Child abuse in churches is not yet history

k says:

01:58pm | 26/07/11

@Atthepub- I was abused by my uncle who raised a hindu but was really an atheist. Does this mean “Uncles” are all paedophiles? Or is it just people raised as hindus? Or is it just an atheist problem? Oh and by the way he became a doctor- so maybe it’s just doctors then?
Abuse in the church is terrible YES, but paedophiles are everywhere- doctors, policeman, teachers, public servants, religious and non-religious. Covering up abuse is terrible- but my family did it too- too cover their shame and mine (as well as the paedophiles). This is an extremely complex issue and not one that is restricted to just one group…
oh and @ Cathy. My life has been changed by what happened to me, but I have freedom to live and I have grown through the experience. I hope that my experience will equip me to protect not only my children but other children as well. While I wish it had never happened, I do not want pity nor do I think my life is defined by what happened to me. Yes child abuse is terrible - keep speaking out against it please but in fairness to victims of abuse please don’t just focus on one set of victims. If you look at the stats the bulk of us are abused by family members.

James says:

12:26am | 27/07/11

In fact, the catholic church has a much lower rate of sex abuse than the general population, and the stats are on the net for all to see.  Why so much attention on the church? you’d have to ask the media that!

SD-IRE says:

11:45pm | 27/07/11

James says:12:26am | 27/07/11

Are you serious? Why so much focus on the church? Really?

Yeah, why would there be focus on an organisation that lectures us on morality, which has covered up these issues and shipped off the priests to a different town to do it all again.

Hey, if the the police commissioner was covering up allegations of corruption in the police force, do you think it’d make some press.

Shane* says:

09:32am | 26/07/11

They don’t even bother rinse in most cases.

grant says:

09:36am | 26/07/11

Hmm interesting. 

I agree you have been seeing an increase in reporting of child abuse in the catholic church by the Punch and many other media outlets and publishers.

Maybe, just maybe its because that the catholic church has been systemically sexually abusing children for a very very long time.

The fact that you have more of a problem with the ‘reporting’ of child abuse than the actual child abuse itself is deeply troubling to me though.

Shane* says:

10:05am | 26/07/11

Actually Grant, the Catholic Church has systematically covered up sexual abuse; it has not systematically abused. I think you’ll agree there is a small degree of distinction between the two. One is horrendously irresponsible and catering to evil, the other would be actively and horrendously evil (if it happened, which it didn’t).

And another point: how does Margaret’s comment suggest that she has more of a problem with the reporting than the abuse itself? Straw man, much?

But please, don’t let me stand in your way. A lot of folks seem to relish the chance to attack a religion and still be considered PC. After all, the Catholics are the only “fair game” in town anymore…

Margaret Gray says:

10:28am | 26/07/11

“...The fact that you have more of a problem with the ‘reporting’ of child abuse than the actual child abuse itself is deeply troubling to me though…”

And yet a legion of bureacrats and social workers continue to ignore incidences of child abuse amongst immigrant communities lest it be deemed racial profiling, discriminatory and lacking in ‘sensitivity’.

One disgraceful predator last week even tried to pathetically blame his “culture” for his vile, abusive impulses.

Paedophilia is unfortunately common across many religions yet Catholics appear to be the only one’s continually in the frame.

Explain to me why that is?

Seanr says:

11:23am | 26/07/11

“Explain to me why that is?”...easy target Margaret
Shane* made a good point, about the distinction between the coverup and the actual abuse in the Catholic Church. Both are horrendous but I have yet to see any data that proves that Catholic priests abuse more than any other group in society eg teachers, parents etc.
I spent most of my school life in all boys Catholic schools and I plan on sending my children to Catholic schools, even though I’m not a practising Catholic, because I think they provide a quality education.

Grant says:

02:04pm | 26/07/11

@all of the above

Simply stating that my statement is a straw doesn’t refute my position.

Because Margaret commented that the Punch provides too much coverage on paedophile Catholic priests (which she does regularly). 

Rather, than commenting that she is shocked that there have been more children abused by Catholic priests. 

It would appear to me that Margaret is more concerned with the reputation of the Catholic church and a perceived media bias than with the well being of molested children.

Margaret Gray says:

03:55pm | 26/07/11

“...there have been more children abused by Catholic priests…”

Where is your evidence for this baseless claim?

Rhino says:

09:26am | 26/07/11

80% of paedophiles are homosexual? Can you please verify that with some evidence. I think the catlick church in America has dumped that idea in their rather flawed report on clergy abuse.

Huey says:

11:10am | 26/07/11

Seriously expect any one to believe that?

Robert S McCormick says:

01:13pm | 26/07/11

David,
If you want to make such a sweeping, all-encompassing claim at least back it up with some statistical figures or other proof. Paedophilia is not simply about men having sex with little boys. It is also about men having sex with little girls. The statistics over many years have shown that most Child Sex Abuse is perpetrated by family members & close family friends & much of that involves little girls. “This is your & Daddy’s Little Secret” All good, heterosexual, upright citizens widely respected within the community!!!
Not all paedophile behaviour by priests etc. involves boys though that is what we hear most about. It sells papers & makes TV headlines!
Incidently the church does not “have to love & respect homosexuals”. They don’t. They hate them & at every oportunity they get they trot out a verse from some book in the Bible to justify their hatred. Oh! yes I know the old cry, too: “Hate the Sin, love the Sinner” - but that applies to many sins including those involved in “Daddy’s Little Secret” entered into with his little daughter.

Geoff - Brisbane says:

01:54pm | 26/07/11

@ Robert S McCormick - I would have thought you would say pedos are adults who have sex with children. But instead you claim it is only a male problem.

If you want to make such a sweeping, all-encompassing claim at least back it up with some statistical figures or other proof.

melle says:

12:14pm | 26/07/11

@P. Darvio,  If you’re the “public outcry”,  no wonder nothing’s happening.

melle says:

01:53pm | 26/07/11

graham easom:  Around 21 comments.  No public outcry.

“...pit of pestilence….”?  That sort of language doesn’t help your cause.  Maybe your personal experience, but not the majority’s.  You should be looking at the increase in paedophilia in relation to the increase in pornography.
It’s overwrought to state Catholics are turning away from reporting abuse.
Hope this doesn’t upset you. 
M.

graham says:

04:39pm | 26/07/11

melle .. would you report a priest for sexually assaulting children? Or would you advocate “counselling”, the catholic’s answer to everything.
You didn’t answer why I thought that you considered the outcry against paediphilia within the catholic church to be “predictable”. We both know it is because we both know, you and I, that this evil, unnatural behaviour is endemic within your chosen circle of pagan worship. And it is “predictable” that good people will cry out against it.
And if you are suggesting that I, and my neighbour, and the bloke, (and sheila) up the road will be channeled into abusing children because we have seen horrible photos of some paediphile abusing children then you need help. Quickly.
Criticise me if you will, (I’m far from perfect), but find room in your heart for the fact, (!) of priestly molestation, and the suffering of the children so abused.

melle says:

05:02pm | 26/07/11

graham, I’m not a great believer in “counselling”, fullstop.
Who is worshipping pagans?
What are you talking about?
Child molesters are vile.  Of course victims are damaged.  But you made wild generalisations about a church and all its followers.  That isn’t right.
And I certainly don’t have all the answers.
I’ll leave it at that.
M.

Lawrie says:

05:16pm | 18/08/11

Statistics say one in three girls are sexually molested . In boys its one in six . In Catholic run Institutions namely Orphanages etc. its one in two who are affected as victims or where witnessed by other children .You can’t argue against , that the Catholic Church has had the biggest problem in this area .

graham easom says:

12:45pm | 26/07/11

What public outcry?  The article is overdone, and predictable? No, your own dismissal has proven the need for an enquiry here, where you live, where you read frequently about catholic priests abusing children. And where you shrug it off, for your own reasons.
It’s not just the priests, bishops, archbishops, and the pope who stand accused by their own actions, it is the church itself. The whole of it. Every catholic who turns away from reporting child abuse whether by priests or anyone else has contributed to the furtherence of child abuse.
I am a public outcry, Melle, and will continue to be. Still overdone?
To say that attacks on this pit of pestilence called the catholic church are predictable simply says that you know that paediphilia within the church thrives. And, apparently, with no objection. And it will, melle, continue to thrive. Without objection. Without a public outcry. Let’s have a huge outcry!

Margaret Gray says:

01:27pm | 26/07/11

Not surprisingly, the two (thoroughly predictable) articles on Gay Marriage and Catholic Bashing have the lowest comment rates today.

In fact the lowest comment rates for some months.  This would seem to broadly refelct the level of interest amongst the community.

Maybe “Australia’s best conversation” needs to rethink contributions on these topics?

I’m all for diversity of opinion but this horse has been flogged and munted mercilessly and no-one really cares anymore save a few lobbyists and activists.

Grant says:

02:30pm | 26/07/11

@ Another Chris @ Margaret Gray

The report states:

The report released last week states that the catholic church.

“as recently as 2008, were failing to report suspected cases of child sexual abuse “

I can’t believe you guys don’t even care that child molestation is being covered up. 

Why are you two more concerned about a website opinion piece than the welfare of sexually molested children?

This is what is wrong with society today.

Another Chris says:

03:32pm | 26/07/11

Grant,
I am concerned about Children being molested.
What I am going to say will echo pretty much everyone else.
“It’s deplorable” ...Just because I don’t comment on it here doesn’t mean I’m not concerned. I am also a cynic of the Media and Editorial Integrity.
What I don’t like is that as a result, the Church over all, more so the Christians get tarred with the same brush as “kiddy fiddlers”
Some (not all) Catholic leaders are to blame. ALL need to make it a responsibility to flush it out.

At the end of the day, I’ve observed an ongoing pattern in the the punch.
Discredit the Church in one hand, Pro Gay Marriage in the other. This seems to be the trend in the Media full stop.

Margaret Gray says:

04:18pm | 26/07/11

Grant says:  “...The report states…”

For starters this is an Irish report.  About the Catholic Church IN IRELAND.

Not Great Britian, not the United States, not Italy, not even Australia.

Ireland.

By all means condemn their atrocities from afar but do you have any evidence of similar complicit denial and cover-up by the Catholic Church in Australia of such crimes?

If you do PROVE IT.

By your extension, local imams should be decrying with the same veracity the polygamy, paedophilia and female circumcision practices by international followers of their faith.  Do they?

This appalling charge of guilt by association is the same type of haters rhetoric and hyperbowl (sic) emanating from the Greens, Independents and Labor in their cat calls for a media inquiry because some deplorable News Limited journos hacked cell phones in Great Britain.

According to this - and your - logic it MUST then happen here surely.

If it does, PROVE IT.

++++NEWSFLASH++++
White, right-wing, lunatic, islamaphobic Christian murders white Norwegians therefore all right wing Christians are lunatics, hate Islam and are predisposed to murder white people…especially Norwegians.

Truly ridiculous and offensive.

Shane* says:

04:44pm | 26/07/11

@ Grant,

What you’ve failed to realise is that no-one here (or in their right mind) has said ‘Ho hum, oh well, life goes on’ about the abuse. Of course we’re all appalled and enraged by the abuse and the subsequent coverup.

What Margaret, Chris and I have decided is that rather than simply echo the same outcry of anger that has happened thousands of times before, we are keen to make sure people don’t misrepresent the issue.

Misrepresentation #1: The issue is NOT about systematic abuse by the Church (as you yourself typed). It is about abuse and a systematic coverup.

Misrepresentation #2: The theory that Catholics care more about the reputation of the church than they do about abuse victims. For the overwhelming majority of Catholics, this is absolute garbage. The palpable rage that permeats Ireland to this day is evidence of that. The mass exodus from the Church is evidence of that. The abuse victim outreach programs are evidence of that.

Misrepresentation #3: The suggestion that this problem is largely a Catholic problem. Wrong. The evil committed by priests is just all the more alarming because of their status and trusted position, which an evil minority has betrayed.

There are pedophile teachers, doctors, police officers etc, but they rarely hold themselves up to the same lofty moral standards. There is scant evidence anywhere that pedophilia is more prevelant among the priesthood. If it is, the difference is minor. Where the distinction lies is thus: the deplorable coverup, the clandestine moving of criminal priests from parish to parish, and the trust that these actions shattered.

Finally, as Another Chris has highlighted, Catholics are an easy target and the ongoing effort to undermine the church in the eyes of the public is likely heavily influenced by objections to unrelated Church teachings. If you want the public to lose faith in the Church, you continually bring up child abuse. This serves a purpose if you need to get abortion reform or gay marriage legislation passed, as it automatically casts any church heirarchy opinion under a cloud of abuse.

The Punch occasionally runs a very argumentative post from the ACL or something similar to further unsteady public perceptions of Christianity. As The Punch exhibits a very clear pro-gay marriage lean, I think it’s reasonable of Another Chris to question whether the two topics run side-by-side (consciously or unconsciously) so often to subtly support gay marriage.

Grant says:

05:25pm | 26/07/11

@ guys guys

Come on. 

Look, just because you guys hate children and love the Catholic church does not mean you should go all exorcist on my ass.

Another Chris says:

05:40pm | 26/07/11

@ Grant,

Couldnt have said it better… thank you

Dare I say, it seems almost obvious this is the ultimate agenda of the Punch Editors.
Whilst there is nothing wrong with discussion on said topics, what is in some cases hearsay quickly becomes misinterpreted as fact and before we know it, Joe Public is regurgitating what the Media have said as being FACT.  We see enough articles on here Pro BLGT Marriage, Anti Christianity (or in that vein) to shape opinion. The line between fact and fiction, mixed with some emotional manipulation becomes blurry at a rapid rate of knots.

Another Chris says:

06:02pm | 26/07/11

Correction to the above post /...@Shane

Austin 3:16 says:

07:36pm | 26/07/11

Hey Grant,

Well who can focus on a trivial issue like the cover-up of abuse when there are much more important things like media conspiracies that need attention.

Another Chris says:

11:54am | 27/07/11

@ Austin, Grant…

Nice deflection. The fact that we’re commenting on the integrity of the editors et al says nothing about our sentiments on the issue of Child Abuse. Oh yes… we hate children with such passion… grow up and accept the fact you couldn’t see the wood for the trees in our argument..
We’re just looking at the bigger picture… Another Blog on this subject does nothing to help it’s cause. What are we all going to do here? Shake our heads and curse the catholic church? That’s about all we can do. It does more to dredge up hate for the Church than Help Kids being abused. Those terrible terrible Kids… o_O

Austin 3:16 says:

06:04pm | 28/07/11

Hey Another Chris,

Right so having the media ignore the problem would be the best way to help?

Sweeping things under the carpet is part of the problem, cute that you’re willing to give it another try though.

swansea says:

02:10pm | 26/07/11

“who themselves have probably also indulged in child sex”.

You would have to have boarded in every school, in every country, to know all that as fact.
My three brothers boarded (in the ‘70s) and all say they never heard this abuse mentioned.  Theirs was a good experience.  And it’s dreadful that others’ experiences were entirely different.
You’re drawing a long bow.

God would condemn celibacy as a mortal sin?  What?  So you would say this to all the young women in today’s society who are without husbands, and children? 
What are you saying?

graham says:

04:16pm | 26/07/11

Swansea, Robert said, “probably”, and you go ranting away that he would have had to visit every     etc, etc,. Many children, having been abused by the catholic church are then given “sanctuary” in that same church. They are ashamed in many cases to face the world and the church takes advantage. They then become priests and away we go again. You know that this is so and if that is the only criticism you have of Robert’s very accurate and informing post then of course we will all agree that you also agree with the bulk of that comment.
Oh, wait a minute.  An apology. I’m glad your brothers thought that their stay at boarding school was “enjoyable”. That’s nice.
And I think that the majority of sensible people reading Robert’s piece would understand that he meant that your non-existant god, even in your understanding would condemn “enforced celibacy” as distinct from chosen or circumstantial celibacy as being unnatural. But that’s the whole argument, isn’t it Swansea? We normal people think that sexual attacks on our children are abnormal, animalistic, and an abomination, whereas you lot seem to accept, cover-up, condone, and perpetuate this most evil and horrendous crime.
Why?, please someone tell me were nuns brought in to the circle, always adjacent to the seminary. Or should that be ‘semenary’?

Cynical_Me says:

06:40pm | 27/07/11

Really… wow and you would know this because?

Heck if you’re right this I’m spending my Sunday mornings in the wrong place (being single, without kids, and under the age of 30)!

Austin 3:16 says:

06:08pm | 28/07/11

On the other hand S116 of the Constitution says:

The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion, or for imposing any religious observance, or for prohibiting the free exercise of any religion, and no religious test shall be required as a qualification for any office or public trust under the Commonwealth.