Greg Combet has more policy hounds on his tail than any other minister. He is in charge of the introduction of a “carbon tax”, and the arguments against him have been outnumbering those for.

If you missed the joke, Google 'talking twins'. Cartoon: Mark Knight

So the Climate Change Minister went to the National Press Club to highlight—and he hoped erase—some of those policy problems which are dogging this attempt to get up a pricing mechanism for carbon pollution.

He all but ticked them off, one by one, in front of the audience.

Combet:

Firstly, Australia is one of the world’s top 20 polluters and we release more pollution per person than any other country in the developed world - more than the US. Not only is it in our national interest to act, we have a responsibility to do so.

As politely as he could, Combet told us we are energy pigs who burn our way throuigh more carbon that even the over-indulgent Americans. We make the Americans look like a candle-power economy. For our own good we should end the waste and get more energy efficient.

Combet:

Just as the 1980s reforms laid down the bedrock of our current prosperity, pricing carbon will ensure that the Australian economy of the 21st century remains globally competitive. Critical to understanding the national interest case for taking action on climate change is an acknowledgement that long term reform should also be based on the principle of intergenerational equity.

There is a strong view that we have plenty of time to talk about this. It’s not as if the glaciers are going to melt any more slowly if we don’t take our time to get a pricing package right.

Rather than talk of acting now to ease global warning in the future, Combet put the carbon price in the context of a basic reform which had to start soon so that it could move throgh the economy for maximum benefit in the longer term.

Like those Hawke, Keating, Howard reforms from the `80s and `90s now kicking in, a carbon pricing system would benefit the economy one or two decades hence.

Combet:

China - the world’s largest emitter - is now the world’s largest manufacturer of both solar panels and wind turbines and is definitely reducing the carbon intensity of its economy. Only yesterday further information confirming China’s plans for emissions trading in six regions was reported. Despite a hostile Congress and a major economic downturn, the United States is also taking action at a national level, as well as at a state level. The US is progressively introducing regulations covering carbon pollution from large industrial facilities under its Clean Air Act.

One of the biggest obstacles to Australia taking on carbon pricing is the perception that it is a unilateral venture. Nobody, goes the argument, is as stupid as us, certainly not those constant carbon incinerators the Chinese.  This is a consequence, in part, of the collapse of objectives at the 2009 UN’s Cophenhagen climate change conference. It seems as if it is now every man and country for themselves.

Combet has a simple message he must get through to Australian voters. And that is, “We are not alone”.

Combet:

At $20 in the steel industry, the average carbon price after 94.5 per cent assistance for the core pollution intensive activity would be around $2.60 per tonne of steel, out of a price per tonne of steel of around $800. In the aluminium industry, the average carbon price after assistance for the core pollution intensive activity would be around $18.70 per tonne of aluminium, out of a price of around $2,500 per tonne of aluminium.

The Government is being portrayed as a butcher of industry, of being ready to use a carbon price to slash Australian manufacturing and chase what is left off-shore. The minister wanted to put some perspective to the accusation.

He said fewer than 1000 companies would pay penalties for pollution, and that most emissions, about half, came from the 50 biggest emitters.

There would be assistance for vulnerable industries which used a lot of energy - so much that, Combet indicated, the addition to prices would be marginal.

Combet:

The Prime Minister has made it clear that we will put households first. There will be generous assistance for households to meet costs that may be passed on by the companies that are paying for their pollution. Assistance for pensioners and low and middle-income households will be a priority. I can assure you that under our carbon price more than 50 per cent of the carbon price revenue will be used to assist households; millions of households will be better off under the carbon price; and the assistance will be permanent.

This is where the dogs are barking loudest. The Abbott Opposition is maintaining its campaign that a “big new tax” is on the way and that the Government’s stubborn insistence on carbon pricing will be paid for out of household budgets.

Kevin Rudd didn’t push this element of his policy until it was too late.

The Minister has not just said pensioners, low and middle-income earners will be fully compensated for price increases; they will make a few dollars on top of that basic rebate.

So the scheme is scheduled to start in July, 2012, leading up to an election scheduled for late 2013. It might be handy for the Government to have extra dollars going to families in the lead-up to that election. But would the money be there? It might be that the Government would pay in advance to produce a warm feeling in the electorate that wasn’t caused by global heating.

Combet:

Leading Liberals such as John Howard, Peter Costello, Malcolm Turnbull, Joe Hockey and John Hewson, to name a few, are all on the record as supporting the market-based reform that the Government is trying to make.

The Minister would like you to know that pricing carbon is not the idea of weirdo lefties and bongo-brained environmentalists. The pantheon of Liberal leaders and near-leaders includes lots of people who think it is a sensible idea.

But it is a sign there is a long way to go on this issue if the former ACTU leader and Labor minister quotes John Howard with relish.

198 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Against the Man says:

      02:53pm | 13/04/11

      Ha very interesting, firstly where is Gilltard?  Next does the ALP think we are that dumb? This is their policy, I mean Gilltard clearly stated no carbon tax in her election promise. So is this a take back because she couldn’t form a majority government and she is doing whatever it takes to please Master Bob Brown?

      Can the ALP guarantee that ALL household especially the middle income bunch which pay a hell of a lot of tax and get so little in return be protected?

      I say it is simple, if you don’t want the carbon tax or feel it is hurting your back pocket than don’t vote for the ALP/Green coalition.

      This is going to cost us in more ways than we can imagine and when fuel and interest rates start their upward hike, Australians are really going to feel the pinch.

      So far we haven’t seen any significant ALP policy success, this looks like a failure even before it has been implemented. By the way looks like $650 million down the drain with SuperClinics not living up to the hype and we are seeing the slash and burn to cut corners and save money.

      http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/funding-cuts-will-send-our-scientists-overseas-ama-20110413-1ddeu.html

      http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/scan-patients-lives-at-risk-radiologists/story-e6frf7jx-1226038185623

      Looking bad, real bad…..............

    • Bruce says:

      03:59pm | 13/04/11

      “There will be NO carbon tax under a government I lead”. Clearly the ‘BROWNEY’ is in charge, Juliar is just the PM in name only.

    • Tom says:

      04:44pm | 13/04/11

      Well said ATM. No mention of Gillard? I wonder why? Because Gillard / Labor said before the election, they wouldn’t be taxing us. Then Gillard said after the election, they would be taxing us.

      Get it folks? ... Hawker Britton (Ministry of Truth) is telling us, “Yes, Labor lied, but it was for our benefit because, in a democracy, we are too stupid to understand what is good for us. Given that democracy is sometimes bad for you, we decided to suspend democracy for your good.”

      But the kicker is, Mal wants us to forget all that, so he fails to tell us what the “real Jooliar” thinks about it. Why? Because Jooliar has a bit of a stench at the moment. So he brings in Combet the latest mouth-piece for the Labor tax raising machine.

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      06:38pm | 13/04/11

      This tax raises ‘Magic Dollars’. Y’see, according to various ALP promises, half of the money raised will be returned to families, half will go toward developing clean energy, half will go toward protecting energy-intensive industries, half will go toward protecting union jobs and the last half will go to the UN.

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      06:41pm | 13/04/11

      Love the “What he said and what he meant” title. I suppose it’s necessary with all utterances from the ALP to tear away the lie and reveal the truth, eh?

    • michael j says:

      07:05pm | 13/04/11

      What is this problem climate change anyway ,,some people with waterfront properties will have to move,,yes,,some places where it is cold will get hot,?some places that are dry will get rain,,sahara desert,central Australia ? some places that receive much rain will not get as much,,?
      somehow i can a balance starting to appear,,?
      Now the ALP and LNP have a plan to do away with the welfare system,by sending all people back to doctors,where they will do doubt
      Steven hawking Principal ,if he can make a living and write a book so can you, many many thousands are forced onto newstart worth a little more then half DSP,,p eople on newstart are to be forced to drag their families around the country looking for work at the minum wage,,As for old age pensioners there’s not a lot more they can do to them retirement age 72,,that takes care of the 1/3 of Australian’s living below except for the ones on minum wage which will not change except the new TAX will start to push these people further into a hunger mode that on some days may feel like starvation,which will greatly increase reliance on non Government resources FOOD handouts at churches and such,,
      Now after these measures the Government is going to compensate these people with a couple of hundred dollars,,
      Today on the 13 th of April 2011 over a BILLION people on planet Earth are starving, many ,many millions probably died,,and we are turning grain into fuel for cars,,,not even a drink,,,,,
      IT has been reported that in 2048,, 36 years from now 4 billion people will die from starvation,,is the Government trying to soften us ,or the next
      up for something they don’t want to talk about,, exactly how many people die in 2048 from climate change? at are the expected death rates for climate change over the next century ?
      IF 4 BILLION people die plus the ones in the lead up to this event won’t that have an effect on climate change,,,,,,,,,,,,,,???
      no taxes without representation there’s a lot of people not being heard,,

    • Joan says:

      07:17pm | 13/04/11

      Yep ocker Combet `Magic Carbon Tax Pudding` that makes Australian households richer…..

    • Mikko says:

      03:11pm | 14/04/11

      And nobody put their hand up and asked how much will the world temperature drop at the end of this money-go-round game. The best I’ve seen scientists come up with if we stopped all our CO2 emissions in Australia is one-thousandth of one degree. And when can we expect a drop in world temps? According to our highly paid part time climate advisor Prof Tim Flannery, it might take 1,000 years to notice any change.
      Yep sounds like a great deal, should be an easy sell, what’s all the fuss?

    • Dann Da Man says:

      04:07pm | 14/04/11

      Gillard is missing because .......
      Gillard cannot be trusted or believed on anything she states she will do like reimbursing households. She is attempting to divide the people of this country and then conquer. I cannot and will not believe a word she says as she tells untruths so convincingly and any person in Australia with any common sense will doubt her 100% on we will be better off financially and that is why she has Combert out there fibbing for her ,BIG fibs.

    • Louisa says:

      02:53pm | 13/04/11

      “Firstly, Australia is one of the world’s top 20 polluters and we release more pollution per person than any other country in the developed world - more than the US….”

      We may also be able to say we have more redheads per capita or more children with pimples per capita.

      WE are a VAST country with little population

    • hermes says:

      04:14pm | 13/04/11

      Yes, I’d like to see the actual data that backs this up. AFAIK, it is a total furphy, and all based on coal exports, land clearing for agriculture and transport costs, because of the vast distances. Saying that Australians are some of the world’s largest emitters is, frankly, bollocks. For all I know, it’s based on the totally bodgy Ecological Footprint nonsense. All the carbon tax is, is a revenue raiser, to make the budget look good, because those idiots Swan and Gillard don’t think they can get the mining tax across the line.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      05:10pm | 13/04/11

      Malcolm, let us have som eabsolutes, please. Compare the actual amount of pollution emitted by Australia with that emitted by China and India. 
       
      After all, that is what is important - how much is being put out there. 
       
      This is just more ALP spin, bullshit and lies.
       
      Same old, same old.

    • Tom says:

      05:49pm | 13/04/11

      ‘all based on coal exports, land clearing for agriculture and transport costs, because of the vast distances.’

      - coal exports to provide for Aussie jobs and tax to supply government coffers to provide for Aussie services
      - land clearing for agriculture to provide for Aussie groceries and Aussie exports
      - transport costs to supply and support the Aussie economy

      Just because it didn’t come from your lightbulb or power socket doesn’t mean you are not a part of it.

    • LeftRightOut says:

      08:32pm | 13/04/11

      Forget not, this new focus on CHina’s “Carbon intensity” - more spin, bullcrap, now faithfully spouted by Farr as though it actually meant something.
      Everyone who is for this tax, is lying their backsides off!

    • bretto says:

      08:35pm | 13/04/11

      Why does this lie that we are the largest carbon emitter per capita continue to be used? The latest figures by U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) put Aus at 15th for carbon emissions per capita - http://bit.ly/e3XxUi http://1.usa.gov/4xWlg2

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:03am | 14/04/11

      Louisa, If you go by the per capita rankings and there are many you can choose from.

      You are correct in all charts we range from No8 to No1.

      However when you work out the actual amount of pollution we do produce it is 0.15% of the world total emissions. That’s correct 0.15% of the total of world emissions.

      In any chart you use it is the same result from the Department of Climate Change and http://www.treehugger.com figures which rank us as No1 at 21 metric tonnes/ capita to the CSIRO figures ranking us at No8 at 17.5 metric tonnes / Capita.

      If this tax gets the best result it can possibly get in saving emissions as put forward by the Government and the Garnaut report of 5% savings in emissions. This will save the world 0.0073% of Global emissions.

      When we have saved that enormous amount of Carbon compared to world production on all charts on all comparisons we still remain in the exact same position.

      No 1 on The Department of Climate change figures and http://www.treehugger.com to
      No 8 on the CSIRO figures.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      03:02pm | 13/04/11

      Reason?? Since when did reason come into this debate. The Carbon Tax is evil, wicked and the plan of Satan according to conservatives. And that is that.

    • Paulb says:

      03:44pm | 13/04/11

      No, its the plan for those who want to widen the global tax base, while pretending it isn’t a tax, and pretending its all for good works.

    • LeftRightOut says:

      08:21pm | 13/04/11

      Lucky Farris here here to spruke it on behalf of the government, he really is taking sycophancy to the next level… unbelievable!

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:07am | 14/04/11

      I’m a conservative and I don’t think it is evil or a plan of Satan at all.

      I think it is a tax which will cost us $2550 / household / year to save 0.0073% of global emissions and therefore a burden Australia does not need and a total waste of time effort and money with no result.

    • Jim says:

      03:12pm | 13/04/11

      People have short memories. Combet was a thug and a rat in the late 90’s. His word back then were full of hate and lies, and it was only his own career he was looking out for.

      A leopard doesn’t change it’s spots…I’ve seen nothing from Combet to suggest he is anything other than the vile, violent union meathead he was 12 years ago.

      I would not believe a word he says.

    • Dave-o says:

      04:47pm | 13/04/11

      He’s a salesman, most politicians are.

    • Nite Lite says:

      07:05pm | 13/04/11

      He is a unionist head cracking wharfie…no insult intended to the REAL wharfies or fair dinkem union members. It just goes to show that anybody with a kmart tie and birth control glasses can be a politician.  Please parents, raise your kids to get good honest professions when they grow up!

    • K says:

      03:13pm | 13/04/11

      Ignore the “news” article from Malcolm.  Check out the cartoon for the real story on pricing carbon dioxide, ie there is no sense to Labor’s argument for a carbon tax.  They are just generating jobs for the boys using our taxes, robbing from the rich to give to the poor will make everyone poor.  If you haven’t seen the utube clip I highly recommend you do so.  At least that will give you something to laugh about.

    • Super D says:

      03:17pm | 13/04/11

      The important thing to note re China is that they are reducing carbon intensity and not carbon emissions.  Their CO2 emissions per unit of GDP will be reduced but their GDP and total carbon emissions will increase.  THis doesn’t actually represent any actual effort to reduce emissions - it simply happens as the services sector of the economy develops. 

      It’s also worth noting that the emissions associated with the coal we dig up for China to burn in their power stations counts on our tally, not theirs.  This is another flawed aspect of the way carbon is spoken about - emission production, rather than consumption.  This is basically European trickery - they have essentially outsourced their emissions production to the developing world while increasing consumption every year.

      Needless to say the target start date is ambitious to say the least from a government with a pretty poor track record of rolling programs out in a hurry.

    • David C says:

      03:55pm | 13/04/11

      it doesnt get any more flawed than to refer to it as carbon pollution, its carbon dioxide and it is a long bow to draw to call it pollution.

    • John says:

      04:23pm | 13/04/11

      Funny also how Combet and Gillard told us to follow the European lead. If we are to do that then nuclear power must be a major part of power reform. Also note till the Japan nuclear crisis China was looking at opening more nuclear power plants but now will open more coal powered plants instead increasing thier pollution

    • Joan says:

      03:21pm | 13/04/11

      Combet was pathetic .... nothing new, then he reached for the lowest figure of $20 from Garnaut package to support his pathetic arguments and promised that many households will be better off .  Same old rehash That was bad enough, having not convinced anyone in the room… the faces said it all, the looks said it all, is that all there is?,,,, no nods of agreement to be seen anywhere…. Combet got worse- having no real evidence against Direct Action….. he decided to spend five minutes on what he called `exposing` Abbott…...... and the highlight of Combet talk was to quote a statement by John Howard about the quality of Australian people and change.  Combet his pathetic paper shuffling, money shuffling, permit shuffling Carbon Tax on the road to killing Australia slowly. ..... turns and looks to Liberals of the past to give his pathetic scheme any credibilty….. Sad, very sad .

    • Joombi O'Flaherty says:

      07:02pm | 13/04/11

      Go Joan! Make sure you repeat all this when you go on Mike Jeffrey’s radio program tonight

    • Doh says:

      03:22pm | 13/04/11

      Since when did you become Combet’s b*(&$

    • Doh says:

      05:08pm | 13/04/11

      If this was not going to cost Australians so much I would p!$$ myself laughing at your self appointed role as Combet’s interpreter.
      Point 1: It is totally irresponsible for global warming campaigners to use Australia’s per capita CO2 emissions as evidence of Australia’s contribution to global emissions.  The facts are that
      -China and the US are still the highest total emitters
      -Man’s CO2 emissions account for 3% (at best) of total CO2 emissions and Australia contributes around 1% of that 3%,
      -Australia is the 8th highest emitter per capita behind Qatar, United Arab Emirates, Kuwait, Bahrain, United States, Luxembourg and Trinidad & Tobago.

      Point 2: It is a very long bow to draw in comparing superannuation and floating the dollar to introducing a carbon tax that is going to raise the cost of living across the board.  If it such a foundational economic reform, pray tell where is our Treasurer (Swan) and Finance Minister (Wong)?  What of Gillard and Brown?  Why weren’t they there at the press club?? 

      Point 3: Incredibly Combet does acknowledge that China is the biggest emitter.  However, seeing as though folk like Combet are so keen to use per capita figures, how does China compare in solar panel production world-wide on a per capita basis?  Funnily, Combet makes no mention of China’s program for new bigger coal fired power station and (gasp) nuclear power stations.

      Point 4: Here is an idea, rather than taking 100% of the carbon tax then giving back 94.5%, leave them alone and let them keep that 100% in the first place.  These generous compensation scheme won’t encourage any industry to change anything.  Additionally, if all this money is being used to compensate industry, where is the money to permanently compensate the millions of households?

      Point 5: See also response to point 4.  Exactly how many millions of households will be better off?  Unless is it roughly 7 – 10 million households (all Australians) then presumably millions of households will be worse off.

      Point 6: It must kill Combet to have to compare himself to the likes of Howard and Costello.  After all, it was not that long ago that Union Boss Combet was inciting the sacking of Parliament house.  Besides, a lot has changed since Howard/Costello/Hewson/Hockey first drafted their emissions policies.

    • jasperjen says:

      03:22pm | 13/04/11

      Starting to sound more like a bribe than compensation,well guess after I pay more for my power and petrol,which I probably wont reduce consumption on, as I am already doing that because of the high cost Might have a little extra to put in the Pokies if i can bring myself to register to play them in this new nanny State.

    • LeftRightOut says:

      08:30pm | 13/04/11

      You know it’s all BS when, before they even release ANY detail on the tax itself, they’re out there (with the help of their ALP mates such as Malcolm Farr) spruking up the compensation package.

      No price detail, no tax structure, nothing, but you’ll get paid port barrellers!

      This stinks to high heaven!

    • Sean says:

      03:28pm | 13/04/11

      You know, I just can’t ever believe anything this govt says. They’re a group of pathological liars. At this point, I would really just like them to admit that they lied.

    • Rosie says:

      03:32pm | 13/04/11

      Combet, Gillard and other Labor MPs should just get on with selling their no detail carbon tax without mentioning what Tony Abbott and the Coalition are doing about tackling the problem of carbon emissions their way! For any kind of credibility the Gillard Govt should drop using especially Tony Abbott in defence to selling a tax with no details.

      If it is so good, their should sell it with confidence without always demeaning Tony Abbott and the Coalition. To add to their favour they have the Greens and Independents to get it through. So what is the problem and why is people like Penny Wong saying; “reforms are hard to get through?”

      What are they afraid of? Looking ahead to the results of the next elections and realizing they need to get rid of Tony Abbott because he is the biggest threat to Gillard retaining the Primeministership!

      Compensate as much as they like, the majority who cares about the planet will not be lied to and therefore will not support the carbon tax!

    • scubasteve says:

      03:42pm | 13/04/11

      Penny Wong only ever says what is written morning spin memo to labor MP’s.
      A real one trick pony. shes hopeless.

    • Rev says:

      03:33pm | 13/04/11

      “China - the world’s largest emitter - is now the world’s largest manufacturer of both solar panels and wind turbines”

      So…are they using them, or just selling them to the West?

    • neil says:

      04:38pm | 13/04/11

      If we are stupid enough to buy into the AGW pseudo-scientific religion China will be happy to make a profit out of us.

    • ZSRenn says:

      11:46am | 14/04/11

      Qatar is the largest emitter not China.

      China is actually very low down on the metric tonnes / capita ratio.

      Lower than Australia.

      This is why I find these comparisons so ridicules.

    • JJ of SC says:

      03:34pm | 13/04/11

      I have reached the point where I cannot believe anything this government says. Sounds like more spin to me!

    • LeftRightOut says:

      08:57pm | 13/04/11

      Gee whiz, it took you some time… the rest of us have been there for ages, now grin

    • Adam says:

      03:36pm | 13/04/11

      “Firstly, Australia is one of the world’s top 20 polluters and we release more pollution per person than any other country in the developed world - more than the US.”

      I wonder if this has anything to do with the fact the US has carbon free nuclear power while we rely on burning coal to get our energy? I note the author made a comment that we are “energy pigs” but perhaps it isn’t the amount of energy we are consuming, but more the manner in which we produce energy.

    • David C says:

      03:59pm | 13/04/11

      it is because we are a small country population wise and we export a vast amount of coal etc. Its a spin statistic with no relevance, the only relevant statistic is carbon dioxide intensity of GDP growth.
      On this he is right, Chian is reducing its intensity, but then so has the rest of the world dramatically over the last century
      Most efficient country in the world on thsi measure? France - why - 85% of its energy is derived from Nuclear Power

    • Adam says:

      04:39pm | 13/04/11

      Cheers David. That makes sense now.

    • Joan says:

      07:13pm | 13/04/11

      David C…. Yep Combet speech totally filled with suspect data.  Labor half truths again

    • Drew says:

      03:37pm | 13/04/11

      “Combet told us we are energy pigs who burn our way through more carbon that even the over-indulgent Americans.”

      That is just because we do not have as many energy efficient - low carbon ghettos and trailer parks the Americans have perfected!

      Did Minister Combet also happen to mention when the compensation packages will be phased out (as they will have to be) and what happens then?

    • Liz says:

      03:47pm | 13/04/11

      Well, that sounded desperate, really desperate, Mr. Combet.
      He was right one thing the Chinese are big on solar, yes they are
      manufacturing millions of panels and selling them to us.

      Just remember this, “there will be no carbon tax…..”  Big fat lies are
      big fat lies.

    • Taking his ball and going home... says:

      03:51pm | 13/04/11

      I realise “The Punch” is an opinion driven website. But every article just seems to have one motivation, polarise the debate into left and right. Keep the comments section driven by party faithfuls and provide no real alternative in perspective to promote further thought.

      A workmate suggested I visit this website for a different kind of debate.

      Big mistake that was, enjoy contributing to the fall in GDP people. (yes I see the hypocrisy)

    • Richard says:

      04:15pm | 13/04/11

      Rubbish. Every single article on this website, and their have been hundreds, has been advocating the government’s position every step of the way. We are yet to seen an article appear on the Punch which advocates for the Coalition’s (vastly superior imo) Direct Action plan.

      Why is that Punch Team? What’s with you guys’ phobia for presenting both sides of the story on this issue?

    • JB says:

      05:10pm | 13/04/11

      Richard there is a VERY good reason there are no articles in support of the coalition “direct action” plan - because it is total BULL! Quite simply, Tony Abbott doesnt believe in climate change and his policy is only meant to be a political fix because all he wants is power. He will do or say anything if it means getting an extra couple of opinion poll points closer to the lodge. The carbon tax is simple, it makes carbon intensive products more expensive, so consumers naturally buy the cheaper, more envirionmetally friendly products. Therefore, companies have an incentive to produce less carbon intensive products so they can compete and emissions will fall. It is simple market logic and astounding that someone who is a part of the Liberal party, who would historically advocate this type of action, is against it.  This shows that Tony Abbott simply cares more about his own future than the country’s.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:15pm | 13/04/11

      JB is absolutely right, how dare Tony Abbott be all about himself, unlike Miss Gillard. I mean she never stabbed Kevin O’Lemon in the back to get power or made deals with the Greens/Independent to be in power, or went against her election promise to please the Greens to stay in power or actually achieve any policy success while in power. Jeez how dare Tony does what he does when he should learn from the shining example of Miss Gillard our great fake PM, who is so above board it isn’t funny. I mean seriously Tony needs to get with the Gillard program after all she has been the champion of great policy these last few years….............

      With the ALP cutting every spending corner to get the budget on track, me thinks this might all be about getting more money from Australians for them to waste.

      But hey we like in a democracy, and we will have an election some time. Faceless men, do what you do best before it is too far gone for your precious ALP….........come on just do it.

    • Richard says:

      06:41pm | 13/04/11

      Yah well needless to say I disagree J.B. The carbon price is an nartificial distortion of the free market and thus is highly incompatible with classical liberal ideology.

      Direct Action is guaranteed to work directly to reduce emissions. All the carbon tax is guaranteed to do is raise revenue for the government (although not enough revenue mind you to honour all the promises Greg Combet has been making willy-nilly recently).

    • Phil says:

      08:03pm | 13/04/11

      It might be synical of me but ever since Pembo started dating a labor minister, The Punch appears to have been terribly biased towards labor.

    • Felipe says:

      09:42am | 14/04/11

      JB, can you just list some carbon neutral and carbon intensive products for everyone to see.  Or are you a labor supporter just mimicking Gillard’s statement on Q&A which are absurd!  She lied in Q&A with her remarks that if she won majority government she would have pressed ahead an emission trading scheme.  Rudd exposed this Gillard lie in that she and Swan wanted to kill the scheme.  And another lie by Gillard about China closing down coal mines every week.  The fact is China is expanding coal based electricity generation.  Once more I say,  labor supporters don’t be weak and follow an atrocious labor government running on lies.

    • JB says:

      05:56pm | 14/04/11

      Felipe, I dont know what products are more or less carbon intensive, and I wont need to. The non carbon intensive products will be cheaper, carbon intesive products more expensive. Therefore, consumers will buy the cheaper, less carbon intensive product.

      Richard, by all means disagree but I think i’ll believe the evidence from economists over you, and they say otherwise.

      And Agaisnt the man, Tony Abbot is the one who promised $1 billion from nowhere in a last ditch desperate attempt at power. Tony Abbott is the one trying to propose a costly innefective policy to solve a problem he doesnt even believe in. Gillard is by no means great or even good, but our system is essentially about alternatives and she is by far the better one.

    • GB says:

      03:51pm | 13/04/11

      I wouldn’t believe a word this glorified union thug told me if a gun was against his head. If he thinks embellishment, omission and flat out bullshit are going to sway us, he better think again.

    • Jim says:

      03:53pm | 13/04/11

      Combet is either an uninformed fool, or a pathological liar. What an appalling future these clowns are heading us into.

    • stevem says:

      04:21pm | 13/04/11

      Can’t he be both?

    • James says:

      03:57pm | 13/04/11

      China is the largest emitter, but more interestingly they are now a larger per capita emitter than France, a first world nation (with lots of nukes).

    • David C says:

      04:09pm | 13/04/11

      Point 1- we will maintain the compensation, I promise. So please tell me why I should believe this promise and not the promise about no carbon tax
      Point 2 - If you are going to compensate people with tax cuts etc why do you think people will switch to low carbon dioxide emmitting products, where is the incentive.
      Point 3 - where are these low carbon emmitting products
      Point 4 - if there are no alternatives then why not help develop alternatives, why an NBN when you could spend the cash in this area.
      Point 5 - if there are no alternatives why not just have a price signal?? ie $2.00 a tonne
      Point 6 - is this the most efficient way? why not a tiny levy say 1cent on electricity or 2-3 cents on petrol   that people wont notice, and then spend the proceeds on alternate energy? the answer is not to make fossil fuels more expensive help make alternates cheaper

    • Andrew says:

      04:47pm | 13/04/11

      Point 1 - Because this will come into effect before the election and since it will be law the only way to get rid of it would be through further legislation.
      Point 2 - Because the price of high emission goods and services will go up more than the alternatives thus giving people a cost incentive to switch in exactly the same way as if they were not compensated.
      Point 3 - Really you have never seen say more energy efficient electrical goods, LPG or electric cars etc. etc. In a lot of cases if you spend a little more up front you can save a lot over the long term and those savings will go up under an ETS.
      Point 4 - Because as most people say the Government is not the best organisation to be attempting to back winner.  Letting the market work out what will and will not work is much more efficient.
      Point 5 - This point doesn’t actually make any sense.
      Point 6 - This is exactly what they are doing except that this way they will also be better taxing corporations which contribute to greenhouse gas emissions instead of just consumers which is what your plan would do.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      05:13pm | 13/04/11

      It is all about wealth redistribution. From those of us who work hard and earn a bit, to the welfare recipients, dole bludgers and other ALP voters.

    • Ben81 says:

      07:26pm | 13/04/11

      You can’t believe anything promised on this because the government still doesn’t even know what the price they’re putting on Carbon Dioxide is yet and how exactly the compensation mechanism will work.  That’s what I heard Greg Combet admit about 30 minutes ago anyway.

      At first, according to Gillard, it was supposed by design to hit people and force them to change the way they live.  That lasted for about 10 minutes before she realised what she’d done and started talking about compensation making the entire thing completely pointless by her own measure and nothing more than a bare faced wealth redistribution scheme.

      Then we get an explanation from her about how supposedly higher carbon emitting products will be more expensive in the supermarket (her description on Q and A) and people would choose the cheaper and supposedly less polluting ones, without explaining exactly how this won’t simply make Australian products more expensive.
      Funny how Tony Jones didn’t push her on that one.

    • Richard says:

      07:29pm | 13/04/11

      @ Andrew
      1. They are either lying or incompetent, because as it stands their numbers do not add up.
      2. People still need to drive their cars to get to work, people still need to turn on their heaters when its minus five outside in winter, people still need to turn on their A/C when its 40 degrees outside in summer. All the carbon tax is going to do is drive these costs up, giving people no choice but to pay through the nose for it. (Except of course the elderly who will not be able to afford it, and will thus die in droves thanks to the Labor/Greens evil ideological stubbornness).
      3. And what about the people who don’t have $20,000 up front to put solar panels on their roofs, who don’t have $5000 up front to convert their car to gas, who don’t have $50,000 up front to buy a hybrid? Yeah, lets just let those poor working families suffer.
      4. The government shouldn’t pick winners and losers: oh, you mean like picking which families are “lower” or “middle” income families (and thus “win” 50% compensation) and picking which families will be right on the cusp and therefore don’t qualify for compensation (‘losers’). Is that the type of “attempting to pick a winner” you were talking about?
      5. Yes, the point makes perfect sense. You look at the ETS they have in Europe or in a few American states: the carbon price per tonne is less than US$2. LESS THAN TWO DOLLARS! This crazy government intends to charge us no less than 10 X that amount, MINIMUM!
      6. No, you are plain wrong on this point. What they intend to do according to Malcolm Farr is spend ALL the money they collect, and half again, on compensation. Where is the money for R&D to make alternative energies cheaper supposed to be coming from?

    • David C says:

      08:39pm | 13/04/11

      so with regards to point 2 you agree the cost increases will be more than the compensation
      Andrew my point about 2,00 is you woudlnt really notice it but corporations would be sent a signal that this is actualy happening and better prepare for the coming increases. I dont agree with the large starting price. 
      Once again my point re small levies is you woulnt really notice it ie the change in petrol from day to day intra week is more anyway. The funds raised would be directly invested in alternates… make alternates cheaper not fossil fuels more expensive

    • David C says:

      08:43pm | 13/04/11

      also re the govt not being great at backing winners, the govt has always had a role to play in technologial innovation. NASA ?? US army???

    • iansand says:

      04:11pm | 13/04/11

      It will be good when there is some rational debate about this.  With the honourable exception of Super D, who has highlighted the dodgy emissions accounting that has always concerned me.  Although that does not mean we should not reduce those emissions for which we are responsible.

    • MarK says:

      04:55pm | 13/04/11

      “It will be good when there is some rational debate about this”

      I agree totally. People answering questions would be a start. People hiding from the issues and being self indulgent have no place in a real debate by adults.

      “With the honourable exception of Super D, who has highlighted the dodgy emissions accounting that has always concerned me.”

      Didn’t concern you in the open thread when pointed out to you though. What is that word starting with h again….ahh hypocrite.

      “Although that does not mean we should not reduce those emissions for which we are responsible. “

      Why?

      What cost is acceptable?

      If we reduce our emission by 5% what will be the cost to the economy under this Labor scheme and how much will global temperatures drop?

      Is it your contention that CO2 is a pollutant?

    • Joe says:

      04:28pm | 13/04/11

      I don’t know where to get the extra money to pay for all the price rises and taxes from all the programs and policies that this Gillard government comes up with. They think we can sweep money from the street. It has just veen anounced in Daily Tele that there will be power price increases again because of the government’s green program. People’s pay cannot cope with all these increases and taxes. I say NO and will never vote for Labor in my whole life.

    • Albrecht says:

      04:30pm | 13/04/11

      But is China the world’s largest manufacturer of both solar panels and wind turbines per capita? What is their ‘solar panel and wind farm’-intensity?

    • Just Sayin' says:

      05:02pm | 13/04/11

      And how much coal are they burning to power their solar panel factories?

    • Tony H says:

      04:30pm | 13/04/11

      I wonder which current Labor MP is going to be sacrificed at the next election so Combet can do a Beasley and switch to a safer seat,  ie one that isn’t full of people involved in the coal industry.

    • Jon says:

      04:31pm | 13/04/11

      I would like to know the definition of middle income earner. I am sure that doesn’t include myself and my wife and I am sure we will end up paying so lower income earners and pensioners can be over compensated. I don’t think it is right for people to be making money off this. For all those who say use less, please tell me how. My family use the minimum now and we cannot afford any alternate energy sources, with solar panels kicking in at approx. $15,000 to wipe out our power bill (5KW system).

    • Eddie says:

      04:32pm | 13/04/11

      This carbon tax works like this.  The government will take $1 from you and is now telling you it will give you back 50c and that you should be thrilled with that!  The other 50c they keep to pay for all the money pits they have created like the NBN.

    • Elphaba says:

      04:41pm | 13/04/11

      And they wonder why we aren’t thrilled… 50%?!  Grrr!

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      05:36pm | 13/04/11

      They won’t be giving me 50 cents. 
       
      They will be taking $1 and giving it to some dole bludging ALP voter so they can put it towards their next carton of Winnie Blues or Woodstock & Cola

    • John says:

      08:39pm | 13/04/11

      I need to correct you on your comment there Tony. Winnie Blues won’t be available. They’ll be non-descript “Olive Greens”.

    • Aussie says:

      11:35pm | 13/04/11

      Daa daa daa daa daa daa made more sense, Eddie.

    • Elphaba says:

      04:37pm | 13/04/11

      Can’t believe that this isn’t going to cost me any money when Gillard said there wouldn’t be a carbon tax in the first place.  Call me cynical and untrusting, but that’s just how it is.  It was a whopping lie, and now I don’t believe anything I hear from them.

      If they thought this was going to work, they’d call an election and get the mandate from the people.  Then if the public voted them back in, I’d take it and stop getting cranky about it.

      And I like David C’s ideas - the tiny levy one in particular.

    • fairsfair says:

      04:47pm | 13/04/11

      I’m bringing back the old Hi5 on this comment Elphaba.

    • Hamish says:

      04:51pm | 13/04/11

      Hey Elphaba, I think the real question is, if these compensation measures are permanent, where is the gov going to get the money to keep them going once the carbon tax reverts to an ETS? Mining tax? Water tax? I’d say the only tax we can certainly rule out is a redhead tax…or maybe a Union membership tax. The ALP pretty much gets that money anyway.

    • Against the Man says:

      04:57pm | 13/04/11

      Yeah, I would love to take this to an election. Lets see what the people want, after all this is a very significant issue. But the ALP/Greens/Independents (wink, wink), all know what would happen if this went to an election. Imagine the NSW election but a far bloodier outcome for the ALP and friends…............

    • Against the Tosser says:

      07:07pm | 13/04/11

      The funny thing is, Against the man that we will be going to an election by mid-late 2013. So anyone disagreeing with the tax will be able to kick out those parties who bring it in. Then the anti-tax party will just repeal the tax and voila! Back to where we are now and people like yourself will be happy. And I’m sure they’re not going to just say “well it’s in now, we’ll just leave it as it is” are they?

    • Elphaba says:

      07:38pm | 13/04/11

      @fairsfair, Hi5! wink

      @Hamish, exactly.  Once it’s a floating (?) price, then what?  How much is it going to cost then?

      @AtM, you’re probably right.  It would be ugly. But if the govt has our best interests at heart and were responsible, they would let the voters have their say.  Instead, we get bent over and screwed.

      I’m sorry, I continually repeat myself on this issue, but I cannot overstate how much this pisses me off.

    • Against the Man says:

      09:55pm | 13/04/11

      @ Against the Tosser, at the next election it isn’t just about the tax, Australians have realised that gilltard and her fake government care ONLY about themselves and that screwing over the Australian people is part of the job. Gilltard has never cared about Australians it has only been about her. Look at her personal life to see what this young lady is all about. The future of Australian, your children and our country is the very least of her concerns, The ALP zombies can deny it but that is the reality, it is all about her count down to June when she collects a
      $600,000 a year pension while Australians everywhere suffer thanks to her incompetence.

    • David C says:

      09:59pm | 13/04/11

      If they take it to an election they will lose. consistently roughly 70% of people say they want the govt to act on climate change. Fair enough. If you ask theM are they willing to pay $100 a year for it they will say yes 70-80% or so
      ask them to pay $800-$1000 and that number drops to about 30%, You can claim all you want about 1/2 the electorate getting compensated but this is where Gillard has shot herself in the foot, Peope wont trust her to do it. That would be a very easy election campaign for the coaltion I would imagine

    • bobw says:

      04:38pm | 13/04/11

      Wow, this one is bringing out the intellectual giants.  First there’s AtM, who still thinks it’s clever to render Gillard “Gilltard” (snicker, snicker).  Well done, AtM - Bruce agrees.  Louisa demonstrates how not to use analogical reasoning with a nonsense post about redheads and pimples.  Jim labels Combet a thug, a rat, a leopard and a meathead, and, deeming such abuse insufficient, leaps back in with a second post in which the Minister also becomes uninformed fool, a pathological liar and a clown.  Keep working on the substantive content side of things Jim - perhaps a third or fourth post is in order?  K gives up on the writing and recommends just looking at the nice pictures.  Sean, JJ and GB sputter on about “lies” and “spin” in a generic manner, demonstrating no understanding of the actual issues.  Of course, there’s the usual tripe from Joan and Rosie, not even worth commenting on.  And so on, and so forth.

      “Australia’s best conversation”?  Pfft.

    • MarK says:

      04:57pm | 13/04/11

      And bobw adds nothing to the topic yet complains about others.

      So bobw, how much will the worlds temperature drop by because of these measures?

      How much will they cost the economy?

    • Just Sayin' says:

      05:07pm | 13/04/11

      And what was the carbon footprint of that ‘empty’ post?

    • JB says:

      05:21pm | 13/04/11

      @MarK
      One day a man was walking along a beach. He noticed the beach was covered with starfish who had washed ashore. As he was walking, he came accross another man, who, as he walked along the beach, was picking up the starfish and throwing them back into the ocean. The first man walked up to second and asked “why are you bothering, there must be thousands of starfish along this beach. you cant save them all, why bother saving them when it dosent matter?” The second man picked up another starfish, and as he threw it into the ocean he said “It matters to this one”.

      Australia cutting its carbon emissions will not save the world, but this does not mean we dont have to play our part. Also, if we did not act while the rest of the world does, our economy would suffer in the long term. I know its hard for people who are such short sighted to understand this but you could at least try.

    • bobw says:

      06:32pm | 13/04/11

      Well, MarK, it’s hard to “add something” when there’s nothing sensible or substantive to respond to.  But my point was that many of the “opponents” of carbon pricing around here show no sign of actually understanding what they claim to oppose.

      Your first question is invalid - a red herring.  The purpose of imposing a carbon price in Australia would not be to achieve some particular measure of “global temperature reduction”, as much as Bolt and other rabble-rousers would like the issue to be reducible to such a simplistic metric.  Only someone with no understanding of climate change science, or the rationale behind mitigation, would demand that action be conditioned on achieving such a reduction.

      Your second question is also invalid, for the painfully obvious reason that too many details of the scheme remain at large for me - or you - to make broad-brush pronouncements as to its likely economic effects.  Even with better information, though, I doubt it would be possible to give a simple answer to a facile question like “How much will [it] cost the economy?”

      Here’s what I suspect will happen now.  You will simply ignore the fact that your initial questions have been easily swatted away, and swamp the thread with a bunch of other questions, which will be tangentially relevant at best, and patently silly at worst.  You will imply that if I fail to answer those questions, it will demonstrate that you are universally right and I am universally wrong.  Basically, you will construct a fictitious debate.  You will probably latch onto something minor and non-substantive that I have said in order to “bolster” your “position”.  Naturally, your post will be lengthy, unfocussed and probably internally inconsistent, making it impossible to “respond” to anyway.  It will also be peppered with gratuitous insults and generally take a sneering, condescending tone.  It will almost certainly accuse me of being some kind of hypocrite, notwithstanding whatever irony that may entail.

      Oh.  Another thing.  It’ll use short sentences.  Lots of short sentences.

      And lots of line breaks.

      And some mad cackling.

      Hahahahaha LAWL.

      Oh dear.

      Am I right, MarK?

    • GB says:

      07:29pm | 13/04/11

      And our resident pompous windbag shows himself. You’re a regular Oscar Wilde aren’t you Bobby boy. In all seriousness, people might start taking you seriously if you didn’t come across as such an arrogant doosh. Sitting behind a computer making smart arse comments and pretending to be the all-knowing authority on every issue doesn’t make it so. Try posting under a different name as your current one has zero credibility.

    • MarK says:

      07:39pm | 13/04/11

      So JB answer the questions.

      As to your analogy - great story, well not really. I dozed off half way through, got to the end and felt nothing.

      It makes no sense.

      In the cuddly world of make believe and Green wet dreams where Unicorns frolic and badgers are nice furry things that make sense it was wonderful.

      Back on earth, in reality, Australia has a few things going for it economically.

      One is cheap energy given the abundance of natural resources we have.

      What you are suggesting is we put a brake on our economy because it is the “right thing to do”.

      I call absolute bullshit. I call shenanigans.

      All this crap to put a hair shirt on and punish ourselves for what?

      Answer the questions.

      What does it cost and what is the benefit given the aim is to reduce AGW. Ergo, how much will the worlds temperature decline as a result of this tax? Does the tax meet its aim?

      Simple stuff JB.

      While we are at it champion tell me

    • MarK says:

      09:41pm | 13/04/11

      “Well, MarK, it’s hard to “add something” when there’s nothing sensible or substantive to respond to.”

      Did you miss the big post that Mal Farr put up. Really.

      Wow.

      “Your first question is invalid - a red herring. “

      No it is not.

      You are not answering it because you refuse to. Because it exposes the complete pointlessness to this tax.

      This tax was designed and brought about to fight AGW. Climate change. Whatever you want to call it. The greatest moral challenge of our time remember bobw? We had days to act before Copenhagen if I recall correctly.

      We have had an endless lecture of CO2 being the bad guy and we need to reduce it to lower the temperature of planet. If this tax is not for that now what is it for?

      Are you seriously telling me that we are reducing CO2 emission and this will not cool the planet?

      Why are we doing it then.

      I totally reject your convenient decision to reclassify the purpose of this tax because you don’t like a question. Man up. Take responsibility and answer it. This intellectual cowardice is really quite astonishing for the side with the “science”. What a laugh it is to see the most basic question and most basic purpose of the tax ducked and weaved.

      HAHAHAHAHA

      LAWL

      Did that help?

      So onto point 2 of your “rebuttal”. Hmm. So even after all the information last year with Rudds scheme you can’t even give me a range knowing what their aiming at as a carbon price.

      Well I am not surprised to be honest.

      It really makes a mockery of the governments claim that families will be better off under the compensation scheme then doesn’t it? Surely you guys have the costs worked out if you know what the compensation will do?

      Or is this another Labor lie?

      Facile? Amazing. Here is bobw calling a simple question on what a tax will cost the economy facile. Is it now your contention that the government has no idea of the economic impact of taxes are and the mere asking of a question like “what’s it cost” is simplistic?

      Truly staggering the hubris you show. That is the point. the tax will cost something to achieve an aim. Well an aim hopefully higher than propping up the budget for the reckless 2013 surplus promise.

      Questions on what economic action cost are now facile. GG bobw. GG.

      “Here’s what I suspect will happen now.  You will simply ignore the fact that your initial questions have been easily swatted away….blah blah blah”

      You have not the wit to suspect anything. Swatted away?....yah. More like cowardly avoided.

      They are simple questions. Answer them. There is nothing fictitious about anything I have said. I have laid the challenge out.

      Simple questions. Answer them.

      Basically all you did was repeat your first post which had nothing at all to do with the subject of Farr’s piece. It was just a whine at the nasty conservatives. All this latest post did was confirm that’s about all you have to contribute.

      Pathetic.

      Try harder son. Waiting for something to actually argue against.

      Oh and still waiting for the questions to be answered. Is this tax is going to achieve any purpose and what is the cost to the reward?

    • bobw says:

      11:06pm | 13/04/11

      GB:  “And our resident pompous windbag shows himself.”

      Been following me around, eh, GB?  Good for you.

      “You’re a regular Oscar Wilde aren’t you Bobby boy.”

      To be fair, I was channelling MarK for part of my post, so if any literary accolades are in order, I insist that he get 50% of the glory.  Let it never be said I don’t give credit where credit is due.

      ” ... an arrogant doosh ...”

      You know what a “doosh” is, right?  See Def No 1:

      http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=doosh

      ” ... all-knowing authority ...”

      Actually, I’m happy to admit the limits of my knowledge.  See above where I declare myself unqualified to guess at the economic effects of an (unknown) carbon price, for example.  I’ve said it before, but a carbon pricing scheme could be designed well, or it could be designed poorly.  The people you really want to worry about are the clairvoyants who claim to “know” that a nonexistent regime will have catastrophic effects.  They’re the real crazies.

      “... zero credibility ...”

      That’s a laugh, coming from Mr Substance himself.  I see two posts from you on this thread.  The first comprises an ad hom attack on Combet, and the second ad hom attack on me.  Magic stuff.

    • bobw says:

      11:07pm | 13/04/11

      Oh, MarK.  How is it possible to be so confused, and yet so predictable?  I mean, I know I supplied the blueprint for your response, but I hardly expected you to follow it quite so exactly.

    • N. Kelly says:

      11:43pm | 13/04/11

      And then the toxic bore channels Bolt, as usual.

    • B says:

      06:16am | 14/04/11

      bobw

      You can try and sound smart with your words, but you show your ignorance, arrogance and utter contempt for other people VERY openly.  I would be suprised if anyone actually listens to you.  Your so patronizing.  Its just silly to believe in Fantasy and Faries at the bottom of the Garden, which is what AGW is!!  A Fantasy!!!

    • MarK says:

      08:36am | 14/04/11

      Well another coward exposed.

      bobw starts with a whine and ends with a whine and in the middle fails to answer the pertinent questions.

      The simple questions.

      So typical. All this “science” backing them up and yet basic questions cannot be answered.

      I guess this is wjat you get when you have religious zealotry as the basis for your argument. The disciples have faith hence so should we. It is the only message I can get from this.

      ““Australia’s best conversation”?  Pfft. “

      The only correct thing it wrote. Ho

      can you possibly have a conversation when the other side will not answer the questions.

      At least we are at the end game of the greatest moral challenge of our time and it has been exposed as a wealth redistribution scheme backed by lies and no facts.

      Toxic bore eh N? Well I guess I am a carbon based lifeform so in your religious world I would be toxic. ucwatididthar?

    • bobw says:

      09:38am | 14/04/11

      @B:  Ah, here comes the cavalry - and on an improbably high horse, no less.  You wound me, B.  Really, you do.  But guess what?  I now see that AGW is a “Fantasy”.  You have convinced me!  How, you might ask?  Why, only by the irresistible power of your logical reasoning!  Oh… except that your post didn’t actually contain any reasoning.  Except that it consisted exclusively of personal attacks and bare claims about fairies and gardens.

      You gotta love the “anti-warmist” brigade.  You make a post pointing out that Combet’s critics in this thread seem almost wholly reliant on personal attacks and unsusbstantiated assertions, and they respond with… more personal attacks and unsubstantiated assertions.  At least MarK pretends to attempt to engage with the issues, even if his Boltastic tunnel vision makes it impossible for him to process the idea that his inquiries might be misdirected.

      @MarK:  Still fulminating, eh?  Don’t worry.  The “thousand monkeys, thousand typewriters” principle will surely kick in at some stage.

    • MarK says:

      10:13am | 14/04/11

      “@MarK:  Still fulminating, eh?  Don’t worry.  The “thousand monkeys, thousand typewriters” principle will surely kick in at some stage. “

      A last line of defence by the intellectually vapid and fact challenged.

      Love your work bobw.

      Make sure you buzz me when you some contribution to the actual debate.

      In the meantime I quote someone you probably think is real smart and stuff.

      “Wow, this one is bringing out the intellectual giants.”

      and my personal favourite

      “Keep working on the substantive content side of things”


      Champion work….the questions still remain unanswered.

    • bobw says:

      12:43pm | 14/04/11

      Ah, MarK:  The Black Knight of The Punch.

      “Whaddya mean my questions are invalid?  It’s only a flesh wound!  I’m invincible!  Go on, answer my questions, dammit!  They’re really good questions.  No, they really are.  Chicken, chicken!  Come back, I’ll bite your legs off!”

    • MarK says:

      01:20pm | 14/04/11

      Seeing bobw flailing away now is kind of sad.

      The questions remain unanswered bobw.

      Feel free at anytime to fill us in. In the meantime I will wait patiently. Wish there were more adults around to talk to.

      The cowards way out of a unarguable position.

      Note well everyone that bobw has not contributed anything to the climate debate.

      Sad but predictable.

    • bobw says:

      01:37pm | 14/04/11

      [The armless, legless Black Knight continues to rage away, oblivious to the fact that his adversaries (and the film crew) have long since left].

      “Cowards!  Come back here and take what’s coming to you!  The Black Knight always triumphs!  Answer my questions!  Debate?!  I am the debate!”

    • JB says:

      06:15pm | 14/04/11

      The story is an old Christian yarn about basic humanity MarK, but if you found it too difficult, i’ll endeavour to take future analogies from children’s books, just for you. As for your first question, i’ll refer you to bobw’s answer. As for the second: If we dont act our economy will suffer in the long term as we get left behind by the rest of the world. Acting now insures our economy, The tax means we pay our part, our economy is ready and it also gives us authority to put pressure on other nations to act. This is a global issue and it requires global action, not sooks who throw up their arms and say “its all to hard”

    • MarK says:

      01:16am | 15/04/11

      ”  JB says:”

      Kudos for having a go son. You are showing more guts than bobw and his ilk. I answered your other query re wind farms below too.

        “The story is an old Christian yarn about basic humanity MarK, but if you found it too difficult, i’ll endeavour to take future analogies from children’s books, just for you.”

      I didn’t find it too difficult. I found it boring as hell and totally pointless. I would have collected the starfish and worked out a way to sell them to some fool for a profit if I did anything. I think your hero is an idiot.

      ” As for your first question, i’ll refer you to bobw’s answer.”

      See now you let yourself down because you are following the cowards route. The point of the carbon tax is to cool the planet. That is what we are afraid of rememebr? AGW….greatest moral challenge of our time….days to act pre Copenhagen. Hell you even give the game away later in your answer when you say the tax means we play our part.

      Our part in what if it not to reduce the temperature of the globe?

      Hell one of the high priests of this religion, that joker Hamilton, recently whined over the money grubbing Australian public that seemed to be not that keen on AGW action any more - while the planet “cooked” I think his words were. So what is it for then again?

      bobw’s answer was meaningless and self serving because he like you does not want to face the truth that the tax will not do what it meant for.


      “As for the second: If we dont act our economy will suffer in the long term as we get left behind by the rest of the world.”

      Left behind who exactly? Left behind what? This is a meaningless and untruthful statement. When the tax will not cool the planet you and Labor make stuff up in an attempt to justify it.

      ” Acting now insures our economy, The tax means we pay our part, our economy is ready and it also gives us authority to put pressure on other nations to act.”

      We tried that getting others to act at Copenhagen remember. We had days to act or the planet was doomed. Seems that was a bit of hyperBOWL. I am still waiting for the rapture.

      How does taking the cheap energy we enjoy at the moment and artificially make it more expensive insure our economy? Cheap energy is part of the reason we are competitive and lemmings like yourself want to hobble us. Think about what this is doing. It is making a basic input into the vast majority of goods and services we produce more expensive. And you argument is insuring our economy. Think about how stupid that sounds. It is a contradiction in terms.

      Playing our part sure sounds great but word to wise kid. It means you a idiot if you do it in the global sphere. Economic suicide is not required to prove a point.

      ” This is a global issue and it requires global action, not sooks who throw up their arms and say “its all to hard”

      It is not too hard. It is pointless. It will not make a difference and we will damn ourselves for no reason. Look at the spin and lies Combet is forced to spew to sell it.

      Only one caught in a religious fervour can not see this for the sham it is.

    • B says:

      01:56am | 15/04/11

      bobw I was actually making a point about you.  You try and sound so smart about this without any evidence to back it up.

      YOUR the one who wants to change everything.  YOU provided the EVIDENCE to support YOUR SIDE.  I dont have to supply any evidence since I’m not trying to convince anyone.

      Get off your moral high horse and join the rest of the greenies in the loser bin.  Because mate, you have lost this debate!!

    • bobw says:

      02:56pm | 15/04/11

      B:  “I was actually making a point about you ... I dont have to supply any evidence since I’m not trying to convince anyone.”

      Right, so all that stuff about “AGW” being a “Fantasy” was simply window-dressing for your impeccable, evidence-based character analysis, was it?  No substantive claim there?  No completely-unfounded-yet-still-emphatically-expressed substantive claim?

      “YOUR the one who wants to change everything.  YOU provided the EVIDENCE to support YOUR SIDE.”

      Not sure what you’re actually talking about here, ol’ buddy.  I provided the evidence?  Good for me, I guess.  Reading between the lines, I suppose what you’re saying is that I have some kind of responsibility to justify the idea that we should take action to mitigate the effects of climate change.  Unfortunately for you, that idea represents the mainstream of scientific and political opinion.  Disagreement as to what action should be taken?  Sure.  But serious disagreement over the existence of a problem demanding action per se?  Nope.  Y’know – “Climate change happens, mankind does make a contribution” and all that jazz.  If you think you can shatter the consensus by rolling out some kind of “AGW is bogus” theory, then “YOUR” the one who’ll be wanting to supply evidence, my friend.

      “... join the rest of the greenies in the loser bin ...”

      Ha ha ha.  Takes me back to Year 3, that one.  “Get in the loser bin, ya big… ya big…  LOSER!”.  LOL.

      “Because mate, you have lost this debate!!”

      Which debate is that?  The “debate” about “YOU” (ie ME)?  The “debate” about whether or not “AGW” is a “Fantasy”?  The debate about horses, fairies and the rightful occupants of the “loser bin”?  So many excellent debates, B.  Please be more specific.

    • bobw says:

      03:02pm | 15/04/11

      MarK:  “The point of the carbon tax is to cool the planet.”

      On the off chance that someone is still listening to ol’ limbless over there, I feel obliged to point out - again - that this is pure misrepresentation.  Anyone who knows anything about the English language would know that “mitigation” (to which either carbon pricing or “direct action” would be directed) means something different to “reversal”.  Anyone who knows anything about climate change science would know that:  (a) the patterns of cause and effect associated with climate change, and the timescales involved, mean that mitigating action taken now would not be intended to “zero” the equation, but rather to reduce the severity of climate change impacts in the longer term; and (b) the issue isn’t reducible to some blunt measure of “global average temperature” anyway.  Finally, anyone who knows anything about blustering, wilfully ignorant trollery would recognise an inveterate practitioner in the form of MarK.

      On a related matter, it’s mildly amusing that MarK has done everything I predicted in my post of 6:32pm on Wednesday.  Ignore answers to questions?  Check.  Ask more questions in attempt to proliferate and confuse issues?  Check.  Torrents of personal abuse?  Check.  Accusations of hypocrisy?  Check.  Condescension?  Check.  Hectoring tone?  Check.  I only forgot to mention that he’d go on and on with the same old soundbite-y schtick as though sheer force of repetition would give it an appearance of validity.  More to come?  Almost certainly.

    • Jay Santos says:

      05:01pm | 13/04/11

      Julia said she would return 100% of the tax revenue to the people.

      She also said that 10% of the revenue raised would go to the UN.

      Combet is a similar mathematical genius.

      Here’s an idea: let’s punish Australia’s suburban energy pigs by giving them MORE money in their kick to buy MORE plasma’s and get Gerry off our back.

      Overcompensating on an unnecessary tax impost they themselves will introduce is the single most delusory stupid idea since since braille signs were put on stucco buildings.

      And let’s not even start on the Ministry for Air bureacracy that will be created to implement, regulate and enforce compliance to this farce.

      How often will we have to fill in our compensation claims Greg?

      Should I start keeping any receipts?

      The robotic rhetoric and talking point spin is as trite as much as it is built on a foundation of lies.

      Worse still, as a denier himself, Combet knows this to be true.

      A few more untruths from the the Australian Liars Party:

      Even if China mandates 20% of its energy come from so-called renewables, that means 80% will still come from fossil-fuels.  Think about that as their population pushes towards 2 billion.

      India’s coal levy is less that $1 per tonne and as yet no-one has seen one sent of this ‘tax’ revenue.

      The EU emmissions trading scheme has collapsed into a corrupted mess that no-one wants to take resposibility for let alone reinstate.

      Businesses will pass on any cost increases to their customers.  I know I will.  I’ll also have to consider shedding staff to cover any increases in my energy and materials costs.

      Australians have been conned over a barely disguised wealth re-distribution scheme (spun = tax cut) that, according to Bovver-Boy Combet, will be ‘permanent’.  And one that will see the middle class largely pay the bill for everyone…how equitable.

      Too bad Malcolm and his fellow hacks in the CPG are too gutless to press this government on their gratuitous spin and lies.

      But I guess it must be hard to kill the messenger when its you.

    • jb says:

      05:01pm | 13/04/11

      Well Juliar the mugger there are only 7 continents so that would make us the least polluting continent right? you freaking scaremongering pathetic excuse for a statesman…

    • JB says:

      05:14pm | 13/04/11

      I think Antarctica might have something to say about that…..

    • Its Time for the Truth says:

      05:02pm | 13/04/11

      Oh yes, those huge chimnies are belching out that much CO2, if we don’t tax it we will be doomed! Carbon dioxide cannot be seen but most people don’t realise this nor do they seem to care. Black smoke is not CO2, but the media aren’t prepared to say that. They are as ignorant as Combet and his cohorts.

      And as they keep saying wind towers are the future. Well they aren’t. It’s time this mob got their heads around the entire issue, learned the truth and stopped trying to BS us. It’s not a race to see who introduces a carbon tax first, it should be about ‘is it the way to go’?

    • JB says:

      05:13pm | 13/04/11

      “And as they keep saying wind towers are the future. Well they aren’t. “

      Solid argument there, really, good work, very mature

    • MarK says:

      09:54pm | 13/04/11

      JB it wasn’t an argument.

      It was a statement of fact.

      As such it is perfectly valid.

    • JB says:

      06:01pm | 14/04/11

      This coming from someone who has consistently argued that posters should back up their coments with evidence, or does that only apply for those who you disagree with MarK?

    • stephen says:

      05:03pm | 13/04/11

      Labor should make Nuclear Power part of its Policy.
      Then perhaps make its Carbon Tax apply at a decreasing rate over time, until alternative energy forms are implemented. Including Nuclear.
      The Coalition will trump Jules if A. Wilkie jumps ship, (and isn’t it odd how suddenly loyalty, exemplified by these Independents, which is such a manly quality only subservient to enthusiasm, is now considered almost a burden ?) to force an election.
      Labor should pre-empt.

    • Holly says:

      05:18pm | 13/04/11

      Sorry Malcolm, maybe you thought you might get an intelligent discussion here, but obviously not.  I thought Combet was pretty impressive - his explanation was clear and concise.  Quite frankly these commenters can get as hysterical as they like but the government is meanwhile just doing its job - holding discussions and negotiating with stakeholders to develop the final form of the legislation.  Unfortunately the coalition has completely lost the plot.  Tony Abbott claims climate change is real but most of his followers are “deniers” and are not even aware that he has a policy that will see the taxpayers out of pocket and will be ineffective.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      05:38pm | 13/04/11

      You might get an intelligent discussion if they stopped LYING to us.

    • Horthy says:

      06:54pm | 13/04/11

      “stakeholders”.


      ROFL.

    • Enrico says:

      10:52pm | 13/04/11

      Poor, delusional Holly.  The young are so easy to deceive.  No wonder we got the Kruddsta and Juliar.

    • B says:

      10:52pm | 14/04/11

      “Deniers”?  What are you?  A member of the church of climatology?

    • Flossie says:

      05:34pm | 13/04/11

      The Government is going to tax the big carbon emitters - they will then put up their prices and pass the increases on to us - we (if we are “families and low income households) will be compensated for the extra cost. Where in all this round robin tax and compensation payments is the encouragement to the big carbon emitters to reduce their emissions?  Why should they - they are OK and any left over tax is going into a large barrel of pork for the Government to access for the 2013 election.

    • Gary says:

      05:43pm | 13/04/11

      One volcano in Indonesia Japan or the Philippines blowing its top puts more pollution into the atmosphere than Australia USA China and India would put there in a lifetime.
      For example, the large explosive eruption of Mount Pinatubo alone on 15 June 1991 expelled 3-5 km3 of dacite magma and injected about 20 million metric tons of SO2 into the stratosphere. The sulfur aerosols resulted in a 0.5-0.6°C cooling of the Earth’s surface in the Northern Hemisphere. Measurements from recent eruptions such as Mount St. Helens, Washington (1980), El Chichon, Mexico (1982), and Mount Pinatubo, Philippines (1991), clearly show the importance of sulfur aerosols in modifying climate, warming the stratosphere, and cooling the troposphere. Research has also shown that the liquid drops of sulfuric acid promote the destruction of the Earth’s ozone layer.

    • Earl says:

      05:54pm | 13/04/11

      The carbon tax is just income redistribution, based on the idea of collecting income from the ‘rich’, ‘middle class’ and ‘big polluters’. If most of the money is then spent on compensation, where is the carbon reduction coming from?

      If the government really needs money so much, why dont they just raise company taxes to 40% and the highest tax rate to 60%. That way, you would get at least a 50% reduction in carbon pollution, because there will not be any consumers or production in the country any more.

    • Norma says:

      06:01pm | 13/04/11

      The alternatives are much more expensive than coal.  And there are setup costs to make the switch.  So, those low-carbon thingys, if they will exist at all will never be cheaper.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:18pm | 13/04/11

      Where is Seano? Is he teaching night school?

    • Luke says:

      06:40pm | 13/04/11

      So can anyone going to explain where these green jobs are going to come from how much they will pay will it cover enough for super or is a green job going on the dole and smoken weed…

    • eye4aneye says:

      06:46pm | 13/04/11

      Looks more like widening the tax base and wealth re-distribution to me.

      Make/keep most of the people poor and dependant on the government drip feed them enough handouts whilst taking away any incentive to better themselves (via slugging those who do) and thus escape government dependancy…..yeah that should keep enough voters.

    • Richard says:

      06:51pm | 13/04/11

      I’m sorry, but I seem to be unaware of the new laws of mathematics that this government has apparently decreed to be in effect.

      Else how do they intend to “provide industry assistance of 94.5%”, while at the same time claiming that “more than 50% of the carbon price revenue will be used to assist households”.

      Unless I’m very much mistaken, that equals more than 144.5% of the total revenue raised from the carbon tax is ear-marked to be paid out in various forms of compensation to industry and households.

      Riiight.

      But hang on though, wasn’t some of the carbon tax revenue also supposed to be channeled into R&D for alternative energy development?

      And isn’t this government supposed to be filling in their gigantic budget deficit by this time next year somehow?

      There is a very big black hole in these numbers, and its not adding up at all.

      How stupid do you think we are Minister?

    • Dr B S Goh says:

      09:25pm | 13/04/11

      @ Richard.

      To Add: The ALP Govt already signed an Agreement last year in Mexico to give 10% of carbon tax collected to some UN Body which is suppose to help poor countries.  I bet 80% of that will be dissipated by UN Officials.

      Add another 20% of tax collected to be dissipated by Admin costs. Wow the PM and Minister Combet must be real Maths geniuses.

    • James D says:

      07:02pm | 13/04/11

      Labor keeps parroting that this is a market-based approach expected to limit carbon emissions, but they have yet to convince anyone that the tax will result in reduced carbon dioxide. If polluters are able to pass through the costs of the tax to consumers what possible incentive is there for them to move to lower carbon alternatives ? What real competition here in Australia is going to motivate the producers to seek an advantage over their competitors ?  And what alternatives are there that compete with coal power even with the added cost of the tax ?

    • Blink says:

      07:17pm | 13/04/11

      Malcolm Farr - Labor mouthpiece.

    • Dash says:

      08:10am | 14/04/11

      Absolutely. ALP lapdog!

    • Wayne says:

      08:02pm | 13/04/11

      This tax is nothing more than a wealth redistribution by stealth based on the lie about being no carbon tax under a Dillard government. We need to move from fossil fuels to alternatives, but there are no viable alternatives yet. Solar uses silver and other rare elements which will be quickly exhausted if an attempted large scale roll out occurs. Wind power uses rare earth magnet materials that are also limited in supply, the same for electric cars. A recent scientific article said we cannot interfere too much with the wind as it will upset the climate, as turbines take energy from the wind which means it reduces the ability to circulate moisture and heat ie rainfall and climate. We cannot power tractors for agriculture from solar panels. We also need back up base load supplies so we in effect need to have maybe 4 times the generating capacity required eg if the weather is overcast for days and wind is slight for days, and that will cost us much more. The sun doesn’t shine at night either. I’m not aware of any viable hot rocks power generation, there is in NZ where there is volcanic activity, but that is not the same as hot rocks. How much will this tax reduce temperature (Nil) how much will the sea level not rise (Nil) Will it save the barrier reef (No)

    • Ryan says:

      08:22pm | 13/04/11

      This is not about Green jobs, saving the planet or reducing carbon emissions, this is all about socialist redistribution of wealth and taxing Australian businesses into submission so they hand over to the new communist government of Gillard. Raise your left hand up to the sky to salute comrade Gillard.

    • So what's the price? says:

      08:32pm | 13/04/11

      What I found curious is how the Government can get into so much detail on how much, precisely, a Carbon Tax will add to the cost of Steel and yet they:
      a) Can’t tell us at what price the Carbon Tax will be set.
      b) Can’t tell us how much compensation we’ll actually get.

      How can you say no-one will be worse off when you don’t even have the details? Yet how can you get so specific on the price of Steel without having the details?

    • Louisa says:

      09:59pm | 13/04/11

      It all depends which version of Julia we have tomorrow.

      Gosh, she is a nasty person. 

      BTW Comet and Gillard should be reading from the same page - and they have each given different versions today

    • Bruce says:

      10:05pm | 13/04/11

      Could you imagine Combet’s ‘Carbon Tax’ plan being presented to a financial institution for financial assessment. He would be laughed out of the office and told to come back when you have actually done some work on the proposal.

    • Mark says:

      11:01pm | 13/04/11

      No she’s not, Louisa….

      They were both saying the same today…..it was just you that was hearing different things….....

    • toady says:

      08:42pm | 13/04/11

      As a result of these lying scumbags in government at the moment, and being a person who is not eligible for assistance from them, even though most of my income goes on weekly expenditure, I have made the following decisions:

      I won’t donate to charities anymore.  Let them lobby the government for more money.  I can’t afford it.  If you need help from a charity and they can’t help you, go to parliament house and chain yourself to a ladder.

      I won’t donate to disaster relief programs anymore.  Let the bastards bring in a levy.

      I will adopt a f*** you jack policy in future.  Apart from my family, no-one gives a rats arse about me.

      Stick your hybrid cars, your solar panels, your special light globes, your public transport.  The money I don’t donate to charity will be used to pay for the electricity I choose to consume.

      Over two thirds of all Australians receive some form of welfare from the government.  I’m in the one third that doesn’t.  I’m tired of going to work and earning money so that these government thieves can take it off me and hand it out to welfare thieves.

      If you support a carbon dioxide tax, either you are bloodsucking welfare leech, a member of the Labor Party, or are brainwashed greens voter. I think bobw and JB are first rate tossers.

    • Richard says:

      09:15pm | 13/04/11

      Hi today, your post is very vehement, but in many ways valid, and it makes me want to share something with you that was written today by Dan Denning in ‘The Daily Reckoning’. I think it is very pertinent to your situation:

      “—Mind you the free market isn’t perfect. We were simply pointing out the best system for creating prosperity is based on economic and political liberty. It doesn’t mean there are no regulations. But it does mean that you have to value individual liberty above an abstract idea of collective fairness.”

      “—We suspect this is what some people find so objectionable to the libertarian idea. It seems selfish, like you’re more concerned over your right to be free than the guy out of a job down the street whose down on his luck and could use some help. And after all, no one likes to hang out with self-centred, egotistical tightwads who are only interested in their net worth.”

      “—Now we can’t speak for all libertarians. No one can. But we’d say that placing liberty as the most important value in a political system doesn’t exclude falling in love, being a good neighbour, liking puppies and sunsets, or having moral obligations to other people in the world.  Life (for most people) is about more than getting rich or being free. It’s what you do with your freedom that counts.”

      “—Yet the growth of government encourages people to subcontract their moral obligations to one another via taxation. You pay your taxes therefore you don’t have to worry about caring for the sick, the poor, the elderly, or the education of your children. That’s what government is for. This has led to “mission creep” by government in the form of numerous wars (on terrorism, on fat, on smoking, on drugs, on illiteracy, on poverty). The cost is high and the victories are few.”

      “—Placing liberty as the highest value in your political and economic order (followed closely by private property) doesn’t mean other things in life don’t matter. It means that only when people are free from material wants (being hungry, cold, and homeless) can they begin to have other, qualitative ambitions in life. We should recognise that some ideas make it possible to lift people from poverty while others almost certainly assure that we’ll all be poor together.”

      http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/supply-destruction-in-the-oil-market/2011/04/13/

    • bobw says:

      11:12pm | 13/04/11

      toady:  “I think bobw and JB are first rate tossers.”

      Aw, toady, you mean my love for you is unrequited?  Say it ain’t so!  There goes my plan to save you from a life of tragic misanthropy by taking your hand in marriage.

    • Jason says:

      10:51am | 14/04/11

      I run my own small business, employing 4 people. Have never touched the welfare. Am not a member of the Labor Party and havent woken up brainwashed by a green.

      But I support a carbon tax. Why?

      I’ve found over the years that in order to run an effective business you must employ a great deal of common sense.
      Burning a limited resource that polutes the atmosphere until it runs out is not common sense. I run my compressors and a number of other machines off solar power because it’s free, it’s smart business. When panels become cheaper still I will look at running more equipment off the sun. Which in turn will give me the savings opportunity to employ another person.

      Toady mate, maybe you should go have a little lay down….

    • Sony B Goode says:

      11:51am | 14/04/11

      @jason you are clearly not in business because solar power is not free. When you amortise the cost of solar againt the price of electricity the payback period for any substantial use of electricity is over a decade. thats assuming your panels and inverters last that long.  Unless the price of electricity triples or more, then solar is not justifiable. but wait… labor seems to be scheming to triple the price of electricity….

    • Richard says:

      12:39pm | 14/04/11

      Jason, like Sonny B Goode says, you are clearly a troll planted to say that you’re a small business person when in fact I all but guarantee you’re a political staffer. But anyway, your points are wrong: you just assume that the carbon tax is going to make solar panel cheaper, but in fact it will have the opposite effect.

      A major component of PV solar panels is silver. If the demand for solar panels picks up, the price of silver, which has already more than doubled in the last year, will shoot to the moon, causing the cost of solar panels to INCREASE, not decrease.

      The carbon tax is bad policy, its bad for business, and its bad for households. Minister Combet, please make the announcement immediately that the government has decided to do the sensible thing and scrap the stupid scheme once and for all.

    • JB says:

      06:04pm | 14/04/11

      The feeling is mutual Toady. And if you dont receive welfare, theres a reason for that so excuse me if I take your claims of poverty with a grain of salt.

    • Jason says:

      03:18pm | 18/04/11

      Troll? Sorry but no. Im not someones political puppet either.
      The solar panels were free for my business as I purchased them through a government grant issued to help green the textile sector in this country. My panels have a 25 year waranty and I hate to be the one to have to imform you, but, the power from the sun is free…...

      But hey, stay angry and do nothing. Luckily there are others out there with innovation to make a difference.

    • Enrico says:

      08:53pm | 13/04/11

      Greg Combet:  The Labor Party’s minister for propaganda.

    • The emperor has no clothes says:

      09:46pm | 13/04/11

      Sorry to crash the party, but did anyone notice that global average temperatures fell in March 2011 and they are now at back to same level they were 30 years ago ?

      http://www.drroyspencer.com/latest-global-temperatures/

      But the Government tells me its warming, so it must be, and I certainly don’t wish to be called a “denier”.

    • Sony B Goode says:

      10:16pm | 13/04/11

      Let’s put this in perspective, even with a bigger price of $80 for CO2. Global temperature will not drop a single degree for up to a thousand years. At best it will prevent some extra rises if they exist. And that’s a big “if”. Our best prediction on weather can barely see a week into the future and yet “modeling” 50 years down the track is accurately predicting catastrophe.  Sure of course.
      Myhrvold’s idea lab came up with a cheap (in the hundreds of millions) solution which requires no tax. These and every other solution have been ignored by all leftist governments. Why?
      The underlying reality is simple, leftist governments see this as a clear opportunity to tax everything and everyone. This tax is expandable to every industry and every person with I suspect no change in wording to legislation.
      It pushes the leftists agenda of prosperity retardation and destruction on a scale that cannot be bettered by anything short of all-out war. It’s a progressives wet dream because it hits the most important industries hardest and the nerve system of the economy, power generation.
      “green” energy is substantially more expensive then coal based generation. Shifting petrol based transport to electric will simply put greater load on coal power stations. There currently are no cost effective “green” power generation solutions, other than nuclear. Hit the electric companies with a tax that is greater than some of their profits and prices will more than double.
      Notice how combet did not say anything about what electricity will cost under such a scheme.
      How will consumers choose alternatives where none are present?
      Even with government subsidising 75% of a 1.5kw solar system the payback is barely justifiable and it makes virtually no difference to the average monthly electricity cost.
      Vilifying CO2 as a pollutant is poor marketing. Every living animal including people breath out CO2 and all plants need it for survival. It is an essential element of the biosphere not a pollutant. The planet has been dramatically hotter in the past and we survived.
      Power sell off now makes a lot of sense given leftists where going to bring in a tax on CO2 generation. Sell off the power companies, hit them with a massive tax, give some money to the “poor” to win back labors lost support base and make anyone above a casual wage pay to bootstrap the economy into jobs for greenies.
      Unless china stops using coal overnight , jobs for greenies is all the tax will achieve.

    • Mark says:

      10:17pm | 13/04/11

      The level of ignorance on this site is astounding…....the vast majority of comments show that the posters have not bothered to learn anything about the proposed carbon reduction scheme and it’s ramifications for the economic prosperity of this country.

      Many don’t even realise (or wilfully chose to ignore) that it’s the polluters who will be paying the carbon tax…...... and that 50%+ of revenue collected will be passed onto low and middle income families to offset cost of living effects. Really very simple.

      Stop spreading dis-information and get some knowledge of the facts before commenting…....

    • TimB says:

      10:53pm | 13/04/11

      If the polluters are paying the tax, why do low & middle income families need to be compensated?

      Think carefully now.

    • MarK says:

      10:59pm | 13/04/11

      “Many don’t even realise (or wilfully chose to ignore) that it’s the polluters who will be paying the carbon tax”

      ROFLMAO

      “and that 50%+ of revenue collected will be passed onto low and middle income families to offset cost of living effects.”

      Awww isn’t that sweet.

      they mug us with a baseball bat and offer us an aspirin.

      How positively sweet.

      And you believe this. This is not a “there will be no carbon tax under the government I lead” lie is it?

      Well since you have all the answers tell me this. How much will this tax cost the economy? What reduction in temperature can we expect to see?

      Simple stuff.

    • Ben81 says:

      11:22pm | 13/04/11

      Here’s a fact for you - redistributing wealth won’t change the weather.
      And nobody here’s claiming it’s a personal tax so don’t put words in peoples mouths.

    • Mark says:

      10:20pm | 13/04/11

      Ps: Malcolm….. in future just tell us what is said…. we can make up our own minds what was meant.

    • adnor says:

      11:18pm | 13/04/11

      This Gov sounds defeated already ?.... or ! is it a clever form of subterfuge !?!
      “But at the End of the Day”  you just cant underestimate there in competence either !?!

    • MarK says:

      11:23pm | 13/04/11

      “Just as the 1980s reforms laid down the bedrock of our current prosperity, pricing carbon will ensure that the Australian economy of the 21st century remains globally competitive. Critical to understanding the national interest case for taking action on climate change is an acknowledgement that long term reform should also be based on the principle of intergenerational equity.”

      Total insanity

      We take our main competitive advantage being cheap energy and make it more expensive. Two problems - the clean base load doesn’t exist.

      Secondly how do you make yourself more competitive by artificially making the inputs you use more expensive?

      Can anybody explain this to me? Maybe bobw or ian would like to answer these questions.

      This whole wealth redistribution scheme is laughable.

      How long before the carbon price goes up which it has to?

      Any bets?

      And not one iota of difference will be made to the temperature of the planet.

    • N. Kelly says:

      11:56pm | 13/04/11

      “And not one iota of difference will be made to the temperature of the planet.”

      Really ? You reckon the planet’s temperature is never going to change from now on, regardless of what we do or don’t do ?

    • MarK says:

      08:06am | 14/04/11

      Hi N.

      Of course not. You have taken a statement of fact that is indisputable and tried to make it something it is not.

      The climate changes all the time. The temperature of the planet fluctuates all the time.

      We have ice ages at one extreme. We have warm periods such as the medieval warm period at the other.

      All natural.

      What Australia does vis a carbon tax will in no way ever change that or have a particular effect on the global temperature at any point in time.

      If you believe you have contradictory evidence feel free to answer the basic question of how much the globe will cool because of the carbon tax and how much that will cost us.

    • N. Kelly says:

      09:15am | 14/04/11

      “And not one iota of difference will be made to the temperature of the planet.”

      “What Australia does vis a carbon tax will in no way ever change that or have a particular effect on the global temperature at any point in time.”

      Amazing. Thanks for that confirmation, laughable as it is.

    • MarK says:

      09:50am | 14/04/11

      “Amazing. Thanks for that confirmation, laughable as it is.”

      Well Ms Kelly please enlighten us as to what effect on global temperature the carbon tax will have.

      Don’t be shy. Dazzle us with your brilliance.

      Amaze me with your science. You obviously believe we will have an effect.

      Tell us what this tax will do and how much will it cost.

      You can can’t you? Hmmmmmmm?

    • N. Kelly says:

      11:10am | 14/04/11

      “You reckon the planet’s temperature is never going to change from now on, regardless of what we do or don’t do ? “

      MarK says: 08:06am | 14/04/11   “Of course not.”

      So, how much will it change, and how much will we save ?

      You can, can’t you ?

    • MarK says:

      01:16pm | 14/04/11

      ”  N. Kelly says:

        11:10am | 14/04/11

        “You reckon the planet’s temperature is never going to change from now on, regardless of what we do or don’t do ? “

        MarK says: 08:06am | 14/04/11   “Of course not.”

        So, how much will it change, and how much will we save ?

        You can, can’t you ?”

      Ahhh I see what we have here.

      We have a person that lacks reading comprehension and cherry picks lines to make stuff up.

      Quote my whole post from 8.06 then if you are brave enough and answer the questions.

      You are in the pathetic category already and slipping lower.

      Hurry and catch up before you make a complete fool of yourself.

    • TimB says:

      01:58pm | 14/04/11

      N.Kelly are you AASQ in disguise?

      I sense the same brand of moron ass-backwards logic being used here.

    • N. Kelly says:

      02:08pm | 14/04/11

      How much will it change, and how much will we save ?

    • MarK says:

      02:36pm | 14/04/11

      I can actually answer his question Tim.

      If we don’t bring in the carbon tax the worlds temperature will remain exactly same as it would have been anyway.

      The cost to Australia for this will be nothing.

      Now Ms Kelly how much will the worlds temperature under the carbon tax and what will be the cost to Australia?

    • N. Kelly says:

      03:38pm | 14/04/11

      “You reckon the planet’s temperature is never going to change from now on, regardless of what we do or don’t do ? “

      MarK says: 08:06am | 14/04/11   “Of course not.”

      How much will it change, and how much will we save ?

    • TimB says:

      04:11pm | 14/04/11

      *sigh*

      MarK, I’m sure you already realise this, but allow me to translate for others who may be confused by the (possibly deliberate) denseness of our favourite bushranger.

      “N. Kelly says:03:38pm | 14/04/11

      “You reckon the planet’s temperature is never going to change from now on, regardless of what we do or don’t do ? “

      MarK says: 08:06am | 14/04/11   “Of course not.”

      ‘Of course not’ as in ‘Of course I (MarK) don’t think that’

      ‘Of course not’ as in of course he doesn’t agree with the idiotic misrepresentation you’ve tried to to attribute to him.

      For the logically challenged bushranger: The world’s temperature will change. It will continue to change, along with the climate. But no matter what Australia does or does not do, it will continue to change in the *exact same way regardless*

      i.e. Australia’s effect will be negligible.

    • N. Kelly says:

      04:42pm | 14/04/11

      How much will it change, and how much will we save?

      Simple questions. You can answer them, can’t you?

    • MarK says:

      06:04pm | 14/04/11

      Answered the questioned above.

      Now Ms Kelly is just looking more than foolish.

      Surely someone who is on the warmist side can answer the simple questions posed and the ones in my op.

      What is the replacement for coal base load power and how do you make yourself more competitive by artificially making the inputs you use more expensive?

    • N. Kelly says:

      02:08am | 15/04/11

      No, you didn’t.

      You said how much it wouldn’t change, after saying that, “The temperature of the planet fluctuates all the time”, and how much we wouldn’t save.

      That’s not what I asked.

      The questions were, if you’d like to scroll up and check, How much will it change, and how much will we save?

      Simple questions. You can answer them, can’t you ?

    • TimB says:

      06:37am | 15/04/11

      Yep Kelly is AASQ.

      No-one else has “logic” that terminally stupid.

      Your questions have been answered. And you still haven’t answered MarK’s. He asked first you know.

      You’re trying to be clever (again), and failing dismally.

    • MarK says:

      09:13am | 15/04/11

      I shake my head at the embarrassment some people are willing to put themselves through.

    • N.Kelly says:

      09:29am | 15/04/11

      Still no anwers eh, MarK?

      Here’s your last chance. We’ll take them one at a time to make it easier for you.

      You said the world’s temperature is going to change.

      By how much ? Simple question.

      Take your time.

    • Govt@FauxCitizen says:

      11:52pm | 13/04/11

      This is the most hair brained crap I’ve ever heard, alegedly certain “households” are going to be compensated with more money than the alleged amount they are supposedly going to be worse off by with 50% odd of the carbon dioxide tax and apparently the other 40% odd is going to be used for certain businesses “affected” by increased production costs “forever”, well if you can beleive this pile of steaming horseshit that this wonderful and indeed generous collection of brightsparks who couldn’t manage any of their previous projects without controvesy, waste and disaster, then the tooth fairy is on the way for you,  that budget surplus Gillard’s promised for 2012-2013 is the only reason for this cleverly disguised tax grab,  so that she can climb out of the budget black hole LaboUr created.

    • Fed up walter says:

      10:15am | 14/04/11

      Right on the button. It is not the tax that is the thing that bothers me on its own, it is the fact that to any politician the only way they know in how to solve a problem is to put a TAX,LEVY, SURCHARGE, FINE, OR A TAX WITH SOME OTHER NAME TO FOOL US. Reality is, this tax will not solve the problem.  Labour politicians are completely out of their depth because they have absolutely no business acumin and only relate to union shop stewarding and getting onto local, state and federal parliment using union money. How easy is that.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      01:54am | 14/04/11

      He is right.  There are more rent seekers per square inch in this country than any other and they make Jack Abramoff look like a rank amateur.

      All those dingbats whinging should remember we have been destroying the homes of our nearest neighbours for the past 50 years with more and more pollution.

      Just one mine in SA sucks up half our electricity.

      How about that?  Olympic Dam mine sucks up half our coal fired electricity which puts the price up by 120-190% in the nearest towns.

      We are the stupid country.

      And govt. phoney citizen - which frigging part of you won’t be paying the damn tax don’t you get?

    • Richard says:

      08:29am | 14/04/11

      But I mean, isn’t that exactly the point Marilyn: all the carbon emissions that come from mining that uranium gets added to our tally, but then the product gets shipped off to France for them to use merrily, and then they have the nerve to turn around and say to us “oh tsk tsk, look how high your carbon emissions per capita are, naughty naughty. You should be more like us, we only have a small carbon emissions per capita foot print”.

      This is a world problem people, it can’t be solved by just looking at Australia as an isolated case. And the main part of the world problem isn’t the coal from Australia: the main problem is deforestation in Brazil and Indonesia, over-population in India, and the largest industrial revolution in China the world has EVER seen.

      These are the real problems, and I cannot support a policy which self-proclaims itself to be the best way to help the environment if it isn’t even ATTEMPTING to address these main problems, and anyone else who’s serious about protecting the environment also needs to realise that this carbon tax is a diversion to distract our attention away from solving the real environmental problems of the world, and thus needs to be strenuously opposed.

    • ardy says:

      06:14am | 14/04/11

      There are a few errors in this Governments thinking. If they are going to compensate a large proportion of the population (not hard when 42% of families get more in government handouts than they pay in tax) where are the great changes going to come from. There is no incentive for those 42% to reduce their carbon footprint as they already make money out of it, according to Combet and Gillard.

      The the settled science: If this is the end of the world why are governments allowing the Chinese to increase CO2 output to 100 gigatonnes by 2040 (Copenhagen Agreement- not signed by because the Americans wanted inspectors in China).  Now 100gigatonnes is more than 3x current total human CO2 (29gtns - Skeptical science - heaters site).

      The heater scientists keep lowering the temperature increases they expect, from 0.30C per decade in 1990, to 0.20C per decade in 2001, and now 0.15C per decade — yet they have the gall to tell us “it’s worse than expected.” - David Evans ex consultant with Office of Global Warming.

      Even if we stopped emitting all carbon dioxide tomorrow and went back to the Stone Age, according to the official government climate models it would be cooler in 2050 by about 0.015 degrees — in fact our sacrifices would make the planet in 2050 a mere 0.0015 degrees cooler!(climate models exaggerate 10x)- David Evans

      The weighted average temperature change in Australia from 1910 to 2010 is 0.0255c. This is from the BOM database. source- Mike Jonas

      And so it goes on. David Evans in his fascinating article ‘Climate Models go Cold’, states that the science was over in the 90’s when the atmospheric hotspot was not found and since then it has been totally political and NOT science.

    • Against the Man says:

      08:30am | 14/04/11

      This what the government should do - No tax!

      Start investing in alternative energy projects, create a technology industry to rival the best from the US and Asia (our mining boom aren’t going to last forever!). Develop and provide cheap alternate energy, via more efficient cars/solar panels/wind generators for Australians. Export the technology/manufacturing products and use the PROFITS for further investments in Australia.

      In one go you develop a local industry, help the environment, keep profits/jobs/Local brainpower/Import foreign brainpower. Remember countries like Singapore/Taiwan/Japan have very little natural resources yet they could buy us out in a second. We have to develop or diminish!

      But that plan won’t get Labor instant money to cover up the budget blackhole they created. Gilltard for herself all the way!!!!!!!!!!!

    • grumpy old man says:

      08:46am | 14/04/11

      Unless Combet has discovered the home of the illusive golden goose ( which could very well be Kirribilli!), if I add up the numbers, he’s proposing to give away twice as much as he raises, or perhaps the new school math curriculum is going to insist that 50% +50%+50%+50% -= 100%. Who knows? not only has this govt managed to suspend democracy, but also suspend reality, not a bad result for a bunch of political hacks.

    • terexdex says:

      10:23am | 14/04/11

      It will have some result!  It will make us all poorer!  Give the depleted surplus a big boost, and make Australia look stupid!

      trex.

    • Big Moss says:

      10:27am | 14/04/11

      If the Carbon Tax is going to be so good for lower income earners and pensioners etc - then why didn’t Gillard fight the last election based on it??

    • Seth Brundle says:

      03:00pm | 14/04/11

      We’re not alone, eh?  How about we wait until we are ACTUALLY not alone, rather than crossing our fingers that the real poluters will actually follow through.  After all, anything we do is going to be purely symbolic anyway (by virtue of our negligible population) so it would be a shame to destroy our industry’s only to find out that America and China pulled the pin on their anti-carbon plans at the last minute.
      As for households not being affected by the tax, or even being better off (I had trouble typing that with a straight face), who do you think will bear the brunt of the costs that are passed onto industry?  Do you think they will absorb it into their profit margins, or do you think that maybe it will be passed onto the consumers? 
      If every single dollar collected by the tax was to be invested into nuclear power, or even into researching cleaner energy alternatives then I might actually support this tax (and I am a climate change denier).  But we all know this is never going to happen.  The money will dissappear into the abyss and no one will be accountable, and we will all be paying the carbon tax long after climate change has been forgotten and we are all panicing over the next big global crisis (there is always at least one, isnt there?).

    • Bryan says:

      03:11pm | 14/04/11

      Malcolm, I am but a simple person with a simple brain and I cannot work out Gillards Carbon Tax. (Let’s leave aside the debate on just where, when and how Carbon Dioxide plays a role in AGW).

      So the top emitters of carbon dioxide will be taxed (because they emit too much carbon dioxide)?. Then 50% of this tax impost on this select group of the big emitters will be paid back to a select group of tax payers within the community.

      Here are a few questions.

      1. Does this mean that this tax that is put on the big emitters will come off their bottom line profit?
          a. If it does come off their bottom line profit will these big emitters still think it profitable to continue trading?
          b. If these big emitters don’t think it is profitable to keep trading will they then close down and retrench their staff.
          c. Will these retrenched staff be entitled to a special Carbon Tax Retrenchment Retraing Rebate, that the Australian taxpayers will have to pay for?
      2. If this tax does not come off the big emitters bottom line profit.
          a. Why wouldn’t the big emitters just add this impost to their costs and include it as part of their expenses?
          b. And then, why impose the tax if it is going to be fed through as a legitimate expense?
            c. And then, tell me again, how has this Carbon Dioxide Tax stopped or lowered the emission of Carbon Dioxide?
      3. Also, where did the other 50% of this tax go?
      4. How do you think the people (who are deemed by the Government not worthy of getting any compensation - because of their income or financial status) are going to feel?

    • Seth Brundle says:

      04:02pm | 14/04/11

      In response to question #4 (“How do you think the people ...are going to feel”), I believe the answer is “warm and fuzzy inside, due to the knowledge that they are saving the planet”.  That is, unless you dont think it will be making any difference, in which the case the answer is “extremely p***ed off”

    • Hunter says:

      03:16pm | 14/04/11

      “millions of households will be better off under the carbon price”
      Combet says, but fails to go on to say that many millions more will be worse off. How can they calculate the true flow on effect of the tax to know how much to compensate some households? If you are a self funded retiree on a low income and not paying tax or not on a pension how are you going to be compensated?

    • ardy says:

      03:57pm | 14/04/11

      Hunter - you can bet your bottom ? that the ‘millions more will be worse off.’ you mentioned will be the tax payers and the ones not affected will be the 42% of households who pay less tax than they get in government handouts. So there is going to be 8% of families ‘better off’ under this proposal.

      We are moving rapidly towards a basket case and this Carbon Tax has to be the worst I have seen in 35 years.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:09pm | 14/04/11

      This is amazing, look at all the ‘support’ Gillard is getting. Look as this government systematically destroy this country with the aid of the Greens and Independents. So what do we do? I think the ALP is basically finished, the final nail has been slammed into that coffin. Gilltard is offically the worst PM this country ever had. HaHa, a legacy of absolute shame. C’mon people we need to put pressure on this system and we need to do it now.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:09pm | 14/04/11

      This is amazing, look at all the ‘support’ Gillard is getting. Look as this government systematically destroy this country with the aid of the Greens and Independents. So what do we do? I think the ALP is basically finished, the final nail has been slammed into that coffin. Gilltard is offically the worst PM this country ever had. HaHa, a legacy of absolute shame. C’mon people we need to put pressure on this system and we need to do it now.

    • Henry Morgan says:

      04:05pm | 14/04/11

      When discussing the amount of emissions we are responsible for, I think it would be useful to stop using the term “per capita” altogether as it is obviously muddying the water of the debate.  After all, the climate doesn’t care about “per capita”, it only cares about the actual amount of emissions.  If we are going to get slugged with yet another tax, lets at least be honest about how little it is actually going to accomplish.

    • Simon says:

      05:49pm | 14/04/11

      All this hate and vitriol towards a carbon tax generates from one place:  Laziness. 

      All you moaners who keep spouting figures about the insignificance of Australia’s contribution to emissions are merely concerned with having to tighten the belt around your plus-sized waistlines and maybe turning the air conditioner down once in a while.

      “Nah bugger it…leave the transition to renewables to the next generation..or the generation after that.  I’m about to upgrade to a bigger flat screen!”

      Pull your head in the lot of you.

    • B says:

      01:52am | 15/04/11

      Lol.  How superior are you Mr.  Here is a question smart-arse.  Transition to what renewables?  None can supply the BASE-LOAD power supply that coal can.  Unlike your “Fairies at the bottom of the Garden” renewables, this is a COLD HARD FACT.

      So typical of the left.  Has no idea what hard work is or any clue about the real world and how things work!!!

    • Simon says:

      12:25pm | 15/04/11

      Fairies at the bottom of the garden?  What in God’s name are you on about?  Are you denying the existence of alternative energy sources?  You’re going to need to elaborate on this fairies concept.

      In response to base load power, I’ll ask that you focus on the word “transition”....as in over time.  This country’s extensive reliance on brown coal does not make environmental or economic sense in the long-term when there are cleaner and cheaper technologies available or being developed. 

      Australians have taken for granted the past 10 years of ridiculously cheap electricity.  Suddenly the shit is hitting the fan with considerable investment being required to meet the growth in peak demand and higher reliability requirements. 

      Businesses have for a long time considered their energy costs as fixed and done nothing about reducing them.  A carbon price is the ONLY real option in our economy to stimulate change, both in efficiency/carbon abatement terms and in terms of investment in renewable energy.  The fact so many people are struggling to grasp this is troubling and perhaps a reflection on the government for failing to properly engage the public in the debate, and leave them to form their own opinions based on the typical views expressed on talkback radio.

    • Its a scam....so this heretic says:

      01:32pm | 15/04/11

      Does anyone with a modicum of intelligence actually believe in man made climate change (Global warming) anymore?  I thought this was put to bed with Climategate??  Co2 is not a pollutant, it happens to be necessary for life on this planet to exist at all, ask any botanist.  Even Dr.David Bellamy believes an ETS and man made climate change is a scam.

 

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Daniel Piotrowski

RT @Colgo: Read this article on commas. Then see the correction at the end. Ooof! http://t.co/ZkLs6494

Paul Colgan

Read this article on commas. Then see the correction at the end. Ooof! http://t.co/ZkLs6494

Paul Colgan

And here is a picture of a fox cub with its little head stuck in a can http://t.co/bDsY351x

ToryShepherd

RT @cuisinemagazine: Yep, there's always a time for rubbish bread “@ToryShepherd: Imagine a world with multigrain at the sausage sizzle... http://t.co/0K4JyWKH

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

Protecting the Barrier Reef is the Fin end of the wedge

Protecting the Barrier Reef is the Fin end of the wedge

When you take on a job like being Environment Minister there’s some hits you can see coming. …

ICB: Is white bread the worst thing since sliced bread?

ICB: Is white bread the worst thing since sliced bread?

Welcome to this week’s I Call Bullshit column. It’s a regular column that looks at skulduggery…

Sometimes, you’ve just got to stick it to the bloody ref

Sometimes, you’ve just got to stick it to the bloody ref

We are taught early in life that we should not question authority. We must listen to our parents, our…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

243 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free daily Punch newsletter