Almost 10 years before he became one of the nation’s most accomplished welfare bums - living off the very parliamentary super scheme he railed against as Opposition Leader and now gloats about receiving in his newspaper column - Mark Latham was making a lot of sense about the explosion of welfare dependency in Australia.

Peter Nicholson in The Australian.

Latham was especially energised by the surge in the number of Australians on the disability pension. He tackled the issue at length in his dour but valuable1998 tome Civilising Global Capital. The book was ridiculed as an unreadable doorstop by the Libs, run down by envious Labor non-thinkers as the showy work of an intellectual poseur who was using it only to position himself for the leadership.

But it contained a lot of provocative thinking about the (dictionary definition) incredible rate at which Australians were signing on in their 50s, 40s, even their 30s for a life on handouts as they convinced the welfare state that they quite simply could never work again.

When Latham was writing and talking about the issue there were 600,000 Australians on the disability pension. A decade later there are 700,000.

Despite the occasional toughness of his language, Latham was not motivated in his examination of the issue by work-for-the-dole gimmickry, where the true intention was to grab votes by humiliating the unemployed rather then encouraging people from welfare to work. He came at it from a humane and socialist perspective - he was arguing from a position of dignity.

He was particularly galled that so many people in his own party, including his leader Kim Beazley, were hostile to his even raising the issue. He had every right to be. It seems bizarre that so many people can be drawn to the left of politics by the old Marxist idea of the alienation of labour, and are driven by a desire to give workers more power and purpose in production, but will shun any discussion of the hundreds of thousands of people in society who produce nothing at all, fearing it sounds too much like a populist welfare blitz.

Both for Labor and the Coalition, the ambitious examination of the disability pension has become the policy that dare not speak its name. It is certainly easy to accuse any party advocating serious reform of being callous and cruel. That lazy task has fallen to oppositions of either hue over the past 15 years. It’s frustrating, because at no stage in this simmering debate has anyone been talking about kicking the disabled off the pension. Rather, the question has been - what about the people who are accessing the pension who are not fully disabled, perhaps only barely disabled - or not disabled at all, but simply in a family environment or a community setting where their work-averse behaviour has somehow been turned into a recognised medical condition.

A couple of years ago The Daily Telegraph spent some time in Sydney’s poorest suburbs working on a special report about welfare dependency and found one family which had turned it into an inter-generational art form, with the 20-year-old grandson telling the paper he had never actually had a job at all because he had ADHD and as such qualified for the disability pension.

The usual knee-jerk criticisms have been meted out this week against Tony Abbott.

Abbott, according to that tired journalistic construct, was apparently “embarrassed” by the emergence of a document he submitted to the Coalition Police Development Committee last year, just a few days before he became Opposition Leader, where he advocated sweeping changes to the disability pension.

Abbott estimated or guesstimated that around one-third of the 700,000 people receiving this pension had what he called “less serious medical conditions” and should be forced to apply for at least two jobs a year, and have annual medical assessments to monitor their condition.

He wasn’t talking about people who are paralysed from the neck down or riddled with a terminal disease - but people whose disability is manageable, or slight, and would not prevent them from part-time work or full-time work in a lighter or modified capacity.

When this document emerged Labor was quick to suggest it was another example of Abbott’s apparent heartlessness, and some disability advocacy groups came out demanding he drop the policy forthwith. To his credit Abbott did not. While he was clearly irritated by whatever internal party machinations had resulted in the leak, he wasn’t prepared to be cowed into withdrawing a moot policy. It was almost as if he was busted for thinking, in much the same way that Latham was.

Abbott said on Wednesday that he wanted the Opposition to try new ideas, and that Australia needed to maximise the productivity of its people if it were to remain prosperous. “That means trying to ensure that as many people as possible are in the workforce,” he said.

To many this remains a form of heresy. Apparently it’s better to maintain a welfare program which would consigns people to a dispiriting life of indolence, exposing them to the mental health anguish which comes with non-participation, rather than ask them some slightly tougher questions about what they could actually do.

Compared to the rest of the developed world, Australia’s disabled pension is so generous that it probably masks the true rate of unemployment here. Our jobless rate might be less cause for cockiness if the pension was not offered so readily. But the flipside would be that our economy would be stronger, we would have fewer headaches about importing workers through our immigration program, and we’d have a whole lot less alienated Australians living in subsistence conditions with no sense of value. On current trends it will take less than a generation for the number of disabled pensioners to top one million; many of them are being killed with the false kindness of a system that could do so much more to bring them back into the fold.

89 comments

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    • Furious says:

      06:05am | 27/02/10

      I’ve commented before on this subjest, because it annoys me so much. I know of several people on disability pensions that are more than able to work. I have actually lost a couple of friends due to the fact that they seem thrilled with the fact they’ve been granted the disability pension. One fell off a motor bike riding home from the pub drunk one night fifteen years ago. He claimed he has continuing pain in his leg and can’t stand up for a long periods of time. He was given the disability pension and has never worked or intends to work again. He doesn’t have pain in his leg anymore and hasn’t for almost the whole time, which he confessed to me. Just needs to go to the doctor and limp in the door and complain about how sore his leg is occasionally to secure his ongoing pension. In his particular case I could never understand why he wasn’t made to search for work not requiring him to stand for long periods of time. Hence I became tired of this welfare user and no longer associate with him. This situation is not a rare case, it’s quite common among other people I have encountered or have known, they are often found down the pub, in the poky room or at the TAB. Another example is my next door neighbour who says he feels anxious when he is around other people and finds it difficult to communicate, so he’s granted the disability pension and he’s 45. (doesn’t have much problem communicating down the pub or club on Fridays. I could go on and give you several other examples, but I won’t here. It is also common knowledge among alot of them that if you get the disability pension youv’e “made it”. The disability pension is being abused all over the place and something should be done to stop it.

    • michael french says:

      08:34pm | 28/02/10

      judgmental heartless people who have never had serious health problems should not judge everyone on the disability pension because of the minority that abuse the system,I have had serious heath problems since a child and was nearly bashed to death by thugs in 1997 which caused acquired brain injuries ,I will work as much as I am able to but if my pension was cut of it would finish me,most people I know on the disability pension are genuine and would not cope well without their pensions.Since Canada cracked down on disabled pensioners it has been a disaster with homelessness and drug crime getting out of control due to desperate people who would not have turned to crime otherwise,so with increased expenditure on law enforcement it has cost the country billions more than the pensions cost.The biggest welfare bludgers in this country are the politicians with their tax payer funded pensions and travel.Those who target the disabled and poor who cannot defend themselves are just like schoolyard bullies and are in truth really cowards

    • Nigel says:

      06:12am | 27/02/10

      My ex-brother in law is one of those bludgers who was swept up in the welfare system years ago by a lazy bureaucrat and labelled as unable to ever work again.  He hurt his arm at work and was on light duties at the time that the factory he worked in closed down.  Consequently, because he was injured it was decided that he should be on disability and not the dole.  He will never be re-assessed and loves the lifestyle - freedom to do whatever he wants.  He rarely travelled outside of his local area when he did work, he doesn’t read newspapers or watch the news, he owned his own house outright (it cost $25 000) and as long as he can play cards with his mates, buy shorts, t-shirts and thongs from Lowes and pay for Foxtel his life is complete.  He is able bodied; uneducated, but shrewd; and more than capable of taking on any form of work that doesn’t require repetitive, weight bearing action with his arm like retail or office work.
      Basically he contributes nothing to society and never will. The ALP are happy with that and any mention of reform to the disability pension system brings howls of uninformed protest, much like use of the work ‘nuclear’ - oh my God ... think of the children!!!!!  If I remember correctly the Liberals were proposing reform when in government but dropped the proposal because of the banshee wailing of the ALP leading up to an election.

    • Elizabeth says:

      06:53am | 27/02/10

      I don’t know anyone on the disabled pension but a quick websearch, has told me its not so easy to get this pension, people with cancer and Leukaemia are denied the pension because the condition is deemed as temporary. Despite getting chemo therapy and blood tranfusions ect. It seems to me that Abbott is targeting the sick and disabled to justify his own ends. I think you can safely assume thats 700,000. people who won’t be voting for him and presumably a large number of carers. The Rudd Government gave pensioners..all pensioners the first rise since 1972 when The Whitlam Government raised pensions by 10%, another Labor Government. Australian pensioners both disabled and elderly are not silly, they know they will get no support from Abbott

    • The Cricket says:

      02:13pm | 27/02/10

      Elizabeth, you haven’t read a thing anyone else has written, have you? You clearly hate Abbott and the Liberals and you’ve simply tailored your argument to suit your prejudices.
      Sad.

    • JR says:

      07:54am | 28/02/10

      Not sure why you would bring up cancer patients not getting the pension. The Labor party has no plans to add them to the list. Perhaps if the coalition win the next election and reform the system then they can swap some bludgers with them.

    • Sarah Jane Jones says:

      08:07am | 28/02/10

      Because targetting the sick and disabled is exactly what a politician who desperately needs votes would do to achieve his own ends. What ends are those exactly? Losing 700000 votes plus the votes of carers? Yeah he is definitely serving his own interests there.

    • michael french says:

      08:39pm | 28/02/10

      yes I agree completly but some people are very niave and foolishly believe that abbott wouldnt take their pensions,lets hope most see the truth about this heartless politition

    • WKH says:

      07:41am | 27/02/10

      I am in the unfortunate position of being a full time carer to a terminally ill wife whose is obviously on the disability pension. I encourage both sides of politics to grow some balls and tighten up the welfare system. Abbott is dead right to go after this one and Krudd would be wise to do the same. The fraud that takes place is mind blowing. I personally know of a few others on benefits that haven’t worked a day in their lazy lives. Milked the system for all its worth and still do today. I bet we all know someone who we think is rorting the system. I ache to have an opportunity to re enter the work force but can not leave my wife alone. Try living on a carers pension? You can’t!  We live way down below the poverty line. Hell, I can’t even see the poverty line anymore. Welfare should be something done as a last resort. Shake the system up and watch the billions of dollars in savings that could be made. Then do something for those of us who have no choice.

    • Phil says:

      11:23am | 27/02/10

      WKH

      Agree as I have written below. The problem in your case as you mention is the amount you are receive for a relatively short period would not even cover your costs. My personal view is that like unemployment benefits the amount for a short period of time should be much higher but not for a long term, thus not penalising those who for a short period of time do as you do or loose their jobs genuninely. It would also give an incentive to get back to work at some point.

      I dont often suffer fools, but many are as you and others say rorting the system. I often work on pain for neck and back ailments. (Compression fracture of lower vert) but even then only had 2 weeks off sick and whilst I have always been self employed, and do seek treatment whenever I need it rarely loose a day from it.

    • persephone says:

      07:42am | 27/02/10

      What an ignorant and insensitive article.

      Firstly, many of those who you accuse of convincing the governnment they could never work again were deliberately classified as ‘disabled’ by the government in order to get them off the unemployment lists - in other words, it wasn’t their choice.

      Secondly, for the disabled who do want to work (and that’s the vast majority of them) there are multiple programs to assist them into the workplace, and a lot of encouragement for them to do so.

      Anyone who has talked to disabled pensioners (and I suggest you do so, as a matter of urgency) would not be - could not be - as flippant and heartless about their position as you appear to be.

      The way our disabled are treated in this society is shameful. People like you blame them for the position they are in and accuse them of being bludgers, whilst they struggle along on minimal payments and support.

      Noone plans to become disabled. It’s not a lifestyle choice. It is something that happens often totally unexpectedly - you wake up one morning perfectly well and end up the day unable to work ever again.

      This means the disabled haven’t been able to do what other pensioners can - they haven’t been able to prepare themselves. Thus they find themselves living on a minimal income without having had an opportunity to prepare.

      Penbo, if you’d talked to the disabled woman I talked to the other day, who can’t afford the airfare to fly to Perth to see her dying son, and can’t physically sit in a car for a journey of that length, you wouldn’t be so heartless.

      If you’d talked to the two young girls I know, in their twenties, who as a result of acquired disabilities now can’t have children (they lack the physical strength), can’t travel, can’t work and are regularly abused by people for being slackers on the system, you wouldn’t be so heartless.

      I’m sure there are disabled people out there rorting the system, just as there are journos out there who cheat on their tax.  I’m sure neither of us support either case.

      We should condemn behaviours, not categories of people.

    • WKH says:

      05:19pm | 27/02/10

      Which article did you read? Not once did David say take anything away from genuine recipients just fraudulent ones. What is wrong with that? Your not a fraudulent one by any chance are you? LOL

    • Mrs James says:

      05:57pm | 27/02/10

      Well said my dear!! Don’t you worry there are many in Australian Society who agree with you.  I have spoken to many people this week about this issue and most feel embarrassed that we would pick on those most vunerable in society and to ask the rest of us to work till we are 70 years of age to fund this vendetta is shameful

    • JR says:

      08:01am | 28/02/10

      Where in the article is it stated that the disability pension is going to be wiped out completely and legitimately disable people will be disadvantaged? All you have done is name a bunch of people who are legitimately disabled who will not be affected by reform, or if they are it is more likely they will better off without the leaches on the system. Perhaps the lady would get to see her son in Perth too, how can you be so heartless Persephone?

    • Miliped says:

      10:26am | 28/02/10

      I agree totally and I think some of these posts are made up, for example the guy who said his brother in law bought “tshirts and thongs from Lowes. I called into Lowes this morning and unless your working or have someone ready to go guarantor, you can’t open a credit account.  Whilst I was there I priced these Thongs $7.99 I felt totally saddend that anyone would need to take out a loan to pay for them. The money they recieve is not alot and I doubt very much they could afford luxuries like Foxtel..

    • Nigel says:

      12:15pm | 28/02/10

      Milliped, my post is not made up and I don’t thionk I wrote anything about a credit account at Lowes so I’m not sure where you got that informatin from.  He does wear nothing but t-shirts and stubbies with thogs in summer and he does have Foxtel.  He and his wife won’t live much of a life, but they’re happy just living off the government and never having to work.  Sometimes fact is stranger than fiction.

    • persephone says:

      01:57pm | 28/02/10

      I know Penbo isn’t advocating getting rid of the disabled pension (reading being one of my strong points).

      My point is that writing about disabled pensioners in the way he has vilifies all of them.

      If he wants to pick on real rorters who can take a little biffo, rather than the defenceless and the vulnerable (who, even if they were rorting, would be fleecing the government of a measly couple of hundred quid a week) why don’t we see him go for the tax evaders? Or white collar criminals? Or even - to be topical - employers who send their employees into danger to save a couple of bucks?

      People who rip off the tax system, for example, rip off each and every one of us, either because we have to pay more tax to make up for them or we don’t get the level of services we could have if that money was available.

      If Penbo wants to pick on a group of people, they’re far worthier of his attention.

      Picking on the disabled - even if he means it to be only the ‘fake’ disabled - further victimises people who are already vulnerable.

      And I would point out that my original post made it clear that I disapproved of rorters of any system.

    • Phil says:

      08:08am | 27/02/10

      Pembo cant believe I am typing this but great article.

      You have not taken a politcal one party point scoring opportunity from Abbotts leak/proposal, instead purely made a well thought point. Mind you wait for the loonies of each persuasion to come forth sprouting their vile either by saying Abbott is heartless or that they should burn alive anyone on the disability pension.

      Like everyone who reads the punch, we are all aware of someone who is on the disability pension. After all if 700,000 are on the disability pension that equates to 1 in every 31 Australians. Broken down to those of working age and not students or old age pensioners, it is probably more like 1 in 20 again 5% of the workforce, which would give us a true non participation figure of those in the employment bracket of over 10%.

      One or two I know could get a job but choose a welfare lifestyle over trying to get a job, yet my brother in law could qualify for one but refuses to as he is capable of some work, mind you he does have periods of medium term unemployment but has never collected any payment for this due to his parents helping to set him up with property interests.

      As you rightly say this issue needs discussion. As a country we simply cannot afford the welfare money that would be payable in say 20 years and must address the issue when we can.

    • steve parker says:

      08:43am | 27/02/10

      Don’t always agree with you Dave - but this is a well written, thought out piece. The problem for Abbott - do you do the PC correct thing and not risk alienating this large group of non-participants and their dependent families - or do you go with what most people in Australia who are employed are thinking - that there needs to be some rigour applied to their non-productive status.

    • watto says:

      09:02am | 27/02/10

      Abbott’s main disability is his mouth. And congrats on your big fat pension BTW Tony!

    • Old Bloke says:

      09:27am | 27/02/10

      Spot on, David.
      I think most of us know of exampoles of abuse of this program.  In my and my wife’s family we have examples where the couples have been receiving disability pensions for many years but are still well enough to put in a full days work when it suits.  Bloody annoying to those who have paid their taxes all their life and never taken a dollar of welfare!

    • nic says:

      10:41am | 27/02/10

      Well done Penbo for speaking about a serious issue that is generally swept under the carpet.

    • be softer says:

      11:09am | 27/02/10

      It would be far more effective approach if the gay society would changed their tactics and be quiet about their life goals that they are trying to achieve.  For instance, take our home turf, Sydney.  It has been said that Sydney is a city of sin, called ‘sin-city’ for a multitude of reasons.  In addition in has also been reckonised as a city for guys.  So you see folks, it is far better to take on the policy of ‘don’t shout out your wants and needs’ and we won’t scrutinize you’.  Be softer at your approach.

    • MexicanBeemer says:

      11:46am | 27/02/10

      Disability Support Pension is this countries joke. Sure some people rort the system but there is another side of the coin that the media seems to ignore.

      As a country we are not serious about getting people on DSP into the workforce.

      The employment service sectior is a two tier system, on the one hand you have the DSP and Job Network providers and on the other hand we have the normal recruitment agencies.

      When Government or medium to larger employers seek staff their first call is to the normal recruitment agencies, clearly these employers are making a statement by choosing the normal recruiters.

      Do any of the larger recruitment agencies have a contract with the Government to provide employment services to people on DSP.

      NO

      On top of this if you are on DSP and out of the workforce you face another problem, our education system seem disinterested in anyone that is not in the workforce, basically having the effect of reducing a person’s employment opportunities.

      Basically this country’s skill shortage is a myth caused by a strange indifference to the increasing number of people sitting on DSP.

      The irony is there are many people with serious disabilities who struggle with poor services and this also has a major impact on their families.

      In writing the above the Rudd Government has thus far done a better job than the Howard Government in turning around this joke, the changes to Job Network while in my view did not go far enough did remove from the system several poor performing service providers.

      The Government has increased access to the Uni sector which is also a welcomed improvement but in saying this i am of the view that we need to treat big business claims of a skill shortage as buck passing from their own lack of commitment to workplace training.

      Considering Governments have over the years been actively slashing business taxes, the corporate sector could at least return the favour and invest those saved tax dollars in increased workplace training.

    • Angela Lloyd says:

      12:41pm | 27/02/10

      The disability pension serves its purpose.  It is there for the disabled, nothing more and nothing less.  If you really wanted to take a closer look you would probably fine a minority group of people that are expert in milking it for all its worth.  The C.Whispers have it that the name ‘alcoholism’ is the disability to have a stab at and to put down on the dotted line for claiming this pension.  Clearly, if you possess that type of persona, you will resort to anything just to milk the system.  Those are viewed at as crooks and that is that.  May I suggest that, by looking further, deeper into the cause and to the reasons as why and how this has happening.  This should be the avenue our government should seriously consider and embarked upon. Why people are so intent to go-the-road of lurks and perks within our system leaves me absolutely bewildered.  I am talking about people from the top-end to the bottom end of the money chain.

      A clearer focus must be adhere to, in particular with such matters as to all of the pension scheme. Added to that the unemployment rate, as this figure can change depending on which data system the Government use. It would be well worth the money spent on another ‘Henderson Report’.  A truthful (legal)  H. Report would reflect a far more precise figure.  It would scale from the top, the wealthiest down to the poorest people of the Australian population.  It would include data such things as who gets the biggest slice of the financial cake and who doesn’t.  The report would also include the wealthiest people with or without government support (pensions) and also the poorest people.  It would point out exactly what is the basic wage and who are those people, where do they live, what type of job do their do.  It should be made very, very clear as to how and who sets the standard of the so-called ‘basic wage’.  Is it just a safety net until some else arrives or what?

      I can almost grantee you that you would be gob-smacked, bewildered, you even faint!  I am talking about a true analysis and certainly not a make-shift-do or a political Machiavelli analysis.  Thank-you.

      Ref: Political Machiavelli strongly suggests, however, that the government (both sides of the fence) must not hated. ..... See also “Machiavelli’s Prince : Political Science or Political Satire.

    • 6clegs says:

      12:45pm | 27/02/10

      Yeah, make the bludgers work. It won’t be too hard for them to all find jobs that fit their criteria, will it?

      And when they’ve all got all these high paying jobs (for 2 days work) they will have to pay Market Value rent - that should take care of any cash needed to buy food, car/petrol, rego, power, clothes, let alone medicine they might need so they can work, because they will all be getting paid such huge amounts, won’t they?

      And then Australia can genuinely ask the US to be the 53rd state - and bang goes the boring flag debate as well -  the fundy libs will be able to openly pay their subs to the GOP, without having to *ahem* “donate” via their southern redneck mates - sorry again, Belles.

      Look, I know it’s becoming boring, but;  it was jonny that told Centrelink to put long term unemployed onto the Disability Pension to ease the unemployment figures - then for political reasons (the same ones that kept the masses frightened, and voting for him) changed all the rules again… if Mr Penberthy thinks he can just rock up to Centrelink and ask to be put on the DSP - and it’s done - then he needs to stop imbibing quite so early on a Friday.

      But going by the huge number of comments, somehow i don’t think that this is quite the pressing problem that Mr Murdoch, sorry, David Penberthy thinks it is.

      Anyone who thinks living on the DPS is easy, or preferred it to actually having money deserves to be on it. Because surely no employer would employ someone with such low IQ?

      i would have thought that such a person would be dangerous (or expensive) to have in the work place…

    • Anglela says:

      06:57pm | 27/02/10

      you go for it 6clegs!!!!! You gave me a much needed belly-laugh..
      Oh yeah.  The 53rd state.  Gosh I haven’t heard that since uni many years ago.  Any-how keep punching!!!!

    • Paul says:

      01:36pm | 27/02/10

      Typical Liberal beatup, can’t handle Aussies on welfare but Abbott, the politically handicap (from company handouts and ‘donations’) says nothing about corporate welfare, PAYE taxpayers footing most of Australia’s tax bill - not to mention the massive welfare and subsidies to industries like coal.  Let’s not encourageTony in his lazy Liberal hypocritical sport, to punch below his weight again.

    • formersnag says:

      01:50pm | 27/02/10

      There is one problem you have all missed, our problematic, health care system. There are probably some people on the disability pension because of “mental illness”, who could, be “cured”. But that would require a lot of money to provide a mental health system that is interested in a cure or some form of rehabilitation, as opposed to, “prescribing some pills without any useful psychotherapy” and a lifetime on welfare.

      Similarly there must be some people with chronic physical ailments, like the proverbial “bad back”. Who have received no medical treatment, physiotherapy, rehabilitation, etc. Who might one day, be capable of something if only, they could get some, medical treatment at all, let alone anything effective, from our defunct public hospital system.

    • acker says:

      02:19pm | 27/02/10

      Good comment Penbo, but we should also take into account that jobs for people over 40 are drying up. I think tis issue needs to be attacked on 2 fronts, getting those who dont honestly deserve pensions off them and creating more job opportunities for over 40’s, 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s. Again like I suggested with employers that have under 15 employees, rebating payroll tax may attract employees to hire older workers.

    • Passing wind says:

      03:04pm | 27/02/10

      I know a couple who haven’t worked for 25 years.  14 years ago, he got himself a disability pension. The reason, as his wife told me, believe it or not, was stress due to looking for work. They actually sold that excuse to Centrelink and a friendly doctor made it happen. Since then, he has had a pacemaker implanted which solved any medical problems he has apart from stage 2 diabetes. He has painted out his house, sold it and is now renovating another house. He has just turned 60 and isn’t required to have another medical for 5 years.  His wife picks up the dole without having to look for work because she has been unemployed for so long.

      I blame the governments past and present, and centrelink for using this ploy to reduce the unemployment figures.  At the very least they could demand that the disabled have a rigorous medical every 6 to 12 months. It might seperate the genuine disabled from the spongers.

      I hope Tony Abbot has the guts to follow through, because the present government are only good for throwing good money after bad.

    • go tell on them says:

      04:07pm | 28/02/10

      Tell the couple to go pass-wind or better still, brake-wind somewhere else. 
      If the couple you are talking about haven’t worked for 25 yrs and so on and so on, why on earth have you not notified the department.  They need facts and will not go on hearsay,,,
      So go do it,  and do be shy.  I know I would.

    • thomas vesely says:

      03:18pm | 27/02/10

      grandpa overboard.

    • thomas vesely says:

      03:24pm | 27/02/10

      to find work ,i was told by a number of potential employers that there were problems with hiring the disabled? it was a insurance issue,concern.?

    • d says:

      03:57pm | 27/02/10

      I also once lived with someone on the DSP. He couldn’t work due to some vague shoulder injury that caused him pain - yet he was able to ride a pushbike from Pyrmont (where he lived with his boyfriend, my roommate) to Kings Cross in order to buy drugs.

      It seemed his only disability was a desire to not work and sit around smoking pot, drinking beer and watching Foxtel. His mental health deteriorated significantly during the 9 months I knew him due to his lack of direction in life causing low self-esteem etc.

      You are right in that the DSP masks the true unemployment rate.

      You are also right in that many of them should be made to work in duties that will not aggravate their disability.

    • persephone says:

      07:00pm | 27/02/10

      No, disability pensioners don’t mask the true unemployment rate.

      The unemployment rate is not based on who is receiving what payments from Centrelink, but on a survey of households.

      The number of people who are either working or want to work make up the ‘available workforce’ figures.

      The percentage of people in the available workforce who are not in work is the unemployment rate.

      Thus, a disabled pensioner who wants to work will be part of the unemployment numbers (and one who doesn’t, won’t be).

    • Ashley says:

      04:20pm | 27/02/10

      The DSP is a somewhat of a paradox. On the one hand there are people with serious debilitating mental disorders like schizophrenia and bi polar, and people with potentially life threatening illness who find it difficult to qualify, or if they do are still required to seek part time employment. On the other, there are people who claim depression, but otherwise seem to both present and function reasonably well in life, who easily get the DSP without any requirement to seek work. I’ve personally known of at least three people like this who are fit, abled bodied and could easily cope with 15 hours a week work. These people aren’t bed ridden with chronic depression or on the verge of committing suicide. Actually they seem fairly happy when socialising at the pub and going to movies.  They can afford cheap holidays and to buy computers courtesy of the DSP whilst someone on low or casual wage struggles to afford these things.  Same with druggies they get pensioned off for life.  Get a taste for meth, pot and alcohol and the state funds the lifestyle.  Its absurd.  I can understand financial support whilst someone is recovering from chronic substance abuse or depression, but where’s the impetus for these people to bear some of the burden and take responsibility for their lives. Meanwhile you have the government job services indiscriminately pressuring others to take degrading low paid work irrespective of whether they’ve made an effort to educate themselves and improve their prospects. What about putting some of this pressure on the life style druggies and those with mild depression as well. I also know of someone who grossed 40 k last financial year, in an industry where busy and slow periods are the norm, who still claims disability payments over the summer period when work goes quiet. She’s apparently been doing this for a few years. Such an inquiry is long overdue. The DSP policies need to be thoroughly scrutinised and overhauled.

    • S.L says:

      04:32pm | 27/02/10

      As they say in parliament Dave HEAR, HEAR! I see so many examples of people ineligable for disability pension but get it and other examples of people who deserve it and don’t have a chance in hell of getting near it. One of my employees has just got home this week after triple bypass surgery following a heart attack he suffered at work. He’s a real battler with a low income earning wife and a mortgage. We sent away all his particulars to Centrelink and got him a whopping $50 a fortnight while he’s off work. They are presently looking at their daughter and her family moving in to help pay the bills for a period of time.
      On the other hand one of my customers has Aspergers Syndrome and has just started recieving $159 a week disability allowance when he turned 16 while still living with his family. Not to mention his grand parents, father, stepmother and an uncle who all live in the same house have never worked also.
      Messers Latham and Abbott are spot on with their crtisism of this pension as this is only one example of many I know.

    • Blossom says:

      04:48pm | 27/02/10

      I am a Labor voter, have a high interest in social justice issues especially for Aboriginal people and work in the disability sector.  I would love to see some serious changes to our welfare system whereby the scammers were identified and cut off welfare.  We may then have enough money to properly support those who really need it, like WKH above, who not only is doing it tough, but saving the country untold dollars by providing the personal care his wife needs.  I despair of “sit-down money”, unemployment and Disability Support Pensions paid to those with work capacity.  I despair of medicos too ready to write the report or certificate needed to be on welfare.  I despair of families that work so hard to stay on welfare that if they put that much effort into actually working, they would be very successful and have more economic choice, more life choice and more health choice.  I despair of my ability to make a difference.

    • S.L says:

      06:11am | 28/02/10

      Blossom I don’t think the problem is with the scammers (but of course I’d like to see them take off too). All the examples I know of went through legitimate channels to get their (deserved or otherwise) benifits.

    • Julian Thomas says:

      04:55pm | 27/02/10

      Your comment:why in all hell, does family members of a super obese person get to buy a daily $2.50 PET pensioner ticket, to travel to work?

    • John says:

      04:55pm | 27/02/10

      As an ‘elder’ Australian I get really pissed off at the insinuation that those in my demographic are/will be resonsible for the demise of our economy in the future: inter generational report et al. When it is widely known/held that the degree of rorting related to the ‘disability’ pension is manifest. (I’m talking rorting not need, here.) If you add the number of disability rorters who are buried in the statistics because their benefits are paid by a program other than centerlink-state and federal- i would think that the number may exceed a million. The annual bill makes the ongoing insulation debacle look like small change!!  (Mick)

    • AL says:

      08:02pm | 27/02/10

      John
      Don’t get too upset. 

      I can understand were you and many many other elders of Australia are coming from.  The age pension is totally out of whack and not in-line with to-days cost of living.  In fact it is an insult to our older Australian people.  Same applies to those who generally need the disability pension.  It appears that you are view at, politically speaking ‘the people that find themselves in unfortunate circumstances’.  That statement makes my blood boil!!!

      In the Menzies era most things were censored.  The government ran at very tight fist, it decided to let the population know only what they wanted them to know. And I will challenged anyone on this issue.  The Henderson report goes back pre-war..ok…now let’s talk about the post-war years, up to 2010.  1967-67 censorship had been lifted.  Prof. R. Henderson’s Report had been released.  It was used for many thing but one in particular was to establish whether Australia was a classless society, “Was Australia really a classless society”.  Was Australian a population of no really rich people nor was there no really poor people.  The released Henderson report, a very precise analysis showing the period from pre-war to post war through and beyond 21 century.  It contradicted and criticized this political statement and clearly showed that   95% of the Australian population lived below the poverty line or just on it.  Poverty or border line being of a huge scale of the ‘who get what and how much of the dollar,  a smaller 5% of the Australian held most of the wealth, they are the very rich.  I also stated that the basic wage had only been set so as not to put Australian into a third world category, however this basic wage has been and is still far below the poverty line.  Pensions from all categories are below that.

      It would be a great idea to strip the fat-cats of their tax-payers pension…O sorry they call it their super.fund and they are entitled to it.  No I guess that will never happen.  Rather the Government (both sides, council etc)  will clearly choose to point their fingers at the wrong side of our community.  After all, pollies must look after themselves first.

    • exzilerate says:

      09:57pm | 27/02/10

      Many people on a DSP suffer a mental illness such as Bi Polar Disorder etc etc. I think the figure with mental illnesses is about 25% or thereabouts. So its easy to kick these unfortunate people in an attempt to crack down on the few who may have rorted the system. Remembering of course it is not easy to get a DSP in the first place and after July 1st this year when new rules come in for new Pension applicants it will be even harder. It may be true some of the early DSP Pensioners who qualified under the 30 hour rule may be able to take up at least some part time work but even that may not be possible. The Howard Govt. tightened the rules to may it 15 hours a week or under that an applicantis not able to work plus other qualifying rules. Attacking DSP Pensioners there for is not a thing any Govt would be thanked for. One never knows when you might need a DSP yourself. Its alright for Abbott to prattle on when in Opposition but in Govt tackling the problem is a very difficult one indeed.

    • 6clegs says:

      11:33pm | 27/02/10

      What confuses the hell out of me are the fundy liberals who; *Hate* and *Deplore*  the Australian social security system and call our country a “Nanny State” - while at the same time want to have control over womens bodies, and what 2 consenting adults do within the privacy of their lives. (gay marriage)

      What their beliefs are re Money vs the basic Human Rights of their countrymen are complete opposites. I wonder if any of them know how to spell: d o u b l e - s t a n d a r d ?

      I’d also like to add that the only people that I’ve known personally to have rorted the Pension (DSP or Aged), and were oddly proud about it - all the time making banal ‘excuses’-  were all *very* well off and had a penchant for voting LNP. . .
      ...one was closely related to an LNP Senator & very proud of the relatives position; so not hard to guess how that person voted. The others are landed gentry “farmers” who would rather fall on a blunt sword than vote Labor- just the thought of voting Green would them send them apoplectic, shortly followed by massive Coronary

      So the idea that it’s just poor dead beats that rort our SS, are like most of the comments, way off base. But i bet that even those boasting about rorting the system aren’t getting anywhere near as much money as they tell you. Ever thought that maybe if they’re lying to Centerlink, that they might just also be lying to *you*?

    • Public Record says:

      07:29am | 28/02/10

      Oh dear. There are, we all know, some lead-swinging bludgers in every walk of life. At work, in parliament, on the pension, in retirement, and on disability pension.

      But what does it have to do with employment and unemployment figures? Very little, in fact, despite Nicholson’s 5-year old cartoon and despite the rather foggy hints in the article.

      Receiving any sort of benefit or pension has nothing directly to do with whether you count as emplyed or unemployed in the ABS survey.  This is old ground, covered before on The Punch.

      When we’re looking at employment and unemployment estimates, we’re looking at information that has been designed with monitoring the economy in mind. As the Australian Burea of Statistics carefully explains - and every country worth a cracker does pretty much the same.

      In broad terms, over the past week in the period being surveyed,  to be employed you must have a job in which you did some paid work. To be unemployed in that week, you need to have been without a job and have done no paid work - and you must have actively looked for work and have been available for work. 

      The whole point being to measure those who are active in the economy. It doesn’t matter if you’re retired, disabled, or on a pension. If you did some paid work, you’re employed. If you didn’t, but looked for work and were available, you’re unemployed. 

      The balance, those who did none of these, are not in the labour force. Some retirees will be in that group, but not all. Some pensioners will be in that group, but not all. Some of the permanently diabled will be in that group , but not all. In 2003, about 15% of people with a profound disability were in the labour force.

      Yes, there are finer details to cater for those who have a job but are away from work. No, a glance at a morning paper or the PC screen doesn’t count as actively looking. No, you cannot be both employed and unemployed at the same time.

      The employed and unemployed have been counted the same way, without fiddling, for decades in Australia. No Prime Minister nor Treasurer has fiddled with the method, ever.

      Previously discussed here:
      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/the-one-christmas-present-kevin-rudd-doesnt-need/

      Labour Statistics: Concepts, Sources and Methods
      http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6102.0.55.001

      Information Paper: ABS Labour Market Statistics, Australia, 2003 http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6106.0.55.001

      Disability, Ageing and Carers, Australia 2003
      http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/4430.0

    • Public Record says:

      09:29am | 28/02/10

      “You may be eligible for Disability Support Pension if you have an illness, injury or disability and you are:
      () aged 16 or over and under Age Pension age[1] at the time of claiming, and
      () not able to work for 15 hours or more per week at or above the relevant minimum wage or be reskilled for such work for at least the next 2 years because of your illness, injury or disability, or
      () be working under the Supported Wage System (SWS)[2], or
      () permanently blind.

      To assess your eligibility for Disability Support Pension, we usually need a report from your treating doctor or specialist on your disability, injury or illness.  You may also need to have a Job Capacity Assessment[3].”
      Source: http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/payments/dsp_eligible.htm

      “Job Capacity Assessment
      The Job Capacity Assessment is a comprehensive assessment of an individual’s ability to work. The assessment involves identification of any barriers to employment and any assistance that may be required to help them overcome those barriers. For people with medical conditions or disabilities, the assessment also identifies their current and future work capacity. Information provided by individuals will be used by a Job Capacity Assessor to complete this assessment, to assist in determining the appropriate type and level of support that the individual requires.

      As a result of this assessment, individuals may be referred to either Job Services Australia[1] or a Disability Employment Service[2], depending on the level of help required.”
      Sourcce: http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/services/disability_emp_ind.htm

      “Supported Wage System (SWS)
      This system incorporates a process of productivity-based wage assessment. For example, if a person involved in Supported Wage System (SWS) is assessed as having a productivity level of 70 per cent compared to co-workers performing the same duties, the worker and the employer can agree to ongoing employment at a pay rate of 70 per cent of the normal rate.”
      Source: http://www.centrelink.gov.au/internet/internet.nsf/services/supp_wage_system.htm

      Overall Summary, Disability Pension v Unemployment :
      The Punch staffers have trotted out yet another sloppy piece of journalism without troubling to check the public record. Slack.

    • Not enough info - Public Records says:

      02:03pm | 28/02/10

      Dear Public Records,

      You are very well versed but not well enough. 
      This is the sort of announcement that a leading government will do.  It will pluck out figure to suit the purpose.  If the gov. needs to attack it will pull figures out of that particular date system.  On the other hand if it (gove) needs a come back answer to counter-act a poohie statement made by its opposition it will use another data base system.  This is the   system of our. Government.  You would know if you have studied Political science or law.  Either you are flowering up our readers or you really don’t know.  If you did or have worked the political floor you will be well aware of this process.  god bless and thank-you

    • Public Record says:

      03:56pm | 28/02/10

      NEI is ill-informed. The Labour Force Survey has been gathered & published by the Australian Bureau of Statistics since the 1960s.  Since 1978, it has been the official source of employment and unemployment estimates - in part to address the sort of confusion he appears to be suffering.

      The ABS and others do collect and show a range of other data on jobs, on benefit recipients, on employment unemployment and the like; some of it by household survey, some of it by employer survey, and some of it from administrative records. 

      None of these other source provide both employment and unemployment at the same time, in directly comparable measures, consistent over decades.  As for finding data suitable to the purpose at hand, in a constructive sense, that is precisely why the ABS carries out a range of complementary, broadly comparable surveys of employment, unemployment, andof jobs. These surveys, and the Labour Force Survey in particular, have served our country well under every government for the past 40 years.

      If NEI chooses not to accept what I have said, that is up to him. It is amusing in a sense that he (like many a Punch poster before him) has not then troubled to check the facts for himself, though my posts gave ample scope to do so.

      As for trying to smear my integrity and level of knowledge, the sort of trick resorted to by the most lack-lustre posters on The Punch,  I couldn’t care less. He is wrong on every claim. But then, he couldn’t even get my nickname right.

    • same as, same as says:

      11:18pm | 28/02/10

      Leading Governments will only use ABS Data system as a politically ‘talking up’ the unemployment % figures.  On a different circumstance to suit their agenda they may find another data system that could proved to showing more moderate % number - a lesser % .  This then will be use to get the message across to the public. The method of changing to different data systems as to make sure only to use the most appropriate data system to suit the Gove. of the day.  Political speeches and different data systems have been the common practice ground for gove.’s and still is today.
      Has been used for many, many years and has served many, many governments on both sides.  It serves one purpose and one purpose for gove. “to talk it up” so to speak and that is to distort the exact % number.  One may say it is to romanticize the general public into believing unemployment has improved.
      Menzies was an absolute export at this numbers and % thing.  He campaigned heavily on issues of the same nature.  His speeches won him, his party the success they desperately needed, improved his position of government ,  granted him victories and a stronger standing by the Australian population.

      Menzies Policy Speech
      1951 - This policy speech promised was ‘TO DO FULL JUSTICE’ to the need of pensions and indicated to a Nation Scheme was in process of development Ref:  (quoted in Kewley: 1973, 252-3) ...nothing happened.
      1952 - ‘TO DO FULL JUSTICE’ again nothing happened.
      1953 - it was announced that its introduction would be delayed until the economy and the international position improves. Ref:  (quoted in Kewley: 1973, 252-3).  Yes, The Menzies gove. were indeed perfectionist at the percentage and figures game.
      1953 Menzies indicated it would cost an addition 100 million pounds per annum to fix those problem areas for the needy and this only be done by either increasing taxes or inflationary spending and people could not be asked to accept tax increase on such a large scale (Ref Kewley: 1973 254)…….Nothing was really done to help the sick, the elderly, nor the needy of Australian public.
      History (based on facts only)  tell us this was not an accurate portrayal and indeed, rather an array of distorted statements made by the gove. at the time.  An another contribution factor was that Menzies practice to the censoring of facts/figures/%’s. so as to kept most things away from the public ears and eyes. 

      This is typical of governments in the business to govern.  Certain gove.s will used which ever data or what ever data will suit their own agenda.  ABS. Centrerlink, Pensions etc …number added to…numbers and % subtracted….numbers divided >>>> 


      I say Ladies and gentlemen reading my say,  “ The Menzies speeches -  Don’t they sound rather like the type of speeches you hear from the to-days pollies”? 
      From Menzies through to Howard and now – same as, same as…..

    • Public Record says:

      06:11am | 01/03/10

      NEI, Same as, All Cashed up -  sockpuppets all.  For some reason best known to himself, sockpuppet NEI/SASA has sought to pretend there is misuse of unemployment data, and to pretend that I have dishonestly attempted to cover it up. 

      Well, I didn’t, and there isn’t.  There is no other measure of national employment and unemployment beyond the Labour Force Survey of the Australian Bureau of Statistics.  What there is, indeed, is a complex labour market, with more to that picture than the basic stock numbers of the Labour Force Survey.  We rely on those, rightly, as the starting point.

      As any trained analyst or later observer would know, there is a rich field of information in which to seek for understanding. The Australian Bureau of Statistics provides - as it ought to, and as national labour statisticians around the world do - a range of closely related and comparable surveys providing layers of detail on underemployment, unemployment, attachment ot the labour force, difficulties in finding jobs, on and on - as the ABS Labour Statistics: Concepts, Sources and Methods paper shows.

      There are also other bits and pieces from elsewhere, in government and in private enterprise: partial counts eg of benefit recipients, of job ads and so forth, either drawn from other purely administrative programmes or by private analysts looking murkily for hints of future direction. None of these offer anything like a complete view, and no-one seriously pretends that they count as “unemployment”. Again as the ABS Labour Statistics paper shows http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/mf/6102.0.55.001

      For some reason,  NEI/ACU/ASA has dragged in Menzies and a 60 year old review of pensions in the fog of his all-but incomprehensible posts.  Pensioner counts and pension payment policy have *nothing* to do with measures of employment and unemployment. 

      Despite digging up the ghost of Menzies, the NEI/ACU/ASA has claimed, without bothering to check, that governments use “another database system” when the current unemployment rate result doesn’t suit them.  He’s not troubled to point out what those other tricky numbers are or where they are from. For good reason: there is no other “database system”.

      Do analysts and ministers look for good news among the bad? No doubt they do, as far as the Survey data may allow. But then, the full labour force picture is always there for anyone at all to see, critique and report - all on the public record.

      Back on topic then: the original Punch article and 2003 Nicholson cartoon try to imply that the Disability Pension is a fiddle to bring down the unemployment number. It isn’t, it doesn’t and it can’t, for the reasons already explained by my first two posts abover - and by Persephone, bless her, earlier.

    • KD says:

      01:40pm | 28/02/10

      Another example of why Abbott should never be PM.  A quick emotive childish answer to a serious adult problem. Quick question: What percentage of disability pensioners do you estimate to be bludgers avoiding work….1% maybe 2% ...lets be generous and say 5%. So Abbott wants to effect 95% of disability pensioners because of the 5% might be bludging.  Talk about looking out for the exception to the rule, not the majority ... but thats the Liberal party’s form ... after all their track record shows a history of looking after the top 5% at the expense of the bottom 95%. Example you say…How about the Liberals generous offer to average Australians a couple of years back to allow them to put up to a extra $1 million into their superannuation at no charge…i don’t know about you but I certainly jumped on that offer (sarcasm). $11 Billion was deposited in that year costing the 95% how many Billion in taxes that could be used on Health, Pensioners, education. Thank goodness Workchoices was scrapped otherwise they would still have the rest of our vitals in a vice…hang on…late news ... Abbott wants to bring it back but with different details (different name).  The average person is not falling for all the Liberal stooges who are employed to comment on these articles, who can only nrepeat the problem and offer ill-thought-out band-aid solutions.

    • Angela Lloyd says:

      03:14pm | 28/02/10

      To KD
      Thank-you!

      Our system does need an overhaul BIG TIME. It really needs someone with a lot of guts to come out and tell the Australian people exactly how it is.  As far as the changed in the Work Choices scheme, not enough has been done to find it being scrapped, not really.  Also the franchising (sharing responsibilities e.g.councils more gov. depts.etc) of government has grown into a city in it self.  Gosh just think of the salaries/benifits superfunds paid out to goverment retirees, politicians.  Half a million is great for an older retied pollie BUT are not the same working pollies talking about cutting expenditure down.  Lets start at the top.  O.K. our pollies decided not to get them selves a 3% rise at one stage but then they did give themselves the rise.  A 3% of a single pollies salary sums up to a very high $$$ figure - you get where I’m coming from.. 
      Funny how the fat-cats don’t include themselves when curtailing our systems out-goings.  All of a sudden they appear not to be of our race - rather they see themselves above us.

    • Barry says:

      02:10pm | 28/02/10

      David, only you and idiots like you would prefer to live on disability pension.If any of you know someone who is cheating the system or pretending to be disabled it is your duty to inform Centrelink about them.
      If you don’t inform the Government, then you are worse then them.
      I am sure that there are people who abuse the system and we must deal with them harshly.
      I am on disability pension and I would give anything in the world to be able to go to work and have pain free life.
      You don’t have smallest idea what is like to depend on others and have your life reduced to existence rather living after normal productive life.
      On most occasions I agree with you but this time you are playing politics not common sense.
      Also the system should support and make more jobs available to disabled people who like or can work. No matter how little or lot we should have priority of employment in position that can be modified to allow as to work.
      And the work should not be reason for person to take extra medication to cope with the pain to be able to perform their duties.
      It is so hard to find a work and employer who would take us.Mostly there are some” charity “organisation who exploit us under pretence of caring and helping us.

    • ant says:

      02:20pm | 28/02/10

      This issue is one that needs to be debated sensibly, but I fear that Abbott is not the person to start a sensible debate.  Fact is, we desperately need a welfare overhaul in this country. 

      It’s scandalous that people living in McMansions qualify for middle-class welfare while old age pensioners can’t afford to eat meat some weeks.  The whole system needs to be re-built, so that those who really *need* welfare get sufficient, and those who do not NEED it get off the tax-payer’s tit.

      Our taxes should be used to ensure our oldies live warm, fed and dignified. They should not be used to buy X-Box games and on take-away food for balloon-cheeked kids.

    • All cashed up says:

      05:32pm | 28/02/10

      Ant: 

      You have only tipped the top of the ice-berge.  It appears only a selected few are entitled to massive Government $500,000.00 super-fund these-days however, that’s not to say those waiting to retire (from the same area)  will make sure they will live the dept.  hugely cashed up enough it won’t matter.

    • Public Record says:

      03:57pm | 28/02/10

      Barry: 
      Thanks for posting and Good Luck to you, mate.
      PR

    • Dag says:

      04:42pm | 28/02/10

      It is a very interesting read. My family could be classified as one which has turned welfare in to an art.

      My mother has been on the disability pension for years. When she initially was placed on the pension her condition was serious. She was bed bound and in constant change. Things have changed over time and while she still gets occasionally sick her condition is nothing like it previously was.

      My sister was diagnosed with a learning disability at an early age and has been on the pension since her late teens. She is highly active and works while being on the pension. With my sister work is not the issue rather daily living skills, she has become accustom to receiving large sums of money from both work and the pension while the real issues are never resolved.

      Another sister has massive personal issues and is totally withdrawn. She has never worked in her life and does little other then read. She has been bouncing around on the work for dole for years making excuses and recently she received a phone call from centerlink offering a carers pension to mind my mother. This was the worst thing to happen in my eyes. My sister needs help with her personal issues and to re enter society, instead she will get a free ride and when my mother passes away she will be confronted with her long standing issues which were never resolved.

      I have a degree and have worked since the age of 16. 5 years ago I was struck with a serious illness. Two years I worked with doctors unsure what was going on.

      After two years of the illness getting worse I collapsed and was bed bound for 2 months unable to do anything. At this time a diagnoses was made, I have an illness with no cure and limited known treatments to alleviate the symptoms. For the last 2.5 years I have been unemployed and on bouncing around in the health system.

      My goal has been to stabilise my health so i can continue working but its a hard road with no guarantee of success. For the last 6 months the disability support pension has been brought up by multiple groups assisting me. I have been reluctant to take. Its hard to articulate how I feel about this but I have seen how debilitating this service can be.

      When I look over the family and see three of us on the pension and myself potentially heading this way it leaves me cold. Something is going very wrong here. When centerlink are going out of their way to contact people who clearly have social interaction issues and handing them the carers pension, well it just leaves me cold.

      Clearly there are many that need this service and one day I might need to go down this road. However just from the experiences from within my own family I can say there is something seriously going wrong here.

    • Wilson says:

      06:05pm | 28/02/10

      Hey Furious, Couldn,t agree with you more, i know several. One in particular whos totally scammed the system for decades. Able bodied as me. Whats the problem with seriously weeding out the fakes , money saved could go to the genuine. Able bodied scammers can suppliment their income with cash work, as some do, whereas the genuine do it hard. Also agree with giving newly unemployed more initially ( they,ve earnt it ), reducing over time. Other western countries cut dole payments altogether after a certain period. I,m not suggesting that, although i find it hard to comprehend anyone of able body and mind genuinly unemployed for long periods ( years ) . Yes, we have to look after the less fortunate, but the social contract should include respecting more the real battlers who make the effort ,and ultimately pay these pensions.  And, hey, if someone on a dp can sit at a computer for hours each day, couldn,t they find work in that field?
      People don,t mind paying a reasonable amount of tax, as long as they feel they,re getting value for their money. Which i feel is less and less the case, particulary under this governmment. Rudd ccould well be surprised at the increase in respect he,d receive if he stood up and made some supposedly ” unpopular ” decisions. ( as Howard did )

    • James says:

      08:34am | 01/03/10

      If you have a disability that stops you from being able to work then you have nothing to worry about regarding your Disability Support Pension. I don’t understand why anyone would think that stricter controls on who is granted the DPP and continues on DPP is not a good idea. Abbott intends to target fraudsters of the system which there are many. I would think that most people wouldn’t have a problem with it if they have nothing to hide. Time for the frauds to be exposed and chased down. Some of you people need to pull your heads out of the sand and stop sounding like do gooders.

    • persephone says:

      09:49am | 01/03/10

      And the same applies to tax evasion as well, James.

      So why is Abbott going after disability fraudsters and not tax evaders?

      Because the first is an easy target - he doesn’t have the guts to take on the second.

      And the end result is that the vast majority of genuinely disabled people are vilified and made to feel they’re doing something shameful.

      Abbott, to be credible, needs to extend his remarks to cover defrauding of the government in general, not focus on one small, powerless group.

    • Andy says:

      10:20am | 01/03/10

      persephone- saying “Abbott, to be credible, needs to extend his remarks to cover defrauding of the government in general, not focus on one small, powerless group.”  The group Abbott is targeting are the ones who are defrauding the Government through DSP. They are not one small powerless group, the ones he’s targeting are the bludgers. No one else needs to feel feel targeted. I’m sure the honest, deserving people on DSP would not feel vilified, also they would like the bludgers found and made go and look for work. You and some others are living in fairy land if you think these people shouldn’t be caught and stopped. Go and get them Abbott because Rudd is not up to the task again.

    • persephone says:

      12:09pm | 01/03/10

      Andy

      Talk to some disabled pensioners. Ask if they feel that they’re vilified and seen as bludgers.

      Talk to some tax evaders. Ask them if they’re made to feel ashamed of their actions.

      Which group does the most harm to Australian society?

      Which group gets targetted?

      Both sides of politics need to have the balls to take on the group which is doing the most damage - and that’s not disabled pensioners, even the fraudulent ones.

    • Gerry says:

      09:19am | 01/03/10

      The biggest issue and one which is never discussed is the FACT - and yes it is a FACT - that most people over the age of 40 who have even a very mild disability will NOT be hired by employers. Being ABLE to work or WANTING to work is completey irrelevant if a person cannot get a job. Forcing people to apply for (insert number here) of jobs per year will achieve nothing.

    • Laura says:

      09:55am | 01/03/10

      @Gerry - Forcing people to apply for a certain amount of jobs maybe not be Abbotts approach? We are yet to hear what approach Abbott will have. What I do know is Rudd doesn’t have the guts to stand up to the people abusing this system. Refering to a mild disability is a bit generalised, could mean anything.

    • Public Record says:

      11:36am | 01/03/10

      Something wrong here somewhere. A lot of chatter and tattle tales about fraud here, but precious little hard information on how many cases there actually are.

      As noted earlier,  to get the DSP already requires (summarising)
      a) that you are unable to work for 15 hours or more per week because of illness, injury or disability for at least 2 years;
      b) that your disability/injury/illness usually requires a report from your treating doctor or specialist, and
      c) that you may also need to have a Job Capacity Assessment,
      which
      d) may result in referral to either Job Services Australia or a Disability Employment Service.

      Plenty of hoops to jump through there, in the face of it, to weed out false claims and to point the employable to work.  So do we have any data on how many DSP fraud cases over the past 10 years, or under the current rules? Has anyone of the posters claiming fraud en masse tried to find out?  It must be on the public record. 

      And if there is mass fraud, just as surely there must be some major problem in either a) Centrelink or b) with the doctors and job assessors. If there is mass fraud, one or the other must be failing visibly - plain as day.  So have those parts of the system been reviewed? Have any posters claiming mass fraud tried to find out? What was the result?  That, too, must be on the public record.

      As for “the innocent have nothing to fear” argument, won’t wash. Heard it all before. Poor cloak for poor policy, invariably.  Policy by anecdote and tattle tale simply will not do, either.

      Show us some hard, reliable, checkable reporting of DSP fraud levels, on the public record,  or let it go.

    • AdamC says:

      12:20pm | 01/03/10

      The problem is not so much with scammers or bludgers, it is with the overall settings of the system. Penbo is right that the welfare response to disability should have a back-to-work focus, with appropriate carrots and sticks to encourage participation by support recipients.

      It is simply human nature, where one is suffering from a taxing illness either physical or mental (or both, as is common) to be reluctant to work when one is being paid not to. While this is understandable, it simply creates a vicious cycle of work inexperience and welfare-dependency, which often spawns inter-generational Centrelink funded misery and marginalisation. Those arguing against any change to the system should remember that this experience is the current reality for many.

    • s says:

      01:12pm | 01/03/10

      To Public Record,
      Thank-you for reading my say - ‘same-as, same-as’.
      You are doing an excellent data analysis job and a job you should stick to.  Good on you for that.
      Unfortunately, pet, you have missed the point. Go to the law library or if you can get your hands on documents (not censored these days) that contain correspondence between our political parties, governments and other nations. This is our political history.  If you are able can speak to an expert that is authorised in the field on the subject of Political science/Law - an expert.  An academic such as a Dean or professor, to explain to you the Australian framework of the history on Politics and law in Australia. It would be very interesting for you to find out matters such as - The role Australia played Domestically and offshore,  you may gain some very valuable historical information. You may notice that they will have a starting point from the post-war years.  The founder of the liberal party hence the Menzies Government. And take you up to date as at today and beyond.

      Also on the note of talking about ‘The Menzies era’.  As legal/political prof’s always do and that is go back in time in the political or legal historical framework. This is call precedent.  This is a judgment that is authority for a case on similar facts:  a case that is authority for the legal/political principle contained in its decision.  So you see then, Chifley did, Menzies did it, Whitlam,  Fraser, Hawke, Keating. Howard,……>>>>>… 
      You have stated the word ‘fraud’. This is a of a criminal nature you speak about.  It’s much too much of a harsh and directional statement for you to claim, (others may agree that some certain activities as deemed to be ‘fraudulent’) -  but you are forgiven as you are not aware of the history I am talking about.

    • Public record says:

      03:11pm | 01/03/10

      Pffft. Patronising. And follow the thread. Others are claiming fraud, not I.

      As to your other broader points, though you have shifted ground again, there is nothing new here, even if it were relevant to the DSP debate.

      The job of politics is to meet the changing needs of the day and of the time. The habit of politicians and analysts is, often enough, to put the best interpretation on the information at hand.  None of us need to be told that, or dragged back to Menzies to “get it”. We all “get it”, and we “got it” the first time.

    • Public Record says:

      02:08pm | 01/03/10

      Turning back to the original article, the core of which lies in two factoids.

      Firstly, according to The Punch, the number of people on the Disability Support Pension has been rising at “an incredible rate”, rising “from 600,000 in 1998 to 700,000 a decade later” - 2008, presumably. 

      Secondly, The Punch repeated, in a mealy-mouthed way, that Mr Abbott “estimated or guesstimated that around one-third of the 700,000 people receiving this pension had what he called “less serious medical conditions” and should be forced to apply for at least two jobs a year, and have annual medical assessments to monitor their condition.”

      OK, let’s run a ruler over these, if we can.

      The first is all the work of a Punch staffer, with the resources of News Ltd to call upon. But let’s look for ourselves.

      The ABS publication Australian Demographic Statistics (3101.0) shows us that population rose from 18.8 million in 1998 to 21.4 million in 2008. Increase? Well, its simple maths - about 14%. Now then. How much did the DSP count rise over the same period? Why, from 600,000 to 700,000, assuming the numbers are right. That’s a rise of about 100,000 or 17% over 10 years. Incredible rate? Hardly!  It’s rising barely faster than the overall increase in population, in a group more likely to be part of our ageing population.

      This won’t do at all. All the resources of News Ltd, and the best The Punch can do is a wild over-statement. 

      So, what about the DSP information, then? Hmm. Time for a little more digging….

    • Gerry says:

      02:39pm | 01/03/10

      Yes - the focus should be “back to work” ..... unfortunately there is no work available for most ... even 100% fit and able bodied with university degrees can find gaining employment difficult at times ...

    • Public Record says:

      02:44pm | 01/03/10

      Now to the claims by Mr Abbott, who plumped, by whatever means, for about 1/3rd of disability pensioners having “less serious medical conditions”. Whatever he means, he thinks about 230,000 people in 2008 should have had annual medical checks and applied for 2 jobs a year.

      But we already know that the DSP already has both medical checks and job assessments. So what does he mean? These checks don’t work? Is his guesstimate anything like right? Lets see if we can check. Where to start? Why not with the administering agency, the Department of Families, Housing, Community Services and Indigenous Affairs. 

      “Number on DSP, 2008-2009: 757,118.”
      “Percentage reporting some earnings:  9.2%”, “consistent with previous trends”
      “Control of incorrect payment and fraud—accuracy of administered outlays (total dollars correctly paid) as measured by the Random Sample Survey: 97.8%” (against an aim of “better than 95%”) About 2.2% incorrect or fraud, then.
      Source: Annual Report 2008–2009 http://www.fahcsia.gov.au/about/publicationsarticles/corp/Documents/2009_Annual_Report/07_2.htm

      Then there are annual Departmental papers, like Characteristics of Disability Support Pension Recipients June 2008 .  We can’t tell from the summaries how severe, but for example, 28% were suffering psychological and psychiatric conditions. Of the 51,000 who ceased DSP in the year to Jun 2008, while 45% simply ceased to be elible for whatever reason, almost half, 48%, were so old they exited to the Age Pension! At June 2008 there were 61,000 who had not been on DSP in June the year before, about 8.6% of those on DSP. Of those, 44% had not been been on any income support previously. 
      Source: http://www.facs.gov.au/sa/disability/pubs/policy/DSP_rpt_2008/Pages/default.aspx

      So a few minutes of easily found reading shows the total in the article was about right. But at about 760,000 last year, it is certainly not growing at an “incredible rate”. At around a net 10,000 a year it is consistent with total population growth.  We know that about 9% achieve some earnings. We still don’t know how many could work, or have “less serious” conditions. We already know such things are tested for, though. We also know the level of payment error or fraud is rather low, at about 2.2% of payments.

      Lastly, a different viewpoint. “Not being employed was a source of anguish for at least half of the participants, especially the younger articipants.”
      UNSW Social Policy Research Centre/Disability Support Pension New Customer Focus Groups 2005
      http://www.sprc.unsw.edu.au/media/File/Report4_05_DSP_FocusGroups.pdf

      A pretty thin piece of work then. At least neither The Punch nor Abbott tried to claim high counts of DSP fraud. No credit to them at all that they failed to think about the existing provisions for medical and work tests. Very discreditable exaggeration to claim an “incredible growth rate”.

    • Marcus L'Estrange says:

      08:20pm | 04/03/10

      ‘Hold the dole, put reforming ideas to work’, David Penberthy, 27/2/2010, has completely missed the point. Even if the whole 700,000 Disability Support Pension recipients threw of their crutches, various illnesses etc and had the greatest surge of work ethic, it wouldn’t make much difference at all.

        We have a real unemployment figure of 2 million (1.75 million on the six dole payments) according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics ‘Persons not in the labour force’ survey, chasing around 100,000 vacancies. No one in their right mind should take any notice of the monthly ‘Labour Force’ survey (600,000 unemployed), which results from a political definition of unemployment, not an actuarial one. And I haven’t even added in the growing army of underemployed. 

        I wonder what the legendary I F Stone would make of the cow dung; seriously flawed OECD approved recommendations for collecting unemployment figures in its member countries? The hidden rate of unemployed has been suppressed for the past 30 years by so-called independent Australian economists & media commentators, due mainly to their love affair with all things OECD. What a cop out. The hidden rate of unemployment is the biggest single story in Australian public life, of the past 30 years. Mr. Latham, Abbott and Penberthy should hang their heads in shame for not doing even the basic research.

    • Public Record says:

      08:47pm | 05/03/10

      “political definition of unemployment”? Absolute nonsense. The Labour Force Survey unemployment measure is a well-understood, world-standard economic measure, wholly consistent with unemployment as measured in *every* like country in the world. Currently around 620,000.

      “growing army of underemployed” The underemployed are a rather different indication of degree of slack in the labour market -  employed wanting to work more hours, in essence. Measured by the Labour Force Survey once a quarter for a number of years now.

      Underemployment and labour underutilisation have been debated by labour economists for a decades. The ABS counts were developed for comparability with international practice and in consultation with Australian analysts. The underemployment rate, which tracked between 6% and 7% over the 8 years to 2008, rose to around 7.8% over 2009 as the GFC bit but employers retained their labour on shorter working hours - and a dashed good thing too.

      Persons Not in the Labour Force are broadly those that had no job, and did not look for work: the whole point is to find information about the economicallty *inactive* and eg how likely they might be to become active. 

      As for “hidden rate of unemployed has been suppressed for the past 30 years”, totally uninformed and completely incorrect.

      Discussions about the nature and extent of marginal attachment to the labour force (unhelpfully and misleadlingly referred to as “hidden unemployed”) have exercised labour statisticians and economists for a good many decades now, and the range of opinion is still considerable.  Still, the ABS labour surveys have long provided a range of measures, consistent with the most established views.

      The plain fact is, at the last annual survey in Sep 2008, of the 5.5 million persons then Not in the Labour Force,  about 1.2 million wanted to work to some degree. To what degree? That’s the big question.  Well of those, just 820,000 were regarded as marginally attached, having either actively looked for work; or having been available for work within the next month. 

      And of that 820,000, only about 70,000 had actively looked for work, and only about 74,000 were regarded as discouraged job seekers.  So at worst, there are about 144,000 persons who might, just might, if their personal circumstances were just right, become actively unemployed. This whole carefully designed pattern of related measures is readily available, well documented, and free to all, on line.

      It is utterly mischiveous to pretend that there is an army of 1.4 million unemployed being hidden.  There isn’t.  It is utterly mischiveous to pretend that the standard measure of unemployment is wrong, and dishonest to pretend that it is politically defined.  It isn’t.

      So Mr L’Estrange is trying to have a bit of a lend of us, though from the way he’s written, sounds like he’s been flogging this poor old nag for some time. I imagine my summary is not the first time he’s been told that he is utterly mistaken.  But then, the facts are all there - on the public record.

    • Timmo says:

      08:31am | 05/03/10

      All the Negative people will be right with their opinions until they have some type of disability come to them out of the workplace or for some other reason. Then, guess what!, they will be down there at centerlink filling in their forms with the rest. Down to the doctors getting their evidence to claim. It’s just so easy to make these comments until it happens to you. I can picture those hands sticking out now. The fact is people that if you get say a work injury or assault in the workplace and lose the use of a limb or back etc and end up in the workers comp. system, what you will find after a few years on the compo while having surgery that you will have to come off compo at sometime and then guess what?, the government will not stand for you if you try to become re-employed. You will be left on the dole for years with no re-training to suit your condition. Employers don’t want to know about compo claims. You have to tell them when applying for employment that you have had a compo history otherwise you will not be able to claim for any further problems that may occur. So you become bacically unemployable. There are too many able bodied people out there to take the jobs so why should they bother employing people with disabilities. And rightly so for them unless they are prepared to give people a go. It’s very very difficult for anyone to claim disability support pension, not as easy as you may think.
          And yes, everybody, you will have the suicidal thoughts and lack confidence as you are turned down constantly, maybe you just might do the act of violence against youself because of it. No one is immune from this. So, get your facts straight. There are people who abuse any system like some who come to queensland from the southern states to retire, tie up all their assets in some slush fund and apply and get a commonwealth health care card so they can get their dental and pharma. either free or at less cost while being wealthy enough to pay. Yes, now if there is any bludging or loopholes to close, that would be one of them. Now i wouldn’t suppose any of you good people would come into that catagory, would I.?

    • Sharon Matthews says:

      06:52pm | 02/07/10

      The media needs to stop perpetuating the myth that all people who receive welfare are bludgers and are ripping off taxpayers. I was a taxpayer for 35 years. I have developed osteoarthritis in the spine, knees, hips and ankle. I also have a double scoliosis in my spine, one in the top and the other in the lumbar area. I am unable to stand for more than 10 minutes in one place, cannot climb stairs, carry groceries, use public transport with difficulty and suffer from chronic pain. I applied for the DSP and was turned down, told that I could work 15-22 hours a week. I have applied for many part time jobs in the last 2 years and managed to get only 3 interviews. I am unable to work 5 days a week and would need a part time job where I worked one day on and one day off. If I do activities two days in a row, I am usually in so much pain on the third day that I cannot move. Its not easy to get the DSP. I’m sure that there are some people who receive it who could possibly work. If the newstart allowance gave people the same rate as a pension, then there would not be so many people applying for the DSP. Currently the newstart allowance is about $230 less per fortnight than a pension. Yet pensioners complain that they cant live on their pension. They should try living on newstart allowance. Please dont tar everyone with the same brush. Some of us actually are disabled. And isnt one point of a democracy to look after others who need assistance?

    • MargaritaBolton says:

      08:53pm | 11/08/10

      When you are in the corner and have got no money to get out from that point, you will need to take the business loans. Because that should aid you for sure. I take collateral loan every time I need and feel myself fine because of that.

    • ton wild says:

      06:22pm | 18/01/11

      I am 55. After full-time working since I was 16 I have been struck down with primary progressive multiple sclerosis. I have had to leave w ell paid job with super and benefits etc.  I got a redundancy and was told to wait 15months by centrelink before I could get the disability support pension. my wife works and clears $600 a week and centrelink are about to give me a pension of $180 a week. I don’t think I am a bludger. I’d like to woprk but cant. the pension will pay for groceries and if we scrimp we’ll pay our bills. we live frugally, don’t drink or smoke or go out. when did so many australians become so heartless and mean spirited to the less fortunate in our society. sometimes life deals some awful blows and everyday people like me and my wife need some form of help. yes, there are probably bludgers and scammers but there are also many many people whose life has been devastated by illness and unforunate circumstances. what should we do.

    • Narelle Works says:

      06:02am | 11/05/11

      I’m one of the grateful people on DSP who could prattle on about the battle I had to get DSP and then keep it.  Since I can only guess at what others go through I am the last person to point at someone and say “You have no right to be on this benefit or get that assistance” because I don’t know their personal history.  I don’t know what they’ve done to get to the point where they can get out of bed every day and face the world. A lot of change has to happen to be ‘happy’ with living below the poverty line for years.  I defy anyone who has had a decent paying job to then live on a benefit and do it easily and keep your self-esteem and anger in check.  Do that when someone with a job that pays at least twice what you are getting (and often a hell of a lot more than $18,000 a year) how lucky you are to have battled to get the pension in the first place and then sweat on paying bills that you’ve had to pare down to the absolute minimum. Add whatever disability or chronic illness you may have while being told how lucky you are to have $10 off this bill, etc and if you are lucky enough to get extra help to get through the day,  that you should be out there paying tax like they are.  I might add that the $10 off here and there is to help with the GST but it never was enough to cover that. Why the unemployed don’t get that kind of help I don’t know. But that’s another story.

      FYI: I worked, my ex still works, my 3 children work, one even has a child (not on welfare!) my mother worked before and after us kids, my Dad worked. In fact the work ethic is strong in both sides of my family.  That’s probably why I’m having a hard time accepting my inability to work and having to be on DSP.

      All that aside can you please tell me why the high and mighty of you here point your fingers but do nothing.  “I know several on disability…”  Then dob them in. The more reports received by Centrelink about a particular person the more likely they are to investigate. Resources being what they are, it may take a year or two but advice from Centrelink letting the wrongdoer know they are being watched can often be enough. Else they will be prosecuted if the investigation proves they are fraudulent. So do your part and stop grizzling and griping unless you are prepared to put up or shut up.

      I’m sick to death of being tarred with the same brush as those perceived as wroughting the system no matter how they do it.  I wonder if someone pointed at you at work and decided you were too lazy and should be sacked if you’d be grateful for it, even if it were only partly true.  What if you were going to be sacked for stealing even if you only rang your partner once, or looked at a non-website once or pinched a pen and took it home ‘accidentally’.  I’m not saying that fraud compares but perception plays as much in this as does the reality.

      Just an aside. I’m sure there were many on DSP who gave to the Victorian Bushfire Appeal, Queensland Floods and other major disasters while still struggling to make ends meet.

    • Shauna says:

      06:40pm | 10/06/11

      This media beatup is irresponsible.  Struggling for years with mental illness, never fitting into mainstream workplaces, my parents are gullible enough to believe media beatups on welfare, yet they are wealthier than most DT readers.  Yes.  I’m the rich kid who’s a bit mental, bit different, who was spurned by her family and lives in public housing because her family didn’t assist her when she has been unable to work.  So my family gets richer by not doing its duty, and in turn their increasing weatlh is subsidised by me relying on society instead of them.

    • Janel Niesborella says:

      12:31pm | 29/06/11

      The quite heart of your writing while appearing reasonable originally, did not settle properly with me personally after some time. Someplace throughout the sentences you truly managed to create me a believer but only for a short while. I nevertheless have got a dilemma with your leaps in logic and you may do nicely to fill in those breaks. In the event you in fact can accomplish that, I could surely be fascinated.

    • Jacqui Paulson says:

      09:57pm | 30/07/11

      It always amazes me how people can really think that just over $300 per week is making it. Why would you settle for not even 1/2 weeks wages if you could work for more? Also who on earth thinks it is easy to get the DSP? You have to prove your conditions with medical evidence, you are reviewed and you are assessed to determine if you can work. If somebody is ripping off the system, then so is their doctor, their friends and the assessor. So don’t tell me how many people are ripping it off. If you know somebody then dob them in, don’t complain to us about it. As for the rest of us who have no choice but to live restricted lives that don’t allow us to live freely as other people do, who don’t have enough insurance to support us so that we are forced to live on Welfare and who have probably spent our lives, working and supporting the community that is now helping us, it is only fair that the wealthy help the poor, the strong support the weak and our tax system is designed to enable this to happen without any harm to the average person.

    • Di Smith says:

      01:53pm | 10/02/12

      Apparently If you do not speak english - you are immediantly qualified as ” disabled ” and put on the pension. I myself can’t get it with multiple sclerosis - diagnosed for 13 yrs. Unemployable - as uninsurable for public liability if my legs stopped walking and i fell onto the customer et , poor balance and verbal slurring, pain, shakes etc. They tell me I can work 15 hrs a week - where they do not say.And how to live on $275 before tax and costs to get there, clothes for work, makup hair etc.  So I work for myself and earn less the the dole. Born and bred here.

      But a muzza mumma in her Burka spitting on you In the street - shes on it guaranteed. PATHETIC!!

      This is why the numbers have increased so much - the boaties and muzzas we pay to be here using us and changing our country. No xmas carols - their children prefer to wear a burka and will not tolerate it. 

      Australia is going to the crapper and thanks to those running this place!!

    • Sharon says:

      01:06am | 01/03/12

      This is my testimony, I was living in the darkness and I couldn’t move forward or gain anything in life such as friends, money, promotion, & especially love. So I came to Dr. Ogun and he worked his money ritual like nothing I had ever seen in my life . I have my live back and I’m happy now and free. I had been to so many spell caster for help but it was Dr. Ogun he was the one who set me free I love this man. I trust Dr. Ogun don’t worry you are safe in his hands contact him through his email address: Templeofloveandmoney@gmail.com

    • Throwing Stones says:

      12:30am | 27/03/12

      If there are people out there minding their own business “living the dream,” then I think it’s a bit rich for people to have a go at them.  Sure some may be taking advantage of this generous country of ours, but it’s better than having these poor people starving in the streets.  This is a great country we live in here where we look after each other, and we musn’t ever forget that.  How about people that DO work but become Bankrupt because they can’t manage their finances? What happens to all THAT money? The creditors have to kiss that goodbye? Yes! Well in my books, that’s no better than people “using the system.” Here’s a thought: Before you judge some else, think about what YOU’VE done.

    • Alex says:

      09:36am | 01/04/12

      Hello everyone, I am sorry if I am repeating what anyone else has said as I haven’t read all the arguments . Im a doctor and from our point of view, there are many chronic diseases that we depend on what the patient says to diagnose them. It makes me sick when people rip off the system because they take away money from people that really need. However, I would not feel comfortable as a doctor making the call that someone is lieing about their condition.  I have been to Canada and it is horrible seeing so many homeless people on the street. On the other hand , people that do not participate in society and do not work have increased incidence of mental illnesses. Therefore I would vote for a government that does not intent to make the criteria more stringent, but a government that is willing to invest money in slowly integrating people with less severe disabilities into society (which is best for everyone). Also, this issue should not overshadow other important economic, human rights and environmental issues when you vote, in my opinion. Our tax money is being misused in many ways that is easier to police then with this particular issue. Another thing to consider is that a lot of the people that lie about medical conditions to go on the disability pension are substance abuses/alcoholics or become this after years of not working which are also recognized as psychiatric illnesses themselves. It is difficult to cut their pensions because they will become homeless. Has anyone done a calculation about how much money the average working Australian gives to fraudulent disability claims a year? I did one and if Abbout is right ( I’d have to see how they came up with this 1/3 of 700 000 figure)  then it still isn’t too much money. I’m happy to pay it knowing that I will live in a society where people that are really sick don’t get denied disability pension based on stringent criteria and that our crime rates will possibly be lower.

    • sick and tired says:

      09:11am | 04/04/12

      Hi, i just wanted to say that whilst yes there are a few who bludge, but for those who truly need the pension it is not desirable. I currently spend $90 a week on medication alone, not including specialist bills and i get $6 a week from centrelink for my medical allowance; it’s a joke! I frequently go without medical attention that I need because the cost is too high. The real issue is that for a lot of disabled people the cost of medical care factored in with their limited ability to work (if they have any) prevents them from working as the hours they can work just wont cover the cost of living.
      There is also the issue that there are people with mental illnesses in this country who would be able to improve their situation but the Labor government cut the budget so that you can only get 12 rebated psych sessions. This is not enough for people who are debilitated by their condition, who with more access to mental health care would be able to overcome their issues so they can join the workforce

    • michaelt says:

      09:08am | 13/04/12

      excellent points altogether, you just gained a brand new reader. What would you suggest about your post that you made some days ago’ Any positive’
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    • Robin Antrobus says:

      06:18am | 29/04/12

      Abbott will start closing down fraudsters and then someone in a office that does not even know you will shut off your benefit. It looks shiny up front but abbott and the libs despise the bottom earners. Let them eat cake I can hear abbott saying. If you earn low,do not vote for abbott. All th years Howard and costello were in,disability was the pension that got nothing. Rudd was the man that bought us up close to the poverty line,we still struggle,as do low wage earners. These abbott will target.

 

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Protecting the Barrier Reef is the Fin end of the wedge

Protecting the Barrier Reef is the Fin end of the wedge

When you take on a job like being Environment Minister there’s some hits you can see coming. …

ICB: Is white bread the worst thing since sliced bread?

ICB: Is white bread the worst thing since sliced bread?

Welcome to this week’s I Call Bullshit column. It’s a regular column that looks at skulduggery…

Sometimes, you’ve just got to stick it to the bloody ref

Sometimes, you’ve just got to stick it to the bloody ref

We are taught early in life that we should not question authority. We must listen to our parents, our…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

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