After more than a decade in politics, I have sadly grown used to watching the often bizarre stances taken by other pollies and wondering why they are doing what they are doing.

Hoping for that pokies revenue to keep rolling in.

The response of some members of the Coalition to the poker machine issue is a case in point.

To truly understand the Coalition’s current position on pokies, you need to know it has nothing to do with pokies.

It’s about power. They want it (who can blame them), and they think they can use this issue to get it.

And if the hundreds of thousands of Australians have their lives ruined through lack of reform, is that a price the Coalition seems willing to pay.

Stephen Ciobo’s piece for The Punch about this issue was a sad example of the knots the Coalition is willing to tie itself into, in order to ignore the bleeding obvious.

That is, that poker machines are an intensely addictive and dangerous form of gambling and that 40 per cent of all losses on poker machines come from problem gamblers.

I know there are members of the Coalition who care deeply about this issue.

But it seems, officially, politics has trumped good policy, and the Coalition has seen this issue as an opportunity to try and drive a wedge between Andrew Wilkie and the Labor Government.

It is a condition of Andrew Wilkie’s support for the Labor that it introduce better protections for poker machine gamblers.

But rather than focussing on any solution, the Coalition seems to have decided that if they can block reform, Andrew will be forced to withdraw his support for the current Government, and the Opposition will be one step closer to the trappings of power.

Even in a cynical world like politics, this seems to be a new low.

Stephen Ciobo, whose seat incidentally contains Jupiter’s Casino, seems to want to argue that the problem is with the addicted gamblers, not with the product.

This is a stupid argument.

It’s a bit like saying people die in car crashes no matter how safe the cars are, so why bother with seatbelts and airbags.

His selective use of experts and information from the Gambling Reform Committee seems right out of the Clubs Australia play book.

He quotes the Warfield and Associates investigation which found that poker machines were the most common way to gamble stolen money.

But rather than proposing ways we can better regulate the industry to reduce the problem gambling that can lead to crime, Stephen instead mounts the flimsy argument that ‘Hey if they’re desperate enough to steal, they’ll find ways to get around any player protections.’

By that logic, I assume Stephen is against speed limits, because some people are going to speed anyway.

Can we also assume it will be Coalition policy to legalise heroin because ‘druggies’ as Stephen so delicately labels them, will shoot up anyway?

No-one is pretending anything any Government does will wipe out poker machines addiction completely.

This is about reducing the harm.  This is about making a dangerous product safer.

Stephen also quotes Dr Sally Gainsbury from Southern Cross University, without including the pertinent fact that she actually supports the Government’s policy of mandatory pre-commitment as one of a number of measure to reduce gambling addiction.

Stephen also quotes Professor Alex Blaszczynski from the University of Sydney.  Interestingly the industry love quoting Alex, and have funded significant amounts of his research.

Using Alex’s quotes Stephen argues that the focus on federal player protections might take away from “the current measures that have helped reduce the rate of problem gambling.”

Those “current measures” are deliberately ineffectual measures like little signs, and lame websites that the industry has agreed to because it knows they don’t work, and won’t reduce revenue.

And in case you don’t think this is all about politics for the Coalition, Stephen completely gives the game away in his final paragraph by writing the increased player protections are “the ransom demand of a rogue MP – and Julia Gillard and Labor are prepared to pay what ever the cost in order to cling to power.”

But let’s not forget who will pay for this Coalition’s cynical power play.

It’ll be the children who go hungry, the small businesses that are robbed, and loved ones who suicide because these unsafe product weren’t made safer.

That’s the potential price of this power play, and conveniently for the Coalition, someone else will pay it.

90 comments

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    • michael j says:

      06:41am | 28/04/11

      only 15 dead from starvation,didn’t read the article,
      Out with POKER machines ,,Nick BAN them,,

    • acotrel says:

      07:14am | 28/04/11

      One of the spin -off of the pokies is suicide.  BAN THEM!

    • Rick says:

      09:05am | 28/04/11

      Love of money the route of all evil,don’t get between the greedy and a pile of money Nick. I like what you do but you have your work cut out.Unfortunately I get to see the poor souls that are getting screwd most days but cant help think if they wern’t losing their money on pokies they’d find another way to blow it.Keep up the good work Nick and good luck…....your going to need it!

    • Phil says:

      10:36am | 28/04/11

      Governments of all persuasions are more addicted to the revenue from pokies than the gamblers are to them. That is one of the most important but real issues here.
      See, state governments rack in billions in poker machine taxes.
      NSW did a dodgy deal with publicans to get pokies into pubs when Bob Carr was elected, that and promising to scrap the tolls out west. Since them the publicans and gaming industry have been some of NSW labor’s biggest backers. If you look at the top gaming pubs many are in not what you would call affluent areas, but bring in massive money to publicans and state governments. The upside for the feds is that pubs pay taxes on the profits, and Swannie wouldnt like another slash of his pocket money either.
      acotrel, I find myself in unchartered waters here, I agree with you on something. Ban them. Many a non problem gambler will quit using pokies if there activities are monitored.
      It is also common knowledge in the past that pokies cleaned up a lot of dirty money. BY putting money in, playing for a while you could walk away with a cheque and pay effectively around 15% tax on illegally gotten money. I am told this is much harder these days, but not impossible.
      Nick the libs are doing what most political parties do, looking after the interests of their consitituants. Many libs are not problem gamblers, but members of golf clubs, social and other clubs. They dont see the issue of limiting and imposing burden on 90% of the population cause of the ways of 10% or so. I may not agree entirely with these stats or facts or actions of the libs, but again I dont gamble, wouldnt put $20 a year through pokies, but will happily fork out $ 500 for lunch and another
      $ 500 for drinks at the pubs at a business lunch.
      Instead why not ask them to offer an alternative to Wilkies plans.

    • Patrick says:

      06:48am | 28/04/11

      I had wondered if the Coalition was willing to get it’s hands this dirty and oppose it for political reasons.

      It strikes me as a silly move however. There is little they can do to block them, except until the new senate takes shape, the reforms will pass (assuming the co-operation of the cross benchers) and they will have gained nothing but be on the record as having voted against this overwhelmingly popular measure.

    • Freeman says:

      10:59am | 28/04/11

      I’m dissapointed with the coalition’s stance on this so far. They should propose an alternative solution before they talk about blocking the ALP.
      The proposed changes are good but better regulation on how the machines can be programmed to operate would be the real answer.

    • annie j says:

      06:53am | 28/04/11

      what a load of PC tripe, big brother doing our thinking for us are we to go down the same road as europe. if comrade nick has his way we will. personal responsibility whatever happened to that. and if you think your actions will change anything and not cause significant damage to especially rural communities your living in cuckoo land. And yes it is another ransom demand from our looney independents

    • acotrel says:

      07:17am | 28/04/11

      @Annie Removal of the pokies will HELP rural communities.  At present the drug peddlars, and pokies venues are bleeding the wealth from our country towns!  I’d point out that one of the best towns in NE Victoria is Mansfield.  It has two beautiful pubs which sell excellent meals - all done with NO POKIES!!

    • mid says:

      07:26am | 28/04/11

      You know, it kind of irritates me when people who don’t understand what PC actually is that they think it means “anything I don’t agree with”. The rest of your argument may well have some good points, but you lost me in the first 6 words.

    • Matt F says:

      08:43am | 28/04/11

      yes Mid it seems PC has become the new unaustralian. Actually quite appropriate given the theme of the Clubs ad campaign

    • Jane says:

      02:10pm | 28/04/11

      Mid, I couldn’t agree more. So many people throw around that term, however they clearly don’t understand it at all. It’s incredibly annoying.

    • annie j says:

      02:38pm | 28/04/11

      Mid it is PC these people beleive that governments are their to protect us from all the evils and pitfalls of life, whats next pre committments on alcahol!

    • Roja says:

      02:58pm | 28/04/11

      Annie is clearly a pub or club owner.

    • Libby Mitchell says:

      04:39pm | 28/04/11

      Whatever happened to Business Responsibility, annie j? Why must it always just be ‘personal’? The gambling industry has been most irresponsible in its level of consumer safety management for years…and NOW every place that offers pokies is operating them ILLEGALLY it seems? Checked the new Australian Consumer Laws lately?

      Pokies do NOT give consumer spending receipts as a matter of course. They are meant to. Staff will maybe write a hand-writtien receipt IF people ask, before and after using every separate machine…and that takes up to 90 minutes to do when venues are busy…so no wonder no consumers ever ask? PLUS the consumer law never said anything about having to ask for a transaction record before spending? Pokies venues do…IF they offer a transaction record at all.

      Fact remains that by law businesses MUST provide consumer receipts / transaction records…so go tell that to the gambling industry?

      ALL responsible consumers need transaction records to budget properly, to know when to slow down. No wonder so many people (50-60% of pokies gamblers surveyed) admit to regular over-spending on pokies!

      SO get off your pony annie j…get the gambling industry to meet its business responsibilities and then maybe ALL pokies gamblers can be more responsible?

      ps I live near a small Gippsland VIC country town that has been totally screwed by pokies according to the retailers who have survived to eke out a living here….when many other businesses have already folded so employment is right down. Pokies venues only employ 1/3 to 1/2 the numbers of employees that other more ‘responsible, productive’ businesses employ for the same money taken. You really do need to learn more facts here annie j before that pony bucks you right off.

    • TChong says:

      07:01am | 28/04/11

      The LNP policy is consistant - conservative reactionary.
      Doesnt matter what the issue,  a contrary view is held,  even to the point of stupidity - ie Ciobo spruiking for unrestricted gambling.
      Being needlessly adversairial, regardless of the issue , is the only policy the LNP has. To actually have policy means accountability, so the LNP doesnt have any.
      Far easier to criticise than produce anything of their own.

    • acotrel says:

      07:57am | 28/04/11

      Chongy, I agree!  The LNP pollies are opportunistic ratbags - like their leader!

    • Bris Jack says:

      08:04am | 28/04/11

      Consistant and reactionary?

    • Michael says:

      08:25am | 28/04/11

      You Mr Chong, have done a wonderful job of describing your own contribution here.

    • Rattle and NO says:

      09:32am | 28/04/11

      What else do we expect from the party of NO?
      They are a tired group of Howard era ghosts clanging their chains in the halls of opposition The only ones listening to their lamentable cries are the lunatic fringe from whence they came.

    • Paul H says:

      07:16am | 28/04/11

      Nick, whilst I applaud your concern for addicts, I have to wonder why anyone working hospitality needs to obtain a certificate in RCG. Obviously the course is not working, as staff are failing to identify problem gamblers. As an ex pub manager and licensee, it is not difficult to know who amongst regular patrons is a problem gambler and as far as clubs go, there are normally enough staff on the floor who should be able to do likewise. Why is it that again the majority are to be penalised because of a few? Similar situation applies to alcohol fueled violence. If serving staff were more observant and used the guidelines in the RSA course, the problem would not be as bad as it is. It’s time managers and licensees were made more responsible.

    • Mahhrat says:

      12:18pm | 28/04/11

      Paul, why I laud the idea that the venue can (and should) be responsible, if we’re not going to make the individual responsible for their actions, then it should be done by the appropriate authorities, not the business owners.

      I like the idea of “cutting off” and all publicans should be encouraged to do so with anything from dress to alcohol to gambling.  After all, they have the right to refuse you service at any time.

      Thing is though, they shouldn’t be FORCED to be so accountable - after all, if they remonstrate with a patron who then fires up, they can’t unlawfully detain him or other such things.

    • dale says:

      07:18am | 28/04/11

      There is no logical reason to oppose the pokie or smoking reforms.

      It amazes and astounds me that in australia we have a good politition who wants to help the people even if it is a total of 1.

      Just think if all the elected officials were out to help the people instead of cozy up to anyone for more power how great of a place Australia would be.

      but i guess it all comes down to power coroupting.

    • thatmosis says:

      07:19am | 28/04/11

      Nick has infortunately shown his true colours protecting the idiot minority from themselves at the expense of the majority. Its time this nanny state mentality was duck shoved out of the way and people allowed to use their own common sense in these matters. If someone is weak enough
      to blow all their money on a stupid machine then its their worry and why should i be made to pay for their lack of self control. Have a look at the amount of idiot proofing that has been introduced into law and the costs that have been incurred by those not of that ilk. Time to call a halt to this and let the dice fall where they may, after all this is supposed to be a democracy.

    • KH says:

      08:03am | 28/04/11

      So we will just ignore the people who get hurt and didn’t gamble a cent?  Say, children.  Or the people who get robbed.  Yeah - lets just ignore them - the government should be spending as much effort as possible into allowing people to destroy their own and others’ lives, because that is way more responsible.

    • kerry says:

      08:55am | 28/04/11

      @thatmosis - Nick Xenophon was elected on an anti-pokies platform, so his true colours were always about doing something about “the idiot minority.”

      For every problem gambler there are 5-10 other people who are negatively affected either financially, emotionally, socially or physically.

      You are already paying for their lack of control through the demand on community services including the need for material or financial assistance, counselling, financial counselling, emergency accommodation, refuge from domestic violence, emergency financial aid and income support, food vouchers, assistance with bills, not to mention police resources in the detection and prosecution of crime, the court and prison system, etc.

      All these services are funded in one way or another by taxpayers. To tackle problem gambling is actually an attempt to reduce the burden on the taxpayer.

      The only problem for you in the end will be a group of sanctimonious ex-gamblers who will bore you to death with their success stories and who will look down on the next crop of problem gamblers much the same as ex-smokers look down on those who continue to smoke, and by the looks of it much the same as you do.

    • Duff says:

      09:22am | 28/04/11

      “..protecting the idiot minority from themselves at the expense of the majority.” Ok, so you concede these measures will in fact protect the minority?  And what is the “expense” of the majority exactly?  Freedom to gamble?

      “If someone is weak enough to blow all their money on a stupid machine then its their worry…”  The point is that it is not just their worry, it is the worry of their children, of their families and the community as well.

      “...and why should i be made to pay for their lack of self control?”  How exactly are you paying anything at all?

      “Time to call a halt to this and let the dice fall where they may, after all this is supposed to be a democracy.”  Yes it is, good point.  We had an election and Wilkie was voted in.  This legislation is actually a result of our democracy in action.

    • Rossco says:

      10:06am | 28/04/11

      I think it’s come to the stage where no one can actually be responsible for their own actions and we will always have to rely upon our greater government to take care of everyone and repeatedly shout in their ear about what they are doing wrong like some overbearing over-protective nanny.

      Anything that may be harmful to people like smoking, alcohol and gambling will just have to be outright banned because people can’t look after themselves and it’s all bad, bad, bad.

      The majority of free thinking responsible adults will just have to suffer in their jocks if they want to enjoy smoking, alcohol and gambling.

    • Drew says:

      10:13am | 28/04/11

      thatmosis - By your logic, we should not ban cocaine, ecstacy or heroin. If somebody is weak enough to allow themselves to be addicted to it then it is their worry, not ours.

    • Tim says:

      10:38am | 28/04/11

      Ha ha,
      the old won’t someone think of the children argument.
      Puhleeaassee.
      If a parent is gambling away money that should be used on their family then that person is not a fit parent and it should be an issue for child services.
      Obviously there needs to be action to help problem gamblers and there should be greater restrictions on where the money raised by poker machines is used (more community spending).
      But as the links provided by Xenophon show, only 100000 people have a gambling problem and contribute 40% of the revenue. Surely it would be far better to come up with schemes to target these 100000 people rather than apply these blanket Nanny state ideas.

      So many people are willing to give up freedoms in this country because of the stupidity of a tiny minority. It makes me sick.

    • kerry says:

      11:22am | 28/04/11

      @Tim
      [it should be an issue for child services.]

      Who do you think pays for child services?

    • Clock Watcher says:

      12:22pm | 28/04/11

      Tim
      We already had one stolen generation and you want another?
      Oh wait
      According to Abbott, there wasn’t ever a stolen generation.
      Carry on with that conservative agenda Tim

    • Tim says:

      12:25pm | 28/04/11

      Kerry,
      what’s your point?
      That taxpayers fund child services? So what?

    • Rob M says:

      01:21pm | 28/04/11

      The poor, maltreated majority that thatmosis pontificates about will not be affected by this reform. You know why? Because the majority (61.4%) of adult Australians do not use the wretched machines. “the expense of the majority” is clearly not the expense of the majority of Australians. Just the majority of those who agree with thatmosis (and not even them).

      I find it amusing that much of the counter-attack to the pokies reform has revolved around the assumption that somehow all Australians everywhere will be paying for it in some kind of ghost tax. If this blatant misrepresentation is to be the standard of neoliberal debate, then the pokies are as good as gone.

      Let’s talk about the role of the pokies in the market, shall we? You don’t need an Oxford education to realise that personal income comes into two basic brackets: sustainable income and disposable income. Sustainable income is what keeps you alive, and the rest, well, that’s up to you. Now the money that gets spent in pokies is *usually* disposable income. In the case of pokies addiction, however, it often starts to eat away at the sustainable income. Now that’s what this reform is trying to stop. If people have to set their targets ahead of time (before the dopamine kicks in), they will have more control over their family budgets. Anybody would agree that more control is a good thing.

      If pokies ceased to exist tomorrow, the market would adapt. Australians would be able to spend/invest more money on other things like groceries, petrol, mortagage repayments (you know, stuff that has been rising in price lately?), or holidays, education or savings funds, household amenities, transport etc. etc. Yes, there would be some job losses in former-pokies related industry, but the losses would be made up by the creation of new jobs in other (more ethical) industries that would be receiving the investment/revenue previously spent on pokies.

    • Rob M says:

      01:21pm | 28/04/11

      The poor, maltreated majority that thatmosis pontificates about will not be affected by this reform. You know why? Because the majority (61.4%) of adult Australians do not use the wretched machines. “the expense of the majority” is clearly not the expense of the majority of Australians. Just the majority of those who agree with thatmosis (and not even them).

      I find it amusing that much of the counter-attack to the pokies reform has revolved around the assumption that somehow all Australians everywhere will be paying for it in some kind of ghost tax. If this blatant misrepresentation is to be the standard of neoliberal debate, then the pokies are as good as gone.

      Let’s talk about the role of the pokies in the market, shall we? You don’t need an Oxford education to realise that personal income comes into two basic brackets: sustainable income and disposable income. Sustainable income is what keeps you alive, and the rest, well, that’s up to you. Now the money that gets spent in pokies is *usually* disposable income. In the case of pokies addiction, however, it often starts to eat away at the sustainable income. Now that’s what this reform is trying to stop. If people have to set their targets ahead of time (before the dopamine kicks in), they will have more control over their family budgets. Anybody would agree that more control is a good thing.

      If pokies ceased to exist tomorrow, the market would adapt. Australians would be able to spend/invest more money on other things like groceries, petrol, mortagage repayments (you know, stuff that has been rising in price lately?), or holidays, education or savings funds, household amenities, transport etc. etc. Yes, there would be some job losses in former-pokies related industry, but the losses would be made up by the creation of new jobs in other (more ethical) industries that would be receiving the investment/revenue previously spent on pokies.

    • Roja says:

      03:08pm | 28/04/11

      And the people that steal money to fund their addiction, where do they go exactly?  Prison right, at a cost of $100,000 or more per year.  The kids head into welfare, which isn’t so costly as it is so heavily underfunded.  Society loses another capable worker so less tax coming in (be it income or from the pokies), as well as less consumption of goods and services.  These sould like issues that concern conservatives to me, or at least should do. 

      To me these are nothing compared to having worked on the front line of welfare delivery, this is where we get into that “PC crap” about peoples lives being ruined (be it marriages, families etc). 

      Hand me a baseball bat and a card that authorises me to smash each and every one of these machines to pieces and I will get to work straight away.  Please.

    • DocBud says:

      11:51pm | 28/04/11

      Amen to that, thatmosis.

      @ Drew, I actually think all drugs should be legal, just as tobacco and alcohol are, it should be an individual’s choice whether or not they use them, not government’s.

      @clockwatcher, so you agree, the so called stolen generation was taken into care to protect them from dysfunctional parents but you would prefer that these unhappy children should be left with such parents to suffer.

      @ Rob M, I love the term “pokies reform” when you mean pokies regulation. we all lose when governments erode our freedom to make choices, even if, in this case, our choice is not to play the pokies,

      “Anybody would agree that more control is a good thing.”

      I disagree, Rob, so make that anybody - 1.

    • pj says:

      10:49am | 01/05/11

      i agree,thatmosis..you don’t have to drink poison to know its poison!

    • Strictly horses says:

      07:51am | 28/04/11

      As far as I’m concerned you can do whatever you like to the pokie industry and cigarette industry. The louder they squeal, the better the idea.

      ...And what is so new about the coalition being big money’s bitch?

    • Fall of the Dice says:

      07:55am | 28/04/11

      Give me Big Brother and a Nanny any day rather than governments who get paid by revenue from the brain dead.  I just wish Nick was able to be Prime Minister of Australia

    • MarK says:

      08:15am | 28/04/11

      Serious question.

      Can someone link the 40% of losses made by problem gamblers claim please. Where is the research on this and what underpins it?

      I would like to know the definition of a problem gambler to be honest as well.

      Anyone got the studies and what not that is being tossed about?

    • persephone says:

      09:27am | 28/04/11

      MarK

      this looks like a good place to start, although I haven’t had time to read it properly:

      http://www.aph.gov.au/library/intguide/sp/gambling_ebrief.htm

      Although it’s from the early 2000s, there are links below to research bodies which may have more up to date info.

      If I get time, I’ll have a bit more of a dig.

    • Just say NO says:

      09:39am | 28/04/11

      Oh Hai MarK
      Do you want the coalition approved numbers or the real numbers?

      Perhaps you can find something on the whatsupwiththat website.
      The weatherman seems to know lots of stuff. If you don’t find something there, try calling the pokie association. I’m sure they can point you at some real good information you can use in your unequivocal support of the coalition all encompassing policy and platform of NO.

    • kerry says:

      10:22am | 28/04/11

      Sheesh, don’t know why that link is coming up correctly.
      Google
      problem gamblers responsible for 40 per cent
      Clikc on 1st link entitled
      P: OKER MACHINE REFORM FURTHER BACKGROUND
      cheers

    • persephone says:

      10:26am | 28/04/11

      Yep, kerry’s is the one to go to!

      The definition of a problem gambler is one who exhibits a particular pattern of behaviour. The US apparently refers to them as ‘pathological gamblers’.

      http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/95691/08-chapter5.pdf

      ‘If a person has some of the psychological behaviours consistent with ‘addiction’, including difficulties in controlling gambling, chasing losses, borrowing to gamble and the need to increase stimuli to maintain the same level of excitement, then they will be
      categorised as problem gamblers using most existing screens.’

      There’s a lot of analysis of the various definitions in the chapter referenced, so please regard my take on it as just that.

      This

      http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/95691/08-chapter5.pdf

      outlines the ‘screens’ currently used in Australia to determine problem gambling:

      ‘1. Have you bet more than you could really afford to lose?
      2. Still thinking about the last 12 months, have you needed to gamble with larger amounts of money to get the same feeling of excitement?
      3. When you gambled, did you go back another day to try to win back the money you lost?
      4. Have you borrowed money or sold anything to get money to gamble?
      5. Have you felt that you might have a problem with gambling?
      6. Has gambling caused you any health problems, including stress or anxiety?
      7. Have people criticized your betting or told you that you had a gambling problem, regardless of whether or not you thought it was true?
      8. Has your gambling caused any financial problems for you or your household?
      9. Have you felt guilty about the way you gamble or what happens when you gamble?
      Scoring Instructions for the CPGI
      Total your score. The higher your score the greater the risk that your gambling is a problem. Score the following for each response: never = 0, sometimes = 1 , most of the
      time = 2, almost always = 3.
      Scores for the nine items are summed, and the results are interpreted as follows:
      0 = Non-problem gambling; 1–2 = Low level of problems with few or no identified negative consequences; 3–7 = Moderate level of problems leading to some negative consequences; 8 or more = Problem gambling with negative consequences and a possible loss of control.’

      But there’s pages and pages on what makes a problem gambler, so I suggest you take a look for yourself.

      The 40% losses:

      The share of total spending accounted for by:  problem gamblers (those rated as CPGI 8+) was 41 per cent (with the range from
      the minimum to maximum being 22 to 60 per cent, and with 80 per cent of theestimates being between 27 and 54 per cent)

      http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/95691/08-chapter5.pdf

      How they work this all out (and even then refer to it as an estimate), is outlned here:

      http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/95707/24-appendixb.pdf

      Happy reading!

    • MarK says:

      12:58pm | 28/04/11

      I will do some reading - thank you for the links.

      And also

      ”  Just say NO says:

        09:39am | 28/04/11

        Oh Hai MarK
        Do you want the coalition approved numbers or the real numbers?

        Perhaps you can find something on the whatsupwiththat website.
        The weatherman seems to know lots of stuff. If you don’t find something there, try calling the pokie association. I’m sure they can point you at some real good information you can use in your unequivocal support of the coalition all encompassing policy and platform of NO.

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Fail cowardly troll is fail cowardly troll.

    • grumpy old man says:

      08:17am | 28/04/11

      Nick,
      this is just nanny state stuff, and an insult to everyone who manages thier lives in a reasonable way.
      People have a freedom of choice, and there will always be those in society that make bad choices. You can do all you like with poker machines, but unless, and until, you are prepared to adopt the same approach to every opportunity that an individual has to make bad choices, then frankly, I think you are just looking to secure votes, and it won’t include mine.
      case in point, the problems associated with alcoholism are a far greater cost to society than problem gamblers will ever be. I don’t see any steps being taken to limit alcohol consumption by the introduction of a drinking licence to prescribe how much a person is allowed to drink of a day. 
      What I want from a govt is that they stick to the big picture stuff like protecting the nation,  and stay the hell out of my life, because it is my life, and I’ll choose to do some good things, some bad things, and some plain dumb things, but it will never be your, or any other politicians right, to proscribe my right to make choices.

    • Codger Danger says:

      09:44am | 28/04/11

      How is this an insult to you exactly?

    • Drew says:

      10:17am | 28/04/11

      @grumpy old man - By your logic, why does the government ban heroin and cocaine? It doesn’t affect you. It is people’s own choice what they do to their bodies.

      Sometimes there is a good reason for government to get involved, isn’t there?

    • Tim says:

      10:46am | 28/04/11

      Drew,
      there is nothing inherently dangerous about poker machines. They are not a drug. Most people can play poker machines with no adverse affects other than losing money.
      Completely different to heroin or any other addictive drug.
      By your logic, why isn’t smoking, eating fatty foods, driving cars or any other activity that causes deaths or injuries banned?

    • Libby Mitchell says:

      08:47pm | 28/04/11

      @ grumpy old man: You said:

      “What I want from a govt is that they stick to the big picture stuff like protecting the nation”

      Get a grip grumpy…this might not be international war etc but that is exactly what Wilkie and Xenophon are trying to do in a sense? By taking this issue ‘national’ I do believe that they already are quite ‘big picture’? Besides you are not going to tell me that ALL you need from government is defense etc.? Really?

      Every time you ride on a road…be grateful to ‘big picture’ people perhaps? The ones who plan ahead and work out your needs for you, so that you can get to work on time, meet friends and visit the country.

      Every person in Australia isnegatively impacted in some way by pokies because they are out of control, they cost too much to run, people cannot stop losing their houses, businesses, savings and rent money on them as they are addictive ‘cheating devices’, people divorce and suicide over them and you say that is ALL OK? It’s THEIR right to be DUMB? How dumb are YOU?

      . Our other more ethical, more responsible, more productive businesses lose out, our jobless lose out when jobs ‘die’, taxpayers have to work harder to cover the costs that are forever mounting…and you say that your rights to ‘freedom’ when YOU want it, should be met? While so many families and innocent people are harmed? You just do not care who you walk over do you? You are full of it. Heading your way a government could not even afford to protect the nation! It will have spent all its money picking up after YOU!

      Your post is full of immature rot…sorry but according to you I DO have the right to say that? Put it down to the fact that I am allowed to say ‘dumb things’ lol. Kid yourself more. Irresponsible, self-centred git! Oops sorry again…but you did say I must have the right to choose all on my own,  whatever the outcome? Thanks.

      The only thought-provoking thing you asked was to find if steps were being taken to introduce a drinking licence. Not a bad idea. It would be good for all drinkers to be part of the solution to harms they can cause, same as it would be good for all pokies gamblers to be licensed as well. Keeps the under-aged and excluded out. . Drinkers and gamblers, like drivers and weekend fishermen all need to wake up to the fact that their recreations cause harms to others, not just themselves. It amuses me that you seem to believe that WE should pay for YOUR folly any more than we no doubt already have to?

    • MarK says:

      08:18am | 28/04/11

      ”  .And what is so new about the coalition being big money’s bitch?”

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

      Err who is small money then?

      Is Big Money a relation to Big Tobacco and Big Mining? Does Big Gambling get a guernsey too?

      Is there like an official Big Club where we can go and observe these Big’s in action.

      I guess they all holiday at the Big Banana (ucwatididthar?)

      Lucky we are a Big Country to fit all the Big’s we have in.

      Let us cut to the chase - time to ban Big. Conroy could probably filter it and undoubtedly there could be a Big Tax (maybe a Big New Tax on Big) to deal with this growing scourge.

    • Strictly Horses says:

      09:36am | 28/04/11

      Wow you’re amazing. Thats exactly what I meant! You’ve said it so much clearer.

      Just two questions then -
      1) in the history of Australia, which government introduced the greatest biggest tax on everything?
      GST - Liberals.
      2) In the history of Australia, which government presided over the greatest reduction in national re-investment of the new great big taxes they were taking?
      20 billion surplus Liberals.
      You know what a surplus is, right? Its taxes. A ‘surplus’ for a government happens when they take more tax than they needed, and dont give it back or re-invest it.

      But you’re right. I mean you used sarcasm. Sarcasm is king… much more effective than facts or reasoning.

    • Chamber Pot says:

      09:53am | 28/04/11

      Not surprising that you don’t acknowledge what everyone else already knows.
      That the coalition is chained to the bed of big business and lies on the filthy sheets providing services on request for cash.

    • MarK says:

      01:08pm | 28/04/11

      “Wow you’re amazing.”

      Yes. Yes.

      Inorite I am better than you. Much better at it actually.

      1. The Democrats - going on the premise that the Liberals blocked the CPRS tax as stated by the desperate here.

      2. Oh that would be Whitlam and Rudd close tie. You see they actually have nothing to show for the deficits.

      Anything else kid?

      Anything.

      Tell me who all these BIg people are again? And who are the Small? big is by reference and comparison isn’t it?

      “You know what a surplus is, right?”

      I heard about them. They are the things that mean you have balanced the books, spent taxpayers money wisely, provided a stable and sure environment for people to prosper in with little intervention and given the economy incentive to thrive.

      They are also something which the Labor party has never delivered.

      Ahhh the Labor party. Dreaming of a 2013 surplus. They can taste it. All that forward revenue they can book if only they get the great big new tax on “carbon” (sic) up. All that expenditure and bribes, errrrr compensation, to give back in the next year.

      Ahh the Labor party. Trying to get a surplus, just once for the family album, finding it hard to continue to justify a NBN as commercial.

      Can we play some more. This stuff is fun.

      Just remember I am better than you. Amazing in fact - trustori.

    • Notes form under the bridge says:

      01:49pm | 28/04/11

      Strictly Horses - play with this conservative troll at your peril.
      He is the only one with a score sheet and he will always come out on top.
      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA (sic)

    • Riviera says:

      01:57pm | 28/04/11

      “I am better than you” is one of the most insecure phrases in the English language. You have my pity, MarK.

      And Strictly Horses, the GST was a good move. Ask any economist, they will tell you so.

      As for surpluses, well… Surpluses are great if you’ve got sufficient infrastructure, but they’re indolent if you don’t. The major points of contention are “what constitutes infrastructure” and “whose responsibility is it to deliver it”. In the Howard government’s case, Costello was able to deliver frequent surpluses at the expense of hospitals, roads, and schools, all the while blaming the degradation on the state governments for being intransigent (which was both ironic and childish).

    • Horses says:

      06:38pm | 28/04/11

      Yes.. well..
      Returning to the actual point of the article, which was “a program to reduce problem gambling is good - and only opposed by coalition cynics for strictly, and ultimately doomed, political purposes”.. your rebuttal is.. Pokies are good because liberal liberal liberal, oy oy oy..???
      Get back to your fucking Alan Laws callback radio… he’ll tell you how right you are

    • Denny Crane says:

      08:21am | 28/04/11

      Interesting how the federal labor is interested in putting halts on poker machines.

      We have had up to recently 6 state labor parliaments and NOT 1 did anything to stop machines, of course they didnt it represents a huge revenue stream for them.

      Gillard is only discussing this option because she needs Wilikie to hold power, if this was a Labor policy why was it not mentioned in 2007, when Rudd came to power.

      Nothing is going to change except that should there be threshold on poker machines, state revenues will drop, so guess hat those who dont use them will have to pay more in tax to offset this.

      Clubs who invest back into kids sporting groups wont be able to, so parents will pay more for there kids to play sport, they wont be able to afford this, so child satys at home becomes obese.

      If the government was serious about stopping something why not ban smoking, hang on that effects there revenue directly.

    • Denny Crane says:

      08:21am | 28/04/11

      Interesting how the federal labor is interested in putting halts on poker machines.

      We have had up to recently 6 state labor parliaments and NOT 1 did anything to stop machines, of course they didnt it represents a huge revenue stream for them.

      Gillard is only discussing this option because she needs Wilikie to hold power, if this was a Labor policy why was it not mentioned in 2007, when Rudd came to power.

      Nothing is going to change except that should there be threshold on poker machines, state revenues will drop, so guess hat those who dont use them will have to pay more in tax to offset this.

      Clubs who invest back into kids sporting groups wont be able to, so parents will pay more for there kids to play sport, they wont be able to afford this, so child satys at home becomes obese.

      If the government was serious about stopping something why not ban smoking, hang on that effects there revenue directly.

    • Bruce says:

      09:35am | 28/04/11

      Agree: As far as I am concerned they can ban pokies now. However, Labor is only backing gamblin reform to keep “wikies” support. There are a lot of people who enjoy playing ‘pokies’ just the way it is at the moment and they come from supporters of both sides of politics. Just go into any club or pub and ask around. This is why it is going to be a difficult issue for both parties. Gamblers vote !!

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      08:24am | 28/04/11

      Nick, like the majority of politicians and all politicians who look for popular causes to score a few brownie points, you make me want to throw up.
      You and your ilk created the problem however today in the list of important jobs needed to be done by politicians this comes in at about number 77.
      Get on with important stuff and stop wasting our time with this crap.

    • nossy says:

      08:29am | 28/04/11

      It doesnt surprise me Nick that you have revealed to us all a messy divided unguided Coalition. Under Abbott they have lost their way big time. As for the pokie issue they are all at sea like headless chooks. What the Coalition need is a decent leader ASAP - someone like Turnbull who lets not forget only lost the leadership by 1 vote - and Fran Bailey was absent from that vote and she said had she been there Abbott would not hab egot her vote ! Bring Turnbull back to the Lib leadership ASAP Liberals and give us all some sensible policies and sensible leadership !

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      08:36am | 28/04/11

      Nick
       
      1. Any machine must only be able to play a ‘‘winnning tune’’ if it is a net win. The music is the most addictive part of the machine. 
       
      2. Limit any machine to 5 lines. Currently you can play 25 lines (or more for all I know) and bet 20 or more credits per line. This means you can lose $10 or more per bet. Get the maximum bet amount down to $1. And don’t let the pokie barons tell you it cannot be done. It is just software.

    • Rosie says:

      08:51am | 28/04/11

      Mr Xenophon, I use to have a lot of respect for you because of your consistent stance against pokie machine addicted gamblers. I thought and admired that you cared deeply about the families of these gamblers, gambling all the house keeping money, leaving starving families. When I saw your article I presumed straight away it would be about that, instead it was an attack on the Coalition and Stephen Ciobo’s article on Punch.

      It is rather sad to read that you had to use the Coalition and Stephen Ciobo’s article as credibility for your Wilkie support.

      You say that the Coalition’s stance on pokie machines is all about power. Isn’t politics all about power for without it you can’t achieve much? At the moment all that power is with Gillard’s Labor Party and the self serving Wilkie who is behaving like a Prima Donna because of the deal he made with Gillard.

      “Coalition drive a wedge between Wilkie and the Labor Party” so what???? What about you in the senate Mr Xenophon??? Oh yes when whatever issue Wilkie is on about, by July when it gets to the Senate it won’t will go through with flying colours. So really the purpose of your article was to attack the Coalition and seek approval from the public that you and Wilkie’s stance on Pokies is all about your second last paragraph which I think is a “scare line.”

      “It’ll be the children who go hungry, the small businesses that are robbed, and loved ones who suicide because these unsafe product weren’t made safer.”

      You and Wilkie have completely forgotten that to fix the problem of any addiction, those addicted have to first admit from the heart they need help and that they are 200% certain families, friends and politicians like yourself and Wilkie will support them to seek that help. Politicians should make sure that “the help” is there for them.

      Humans should be responsible for their well being but when addiction comes into the equation, it is not right to blame the product which is exactly what you are doing. If it was the case why don’t you ban all the products that will cause people to become addicted to. eg alcohol, cigarettes pokie machines, food that will cause obseity etc

      I am sick and tired of being punished for those that don’t have the sense to realize how important it is to take responsibilty of their well being. “I hate watching TV adds on what cigarettes can do to one’s health! That is my opinion and I have the right to say it so is Stephen Ciobo.

    • The Harass says:

      12:33pm | 28/04/11

      Rosie

      What part of Nick caring deeply about the families of these gamblers, gambling all the house keeping money, leaving starving families is it so difficult for you coalition supporters to understand.
      The coalition has no policies on this, they only have NO for a policy.
      Pretty handy really. Just join that with some slogans with STOP and great big new TAX and you have an opposition endorsed by the lunatic fringe that will firmly stay in opposition
      Enjoy opposition Rosie, it suits you.

    • Andrew says:

      03:30pm | 28/04/11

      Sorry Rosie, he is not the love child of Tony Abbott. However, I hear that Barnaby has applied for tthe position.

      Nick X has had a consistent position on Poker Machines and nothing has changed. He has also had a consistent position on people that attack him and his issues, nothing has changed.

    • Libby Mitchell says:

      12:13am | 29/04/11

      Rosie sorry…but you really have got the wrong take on the pokies reforms and so have many others obviously. They are NOT all about problem gamblers. They are ALSO about harms to innocent people that problem gambling causes…and business responsibility to ensure that it meets consumer safety demands of our new consumer laws?

      HOW can you DARE to place all of the onus on the ‘individual’ for ‘responsibility’ when an extremely powerful business like the gambling industry is allowed to act so ‘irresponsibly’ to then cause consumer harms?

      Our new Australian Consumer Laws specifically state that ALL consumers MUST be given a transaction record by businesses. The pokies industry has had years of warning on this matter and STILL it defies our laws! Pokies cannot produce receipts and the gambling industry refuses the card system that makes it possible to provide consumers with a record of their spending.

      A transaction record has 2 very important uses. It helps if a consumer is ripped off and wants to make a legal claim. It also helps ALL consumers to make responsible budgeting decisions, since we plan our spending by checking what we have spent. To not provide a transaction record denies consuemrs their rights.

      Responsible consumers all need a spending record when they make significant purchases. That way they can slow down, if they splurge, then see their credit card blown, for example. Responsible consumers reign in their spending. No wonder pokies gamblers over-spend so much…they get no record of their pokies spending and they tend to forget what they did spend.

      Why not go and tell the gambling industry that it HAS to check our new consumer laws and then MUST ABIDE by them? That would be ‘responsible’...yes?You have no right to be ‘sick and tired of being punished’ and then blame pokies gamblers. Blame the gambling industry that does not oby the law.  If it did… we might not have harmed pokies gambling consumers.

    • N8 says:

      09:08am | 28/04/11

      Just a thought bubble here, and I am not sure weather I agree with it or not, but I do find these “the other lot have no reasons they are just comic book villains” rants a bit hard to swallow, there are always two sides, and they are greyer than we like to think.

      Now bear with me on this, I am not saying that I agree I am just trying to analyse their thinking. If the coalition are thinking “Labor are screwing the country over in so many ways, if leaving pokies in place gets them out so we can fix this mess, then so be it” realistically that is a much more complicated issue.

      As an independent, you have the luxury of not having to make these sorts of decisions, if they really think that this issue may deliver them power then that makes it a decision between “do little evil now, for greater good later” or “do little good now, and allow greater evil to continue” and that is a much harder decision. My question to you senator would be what would you do with that choice?

    • Roger Crook says:

      09:17am | 28/04/11

      Remember what happened during the prohibition era in the United States?
      What next, on line betting?
      The TAB?
      Lotto, scratchies? I watched a bloke do $50.00 in the newsagents shop the other day. ’ A regular’, the girl said. ‘Does it a couple of times a week.’  We don’t have pokies in WA. Still have problem gamblers.
      The casinos? Close them down?
      ‘They’ have already had a go at ‘two up’ on Anzac Day. Should be banned, especially if drinking is involved as well. Drinking by war veterans will just not be tolerated. It’s bad for their health at their age.
      St Nick would be better employed carrying the flag for the homeless, the pensioners who are finding it more difficult by the day to pay the bills for food and the rapid increases in the charges from the now privately owned utilities.
      There are thousands of kids sleeping rough in every town. Nowhere to go, no hope.
      As for Wilkie? Forget him he can’t remember.
      Nick accuses the coalition of being power hungry. Why do I keep on thinking of the colour black and pots and kettles?

    • Roger the Pokie operator wannabee. says:

      04:07pm | 28/04/11

      Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good rant Roger

      As an example of problem gambling numbers in West Australia vs states with pokies, you may find this interesting.
      The prevalence of problem gambling for the Victorian adult population is 0.70%.
      The highest-spend activity by problem gamblers is poker machines or electronic gaming machines (EGMs) (64.14%), followed by table games – like blackjack, roulette and poker (11.21%), lotto/Powerball and pools (9.73%) and horse racing.

      West Australia had a substantially lower figures than those provided for other Australian jurisdictions. The two main factors cited for the relatively low incidence of problem gambling are the prohibition on poker machines in Western Australia and the fact that Western Australia restricts access to electronic gaming machines only to licensed casinos, with only a single such venue in operation in Western Australia.

      Looks a bit different to your rant when you plug a few facts into it.

    • Lapun says:

      09:20am | 28/04/11

      I find it very difficult to understand why the Pokies alone are the subject of the Wilkie/Xenophon movement.  Surely gambling as a whole should be the subject of this examination and in particular the constant advertising of betting establishments, together with the updating of odds offered, during almost all broadcast sport.  This constant bombardment on sports TV, gets not only to adults but to the young, and actively encourages gambling and will most likely bring gambling to people who never played, or are too young to get to play Pokies.
      At least the money wasted on Pokies goes into the coffers of the Club and benefits members (and the govt), but the online gambling benefits nobody other than the owners of the betting site.  Include control on this and I may even be with Wilkie/Xenophon.

    • Jo says:

      09:22am | 28/04/11

      Having lived with a poker machine addict for 23 years and posted a response to this article I am wondering why it has not been posted.
      I apologise if you didn’t receive it but I notice a comment from my partner has been published.
      In my opinion, I didn’t defame or use language which could not be printed but did disagree with some of Mr Xenophon comments.

    • Andrew says:

      09:44am | 28/04/11

      Enforce a 10% win rate with maximum win amount of say 5x and watch the pokies die.

    • Phill says:

      09:55am | 28/04/11

      What a crock.  RCG is there for a reason.  How about training your staff and actually enforcing it.  Similar to RSA it is there but rarely enforced.  No need to waste billions of dollars on something that is not required.  Properly trained staff that can refuse to admit people to gambling area’s if they are thought to have a problem.

    • FWG says:

      09:58am | 28/04/11

      If you want to see the results of problem and reckless gambling visit a town like Narrooma on the far south coast of N S W on pension or child endowment and dole day , we lived there for a few years and know what go,s on it,s an eye opener believe me and dont beleve the crap the pub and club crowd would have you beleve, it’s just that CRAP.f

    • NGS says:

      10:03am | 28/04/11

      Nick, you are in such an envious position, with the power you hold in the Senate, and you always appear to be a reasonable man, and you seem to attempt to hold this useless Government to some sort of standards and then you do the old roll over and support the most useless Government we have ever had. I feel there is another agenda in play and in a period of time you will be in some fancy position at taxpayers expense somewhere. In other words you have lost my trust now. You should be doing all in your power for the greater good, ie Australia, and removing the unrepresentative swill, otherwise you too will be seen as nothing more than another Oakshott or Windsor. We dont have any pokies in WA and we seem to be doing pretty well, so be a real man and insist on them being totally banned…you have the power.

    • Chris says:

      10:07am | 28/04/11

      How is the problem of gambling solely placed on the poker machine and not the gambler? As you believe. That’s what you can sort of call enabling behaviour, any gambling addict will take that as an excuse to gamble “O it’s not my fault I gamble away my families money and the money we use to feed our kids, it’s the poker machines fault for being colourful and addictive”. Are you completely stupid?!!

      Clearly you are a staunch labour supporter with the way you cut into the liberal party with this article. And they will probably block this move to grab power and then put in their own reform when they are in power to show off to the public about how good they are doing, it’s actually a pretty decent idea.
      It’ll be the children who go hungry, the small businesses that are robbed, and loved ones who suicide because these unsafe product weren’t made safer. What a load of shit!! Its because of the morons who use these machines that their kids will go hungry, its like that old saying, “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”.

    • Harry Prince says:

      05:59pm | 28/04/11

      clearly you don’t understand addiction.
      lucky man.
      clearly you are a conservative
      no compassion nor understanding.

    • Razor says:

      11:31am | 28/04/11

      Dear Senator Xenophon,

      Putting to one side for a moment the policy arguments.  Since when aren’t Political Parties allowed to weigh up the political implications of their policy decisions?

      You do it every day.  Why aren’t the Coalition, in this case, allowed to?  Do you have the sole right to make political judgements?

      Regards

      Razor

    • stevem says:

      11:55am | 28/04/11

      One man (Wilkie) has dictated government policy on this matter. He has made it very clear he will bring down the government if it does not introduce HIS pre-commitment card. He doesn’t care if it’s the best way to protect problem gamblers. He doesn’t care about the cost of implementation, the effectiveness or the practicality of his solution.

      I have no idea if the scheme will work, although it seems to have its loopholes. I’m sure there are studies and experts that should be consulted on these matters, but that would be an affront to Wilkie and cannot be pursued.

      By all accounts this will take years to implement as every machine in the country will need to be replaced. Would another strategy bring a quicker, cheaper and more effective result? I, once again, don’t know.

      Senator, you should be pursuing the best solution to the problem, rather than blindly supporting the pre-commitment card just because it is the one on offer today. If the wrong solution is chosen it will hurt more people than are protected.

    • Tails says:

      01:12pm | 28/04/11

      If poker machines are just a bit of fun/entertainment value, then why don’t they just charge people $15 to play them for an hour and have specific sesison times like at the movies. If players win a jackpot they can get a crappy toaster or a stuffed toy.
      Even hopelessly addicted people would only be able to do a few sessions a day and I’m pretty sure that after a while, the addiction (which comes form the thrill of the chase of the big win) would subside.
      Where there’s a will there’s a way people!

    • Craig says:

      02:01pm | 28/04/11

      Nick, can you please consider moving to Queensland so that I can vote for you?  You’re the best person in Parliament these days, by a long shot.

    • Sean C says:

      02:48pm | 28/04/11

      Poker machines are still a better deal than a lot of gambling options available online. Betting on a poker machine I know it’s a sure-fire loss, but I know my odds, and I cannot bet on credit. If I bet online on virtual pokies, I do not know my odds and I can only bet on credit. Consequently, if Wilkie gets his way, you will simply shift problem gambling into dimly lit bedrooms on the computer. International investors will then take what would otherwise be domestic tax revenue and company profits, and still leave governments with the bill for problem gambling. Hardly the most optimal outcome?

    • mikeymike says:

      03:01pm | 28/04/11

      WA - the No Pokies* state.  How did we dodge that particular bullet?


      *With the exception of Burswood casino.

    • Terry Wright says:

      04:56pm | 28/04/11

      It seems that readers here from both sides of politics generally agree on one issue - making us a nanny state is not what we want. That is the number one issue. The government and opposition should abide by the people’s wishes and keep the f*** out of our lives.

      That being said, freedom also comes with responsibility. To have the freedom to do what we want, we need to be responsible for our actions. BUT, being part of an advanced society that has the maturity for this freedom to operate, we must accept there are complex prerequisites that affect this situation including some side effects.

      Most of these side effects are due to inherent human nature or the type of activity e.g. addiction, potential injury, losing money etc. These side effects are not usually because people are “weak” or have “addictive personalities” but due to physical conditions we are born with e.g. chemical imbalances in the brain, problem genes, neurological disorders etc. There are also possible effects from a problematic environment or troubled childhood to consider.

      As a so called intelligent society who long for the freedom to do as we wish, we must get past political posturing, personal ideologies, religious obstructions and sheer ignorance that keeps us from progressing as an advanced race. Freedom is about choices and just as important is the acceptance of those choices.

      Some activities may be dangerous or addictive but in general, they only affect a very small group of people. As long as we accept this fact and build in support mechanisms, then the activity can be enjoyed by the bulk of those who participate. There should always be enough taxes/fees on the activity to fully fund the support mechanisms before the government commits to use the income elsewhere. This is vital.

      If regulated and managed properly, victimless, non-violent activities like drugs, alcohol, tobacco, gambling, prostitution, pornography, video games and even mountain climbing won’t hurt anyone except those participating. Why should the government (or anyone else) decide what is acceptable, what should have restrictions or what should be banned? If we have leaned anything through history, it’s that trying to stop adults from participating in victimless, non-violent activities ultimately causes more harm, more problems and costs more money than regulating them. And always without ever actually reducing participation or stopping an artificial black market that inevitably arises.

      Giving us -as free citizens- the choice to participate in so many different activities will mean that some people won’t like what others are doing. We have to learn to accept that some people have different desires and as long as it doesn’t affect others and remains within permissible boundaries, they should be free do do what they want. If we are mature enough to make informed decisions for ourselves without government intervention, then we should shut the f*** up about what activities others have chosen.

      To avoid the nanny state, we have to accept the sometimes harsh reality that comes with our freedom and put an end to some of the ignorant and arrogant comments like below:

      What a load of shit!! Its because of the morons who use these machines that their kids will go hungry, its like that old saying, “guns don’t kill people, people kill people”.
      -Chris 10:07am

      I am sick and tired of being punished for those that don’t have the sense to realize how important it is to take responsibilty of their well being. “I hate watching TV adds on what cigarettes can do to one’s health!
      -Rosie 8:51am

      there is nothing inherently dangerous about poker machines. They are not a drug. Most people can play poker machines with no adverse affects other than losing money.
      Completely different to heroin or any other addictive drug. By your logic, why isn’t smoking, eating fatty foods, driving cars or any other activity that causes deaths or injuries banned?
      -Tim 10:46am

      By your logic, we should not ban cocaine, ecstacy or heroin. If somebody is weak enough to allow themselves to be addicted to it then it is their worry, not ours.
      -Drew 10:13am

      And so on…

      Maybe, we need more comments like the following:

      Yep, kerry’s is the one to go to!

      The definition of a problem gambler is one who exhibits a particular pattern of behaviour. The US apparently refers to them as ‘pathological gamblers’.

      http://www.pc.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0003/95691/08-chapter5.pdf

      ‘If a person has some of the psychological behaviours consistent with ‘addiction’, including difficulties in controlling gambling, chasing losses, borrowing to gamble and the need to increase stimuli to maintain the same level of excitement, then they will be categorised as problem gamblers using most existing screens.’
      -persephone 10:26am

    • DocBud says:

      11:58pm | 28/04/11

      “After more than a decade in politics,’

      Strikes me, Nick, that what you mean is: “after a decade of thinking that being a politician gives me the right to interfere in every aspect of people’s lives.”

      In matters of personal choice, please just butt out and mind your own business, if I want to harm myself (in the opinion of others) that is my business. If I’m harming my immediate family, then deal with me as an individual, don’t apply a societal band aid.

    • Haraam Dogma says:

      12:19pm | 29/04/11

      Personally I believe pokies should be banned from pubs and go back to being the preserve of registered clubs. Pokies have caused the value of pubs to be artificially inflated, benefiting an ever decreasing group of companies that own pubs.

      The benefit to the community of having pokies in pubs as far as I can see is zero. Will some pubs go bust if pokies are removed ? Possibly but thats life, and given very very few are family owned now, it will mainly be companies that will need to suck it in. It may make a few people unemployed, but it will almost certainly benefit a similar group of problem gamblers.

      Its sad these days that the lobbyist with the biggest donation gets the politicians attention. The average voter, the community, is a very poor second.  This case is obviously exacerbated by a government addicted to gambling taxes, taxing the people in the community who can least afford it.

      I am not a nanny state advocate, however when and if I am three score years and ten and reflecting on my life, I wont be regretting not having gambled more. I suspect its not on anyone’s bucket list.

    • Luke says:

      10:45pm | 05/06/11

      Your great at creating talk on pokies nick…
      I would just like to see you do somethng… instead of discussing ideals over and over and over and over…

 

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