When the curtain is finally drawn on the Rudd / Gillard / (perhaps again Rudd) Government the eulogy concerning the Defence of the Realm will not be flattering. To think that this eulogy had all the hallmarks of a great beginning and yet ended so soon is nothing short of a Grecian tragedy.

Alas, this mess is going to take at least four years to tidy up, Thermopylae

Alas Pericles will offer no stirring funeral oration nor talk of monuments written in stone or in the hearts of men. This period of Defence policy will be relegated to history, remembered as a time of political expediency at the price of military capability, something Spartan King Leonidas knew a thing or two about at the battle of Thermopylae.

The Eulogy will tell the story of a Government that began with such promise, committed to a 3 per cent annual real increase in the Defence budget to 2017-18 (a commitment they made publicly 38 times) and to a Defence White Paper that continued the course towards the Asia/Pacific century.

A focus on Force 2030 with serious hitting power: new submarines with land attack weapons, fifth generation fighter squadrons, complete replacement of all surface combatant vessels and an amphibious capability able to deploy a hardened Brigade of soldiers with full enablers to literally anywhere on the planet. It was a plan that continued the alignment with the US towards our region and contained a force capable of doing a greater amount of alliance heavy lifting.

Unfortunately the 2009 White Paper sowed the seeds of its own destruction with its paucity of financial detail and lack of Government commitment. This was exacerbated with a complete lack of annual acquisition approvals, a failure of the National Security Committee (NSC) of Cabinet to at times even meet, and since 2008, $22 billion of Defence capability cuts, deferrals or absorptions with only a 0.9 per cent pa real increase in the Defence budget. Defence spending as a percentage of GDP is now only 1.59 per cent, the lowest since 1938 when it was 1.55 per cent.

The seed of Defence’s demise was then trampled underfoot by a revolving door of Ministers, 15 reshuffles in the portfolio, on average a change every four months. This includes three Ministers for Defence and all but one current Minister now holds other onerous portfolio responsibilities on top of Defence. It is widely acknowledged that it takes a minimum of 18 months to read into the portfolio if you have no background in Defence to begin to grasp its scope.

This is not surprising considering its complexity with 103,000 serving members, reservists, contractors and bureaucrats, 3,200 combat troops on multiple overseas operations, a budget over $24 billion, multiple agencies and intelligence functions and a substantial foreign affairs function by virtue of Defence’s global influence and links. This means that each of the preceding Defence Ministers have never had the time to fully understand the portfolio. Unfortunately, their history of decision making highlights this reality.

The Defence Capability Plan, the industry’s bible on acquisition, remains a loose collection of excel spreadsheets with no electronic modelling tool to link it to the White Paper, to the classified Australian Military Strategy document, to the NSC approval process or to the capability of industry.

There is no single defence industry portal to allow industry to clearly see what and when projects will be approved and Government has no capacity to understand the impact of its decisions on industry.

The Government has absolutely no idea what the impact will be on industry from the two year deferral of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). Numerous Australian companies, encouraged by Government to sign up to the JSF supply chain will now be fundamentally impacted; some may go to the wall. How does the Coalition know this?

We have just finished our defence industry roundtable consultations in every State and Territory connecting with primes and hundreds of small to medium defence companies. Their comments reflecting the above have been universally consistent, as has the comment of “why hasn’t the Government engaged with industry in the same open round table manner?”

To be fair to the Minister for Defence Procurement, he is both a decent man and a hard working Minister, but he’s also the Minister for Home Affairs and with over 300 boats and 17,000 irregular maritime arrivals, his attention is elsewhere.

The greatest disappointment is not that Labor’s Defence legacy will be held in such contempt, but that the defence of the realm, the most fundamental responsibility of federal government has been found wanting.

The line of “we won’t cut front line capability” whilst simultaneously cutting, deferring and absorbing a total of $22 billion from the portfolio over the term can’t be believed. It is pure fantasy.

Decades from now, students of history will read Labor’s Defence eulogy, written by others no doubt using different words. It will be sombre reading. There will be no vainglorious victory over the Persian Army after Thermopylae, just the realisation that it took the next Government over a decade to repair the mistakes of the last four years of Labor.

Most commented

80 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Against the Man says:

      06:09am | 22/06/12

      I told you Labor has become the UnAustralian Party!

      Enjoy this beggers smile

      Timeline of boat disasters

      February 2012

      At least eight drown after a boat capsizes near Malaysia

      December 2011

      Up to 200 die when boat heading from Indonesia to Australia sinks

      November 2011

      Up to 20 killed when boat capsizes off Java, Indonesia

      December 2010

      Christmas Island boat crash claims 50 lives, including babies and children

      November 2010

      Boat with 97 people on board goes missing

      May 2010

      5 Sri Lankans drown off the Cocos Islands

      October 2009

      Asylum boat with 105 Hazaras on board believed to have vanished between Indonesia and Australia

      April 2009

      5 Afghan asylum seekers die when their boat explodes

      A list of suspected asylum-seeker boat arrivals in 2012

      1 - Jan 17 - 74 passengers, two crew - east-northeast of Christmas Island
      2 - Jan 19 - 56 passengers, two crew - northeast of Christmas Island
      3 - Feb 11 - 125 passengers, two crew - north of Christmas Island
      4 - Feb 15 - 121 passengers, six crew - north-northwest of Ashmore Islands
      5 - Feb 15 - 69 passengers, two crew - northwest of Christmas Island
      6 - Feb 16 - 63 passengers, two crew - north-northeast of Christmas Island
      7 - Feb 17 - 71 passengers - west of Christmas Island
      8 - Feb 17 - 79 passengers, two crew - northwest of Christmas Island
      9 - Feb 20 - 143 passengers, four crew - north of Christmas Island
      10 - Feb 21 - 98 passengers, two crew - north of Christmas Island
      11 - Feb 21 - 96 passengers, two crew - north of Christmas Island
      12 - Mar 6 - 26 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      13 - Mar 13 - 34 passengers, three crew - northeast of Ashmore Reef
      14 - Mar 23 - 50 passengers, two crew - south-southeast of Ashmore Islands
      15 - Apr 1 - 43 passengers, two crew - north of Tiwi Islands
      16 - Apr 3 - 81 passengers, three crew - northwest of Ashmore Islands
      17 - Apr 5 - 71 passengers - northeast of Scott Reef
      18 - Apr 6 - 49 passengers, four crew - north of Ashmore Islands
      19 - Apr 10 - 99 passengers - west of Christmas Island
      20 - Apr 12 - 75 passengers, two crew - northeast of Christmas Island
      21 - Apr 14 - 19 passengers - north of Christmas Island
      22 - Apr 18 - 55 passengers, two crew - southwest of Browse Island
      23 - Apr 25 - 50 passengers, two crew - southwest of Ashmore Islands
      24 - Apr 27 - 60 passengers - northwest of Ashmore Islands
      25 - Apr 29 - 164 passengers, six crew - north-northwest of Christmas Island
      26 - Apr 30 - 27 passengers - north of Christmas Island
      27 - May 6 - 103 passengers, two crew - north of Christmas Island
      28 - May 6 - 138 passengers - north of Christmas Island
      29 - May 6 - 64 passengers, four crew - north of Ashmore Islands
      30 - May 10 - 60 passengers - north-northwest of Ashmore Islands
      31 - May 10 - 99 passengers, two crew - northeast of Christmas Island
      32 - May 11 - 84 passengers - west of Christmas Island
      33 - May 14 - 121 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      34 - May 18 - 68 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      35 - May 20 - 175 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      36 - May 20 - 44 passengers - west-southwest of Christmas Island
      37 - May 21 - 38 passengers - north of Christmas Island
      38 - May 28 - 88 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      39 - May 30 - 40 passengers - Cocos (Keeling) Islands
      40 - June 1 - four passengers, two crew - east-northeast of Ashmore Islands
      41 - June 2 - 87 passengers, two crew - northwest of Christmas Island
      42 - June 2 - 150 passengers - north of Christmas Island
      43 - June 3 - 85 passengers, three crew - northwest of Christmas Island
      44 - June 5 - 49 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      45 - June 7 - 23 passengers, two crew - west-southwest of Ashmore Islands
      46 - June 9 - 100 passengers, two crew - northeast of Christmas Island
      47 - June 9 - 24 passengers, three crew - southwest of Ashmore Islands
      48 - June 9 - 32 passengers - Cocos (Keeling) Islands
      49 - June 10 - 38 passengers, two crew - north-northwest of Christmas Island
      50 - June 11 - 110 passengers - northeast of Christmas Island
      51 - June 12 - 25 passengers, three crew - northeast of Ashmore Islands
      52 - June 12 - 72 passengers, two crew - north of Christmas Island
      53 - June 13 - 35 passengers - Cocos (Keeling) Island
      54 - June 15 - 35 passengers, one crew - east of North Scott Reef
      55 - June 20 - 52 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      56 - June 20 - 69 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island
      57 - June 21 - 117 passengers - northwest of Christmas Island

      No border policy still? Labor really doesn’t care about us smile

    • Ray says:

      07:41am | 22/06/12

      All Tony Abbot’s fault!
      I am not sure how it is his fault but I am sure he is to blame.

    • Samantha says:

      08:03am | 22/06/12

      Hi ATM apparently I’m you! Ha no one sent me a memo about that hehehe Do you think Chong will turn up today?

      Great list but maybe you posted it under the wrong article but I agree the asylum seeker issue has blown up for Labor. In regards to Labors’s defence legacy, this is just more of what makes Labor as incompetent as ever. A government without a clear and focus policy making team will never be able to deliver the goods. Julia doesn’t care and she never will.

    • yobogod says:

      08:09am | 22/06/12

      2008 Global Financial Crisis.  I think you dropped this ...**hands Against the Man his ass**

    • TChong says:

      08:31am | 22/06/12

      Hi AtM/ Samantha
      Yes I knew you’d turn up
      AtM must be wearing cottontails this morning.
              wink

    • Rick says:

      08:41am | 22/06/12

      That’s what is happening when true democracy in which only the people are sovereign is denied .....“SHIT HAPPENS” and more of it will keep happening regardless of which mob who is in power.

      Direct democracy is a way to check political power. It allows benevolent and enlightened citizens to oppose laws made by evil politicians.

      In Switzerland, the people are the supreme political authority with many political rights.

      There is no opposition party, no presidential veto, and no strict party discipline and no waste of money for their mates, enough money to call a referendum for the good causes.

    • acotrel says:

      09:15am | 22/06/12

      @Ray
      Let me tell you why it is Tony Abbott’s fault.  He opposed the legislation which would have permitted offshore processing ANYWHERE including Nauru,  He wanted to force a return away from Malaysia to the ‘Pacific Solution’ to cover John Howard’s arse, and discredit the Labor government. What happened on Nauru was ILLEGAL.  Howard denied asylum seekers access to Australian courts to be shown just cause for their imprisonment - a basic human right in all western democracies.  Last year the High Court of Australia handed down the decision that asylum seekers have the right to access the courts.  What happened on Nauru can never happen again - Abbott is a wanker !

    • Stan says:

      10:15am | 22/06/12

      No border policy still? Labor really doesn’t care about us and
      Spot on Rick under a DIRECT DEMOCRACY we would have a border and we would have true servants of the people and a law to protect us against the unproductive devil advocates who are making a mockery of the working families by sucking their blood.

      Why devil advocates or spin doctors?
      can anyone tell me what do they produce for the country and what are their contributions while the more the working families are working the more they pay taxes and the worse they are, no wonder that the country is deficient and our debt is growing like a mushroom.

    • dovif says:

      11:16am | 22/06/12

      acotrel

      You seem to have a really bad memory, the east timor solution was canned because Gillard announced it, without the east timor government knowing anything about it or agreeing with it

      The Malaysian solution actually passed parliament, but Gillard and Bowen was so incompetant that it was found to be illegal and kicked out of the high coart, it has nothing to do with Abbott, except that Abbott and the liberals had one that worked and Gillard went and stuffed it up

      Do you see the trend yet

      Pacific solution - stuffed up by gillard
      East Timor solution - stuffed up by gillard
      Malaysian solution - stuffed up by gillard

    • Don King says:

      11:28am | 22/06/12

      TChong I’ve been posting here for some time. Your comments yesterday show no respect to people who have been through a concentration camp. Some lines once crossed spark a point of no return. It doesn’t add weight or is relevant to your arguement. Further comments by you hold no weight or meaning in my book, unformed thoughts and negative use of ideas by you represent a sad and hopeless cause.

    • puppet detector says:

      11:35am | 22/06/12

      Not rocket science
      atm = samantha

    • Lamb Chop and Charlie Horse says:

      11:51am | 22/06/12

      looks like Samantha might have to compete with another puppet who has a fascination with all things atm. Coincidence?

      “Don King says:
      John a Neve as a liar yourself I doubt you can comment on this issue. I remember your comments attacking AtM’s niece.”

      Sound familiar?
      You decide, I already have.

    • fml says:

      12:01pm | 22/06/12

      Stan,

      What makes you think that a direct democracy will give you the policy you want?

      You think you are going to get a 66% majority that you would need to stop all asylum seekers?

      If it is going to be like switzerland only constitutional changes are mandatory, how will you get a majority of 66% on a non-mandatory vote when most people would probably be too apathetic to go and vote?

    • Samantha says:

      12:25pm | 22/06/12

      Poor TChong talking to himself and giving up all pretence. I like it when things sort themselves out smile

    • The Real Max from Gosford! says:

      12:43pm | 22/06/12

      TChong your anti-semetic ways have caught up to you! You have been defined by your own words and what a coward to blame others for your own comments. Grow a pair, man up and apologise!

    • Steve Putnam says:

      04:13pm | 22/06/12

      You think you do your cause service by making your Schadenfreude public like this?

    • Against the Man says:

      08:31pm | 22/06/12

      @ Samantha - I wanted to highlight that Labor just jumps from problem to problem with no solution for anything!

      @ TChong - With all this time nursing your paranoia (pun intended) are you still working for the ALP? You’re barking up the wrong tree buddy but if it helps you get through the day to assume everyone is me, go for it, all I can say is that I’m the least of your worries…........smile

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      06:56am | 22/06/12

      Coalition is the pot calling the kettle black. Signing Australia up to the JSF was Howard’s baby, along two useless wars costing 30 billion dollars that took money away from the purchase of capital equipment, fuel hungry Abrams tanks and useless Seasprite helicopters.
      Defence policies I’d like to see:
      1. Recognition that the Indian Ocean, Indonesian archipeligo, South Pacific Ocean and Southern Ocean are Australia’s main strategic interests.
      2. Establishment of naval bases at Heard Island, Christmas Island, Norfolk Island.
      3. Establishment of a cold weather warfare training school at Heard Island.
      4. Shipbuilding industry exempt from all government taxes.
      5. Compulsory peacetime conscription of all eligible 18 year olds for 1 year service.
      6. Acquisition of strategic weapons.

    • PD says:

      08:09am | 22/06/12

      Interesting Shane.  What MBTs would you have recommended instead for the Armoured Corps?  I agree completely on the SeaSprites, incidentally.  If you can spare the time, can you answer some questions about your policy wishlist?
      1. Can’t argue in the slightest, but would consider adding the South China Sea given the volume of trade goods.
      2. Why Heard Island?  How would you manage unit rotation there, and who would you post there?  As for Xmas Island, it might unsettle the Indonesians a little too much to have a major military base just off their coastline, how would you handle their concerns?
      3. Not a bad idea, but why?  Do you foresee battles in the Antarctic?
      4. Precede it by the word naval, and I’m pretty happy.
      5. I’d extend it to 2 years myself, and ensure that trades were offered.  If conscripts elected to continue to serve, ensure that the 2 years already served contributes to their ROSO (or whatever acronym is used these days).
      6. Much less keen on this.  What type, and for what purpose?  I’m not a peacenik, the tech is learnt now and cannot be unlearnt, nukes will be with us until something “better” comes along, but I don’t really see much benefit for the cost.

      Cheers!

    • Borderer says:

      08:56am | 22/06/12

      Not that I think your idea would get off the ground but point 2.,Norfolk Island?? Wouldn’t happen, not a chance, no deep water landing (they still bring in goods on whale boats) and it’s self governed by the islanders, they would view a base as occupation, you can’t even own a business there unless you’re a resident.

    • AdamC says:

      10:01am | 22/06/12

      Thos are actually quite good proposals, Shane.

      However, I have a question. How is your interest in defence congruent with your, err, strident views on limiting Australia’s population? That is Australia’s most significant strategic problem. Ultimately, the success of nations depend primarily on demographic, institutional and economic factors. Military success or failure is normally an effect, rather than a cause of civilisational weakness.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:12am | 22/06/12

      @PD- It depends upon what role you are envisaging for the MBT. I’m only assuming that Howard wanted the Abrams for joint training and joint operations for the US. If Australia wanted an MBT for something else, there are cheaper and more fuel efficient tanks on the global market.
      1- South China Sea is a very touchy strategic area given the hoo ha over the Spratly Islands. Australia would have ask itself whether it was really necessary to be involved in that area. My personal opinion is that it is not worth it.
      2- Heard Island because of environmental concerns (read Whaling clashes and large scale fishing) in the Southern Ocean as well as Antarctica. Xmas Island because we do a lot of border protection operations up there. Norfolk Island for power projection in the South Pacific (besides they are broke and need the money)
      3- Would be nice to have cold weather warfare capability if some nations don’t decide to play nice over Antarctica
      4- Fair enough, but Australia needs more sailors in general and more Australian flagged ships (A docking tax upon non Australian flagged ships??)
      5- 1 year puts it as more of a compulsory gap year. I’d like 2 years or more but worry that it would be too disruptive to the workforce or tertiary education.
      6- Depends upon whether Australia ever builds nuclear power plants or not. If not I’d go with Biological or Chemical as a cheaper options (yes I know Australia would have to withdraw from non proliferation treaties, but then they are not worth the paper they are written on.)

    • Greg in Chengdu says:

      10:23am | 22/06/12

      @PD a base on Christmas Island is just common sense and to hell with the Indonesians.  And for Shane about compulsory conscription for 1 year is a waste of time and a hell of a lot of money i training to produce troops that will be useless for the few operational months they have left after training.

    • mikespol says:

      12:40pm | 22/06/12

      I agree with everything except conscription. Ask any defence force member and they’ll tell you that the last thing they want is a conscripted defence force. They don’t make good soldiers/sailors/airmen-women as they don’t want to be there. Throughout history voluntary militaries, well disciplined and drilled always defeat conscripted/slave armies forced to fight.

      What history will also tell you that the way in which a country projects its strategic power is its Navy. It’s what made the British Empire and is a big reason for American Hegemony following WW2. And for an island nation like ours, it’s just essential.

      The funniest thing is I’m yet to find any reference in historical documents to pink bats or school halls being the key to projecting strategic power. Nor have I seen anything about handouts for flat-screens.

    • Marks says:

      01:26pm | 22/06/12

      @Shane
      Sure there are cheaper & more fuel efficient MBT’s. But if those where the only two reasons to choose a vehicle everybody would drive a Tata Nano. Far more important than price & fuel efficiently is the big three in evaluating tanks, Mobility, Armour & Firepower. The Abrams is simply the best with the Leopard 2 being runner up.

      The F-35, has been plagued by delays, mainly because one airframe is being pushed to be all things to all people & this cannot be achieved. The STOL version should be a totally different airframe.  But we need a multirole 5th generation aircraft, the F-35 is the only one out there.

      Seaspite, granted, was never a good idea. Tried to do it on the cheap & nasty. Got an expensive & useless failure.

      Two useless wars? History will have its say when it is history. Say 50 years from now.

      As for the rest of your other suggestions
      1 - Already in place
      2 - Nuh, no use and or impractical, Coco Islands a much better bet
      3- Why? A battle in Antarctica is extremely unlikely
      4- Feather bedding results in sub standard performance
      5 – Conscripts are worse than useless on a modern battlefield, how good the large conscript based Iraq army go
      6- By Strategic Weapons I assume you mean Nukes. Not a good idea, this would only make us a target

      So one of out of ten, excellent, better than any present ALP defence minister would get.

    • JN says:

      02:34pm | 22/06/12

      Actually Shane I don’t mind the idea of national service either. It’s works very well in various countries. My idea of national service is somewhat different to yours though. I think you could have an element of military training, but most of the service period should be used for public service programs (working in national parks, tree planting, rubbish cleanups, emergency response etc). With Australia’s rapidly increasing multiculturalism, you could also use the service as a means of integration. By that I mean you could ensure that units contained a mix of culture and races. If you live and work in close proximity with someone for an extended period, you get to know and respect them.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      04:23pm | 22/06/12

      I’m sure Stuart Robert was a vocal opponent of the purchase of the utterly useless Sea Sprite helicopters. Why don’t you be a good chap Stuart and explain to Shane From Melbourne how you vigorously argued against this defense purchase of the Howard Government which ended up wasting $1.4 billion of taxpayers money?

    • Max Power says:

      06:16pm | 22/06/12

      Steve:  The Sea Sprites were a legacy from the Keating government. Th Howard government spent too much tim and money trying to make it work, but the Sea Sprites were bought by Labor.

    • acotrel says:

      07:11am | 22/06/12

      Perhaps instead of buying research and development into renewable energy sources with the proceeds of the ‘carbon tax’, we should rebuild our Australian defence research and manufacturing capabilities ?  Finding better ways to kill people sounds much more exciting than designing and developing better solar and geothermal power plants !

    • dovif says:

      07:49am | 22/06/12

      Another stupid comment from the paid up member of the ALP.

      Lets see developing and designing better solar and geothermal power plant

      That is what was supposed to happen in the EU too

      Guess what happened to the EU, since creating solar panels are energy intensive, because of the ETS, solar panels are made in China because it is cheaper there and they do not pay the ETS, so all the technology is actually in China, a place without an ETS or Carbon tax

      Wind power, costing EU governments billions a year, some of which are under administration

      And you wonder why the EU lower their ETS to $8, because it was destroying their economy, and costing their citizens billions and lots of jobs

      It is just another ALP lie, how much RND are you hearing from the EU, they have had the ETS for 8 years now, and they were saying the same things that the ALP said

      It is just more wasteful spending by the ALP

    • Mahhrat says:

      08:07am | 22/06/12

      @acotrel, the two don’t need to be mutually exclusive.

      It was Defence Science that invented the “Black Box” found in all modern aircraft.

      Most freeze-dried meals you eat were developed by their nutrition teams, if not actually made by them.

      You are right though, we’ve spent decades undermining Australia’s ability to actually build anything.  That’s why we buy US tanks, European jet fighters and struggle mightily to get Joe Public to understand that while they certainly had their teething problems, as non-nuclear submarines go, the Collins Class are rated amongst the best on the planet.  Not bad for a first effort.

    • acotrel says:

      09:19am | 22/06/12

      @Mahrat
      Which political party was mainly responsible for dismantling Australian defence manufacturing and R&D ? Where is the technology seed these days ?

    • acotrel says:

      09:21am | 22/06/12

      @Dovif
      ‘Another stupid comment from the paid up member of the ALP’

      Have a look in a mirror - do you see anything stupid there ?

    • Mark G says:

      09:39am | 22/06/12

      Actually Acotrel killing large numbers of people would probably have more of an effect on the worlds carbon footprint than julias tax ever will wink

    • Craig says:

      07:17am | 22/06/12

      Unfortunately quite true.

      However shallowness of thought is a characteristic of the present government across all portfolios.

      Unfortunately it is equally a characteristic of the current Coalition front bench.

      Either way Australia is not in good shape. Bring on a third option.

    • The Old Man says:

      07:23am | 22/06/12

      Stuart
      While he may be found wanting in other areas, at least Mike Kelly is a former soldier and has Defence experience, why wasn’t he made Defence Minister in this Ministry of Buffoons?
      Read recently where the government was offering payments of hundreds of thousands of dollars to entice experienced foreign soldiers to join our Defence Force? What about the hundreds of Nepali men who miss out on a place in the British Brigade of Gurkhas? Also the British MOD is downsizing, we could get experienced Gurkha soldiers who face a spartan future back in their native Nepal.
      Why is the government hell bent on wasting my money TRYING to design and build 12 white elephant conventional submarines, when we can buy/lease 6 or more Virginia class SSN’s? We get to learn the skills, as a country, on how to operate and maintain them, and their reactors, surely a bonus for when we are dragged screaming and kicking into the nuclear age?

    • acotrel says:

      08:15am | 22/06/12

      ‘While he may be found wanting in other areas, at least Mike Kelly is a former soldier and has Defence experience, why wasn’t he made Defence Minister in this Ministry of Buffoons?’

      So you believe in the inmates running the asylum ?

    • Zed says:

      10:01am | 22/06/12

      ‘So you believe in the inmates running the asylum ?’

      Bill Shorten - Workplace Relations minister.

    • mikespol says:

      12:53pm | 22/06/12

      I agree. Mike Kelly is one of the few talented ALP front benchers ATM. He would also earn and receive the respect of the military brass as he’s been there and done it. It’s actually good to know there are people with this talent on both sides of the house.

      And why Australia doesn’t have nuclear submarines, nuclear ships and nuclear power is a mystery when we are the Saudi Arabia of uranium is a mystery. It’s like the difference between a push bike (conventional) and motorbike (nuclear) - completely difference class

    • MarkS says:

      01:42pm | 22/06/12

      @The Old Man
      “Why is the government hell bent on wasting my money TRYING to design and build 12 white elephant conventional submarines, when we can buy/lease 6 or more Virginia class SSN’s?”

      The Virgina class SSN’s would be cheaper, they are produced for a little less the 2 Billion each. So 12 would cost 24 Billion.  They are talking about spending 36 Billion on 12 white elephant conventional submarines.

      Trying to build a long range modern ocean going submarine with conventional power is like trying to build a modern interceptor with propellers. Useless & expensive.

      The reason is the Chicken Little’s, as soon as you say nuclear more than half the so called adult voters run around screaming & waving their hands in the air.

    • MarkS says:

      01:47pm | 22/06/12

      @mikespol
      “And why Australia doesn’t have ... nuclear power is a mystery”

      The nuclear power bit is easy. It is much more expensive then using coal to produce power in Australia. We build power plants near coalfields, its cheap.

    • Stop the carping says:

      07:33am | 22/06/12

      Hang on Stuart… Now I know what I am about to say happened before you got your picnic chair at the Big House on the hill but I am not at all sure Howards control of defence was much better than the current mob.

      Let’s look at Ministers from 96 to 2007….MacLaughlin, Moore, Reith, Hill, Nelson all had a turn at Defence.  5 in 11 years so the average tenure barely gets them past the 18 months you refer to.  Contrast that to Tresury and Foreign Affairs - grand total of one each… Education Vanstone, Kemp, Nelson & Bishop… Communications where Howard had 3… I could go on but you have to look hard to find a portfolio that had as many as defence and even then they would not be as complicated as defence esp given the long term purchasing programs.

      Spotting a pattern here Stuart?  Maybe your former ADFA and Duntroon mates are perhaps a little difficult to manage?  I am starting to think this is not a party related issue but a problem for the whole country ... These boys seem not to like it when the teacher takes the toys they were promised away. Let’s face it they did a number on Fitzgibbon and looked as though they tried in Smith.

      As for cancelling programs… Well to say the least there are a variety of views on the need and cost for these subs and as it is we can’t find the crews for the 6 we have and any of the 5 Ministers under Howard had the opportunity to cancel the Supersprite choppers but got swayed by the boys in white they had to have them and believed the boffins who said they could be delivered.. Great value for the taxpayer weren’t they?

      Managment and leadership of this portfolio is important for all of us - strategically and to keep a bloody close eye on how our money is spent. Neither your guys or Lab have done it well or anything close to well.

    • acotrel says:

      09:28am | 22/06/12

      We were talking about the Labor Party, NOT the Libs !  The Libs are always the best economic managers, never waste a penny.  Don’t do much, but never waste a penny !

    • Stop the carping says:

      11:01am | 22/06/12

      Acotrel

      I agree the libs are better economic managers but they are both pretty hopeless when it comes to managing, controlling and leading the defence portfolio.  A problem we all pay for.

    • embracedmadness says:

      11:22am | 22/06/12

      You can’t go out to the movies or buy a new car when you’re paying off your credit card debt, Acotrel.

    • mikespol says:

      01:00pm | 22/06/12

      ‘These boys seem not to like it when the teacher takes the toys they were promised away.’

      These “toys” are designed to keep “you and your mates” safe and give you the freedom to make these comments. If you can’t thank them for their service, at least don’t criticise them for it.

      ‘Let’s face it they did a number on Fitzgibbon and looked as though they tried in Smith.’

      Fitzgibbon had an inappropriate relationship with a women who had links to senior officials in a brutal communist dictatorship that actively seeks to undermine this country’s military capability.

      And Smith has been actively attacking the defence force and defence public servants ever since he arrived. How would you react if your boss did that?

    • MarkS says:

      02:21pm | 22/06/12

      @Stop the carping
      “I am not at all sure Howard’s control of defence was much better than the current mob”

      I hated Howard & polished off a bottle of champagne when he lost his seat. But the ALP over the last two terms was been the very worst government I can recall as far as defence policy is concerned. I cannot think of a single planned decision they have made which was not either stupid, or if reasonable, now unfunded.

      The submarines are a classic in stupid above & beyond the cause. Plan to design and build 12 white elephant conventional submarines when we cannot even crew the useless 6 Collins class submarines we have now.  Ensure we do the design & build here, jobs for the union boys you know, forget about how much each job costs. Then fail to fund it so our present useless rubbish will need to be used way past their operational life anyway.

      Or the cancellation of the armoured self propelled artillery. This means that we can forget about being a modern army. An army without artillery is like a house without a roof. Modern armies have counter battery radar; fire a towed artillery piece on a modern battle field & the crew will be body bag filler with 5 minutes. Towed artillery is only useful against insurgents like the Taliban. Without self propelled artillery the tanks & armoured personal carriers are a waste of money.

      The only reasonable decisions they have made which have been funded have been off the cuff, no brainer decisions that a 13 year old could make. Such as the purchase of an additional C-17 , the purchase of more Bushmasters and more counter battery radar, all required and being used for our present requirements in Afghanistan. Failure here would have resulted in more body bags & no way to deflect the pointing fingers.

      Or the purchase of the electronic airfare kits for the possible conversation of the 12 Super Hornets with the Growler wiring to Growler configuration when the factory was closing down, buy it now or never have it. Failure to do this would have resulted in front page news jokes about how dumb they are.

    • Badjack says:

      07:51am | 22/06/12

      To Mr Robert, I am one of your constituents, 4216 is my postcode. If you ever read the comments section of The Punch you will know that “Badjack” is a right leaning commentor. Now, you have a hide taking potshots at the Govt over their ability to run Defence. Let me remind you that when the Skype Affair broke you wholeheartily supported the boffins (buffoons) who run the military. Not once did you lend support or show heartfelt sympathy to the young woman at the centre of the controversy. I wrote to you and Tony Abbott about it and you did not even have the balls or the intestinal fortitude to reply. You are a pathetic excuse for a human being let alone a “man”.  But don’t worry, I am out there most days campaigning on your behalf and reminding your constituents how highly I regard you.

    • PD says:

      08:40am | 22/06/12

      What did you write about?  How harsh it was of the Commandant to continue with the disciplinary action for unrelated matters?  The hearing that the cadet herself wished proceed?

    • Max Power says:

      08:55am | 22/06/12

      Why did she deserve sympathy. She broke a number of standing orders, just like the male involved. She chose to disobey orders, orders put in place by Defence to protect cadets from exactly these type of unintended consequences.
      Why shouldn’t they support the Buffoons who run the military, they followed protocol, referred the matter straight to the Fedral Police. Steven Smith peddeled lies about her treatment.

      At what point does she accept responsibility for her actions and choices. After all, no one forced her to disobey standing orders and re-enact the parting of the red sea for moses.

    • Mark G says:

      09:46am | 22/06/12

      My god, is that the political version of Stan from Eminem’s song? How dare a Politian not reply to a letter from the general public!!!

    • Badjack says:

      10:39am | 22/06/12

      to PD, Max Power, Mark G. I pity any daughter of yours if you have any

      if a boyfriend videos them having sex and sends it live to a few of his mates so they can look on.

      Maybe you will having a few beers and a guffaw along with them. I just love it when the pointy heads have to fall back on “protocol” to support their argument.

    • PD says:

      11:16am | 22/06/12

      As a matter of fact I do have a young daughter. 

      She will be brought up the same way I was, to respect authority and obey rules and regulations (especially those she willingly agrees to abide by), and to accept the consequences of her actions.

      Was it wrong of the male cadets to film her?  absolutely. 

      Was it wrong of the female cadet to engage in the activity?  absolutely.

      It seems to me that you’re confusing two matters.  The Commandant was criticised for proceeding with unrelated disciplinary action whilst the skype incident was hanging over the cadet’s head.  She was the one who insisted it proceed.  It was the media, helped by the Minister, who bundled the two matters together. 

      I feel some degree of sympathy for the cadet, but not to the point of abrogating her role in the matter.  Had she obeyed standing orders, she would not have placed herself in the position she found herself in.

    • Max Power says:

      11:20am | 22/06/12

      So falling back on rules and protocol is bad?  WTF, they are there to protect people from themselves. You can’t cry foul when you break the rules desgined to protect you.
      The male who filmed it will take responsibility for his part both through military law and civil law. But then again, that is bad right, as that is following protocol.
      But because the girl was filmed, we should just feel sorry for her. We should just ignore the fact that she disobeyed orders and should also ignore her demonstrated alcohol abuse and poor decision making. Because she was filmed, we should just remove her from all responsibility and accountability for her choices, actions and behaviour.

      I would hope my daughter has been raised to know better than getting drunk and disobeying rules. I would also hope my daughter has been raised to accept rsponsibility for hr actions and choices.

    • Badjack says:

      12:02pm | 22/06/12

      @max power,  you are confusing protocol with due process. Protocol relates to etiquette. formalities and rules of a group or procedure, not the law of the Country. Due process is what is granted in law. As for the rest of your reply, hope is eternal but don’t live in hope, our children are human.
      @PD,  Quote, was it wrong for the female to engage in the activity…absolutely. end quote. But not against the law for either the male or female.
      Was it against the law to video the act and broadcast it without consent, well there are some guys in jail today for doing “upskirts”

    • Max Power says:

      01:20pm | 22/06/12

      So is it not protocol for an alleged crime to be investigated. It is it not protocol for charges to be laid if the investigation finds evidence to warrant the laying of charges. Is it not protocol that those charges then be heard in a court of law to determine guilt.  Is it not protocol if guilt is established to be sentenced. 

      The Defence did the correct and only thing thy could, refer the matter to the Federal Police. It is not the fault of the ADF that the Federal Police after conducting their investigation, informed the ADF that no laws had been broken. At the time, it was not an illegal act to film consensual sex.
      It was only after political interferrence, did the AFP change their tune and find a minor law or two that had been broken. The ADF have no case to answer.
      The ADF have awareness training and standing orders to protect those in their duty of care. They cannot be held responsible if those in their duty of care disobey the orders and forget the awareness training. The ADF do have the DFDA to help remind people to obey orders and to help ensure the compliance to orders and expected behaviour.
      The boys and the girl, all deserve punishment under the DFDA, just because she was filmed, does not make her innocent.

    • Akrasiel Rising says:

      01:35pm | 22/06/12

      @ Badjack - Fraternisation is forbidden in the Standing Instructions, to engage in any such activity is an offence against section 29 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982 (Failing to comply with a general order ), therefore the actions of both participants was against the law… if you are going to apply the tar brush please do so evenly.

    • MarkS says:

      01:54pm | 22/06/12

      @Akrasiel Rising
      “Fraternisation is forbidden in the Standing Instructions, to engage in any such activity is an offence against section 29 of the Defence Force Discipline Act 1982”

      Rules against sex fail on average by about 6 inches

    • Badjack says:

      03:49pm | 22/06/12

      @akrasiel rising…..nice one AR but is your claim that it is against military law or the law of the land. If it is against the law of the military can you please tell when the military ousted our Govt. and put us under military rule. If it is a law of the land can you tell me when the law changed that consenting people over the age of 18 could not have sex, or is it 16. I am not making moral judgements on these 2 having sex, but I am saying it is morally corrupt and bottom feeding and not the behaviour of our future leaders to be broadcasting without consent a sex act legal or not

    • Akrasiel Rising says:

      02:35am | 23/06/12

      @ Badjack - by signing on the dotted line, those members agreed to be bound by the DFDA, an Act passed into law by a duly elected government. The laws only apply to those in a uniformed role in the ADF or Defence Civilians who temporarily sign on for various reasons. Therefore, to answer your question, it is the law of the land but those laws apply only to the military.

      The age of consent (16, 17 or 18 depending on which state you are in and the acts in which you choose to engage) is irrelevant in this case as it is not the act of coitus itself that is illegal but the failure to comply with a general order, being that they were not permitted to be involved in any sort of relationship of a sexual nature. I won’t go into the need for fraternisation policy here but it is suffice to say that in regard to maintaining discipline such relationships only complicate and confuse matters.

      With regard to broadcasting the act without consent, I would say that there is almost universal agreement that this is both morally corrupt and detestable. I also agree that this was a shameful manner in which to act by some potential future leaders, but what law has been broken? I know it was (and still is) very difficult to find any civil law that was contravened. This would explain why the AFP initially refused to take on the case.

      By contravening a written order these two consenting adults have equally broken the law and as such should be equally held accountable for that offence, if the act of broadcasting the act is also a punishable offence then this should be added to the list for those involved… in keeping with my initial response, let us apply the law equitably and without bias not dismiss an offence because we feel sorry for the perpetrator.

    • Nyani says:

      08:06am | 22/06/12

      The Christmas Island area is incapable of being protected against invasion by this government so what earthly chance is there in our present defence capabilities?
      Escorting sampans is about our limit!

    • Jack White says:

      08:07am | 22/06/12

      Yesterday, as every day, there were at least 7 large naval vessels rusting alongside Garden Island. None has been safely seaworthy for years, including the latest second-hand acquisition from Britain, now unserviceable for at least 6 months with a major failure. How can ANY defence staff justify continuing employment or Thales its contract to maintain naval competence?

    • Condor says:

      08:58am | 22/06/12

      What on earth do we need an army for? What century are you living in?

      A couple of thermonuclear warheads willo end any war in a matter of minutes

      “oh look, your piddly little country is just a hole in the ground, now. ohohoh it’s filling up with water. Oh no, too bad, we warned you”

      I say take off and nuke it from orbit.

    • fml says:

      10:16am | 22/06/12

      It’s all fun and games till youre the one being nuked.

    • fml says:

      10:04am | 22/06/12

      We should be like Switzerland with grey hearts filled with neutrality.

    • PD says:

      10:39am | 22/06/12

      Agree.

      Every man should be trained by the military and we should have a strong military, top of everybody’s “don’t mess with” list.

      That is what you meant, right?

    • Mark G says:

      11:18am | 22/06/12

      Yeah Switzerland the neutral country. The country that looked after Nazi gold and other possessions that were largely pilfered of Jewish families during the holocaust. The country whose banking system made the Nazies rich in the first place. The country that is extremely small with little mineral and oil resources. The country that when the war broke out, were so closely aligned to Germany that the Germans saw no point in invading them but attacked every other non-axis country around them.

      Neutrality is a convenience not a choice. Need I remind you that in WW2, Norway was also neutral. Right up to the point where German paratroopers parachuted into all their major cities. The difference? Norway had vast oil reserves that they refused to sell to Germany after the attack on Poland.

    • fml says:

      11:37am | 22/06/12

      Mark G,

      It isn’t very likely that we are going to be invaded by Nazis.

      PD,

      Sorta, but with out the conscription and only getting involved in peace keeping missions.

    • Mark G says:

      01:24pm | 22/06/12

      “It isn’t very likely that we are going to be invaded by Nazis.”

      Yes but that is completely missing my point. The Nazis are not the only threat that has ever existed in the world. What I said is that neutrality like Switzerland is a convenience not a choice. Its easy to be neutral when no country really has a reason to attack you. When you are in a region with the ‘big boys’ you cant just pull out the neutral card and say you cant attack me I’m neutral and expect to be safe. This is particularly true of a country that has vast natural resources that is surrounded by two of the largest growing economies in the world (both of which now have significant naval power).

    • MarkS says:

      01:33pm | 22/06/12

      @Mark G
      It was not so much Norways oil of which Norway was not producing much anyway at the time. It was Swedish iron ore, in winter it was shipped though Narvik. Germany needed that iron ore, the Allies were going to block the shipments by force if required, including invading Norway themselves if they had to.

      As for Switzerland, it held nothing useful to Germany but for rail tunnels to Italy. Tunnels that the Switz would have blown up if they were invaded.

    • fml says:

      02:51pm | 22/06/12

      MarkG,

      If we get invaded I will buy you a coke.

    • Expat Ozzie says:

      10:07am | 22/06/12

      “The Government has absolutely no idea what the impact will be on industry from the two year deferral of the Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). Numerous Australian companies, encouraged by Government to sign up to the JSF supply chain will now be fundamentally impacted; some may go to the wall. How does the Coalition know this?”

      No this one is if the Libral parties fault for signing up to a program that was always going blow out and you have the gall to litter your writings with historical references. It’s a pitty your own party never learns the lessons of history.

      The ADF is small scale and should be purchasing current off the shelf products. The Lib’s should have ignored the JSF and replaced both the F111 and F18 with the Super Hornet.

    • Mark G says:

      10:18am | 22/06/12

      I can accept labor deciding to cut defence spending back the way they have. I hate it but that’s the way the cookie crumbles. What I take exception to as an ADF member is the fact that they flatly refuse to own up to their decision. Scripted statements sprouted from the mouths of the labour party lackeys of “we won’t cut front line capability” are really starting to piss me off. There are not two Australian Armys. What happens domestically effects what happens on deployment. You cannot train with broom sticks at home and expect to be an effective and efficient fighting force when you deploy. If you cut back the domestic force, it WILL have an effect on our capabilities overseas. Just own up to your decision for god’s sake.

      These cutbacks are the largest since the post Vietnam era. The effect of the cut backs then crippled the capability of the ADF throughout the eighties and nineties. We have only just recently started to get a lot of the lost capabilities back and now they want to strip everything back again? The lesson from the rebuilding of the ADF through the late nineties and post 2000 is that the expense of rebuilding far outstrips the cost of maintaining capabilities correctly. Labor can delay and delay and delay new equipment to save money out of a single year’s budget as much as they want but eventually all our equipment will reach its used by date and we will hit the same wall that we hit in the early nineties. The longer you delay the equipment acquisition programs, the more equipment becomes antiquated and the larger the list of equipment needing replacement gets. If you continue with this expenditure then eventually you will find that the Armys capability will eventually become second rate and obsolete. Our ability to even defend our own shores would be tested, let alone having an ability to successfully force project into our region or other regions in the world. Delaying projects to save money is false economy. As I said, the nineties proved that it’s cheaper just to maintain capabilities than it is to constantly cut back, delay and then rebuild in surges.

    • Greg in Chengdu says:

      10:28am | 22/06/12

      “Tough choices will have to be made in order to reach surplus,” Julia Gillard, translated that means I’m going to break alot of promises in the vain hope of staying in power, I suppose defence spending comes under that heading

    • Gregg says:

      10:30am | 22/06/12

      All those school halls must have some defence use!
      And the NBN will certainly help defensive measures!

    • Expat Ozzie says:

      12:01pm | 22/06/12

      Gregg: I see you still haven’t learnt anything about the Gregg. Must my nice living with your head in the sand.

    • Expat Ozzie says:

      01:15pm | 22/06/12

      Sorry that should be NBN Gregg.

    • EC says:

      01:00pm | 22/06/12

      Unfortunately, something like this was to be expected. In my opinion, Labor actually detests the military and only tolerates their continued existence due to the military’s standing in the eyes of the community.

      What really annoys me is how politicians (and I’ll be fair and say of those of all political persuasions) are more than happy to get some great PR by turning up on Anzac Day or a military parade, mumble a few platitudes (the usual ones are sacrifice, service, loyalty and something vague about the Anzac tradition), have the obligatory photo opportunity standing with the troops and then return to Parliament to continue to shred what is left of our Defence capability and industry.

      I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the hypocrisy of it all.

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

The Punch is moving house

The Punch is moving house

Good morning Punchers. After four years of excellent fun and great conversation, this is the final post…

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

I have had some close calls, one that involved what looked to me like an AK47 pointed my way, followed…

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

In a world in which there are still people who subscribe to the vile notion that certain victims of sexual…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: Hasbro, go straight to gaol, do not pass go

Tim says:

They should update other things in the game too. Instead of a get out of jail free card, they should have a Dodgy Lawyer card that not only gets you out of jail straight away but also gives you a fat payout in compensation for daring to arrest you in the first place. Instead of getting a hotel when you… [read more]

From: A guide to summer festivals especially if you wouldn’t go

Kel says:

If you want a festival for older people or for families alike, get amongst the respectable punters at Bluesfest. A truly amazing festival experience to be had of ALL AGES. And all the young "festivalgoers" usually write themselves off on the first night, only to never hear from them again the rest of… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

Superman needs saving

Superman needs saving

Can somebody please save Superman? He seems to be going through a bit of a crisis. Eighteen months ago,… Read more

28 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free News.com.au newsletter