which is worse.

      They’d be called wankers in ANY forum or gathering of normal Australians within 10 minutes.

    • TomZ says:

      08:05pm | 14/09/11

      Dodge “retarded rhetoric”?  “wankers in any forum or gathering of normal Australians.”? Big words. I am soooooo impressed. Ever met either gentleman?

    • Dodge says:

      01:31pm | 15/09/11

      Thankfully no, I have never met either, but forming an opinion from their numerous articles and commentary is a simple process.

      I consider Andrew Bolt to be an utterly loathsome individual, the sort of person I would have no problems arguing with or staring into his douchebag face and telling him to stick it with the sun doesn’t shine.

      He’s repugnant, willfully ignorant, hateful and anathema to proper sane debate in this Country. Akerman is flat out Chode, a chump extraordinaire the likes I thought would get 0 traction in this country, but I suppose even Australians can get caught up in the faux intellectualism they both attempt to thrust on to the public.

      I’m glad you enjoyed my vocab champ, I do enjoy mixing it up as much as possible, hope you can keep up.

    • Tina says:

      07:06am | 14/09/11

      I think diversity is very important. Its not the huge offer of information that is available its what we make of it. I always have to remind myself that when I read an article on a political or whatever topic that I am reading what one person thinks and that its not FACT but OPINION and that I have to activate my own little brain to filter it.

      We see that problem here on the punch a lot when people post studies or articles to support their view. The thing is: You will ALWAYS find something on the internet to support either view on a subject. It is not worth anything and should not be used as reference.

    • marley says:

      07:49am | 14/09/11

      Exactly.  Just look at the “truthers” thread - there’s a huge amount of garbage on the net - and a lot of people don’t have the knowledge or the common sense to sort out the genuine from the blatantly false or misleading.

    • acotrel says:

      09:27am | 14/09/11

      @Marley
      I suggest you will always hear what you want to hear ! And that’s determined by the hip pocket nerve, not what’s good for Australia.

    • marley says:

      04:02pm | 14/09/11

      @acotrel ??? huh?  That’s a complete non sequiter.

    • acotrel says:

      07:12am | 14/09/11

      How could anyone believe what they hear or see in the media ?  Eddie Bernays’s techiques of hornswaggling are in widespread use.  The main one is creating a problem in people’s minds, then supplying an answer to the problem.  Goebbels used this method to get Hitler to power, and even today we see the spin doctors playing the same game , often with similar politics !

      http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html

      All we can do is watch the body language of politicians and assess when they are telling lies!  Otherwise keep our hearing selective at all times !

    • Tina says:

      07:26am | 14/09/11

      True, you can say about Hitler what you like but he was an outstanding public speaker. Thats how he made it.

    • stephen says:

      07:55am | 14/09/11

      ‘Yes Mister Hitler, you get 3 points for shiny black shoes, 1 point for foaming at the mouth, (Ms. Braun did it too, but didn’t leave a mess)and an extra half-point for slamming your baton on the desk and yelling…I vill alvays get vot i vont !!!.
      Other than that, good luck, and the world’s your oyster’.

    • acotrel says:

      08:15am | 14/09/11

      @Tina
      Like a lot of the other guys who came out oif the WW1 trenches, Hitler was insane. He got into power by deceiving the German people - creating psychological problems, and supplying answers - himself !

    • acotrel says:

      08:17am | 14/09/11

      @Tina
      Anyone sounds good if they’re telling you what you want to hear !

    • Tina says:

      08:29am | 14/09/11

      @ acotrel

      Exactly. Which is why you have to stop for a second and think about the persons agenda for telling you what you want to hear.

    • marley says:

      08:31am | 14/09/11

      Four comments, and we’re at Godwin’s law already.

    • KH says:

      08:38am | 14/09/11

      Tina et al - as i have more than just a passing interest in that period of history, I can say that Hitler didn’t come out of nowhere, nor was he ‘insane’ - there was a long history of germanic philosophy and myths that formed a foundation for a lot of the nazi ideology, and rampant anti semitism which had many proponents of which he was one.  Its so easy to simply write him off as ‘insane’ because that is easier to understand.  Further to acotrels point, the media was not that big in those days, and could easily be manipulated.  A reminder that TV was not there, it was mostly radio, film (as in cinematic) and newspapers, all of which could easily be manipulated by the state - either directly or by ensuring that only party members could own them, and thus be in the party’s pocket in any case.  Back it up with the threat of concentration camp, and voila, you have control. 

      I doubt you could say that was happening in Australia, or any other western countries.  The article is suggesting that people choose what they want to hear, and the media plays to that by working to a specific audience instead of maintaining any impartiality and thus forms a closed circle which deepens political divisions.  I’m not sure how once again, someone managed to get Hitler into the conversation.

    • Tina says:

      09:02am | 14/09/11

      KH

      I am German and have talked to my grandparents about how they experienced the time. Its too difficult a topic to discuss here. Same as Hitler’s mental state. You are right by saying that making him insane is too easy. And I am no psychologist. But I would say you have to have severe issues that go beyond the common antisemitic view of the time. I am sure heaps of psychologists have spent years dissecting his personality.

    • acotrel says:

      09:30am | 14/09/11

      @Marley
      ‘Four comments, and we’re at Godwin’s law already. ‘

      You guys are so touchy about nazis !  Nobody called Tony Abbott one !

    • acotrel says:

      09:39am | 14/09/11

      @KH
      This is not about Godwin’s law. I mentioned Hitler in connection with Eddie Bernays.  Eddie was Sigmund Freud’s nephew, his techniques are widely used throughout advertising, and they are easy to recognise once you are aware of them.  Eddie was dismayed to find out that Goebbel’s had his book on his shelves while cultivating Hitler.  About Hitler’s sanity -  I suggest that anyone who promotes mass murder is insane.  Can you really tell me he wasn’t totally delusional ?

    • Tina says:

      11:03am | 14/09/11

      @ acotrel

      That is the same discussion we had about the Norway gunman. Insane or not. Was quite the debate. Personally I go for the same idea like KH that insanity is too easy an answer. But this is not the question of the article. Insane or not, Hitler managed to misguide a whole nation (and more). Through selective and incorrect media and presentation, propaganda, captivating speeches and actually doing a few “good” things like creating jobs and building autobahns. Giving someone a job and rebuilding a country are powerful arguments.

    • Aitch B says:

      04:20pm | 14/09/11

      @acotrel

      For once I’m not going to comment on your mindless ramblings.

      But for God’s sake if you’re going to use exclamation marks and question marks don’t put a space between the last letter of the sentence and the mark.

      You don’t put a space between the last letter and a full stop so why do you do it with the others…... it’s driving me insane!!!

      It’s basic grammar. Even a scientist of 40 years should know that.

    • Gidgee says:

      04:38pm | 14/09/11

      I was very much around the traps during the Second World War and, ever since, I am increasingly amazed how we of the west are coaxed, urged and led to dwell on that European madness of 1939 - 45 with regular sneering commentary being flogged, hell, west and crooked about the Austrian-born fellow Adolf Hitler.
      Why do we do that?
      Since Hitler and Churchill had their murderous ways with so many innocents of the globe in a heinous trade war we have rarely, if ever, tried to aim our barbs about warfare at those who followed suit: such as they who engineered the Korean war, the Vietnam war, the Afghanistan war and the horrendous Iraq war all of which were predominately arranged by those who held great sway in Washington DC.
      Shouldn’t we, then, take the Republican Party of the USA to task in the same way as we’ve so blindly and so ruthlessly talkied and ranted about the Nazi Party of long gone Germany?
      Both those sometime powerful political parties should be classified as brutal examples of human lust for power, for land ownership and for trade dominance but all we get, over and over and over again is a sick attempt to raise our western standards by decrying the great German nation of circa 1939.
      ...as for the persons who raised the hoary old “anti-Semite” bogy I do think, given the shockingly violent conduct of the state of Israel (which was created in 1948) starting with the Jewish terrorist mob called The Stern Gang and continuing in abject ruthlessness and land theft to this day that it’s time we of mankind started to see the displaced Palestinians point of view rather than harping on about Jewry when, right now in time, those of Israel are acting, very much, just like Germany did when its army trundled into Poland in ‘39.

      Yeah, I know, The Punch cannot allow this one of mine because it might offend some very important members of the Jewish hierarchy…
      ...but you did raise the question about the other fellow’s point of view, didn’t you?

    • stephen says:

      08:03am | 14/09/11

      Don’t listen to’em.
      Calmy pick up TV guide, look for the remote, and switch on cartoon capers, and turn up the volume and laugh out loud.
      The pick up phone, and dial for a pizza.
      Ask, out loud, for a family pepperoni, as ..‘I’ll be here all afternoon, and pick up a six-pack on yer way over, willya ?’

      I’ve done it.
      It worked… and I’ve never had so much fun on me own since Bruce Willis put back on his toop.

    • Jay says:

      08:18am | 14/09/11

      The bigger the lie the more people will believe it. (Adolf Htler)
      This carbon tax is a case in point.

    • acotrel says:

      10:18am | 14/09/11

      @Jay
      there is enough evidence for you to make your own judgement !

    • Mark G says:

      08:24am | 14/09/11

      Excellent article Renee. I think one of the biggest problems with the media today is not just that there is a division of left and right medias. That is the symptom, not the problem. The problem is that they have a political standing at all. When did the news become political? about the time when reporters first started to give ill-informed and often uneducated opinions about the stories they were reporting on. About the same time that the news became less about telling the truth and more about ratings. About the time when the line between fact and opinion became blurred and people ceased to realise the difference. About the time news sources became more like political or gossip columns. About the time when 15min fame sluts, claiming to be experts, became the most popular source for confirmation of reporting. Which is about the same time the news agencies began to realise that division and public outrage from both sides of the political spectrum sends your ratings through the roof. About the time they completely sold out to the lunatic fringes of politics. The death of credible mainstream media.

      The other issue relating to media diversity is cased by the internet. One of the greatest issues facing modern society is the influx of information and the assumption that many people have that all information is good information. The belief that every website that publishes information on a topic must publish accurate information. Its amazing the way people will believe anything they see on a website and yet if they were walking down the street and were approached by a complete stranger sprouting the same delusional misrepresentations of fact they would politely say ‘No thanks’ and walk away. This is what the modern media is competing with. People start to become bored with mainstream media because the true facts are just not interesting enough. The decline in media can, in many respects, be attributed to their desire to compete with these unsolicited sources or even jump on their popular bandwagon.

    • Tina says:

      08:39am | 14/09/11

      When have news ever not been political? You think what you heard 80 years ago was purely objective? I might dare say that every article reflects a persons opinion, intended or not.

    • marley says:

      09:25am | 14/09/11

      I think we have this vague impression that once upon a time the news was objective.  When was that, exactly?  Hell, the earliest newspapers were either one-sided political broadsheets or government-controlled publications.  Throughout history, news has been slanted by the leanings of the owners, the government, the reporters,  and by the culture in which it is published.  Do you actually think that a history of WW11 would be the same, if written by a Russian in Russia, an American in the US, or a Brit in the UK?  All three might write totally factual books but they wouldn’t tell the same story at all.

      For that reason, I don’t ever expect a paper to be “objective” - because they’re produced by people and people aren’t objective.  I do draw the line at outright fabrication -but if I want something approaching “truth,” I have to read all viewpoints and make up my own mind .

    • acotrel says:

      10:16am | 14/09/11

      @Marley
      Many things are written to intentionally manipulate opinion !  It’s part of democracy, but it has gotten many of our servicemen killed from time to time.

    • Mark G says:

      11:08am | 14/09/11

      Agree with you all. News has never been perfect but the credibility in recent times has particularly taken a nose dive in both political directions. In the past, politically bias news has been able to be clearly identified by the people or organisations writing them. For example if the communist party in Russia were writing about WWII then you would expect a bias view of how communism defeated the Nazis but that is quite obvious. When archaeologists study Greek and Roman monuments that depict great battles that these empires won, they always apply a healthy hint of scepticism. History is written by the victors even more so in ancient times. The true difference these days is the fact that there is such an information overload from ambiguous sources that it is difficult to determine what is credible and what is an attempt to exert an agenda. Particularly with internet sources. The problem with today’s media is they don’t care. They just print whatever sells. They also pass many deluded extreme viewpoints off as mainstream in order to make people feel bad about not being part of that view. A lot of this often involves straight out fabrication of facts.

      Marley,
      I particularly agree with your last paragraph. I do that myself. Problem is that not everyone has that degree of rationality and willingness to see all the facts. Kinda what this article is about. It has taken us a generation or so to come to the realisation that just because its on TV doesnt make it true. I think it will take another generation to accept the idea that just because it is on a website also doesn’t make it true.

    • ronny jonny says:

      08:26am | 14/09/11

      “Half of what you ‘ear is bull, the other half’s all shit” Kevin Bloody Wilson.
      One of the modern worlds great philosophers….
      I try to listen the other side but it makes me so angry, it’s easier to just ignore it. The beauty of the left is that nearly everything they’ve tried over the last century has fallen on it’s arse, it is a woonder that they can get anyone to listen to them at all. It remains for us to just be patient and pick up the pieces when it’s all over. They are like naive children, except they don’t seem to learn from their mistakes.

    • JP. says:

      03:01pm | 14/09/11

      And here lay-in the second problem. Two sides.

      1. The other side is too hard to listen to. (Let’s say tea drinkers are obnoxious to you, so you always choose coffee and refuse to listen to the argument for tea.)

      2. There are not two sides, any more than there were four lights. (That’s one strike for the clearly leftist Star Trek). Let’s take the topic of the day - carbon. Before we get into the people affected, there’s at least five sides on the issue in the Parliament, even if you disregard all the sides within those five sides (believe it or not, a political party is not like the Borg [well, that’s two] - there are individuals with their own agendas within).

      After those five, and their sub-points of view, you have everybody from the green industries, to the ‘big polluters’, to the ‘low polluters’, to households, regulators, and the rest-of-world to contend with.

      Clearly, the whole of the matter cannot be covered by just Tim Flannery and Andrew Bolt. Listening to that pair in isolation is as bad as listening to just one of the two: you end up making a decision based on a false premise - there are two ways to do this. There are millions.

      But the choice between coffee and tea is easy, especially if you dismiss tea as an option all the time, which is a very tempting thing to do, and so people Kling on to that false dichotomy [and that’s strike three, and I’m out.]

    • Truthful Jones says:

      08:27am | 14/09/11

      I read each sides propaganda and believe only what I have thought about critically.  So believe nothing of what you read or hear and use your own judgement.  So many things are covered up like the abhorent behaviour of the Muslims on the Tampa towards the small Mandeaen Sect of Islam when the would not let them eat with them and threw their food onto the floor.  Told once by a Islamic person once on the ABC then buried so listeners would not become xenophobic or bigotted like the assylum seekers.

    • Steve says:

      08:58am | 14/09/11

      I pay attention to opponents only to find weaknesses in their arguments, and to see what they are avoiding talking about - like extra costs and taxes, lack of proof of effectiveness, and the freedoms lost or regulated away (all for the greater good or equity or The Australian Way, or “mateship” or social justice, of course).

      Pick an end-result, find a justification and then cherry-pick your evidence to support it is how most discourse is carried out.

    • marley says:

      09:27am | 14/09/11

      You seem to be following your own advice to a “T.”

    • HappyCynic says:

      09:43am | 14/09/11

      “Pick an end-result, find a justification and then cherry-pick your evidence to support it is how most discourse is carried out”

      And this is proof that 99% of the world’s population (if not more) are all idiots.

    • John Smythe says:

      09:03am | 14/09/11

      More than happy to listen to debates, discussions critically analysing both sides. But the real question is, does Mal even know there IS another side? The only indications he gives is when he’s blaming Tony Abbot for everything.

    • Tina says:

      09:19am | 14/09/11

      But come on, we are all human. When I am very passionate about a topic then I admit that I struggle to listen to other views. I accept that people have other views but I rarely change my own. Thats because some things are personally affecting us, no matter what the stats say about the issue.

    • acotrel says:

      09:45am | 14/09/11

      All that Abbott can be blamed for is the tone of his rhetoric.  He’s dragged the debate to an all time low.  But you can’t blame the guy for trying to grab power.  It’d be nice if he was constructive sometimes ?

    • John Smythe says:

      10:02am | 14/09/11

      Tina, if only it were just that. The only message of passion that comes across from his articles is his blind faith in the labor political spin machine. There is no critical analysis of his own supporting government’s decisions. They can do no wrong (according to him). If something goes wrong it is Abbott’s fault. How childish and worse, deluded.

      But I digress, in that I am mistakenly expecting intelligent discourse from someone who is supposed to be a professional in this field.

      In contrast, Tory is quite passionate about a lot of different topics. She has her central theme, but she is not afraid to discuss the other side’s point of views, concede a good point, and debate to her side of a topic.

      /shrug

    • MarkS says:

      09:06am | 14/09/11

      Why should I listen to the other side, I am always correct & what they say is rubbish anyway? Answer: So I know how to counter their foolish lies.

      But honestly those people who rely only on information sources that reinforce their beliefs are running the risk that the real universe will blindside them & smash their little artificial world to bits.

    • Matt F says:

      09:39am | 14/09/11

      It’s quite natural. We like to be told we’re right and we find comfort in being told just that. It’s called Confirmation Bias.

      http://www.sciencedaily.com/articles/c/confirmation_bias.htm

      Basically we (or at least a fair portion of people) don’t form our opinions based on the available evidence, rather we form them based on what we would like to believe and then look for evidence to support ourselves whilst dismissing opposing evidence.

      The reason why it appears to be so much more common now probably has a fair bit to do with the Internet. We can now access any “information” we want in seconds so this “evidence” is very easy to acquire

    • RyaN says:

      09:43am | 14/09/11

      I listen to intelligent people who can easily prove their competence and don’t need to lie.

      This is why no one is listening to that dropkick liar of a prime minster we have. “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead!”

    • acotrel says:

      09:48pm | 14/09/11

      @RyaN
      ‘I listen to intelligent people who can easily prove their competence and don’t need to lie.’

      Do you mean Tony Abbott ? ? ?  There are three things in your sentence which I’d love to see you justify. ‘There are none so blind…. ?’  Do you also believe in fairies ?

    • RyaN says:

      09:42am | 15/09/11

      @acotrel: “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead”. game, set and match pal. I guess its hard being part of the 23% of thickies left in the country.

    • Chris L says:

      07:50pm | 15/09/11

      RyaN, did you know you’re only quoting half a sentence? Gillard went on to say she would bring in a carbon price… but that part gets edited out of the quote just about every time. On the eve of the election Andrew Bolt was pointing out that Labor would bring in a carbon price, not realising at the time how much more mileage he could get by claiming Gillard had promised otherwise.

      http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/gillard_wont_rule_out_jacking_up_power_prices/

      I assure you I point this out as a swing voter. I honestly can’t see myself voting for either major party at the moment.

    • acotrel says:

      09:50am | 14/09/11

      I had to laugh.  A few minutes after Labor came to power, the Libs declared that the ALP were all about spin.  If anyone should be able to detect it, it is the Liberal Party -  they lived on it throughout two Menzian periods ! It was used continuously to hide their do-nothing ways !

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:29am | 14/09/11

      Shhhh…. The grown ups are talking now

    • Al says:

      01:26pm | 14/09/11

      I would rather a goverment that did nothing to a government that turns everything they touch to S^%T.

    • RyaN says:

      02:25pm | 14/09/11

      @Al: its called the reverse midas touch and the Labor party seems to have touched acotrel.

    • acotrel says:

      09:33pm | 14/09/11

      @Al
      ‘I would rather a goverment that did nothing to a government that turns everything they touch to S^%T.’

      That’s exactly the problem with Australia, It’s the reason we’re so backward.  Any decision is better than no decision ! The odds on getting it right are always better than those of getting it wrong !

    • RyaN says:

      09:45am | 15/09/11

      @acotrel: “The odds on getting it right are always better than those of getting it wrong ! ” and yet the Labor party seem to have 100% odds on getting it wrong every time.

    • Anna C says:

      09:59am | 14/09/11

      I listen watch ABC news on the telly, listen to ABC News Radio and 702 ABC Sydney and read the SMH every day. It doesn’t make me a leftie or make me believe all their leftie/PC/Greenie propaganda. But I believe that it’s good to have your beliefs challenged on a daily basis.

    • James1 says:

      01:16pm | 14/09/11

      Well said.  Although I draw the line at reading the SMH…

    • RyaN says:

      02:19pm | 14/09/11

      Can you explain how listening to blatant lies and propaganda is “challenging” your beliefs?

    • James1 says:

      03:21pm | 14/09/11

      RyaN, David Lloyd George once said that a politician is a person with whose politics you disagree, while if you agree with him, he’s a statesman.  Very much the same can be said about comment and opinion.  If you agree, its a great point, if you disagree, its propaganda.

      However, I would note that while comment and opinion is free, facts are sacred.  As such, facts and lies sit in a whole different category to opinion and propaganda.

    • RyaN says:

      09:49am | 15/09/11

      @James1: and to date the ABC are quite selective with the facts aren’t they. Dishonest is the word then.

    • Direct says:

      10:07am | 14/09/11

      Once again we have the media trying to blame consumers for their own failings. Renee patronisingly asks whether we consume a balance diet of opinion and comment from various sources. Let me tell you somethign Renee, most of the garbage that tries to pass itself off as journalism is crap. If you wanted to do a decent article, how about you present the facts. A good start would Greg Jericho’s article on the Drum today about Politics and Perception: http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/2898204.html

    • T S Sebastien says:

      10:21am | 14/09/11

      With politicians and the media refining the art of “spin” to a fine art is it any wonder that the general public have started to selectively filter their media to only the sources that they trust (i.e. ones that share a similar view to their own).
      And given that the highest forum in our country (i.e. parliment) has not produced a session worthy of the term “debate” in the last 20 years why would you expect the general public to behave any differently?

    • Tina says:

      11:09am | 14/09/11

      True. But really having a stimulating debate is not so easy. Everyone being open minded, knowledgeable, able to express their thoughts etc. It is especially difficult when the opinions are very opposed and not just slightly varying. But whenever I was part of such a debate I loved it. Anyone knows what I mean?

    • Phil S says:

      10:30am | 14/09/11

      Yes, it is called Confirmation Bias. It is a well known phenomenon, and to a greater or lesser degree each and every one of us is prone to it.

    • S.L says:

      10:47am | 14/09/11

      I make a point of listening to commentators that oppose my viewpoint. Politically speaking the broadcasters on 2GB/MTR are extreme right wing in my opinion and where I’m not a lefty or conservative voter I have a good laugh at the Liberal/National party MPs that get excessive airtime to bellyache daily. The ABC of course are totally the opposite but a little to left for my likeing too. What do you call someone who sits on the fence? A splinter collector?

    • BJA says:

      10:59am | 14/09/11

      There needs to be some serious conversation about Media ownership in this country. News Corp owns way to much of the pie. It has almost reached saturation point.

    • Dodge says:

      11:06am | 14/09/11

      Of course not. This is why the infiltration of tea party culture is so dangerous. Australians love to hear people singing their tune, hence the popularity of talk back.

      Australians WANT to read /hear/research what they know and care about no matter how flawed, how backwards or how detrimental to the country.

      This approach to gaining knowledge ensures the slow disintegration of the middle-class as it dumbs the populace down… All in favor a of a US style cash funneled plutocracy ably supported by the lower classes labor and toil. I’m surprised righties aren’t hoping to use illegal immigrants as cheap labor, Mexico style. I guess they have good old work choices, destined to be back in 2013 for that though.

      The first step in affirming your position should be to read the position of the other side… There are countless wingnuts, just on here, that I’m sure have never read any counter arguments to their own position. Never investigated the reems of evidence from actual experts, choosing to take the right wing interpretation offered by bafflingly idiotic simpletons like Ray Hadley.

    • Tina says:

      11:13am | 14/09/11

      You expect kids that base their decision on who to vote on who Britney Spears and Justin Bieber are campaigning for to do research?

      I always wondered why actors or muscians think they are qualified to enter public political debates. Just because we like to see your movies doesnt mean we want to hear what you say about immigration.

    • Dodge says:

      11:48am | 14/09/11

      Um, not sure on the voting age in your alternate Universe, but in my world 18 is the minimum age. Other than, I have no idea what point you’re making, are Britney and Justin very politically active? I don’t know. It amuses me if they are.

      I applaud folks who REALLY have no need to enter the political debate but choose to. I think it’s hilarious right wingers give these people abuse (and let’s be honest they mostly lean left, despite having a lot of cash, often because money is simply a bi-product of their career - as opposed to conservative financiers or Corporatists whose life it is to create more and more wealth, but I digress).

      They don’t need to expose their views to the public - they choose to because they are compelled to. Right wingers just find it annoying because they tend not to align with fiscal OR social conservative ideals. Often those righties simply can’t get over wealthy people supporting left leaning policy… Though fine with various corporations (the job of which is to increase profit) spraying propoganda on the tv with those recent lame ads.

    • Tina says:

      12:00pm | 14/09/11

      @ Dodge

      Justin Bieber was a random choice but I remember Britney Spears campaigning for George W Bush and urging people to trust him. I think there are heaps of celebrity examples entering political campaigns.

    • Tina says:

      12:00pm | 14/09/11

      @ Dodge

      Justin Bieber was a random choice but I remember Britney Spears campaigning for George W Bush and urging people to trust him. I think there are heaps of celebrity examples entering political campaigns.

    • Tina says:

      12:00pm | 14/09/11

      @ Dodge

      Justin Bieber was a random choice but I remember Britney Spears campaigning for George W Bush and urging people to trust him. I think there are heaps of celebrity examples entering political campaigns.

    • Dodge says:

      12:24pm | 14/09/11

      Whoa, triple attack! Heh.

      I’m just kind of stoked the Beibmeister was brought up smile  he actually has said he would hate to live in the US - because of the dire health care situation.

      Britney really did that? Far be it for me to reveal my political affilliation, but it’s unsurprising she came out in support of the worst US President in history… No offence to Britney fans!

    • engineer says:

      11:10am | 14/09/11

      As said there is evidence in the article for bias. Perhaps because socialists are under such attack these days and are being shouted down when they make a direct stand they are trying more and more indirect defenses.

      Anyway, essentially I think you assume the tail wags the dog. Labour has tried to blame the media (and everyone else) for their woes, and this article also assumes the media has an overruling influence on people’s positions. I think that’s wrong. I think while some less engaged and sophisticated observers might be mislead in the short term, sooner or later people see what’s really going on and make their own minds up. As the saying goes: you can fool some of the people some of the time…

      Australians traditionally don’t like their governments, but they hate more than anything instability. The current government regardless for ideology, brand or anything else has brought failure. They have dithered about with enquiries, reports and reviews, then when they act they demonstrably stuff up. They have blown the surpluse in record time, and JG told a tremendous unambigious unforgivable lie to get re-elected.

      I’m not a coalition fanboy. I had voted independant and minor party until recently, and thought the majors equally corrupt and incompetant. I truely believe the intense attacks your seeing from the electorate are not conservatives attacking socialists, but rather australians attacking an outstandingly incompetant government, and they are driven by a fear and hatred of the instability and uncertainty the last 4 years have brought.

    • John Smythe says:

      11:25am | 14/09/11

      well said engineer!

    • acotrel says:

      09:42pm | 14/09/11

      As an engineer you must be able to recognise the difference between constructiveness and negativity, coercion and encouragement, reward and punishment, motivation and demotivation, intelligence and inanity, creativity, and ludditeness ?  Which sides of parliament are they on ?

    • engineer says:

      07:52am | 15/09/11

      I’d say half are on both sides and half are missing.

      All I see is corruption, incompetence and ego.

      I would say the coalition are less overt with those characteristics. I doubt they are absent, but they are less obvious. And they balance the books.

    • marley says:

      08:06am | 15/09/11

      @acotrel - both sides.

    • jade (the other one) says:

      11:22am | 14/09/11

      Renee, congratulations on such a timely, and reasonable article. I recognise that much of the news sources I watch tend to have a left-leaning bias, or are outright left-wing. So I try to balance that by reading the views of even people whose opinions I disagree fundamentally with. Very rarely does it change my opinion, however, it has assisted me to develop a greater understanding of those who have a differing view.

      For instance, one only needs to look at the differing emphasis placed on news stories by various news networks to gain some insight as to the beliefs of their viewers. Mainstream media focuses heavily when asylum boats are sighted in Australian waters. If you are not someone who takes in a wide array of media from a variety of sources, you are less likely to be aware of other issues, and to believe that boat people are a major source of immigration to this country.

      If you believe that, and you only hear the words used to categorise them in the mainstream media, you are less likely to develop an understanding that they are, comparatively speaking, a small drop in the ocean of our total illegal immigration intake.

      I am by no means attempting to suggest that concerns that members of the public hold with regard to asylum seekers are not legitimate, however, that there is a disproportionate focus on this issue, when compared with the proportion it constitutes of our larger immigration problems.

      Similarly, you see a wider variance of focus on Indigenous issues by the left (whether they agree or not) because left-leaning media tends to have a larger focus on these issues.

    • OchreBunyip says:

      11:48am | 14/09/11

      It all reminds me of a joke,

      Q:How do you know a politician or a journo is lying?
      A: Their lips are moving

      Statistically *all* of them could not be inveterate liars but the daily avalanche of BS continues.

    • Tina says:

      12:02pm | 14/09/11

      Maybe not liars. But we are biased. All of us. Even when we try to keep an open mind.

    • James1 says:

      04:03pm | 14/09/11

      Indeed Tina.  It is those who claim to have no bias, or claim to be entirely fair and balanced that one must be wary of.  The point with bias isn’t that it must be eliminated, because this is impossible.  Far better to simply recognise your own bias, and effectively account for it by explicitly noting it in your writing.

    • Wickerman says:

      01:14pm | 14/09/11

      Opposing & varied media sources are good. I read selected sites from the whole spectrum. Even if it just to giggle at the absurd statements & articles.

    • left turn only says:

      04:43pm | 14/09/11

      I am too old to be sensible ! To get the other side of every story, I would have to read the Daily Tonygraph back to front!
      I have to apologise to the Daily Tonygraph for not reading their sides of the stories!

    • DaveMac says:

      04:50pm | 14/09/11

      Most of my friends are of the centre or right of centre, most of my wifes friends are of the centre left or left.

      My ‘right leaning’ friends are always happy to listen and argue in a friendly way with her ‘left leaning’ friends.

      Unfortunately her ‘left leaning’ friends always lose their cool and storm out, or get angry and stamp their feet.

      Im sure others have noticed this too…..

    • LJ Dots says:

      05:58pm | 14/09/11

      DaveMac - though anecdotal, I have to admit I’ve noted that same tendency.

      That said, I’ve also noticed that age can have a bearing, the younger the leftie or the older the rightie seems to dramatically increase the likelihood of a regrettable outburst.

    • Chris L says:

      07:58pm | 15/09/11

      To be honest DaveMac I think we just notice the poor sports from the “other” side more. My own impression tends to be that the left are more civilised than the right, but this is probably because I won’t remember a childish insult or blatant lie that isn’t directed at me or my beliefs. I suggest that this phenomenon might apply to your good self as well.

    • Ben says:

      10:37pm | 14/09/11

      I work with a passionate right winger, he comes to work and spews his right wing propaganda, it makes me sick!!!!!!! First off he whinges about people taking government money and if he had his way there wouldn’t be a dole, and any young person who is on a pension is a out and out bludger unless they have a physical disability.  Mental illness well they have 2 arms and 2 legs there bludgers!!!!  he complained for months and months how the Qld labour state Goverment waste money and was dead against Rain water tank subsadies he would say this just proves how Labour wastes money. Guess what? he has a rain water tank !!!!!!! Dont get him started on the federal Labour waste especially on solar panels omg the guy wouldn’t shut up. Labour stuffed up pink bats now it’s the solar panel scam!!!!!!! Just more proof of labours waste. Hmmmmm guess what? Yes he has Solar Panels on his roof!!!!!!!  The digital set top box what a rort that was, guess what!!!!! he has applied on his fathers behalf to get the free set top box!!!!!!! Urgh!!!! Freaking right wingers!!!! This is the type of bullshit I and other fellow staff members have to put up with and the amount of fights he causes is beyond me. People who are as passionate as my work collegue should live by their beliefs but they don’t yet they expect everyone else to. Years ago I didn’t care who you voted for, but now I totally despise far right wingers they sicken me!!!!!

    • Robby says:

      12:57pm | 16/09/11

      Yeah, extreme right or left are brick walls and hypocrites. You say this guy has a rain water tank. Ask him if he has mossies in it yet spreading dengue fever and the rest. You see these rain water tanks say they are safe but the truth is the wire that covers the entrance deteriorates and one small break allows mossies in, to breed at will.

      Water in water tanks should always be treated with an oil solution on top to prevent mossies breeding when they do get in.

      Extremes sicken me full stop. Especially those who shout their ignorance to the world.

      Try saying something like that to him. When he starts just say “Excuse me, we’ve heard your ignorance on display many times and would prefer to not hear it again. If you want to rant on politically then go to a political rally. This is an employment zone and we are entitled to not be berated by a right wing fanatic.”

      Then walk away and don’t engage. Do it repeatedly every time he starts.

      Do the same to left wing loonies and religious nuts too. All of them have one track minds and it’s just a matter of which “belief” takes them over. It usually comes from their fathers so ask him what his Dad supported. You’ll see.

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      02:35am | 15/09/11

      HI Renee,

      Especially, when we tend to have discussions about politics or religion, there may not be an end in sight, to our daily conversations.  After all we are all from very different cultural, racial & socio economic backgrounds to begin with & we are all entitled to our own opinions, right?? But to able to see the point of view of others or to listen to the other side of the story, always takes a certain kind of intelligence & patience!!

      On the other hand, what we find these days, that some things we read in the news papers & what we watch on TV may be a little bit subjective & one sided!! We just have to make up our own minds about what is real to us & what is not, in our world at large!!

      I have discovered to my pleasant surprise that we always learn more from just listening to others, rather than enjoying the sound of our own voices, even though it might prove to be a little difficult at the very beginning.  We just have to be curious enough to take the time to try & just listen.  Life can be full of surprises sometimes, especially when we discover that we are not all that different!!  We just happen to have different points of view, at the end of the day.  Best regards to your editors.

    • Eric Winders says:

      07:27am | 15/09/11

      Fortunately, with today’s access to the www, we can read opinions from all over the world. Even non English articles translated. It’s then up to the individual to construct his or her INFORMED opinion, and vote occordingly, it’s to be hoped.

    • Eric Winders says:

      09:14am | 15/09/11

      Oops! Bad spelling, sorry.

    • Forgotten Australian Family says:

      10:23am | 15/09/11

      Which news sites will have the courage to explore OUR allegations? We live in hope that there will be an expose of the networks of paedophiles-in-high-places that infest the judiciary, legislature, police, churches and schools.

    • Reg says:

      07:52pm | 15/09/11

      What a load of rubbish. We only hear what the medis allows us to hear

    • Robby Hart says:

      10:03am | 16/09/11

      Renee,

      Sadly, you are assuming that we have reporters who report news left in Australia. We don’t, we have people who write opinions. Theirs or their bosses. It’s still just opinions.

      Our media is just a print version of Fox News TV which is no surprise given Rupert owns both.

 

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