Charlie Teo and the race to shut down important debate

Nathan says:

06:54am | 24/01/12

“There isn’t a single incident of ethnic cleansing in our history” Ah yeah we cleared out many of the aboriginals aggressively back in the day (might not be genocide but not exactly a great aspect of Australia’s history) , besides that though we don’t have to go to those extremes to be classed as racist.

I often here about this “racial criteria” and i have my doubts that it is as common as people on here write about. Its not like if one candidate is black and the other is white you have to hire the black. It only comes into play if they are equal candidates.

The white man has done alright and i think this reverse racism talk is crap. How many ethnic minorities miss out because of a racist employer?

Most countries have a problem with racism its not like it is just Australia but i have a hard time believing that we don’t. The cronulla riots where not that long ago and i think we saw the ugly side of racism on both sides there.

marley says:

07:17am | 24/01/12

I think the Aborigines might differ with you on that one.  Our history is not as bad as Nazi Germany’s, but that’s hardly a yardstick to be proud of.  Have we done as well as other countries with substantial indigenous populations?  Are we doing as well?  Those are yardsticks, and I wouldn’t put us at the top of the class.  Not the bottom, either, but maybe a mark of “promising, tries hard, could do better.”

TChong says:

07:19am | 24/01/12

Super D
except for the deliberate attempt at genocide the Tassie Kooris were subject too, and repeated elsewhere on a more local scale eg Myall creek, and the Chinese at Lambing flat attacked by caucasian miners.
Yep , except for that, you’d be correct.

sam says:

07:21am | 24/01/12

not a single incident of ethnic cleansing, at least, not since we nearly wiped out all the aboriginals. Since then, yeah we’ve been sweet

Fred says:

07:55am | 24/01/12

It also irks us because the PC crowd conveniently live in denial of the way the world was and still is. Force wins the day. The white man had the best force at the time (and still do, I hope) and so we won. So therefore this country is OURS.

It also irks me that there’s this idea that just because we have a lot of bogans, that we should ruin the country with overpopulation, instead of just putting up with them.

Teo’s idea that we should let in more refugees just because one or two of them would be smart enough to be a doctor and may be as good as him, also irks me.

Just because an Indian or Chinaman cop a bit of verbal abuse every now and then we should have a big discussion? Please. I, and probably most people have copped ten tonnes of shit from my fellow countrymen. Doesn’t mean I want to hold a summit.

For the most part PC just amounts to “we don’t like white people, particularly white men, so we want to f you over” from the left and “we want more money and more cheap labour” from the right.

acotrel says:

08:06am | 24/01/12

@marley
’  Our history is not as bad as Nazi Germany’s, but that’s hardly a yardstick to be proud of. ‘

We are working on it !  John Howard recognised that Pauline Hanson had a following, that’s why we hate asylum seekers.  Our problem is that most of us don’t travel overseas, and find out that the vast majority of people on this planet are different from us. Racism in Australia is from top to bottom.  In this respect the LNP is a disgrace for using the xenophobia card, they’ve brought the whole Australian population into disrepute, right from Parliament House in Canberra !

T-rev says:

08:22am | 24/01/12

Given most of the atrocities against aborigines occurred prior to 1901, technically they were carried out by the Poms… who later became Australian.

Meh.

Bertrand says:

08:27am | 24/01/12

I can definitely see why so many people have a problem with affirmative action policies. It does seem as though a less suitable or qualified person is gaining access to something that a more suitable/qualified person is not.

In the job market, in many cases this is probably an appropriate criticism - if two people are applying for a job that requires, say, a degree in engineering, obviously an Aboriginal person who applies for that job has overcome most of the issues surrounding indigenous poverty, as they have been able to attain a degree in engineering and therefore have some good social capital at their disposal. The job should go to the person most qualified.

For jobs requiring little or no qualifications, the arguments in favour of affirmative action are probably better. Research completed at the ANU has shown that people belonging to ethnic minorities who apply for jobs in low-skilled areas (waitressing for example) are discriminated against based on their race (whether this is conscious discrimination or not is up for debate). In effect, white people start with a competitive advantage. Affirmative action policies simply help counteract this advantage.

But, I don’t think this type of job discrimination (where a less qualified minority member gets hired over a more suitably qualified applicant) actually happens that much. I hear people complaining about it, but rarely see concrete examples of affirmative action employment practices.

Most affirmative action policies take place in other areas, such as access to education. These policies seem reasonable to me. Let’s move away from the contentious issue of race and consider affirmative action policies regarding people with disabilities.

When I graduated from high-school there was a girl in my class with severe physical disabilities. She was intelligent, but generally only received average marks, as her disability limited her ability to take effective research notes, to adequately complete all work or to attend school as much as she would like. She was offered entry into a university course for which she had not achieved the pre-requisite entry scores. Her placement offer was a recognition that in the absence of her disability she would have achieved the required entry requirements.

Having places or special scholarships reserved for indigenous kids from remote communities, for example, is simply another iteration of this policy that simply aims to counteract the competitive disadvantages that people experience for no other reason than being born into a disadvantaged group.

Hard-core critics of affirmative action fail to see that simply been born into one community or another means that some people automatically start out with a competitive advantage or disadvantage, and that affirmative action policies simply aim to counteract the disadvantages some people are born into. If you are competing against a person coming from a disadvantaged situation you automatically have a competitive advantage and so don’t need extra assistance to succeed.

Vince says:

08:36am | 24/01/12

Any thoughts on the people slaughtered by the Aboriginals or does that not matter?

acotrel says:

08:38am | 24/01/12

@ Fred
‘The white man had the best force at the time (and still do, I hope) and so we won. So therefore this country is OURS.’

I wonder if the Maoris in New Zealand should use the same rationale ?  The Germans had that attitude when they invade Poland, they found out they didn’t really own it at Nuremberg ! Ownership ‘by right of conquest’ has been removed from international law, and replaced by a poorly defined ‘territorial integrity’ concept.  The aborigines own Australia ! !
  Do you really want to find out the truth the hard way ?

Bev says:

08:42am | 24/01/12

TChong says:07:19am | 24/01/12

except for the deliberate attempt at genocide the Tassie Kooris were subject too
Windshuttle debunked that one well and truly.  Didn’t you get the memo?

TChong says:

08:57am | 24/01/12

Sorry Bev
not aligned to any political party, so no one forwards me memos.
The sysytem obviosly works well though- your LNP memo inspired postings make Abbotts home page redundant.

John the ZOmbie says:

09:37am | 24/01/12

Super D and that was one of the comments made by Dr Teo. He stated that racism was not just a white thing but was part of many cultural groups.

I remember been young and my mother been called a black devil by two chinese women in the markets

Bev says:

09:47am | 24/01/12

TChong says:08:57am | 24/01/12
Nothing to do with politics just a correction of the historical record.

Joe says:

09:49am | 24/01/12

@Fred,

Are even located in Australia?

Are you even white?

What your saying is very offensive.

jf says:

09:56am | 24/01/12

acotrel says:08:06am | 24/01/12

“We are working on it !”

A stupid, ignorant comment that trivialises the evils of real rascism not to mention smears the legacy of the victims of the holocaust.

“John Howard recognised that Pauline Hanson had a following”

Yeah, that’s why he tossed her out of the Liberal Party.

“that’s why we hate asylum seekers”

Vietnamese refugees and post WW2 European refugees would probably suggest that asylum seekers copped a hard time before Howard even came on the scene even if you don’t.

“Our problem is that most of us don’t travel overseas, and find out that the vast majority of people on this planet are different from us.”

If you had been overseas you would understand that not only is rascism a common, if undesirable human trait. You would also understand that Austalia is amongst the most tolerant countries in the world.

“In this respect the LNP is a disgrace for using the xenophobia card”

What of the ALP and the unions? After all, it is each of those institutions that have been resonsible for the most heinous, deliberate and pre-meditated race-based policies throughout Australia’s short history. It is the ALP, in particular, who have reacted to the terrible consequences of real rascism with tokenism and gestures.

Bertrand says:

09:56am | 24/01/12

@Bev said: “Windshuttle debunked that one well and truly.  Didn’t you get the memo?”

Windschuttle’s methodology has been shown to be seriously flawed. He started out with a position and either ignored or misinterpreted the evidence to justify it.

Whether or not what happened to the Aborigines was genocide is a matter for debate. Whether or not they were subjected to ongoing violent and deliberate atrocities at the hands of settlers is not.

Pickles... The Drummer says:

10:14am | 24/01/12

@Bev - Really, you’re using Keith Windshuttle as your resource on this?

onlooker says:

10:19am | 24/01/12

I am 6th generation Aussie, our history with Aboriginals has been far from perfect. I was very lucky, I was bought up without prejudiced and bought up the same way. His wife is half Chinese half white Australian. We both say the nice side is the Chinese side. She really is a lovely girl and we were lucky my son found her. People are just people with different customs and cultures. As for our Aboriginals , the more I read, the more I realize how special they are and how lucky we are to have them, but we need to treat them with more respect and definatly with more caring.

Rose says:

10:34am | 24/01/12

Bev, Windshuttle has debunked nothing. He has developed an opinion and has written according to that opinion. Every single thing he has written has been strongly and successfully challenged by many others, and the others do seem to have far more evidence, logic and academic rigour on their side than he does.
Any body holding Windshuttle up as a source of information is showing exactly how limited their understanding of the issues is.

TommyP says:

10:47am | 24/01/12

SuperD — You obviously don’t know about the Aborigines.  These are people who inhabited this land for 50,000yrs prior to the British.  In fact, the Australian Aborigines are the OLDEST ciilization in history.  And, the British deemed it necessary to wipe this civilisation out, cause they didn’t like to wear thick wollen coats, and pantyhose!    “No ethnic cleansing…”???????    I suggest you stop listening to Alan Jones, and pick up a book.

hawker says:

10:54am | 24/01/12

Bev,

When you’re done with Windshuttle, you should head over to Kentucky and check out the Creation Museum. Apparently they’ve “debunked” evolution.

Bev says:

10:56am | 24/01/12

Bertrand says:09:56am | 24/01/12
Nobody is disputing the fact that serious persecution did exist.  What Windshuttle did show is that fabrications and assumptions were made by other historians with what appears to be a particular agenda. They started with the idea that genocide had occured and made the “facts” suit their idea.

If I recall correctly those whose results he question were never able to refute much of what he wrote. Most of the attacks were mounted against him not his results.

Fred says:

11:08am | 24/01/12

@Acotrel

Are you serious? The only reason why Germany doesn’t own all of the Europe and then some is because of force. Not because of some namby pamby law. It doesn’t matter what the Maoris think, white men conquered them, and white men still own the place.

@Joe

Yes I am white and Australian. I don’t know why you’d ask that.

We can all get along, but not if PC goes much further. Thankfully most Australians, white or whatever race, are sensible about it all.

Rose says:

11:13am | 24/01/12

Vince, they were just fighting back, trying to defend themselves, their families and their culture. What did you expect, them to lay out the welcome mat while their people were being destroyed?

Rob M says:

11:15am | 24/01/12

I think the truth is that Australians generally aren’t racist, but the majority of us who aren’t don’t do enough to rein in the outrageous behaviour of the few who are.

Rose says:

11:27am | 24/01/12

Bev, the correction of historical record that is being done actually shows that things were far worse and were far more deliberately orchestrated than first recorded. Windshuttle is an academic lightweight, he only uses that which supports his view, he doesn’t include evidence which questions his opinions. There are few more biased ‘historians’ than him.
Attacks are not usually on him personally, but on his approach to his work and his inability to look objectively at the subject matter. He is only held in esteem by those who hold rigid conservative views and who are ignorant of the idea that (at least in the first instance) history is written by the victors, and that it isn’t necessarily written accurately or without prejudice. The huge majority of academics, historians and history/politics buffs recognize him to be an incredibly flawed writer.

Lauren says:

11:49am | 24/01/12

I had to LOL at your ‘not a single incident of ethnic cleansing’ comment. I see a lot of people have set you straight so don’t need to highlight that.

What I will highlight, however, is the notion that a white person is less likely to get a job due to a company meeting its diversity target. This may be so in big businesses in the city, but as someone who originally came from the country, it certainly isn’t the case everywhere.

I worked in an accounting firm where, when we had a job vacancy come up, the office manager would go through all the resumes and promptly disregard any who didn’t have ‘anglo white’ sounding names. Didn’t matter if they had the perfect experience for the job - she wouldn’t even LOOK at the rest of the resume, let alone get them in for an interview.

Thinking back on my work history in both the country & the city, the only jobs where there were ethnic diversity was in hospitality.

fernando garcia says:

11:50am | 24/01/12

i’m not an historian, but didn’t the english try to irradicate the aboriginales from most states? there are very few in TAS as a result, wouldn’t that be considered ethnic cleansing?

Zong says:

12:13pm | 24/01/12

@TChong - Worst race riot (7 dead) for Australia not with white between Japan and Indon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broome_Race_Riots_of_1920

Asia people not so concerned with white in Australia now.  Other people give more worry.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20110329-270629.html

PsychoHyena says:

12:47pm | 24/01/12

@Bev, perhaps you should come down to Tas and read the actual documentation that was produced by those involved in the atrocities across Tasmania. Perhaps you should also come down and read the legislation that was in place at the time.

Wrap it up any way you want Bev, Europeans have always been the most bloodthirsty, land-hungry and self-serving idiots the world has ever seen. I say this as an Australian with British, Irish, Spanish and Aboriginal heritage, who married a 2nd Gen Dutch/British Australian.

Wynston Cruso says:

12:47pm | 24/01/12

Convenient that people forget that the black fellas weren’t the first, and more than likely displaced / wiped out an entire race that preceded them. Ours was an invasion, hardly ethnic cleansing as the Australian aborigines still exist, unlike their predecessors whom they themselves ‘cleansed’.

n_dude says:

01:00pm | 24/01/12

What bout Tassie for “ethnic cleansing”? Or is that not part of Australia.

jf says:

01:15pm | 24/01/12

PsychoHyena says:12:47pm | 24/01/12

“Europeans have always been the most bloodthirsty, land-hungry and self-serving idiots the world has ever seen. I say this as an Australian with British, Irish, Spanish and Aboriginal heritage, who married a 2nd Gen Dutch/British Australian.”

What does your heritage have to do with anything?

As to your comments, I don’t think that they were more blood-thirsty, land-hungry, self-serving or idiotic than anyone else. Some European-based races were more successful in those particular endeavours than others, but if you are going to wrap all European-based races up as one race, I reckon that by the time you wrapped up other races by continent any one of those continents would give the Europeans a run for their money. In particular, the mongols could have given any continent a run on their own: in fact, Ghenghis Khan on his own would have.

So not only are your comments rascist, but also factually incorrect.

Adam says:

01:38pm | 24/01/12

I wouldn’t say that our history has been perfect. There are times where the English, later to become Australians, did kill Aboriginals. I wouldn’t call it a systematic ethnic cleansing and there’s a lot of debate around that sort of thing going on in our history. Though it shouldn’t be forgotten.

The idea, however, that other nations and ethnic groups hold a superior moral position over the others is what irks me. At least that’s what it feels like. We already know that there are certain people in the middle east who see white people as the evil people of the world, the Japanese are extremely racist when it comes to foreigners and this isn’t unique to them. One must understand that it is, more or less, only the western nations that seek to actively reach out and accept people of all races, cultures and languages.

Racism shouldn’t be tolerated. But I feel like the understanding of what it means to actually be racist is being less and less understood. To the point of where even talking about the Aboriginals as a people and culture has become racist by very mention and description of it. Having said that, is telling someone to go back home because of their different culture really racist? I don’t agree with that statement, and make no mistake there is a racist tone to those comments, but strictly, I don’t believe it is. I think there is a difference between those who, whichever colour, share the same common Australian culture and those who come here and, either on purpose or by coincidence, set up their own pseudo country . (To the point where some are asking for Sharia law.)

If we can’t clearly define racism then we cannot clearly argue or describe what is actually going on. For which I feel is sometimes a backlash against competing cultures pushing in on traditional Australian values and culture.

Something Else Going On says:

02:05pm | 24/01/12

@ PsychoHyena,

I struggle with the idea that a few thousand British settlers could have been the main contributor to the extinction of the Aboriginal people on such a large, well watered, well forested island with such rugged terrain as Tasmania in such a short space of time as a few decades (1803 to 1833).  This doesn’t seem plausible.  While I’m not denying that there was obviously serious conflict between the British settlers/invaders & the Tasmanian Aboriginal and that without this British settlement/invasion the aboriginals would still be in Tasmania, something else other than settler conflict must have been even more significant.  Disease may very well be this more significant factor.

Pablo says:

02:19pm | 24/01/12

Even 1st year psych students learn that racism is part of being human and in our genes.  Our brains automatically categorise people and attribute traits to people based on that categorisation. We favour the group we believe we belong to automatically without even realising we are doing it.  The issue is if we then discriminate against particular groups and it becomes systemic.  ITs so easy, and politcally correct, to stand if front of the press and suggest we need to ensure racism doesnt occur. IF you stand in front of the press in ANY country and say “we have problems with racism in this country” you would be right.  To suggest Australia is a country wth worse racsim than others would only be said by someone who hasnt travelled very much.

Mr Jones the cat says:

03:08pm | 24/01/12

@TChong, so white Australians today should be held accountable for the actions of others over a century ago? I acknowledge that it was horrible what happened to aborigines and other ethnicities in Australia’s past—but me being white does not make me in any way responsible for what happened. To imply I am simply because of my nationality and skin colour is inherently racist itself. So please, give that strawman argument a rest. Until EVERYONE acknowledges EVERY culture has its fair share of racism and prejudice, the racism debate in Australia will never get anywhere. Right now, there’s hypocrisy and ignorance from all sides.

Sam says:

03:08pm | 24/01/12

T. Chong,

Kooris were from NSW area not Tasmania.

The Calico Kid says:

03:46pm | 24/01/12

Look at all the racists, yes you, you know who I’m talking about.  Each and everyone of you throwing the racist slur at each other, because their ‘opinion’ isn’t the same as your ‘opinion’.  Damn I love a good mass debate over absolutely nothing, it’s like looking at a written wank.  You’re all the same colour to me….........grey.  Keep up the good fight and work, Gladiators.

I, Claudia says:

03:58pm | 24/01/12

“There isn’t a single incident of ethnic cleansing in our history.”

You’re not serious.

Liam says:

04:06pm | 24/01/12

“There isn’t a single incident of ethnic cleansing in our history” - firsty LOL, you really are a ‘Super D’. And secondly, is that comment just a really depressing reflection of the history taught in our schools?

Wynston Cruso says:

04:27pm | 24/01/12

“There isn’t a single incident of ethnic cleansing in our history”

Name a single race of people who have been completely ethnically cleansed by Europeans in Australia. Those who are disagreeing with Super D are right, there has been ethnic cleansing in the past, however it has not been conducted by Europeans.

John lawrence Ward says:

05:00pm | 24/01/12

In 1956 during the shearers strike i was cutting down Bathurst Burrs in the back country west of Walgett.
I came across an area of the size of three tennis courts, full of crushed bones to my horror it became obvious there were Human skulls smashed in the remains.
Apparently it was practice in the early squatter days, to feed flour and tobacco to the local blacks who were considered to be a nuisance, then later have a gathering where the flour and meat were laced with poison.
So super D , you a wrong about ethnic cleansing unless you too think our black citizens are just another pest diversity species.

tasha says:

06:09pm | 24/01/12

Never heard of Tasmania and what happened to its Aboriginal population Super D?

Sandra Blackmore says:

06:37am | 25/01/12

YES! White teachers miss out even if they have been working in the position, are highly qualified and have been doing every single extra-curricula student development possible.
Nurses miss out, if the Nursing Unit Manager is from another country - try counting the nurses from this country in her unit - lucky to find one.
Visit a retail outlet owned by a newer Australian - look for an ordinary white Racist Aussie kid working behind the counter.
The rules are different for some Australians.
The part that bugged me about Teo’s rant, was that he dared to compare Australia with the USA - the most insular, racist white country on earth. Clearly when living/studying there he wanted to stay there - his wife insisted he come back to Australia. Clearly, he was living in an insular, academic, artificial environment. His kids weren’t going to school or beaches and he is deluding himself by thinking he has experienced the real world.

empty says:

09:30am | 25/01/12

Oh the replies to this are just too funny.

Joe says:

10:50am | 25/01/12

@ John lawrence Ward

This was not “practice”.  There may have been isolated cases of what you state but it definitely wasn’t “practice”.

What was practice in the well watered Southern and Central Eastern Coastal parts of the land (i.e the best land in Australia where the colonists were) was to take the best land for farming which had the effect of removing the best hunting grounds.  The people carrying capacity of such a dry country as Australia for a Hunter Gatherer existence wasn’t very high to begin with and when you combined this denial of the best hunting grounds with the overwhelmingly deleterious effects on the indigenous populations living in close proximity to settlers/ invaders (depending on your point of view) of the diseases carried by the settlers/invaders you had the result in the Southern parts which is now history.

Outright cases of murder like you quote, while they did occur and have been documented, were the exception and were not the norm.

History is being re-written by the “black armband brigade” to serve a purpose.  I guess to them the end justifies the means.

Bloggs says:

02:01pm | 25/01/12

Few writers in response to this have any damned idea about what they are saying.  Racism?  What a joke.  If you wish to see racism you need to travel.  Singapore: where different laws exist for different races.  Malaysia where different laws exist for different religions and where the law is exacted differently for varying races.  Saudi Arabia where poor people are drafted in form Bangladesh and Pakistan and the Philippines and treated very badly at the hands of the superior Arabs; paid so much less, housed in disgusting conditions often without clean water and few clothes.. The UAE where anyone arriving without proper papers are branded ‘infiltrators’, and locked up pending trials (no nice reception in a detention camp with free medical and telephones).  I’ve travelled to these places and many more.

In Australia we have laws and ways that whilst not perfect, work so much better.  The average bogan Aussie came from somewhere else and doesn’t mind too much other people.  People here may be a little fearful of what they do not know, but as the Italian and Greek (and other) migrants came out in the 50’s and 60’s (me too in this list!)  and eventually fitted in and learned to be Aussie, changing Aussie as they went…. so the ones we have arriving today will eventually fit in, be accepted, and becomes Aussies, changing Aussie a bit as they do it.

You need to stop whining and smell the roses.  Look at where things are worse (there’s plenty of examples) and make sure we do not do that.  We need to encourage all people to be Aussie in their own way.  We need to be patriotic and help newcomers feel at home and learn to be patriotic.  Patriotism does not equal racism!  Patriotism equals Australianism.

And clear racists who write on hear putting down ordinary Aussies (you know who you are, acotrel, TChong, and others).  You are part of the real problem because you are on these pages forever putting down Australia and Aussies instead of being a part of the solution. 

I’m a white ex-European immigrant, with a Chinese Doctor, a Chinese Dentist, a Greek specialist, an English specialist, a Portuguese fishing buddy,  Vietnamese and Chinese neighbours (nice guys) and Iranian house painter.  And we all get along fine.  Some of these guys are here in Oz because they get looked after here and want to return to their homelands when the situation allows them to. And whilst here they have a job, pay their taxes, do not whine like you lot, and appear as thankful as I am that we live in such a great place where racism is pretty minor compared to what they endured at home.

Get out there and look at the world; Aussie is a pretty nice place, all found!

Stop whining, smell the roses, and work towards fixing the few small issues we have.

Dragon says:

03:44pm | 25/01/12

You should research the actual history of the original inhabitants of Tasmania before Euro settlement before you go making bold statements champ. You’ll find the Tasmanian aboriginal population was completely wiped out by the early boat people…

AdamC says:

09:25am | 24/01/12

Dr Teo was unfairly criticised for his comments. He actually picked up on many of the issues his critics accused him of ignoring.

Having said that, the connected issues of confected racism and enforced multiculturalist orthodoxy is becoming more open to challenge in Australia. (I suspect that the internet is partially responsible for this.) Critics of multiculturalism and the use of the ‘race card’ to support it do not argue that racism does not exist in Australia, but that it is vastly, and often deliberately, overstated to stifle debate on important topics like immigration, asylum policy and indigenous policy. A recent examople of this is the use of accusations of racism to support proposed changes to our consititution to entrench a privileged status for indigenous people.

Peter says:

11:35am | 24/01/12

@AdamC - that seems to me a convenient theory that has caught on lately.  To me it sounds like an excuse, papering over deeper issues about race, cultural intolerance and fear of others.  Why would anyone have such a big problem with issues like immigration, asylum policy and indigenous policy for any other reason?  What exactly is the problem?  Perhaps you can explain.

Dazman467 says:

11:43am | 24/01/12

@ Adam C and Tim,  agree with your comments and nice to see that you have identified the high points of Dr Teo’s speech. Where he clearly acknowledges that racism and unacceptable attitudes exist in ‘migrant’ or ethnic groups, it is a step forward, rather than the tired old rhetoric that only whites are racist. Sadly, even the ABC seemed unable to show some of this context if what I saw on their news channel this morning was reflective of wider reporting - I heard all about the incident with his daughter and his Indian colleague but don’t recall seeing/hearing his comments on the sometimes poor behaviour of migrant groups. I know racism exists in this country. I see examples of it every day from a variety of different cultural groups. I have been a vicitim of it - threats of violence etc from migrant/ethnic elements etc, or minority (sorry, but not sure how else to say it) groups who seek to use their status to justify assaults on others, then use the threat of alleged racism to prevent action by the victim or witnesses - eg: seeing a group assault a guy in broad daylight in the middle of Brunswick St in Brisbane, coming to his aid (quite lawfully) and then being threatened with legal action for my alleged ‘Racist Attack’ on them (apparently 3 of them holding a guy against a wall, demanding his wallet etc was perfectly acceptable - go figure).

I have also travelled widely enough through Asia, Africa, the Middle East and parts of Europe to know that racism and religious bigotry exists in many countries and it is not just practised by ‘White Fellas’ (see bombings in Baghdad recently, the horrors of Kibeyo or Somalia/Sudan etc). I’m also pretty sure that investigation into the much publicised ‘Race Attacks’ on Indian students in Sydney and areas of Melbourne indicate that the assaults were carried out by yet another migrant/minority group, rather than ‘White’ Australians, yet the Indian media were more than happy to run the ‘Racist’ tag once again in their reporting.

Though the changes are coming, as Adam alludes to, and the ‘confected racism’ often used to close down discussion or debate (through the use of the ‘Race Card’) is being challenged, it is a slow process to change 30 or 40 years worth of policy and dogma. Worse is the manner in which so many still seek to impose late 20th/early 21st century values on events that occurred in the 1700s or 1800s, where values were very very different. The benefit of 20/20 hindsight cannot change the events of the past, and fail to acknowledge that some incidents, such as ‘The Stolen Generation’  (let’s not forget, a phenomenon not confined solely to Aboriginals) were carried out with good intentions (ie: provide a better life etc), but poorly implemented, through insufficient government oversight and the poor behaviour of some institutions.  An acknowledgement of mistakes is fine and learning a modern day lesson from historical failure is a good thing; but to continue to condemn a society in the current age for ‘mistakes’ made 200 years ago, in a different era, with different values and morals, is divisive and, in itself, biased and - essentially - racist. So is labelling an entire nation because some question the self serving push by a few to progress their own agendas. Hopefully some of the more vocal critics of Dr Teo will take some time to check out what he REALLY said. Hopefully also some of the move vocal advocates of the ‘Aussies are all Racist’ position will also take a look at Dr Teo’s comments regarding migrants and their need to be respectful of the nation and culture into which they are settling. Sadly, though only a minority in both camps, their rhetoric will likely continue to disrupt our society for years to come.

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:59pm | 24/01/12

@Dazman467

Great post!

sheridan says:

08:48pm | 24/01/12

Dazman467 I agree with you hands down.. I’ve been spat at and called a white c@nt and been labelled racist because I referred to some statistics on indigenous health in a nursing class.. I also did American history last year and if people really want to check out what race driven prejudice and cruelty mean they might want to read up THERE!!

sheridan says:

08:48pm | 24/01/12

Dazman467 I agree with you hands down.. I’ve been spat at and called a white c@nt and been labelled racist because I referred to some statistics on indigenous health in a nursing class.. I also did American history last year and if people really want to check out what race driven prejudice and cruelty mean they might want to read up THERE!!

dazman467 says:

11:05am | 25/01/12

@Simon and Sheridan, thanks for the comments. I would just seek to reiterate my point regarding the existence of racism in Australia. Yes, elements of minority/migrant groups display the behaviour, but so do elements of the white community. ‘Rednecks’ are not always white, but they are not always Asian, African, Indigenous or Arab either. That is the reality that I am hoping many will realise, and on which Charlie Teo quite clearly commented. I had always had great respect for him based on his work alone, but his honest, open speech addressing a real issue with realistic views has seen my respect for him grow. Cheers

Reg says:

08:26am | 24/01/12

The Romans were pretty damned racist…

Hans Gruber says:

08:42am | 24/01/12

And when Alexander saw the breadth of his domain, he wept, for there were no more worlds to conquer.

Warren says:

08:45am | 24/01/12

“The Romans were pretty damned racist…”

No they wern’t. They recognised cultural differences between groups of people, and were happy to conquer/enslave them from time to time, but the concept of race didn’t exist then.

acotrel says:

09:13am | 24/01/12

@Reg
Where did you get this stuff about the Romans being racist ?  History doesn’t read that way.  They had a habit of recruiting the conquered into their army then moving on, and internally it was almost a meritocracy.

Pickles... The Drummer says:

10:20am | 24/01/12

Now the Assyrians, they were Racist!!!

Pablo says:

02:09pm | 24/01/12

I dont know where you guys are reading your history, but ancient romans were very racist. The had specific names for each group of people of each country, even for different groups in their own country. They actually atributed different traits to different groups of people.  It more a case of CULTURE for the romans but this is really semantics. They assumed romans and their culture was superior and all others should be dominated.

Nilbog says:

08:27am | 24/01/12

Probably been more bowel cleansing throughout history though…

acotrel says:

09:17am | 24/01/12

@James
‘A rose is a rose’ ! Would you rather argue against ‘xenophobic rednecked idiot’ ?

Peter says:

12:06pm | 24/01/12

James, you are correct to a point.  But ideas such as “racism” help us communicate what we are trying to say (if used correctly) without having to start from square one everytime.  That is the power of language.  And the idea of “racism” has only been with us for a hundred or so years, so there are not so many words out there that come close to expressing what we mean when someone hates another person simply because of their ethnic heritage.  Nobody likes to be called “racist” i agree, but equally so, people need to stop freaking out when someone points out that what they said, or have written, is racist in character.  They may disagree, but certainly such labels exist because we have developed an understanding of these things, not because they are always inappropriate and shouldn’t be used.

James Ricketson says:

02:05pm | 24/01/12

Acotrel, my point is (and this is based on many a dialogue/debate over a few decades) that calling someone a ‘racist’ (quite different to referring to ‘racism’) brings the conversation to a standstill. Likewise if you are called an ‘anti-semite’ for questioning anything in relation to Israel policy vis a vis the Palestinians. Many a word ending with -ist is limited in the same way. Peter, I have no problem at all with the word ‘racism’ It is, as you say, very useful in discussing an approach, an attitude. It’s the word ‘racist’ that I think needs to be used sparingly so that it retains impact and does not seem to refer to every Tom, Dick and Harriet who has some small axe to grind about this ethnic group or that.

Suzanne says:

08:09am | 24/01/12

Australians are a race now?

marley says:

08:20am | 24/01/12

Perhaps you should read Dr. Teo’s viewpoints on new migrants again.

Michael says:

08:30am | 24/01/12

is that your only contibution to the conversation suzanne?

Mr T's gold chains says:

08:33am | 24/01/12

Depends on your definition of race.

At its smallest, there are only 4 races: Caucasian, Asian, Hispanic, and African.

However, by that definition, derogatory comments etc against Chinese, Lebanese etc aren’t technically racist.

Po-ta-toe, Pot-at-oe.

milo of Brizvegas says:

08:38am | 24/01/12

I do not think it has anything to do with the old P.C.  red herring it is simply some people think it is O.K. to make a generalization, always negative and based on what? one negative experience or urban myth, then assign it to everyone of that particular race or culture; it is highly offensive. My father would speak of people with a similar Teresa Gambaro mindset slurring Italian immigrants as always stinking of garlic.  I myself used to become defensive when females I worked with overseas (after they became friends) would ask if the image generally portrayed of Australian males as drunken, vomiting, bigots and misogynists was accurate. Now I would say it is like when the media covers a demonstration, they pick the loudest, most bizarre or illiterate Wacko and portray them as representative of the entire group.

marley says:

09:04am | 24/01/12

@Mr. T - no, at it’s smallest, there is only one race, the human race.  It would be a lot easier if more people would remember that.

Sad Sad Reality says:

10:19am | 24/01/12

Michael, bigoted chalkies have no rights.

Bertrand says:

10:25am | 24/01/12

@Marley - “there is only one race, the human race”

A good point to remember - at the end of the day there is more that makes us similar than makes us different.

I read somewhere last week that there is less genetic diversity amongst the entire human race than can be found between two randomly selected troops of chimps.

Warren says:

11:28am | 24/01/12

Furthermore, the genetic diversity within a “race” is greater than the difference between “races”.

Mr T's gold chains says:

12:36pm | 24/01/12

Please refer to me by my full name next time.

It is, after all, only polite (and the chains feel neglected).

St. Michael says:

12:44pm | 24/01/12

@ Mr. T’s gold chains: and we all realise that if the gold chains feel neglected, we’re all acting like a crazy foo’, and we’re gonna meet their friend PAIN!

Michael says:

01:56pm | 24/01/12

Milo, generalisations are not always negative. For example, “Asians are good at studying.” Or even the one you mentioned “Australians are good at drinking beer.”

However I am sure that you choose to view these generalisations in a negative light, regardless of the intent or the truth behind the statements.

“I myself” do not become defensive when people speak of stereotypical Australians. Every race (oops, culture) has its stereotype. I embrace it and have a bit of fun while doing so (an Australian trait?).

My advice, don’t take yourself so seriously. The world is not out to get you. People can have an opinion on anything and everything, it is not up to you to decide who’s opinion is right or wrong. Discussion is the name of the game, not attacks.

Mr T's gold chains says:

06:59pm | 24/01/12

@ St Michael

I can’t tell whether you’re talking jibber, or jabber… but I like it.

marley says:

07:28pm | 24/01/12

Mr. Chains sir - please accept the abject apologies of a person too low in life to even touch the hem of your garment, never mind the gold on your most illustrious personage.  I was misled by the egalitarian atmosphere of Australia into thinking that such as I might address your honour on a familiar basis.  I promise, oh noble one, that it shall not happen again.  Henceforth, I shall address you by your full name or by that other honorific, “hey you.”

James1 says:

08:13am | 24/01/12

Dr Teo explicitly addressed that in his speech.  You should check it out in full: its quite interesting.  His actual words bear little comparison to the way it has been presented in the media, which is most likely why people have attacked him for his comments.  After reading it, I concluded the only way you could take issue with what he said is if you didn’t actually know what he said.

Penbo does a good job here, though.

HTFU says:

09:24am | 24/01/12

Racism is present in every nationality and culture on this planet, its a natural human response and condition.

Cry in my Gin says:

10:28am | 24/01/12

On James1 advice, I located and read a transcript of Carlie Teo’s speech. I strongly urge others to do the same. If this guy was any more Aussie he would have the harbour bridge tattoed on his forehead. He has a great sense of humour and takes the piss out of himself in that self effacing Aussie manner we all take for granted.
As for racism, he writes “Unfortunately, racism still exists in Australian culture today. But if you think it’s bad, you would’ve cringed if you had heard some of the things my mum said about you “white devils”. “
It would be good if the punch team supplied a link to the transcript of this speech. It would have people of all races lining up to shout this man a beer. Its a fair dinkum good read.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:49am | 24/01/12

@Cry in my gin.

I linked a story here last week when it hit the news with all the sensationalism swirling around it.

As discussed there he makes very good, reasoned points.

Kingscliff says:

09:15am | 24/01/12

Jay

He hit me so I’m justified in hitting him back.    Great simple logic.

Debs says:

09:36am | 24/01/12

Well said, Jay.

Chewy says:

10:02am | 24/01/12

Jay you also forgot to mention the Cape Grim massacre!  I am having trouble joinging the dots mate. WTF has WW2 or Tibetans got to do with racism in Australia in 2012?
You are right that racism cuts both ways its just your examples are a stretch to relate to the article.

Joe says:

10:33am | 24/01/12

Europeans are the amongst the most tolerant of all people.  Its written in our genes.  What other group has accepted people of different hair colours and different eye colours. 

However in the past, having people of different Skin colour was not as easy as in the Northern Climates, dark skin typically cannot produce enough vitamin D naturally for the optimal health of a person.  Just as white people could not survive well in the equatorial locations because of sun damage to the skin.  But eye colour and hair colour are not affected by this and it is fairly obvious that with other groups, anybody who developed or had a different eye colour or skin colour would have been ostracized or otherwise eliminated from the group.  In other racial groups unless you had black hair and brown eyes you didn’t survive.

Look at the ex leader of Brazil, a major crisis and he is already at it:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/financial-crisis-caused-by-white-men-with-blue-eyes-1655354.html

I would argue that this tolerance of difference was the main reason the European societies were able to rise to such prominence to be able to colonize so much of the world.

And while not perfect, I believe Europeans are still amongst the people of the earth who are most tolerant and accepting of difference.

Austin 3:16 says:

10:53am | 24/01/12

Kingscliff,

AND because I was justified in hitting him, that makes me non-violent

Osiris Fox says:

11:31am | 24/01/12

Joe - Excellent comment. Some disagreement, but most lyagreement.

We are the most accepting and tolerant, thus, we are also the easy target to have a go at.

Gary says:

09:25am | 24/01/12

It’s not racism to deplore despicable behaviour, especially when that behaviour is not limited to a certain race.

Pickles... The Drummer says:

10:45am | 24/01/12

@Gary - On the note of deploring descpicable behaviour, the people who spat on an Indian surgeon in the street, in fact anyone who spits on someone in the street, should just be removed from society.

Or as a better punishment, sent to live in the country of the person who they obviously despise, and then locked up there.

Man people are douche bags sometimes. regardless of racism, who spits on people?

fml says:

11:42am | 24/01/12

So people argue that not all australians are racist, which is true, its only a small minority. They argue that it is unfair to generalise all australian’s because of this minority, and some have genuine issues.

So, with comments like this, with the same generalisation but in reverse. Where are the detractors? Or, are his concerns valid also?

BTW, where the hell do you immigrants get off telling other immigrants to go back to where you came from? How would you feel if someone who has never met your wife told her to go back where she came from? spouting some rubbish generalisations about asians?

St. Michael says:

12:14pm | 24/01/12

@ Alan: you’re not racist.  You’re xenophobic.  You seem to be equal opportunity on despising anyone who “comes to this country” irrespective of the colour of their skin, so the pigeonhole for your prejudice is xenophobia, not racism.

Warren says:

09:31am | 24/01/12

“we have little or no say”

There have been many Federal elections in Australia since immigration was introduced as Government policy. Citizens have had numerous opportunities to discuss and vote for immigration, and in general it has been supported across both main parties.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

09:26am | 24/01/12

+1
 
I’m sick and tired of people ignoring facts in this debate or, worse, making excuses for them. The crime rate among Somalians is totally out of poportion to their population here but as soon as you remind people that the LAW says they can be returned to their own country if they commit offences that have a term of at least 18 months incarceration and that’s what should happen - you are labeled racist and told that WE should be more understanding of THEIR murderous culture in OUR country.

John the Zombie says:

09:52am | 24/01/12

Erick maybe you should read his article. Unlike a large portion of ppl who talk about racism and blame it all on white people Dr Teo is one of the only people to address that racism is not a white thing. It exsists in every race in Australia be it Chinese, Indian etc etc. It is funny how if a white person has an issue with let say a muslim then thats racist but yet if a person of Indian background does no one bats an eye lid and yes ppl a large portions of Indians look at muslims with a negative view. If you dont believe me just ask a hindu or sikh Indian if they would allow thier kids to marry a muslim and you will be stunned by the silence.

Erick says:

10:40am | 24/01/12

@Jon the Zombie - That’s part of my point. Maybe I should have read Dr Teo’s article, but after a lifetime of being told I’m a racist, I just turn off when I see “Australians” and “racist” in the title.

I’m not about to start reading those things again on the one-in-a-hundred chance that the next one might not be another Aussie-bashing.

The one exception, of course, is if the article is on a site like The Punch, where I can actually reply to it. If not for the chance to comment,I wouldn’t read such things at all.

Richard A says:

06:55pm | 24/01/12

Pride in one’s own ignorance - what a surprise.

Jay says:

10:58am | 24/01/12

You nailed it!

SimonFromLakemba says:

11:10am | 24/01/12

They have had wars defending themselves and their country, most people would have issues in that sense.

Jem says:

11:26am | 24/01/12

That other countries are aslo racist doesn’t alter the fact there is an undercurrent of racism in Australia.

When people hassle a child who was born here and tell her to go back to where she came from because she isn’t white, that is a racist action.  Saying it would happen in other countries doesn’t make it ok, it doesn’t change it into a non racist action.  That other ppl do it as well doesn’t validate the behaviour as appropriate or non racist. 

It’s a childish excuse for poor behaviour - “well he did it too”.  All that means is the pair of them are out of line.

Osiris Fox says:

11:40am | 24/01/12

SimonFromLakemba - Your comment make zero sense.

fml says:

11:45am | 24/01/12

What has what happens in other countries have to do with the Australian Identity?

I hate pies says:

12:03pm | 24/01/12

Simon, what about our men who still hate the Japanese because of the way they were treated as PoW’s? Or is that different?
Am I allowed to hate Iraqis and Afghanis because we have been to war against them? Or is that different?

James1 says:

12:21pm | 24/01/12

I thought we went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq to help them, not because they did anything to us.  It would be very odd indeed to invade a country to help them overcome tyranny, and then turn around and hate them because you invaded them to help them overcome tyranny.

What Japan did in China and Korea is a whole different kettle of fish.

SimonFromLakemba says:

12:56pm | 24/01/12

Seems the right wingers are lost again.

Chinese, Vietnamese and Japanese all have history of fighting each other or trying to invade lands.

We haven’t had to stop it, apart from Darwin.

@I hate pies

We invaded them, they didn’t invade us, completely different.

marley: says:

01:16pm | 24/01/12

@Simon - if you’re trying to say that the Chinese and Koreans are justified in hating the Japanese because of the Japanese occupations of their lands in the last century, perhaps you’re right.  But it doesn’t justify the Japanese attitude towards the Chinese or the Koreans, does it?  I don’t recall any recent attempts by either to occupy Japan.  Sorry, but so far as I can see, racism is very much at play in relations between these countries.

There’s no more justification for a Japanese citizen looking down on Koreans than there is for a German sneering at Russians.  It’s all part of the same ugly package.

I hate pies says:

02:59pm | 24/01/12

Simon, when did we invade Japan? Our diggers are rightfully angry at the way they were treated. By the way, I hate Italians because of the way my forefathers in England were treated.
Our diggers are defending our country in Iraq and Afghanistan - against the evil terrorists.
Face it, your stance is hypocritical and racist against caucasians.

SimonFromLakemba says:

03:18pm | 24/01/12

@I hate pies

You have misread what I have written. In was in regards to your comment about the Iraqis etc. We invaded them , they didn’t invade us. You just seem to be going off on your own tangent.

@Marley

What I was saying. Past indiscretions obviously influence the way they think. If you have had to defend your country and race against an occupier and invader generally you aren’t going to look at them in a good light.

marley says:

03:52pm | 24/01/12

@Simon - maybe I’m not understanding you properly, but you seem to be saying its okay to be racist if you’ve had to fight off that race at some point in the past.  If that is what you intend, then frankly, I think it’s wrong headed in the extreme.

That would mean that it would be okay for me to hate modern-day Japanese because a relative of mine spent five god-awful years in in Japanese POW camp.  Well, no, that wouldn’t be right:  I’d be judging all Japanese by the misdeeds of a group of Japanese 70 years ago.  And in my book, that would make me a racist.

The same goes for every ethnic, tribal and national rivalry:  if we keep justifying antagonism to other groups because of past wrongs, real or imagined, we will never eliminate racism. We need to get past that, and stop making excuses for it.  We need to stop seeing people only as representative of some stereotypical group, and start seeing and judging them as the individuals they are.

Yes, it might be understandable that one group hates another for past wrongs - but it’s racism all the same.

SimonFromLakemba says:

04:30pm | 24/01/12

@Marely

You seem to be agreeing with me. All I said its potentially why they are racist against each other because of past grievances. I think you should know from my posts on here that I am anti racism of all forms from all backgrounds.

marley says:

07:36pm | 24/01/12

@Simon - well, yes, I’d have pegged you as an anti-racist, so that’s why I was trying to understand what you said. If you can truly say you’re applying the same yardstick to all races, fine, but what you wrote suggested to me that you were giving a “get out of jail free” card to some.  Sorry if I misunderstood.

St. Michael says:

12:47pm | 24/01/12

Read the actual speech.
Dr Teo doesn’t find racism prolific.  He finds it much reduced.
Teal deer syndrome?

Northern Rivers says:

09:11am | 24/01/12

Tell It Like It Is -
From personal experience I’ve had similar experiences and so has my family.

Whilst it is from a small ignorant minority it shouldn’t be brushed aside but looked at objectively and recognizing that this is an area that needs some attention.      A healhy and mature discussion does not hurt.

It lacks logic to compare Australia with other countries in trying to jujstify such attitudes.    Look at the problem at home and work towards correcting it.    I do recognise that it is a difficult task but one that should not be brushed aside.

We are not privy to the conversation that took place between Dr Teo and his daughter so let’s not draw on assumptions.

Tell It Like It Is says:

12:07pm | 24/01/12

No @Northern Rivers we are not privy to the conversation between Dr Teo and his daughter but he brought it up as an example and as such and as it is reported it is a weak example.

marley says:

01:45pm | 24/01/12

@Tell it like it is - sorry, but I can’t agree. Drunks say and do all sorts of things when in their cups because they lose their inhibitions.  But, if they’re not racists, it won’t occur to them to make a racist comment;  if they are, it will.  It’s not a weak example, it’s an example.

Stoneage liberal says:

10:59am | 24/01/12

Couple of quick points, the excuse that others do it so it is ok is just lame. For example rape is incredibly common in western africa, does this make it OK for us? We should be trying to be the best we can be without consideration for how others behave, it is vcalled being the bigger man, Didnt your mum teach you anything. Secondly critising someone for being lazy is not racist. Saying they are lazy because of there race is. If I say ole Wayne Tsu (imaginary friend of mine) is lazy that is fine. If I say migrants are lazy that is racist. Racism is stereotyping or changing your behaiviour as a result of someones appearance.

jane says:

04:25pm | 24/01/12

the same thing that happened to Dr Teo’s daughter happens to my two girls and her friends on a regular basis.They are sworn at called “white c—-  pushed and spat on.My children will no longer catch the school bus home because they are scared of the racial abuse they are subject to most days. The difference here is my children are born here 7th generation Australian and are white (can I say that here?) The group attacking them are Sudanese. All the kids got on well in primary school but in High school it is totally different. I tried to calm my kids down by saying they need to cut these kids a bit of slack because they had such a hard life before they came here. Imagine my surprise when I found out they were born here. I am sick of being told I am racist and so are my kids.

Richard A says:

06:59pm | 24/01/12

Jane, I have to say I think you are lying. 

Also, no one is saying you are racist.  Unless you do things which someone would say only a racist person would do.  In which case you may be racist.  But I don’t know.  And I am not calling you racist.

Fiona says:

09:33pm | 24/01/12

Richard A, why do you think Jane is lying? In the 80s my friends and I (all white 8th gen Australians) used to get spat at and called “skippy sluts” but the Greek/Italian boys in the neighbourhood as teens. This sort of thing happens. You just don’t hear about it often.

Brendan says:

08:55am | 24/01/12

The trouble with getting a new flag is that everyone can think of a flag they would like better than the current one, but you can’t get everyone to can agree on a single choice.

That said, I always liked the flag of Canada.  Bold, easy to recognise and a year four student can draw it.

Shredder says:

09:13am | 24/01/12

Spot on eddie. The flag is beyond an embarrassment and we should have become a republic years ago.

Nothing more stupid than the white trash that go on about being “true blue” and “Aussie” whilst advertising the British and a star constellation that is visible virtually all over the southern hemisphere.

The kicker is when I have this conversation with these morons and their only response is to call me “un-Australian”.

marley says:

09:35am | 24/01/12

So, do what the Canadians did - appoint a Parliamentary Flag Committee (no, I’m not kidding) to look at designs, select one, and have Parliament vote on it.  Just make a decision and be done with it.  And no, you don’t have to wait until we’re a Republic.  The Canadians obviously didn’t.

Andrew says:

09:42pm | 24/01/12

maybe the problem shredder is that you think there morons. Wether you like it or not australia was settle by the english, whats so wrong with having a flag that reflects that.

jf says:

09:05am | 24/01/12

I get your point, but I don’t think that Penbo or Dr Teo were suggesting that Australia is the most rascist country in the world.

In fact, what I got from their comments, was that whilst Australia is a very tolerant country, rascism still exists.

Whilst humans are human, they will have human frailties. One of which is the fear of what is different. Whilst people are human they will always fear what is different and thus there will always be rascism. Rascism will always be with us - doesn’t mean we should put up with it or try to address people’s fears and prejudices.

However, your point is also an important one and illustrates that the word rascism and the discussion of rascism has been trivialised by the PC brigade.

Bev says:

09:43am | 24/01/12

Hundreds of deaths?
http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.aspx

Over the past 18 years (1 July 1989 to 30 June 2007),
the rate* of homicide incidents decreased from 1.9 in
1990-91 and 1992-93 to the second-lowest recorded rate,
of 1.3, in 2006-07. *rate per 100,000 population.

The 253 murder and 29 manslaughter victims recorded in
2007 were the lowest annual number yet recorded

That is the combined total of all murders however more males
were murdered than females (63% were male).

As to your other claims some stats please and a just who do do you think is responsible?  Hint it is not those of anglo saxon decent.

Borderer says:

10:03am | 24/01/12

Oddly you seem on the money Caroline. Comparitively speaking we are very good in modern times, despite the hand wringing by the bleeding hearts. You want to find out about real racists, go to the balkens.
What we have here is the d!ckhead factor, these people would be rude and obnoxious even if there were no obvious racial things to make fun of. “Hey big nose!!” for example. These creatures have not evolved since primary school. They want to differentiate themselves from other people without putting in any effort so they choose race or physical appearance rather than as Dr Teo who used hard work. It’s a shame people can’t move past the race issue and see that these morons are projecting their own feelings of inadequacy on others.

jf says:

10:05am | 24/01/12

Bev says:09:43am | 24/01/12

I think Caroline was being faecitious.

Cynicised says:

10:30am | 24/01/12

Bev, I suggest you look up the word “sarcasm” in the dictionary, as I believe Caroline was using.  Her point, to me, was that we may have some rednecked yobbos here, but we do not routinely murder our fellow countrymen/women for associating with another race or ethnicity. It’s true that many other countries are far more racist, and blatantly so, than we are. However, just because other countries are worse that does not mean we do no not have people in this country who despise others simply because of their colour or ethnicity - and some of them are white. We most certainly do, and what Dr Teo says is correct, perhaps we need to look at that, in a country as dependent on immigration as we are. Self - examination is a good thing, especially as Penbo points out, on a day when we are meant to be celebrating what it is to be Australian. Self- examination though does not imply we have to flagellate ourselves, just take a look under the rock.

Bev says:

11:06am | 24/01/12

If wrote this comment as sarcasm I did not take it that way, sorry. That said there is nothing wrong with presenting facts whether comment was sarcastic or not as many (myself included) probably did not see it that way.

Mark says:

11:25am | 24/01/12

Bev - I think Carolines comment was satirical, with the undertone being that the worst / most harmful cases of actual racism in Australia are probably not committed by the white anglo community.

I think Dr Teo is probably pretty on the money, however as a white anglo member of the community I have had similar experiences with my girlfriend being spat on and labelled a pig at the beach by a group of midlle eastern men, and a very close female friend being bashed by a group of similar men.

I just find it a shame that Dr Teo is applauded (deservedly) for his comments, and yet lesser ‘educated’ anglo’s are labelled bogan racists for expressing very similar views. Minorities are always considered (deservedly) as victims in these types of scenarios, but when white anglo’s experience similar attrocities there is always a hint of sympathy for the perpertrator.

As Caroline has correctly points out, racism amoungst non-anglo communities is equal if not more present than amoungst anglo’s, however they do not seem to have the leftie PC groups patronising them for it.

FacePalm says:

11:47am | 24/01/12

Bev. “Hint, not it is not those of Anglo Saxon descent”.

Where do you get your stats for your comment please? Could not find it on the link you provided and was just wondering whether this is your opinion, or based on fact.

Caroline says:

12:02pm | 24/01/12

Thanks jf, borderer and cynicised for your comments and getting my point.

Bev, I was trying to show the irony of our beautiful country being labelled as a racist one. My father is a 1950’s Irish import, from the moment he landed in Fremantle he has thanked his lucky stars he was given the opportunity to live here. Do all immigrants feel this way? I don’t believe they do, hence the number of girls sent back to their parents homeland so not to dilute their gene pool.

Australia does have yobbos, in fact my street is home to a family of them. This doesn’t mean the other 21 families should carry the same tag. I’m getting a tad tired of this subject coming up every year at this time when we should be celebrating our good fortune of being Australian.

Bev says:

12:20pm | 24/01/12

FacePalm says:11:47am | 24/01/12

Bev. “Hint, not it is not those of Anglo Saxon descent”.

Where do you get your stats for your comment please? Could not find it on the link you provided and was just wondering whether this is your opinion, or based on fact.
I did not supply a link for my second comment.

Do Anglo Saxons send girls back to England to be wed?

Bev says:

12:26pm | 24/01/12

Caroline says:12:02pm | 24/01/12
Believe me I am on your side.  I just did not read your comment the way you intended.  I think many of us are getting very tired of having this subject dragged up every Australia Day and applied in a slanted way. As such many are tetchy about the subject.

Cry in my Gin says:

10:45am | 24/01/12

“Unfortunately, racism still exists in Australian culture today. But if you think it’s bad, you would’ve cringed if you had heard some of the things my mum said about you “white devils”. “

This is a quote from Charlie’s speech. Find it, read it and tell me you would not like to have a beer with this bloke. The whole thing has been stuffed up by the media focussing on a couple of lines in a lengthy speech.

Joe says:

09:34am | 24/01/12

Racism exists amongst minority peoples also, even very small minority groups.

Exhibit A:

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/western-australia/bashed-teen-speaks-of-terror/story-e6frg143-1226250240756

Case closed.

Mark says:

11:32am | 24/01/12

Spot on Marty! Happy Australia day mate. Go the Aussies!

Russell says:

11:54am | 24/01/12

@ Joe,

This bloke ought to be thankful he just got a beating.  Lucky he wasn’t in the Ivory Coast.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/16/ivory-coast-murders-foreigners-report?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

Given Charlie Teo’s plan for more refugees, in Australia in the not too distant future he might as well be the Ivory Coast.

Osiris Fox says:

11:55am | 24/01/12

@Joe: Typical African mentality that. They only know mob rule, because that’s how they were brought up sadly. Not their fault really - poor governance and no rule of law forces one to be part of a mob for protection from other mobs. The problem is, we are not that type of society and they can’t accept this change. In this article, there were 20 of them. Sadly, they clearly aren’t going anywhere in life, though they will all have at least 3 children. Then, there will be 80 of them, still operating on the same mindset (remember, we learn for our parents and changing that base is exponentially difficult) Now, they control a whole street and the mob is now basically impossible to control without violence. The main perpetrators of that crime (not all, just 2 or 3), should be deported as an example to the others.

Bev says:

09:53am | 24/01/12

Agreed.  Ditto for Anzac day and Feb (St Valentines day)

St. Michael says:

12:19pm | 24/01/12

Maybe if you guys actually read the transcript of his speech before straw manning it? Maybe it wouldn’t lose traction if you didn’t take a teal deer approach to life so much?

Dr. Teo was saying there’s racism, but it’s a hell of a lot better than it was, and he freely admits elements of ethnic minorities openly practice racism in Australia too.  And in his case, the “myth” was his own daughter getting abused in the street on Australia Day, and a professional associate of his getting spat on right in the street as well.  Read the bloody speech.

Bev says:

03:40pm | 24/01/12

St. Michael says:12:19pm | 24/01/12
As others have pointed out we have become so used to these pre Australia day rants that many of us dismiss it as such.  I agree the speach was balanced (after a read).  BUT most of the media cherry picked the speach in an attempt to portray Australians as racist.  As Erik said cry wolf to often and people turn off.  The speach was a vast and welcome change to the race debate.  While there exists a body of people (no labels) whom push the point that we are racist (the worst in the world) and shout down and label anyone who trys to debate them this state of affairs will continue.  Maybe this will be the catalyst for a reasoned debate but I doubt it.

Same for the Anzac day rants and feminist turning St Valintines day into a hate rant against men instead of allowing couples to express their affection for each other.  Though I will agree that it has been commercialized beyond its original meaning.

Get used too it says:

10:04am | 24/01/12

Yes too true, racism by a severely discriminated minority group doesn’t get labeled as racism.  I think they call it pay back.  Better get used to it, there is likely to be a lot more of it and it is going to go unpunished by the anti-white PC brigade that now hold the strings of power.

Paul and Mary says:

10:16am | 24/01/12

Sit
Roll over

good boy

Sarahh says:

11:48am | 24/01/12

Yeah I got told to “go back to where you came from you white bitch” on a Brisbane street by an Aboriginal.  I didn’t go to the media about it, claiming there was a racism epidemic.  I know that wasn’t the intention of Charlie Teo, but why do we need to keep going over the same old thing time and time again.  The majority of people are good, but I suppose as the saying goes, the squeeky wheel gets the oil.

St. Michael says:

12:22pm | 24/01/12

“Back to your dreaming, Jackie,” makes a nice riposte in those situations.

Cathy says:

09:50pm | 24/01/12

Could you list some of these ‘accurate’ generalisations please? Particularly any you have about Africans - I’d love to see how accurate they are in relation to my partner and in-laws.

FacePalm says:

11:59am | 24/01/12

The realist says…“the various tribes..hate each other and they all bring their hatreds to Australia”.

You see, this is an example of racism in play. I have worked in Pakistan, and have met so many wonderful people who are also sick of racism, extreme Islamism, and terrorism. By simply saying “they all hate each other and all bring that hatred to Australia” you are failing to judge each person on their merits, tarring everyone by the same brush, and judging an entire population’s individuals (incorrectly) and solely on race.
How is that not racist?

Katie says:

10:36am | 24/01/12

If your daughter was afraid to celebrate Australia day because of abusive attacks - and you were invited to make an Australia Day speech.  What would you make the content about?  Should Teo be fake, disregard his feelings about this?  Dishonor his daughter by minimising and not speaking up?  Should the content of his speech be censored and controled by government agencies?  Should the government have chosen another ambassador, one they can guarantee won’t talk about race issues?

hawker says:

10:04am | 24/01/12

So you’re saying we should accept racism because it is inevitable?

Dan says:

10:14am | 24/01/12

Just got back from New York. A genuinely multicultural community, that celebrates it’s differences and learns from them, instead of shouting them down.

Migrants aren’t asked to ‘learn, accept and embrace’ some pre-set list of “American Values”. They’re encouraged to hold on to their culture, and share it with others. People live their own lives, speak their own languages and enjoy themselves. And it’s a wonderfully harmonious community.

I know the same can’t be said for the rest of America, and I understand New York hasn’t always been a shining light for tolerance itself. But that’s certainly the impression I got.

So no, i don’t think things are better here than they are elsewhere. I don’t think the behavior of drunken yobbo’s, however small a minority they may be, is ever forgivable. And I think we genuinely should be working to eradicate whatever elements of intolerance persist in the wider community - because it is achievable.

Wayne Kerr says:

10:57am | 24/01/12

Eaxactly Anna C.  I had similar child hood experiences, I was even spat on.  I know however the people doing this were morons and not typical of everybody in this country.  The majority of my life I’ve been treated with respect.

Australia is no more or less racist than any other country or culture.  I’m tired of the regular media and academic beat up trying to make us feel guilty about being Australian.  The majority of Australians are not racist bogans.

Joseph Logan says:

12:55pm | 24/01/12

Chop, you dumb bastard!
Thats exactly the clear point I made.

James1 says:

10:34am | 24/01/12

So, you agree with Dr Teo?  After all, you say pretty much the same thing.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:54am | 24/01/12

Well I’ve been abused by white people as well for not being Australian enough.

Again another person where the point of the article goes over their head.

chop says:

12:10pm | 24/01/12

life experience from two incidences with 3 Malaysian students does not constitute ALL asians Joseph.

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:57am | 24/01/12

Good post.

It goes to the heart of points I bring up regularly. If someone is robbed by some white kids do they think we have a white crime problem?

There are bad lots in every race and unfortunately that’s what makes the news and tarnishes everyone else.

Peter says:

12:16pm | 24/01/12

Great post, mate.

Osiris Fox says:

12:41pm | 24/01/12

Simon: No, because white people make up more than 80% to 90% of this country. Thus, if a person from that, statistically speaking primary and ruling race group commits a crime, the “white” qualifier is actually unnecessary as it is assumed. Also, look no further than the drive-by’s in the West at the moment. It’s 90% middle eastern, end of story. Why is no one coming forward or speaking to the police? Fear?? Bullshi…. If this happened in my neighborhood, if the perps were known or even suspected by some in the community, the police would’ve been informed long ago.

Osiris Fox says:

01:11pm | 24/01/12

Gidgee: Your comparisons are sensationalist and not very effective nor reflective. Muslims kill each other more often than anybody else kills them due to religious intolerance of each other. They are also involved in nearly ALL the wars in the world, why is that?? (and no, that’s not part of the global conspiracy to destroy Islam.) Also in the countries that adopted them, calling for things like Sharia Law, spitting on women for dressing immodestly when they’re actually not, that’s the kind of the thing that makes people angry with Muslims (and the fact that the moderates don’t berate the extremists - keeping quiet, is tantamount to support). Think about someone (who you’ve just essentially taken off the global street) coming into your home, and who doesn’t really pay much rent, but then wants to start making the rules, and calls you racist for not wanting to follow.

Finally, you are right about the trade dominance, though WWII wasn’t about religion, it was all about money and power. The Jews got lucky hundreds of years ago during the middle ages because they were allowed to charge interest on loans by the various Crowns where Christians were forbode from doing so (it was a sin, same as the Muslim now). Ergo, the Jews over time grew to rule the banking system and ultimately held a disproportionately large amount of control and influence in the European economy and various countries. This, as you can understand, bred a lot of resentment and the rest of course is history.

Gidgee says:

02:41pm | 24/01/12

Osiris Fox, thanks for the reply, appreciated.

..sadly your attitude to the creed of the Muslims is decidedly unreasonable when you say such adherents are involved in ALL wars - I presume you mean the current global madness - such galloping myopia about a religious group does you no credit because, ahem, it most assuredly takes two to Tango - and even the most dedicated and US-fawning westerner would have to admit that it is actually our side of the divide who are involved in ALL the occupational and murderous invasive conduct aimed at nations who ascribe to the faith of Mohammad - mainly because such once ignored societies have been born to land soaking in oil.

The US’s domestic oil production is virtually zilch so they of that machinery-dependent land have to obtain such vital “Texas Tea” from those who are born to it and, as I point out, it is they of the Muslim faith who got lucky (or unlucky depending on what side of the fence you’re born to) in where they drew their first breath in life.

I acknowledge your agreeance with my earlier offering about the cause of wars being always and ever due to territorial or trade “wants” but you seem to have deliberately overlooked what always comes in lock-step, comes hand in hand with such military-engineered covetousness: rank, often outrageous propaganda.

...and Osiris Fox, the propaganda to enable our western nations to rally and join forces with the USA is solidly centred on the Islamic faith of the oil-rich lands in the same way as we, in the past, have referred to the Germans as heathens and Huns; as the Germans of the Second World War as “filthy Nazis”; as we’ve been so often and so repeatedly schooled to refer to the North Koreans in a most derogatory sense and, of course, the Vietnam War “entertained” us of the west with such epithets labelling the valiant and dogged Asian enemy, as “slopes” and other disgusting put-downs designed to ensure that we felt good about killing such peoples - and leaving us with no sense of guilt as their pitiful corpses lay rotting on the killing fields and, to our shame, in the civilian communities.

In line with that thinking your reference to spitting and other such demeaning rhetoric aimed at those of Islam is, really, an extension of all that’s gone before: when we (of any race of mankind) seek to steal territory, property or, say, oil from another we of humanity always and ever ruthlessly deride those whom we intend to deny, displace and/or slaughter.

It’s just us.

Good luck, Gidgee.

Osiris Fox says:

05:03pm | 24/01/12

Gidgee:

I’m afraid many of your assertions are not quite accurate. The lions share of their oil needs are not met by the Middle East. I do agree however that Saudi Arabia and America are virtually engaged, and perhaps you need to actually realize that the Saudis are intrinsic (behind the scenes of course) to all these wars as well. You will recall the initial invasion of Iraq was because they tried to annex Kuwait (Kuwait, while not part of Saudi, is certainly part of the Saudi click and the Emirates - in other words Rich Arabs.)

In lieu of the US not having much oil. Well they actually do, but just can’t produce fast enought to keep up with demand. Also,go read up about Oil shale reserves. Oil shale will come in to play eventually once the techology for extraction matures and becomes more effient, thus allowing it to compete as conventional extraction dries up and prices begin to go up (provided of course peak oil is factual and not a myth used to control supply and inflate prices.) We’re already seeing this happen with oil sands, once considered too inefficient, but now the oil companies are clambering for a slice.

http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/100726/top-7-us-oil-importers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_the_United_States

As for me saying ALL wars, no I said nearly, but you’re right I was over-exageratiung. But they do seem to want to convert, kill, or force their religion onto other people, for example:

Southern Philippines
Sudanese Civil War
Nigeria instability
Ivory Coast instability
Southern Thailand

Anyways, I’m tired now, it was fun.

marley says:

07:54pm | 24/01/12

@Gidgee - first, you should read what Dr. Tao actually said, instead of what you think he said.  His examples of racism go back to his own childhood, the abuse he suffered from whites, and to his mother’s racist attitude towards whites.  It’s rather more complex than you think.

And second, the Germans had a problem with Jews not on the basis of their religion but on the basis of their ethnicity.  Converted Jews could still end up in the gas chambers.  Just like gypsies and gays and Slavs.  It is far too simplistic to describe what happened as simple “religious intolerance.”  It was based on “race” or if you like “ethnicity” and had to do with bloodlines, not Torahs.

Gidgee says:

07:50am | 26/01/12

“And second, the Germans had a problem with Jews not on the basis of their religion but on the basis of their ethnicity” says Marley.

What nonsense.

The German peoples were inclined to despise the Jew because he/she of that religious persuasion effectively controlled the financial system and it (the German financial structure) was being bled white, not by the Jewish bankers but by the shocking reparations demanded by the victors of the Great War which ended in 1918.

In circa 1933, when the Austrian fellow Adolf Hitler came to power in Germany a housewife could (hypothetically speaking) could push a barrow load of Marks to the local Bakery and not be able to afford a loaf of bread!

The awful situation was beyond dire and Herr Hitler, like it or not, dwelt on those fiscal factors, and the injustice thereof, invoking hatred for the Jewish adherents for doing the bidding of the financial conquerors, so to speak, of Germany.

For you, Marley, to so stridently try to tell fellow bloggers and me that Jewry is ethic is bizarre: it’s as cockeyed as you trying to tell me that Catholicism, or Presbyterianism, or the Muslim faith defines a distinct blood line in mankind.

There are, of course, many black Jews who hail from the Horn of Africa, many sub-continent Jews of India and, as you’d be well aware many Russian, German, American, English Jewish adherents to boot.

Modern man has been artfully led to believe (and Marley obviously accepts it) that the creed of Judaism represents a “race” of mankind but, as I say, that’s ridiculous in the extreme.

So well entrenched is that contrived misconception that even I, only recently, on visiting a little Gold Coast bookshop whereupon and whereat the sweet old lady behind the counter, when I purchased a novel from her, said “are you Jewish?” and I replied “no, why do you ask?” she then said “but you look Jewish”..

I’ll leave you, Marley, to work the very common fallacy out of your somewhat myopic system.

Oh, and as to your decidely one-eyed recitation about the horrors of the Second World War in Europe one is led to wonder why western society doesn’t move on to talk and write so pointedly and so accusingly about some of the reported atrocities of the various US-led wars since: gosh, you don’t think, Marley, that the constant and repetitive reference to the Axis Powers shocking conduct in war of over 65 years ago is designed, by western propagandists to take the heat off what the west has so disgracefully and so brutally done since, do you?

Perish the thought.

Gidgee.

marley says:

09:44am | 26/01/12

@Gidgee - Do you seriously think that it’s nonsense to claim that Hitler had a problem with Jews based on their ethnicity?  You’ve got to be kidding. 

Whether you think the Jews are a race or not doesn’t matter at all;  what matters is that Hitler and his Nazis thought they were a race, and developed their policies on that basis.  Or haven’t you ever heard of Aryans, of Herrenvolk, of inferior races and subhumans?  Hitler didn’t care if Jews were practising their religion;  in his view,  Jews were racially inferior to Aryans, and their inferior genes were continuing to pollute German society.  He therefore decided to eliminate those genes.

Most of the extermination policies of the Nazis were based on racial, not religious, factors - Jews, Romani, Slavs, all paid the price. 

As to whether I think myself that Jews are a race, certainly not.  I never suggested such a thing.  Some European Jews do share an ethnic/genetic heritage due to intermarriage over the centuries, which is why certain diseases pop up only or primarily within that community (Tay-Sachs, for example).  Rather a lot of American, Russian, German and English Jews share that heritage. 

But then, the Amish also have common genetic factors for precisely the same reason - a comparatively small, closed community. 

None of that has anything to do with larger issues of “race” nor does it imply that all Jews are European. 

As to my “decidely one-eyed recitation about the horrors of the Second World War in Europe” - what the hell are you talking about?

Gidgee says:

04:36pm | 26/01/12

“As to whether I think myself that Jews are a race, certainly not.  I never suggested such a thing” says the somewhat rattled and obviously befuddled Marley.

Hang in there, Marley…in the fullness of time you’ll, even you, will get the substance and the gist of it all.

Jewry is a religion; end of story.

Somewhat pathetically it, Jewry, has been used by its dedicated adherents for the very same illicit and predatory purposes I’ve mentioned earlier - as the direct cause of violent conflict between humanity expressly for the cruel and grasping acquisition of land by the use of violence as exemplified in the conduct of the 1948 created Jewish state of Israel where the alien-born teeming incomers from all over the globe (of that religious persuasion) have openly declared that their exclusive interpretation of a deity “gave (Palestinian) land to them”.

The repetitive references by somewhat fanatical Jewish adherents to the awful events of the Second World War are consistently and artfully used, by them, to enable and maintain the 1948 “creation” of the modern state of Israel.

They, oh so cleverly, cast themselves, forever, as “victims”.

Since the creation of Israel in 1948, they of that faith have acted in the most horrendous and, let’s face it, Nazi-style fashion aimed at those native Arabs they’ve evicted (from Palestine) at the point of a deadly gun.

Only recently our Australian Foreign Minister had to call the Israeli ambassador to his office to seriously censure the Israeli government rep for using Australian passports for the purpose of selective assassinations: only a few days ago the Israeli military machine gunned down 3 Egyptian soldiers, inside the Egyptian border, killing them.

Only a few months ago the Israeli army stormed a vessel at sea and murdered a number of Turks because the Turks wanted to offer help to the horribly fenced-in and denied Arab peoples of Gaza - and only the other day yet another Iranian scientist was blown to smithereens in the most suspicious circumstances.

It is all very well for they of Jewry to continue to hark back to the terrible events of circa 1939 but it is time, high time, Marley, for they of that ancient faith to realise that worldwide sympathy is finite.

It’s been fast running out for Jewry ever since, say, the December 2008 barbarous massacre they visited, so disgustingly, on the fenced-in souls of Gaza where of the order of 1,400 Arab natives of Gaza were summarily slaughterd by the US-backed raiding Jewish army - included in that horrendous assault and outright murder, Marley, were 250 little children.

250 litte babies; little children.

Imagine, if you can, the scene as the powerful Israeli army so cockily withdrew leaving all those slaughtered people laying on the ground in Gaza.

They of the creed of Jewry are, sad to say, acting just as ruthlessly and just as criminally as any Nazi operative of Germany of the thirties and the forties.

According to this newspaper’s internet site the Jewish airforce saw fit to overfly Gaza only yesterday “taking out” a number of humanity who they of Tel Aviv saw as, in their opinion, as “insurgents”.

The despised Nazis of the forties would have been proud of what they of Jewry are doing right now in time - and ever since 1948.

(everything I’ve written here is true but I’ll be quite surprised if the editors of this site will allow my acute observations - that remarkably contrived slur and immediate put-down of “anti-Semite” runs deep, eh?)

Gidgee.

marley says:

08:54pm | 26/01/12

@Gidgee -  I notice that you haven’t tried to challenge at all my fundamental point:  that the Nazis regarded the Jews as a race and attacked them on that basis.  Judaism is a religion, but that, for the Nazis, certainly wasn’t the end of the story.  If you think otherwise, I suggest you do a bit of reading.  There’s a world of literature and history out there to support what I’m saying.  Start with Mein Kampf and go from there.  The Hitler Youth handbook is a good guide too.  Racism for kids. 

As for the post-war history, I don’t believe I’ve mentioned it at all.  So your sad little rant is completely irrelevant to anything I’ve said.

Sarahh says:

12:01pm | 24/01/12

The term ‘growing melanoma’s’ makes me feel ill

SimonFromLakemba says:

10:59am | 24/01/12

Lol way to look like a wank.

youdy beaudy says:

12:51pm | 24/01/12

@Joseph Logan, don’t worry. I write in all the time and i like you think my point of view is ok. Try to write balanced comments. Sometimes rarely i go overboard. I try not to be insulting because i have been banned for that. So that has tempered my replies.

I wrote in three the other day. Two were answering an article put forward by Tory Shepherd on some subject, but i was not printed for some reason only known by Tory. She does that sort of thing. Makes me think the Murdoch press is a bit one sided and not a level playing field. If you want to play on their field then know this, that if it is not the Liberal Party Murdoch press point of view they they will kick you to the kerb.

It’s ok because you know that they are thin skinned on the punch and only want to push the party line. I don’t know why Mr Murdoch doesn’t run for Prime Minister but he may not pass the test to get in. However, you may never read this but the Punch will. So much for freedom of speech. Freedom of the press in Australia but not freedom of reply. Ho Hum. I will not write any comments to Tory any more. She is too biased i think. But she won’t think that. An answer from her as to why not without her swearing like a commoner would be good. Don’t worry, have a good day. You never know there may be an unbiased reporter at the punch. The ones i have commented on today are worthwhile. Seems no bias there. Tory will miss ole Youdys comments. I have made a stance, others should also. The question for me is, ” Will i be banned for writing this.” probably.! But maybe i’m wrong and my comments just disappeared into cyberspace. They say it’s all about things that go ping don’t they!

James1 says:

10:32am | 24/01/12

That reminds me of one thing that annoys me about the multiculturalism debate.  In the southern cities, people tend to can northerners as redneck racists, not realising that people north of Townsville have been living multiculturalism for much longer than those in Sydney and Melbourne.  When those cities were so upset over the influx of Greeks and Italians, far north QLD had already had a sizeable population of Pacific Islanders for 80 years, they still had large numbers of various Asian, they had one of the first mosques built in Australia, and their Aboriginal population has been there from first white settlement.  They even had large numbers of Italians much earlier than did Sydney of Melbourne.

Bertrand says:

10:33am | 24/01/12

The most occa Australian I ever met was a man of Chinese decent whose ancestors had moved here in the gold rush.

He lived in outback QLD and spent a good part of the year hunting feral animals.

I came across him in an outback campsite where he had set up camp. Thickest Aussie accent I’ve ever heard and just some incredible stories.

What did it though was when I couldn’t find my can-opener and he pulled a big-arsed hunting knife out of sheath tied to his leg and opened my can that way.

SimonFromLakemba says:

11:08am | 24/01/12

@James1

Its different types of immigrants though. QLD don’t have the same mixture we do so I think that’s where it comes from and we know QLD’ers are a bit rough around the edges. Qld did have Italians from the early 1900s up in far north Cairns owning sugar cane and fruit farms and have a history with Arabs to. I know Broken Hill has NSWs oldest Mosque, its still standing and Adelaide has Australia’s oldest Mosque both built around the late 1800’s and early 1900s.

@FairsFair

The points you have raised there I have raised previously, when will people who ‘look different’ ever become ‘Australian’ nothing they ever do will be good enough as they will always be something else. Its a tough spot to be in.

I know my local Mosque here raised $25,000 for the QLD floods in one Friday night prayer session but received not one iota of media coverage.

chopper knows says:

12:24pm | 24/01/12

Hey Betrand did that guy look asian? because a lot of the descendants of the gold diggers have chinese surnames but are blonde and blue eyes?

fairsfair says:

01:10pm | 24/01/12

You are right Simon - regional Australia accepted new Australians when the cities rejected them. The Kanaka history is quite shameful however I would posit that the relationship was destroyed by th Canberra based “White Australia Policy”. Multiculturalism was alive and well in regional Australia (particularly FNQ) before it even became a defined term. I think it works very well to this day but I think it did se because it was a different time. Back then, everyone just became an Aussie and rather than holding on to their old culture they found a way to make that culture part of Australia. the Greeks, the Italians, the Chinese, the Sikh Indians, the Muslim Indians. They all have places of workship in just my tiny canegrowing hometown alone (to this day) and there has never been any race or religious based violence for as long as I can remember.

Infact the biggest issues up here in terms of “racism” is with respect to the relationships between Aboriginal Australians and non-Aboriginal Australians. I think this is because they were segregated. They set up Yarrabah and they set up Mossman Gorge missions and the aboriginal population have never been able find the happy medium that most of the other cultures were able to do. 

In a modern context though, the segregation is the issue. I can’t comment as I am not a member of a city community, but it seems as though division is beginning to happen and cultural groups are ingraining themselves in areas of communities and failing to or refusing to assimilate. This is down to things as simple as learning to speak English (or even some) and celebrating Australia Day. Yes those things seem trivial and minor to - but we are making all the same mistakes over and over again - surely it must reach a point where we face up to where we are going wrong in that for multiculturalism to be successful there must be compromise from all parties.

Wynston Cruso says:

01:16pm | 24/01/12

If a caucasian couple has children in China, are the children Chinese?

SimonFromLakemba says:

03:34pm | 24/01/12

@FairsFair

Great points raised in relation to FNQ.

I can only talk from living in a city like Sydney. The ‘segregation’ isn’t really that as such. People go where they can afford, so naturally that was in Western Sydney. The Vietnamese went to Cabramatta as they were processed in Villawood a neighboring suburb and its really the only place they knew. A point with the ethnic community, alot of the die in their homes and never sell so the community never really changes and when the kids move out they stay close as family is important to them.

But then on the other hand you have a place like Cronulla which is a massive majority white and I cant see that changing anytime soon for the same reasons as above.

I see it a far bit, I know I did last year there were lots of Arabs with Aussie stickers on their face etc, I thought it was great. When I was in Canberra every creed and colour celebrated Australia day.

My personal opinions are that we should dictate what it means to be Australian on other people, it should be a feeling inside of you as to what feels comfortable.

Bertrand says:

11:04am | 24/01/12

Downward envy is never a good look.

John says:

11:59am | 24/01/12

So Malleeringneck did you read the story at all? Because Dr Teo said most of the things you just suggested…

He was also saying his daughter is Australian-born, has customs that are nothing if not straight up mainstream Australian and she still got racist abuse - while trying to celebrate Australia Day.

What migrants from Italy, Europe, the US etc will never understand is the pain of being Australian in values but not in stereotypical skin colour. Asians and Indians can be more patriotic and assimilated than their detractors and never get a fair go because they’re judged to be foreign based on colour.

That’s the sad truth.

Australian says:

11:28am | 24/01/12

Finally, objectivity and some sense.

You people seriously need to get your emotions in check and be a bit more objective.

Australia heralds itself as a democracy, a country of freedom (despite not having any bill of rights, but most of you wouldn’t know that and the significance anyway) - a developed “Western” nation.
Equality and opportunity are the benchmarks of a developed country - at least in lip service and law.

What I don’t get is the constant comparisons by Aussies along the lines of “Burma does X and X too and are FAR more racist than we are hence we are NOT racist”.

So the benchmark falls to developing and underdeveloped countries, does it? Your benchmark for tolerance and equality are to compare it to the lowest common denominators and you feel proud about being “better” than them?
Why not compare yourselves to the highest - developed Nordic countries, U.S, U.K and if you dare, Canada.

These countries - those in the Middle East, China, etc - never ever purported to be beacons of tolerance, equality and democracy, nor do they hold these as values the country uses to distinguishes itself from other nations, above all.

The point is - your concept of being “Australian” is as shallow as a puddle of water.

I’ve met some very wonderful Aussies - some were young, intelligent, educated (far and few between in the prevailing culture amongst the youth in Australia that values traits which are the complete opposites of what I’ve mentioned) and very curious of the world around them; some were older, kind, some eccentric and very interesting people.

They would tell me that being born here or getting Australian citizenship qualifies you as an Aussie. The End.

Most seem to think that they are more “Aussie” than the children of migrants just because they were “here” first, because they look white, have blonde hair and blue eyes or speak with an accent.

Truth is how involved and invested (not necessarily financially) you are in Australia to me seems to be a more realistic indicator of whether or not you are Aussie.

I know non-white Aussies who work here, helping other AUSSIES (white, black, yellow, doesn’t matter. True spirit of to me, what it means to be Aussie),  while studying for their post-grads in subjects such as law, medicine, etc, so that they can be of better service to others, better quality individuals, are part of various political parties, run businesses that employ local talent, and are in the Australian Defense Force.

To me that probably more Aussie than some sub-educated tradie/white/blue collar worker working a 9-5, getting smashed all weekend, and have no apparent contribution to Australia except maybe taxes which are grudgingly paid -  who’s only connection to being Aussie was coming here on a leaky boat a couple of decades ago.

Many migrants who come here (like myself) come from countries which are far more developed and efficient than Australia, infrastructure, technology, to some extent, Government.
Hell, in my country people to are educated than the average Aussie - they just sound “funny”.

But we come here because we fell in love with the place and invested in it - wanting to make a difference.

To be pushed back and told we are not “Aussie” enough by virtue of our looks, our accents, our cultural traits (and I don’t mean nasties like fgm I mean perhaps our cultural celebrations and/or harmless quirks) despite being as “Aussie” as you can get - being citizens and not PRs because we want to be a part of the country and want to contribute, putting money back into the economy by employing and supporting Australian, joining the defense force when the majority of you so-called Aussies would realistically probably just immigrate if war sets upon Australia to fight for it - volunteering, ad hoc services to the invisible people of Australia - the indigenous, the homeless, the druggies, the migrants.

It seems no matter how much, and how long - many of you Aussies will only accept us if we are white, blonde and blue eyed.

Which is ironic, because you too were migrants between a few decades ago to just a few hundred years ago.

Mark says:

12:07pm | 24/01/12

I’ve read most of the comments on here and find very few to be racist. Quite a few talk about different races, but very few actually ridicule them. It is this overly PC definition of racism that is stifeling debate. Its not racist to describe someone as “a black guy” or “an asian guy” or “an arab”. This is where someones blood line comes from and forms part of who we are. On the other hand, a persons cultural and social character is what dictates their nationality… Get a grip! Its no different than labelling someone male or female, young or old, red hair or blonde hair…

Osiris Fox says:

02:57pm | 24/01/12

Hey to the “Australian” commentator above, you try and take the high ground, but then you just fall flat on your face and lose all credibility with the statement you made below:

“To me that probably more Aussie than some sub-educated tradie/white/blue collar worker working a 9-5, getting smashed all weekend, and have no apparent contribution to Australia except maybe taxes which are grudgingly paid -  who’s only connection to being Aussie was coming here on a leaky boat a couple of decades ago.”

What do you think that is? I’m afraid it’s a window into your mind and your perception of certain people. You have some work yet to do on yourself despite all these good things you claim to do in your comment.

Australian says:

04:35pm | 24/01/12

@Osiris Fox,

Is the truth so hard to swallow?

How hard is it to accept a fact that birthright may be a claim to “Aussieness” except for the fact that many have far earned their claim to “Aussieness” through more than just birthright.

In a forum, no one has more credibility than the other. Airing of opinions by all who are anonymous negates the very aspect of credibility because opinions are opinions.

I never attempted to take the high ground. I merely aired my opinions. And you have yours.

Good day.

Osiris Fox says:

05:10pm | 24/01/12

No, you tried to take the high ground, and then you were racist without even realizing it. So, you’re no different to those Aussie you denigrate.

James1 says:

11:18am | 24/01/12

I have no Anglo heritage.  I might be white but that does not make me Anglo.

Chewy says:

11:44am | 24/01/12

I was wondering how long it would be before the stormfront brigade enter the building.

Rose says:

12:49pm | 24/01/12

Why???

chopper knows says:

01:13pm | 24/01/12

well when you got nothing else to be proud of and definately very insecure then why not ?

Andrew says:

10:09pm | 24/01/12

So tell me rose, chewy, chopper why shouldnt we be proud of our anglo heritage, exactly what do anglos have in our past that other nationalitys dont have and whom are you to tell us we shouldnt be proud of our heritage. And in fact isnt you saying we shouldnt be proud of it a racist remark in itself.

chopper knows says:

10:49am | 25/01/12

Andrew -  The anglo’s in history (greeks, romans, English, Spanish) have all been ruthless, greedy warmongers. The chinese/indians etc have all stayed peaceful to the world. This is the MAIN difference.
So I guess maybe IF you think you should be proud of this then so be it…

Australian says:

11:45am | 24/01/12

@Tracker - it doesn’t matter.

Most people have first choices to go somewhere but didn’t quite do it/make it, go to a second one and decides oh snap, this is the place for me.
Maybe Teo fell in love with the place and decided this was the place for him - a person wouldn’t invest so much in a country if he didn’t have an emotional connection to it - having a family, being Australian of the Year (doing that requires you to be heavily and emotionally connected to the community which needs time, effort that many who see Australia as a stepping stone as too laborious), etc.
One only needs to be a little analytical to see this.

Australia in some countries are considered the backwater of all the developed nations, looked down upon for having infrastructure, policies and in general, being yoinks behind everyone else considered developed - unless you want to count in countries like Yemen, India, and compare to make yourself feel better.
So you can put aside the superiority complex many Aussies feel about many migrants coming in here.

But many come to Australia and fall in love with the charm, the laid back lifestyle. In comparison to many other countries, Australia is very slow, life is easier and you can work at your own pace - fast, slow, break neck and not get swallowed up and left behind.

And by the way - Teo is Singaporean-Chinese. The two are inter-connected. Just because you have a heritage doesn’t mean you throw it away. Although I do get that Aussies think that when you are “Chinese” you must from China so the distinction has to be made.

About the “break a leg and the law” part - its quite simple. Because your Government is short sighted and do not let the right people in.
Instead of allowing well educated, well-heeled and upwardly mobile migrants in, you penalised those, let in unskilled people and refugees in mainly to get the vote because refugees are so in vogue today (just watch the refugee boats get turned away when the next in vogue thing turns to Fuji apples or something) and they want that cheap and easy vote by humming in the tune of the current trend.
The second is that letting the flood of people in unmetered, unsifted and unchecked saturates the industry, pours money in short term (long term effects are ignored) and brings in lots of tax dollars so the corrupted can swallow it up.

Go read the papers in other countries if you think Aussie media is crooked and biased. Articles about refugees and the displaced that have no link to Australia mentions that Australia is a soft target because if you have a story and stick to it, Australia will let you in even if they know you are lying.

If any of you people have read the refugee convention laws you will understand that Australia does not have a duty or have to abide by some invisible law that it has to take them, so its not because of the goodness of the Australian Government’s hearts that they are taking these refugees - its because they think its an easy and quick way to promise you rubbish and buy your votes.

And about the “Chinese in Australia are not meant to feel bad about Chinese in China” is not true.
Chinese people from other countries are not considered as “Chinese” by people in China. This is why they are treated fairly consistently, because it is a general consensus.

James says:

01:43pm | 24/01/12

Teo is an ethnic Chinese. He was a Singaporean national. He is now an Australian national. What does his choice of home country have to do with anything discussed here? I have visited the US often. It is more accepting of multi-culturalism largely because the positive inclusionary (sic) actions in the past have raised the level of education about other cultures. In my workplace, I experience much more discriminatory behaviour from people above 45 years old than below. In my opinion, this is because the younger people (at my workplace anyway) generally tend to be more educated and are more sophisticated due to more opprtunities to travel and more exposure to other cultures.

marley says:

02:35pm | 24/01/12

@James - minor correction - unless Mosman is in Singapore, Teo is a native-born Australian.

marley says:

02:47pm | 24/01/12

@Tracker - I don’t think you can really say that Teo’s first choice of country was the US, since he was born here in Australia and chose to return here after gaining professional experience in the US. 

And perhaps the Han Chinese don’t feel guilty for racism, but perhaps they should.

Tracker says:

03:18pm | 24/01/12

@Australian - I keep hearing people say other countries consider Australia the backwater of all the developed nations but nobody bothers naming these invisible countries. I just keep hearing Australians repeat it as though we need to remind ourselves how insignificant we are on the world stage. I travel extensively, speak (fluent) in excess of 10 languages and in my over 30 years of travels have yet to find anyone criticise this country.. except for in Australia and in particular around Australia Day.. isn’t that strange don’t you think ?. As for Teo, whilst he may be a very talented man in his field you should read a bit more on him before putting him on a pedestal.

@James - ethnic Chinese.. that made me laugh but I doubt you would see the funny side, China is made up of many various ethnicities though Han would make up about 90% but because of sheer population that remaining 10% still makes the population of Australia look very small in comparison. I also think you are confusing younger people being more educated with younger people having had a generation of conditioning courtesy of our education system which is falling far behind even third world countries these days. You don’t have to be under 45 to be intelligent.. nor over 45 for that matter. I guess if you are over 45 you have a right to discriminate because of lack of education is what you are trying to say…lol I reserve my right to discriminate then )

Australian says:

05:11pm | 24/01/12

@ Tracker,

I don’t mean to make Australia sound insignificant - after all I live here, consider myself one and am proud (and not so proud of) of a great many things in Australia.

Its a love for Australia and a desire to see it change for the better in a positive way (and not lower itself down or its standards for a quick buck) which is why I sometimes find myself criticising it.

What others consider isn’t of any significance because they might believe one thing but it might not be necessarily true.

An example, many people in India (I hear this alot) consider Australia is the last resort of any Western country they intend to migrate to. First U.S, then U.K, if that doesn’t work, Canada, then lastly, Australia.
But then again I think they are in no position to consider Australia backwater.

I’m talking about countries such as Japan, Singapore, etc. Many see Australia by face value and don’t stay long enough to see the beauty of how Australia works, thus the way they perceive it.
Its like how some cultures believe that black people are all “criminals” when its certainly not true.

Yes, Australia has corruption like every other country, isn’t jumping to the next technological trend, takes time to update infrastructure probably because of size and cost, and is considered ‘slow’, but nowhere have I been that allows you to pretty much build as high or as low with no boundaries (perhaps except for superificial things such as having a “racial name” which is easily overcome by having an anglicised name for easy reference since if you’re a quality applicant even if you speak with a slight accent but have an excellent command of English people are quick to employ you) regardless of your race, culture, etc.
If we are to be realistic of course the majority would have it easier than the minority - it happens in every country, but Australia is a place where if you fight hard and hard enough you get to where you want to be.

I find that Australia is very unlike many places I’ve lived (well not quite 10 languages like yourself, I speak only 5) where the vast majority of people are quite average but the small few are so concentrated they consist of some really, extremely exemplary individuals (I consider myself probably a little above average and nowhere near these individuals) who are really intelligent, very specialised in their fields, well travelled and very forward thinking people.
And unlike many countries they aren’t always just made out of rich people.

Maybe its because you’re Australian so many people hesitate to speak up else they come across as just rude bashing - as an example, unless you’re a friend of mine I wouldn’t jump straight into dissecting politics and taboo topics such as Aboriginals and refugees.
It can come across as rude and ill-conceived (because I don’t criticise to be high and mighty, I do it because I want to have a constructive discussion with someone who cares just as much) and I don’t want to come across as that to a person.

Some (stressing the word some only) Aussies I’ve spoken to without having actually had any kind of meaningful discussion with are already in the opinion that I should kiss the ground I’m standing on (Australia) and thank the heavens I’m here - but I didn’t come here as a refugee and received handouts (which then I would kiss the ground for your compassion maybe), I came here, worked hard, paid taxes, fees, costs, contributed, volunteered, studied like mad, more than fulfilled all migration requirements in the beginning when I decided Australia was the place I was going to call home - to be good enough to be considered an asset, so naturally would expect the same respect every Aussie gives another.
And the fact that so many just jump straight into denial when a sensitive topic is raised because they don’t want to be confronted by a potential problem. Its like fgm - many people of the cultures that practise it will swear left right up and center it “doesn’t exist” or “its normal/clean” when its like a big, fat, wailing beacon waiting to explode into a massive problem.

It is after all easier to air your opinions online than face to face…hence you see many people being quite free with their opinions online but never really face to face.

Sarahh says:

12:09pm | 24/01/12

I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing that people deny being racist when pushed.  It means they consider racism to be unacceptable and don’t want to be associated with that label.  Much better than the alternative.

Marilyn Shepherd says:

03:22pm | 24/01/12

Really, what a sad little wanker.

marley says:

03:36pm | 24/01/12

Uhh, because it’s not a news site, it’s an opinion site.  Just a thought.

TommyP says:

04:55pm | 24/01/12

uhh   NEWS.COM???????  He is, the “editor”.........    Just a thought!

marley says:

06:57pm | 24/01/12

News.com is the entire website - you know, the Oz, the Daily Telegraph, the Herald Sun, the Courier Mail. 

Penberthy doesn’t edit them; he edits The Punch, which, if you look up to the top of the page, is a “conversation site” not a news site.  If you want news, got to one of the other sites and leave us poor opinionated bloggers alone.

Osiris Fox says:

02:41pm | 24/01/12

Would it be any different for a white male working in an East Asian country?? I think not. In fact he would probably be told to his face at one of these “small disagreements” that he is an arrogant white man and he must not try and impose his imperialism because this is Asia, not Europe, America or Australia. My friend, if those same guys are paying his rent and putting food on the table for his wife and kids, well, you just have to suck it up.

Also, maybe during these disagreements you’re just not adding any real value to the conversation and rather than accepting that you’re just not up to the task, it’s easier to say: Racist.

Another thing people forget in the work place, is history between people. I’m not easily going to take the side of the guy who I’ve only known for 2 years, than the guy who I’ve know for 12 years and been through a quite bit with.

Loyalty and camaraderie are human instincts, not racist.

By the way, I’m a W.A.S.P. immigrated here seven years ago, and the Aussies don’t really accept me either. I have ZERO white male Aussie friends, my friends are all from other races, ergo I am discriminated against by Aussies for not being the right kind of WHITE.

Australian says:

05:35pm | 24/01/12

@Osiris Fox,

Actually no it wouldn’t be like that.

They might be expected to fit in on a corporate level but in Asia business is business and they don’t do silly things like make fun of your anglo name because its silly and if you disagree it really depends on how you do so but there will be no “implying” you are anti-social.

They just expect you to know how to do the job and understand the cultural aspect of which to their credit, many white males do try, some don’t perhaps because of either stunted learning (i.e. thick) or a misplaced superiority over the people around him.

Of course they would perceive the white male as annoying and many would regard his behaviour as a novelty but generally I think unless its the older East Asians most younger ones are quite accepting of white workers - no imposing of ‘imperialism’ (is it still some sort of fantasy workplace thing?) because yadda yadda.

As far as I’m concerned if a migrant/person is trying their level best to fit in a corporate culture, to integrate as well as perform well in their job (which means having disagreements if he sees fit as part of his professional role) it is more than unfair and complete discrimination on their colleagues part for not acknowledging his efforts.
Maybe behind your back but never in your face.

If this was a white person commenting people would urge this person to complain to HR about workplace bullying and discimination, but because he is East Asian he is expected to “suck it up”.
Maybe he felt their comments weren’t adding value to the conversation, then?

Adding to your W.A.S.P comment - well maybe you’re one of those who think closing their eyes to a problem and hoping it will go away will solve the problem.
I’m all for Australia for Australians not Australia for whites.

SydneyGirl says:

06:10pm | 24/01/12

God knows folk from the place I come from can be awful in their own way but I have to agree with Australian.  People in Asia try and make a foreigner welcome and do not resort to silly “but its only a joke” kind of racist comments. It is commonplace to invite a colleague new to the country for dinner at home, for e.g. and generally try to make things more comfortable for the person.

While I have a good set of colleagues here, there does seem to be a feature of f**k off if you don’t like us and lame jokes about race even to *visitors*- I mean these guys are going to give a fillip to your economy AND are going to go back home so what’s the deal? No wonder folk don’t want to visit here - most of my friends skip Oz and head straight for NZ because they have a reputation for being friendlier.

Maybe this is person specific, but at my previous workplace a gentle English girl was pretty much hounded back home so its not entirely whites welcome either. Its just this once I am in, the rest can stay out.

I am sure Dr Teo is well intentioned but he is everywhere, the go to person for soundbites.  The man relishes being in the public eye obviously but its perhaps time he gave it a bit of a rest.

Osiris Fox says:

12:35pm | 25/01/12

You make a very logical argument “Australia”, thanks for sharing your view points.

marley says:

01:35pm | 24/01/12

Bingo. I thought it was interesting that the press jumped on the racism angle, and not the dumbing down angle.

TommyP says:

01:22pm | 24/01/12

Spot on.  It is as much my planet as it is anyone elses.  We should ALL have the rigtht to coexist on it!

Australian says:

12:00pm | 24/01/12

Well, that is racist if you needed someone to tell you that.

Whether something exists or not doesn’t have to be validated or justified by the media.

Bringing up such points to somehow substantiate something doesn’t necessarily make your point stronger.

They should be trialled and punished just like every other individual.

But what I see is, they were let in by the Government rather loosely and have little to no services, adjustment programmes, etc to enable them to understand what is acceptable and what isn’t in Australian (or any other civilised society).

I see Aussies saying “let them all in” to the refugees and “keep them all out” to the migrants when ironically and laughably, refugees take money out of your pockets and migrants bring money in (migrants inject crap loads of dollars into the economy, refugees actually cost tax payers a crap load of dollars), migrants are more likely to fit in because they fear their visas being cancelled and refugees less likely because they have no fear of any visa being revoked and have no effective integration systems or policy in place to help them adjust to Australia. Migrants are more likely to be educated and hold down professional jobs as required of their visas, refugees have no such requirement despite the majority of them being well-to-do in their country of origins hence able to afford the tens of thousands of dollars in fees to stop over in various countries before coming here as well as people smuggler fees.

Then Aussies turn around and say, Migrants are turning our society to crap. Truth is, you can’t pretend a problem doesn’t exist and hope everything will be fine and dandy again.

Limit refugee intake and create effective systems to identify genuine ones (though going by the Refugee Convention all refugees who come to Australia are not actual refugees - go read.) so you can quality control programs, policies and systems to help them make a good life in Australia and not be left out, isolated and just left to languish without any skills.

The problem was created by you - then you cry foul.

SimonFromLakemba says:

11:51am | 24/01/12

So a world recognised brain surgeon is a drop kick now?

James1 says:

11:51am | 24/01/12

Read his speech, RyaN.  He didn’t do that at all.  You are attacking the man and personally insulting him on the basis of things he never said.

James1 says:

12:00pm | 24/01/12

I am especially surprised that you take this position because you have first hand experience of the most racist people the world has ever seen: Ian Smith and Robert Mugabe.  I would have thought this gave you some perspective on the issue.

James1 says:

12:17pm | 24/01/12

Bumnuggets.  That should read *some of the most racist people.

RyaN says:

12:22pm | 24/01/12

@SimonFromLakemba: any racist is a dropkick Simon.
James I read what was on the ABC like you said and it wasn’t much better than the Telegraph.  Every single other article I can find is linked to a news organisation and portrays him the same way.

James1 says:

12:59pm | 24/01/12

That reporting was quite poor, as we discussed in the Open Thread a few days ago.  You can find the transcript to his speech delivered yesterday here:

http://www.australiaday.com.au/whatson/australiadayaddress.aspx

I strongly recommend you (or anyone) have a read - it is not what it has been reported to be, and is actually an excellent speech.

marley says:

01:01pm | 24/01/12

Here’s his actual speech. 

http://www.australiaday.com.au/whatson/australiadayaddress2.aspx?AddressID=30

I think it’s interesting that the press picked up his comments about racism, which are, in my opinion, pretty mild, and completely ignored his comments about failures to fund and support science and learning.

RyaN says:

04:37pm | 24/01/12

@James1 & marley: Thank you, I am reading it now, the statement “I have not experienced overt racism since returning 11 years ago from the USA, but one of my visiting Indian neurosurgeons was spat on by an adult male who drove past him as he waited at a traffic light. ” to me seems strange and largely subjective. How does he know that the man spat at him because he was Indian, especially considering the first part of his statement. Surely if he had not experienced racism in 11 years then making a flat out assumption that an incident involving a colleague which he did not see nor know of the reason could be assumed to be racism?
Racism would also imply some sort of institutionalised or government orchestrated intolerance yet he makes this statement “I received assistance from the government to attend medical school at the University of New South Wales”. Now what sort of racist Australia would be supporting that?

While I agree with you James on the content of the speech and yes 100% agree that the media have totally twisted this to their little left wing marxist ideal as has David Penberthy in the above trash, I am still left bewildered as to why he had to raise something as completely minor and irrelevant as something someone he knew experienced and that incident may or may not have been linked to one persons racist view.
While after reading that I feel a lot different about the person it sill leaves me questioning his motives in his statements.

SimonFromLakemba says:

03:44pm | 24/01/12

Why would that be racist? Not sure if you were trolling looking to get the answer you were hoping.

Sarah says:

04:09pm | 24/01/12

I don’t think you’re racist - but what do I know? I’m suffering under ‘white guilt’ apparently.

I live on the Gold Coast and we see Arab tourists here a lot, a few years back I saw at the beach, two women in burka’s struggling to get into the water and cool down, because of the big sacks wrapped around them and with them was an Arabian man wearing speedo style swimmers carrying a whole heap of expensive looking camera-gear.

I had been watching him over the previous hour or so and he regularly paused ‘his’ fun to slap these women on the arms and the neck (I think the neck - can’t see much with a big black sack on them) and shout at them in what I guessed was Arabic. He treated them in a way that most of us wouldn’t treat a dog. And they stood there and took it. And shied from him when his temper really flared.

Anyway, I remember him putting down his camera gear on the sand and yelling again at these two women, who by that point were in about waist deep, still wearing their burka’s and were splashing about very awkwardly - when a wave came in and honest to goodness snatched all of his camera gear up from the sand and washed it out to sea.

I couldn’t help myself, but laughed my head off for a good 20 minutes over that. Served him right the arrogant bastard.  Couldn’t have happened to a nicer guy. But I too, felt a bit sorry for those women.

TChong says:

04:39pm | 24/01/12

sarah
your story seems almost too cliche’d to be true-
Two repressed women, arrogant man, arabic language, hesa bully, but gets his come uppence.
ACA, TT,or Cory Barnadi might almost have scripted it, if it werent true,
so, I’ll believe it.
Im sure the women also enjoyed the hilarity of the pix lost, because you know they were repressed, or whatever, and you know what ever pix were on that camera, they wouldnt care about.
No holiday memories for them.
But hey, you just KNOW the whole story.

marley says:

07:23pm | 24/01/12

@TChong - I don’t want to comment on that story, but I’ve been on beach holidays myself in more than a few places where the women were wearing, certainly not burkas, but shalwar kameez with head scarves while the guys were wearing shorts and singlets. 

Now, as I understand it, Islam requires that both male and female should be properly covered from ankle to neck and wrist to shoulder.  So, how do the guys get an exemption while the women don’t?  There’s a lot of hypocrisy floating around, and a lot of male chauvinism as well, for that to happen.

marley says:

02:40pm | 24/01/12

If you read his actual speech, he made it very clear that there was another, probably more important problem here - the dumbing down of our educational and scientific systems.  He was a lot more worried about that than about racism.

Carl Palmer says:

04:45pm | 24/01/12

@ marley says: 02:40pm | 24/01/12
Thanks for that. I went looking for it but ran out of time, so just responded to this post.

If the dumbing down of our educational and scientific systems was more important, why even mention the word racism. We all know where that always ends up going. Unfortunately, he’s lost the opportunity to really sell or get his message out to the Aust people. As we can seen, the posts to this site attest to that. Got your URL, will read tonight. Cheers

Zaf says:

12:14pm | 24/01/12

just don’t spit on anybody or tell them to go back where they came from and you’ll be fine.

Scotchfinger says:

12:19pm | 24/01/12

I always support someone who begins ‘...you clown.’
My own feeling is, Australians, like most countries receiving refugees (legitimate or economic) feel uneasy when the refugees in question are from an unstable or violent nations. I am sure we felt the same about Vietnamese boat people during the Viet war. These days, Australians are unhappy about welcoming islamic arabs, who we see as perpetuating a particularly ferocious form of theocratic/imperialistic violence on non-combatants. Whether this is fair on the individuals or not, is a good question. But on the whole I believe that Australia is just as, if not more tolerant of minorities, as any other country, western or otherwise. Head-stomping bogans aside, of course. Once apon a time they were called skin-heads, well before Australia became one of the most ethnically diverse countries in the world.

St. Michae says:

12:24pm | 24/01/12

“And there’s not too many rules to follow. Just don’t drink and drive. I can do that.”

So ... I don’t drink and drive, because you’re going to do the drinking and driving for me?

Warren says:

01:06pm | 24/01/12

@Craig you might want to read @fml’s post below. It makes a lot more sense than your rant.

Craig says:

05:58pm | 24/01/12

St Michae .. no, I was saying I can avoid drinking and driving

Warren. Go back to being right and believing the government will fix everything and act in the best interests of the populace. I still don’t understand why people howl for the government to take care of everything and then howl when it becomes a police/nanny state. Make up your minds.

Scotchfinger. All I’m going to say is, sometimes those fears are born out.

chopper knows says:

12:57pm | 24/01/12

You couldn’t have said it any better FMl. The debaucherous lifestyle you have admitted is typical of what a “true aussie” is. It’s such a postive lifestyle isn’t it? Thats probably why other nations look at Australians like a pack of wild dingoes.

Marilyn Shepherd says:

03:32pm | 24/01/12

So did you integrate with the aborigines?

Sarah says:

04:26pm | 24/01/12

@Marilyn.

As usual, you pop up with your poison and spread a little more vicious hate.

I was in Woolworths last week and went to grab a cake mix off the shelves and nearly got myself beaten up by 4 aboriginals who a) refused to move so I could get the cake mix b) tried to push me around and trip me up and get in my face to intimidate me and c) told me to ‘Get F***ed you C**t’ and ‘F*** off and take all you c**t whites with ya!’

This was after not looking them in the face and doing my absolute best to not cause a confrontation.

Which then made me feel extremely angry as I left Woolworths that I let those fools push me around, in the aisle of a supermarket no less.

So Marilyn - I guess you and me can share a bench seat on our boat exodus then huh? You can tell me all about how much the aborigines are hard done by then, right?

RyaN says:

04:46pm | 24/01/12

@Marilyn Shepherd: only if he is 150 years old.

Wauker says:

08:01am | 25/01/12

@Marilyn Shepherd, I can’t help but ask how you would have integrated into Aboriginal culture, since you find it too difficult to assimilate into Australia from England.

Your court system would have had people point the bone at you; you would be living in a humpty and no grog to send you sillier than you are now!

Really what a bloody stupid statement.  Where in the world has a civilisation gone from progression to the dark ages?  Your brain is getting doughier by the month… Suck up your Disability Pension courtesy of us, the tax payers.  Is it an inability to get on with co-workers?

chop says:

12:31pm | 24/01/12

We should all be having Yum Cha instead cos its tastier then the barbaric Australia BBQ and its Chinese New year as well, maybe we should tbe two together…

john says:

12:43pm | 24/01/12

perhaps because they’re after bigger penises, not because they are indian or asian?

PaxUs says:

01:00pm | 24/01/12

I’d say it’s because they don’t want to be treated as second class citizens and dominated by the male exclusive authority that predominates in these cultures.  Why do you think Australian men marry Asian and Indian women?  They are subservient and agreeable, unlike the drunken trollops raised here, who make our Sheila’s from past era’s look fashionable.

averill says:

01:40pm | 24/01/12

What if it says “no red haired people” ? No one with brown eyes - isn’t this just a personal preference?

chopper knows says:

04:01pm | 24/01/12

John - are you suggesting white australian women are Promiscuos?

James1 says:

12:51pm | 24/01/12

Marx himself was quite racist.  He considered only western European countries to be worthy of his proposed workers’ paradise, and he even explicitly referred to Africans and most non-white races as “ahistorical”, in that they had nothing to contribute to progress and modernity.  He also argued that race was irrelevant, as it was social class and one’s relationship to the means of production that determined social outcomes.  He posited racial antipathy as a bourgeois distraction from the real divide in societies - class. 

You really know very little about Marxism, John.  You should try studying it some time - know you enemy and all that.

Gordon says:

09:47pm | 24/01/12

You obviously have studied a lot of history, by reading wacky Republican websites or maybe white supremacist garbage !! You idiots don’t even know what communism is!!! Every day as long as there is a Labor govt (made up of people mostly right of centre btw) they’re called communists. By the same logic ANY Liberal govt is fascist and Nazi. You lot are never wrong so it must be true. You truly have not a clue.

RyaN says:

09:55am | 25/01/12

@James1: Marx himself indeed held this view however the changes in marxism to communism in its radical form we now see infecting the world in every leftist agenda is using racism and subsequently white guilt as the Achilles heel to bring down the west.
The mere fact that these communists infect just about every educational institution spreading their filth is testament to the long term plan of communism.

“The Revolution won’t happen with guns, rather it will happen incrementally, year by year, generation by generation. We will gradually infiltrate their educational institutions and their political offices, transforming them slowly into Marxist entities as we move towards universal egalitarianism.” MAX HORKHEIMER,Marxist Theoretician

Oh and Gordon, Labor is a socialist but mostly communist party whether you like it or not. The leader is a rampant communist who has long connections and much respect in communist organisations like the Socialist forum.

James1 says:

10:54am | 25/01/12

Most of my study of Marxism ans socialism was the classical form (Marx, Engels, Owen, Bukharin and Lenin, in particular), but I was under the impression that modern Marxists, and their intellectual cousins the critical theorists, still considered race to be an arbitrary division used by the bourgeoisie to distract the attention of the working and middle classes from the real divide - social class.  While I don’t dispute the Leninist tactics of many modern Marxist academics, I still thought they considered race to be secondary to social class, and that this is actually what drives their particular brand of anti-racism.  That, if we move the focus away from irrelevancies like race, we can focus on the real issue.

I oppose racism because I believe it is wrong to judge a person on the basis of an accident of birth, much as I imagine you do.  That is a far more moral stance, in my opinion, than opposing racism because it will further some sectional cause.

John says:

02:03pm | 25/01/12

RyaN

It’s certainly still alive an kicking, if one looks at the media you find the media keep’s on repeating the mantra’s (Racism is an issue). This is just to reinforced the marxist culture on the people. We live in society that is not really real, what we have is a society that is manufactured with distorted reality’s in order to purse an agenda.

marley says:

07:44pm | 24/01/12

So far as I know, Prof. Teo was born in Mosman.  I believe that’s in Australia, not Malaysia or Singapore.

fml says:

02:44pm | 24/01/12

“The other issue many people have with multiculturalism (me included) is the groups who come to this great land (dare I say it; “our country”) and seek to introduce behaviours, laws and culture they were leaving, or escaping in some cases.”

As long as it is not illegal, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing so. you can do the exact same thing. Its the basis of democracy, you just need enough votes.

“don’t force it onto the masses” This line always gets me, what exactly have they forced upon you? how many wives are you forced to have? How many forced marriages have you been put through?

“that is why we stay and ultimately why you chose to come for the freedoms available to all.” I have to laugh at this, so your idea of freedom is not allowing immigrants the freedom to choose how the live, with in the confines of law. But rather forcing them to assimilate.

The australian political process is rather sturdy, it doesnt allow a couple of people to enter the country and change it dramatically. It just wont happen.

seanr says:

01:47pm | 24/01/12

“You don’t wait until your Mum’s birthday to call her a suffocating nag” nice analogy Patriot, well said

chopper knows says:

10:34am | 25/01/12

I wouldn’t tell an international brain surgeon to “have some manners” maybe he will take his business elsewhere.
How will you think if because of your comments, Dr Teo left Australia and 100 ppl per year kept dying of brain cancer/tumour, including maybe your mother who requires a brain transplant?
Do you feel honoured knowing you caused the death of a family member or other innocent Australians?
You should have some respect for what he is doing in Australia.

easy mistake says:

02:18pm | 24/01/12

it Charlie Teo, Ben is the footy player Definitely not a brain surgeon

Spiro says:

03:51pm | 24/01/12

sorry

fml says:

02:34pm | 24/01/12

I doubt that. You will only find some other reason not to.

Dan says:

02:06pm | 24/01/12

Just as some native-born are good for our country and some of them are not, and some are criminals who also drain our social services their entire lives and some are the most racist people I’ve ever met. A truly stupid post, saxon.

chopper knows says:

03:13pm | 24/01/12

Saxon - ` of the doctors and medical specialists in Australia are of asian background. Chinese and Indian and Vietnamese even.
I guess ` seems like only “some” to you.
When you are ill one day and visit the Hospital take a better look, maybe the doctor treating you for a brain doctor is Chinese Australian

averill says:

04:59pm | 24/01/12

I think that we all hear and understand what the Aboriginal tribes went through 200 years ago. What I cannot understand is how can some Aboriginal people rise to become Government Ministers, Doctors, Lawyers etc.,  while others still live in squalor in desert camps?

TommyP says:

08:47am | 25/01/12

@averill   ——  but a mere token few.  In relation to the number of Aborigines, wouldn’t even represent 0.00000001%   

By the way, I am white Australian, in case you might be thinking “here is another whinging Aborigine…”

TommyP says:

05:00pm | 24/01/12

You John, should be teaching our children some REAL history.  Not that which was approved by the constitution 100yrs ago.  How unfortunate, and disgraceful that we treat ANY aussies with the indignity and degredation, as we do our FIRST Australians.

fml says:

05:28pm | 24/01/12

If it only were to happen. But it never will. In a country where apathy and one line catch phrases such as “If it aint broke, dont fix it” or the “she’ll be right” beats any form of intellectualism hands down, i am afraid we will never see any change.

Marilyn Shepherd says:

04:30pm | 24/01/12

Being better is not the goal surely?  Especially when we continue to kid the world that jailing innocent children without charge is not racist, it is “border security”, but we all know if the kids were white we would not jail them without charge or at all.

Gordon says:

08:17pm | 24/01/12

Which countries? Pakistan? Mongolia? I’ve been to around 40 countries and never been aware of overt racism. A lot of people like to whinge that the Asians hate us. Funny I find SE Asia the most respectful place in the world. A quality the rest of the world would do well to gain!!

Andrew says:

10:38pm | 24/01/12

Marilyn, I guess when ‘‘white Kids” start coming by boats with no passports and ID then we will find out if we would lock them up, until that happens, how the hell do you know what would happen. Anyway, its not a jail but a refugee camp which is a big difference. We have a right to border security, and why its not ideal to lock kids up, we cant just let there parents out because they have kids.

Wauker says:

07:44am | 25/01/12

@Marilyn Shepherd I see youre still suffering “white guilt” and as someone else suggested still into self flaggeration?
It must be so lonely for you living in 98% Anglo-Saxon sleepy down town Angaston, Barrossa Valley, oh the guilt, the guilt.

fml says:

05:09pm | 24/01/12

how does that compare to the annihilation of an entire group of people in tasmania?

chopper knows says:

11:27am | 25/01/12

gee whiz Christine, I feel so sorry for your experiences, it must be so hard…damn..what a life..

fml says:

12:33pm | 25/01/12

What is the purpose of pointing out what nth generation australian you are?

Bertrand says:

07:34pm | 24/01/12

Did you even read the article? At the risk of reducing myself to your level, I would suggest the loud-mouthed know-all may in fact be somebody else.

marley says:

07:41pm | 24/01/12

@harry - well, perhaps you should read what the “twit” actually said.  And maybe you should consider how much he’s contributed to Australia.  A lot more than most of us, I’d say. 

And by the way, he’s not a “loud mouthed, know all immigrant”, he’s a native Australian born right here, and as Australian as you are..

chopper knows says:

10:24am | 25/01/12

Harry - Maybe one day when you have a brain tumour and require a brain transplant and Dr Teo is the chief adviser. You then can tell him direct “your a creep” and see what happens…

chopper knows says:

10:21am | 25/01/12

Yes Cath, unfortanately the Yobbo’s of Australia who uses these words “black c***” etc are descendants of the convicts of England. Extreme underclasses who stole bread and pickpocketed ppl. You can tell by the cars they drive and the way they talk. I wouldn’t take notice of these criminal decendants because thats what they are.

James1 says:

09:32am | 25/01/12

Germany tried that once.  From memory, it didn’t end well.

Joe says:

12:36pm | 25/01/12

Howzat - How wrong you are.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMb_72hgkJk
Comments on the limitations of democracy.

It can be argued that the Australian Democracy since 1901 has not served the indigenous Australians very well at all.  It has not protected them from attempted genocide via past assimilation policies, it has not protected them from discrimination, it has not protected them from having their land taken from them without just compensation and it has not protected them from the tyranny of the majority.  I think it is fair to say that the Australian Democracy, which has created one of the most successful countries in the world, has failed the indigenous Australians and continues to do so, for far too many indigenous Australians..

chopper knows says:

04:19pm | 27/01/12

Brilliant Gadda, thats what I will tell my daughter too, however your missing one thing. Dr Teo’s daughter is Eurasian, the mother is white Australian.
And with most eurasians, they seem to be more Australian and more proud of their australian roots then their asian roots…

Angela Moore says:

11:52am | 28/01/12

‘the’ mother or ‘her’ mother