Where the heart dares to tread, politicians’ chequebooks follow in an election year. Tony Abbot embraced his (sort of) inner feminist on Monday announcing his proposed maternity leave plan that would see women paid up to $150,000 for six months’ at home after their baby is born.

Do you mind if I bring the baby in? Illustration: Tom Jellett

This, on the heels of Kevin Rudd’s maternity leave proposal that offers women the minimum wage of $544 for 18 weeks, due for delivery in January in 2011, is surely good news for women and men keen to do their bit of our nation’s population growth.

But in this mad scramble to win the hearts and minds and bank accounts of “working families” have Rudd and Abbot paused to consider whether maternity leave is necessarily a positive thing for women?

In the UK Gordon Brown is hustling legislation through parliament in the lead up to May general election that would offer working parents a greater right to demand flexible working hours from employers.

This follows changes to maternity and paternity leave in the UK in recent years that now provide women with six weeks at 90% of their average pay, followed by 33 weeks at the statutory rate of 123 pounds a week, and can further extend this up to 52 weeks with the remainder unpaid. Parents also have the option of transferring the last six months of maternity leave to the father.

But, in putting their best maternally minded hat on, are bureaucrats stymieing women’s fortunes in the workplace?

Nicola Brewer, the UK’s chief executive of the Equalities and Human Rights Commission, has argued that more generous maternity leave provisions hamper women’s ability to navigate their way up the professional ladder. Brewer told the Times last year “The thing I worry about is that the current legislation and regulations have had the unintended consequence of making women a less attractive prospect to employers.”

Addressing a parliamentary enquiry last year, Nichola Pease, the Deputy Chairman of JO Hambro capital management and a mother of three children horrified many people when she commented, “We have to be realistic and make sure the protection around women doesn’t end up backfiring”.

Vogue UK editor Alexandra Shulman, penned a piece last year entitled, “Year-long maternity leave, flexi hours, four day weeks… why would ANY boss hire a woman?” In it she writes about her exasperation at having to accommodate the demands of the mothers’ she employs, “A full-time jobs means full-time work - not doing the school run as someone else solves the latest office crisis”

Shulman says, “I met a woman last week who heads up a small company. ‘You’re not allowed to say it, but the reality is that the maternity situation is a nightmare’.”

She quotes Anya Hindmarch, an internationally-renowned businesswoman and owner of her eponymous fashion company as saying, “If we are not careful (and I speak as a mother and an employer), maternity leave and benefits will become too biased towards the mother and not considerate enough for the employer. In which case, it can start to work against women as it becomes too complicated and expensive to employ them. To me, it shouts of shooting ourselves in the foot.’”

Shulman argues that women’s expectation they can wander off to have a baby leaving colleagues to bear the brunt of responsibility, followed by the assumption they could stroll back into the office and take up where things left off was far unfair to both employers and colleagues.

Shulman summed up the taboo around this topic, “It’s barely acceptable to write this piece at all- and probably impossible for a man”.

A report entitled “Why Are There So Few Top Female Executives in Egalitarian Welfare States?” published by Sweden’s Research Institute of Industrial Economics reviewed women’s workforce participation in Anglo-Saxon countries (US, the UK, Canada and Australia) compared to Scandinavian countries (Sweden, Denmark, Norway and Finland), which famously provide much more generous family leave benefits.

The report found that there were higher percentages of female executives in countries that offered women less maternal leave benefits. They found that as of 2007, women accounted for 29.7% of managerial roles in Scandinavian countries as opposed to 40.8% in Anglo-Saxon countries.

The report’s authors Magnus Henrekson and Mikael Stenkula conclude, “Broad-based welfare state policies impede women’s representation in elite competitive positions.” They go on to put in the bluntest of academic argot, “broad welfare state policy promotes high female labor force participation, but blunts incentives to pursue top executive positions in the business sector”.

The consequences of providing greater maternity leave go beyond potentially damaging the career prospects of women. Offering mothers more time at home with their children serves to reinforce the traditional role of women as the central caregiver, sidelining and diminishing the role of fathers Nicola Brewer argues.

Then there is the question of women who have no intention of having children. How is an employer to know whether a female candidate for a position has no desire to become a mother? Employers will end up treating all women on this side of menopause with the same suspicion as their nappy-happy colleagues.
Ramming fistfuls of dollars at women does not in anyway addresses the issues involved in providing ongoing and affordable care for children when women do decide to rejoin the land of Outlook Express.

Easing the financial burden of taking time off to have a child is all very applause-worthy, but Tony and Kevin, it’s time to look a little closer at whether the chequebook can solve this one.

66 comments

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    • Eric says:

      04:58am | 11/03/10

      In the workplace, as elsewhere, feminists insist on having the cake and eating it too. Real life is a compromise, and someone who is wholly dedicated to work cannot be wholly dedicated to child-rearing at the same time.

      There are good reasons for the lower proportion of women in the highest paid jobs, since as this article points out many simply have other priorities. The feminist answer is to impose artificial quotas by force - an idea that has been tried in Norway with predictable negative results. Nevertheless it’s still being pushed here in Australia.

      It’s time for governments to set aside the myths of political correctness, and to evaluate the realities of the workplace. Neither men nor women can “have it all”.

    • Bec says:

      05:09am | 11/03/10

      Which is why there’s a desperate need for better paternity leave entitlements.

    • Macca says:

      07:52am | 11/03/10

      woah woah woah, slow it down Bec, did you just say something that Eric may agree on?!?!

      I’m flabbergasted

      ... but I like it

    • Martin G says:

      08:11am | 11/03/10

      Agreed. As long as maternity and paternity leave is unpaid, or paid by the business. The taxpayer should not have to foot the bill for this.

    • Helen says:

      09:03am | 11/03/10

      Macca, Eric enjoys complaining. I don’t think he’d like a change that might involve actual work… for him.

    • Macca says:

      10:04am | 11/03/10

      @martin G, anything else the taxpayer can skimp on?

      Any chance on personal income tax hitting around 17% so everyone can just look after their individual interests?

    • Martin G says:

      10:17am | 11/03/10

      Macca, I mentioned I am against taxpayer-funded maternity and paternity leave. I offered no opinion on levels of income tax.

      Care to elaborate on your stance?

    • Kylie says:

      12:20pm | 11/03/10

      @ Martin G -

      I may be putting words in Macca’s mouth here… but i think his point was that our income tax (along with all the other personal & business taxes) contribute to funding all the ‘taxpayer funded’ schemes.

      Lets take a hypothetical example… Say the government stopped funding public hospitals - logically, our rates of income tax could be lowered as the government would have washed its hands of a massive expense, and would require less money from us taxpayers to fund the remainder of its responsibilities.
      How about if the govt then stopped providing funding for roads - Lets drop income tax levels again, that money’s no longer burning a big hole in KRudd’s pocket…..

      you get the drift…

    • Martin G says:

      12:51pm | 11/03/10

      @Kylie/Macca. That’s the point I thought Macca was getting at. If so, I wasn’t advocating stripping tax dollars away from hospitals, etc.

      There is a difference between the public funding essential public services (law and order, health, transport) and becoming a welfare state. Taxpayer-funded leave for having children fits in the latter category.

      “anything else the taxpayer can skimp on?”

      Given our national budget will be in deficit for the next 5 years and much of the world is still in recession, do you think this proposed policy is wise in the current state of affairs? I would definitely be looking at places where money can be saved, if I’d just doled out $43bn and put Australia into record debt.

    • Peter says:

      01:04pm | 11/03/10

      Macca, i am a proud tax payer. I am happy to pay for your kids education, I am happy to contribute to universal healthcare for all our citizens, i am happy to pay for reasonable governement services and running costs, but i am NOT happy to pay $150,000 to rich people to have kids. Mr Abbott has just turned taxation into theft. I can tell you right now, I will not be employing women of a child bearing age, its not fair on the tax payer. This is outrages, it is wrong on so many levels its not funny. Don’t buy into ‘this will be a levy of big business arguement”. That levy can easily be removed by not this entitlement. My god where are we heading?? I can guarantee you that a women on $150k is unlikely to be married to a man earning minimum wage, they will be with someone earning the same if not more.. If my parents were able to bring up 4 kids (both earning minimum wage), then surely these people can do just fine without my money.. I am soo angry…

    • Kylie says:

      01:03pm | 11/03/10

      Martin -
      I guess that’s the crux of the matter, and why its generating so much debate….. some people view paid maternity/paternity leave as an essential service - allowing more parents to stay at home & spend time raising their new baby in the critical first 6-12 months of its life.

      Others think it would be a waste of money, and that if you want a baby, you should budget for it BEFORE you have it.

      I personally think paid leave (at a parent’s current salary) is a great idea, and much better than a $5k baby bonus which - let’s face it - is really just aimed at encouraging welfare dependant women to pump out kids-for-cash. Even more so, now that it’s means-tested.

      There are plenty of govt/taxpayer funded things I think are a waste of money - cash rebates on waterwise washing machines, or the govt paying my dole-bludging neighbour to sit in her backyard smoking cones all day…. But other people (particularly my dole-bludging neighbour) may think they’re worth every cent.

      I agree that perhaps the govt should be looking at ways to rein in the spending, but I think this one is more than worth its weight in gold…

    • Peter says:

      01:32pm | 11/03/10

      Kylie, the $5000 baby bonus encourages welfare dependancy, but $150,000 doesn’t? What planet are you living on? How spoilt have we become. Let’s face it Kylie a women on $150,000 a year is unlikely to be with a man earning less, this is downright theft.. If my parent were able to bring up 4 kids earning minimum wage without welfare, what is the problem with you women today? Your acting like bloody victims because you have kids. Men have kids too Kylie but they don’t run around to Governments asking for hand outs. Your are losing a lot of respect.. Wake up to yourself…

    • Kylie says:

      02:51pm | 11/03/10

      Peter -
      No, I dont believe the Opposition’s proposed scheme will encourage welfare dependacy. Given that the Productivity Commission is pushing hard for such a scheme, it seems that it will have the exact opposite effect.

      You see, the scheme isnt proposing to give $150k to every person who pops out a child (like a baby-bonus scheme on steroids). It proposed to pay a parent the equivalent of their current salary for a period of six months, for people earning up to $150k per annum. You have to already be earning a $150k salary to receive your $75k paid leave.

      A person earning $30k a year would receive $15k over a 6-month period. For a person on a say, $80-100k salary, they would receive $40-50k over 6 months.

      Your parents may have survived on a single salary without welfare - and good one them for doing so - but I bet they didn’t need two incomes to pay off the house you were raised in?
      Its not a problem with “us women” - its a consequence of society’s shift to 2-incomes families, not single-income families that were commonplace in the 50s and 60s.
      Since it has become common-place for women to be in the workforce, the cost of living has increased to reflect the higher disposable income of families. Average houses with average mortgages now need 2 incomes to pay for. That means it isnt as easy as it was in your parents’ era to raise a family on one income.

      At least I (sort of ) agree with you on one point…. Men DO have kids too. These same men will also be able to take paid leave to care for their newborns under this scheme….. is that not a good thing?

    • Peter says:

      03:50pm | 11/03/10

      Kylie, I do agree with you that women entering the work place in the 50’s and 60’s just had an affect of doubling the cost of living. In the end, no family has really benefited from that. 

      Kylie, this scheme is proposing to give rich people money they don’t need and give poor people less. You can quote what the productivity commission is trying to do, but at the end of the day, its still welfare for this rich. What you might think is good for you, in giving money to rich people that don’t need it, is bad for the next person who won’t get a job at all because business has to pay someone to take time off work. I can tell you, as an employer and as of yesterday, i have made up my mind that I will not be employing women of child bearing age because it is not fair on the tax payer. And don’t tell me this is a levy on Big Business, because as it has not been quoted much in the media, Abbott intends to take the levy off once the national debt has been paid off and then the burdeon will fall on the ordinary tax payer. Why shoud someone on minumum wage subsidise a woman on a $150,000 a year with a husband earning $300,000 with money to have kids. What you are proposing is absolutely cruel on them, and not fair. You don’t need the money and welfare dependacy is not good for the individual and a bad environment to bring your kids up in, to teach them to expect hand outs from government. If Tony Abbott was able to find $75,000 for a women who doesn’t need it to have some time off, then surely that money has always been available to provide decent dental care for our poor and elderly.. Do you think we have our priorities right? Think about it.. and yes my parents did need 2 incomes, there where on minimum wage and they were bringing their 4 kids up in the 70’s when people did have much money… This excessive maternaty leave entitlement is not the good thing you think it is. I would love to tell people, don’t worry, don’t work, go out to the park and have fun, go a sip your latte’s and enjoy a lazy life because someone else will pay for it for you. Well, as much as I would love to live that life, we were all meant to live a life of work and toil. Have we become so spoilt that people like you believe that are entitled to a $150,000 hand out? Your unbelievable. You call the $5000 baby bonus welfare dependacy, but $150,000, that’s your feminist right, because after all women are victims because they have kids. Oh poor victims on $150,000 per year. Gimme Mr Government, im a victim, my husband earns $300,000 and im on $150,000 Mr Government, but im a victim and I want poor people to fund my rich life.. Oh the poor rich victims who have to have kids. You gotta feel sorry for them.

    • Elizabeth says:

      07:26am | 11/03/10

      1) A problem is identified in society and the workplace.
      2) The blame is laid at the feet of women.

      Repeat ad nauseum.

      How about we get creative here? Is it even the slightest bit possible that the problem is not those pesky women who keep wanting to have babies without being penalised for it (and the issue here doesn’t stop with the short-term job prospects - there are long-term career hurdles, pay discrepancies and very importantly, loss of retirement income, to consider.) Perhaps - and forgive me, I’m just one of those grabby-grabby feminists and a mother with a ‘baby brain’ to boot, so who knows if I’m completely off-base! - it’s possible that the problem is not women at all but workplace structures which are stuck in Victorian times. It was all well and good to have workers (yes, men, but now also women) expected to put in ridiculous over time, when those workers were assumed to have a wife at home to care for the domestic sphere. We have rightly moved on from this assumption, but our workplaces and career expectations have not. Both men and women deserve full lives, with work/family balance as part of that package. Maternity and paternity leave are extremely important elements of that but the one thing this article gets right is that they are not the total answer.

      It is hard to say what the real answer is in terms of policy but I know what it isn’t—laying the blame on women. We have wombs, get the hell over it.

    • Tim says:

      09:20am | 11/03/10

      Seeing as your solution to this problem is for society and businesses to change the way they work just to suit your own personal decisions, then yes, yes it is your fault.

    • Ray says:

      09:32am | 11/03/10

      You are right Elizabeth, the blame is at the feet of women, because they are the ones that want, want, want. They are takers and users, not the providers and nurturers myth that is culturally embedded in our society folklore. This and similar issues come from what women want. Nothing to do with children or fathers. Indeed we have gone on a path over 35 years to denigrate fathers at every opportunity and are now reaping the rewards. Albeit slowly realising the error of our misplaced ideology. Women already have a lay down mezere advantage in the workplace with conditions, flexibility and maternity payments that are unavailable to men. Through an equally misplaced ideology we chose to educate girls better than boys and young women therefore have the better jobs better choices, and generally do the paper shuffling time poor jobs while men do the productive jobs that keep the country solvent and allow freeloaders the luxury of paper shuffling time poor jobs. But to tackle the problem of boys education would require politicians to move outside the comfort zone politics of appeasing women at every turn. This reproductive focus is absurd. It’s something that should come naturally not artificially supported. Of course with our present legislation women can take the maternity option, resign after the benefits, go on a cougar fantasy, cash out by flicking your poor sucker of a husband and take his assets, super, and child support, and then move on to the next poor sucker and repeat the dose. You might gather that I, like most men, have had a gut full of women and their protected species priveleges. But that attitude comes from the environment and bad attitude towards men.  You mention paternity leave Elizabeth, but it is absent from any of T. Abbott’s takes, and is mere tokenism in any case. Also, the focus on maternity leave clearly sets precedent as the mother being primary carer. So upon the inevitable separation the father is already cast in stone legally ,as the provider so hence the child support payer. Good luck dads you will need it. The best aspect for the economy is that with six months maternity leave coffee shops, restaurants and gyms, plus the beach will benefit from women receiving up to $75,000 to provide for unplanned for expenses of women patronising these places. while their child is in childcare and the same poor sucker of a husband works 60 hours a week for the family. A true economic stimulation package. Come on girls put your shoulder to the wheel, do your share, but whatever, stop whinging. And about blame, if the cap fits you must wear it.

    • Martin G says:

      09:59am | 11/03/10

      I wish I could have articulated my feelings are well (sans the lack of paragraphs) as you did there, Ray. Why else would we have an ‘Office for the Status of Women’?

      I agree. Some women need to grow up and accept life isn’t easy and you don’t deserve a handout from poor Joe Taxpayer at every turn of events in their life. And pollies, stop telling me I should be responsible for funding a woman’s lifestyle choice! Feed, clothe and entertain your children with your own damn money.

    • D says:

      11:33am | 11/03/10

      “women who keep wanting to have babies without being penalised for it “
      How are these women being penalised when they are essentially getting PAID by the government to have kids in the first place! Maternity leave, baby bonus and government assistance for parents are all examples.

      How about paying your own bloody way for a change! Women in the workplace who are not having kids are the ones being penalised. We pick up your slack when you have to leave early because little Johnny has a sniffle. Our taxes pay for you to have this time off and receive bonuses that you blow on wide screen TVs. It seems just being a woman in the corporate world is turning into an achilles heal.

      Where’s my bonus for not over populating this place with kids that stab eachother in playgrounds.

      Women might have to think about adding a section on the old CV stating whether they have intentions on having kids or not. Clearly these proposed maternity entitlements are going to make the job market even harder for women in furture.

    • Peter says:

      09:07am | 12/03/10

      Hey Elizabeth, yes women have wombs but men have babies as well. The tax dollar Elizabeth and the welfare it provides has always been intended as a means of last resort, not to fund people not to work. If you don’t need the money, you shouldn’t get it. As I said, men have kids too Elizabeth, but they don’t organise groups to go to Canberra to ask for handouts they don’t need. Have a bloody good hard look at yourself. If you think getting money from Government so you can continue to pay for your big house in Toorak, then we have become one sick society… If you were really a Patriot, if we were all really Patriots, we would be opposing this. Im a proud tax payer, im happy to pay for your kids primary and secondary education, i am happy to contribute to universal health care so you and your family can be protected in times of need, I am happy to pay for your Dole should you lose your job and need to feed your family, but not this Elizabeth, this time we have asked for too much… This is wrong..

    • T.Chong says:

      07:47am | 11/03/10

      Elizabeth 8:26   : “We have wombs, get the hell over it” might be very good advice to all those women who immediatley don the cloak of victim and martyr whenever these topics are raised.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      08:50am | 11/03/10

      What is it with you guys ?  The pollies are in the pooh if they don’t crawl on hands & knees to women ( God bless them )  then , when they do , the women give ‘em another serve for being condescending. Mine was a one salary family with 3 kids , two went to university , darling wife stayed home in the mother role & home management .  Needless to say , we struggled financially , it was really tough.  It was always in my mind that Mothers who stayed home to raise their kids & home manage should recieve acknowledgement in the form of a mothers allowance , additional to the Child Allowance , which was available at the time. Our kids were born 1974
      1976 & 1980 , to give an idea of the era in which we struggled.
                      The point i want to make is that we would have been over the moon at the suggestion of a Maternity Leave Proposal , now , i find it hard to believe that people are being so dismissive & picky on the matter. Let me advance a little advice on the matter. The Menzies government , in the 1950’s
      introduced Child Endowment. It was welcome relief to cash strapped families in those days , large families too , no TV’s then.  Give real consideration to Tony Abbott’s proposal , the Liberal Party has always had a good record in family welfare &  you can be certain that when the full details of the plan’s funding are released , it WILL be a viable scheme. In the meantime , ladies , be secure in the knowledge that we men really do care about our women’s well being in all spheres. ( no , i am NOT patronising the fairer sex , i just love them one & all. ) ( NOT a deviate either. ! )

    • PG says:

      08:53am | 11/03/10

      Yep Elizabeth in fact it is only recently that the ratio of working overtime for nothing has gone up with the demise of the Trade Union movement. Women mass entry into the workplace contributed to this demise as they were and still are less likely to join trade Unions then their male collegues, i have heard from mysogynists that this was a greed thing and from women a self confidence thing—- Whatever the reason bosses could and still do pick women off one by one. I think the majority of women ( not just a few) need to see womens groups as an Instrument to achieve political and economic objectives and not just a place to express their individuality and be safe in.

    • yut says:

      09:00am | 11/03/10

      You can’t have maternity leave without paternity leave in the age of Equality. Men and women work too hard these days, and we all focus too much on material things. A change of pace would be nice.

    • BensonBird says:

      09:10am | 11/03/10

      Countless generations and its still happening overseas had their children and go back into the fields to work. Birthing is not an illness. Personally I think alot of young women will find themselves unable to get a job. And will have a permanent holiday on unemployment befitis. Having a child today is a money making excersise, these women know they will get money and are cashing in on it. They have the child, stick it in daycare and resume their lives, mothering from 6pm to 6am only.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:26am | 11/03/10

      I think the point with maternity leave is to avoid this situation. I.e promote sucessful, employed women to have kids instead of the government handouts which unfortunately (and obviously) targetted unemployed young mothers.

    • Horatio says:

      12:11pm | 11/03/10

      I agree, most women who work today only seem to mother in their childrens sleeping hours. These children are in effect motherless. How many under 5 years old stay up later than 7.30pm? I doubt there would be many. Most parents know a young child needs sleep. It will be interesting to see in later years how these children fare in life.  6 months is not enough to nurture a child. I honestly feel children need at least 5 years to get a good start in life. But today most women are to selfish to stay home and invest in their children. Others have mortgage ect to pay but they should realize this before they have a child and not expect the tax payer to foot the bill or Big Business for that matter. Tony Abbott is buying votes at the expense of these children

    • Heidi says:

      08:54am | 12/03/10

      Yes, and when those women go back out into the fields, they more often than not strap their baby to their back and take it with them. Are you suggesting workplaces should allow women to bring their babies to work with them. Or that women go straight back out to work while leaving their baby at home? In which case, why the snide remark about sticking babies in daycare? You can’t have it both ways. Women are damned if they do and damned if they don’t these days. If I accept government assistance allowing me to stay home and raise my children myself then I am a lazy bludger relying on welfare, but if I put my children into daycare and return to work then I am an unfit mother who should be at home looking after my kids myself. Horatio would call me selfish for not putting my life and career on hold to stay home with my kids for 5 years. Let me ask you this Horatio - are YOU willing to stay home with your kids until the youngest if 5? Why is only women who are considered selfish for choosing to work outside the home? Aside from breastfeeding (and most children are not breastfed for 5 years) there is no aspect of child rearing that cannot be done equally well by a father as by a mother.

      I can’t believe how much anger and hate and vitriol exists in this debate.  The fact is, Australia needs women to work and we need women to have babies. Can you imagine the effect on our economy if every woman with children suddenly left the workforce? And if no one was having babies anymore, who will fund your retirement and look after you in your old age? No future working population does not make for a very bright future. So how about we stop making wild assumptions about working women and mothers, and come up with a practical solution that allows women (and men) to be both workers and parents.

    • Bitten says:

      09:12am | 11/03/10

      Couldn’t people just take responsibility for their choices and stop expecting someone else, anyone else, to pay for them? No, of course not, silly me. That’s not right at all.

    • Matt says:

      09:16am | 11/03/10

      The author’s argument would have been stronger if it had actually pertained to Australia.

      Here are some facts the author overlooks:

      1) Women in Australia have long had the right to unpaid parental leave. The pledges by each major party to provide paid parental leave do not extend the period in which the mother (or primary care giver) will be away from the workforce. If you wish to argue against the entitlement to unpaid parental leave, then do so. I suspect that is an argument that will not be widely supported.

      2) Both schemes proposed (the Government’s and the Opposition’s) cleverly minimise the disemployment effects that would be associated with mandating an employer-funded maternity leave scheme. They do this by funding it out of general revenue (in the case of the Government’s scheme) and out of a hypothecated levy (in the case of the Opposition’s scheme).

      Arguments from overseas can provide a reasonable basis for arguments here, but the author should have made some attempt to adapt them to our particular political and legal circumstances. Also she has a redundant plural possessive apostrophe in the ninth paragraph.

    • dancan says:

      09:24am | 11/03/10

      It’s pretty simple when you look at it. 

      If you’re in the position of CEO why would you risk employing or promoting someone who might disappear for up to 12 months multiple times over a 5-10 year period, apart from the problems caused by the absence you still have to continue paying said person for a fairly substantial period of time during that absence. 

      If that wasn’t enough to make you not want to employ someone in that possible situation, once the person returns they will need to be retrained and reinformed of changes not to just the workplace but maybe to the field that they work in.  A lot can change in 6-12 months, even 3 months depending on the job.  It might not sound like much but time = money

      Mixing in with the above, if someone goes on maternity leave you have to fill the now vacant position, back fill all the other positions if you promote someone and then you run the risk of losing those people you promoted when they have to return to their old jobs.

      There are lots more that I haven’t listed, but really when you think about all the variables involved with hiring a woman within that 22-37 age bracket, why would you?

    • EqualityForAll says:

      09:42am | 11/03/10

      Your all looking at this wrong.  Equality means everyone one is equal.  So why are men treated like they’re not able to be a good father to their child?

      I keep hearing the exact same arguments over and over from women, all of which can be elininated in one quick stroke.  If people where serious, MEN would ALSO have paid maternity leave.  THEN NO EMPLOYER would hire or not hire someone for fear of maternity leave.  Hell the tables might even turn, think about it.  You can see when a woman is pregnate, but you’ll have no idea when a blokes partner/wife is pregnate.  If everyone was treated equally the world would be a better place.

      I for one WANT to be a father for my child, at the moment it’s only mum who’s given the support.  Why can’t I be the father I wanna be?  Why is it ALL left to the woman? Then women say their treated unfairly…  What a load of hot air, men have nothing at all…  Yet we’re treated fairly are we?

      I support paid leave, but I’d want it for both genders to remove discrimination!

    • Yut says:

      10:27am | 11/03/10

      Well said my friend. Most men will love the idea of chilling at home with their new-borne while being paid by the government at their current wage level. And after the 6/12 months is up, they’ll love strolling back into their job and picking it up where they left off.

      Equality means equality for everyone.

      But the real winner winner with universal parental leave is the children, and that’s what matters most.

    • Jane says:

      10:35am | 11/03/10

      Raising the next generation of tax payers / workers / educators etc needs to be framed as an issue for both men & women. Men should be encourgaed to be more involved in the rearing of their children and workplaces should be encouraged to support them, just as women should be supported as well.

      For those who talk about having children as a ‘lifestyle choice’, ask yourself this: who is going to be working to pay for your old age pension, your medicare, your medicines (under PBS) and everything else you will be entitled to. Oh and who do you think will be wiping your backside in the old people’s home?

      Having children benefits everyone, it’s time people accepted it.

    • Tim says:

      11:33am | 11/03/10

      So its equality for all except for the childless is it?
      Jane,
      do people think of the country when they are having their children? No. They do it for their own personal reasons. If the government removed benefits then people would still have kids. Don’t act like its some kind of benevolent act from you to others.
      I very much doubt that there will be a pension and benefits when I get old or they will be greatly reduced. That’s why I put extra into superranuation and savings because I know that I should be looking after myself in retirement.
      And as for who is going to be wiping my bum in the old folks home? Probably a third world migrant’s children, because there is no way that your precious spawn would ever be reduced to doing that kind of work, right?

    • ihatemenwhohatewomen says:

      01:31pm | 11/03/10

      i think you’ll find that the Rudd government scheme can be split between both parents

    • Melanie says:

      02:48pm | 11/03/10

      Jane, ever heard of immigration? The earth is already over-populated.

    • Fren says:

      09:57am | 11/03/10

      Its an interesting topic, I have recently read a report on the effect on paid maternity leave in Sweden and the effects it has not just on the family but the effects on the country as a whole. 

      Its reporting that the social impact of having 2 parent working full time directly impacting on more child hood mental illness, anti social behaviour and poorer results in schooling etc etc. Now I take this with a grain of salt because Australia has suffered all these things as well with out the maternity leave.  But interesting comment made was those women who didnt go back to work and stayed home to look after the kids were considered lazy and dole bludgers. Which is a great concern. I not getting into the debate weather the family is at the core of society or not. But I would have thought that a nations wealth and productivity should include the health of its children.  I would suggest that the best thing for children is to have either mum or dad home or a grand parent, aunt or uncle.

      Alot of the push for maternity leave comes from the productivity commission in Australia it only looks at the $$$

    • Peter says:

      01:51pm | 11/03/10

      Yes your right Kylie, the health of a nation children is important, but tax dollars are intended for our most vulerable, not for rich people who can already afford it. I can tell you right now, that I will not be employing women of a child bearing age, i will never do it because it is so unfair on the tax payer. This culture of asking for hand outs must stop. We can all help eachother in providing good education for all our kids, and quality healthcare for all our citizens, but after that Kylie, something called personal responsibility comes into it. Dependence on Government is not healthy for the individual..

    • rene says:

      05:05pm | 11/03/10

      About the comment, “but tax dollars are intended for our most vulerable”
      I have read this type of comment from more than a few
      But
      Is that why there is negative gearing ? Insulation rebates? Solar rebates?  Note, there is already maternity already available to most women who work in the public sector.
      I just cannot understand the vitriole and downright hostility that I read about in regards to families who have children.  To you all, if your parents had all thought as you all do then you would not be around would do.

    • Peter says:

      09:22am | 12/03/10

      What are you talking about Rene? If my parents thought like some of the woman do on this page, i’d be living in Byron Bay on the dole, while you stupid fools let me get away with it.. I agree with you on rebates etc, we don’t need them, its not my job to put solar panels on your house. These are good ecomonic decision all people should be making without government help. As I said, this largesse has gone too far..

    • Jack says:

      10:17am | 11/03/10

      Yes they will be the losers as our company is starting now to employ mostly males and older people. Now we are planing to split the company between our five children to avoid paying for this stupid plan.
      It is bit inconvenience but we are not going to pay for someones children.
      If everyone pay for the maternity leave then it is fine, but as a principle we refuse to be punished for something it is not our fault.

    • yut says:

      10:36am | 11/03/10

      Well our children might refuse to use your company’s services if that’s your attitude. You see, we live in a society, without children you’ll have zero customers in the future - if you don’t support the next generation then you’re simply using the society for your own selfish reasons.

    • Rob says:

      10:20am | 11/03/10

      Yes girls, and while you are on maternity leave the male full time workers will do your jobs, then step aside for you on your return and watch you get promoted, while the contractors you deal with will continue to contact the male because he will be at work, and not the subject of a recorded phone message while she does job sharing or flexible hours. Of course with our education system the next graduate to be employed in a professional field will be female and the cycle start again.

      Meanwhile the man will stay in a failed marriage because to leave will see him financially devastated losing his assets, super and paying child support, let alone contact with his children.

      Fundamentally, society history has never seen a more priveleged group than western (read Australian) women. Nor have we seen a group subject to such such culpable demise as Australian white males. Frankly it is offensive. We should remember, albeit with some failures, that men have provided the structure for all great civilisations including ours. And for thse who wish to rabbit on about men creating wars, try Margaret Thatcher who sacrificed numerous English and Argentinian males, all in the name of a poplitical exercise. Maternity leave is an equally abhorrent political exercise pandering to half of society, so if they lose out who cares. The money would be better spent on aboriginals or some other deserving cause like infrastructure, but not to families for example with two incomes with ambivalence to others with real disadvantage. 

      And yes, our society is still progressing at a wonderful pace but only for just over half of it, and going backwards for just under the other half of it. Gender cleansing at its best.

    • enuff already says:

      10:23am | 11/03/10

      I don’t agree with any paternity or maternity leave at all.  Why should an employer still pay someone for not working in their business - but staying at home with baby.  Employers find it hard enough most of the time without this extra burden.  They too have families and debts and mortgages - so why oh why should they be responsible for someone elses?  Why should we the taxpayer be responisble for someone elses choices?  I have had enough of the bloodsucking population just take, take, take.  There is a limit to what we poor bloody taxpayers can do.  Just because we have had our children and they are now grown up (yes, we stayed at home, struggled through 17-18% interest on mortgage repayments with one wage and no government help) does not mean we should now be responsible for the next spoilt brat generation who wants everything given to them on a plate.
      Fair go people.  There IS an end to the rope and there IS NOT a bottomless pit of taxpayer money.
      Grow up and be responsible for your own choices.  Get yourselves prepared for your time off after baby and stop expecting other people to support you.

    • yut says:

      11:04am | 11/03/10

      It’s your duty to support the next generation of Australians. If you don’t care about Australia’s future why should our kids care about your future health bills and pensions.

      We’ve set up a system that requires two incomes to pay the bills and by a house. This has proved unsustainable and harmful to mothers, fathers and children. So now the society is required to fix the problem that we created.

    • loxy says:

      11:20am | 11/03/10

      Enuff, I hate to tell you but all employers already pay for times their staff don’t work i.e. 4 weeks holiday leave per year and 10 days sick leave. And we as taxpayers also already pay for people’s lifestyle choices, i.e. smokers and obese people put enormous strain on our health system costing taxpayers a fortune.

      I’m not making an argument for maternity leave as I’m not really sure what my opinion is on this topic. I just wanted to make the point that we all resent having to pay for people’s lifestyle choices but that’s the reality of our country.

    • enuf already says:

      01:40pm | 11/03/10

      Yut, my duty to the next generation is to supply essential services (hospitals and the like) it is NOT to pay for them or anyone else to stay home and look after the children they made a choice to have.  I don’t mind “helping” people out who need a hand - that is human nature - but to support people only because they have had a baby is asking a little too much from the ordinary folk - in my opinion.
      Loxy, yes we get paid holiday leave, sick leave etc - but when you are employed the employer already knows that that is going to be an expenditure.  Does this mean that any woman who is of child bearing age will be more difficult to employ because of the possibility of supporting them for six months when they decide to have a child.  I am NOT arguing that people should not be assisted - just that it should be “assistance” and not supporting a lifestyle choice.  I agree with you that people who are smokers, alcoholics, drug addicts and obese have also chosen this lifestyle - to a certain degree - but that is not the issue of discussion and will reserve my opinion for that forum.

    • Mainwhistle says:

      10:16pm | 11/03/10

      I agree withenuff already , we have done our bit to help this country,and we helped ourselves and our familes as well. As for pensions, sorry mate most of us have super and we will not get the pension. I have private health which I intened to keep after I retire. So explain again why we should continue to help you? Its time you all grew up and realised if your adult enough to have children, your adult enough to look after them and not expect handouts from taxpayers. The politican who says “no More” will be flooded with votes many of us are disgusted in these handouts

    • Tom says:

      10:35am | 11/03/10

      Only in a latte nanny state could this sort of bizarre debate be possible. Think about it, ... you hire someone to mow your lawns at $70 per week. They tell you, “ha, ha, ha, the jokes on you, I won’t mow your lawns, I’ve got a baby to look after, but you still have to pay me $70 per week for half a year”.

    • cats says:

      11:01am | 11/03/10

      I want to know why they are only offering maternity leave. Why can’t they call it Parental Leave and give the parents a choice over which parent stays at home and which one works. I know that the majority of families will choose the mother to stay at home, but I know that many fathers would love to look after their children instead of going to work. Otherwise it’s just a sexist plan.

      I actually like this idea proposed by Tony Abbott, which is funny as I barely ever agree with him. To “angry taxpayers” and the like - I think society needs to understand that bringing up children is a vital role for our country, and parents should get all the support possible. Even if you don’t want to have children, you should still be able to see the importance of ensuring that they are brought up in the best way possible.

    • Alexey says:

      11:05am | 11/03/10

      I definitely see a problem here. In Russia where I am originally from, if you are a young married woman with no kids, no one will EVER hire you. This is because employers are obliged by law to keep the position and pay at least minimum wage for up to 1 year of maternity leave. Businesses are simply not interested in that and in 99% prefer to hire males instead. As a result, most young women are forced to jump to marriage and have kids straight after graduation. I admit, men and women aren’t really equal in Russia, but although this legislation is supposed to protect women, as a side effect it permanently damages their careers.

      My wife and I want to have a child soon, but if this is going to affect her position on the job market, I would rather stick to single income for a couple of years.

    • YipeeDoo says:

      12:37pm | 11/03/10

      Ironically I was going to vote Liberal, simply because I am so sick of others with children getting a huge slice of my tax Dollars while I seem to get nothing.
      But Tony Abbott has shocked and disgusted me. Hes gone against everything he said in the past. Rudd’s plan actually seems conservative compared to Abbotts and I will vote for Rudd . Anyone in Government with the balls to say enough is enough will get my vote and I bet the votes of many many others. Do they realize how many Australians think this baby bonus and maternity leave is a rort and do they even care?

    • Kylie says:

      12:54pm | 11/03/10

      If paid parental leave were to be funded directly by the employer, as and when their employee had a child (simliarly to annual leave, paid as and when people go on holidays),  there would be a clear impact on employment rates for women of child-bearing age. Many companies would simply not employ young women, because of the incovenience of having to directly pay an absent employee’s salary for up to 6 months at a time.

      However, if the scheme were to be funded through a centralised system - funded via a levy on all businesses, or on big-business as proposed by the Opposition, or on a tax/levy to all taxpayers via income tax - business would have no reason to discriminate against employing women of child-bearing age. They would effectively be paying for parental leave, regardless of whether their employees were benefiting from such a scheme.

      There would still be an inconvenience of having to hold a position open for 12months, while the parent is on leave; however this is no change from the current status-quo and will not impose an additional burden on businesses.

      Having said that, I am not convinced that forcing employers to provide flexible and/or part-time working hours for parents returning from leave will benefit anybody.

      I believe the parent’s original employment position should be held for them to return to… however if the parent wishes to return to a different arrangement (say, part-time or different hours), this should be open for negotiation between individual employers/employees. If the employer is unwilling to negotiate or agree, the employee will have to bite the bullet and decide whether to return to their full-time position, or to find another, more suitable job.

    • Peter says:

      01:07pm | 11/03/10

      Oh, if women don’t get my taxpayer money they will be ‘victims’ again. Look at me, my husband is earning $300k a year but labour won’t give me $150,000 to have a baby, im such a victim. Oh the discrimination look at me everyone im a victim, poor me, i just took my ex to the cleaners after cheating on him with another man, but look at me everyone, im a victim. Me poor victim, help me Mr Government, I want more, because Im a victim…

    • ihatemenwhohatewomen says:

      01:40pm | 11/03/10

      @ray 10.23 On your logic (that all women are hideous, selfish, bloodsucking parasites) I would like to make the following point.

      All men are wife beating, ignorant shi!s who make terrible fathers.

      The level of misogyny on this thread (not to mention ‘mother hating’) is absolutely astounding.

    • Peter says:

      01:45pm | 11/03/10

      What’s wrong love? Do you want more of other peoples money? Do you feel like a victim if you don’t get the $150,000 Tony Abbott promised you. Re you point, my father was a very gentle loving man, and my mum (who I still love) was an abusive child beating bitch. But you only want to see one side of the story…

    • Ray says:

      01:55pm | 11/03/10

      Thanks to Ihatewhatever (2:40). Re your first para: Precisely, I hate all women who hate men. Re your second para: thats the doctrine that all women are brought up on. Re your third para. The oxford dictionary does not have an antonym for misogyny. (Misandry is haters of mankind) . So therefore in long hand I am appalled at the level of man hating by women in our society .

      The Defence rests its case.

      And a closing word; yes men really have had a gut full.

    • ihatemenwhohatewomen says:

      02:02pm | 11/03/10

      You presume I am a woman, Peter.

      I don’t doubt that there are horrible parents and partners out there of both sexes. I was merely commenting on the rabid misogyny in the thread today. It’s very juvenile to suggest that because you have had a bad experience with your mother/partner that all women are selfish, horrible etc etc.

      I think that society should support parents to bring up their children in a way that enhances child wellbeing while still allowing both parents (presuming there are two) to retain their employment. I also don’t think either parent should be disadvantaged in terms of superannuation and HECS repayments, for example.

      Resume frothing all!

    • Peter says:

      02:34pm | 11/03/10

      What now? It’s not enough that I pay for your kids to go to primary school, high school and heath care, you want more hand outs for your HECS? Tertiary qualified people earn more money than those who didn’t go to university but you think the rest of us should give you more money? Look, if an employer wanted to pay a woman maternaty leave I would not have a problem with it, just not through the tax system. Yes, create a culture that encourages the healthy upbringing of kids, but that does not mean that I should be giving rich people money they don’t need. Can you imagine the “A CLASS” education and health systems we would have if it wasn’t for excessive welfare. I believe in looking after the vulnerable and am happy for my tax dollars to help, but we all have to be reasonable. Dependance on government is not healthy for the individual and its a bad way to bring up you kids.  If Tony Abbott was able to find $75,000 for this, then surely we have always been able to afford to provide our poor and elderly with proper dental care as well. I think we should look at our priorities…

    • Tom says:

      05:30pm | 11/03/10

      Most men only hate the sense of entitlement women bring to these debates. “Misogyny” is just another word like “genocide” and “racist”. It is used by people such as yourelf when your weak arguments don’t carry the day.

    • Rocket Surgeon says:

      07:44pm | 11/03/10

      Oh ffs, This is some of the most outrageous (that’s how you spell it Peter) dribble I have ever read. You lot need to harden up. So a woman did you wrong. Get over it. You just sound like the biggest bunch of whinny losers.

    • Peter says:

      09:15am | 12/03/10

      Thanks for correcting my spelling Rocket Surgeon. Im not talking about a woman who did me wrong, she did a lot of good also. Im talking about rich people asking Government for money they don’t need. If you can’t see the wrong in that, then I fear for where we are headed..

    • Libby Eggins says:

      09:05pm | 11/03/10

      I have been an employer ( in a small business) and I am currently an employee.
      I know which one I would rather be if Mr. Abbott’s maternity leave plan eventuates!

    • julia says:

      04:10am | 13/03/10

      The author is right, but only in times of high unemployment. Not sure what the Brits are experiencing at the moment in terms of unemployment, but when it runs between 5-6%, it’s not really going to be an issue.

    • Jimmy says:

      11:04pm | 11/06/10

      I was hired on a contract.  I didn’t realise until today that the real reason why I was hired was to relief a female staff who is on a maternity leave.  I think this is totally unfair for me because no matter how diligently I work, and how much time I study the organisation, in the end, I will loose my job when she returns back to the workplace.

      I think there should be a system where once a person is on a maternity leave, that person should just receive a lump sum, and quit the job. 

      Why be greedy and hog the job? It’s just not fair for current collegues because of the increase work load.  At work, I see managers doing admin work due to lack of staff.

      And it’s also unfair for new employees, like myself who are treated like a “substitute” to fill in for those on maternity leave.
      My contract will expire soon, which means that I will have to start looking for another job and I’ll have to start everything from scratch again.

 

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