Cory Bernardi is our very own Charlie Sheen

ian m says:

02:54pm | 09/03/11

Why whats wrong with the concerns of a large number of Australian citizens being aired. from what i understand this is still a free country not run by a dictator or Mullahs. At least we have one senator willing to air public grevances despite real death threats unlike someone who will remain nameless as he is so sensative to critacism.

Zac de Spudnut says:

04:23pm | 09/03/11

And as Cory Bernardi is actually Australia’s Sarah Palin>>>

Whats wrong with Sarah Palin? She is more experienced and smart than that “hopey changey” Hollywood representative. Obama only made it to the top because he is 50% black. But here is a woman who rose up from grass roots movement. If democracy is for the people and by the people then why is the media and lefties scared about her?. The leftist trick is to isolate, label and attack. You would be advised to read more about this women and you are underestimating her at your peril.

http://www.sarahpac.com/about

It’s also impossible to argue that Islam isn’t totalitarian (and the argument naturally extends to other monolithic religions). Islam and Christianity, for example, both require subservience to an authoritarian God

Religion has been immune from criticism for too long, and given the reaction to Bernardi, it will be sacrosanct for some time yet.>>>

Brendan neatly exposes his agenda. For him Cory Bernardi is a vehicle to attack religion. Like other Atheists the larger goal is to attack -hiding behind Islam - Christianity . If people like Brendan would listen carefully to Sam Harris they will understand how utterly defeating (read why towards the end and read Harris’ article)  this strategy is.

Then again I am not surprised to hear this from a guy who writes for “The Humanist magazine” and thinks an Atheist prime minister is good for Australia.

Brendan, you say “Islam and Christianity, for example, both require subservience to an authoritarian God”. Well, I am certainly not a fan of Islam but the truth is this: “Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades.

It’s time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.”

http://atheisticviolence.wordpress.com/2007/12/04/atheism-not-religion-is-the-force-behind-the-mass-murders-of-history/

Jotun says:

08:12pm | 09/03/11

Zac mate, we find it hard to forget Senator Palin’s interview during the presidential campaign where she lost the plot.

You are like Eric(k), SSR, acotrel, Joan, persephone - always looking for your favorite agenda. Sure, atheists target Christianity as a negative influence. We also attack Islam (like Brendan has here), Judeaism, and other pervasive religious ideas when we take issue with them. Jesus isn’t special, he’s just another business which has to disappear.

Economist says:

08:13pm | 09/03/11

Spudnut providing a link to an article with the words atheist violence in the http address generally indicates that it’s got an agenda an no basis in fact. A quick read confirms this.

acotrel says:

04:14am | 10/03/11

@Zac ‘Whats wrong with Sarah Palin?’

You actually have to ask?

Tedd says:

04:18am | 10/03/11

Sarah Palin was only thrust onto the central stage because she was picked to run with John McCain, probably as a foil for him being an aging conservative male.  She is not smart.

Simplistic dogma about the roles of doctrinal and totalitarian systems and death are rather tedious, Zac.

Tedd says:

04:30am | 10/03/11

Zac, Brendan may be a Christian Humanist?

or even a secular Christian?

Barry says:

07:34am | 10/03/11

Dear Zac de Spudnut,

I stopped reading your comments when I reached the line suggesting that Sarah Palin was “smart”.

You may be living in an alternate universe.

Jay says:

01:07pm | 10/03/11

Precisely.
Islam is not a race any more than Nazism is (sorry Godwin) otherwise by logic, you’re more racist for disliking the Nazis as they were predominantly Germanic.

Islam should be criticised, just like any other ideology that incites hatred, violence, racism and sexism - and its foolish to consider all religions equal for that matter.

fairsfair says:

02:59pm | 09/03/11

Did we read the same article? The only thing it mentions in relation to coalition policy is “...Australians can afford a small rise in electricity prices”. I disagree with that, but it is hardly the crux of the article…

If anything I think it is positive toward Bernardi. It covers the fact that comments (of any kind) should not simply be discarded, but addressed, as if you scratch below the surface you often find that there is *some* truth (without malice) in there somewhere. I interpret it to mean that even if you disagree with someone else’s truth at least they have the guts to tell it.

I don’t like Charlie Sheen - he is a train wreck, but he is perhaps more human than other celebrities as he is open about his faults. Something people would respect in our politicians.

john says:

03:35pm | 09/03/11

@ poa
“I hope Cory Bernadi sues the crap out of you for comparing him to a drug addled whore chaser.”

-here tissue -dry your eyes, its ok… its ok, settle pettle, liberals have won in VIC, will cleanup NSW in a few weeks and will demolish labor when double dissolution kicks in by the end of the year, haven’t you seen the polls?

bobw says:

03:02pm | 09/03/11

@TracyH:  Sharia law?  I suspect Zaf was getting at something else.  See -

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/call-for-a-peoples-revolution-20110304-1bi1v.html

Zaf says:

03:23pm | 09/03/11

[Sharia Law will be mandated eventually unless we do analyse all aspects of the cultural beliefs that stem from this religion. ]

WHY do you think sharia law will be mandated in Australia, ever, given that Muslims are less than 2% of the population and sharia law is universally unpopular with the other 98%?  Given these two basic facts, tell me why your fear isn’t hysterical.

NB Cory Bernardi isn’t like Sarah Palin because he questions things, he’s like Sarah Palin because he’s good looking and ignorant, and his questions are based on both faulty logic and stupid assumptions.

eg Sarah Palin supports abstinence based sex ed for teenagers.  She supports this despite widespread evidence that it doesn’t work - one piece of data supporting that finding being her own daughter falling pregnant in High School.  Maybe if Sarah had funded a decent sex ed program, including info on condoms and such, that wouldn’t have happened.  Statistics support this view.  Palin’s continued support for abstinence is both illogical (given the facts), it’s based on dumb assumptions.

Bernardi’s claim to fame was his ‘ban the burka’ stunt, whose objective was to ‘free Muslim women in Australia’.  Increasing a woman’s freedom by actually reducing her freedom to choose what she wears is not just illogical, it’s based on the dumb assumption that telling women what to wear can be liberating for them.  Now you see the similarity?

Regards

interloper says:

03:33pm | 09/03/11

TracyH, it is entirely possible to have even a large Islamic population without Sharia law. Look at, oh, I don’t know, Turkey? Indonesia?

Cultural beliefs do not, by and large, stem from religion. Religion often absorbs cultural beliefs, but not generally the other way around.

noguaranteeofsanity says:

03:50pm | 09/03/11

Can you name one political party or politician who has gone to an election, at state or federal level, with the promise of introducing Sharia law?  I have no problem questioning Islam, or any other religion; in fact it should be encouraged.  While I would oppose the introduction of Sharia law as well and I’m certainly not a right wing conservative, in fact quite the opposite. 

However, we have a democratic country and I doubt any politician or party could even be elected, if they were to try and introduce Sharia law.  You are never going to convince the 98 percent of Australians who are not Muslim, to vote for that, let alone the 50 percent you would need to form a government.  Even Fred Nile or Family First running on a mostly Christian platform, who far outnumber Muslims in this country, have struggled to win a single seat.

Neil Campbell says:

04:14pm | 09/03/11

Zaf - you have spectacularily displayed your illogic - saying Sarah Palin’s abstinence program does not work shows you do not know what you rabbit on about - to not have sex is to not get pregnant or catch a sexually transmitted disease - get it! You also tell a half truth, when the abstinence program is presented, you are given options eg. no sex - no worries; have plenty of sex, pleasure yes, associated problems a real possibility - pregnancies, possible termination, possible diseases and then the huge emtional cost of partner separation - harder for women, as they commit quicker than the ruthless fornicating male - it’s all about REAL CHOICE Zaf - I think even you would understand that! The other issue is that Islam is growing fast in the West and COULD become a real problem for your freedoms down the track Mr.Zaffster!

Zac de Spudnut says:

04:42pm | 09/03/11

Zaf,

WHY do you think sharia law will be mandated in Australia, ever, given that Muslims are less than 2% of the population and sharia law is universally unpopular with the other 98%?  Given these two basic facts, tell me why your fear isn’t hysterical.>>>

Firstly why do we need Muslims in this country? Why can’t they head to Islamic countries like Kuwait, Qatar, U.A.E or Saudi Arabia? Tell a contribution from Muslims we can’t live with out? You say 98% percent of Australians oppose Sharia Law. Tell me this, do you think Greenies and the Labor left will oppose Sharia Law if introduced in Australia? I don’t think so. They will tell you it is all about tolerance. So thats roughly 30% who support Sharia Law. Here is why Tracy is not hysterical and it is good idea to read, learn and think beyond what leftist ideologists taught you..

“In Australia, the Muslim community will grow from about 399,000 to 714,000 by 2030, an increase of 80 per cent.

This trend is even more dramatic in New Zealand, where there will be a 150 per cent rise in residents who adhere to Islam.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/muslim-numbers-to-rise-80pc-in-20-years/story-e6frg6nf-1225996403047

It’s even worse in U.K and Europe.

Zaf says:

05:06pm | 09/03/11

Neil

“to not have sex is to not get pregnant “

But teenagers tend to have sex anyway.  Surely some information about condoms would be a good thing.  Abstinence education seems unrealistic in the real world, not because it’s facts are ‘wrong’, but because teenagers tend to have sex.  If teenagers were different, then Abstinence Education might work.  Since they actually are the way they are, it doesn’t.

Example 1: The Queen of Abstinence Education’s daughter fell pregnant in High School.  Presumably she got plenty of abstinence education.  Presumably she had sex anyway.  Without a condom.  Educators (and her mother) being unrealistic about teenagers failed that child.  And being unrealistic about human sexuality as a matter of policy, to uphold a principle, seems particularly nutty.

I note (with surprise) that you don’t explain how Bernardi’s ‘limiting a woman’s right to make choices actually increases her right to make choices’ gig makes any kind of sense.  Doesn’t it?  Seems stupid and illogical to me.  Can you explain why it isn’t?

Regards

Dan says:

05:33am | 10/03/11

TraceyH, if you honestly think that Sharia Law will be introduced any time soon, you are being hysterical and you are a redneck.

de Spudnut- “Firstly why do we need Muslims in this country? Why can’t they head to Islamic countries like Kuwait, Qatar, U.A.E or Saudi Arabia?”

Why do we need bigots like you? Why can’t you head over to KKK country?

Make no mistake about it, Muslims have AS MUCH right to come here as anyone else!

“Tell a contribution from Muslims we can’t live with out?”

We can live without Muslims less than I can live without people like you!

“In Australia, the Muslim community will grow from about 399,000 to 714,000 by 2030, an increase of 80 per cent.”

Really? Fantastic!!!

“This trend is even more dramatic in New Zealand, where there will be a 150 per cent rise in residents who adhere to Islam.”

Awesome, I’m so envious!

“It’s even worse in U.K and Europe”

You mean, it’s even better!

acotrel says:

08:30am | 10/03/11

@TracyH - did you object when the leaders of the catholic church screwed up Australian politics for their own ends?

Ando says:

11:11am | 10/03/11

Zac de Spudnut ,
“Tell me this, do you think Greenies and the Labor left will oppose Sharia Law if introduced in Australia? I don’t think so. ”
How could anyone be so out of touch with reality. Can you supply any evidence to back up this claim. I’m not a fan of the Greens and the Labour left but you really need to calm down.

Interloper says:

03:35pm | 09/03/11

Or maybe he was choosing his words carefully because when you’re defence minister poorly chosen words can have significant adverse consequences? Just a possibility.

RobJ says:

04:45pm | 09/03/11

Exactly interloper, this is why Smith is an effective minister, he doesn’t shoot from the hip.

iansand says:

05:13pm | 09/03/11

He was choosing his words carefully to say absolutely nothing.  In fact there were so many circumlocutions, triple negatives and general gobbledegook that I am still not sure what he was saying, or why he was saying it.  As best I can work it out he was excusing outright lies by his underlings.  How hard, and how dangerous, would it be to say “I was misled, and I have taken steps to discipline those who misled me.  I have also taken steps to ensure that it will not happen again.”

Zeta says:

03:54pm | 09/03/11

Two of them were from Ananda Marga, the Path of Bliss - Yogis.

Gary says:

06:48pm | 09/03/11

Matthew says:02:47pm | 09/03/11

“But when you look at the facts, Cori is absolutely correct.

The facts are that out of 20 people in our jails on terrorist charges, all are Islamic.
The facts are that of all potential terrorist threats to this country, all are from Islam.”  and so on.

Just wondering Mathew, where exactly is Islam? Can you indicate where I might find Islam on a map please?

Actually I was of the impression that a number of our alleged terrorists were home grown, Australian born.

Economist says:

08:45pm | 09/03/11

What’s a rational debate? Seriously there are plenty of opportunities for you to express your opinion and plenty of media outlets. The left are not trying to shut you up. Polls show you concerns to be valid as the majority of Australians feel some apprehension, but the facts speak for themselves.

Take a look at the real stats
- 50% of the population wasn’t born here or had a parent that wasn’t born here.
- the highest rate of interracial marriage.
- take a look at the list of Australians of the year an nominees, read their bios.

Show me Bernardi’s research that you talk about? based on your example I could equally argue that 20 people out of a population of 180000 is bugger all.

The fact is immigration has been hugely successful. So in order to stir the pot, Bernardi’s problem is multiculturalism, not multi-racialism, which many conservative argue is the preferred policy.  However name me one country that has a multiracial policy? Oh I suppose we could go with countries that have large expat populations (Singaore, UAE), but this isn’t immigration but labour exchange. Or we could pick a few North European countries (Norway Sweden), but there immigration programs are so small and guess what they still have ethnic tensions. Or some would argue the US is multiracial as the immigrants their are required to swear allegiance to the country and follow the American dream, yet there are Cuban, Mexican and African American enclaves and crime rates are high among these populations.

So based on this the only solution is no immigration. Well if that’s what you want say goodbye to economic prosperity.   

I have no interest in telling you everything is fine, because there are examples and issues, some of which you’ve identified. But I’m happy to tell you the problem as you see it, is exaggerated. Immigration/multiculturalism/multi-racialism, whatever you want to call it, has been the backbone to Australia’s success.

Economist says:

09:56pm | 09/03/11

Sorry that should have been 380000 not 180000. But it brings me to my next point of Bernardi’s and that being Muslims. As Brendan highlights “It’s also impossible to argue that Islam isn’t totalitarian….Islam and Christianity, for example, both require subservience to an authoritarian God and the unadulterated worship of seemingly mortal prophets”.

Well Christianity used to be totalitarian So why the difference now? Well it evolved. It’s power base, the Catholic Church, had such broad coverage across Europe that it fractured into various denominations, where as Islam was conquered and it’s power reduced, hence it stayed centralised. Christianity has over 2000 denominations and they argue amongst themselves continuously. The same cannot be said for Islam. Islam still has a powerful role in the management of key States (Iran, UAE etc). There are few exceptions to separation of church and state. These being Turkey and Indonesia.

Yet of the Muslim population of around 380000 how many are from Turkey/Indonesia? Do we attract these moderates more? We have around 80000 Indonesian immigrants, how many of these follow the Islamic faith? In fact the top 25 countries from which we receive immigrants (Country of Birth data), Indonesia is the only Muslim country in this list, though Muslims from the former Yugoslavia could also be also included.

So yes Islam is different, Islam is dictatorial, but we don’t have 380000 terrorists or criminals waiting to takeover. Get a grip Cori Bernardi and understand that despite Islam’s short comings there are moderates and non-practising, from various countries who are more than willing to make Australia their home and tow our line.

Matthew says:

07:15am | 10/03/11

@Gary.  No it is not a place, but both you and I know that was not the intention of my post.

Islam is an ideology.  Nice try to deflect from IT being the cause of our terrorism issues though, but FAIL.  It is, go and check our very own’s Govt. report on local terrorist activity ... see which ideology pops up EXCLUSIVELY.

Peter says:

04:01pm | 09/03/11

Because Christians are’nt making terror threats against Australia

RickyB says:

04:13pm | 09/03/11

And how many Christians do you see in Australian jails for Terrrorism charges Bryndal…?Unlike yourself, Cory Bernadi hasnt stuck his head in his A*s & can see what a negative, discusting ideology islam is & says what many, many Australians feel.Good on him.

Bryndal says:

04:20pm | 09/03/11

@Peter
And there have been no threats to blow up abortion clinics made by Christians? Northern Ireland?  There is evil in people who follow all religions - no 1 religion has a monoploy on terror or godliness

Tedd says:

04:25am | 10/03/11

Peter, wishing Hell on gullible non-adherents is a terror threat

Dan says:

05:40am | 10/03/11

RickyB, how many terrorist attacks have there been?

“Unlike yourself, Cory Bernadi hasnt stuck his head in his A*s & can see what a negative, discusting ideology islam is & says what many, many Australians feel.Good on him. “

I know you’re a loathsome bigot, but at least learn to spell. It’s spelt disgusting, which is what you are!!!!

Neil Campbell says:

04:31pm | 09/03/11

Our Law of this land stems from British Common Law and it is all based on the the Holy Bible - yes laws have changed and by man, but predominately the law we have, with an emphasis on social justice, tolerance and compassion is straight from the Gospels. Are you afraid of truth? Truth is objective; not subjective as you would like - I’ll prove it, child sex pornography is certainly abhorent, wrong, bad, dare I say a sin? I’m sure you would agree, as would 99.9% of people - but a small minority is pushing for legislation to be changed to have sex with kids under 12 in Holland - it is either wrong or right, no middle ground, but as you know, it always starts with a minority, with an agenda to push the boundaries. Lastly, the truth & reality of Christianity is seen in that it is the most debased, criticised and mocked religion in the West, there is something people HATE about it - it is simple, they, like Charlie Sheen love darkness.

P. Darvio says:

01:38pm | 10/03/11

The age of consent in one of the “holiest” places of Christianity used to be 12 years - it is now 14 but can be as low as 13 years in certain Circumstances - that place is the Vatican (rogue) State (I though they were all virgins..?).

So 13 year old Christian boys and Christian girls can have sex legally on Vatican land providing:

1. They don’t use any contraception – BECAUSE CONTRACEPTION IS A SIN !!!
2. That they have sex to make little Christian babies.

Yes the truth is out there…..

Dan says:

08:36pm | 09/03/11

If you think he is a legend, you need a reality check.

“many Australian knows islam has no place in Australia”

Islam has as much right to be in Australia as Christianity!

“a walk down the crime ridden cesspool of Lakemba to see what happens to an area when muslims live in numbers”

Yoiuu honestly think the crime is because of Islam? You are so ignorant it’s incredible. I bet you have never met a Muslim in your entire life!!!

Matt says:

07:01am | 10/03/11

Dan, I don’t know where you get the idea that it’s everybody’s “right” to live in Australia and Islam has a “right” to be in Australia.

I think it’s time to ask all would be residents what they will contribute to our society before they can consider it their right to live here.

In the early days of building our society the Christian churches educated, fed and built hospitals for the poor, no matter what their religion. Christian charities continue to make an enormous contribution.

It would be helpful to our society and assist in a greater acceptance of Islam, if Islamic leaders looked at ways to contribute to their new society.

Dan says:

08:09pm | 10/03/11

Matt, my point is that nobody has a right to say that Islam doesn’t have a place in Australia, when Islam does have a ‘right’ to exist in Australia as much as Christianity. This is not a Christian nation.

“It would be helpful to our society and assist in a greater acceptance of Islam, if Islamic leaders looked at ways to contribute to their new society. “

Oh, please, they already contribute as much as they need to. BTW, for many Islamic leaders, this isn’t their new society; many Islamic leaders have been here as long as you and other people have!

But really, do you think that Sikhs or Buddhists would be accepted more if Sikh/Buddhist leaders ‘looked at ways to contribute to their new society’? People need to accept Islam because not to do so is bigotry!

Matt says:

11:54am | 11/03/11

Modern Australia is a Christian nation founded by Christians and built on Christian principles. As are most Western nations. Each session of our Parliament is opened with the Lord’s Prayer.

We do however have a very deliberate and successful separation of religion and state so that the churches do not actually run the Government.

You would do well to do some research and gain a greater understanding of the society you live in before demanding your rights.

If Islamic communities are doing as much as they need to to contribute to our broader society they should make their contribution more widely known. I can’t name one positive from the expansion of Islam in Australia and unfortunately many negatives spring to mind. I would be happy to be corrected on this. That’s my point - the negatives are all too obvious, the positives basically unknown.

Dan says:

03:26pm | 11/03/11

“Modern Australia is a Christian nation founded by Christians and built on Christian principles. “

Uh, no, it’s not. It’s not a Christian nation at all. The people who funded it may have nominally Christian, but that is meaningless. Australia is not a Christian nation in the slightest!

“Each session of our Parliament is opened with the Lord’s Prayer. “

Irrelevant.

“You would do well to do some research and gain a greater understanding of the society you live in before demanding your rights.”

LOL. You are telling ME to do some research, yet you think Australia is a Christian nation? Matt you need to do some reseach yourself and stop with this Christian nonsence, before you tell others to ‘o some research and gain a greater understanding of the society you live in’. You clearly don’t know the first thing about Australia.

Whether you like it or not, Muslims have as much right to live in Australia (a non-Christian nation) as Christian!

“f Islamic communities are doing as much as they need to to contribute to our broader society they should make their contribution more widely known. “

Perhaps you are not the arbitor of whom is contributing positively or not.

“I can’t name one positive from the expansion of Islam in Australia and unfortunately many negatives spring to mind.”

So, I can’t name a single positive from people like you. So what is your point?!

“i would be happy to be corrected on this.”

Again, you are not the arbitor.

“That’s my point - the negatives are all too obvious, the positives basically unknown.”

Really? Perhaps you could do some research into Australian Islam and meet some Muslims.

Perhaps you could do some research and gain an understanding into the society you choose to live in; Australia is not Christian and Muslims have as much right to be here as Christians or anyone else! You also do not get to determine who contributes positively or negatively, and whom deserves to live here!

Matt says:

06:34pm | 11/03/11

Dan, you’re ignorant and you’re arrogant. Unfortunately you add weight to Cory Bernardi’s argument that Islam has no place in Australia.

Dan says:

10:50pm | 11/03/11

“Dan, you’re ignorant and you’re arrogant.”

Ignorant? I’m not the one who thinks that Australia is a Christian country!!! As for arrogance, I’m not the one who think that I’m the arbitor of who contributes positively or not. I will say this; if being more intelligent than you, and knowing more about Australia (which is NOT a Christian country) makes me arrogant, so be it.

” Unfortunately you add weight to Cory Bernardi’s argument that Islam has no place in Australia.”

Really? How so? Islam has AS much place in Australia as Christianity and ignorant bigots like you! In fact, if there isn’t a place for anything, it’s people like you.

BTW, I’m not Muslim!

Dan says:

02:11am | 12/03/11

Matt says-

“Dan, you’re ignorant and you’re arrogant.”

Ignorant? God no, that would be you, who seems to think Australia is a Christian country! Arrogant? If arrogance is knowing I am more intelligent than you, then guilty as charged.

BTW, considering that you think you have the right to judge whom deserves to be in this country, the real arrogant one is you!

“Unfortunately you add weight to Cory Bernardi’s argument that Islam has no place in Australia.”

Why? Because I’m not an ignorant bigot like you and Bernardi?

Matt, not only am I not Muslim (the fact that you think you can determine my religion proves how dumb you are), but if anyone or anything has no place in Australia, it is arrogant, ignorant bigots who contribute nothing positive to the country whatsoever. Like you and Bernardi! You should be deported!

Zaf says:

09:29am | 10/03/11

@TracyH - a VERY sensible comment, except I truly don’t think Malaysia is that progressive (those bizarre racist laws, just for example) - it’s only progressive when you compare it to other Muslim countries like Saudi.  I am not defending sharia, or customs like GM, but I just don’t see any likelihood of either becoming accepted in Australia.  Focus on real problems, not imaginary or falsely inflated ones.

Dan says:

08:10pm | 10/03/11

Tracey, the reality is that if any religious law will become accepted in Australia, it’s Christian, not Muslim. As a matter of fact, it is unlikely that any religious law will become accepted any time soon.

Dan says:

08:18pm | 10/03/11

Oh, and I know quite a few Muslim women who cover up because they choose to do so.

Jay says:

02:17pm | 10/03/11

1. Except that what is the ‘worship’ of mohammed then? You cant even draw anything depicting his likeness without embassies being burned and people killed? Me thinks you jest.

2. Islam IS struggling with terrorism unless you are choosing to look the other way. Alternatively you could say terrorism is struggling with Islam if it makes you feel more comfortable.

3. Nothing remotely proposterous - the subjugation of women in islamic societies is quite obvious when held up against other cultures. Why the vast majority of the responsibility to uphold these codes is levelled at women rather than the perpetrators. And lets not pretend there isnt high levels of abuse of boys and children - many go unreported for shame (and in the case of the French national who was abducted, raped and dumped back in town - the court case threw it out despite DNA evidence as ‘there is no such thing as male rape, he mustve been gay’ to paraphrase. enlightened family values indeed.

4. Iran anyone? Look what that revolution gave! Why does Spain translate more books into spanish in a single year than the entire arab world has ever? Why despite having 20% of the world population have muslims contributed only a handful of nobel laureates?

it has everything to do with Islam’s stranglehold over its followers.

Dan says:

08:15pm | 10/03/11

Jay:

1)How many people have been killed? How many embassied have been burned? Do you realise that in some European countries, you could go to prison for expressing certain sentiments?

2)Islam is NOT struggling with terrorism. It is called extremism!

3)The so-called subjugation of women has less to do with Islam thn with culture and lack of education.

4)Iran isn’t Muslim. It’s essentially a dictatorship which uses Islam to legitimise its rule, but is not Islamic at all.

“it has everything to do with Islam’s stranglehold over its followers.”

Nonsence. The issue is NOT with Islam, but with extremism and with dictators who exploit Islam!