Prev
Next

ChinaWatch: When in Beijing… order in English

James Bourne

by James Bourne

02 Apr 05:45am

Must Reads

The Punch is moving house - this is a caption

The Punch is moving house

385

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this? - this is a caption

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

122

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming” - this is a caption

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

251

Filed under: China, Chinawatch, Customs, Expat, Society

33 comments

This column is part of a monthly series on what’s happening in China from a political, social, environmental, music and arts perspective. If you’d like to contribute to the series, know of some great links, websites, magazines, contacts or just harbour a passion for China, feel free to drop me a line: lucy@thepunch.com.au.

Being an Australian of European background, I stand out instantly in China.

Yeah but how do you say beef jerky in Mandarin?

Such is the feeling of isolation in the crowd, though - the looks of intrigue, the whirlwind of Chinese characters and the confusion of rapid native conversations - to see another foreigner is almost always a source of comfort.

I’ve quickly found, in that moment, the attraction of the familiar inevitably draws out three questions in English.

1.    “What’s your name?”
2.    “Where are you from?”
3.    “How long have you been in China?”

The first question is a good way of putting a name to a face, the second is a nice icebreaker, especially if you can make light of a particular event happening in their country. But the third question is curious.

What I am finding more and more is that, while the answer to the third question is often months or years, many expats admitted that they couldn’t speak Chinese (outside of ordering at bars) and that this culture was born not so much of being a group of foreigners unwilling to learn, but of a local community all too happy to accommodate their needs.

My first venture into an expat bar wasn’t to escape Chinese culture. Really. It was to watch a cricket game from back home, which I managed to do with the help of another expat.

While I appreciated the fact that I could find some of the comforts of home, I was taken aback by the fact that when I ordered a beer in Mandarin, the response came in English.

Myself: “Wo yao yi ping Tsingtao, xiexie.”
Local barman: “Ok, that will be 20 kuai. We’ll bring it over to you.”

This is far from an isolated incident. The city I’m staying in, Hangzhou, is typical of contemporary Chinese cities. It is stuck between its 20th century Communist roots and a developing consumerist culture.

Dominated by foreign businessmen attempting to grab a slice of a untouched local market but more than willing to engage with Western ideas, technology and customs.

As a result of this increased foreign presence, China is quickly becoming a country where familiarity exists at a determined price, and unlike other nations, it’s one that’s incredibly affordable for Westerners.

The desire of Chinese businesses and government to open the door to foreigners is creating an increasingly large niche market for Chinese small business owners who can now attract a clientele, local and foreign, happy to pay these higher prices for English service.

Indeed, bar staff and shopkeepers are mystified when I attempt to practice my Chinese with them. Jason, a waiter at the local bar, insisted that we talk English so he could practice his skills. This was clearly a fact understood by some of the more weathered patrons of the venue, who, despite knowing how to order in Chinese, did it all in English. As appears to be the custom.

It was here that I met a businessman, Tim, who works as a “Director of Asian Business Development” for an Australian manufacturing company. From what I could gather, being a “Director of Asian Business Development” involved, almost exclusively, being shown a good time by local officials, all of whom either speak the English or pay for a translator to be present.

His rationale: why learn the language when the actions of the local community didn’t want to?

Learning the language of the people you choose to do business with is important, a fact that the Chinese are discovering with impressive results.

In many ways it is the polar opposite of expectations in Australia. That is, if you want to be an effective member of a society, let alone its business community, speaking the local language is a minimum requirement.

Indeed, every migrant Australian I’ve dealt with has at least an elementary grasp of English. In China, the local community is evolving, culturally, to accommodate foreigners, learning their customs and speaking their language in order to attract their dollars.

I may be naïve, but this culture seems to be entirely out of kilter with the way Australians deal with foreign interests.

Rather than being heartened by the fact that my time in China won’t be as alien as maybe I thought it would be, I was actually a little mystified by the fact that not speaking the language at all was actually an option.

I often wonder if it’s odd that the thing that most strikes me as foreign about a country where I cannot read a single street sign or understand a conversation is the fact that so many foreigners share my grief. I just hope that, by the end of the year, I will have spent enough time away from English speakers to no longer share their confusion.

Most commented

33 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • asdf says:

      07:37am | 02/04/12

      You went to an expat bar and they spoke English and now decided that you don’t need to speak Chinese… ?

      That is like a Chinese going to Chinatown and being surprised when the shop keeper addresses them in Chinese.

      I’ve spent months in China, try going somewhere not designated for westerners, or speak to somebody over 30 years old. Chances are they not only won’t speak English, but will have trouble speaking Chinese with you since they are more fluent with whatever the local dialect is rather than standard Chinese.

      Reply

    • James In Footscray says:

      08:22am | 02/04/12

      Indeed, asdf!

      Maybe the article shows why China has become commercially successful - Chinese businesses know how to meet market needs. In this case, expat drinkers in bars.

      (By contrast, Australian tourism seems pretty dismal in catering for the language needs of visitors.)

    • Andrew says:

      03:35pm | 02/04/12

      Trust me, it ain’t just in an ex-pat bar. I was in Shanghai a couple of years ago, I’d walk into a food court and up to a vendor and say “ni hao”, and they would respond back “hello”. I’d walk through the markets to buy things and everyone, even the locals where speaking English, same at local restaurants (aka the one’s for the locals).

      I soon learnt there was a very good reason for it, the English speakers got the good jobs in Western establishments, such as the expensive hotels which charged western prices. Thus they wanted to learn as much English as they could, as when you are working at a place where the price of a basic drink is as much as an entire average days wage for a local, there are some distinct advantages, esp when it comes to foreign tourists who are unfamiliar with local tipping customs.

    • DOB says:

      11:10pm | 02/04/12

      Shanghai is an exception. In the better restaurants the Chinese chefs speak fluent french. I know becuase in the Hyatt hotels in Pudong Ive sat eating my breakfast and listened to them speaking with French speaking chefs. the writer of this piece lives in Hangzhou. Yet I have been all over Hangzhou and not spoken a word of english to anyone except hotel staff at the desk (who routinely spoke to me in english despite my Nihao and speaking to them in mandarin). But try pretty much anywhere outside a really big city and youre stuffed if you dont speak and read mandarin. In fact even if you speak mandarin you might be stuffed because a lot of ordinary people speak their local dialect and often struggle to understand a foreigner’s tones. On the bright side a lot of ordinary people like to get a picture with westerners who turn up in their areas. As for foreign businessmen in Hangzhou - Hmm, maybe. It is the centre of the Chinese textile industry but I have not seen all that many western business people there. Not compared to other places in China anyway. You get a lot more westerners out around Huangshan City in Anhui province where they go to buy the world’s best teas (which incidentally are a million miles better than anything that can be bought in Australia).

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:51am | 03/04/12

      @DOB The Hyatt staying China expert bwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahahahahahahahaha

      You’re correct about the tea though, but which tea?

      The ones served in the Hilton.

      bwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahahahahahahaha

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:51am | 03/04/12

      @DOB The Hyatt staying China expert bwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahahahahahahahaha

      You’re correct about the tea though, but which tea?

      The ones served in the Hilton.

      bwwwwwwwwwwwwhahahahahahahahahaha

    • The cynic says:

      04:13pm | 22/08/12

      How unusual speaking English in an Expat bar. What did you expect they would be doing, using sign language?

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      09:07am | 02/04/12

      Hi James,

      I an guessing that we could all solve our problems concerning the Chinese finding it very hard to understand our western culture and point of view, once and for all.  Which would in turn offer a better dialogue when we all visit China for a week, may be? That solution would be actually teaching Chinese as a compulsory second language in Australian Public Schools.

      This article sounded far too much like a promotional advertising piece targeting Tourism China, no offence intended.  You don’t have to go all the way to China to experience the real culture of a second world super power.  Just a simple visit to Hay Market in Sydney for yum cha would answer all the questions you might have on your mind. Except for the handful of head waiters no body actually speaks English anyway.

      I am certain that most Chinese are the very hard working individuals as well as high achievers, so learning English which happens to be the Universal language should not prove too difficult, right?  Next week are you planning to talk about shark fin soup and chicken feet servings at yum cha?  May be you can give us all healthy tips on doing million dollar business dealing and wheeling with the Chinese as well.  Kind regard to your editors.

      Reply

    • Rossco says:

      09:53am | 02/04/12

      English is the universal language, so I don’t see the point of this article.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      11:00am | 02/04/12

      I have just finished a book called “Foreign Devils in the Flowery Kingdom” by Carl Crow.  It is his memoir of his time as an old China hand in Shanghai between 1911 and 1937.  The more things change…  The expats then lived their lives among other expatriates without having much contact at all with local Chinese apart from their compradores and houseboys who acted as intermediaries.

      My experience in China is that, if you display the slightest interest in or knowledge of their history or make any stumbling attempt to speak Mandarin, they are absolutely delighted.  And if you are prepared tro try whatever food they put in front of you, you are a star.  Although fish stomach was a challenge…

      Reply

    • Question says:

      11:13am | 02/04/12

      The whole “Chinese people wanting to speak English to English people” thing isnt just seen in China either. I frequently travel to Japan and every time I try to practice my Japanese (which isnt terrible, im just not conversationally fluent) everyone cuts me off with the “I want to practice my English” line. The funny thing is, whenever I go into a Japanese restaurant or such here in Australia and pull the same trick im also asked to help the staff practice their English! How are we “white devils” supposed to learn a language if others refuse to let us practice!?

      Reply

    • powermax says:

      11:43am | 02/04/12

      For me the answer was and is simple. Even fifty years ago the ‘locals’ wanted to practise their English. My approach when in Japan was to head to the far south of the main islands to Kagoshima or Miyazaki. There are no English signs down there and nobody spoke English, in fact you had a better chance with Cantonese. Practising was really, really easy.

      In Indonesia I went to the local markets that are only attended by the local poor and visits to China are the same. But if you wish, it is possible to spend years in these countries and never ahve to learn much beyond the most basic of courtesies.

    • haggis says:

      11:45am | 02/04/12

      seasy -  you ask in French-German-Chinese-Tagalog . . . .  they answer in English. It works and it’s great fun.

    • alby says:

      12:00pm | 02/04/12

      Ahh, no, its not that simple. Business inparticular is actually very very difficult in china because of the language barrier. Often you find yourself at the mercy of a translater who has no manufacturing background at all and would not know P20 steel from a spoon and yet you want them to specify this. Learning some Mandarin is essential or you could end up with a container of spoons you didn’t want. Really.

      Reply

    • iansand says:

      01:28pm | 02/04/12

      What makes it worse is that many interpreters are reluctant to lose face by asking you to explain things that they don’t quite understand, so they plough on regardless with everybody at cross purposes.

    • forbesy says:

      01:47pm | 02/04/12

      Try practising conversations with taxi drivers - they are the best bet in big cities for practising the dialect…...

      Reply

    • Chopper knows says:

      03:28pm | 02/04/12

      I tried today and New Delhi seemed like a really interesting place, Felt strange though since i’m on the way from Melbourne Airport to Melbourne CBD raspberry

    • ZSRenn says:

      05:15pm | 02/04/12

      100% agree. the Taxi drivers are about the only one’s who don’t want an English lesson. My taxi ride to town is about 20 minutes and now I can make small talk all the way. His first questions are always the same but you rock his world when you ask them back and then ask him if he is busy.

      I’ve also learnt the characters for my favourite meals and like to go into very Chinese restaurants and order from the menu. I will then do the same routine with the waitress.

      One difficulty here in the south is the waitress who doesn’t understand you are speaking Mandarin or doesn’t speak it and keeps repeating back to you she does not understand English

    • iansand says:

      07:25pm | 02/04/12

      ZSRenn - Try Cantonese.

    • CJS says:

      02:07pm | 02/04/12

      I’ve lived in China. If you learn Chinese you’ll get further and be more successful.  Yes, you can survive with just English, but your experience won’t be nearly as rich. Also, if you travel to the rural parts of China you will find it very difficult without some Chinese language skills.

      Reply

    • ZSRenn says:

      05:50pm | 02/04/12

      20 quai for a Tsingtao! Fuck, Shanghai is expensive!

      Reply

    • CJS says:

      06:53am | 03/04/12

      He’s drinking at a tourist bar…

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:33am | 03/04/12

      My point exactly and this makes him a China expert?

    • James says:

      06:07pm | 02/04/12

      Well China has 250 million people learning English…that’s more than 4 times the population of English! So not really a surprise, English is almost needed in most good jobs to get by these days.

      Reply

    • James Lovatt says:

      06:43pm | 02/04/12

      Please, somebody listen. Whilst it may be great for a few years to rely on China’s demand for our coal and iron, why does our government make it so hard for Chinese people to visit Australia.

      From what I can gather, the people from one of the world’s oldest civilisations are deemed “high risk” by our authorities when it comes to granting tourist visas. Applicants must show details of bank accounts, home ownership, relatives remaining in China for them to return to, and employment proof of their jobs in China.

      Do we seriously imagine that these folk shelter in bamboo huts, huddled in quilted jackets against blizzards and dream of nothing more than disappearing into the Australian bush?  For God’s sake, many of them are more affluent than the average Aussie. Let ‘em in and let’s watch our tourism industry, and particularly our shopping plazas, outstrip the mining sector in profitability.

      Reply

    • ZSRenn says:

      07:02pm | 02/04/12

      @ James. Our government once again is wrong and our press need to realise that Mao is dead.

    • marley says:

      07:09pm | 02/04/12

      @James Lovatt - China is our top source of visa overstayers and our top source of asylum seekers.  That’s why they are subject to more scrutiny than the Japanese or the Germans or the Americans.

    • ZSRenn says:

      07:12pm | 02/04/12

      I gotta say here guy. I am a bit worried about this blog.

      Marco Polo said ‘If you have been in China one day you know something about it. If you have been here one month you think you know it all. If you have been here for a year you realise you know fuck all.” Or something like that.

      I’ve been here for 5 and still learn something new, everyday, about China and about myself. I really do think you have bitten off more than you can chew. A bus trip from Shanghai to the Terracotta Army whilst on a school excursion does not teach you jack.

      Reply

    • Mark/Fox says:

      10:29pm | 02/04/12

      There was not enough room in China to speak any language when I was last there,let alone order a feed, wow are they overpopulated. you could live in a sardine can and have a better life.

      Reply

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:28am | 03/04/12

      You’ve never been!

    • Mark/Fox says:

      06:14pm | 03/04/12

      You’ve spent too much time in a sardine can. Or maybe not enough time looking at the one child policy. No they are just overpopulated!

    • DOB says:

      11:13pm | 02/04/12

      ps “wo yao” seems a bit rude to me…try “wo ke yi you”. Thats a better usage IMO

      Reply

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:34am | 03/04/12

      Ni shige baichi

 
Sorry, comments are now closed for this article.

Facebook Recommendations

Read all about it

Punch live

Up to the minute Twitter chatter

Paul Colgan

Colgo 23 May 13 11:07PM

@TheStalwart an analyst in Sydney said it was a "sad day" http://t.co/vh4Yu4OgDD. I think he was just exhausted and gave up analyzing

ToryShepherd

ToryShepherd 23 May 13 10:43PM

@CatherineDeveny @sydwritersfest A wobble

Paul Colgan

Colgo 23 May 13 10:38PM

RT @NASA: Amazing views from the International Space Station of Pavlof Volcano erupting in Alaska. http://t.co/vqBkkiOful

Paul Colgan

Colgo 23 May 13 10:30PM

US Google Doodle features a girl's touching depiction of her father's return from Iraq http://t.co/4LiRFOntTY

See all tweets

Recent posts

The latest and greatest

The Punch is moving house

by The Punch Team

385

The Punch is moving house

Good morning Punchers. After four years of excellent fun and great conversation, this is the final post…

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

by Hannah Harborow

122

Will Pope Francis have the vision to tackle this?

I have had some close calls, one that involved what looked to me like an AK47 pointed my way, followed…

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

by Sarrah Le Marquand

251

Advocating risk management is not “victim blaming”

In a world in which there are still people who subscribe to the vile notion that certain victims of sexual…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: Hasbro, go straight to gaol, do not pass go

Tim says:

They should update other things in the game too. Instead of a get out of jail free card, they should have a Dodgy Lawyer card that not only gets you out of jail straight away but also gives you a fat payout in compensation for daring to arrest you in the first place. Instead of getting a hotel when you… [read more]

From: A guide to summer festivals especially if you wouldn’t go

Kel says:

If you want a festival for older people or for families alike, get amongst the respectable punters at Bluesfest. A truly amazing festival experience to be had of ALL AGES. And all the young "festivalgoers" usually write themselves off on the first night, only to never hear from them again the rest of… [read more]

Light weight

Gentle jabs to the ribs

Superman needs saving

Superman needs saving

Can somebody please save Superman? He seems to be going through a bit of a crisis. Eighteen months ago,… Read more

28 comments

Newsletter

Read all about it

Sign up to the free News.com.au newsletter