Prev
Next

Clive Palmer’s truth is really out there

Tory Shepherd

by Tory Shepherd

21 Mar 11:30am

Must Reads

The Punch is moving house - this is a caption

The Punch is moving house

385

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this? - this is a caption

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

122

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming” - this is a caption

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

251

Filed under: Cia, Clive Palmer, Conspiracy, Conspiracy Theories, Greenpeace, Greens, Mining

129 comments

Writer and activist Susan Sontag said: “I envy paranoids. They actually feel people are paying attention to them”.

Trust no one

People were quick to call mining giant Clive Palmer a ‘crackpot’ and a ‘nutjob’ for his bizarre claim that the Greens are a tool of the CIA being used to undermine mining. And they are wacky claims. But the human mind is an amazing thing and comes up with sophisticated ways to protect itself from the real world. He’s not simply ‘wacky’.

Conspiracy theories are a protective mechanism.

9/11 Truthers – who believe that either there was an enormous cover up or active complicity in the September 11 bombings by the US Government - go to great lengths to convince themselves that we don’t live in a world where terrorists can so quickly kill thousands.

JFK conspiracists similarly believe that greater powers must have been behind the assassination, because it seems impossible to them that a lone gunman could take down a US President.

UFO believers find no shortage of evidence for beliefs that reassure them that we are not alone.

I am proud to announce that I’ve recently had a conspiracy theory developed about me. One of the men’s rights extremist sites has investigated and found that I’m involved with a White Ribbon Ambassador and that I ‘instigated’ The Punch to get Health Minister Tanya Plibersek and Melinda Tankard-Reist ‘on board’ … some sort of grand plan.

People who struggle to deal with criticism can turn to conspiracies to both discredit their opponents and to reassure themselves that only shady operatives with vast networks of contacts and enormous resources could possibly attack them.

As I wrote last year, conspiracy theories can also help people feel they are Fox Mulders, part of a small group of people who know the truth.

In Voodoo Histories: How conspiracy theory has shaped modern history, David Aaronovitch says conspiracy theories are “paradoxically comforting”:

They suggest that there is an explanation, that human agencies are powerful and that there is order rather than chaos. This makes redemption possible… what if paranoia is actually the sticking plaster that we fix to an altogether more painful wound? That of feeling ourselves to be of no importance whatsoever, and our lives (and especially our deaths) of little real significance except to ourselves.

The problem of our age is that we now search for meaning via Google and we can confirm anything we want to online. URLs are the new evidence.

Clive Palmer’s conspiracy is amusing, but not harmless. Every time someone with influence squanders reason, a little truth puppy dies.

In How Mumbo Jumbo Conquered the World, Frances Wheen writes:

The sleep of reason brings forth monsters, and the past two decades have produced monsters galore. Some are manifestly sinister, others seem merely comical… cumulatively, however, the proliferation of obscurantist bunkum and the assault on reason are a menace to civilisation…

Clive Palmer’s kooky ideas that Greenpeace and the Greens are tools of the CIA are not just dodgy, they’re dangerous. And clear proof that that the Greys have got to him.

The truth is on Twitter: @ToryShepherd

Most commented

129 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • James F says:

      05:18pm | 21/03/12

      Rockerfellers and other US Left foundations DO subsidise Greenpeace, that is not a conapiracy theory.

    • RustyNutz says:

      05:28pm | 21/03/12

      Has anyone actually CHECKED who funds Greenpeace?? Commenting AFTER you check is actually the smart thing to do. Otherwise it is mere opinion.

    • Esteban says:

      06:00pm | 21/03/12

      Forget about investigating the enviromental impact of coal what is the enviromental impact of eating all those fish eggs.

    • DOB says:

      06:06pm | 21/03/12

      James F, RustyNutz, Maxwell Smart99, the claim was that the CIA was funding Rockefeller to implement a plan to destroy the Australian coal industry. Collectively you guys miss the point by a few million miles. Youre probably all CIA agents posting here to try and cover your tracks (dont bother trying to work out the joke in that sentence - it will probably only confuse you boys).

    • Chris L says:

      06:19pm | 21/03/12

      If Clive being the LNP’s biggest patron doesn’t give him control of the party why would we assume that donations from the US to Greenpeace is a CIA conspiracy?

    • RustyNutz says:

      09:37am | 22/03/12

      DOB So you’re OK about the oil multi billionaire Rockerfellers funding the environmental movement to stop coal mines in Australia and have never asked why?  The CIA claim may be loopy but you missed the relevance of the Rockerfeller Foundation’s interest in slowing Australia’s coal production. Clive may be a bit extreme at times but the advantages to the Rockerfellers of stopping Clive Palmer has never been explained.  Its the elephant in the room, no-one wants to talk about.

    • Charles Namok says:

      01:57pm | 23/03/12

      On June 29 2011 senator brown was talking about a one world government, to me it was like George Bush senior all aver again, it made me sick, and Kevin Rudd, for once we had a politician over the rails and for him to come back realising his mistakes would have been the best thing. Julia Gillard to me talks like she,s trying to brainwash me and Toni Abbott is like the bloke at the pub who starts a bit of rubbish and then takes off when the fight starts.

    • Wazza says:

      11:29am | 21/03/12

      I agree, absolutley mental, he is a nutter with a big cheque book, but he is unelected and of very little real influence.
      There are however some members of parliment of a certain colour red or green (its all relative) that dont find it an outrageous position to believe that the USA attacked itself on Sep 11 2012.

      Reply

    • Swingdog says:

      11:51am | 21/03/12

      The USA attacked itself in the future? Really? Is this a conspiracy or do you know “the truth”?

    • Al says:

      11:52am | 21/03/12

      Gee, that would be a bit hard considering we haven’t reached that date yet (Sep 11 2012).
      I trust you meant the attack that occured all those years ago rather than one this year.
      The majority of arguments put forward by the ‘truthers’ can be ignored once you look into the physics and evidence put forward, still had nothing to do with Iraq though, for some reason the US seems reluctant to do their ‘punish the enemy’ thing against the Arab nations.

    • Cookie Monster says:

      12:56pm | 21/03/12

      Al - in actual fact it’s the other way around - if you look at the physics the story that has been put forward doesn’t hold up.

    • fml says:

      01:03pm | 21/03/12

      You better hope nothing happens on that day Wazza.

    • Wazza says:

      01:30pm | 21/03/12

      No i’m not a prophet, i have Errol Flyn fingers.

      2001

    • Sting says:

      03:51pm | 21/03/12

      @Cookie Monster

      Of course you’re wrong. The 9/11 truthers have been shot down by numerous sane, independent and credible sources. Having recently had this argument with a “truther” I can surmise how this will go…I post a stack of links to scientific publications, news agencies, government and other independent sources which you’ll rejected out of hand while you’ll post links to conspiracy theorists using vague, bad and incomplete science.

      Rational people balance the weight of evidence and conclude that there was no 9/11 conspiracy while irrational people will believe what they want to believe based on little or no evidence.

    • Chris L says:

      06:25pm | 21/03/12

      I like Jesse Ventura’s approach to 911. He can’t be goaded into offering a theory on what he thinks really happened, he just asks questions like “Why did the buildings collapse at a freefall rate?”.

      His experience in demolitions gives him some fairly convincing insight into how a building should look when it collapses.

      Maybe Clive should have simply said “Where do greenpeace get their funding?” and active imaginations around the country could have filled in the blanks for him.

    • Robert Smissen of country SA says:

      11:30am | 21/03/12

      Can You prove he’s wrong? ? ?I didn’t think so

      Reply

    • Bill Door says:

      11:48am | 21/03/12

      The burden of proof is on those making the claim.

      I believe that the CIA is behind Tony Abbott’s entire political career. Make Abbott PM and them make Australia a state of the USA.

      Prove me wrong?

    • #comeonclivewhereisthemoney says:

      11:51am | 21/03/12

      Palmer needs to prove he is right - that is the funny thing about conspiracy theories the people who start them need to actually prove them.  So far - not much.

    • Swingdog says:

      11:52am | 21/03/12

      I believe that country SA is a featureless, cultureless desert. Can you prove me wrong? ? ? I didn’t think so.

    • old fart says:

      12:34pm | 21/03/12

      geez Bill they dont need abbott for that we already are a state of the usa

    • Super D says:

      05:34pm | 21/03/12

      Well as Federal Labor MP Peter Garrett used to sing:

      “Divided world the CIA
      Who controls the issue”

      As I pointed out in another post if a left wing greenie says it its ok - the same way as only a feminist can get away with saying the PM has a fat arse.

    • Chris L says:

      06:28pm | 21/03/12

      ... and ridiculing people on the left is something you’d never do, eh SuperD?

      Face it, what Clive said was pretty ridiculous and it wasn’t a song lyric.

    • Lordy McSmitey says:

      08:27am | 22/03/12

      Hey Robert Smissen: I’m God. The actual God. My homies Vishnu and Zeus sometimes call me “Jovie”, those wacky guy you know?

      Anyway, prove I’m not a diety. Hell, prove I exist - or don’t. It’s not like I’ve ever answered your prayers, right?

    • Terence says:

      08:40am | 22/03/12

      At least he was right about the Rockerfeller foundation funding side of his statement, so maybe he’s right about the CIA as well.
      It’s all so easy for us to redicule, and deny someones opinion when you either don’t like the guy or have an interest in proving him wrong!

      Also I think that whoever bombed the twin towers in New York got the idea from the movie Escape from New York, but proving that would be difficult wouldn’t it?

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      09:25am | 22/03/12

      No conspiracy intended, but it seems logical to bring the twin towers down by controlled demolition rather than risk a greater catastrophe, i.e. sideways fall over a much larger foot print.
      Clive Palmer’s comment would be farcical if money wasn’t a substitute for intelligence. Give a bloke a million bucks and he matters. Take away the millions he owns and Palmer is nothing more than a mouthy dill no one listens to. That’s why what Gina Rineheart’s inherited money says matters and that what Dr Tim Flannery PhD says is regarded as idiocy - “money maketh the man; intelligence and education maketh a university trained moron.” One of Australia’s faults is “university trained idiots and moneyed sages.”

    • Brisbane Bryn says:

      11:39am | 21/03/12

      In a statement, Greenpeace senior campaigner John Hepburn rejected Mr Palmer’s comments as “ludicrous”.
      He said Greenpeace would not accept money from any government, corporation or secret service

      http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-03-21/carr-attacks-palmer-conspiracy-theory/3902626

      I think the addition of the comma between the words government and corporation is incorrect. The Greens are bank roled by a number of corporations and got Bob Brown out of bankruptcy.

      Reply

    • Robert P says:

      05:24pm | 21/03/12

      But they do accept money from ‘Foundations’ like the Rockerfeller Foundation, Turner Foundation  
      John D. & Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation  
      V. Kann Rasmussen Foundation   David & Lucile Packard Foundation  
      Blue Moon Fund
      Trust for Mutual Understanding  
      Firedoll Foundation  
      Panaphil Foundation  
      Rockefeller Family Fund etc etc

    • Tim says:

      05:27pm | 21/03/12

      The Greens and Greenpeace are separate organisations.  I understand that Greenpeace does not accept donations from corporations, but The Greens may very well, depending on the type of corporation and the business it is in.

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:42am | 21/03/12

      I have that poster! Minus Clive Palmer, of course. It’s not actually the same as the one in Fox Mulder’s office.

      But I do believe there is some credibility in the JFK assassination conspiracy.

      Oswald was described in army documents as a “poor to average” shot yet we are required to believe that he pulled off 3 shots with a .22 calibre bolt action WW2 Mannlicher-Cacarno (sp??) in 5.66 seconds from a distance of 50-70m.

      I find that a little bit hard to believe.

      Then there is the magic bullet theory developed by the Warren Commission. Rather difficult with a .22 calibre gun at that distance and then even more difficult that the bullet comes through that with only a dent down the one side.

      Reply

    • SimonFromLakemba says:

      12:04pm | 21/03/12

      The Mafia were into it for sure. Jack Ruby, Traffacante, Marcello etc.

      He wasn’t shot after the event for no reason.

    • chopper knows says:

      12:20pm | 21/03/12

      The same could be said of Martin Bryant and the Port Arthur Massacre, apparently he had an IQ of a wombat and was able to professional sniper in the head 35 or so people within a certain amount of time that not even a professional Army Sniper could muster, explain that?

    • Max Redlands says:

      12:21pm | 21/03/12

      Tubesteak. Agree with your comemnts re JFK.

      For mine the idea that HaOswald acted alone is the “conspiracy” in this situtaion and a very succesful one it has been.

    • subotic doesn't want to believe says:

      12:36pm | 21/03/12

      Oswald was a marine. He was a trained marksman. He was a perfect killer.

      Marines can do anything.

    • Tubesteak says:

      01:23pm | 21/03/12

      Simon and Max
      The conspiracy certainly is deep

      Chopper
      Can’t speak to the Martin Bryant massacre but it sounds intriguing

      Subotic
      He wasn’t really a marine. He tried but failed miserably and was, for all intents and purposes, booted out

    • Jack says:

      01:26pm | 21/03/12

      It wasn’t ‘a 22’. It was a 6.5x54mm, closer to a .270 cal, which with 162gr cartridge packs about 1900ft/lbs - as opposed to the 104ft/lbs of a 40gr .22LR

    • damien says:

      01:27pm | 21/03/12

      50-70m is nothing with a rifle. I’m no marksman and I have hit a golfball on a string from 100m. ‘poor to average shot’ in army terms is likely to be someone who cant hit the golfball with every shot.

      Hitting a person from that distance with years of training would be a piece of cake.

    • Tubesteak says:

      02:19pm | 21/03/12

      Jack
      All the documents I’ve read shows that it was a .22 calibre

      damien
      No. He was a poor shot by any standards. Even army sharp-shooters were tested with the gun in calm conditions and their best time was 8 seconds with much less accuracy. The scope of the actual rifle also made it inaccurate.

    • freethrow says:

      04:21pm | 21/03/12

      Bill Hicks explains pretty logically why the JFK assasination needs a littles more investigating…

    • Bill Door says:

      11:43am | 21/03/12

      Clive Palmer is Australia’s Herman Cain.

      “I don’t have facts to back this up, but I happen to believe that these demonstrations are planned and orchestrated to distract from the failed policies of the Obama administration.”

      Reply

    • Joan says:

      11:47am | 21/03/12

      `Clive Palmer’s kooky ideas that Greenpeace and the Greens are tools of the CIA are not just dodgy, they’re dangerous` Dangerous?? Hardly. Who`s paranoid ?  Those that are not paranoid know that Bob Brown and Gillard, Swan and Co are the real danger to Australian economy - not the speech made by Palmer.

      Reply

    • Steve says:

      01:27pm | 21/03/12

      Swann thinking he is the worlds best treasurer is dangerous.

    • Craig of North Brisbane says:

      02:12pm | 21/03/12

      People who can’t even spell the Treasurer’s name correctly having a platform to attack him, that’s the real danger.

    • fitter says:

      03:43pm | 21/03/12

      The articles about Clive Palmer, not the Labour Party Joan. How on earth did you managed to insert Gillard and Swan into the issue ? What is suprising however, is your post didnt use the word communist/Juliar/or waste, that would have been equally relevant to the debate.

    • Terry2 says:

      06:39am | 22/03/12

      Mr Palmer is not silly. He wants the LNP to have a resounding victory and any green preferences going to Labor (particularly in Ashgrove) detract from this. Clive was able to float this conspiracy theory without spending a cent - the media swallowed hook,line & sinker - and undoubtedly some will be influenced by it and, with optional preferential voting, the the objective is to have folk ‘’ vote one LNP”

    • Dieter Moeckel says:

      09:34am | 22/03/12

      Terry 2 makes a good point. When elections are finely poised a swing of even .5% can be instrumental and to swing Green preferences in Ashgrove could help Newman across the line.
      Any conspiracy of CIA influence in Australia has been used to good effect for example Whitlam - Frazer and now a theory that Rudd was deposed due to US aka CIA pressure because Rudd was too close to China.

    • Economist says:

      11:48am | 21/03/12

      I disagree, I don’t think Clive Palmer’s ideas are dangerous. They’re only dangerous if he advocates violence or coercion as a means of dealing with them. Throwing money at it is not an issue. While a politician receiving the money no doubt would be courteous and listen, they won’t necessarily enact what Palmer wants or believe him. The fact is despite Palmer’s influence and power there are those more powerful and influential, perhaps he feels he’s lost a bit of his power.

      I’m starting to wonder about this constant criticism of individuals and their ideas, just as others have highlighted with the Kony guy. Overall I wouldn’t put them in the bad guy category, but the self-interested category and self obsessed category, but to some degree who isn’t.

      Reply

    • year of the dragon says:

      11:57am | 21/03/12

      Good comments Economist.

      Just as conspiracy theorists tend to be prone to hyperbole, so do those who constantly find ideas “dangerous”.

      Palmer’s ideas in relation to the CIA and the Greens are pretty out there but hardly dangerous.

      Ideas only become dangerous when they start to become implemented. For instance, the damage that has already been caused by the ideas of those that believe that humans have a greater impact on climate change than all of the other impacts over the history of the planet.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      12:22pm | 21/03/12

      I think it’s dangerous that there’s an increasing amount of bullshit around, that the internet allows it to spread so easily. People like Clive Palmer have enormous influence and when they spout conspiracy theories they’re giving them credence. More people distrust the way the world it, start to see plots everywhere.

      I do think it’s dangerous every time the truth loses out. It makes it that much easier for the nutters to creep in.

    • Economist says:

      01:30pm | 21/03/12

      YotD You had me at Good Comments then lost me at the Climate change comment.

      Tory, Agree about the BS, but in this case the nutters creeping is unlikely given that he’s been heavily lampooned. So he’s is one of many with some pretty bizarre views with influence and their will always be people willing to listen and accept, take Rick Santorum he’s a presidential candidate.  From my POV it’s how he uses that influence and at this stage I haven’t seen Clive doing anything that I would consider dangerous.

      Given that he’s a serial litigant, if he starts to throwing writs around to stop people from talking then that will be of concern to me.  Or given that it’s no secret that he’s pro China over pro- US if he starts leaking to the chinese LNP policies before they’re announced, given his relationship, that would be of concern and as stated if he advocated a violent response.

      Isn’t one persons truth another persons lie. or something like that.

    • david says:

      01:34pm | 21/03/12

      @ Tory

      ‘Clive Palmer’s kooky ideas…are not just dodgy, they’re dangerous’

      It appears that you are speaking specifically about the danger of Clive Palmer’s ideas, not the vague defense you’ve since offered in reply.

      Dodgy, indeed.

    • Rosie says:

      02:02pm | 21/03/12

      Where the hell are we?

      To now say that Clive is inciting danger because of some kind of conspiracy theory he has proclaimed against a minor political party to save his companies and the people he employs is totally ridiculous!

      I was almost convinced with Tory’s article, until I read this; “Clive Palmer’s conspiracy is amusing, but not harmless. Every time someone with influence squanders reason, a little truth puppy dies.”

      Please make up your mind, is Palmer’s conspiracy just amusing so not worth worrying about or is it too dangerous that we must call the experts to probe into it? We all would be better off if we sought an outcome by having opposing sides debating the issue rather than claiming it was some kind of insanity on Palmer’s part. We can begin right here with some civility!

      I just wonder if Clive Palmer wasn’t a billionaire who has decided to align himself to a political party, who happens to be in opposition but ahead in the polls to win the next elections would he have this much attention?

      This came to my attention and got me thinking about conspiracy theories! Believe or not to believe! “How can a creationist and a scientist discuss evolution when one simply denies the very premise.” Same goes for climate change!

    • subotic says:

      02:08pm | 21/03/12

      @Tory, there *aren’t* plots everywhere?

    • Little Joe says:

      02:11pm | 21/03/12

      Oh Tory,

      He is an attention seeker, and you play up to his ego by writing this column ..... and make money from advertising that is found on this page.

      If the media ignored it ..... it would all go away.

    • SteveKAG says:

      03:04pm | 21/03/12

      Just more left wing journo’s trying to protect their mates…......Tory and Malcolm are poster childs for left wing politics….

      Tory he has no influence whatsoever….......this article and Malcolm’s are just silly attempts to portray the coalition as nutters.

      Move on, it is such a nothing story.

    • Chris L says:

      06:41pm | 21/03/12

      “he has no influence whatsoever” - he just donates to the LNP for shits and giggles.

    • M says:

      11:48am | 21/03/12

      Tory, I’d delete this piece immediatly if I were you. You don’t want to leave a trail that they can use to find you.

      Reply

    • Arthur says:

      11:49am | 21/03/12

      Oh yeah. That’s reasonable to say a guy worth multi billions doesn’t have it together.

      More like it would be he’s right, or his motives we don’t understand.

      Reply

    • lishy says:

      01:21pm | 21/03/12

      Clive is a very unhealthy man and clearly his arteries are so clogged its depriving his brain of oxygen. Reading your comments about left wing politics, I think you need to get yours checked as you actually have no idea what you are talking about. If you actually want to bag the opposition with credibility, you know you have to go and read all their policies and arguments - not usually within a ‘righties’ personality type.

    • lishy says:

      01:22pm | 21/03/12

      Clive is a very unhealthy man and clearly his arteries are so clogged its depriving his brain of oxygen. Reading your comments about left wing politics, I think you need to get yours checked as you actually have no idea what you are talking about. If you actually want to bag the opposition with credibility, you know you have to go and read all their policies and arguments - not usually within a ‘righties’ personality type.

    • Zip Code says:

      02:01pm | 21/03/12

      Palmer is a gulible fool,he believed Gillard was telling the Truth when she said there would be no Carbon Tax,just goes to show even Billionaires make mistakes

    • Formerly says:

      04:14pm | 21/03/12

      Just ask anyone who knows him and they can confirm that he is not all there. Very clever but seriously screwed up. His employees used to have to (perhaps still have to) leave the office and have certain work-related discussions in the street, could not discuss certain issues over the phone and had to send emails from internet cafes using a host of aliases because BHP and Rio Tinto had bugged Mineralogy’s offices, tapped their phones and were intercepting emails. Of course, in his more lucid moments, all of that would be forgotten. Clive is a classic paranoid and a narcissist.

    • SD says:

      11:51am | 21/03/12

      Can’t wait for all the hard core righties backing up his every word. You really need to look at yourselves, no matter how wrong or far out or stupid one of your heroes, you back them no matter what! Come on, leave SOME room for reason ! Yea, the poor billionaires are doing it tough, let’s all chip in and help them..

      Reply

    • Arthur says:

      12:05pm | 21/03/12

      “hard core righties”....

      Do you mean those of us smart enough to recognise an intelligent person backed up by the money he’s made for himself.

      As opposed to those that have achieved nothing other than convince idiots to vote for them.

      Right or left….You should use

    • Arthur says:

      12:19pm | 21/03/12

      “no matter how wrong or far out or stupid one of your heroes”

      The Labor party?

      Clive Palmer has the ability to learn, you don’t seem to SD.

      Left wing thinking is always short term, ill thought out stupidity that always goes wrong. Look at the western world overseas. It’s imploding because of left wing politics. If you couldn’t work it out for yourself that left wing politics is really dumb, what more evidence do you need than what’s occurred overseas?

      I’m not saying right wing or capitalism is correct either, there’s plenty wrong with it, but left wing stuff is so ridiculous it defies logic.

    • SD says:

      12:21pm | 21/03/12

      Arthur, Becoming PM or an MP even, is achieving nothing is it? You’re a harsh judge..

    • Arthur says:

      12:52pm | 21/03/12

      “Becoming PM or an MP even”

      All you need is to be able to talk BS, convince idiots, and oh, of course you must be anointed by the party.

      Hardly an achievement. I think anyone with half a brain could be a politician, but really, who would?

    • Esteban says:

      01:46pm | 21/03/12

      SD. I don’t view politics as something like the olympics where working hard and being selected is an achievement. Medal or not you will always be an olympian.

      Being elected to parliament is not an achievent it is an opportunity to achieve.

      It might well be that some people join unions and a political party with the end game being to “achieve” a cushy seat in parliament. These types of polititions are to be discouraged or held to account to achieve something once elected.

      Business people achieve things despite Government interference.

    • Channelling Erick says:

      12:12pm | 21/03/12

      “One of the men’s rights extremist sites”

      My ears are burning.

      Reply

    • Craig says:

      02:13pm | 21/03/12

      I googled it. Apparently there’s a site called “what men are saying about women”, run by someone called Christian J. I’m sure he’s pleased about the publicity, but I’m not sure what relevance he has to anything at all, whether masculinism or Clive Palmer.

      I can only assume that Tory is giving us a demonstration of spreading bullshit via the internet.

    • Tony H says:

      12:20pm | 21/03/12

      Alot of the anti-nuclear movement in the 70’s and 80’s received funding from the Soviet Union, I guess if you asked those organisations about it back then they would have claimed that it was a ridiculous suggestion .

      While Palmers comments seem outlandish I have no doubt there are politicised public servants both here and in the U.S. that may not have the nations best interests as their number one priority.

      Reply

    • Esteban says:

      12:20pm | 21/03/12

      Of course it is stupid to say the CIA is behind the Greens. It is quite clear that it is the communists who are behind the Greens.

      Reply

    • MarkS says:

      02:33pm | 21/03/12

      Yes, but given the level of incompetence shown by the CIA over the years are the commies behind the CIA?

    • Esteban says:

      03:35pm | 21/03/12

      MarkS. Thanks mate the pieces are starting to come together for me now!

    • CJ says:

      12:23pm | 21/03/12

      How would we all feel if Wayne Swan or Tony Abbott made the claims Palmer did? Really, just imagine their immediate electoral and personal destruction. But billionaire boy keeps on gibbering and some people keep listening.

      Reply

    • Al says:

      12:23pm | 21/03/12

      Rich does not equal right.

      Just take a look at the catholic church.

      Reply

    • Onlooker says:

      12:32pm | 21/03/12

      Tory I first heard of this watching Paul Murray Live, I thought..gee I have heard this wrong. So I checked to make sure I was not having a stroke or hearing spasm. Nope I heard correctly, after I had laughed for about 5 minutes straight I wondered how many gullible Australians would listen to that codswallop? And I would like to know what The Americans think of all of this? they must think we are stark raving mad. here is a hint for Clive..call a spade a spade mate but don’t call it a spade when its a washing machine! or people will look at you strangely

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      12:33pm | 21/03/12

      Do a search and find the site.  There is some serious loopiness going on.

      Reply

    • Blusterer says:

      12:38pm | 21/03/12

      He forgot to include the saucer people..

      Reply

    • old fart says:

      12:40pm | 21/03/12

      I think the greys alread have him, he used to have such a believable hair colour not so long ago

      Reply

    • subotic smoking man says:

      01:02pm | 21/03/12

      1st it was Assange.

      Now it’s Palmer.

      Who next?

      KONY….

    • Gomez12 says:

      12:50pm | 21/03/12

      “One of the men’s rights extremist sites has investigated and found that I’m involved with a White Ribbon Ambassador and that I ‘instigated’ The Punch to get Health Minister Tanya Plibersek and Melinda Tankard-Reist ‘on board’ … some sort of grand plan”

      Honest Question - is it true?

      It’s not hard to see how the conclusion might be arrived at:
      You’ve banned Erick, you are a proud feminist and publicly push that barrow, you deride the MRA’s, you are a “fellow traveller” of Tankard-Reist and certainly have enough pull at the Punch to get them “on board” and there’s certainly nothing “out there” that you may be involved with a white-ribon ambassador (I imagine you would have had the opportunity to meet several after all, and the heart is a fickle beast).

      In fact it seems more like a plausible reading of events than any sort of outlandish “Conspiracy Theory”.

      Reply

    • Warren says:

      01:56pm | 21/03/12

      You might want to read what some of these MRA sites have to say about women let alone Tory to get a handle on where they are coming from. The author of one site thinks feminists want men locked up in concentration camps. The degree of venom and lunacy has to be read to be believed and you only have to publish one comment they don’t like and you’ll get banned on the spot. Erick has his day in the sun and more.

    • Sting says:

      01:58pm | 21/03/12

      “you may be involved with a white-ribon ambassador (I imagine you would have had the opportunity to meet several after all, and the heart is a fickle beast).”

      You mean she may be involved with an organisation that advocates against violence against women? They must be evil! Quick call Erick, someone supports NOT being violent towards women, that can’t be allowed.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      02:06pm | 21/03/12

      Ha, Gomez - no, it’s not true.

      I’m not a ‘proud feminist’ - I’ve never called myself a feminist, if asked I use the term ‘humanist’. And you’ll find I rarely write about women’s issues.

      I am most certainly not a fellow traveller of MTRs, and have criticised her organisation publicly.

      I don’t deride the MRAs - I deride the extremists.

      And I’m in a very happy long-term relationship with someone who has probably never heard of White Ribbon.

      But hey, conspiratorial thinking doesn’t need facts.

    • Gomez12 says:

      02:27pm | 21/03/12

      Tory,
      Thanks for the answer!

      But I more meant that in my mind it fails as a conspiracy theory simply because even a reasonable person could have that interpretation of matters. After all - I wondered, and I don’t even care if it’s true or not! (Plus, I only just worked out there’s 2 Tory’s on this site….)

      I’m of the view that any decent conspiracy theory must involve one or more of:
      CIA
      Aliens
      RAND Corp
      The Illuminati
      Freemasons
      Death Rays
      Excessive complications

      @Sting,
      Evil? Not at all. Just pointing out that she would probably have met some, and sparks might have flown, it’s more of a “Yeah that could easily happen” than a “The CIA is conspiring with Santa and the Russian mafia to make me infertile using radiation beams from space- style conspiracy theory”.

      Warren,
      I try and avoid the loonies (On either side of the gender war, I tend to get along with both genders and don’t really need that kind of venom in my life) where I can, and the Punch is one of the few sites I’m allowed to visit through this workplace filter….

    • marley says:

      02:28pm | 21/03/12

      I read the offending article.  It fits rather nicely into the genre of “conspiracy theory nut-job websites” - semi-incoherent, rambling, anonymous sources, unsubstantiated (and insubstantial) links between people and events, supposition, and plain out invention.  Oh, and it’s quite badly written. 

      I’m kind of old school myself.  If I read an article as poorly argued and written as that one, I don’t bother inquiring further, because I figure the author isn’t worth listening to.

    • Sting says:

      03:35pm | 21/03/12

      Fair enough.

      I was just highlighting the ridiculousness of Erick style propaganda. E.g. painting a group that advocates against violence towards women as really a group that advocates man hate.

    • Gomez12 says:

      03:41pm | 21/03/12

      Marley
      “semi-incoherent, rambling, anonymous sources, unsubstantiated (and insubstantial) links between people and events, supposition, and plain out invention.  Oh, and it’s quite badly written”

      May you be forever damned for having a much more accurate definition than I…

    • L. says:

      12:57pm | 21/03/12

      Just playing devils advocate for a quick sec…

      How many countries governments has the CIA either attmpted to overthrow, or successfully overthrown..? And that’s not counting the ones they have merely wanted to “influence”.

      Palmer may be a tad mad, but really, would it suprise anyone?

      Reply

    • Cloak and dagger says:

      01:27pm | 21/03/12

      The Howard government comes to mine when bush was in power $
      & now this government with obama.

    • JT says:

      01:30pm | 21/03/12

      One could argue the CIA NOT being involved is a conspiracy smile

    • fml says:

      01:06pm | 21/03/12

      Tory,

      Please do not place Clive Palmer in the same bag as UFO believers, i quite like those UFO truthers.

      Reply

    • P. Darvio says:

      01:49pm | 21/03/12

      Clive Palmer really didn’t land on the Moon…...and I can prove it.

      Reply

    • Formerly says:

      04:22pm | 21/03/12

      He would have nudged it out of its orbit. That is, if he didn’t eat it to see if it really was made of green cheese.

    • Nick says:

      01:51pm | 21/03/12

      I don’t agree with Clive Palmer but thank god we still live in a country where anyone can express their opinion.Just like most here are able to criticise his comments without fear of being blocked or censored..Hopefully we never lose that right.

      Reply

    • subotic says:

      02:52pm | 21/03/12

      One word - ERICK

    • fml says:

      04:13pm | 21/03/12

      Erick can voice his opinion when ever he wants, just not here.

    • Cynicised says:

      04:45pm | 21/03/12

      Yes,  Erick is perfect example of the nutter conspiracy theorist and their perniciousness that Tory is warning us about. Good one, Subotic.

      Another word - History.

      and a few more - privately owned, moderated site.

    • Cat says:

      02:07pm | 21/03/12

      It is all too easy for Clive Palmer to make these sort of statements. It is also all too easy for others to criticise them.  The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
      What I do know is that the CIA is interested in the activities of any number of organisations. It is their job to be interested. They would also influence those activities if they could. Again it is their job to influence them.
      There is an enormous and very complex information network out there. Governments and political parties live on information gathering. We all contribute to it, more often than not without even being aware that we are doing so.
      That is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories. It is just plain everyday commonsense.

      Reply

    • Cat says:

      02:07pm | 21/03/12

      It is all too easy for Clive Palmer to make these sort of statements. It is also all too easy for others to criticise them.  The truth probably lies somewhere in between.
      What I do know is that the CIA is interested in the activities of any number of organisations. It is their job to be interested. They would also influence those activities if they could. Again it is their job to influence them.
      There is an enormous and very complex information network out there. Governments and political parties live on information gathering. We all contribute to it, more often than not without even being aware that we are doing so.
      That is hardly the stuff of conspiracy theories. It is just plain everyday commonsense.

      Reply

    • Whitey says:

      02:12pm | 21/03/12

      Fair Work Australia have annnounced an inquiry into Clive Palmers allergations

      Reply

    • Pavlo says:

      02:48pm | 21/03/12

      Whenever I see lots of labels and mud flying around desperately trying to attach themselves to someone I question their motives. ‘Bizzare’. ‘Crackpot’. ‘Wacky’. ‘Erratic’. Is he ‘Gay’ also?

      I don’t know what the truth is, but a look at some cold hard evidence would be good.

      Sometimes the truth really is stranger than fiction.

      Reply

    • chuck says:

      03:24pm | 21/03/12

      Bob and his colourful friends do seem to be manipulated by some external ethereal force though and Clive seems to have more $‘s than grey brain cells.

      Reply

    • Andre says:

      03:36pm | 21/03/12

      America is out to help America, he’s probably no far off the mark really. The Greens are the devil after all and so is America.

      Reply

    • Andre says:

      03:44pm | 21/03/12

      What does WIki Leaks say? Julian? Julian?

      Reply

    • Esteban says:

      05:17pm | 21/03/12

      He has been turned by the CIA. All Assange publications have been compromised.

    • Occam's Blunt Razor says:

      04:19pm | 21/03/12

      Is the CIA driving Greens policies? No.

      Is the CIA funding private foundations in the US that contribute to the Green movement in Australia?  Maybe,maybe not.  But jeezus it is a long bow to draw between funding a US based organisation to it having direct influence on an Australian Greens policy.

      And then we need to ask the question - how on earth is hobbling thew Australian Coal industry in the US National Interest?  Haven’t worked that out yet.

      Reply

    • Esteban says:

      05:10pm | 21/03/12

      OK occam I am pretty sure your question was rhetorical but I can’t resist.

      They want to damage the coal industry in Australia to drive the share price down and slip in and pick it up for cheap. With their Govt undertaking quantatative easing they want to diversify their non US$ assett base as a hedge agaist a collapsing US$.

      Do I believe it? No but how does it sound ?

      PS I also think that the CIA might be behind the Japanese tsunami to divert power generators from uranium to coal thus increasing demand and the price for coal.

    • worn out says:

      04:21pm | 21/03/12

      Your comment
      The Tories would believe anything! Clive Palmer is the new Pauline Hansen!
      So the Tories believe Clive Palmer speaks the truth when he says that the CIA runs the Greens ?? Typical Tory Mass Media Propaganda !
      :If Clive Palmer became the owner and the leader of The Liberal Party Of Australia, then the Liberals would never make sense again.

      Reply

    • worn out says:

      04:24pm | 21/03/12

      When will an intelligent person ever come out of Queensland ??
      Clive Palmer is a loud mouth verbal masturbator and verbal diarrhoea expert ! He is Pauline Hansen withiout the good looks, the good personality, and the good intelligence. His mind is nil ! He is money without mind!

      Reply

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      04:47pm | 21/03/12

      Never mind the attack on the US, you should wander off and ask Palestinians, Lebanese, Iraqis, Afghans and Pakistanis over the last decades how they feel about hundreds of thousands being murdered by terrorists from the US, Britain and here.

      Reply

    • Zeta says:

      05:02pm | 21/03/12

      There are unanswered questions abot 9/11. The official story is based around the notion that a plane can crash into a building, obliterating it, and yet the principal terrorist’s passport can fall, unharmed, to the ground to be found by a passerby.

      Ask anyone with more than a passing interest in engineering and they’ll tell you crashing a plane into a building and having it implode into it’s own footprint is as unlikely as crashing your car into a person and accidently giving them a triple by-pass.

      That’s before you get into the 4 non-Arabs arrested on the George Washington Bridge that were never heard from again, the sketchy debris fields at the Pentagon and in Pensylvania, the obvious need for a justification for a global surveilance state and a war for oil.

      I don’t think anyone knows the truth, that’s the whole problem. I’m willing to believe anything a legitimate investigation uncovers - earlier today I mentioned the Church Committee report, 6000 pages of investigation… into the CIA opening people’s mail. Now ask yourself, why did Gerald Ford get a 6000 page investigation into mail fraud but Bush gets just 500 pages and a 12 month investigation into the most significant terrorist action in the history of modern armed conflict.

      No one knows what really happened because it was poorly investigated if not covered up, pretending like you do, and then sledging people who dare to research it themselves is the height of arrogance.

      JFK was murdered by a conspiracy - even if you believe the ridiculous proposition that a single man was able to fire one shot that over a hundred people would sign affadavits was 3 (many of whom died in myusterious circumstances), even if you believe that a single bullet can penetrate the bone and tissue of 3 people, even if you believe that - the official investigation doesn’t.

      Anyone who still believes the Lone Gunman theory has been proved wrong, not by Oliver Stone, or some wing nut conspiracy theorists - but the Ramsey Clark Panel, the Rockefeller Commission, the Church Committee, and the United States House Select Committee into Assassinations that ALL found the President was most likely killed by a conspiracy, the principal suspects being either Castro, the Mob, the CIA, or LBJ in that order.

      It’s not a theory if it’s the truth. There are more examples of conspiracy theories turning out to be true than I care to mention, but in short and in no particular order - Iran Contra, P2 in Italy, the Babington Plot, ODESSA in South America, the Waco cover-up, the October Surprise.

      And I can understand ordinary people rejecting the notion of conspiracy theories out of hand, but what annoys me is when journalists, ostensibly, a class of people the public expects to uncover the mundane conspiracies of everyday politics refuse to believe that maybe, just maybe, the official stories aren’t true.

      Can you imagine if Woodward and Bernstein thought like Tory? And just thought ‘the President spying on his own people? that’s ridiculous!’ and labeled their witnesses cranks? Nixon would still be in power today.

      Think on that.

      Reply

    • willie says:

      06:29pm | 21/03/12

      @Zeta
      “Ask anyone with more than a passing interest in engineering and they’ll tell you crashing a plane into a building and having it implode into it’s own footprint is as unlikely as crashing your car into a person and accidently giving them a triple by-pass. “

      I have a little more than a passing interest in engineering and can say that it is very plausible that the aeroplanes brought down the WTC, much more plausible than someone setting up hundreds of kilos of explosive while the buildings were in use. I have very little interest in medicine so i couldn’t tell you if it’s more plausible than your triple bypass car crash scenario.

      What I don’t understand is why conspiracy theorists grasp at this particular straw? How does claiming the planes brought down the towers nullify a false flag attack theory?  Why would the conspirators need the towers to fall down on themselves? Will just crashing planes into towers not kill enough people but having the towers fall sideways kill too many people?

    • Esteban says:

      06:33pm | 21/03/12

      Conclusive proof that Zeta does not watch MKR.

    • Bryan says:

      06:06pm | 21/03/12

      On the face of it I would suggest that Clive has sprung a leak!

      On the other side of the coin, truth is often stranger than fiction. It’s not like the CIA are an organization that have surprised people. This includes the their own CIC.

      Conspiracy theories aside, I’d put Palmers claim in the 0.1% probable basket. The same sort of credence I gave to the CIA for

      •  selling arms and other military equipment in the ME
      •  laundering money for numerous governments and anti-government supporters
      •  getting involved in the distribution of Drugs
      •  assisting the Hussein regime in Iraq

      Reply

    • Melanie says:

      08:03pm | 21/03/12

      It is SO frustrating that our society so narrow minded and naive to believe everything that the media throws at us. We don’t question for a moment that Clive Palmer could be right. We don’t question anything! No, no. The world is this nice, happy place where no one puts their interests before ours, not the US government or any organisation. We are the ones who are nuts!

      Reply

    • Joe Black says:

      06:52am | 22/03/12

      Hi there Tory: It isn’t Palmer who is nutty or paranoid but you folk who even call him “dangerous” (how and to whom?) and wacky and a nutter because you resent his forthrightness to challenge you front-runners to listen and think bigger.  To use bleacher terms like weepy Albanese and, now, Bobby Carr (our self-styled minister for fun-fun-fun and anything but FA’s) use is crude, false and parochial. You are the risky guys because you pretend that Palmer is some sort of a hazard to our national image. Which of our images has been broken by big boy? What grossly overstated rot.

      Reply

    • HardHat says:

      07:38am | 22/03/12

      It is Clive Palmer’s image that has been damaged, walk outside, that loud rumbling sound you can hear is Australia laughing. He has not done The Big Miners any good either, between him and Rinehart they just look like a rich self indulgent joke.

    • the apologist says:

      07:40am | 22/03/12

      Crackpot he may be on this matter, but the thing that irks me is that I have not seen one media outlet really meaningfully engage with Palmer’s claims. The line right from the start was that he’s ridiculous, but such claims were as unsubstantiated as Palmer’s.
      Ok, so he’s a crackpot. If that’s true, it shouldn’t be hard to take whatever evidence he is basing his claims on and shoot them down. Instead we see politicians and media playing the man instead of the ball and no real discussion taking place.

      Reply

    • hot tub political machine says:

      08:56am | 22/03/12

      Why is that more and more billionaires remind more of Denholm Renholm (or shudder, Douglas Renholm) and less of Bill Gates?

      Reply

    • Valerie says:

      09:50am | 22/03/12

      I don’t know, nor do you, and how could such a comparison ever be legitimately made?

    • hot tub political machine says:

      02:11pm | 22/03/12

      See IT Crowd Season 4. Douglas joins a religion known as “Spaceology”, which come complete with a theory about the massage industry.

    • Seahorse says:

      10:25am | 22/03/12

      Clive Palmer is mad in my view. But aren’t we all mad in our different ways?Human beings have been rather nutty since we first began walking the earth. That’s my theory but I can’t prove it in spite of factual evidence.

      Reply

    • JCG says:

      10:29am | 22/03/12

      Another one of Tory Shepherd’s flouride drinking induced articles.

      Reply
 
Sorry, comments are now closed for this article.

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

See all tweets

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

The Punch is moving house

by The Punch Team

385

The Punch is moving house

Good morning Punchers. After four years of excellent fun and great conversation, this is the final post…

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

by Hannah Harborow

122

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

I have had some close calls, one that involved what looked to me like an AK47 pointed my way, followed…

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

by Sarrah Le Marquand

251

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

In a world in which there are still people who subscribe to the vile notion that certain victims of sexual…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: Hasbro, go straight to gaol, do not pass go

Tim says:

They should update other things in the game too. Instead of a get out of jail free card, they should have a Dodgy Lawyer card that not only gets you out of jail straight away but also gives you a fat payout in compensation for daring to arrest you in the first place. Instead of getting a hotel when you… [read more]

From: A guide to summer festivals especially if you wouldn’t go

Kel says:

If you want a festival for older people or for families alike, get amongst the respectable punters at Bluesfest. A truly amazing festival experience to be had of ALL AGES. And all the young "festivalgoers" usually write themselves off on the first night, only to never hear from them again the rest of… [read more]

Light weight

Gentle jabs to the ribs

Superman needs saving

Superman needs saving

Can somebody please save Superman? He seems to be going through a bit of a crisis. Eighteen months ago,… Read more

28 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free News.com.au newsletter