Nicole Kidman has welcomed a new biological daughter via a ‘gestational carrier’, Princess Mary had her twins in a natural, four-hour birth and Miranda Kerr released a statement that she gave birth to her 9 lbs., 12 oz., baby in a long, arduous and difficult labour ‘naturally, without drugs or painkillers!!!’. 


Miranda No-Painkillers Kerr and baby Flynn

As a mum of three who has been through labour twice, I fully appreciate Miranda’s use of three exclamation marks to describe her drug-free birth.

Gosh, I give myself three for enduring it with drugs and scramble to find enough punctuation to describe the caesarean.  One way you can’t sit down.  The other way you can’t stand up.

There’s no point comparing births, yet many women can’t help themselves. From the moment you see two lines on a stick, you step into a parallel universe inhabited by competitive busy-bodies who think there’s only one way to do things.

Vaginal birth versus caesarean.

Hospital or birthing centre versus homebirth.

Drug-free versus pain-reduced.

And it doesn’t stop there.  Surviving Birth Choices 101 is merely a pre-requisite for the bigger maternal battles ahead: Breast versus bottle. Work versus staying home.  Private versus public versus home-schooling… 

With every baby step that a new mum takes, there’s a fork in the road and a knife at her back.  The latter is often wielded by some woman in a parents’ room or playgroup who wouldn’t know you again if she fell over you but knows this much: you’re doing something differently from her.

Get a group of mums discussing childbirth and the playground-ish ‘mum-upmanship’ is palpable:

‘I was in labour for 18 hours!’

‘I was in labour for two days, and had a c-section at the end of it!!’

‘I did it without drugs!!!’

‘I did it without pain!!!!’

‘I did it in half an hour and only just made it to the hospital!!!!!’

‘I didn’t make it to the hospital at all!!!!!!

‘I did it with triplets!!!!!!!’ 

Apologies for all the exclamation marks.

Some women recognise how fortunate they are when their uncomplicated births go well. Others leap over the unused nitrous-oxide machine like Supermum and tweet about their drug-free deliveries faster than you can yell, ‘Get me the epidural!’ 

“Look at moi, look at moi!  No drugs!” 

Is this a cue for the rest of us to throw ourselves on the floor amidst the discarded pethidine syringes and epidural drip stand and proclaim them stronger women? Better mums? 
Over-the-top reaction, you think? 

I wish it was.  A friend with a medical condition could only have caesareans and was crushed by an unthinking: ‘Too posh to push? I was drug-free, you know. I’d suffer any pain for my child…’ 

Another was snubbed by her pre-natal yoga instructor who – on discovering epidural was involved - quipped, ‘Oh, so were you happy with that medicated birth?’

Then there’s that old chestnut familiar to many a c-section mum: ‘Are you disappointed not to have had a real birth?’ 

Seven layers of your body are sliced through in a caesarean and you’re expected to breastfeed within hours.  How much more real does it get?

Induction and elective caesarean rates are high in Australia, for a mix of medical and ‘social’ reasons.  Inducing to fit in with work commitments and holidays (or, dare I say it, scheduling intervention around parental leave schemes) is playing with fire.

Whether I was a victim or a beneficiary of intervention, I’ve been hauled over the coals for both of these birth choices by other women: 

‘You know it’s possible to have a breech baby vaginally, don’t you?’

‘Sure, there’s a higher risk of stillbirth, but not all insulin-dependent mums have problems with the placenta. Why be induced?  Don’t you want to wait and see?’

Ah, no – I’d rather follow my obstetrician’s advice, thanks.  And why am I being called upon to justify my decision to a complete stranger, anyway?

Speaking of justifying decisions, I can only imagine the flack women must get over ‘lotus birth’.  The theory is that the baby lets go of the placenta, and its maternal attachment, at its own pace – so the cord isn’t cut until it detaches naturally within about a week of the birth. 

Sometimes the placenta is wrapped in a blanket and enveloped with the baby - other times you carry it around in a bowl.  In a water birth, you can float it in the bath in an ice-cream container.  While the organ is drying out, you dress it in salt and lavender oils (and try to keep it away from the cat, according to Lotus Birth forums).  I know a woman who buried hers (placenta, not cat) on her child’s birthday, and opened a bottle of Grange.

A little ‘out there’ as birth choices go?  Perhaps.  But if you’re not the one doing it, why does it matter?

As for me, the first time I went through a VBAC (vaginal birth after caesarean), I wanted to implode and take the entire hospital with me.  The midwives had given me sleeping tablets the night before, so every contraction shattered me from the depths of sleep until I begged for an epidural and proposed to the anaesthetist. 

Next time, I prepared with pre-natal hypnosis and acupuncture.  When the day came, we listened to the CD of hypnotic relaxation music on continuous loop for the first ten hours of an unrelenting medical induction.  It was fantastic pain relief, until the doctor announced that I wasn’t half-way there yet, which is about when I propped myself up on my elbows and started eyeing off the drugs trolley. 

Meanwhile, the woman in the next room gave birth in under an hour to her seventh child - breastfeeding her three-year-old between contractions.

I will never be her, and she will never be me.  So, how about playing nicely, mums?  We all converge on the same finish line – having each run our own race. 

Surely what matters most isn’t how our child arrives, or how this compares with the mum-next-door’s experience, but what we do with our baby when it gets here.

150 comments

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    • C1 says:

      06:28am | 20/01/11

      I am a father of three beautiful healthy, happy, evil, bossy, cheeky, cranky children. As you rightly say later in your article, it is not how the baby was born, so long as everyone is healthy and it is what you do with the child after that that makes the impact.

      As for all the opinions regarding method and the ‘one upmanship’ -we are human we all do it in one way or another. The unfortunate fact is some people feel they have to inflict it on other people.

      The mothers groups often only have one thing in common - the children. Sooner or later you discover who you actually like and would like to develop a relationship with and that is what counts.

    • Parent says:

      02:00pm | 20/01/11

      “As you rightly say later in your article, it is not how the baby was born, so long as everyone is healthy and it is what you do with the child after that that makes the impact.”

      Bingo, bingo, bingo C1.

      As someone who has done the gamut of ‘Natural’ (what a stupid term) births (from your run of the mill no drug hospital birth to the no-medical-help ‘we didn’t make it to the hospital’ birth), I can easily say that the ‘natural’ birth thing is overrated. There are no bloody benefits either way, birth hurts and you’re the only one who will be feeling the pain so just take the damn drugs and tell everyone to sod off with their holier than thou opinions.

      Frankly, it’s none of anyones damn business as to what path you take and the more you get yourself into this vicious circle of one-upping and being apologetic for your decisions, the harder it is to get out.

      Words of wisdom:

      Me (after the last push and child was placed on chest): Oh THANK GOD! THE HARD PART IS OVER!
      Obstetrician: (laughs to himself) It’s not over. That was the easy part.

      He could not be more correct. Forget how they come into the world, all that matters is what you do with them afterwards. And trust me, birth IS the easy part. They should hand out gas for everyday child rearing. smile

    • Katie says:

      03:28pm | 20/01/11

      I could not agree more with both of you. That sounds exactly like what my sister said after being picked on by our cousin for her c-section, which was insisted on by her doctor for health reasons. My sister pointed out that she got pregnant to have a child, not to have a ‘natural birth’. No, the c-section would not have been her preference but in the end all that matters is that she and the baby are healthy.

      In contrast, the cousin was determined to go through an ‘all-natural’ labour with her fourth child, same as with the first three. (According to her, if you don’t it means you don’t love your child.) She went through a 36 hour drug free labour, long after the doctors were telling her to have a c-section (as she was built quite small and the baby was large, and it just wasn’t working). She only gave in when she was told that she was now putting herself and the child in real danger. All she did was unnecessarily stress both of them, as well as her husband who was naturally scared for both of them and begging her to get the c-section.

      Of course you plan the kind of labour that you prefer, but stuff happens and sometimes it can’t go your way. Or maybe you prefer it a certain way and other people don’t agree. But no one should be judged for doing the best thing medically for themselves and their child. And neither should they be judged for whatever they choose, no matter what their reason. Personally I’m a wuss when it comes to pain. I’d want the damn drugs, yesterday!

    • Tilley says:

      09:03am | 21/01/11

      I totally agree. It’s like the points-scoring doesn’t finish about childbirth until the kid is in preschool. The most important thing is having the baby - how you gave birth doesn’t matter.

    • Gladys says:

      06:30am | 20/01/11

      Well said. I had a c-section and didn’t breastfeed. I’m not a mother at all. Just a woman who hangs out with a small child.

    • Macca says:

      07:44am | 20/01/11

      @Gladys, that actually sounds like more fun…

    • Stephy says:

      01:30pm | 20/01/11

      I don’t think a mother actually feels like a mother. My boy is 13 months old and I’m still waiting to feel like a mother. Feels more like carer. Or slave. Possibly both.

    • Zoe says:

      04:41pm | 20/01/11

      Gladys you just cracked me up!! I didnt have the C-section, but I asked (ok demanded) drugs. Excuse me for not being built like a bucket. It really really hurt! I also chose (yes, I just admitted it) to bottle feed. I’m still waiting for my kids to turn into axe murdering serial killers, but so far, touch wood, they seem relatively normal - no obesity, good at sport, plenty of friends, happy, healthy, smart. ...but wait till those drugs from birth kick in!!!

    • Lisa H. says:

      05:23pm | 20/01/11

      Steph, mothering kicks in real gradual… I’m a mother of three, my oldest is 6.5 and I’m finally ‘getting it’. For years, it felt like I’d been marooned on a suburban desert island with a couple of (admittedly pretty cute) pets to take care of. 
      As for labour, as a group we take it for granted, because ‘everybody does it’.
      But, (as with male experiences of war?)  the pain is at once universal, and intensely personal.
      Researchers are saying a lot of post natally depressed women may actually be suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder.
      It took many months for me to ‘forget’ the pain and fear, after each of my drug free births.
      Assistance and pain relief in birth has to be up there as a human right!

    • Cloud Strife says:

      08:53am | 21/01/11

      I don’t the mothers who judge people for using formula. I shunned the breast from day 1, and only wanted the formula.

    • Jade says:

      06:49am | 20/01/11

      People need to spend less time worrying about what other people think about them or their choices and just live their life how they want. You will never impress or keep everyone happy ever. Why waste your life trying.

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:01am | 20/01/11

      Here’s a thought for all you victims of human nature - people can’t criticise your choice if they don’t know what it was.

      Stop giving in to the desire to tell everyone about yourself, and you’ll find that people won’t have an opportunity to give in to the desire to judge you on it.

    • Lee says:

      01:23pm | 20/01/11

      Kinda hard to keep stuff from family though…....

    • Soul Pleasures says:

      04:43pm | 20/01/11

      I had just made that very decision. I have enough trouble being civil with the masses without adding this to it.

    • Bilby says:

      07:07am | 20/01/11

      For our first kid I didn’t have any drugs at all, but for the second I was much more relaxed and the nitrous is there to share wink

    • Macca says:

      07:17am | 20/01/11

      Each to their own, if your child is healthy, who gives a damn.

      If the child is unfortunately not healthy, there was no way of knowing that your choice was or was not responsible for this, nor would you have had any foresight to predict the outcome of that decision.

      There are some things where competition just doesn’t seem neccesary, and raising your child is probably the best example of this, definitely more so than who has the prettiest dress (I’ll give you a hint ladies, it’s the one with the largest cans).

      Regardless, best to stick with Baz Luhrmann on this one; “Don’t waste your time on jealousy; sometimes you’re ahead, sometimes you’re behind…the race is long, and in the end, it’s only with yourself…what ever you do, don’t congratulate yourself too much or berate yourself either – your choices are half chance, so are everybody else’s.”

    • Audrey says:

      07:38am | 20/01/11

      Thanks Emma. Great article. I’m proud to be the un-‘real’ mum of 2 c-section boys!

    • Elphaba says:

      08:02am | 20/01/11

      I wouldn’t let what other women did make me feel inadequate. And people wonder why the sisterhood is dead (did it even exist?), with these bitches trying to tell other mothers-to-be what to do and not what to do.

      I thought every birth was different.

      If I have kids, I’m having the drugs.  Sweet, sweet drugs.

    • fairsfair says:

      09:49am | 20/01/11

      I am with you Elphaba. We are both childless, single and of age (complete failures, but that is a whole different article) and I look around at all my friends having kids and I feel sorry for them. Not because of the fact that they have had a baby (hey I like kids), but for what they think they need to be an have. Like a Prado and only a daughter. It is quite sad.

      My best friend is the polar opposite (she simply does not give a crap what people think of her and how she raises the happiest little boy I have ever met) and is actually waiting for baby number 2 any day now. She has gestational diabetes, is 39 weeks, but her baby’s head won’t engage. She has also been told that it is likely to be bigger than her first (9lb8oz).  She doesn’t want a cesarian because she doesn’t want to have to try and look after a 1 year old and a newborn with a sore belly. “Just get it cut out” everyone keeps barking at her. Clearly she will have one if she needs to - but like the article says - why be judged for listening to your doctor’s advice? Clearly Prado fleeted mothers group knows best…

      I am totally with you. Do what you gotta do to get the job done and if the drugs don’t hurt your baby (hello gas, pethadine) - well, you should not be judged for using them. I am a bit wary of epidurals though (the whole needle in the back thing weirds me out), but ask me again when my uteris decides to contort…

      Meanwhile.. I think most of the dads have a crack at that gas anyway.

    • K says:

      09:57am | 20/01/11

      I’m there with ya Elphaba, haven’t had kids yet, but when I do I’ll be calling the hospital to get the epi ready before I even arrive! Why put up with the pain if you don’t have to?

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      10:17am | 20/01/11

      @Elphaba

      Just don’t go round telling men how horrible it is to give birth when you’re going to be as spacey as Ziggy Stardust on the planet of the apes. Can’t have it both ways. Oh wait. Yeah you can. Go feminism.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:19am | 20/01/11

      @K and fairsfair, I think if people want to have drug-free births and burn incense and chant, that’s fine, and good luck to them.  It’s the frowning and competitiveness that I don’t understand.  I admire women who do it drug-free, but I’m not going to compare myself to them.  I pulled a muscle in my back the other day, and it was so damn painful after a few hours that I was physically sick.

      Yeah.  Childbirth’s gonna be awesome.

      So long as women either do it in a hospital or do it in a birthing centre attached to a hospital in case something goes wrong with the birth (because that’s what smart women who don’t want to endanger their life or their baby’s life do!), then they can do what they like.  But it seems to me that if medical advances have been made, why not use them?

      Last time I checked, the empirical test for “Who’s a good mother?” was not whether you were a master of pain.  No thanks.

      My mum was all set to go pain free (she’s such a hippie, lol), and then begged for the epidural.  The people I’ve spoken to who have had one have had no problems.  I know a guy who had knee surgery with only an epidural, because he had a fear of the general anaesthetic and that he wouldn’t wake up.  I think they’re pretty safe.  Much safer than having a baby in the bush somewhere, miles from hospital.

      And if we’re failures, big whoop.  No one expects anything from a failure, which means everyone is perpetually surprised. wink

    • Elphaba says:

      10:33am | 20/01/11

      @Sad Sad Reality, bitchy much?

      Who said I would do that?  Oh that’s right.  Women have scorned you so now we’re all in the same basket, even if we were too young for the feminist movement.

      Grow up.

    • Bilby says:

      10:44am | 20/01/11

      SSR - That was just dopey. The pain of childbirth, from my experience, easily cuts through the fog of pain relief. Try listening to the woman you love cry out in pain and then tell me they’ve got it both ways.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      01:39pm | 20/01/11

      @Elphaba

      The amount of times I’ve heard women use the argument of childbirth as a conversation killer on who has it worse in the battle of the sexes is around a billion.

      Two young for feminism? Try looking around a bit, the beast is still alive.

      @Bliby

      It’s one day of pain for a woman, and a lifetime of having to hear about it for me.

    • Elphaba says:

      02:17pm | 20/01/11

      @SSR, you’re hanging around the wrong people.  Suffering is an individual thing, regardless of gender.  Maybe they’re killing the conversation killer because you’re incredibly boring to talk to?

      I only make a glib generalisation because you saw fit to fire on me first, about my GENDER, becaue you know nothing else about me and feel that it’s appropriate to insult me because of it.

      Like I said, grow up.

      If you’ve witnessed women using this as a conversation killer, have you ever thought about getting off your high horse and not having the debate at all?  There is such thing as being the bigger person.  If some cow is ranting about how hard being a woman is, walk away.  It’s like religion - it’ll go around and around in a circle with no end in sight..

      I don’t call myself a feminist.  I’m not even sure what that is anymore.  It’s certainly not about equalisation of the sexes.  I call myself a woman, and I’m proud to.

      Now, if you’ve got something to say about the content of my posts, fine.  But if you’re lobbing shots at me because you think all women are poison - run along, little boy.  No time for you.

    • Bilby says:

      02:37pm | 20/01/11

      SSR - The way I see it, I’ve never been through pain like that so if a woman wants to take the “women are tougher than men because they give birth” line, I’m not going to argue. I sure as hell don’t want to go through that thanks. With the first kid I found it traumatic enough just being there! Call me what you will tongue laugh

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      03:40pm | 20/01/11

      @Elphaba

      “If you’ve witnessed women using this as a conversation killer, have you ever thought about getting off your high horse and not having the debate at all?  There is such thing as being the bigger person.  If some cow is ranting about how hard being a woman is, walk away.  It’s like religion - it’ll go around and around in a circle with no end in sight.”

      Men always have to be the bigger person. Women call this equality.

      “I don’t call myself a feminist.

      No woman ever does. How do you feel about affirmative action?

      @Bliby

      Call em how you see em.

    • Elphaba says:

      03:49pm | 20/01/11

      @Sad Sad Reality, you’re a real bitter person.  I feel sorry for you.

      Get some help.

    • Sam says:

      07:45pm | 20/01/11

      Elphaba, SSR is a troll.  I’ve seen his comments on other blogs and it’s all done to wind people up.

      The sad sad reality for him is that he’s got nothing more going on in his life than to annoy others.

    • Stephy says:

      07:15am | 21/01/11

      Take the drugs. They’re your friend. Skip the nitrous - it only makes you lightheaded. Go for the heavy stuff.

      fairsfair, your friends baby probably won’t drop until she goes into labour. Apparently the first one drops 2-4 weeks before the birth, and the second usually doesn’t drop until the last minute. This is according to the midwife I’m dealing with (having 4 weeks to go till my due date). I’m going to have my second and to be honest, I’m just glad she’s moved out of Transverse position (sideways). And I completely understand her not wanting to deal with a C-section, 1yr old and newborn. I hope she doesn’t have to have one :(

      SSR, I lasted 5 hours with full strength induction before I called for the epidural. I did have both. Birth is painful. Fact. Having the epidural while going through full strength contractions makes one realise how wonderful epidurals are! (also, the hospital generally like you to stay at home as long as possible - till you’re full strength into your contractions - before they admit you in. No one gets an epidural on the first contraction.)

    • Consider all things says:

      08:37am | 21/01/11

      I’d say know your body first before you decide on drugs.  I had 2 births; one with epidural and one without ( and must say not by choice!).  After the first birth with epidural, I was groggy, really out of it.  I realised later that I am one of those people who are extra sensitive to these drugs and I believe it could have affected initial breastfeeding with my oldest. I take a child’s dose of Benadryl as I am a zombie the next day with an adult’s dose.  The second one I had energy in abundance, alert and happy. I don’t regret chosing to have an epidermal the first time as it helped me feel more in control. If I had to do it all again, I would certainly pause first instead of what I did which was ” I want an epidural before the anaesthetist leaves!!”  With the second birth, I’m not sure what I’d do if I had the choice… nitrous oxide didn’t do a thing!  All I am saying is know how your body reacts to medication and weigh up all the factors before deciding.

    • DanieL says:

      08:09am | 20/01/11

      The best kind of trolling online is making judgements about other peoples choices regarding children. How they conceive, give birth, how many, is not having children selfish?, is having children primarily a selfish decision? Then you have parenting styles, junk food and spanking toddlers.

      I’m just glad I am not a breeder

    • Sue says:

      05:19pm | 20/01/11

      And by using the term ‘breeder’ you are indeed being derogatory…

    • Arnold Layne says:

      08:24am | 20/01/11

      It’s only a competition if you let it become one.

    • Bitten says:

      08:43am | 20/01/11

      Zigackly! It is the sport of the rampantly insecure to constantly eye off everyone else’s achievements/life choices/whatever and try to turn it into a competition. They try to make it about you when it is plain to everyone except the insecure, that it is always solely about THEM. Don’t let any of that negative nay-sayer crap under your skin! Or, if you’re feeling kind, tell them “I wish I could be like you and make the choices you’ve made, but I’m simply not as capable and brilliant as you.” Make an insecure douchebag happy for a day!

    • shelagh says:

      08:26am | 20/01/11

      I was 20 when i had my first child. I went to one of those classes at the hospital and watched a birth video. When the nurse asked what we thought, I said it was the most disgusting thing I’d ever seen in my life! They weren’t impressed nor was I, so that was the end of that.
      I did the vaginal delivery with an epidural, and it still bloody hurt!
      A couple of years later I had another child but from wo to go with the labour it was only a couple of hours, no time for epidurals just pethidine that made me vomit! That was fun!
      ELEVEN years later I was back there again and was under the impression that if I made it through the last time with nothing I’d be right this time- pfft!! well that was one of THE stupidest things I’d ever said! And I say alot of stupid stuff!
      Nearly there…THEN a couple of years later after deciding to have one more I ended up pregnant with twins!! All I could think of was “oh my god! I’m going to have to do it twice!” But then thought “At least they’ll be small.” Yeah right! 3.5 kg and 3 kg at 38 weeks , bottom one breach blocking the exit so I had a caeser. Apart from all of that I’ve repressed the birth stories.
      After 20 years my attitude towards childbirth hasn’t changed at all from my initial thought of “I don’t care how you do it, just get the bloody thing out!!” Don’t get me started on when they told me they wanted to put the twin extraction off for a few days…
      Anyway, childbirth’s nothing compared to teenagers!!

    • Matthew says:

      01:58pm | 20/01/11

      Don’t you have anything positive to say about your children?  No, just “I hated their births and now I hate them as they’ve grown up”.  Poor kids.

      Why do I suspect that you haven’t really repressed the birth stories at all?

    • shelagh says:

      02:56pm | 20/01/11

      it’s ok matthew i don’t hate my children. i’m just saying that i just don’t see the beautiful side of getting them out.  they’re fine- we laugh, we play together and i cuddle them. even the teenagers:)

    • Rebecca says:

      08:41am | 20/01/11

      well said Emma - who care’s how the kid arrives as long as he/she’s healthy??? mind you the biggest regret I have after the birth of my daughter was that she came out so bloody fast I didn’t get ANY drugs - and that was the only bloody reason I was doing a “natural” birth!!
      I do have to comment though on Nicole Kidman’s new baby - she can obviously carry a baby (Sunday Roast is proof of that) so don’t you think it’s rediculous that she had to “USE” a “gestational carrier” (ie surrogate) to have a second one?? Vanity has just risen to a new level…

    • SomeGuy says:

      09:01am | 20/01/11

      I may be speaking out of school, but there was a certain amount of suspicion in women’s health circles that the first one was a surrogate too.

    • megan says:

      09:15am | 20/01/11

      “who care’s how the kid arrives as long as he/she’s healthy”...but you reserve the right to judge nicole kidmans choices without having any facts as to why she chose that road. nice.

    • PB says:

      09:42am | 20/01/11

      Re Nicole Kidman, apparently they tried for a second right after Sunday was born and tried IVF but were advised by their doctor that surrogacy was their only option for another biological child.  Just because you carry a child once naturally is no guarantee that you can do it again…its called secondary infertility and it happens to a lot of people.  How about you put into practice the ‘who care’s how the kid arrives as long as its healthy’ bit!!!

    • Catching up says:

      09:51am | 20/01/11

      Maybe she was lucky to have Sunday naturally.  Do not forget she was in her 40’s when she had Sunday. It is an extreme way to have a baby if other options are avail-able.  We should not make value judgements unless we know all the facts.  In this case we do not.  People still have some rights to privacy.

    • Fiona says:

      05:26pm | 20/01/11

      Wow Rebecca, were you in the room with Nic and Keith when they made the decision to have another child?
      No, didn’t think so. Perhaps you should just keep your judgement to yourself.
      Here we have a story about NOT passing judgement on other mothers, and what do we have but some idiot obviously suffering from vertigo as they sit on their high moral horse!
      Whether they used a surrogate or a bloody breeding pig for the birth is none of anyone else’s business.
      It’s a shame I don’t have their phone number or email address to pass onto you so you can let them know your opinion yourself ....

    • sara says:

      06:18pm | 20/01/11

      Totally agree with you Rebecca.  Having a baby is one of the last truly human things we have left and it upsets me that people are messing around with the process.  I’m so sick of ‘science’ taking over everything. From all the chemicals in our food, water, shampoo etc.  Even the food grown in the ground has chemical stuff all added to it. Why do people have to make babies using science? It shoudn’t be allowed. I feel sorry for future generations. Everything will be made in test tubes and scientific labs. Babies are meant to be conceived when a couple make love, in a loving environment, not in a cold and sterile laboratory.  It’s just gross and UNNATURAL.

    • Bec says:

      08:42am | 20/01/11

      I must admit that I did clamp my legs closed in horror when I saw how big Miranda Kerr’s baby was. Owwwww…

    • Katie says:

      03:54pm | 20/01/11

      Glad it wasn’t just me then! If that’s what she wanted, good on her. But man, that child was not small. Not that I think a small one would be a walk in the park, but… jeepers!

      At least she had Orlando’s pretty, pretty face to concentrate on (and scream, ‘You did this to me! You bastard!’) :-D

    • PB says:

      08:46am | 20/01/11

      3 boys - 1 12 hour labour ending in epidural for high blood pressure, 1 super-fast gas-only, hour long from go to whoa, and one emergency c-section at 36 weeks due to pre-eclampsia.  All my boys are happy, healthy, mostly non-evil, smart funny kids. 

      Was any of these methods ‘wrong’?  For those 3 situations at those particular times, no, they were absolutely the right decisions to bring a healthy baby into the world. 

      Lighten up ladies, who cares how your kids come into the world, its what you do afterwards that really matters.  As long as you bring them up to be thoughtful, considerate, productive people who contribute positively to society who the hell cares how they got here?

    • Jade says:

      11:55am | 20/01/11

      Haha I like the mostly non-evil line.. funny! :D

    • Tracey says:

      08:55am | 20/01/11

      Thank you for a great article. I am currently pregnant with my second child and am going into labour with the same attitude as the first time - it’s all about getting a healthy baby; whatever it takes - drugs/no drugs, C-section/vaginal delivery, 1 hour/50 hours. I’m open to all options and for those women that choose or have to have things different to me - good luck; I genuinely wish you all the best. It’s not a competition and congratulations and well done to all mums, regardless of how you get there. One thing that I believe is the same about all births/labours/pregnancies is that they are all remarkable achievements and there’s no such thing as a super mum or a best delivery.
      Oh and congrats to all the dads too. Sometimes your role is not recognised enough. But that’s another Punch story in the making…...

    • Bilby says:

      09:04am | 20/01/11

      So long as you’re aware that the decision to labour for days could well result in you being incontinent. There are ramifications for every decision.

    • Tracey says:

      10:42am | 20/01/11

      Bilby, I am not deciding to be in labour for days (it certainly is NOT my preferred option) but it may be out of my hands. I trust the medical professionals and the advice they will give me at the time for what is best for me and my baby.
      And it’s not only long labours that result in incontinence by the way! Or labour at all for that matter. But thanks for the caring comment.

    • Bilby says:

      11:03am | 20/01/11

      Tracey - Oh I know that incontinence can happen in all sorts of ways. The reason I commented was that after having kids, I was so aware of how profoundly ignorant I was before. I think a lot of people are in the same boat, but don’t know it. That’s not an insult, more a statement of fact.

    • Ryan says:

      09:07am | 20/01/11

      Who cares, no matter how you do it, billions of women have done it before you and billions will do it after!

    • Huey says:

      09:22am | 20/01/11

      I’ve had five kids and never felt a moments pain…without any drugs at all.
      Can’t say the same for my wife though! (but if it hurt why did she keep doing it?)

    • shelagh says:

      09:52am | 20/01/11

      ah huey, so many responses so little time:)

    • Kika says:

      10:10am | 20/01/11

      Maybe you should ask yourself that question! You may have had something to do with it too.

    • jag33 says:

      01:58pm | 20/01/11

      lol thats funny… I am about to have my 5th child, all so far normal vaginal deliveries only the first labor drugs were used, and it became apparent that no pain was lessened it just assisted in the relax in between and made time warp, drugs or no drugs, we all just want to get it over with, and meet that wonderful bundle of joy.
      I have managed to pph (hemorage) after 2 births, retain conceptional goods and placenta after all but 1 birth so far.. active third stage management is one of the scariest birth plans I have ever heard of and of course had to experience, and yet I am doing it again….
      I will personally scout hospitals in search of an alternative to that active third stage management this time. And I am well aware that again this could kill me and have no reservations what so ever about tying my tubes after this one, when I survive the whole ordeal.
      It is crazy what some women go through, I have heard way worse stories than my own experiences, and have heard of much easier less complicated births. I have a close friend who experienced one of the most traggic births I have heard of to date.
      60 yrs ago I would have died giving birth to my 1st child, I am glad I live and birthed in todays times, I have a blessed amazing family grin
      each unto their own, every body is different, every labor is different, often every afterbirth is different, we do what is needed at the time, to protect our child and ourselves.

    • rm says:

      09:23am | 20/01/11

      Finally a woman who tells it like it is!
      I am a male GP and for years I have tried to educate women to take each labour/delivery/child as it comes and look at the finished product.  Unfortunately I seem to always receive the ” look “.  You are a male, what would you know!  But that is another article for another time and I look forward to reading it when it comes.

    • Markus says:

      10:46am | 20/01/11

      You need to wear a white coat and stethoscope at all times to remind people, even the ones currently in an appointment with you, that you are a doctor.
      A little inconvenient, but it does have the added bonus of being able to give advice on any topic at any time, ending it with “I’m a Doctor”. The more unrelated to medicine the topic the better.

    • Kika says:

      10:15am | 20/01/11

      Hey it doesn’t just stop there. What about the competitiveness that starts AS SOON as you get married?? I have been married for 2 years and as soon as I got married one of my former friends tried to make another former friend and I go head to head to compete with each other to pop out a child first. I told them in no uncertain terms that I wasn’t planning for one yet, but they didn’t seem to understand. They seemed to think it was a race. Because to a lot of people, you’re not a proper woman unless you’re a mother.

      Hey, it’s not just up to me when I become a mother. I have to wait until my husbands ready. Since when did babies come around without a man’s input? Literally.

      If someone knows, please tell me. But I don’t feel the urge to sperm raid from my husband.

    • Happy says:

      12:13pm | 20/01/11

      Nicely said. And I feel for you. Unfortunately some people can’t stop themselves. Once you have a baby they ask ‘when’s the next one coming’ or ‘how many are you going to have’, etc.
      Enjoy married life with just the two of you as long as you want - just because other people have kids straight away doesn’t mean we all have to.
      Whatever floats your boat, I say.

    • Zoe says:

      05:08pm | 20/01/11

      And as soon as the first is born you’re expected to have another within 2 years AND if the second is the same sex as the first you’d better get cracking on the third. I just really enjoyed my first child and had no plans whatsoever. I pretty much coast through life which has worked fine so far. 9 years later second baby came along. Now everyone presumes they have different fathers!! I must have done it wrong. Oh well.

    • Uncle Fester says:

      05:30pm | 20/01/11

      I’ve seen your comments quite a bit online Kika.

      All I can say is I can’t believe someone actually MARRIED you!

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      08:41pm | 20/01/11

      Reality is that not all women should be mothers, after watching them at the school gate openly abusing their kids, both physically & verbally you wonder why they ever bothered. So in the future you decide not to be a parent, good on you.

    • Anthony says:

      10:19am | 20/01/11

      My wife did not have drugs and when she asked for them her labour had advanced too far. Me being a doctor I was supposed to have figured out when she should have had pethedine or an epidural. In our household my daughters drug free delivery is still a saw point and somthing we do not talk about as the anger is still in my wifes eye.

    • Soul Pleasures says:

      04:58pm | 20/01/11

      A doctor who cannot spell ‘sore’ is not that man I want arranging the details of my labour. Just saying…..

    • Cate P says:

      11:34pm | 20/01/11

      Soul Pleasures, maybe Anthony is an orthopod ...

    • NSW says:

      10:21am | 20/01/11

      Has anyone heard of overpopulation? We dont need anymore mouths to feed on this planet. Keep your legs shut for the sake of the world.

    • Bilby says:

      11:08am | 20/01/11

      I agree. We should leave the breeding to the uneducated morons in third world countries. That sounds like an excellent plan for the future. We can then import all of those kids as they will have an excellent education and be fully productive members of society.

    • Ben C says:

      11:14am | 20/01/11

      Let’s just hope there are no more future generations of you then, shall we?

    • NSW says:

      01:10pm | 20/01/11

      Bilby - “uneducated morons” - I’m sure they deliberately avoid the wealth of education available to them. You are the moron. Apart from overpopulation, people like you are another reason not to breed.

    • Bilby says:

      04:17pm | 20/01/11

      NSW - Why does it make any difference *why* they are uneducated? The fact is that the birth rates have an inverse correlation to education. If you can’t see the problem with your plan, I suggest you don’t breed.

      Well what do you know. It appears we are in agreeance after all.

    • Nat Kringoudis says:

      10:25am | 20/01/11

      As a practitioner who sees hundreds of pre-labour patients, I have seen every situation under the sun.

      I agree - every birth is different, every situation is different.  Bottom line is, it’s the individuals choice and they own every right to that.  Nobody should be frowned upon - they are making the best decision for themselves in very that moment - childbirth.  Someday all women might get that - I hope.

      What I want to say is this; birth is an extremely draining event (obvious I know - maybe I should add a few !!!).  Physically, mentally, emotionally and some.  It’s true - what matters most is what you do once the child is here however the reality is that until a woman is comfortable with her choices, she will be hung up on it forevermore.  Until she accepts that, whatever the outcome, guilt, regret and sadness will hover in the corner of her mind.  A woman needs to arrive at the knowledge that she did the best job possible and is happy with the choices made to get there.  Then - it doesn’t matter what anybody else says because that’s what being a parent is all about - being your best - chuck out the rest.

    • jag33 says:

      05:52pm | 20/01/11

      If this was on face book I would *like* the statement above grin

    • sophiecg says:

      10:28am | 20/01/11

      While I can’t stand the sort of competitiveness you talk about in this great article, more annoying to me is the egocentricity of those new mums with their $1000 prams who walk up and down my shopping strip with a look on their faces like they’ve achieved something miraculous. I’m nearly 43 and both my kids are at school - they’re 9 and nearly 13. So I don’t walk up and down my strip during the day with a pram and if I did I wouldn’t be a. looking at other women without a pram as though they have no idea how fantastic I am because I’ve had a baby and b. I would move my 4-wheel drive of a pram out of the way for other people, rather than expect people to move out of my way because I have a baby and I am fantastic. This kind of indulgence and self-centredness seems to imply that the thing that women do, day in day out all over the world - have a baby and look after it - is such a major achievement that everyone without baby in tow should move out of the way for you. Get a grip new mums. Having the baby and pushing the $1000 pram is the easy bit. Bringing up a healthy, happy, practical and compassionate child to adulthood is much more difficult ...

    • bella starkey says:

      11:03am | 20/01/11

      Oh i hate it when they ram the back of you ankles with thier giant prams. Old people do it with trolleys too. Apparently you are not allowed to punch old people though.

    • Elphaba says:

      11:30am | 20/01/11

      Ooh!  The celebrity poster child of the over-indulged?  Suri Cruise.  She is going to make a podiatrist very, very happy one day, given that she’s tottering around in heels before the age of 5…

    • KH says:

      11:51am | 20/01/11

      Elphaba - you missed a few letters - its spelled ‘psychiatrist’.............hehehe

    • Elphaba says:

      12:36pm | 20/01/11

      @KH, lol, you’re a funny one! :-D

    • shelagh says:

      07:17pm | 20/01/11

      actually, as the parent of a 20 and 17 year old, as well as 6 and 2 (twins), that’s something that i’ve really noticed lately. when my first 2 were small, parents were obviously proud of their child/ren but they didn’t expect others to bow to them as well. the way some people carry on these days you’d think no one had ever had a baby before.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      08:44pm | 20/01/11

      Bella Starkey, I find a good hip & shoulder works just fine

    • Alex says:

      10:30am | 20/01/11

      There is another form of ‘mum-upmanship’ that you didn’t touch on.
      Mum’s who boast about how humble they are.

    • mum of one says:

      10:30am | 20/01/11

      When i arrived at the hospital in labour with my daugter the midwife asked if I had a birth plan?  My response was simple “I plan to give birth however I need to get this child out of me safely”, she just smiled and walked away.  even my husband was proud that his gerally control freak of a wife realised there was little i could control in this situation.
      As it turned out my daughter and I were back on back throughout the entire labour and she refused to turn, I had piggy back contractrions for the last 7 hours.  I has the gas, two shots of pethadine and a shot of adrenanlin when my heat rate dropped to dangerous levels just as she was born.
      Is my birth any better or worse then anyone elses, not at all.  Did the mothers at mothers group tell me I should have tried harder to work through the pain, yep they sure did.  Hence why I never went back stupid cows!  Funny thing was I did stick to my birth plan lol

    • Preggers again says:

      12:05pm | 20/01/11

      Congratulations on having such an awesome attitude - not just to the birth, but to the mother’s group too! If I ever encounter similar people I hope I can put them in their place! Politely, of course.

    • Zoe says:

      05:16pm | 20/01/11

      I had no idea so many women even had drug free births. Times have changed. We all used to compare which drugs were the best! Those who missed out on drugs were not happy. I must hang around the wrong crowd.

    • Joy Johnston says:

      10:38am | 20/01/11

      Thanks for this article Emma. 
      While I have no reason to be critical of the choice any woman makes in her childbearing, I want to applaud women whose birthing plans are simply to do it themselves (Plan A) unless they have a good reason to accept intervention (Plan B).
      I have an interest in such matters, as I am a midwife attending women who want to stick with ‘Plan A’ when possible.  According to the international definition of the midwife, a midwife has a duty to “promote normal birth” - ‘Plan A’.

      So, why does our society love to grovel in ‘mum-upmanship’?
      If a person has trouble with breathing, are they criticised for taking drugs and using the machines or other medical interventions that keep them well oxygenated?
      If a woman has trouble conceiving a baby by the usual means, is she criticised for taking the drugs and undergoing surgical processes with the goal of becoming pregnant?
      But, why would anyone intentionally take the medicalised route, when such a free and functional, even pleasurable, route is the physiological norm? 

      Birth is not an illness.  There is no safer way for either mother or baby for proceeding through pregnancy, birth, and nurture of the infant, than in harmony with normal physiological processes.
      Birth is about two people, mother and baby.  One of the most compelling reasons that some well informed women attempt to avoid drugs and surgery, even when it means labour is long and physically challenging, is because they do not want to expose their child to potentially dangerous substances such as narcotics and anaesthetics. 
      ‘Plan A’ is theoretically a possiblity for most women to consider, most of the time.  A good question to put to the primary carer (midwife or doctor) is “are you willing and able to promote and protect normal birth, and to only seek to interrupt/interfere/intervene if you have a valid reason?”  If there is a valid reason to move to ‘Plan B’, and the mother agrees, then ‘Plan B’ is the best way.

    • Alex says:

      11:09am | 20/01/11

      Are you seriously asking that question? You really don’t know why a mother would choose drugs? Silly woman. Ovulation is a natural part of growing up, I don’t see why anyone would use ‘feminine hygeine’ products and pain relievers to minimise the discomfort that comes with such a beautiful experience.

      To some people, birth is a natural, wonderful, spiritual and almost mystical experience. To others, it is not. Who are you to judge? Just shut up and give me the drugs.

      Fact: The average midwife has a more inflated ego than any other professional. True story.

    • notSue says:

      12:11pm | 20/01/11

      Your argument is very well put however, I think although most women would prefer Plan A for the well-being of their child, it’s only in theory. I wonder if you have experienced childbirth yourself,  because believe me, the reality can never be properly prepared for, no matter how well- informed we are beforehand. Once we are in the moment, we cope as best we can, even if that means yelling “Where’s the bloody pethidine?”  !!!!

    • Joy Johnston says:

      12:20pm | 20/01/11

      Alex I don’t know where you get your facts and true stories from.  Perhaps you have had a bad experience with a midwife, or perhaps you have seriously investigated the egos of many midwives.  I know lots of midwives and I couldn’t make a generalisation about their egos or anything else.
      And yes I did seriously ask all those questions.

    • sophiecg says:

      03:08pm | 20/01/11

      @ Alex - a bit harsh but on a personal level, being told by a midwife while in tears and desperately trying to get my six-week premmie son to breastfeed when all the signs (including his weight loss) were indicating I should give up and put him on the bottle that ‘breastfed babies were healthily fat and bottle fed babies unhealthily so’ - this from a young woman who had no children btw and had therefore never been in my position - well, I’m just glad I no longer have to deal with such ignorance and insensitivity.

    • Elsa says:

      05:40pm | 20/01/11

      Alex, my greatest joy was having my uterus removed, thus ending all the misery, not joy of my womanhood. I saw no beauty in the clotted mess I was subjected to for 3/4 of my monthly cycle! I sometimes thought I was going to bleed to death!
      I’m also hoping that by ‘feminine hygiene’ products you surely didn’t mean pads and tampons? Not use them? Sounds like you’ve been sniffing too much incense!

    • Alex says:

      06:43pm | 20/01/11

      Else, it’s called sarcasm

    • Elsa says:

      08:04pm | 20/01/11

      Well then Alex stick to your day job, coz you suck at witty sarcasm ..

    • Nicola says:

      11:09am | 20/01/11

      Women without the range of options we have in the west still die of childbirth in droves and so do the babes. Shouldn’t we simply be grateful for having options at all? Otherwise the birth conversations would be along the lines of I survived my birth, but my sister didn’t or my best friend.

    • Anna says:

      07:42am | 21/01/11

      Women and babies still die even with all these options, especially the babies. The stillbirth rate is unbelievably high even in the western world. My close friend lost a baby to stillbirth, as did my cousin’s friends and another friend’s sister in law. And that’s just to mention a few. Not to scare, just to let you know that our options are not foolproof unfortunately.

    • Pixel says:

      11:22am | 20/01/11

      Georgous photo,good luck to them

    • Mother of One says:

      11:23am | 20/01/11

      Great article! -
      All I want to know is why we must know these “celebrities” most intimate activities. I really don’t care how they “get back in shape” after childbirth,
      but sadly some poor women do and try to do the same as the famous do with multiple adoptions, an army of nannies, plastic surgeons etc. Having a litter instead of a normal number of children (2 at most 3) is fashionable these days and financially beneficial!
      So, young mothers - instead of watching each other and sharing your silly ideas with us teach your children to behave! - because these screeching, undisciplined hordes of yours driving the rest of us mad!

    • BT says:

      05:37pm | 20/01/11

      I wasn’t aware that having large families was abnormal? Apparently I am some kind of freak for wanting a large family! It’s good to know that in order to be “normal” I must limit the ammount of children I choose to have….

    • Mayday says:

      11:30am | 20/01/11

      My niece gave birth last week and told me at 5cm she knew she had reached her pain threshold and called for an epidural, good on you was my response and I am so very proud of her and her husband I could burst.

      Love your articles Emma and thank you for another good one!

    • Mal says:

      12:52am | 21/01/11

      If you are proud of that then you are an idiot.  This is the stupidest, most pointless article and bunch of comments ever.

    • RK says:

      07:53am | 21/01/11

      Mal - I’d like to suggest you write a better article yourself.  As you can’t construct a proper sentence, I won’t.

    • KH says:

      11:54am | 20/01/11

      When I was a lad, we had to walk 5 miles to school and back, in the snow, with no shoes on…......isn’t this a monty python sketch of some kind?  Something about 3 Yorkshiremen?!!!!! 
      Men drive around in their sports cars (or the latest thing, ridiculously annoying and loud motorcycles), women push overpriced prams…......and???????

    • Stella says:

      12:13pm | 20/01/11

      God bless you Emma for writing this and God bless The Punch for publishing…I lost the plot at stupid Miranda Kerr yesterday while everyone was busy fawning over her exposed boob.
      I gave birth to two beautiful kids and in both cases I was epiduraled up to my eyeballs… so sue me…

    • HB says:

      12:33pm | 20/01/11

      This is a mothers version of what men and women do as far as career, sport, money, weight loss etc.  It’s a part of this society we live in where our identity is caught up in what we have not who we are.

    • Rebecca says:

      12:39pm | 20/01/11

      Why not just say “well done”... if she is happy with her achievement then I am happy for her. Her sons birth doesn’t add or take anything away from my own experience of giving birth.
      So much resentment on just this one page LOL!!!

    • Bon says:

      12:43pm | 20/01/11

      I look at that pic of Miranda Kerr and think, good on her.  It’s a lovely photo, and she is obviously very proud of her new role as a mum. You know what? I really don’t think this mum- upmanship exists to nearly the extent you say it does. Its out there, sure. But most of the time when mums I speak to talk of birth, they do so because they are proud of themselves - and why wouldn’t you be? When I gave birth to my second and third babies without drugs, I wanted to shout it from the rooftops! It worked! My body pushed out a 9lb baby and didn’t fall apart! For a few days afterwards I felt like superwoman. I don’t feel bad about that and I won’t apologize for it. Do I think I’m better than other mums? Of course not. All I know is I am damn proud of all four of my births, some with drugs and some without, some induced and some not. I am about to start studying to be a midwife also.

    • Naomi says:

      02:15pm | 20/01/11

      Well said Bon, I was so immensely proud of myself when my first was born I just thought it was amazing what my body could do, it did not mean that I thought others were bad or that I condemned their choices at all.  I’m just glad that for me I was in a situation that everything went well.  My second was not without issues but I was still proud regardless.  And my third well that was a 10 pounder and he was the easiest of the three go figurel.

    • BT says:

      05:46pm | 20/01/11

      Really well put! smile

    • Martha says:

      12:47pm | 20/01/11

      Thanks for the good article Emma.
      I’m a mum and think I did a good job having my baby. I’m not going to tell/bore you with the details of how/how long/drugs or not, etc. because:
      1) I’m sure you don’t really care
      2) I don’t care whether you care or approve or not, but most of all because:
      3) The best reward I get (and the only one I want) is every time I get a kiss and cuddle off my child.
      Good luck to all those with labour ahead of them and well done to all those who have been through labour. At the end of the day we all get the same thing - a baby! And hopefully lots of cuddles and kisses.
      Reading some of these comments, it sounds like women in labour aren’t the only ones who could choose to take a chill pill!

    • Anna C says:

      12:51pm | 20/01/11

      Newsflash people, most of us especially the childless ones could not give a toss about whether it was a natural birth, c-section, with drugs, witthout drugs etc. Please stop boring us with mindless details about the birth. As long as Mum and baby are doing okay we don’t really want to know all the gory details.  Stop over-sharing.

    • Zoe says:

      05:31pm | 20/01/11

      Thats the difference between Princess Mary - Show us the babies, Oh how cute, And Mirranda - Too much information. Yes your husband is hotter, Yes you are also hotter, Yes you are both richer and more tallented than the rest of us and now, Look at that supermum as well, drug free birth then laying back breastfeeding baby with a perfect full face of make-up.( I still like my baby nephew better cos I can actually cuddle him and hes the cutest baby in the whole world)

    • Jess says:

      01:08pm | 20/01/11

      Excellent article.  I have no children and am not yet married.  For me I find it strange that people elect to have c-sections for vanity reasons (but hey to each is own).  I had to have surgery a few years back for gallstones (they put the pain of an attack on par with childbirth) it was keyhole and I was terrified, to the point of having panic attacks which would in turn set off the gallstone attacks.  The idea of being cut nearly the whole way across your stomach sends chills down my spine that and the fact that you are usually awake while it happens…This means that of course I will try for a “natural birth” complete with drugs and gas…but if my doctor happened to say that I need a c-section…would I scoff at the idea…Certainly Not

    • Fairsnotfair says:

      02:58pm | 20/01/11

      I’ve read all the comments but still don’t understand the need to describe childbirthing in glorioue (or not so glorious) detail to all and sundry. Is nothing private or personal anymore? Do we have no shame? Is flaunting and competing (and therein lying & cheating) on Bookface the standard now?

      I am so glad I had my turn at reproducing quite some years ago: we didn’t have the money to hire purchase a Prado & fit it out from a magazine. We didn’t have the internet to follow the baby’s minute by minute development pre- and post-natal.

      Neither did we wear labels on the outside of our clothes.

      Miranda Kerr & her ilk are not heroes for reproducing. Let’s stop holding them up as the benchmark. And don’t get me started on the selfishness of Mrs Urban ......

    • funnelwebkitten says:

      03:52pm | 20/01/11

      Why is Nicole selfish, they obviously wanted another baby, and Nicole was told that after her many miscarriages that it just wasn’t going to happen naturally.

      So she has two choices, IVF, which apparently failed, and surrogacy, which the Americans take a more relaxed view of than we do, so why is it selfish?

      I think it’s wonderful that there are women out there who are unselfish enough to offer up the choice to carry a baby for those who cannot.

      Where and what is the selfishness?

    • Fairsnot fair says:

      08:01pm | 23/01/11

      Selfish, yes. Those poor children. Collecting children as if they were Oscars. Too selfish to put her body out of shape. Too selfish to eat correctly while pregnant. IVF failed? Doubt it. Again, the effects on one’s body are not for our Nic. Skin blemishes, bloating, dry hair…. those injections play havoc with one’s image. Much better to pick up one of those child thingy’s when next at the supermarket. That’s right, we even have our goodies delivered!

      Amazing what money can buy.

    • stephen says:

      03:28pm | 20/01/11

      That’s a very nice photo, and she appears entirely without pretension.
      I hope everything is well with her and baby.

    • midwifemamma says:

      04:03pm | 20/01/11

      So, wait - we shouldn’t discuss our childbirth experiences with other women in case we offend them, or strike a nerve, or make them feel inadequate?  Should we keep childbirth all neat, and quiet and repressed so as not to offend the sensibilities of the masses?  Childbirth is a natural process in life, and we are very lucky to live in a time when it has never been safer to have a child, where there are a raft of interventions available should they be needed, and where women are encouraged to make choices that suit them. This has come about because of frank and open dialogue between women about women.  If it weren’t for mothers discussing their birth experiences, and acting as consumer advocates, we would all still be having enemas, vaginal shaves and birthing in lethotomy as a matter of routine.  If women feel inadequate about their birthing experiences, perhaps they should look within to find out the reasons why, rather than using the tired old excuse, “they made me feel bad”.  Women need confidence within themselves.  Forget about what other people are doing, and focus on what works for you.

    • Lisa H. says:

      08:51pm | 20/01/11

      Childbirth is so painful, it is a major experience, probably something akin to having your arm sawn off withour pain relief.
      Oh, but we can’t scare the young girls, so let’s not discuss the realities and risks of childbirth.
      I wonder what the mental health is of women in third world countries that have an unassisted birth every year or two?

    • Your name:Megan says:

      10:42am | 12/06/11

      I agree that part of a woman’s life SHOULD be hearing about what it can be like - if they choose to know.  I DO think, however, that so often the reason women feel “bad” is because they are hearing derogatory comments when they are still very vulnerable - post partum.  Seven years out, I could give a damn what people think about how I gave birth to my son, and why I both breast and bottle fed.  Back then - I was overwhelmed, exhausted and had (luckily mild) post partum depression.  Let’s look at supporting women those first few months, and help them realize that the most important thing is to do what is right for them and their babies

    • john tracey says:

      04:30pm | 20/01/11

      are children and parents competitive with each other from womb to tomb?

    • Kate says:

      04:42pm | 20/01/11

      I’ve got high blood pressure and will probably require a C-section when I have children. If anyone uses the phrase ‘too posh to push’ within earshot during my pregnancy, I swear, I will punch them in the nose.

    • Bianca says:

      04:47pm | 20/01/11

      I appreciate this post and the conflict the author is trying to quash, but want to point out that not all of us rant on about our pain free, drug free, normal births to make others feel like lesser humans or mothers. However, in the fairytale vs horror story race, there are far more circulating abouo the latter.
      I would encourage women to view their upcoming birth with joy, anticipation, excitement. Hard to do when we are bombarded with negative stories and energy throughout pregnancy.
      To those who have not yet given birth, just remember, their experiences are theirs, and yours will be yours. Just allow yourself the opportunity to experience it before you freak out.. You might be pleasantly surprised!

    • theredwitch says:

      05:01pm | 20/01/11

      I’ve experienced this without ever having had children. I decided last year to have a child on my own (shock, horror!) through donor sperm & IVF as the law was changing for single women in 2011. For financial reasons I have postponed the decision but the reaction from my sister who had a 6-month old was horrific.

      My sister (who is subclinical for obsessive-compulsive disorder) had decided that I wasn’t allowed to have a child on my own because I was single, because it was too hard and because she wasn’t sure what kind of parent I’d make. And she’d decided all this because she wasn’t coping with her own child.

      I remember being on the phone with her as she grilled me on how I would raise my potential child. The topic of bed sharing with a baby was raised. ‘I think we have really different ways of parenting’, she said in horror, realisation dawning that other people might do things differently. And be allowed to.

    • MelD says:

      05:06pm | 20/01/11

      I can’t understand the whole one up manship that goes on, i am pregnant and i have strangers come up to me and try to touch my belly and say oh it took us however many months to conceive how about you, i reply back 2 weeks in hawaii, had the best time ever but came back with this, no idea who the father is either lol, they usually walk away then

    • shelagh says:

      07:27pm | 20/01/11

      i have no real issue wit hmost of the questions, but try to touch the tummy…

    • Lisa says:

      05:20pm | 20/01/11

      As anticipated, Miranda Kerr survives labour on Goji berries and Fiji water alone. Eyeroll.

      One midwife said to me during my labour, ‘If you want an epidural, ask for one. We don’t give out gold stars for those who have endured the most pain.’ Good point, I think.

    • Shifter says:

      05:57pm | 20/01/11

      Off topic, I know but I’m prompted ask - which is more painful: childbirth or getting kicked in the testicles?

    • Bianca says:

      10:02pm | 20/01/11

      My guess is the kick.. Provided labour starts spontaneously and mum is allowed to be upright and active, and is generally healthy. My labour was a doddle, but my head was straight and I was insistent on what I wanted.
      No ‘poor me look at what I went through’ from over here…

    • Lisa H. says:

      11:09pm | 20/01/11

      Sorry Bianca, but are you ‘one-upping’??
      You sound like the guy who had to had his arm sawn off… and loved it.
      Doesn’t make you tough…just makes you a liar.
      As a woman who has had technically ‘perfect’ births (standing up!) I feel the realities (and glories!) of birth wouldn’t be so ‘hushed up and personal’ if men did it.
      I

    • AJ says:

      06:00pm | 20/01/11

      And then some. When did your baby started crawling, walking, said the first word ...

    • Rhys says:

      06:00pm | 20/01/11

      I am 17 weeks pregnant with my first child, and havent laughed this hard and this long (from reading your opinion piece Emma) since before my head was unceremoniously forced into a bucket 50 times a day some 13 weeks back. Thank you for the laugh! As a first timer I do have ideas of childbirthing preferences (vaginal over C-section and no drugs versus the pain free - where am I experience) if not to remind myself that I DONT want to do this again (“please kill me” in these last 13 weeks has been the hall mark of my home-from-work greeting to my husband) but also because I rationalise that MILLIONS of women did it before drugs, so why cant I (I have been warned that after the 20th hour of labour I will be either pulling the baby out myself or, and only if I cant reach, will I be reaching for something sharp and threatening all those close for the epedural 10 hours ago!). I have also heard that labour usually copies your mothers experience - cant see how THAT works considering my grandmother spent 4hrs in labour with twins and my mother was 15 minutes with me…timing seems a little off to me. So for me, if I can (and I have the ability and strength to do so) I choose vaginal and no drugs, and if our daughter has other plans well then its the C-section and fairy land for me. Irrespective of the outcome, I want it over NOW - but science hasnt figured a way to do THAT yet, so until then, for all those on the sidelines - “you want to “help”?....YOU do it for me and I’ll support you ALL THE WAY!

    • Kathy says:

      06:02pm | 20/01/11

      The best thing for us mothers to remember is that it’s not all about us…it is not our birth!!!  So be guided by the experts in what is best for your baby!

    • Kath in Bris says:

      07:24pm | 20/01/11

      You know what, after my second daughter’s heart rate dropped to just about nothing and was stuck in the vaginal passage, the only thing that comes back to me about her birth was the fact she wasn’t breathing when she came out and was a shocking shade of violet-blue.  I thank god for the 2 doctors that were there to get her going again.  Later that night in the hospital ward I heard the desperate cries of a woman who had lost her baby - it was devastating.  It puts the safe birth of your child into perspective. The main thing is that the baby comes out safe and healthy.

      And I also read a line about raising ‘free range’ kids - I like this…gives me an image of kids running around a paddock laughing and cavorting - really puts it back on making sure the kids are happy and enjoying their lives rather than being over scheduled and exhausted.

    • Susie says:

      10:06pm | 20/01/11

      Here here!  If it was not for the experts neither myself or my 2 children would be here.  I did what was best for them and if I hadn’t I would not now have 2 healthy kids, regardless of how they got here.

    • Anna says:

      06:53pm | 20/01/11

      My friend recently told me that her stepmother, who has an unusual shaped uterus and was giving birth for the first time aged close to 40 was advised for health reasons to have a c-section but refused, had a very and difficult long natural, drug-free labour and heamorraged so badly she almost died. As you say, it’s not how you have the baby, so many of us do not have control over how it happens. I had an accidental homebirth, not something I would have chosen. I got hailed a hero but really I had no choice, and I was lucky that I had no complications. I don’t see anything heroic there really, just did what I had to do and had support from my family there. And generally I am always interested in people’s stories but far be it for me to judge them. Well done!

    • Dominika says:

      08:08pm | 20/01/11

      I was 23 when I had my first baby. I thought I’d do it drug free as nature intended. Yeah right, within 2 hours I started my appetiser, gas. Moved on to the main (pethedine) a few hours later and for dessert got a juicy epidural. After 2 days of labour my daughter wasn’t coming out anyway due to her size (9.5lbs) she got stuck so ended up having a c-section. I didn’t care how she came into this world, just as long as she was safe. Years later I had 2 more c-sections, didn’t even bother doing the ‘natural’ thing as I’m sure I wouldn’t made it due to my boys sizes (10.2lbs & 10.8lbs)
      As far as taking drugs when feeling pain….I’m sure you take a panadol if you have a headache! What’s the difference?!

    • jag33 says:

      11:00pm | 20/01/11

      I did 3 out of 4 labors completely drug free, the last one was drug free until after the baby was born and the placenta refused to come out, and the cord snapped when attempting to pull it out, having a history of pph they wasted no time (exercising the stupid active third stage management plan) and preparing to whisk me up to theatre and manually go fetch it and pull it out. The doctor insisted on using an epidural to numb it all during the extraction, lol I insisted to be out cold for the whole ordeal, there weren’t enough drugs as far as I was concerned for that part of it.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      08:50pm | 20/01/11

      Childbirth, yes I admit that women do this better than men, however…...

    • Robert D. Ingle says:

      09:23pm | 20/01/11

      What a beautiful photo of a beautiful girl, so happy for her .......
      I have not bothered reading the rest of the posts as they are probably full of noxious crap ....
      Miranda be happy I love you.

    • Allison T says:

      09:49pm | 20/01/11

      Great post. It’s when people start telling me that I missed out on the Birth Experience and offering me counselling due to my two emergency C-sections that I really want to throw things at me. Birth Experience? Sounds like the latest ride at Dreamworld. I had two births, got two boys, was quite an experience!

    • Amy says:

      12:14am | 21/01/11

      However a woman gives birth, it is an amazing achievement! No woman should be made to feel as though her child’s birth and her birth choices were wrong or bad. As long as it’s what is best for the physical and mental health of both mum and baby. I doubt there are (m)any women out there who have said “Well, the baby might be in acute distress and if I labour much longer my baby might have brain damage or die, but too bad because I don’t want any drugs” or “I want an elective caesarian at 7 1/2 months because the baby’s due date will otherwise coincide with my annual holiday in the South of France”. Most parents want to do what is best for their baby.

    • Michelle says:

      01:11am | 21/01/11

      When my ob said I would need a c-section due to previous surgery.  I didn’t even let him finish the sentence.  I was like ‘excellent’.  When the time came I walked into the theatre, had a needle in my back and was given lots of dia morphine - I was very much enjoying myself. 

      Too posh to push?  If that is the ‘put down’ for not wanting to be in horrific pain, no matter how natural then I wear it proudly.  I made the correct choice as I was later told the cord was around my son’s neck and I would have to have had an emergency one anyway and they would have sliced my bladder as it had moved due to previous surgery.

      Happy with an medicated birth - for sure. 

      Did I feel I missed out on anything - nope.  The prize at the end doesn’t change… a BABY.

      As I knew in advance when it would be I didn’t have any of the stress of worrying about the birth.  Being physically fit I was up and about that night and I had no pain.  6 weeks later I got the all clear to exercise and my Ob said my stomach was back together quicker than some who had a natural birth.

    • MelD says:

      12:27pm | 21/01/11

      I am trying to decide on my birth plan…..don’t want an epidural as the thought of a needle in my spine sends chills down my spine, one sneeze yowzer! thinking either pethadine or just knock me out with a stick or just c-section, whatever, whichever way the doc suggests i am there as long as it is pain free

    • Gary Greer says:

      07:53am | 21/01/11

      Isn’t the birth of a baby from a mother’s uterus, no matter how it moves out, natural? We’ve evolved into a species with a badly designed birth canal that forces the baby to rotate 90 degrees half way through, and the simple fact that anyone at all survives that is astonishing. If anyone needs some kind of assistance to be born, why not?

    • Mitchy says:

      08:29am | 21/01/11

      I have worked in a maternity hospital for quite some time and I don’t have any children myself but as I plan on having trying for a family soon I have already made the decision to have an elective caesarean. This is due to both my mother and sister ending up in intensive care from the effects of eclampsia.

      Knowing that pre-eclampsia and further complications is highly likely for me, I thought I was doing the sensible thing to discuss options with my doctor before waiting to get in trouble. What I didn’t realise is the debate it would set off inside my circle of family and friend and then people much further removed from my situation.

      No matter how many books you read or who you talk to, you can never really be prepared for your own experience.

      It goes without saying that you expect a happy and healthy baby who will go on to become a well adjusted adult and live happily ever after. That’s a side bar of this whole debate and using that as the bottom line is dismissive of other important issues.

      Women compare as a form of therapy. It’s the same as how big your engagement ring is or any other comparable example. Some people wear their delivery as a badge of honour. Some people use their story for sympathy. Some people have no idea about the birds and the bees and what it takes to bring a baby in to the world and are surprised with the resulting outcome. Others can be quite dismissive about something they know very little about.

      What I find really interesting is how little is actually explored about women’s feelings and resulting mental impact of child birth for those who are stuck in the cycle of emotion. Everyone is pretty familiar with post natal depression as a possible hurdle of childbirth and the coming months. Not very many people hear about the complications and the resulting post traumatic issues while juggling the multitasking of being the primary carer of a highly dependent being.

      Some women feel very strongly about “getting it right” next time or not going through what someone else went through. Who’s to say it’s right? What’s right for you? Why is your way better than mine? Why can’t you see the short comings of your theories? What was the fork in the road that meant their delivery took the path it did? Could it really have been changed? Why can’t you just wake up to yourself and be grateful for having a healthy baby?

      Some women are flat out whingers. Some love to brag. There are many women who are happy to share their story, good or bad. Spare a thought for those who can’t, or those whose experience has become so live consuming that they can’t let go, then remember the impact that has on family and relationships.

      We wish for the best, but let’s not dismiss any issues.

    • Lindy says:

      10:24am | 22/01/11

      My first birthing experience was anything but “natural”...my daughter had died in-utero and, knowing this, I went through labour and birth, held her for a few scant hours and .....well, it was anything but “natural”.

      So for my second child, the only thing which constituted a “natural” birth was taking her home with me at the finish.  So, when after 14 hours of labour, her heart rate began to dip and she showed signs of distress and the OB suggested a Caesar, I was up for that like a shot.

      To the acquaintance of mine who asked me about a month later if I felt like I had “failed”....I replied, “Not this time, no.  I brought her home with me, she’s doing fine, no failure here.”

      When baby no 3 was imminent, and I began to go a bit emotionally wobbly about the thought of repeating experience no 1, I elected for an elective caesar and had my baby in my arms, kicking and screaming in no time flat.

      The birthing process is but one part of a long journey continuing forever, when you hold your live child in your arms - you had a “successful” “natual” birth….how they came out just fades into history.

    • Megan says:

      11:00am | 12/06/11

      I had my son just over 7 years ago.  I had drugs for a variety of reasons. It was a long labour, after a crazy week (norwalk virus for both daddy and I).  And yes, I breast AND bottle fed for a variety of reasons.  You know what. I have a wonderful, bright, normal, argumentative, stubborn, contrary, busy kid.  And I only wish I could have some of those drugs for me at the end of some of my days now!!!  However they come into the world, be they from your own body, from someone else’s, from another country… how they get here is minor (although believe me, I plan to use the 26hrs of back labour on him!!!) they’re here.  Love them, raise them, revel in them.  Let’s stop knocking each other down (especially post partum, c’mon, talk about a vulnerable EXHAUSTIVE time!) and celebrate we’re doing the hardest job ever - trying to raise another human being to be someone you want in this world.  Now THAT is hard work.

    • Rp says:

      10:35pm | 05/11/11

      I have an 8 month old son who I delivered drug free and I’m very proud of what I achieved. A “friend” recently had an emergency Caesarian after a long labour and has been mocking me in crowds. Her favorite comment is “what did you have to prove are you some sort of martyr?” ummm I had nothing to prove!I chose to deliver my way. Is she jealous that I coped thru the labour or does she feel insecure about being unable to deliver naturally? I am getting fed up with her comments! Do any other mothers have this problem?

 

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