Climate scepticism is all the rage these days and it’s become very fashionable to doubt the scientists and suspect global fraud.

Sceptics blind to a potential apocalypse. Photo: AP

The sceptics will denounce mainstream opinion for attempting to supposedly silence them, all the while loudly denouncing their opponents on talkback radio, the internet and mainstream press. They criticise minor errors in massive reports and loudly attack sloppy emails, but they play fast and loose with the facts themselves.

Sceptics are rarely accountable for their statements on temperature, on climate or carbon dioxide levels, preferring instead to rely on unsophisticated arguments like ‘it’s crap’.

At the heart of this scepticism is opposition to the transition to a low carbon economy. Sceptics are deeply wedded to the idea that we can continue to burn fossil fuels with careless abandon. They are deeply committed to the idea that the more energy we burn the richer we’ll all get, the more jobs we will have and the happier we’ll all be. Sceptics stand for business as usual and a sleep walk into the future.

The sceptics’ vehement opposition to international agreements to reduce carbon dioxide emissions and to a national emissions trading scheme, seems to many domestic observers to only have economic or environmental consequences. The national debate has focused on the framework of jobs versus the environment, missing the effect climate change and resource scarcity will have on our national security.

The fact is that sceptics are soft on our defence, soft on border protection, and soft on our national security. Their ideological opposition to overwhelming scientific evidence make them blind to the potential threats that could be caused by climate change. Their opposition to the transition to a low carbon economy, and their overly optimistic confidence that we can carry on as usual, blind them to the likely threat of resource scarcity. The sceptics seek to convince Australians that we have time (and resources) to burn, that there’s no need to change our ways, and that we’re the lucky country, unconstrained because of our national resource endowment. Climate sceptics are wishful thinkers and their myopia is a danger to the national interest.

All science can be disputed and debated and this is a welcome fact of life in any democracy. Scientific discovery is not a finite process but an evolving one, and it involves as much human error as any other endeavour. Climate science is no different and every day scientists learn more of the challenges before us, and the challenges we are likely to face in the future. The consensus of peer reviewed science is that climate change is occurring, that we have a choice in how we respond, and those choices will affect the situations humanity faces in the future. The effects of climate change, resource scarcity and resource security will have a profound impact on our national security.

There are already a number of well authored reports on the impact climate change will have on national and international security. It’s a pity climate change sceptics don’t bother to read these reports because even if they aren’t convinced by scientists they may be persuaded by military leaders. The approach of the military to risk is fundamentally different to other areas of society. Military personnel factor risk into their thinking because they deal with life and death situations, whereas the rest of us are more cavalier because of our less demanding environment. The Chairman of the Military Advisory Board for the CNA Report ‘National Security and the Threat of Climate Change’ General Gordon R Sullivan (Ret.) states:

“We seem to be standing by and, frankly asking for perfect science. People are saying they want to be convinced, perfectly. They want to know climate science projections with 100 percent certainty. Well, we know a great deal and even with that, there is still uncertainty. But the trend line is very clear. We never have 100 percent certainty. We never have it. If you wait until you have 100 percent certainty, something bad is going to happen on the battlefield. That’s something we know. You have to act with incomplete information. You have to act based on the trend line. You have to act on intuition sometimes.”

Responsible political leadership on climate change needs to apply this sort of approach to the risks associated with climate change. This is the approach of the Rudd Government - an early and orderly transition to a low carbon economy though a free market mechanism – the CPRS. This approach safeguards our society, our environment, our economy and our national security.

The threat of climate change to our society, our environment and our economy has been well debated – the potential consequences for our national security have not. Academic research and reports on the national security implications of climate change outline a number of threats. These potential threats include food and water scarcity, rising sea levels, increased threat of national disasters like hurricanes, storms and flooding, and a rise in infectious diseases. These threats could strike in Asia and the Pacific and could affect millions of people.

The research in this area refers to climate change acting as a ‘threat multiplier’. This means we could see increased competition and conflict over arable land and water resources, internal and external migration, climate change induced asylum seeking, resource scarcity, political instability, failed states and ungoverned territories. Nations will simultaneously face constrained capacity to act and increased demands to intervene.

These are all potential threats to our defence, the protection of our borders and our national security but the climate change sceptics won’t acknowledge them, prepare for them or act to prevent them occurring.

Climate change sceptics have a profoundly irresponsible approach to our national security because their ideology does not allow them to acknowledge the potential threats we may face, and their denial of the evidence could leave our nation unprepared for a hostile and uncertain future. Make no mistake; if you’re a self confessed climate sceptic then you’re as soft as butter on Australia’s defence. 

- Nick Champion is the Labor member for the federal electorate of Wakefield.   

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281 comments

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    • Dyspeptic Curmudgeon says:

      12:30pm | 23/01/11

      The ‘settled science’ is neither.

      I must say that I have not read such a buzz-word overloaded piece of tripe in many years. It was not a surprise to see that it was attributed to a Labour politician.. What a wanker.,

    • James says:

      10:54am | 01/04/10

      The only reason Australia is likely to be attacked is because of climate change.  If changes in weather cause crops to fail in Asia on a wide enough scale to destablise it, then we may be invaded by people who are desperate to secure food.  Our best defence is a stable planet with a healthy environment.

    • Dan Cass says:

      09:09am | 01/04/10

      Nick - this is a very important issue and a good article.

      The national security threat posed by climate wreckers requires continued intelligent discussion. Don’t let the wingnuts dumb you down!

    • Roberet Nickisson says:

      10:25am | 01/04/10

      Australia’s defence depends only on the fact that no one at the moment desires to attack them. In time China will and will succeed either by buyout or force when it tires for paying for the raw materials it needs.)Australia has NO effective defence force at all unless the Americans who have their own hands full losing every conflict they have engaged in since the end of WW2 can find time and the MONEY to come to our defence. This whole article is just a front to foster the United Nations and its desire to be the Government of the World through for a start control of stupid nations with binding Climate Change Laws (Kyoto)which if ever implemented control that countries total economic development and prosperity and its peoples well being.
      Nick,  Al Gore, and the UN IPCC chief (railway engineer and expert on AGW especially Himalaya Glacier melting) you one and all propagate
      rubbish.

    • James says:

      02:13pm | 09/02/10

      That’s it you bozos, I tire of your stupidity, believe whatever you want.  None of you have even a basic grasp of science which means you can believe anything you want up to and including that the moon is made of cheese.

      Jonno you take that cake, “the scientists don’t appear to be able to do so”, but you do? Ha ha ha I am imagining you in your stubbies and thongs trying tell the world’s best scientists “the truth”, oh brother you really are too much.

    • Munroe says:

      03:53pm | 09/02/10

      James, I guess you live in the walled garden of the ABC and SMH. Go exploring! You will learn that in the past two months, the IPCC has become mired in scandal. They’ve admitted to including erroneous data; they are being investigated for scientific corruption and have been found to have broken FOI laws. The glaciers are not melting (even the IPCC now admits this; did you know that, James?); the Amazon is not under threat (another embarrassing backpedal by the IPCC - did you know that?). Tree ring data was selectively excluded… the list of scandals grows daily. They’ve even relied on Greenpeace and WWF for critical scientific data.
      The science is falling apart; but it has not been reported in your favoured leftwing publications so you haven’t heard about it.

    • Jonno says:

      12:22pm | 09/02/10

      Wasted two minutes of your precious life, while slaving to pay the taxes this carbon tax load will put on you?
      Narrow minded thinking like this will get you into even further trouble.
      Look at this>> Even if CO2 was to treble, the fact is it would not be the cause of further global warming. Its time to find out what is the cause,
      The scientists dont appear to be able to do so. I asked the question three years ago with no answer from the far removed haughty scientist. Its time to do some work.  That may be a new swear word for some of them….
      Need some truth >>  http://geoplasma.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!C00F2616F39D0B2B!592.entry

    • munroe says:

      12:11pm | 09/02/10

      Why are we even still discussing this stupid topic? It’s over. Global warming is dead. Google “climategate” “glaciergate” “amazongate” and educate yourselves about the scientific scandal of the decade.

    • Dick J says:

      10:51am | 09/02/10

      The world is warming this sceptic agrees and so do most thinkers on the topic. Is it man made or natural and if man made to what extent if any?

      If man is the problem why wouldn’t humankind go to Copenhagen or wherever to legislate on population issues. Limit family sizes, compulsory birth control and taxing the emitters of children and giving credits to those that have none. A ‘market ’ on people.

      The hypocracy and hyperbole is deplorable. Nuclear energy- why on earth do we export uranium but blindly refuse to use it. Why? Politics pure and simple. The ALP and Greens NIMBY scare campaign in this regard is rank hypocracy. They are charletons. Howard got lambasted by Rudd when he wanted to have nuclear energy on the table. At least Howard had foresight and balls.

      Spend money on real issues,  overfishing, deforestation, real polution of water and air .

      By the way its not carbon its carbon dioxide CO2.

    • PeterD says:

      10:48am | 09/02/10

      I think I’m one of the people you’re referring to, Nick (ie., a ‘sceptic’), and I have to say your insight is astonishing.

      but I’m feeling a bit short-changed- I’m also into Sloth and Sabbath Breaking, which hardly rated a mention in your list of sins, and I’m working up to Gluttony. 

      Please, in future, paint the whole picture.

      P.S.  Off topic I know, but is any of your superannuation ‘invested’ in green alternative energy scams? Oh, I’m so sorry. PD.

    • AgBlaster says:

      06:18pm | 05/02/10

      OK Scientific, here it is in a nutshell.

      That nice Mr Abbott wants to take 3 to 10 Billion of our tax dollars and give it to the big polluters. Somehow that’ll make it all better. He can’t or wont say what spending he’ll cut, or what taxes he’ll raise, to get his 3 to 10 Billion.

      That nice Mr Rudd wants to get the big polluters to pay about 12 Billion by trading in carbon permits, that will in time help reduce carbon-related greenhouse gasses by making it cheaper to pollute less. He’ll use that money to pay us consumers back any extra costs while we learn how to use energy more efficiently.

      Who do you think should pay for the problem? Those who created it and must change it? Or those of us trapped in using it?

    • Charles Kelly says:

      05:32pm | 08/02/10

      Deluded much AgBlaster?

      How much money (funds raised by Abbott’s mob) has Rudd given away just to make himself look good and buy some votes?

      You REALLY think that Rudd would “use that money to pay us consumers back any extra costs. . .” HUH??? What have you been smoking??? A VERY SMALL percentage of the population would be compensated - ONLY those whose votes he can buy! The majority of the population would be paying higher prices for almost EVERYTHING!

      You actually believe Rudd’s spin!!! Classic! Too funny! I didn’t think ANYBODY was THAT gullible! ANY credibility you thought you had just vanished in a puff of logic.

    • Scientific Retard says:

      05:26pm | 05/02/10

      James…Charles…...TIME OUT…....SERENITY NOW!!!!!!!

      Forget the science for a sec, there will always be two arguments from the look of all of your points (well actually I didn’t read them because quite frankly it may as well be in chinese for all I understand).

      But…...for the love of all things holy…...the “people” will not support climate change action of it means that their lifestyles and especially their hip pockets will take a pounding.

      Kevin Rudd will NEVER succeed in gaining support simply by saying it is a “moral” thing and we need to appeal to our concience to support his decision to may us pay. So as long as there is somone opposing that cost, quite frankly they’ll come out on top.

      The masses no longer have a concience, appeal to our hip pockets and say they will NOT be affected and you have a won argument for climate change action, whether it does or doesn’t exist.

      However, tell me that it’s my moral obligation to sacrifice my pay for a scientific theory and I’ll tell you to place your thumb firmly up your butt.

      Nuff said…...now…..go to your naughty corners!!!

    • Charles Kelly says:

      12:05pm | 06/02/10

      Partly true Scientific Retard. A lot of “people” will not support climate change action if it means that their lifestyles and especially their hip pockets will take a pounding - but MANY would actually consider it if it could be irrefutably proven that the benefit would definitely outweigh the cost. However that’s only part of the story, because it’s also apparent that the “alarmists” will ONLY support climate change action if it means that the lifestyles and especially the hip pockets of EVERYONE, and not just themselves*, will take a pounding (of course many alarmists also stand to benefit financially from climate change action). That doesn’t sound anywhere near like true conviction to me.

      *Truth be told, many alarmists would be just fine with everyone else BUT themselves paying for it - while they collectively suck on the public teat through their government grants, pensions and dole cheques.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:45pm | 05/02/10

      Show of hands from the “deniers” - how many of you use energy efficient appliances and lightbulbs, are “water wise”, recycle, and walk or use public transport when able? I know I do, and I’m willing to bet the majority of us evil ignorant “deniers” do. However we just see these actions as common sense, not as a source of smug self-gratification.

      The alarmists could all do more in their lives to help their fanatical cause, but they DON’T. Why? Because they’re hypocritical and half-arsed - and even though they incessantly bleat about how “urgent” action is needed to avert their impending “apocalypse”, they’re not willing to genuinely put their money where their whiney supercilious mouths are until the evil “deniers” are also footing the bill for their fanaticism. It’s the usual whingeing lefty mantra - “Do as I say, not as I do - and while you’re at it, you can pay for it as well”.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      03:31pm | 09/02/10

      Yada yada yada - just more of the same blinkered delusional ignorance we’ve come to expect from you James.

      I don’t expect anyone else to do MY “heavy lifting”, whereas YOU do.

      I’ll endorse a communal solution, when firstly the problem is irrefutably identified, secondly a genuinely effective solution is proposed, and thirdly an agreeable consensus is achieved. Until such a time I will NOT support the religious fanaticism of delusional zealots, nor their aggressive insistence on forcing their beliefs on others - and in the meantime I will personally work towards improving MY environment MYSELF.

    • James says:

      11:40am | 09/02/10

      Pot calling kettle black I believe.  You want to deny climate change so you don’t have to do anything, while everyone else does the heavy lifting.
      Talk about a bludger, you are immune to what the science is saying, ok you don’t get science that is fine, but to expect everyone else to do the hard work of preserving the environment that provides you with the oxygen you need to make your profound arguement, I mean give me a break Charlie boy.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      11:02am | 09/02/10

      I see you’ve chosen to omit the most significant point on your list James - selfishly expecting everyone else to foot the bill for your fanaticism so you can hypocritically avoid making a genuinely selfless commitment to your cause.

    • James says:

      09:27pm | 08/02/10

      I would be happy for you to do as I do, this will involve:

      Monthly donations to Greenpeace and the wilderness society
      Working as a volunteer for Conservation volunteers Australia
      Buying 100% Green power
      Have a compost bin
      Having a worm farm
      Protesting for an increase Australia’s emission cuts to 40% by 2020
      Riding to work
      Only eating meat once a week
      Advocating for a sustainability program in your place of work
      Buying a hybrid vehicle
      Writing to MPs demanding stronger environmental policies
      Avoid flying
      Growing your own food

      Do that and I might take you seriously

    • Charles Kelly says:

      05:31pm | 08/02/10

      EXACTLY James! YOU “like mod cons” and don’t want to be without them - so YOU expect “everyone” else to foot the bill for YOUR fanaticism so that YOU “can have both”. YOU said it, not me.

      If YOU genuinely believed in YOUR cause, you’d be happy to foot the bill YOURSELF!

      Just as I expected, you’ve given us the usual whingeing lefty mantra of “Do as I say, not as I do - and while you’re at it, you can pay for it as well”.

    • James says:

      11:20am | 08/02/10

      Jason that is another myth i.e. the “evil” greenies want you to be living in a cave eating mung beans and wearing hemp clothing.  Stuff that for a joke I like mod cons, I do, however think with an effort from everyone and vision from leaders we can have both.  i.e. A healthy planet and a great lifestyle.

      Compare changing our energy systems etc with the introduction of sewerage systems in cities, it was a massive task that put people out for a while but in the end everyone was better off for the short term pain. Don’t believe me, go to a city without an adequate sewerage system, peeeyoooo.

    • Jason says:

      06:30pm | 05/02/10

      I’m an evil denier, and I catch a bus to work, switch off all appliances when not in use, recycle and have played a major part in reducing power consumption of my employer’s data centre through our green project.

      I am all for cleaning up pollution, but I hate bad science being passed off as fact.  The alarmists simply expect their government to do the work for them - lets all play victims.

    • James says:

      03:08pm | 05/02/10

      Bob says:02:37pm | 05/02/10

      The real threat is not global warming, it’s population.

      No, it’s actually both.

    • Bob says:

      02:37pm | 05/02/10

      “...increased threat of national disasters like hurricanes, storms and flooding, and a rise in infectious diseases. “

      The point about increased threat of National disasters was found to be bogus and removed from the journal is which it was published.

      The real threat is not global warming, it’s population. Regardless whether AGW is significant or not, global population increases will prove to be far more damaging to the Environment and standard of living than climate change.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      01:14pm | 05/02/10

      Has anyone else noticed that James’s career advancement relies on the rest of us endorsing his views?

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:08pm | 05/02/10

      You claim to have a masters in renewable energy James. Even if it’s not that much of a factor at present, your choice to do a masters in renewable energy clearly indicates your preferred career path. Do you understand the difference between current career and “career advancement”?

    • James says:

      02:18pm | 05/02/10

      Once again Charles shooting your mouth off before you know the facts.  I am working in Energy transmission, which doesn’t care one iota what is generating the power, renewable or otherwise. 

      Keep spewing out statements mate one of these days you’ll make a correct one.

    • agblaster says:

      12:23pm | 05/02/10

      Subsidy? Agblaster didn’t need no subsidy. He just went and done it, and plent more besides.

      Its worth spending some time here, just to show up the bull posted by whiners like Charles. He doesn’t know what he’s talking about. He just makes it up or tries to put his words in other peoples mouths.

      What a ranting fraud!

    • James says:

      12:14pm | 05/02/10

      Charles, the reason more hasn’t been acheived is partly down to people like yourself shooting your mouth off about something you really don’t understand. 

      I challenge you to really ask yourself if deep down there isn’t a nagging doubt that you really don’t have a full enough grasp on the basic science to be claiming humans aren’t causing the globe to warm.  If that doubt is there, then some action YOU can take is to educate yourself properly.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      12:41pm | 05/02/10

      It’s VERY clear there’s a “nagging doubt” James, that’s the point. Rather than blindly bandwagon-jumping, more and more people every day are choosing to explore the MANY doubts which have arisen concerning AGW “science”, instead of ignorantly endorsing your religious fanaticism on the basis of incomplete information.

    • agblaster says:

      08:41am | 05/02/10

      Jeeze, Charles, get your head out of your butt. 

      It’s you lot,  you finger-wagging,  overconsuming, tax-dodging “individualists” of the Right, who are splurging up big on imports, big houses, and yadayadayada.

      The rest of us are making all the contributions we can afford, catching trains and buses, insulating our houses, getting low energy and low-water use appliances, solar hot water,  by buying local, buying green, buying organic. And a fair bit of it saves money in end.

      It’s happening all around you.  Reading The Punch over several months, any number of posters have said the same thing. But you just don’t bother to listen. You’re just another hectoring tool of the Right who’d rather rant than act.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      11:15am | 05/02/10

      Really agblaster? So “the rest of [you] are making all the contributions [you] can afford”? Is that so? All you listed are the typical measures that MOST of us have taken regardless of our stance on AGW - and you REALLY think that’s enough? If it’s THAT important to you lot, WHY does it take a government subsidy to achieve these results? It all sounds a bit half-arsed to me agblaster.

      Besides generating the big clouds of smug that follow you and James around wherever you go, WHAT have you really achieved? Given the massive amount of public support you lot like to claim you have for your new religion, WHY is there not a massive decrease in the amount of traffic on our roads? WHY has there also not been a massive decrease in the use of electrical appliances, the consumption of meat, and the purchase of products and services from countries and companies who are the worst offenders?

      If this situation is as “urgent” as you claim it is, why are you wasting time here when you could actually be doing MORE to save the world from the evil “deniers”? HOW can you justify the electricity use required to post your petty little rant, which achieved little more than heightening you feelings of deluded self-righteousness? Clearly you’re also too busy pontifically bleating to actually achieve anything positive.

      Once again I repeat, why is your “urgent” action contingent on the evil “deniers” also footing the bill for your fanaticism?

    • James says:

      03:20pm | 04/02/10

      More like you’d spend the time if you had a sensible, scientifically credible answer

    • James says:

      10:30am | 08/02/10

      @Jason I am not trying to win you over by being nice to you (or snide) I am trying to get the correct information out there so people like scientific retard aren’t completely confused by the science and end up flipping a coin to decide on what is actually a life and death issue.

      The oceans aren’t outgassing CO2, per say, there is an exchange i.e. gas out/gas disolved and it reaches an equilibrium state.  The latest scientific research would indicated that global warming means that the oceans can’t absorb as much CO2 as “normal” (say before 1880).  Which means the CO2 pumped out by the 10s of thousands of coal fired power plants etc is accumulated in the atmosphere at a faster rate.

      To understand why the earth doesn’t have an environment like venus, you have to look at the composition of both planets, and what has caused each to reach its current equilibrium state.

      The Earth is at a distance from the sun and of a composition that means it is the “lucky” planet, its temperature can only swing in a narrow (compared with most other plants) range, dependant on the composition of its atmosphere and distance from the sun (also solar output which has been proven not to be a factor in the current warming)

      Outgassing of all available GHGs (in the crust & oceans) could probably only raise the average global temperature by tens of degrees C (I say “only” in comparison to venus,  a 6 C would likely kill off most life for millenia).

      The hotter a body becomes the more it EM radiation it emits (see black body radiation) this is a negative feedback process, that prevents Earth being significantly warmer.

      There are potentially other negative feedback mechanisms such as low hanging cloud increasing as the world warms.  However I would not in anyway rely on such phenomena to save us, it is not well understood, nor has any evidence been found to say that the magnitude of this effect compares to positive feedback mechanisms such as methane release from the permafrost and from oceanic methane hydrates.

    • Jason says:

      01:00pm | 07/02/10

      James, you can put away your sword, and any assumptions about my intelligence, background or motivation.  Talking down to people you have never met is unlikely to win them over.

      My *actual* question was - If CO2 gets released from the oceans as temperature increases, and temperature increases as atmospheric CO2 increases (accepted) - what is the limiting factor which prevents earth from having a runaway climate?  There is some implication of diminishing returns from CO2.  Are we actually about to trigger an early ice age?  And if the outgassing of the ocean is based on temperature and relative concentrations - does the ocean release less CO2 now because we have increased the concentration ourselves?

      If you can keep your answer civil that would be appreciated - these are legit questions which keep many people from being “believers” and I am one of many seeking some credible answers not dressed up with meaningless jargon and insults to my intelligence.

    • James says:

      08:01pm | 06/02/10

      Jason I was giving you a chance to drop it and not look stupid.  CO2 Lags Temp before 1880 because there was no industrial civilisation before then.  CO2 disolving in water is temperature dependant, hence as temp changed in the past CO2 followed with a time lag.  I can just see you next line about if temperature changed in the past what are we worried about, do yourself a favour don’t ask that until you have had a think about it.

    • Jason says:

      06:27pm | 05/02/10

      Nice politicians answer James.  It’s a valid question, and dismissing it as nonsense just demonstrates that your research and/or comprehension of said research is still incomplete.  A true scientist would explain why the data is considered invalid, rather than just ignore it or pretend it’s not relevant.  The data is available in the public domain, so since you are an expert, please explain the discrepancy.  Humour me.

      BTW - Name calling is an obvious sign of not having a rational argument or intelligence to make up for it.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:23pm | 05/02/10

      I wasn’t referring to the cost of your course James, I was referring to the fact that in another topic on here you claimed to have relied on government handouts to put food on your table and keep a roof over your head while you were studying. Why didn’t you go out and get a job, or two, or three, instead of choosing to be a burden on the taxpayer?

      As taxpayers, we have every right to a say in determining how our taxes are spent. YOU are the one who is complaining about people simply excercising their constitutional rights.

    • James says:

      02:03pm | 05/02/10

      Whoa there Charlie, I see why you are a sceptic you talk before you engage your brain or find out the facts.

      I am not in house made of mung bean camp and I am pay off my full fee masters.  I also pay taxes, but unlike you I don’t bitch about it cos I know that public services cost money.  As far as I am concerned the tax dollar spent on avoiding climate change is the best money we ever spent an once of prevention being worth a pound of cure and all.

      If your sloppy science is anything to go by, you are the lazy sod here.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      01:10pm | 05/02/10

      Why the computer James? That’s not good for the environment. Do you own a TV? Other electrical appliances? How much taxpayer funding did you recieve in the years it took to work towards your masters in renewable energy? You haven’t made any genuinely hard sacrifices. You haven’t truly suffered for your beliefs. All you’ve done is the usual self-righteous lefty stuff, and as usual, you expect the Australian taxpayer to foot the bill for your fanaticism.

    • James says:

      12:07pm | 05/02/10

      Jason, I have done buckets of research which is why I know you are repeating the same old bollocks bandied about by scientifically challenged loud mouths.  Especially the bit about CO2 increases following temperature rises in the past, I’m sorry but you are a nonce.

    • James says:

      11:57am | 05/02/10

      What have I done?  A whole heck of a lot more than you I am guessing, Charlie boy.

      I don’t really want to blow my own trumpet… but I will:

      For a start I have personally planted over 2000 trees with CVA
      I have taken part in door knocking campaigns
      I have taken part in protests
      I buy green power
      I ride to work
      I eat mainly vegetarian
      I have written proposals to governement on renewable energy
      I have done a masters in renewable energy

      wow looking back it all adds up

      I can keep going if you want

    • Jason says:

      11:25am | 05/02/10

      James - given the buckets of research you’ve done, how did you incorporate the vostok ice core data showing more than one very warm period in the past into your view of AGW?  Did the fact that CO2 increases clearly FOLLOW increased temperature affect (not the other way around) your belief in a casual link or was this data not relevant?  It’s a serious question related to your research and methodology…ie scientific review.  I hope you didn’t just ignore the data which didn’t match your pre-defined ideas.  Changing the scope of data is part of the fraud mate.  Settled science is not science, it’s dogma.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      10:46am | 05/02/10

      What exactly have you “done” James? If this situation is as “urgent” as you claim it is, why are you wasting time here when you could actually be doing something about it? Clearly you’re too busy pontifically bleating to actually achieve anything positive. So you no longer use electrical appliances, eat meat or buy any products and services from countries and companies who are the worst offenders?

    • James says:

      09:04pm | 04/02/10

      Charlie old stick I have spent the last 5 years taking action on climate change.  First I listened to the science, then I studied it myself, then I acted.  How about you do the same, start with an open mind and do the research yourself, don’t rely on either side.  You will have to do a fair amount of basic physics, but there are plenty of resources out there.

      If you do research from first principles you will see the clear signature of anthropogenic global warming.

      A little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing, you and your buddies are deluding yourselves.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      05:34pm | 04/02/10

      Given the feedback you’ve recieved on here James, it’s evident a lot of people would agree that YOU have wasted a lot of time pontifically bleating, but are yet to provide anything close to a “sensible, scientifically credible answer”.

      Clearly this situation isn’t as “urgent” as you claim it is - otherwise you’d actually be out there doing something positive instead of just wasting time. Just like your heros Rudd and Wong, you’re all talk and no action.

    • John Rodda says:

      03:20pm | 04/02/10

      Mr Champion, there is only one thing that matters in science - evidence, consisting of observations and measurements.  I challenge you to show one bit of evidence supporting your man-made global warming theory.  It would be a first, because no-one anywhere has ever published such evidence, though evidence to the contrary is abundantly available.  If you don’t have any evidence, and you still believe in it, you believe in a superstition.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      02:55pm | 04/02/10

      Once again, if you climate change alarmists believe so strongly in this new religion of yours, why don’t you voluntarily contribute a major amount of your time and income to your “necessary” cause? If it was really that urgent and important, you’d all be jumping at the chance to do as much as you possibly can of your own volition and at your own expense! Why then, are you not? Why are most of you still driving cars, using electrical appliances, eating meat, and buying products and services from countries and companies who are the worst offenders? What are you waiting for? Why is your “urgent” action contingent on the evil “deniers” also footing the bill for your fanaticism?

      Instead of spending a large amount of your time sanctimoniously berating the evil “deniers” who you’ve referred to as “loons”, “uneducated”, “simple minded”, “boy-men”, while criticising their “stupidity”, “ignorance” and “deep seeded psychological problems”, why aren’t you devoting every minute of your time and every cent you have to saving this “doomed” world of ours from those who you so clearly despise? How exactly is your time better spent ramming your beliefs down everyone else’s throats, instead of focussing every single bit of your effort into actually practising what you preach?

      If your cause genuinely has as much public support as you all like to claim it does, you don’t need the endorsement of those who currently question your claims, nor do you need their funding - so what are you waiting for? Put your own money where your big mouths are! I repeat, why is your “urgent” action contingent on the evil “deniers” also footing the bill for your fanaticism?

    • James says:

      04:50pm | 04/02/10

      We wouldn’t have to “bleat” so much if this debate hadn’t been hijacked by scientifically challenged nut cases.  Plenty of postive things are happening to reduce our emissions, no thanks to ill informed pseudo scientists, muddying the waters and confusing the public.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      04:20pm | 04/02/10

      You and your “sky is falling” alarmist cronies aren’t “saving” anyone at the moment - that’s the point. You’re all too busy pontifically bleating to actually achieve anything positive.

    • James says:

      03:38pm | 04/02/10

      So you should foot the bill, we are saving you from yourself.  You can stick your fingers in your ear and go la la la la if you like.  But if you weaken action on climate change with your craziness you’ll find someone questioning your sceptisism.  That’s the thing about sceptisism it cuts both ways.

    • Nige says:

      02:43pm | 04/02/10

      James your confusing 2 issues I think mate. There is the one issue of sustainability. I think most people including sceptics understand our need to become more sustainable in everything we do. Burning fossil fuels for our energy needs is not a lasting solution. It should only ever be viewed as a stepping stone to renewable sources of energy. The change is already happening and will continue.

      The AGW debate is about a single environmental issue that is a debate because it is not proven. An environmental issue that has been pushed to the front of most peoples minds, whilst pushing other equally, if not greater environmental issues out of common thought. A question, of if we need to go to extraordinary levels to become carbon emission free, in order to save our planet. It should be noted that scepticism is part of the scientific process, and thus part of the solution. A greater number of scientists everyday publish or release new evidence that show AGW is not happening. These need to be heard. It’s immoral to not listen to such evidence. Not doing so shows a level of wilful ignorance by believers. This suggests a hidden agenda. What is that agenda?

      A previous comment here that I found rather interesting:

      “Perhaps you might like to explain to us why you want us to believe that in every 85,800 molecules of air, a single CO2 molecule produced by humans warms the planet yet the other 32 produced by Nature does not.”

      Can you explain this James? It is one question I would like answered, from anyone??

    • Nige says:

      01:20pm | 05/02/10

      Thanks for that. However it’s not showing me anything I did not already know. I am aware the effect the seasons have on CO2 over an annual cycle. The relation of the larger land mass in the northern heliosphere and CO2 emissions by fauna during seasons. I’m particularly interested in the total CO2 lvl’s produced by nature and humans, and then the comparison.

      “For every molecule of CO2 produced by nature there are about 33 produced by humans.”

      Where can I find this referenced? Is it on this site?? Perhaps I’m not looking in the right area?

    • James says:

      11:35am | 05/02/10

      OK Nige here you go hot out of the gas chromatograph.

      http://www.esrl.noaa.gov/gmd/ccgg/trends/

      See the up and down in the CO2, that is mainly due to winter and summer in the Northern hemisphere, i.e. trees sheding leaves and new growth in summer.

      Find another source of CO2 data if you like but it has to be from a government lab.

      Most of the papers on CO2 man made vs natural I have as paper copies from my course but here are a few.

      Sources

      Andreae M.O., 1990, Ocean-atmosphere interaction in the global biogeochemical sulfur cycle: Marine Chemistry, v. 30: 1-29.

      Andres, R.J., and Kasgnoc, A.D., Global Emissions Inventory Activity, 1997, Global Emissions Inventory Activity: Time-Averaged Inventory of Volcanic Sulfur Emissions.

      Barnes, Ivan, Irwin, W.P., and White, D.E., 1978, Global distribution of carbon dioxide discrages, and major zones of seismicity: U.S. Geological Survey Water Resources Investigation 78-79, Open-File Report, 12 p.

      Bates, T.S., Lamb, B.K., Guenther, A., Dignon, J., Stoiber, R.E., 1992, Sulfur emissions to the atmosphere from natural sources. Journal of Atmospheric Chemistry 14:315-337.

      Buat-Menard, P., and Arnold, M., 1978, The heavy metal chemistry of atmospheric particulate matter emitted by Mount Etna volcano: Geophysical Research Letters, v. 5, p. 245.

      Cadle, R.D., 1980, A comparison of volcanic with other fluxes of atmospheric trace gas constituents: Reviews of Geophysics and Space Physics, v. 18, p. 746-752.

      http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php

    • Nige says:

      09:43am | 05/02/10

      I am genuinely interested. I don’t know yet if i trust your sources, but i would like to see them anyways. It is just the science I have researched says something totally different to what your saying. I want to know if those statistics are published fact, or a number pulled from the air. In particular the point I’m interested to read about is CO2 production of nature vs humans.

    • James says:

      04:15pm | 04/02/10

      would you trust my sources if I take the time to show them to you?  or do you think that anything I post is part of the world wide global warming conspiracy?

    • nige says:

      03:44pm | 04/02/10

      wow i did not know that. The stuff I have read has said different things to that.

      Is that an internet source where you got that information?
      Is it possible for you to link the source for my own research?

    • James says:

      03:32pm | 04/02/10

      No I can’t answer that question because it seems to relate to another planet. On Earth CO2 is at 387 ppm that means for every CO2 molecule there are roughly 2583 molecules of oxygen and nitrogen in a (~20% to 80% mix).  For every molecule of CO2 produced by nature there are about 33 produced by humans.

      So sorry pal you are on the wrong planet.

    • Rafe says:

      02:37pm | 04/02/10

      @ James
      Blah much?

      That is the crux of what you have to say for yourself. Plus a dashing of personal insults and google statistics.

      I’d spend the time, but I just realised that I have better things to do.

    • James says:

      01:00pm | 04/02/10

      Rafe you need to get schooled.

      You are fooling yourself that you understand this issue, my “reguritation” comes from the most renoun scientists of the 20th century, your reguritation comes from a bug eyed looney, rambling on about a new world government.

      You mistake this as a political debate (the science of global warming that is), with extremists at both ends, it is a scientific debate that has been settled long ago.  It is over and you don’t ever realise it yet.  It will only be seriously contested if a similar level of evidence against the man made global warming theory can be found, that evidence does not exist.

      On another topic, “Scientific retard” (at least you are honest) asked which was going to work out finacially better for him (I assume you are a “him”).

      Consider this:

      What will Australia’s oil costs be going forward to 2050 if oil is about
      $75 dollars a barrel now and we have seen that it can reach $147 dollars when demand picks up, I would suggest buying an electric car my friend.

      Stern claims that world GDP could slump by 20% if we experience the worst of climate change, if the great depression was a 10% slump in GDP what do you think a 20% slump will be like?

    • pete says:

      12:41pm | 04/02/10

      Yeah whatever Nick. The biggest threat to Australia’s security is our incompetent Federal Government, falling over themselves to stuff our economy and sell us down the river, not to mention opening the gates to anyone that manages to sail into our waters. I wonder how thorough the security checks are on the refugees that are allowed into Australia ? Given our detention facility is about to overflow, I don’t suppose there would be any pressure on immigration officials to get them into the country quickly WOULD THERE ?

    • Rafe says:

      12:22pm | 04/02/10

      @James
      You’ve already covered those questions in one of your other posts - I’m not refuting those, and in that wording you’re making a mockery of both myself and Bill. Further more by saying his rebuttal is nothing more than facts lifted from Monkton, you are attempting to lift your own regurgitated twaddle to a higher level. Because lets face it, your ‘100% proven facts’ are lifted from someone else’s presentation. You haven’t done the research yourself, all your talk is just a monologue from someone who fancies themselves as an expert (with google credentials).

      I am ‘a skeptic’.
      But I am a skeptic because of people such as James who get on the bandwagon, spewing forth the ‘save the planet’ crap, without knowing how its going to be done, and what is in fact wrong with it in the first place. Yes things are changing, but the world is a changing place. I refuse to believe that the experts know what they are talking about, even Monkton only has an opinion based on what he knows.

      This isn’t a ‘Yes/No’ answer. Its not like Santa Clause when you believe in him or you don’t. This is a complex issue, that so far has extremists on both ends making sh*t up. And in the end the only reason half the people care about it is because its going to cost them money, like the 18% power increase, which lets face it noone can afford.

    • James says:

      11:54am | 04/02/10

      @ Rafe

      Well I 100% disagree with it, because it is 100% old hat nonsense 100% lifted from Chris Monkton’s crappy power point presentation.
      If Bill bothered to put in one new fact that hasn’t been 100% disproven then I might bother to refute it, why reinvent the wheel.

      Here is a little quiz for you and Bill.

      1. Do warmer sea surface temperatures:

      a)  Contribute to stronger cyclones?

      b)  Contribute to weaker cyclones?

      c)  Indicate that people are pouring lukewarm cups of tea down the drain?

      d) none of the above

      2 Does CO2

      a)  emit and absorb EM radiation in the infra-red or long wave section of the EM spectrum?

      b) emit coolness in the EM when struck by EM radiation in the long wave section of the EM spectrum?

      c)  Cool the planet by blocking the sun’s rays?

      d)  Have absolutely no effect on anything because it is uneffected by EM radiation?

      Let’s see if you are worth answering by answering those questions.

    • Joe says:

      11:35am | 04/02/10

      Is this Nick Champion guy for real. I don’t know if this article is a joke or just a disgrace.

    • Rafe says:

      11:11am | 04/02/10

      When someone puts together a decent argument (Bill) I notice that James resorts to what can only assumed to be some form of name calling. Come on James, Bill has brought forward a perfectly good rebuttal (which I 100% agree with). What have you got to bring to the table?

    • Keith says:

      11:05am | 04/02/10

      so sceptics are bad because they are, um, sceptical ?
      I don’t think I should take advice on climate science from a shop steward.

    • James says:

      10:09am | 04/02/10

      Bill for Chirst’s sake learn to break up your paragraphs.  Your ramble has clearly come directly (possibly even a cut an paste job) from the Chris Monkton lecture you have just been to.

    • johnson says:

      08:32am | 04/02/10

      thanks Nick… just looking through your published background, maybe you should stick to your duties as the floor fire fire warden instead of commenting on matters of national consequence which clearly you have no qualifications to do… apart from misrepresentation and distortion which seems to be well within your capacity.

    • Greg Locock says:

      10:23pm | 03/02/10

      Very weak article. paras 1 and 2 are coherent, but there is a massive jump in assumptions to get to para 3.

      I didn’t bother reading the rest, on the vague assumption that there was some logical sequence in the argument.

      Just goes to show, yer average pollie can’t put together a logical argument that lasts for 4 sentences.  Stick to shouting at each other in Parliament, is my advice.

    • Rafe says:

      07:00pm | 03/02/10

      @James

      “if we act to prevent global warming and we are wrong we have a new energy system.”

      I’m sorry, what?
      A new energy system: This is news to me or have you changed topics? We’re talking about ‘Global Warming’ and ‘C02 Emissions’, where was new energy sources? Renewable has been mentioned a few times, but that is not new, and there is yet to be a model proposed that actually replaces the worlds dependency on fossil fuels with renewable ones. Can you stay on topic here?

    • James says:

      05:02pm | 03/02/10

      Well let me break it down for you:

      The globe is warming, not even many sceptics deny this now.

      The vast majority of the worlds scientists in all scientific disciplines related to global warming agree that the primary cause is CO2 emissions from human activities.

      The concensus view is that the rate at which the planet is warming is very dangerous.

      A minority of scientists do not agree that humans are causing the warming but consider this.

      If we act to prevent global warming and we are right the planet is saved

      if we act to prevent global warming and we are wrong we have a new energy system.

      If we don’t act to prevent global warming and there is no global warming the climate movement eats large spoonfulls of humble pie and we have to change over our energy systems at some point anyway.

      If we don’t act to prevent global warming and there is global warming, predictions are that millions could die and that the world may suffer a 20% decline in GDP.


      In short if you are a sceptic, you want to be pretty sure that you are right as this is a very high stakes game.

    • Scientific Retard says:

      10:12am | 04/02/10

      Thank you for ‘spelling it out’, but what you and your side have neglected to tell me is what do I have to pay out of my hard earned money to “see” if you are right???

      Sorry but until that cost is also “spelled out” I am inclined to lean away from your side, because:

      1) The sceptics aren’t accusing anyone of being no better than terrorists

      2) “humble-pie” isn’t going to cut it if my kids can’t afford to be fed because of the money taken away rom me to “see if this is right”

      3) Before us humans rocked up and started living on this planet, the polar ice caps advanced and retreated themselves…...so either way mother nature, not people will decided when she wants to have a detox and starts to wipe the human race out.

      But hey, as I said the fact that I am scientifically stunted and Krudd has never offered to explain to me what his ETS and CPRS schemes will cost me and livelihood and quality of life…..my gamble lies with the sceptics!!

    • Bill says:

      12:15am | 04/02/10

      If the globe is still warming why are the CRU naughty scientists trying to ‘hide the decline’. Revelations of data manipulation and temperature station omissions and inclusions are of concern in determining what temperatures are really doing, but if we adopt the reliable UAH satellite data we see that we had global warming between 1979 to 1998. The sceptics never had a problem recognising this, it’s the alarmists (in their own emails) which can’t accept the satellite data showing cooling in the last decade or so. Some of the current high profile alarmists were alarmed about an impending ice age 35 years ago, i.e. between 1940 and 1975 we had global cooling, but most alarmists now turn a blind eye to that. Some alarmists would also now like to bury those recalcitrant satellites and go back to thermometers in urban heat islands to get the results they desire. With all our CO2 emissions, if in the last 70 years we have had more cooling years than warming years which rate are you concerned with warming or cooling? If we signed on to a UN world government per draft Copenhagen Treaty we might never have found out about all the more recent fraudulent pronouncements of the UN IPCC. We’ve got hundreds of years to change over to other energy systems, what’s the rush? Better energy systems may also come into being well before they are required. Why adopt expensive, inefficient and unreliable alternatives, if there is no urgency to do so. If we act to make energy more expensive for everyone, won’t the poorest in our own society and in the global society suffer the most. A carbon market means carbon entrepreneurs will get rich, but the flipside of this wealth redistribution, is that the poor could die if they can’t afford higher food and fuel costs.
      If you are an alarmist, you should have realised by now that the IPCC is not a scientific organisation and relies on non-scientific alarmist headlines to promote its cause and secure more funding. We’ve already gone from global cooling to global warming to climate change, so if the current cooling continues some people might start to speculate climate changes naturally, as it has done for billions of years regardless of man’s minor 3% of CO2 emissions and perhaps even nature’s 97% of CO2 emissions. If we overturn our economic system every time an alarmist has a panic attack we could do a great deal of damage to our civilisation and as a result of economic devastation there might well be a flow on effect in terms of environmental devastation. Prosperous nations look after their environment better because they have the resources to do so.
      It is interesting you note that this is a high stakes game yet you only offer to eat humble pie if you are wrong. Perhaps mud pie would be more appropriate, apparently these were selling well in Haiti prior to the earthquake.

    • Blampa says:

      04:38pm | 03/02/10

      james is really nick champion trying to defend his own idiotic stupidity and fraudulent article.  Nuff said

    • Scientific Retard says:

      04:30pm | 03/02/10

      James as I am not a scientist….not one bit of science tallies to me…..heck I don’t even know or understand the science of how my freezer works and the Ice Age movies with the cartoon mammoth Manny etc make more sense than the scienec to me.

      So as far as “credibly explaining the global warming trend….yadda, yadda, yadda answer is…...I can’t and I am inclined to think that the majority of people can’t either and don;t prentend they have to have an answer…..it ain’t my job!

      What I can tell you is that I am being bombarded with arguments for both sides, that seem to me to make equally as much sense (or lack there of) to a scientficly retarded individual like myself.  But what will win me over to one side or the other may be the question to ask…....answer…..the one that doesn’t make me a broke, scavanging, pauper and puts me in the same category as that demented Bin Laden bloke.

      P.S…...what on earth is cold fusion??? Is that what is happening in my freezer

    • James says:

      03:09pm | 03/02/10

      Yes Evan but why are you a sceptic?  What bit of the science doesn’t tally?  How can you credibly explain the global warming trend, without anthropogenic CO2 emissions?  It is all very well to be sceptical but you have to have a credible answer to these questions. 

      Hint:  The views of a cranky old scientist, who is at odds with the vast majority of the scientific community ,and who has had their contentions disproved time and again, are not credible.

      Do you remember the cold fusion con?

    • evan says:

      01:55pm | 03/02/10

      I found something objectionable about almost every line of this substance light, but assertion heavy piece, but let me just start with point one.

      bq. “Climate scepticism is all the rage these days and it’s become very fashionable to doubt the scientists and suspect global fraud.”

      I remember outing myself as a “denier” to some colleagues last year - and it was one of the gutsier things I’ve ever volutarily done. Until you really buck the status quo you have no idea how hard it is to question something like this. It’s not trendy with my friends, family, work colleagues. There’s nothing in it for me to stand up and debate this point - you get loathing, distaste, contempt, ridicule or just pigeon holed as a dumb arse.

      Conclusion: fail, wrong on this and we could strongly argue almost everything else that follows, excepting the banal and rhetorical. Oh wait…that was everything else.

    • James says:

      01:27pm | 03/02/10

      D’oh,

      Consider this, we know that CO2 absorbs and emits electromagntic radiation in infrared range i.e. thermal range, so it radiates some thermal EM radiation back towards the earth, it also passes the absorbed energy to other molecules in the atmosphere as “heat”, which in turn transfers this energy to the land and oceans.

      More CO2 would imply more energy is avaliable to the atmosphere-ocean-water system, this energy is what drives weather.  If there is more energy available in sea surface temperatures for example, are you suggesting this won’t produce stronger cyclones?

    • D'oh says:

      10:52am | 03/02/10

      @James:

      Comprehensive scenario there James.

      “Not limiting emissions will highly likely cause the extreme weather events due to climate change to manifest”

      Okay I indulged you, now demonstrate that it is the human emission contribution that causes this and we can all be happy.

      Until then your scenario is at best conjecture, at worst scare mongering/alarmist/opportunist and the Governments proposed policies a sham.

    • Roger Surf says:

      10:39am | 03/02/10

      So many arguments!

      There might be global warming or cooling but the important issue is whether we, as a human race, can do anything about it.

      There are a host of porkies and not very much truth barraging us everyday so its difficult to know what to believe.

      I think I have simplified the issue in an entertaining way on my blog which includes some issues connected with climategate and “embarrassing” evidence.

      In the pipeline is an analysis of the economic effects of the proposed emission reductions. Watch this space or should I say Blog

      http://www.rogerfromnewzealand.wordpress.com

      Please feel welcome to visit and leave a comment.

      Cheers

      Roger

      PS The term “porky” is listed in the Australian Dictionary of Slang.( So I’m told.)

    • James says:

      10:07am | 03/02/10

      Ok Sceptics here is why you are a threat to national security:

      Most of the public don’t understand climate science in detail, so it is hard for them to distinguish between a the best science and junk science or undue questioning of the best science.

      This will weaken the momentum to act to limit emissions (wo hoo you win, just wait till you see what you have won).

      Not limiting emissions will highly likely cause the extreme weather events due to climate change to manifest ( I know you don’t believe it is going on or we are causing it but indulge me for a minute).

      Extreme weather damages crops, (this will occur at a time that the world population is at world events).

      Large scale damage to crops will mean food shortages in many parts of the world.

      Hungry, resentful people will do whatever it takes to ensure food security (quite rightly).

      This will de stablise many parts of the world.

      Given we live in the world this is a threat to our national security.

    • Chris says:

      05:19pm | 03/02/10

      Speculation is not evidence. Release the raw data; release the programs; release the emails. OOO they DID! Time your moral campaign was shown for what it is, and your irresponsible Labour government tarred and feathered to a person.

    • Randal says:

      06:04pm | 02/02/10

      What a load of left wing tosh and a sign of how desperate those on the side of the IPCC have slumped to, now claiming ‘security concerns’ as a cause of anthropogenic warming… do they know no limits!

      The facts are Nick that the IPCC has admitted to knowingly using a unreviewed report, in which the authors later retracted their claims, stating that there would be an increase in ‘natural disasters’ as a result of anthropogenic warming, they now admit that this claim was false, a retraction deliberately left out by the IPCC.

      So a question for you, if the AGW claims are real, why the lies, the exaggerations?

      If it is so terrifying, why not just state it as is and not as Professor Lal has admitted that he did an put in a false claim on the basis that it would “influence policy-makers”

      These are the facts that you expect the community to sign off on so you can have your ‘Big Fat Tax’, well from today’s polls it is becoming clear that the community has woken up.

      So push your ETS and alarmism at your peril, we welcome it, as the harder you ram the ideology down our throats the more likely this will be a one term government.

    • Tom says:

      05:15pm | 02/02/10

      Whilst we are here I would just like to condemn the Rudd government’s response to the issue. He claims it is a grave threat to civilisation as it stands. If this is so, how come the scheme he has proposed to mitigate it is so pathetic? Time and time again it has been shown the CPRS will do next to nothing to reduce emissions, and even if it did, the targets are so laughable as to be insignificant. The only people it will benefit will be a few merchant bankers who will doubtlessly find a way to turn a buck out of it. If you truly believe it is as serious as you say it is, Mr. Rudd and Ms. Wong, then propose a scheme that will actually do something.

      At least with Howard and the Liberals you knew where they stood on the issue, whereas with this mob all we are getting is mealy mouthed double speak; talking big and yet doing nothing about it.

    • former labor voter says:

      05:10pm | 02/02/10

      Nick, this was good for a laugh until I read your bio and realised you are an elected politician. Then I found it disturbing. I hope all politicians running against you in the next election make countless copies of this pure example of lunacy and distribute it throughout your electorate. You have seriously lost the plot my man. This is all about carbon trading derivatives - nothing more nothing less.

      CPRS - Can’t People Recognize a Scam.

    • James says:

      04:52pm | 02/02/10

      Saskia says:02:04pm | 02/02/10

      What a nutty and hysterical load of cobblers.  Vilify those that question or have different opinions.

      ——————————————————————————-

      “Different opinions” would be putting it mildly, the ravings of scientifically illiterate, grumpy old men would be more accurate.  They are different opinions like people who believe that cyrstals heal cancer have different opinions.

    • Jacqueline Dalrymple says:

      04:29pm | 02/02/10

      A village is missing an idiot somewhere! Really, is this loon representative of Labor pollies? Talk about a massive logical leap! Someone doesn’t believe that man is controlling the weather and this automatically means that they don’t care about their country’s security, or would somehow betray their country eh? What a bunch of alarmist claptrap. Pretty dumb.

    • My Real Name says:

      04:25pm | 02/02/10

      Today’s Champion, tomorrow’s ex-backbencher.

    • Saskia says:

      02:04pm | 02/02/10

      What a nutty and hysterical load of cobblers.  Vilify those that question or have different opinions.  Seems to be a Labor trait. If anyone would put a snippet of time researching AGW it would be clear that it is utter rubbish.  We all want a clean green planet you goose!  Mother nature and that little thing called the Sun control the Earth’s temps and always have done.  The Earth’s temperature is and always has been in a state of flux.  Clearly doctored graphs and scary warnings are not enough to fool clear thinking Australians into being sold a massive tax in order to make Al Gore and his banker mates rich while doing F all for the planet.

    • PkrPlyr says:

      01:44pm | 02/02/10

      Lol…‘mainstream opinion’...yeh right Nick.

    • Geoff Brown says:

      01:42pm | 02/02/10

      James@11.48am

      After your ad-homs you say: What in holy hell does the climate of Mars have to do with anthropogenic climate change…?” Exactly, so if Mars is warming in concert with planet Earth, does that prove something…hhmmmm..

    • James says:

      01:35pm | 02/02/10

      It’s the sun is it?  Well thanks for that amazing insight, maybe you should tell the world’s climate scientists they are wasting their time.  You may want to put on your best nappie when you present your brilliant analysis.  Whatever you do make sure you film it and post it on YouTube we could all do with a laugh.

    • James says:

      09:48am | 03/02/10

      The same Bob Carter who is a member of the Institute of Public Affairs, the same Bob Carter who has about zero crediblity in the wider Australian Scientific community?  Are we talking about that Bob Carter?
      Yes I did laugh.

      Next you will tell me about Ian Plimer, the same Ian Plimer who is a liability to every Earth Science department he goes to, not because he is a brilliant maverick but because he is an egotistical old fool.  And don’t try and tell me different, I had him as a lecturer.

    • It's the Sun, Stupid! says:

      12:26pm | 02/02/10

      Ah!  The consensus of 2,500 (or is it 4,000?) ‘climate scientists’ so beloved of good ol’ Uncle Al Gore!

      When the real ‘peer-reviewed’ results are examined from the UN IPCC reports, and in particular the ‘Summary for Policymakers’ (largely written by bureaucrats) the actual number of ‘scientists’ diminishes to less that the fingers of one hand ....

      And then we have the leaked emails and computer codes from the CRU at the University of East Anglia, and the ‘fudged’ Australian Bureau of Meteorology temperature records for Darwin, the ‘peer review’ for the IPCC coming from Greenpeace, WWF, school boy essays - I could go on.

      When is Senator Wong and her colleagues going to answer the questions posed by Senator Steve Fielding?  When these question are answered - ‘peer reviewed’ of course - so that it can be shown unequivocally that increased CO2 is causing catastrophic warming and ‘extreme weather events’, to say nothing of the polar ice melting (and the Himalayan!), etc. then we’ll listen.

      In the meantime perhaps you might like to explain to us why you want us to believe that in every 85,800 molecules of air, a single CO2 molecule produced by humans warms the planet yet the other 32 produced by Nature does not.  To believe that means that either your are totally naive and gullible or are perhaps insane!

    • Charles Camenzuli says:

      12:22pm | 02/02/10

      Unfortunately this is another piece of unsubstantiated verbosity, now so well atributed to K Rudd and Co. This gov can’t even negotiate to get a load of economic tourists off one of or boats let alone handling our national security.

      Nicks artical is total unsi\ubstantiated and assumes the science is settled Dr Roy Spencer has only recently stated that the science is not settled and that it has been hijacked by the politicians.

      What happended to Copenhagen and where is K Rudd now on the matter. His silience is deafening. This is another failed endeavour. Grocery watch, fuel watch, taking over the Hospitals, Housing for the Aboriginals, The Chinese stimulus package. K Rudd still needs to explain his schredding of Documents in the Queensland coverup Hiener affair. See this link http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/goss/

      good luck Australia.

    • James says:

      11:48am | 02/02/10

      @ Proudly nuts

      No way PS I want some of the crack you’ve been smoking, it seems to make you hullcinate and draw random connections to the planets man.

      What in holy hell does the climate of Mars have to do with anthropogenic climate change (and my question)?  there are no men on Mars despite what you may be seeing through your crack haze.

      I’ll leave you to count the fluffy pink mushroom men you are probably seeing

    • James says:

      04:46pm | 02/02/10

      No actually, if you read the article it says that stronger winds are causing darker dust to be more prominant at the surface of mars changing its Albedo.  My question still stands.

    • James says:

      11:17am | 02/02/10

      Proud Skeptic says:10:54am | 02/02/10

      The answer is the sun, my friend. It heats Mars as well if you’re interested to know.) ?

      ————————————————

      Ah dear, I rest my case.

    • Proud Skeptic says:

      10:54am | 02/02/10

      Whatever you’re on, Nick, can I have some? I haven’t laughed so hard in ages… this drivel is hilarious. So, just because someone thinks that the science should be challenged when it comes to man-made carbon pollution (and yes, we’re talking about the plant food variety of carbon), you think they are also soft on border protection… ROFL (Oh, and by the way, your most important question regarding the cause of global warming? The answer is the sun, my friend. It heats Mars as well if you’re interested to know.)

    • James says:

      10:46am | 02/02/10

      How many of you climate sceptics have a degree in science?

      How many of you actually know how much GHG humans produce? 

      How many of you understand the botzmann constant? 

      How many of you believe that smoking isn’t harmful? 

      How many of you actually understant what solar iradience data actually tells you?

      How many of you know how much GHG is produced by volcanic eruptions and other natural sources?

      How many of you know understand the basic energy flux model of planet earth?

      How many of you know the actual temperature trend of planet earth?

      And most importantly how to you explain global warming without increased anthropogenic GHG emissions?

      How many prominant climate sceptics work for fossil fuel intensive industries?

      There are plenty more of these questions you have to be able to answer before you shoot off your uneducated mouths.

    • Brian B says:

      10:40am | 02/02/10

      Nick old son, you’ll be in the boss’s good books. How proud Kevin will be - a budding champion spinmiester!!

      Really stretching it with the “threat to national security” it though.

    • Case says:

      10:11am | 02/02/10

      As you wish….“IT’S CRAP”.

    • Katie says:

      09:23am | 02/02/10

      Gee Tim
      You would rather believe a bunch of alarmist IPCC people who have printed fraudulent information to scare people.

      How is the ETS/CPRS going to change the climate?  By how much 1 degree/2 degrees - what is it 1 billion dollars = 1 degree.  Then Australian has to come to a grinding halt - how is that going to help?  No job, so no food, no power, no cars.

      Society prospers when we have power and jobs = get with the program or would you rather be back in the dark ages, I for one don’t want to go back to cooking on an open fire, reading by candlelight etc
      For goodness sake!

    • GAZ says:

      08:54am | 02/02/10

      You are getting a bit fuzzy headed Nick.
      1. Sceptics are soft on defence and border protection??? Yeah, Alan Jones and Andrew Bolt are really soft on border protection while Kevin Rudd is just so STRONG!
      2. What exactly is wrong with getting richer, having more jobs and being happier? Labor policy must be the opposite: let’s all get poorer, have more unemployement and be miserable.

    • REL says:

      08:45am | 02/02/10

      The biggest risk to national security is the stupidity and hypocrisy of the Labour Party and its sycophantic MSM pals who are unwilling to countenance any deviation from the party line. The ultimate endorsement for your bullshit has just come from Bin Laden…with friends like that etc etc. Onya Nick!!! You’re a champion!!  You can bet your bottom dollar KRudd is at this very moment trying to work out how to spin backwards from this almighty stinking mess. You might give some thought to doing the same

    • Kenny says:

      07:38am | 02/02/10

      It is the sun, stupid!

    • 6clegs says:

      01:31am | 02/02/10

      Me thinks more than a few raw nerves have been smacked.

      I do wonder though at the skeptics who claim to be greener than Bob Brown - having a dollar each way, maybe?

      If anything, I don’t think the Labor Party goes far enough cutting emissions. 5% IMO is a joke.

    • David says:

      12:34am | 02/02/10

      For all of you interested in the nature of the battle all scientists face in studying climate science, simply go to the NASA website. You will find that no-one truly knows the effect of carbon emissions upon the atmosphere in combination with every other factor affecting the world we live in. I am a sceptic, but I believe the place to start in protecting our planet lies at our feet in toxic chemicals, rubbish and fertile land turned arid, desecration of arable land for human development, generally the lack of regard for a sustainable biosphere. This is the most immediate problem facing Earth. Remove the poisons from the sky, land and water, then worry about the carbon turning the place into an oven/fridge/freezer.

    • Wendy Bell says:

      03:26pm | 04/02/10

      Good point David.  While the AGW alarmists bang on about reducing CO2 the world’s attention is diverted away from the problem of real pollution.  Similarly, people are starving while the AGW fanatics call for more land to be diverted to growing plants for bio-fuel.  AGW alarmists aren’t just wrong, they’re immoral.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      10:04am | 02/02/10

      SPOT ON David.

      The problem is that we live in a world of ignorant reactionary bandwagon jumpers. Sure the pollution you describe may be killing our planet - and yes, undoubtedly it’s a far more serious problem than human CO2 emissions - but the alarmist fearmongering of global warming is the bandwagon jumpers’ cause du jour, so that’s what we’re stuck with.

    • D'oh says:

      12:23am | 02/02/10

      Well, after reading through all that, all that is left to say is:

      Nick Champion….EPIC FAIL!!

      I also note the distinct absence of the usual Labor AGW believing sycophants.  Nick’s not a great ambassador for you lads & ladies now is he…....

    • JeffT says:

      12:08am | 02/02/10

      The bleating from Mr Nick Champion about those National Security Threats calling themselves Climate Sceptics, signals there must be something happening in Adelaide.
      Surprise, surprise, Adelaide is about to be host to Lord Christopher Monckton, speaking on the balanced view of Climate Change, accompaied by Professor Ian Plimer, author of the book “Heaven and Earth”- Global Warming: The Missing Science - venue:
      ADELAIDE Thursday4 February 19:30 Public lecture Intercontinental Hotel (formerly Hyatt) North Terrace contact: Damian Wyld, thomasmore@chariot.net.au, Ph 08 8379 0246
      So as that date comes closer, expect more bleating, more alarmist rhetoric from Mr Nick Champion and his mentors PM Kevin Rudd and Sen P Wong, who won’t let the facts get in the way of a good scare.

    • My Name says:

      12:06am | 02/02/10

      The records only go back 150 years genius. After that it’s proxy. And seeing as most skeptic “arguments” are based on proxy data you’re shooting yourself in the foot with this comment.

    • Ian W says:

      11:50pm | 01/02/10

      “Sceptics are soft on our defence, soft on border protection, and soft on our national security”? Who are you trying to kid with this tripe? The support base of the warmist fools (read ALP) includes the same people who have now decided to hand our cash to the Taliban and simply give in to anyone heading our way in a boat!

    • Graham says:

      11:01pm | 01/02/10

      Got the message by now, Nick?

      Now get back on your meds and rack off!

    • Chris says:

      11:01pm | 01/02/10

      Mate,

      Could not have said it better myself - sorry to hear about your mates. They are all in our prayers.

    • thomas vesely says:

      10:52pm | 01/02/10

      myth busted.

    • Ian F says:

      10:01pm | 01/02/10

      I had a quick glance at this article but then realised it was only 1 February.  Surely it could have been held over for a couple of months?

    • Susan A says:

      09:17pm | 01/02/10

      Nick, Shame on you for perpetrating this absolute piece of hogwash. There is little need for me to reiterate what has been so eloquenty put already.  What is offensive is that you are given free reign to perpetuate this unmitigated and unfounded alarmism and possibly even more disturbing is your utter belief in what you write.  Listen to what is said and do some research.
      People are tired of being treated with disdain. The Ruddite litany has been shown as a grand standing moronic attempt at obfuscation of the truth.
      Please, if you can add the disclaimer that no harm has or will be done to any living person or creature by the proposed inanity of Rudds propositions then perhaps someone will listen. Since I sincerely doubt you could then I refuse to listen to any more of this posturing of the alleged threat to national security.

    • Dave Coolman says:

      09:17pm | 01/02/10

      Dear Nick.
      I agree with you those filth unpatriotic skeptics hording their hard earned big oil pay off money, instead of sharing it with a bunch of professional government sponsored green policy wonks and honorable politicians like yourself, those hateful ignorant masses should have never been allowed to go to school now they can read and write but worse of all they can use computers to spread their lies through the internet about the poor under paid AGW believers, the shame is the only time AGW people they have any fun is when they fly first class to exotic locations to stay in shoddy five star resorts to attend boring climate conferences, the very thought brings tears to my arctic colored eyes.

      We need drastic action, here’s what I suggest, prompted by your suggestion that our national security is being under mined by heretics and skeptics.

      It has scared the hell out of me!  It is abundantly clear from your article that the real enemy is in our midst!

      I suggest a Kruud style take over of the Australian Internet and phone lines and censoring all pro Skeptic news, blogs and phone conversations.

      In addition I suggest an new department be set up it could be called the Ministry of Truth and Reconciliation, with flying squads of attitude adjustment adjudicators to search out skeptics and Kruud march them to AGW reorientation camps.

      I think a good technique wood be to adapt the method of mind retrogression used in the movie Clock Work Orange against Alex (Malcolm McDowell) to cure him of his violent ways.

      This technique would sharpen their mind to a pinpoint laser fixation on evils of CO2 and preparing them for a bit of ultra climate change acclimation.

      To my way of thinking if Australia has a population of 35 Million, then there would only be approx 6 or 7 million skeptics. They need to be rounded up. There are many benefits to this, here is what we know about the evils of skepticism!

      1: Skeptics do not work for an honest living.

      2: Skepticism spreads like wildfire at the very mention of any word finishing with “gate” or “Gore”

      3: That skeptics are paid by big oil and coal to sit at home inventing scary stories that climate change is always changing and should be expected.
      4:They torment poor hard working AGW people and the long suffering the scientist at CRU, NASA, NOAA ….. Who work for next to nothing in grants? CRU $19 Million poor Phil Jones.

      5: Skeptics have strange belief systems that actually belief the Earth is flat and the good people at IPPC are encouraging the good scientist to manipulate data?

      So if this riff raff is removed, inquisitionized and reoriented they can later be flown to the Climate change conferences to dress as polar bears in support of IPPC, helping Al Gore avoid nasty irritating skeptics.

      I think a $100.000 per skeptic should cover the conversion cost, this would be a good investment as the converted could vote in a block for Kruud like clones ensuring the tax of your life, (your children’s, children’s life as well) continues for the thousand year Kruud like first Tax Reich.  With the ever-increasing ETS there would be money to burn.

      The skeptic converts could also recoup some of the re-education expenses by renting them out to Movie Company’s making horror movies Such as: Al Gore next movie “Ice An Inconvenient Cold” as Kruudy Awful Zombie Army trying to get Al and Kruud holed up in his Ice Castle and rescued by Greenpeace.

      And lastly they can then be located at strategic defense locations around the Australian coastline on the look out for global warming / global cooling or CO2 molecules. Therefore eliminating the need for the present armed forces. Solving Kruuds backbencher’s fears of imminent lost of security in the face of the ever-growing skeptical menace.   

      I know that this sound far fetch but which one is stranger Nicks article or mine????

    • Lewy says:

      10:41pm | 01/02/10

      Haha well done

    • Phil says:

      09:59pm | 01/02/10

      Brilliant. Just brilliant.

    • Razor says:

      08:44pm | 01/02/10

      James,

      None of those articles point to proof that human produced GHG is causing the warming.  They do show the globe is warming.

      Can you give a link to an article that proves that human generated GHGs are the cause of global warming and by how much?

    • Zeta says:

      08:44pm | 01/02/10

      BUT COLGO, HE DARES TO OFFER AN OPINION THAT DOES NOT AGREE WITH MY OWN, AND SIMPLY REFUSES TO ADMIT THAT I HAVE AN IMPRESSIVE COLLECTION OF LINKS.

    • Charles Kelly says:

      08:30pm | 01/02/10

      If you climate change alarmists believe so strongly in this new religion of yours, why don’t you VOLUNTARILY contribute a major amount of your time and income to your “necessary” cause? If it was really THAT urgent and important, you’d all be jumping at the chance to do as much as you possibly can! Why then, are you not? Why are most of you still driving cars, using electrical appliances and eating meat? What are you waiting for? Why is your “urgent” action contingent on the evil “deniers” also footing the bill for your fanaticism?

    • Craig Mc says:

      08:12pm | 01/02/10

      Wow!  What a spectacular display of idiocy, not to mention ignorance.  I often wondered how bad the back bench talent must be if the front bench is so dismal.  Now I know.

    • Aaron says:

      08:03pm | 01/02/10

      Nick your a modern day Winston Churchill but before he was proven to be right unfortunately. 

      I think to not act on Man Made Climate Change is like playing Russian Roulette.  The problem is that if the sceptics are wrong and they succeed in molifying all attempts to act that they have put the gun to all of our heads. 

      ‘The majority of experts on this matter say we must act or face dire consequences.’  Now can all the sceptics read that 1000 times because it seems like your all abit slow on the uptake.  Sure Man Made Climate Change is not 100% proven but neither was gravity before Newton had apple bang him on the head.  Sceptics need to realise the gravity of what it is they are campaining for and the outcome if they are wrong..

      We all wish climate change was not happening.  Though thats not the case now is it.  I wish the sceptics would actually take just a single second to think of the consequences of each course of action.  If they did and they were not dysfunctional in some way they would realize that we must act. 

      This problem is a wake up call that sustainable living is not an option its a must that eventually we have to accept.  Global Warming is the alarm bell. ALERT ALERT ALERT!

      If we act so much good can come from this on so many levels.  Sceptics your simply on the wrong side of history and time will prove it.  Lets just hope that what Nick is talking about is averted because if its not the blame will fall solely on the sceptics shoulders.

    • Darryl Price says:

      07:43pm | 01/02/10

      “The fact is that sceptics are soft on our defence, soft on border protection, and soft on our national security.” On it’s own an outrageous claim, justified by drawing a looooong bow. On that same basis one might claim a worldwide agreement on a CPRS would be might be responsible for more deaths in China through the increase in illegal coal mining activity, accommodation and rental car business in regional Australia may collapse, airline services to those same areas may be cut tenfold, Australia may face greater urbanisation of populations and the associated housing shortage in those areas sees families living under freeway overpasses. You have put a lot of thought into this article; clearly your own belief is that the AGW basis for your ETS is shaky and needs a prop up. I hope Kevin appreciates your effort.

    • The Drover says:

      07:23pm | 01/02/10

      Nick, can you come out from under that rock you have been living under for the last 2 years and have a look around, the bullshit is falling apart. AGW is a scam and the revelations are going to keep coming, Chairman Rudd is starting to understand that his Cultural Revolution based on AGW is over, even your great God Obama has woken up, as for National Security, what have you personally or your Government ever done for that, Rudds ferry service to Xmas Island? and I speak as an ex-serviceman.

    • S.L says:

      07:17pm | 01/02/10

      Fair request Paul but what gives Mr Champion a licence to tie climate sceptics in with soften our nation’s security laws?  I think it offensive to any law abiding Australian whether we agree with him or not.

    • Wayne Hutchins says:

      07:16pm | 01/02/10

      Anna Bligh, our wonderful Qld Premier announced in November that as of the 1st of December 2010, for a total of $45.00 you can offset the carbon footprint of your car. I am ashamed to say (not) that us Queenslanders are skeptics! It was on the channel ten news tonight that only 165 people have taken up the offer. 165 people in Queensland think this issue serious enough to put their hand in their own pocket.
      Nick, you are one big massive joke. As an ex soldier I take offence at being labelled a threat to national security. I done my bit. What have you done but bludge off the public purse. Your seats gone next election as you just offended over half of your own constituents. You sir are a fool.

    • Chris says:

      07:00pm | 01/02/10

      There are a great many sceptics who believe the earth IS warming due to human activity.
      What they are sceptical of are: the political motives behind such schemes as the CPRS/ETS; the ham-fisted, opportunistic talk-fests such as Copenhagen; and the overly emotional rhetoric used by rabid left-wing ideologists as they shout down all critics.

    • Paul Colgan

      Paul Colgan says:

      06:55pm | 01/02/10

      Folks, can I draw your attention to The Punch’s community agreement - please keep it civil and avoid repetition, ad hominem attacks, and capital letters.

    • Jimi Bostock says:

      10:30pm | 02/02/10

      mate, i think you need to factor in the outrage when one is suggested to be placing our nation at risk simply by questioning complex science. The author is the problem and has been so guilty of ad hominem attacks.

      get out of the way of this debate

    • You Get What You Give says:

      09:18pm | 01/02/10

      Paul Colgan…..civility is a two way street, if he wants to put it out there that I am a threat to national security then I reserve the right to tell this climate change Hitler where to shove his accusations.

    • steve says:

      08:43pm | 01/02/10

      Well Tom you would have had a point, except when it became apparent that the Cabal that was based at the CRU at East Anglia would pressure journal publishers to keep out articles that criticised their AWG views, then accuse the Non confirming authors of lacking credibility for not getting peer reviewed articles printed.
      Some times academics can be a pretentious lot. Climate gate exposed that for the compliant author the peer review process was reduced to little more than getting your mate to check the spelling.
      If the IPCC report was a legal brief the prosecution would have been thrown out of court with the sort of holes that have been brought forward. In law if one part of the case is fatally flawed the whole case is rejected. Not so with science?
      Your sighting of William Connolley’s blog “RealClimate” is hardly an impartial source; it is a back bone for the AWG believer though his reputation did take a bit of a battering when he was sacked as a website administrator from Wikipedia. Apparently over the years he rewrote almost 5,500 articles, nearly 500 completely disappeared and over 2000 contributors found their access blocked because they did not agree with WC’s views. So much for open debate, Go figure.

    • Grumbles says:

      06:31pm | 01/02/10

      Not a single link indicating an unrefutable link between Carbon Dioxide and the temperature. 13 links related to temperature observations, why would anyone need to refute any of it? I don’t think anyone denies that the temperature has risen… and fallen in the past, that the seas have risen and fallen and that drought and floods happen. Where is the direct linear coorelation between temperature and carbon dioxide, what is its forcing effect and what will happen if we all half the amount of Carbon Dioxide we use and the earths population doubles?

    • Ronnie says:

      06:21pm | 01/02/10

      Your article mentiones “it’s become very fashionable to doubt the scientists and suspect global fraud”.

      Have you not been keeping up to date with the LIES, DECEPTION and OUTRIGHT FRAUD that has been discovered regarding scientists and so called facts about global warming.

      CLIMATEGATE
      GLACIERGATE
      AMAZONGATE
      PACHAURIGATE

      Clearly not!

    • Martin G says:

      06:17pm | 01/02/10

      Rest assured you will be near the bottom of my ballot ticket, Mr Champion. This article, high on accusations and assumptions, and low on facts, shows you are not fit to represent me or my electorate.

      I’m sure your working-class constituents will appreciate your government’s attempts to tax them to hell and send their jobs overseas.

      Perhaps you should open your eyes to what a laughingstock the IPCC has become.

    • Joe says:

      06:17pm | 01/02/10

      National Security? What a joke.

      The real risk is that we implement Rudd’s Great Big New Tax that ruins our economy with no other countries following and doesn’t do anything to reverse something that may not even be happening,  and if it was happening isn’t a threat to the planet but is normal.

      Next they will try to tie it to the aging population or something.

    • Tom says:

      06:14pm | 01/02/10

      You state in your article “The threat of climate change to our society, our environment and our economy has been well debated”.
      What BS!
      You mean we have been brainwashed by the fanatical followers of the Church Of Al Gore.
      Any opposition to their point of view is met with ABUSE and DENIGRATION.

      In my book that is hardly an open and HONEST debate!

      You mean it is YOR way or the highway!

    • Grumbles says:

      06:13pm | 01/02/10

      By Climate deniers do you mean people that…

      a) deny there is a climate?
      b) deny that the climate is changing? or
      c) deny that the climate is primarily influenced by humans?

      Cause i’ve never met an a or b before.

    • Phil says:

      06:06pm | 01/02/10

      Priceless commentary Zeta as usual.

    • Bellezyx says:

      06:05pm | 01/02/10

      I am a climate change sceptic because the numbers don’t add up and the statistics are ‘confidential’, which I find appalling.  I strongly support a shift away from fossil fuel reliance.  I ride a bike, I don’t own a car, I don’t eat meats and seafoods, I buy almost exclusively locally produced foods and try to avoid items with a fat ecological footprint, I reduce and reuse, I am growing a permaculture garden, I have a rainwater tank for household use and solar panels.  Please don’t conflate a scepticism of flaky soft science with a lust for environmental vandalism.

    • Bill says:

      05:53pm | 01/02/10

      Glad to hear sceptics are now fashionable. The sceptics have been sacked or censured or locked out of discussion, called by every abusive term you can get away with in the mainstream media and yet here we are. Perhaps sceptics feel they have to stick up for integrity in science, before considering any one of numerous other peripheral issues Mr Champion is concerned about. Fraud is redefined here as ‘minor errors in massive reports’. If we take out the ‘minor’ errors there may be nothing much left to worry about. The IPCC employs many scientists but prefers to use unsubstantiated alarmist material to ‘beef up’ the reports and the secure more funding. Which part of ‘climategate’, ‘glaciergate’ and similar recent headlines is this bloke having difficulty with?

    • Aaron says:

      05:49pm | 01/02/10

      Do any non sceptic comments get published?

    • Robbo says:

      07:38pm | 01/02/10

      Yeah Aaron. Nick Champion’s comment got published. Sounds pretty non-sceptic to me.

    • Wayne Hutchins says:

      07:18pm | 01/02/10

      Don’t like being in the minority anymore hey Aaron. Get used to it mate, you backed a looser…

    • Robbo says:

      05:45pm | 01/02/10

      Nice try Nick but no-where in your Labor-spruiking piece did you mention “over-population” as a cause of food and water shortages. Labor wants to reduce Australia’s carbon emissions but at the same time is pushing for a ‘big’ Australia with a population of 36 million in 2050. More people, less emissions. Please tell me how this can work?

    • Aaron Hilton says:

      05:35pm | 01/02/10

      TWO PLANETS PLEASE!
      I wish we had two planets so the sceptics could wipe out massive amounts of bio diversity, saturate their atmoshpere with polutants and then fight to the bitter end when the oil really starts to run out on their own planet. 
      Then the people that care about the this sacred place our Mother Earth could work to creating a way of life that is sustainable.  It would likely be a bit bumpy at first though the light at the end of the tunnel would be a great motivator. 
      Though this is not possible.  I think as people most sceptics are very selfish people and think nothing of generations to come and give little value to the natural environment.  We have decimated the planets eco systems in the last 100 years and you guys just don’t care, you think that changing the chemical composition of a sealed environment will not make any difference, lol thats chemistry 101…  If the future the sceptics so ardently campaign for wasn’t so horribly dangerous they would be respectable.
      We must press on a save what we can, we cannot let them lead us too our demise for we have come so far.  The horizon has so much to offer us if we could just look out of this tar pit of fossil fuel and see the light of a greater world. 
      To the sceptics that read this please for the love of everything you hold dear do not risk a future of a decimated natural environment for the sake of some money in your pocket.  For like a child that loses its mother, once gone there will not be anything in the world that you would not give to get her back. 
      I as person who shares this planet with you am begging you please please please lets save what we have before our hands are so blooded with greed and selfishness that we will never be able to clean them.

    • james cameron says:

      10:59am | 02/02/10

      Maybe we can all go and live on Pandora and be at one with nature like Jake Scully!

    • Carl Palmer says:

      05:32pm | 01/02/10

      Dear Member for Wakefield,

      Many folks here have gone to great lengths to inform themselves about AGW. Here at the punch, there have been many debates and yes some very emotional on this subject.  Some would certainly challenge the quality and scope of the debates that come out of Canberra. So no – they are not always “it’s crap” arguments as you refer.

      I’m a sceptic and I’m not convinced that it is the “greatest moral challenge of our time.” Why? As someone has already pointed out, why not seriously debate the Nuclear option? Could that be a little difficult to take into battle?? Starting to go soft already?

      Every one of the G20 nations are investigating, planning or building Nuclear power plants except one country…..yep you guessed it right – Australia. As Dr Ziggy_Switkowski stated quite a few months ago, it is the only option available today that will have the quickest response to the increase in CO2 - GHG.

      If you have done your homework you would know that “no economy of Australia’s size or larger is without nuclear power” so why not? So until this is taken seriously I will question your intentions and the various “solutions” that you will propose.
      Please read “Australia must add a dash of nuclear ambition to its energy agenda” by Dr Ziggy_Switkowski – 3/12/2009 SMH. This makes perfect sense to me yet it is never debated. I’ll make it easier for you http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/australia-must-add-a-dash-of-nuclear-ambition-to-its-energy-agenda-20091201-k3pq.html

      Oh and don’t forget that a former ALP PM also suggested that Australia should store the worlds nuclear waste here is Australia and that would / could revolutionise Australia’s economy. All this without using “it’s crap”.

    • WA Aggie says:

      05:30pm | 01/02/10

      Yep, this one’s pretty bad.  You might want to try taking a LOGIC 101 course as soon as possible, Nick.  And if Labor endorses this load of rubbish, then perhaps you could all get a bulk discount at a college near you.

    • Geoff Brown says:

      05:29pm | 01/02/10

      Ruby Baby,

      I can predict that the Climate will change and I’m a sceptic. The people that dan’t (or more mlikely pretend they don’t) were the fraudsters who produced the “hockeystick” graph. THe “Hockeystick” graph was created fraudulently to “show” that climate hadn’t changed for one thousand years.  Look in the Climategate emails for Jonathan Overpeck, who wrote that “we have to get ris of the Medieval Warm Period.” right before they did just that with the hockey stick.

      Mann, Bradley and Hughes, who created the hockey stick, were the real Climate change deniers.

    • BigBob says:

      05:27pm | 01/02/10

      I dunno about a threat to National Security mate but I wish they would grow a brain and get down to helping fix the problem before they become a threat to our Mental Security. Sooo fed up with listening to their claptrap. Whats the worst that can happen if the scientists are wrong? We get a cleaner world..oh gee that’s a real catastrophe

    • Fog Badger says:

      05:22pm | 01/02/10

      “The fact is that sceptics are soft on our defence, soft on border protection, and soft on our national security”
      “Make no mistake; if you’re a self confessed climate sceptic then you’re as soft as butter on Australia’s defence”

      Isn’t that what is called a ‘straw man’? Take A from person X, turn it into B and discredit person X on B?

      What a complete load of cobblers!

      I am truly concerned if the ALP want to run this line.

    • S.L says:

      05:18pm | 01/02/10

      NOW HANG ON A MINUTE NICK! Our idealogical opposition to overwhelming scientific evidence make us skeptics blind to potential threats that could be caused by climate change. The 2 big words in this sentence are “potential” and “could”! Your “overwhelming” scientific evidence is nothing more than projections and computer graphs and nothing more. Then to try to link our beliefs up with defence, border protection and national security says to me you’ve run out of arguments.

    • Ray Jamieson says:

      05:17pm | 01/02/10

      Mr Champion Sir,
      Your comments are offensive to every human being, and especially this one.  How DARE you pretend to speak on my behalf?

      I do not believe in Global Warming, but if you were a fraction as well informed as you think you are, you’d have read my website http://www.politicalguts.com where I make my views and that of many more people perfectly clear!  I am certainly very strong on defense, border protection and national security.  I am also very strong on cleaning up our environment and getting rid of the real pollution and polluters and sir, in this category, I place you firmly!

      Spouting the garbage you have here disqualifies you as a member of the human race and marks you as a ratbag alarmist, attempting to scare good people into submission and denying them the right to freedom of speech and thought.  Shame on you and shame on your party - take your drivel away to where it can do no further harm and leave this peace loving and currently free democracy to live without your pollution!
      Ray Jamieson

    • Macca says:

      05:16pm | 01/02/10

      Nick, I’d listen to your argument if your Party actually explained the CPRS to the Australian People. Just pushing legislation through without explaining it to the public is sheer arrogance, and you know what, so is your lecturing in this article.

      @The People of Wakefield, It’s your choice whether you want to listen to this drivel for another 4 years… up to you

    • Ted G says:

      05:13pm | 01/02/10

      National Security? Sounds familiar, it’s a crock and you now it!!!!
      If you believe the Governing classes are trust worthy ask how did UK and the USA dragged us into a phoney war in Iraq on the flimsiest of evidence? It’s sort of like AGW evidence isn’t it? Look how Blair and Bush are totally unfazed by the whole disgusting affair. That’s how it will be in 25 years from now. The proponents of AGW will just shrug their shoulders and say we didn’t’ know so it destroyed the economy of the world and set us back A 100 years, tough!!!
      Before the science must come a solid and trust worthy cast. Right now the Mafia would do a better job than the IPPC and the despicable political elite who fill AGWaemists organizations pockets with the public’s rapidly diminishing coffers.
      What delusional world do you live in?
      The IPPC and its UN founders have all contributed to the mistrust of the science. What are the true motives behind the whole AGW issue, it’s show me the money, it’s always been about the money.
      To understand the list below one need a little back ground: Google the UN and it’s food for oil scandal, you will find the one of the principle architects in this whole sordid Global warming affair was a wonderful billionaire socialist Maurice (do as I say, not what I do) Strong who was caught red handed with a $1 million bribe, he now hides out in china? Even the most ardent believer in AGW cannot deny the UN is a cesspool of corruption where greasing the palms is the first order of business.
      So if you really believed in AGW / IPPC and that it is an honest attempt to save the world, why would you let a bunch of Pirates set up and run the organization, Pirates at least seem to have a sense of humour? If AGW prevention is an honourable goal wouldn’t you want the people that set it up and oversee it be beyond reproach?
      It certainly isn’t the UN or the boat load of off colored (polite term) deals and lawsuits that the UN has been involved with, along with his the IPPC president Pachauri own list of dicey deals in India, with questionable charities and businesses that profit greatly from AGW.
      As the list below shows there are to many questions and to many answers that simply don’t add up or ring true, they simply don’t pass the stink test!
      It’s time to clear the decks and start with an honest and fresh appraisal of the whole poisonous affair. So that we, the so-called flat earthier’s also the majority of the public can also believe. So it will take another 4 or 5 years, please let the sunshine into the shadowy places where the grubby deals have been hatched, made and nearly completed. The truth shall set you free. If it true, we can all get on board.
      But it cannot benefit a small cabal of elites with crap and trade deals that take from the poor and give to the rich, It won’t work, it will backfire and set the world back into the a dark unknown that we as humans don’t want to go.
      Any solution must be affordable and practical, but the stench of the IPPC will no longer cut it. Fire them all and start with a clean slate. 
      Try googleing ClimateGate, GlacierGate, AmazonGate, PachauriGate, DisasterGate, GoogleGate, HimalayaGate, HurricaneGate, NasaGate, IpccGate, StormGate, Wikipediagate/WikiGate, RainGate, NoaaGate, EmailGate, CruGate, IceGate, YamalGate, AfricaGate, DarwinGate, WarmingGate, GissGate, and HockeystickGate

    • Ivor Surveyor says:

      05:11pm | 01/02/10

      The errors in the IPCC document are neither minor nor trivial. The errors indicate a culture where objectivity has given away to religious zeal.  To use a phrase coined by Professor Aynsley Kellow “virtuous corruption” in other words the global warming mafia is so convinced of the correctness of its main arguments, it will fabricate any outlandish scenario to drive the point home.

      It is well accepted that over decades or centuries the climate changes.  After all the earths morphology is not static but is in a state of flux. The very ancient Greek philosophy Heraclitus knew this - for you can not bathe in the same river twice.

      We also know from nineteenth century science that CO2, CH4 etc are greenhouse gases.  We also know that the absorption of photons is proportional to the log of gaseous concentration. In other words it is not linear.  An increase in concentration from say 50 to 100 ppm will have a greater increment of effect then say an increase from 380 to 450 ppm.

      A weak correlation between atmospheric CO2 level and the flawed record of surface air temperature is a long way short of proof of causality.  I put it to you that the argument atmospheric CO2 is the sole or principle cause of so called climate change is an example of “virtuous corruption.”  Analogous to the police fabricating a story because they are convinced the prisoner is guilty, but the hard evidence is lacking.

    • Leigh says:

      05:11pm | 01/02/10

      Have just advised Nick that he has lost my vote.  More than happy to pass on to others in my electorate his thoughts on those who dare question the great Rudd.

    • nic says:

      05:09pm | 01/02/10

      What utter guff. I hope you have the courage to campaign using this platform, in your own electorate at the next election

    • wally says:

      05:06pm | 01/02/10

      The Labor spin machine will rewrite the truth no matter what form it takes…..  truth is irrelevant, Nick uses a sliver of fact to build a position…..bit like Kev07 & the Labor machine big on motherhood statements & grandstanding, light on action & content…. dare to disagree with them, and you aren’t debated, you are smeared & discredited…... George Orwell’s assertions have become reality, history is rewritten

    • Macca says:

      05:05pm | 01/02/10

      “These potential threats include food and water scarcity, rising sea levels, increased threat of national disasters like hurricanes, storms and
      flooding”

      Nick, the IPCC confessed last week that there may be no real link between Climate change and the increased threat of natural disasters.

      I consider this the smallest of your horrendous blunders in this article

    • Lach says:

      04:55pm | 01/02/10

      There were definitely more long-bows in that article than the brits had at agincourt!

    • cohenite says:

      04:54pm | 01/02/10

      Unbelivable tripe by Tom; he says there has never been a peer reviewed document disproving AGW!? Here’s 3;
      1 Ferenc Miskolczi [2007] Idojaras; Miskolczi empirically measured the radiative fluxes in the atmosphere and showed the greenhouse effect has not changed in the last 60 years; this is measured by the optical depth [OD] of the atmosphere which is the number of times a photon is absorbed and reemitted between the surface and the top of the atmosphere [toa]; extra CO2 should increase OD but NASA measurements confirm Miskolczi.
      2 Lindzen and Choi [2009]; L&C measured the outgoing long-wave radiation [OLR] from the toa; AGW ‘theory’ says extra CO2 will stop or reduce OLR but L&C found that OLR had increased.
      3 Paltridge et al [2009] Professor Paltridge is Australia’s leading climate scientist; his study found that water vapor [WV] levels had declined; AGW theory says they should increase because CO2 cannot warm enough by itself and requires heating from WV to produce greenhouse warming. This hasn’t happened.

      This article by Mr Champion is a disgrace; the science from the IPCC is now completely discredited; most of it has come from WWF, OXFAM and Greenpeace; the ETS is a giant tax on everything and will reduce Australian standards of living; to say sceptics are a security threat is a monstrous irony coming from a gov’t which gives millions to the Taliban.

    • Tom says:

      03:51pm | 02/02/10

      There seems to be a problem with the formatting of this blog where the replies don’t often seem to get placed in the correct spot, so I’m not sure if you will read this but still…

      I find it ironic that you criticise me of playing the man and not the ball when you go on to do just that yourself; nowhere did you actually refute what was written in the realclimate articles, just state the fact that realclimate is a pro - AGW website. Yes, that means it is biased, but that does not necessarily mean it is incorrect.

      May I ask what exactly would convince you that AGW is happening? You don’t trust peer reviewed science (except when it coincides with your own views), so what exactly is needed? No doubt the East Anglia scandal and WWF contributions to the IPCC report were disturbing, but they amounted to very small portions of a large body of scientific literature on the subject. If we were to dissect the lies, half truths and conflicts of interest present in the works of Ian Plimer, Lord Monckton and Martin Durkin among others we would be here all day. The only way we can be 100% certain that global warming is occurring is after its impacts have occurred. The problem with waiting for such confirmation is by then it will be too late to mitigate its worst effects.

    • Super D says:

      09:14pm | 01/02/10

      LMAO Tom - Science and Nature have severely damaged their reputation and can no longer be considered reputable sources on the subject of climate science.

      As for posting links to realclimate.org the hilarity continues.  You realise that site has zero credibility.  Its run by Mike “Hockey Stick” Mann and the clowns at Hadley CRU who have spent the last decade trying to stop anyone seeing their dodgy work?

      These organistaions and the IPCC have absolutely zero credibility.  You will not convert a single skeptic to the cause until there is a full, open and transparent analysis of the temperature records and statistical methodologies used by Hadley CRU, NOAA and NASA GISS. 

      As it stands none of the data sources can be trusted and any hypothesis validated by this flawed data cannot be accepted.  Not my rules, it’s called the scientific method.

    • cohenite says:

      07:13pm | 01/02/10

      Pretty flacid Tommy; typical ad hom and appeal to prestige; the Lindzen paper, which is the only one with a peer reviewed rebuttal, was published here;

      http://www.drroyspencer.com/Lindzen-and-Choi-GRL-2009.pdf

      prestigious enough for you? This idea of peer review is grotesque given the revelations from the CRU crew about censoring and suppressing contrary views, something that occurs within our very own CSIRO as well as Dr Splash recently found out; but in respect of Miskolczi our govt’s response to his paper is straight out of the play the man not the ball theme park that Tom subscribes too; see:

      http://www.climatechange.gov.au/climate-change/science/climate-sceptics.aspx

      Note the comment about the increase in WV; this is patently wrong as this major new peer reviewed paper reveals;

      http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/science.1182488

      Note the prestigious journal; and BTW Tom, RC is not peer reviewed but is a thoroughly partisan propaganda unit for AGW.

    • JohnScwarz says:

      04:53pm | 01/02/10

      This article has turned into a disaster for Nick Champion! I would be surprised if he ever writes for the Punch again!

    • BULMKT says:

      04:42pm | 01/02/10

      This dude’s punch piece should be filed under “Fwit”

      Quote:“These potential threats include food and water scarcity, rising sea levels, increased threat of national disasters like hurricanes, storms and flooding, and a rise in infectious diseases.”

      the IPCC admits there is no link between global warming and extreme weather.
      http://bit.ly/7CxxP8
      “We find insufficient evidence to claim a statistical relationship between global temperature increase and catastrophic losses.”  - Muir-Wood’s Paper, after peer review 2008.
      “The Idea that catastrophes are rising in cost because of climate change is completely misleading.” Mr Muir-Wood 25 JAN 2010

      Mate, do us and Australia a favour and Move to Venezuela. I’m sure President Hugo Chavez could really use you.

    • Geoff Brown says:

      01:25pm | 02/02/10

      BULMKT says: Quote from Nick: “These potential threats include food and water scarcity.”

      Perhaps, BULMKT, that threat is real. Food and Water are finite, but Mr Rudd wants to import more Labor voters.  36 million by 2050.
      Have they invented more water, yet?
      (From Rudd tilting at Windmills-Terry McCrann [http://www.heraldsun.com.au/business/rudd-tilting-at-windmills/story-e6frfh4f-1225825686283] Two things will happen to our population. It will increase. From 22.2 million now to 25.7 million in 2020 and to 35.9 million in 2050, according to the report.)

    • Bag of Poo says:

      04:41pm | 01/02/10

      Trust me Island View if I ever get in a room with this guy there would be nothing metaphoric about the sh#t i would pour on him…...I’m more of a literal person!

    • Mikko says:

      04:39pm | 01/02/10

      Spoken like a true Labor Champion, Nick,. Sceptics a threat to national security? I think flushing our economy down the gurgler with an ETS which targets a natural trace gas essential to all plant and animal life on earth, is more of a threat to national security than coal mines and aluminium smelters will ever be, and you can’t have it both ways, can you? Your Labor mates in Queensland are actively promoting new mines and vastly increased coal export facilities worth billions of dollars along with at least seven huge liquid natural gas plants, some of which will be built just above sea level on environmentally sensitive Curtis Island. Any conflict of interest there Kevin?
      What will happen when Al Gore’s “seven metre sea level rise in the near future” occurs? Or Peter Garrett’s six metres? or do we believe the IPCS’s 1.1 metres?
      Their idea of the peer review process is along the lines of “I’ll peer review yours if you peer review mine”. We would be much better off protecting our security by being prepared for any extreme weather events which may occur as part of natural cyclical climate change, which has been occurring for millions of years without any help from us.
      CPRS = Can’t People Recognise Scams > According to the latest opinion polls, fortunately 65 percent now say yes and like the IPCC scams, that number is growing daily.

    • Lawless says:

      04:37pm | 01/02/10

      hahahaha if the sceptics aren’t a threat, what are you worrried about..ahem could it just be that they are opposite of your misinformed article? Ah, does make everyone wonder where you get your facts from .... mate try and write something credible hey? I was asked to come and have a look and read it - really the joke must have been on me, there is no content worth considering seriously! Thanks for the laugh keep that misinformation coming, cant wait to see the next chapter haha, A+ for effort~!

    • ACTOldFart says:

      04:35pm | 01/02/10

      Fascinating - few contrary facts, and counter-examples, and the warmenist - alarmist - credulist mob collapse from smug condescension to paranoid panic.

    • Graham says:

      04:35pm | 01/02/10

      Threats and libel aplenty, there, Nick.  Class action is in the wind.  Now get your nose out of all that IPCC junk, trash Al Gore’s comedy flick, give your military ignoramous some knitting to do and switch on the news.

      Attention, lad!  It’s all over!

    • Malcolm Hill says:

      04:32pm | 01/02/10

      Having just read this appalling diatribe of ignorance and malevolence I wont be voting Labour.

      if Ignorant fools like this dill are Members of Parliament the God help us all.

      There is not para graph in his spiel that anyone with half brain could not knock down..but before one would even bother, he would have understand the basic definition of what CC means.

      ie it means both AGW + Natural.

      The thickheads in the ALP have never bothered to realise the import of what it means, including the Lamebrain Lawyers in their cabal of half wits eg Wong and Garrett. You would think they of all people, would get to know the definition of their terms before they go spraying stuff around.

      But then it takes a really delusional mind to formally set up a unit of Govt called ” The Australian Goverment Climate Change Regulatory Authority”

      Why dont you come clean and explain to the mums and dads how you are going to regulate the natural componet of CC…

      What an absolute farce you people are..to think that you are better than KIng Canute

      You people are an international embarrasment.

    • BULMKT says:

      04:33pm | 01/02/10

      Re James @ 304

      Mate look out the window. you are being lead by the progressives!

      It’s a Scam

    • nige says:

      04:31pm | 01/02/10

      No you failed to trick me Nick. If anything you have re-affirmed my current view. The whole global warming problem is an invention of left wing politicians and bureaucrats. The ETS/CPRS is just a scheme to pay back all your party’s mismanagement of the economy and vote buying.
      Somehow I think this piece of writing will irrevocably damage you and your party.  I’m sending the link to every one I know!! tongue wink

    • Max Power says:

      04:31pm | 01/02/10

      I don’t think the UN has to worry about Climate Change destroying the Amazon Rainforest, Humans are doing that job all on their own to grow crops for Bio fuels. Funny how it is ok to destroy the environment to supposedly save the environment. Destroy the farmland and crops of the Amazon and regrow the Amazon’s natural vegetation and the planet would be healthier and we wouldn’t need a new tax to fund world wide socialism.

    • James says:

      04:27pm | 01/02/10

      You haven’t looked through a single one of these links.  You are therefore uneducated.  So I won’t waste anymore time with you.

    • Rafe says:

      06:52pm | 03/02/10

      @James

      By saying that the earth is warming, and saying its been proven. Are you referring to the studies with data that goes ‘all the way’ to the 1890’s? If you are, then I still can’t work out how this proves the earth is warming.

      Its junk science man, measuring the top of a beaker to infer the rest of the contents is complete crap. There are holes right through the measuring system, how long the data has been collected as well as where it was measured.

      Moving on from that, and back to what you’ve got to say for yourself: “The vast majority of scientists”: How do you know, have you spoken to all of them? Or have you just done what everyone else has done and followed the mass market media?

      I don’t disagree with everything about the climate change theory, I just can’t give any level of credibility to an argument that keeps having bit holes blasted through it.

    • Rafe says:

      06:30pm | 03/02/10

      What links?

    • TB says:

      04:27pm | 01/02/10

      “Climate changes sceptics a threat to national security”

      Wow, what an incendiary title, even if it is typographically incorrect.

      “Climate scepticism is all the rage these days and it’s become very fashionable to doubt the scientists and suspect global fraud.”

      You can tell that this is a sentence written by a non-scientist. Scientists should constantly have their theories and assumptions challenged with scientifically valid inquiry, as science is all about constantly improving our understanding of the universe. If new information challenges previously ‘established’ ideas, then we must reassess those ideas.

      As to suspicions of global fraud, it is becoming increasingly apparent (through revelations beginning at the University of East Anglia, and more which are being revealed on a regular basis) that those suspicions are well-founded.

      “At the heart of this scepticism is opposition to the transition to a low carbon economy. Sceptics are deeply wedded to the idea that we can continue to burn fossil fuels with careless abandon. They are deeply committed to the idea that the more energy we burn the richer we’ll all get, the more jobs we will have and the happier we’ll all be. Sceptics stand for business as usual and a sleep walk into the future.”

      You are conflating two issues here. Not all global warming skeptics are pro-business and/or anti-environment, and it is flat-out wrong to make such a pig-headed assumption. But I’m not surprised by this - in the title alone you’ve thrown national security into the mix. You are correct that dependence on fossil fuels is not sustainable. One would have to be a fool to think otherwise.

      But as to how the issue is being tackled, carbon trading is one of the worst political jokes ever perpetrated on an electorate. It is taxation - nothing more, nothing less. And like taxes, the intended targets will simply find means to evade it, while the rest of us are forced to bear yet another burden “for our own good.” It reeks of the typical ass-backwards approach to problem solving perpetrated by politicians the world over for centuries. Got a problem? You either tax it, throw money at it, or declare war on it.

      Bringing an end to the era of carbon-based energy is surprisingly simple when you think about it. What is needed is a concerted global effort - like the Manhattan Project, but on a much larger scale and with a constructive (rather than destructive) goal - the development of clean, sustainable sources of energy.

      Our current situation is much like that of the apes in the ‘dawn of man’ sequence of 2001: A Space Odyssey. The apes are surrounded by abundant sources of sustenance (animals), but sit around slowly starving because they are too dumb to realise the answer quite literally staring at them. We, too, are surrounded by abundant sources of energy, yet we stick to coal, oil and gas due to our overwhelming ignorance (that, and our economic system permits prosperity out of engineered scarcity).

    • Splatcat says:

      04:25pm | 01/02/10

      I am a skeptic, give me ten seconds with Nick “The Man” Champion, and he will be saying I can’t believe it’s not butter.

    • Tim says:

      04:24pm | 01/02/10

      Gee Nick,  I’ve read through the responses.  Your getting an absolute canning.  If labor doesn’t ditch Climate Change policy right now then the climate in Canberra is going to move to the right at the next election.  Of course Kevin and Penny have invested so heavily in this scam that getting out of it with reputations intact is going to require all of their political skills.

    • Ted Bragg says:

      04:19pm | 01/02/10

      A master of the long bow and a champion of the tenuous connection

    • Monika500 says:

      04:11pm | 01/02/10

      OMG WTF? Clearly we do have resources to burn or petrol would not have been $1.16 per litre today at my local 7Eleven, it would be a far more expensive resouce.  Incidentally this was cheaper than the water and the coca cola at said establishment.  If you are as concerned about resource depletion as you sound in your article, why isn’t your government committing resources to the debate and/or establisment of nuclear power in Australia? I note that the Govt/ALP will not comment on the expected reduction in C02 emmissions in Australia should a CPRS be introduced, is this because there won’t be one?  I wouldn’t call a tax that will lower standards of living, increase unemployment, and send jobs and industries offshore for a zero reduction in CO2 emmissions as intelligent politics, but clearly you do! It is also an insult to claim that so called climate sceptics, (i.e “people who dare to question science that has not yet been proven” - how dare they in our democracy!), are soft on national security and border protection.  As a proud “climate sceptic” I have to believe your Government is extremely soft of both of these issues and needs to harden the f**k up in these areas also. PS, Should you happen to lose your seat in the next election, I hear that Hugo Chavez is looking for supporters, so maybe he could find a place for you in his partty.

    • Steve M says:

      04:10pm | 01/02/10

      Nick,
      That is an absolutely ridiculous line of argument. Don’t try to pigeon hole everyone into climate change believers and deniers… Why can’t climate change science and more importantly legislation in response to it be debated and reviewed like everything else?
      You say deniers refuse to acknowledge potential threats. What if carbon isn’t the threat and we haven’t considered something that is? Whose ideology is putting us in danger then?
      Free speech, democracy and debate has built our society into the place it is. Your style of trying to close the debate by shaming people helps no one and is an appalling afront to the rights that we are lucky to have.
      You’re welcome to raise the issue of national security in relation to climate change but accusing anyone of being soft on it just because they are unsure of the science or the legislation is just wrong and does nothing but build tension.

    • Island View says:

      04:04pm | 01/02/10

      Nick - I see from the comments that the deniers have their their email trees well and truly established to respond to any commentary on this most critical of issues.

      It’s a pity that they can’t learn to be a bit more civil but then I guess we can’t expect anything else - when the facts don’t work for you then just pour sh*t on your opponent

    • Mickey says:

      04:07pm | 02/02/10

      wonderfully pompous answer. But a lot like the climate change argument, your position is full of holes. Try reading some of the vitriolic contributions from Climate Change Zealots and they way they speak about anyone who dares question the party supplied mantra. Both sides attracts twits. Fortunately for me, most seem drawn to yours.

    • Robin says:

      04:40pm | 01/02/10

      It does not matter whether climate change is fact or fiction. It is too late to do anything about it. With the projected increase in population we will find it impossible to reduce the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere. The reason why the world population has skyrocketed over the last few hundred years is the easy access to carbon energy

      If we take it away from the people there will be a huge decrease in the world population due to the lack of food. If you have the alternative watch your family die or use carbon energy what would you do? The world governments will take the latter steps.

      We already pay enough tax why hit us with another.  We can do the alternative by making energy that is renewable or atomic tax free and then discouraging the use of coal fired power stations which should be easy as they are owned by the governments.

      Diesel powered cars are reaching 5 ltres per hundred KM which is 1/3 of the fuel consumed by big petrol powered cars. Make them tax free.

      Instead the government will just want to increase their revenue by big tax increases such as ETS and then doing nothing to encourage buying of economical cars

    • cynic says:

      04:00pm | 01/02/10

      Nick, good effort at selling the moon. By the way, the climate change experts are becoming less expert as their writings are seen to be “all hot air”, could not help it.

      Ya read the washington post item of novemebr 1922 that warns of melting ice caps, warming seas & such like? A good read, just 88 years before your item.

      Linking our national security to this debate smacks of desperation.

    • Toddzilla says:

      03:59pm | 01/02/10

      To all warmenists! Why, given the catastrophes you assume will happen, is AGW something you want to be right about?

      Also, if you win and are wrong, do you understand the havoc you will have wreaked on society by destroying the economy and cutting CO2 emissions that are responsible for crop growth. If you are wrong, millions will die as a result of the decrease in crops. You will have succeeded in turning the whole planet into a medieval third world hole. This is a far worse scenario than anything that could reasonably be expected to occur from AGW (and rising sea levels, given the law of water displacement, could never occur).

    • Geoff Brown says:

      03:50pm | 01/02/10

      Nick says; “All science can be disputed and debated and this is a welcome fact of life in any democracy. Scientific discovery is not a finite process but an evolving one, and it involves as much human error as any other endeavour. Climate science is no different and every day scientists learn more of the challenges before us, and the challenges we are likely to face in the future. The consensus of peer reviewed science is that climate change is occurring…”
      Consensus, Nick?  Consensus Science is an oxymoron. (So is Carbon Pollution. Consensus is one of the lies propogated by Al Gore and all the other alarmists.

    • Max Power says:

      03:50pm | 01/02/10

      Maybe I would take the ALP’s stance on Climate Change more serious, if they stopped old growth forest logging, implemented a plan to fix up our forests chopped down by old growth logging, weren’t sprouting on about increasing the population of our country which would require even more environmental destruction and didn’t think a new tax was the way to fix everything.
      Man made climate change is based on one fact, the discarding of the scientific evidence proving the planet started warming at least 60000 years ago, not 200 years ago like all the climate models are based on.
      I am a skeptic, and I challenge Nick Champion to put his money where his mouth is and back up his statement I am soft as butter.  I know he won’t because he is a cowardly politician who is never held accountable for their actions or words.
      So, Nick you have insulted my honour, I demand satisfaction, I challenge you to a duel. See the moderator for my contact details, I look forward to hearing from you to back up your statement.

    • Geoff Brown says:

      03:47pm | 01/02/10

      Nick says:” The fact is that sceptics are soft on our defence, soft on border protection, and soft on our national security.”  Oh, really? Nick also says: “Sceptics are rarely accountable for their statements.” Well, I find the first statement both untrue and offensive. I would change the second statement to “Champions are rarely accountable for their statements.” So, Nick, here is your challenge. Substantiate the first statement to disprove my adaptation to the second.

    • Mourning real heroes!! says:

      03:46pm | 01/02/10

      As someone who is against the ETS/CPRS and currently mourning the death of three mates in Afghanistan, this article and labour disgusts me to my very core.

      That is the irony about politicians the calibre of Nick Champion…...they’ll declare wars, but NEVER pick up a gun and fight themselves, and they’ll declare taxes that they either will never have to pay or they expense.

      It will be a cold day in hell (yes I get the irony here myself) when labour EVER gets my vote in my lifetime and Mr Champion that is 90% because of your idiotic and foul comment, and the other 10% is labours poor boarder protection policies. I will also refuse to reduce any of my emissions until Krudd and every other minister hands over their Chauffered V8 petrol 4 tonne cars and private jets.

    • Sean says:

      01:01pm | 02/02/10

      ditto

    • Naomi says:

      03:43pm | 01/02/10

      Mr. Champion given your views on climate change sceptics, can you please advise if at the next election to be held later this year you will publicly ask all sceptics in your area not to vote for you? Surely if you believe they are a threat to national security you will not want their vote?

    • Zeta says:

      03:40pm | 01/02/10

      Nobody gets into politics to talk about tax. No one ever goes through the pantomime insanity of preselection, election, party room survival to one day be Minister for Finance. No one ever lists our financial regulatory regime as one of their top priorities in their maiden speech. It’s all about national security. It’s just so f***ing sexy, its lure is irresistable. For backbenchers, it’s like a drug. Take a look at the make up of some of our National Security related committees in Canberra. Nothings buys off a cranky backbencher quicker than the promise of a gig on ASIO, ASIS, DSD Committee.

      Politics is Holywood for ugly people, or the intelligence community for people who did too many drugs at Uni to clear a background check. Nick Champion might not be the most handsome bloke on the benches, but given his stated passion for all things national security, I’d say this guy would snort a Tom Clancy novel if you could cut it fine enough.

      The Parliamentary nat sec devotee is like one of those annoying parents at dinner parties who can bring any conversation back to their indigo spawn and their amazing telepathic abilities. Expect papers on ‘Taxation and National Security: What the GST means for ASIO’ or ‘Community Services and National Security: How DoCs is breeding a generation of suicide bombers’. It’s just tedious after a while. The endless private member’s speeches, ‘Tonight I wish to raise an issue the people of Wakefield are very passionate about - National Security.’  As if the people of Wakefield give a tinkers cuss about national security except for the five minutes after an episode of 24 has ended. These guys remind me of that one kid in school who would only complete a school assignment if they could do it on their one, narrow interest of choice. Only unlike the average Canberra national security wonk, crayon and glue stick creations about World War 2 aeroplanes are more interesting that climate change.

      Even worse, this bollocks is half arsed. ‘Climate Change represents the biggest national security threat since the Cold War’... That’s what all those reports say. I know, because I’ve read them too.

      You know what else they say? The war for resources won’t be fought between Australia and Al Qaeda. Osama Bin Laden isn’t going to start flying planes into coal veins. They’re all about China. China is hungry for resources, and we just don’t know what they’ll do when they run out.

      Which is why Champion and Labor play such a dangerous game. That’s why Rudd himself won’t play the national security card on climate change, because to do so is to make an implicit acknowledgement that China, our big, friendly Communist trading partner might turn around and invade us if we cut them off. Those aren’t the kinds of things friends say to each other.

      Champ, leave the big think on national security to the black hat and mirrorshade crowd. You’re a backbencher. Go shake a baby and kiss some hands, and make sure you send your Punch contributions through to general members secretariat before you go accidently starting wars.

    • sneakers says:

      12:09pm | 02/02/10

      Awesome. Just .. awesome smile

    • Lewy says:

      10:48pm | 01/02/10

      Glad I read your comment. Awesome

    • Max says:

      03:36pm | 01/02/10

      And the Conservatives love a good bit military intervention, nationalistic grandstanding and whipping up the fear of invasion by the ‘coloured’ people. Damn they must be annoyed!

      Maybe they are saving those usual tactics up for next election.

    • Greg says:

      07:19pm | 04/02/10

      @Max

      Is that as in the author Karl Max? you’re the one that wrote that sh*tty book all those years ago.
      Despite what the mentally challenged Laborites and Greens may tell you, most conservatives don’t wear jackboots.

      In fact in the Liberal party there are clearly different views on climate change as there is in society. Strangely though everybody in Labor believes in it. Strange. I think I will vote for the party that represents society.

    • Ruby M says:

      03:22pm | 01/02/10

      Hi Nick,
      Clever article, and of course the proof of your argument will be published in the comments. 

      I’ve been shocked by a lot of what I’ve seen on the Punch threads in response to the issue of climate science.  The patterns that emerge are always the same: personal attacks on the writer and their qualifications to speak on behalf of science, complete misrepresentation of the way that science arrives at conclusions…

      Even if you don’t know exactly what they’re going to say, it’s predictable.  Just like even though we don’t know exactly what’s going to happen, we can predict climate change.

    • BULMKT says:

      03:20pm | 01/02/10

      RE Justan Oz @ 301pm

      The IPCC scientists say they are only 90 per cent certain about the “AGW problem”. Why should we act?  Would you fly on a plane that had a 90 per cent chance of landing safely?

      Please remember, the beginning of wisdom is found in doubting; by doubting we come to the question, and by seeking we may come upon the truth. Don’t disrespect the Sceptic.

    • Super D says:

      03:17pm | 01/02/10

      How is our national security bolstered by a unilateral vow of poverty?

    • jhamiltonwa says:

      09:40pm | 01/02/10

      No, stop for a minute, they’re on to something (finally). Completely stuff the economy and you’ll still have boatloads of refugees, but they’ll be leaving not arriving.

    • nanJ says:

      03:16pm | 01/02/10

      Socialism at its best.

    • Tom says:

      03:14pm | 01/02/10

      That’s all very well, but errors such as numbers 2 and 3 were errors as to the effects of it, not whether AGW is occuring or not. I fail to see how the failure of Copenhagen is relevant, that is a breakdown of negotiations, hardly unexpected considering the patchy record of such treaties with such a large number of countries involved in the past (e.g. the WTO’s Doha round).

      How about rather than focussing on errors in the AGW case, you present some valid, peer reviewed anti AGW articles published in reputable journals. The errors picked up in the IPCC report amount to a couple of pages in a 1600 page document, whereas books such as Plimer’s ‘Heaven and Earth’ and various Lord Monckton documents have been completely debunked as pseudoscience.

    • biff says:

      03:14pm | 01/02/10

      Don’t worry Nick, I’m sure Mr Rudd has noticed you. Please be patient, you turn will come.

    • Kenny says:

      03:13pm | 01/02/10

      “... if we had a world goverment there would be no wars…”

      Absolute gold from Mr Champion - I love it!  Might even move to Wakefield to have the honour of being represented by such a heavyweight purveyor of wisdom and knowledge.  Is Mr Champion old enough to vote?

    • practical says:

      03:13pm | 01/02/10

      climate deniers should be imprisoned.. some dark dungeon somewhere.. better yet.. disposed of in human shredding machines and turned into compost.

    • eye4aneye says:

      07:40pm | 09/02/10

      To much LSD in the 60’s huh hippy? Sounds like your a fan of Fritzl’s dungeon life style

    • munroe says:

      12:06pm | 09/02/10

      Here is the fascism of the green movement on full display.
      Practical, if you can’t win the debate, the solution is not to silence the people who you disagree with. it’s to change your mind.

    • ev425128 says:

      12:17pm | 02/02/10

      No, Cohenite, practical perfectly illustrates the totalitarian mindset of those driving the AGW fraud.

      Thanks for making your point so unambiguously, practical.

    • Andy says:

      09:03am | 02/02/10

      Goodness me. Sensible healthy debate is stimied by people such as you ‘Practical’.

      I imagine you as someone on the green front lines, bemoaning all that is wrong in the world that we live in, pointing a multitude of fingers in numerous directions and decrying those who waver even infinitesimally from your fixated point of view. You best remove your blinkers and understand this debate is only in its infancy.

      People like you will one day realise that you have backed the wrong horse simply because some vested interests and a salivating media told you too. Good luck with the next cause celebre you find.

    • cohenite says:

      04:56pm | 01/02/10

      You sir, are an idiot.

    • Rafe says:

      03:10pm | 01/02/10

      Do you have anything to say for your argument except to insult the other party?

      Come to the table with some facts and figure buddy, don’t come with petty insults. Or are you incapable of reading (and understanding) a scientific report. Which would put you in the same group as the author.

    • matron says:

      03:09pm | 01/02/10

      you forgot to add “thats crap!” to all your facts…

    • MT Judd says:

      03:05pm | 01/02/10

      Thanks for telling me about myself, Nick. No doubt you know me better than I know myself. (BTW, in case that went over your head, I’m being cynical.)

    • Steve M says:

      09:42am | 03/02/10

      James,
      If you think carbon dioxide is the only driver of our climate then you need to read some more science.
      Other reasons for Climate Change:
      Changing Solar activity
      Changing frequency and intensity of sunspots
      changing intensity of solar magnetic field leading to changes in radioactive bombardment of earth leading to changes in cloud cover leading to increased solar radiation and reflection.
      There’s a few just from the sun, Carbon dioxide produced by humans can at best only contribute to climate change, the system literally has millions of variables.

    • Jimi Bostock says:

      10:01pm | 02/02/10

      matey, your links only reveal where you get your info, broaden your horizons matey, realclimate et al are just warmist propoganda funnels.

      seek and ye shall find

    • Rafe says:

      03:39pm | 01/02/10

      James says: 03:04pm | 01/02/10:
      130years of temperature data, it must be right?

      Do some research buddy, look into where the facts come from with respect to global temperatures (especially with respect to only a small subset of data).
      Then look into where the temperatures have been recorded.
      Then go come back and we’ll have this discussion again.

    • BULMKT says:

      03:03pm | 01/02/10

      “Climate sceptics are wishful thinkers and their myopia is a danger to the national interest.”
      “an early and orderly transition to a low carbon economy though a free market mechanism – the CPRS. This approach safeguards our society, our environment, our economy and our national security.”

      What a bunch of dribble from an ALP hack that’s never had a real job in his life (read his punch bio).

      WFT would you know. You’re just parroting the same dribble from Rudd.

      Cap & Trade is an insidious tax and The Rudd Government’s CPRS, which is just a fancy name for Cap & Trade, isn’t a solution as it does nothing but put a CAP on Success and TRADES Prosperity for Poverty. If you ever held a real job in private enterprise you’d understand this simple principle.
      The Rudd Government’s CPRS will reduce Australian manufacturing output (Pro: fewer emissions, Con: Fewer Jobs), and that in turn will reduce Australia’s GDP (Pro: lower carbon output, Con: a lower standard of living).

      The “Climate Change Science” isn’t settled. Science is about investigation to get nearer to truth. If it settled it is not science, it becomes a belief and any belief that is no longer questioned is no different to any religious or superstitious belief – it is not science.
      The IPCC scientists say they are only 90 per cent certain about the “AGW problem”. Why should we act?  Would you fly on a plane that had a 90 per cent chance of landing safely?

      Australian politicians should heed the warning from the UK member of the European Parliament, Godfrey Bloom who said:
      “When are you all going to wake up? Scam, scam, scam.”
      http://bit.ly/6FsWWO

    • Justan Oz says:

      03:01pm | 01/02/10

      To all the climate change sceptics ! Have you ever thought of the consequenses,if you win and are wrong?? Isn’t it better to be safe than sorry?? An old adage but still true.

    • Razor says:

      03:33pm | 01/02/10

      Justan,

      Your questionis a poor one because it assumes that sceptics do not believe that the globe is warming.  This is an incorrect assumption.  The globe is warming and has for thousands of years.  However, sceptics also understand that the uncertainty of the climate science combined with the uncertainty of the economic forecasting, means that trying to pick policy winners in both climate change and economic policy spheres is significantly high risk.  I suggest higher risk than maximising economic growth based on current available resources (including knowledge) and adjusting to circumstances as they arise.  Holland is a fine example of a coutnry that has succesfully done this over the centuries.

    • Toddzilla says:

      03:01pm | 01/02/10

      Thanks, Nick, for elucidating the ALP’s position. It is now clear, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the lunatics are running the asylum.

    • Colin says:

      03:07pm | 01/02/10

      “The fact is that sceptics are soft on… [blah blah blah, lie lie lie]”

      Where is your evidence for this “fact”, Nick? Your entire article is the greatest load of childishly agitprop I’ve read from your side of politics since the 2007 election. And that’s saying something!  Every paragraph reeks of shrill desperation… why is that?

    • Rafe` says:

      03:00pm | 01/02/10

      Even the papers that pass the peer-review process are based on science using temperature data going back less than 150 years. No matter how you look at it, that isn’t good analysis.

      Your argument above doesn’t do anything to convince me, not what you are trying to get me to agree with anyway. I just backs up why I am not one of the sheep blindly listening to the wind that the scientists have on their latest research papers.

      Think for yourself.
      Do some research into what is going on, the so called facts they are basing these papers on, and you’ll find for yourself that 90% of what is being passed as climate change data is in fact crap.

    • D'oh says:

      02:58pm | 01/02/10

      Nice one Nick Champion, that really was a good one…haha.

      What?!?!  You mean you are serious??

      1)  East Anglia Emails
      2)  Himalayan Glaciers error
      3)  Amazon Rainforest Error
      4)  Al Gore’s “An Inconvenient Truth” 9 significant error ruled by British Court
      5)  Copenhagen failure
      6)  IPCC’s AR4 errors & referencing of non peer reviewed papers by campaign groups (Greenpeace & WWF)
      7)  Pachauri’s Conflicts of Interest

      Need I go on…....

    • iansand says:

      07:52pm | 01/02/10

      Have the sceptics made their emails public?  That would be exceptionally interesting.

    • jg says:

      02:57pm | 01/02/10

      I should add, I am a sceptic, but as an ex soldier, I am not soft of defence, nor border protection and therefore not soft on national security. I shall also add that just because I am a sceptic it does not mean that I waste energy and burn fossil fuels with careless abandon, as you put it. In fact, I recycle materials, I ride a pushbike to work, I am a vegetarian, I compost my excess vegetation, I believe in less old growth forests being chopped down and more on ground environmental works being undertaken. I also recycle water when possible. In fact I’m probably more green that you and your ALP cronies.

      As such your opinion piece is at best disingenious, at worst simply a piece that seeks to polarise, stereotype and demonise people who don’t think that the science is as watertight as you, and your unquestioned boss wish us to believe.

      You should be deeply ashamed of this piece of writing.

    • Arden says:

      02:47pm | 04/02/10

      Well said JG.  I too am a sceptic and am probably more ‘green’ than Nick and his mates.  I live on a farm where we catch rainwater for our daily needs, have our own waste water treatment system, recycle every drop of water onto our garden, have solar hot water, grow our own veggies and so on.  I do this because, apart from thinking it’s the ‘right’ thing to do, where I live it’s a necessity.  I don’t do it because some preachy, unwashed hippy types, or the Goverment,  tell me to.  I also believe in strong defence of our country.  I imagine Nick has offended a good many of our outstanding and loyal defence personnel with this outrageous slur on thier integrity.

    • Dingo_aus says:

      02:56pm | 01/02/10

      At least skeptics don’t resort to dressing up as the Grimm Reaper to try and scare people.

      Feel free to go to the next election arguing the Four Horseman of the Green Apocolypse are coming unless we have a brand new tax on everything.  See have far the taxpayers will cope that.

    • Lord Frederico Von Conspirinista says:

      02:51pm | 01/02/10

      Oh really?
      I must have missed the memo about science being based on who would “win” a show debate with a loony.
      BTW What are the good “Lord’s” scientific credentials again?
      Must be a world conspiracy huh.

    • PaulM says:

      01:21pm | 02/02/10

      Well Lord Frederico, apart from being a mathematician (understanding statistics, trends in data and the like).

      Tell us again, what are Al Gore, Tim Flannery, Kevin Rudd, Penny Wong, Peter Garrett, or Nick Champions scientific qualifications that make their opinions any more relevant than Viscount Monckton?

    • funkis says:

      08:59am | 02/02/10

      please do yourself & everyone else a favor & read the book heaven & earth global warming the missing science then you will realise its all a money making scam

    • James says:

      02:50pm | 01/02/10

      Absolutely they are a threat to national security, much worse than Al Quada, albeit due to their stupidity and ignorance of science rather than religion.  I have found them to be a similar breed of conservative, simple minded, boy-men, who have deep seeded psychological problems.

    • don't believe the hype says:

      03:09pm | 01/02/10

      The “precautionary principle” Tim?

      “...it is nonsense to consider only the risk of not doing something, without also considering the risks that doing that something involves”

      Quote by Christopher Monckton, when discussing the usage of food growing land for bio fuel crops, thus doubling world food prices and causing the deaths of many who cannot afford food. 

      I don’t recall Rudd discussing this. Only how the sky will fall in if we don’t pay trillions of dollars in taxation to the United Nations and World Bank.

    • steve says:

      02:48pm | 01/02/10

      National Security? Wow that is a long shot, so now we must agree with the Govt on an ETS or what? Perhaps he is threatening that without the ETS we may see an increase in say “boats in the horizon full of illegal boat people?” Or the Collins class subs will break down?
      oh sorry, we already have those.
      Perhaps the “well authored reports on the impact climate change will have on national and international security” such as Mann’s Hockey stick and the CRU attempt to prove “Mann made Global warming” by applying New Truth to the data. after all if the data does not show the results you need just change the data., It would be a “travesty if we can not explain why there is no warming .... the data must be wrong”
      Or perhaps Nick is refering to Pachauri’s latest effort as an author a climate alarmist version of a seedy romance novel, just in all his spare time as head of IPCC.
      The only potential threat I see is from a Govt trying to impose a tax on everything, which will do nothing to alter the climate. The ETS Has more to do with a Govt that has spent all the inheritance and ticked up a huge debt now they need the funds to pay for it

      Nick if you get time, have a look at
      http://wattsupwiththat.com/
      Just in the interests of debate on national security

    • jg says:

      02:47pm | 01/02/10

      “They criticise minor errors in massive reports and loudly attack sloppy emails”

      Minor errors?

      Sloppy emails?

      That’s one way of looking at it.

      the other is that the whole argument is starting to crumble, brick by brick like the Berlin Wall.

    • Michael says:

      02:46pm | 01/02/10

      I agree what people do to the planet alters it for the worse. Earth is a living thing, tearing up parts of it and pumping the rest with toxic chemicals can’t be good no matter how you look at it. The results of those actions still aren’t fully understood - taking action now to limit the damage is needed.

      What I don’t understand? The actions being taken by the government. I see to many unanswered questions with the proposed ETS scheme, things like:

      * What is the net cost of operating this scheme to Australia?
      * By how much will this reduce Australian emissions?

    • It's the Sun, Stupid! says:

      12:46pm | 02/02/10

      Point 1: Big, big money - and lots of lovely bureaucracy, of course!
      Point 2: Zero!

    • Ian Matthews says:

      02:40pm | 01/02/10

      ... He is a former president of the ALP (SA) and holds a BA and GradDip in Communications. Before entering Parliament he was an occupational health and safety officer, training officer and organiser for the Shop Distributive and Allied Employees’ Association. He also worked as a sport and recreation policy advisor to State Labor Minister Michael Wright….

      Oh sweet, holy, Mother Gaia, please protect us from this, your latest doom-threatening goose. His real-world experience boggles the mind!

    • Dj says:

      02:36pm | 01/02/10

      “The fact is that sceptics are soft on our defence, soft on border protection, and soft on our national security”
      “Make no mistake; if you’re a self confessed climate sceptic then you’re as soft as butter on Australia’s defence”

      It’s been a while since I laughed so hard i almost lost my coffee, thank you Nick.
      And contrary to what is usually said,  Do give up your day job, you’ve got a real future as a comedy writer.
      Keep up the good work.

    • don't believe the hype says:

      02:36pm | 01/02/10

      This Labor scaremongering is hitting a new low.
      I didn’t think that was even possible. Seriously.
      What isn’t global warming responsible for these days?

      And YES we want 100% certainty this isn’t a BIG FAT GLOBAL SCAM
      Post evidence of that or STFU.

    • Mickey says:

      03:58pm | 02/02/10

      ok Tom, fair point. Where is the evidence CONCLUSIVELY PROVING the claims about climate change? And i don’t mean theory or conjecture, but concrete evidence?

    • Tom says:

      03:04pm | 01/02/10

      Your argument is absurd - like any prediction, the only chance you can have 100% certainty is when the event itself occurs. If catastrophic global warming does occur, by the time the effects are being felt fully it will be too late to act. The arguments of climate sceptics are currently to pick a couple of holes amounting to a few pages in a 1600 page IPCC document, and claim that this disproves the whole argument. Never mind that to date there still has not been a document disproving global warming that has been published in a reputable scientific journal, and subject to the necessary peer review.

    • Tim says:

      02:53pm | 01/02/10

      You obvioiusly have never heard of risk management, have you?

    • Anthony says:

      02:35pm | 01/02/10

      Nice on Nick, but too bad the game will be all over for the Climate Change Alarmists and their fraud and falsifying of data. You would go down like a sack of potato’s in a debate against Lord Monckton.

    • Chris Gee says:

      04:19pm | 01/02/10

      Exactly, This is why every major voice singing the chorus of the climate change issue refuses to debate Lord Monckton, his article Gore Gored, really shows how government scientists have falsified documents in their favour

    • Nick says:

      02:34pm | 01/02/10

      Every day now there seems to be another revelation that a doom and gloom climate change “prediction” is nothing more than hearsay dressed up as “science”.

      Climategate emails were what tipped the balance but since then we’ve been told that the IPCC’s predictions on the Himalayan glaciers, the Amazon rainforest and the frequency of climatic disasters are nothing short of BS.

      Climate change may be real but the threat it poses has been vastly overestimated by vested interests in the Left and business world.

      In short it’s a scam.

    • Nick says:

      02:32pm | 01/02/10

      Every day now there seems to be another revelation that a doom and gloom climate change “prediction” is nothing more than hearsay dressed up as “science”.

      Climategate emails were what tipped the balance but since then we’ve been told that the IPCC’s predictions on the Himalayan glaciers, the Amazon rainforest and the frequency of climatic disasters are nothing short of BS.

      Climate change may be real but the threat it poses has been vastly overestimated by vested interests in the Left and business world.

      In short it’s a scam.

    • LC says:

      07:54pm | 26/02/11

      The original and noble concept of environmentalism that began in the late 60s/early 70s has seemed to have lost the meaning somewhere along the way. It now seems that at some point it was hijacked by social and political ideologies and today environmentalism is being used to help closet socialists push their agendas using ignorant (but well meaning) people. There are valid arguments for socialism, but the environment isn’t one of them.

      I agree that society must stop relying on fossil fuels as an energy source, because the stuff that we turn into strands 12 hydrocarbons long to put in our car and burn is not only the same stuff they use to make one of the most versatile materials on the planet (plastic) but is also the stuff they use to pave our roads, and is in limited supply.

      However, I do not agree that AGW is occurring. Nor would I believe that, if there was irrefutable proof it was, that corporations would shoulder 100% of the blame. And finally, I would not believe that increased taxation is the solution.

    • Razor says:

      02:30pm | 01/02/10

      Dear Mr Champion,

      It is clear that there is not going to be an effective global aggreement that will have any impact on global warming (whether you believe in AGW or not).  Therefore, if threats exist we need to prepare for them.  Security is not a valid argument to prove or disprove AGW Theory.

      Your linkage of resource scarcity to climate change doesn’t make any sense in relation to coal, which is the greatest contributor to CO2 emmissions.  If you were alluding to oil and gas then you are beleiver in Peak Oil theory, which has been with us for over a century now.  As oil and gas becomes more expensive then the market will produce alternatives in terms of energy sources and consumption patterns.

      Why is your party against Nuclear Power Stations?

    • orwell was right says:

      02:30pm | 01/02/10

      Bwahahahahahahahaha
      This is hilarious
      First Bin laden is a climate expert
      NOW it’s part of national security
      DESPERATION MUCH?
      Ohh Lordy ... this piece is hilarious

    • Lach says:

      02:28pm | 01/02/10

      Yes how dare we question the iron fist of Rudd. (this even goes for unionist labor members who privately know it will cost their mates their jobs.)

    • Allan says:

      02:27pm | 01/02/10

      There will be a greater effect on world climate as population goes from 6.5 billion today to 9.3 billion in 2050.
      Australia’s population at 35 million will have more effect on Australia’s environment than any increase in CO2 levels.
      What is Rudd’s position this
      “I’am in favour of a bigger Australia”
      To all those who live in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane you have my commiserations.

    • Trevor Bacon says:

      07:16am | 17/09/10

      Yes It’s a very strong point even with regard to CO2.  Living in London it is difficult not to notice the massive influx of people from Africa who before they moved to this country presumably had far lower carbon footprints than they do now in the UK. While of course I do not wish poverty on anybody the greens, who are so closely allied to left wing politics, end up bound by their own logical inconsistency.

    • Paris says:

      02:22pm | 01/02/10

      If the ALP wish to frame Climate Change as a national security issue, perhaps they could actually deploy some initiatives that could have some positive impact.

      If Climate Change really is the new world war, the CPRS in its current form is the rough equivalent of giving Japan and Germany handouts to keep building their military.

    • Harry Buttle says:

      08:14am | 04/02/10

      I’m frankly stunned that the ALP want to draw attention to defence at all, given their total failure in that area, Collins class subs. unable to sail, Illegal immigrants, traversing our waters at will, not a good look.

    • wagdog says:

      02:21pm | 01/02/10

      A STARTLING report by the UN climate watchdog that global warming might wipe out 40 per cent of the Amazon rainforest was based on an unsubstantiated claim by green campaigners who had no scientific expertise.

      The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change said in its 2007 benchmark report that even a slight change in rainfall could see swaths of the rainforest rapidly replaced by savanna grassland.

      The source for its claim was a report from WWF, an environmental pressure group, which was written by two green activists. They had based their “research” on a study published in the science journal Nature, which did not assess rainfall but looked at the impact on the forest of human activity such as logging and burning. WWF said on Saturday it was launching an internal inquiry into the st

    • graham says:

      07:20pm | 02/02/10

      Sorry dude the IPPC head is getting charged and is a total fraud ,read the emails and computer code before you waffle more lies.It has come out in the last week thats its all a fraud you need to read more and get up on the latest .

    • Jack P says:

      02:17pm | 01/02/10

      I’m afraid that by posing the climate change debate in a national security paradigm you’re coming off a bit shrill, Nick.

      There are always going to be security issues that Australia must deal with - in the presence or absence of climate change. The discussion about these life and death issues ideally should take place in a vacuum that is unencumbered by partisan bickering. That you’re attempting to tie in these issues smacks of political point scoring. If you want to argue against climate change skeptics, argue against them on merits that don’t presuppose a life and death binary option, otherwise you’re just devaluing discussion about issues that will have a true effect on national security.

    • Jack Thomas says:

      01:59pm | 05/02/10

      Sound of crickets….

      Even your Labor Latte mates are moving away quietly not making eye contact.

      “sceptics are soft on our defence, soft on border protection, and soft on our national security”.

      Riiiggghhht, because those doubting the Climate Change hysteria and growinig cases of fraud are the same ones protesting about treatment of asylum seekers, the war in Iraq, etc.

      Does this article need 240 responses? I’ve already lost two minutes of my life I’ll never get back, by bothering to post this.

 

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