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Childless singletons - the grass is always greener

Julia Thornton

by Julia Thornton

17 Feb 05:40am

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Filed under: Children, Motherhood, Parenting, Society

52 comments

I have the overwhelming feeling that I should ‘put up my dukes’ and rstep outside with Carrie Mille, who seems to think mothers with prams and gym memberships are the collective Devil.

Illustration: Nolan

For the record, I do not have a *gym membership, but I do have a pram and a child. So in the words of Meatloaf, two outta three ain’t bad.

But I had 34 years of being single and childless. So I don’t want anyone to tell me I don’t know what it’s like to see my friends off at the church, picking rice out of their bodices, and lament the loss of yet another cocktail buddy.

I’ve visited said friends a year or so later as they’ve been lying in hospital telling me about the nipple Nazis and cooing over their wee bairns first black nappy.

But I don’t think she’s seeing a true picture of parenthood if she thinks it’s all nannies, childcare and the endless work/life balance.

For a start, having a baby did more damage to my body than years of gin-soaked evenings at the pub.

Dawn was something that came at the end of a great night out, not after a 4am feed.

Has Miller ever been so tired she wants to vomit, but forced to sit and watch infomercials because the damn pay tv is in the wrong part of the house? No? Well being the life support system to an infant isn’t fun.

I also don’t think ‘our whole culture seems to revolve around the needs of parents’? I was hardly ever offered a seat on the bus or at the bus stop when I was pregnant

This is not some anti-feminist diatribe, and I was fine to stand. But you’d think that in a society that puts parents first, seats would be there for the picking.

What about when I was carefully strapping the child into her car seat at the shopping centre and was told to ‘get an effing move on’ so they could have my parking spot?

Muz Miller can assume that we have it all - the man, the kid, the baby bonus which has kitted us out in Lorna Jane and given us a head start on the reno budget.

But we can’t finish a bottle of champagne on a Friday night anymore. Not without the fear of a whack across the hangover to wake us up on Saturday.

Our Ipods are broken from the toddler chewing the earphones and using the other bit to whack the cats. Speaking of which, the cat was self-harming herself on some ornamental rocks due to the stress of the baby and had to be put on anti-depressants. It cost me a fortune and I’ve still got the scratch marks.

The DVD had to go when the grapes forced into it dripped into the electrics and shorted the entire house. Not that I minded, because most of the Dylan Moran DVDs were full of the F word.

Has Miller had to read Mem Fox? I have. Despite loathing that Fox’s politics, virtually every day I have to look for the ruddy green sheep.

So it’s not all hearts and flowers but I admit it’s ok. I’ve sacrificed my career, circa $100k a year, airconditioned offices and being able to read anything without pictures for hanging around the house in 97% humidity and playing with shakers and singing nursery rhymes.

It can be mind numbingly dull. But then, so can reading about the misconceptions of unmarried, childless people with their noses pressed against the glass.

* The money formerly spent on the gym is now used for swimming lessons for the child.

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52 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Isabel says:

      06:49am | 17/02/10

      Parenthood is the pathway to grandparenthood where it all gets BETTER.

      Reply

    • Phil says:

      07:03am | 17/02/10

      Isabel My parents think the same. They say if they knew now much fun grandchildren were they would have had them first.

      By the way they are much better grandparents than they were parents.

    • Isabel says:

      09:44am | 17/02/10

      Phil, that is because we remember what we did as parents and now know there is a better way - if ONLY our children would listen! LOL

    • Jo - Living Savvy says:

      10:24am | 17/02/10

      so true!  I see my parents and in-laws really enjoying time with my children which is great as I can focus on meeting their basic needs like sleep, food, shelter etc.

    • dw says:

      12:04pm | 17/02/10

      In some cultures it is the norm for grandparents to raise the children. It makes sense in a way. Grandparents are more mature, less restless and definitely not as self obessed as us 20-30 somethings

    • acker says:

      06:51am | 17/02/10

      I forgot how hard things were for the mother at the start (sore nipples) when mine were little bubs I think I woke up once when the eldest first came home but then blissfully slept like a log for the rest of the basinet in room period of both…..still no avoiding the poo poo nappies though, but fatherhood ealrly on is a lot easier

      Reply

    • Liz says:

      06:55am | 17/02/10

      Do hope you’re not grizzling here about the choice you made? Kids are an effort, life changers and once we thought we could have it all.We can’t, there have to be a few compromises. Very often parents think they don’t have to put kids first in their priorities and when they are with them they overcompensate and think we all adore them and their little ways which make the lives of others a misery.
      Yes I’m a parent, yes I love my daughter, yes I gave up full-time work to raise her and have no regrets.I did the best job I could and the results show.I wish others would do the same and stop raising a generation of demanding, stress-out kids with no boundaries.

      Reply

    • Julia says:

      08:20am | 17/02/10

      Sorry if it came across as a grizzle. I love my new job, but I would be lying if I didn’t mourn, just a little, what I used to have - particularly the income. But we decided that we wanted a happy, well adjusted person who becomes a good citizen. Not unlike your situation.

    • Old bag says:

      11:18am | 18/02/10

      Bingo! It’s a stay at home martyr!

      As RL Stevenson once wrote: “If your morals make you dreary, depend upon it—they are wrong”. I often think about that when some self-righteous pararsite who just didn’t want to be self-supporting tries to justify their unemployment by talking about “sacrifices” and how their children will be soooooo much better than the rest of ours.

      Pull your martyr head in. Nobody cares what you gave up. I want to hear what the poor man who had to support your laziness has to say about how much more “worth it” it was to shoulder the entire financial burden of the family, and miss out on quakity of life and time with the children because you had to do the “right thing”.

    • Jordan says:

      06:57am | 17/02/10

      Oh yeah, your a real iconoclast…

      Reply

    • Alice says:

      10:29am | 17/02/10

      three cheers for Julia!

    • DaisyMae says:

      07:03am | 17/02/10

      We all have our share of dramas having our children, but be honest the dramas are soon forgot when soft little arms wrap around your neck. Unlike you, I had my child when I was 17 years old, I am 55years old now and my son is 38 years old. Do I regret it? Not one moment of it. I come from a different World than todays world and marriage and family at a young age was acceptable. I would never recomend todays women to have children so young, live your life so that when you do have a child you feel content. We had no baby bonus all we had was lots of love.  And our children got through life just as well as kids today do.

      Reply

    • Phil says:

      07:17am | 17/02/10

      Here Here. I am sick to death of those who rightfully choose to have a childless existence trying to push their agenda on those who prefer children.

      I work with a childless by choice woman, who is lovely and we have friendly banter, but I respect her decision to enjoy her life and her husband travelling and doing as she chooses. But for the added cost I incur (at least $25,000 per annum for my two girls) I would say its the best money I have ever spent.

      My wife complains that our two daughters changed her body shape for the worse, pushing ribs into a different shape, rendering some lingerie bought for her no longer fitting. But she also realises that in her opinion her body was made for children and the changes are more than worth it as our girls grow up and shower her with love. She is a great wife and mother to them, and regardless of whether she changed or not, she is the mother of my children who I love honour and respect.

      Children are by far the best thing that has happened in my life and I am sure my wifes also. I have travelled the world on numerous times competed in a team in international sport and been successful. But holding your own child for the first time renders all that to irrelivance. Once of my best mates recons holding his daughter for the first time well and truly eclipsed holding up his world champsionship trophies or any of the 100’s of others trophies that have been won.

      The two best days I have ever experienced were the birth days of my girls. Winning world champsionships as elating as they were does not compete with the births.

      I am sure for my great days others without can say that they travelled more, went out without thinking that they had to come home to someone, but who is going to look after them when they get old. I know some dont have a choice in this matter, and for them I am deeply sorry for this scenario.

      It is a matter of choice but each side should respect the others.

      Ms Miller does sounds like she needs a cuddle.

      Reply

    • Kim says:

      10:13am | 17/02/10

      Wait until your girls are teenagers and then tell us how you feel…..  smile

    • Julia says:

      10:25am | 17/02/10

      Who’s going to look after you when you get old? Nursing homes are filled with people who have children. So Phi, there’s no guarantee.

    • James says:

      10:42am | 17/02/10

      This may be hard to comprehend Julia, but for the most part, parents do not view their children as commodities from which to extract value at some later point.  Once you have a child, you view of everything changes, and as a result, you do not need to gain from having a child - seeing it grow and thrive is reward enough.

      Kim, you clearly do not understand a parent’s love for their child if you think that misbehaviour will change that love.

    • Andrew K says:

      11:02am | 17/02/10

      Phil, hopefully we are in agreement that pushing any agenda onto others decisions is not only stupid, but insulting. This should also work in the reverse - those with children should not be looking down upon, or otherwise deriding the way others live their lives (whether by choice or circumstance).

      You have made your choice, are enjoying it, and by the sounds of it are doing it well. You are happy with your choice, and that is excellent. I extend to you my sincerest congratulations.

      Some people make different choices or have them made for them, and choose to contribute to society in other ways. This makes these people no better, or no worse. Just different. Society takes a whole lot more than simply continuing the species (which is of course is itself vital).

      Then there are are just idiots, regardless of what they choose or have chosen for them. Always will be unfortunately.

    • Phil says:

      01:07pm | 17/02/10

      Kim

      My girls are like angels. Sure the youngest has a fire in her belly. I will work with them to overcome any difficulty, but I will remain in charge in my home regardless. If they wish to leave that will be their decision. If they live under our roof then our rules go. .,...

      Having said that my love for them will never change and they know it even at 6 and 9. They know they cant do anything to make me love them more or less the true love a parent feels for their children is a never failing love. Even if they murder someone I may not like, and their will be consequences for their actions, but I will love them no less.

      Julia as a great friends of mine in the US says, the best thing about little girls is they will always look after their dad. As a close family I believe it is my duty to look after my parents, and hopefully but no guarantee my children will learn from this experience. I am not that close to my parents, but my youngest brother and I already financially subsidise their lifestyle and we are 40 and 41. Why because we can.

      Andrew K

      I agree completely. My decisions are working for me and I am a very happy and content person. I also wish you and all others well in their decisions. That is the best part about live, we are free to make decisions as we choose, but should not blame others if ours turn out wrong, nor cast dispersions on others whose choices differ from our own. We are in charge of our own destiny and will prosper or fail accordingly.

    • Kim says:

      02:40pm | 17/02/10

      Hey Phil, it was just a joke!  As a mother of 4 teenage boys, whom I love dearly, I also know that they are NOT angels and am totally aware of the chaos that teenagers cause in the home.  Even though I would like to think that it is my home and my rules apply, I know that it is also their home too and their leaving home is the last thing that I would want. 

      I bow down to your accomplishments - if you can accomplish it with the “They live under my roof and my rules apply…...” bit.  The only advice I wish to offer you is don’t take that too seriously.  Teenagers will test the boundaries and there is a LOT of give and take on both sides.  Don’t be too narrow minded - they will grow up and eventually leave home, but it would be better if they left with your love and happiness in their hearts rather than being leaving because they can’t live with your rules.

    • Julia says:

      09:18pm | 17/02/10

      But I do! Miller was saying I had no idea what it was like to be on ‘the other side’. But I did.

    • iansand says:

      07:25am | 17/02/10

      Oh for heavens sake.  Can we get over this crap?  Some people have children.  Some people decide not to.  When did that decision become a contest?  Who honestly thinks their decision gives them some form of moral high ground?  Anyone who thinks that should have a long hard look at themself and seek therapy immediately.  They are seriously deluded.

      Reply

    • acker says:

      08:39am | 17/02/10

      I agree “iansand”, most of those who don’t have kid’s I know tend to give a little bit more caring and nurturing to their nephews, nieces or perhaps even cousins.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      09:25am | 17/02/10

      Yep 100% correct.

      As usual the majority just get on with life – regardless of what it brings. The minority get on their high horse and spout this that and the other.  It really is nonsense and an excuse to have a whinge over your own situation.

      If you have difficulty coping Julia Thornton or Carrie Miller, then I’d suggest you seek medical, psychological or psychiatric assistance, maybe even a lactation consultant.

      Julia you are just in front of Carrie’s braindead claptrap and drivel.

      Oh and another thing, please stop and think about all of those families who * silently * look after their disabled children and have to cope with the enormous physical and emotional rollercoaster ride they have to endure. You should both count your blessings and please go back into your box.

    • Jane says:

      07:56am | 17/02/10

      Julia, you’ve completely missed the entire point of Carrie’s article. Like her, I am over those parents whose style of parenting raises self centred, selfish brats, who think that the world revolves around them (and those parents that encourage it!). But, despite the outcome, t I would still defend their right to be parents.

      Alternatively, many parents (and Julia you’re probably in this category) raise perfectly well adjusted and lovely children that are a joy to be around.

      Some people choose to be parents, others don’t. The only people we have to justify this decision to are ourselves, and therefore we should not be judged for our decisions.

      Reply

    • julie says:

      07:59am | 17/02/10

      the more we criticise and comment on people’s personal choices, the less we allow them to be a part of this landscape we call life.  when that can be achieved for every person, the allowing of their choices, the allowing of our own choices by others - on every topic, as part of their journey in life, that will be true acceptance for all.  its no contest, no one is living ‘better’.  Its sad that this is more and more common for people, governments etc - BAN this you cant do this that is wrong blah blah. Cmon now, play nice. Really, you’d be a lot happier.

      Reply

    • Robert King says:

      08:54am | 17/02/10

      If you’re going to ‘put up your dukes’, you’d better first learn to fight…otherwise you could end up just getting the shit punched out of you. In the words of ‘Barnsey’; ‘there ain’t no second prize’...third hardly rates a mention.

      As for ‘the misconceptions of unmarried, childless people with their noses pressed against the glass’…What the hell? Could you possibly tone down your radical post-modernist iconoclasm? I just don’t think I my nervous system can take anymore… Are you familiar with the term; ‘de facto’? It’s Latin…I think… although you’d probably call it ‘living in sin’. From the looks of Ms Miller, I’m sure she had her share of suitable suitors… and you were ‘picking rice out of your bodice’ until 34, you say? Who’d have thought?

      Anyway, I’m sure you’ve got pipes and slippers you need to be fetching before father gets home. By the way; that smell? It isn’t just all those soiled nappies in the kitchen tidy; it’s the corpse of irony, decomposing in your back yard.

      Reply

    • James says:

      10:45am | 17/02/10

      You don’t put dirty nappies in the kitchen bin.  You put them straight into the wheelie bin.  Duh.

    • Robert King says:

      07:45pm | 17/02/10

      @James;

      Ouch! Gee thanks! Who would have thought that I’d be privileged with a completely enthralling insight into Jimmy’s views on waste-management… and for free!? Do you mean that for those three kids I could’ve just been trotting each individual soiled nappy in the wheelie bin, instead of re-using those little sticky tabs secure them as tightly wrapped bundles, for later disposal? What if I’d lived in a unit, not a house? What on earth would I have done? Please do go on; I for one eagerly await your next pronouncement on baby-waste etiquette…

      It’s getting like channel Nine in here… only ‘more stupider’

    • Samantha says:

      09:02am | 17/02/10

      Honestly this reads like a giant whinge.  It really must suck having your pay tv in the wrong part of the house.  I wouldn’t know because I don’t have pay tv.  I guess it must also suck that your baby has ruined your body and your ipod and your dvd player. Damn society forcing you to reproduce!! Oh wait, that’s right, nobody forced you.  It was your choice to become a parent.

      Reply

    • Paul says:

      09:16am | 17/02/10

      ‘Jane’ you’re dreaming - “The only people we have to justify this decision to are ourselves, and therefore we should not be judged for our decisions.” - however it works both ways” - if you don’t wanna be judged, then pay for the brats yourself! Stop wasting my taxes

      Reply

    • Radical Chick says:

      09:51am | 17/02/10

      I had a high flying career before the kids came….now they are at school and I am finding it hard to go back to work…. I have been a professional for as long as I can remember….but i kid you not…I never have done anything as hard as Parenthood is….
      It is not just about cleaning after the kids and making sure they have a healthy meal. It is also not about trying to buy a shirt while the kid run around the store and you try to control them all the while trying to shop for something….(and now I shockingly find out that some singles out there are berating me for not having time for a nice drink with them…..ha!)
      It is about getting every resource that you have inside to raise good, generous people. It is about answering them as to why a 13 year old killed a 12 year old. And sit and pray with them so that they may ask God to help them never to do that…..parenthood is full of poignant moments you never saw coming. Or thought you had the resources to manage.

      Reply

    • Here we go again says:

      10:11am | 17/02/10

      We’ve yet to read the “interest piece” from Punch’s resident misanthrope explaining why they “hate” parents and non-parents equally.  A guaranteed compelling read and imagine the comments…....

      Reply

    • Astrosodi says:

      10:14am | 17/02/10

      I commented yesterday on Christopher Scanlan’s attack on Carrie Miller’s purge. Yes, they were full of hyperbole and designed to elicit comment. Fair enough. But hte responses were, frankly, more astounding that both those pieces put together. The vitriole with which people comment is surely just tragically wasted energy, totally misdirected.

      Childless people were children, yes. Children broaden the horizons of many (but certainly not all) parents. Parents - your gorgeous, invigorating, screaming, testing, and amazing children (no sarc. there, no parent would argue that children are nothing if not everything!) will all too quickly grow up to be adults. I hope that you love them as much when they (and quite a few will, grow up to be childess (through choice, or through circumstance) and you won’t consider them ungrateful, selfish, people with limited self-development or human understanding.
      Hopefully you love you spouse as much as you did when you met, and that now that you have children you don;t think that that relationship has helped you grow or is meaningless now that you have children. Childless couples have a myriad of complex relationships, looking after parents, children (perhaps not their own) and friendships and family. Hopefully those don;t stop making you a better person once you’ve had kids; I’d hate to think that my friendship with my sister meant nothing to her after her children.

      Hopefully we all appreciate the huge contributions people make to society regardless of their status as parents or childless. A childless person who works tirelessly raising money for children’s charities, or works through the night for children with luekaemia is, I’m sure, an angel in the eyes of that child’s parents.

      Yes, Julia, despite not having children, I have been so tired I could vomit—and not from partying. From caring for a sick, elederly relative (driving for two hours each day , straight from work, then drivbing back after they’d been cared for so I could get back to work while working ridiculaous hours at the beehest of my employer, because, apparently, I only have a de facto to go home to, not a family. Where were the this relatives children? Too busy with their families to stop to help her out.

      I’m not complaining about the parents who needed to go home to their wonderful kids (again, no sarc.) nor blaming them, I’m merely commenting that even people without children have responsibilities - real responsibilities. I don’t blame them; they were genuinely busy. So was I, but I squeezed in more time, because regardless of whether I have children, the people I love and care are my most valued assets.

      And I travel. I don’t travel as a way to pass the time becuase I don’t have kids. How many times have I had to deflect that sarcastic insinuation. I don;t begrudge people who have kids any pleasure and personal time they can scrape together—it’s very hard having kids. Me not having children isn’t a ‘choice’ as such. I am gay, and would love children. Double edged sword—the same people who are most vehement that I’m a selfish ego-maniac for not having children are usually the same people who would say that I am not a suitable person to have them based on a single criteria. So, to gain insights into other cultures, other people, I travel. Call me selfish, but isn;t parenting also a journey of self-discovery, which the parent is getting a lot out of?

      Congratulations to all those people who bring children into the world and do a fantastic job raising them. I adore my sister more because she is a wonderful mother. Has she also confessed to me that she wishes she had more personal time and an adult or tow to talk to during the day? She certainly has. Have I confessed to her that I would love to be able to experience being a parent, and share the joys she has raising three divine and sparkling children? I most certainly have.

      Even a wise and good choice is a ‘choice’. She has made hers, and I have made mine. We both make the best of it, and make sure that we continue to inspire each other and add value to each others lives. Perhaps spend less time criticising and more time letting people share their knowledge, wisdoms, and experiences. Many parents miss out on experiences that those without children can take advantage of, and they can be as educational and enlightening as the experiences that parents can share with those who don;t, for whatever reason, have the blessing of a child.

      Reply

    • James says:

      11:01am | 17/02/10

      It is a real injustice that someone like you can be barred from having children just because you happen to be gay.  So many of my heterosexual contemporaries are terrible parents, and yet would prevent someone as passionate as you from having children, not on the basis of your potential as a parent (which in my view sounds very high), but simply because of something you are, and did not choose.

    • Bec says:

      11:05am | 17/02/10

      Fantastic. Thank you for bringing some logic and sense to this whole debacle.

      Again - it has been mentioned but I’ll do it again - just because a person is childless, doesn’t mean they hate children. The frustrations a lot of childless people (including myself) experience, are based on the fact that those with children patronise and belittle us constantly. I have strangers ask me do I have kids - when I respond with no “When are you having them? You’re not having any” - at times this can go one or two ways, i’ve gotten “Wow, how can you be so selfish?” OR “What’s wrong with you?” OR “why not?” (infertility is the response). “Oh, just get IVF then.” (not an option because I would not be able to carry my husband’s child) - “well just use donor sperm: (I don’t want to) “Oh then just adopt” (do you have any idea how much it costs?) “well, don’t you feel like your life will be lacking without kids?”

      And on and on and on it goes. And let’s remember, these are strangers. People who I’ve met 10-15 minutes prior. Do I go around asking them if they had sex or whether they use contraception? No, but apparently they can ask me about my fertility cycle with no sense of shame.

      I have friends who have kids. Quite a lot of them can be patronising too - i’ve heard things like “Just get IVF” and “You’ll never understand real pain because you’ve never been through childbirth” (which is bull - I’ve had major health issues which I was told in no uncertain terms was a hell of a lot more painful than childbirth - and those symptoms lasted months not hours) and “Your life will always be lacking” and on and on and on. Not all of them, I have some great friends with kids, but there are people out there who feel that because they have reproduced, they are the experts in the world.

      THAT’S the issue. You can have kids, I will celebrate your life choices, I love my friends who have kids the same way that I love my friends without them. But DON’T belittle our lifestyle or call us selfish or self-centred or ignorant or that we don’t understand the way the world works. You may not know the reasons why someone chooses (or has had that choice taken away from them like myself) to not have kids, but to be quite frank, it’s none of your damn business.

    • dancan says:

      10:25am | 18/02/10

      I was in a fairly annoyed mood after reading that article and the responses posted here, I was going to post some anger filled comment as well.  How things can change after reading one logical, thought out and fairly insighful response. Thankyou Astrosodi for saving me from acting like an idiot.  I’m off to listen to my music and get back to work.  Que Sera, Sera - Whatever Will Be, Will Be.

    • Andrew K says:

      10:50am | 17/02/10

      Can we just get over all this (now daily) sanctimonious crap from both ‘sides’. Do a blog on Melbourne v Sydney, AFL v NRL, Holden v Ford, Rockers v Surfies. Anything just to break this childless v child yes tediom.

      Parents as a group have no moral high ground over non-parent. Non-parents as a group have no moral high ground over parents.  There are selfish, ignorant, and/or arrogant idiots in both (and all) groups that cause issues for others. This has nothing to do with what ever they have chosen to do with their life. They will be those same things regardless. Lets just do a blog on idiots then - this status based general warfare is a load of tripe.

      Continual harping on about perceived superiority over, or issues caused by another group has nothing to do with anything other than self-esteem and insecurity issues with the aggrieved party. You have a problem with someone being an idiot to you.  Stop trying to make it “us” versus “them” to make yourselves feel better.

      Why do we all feel that we are better than anyone else? What the F happened to empathy?

      People should put their all into whatever they do, and be good at it. If they do then that is amazing. Whether if be bringing up a child, curing disease, creating thought provoking art works. Whatever. We all add to society in different ways. Do it well and consider others. Job done.

      Reply

    • NKY says:

      11:08am | 18/02/10

      Completely agree. And I’d like to add - why can’t everybody just mind their own damn business and get on with their lives without constantly comparing to everyone else.

    • Mr Peeved says:

      11:03am | 17/02/10

      You on 100K a year??? Just what the hell is going on? 13 years in the cursed Govt sector and what else,  “Corporate Communications”?? I’ve never heard one damned corporate speak nothing more than a load of gibberish!!! Just what do you people do???
      I’ve seen lots of business and communications consultants engaged by stupid CEO’s to “re brand” their companies image and charge squillions to deliver nothing more than a new logo, mission statement and change a few department names only to then leave the place in a complete mess!

      As a damned professional Engineer with over 25 years of experience I am on a similar salary level but worth 10 times what you are.

      How is it you sexy inner city types with “communications degrees” majoring in aromatherapy botty branding and creative business think tanking can command such exorbitant renumeration??? It would seem the more intangible and unproductive your job title the greater some Govt idiot is willing to pay.

      God I hope this finanial crisis blossoms into an absolute catastrophe that will make the Great Depression look like economic boom times! At least then with enough Governments close to bankruptcy we can purge the world of unproductive useless public service types and build a decent economy that actually creates real wealth and perhaps just perhaps people who actually contribute to that wealth will be renumerated accordingly.

      Reply

    • Kim says:

      11:47am | 17/02/10

      Mr Peeved.  It’s called keeping the masses employed…...

    • Helen says:

      12:16pm | 17/02/10

      Well, that was better out than in…
      ...I think… hmmm
      *Wipes spittle off*

    • Astrosodi says:

      11:05am | 17/02/10

      Just an ‘add, please’. Parents don;t raise children in isolation. Teachers, uncles, aunts, grandparents, family friends…All of them, I hope, parents keep in their lives and in contact with their children because they can bring perpectives and attitudes and encouragement into their children lives, and contribute ideas and experiences and knowledge that the parents don’t have. The children in my family, I hope, can benefit from my experiences in travelling and also from my perspectives on things. I had one parent who sat straight-faced at my dinner table and told me that “Discriminating against people now is okay, because we won’t in the future.” When I repeated that back to him as a question, he said “It seems wrong when you say it like that, but, yeah.” I hope that his children have some other people in their lives who can provide a bit of balance to that lesson.

      Reply

    • Bec says:

      11:11am | 17/02/10

      Agree again!! I’m a teacher - a childless teacher (not by choice) - and I chose this profession because in some way I hope to make an impact on kids lives. I don’t need to give birth to kids to help raise them - I spend my days helping kids learn how to read and write, to learn about the past in the hopes that those lessons will help them to make the right choices in the future. I also teach them tolerance - I won’t allow any racist or homophobic comments in my classroom; we study novels and concepts such as refugees and indigenous issues. We all do what we can to help to try to shape our world. Just because I didn’t push a baby out doesn’t mean I can’t have an impact…

    • Philip says:

      06:44pm | 17/02/10

      Bec

      Completely agree with you. Teachers can have a massive impact on our kids. That is not always good, but an impact either way. My youngest loved her Kindergarden Teacher, but is less liking her year 1 teacher. She asked to change class which resulted in a good talking too and a chat with the teacher she did not like to smooth it over.

      Good luck with your teaching. With the attitude you seem to show I am sure you will have a big and positive impact.

    • Joe says:

      02:42pm | 17/02/10

      I think the problem arises when those who choose not to have children feel a need to justify their guilt. They need to justify to themselves that they aren’t missing out on anything and that the love of a little child is so over rated. I personally think they are kidding themselves…

      Reply

    • Freddo says:

      03:48pm | 17/02/10

      Ha Ha,
      I think the problem arises when those who choose to have children feel a need to justify their decision. They need to justify to themselves that they aren’t missing out on anything and that the love of their little child is not over rated. I personally think they are kidding themselves…

      There i fixed that for you.

    • Helena B says:

      05:58pm | 17/02/10

      With or without children your kidding yourself if you think your life will run smoothly. Being childless give you the advantage of over self indulgence, but in later life you pay the piper. When other older women are out with their sons and daughters and grandchildren, you sit home alone. Mothers on the hand pay the penalties for the joys of having children earlier in life, they reap their rewards in old age with love and companionship. The same applies to men. We all have choice and sometimes we wish we made others BUT these choices are yours think carefully and choose the path you wish to follow.

      Reply

    • Sandra says:

      07:50am | 18/02/10

      “rewards in old age with love and companionship”

      @ Helena. That “you will be lonely in old age” chestnut. Never heard that one before trotted out by the smug child-burdened.

      Go visit an oldies’ home and see for yourself the elders who dress up every weekend in anticipation for the children and grandchildren who never visit because they now are focussed on their own families.

      To suggest that having children is a way to remedy loniless in old age is indeed “self indulgent”. And people like you have the termerity to call the childfree “selfish”.

    • Murali says:

      09:16pm | 17/02/10

      Interesting debate indeed thats been raging over the last 2 days, and i must say. Just wanted to share my 2 cents worth. I agree with Miller actually that parenting is a choice, an option, and as with options, we ALL have EQUAL rights to say ‘yes’ or ‘no’. So when some women who say ‘yes’ to having children get ALL the clout, therein lies the problem. Yes yes, those who have children will NOT have to worry in their old age yada yada, but, the reason we are having children is not purely an obligatory care in our golden years is it? So, if both options of being for and against childbearing have EQUAL merits, why is it then society, governments and the economy as such glorify mums and not singles? Tax breaks, mums. Higher respect for being able to overcome the rigors of parenting, mums and the list goes on..Is being single a liability, that society itself subconsciously prefers mums? Ask yourself this, we all have our roles in life, some maybe being a mum of 8, and some being a manager of 100, but we ALL matter EQUALLY in the bigger scheme of things. Our contributions to society complete one another, and that relationship should be respected and acknowledged.

      Simple question. If all the women in the world were mothers, who’d be doing the work that keeps this world moving, likewise, if having children becomes out of trend someday and all women work, what then? Extinction? Evolution?

      Reply

    • Kate says:

      07:38am | 18/02/10

      Love your work Julia. You write so well - I really enjoyed your post. I’m single and childless but more due to mismanagement than choice. I didn’t realise you actually had to put time and effort into finding a co-parent /partner until it was way too late. Still, I am fine with it and am a very respectful childless person when I see mums with prams or those who who need time to vacate car spots. And I don’t think you were whinging. You’ve done a great job with your post.

      Reply

    • Moggy says:

      09:38am | 18/02/10

      You think things are hard now JUlia?? Just wait until baby hits teenagerhood.  It never ceases to amaze me when I hear about unemployable teenagers because you’d think that employers would be killing each other to employ somebody who knows everything!! Teenage years are the total opposite of babyhood in that babies adore us for just being there, but teenagers loathe us for the same…..& the fact that we’re so stupid, dumb, embarrassing, can’t drive a car properly, have no dress sense & wreck their fun by saying “NO!” when they want to borrow the car to go joy riding with their mates after drinking a gallon of booze! Teenagers are rude, arrogant & enjoy telling their “olds”  that they’re stupid….then can’t understand it when the said “olds” refuse to pay for tickets to some scumbag rock band. The great thing about this is that the teenager won’t speak to you for a month & you at least get to enjoy some peace, well, apart from having the scumbag rock bands dreadful noise known as music wafting through your house at all hours of the day & night & turned up to a volume that will drown out a 747. Babies are easy work compared to teenagers, so enjoy being adored by your child. It won’t last.

      Reply

    • John says:

      01:00pm | 18/02/10

      When we had babies, and all the troubles and problems that go with them, my conclusion was that the only thing worse than having children was not having children.  Families with children pay a high prices, but the rewards are higher.

      Reply
 
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