If the price of freedom is eternal vigilance, for Canberra reporters this weekend the price of vigilance will mean surrendering their freedom - albeit temporarily.

Cartoon: Chris Taylor

The “lock-up” as it is known in Canberra parlance, will be in play this weekend to release the Government’s carbon tax / emissions trading plan.

Commonly deployed for the federal Budget, they work like this: Reporters agree to shed all communications devices, phones, wireless computer connections etc. and enter a secure windowless room in Parliament House for a period of several hours leading up the official public release of a policy or reform.

Once inside, they cannot leave or make contact of any kind with the outside world until it’s over. Metal detectors similar to those used at airports are deployed to stop devices being smuggled in and reporters sign contracts agreeing to those terms replete with warnings of criminal penalties for breaches of the official secrets act.

Such is the security focus that the lock-up is sometimes “swept” for microwave signals as a final check against information leakage.

Journalists agree to these bizarre conditions for one simple reason and it is not the stale air, the tooth-picked sandwiches or the instant coffee: it is to gain access to official information in enough advance to make sense of it before reporting and before putting questions to the PM or relevant minister.

This is an important point.

Such time to read, absorb and process is crucial.

But it works both ways.

For the PM, the Treasurer, and the Climate Change Minister, this weekend’s lock-up also gives them a captive audience - literally.

This is called “framing”  in communications jargon - which is a another way of saying ‘getting people to see it your way’.

Journalists can expect to receive an armful of documents and at least one highly favourable power-point explanation on how the scheme is to work - everything from price-per-tonne to compensation and industry assistance to the impact on the household budget and the implications for the economy.

At the end journalists will emerge informed and the Government hopes, convinced.

But this Sunday’s lock-up raises a more basic question: why?

In the case of the Budget, the lock-up makes sense. Some financial decisions and forecasts can be market sensitive and are therefore best released after the markets close for the day.

And in truth, governments of both stripes have done well from the fact that much of the reportage - especially in newspapers - is put to bed before the most hostile stake-holder reactions are aired if only because limited time post-lock-up does not allow for much before deadlines and so on.

But this release is taking place on a Sunday so market considerations are clearly moot.

It would not be the hope of initially soft TV coverage on Sunday night surely?

367 comments

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    • Erick says:

      06:13am | 07/07/11

      It’s the very opposite of democracy and community consultation: An arrangement made in defiance of the voters’ wishes, negotiated in secret without public feedback, and announced in a shroud of security.

      Welcome to the New Green Order.

    • Unionist says:

      07:26am | 07/07/11

      Hmmmmm and how long have you been around for??? the last downpour I guess. Governments have been doing this for a long time. You say some of the most ridiculous shit at times but hell at least it can be a good giggle.

    • No 1 Rosie says:

      08:22am | 07/07/11

      Erick

      More like, welcome to a mob of ‘try hards’ wishing and hoping that their announcement of the long awaited carbon tax details is of paramount importance. NOT! Spend Sunday away from the TV Channels that will be televising Gillard’s lie of the century, go out for some fresh air, it will do you a lot of good. Watch it later on the evening news!

    • Thomas Anderson says:

      08:43am | 07/07/11

      You’ve hit the nail on the head there, Erick. How do they expect us to embrace the carbon tax if we don’t even know exactly where it will go!?

      Are they going to plant more trees? Are they going to fund research into renewable energy sources? Are they going to build more windmills? Or are they going to pay bigger bonuses to themselves?

      Yeah, I am open to taxing carbon if I can be confident that it will make a difference, but I will not blindly support something like this.

    • The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

      09:45am | 07/07/11

      unionist….if your comment is any guide , i’d say Erick has been around a lot longer than you have .
      Budget lockups are the required for sensitive financial market considerations…..the ” shit ” you refer to is the requirement for a lockup in the case of a Carbon Tax announcement on a non-business/market day.
      The de-facto Prime Minister , Bob Brown is just loving the ” shit ” he has tipped all over the Australian public , especially unionist dills.

    • Harquebus says:

      09:57am | 07/07/11

      Well said Erick.

    • jf says:

      09:58am | 07/07/11

      Unionist says:07:26am | 07/07/11

      “Hmmmmm and how long have you been around for??? the last downpour I guess. Governments”

      Apart from budgets, when was the last time Unionist?

    • John Smythe says:

      10:05am | 07/07/11

      Galah, Got to admit I thought the author was joking with that lock up comment at first.

      Talk about abuse of power.

      Unionist is simply obvious troll.

    • scotty says:

      10:16am | 07/07/11

      Well said Erick.

      All for a party with approval in the teens - what happened to democracy again?

      I thought when 80+% of people vote specifically against a policy that democracy said it wasn’t supposed to be implemented?

      Oh and of course the fun part - only the ALP could possibly be so catastrophically incompetent that they introduce a tax that makes the budget deficit worse by $4b (according to the lefty Age) !!!

    • Paddy says:

      10:20am | 07/07/11

      Unionist, I find it hard to understand how the ACTU is silent on this issue. Perhaps you might explain the deafening silence.
      Tony Maher (CFMEU) keeps telling the members it is necessary and Ged Kearney until a month ago told everybody it is a necessity and has not been heard from since, apart from this pair the ACTU is silent.
      Perhaps it is waiting to be told what it needs to say?

      I can assure you of two things. The rate at which credit defaults for workers in cities (regional and capital) across all mortgage belts are being reported to both consumer credit reporting agencies (Veda and D&B) is rising in comparison with several years ago and the banks are forecasting substantial rises in defaults on mortgage and c/c portfolios from January onwards if there is an interest rate rise.
      There is a trend in SME business for workers to have less available paid hours and consequently disposable income after tax.
      Both of these point to a need for the ACTU to start to analyse rationally rather than simply follow a line what seems to be to get the budget back into surplus. If the tax was for a specific purpose there would not be so many so called exemptions and subsidies. The latest Wilkie requirement to look after a zinc mine in Tasmania speaks specifically to this point. It is a funding necessity for the Government.

      The other instructive action is the indication the Govt is intending to take funds from the Contingency Fund to subsidise the carbon tax revenue to pay the subsidies and exemptions otherwise the outgoings will exceed the revenue.
      There has been no real debate or discussion, it is more along the lines of “we know best and you will just have to accept the snippets of information we decide to provide” Sound like any other countries in the world or perhaps in history?.
      The other indication of concern is the assumptions behind the modelling have not been released, herein lies the problem because this is where you manipulate the outcome to achieve what is required.
      Unionist, it is like the old CEO who goes to his marketing bloke and asks what 1+1 equals, the answer is always 3 in our company. He goes to the accountant and asks what 1+1 is, the answer - “what would you like it to be?”
      Treasury and Garnaut operate in the financial world and model exactly like the accountant in the example. Neither has any expertise in science and both deliver what the master wants.
      I think Erik has a reasonable point and to use the excuse Governments have been doing this for a long time states clearly that you agree with him.
      The question is, why do you blindly accept it?

    • Anubis says:

      11:15am | 07/07/11

      I have been saying for the last couple of weeks on the Punch forums that the Carbon Tax was going to have a negative impact of the tune of between $4 to 5 Billion dollars. Regularly had trolls like persephone busting my chops over that one with “No it is revenue neutral”. What utter crap - if I could forecast a cost to the bottom line of that range then why were the press so silent on this matter - aren’t they supposed to have experts that assess the impact of these things?

    • Mark says:

      11:16am | 07/07/11

      Pfffft…. New Green Order my arse… unfortunately for those closet commies this is still a democracy… they’ll be out of power indefinitely as soon as the relevant election (HR/senate) rolls around.

      Enjoy it while it lasts freaks… you’re gonna have a long time to sit back and reminisce!

    • John says:

      11:43am | 07/07/11

      They bombed Iraq for oil, they bombed Libya for oil and they want to bomb Iran for oil. Who are the nations? US, France and UK. How strange is that? Foreign policy to secure the oil fields for western oil companys and a carbon tax for it’s people??. This another grand swindle? Weapons of Mass destruction, Al-Qaeda Lies and Gaddafi Lies. Do we have a global Warming Hoax? Carbon Tax Swindle??? Nah, they are soooooooooooooooo honest.

    • BobM says:

      11:57am | 07/07/11

      This is the ‘real’ Julia’s version of a more ‘open and transparent government’. Nice, eh? Next they’ll be telling us that “they’re just showers”.

    • Union smacker says:

      12:15pm | 07/07/11

      Hey Unionist!!! You were up in arms about Howard spending taxpayer money on WorkChoices ads to dispel all the lies you parasites told, so where is hte false indigantion now hey!!!

    • Daniel says:

      12:39pm | 07/07/11

      This country is a frigin joke lead by usless fools with no idea about the Australian people bar the fact they accept lies and more lies as the truth!!

      WAKE UP AUSTRALIA, I’m embarassed to be an Aussie at the moment! People will march on parlament for a small wage increase but won’t when it comes to being lied about regarding carbon as a pollutant!! The iggnorance of the sheepeople of this country shocks me to the core!! DO YOUR OWN RESEARCH AND YOU’LL SEE IT IS A CON DESIGNED BY THE BANKERS AND ELITE!! STOP RELYING ON THE LOWY INSTITUTE OR OTHER CORRUPT THINK TANKS TO GIVING YOU THE TRUTH… WAKE THE HELL UP!!! DAM IT BEFORE IT’S TOO LATE!!

    • Jack says:

      12:43pm | 07/07/11

      Looks like Unionist dills are being conned by their multi-millionaire Labor Party bosses. A desperate government here that is about to implode.

    • Global Political Awakening says:

      12:46pm | 07/07/11

      News Flash: Some of us do believe in some arguments regarding global warming or pollution in general. I for one, believe we have been somewhat inconsiderate to the environment and overall have just plain abused this mudball we call earth. I DO NOT believe in totalitarian governments and grand socialist gaia goonie agendas masquerading as sound environmental policies. Emissions will not go down, but revenue will go up. Some of us will have to cope with less income in order to supplement those less fortunate. This actually ticks two “feel good” boxes, as we are able to say we are saving the world for future generations and we help the poor. The tremendous amount of money that will be generated and redistributed will be somewhat immeasurable as the government will monitor the program as well. In regards to comments about OIL - just read Zbigniew Brzezinski’s strategy in regards to the middle east and the importance of access to the Caspian sea.  Afghanistan/Middle East are less about terrorism and more about the “Grand Chessboard”.

    • SimonTigey says:

      12:51pm | 07/07/11

      I wont be watching on Sunday, I have better things to do than hear depressing information about how my hard earned money will be stolen off me and handed to some pleb on the dole!!!!!

    • John the Zombie says:

      01:56pm | 07/07/11

      Anubis this the same arguement the same ppl use for the NBN. Many like to say that the cost is nuetral and that it has already made a profit but how can that be when the project has not been implemented and also there is no buyer out there that will pay 43 bn for the NBN. One thing these ppl dont realise the 43 bn does not include the interest over 8 years of borrowing on the project.

    • not over the hill says:

      04:50pm | 07/07/11

      Dear old tired whinging people,

      the nation is changing, your relevance is fleeting. The greens will not dissapear and the carbon tax will not cost the earth or abruptly end the world. Get over yourselves, you have known about the concept of environmental impact and awareness and consideration - but you have continued to surf a wave of improved standards of living and increased effects on the earth, without due consideration of consequence. The new era dawning is one of conscious responsibility, greater justice (it isn’t communism to share wealth more fairly throughout the world - that is just being considerate) and a real fair go. You whiners will only leave a legacy of selfish indulgence and arrogant indifference to the realities of our world, so step aside for change because you have made a hell of a mess and the new generations are here to clean it up.

    • Tom says:

      05:09pm | 07/07/11

      @Daniel, is that really you?

    • Martyn says:

      05:22pm | 07/07/11

      Erick why are you at home watching TV on a Sunday anyway. Heaps more to do than that. Sport outside,gardening, reading a book, visiting etc etc

    • Con Savas says:

      09:06pm | 07/07/11

      Erick, I totally agree.

      I think there are more powerful forces behind this carbon dioxide tax.

      Surely any politician that wants to stay in power wouldnt push something through that the public obviously dont want & need.

      They are going to bankrupt our country, for a cause that has no clear scientific truth whatsoever?

      Our once great nation is now lost to idiots and power hungry criminals

      Only Superman can save us now

    • B says:

      08:58am | 10/07/11

      @not over the hill

      Its called ‘Socialist Wealth Distrubution”.  A communist policy.  So in case you missed it, YES IT IS a communist policy!

      What a w**ker you are.  “it isn’t communism to share wealth more fairly throughout the world - that is just being considerate” You obviously DONT know the definition of communism or how a communist society works.  If you did you would realise it is NOT COMPATIBLE with our way of life.

    • Tom Daly says:

      09:24am | 11/07/11

      Quite obviously most people are missing the point of this Carbon tax , not seeing the ramifications of such strategy. Now , Australia will be able do, what so many other countries have failed to do , put us on an equal footing with the other economic giants of the planet , Zimbabwe and Bangla Desh.

    • Gran Depine says:

      06:23am | 07/07/11

      What do you call a Government that requires all its MP to get the Green light from the PM before any public interview? What do you call a Government who gags the media for their Carbon Dioxide scam tax marketing and propaganda show? I guess banks are too big to fail and ALP / Greens are too Democratic to allow complete freedom of speech.

      Who the hell are they to tell the media what to do? The gutless cowards do not want to announce their Carbon Price in Parliament before Sunday. No No no no Sunday is a better time for the house representing smoke and mirrors…shit, why stop there? The world is watching. I can’t wait for the next election for these bloody amateur Children to be voted out of oblivion.

    • Unionist says:

      08:40am | 07/07/11

      That is an interesting rant especially since it is coming from your side of politics, perhaps I may suggest you take a look in your own backyard before you drivel on about others.

    • Expat Ozzie says:

      08:57am | 07/07/11

      Um the price on carbon has been announced Gran Depine. You should learn to read more before you shoot your silly little mouth off.

    • Fred says:

      09:06am | 07/07/11

      Juliar’s ploy of releasing the CO2 Tax details on Sunday has the same stench as when NSW Labor the closed parliament early to prevent their corrupt dealings with the electricity sale from being officially investigated thoroughly. Guess you come to expect this from a party that loves the night of the long knives and betrayals.

    • SD says:

      09:24am | 07/07/11

      Her goes the Homophobic Unionist ranting again. You attitudes would go well in the BLF.

    • Jay Santos says:

      09:44am | 07/07/11

      “...Um the price on carbon has been announced…”

      Really.

      Where is the government’s officially stated per tonne price on carbon?

      Links to policy statements preferred.

      Didn’t think so.

    • jf says:

      10:02am | 07/07/11

      Expat Ozzie says:08:57am | 07/07/11

      “Um the price on carbon has been announced Gran Depine. You should learn to read more before you shoot your silly little mouth off.”

      So what is it Expat?

    • BobM says:

      11:05am | 07/07/11

      Answer from Expat Ozzie….............................the sound of crickets chirping.

    • Lapun says:

      11:59am | 07/07/11

      Gran Depine. Who,if anyone, is naive enough to believe that the government intends to “announce all the details” of the carbon tax on Sunday.  It will be no doubt an announcement which may announce their proposed carbon price and an outline of their intended framework.  But if anyone expects ‘full details’ they will be sadly disappointed.  More obfuscation and bland propaganda will be all that drones from Gillard, with assurances that “it is the roit thing to do’  while Ducky Swan says “of course” in the background.  I predict very little detail, and so many holes in the announcement that the Opposition will have a field day with it which is why they want the House to sit again next week.  And the lock down and timing of it on Sunday is to give the journos no time to look too closely at the deal before they have to have their copy in for Monday’s papers.

    • John the Zombie says:

      02:02pm | 07/07/11

      Expact Ozzie read the article again. In no part of the article is there actually a govt person been quoted in regards to actual price. The main action word in the article is EXPECTED not actual.The price is expected so they are making an assumption.

      THE controversial carbon tax is expected to have a $23-a-tonne starting price but the government has slashed the number of companies who will actually pay for it.

    • Gran Depine says:

      02:24pm | 07/07/11

      Once again, if our PM is “transparent” (as she self confessed during her election campaign)...why has she instructed all her ALP MPs and senators to obtain permission from her office before they are allowed to be interviewed? This only happens in Dictatorship regimes and Communist countries. Why has our PM Gagged the media from the Carbon Tax Show prior to Sunday? Who the hell is she to dictate to the media how, when and why on ALP policies? I see, I see the 1984 style thought police are alive and well…let us hit the sheeepeople with a $16Million dollar advertising campaign ( using tax payers money and use the media to drown any possible questions) before the PM’s 5 week excursion called pushing BS up and over the great dividing range. Can someone please publish her itinerary so that I can ask her a few questions with the World Media watching? That’s right ...no Dorothy Dicks questions, just good old fashion what’s up your arse questions. I will organize a live Internet feed so that the rest of the world can hear how stupid she really is.

      I can’t wait to Democratically confront her. I would like to see Treasurer Swan holding the PM’s hand and repeat the answer he gave to Mr Andrew Forrest when he questioned the backroom tax deal he made with the four big miners and not the rest of the mining industry. Would Mr Swan suggest I organise my State to secede from Australia if I ask the same question Mr Forrest asked? Furthermore, the four largest mining companies are public companies, haven’t they a duty to disclose all private tax rulings because they affect the company’s EBIT . The shareholders and the public speculators on the stock exchange, legally have the right to stop them trading on the ASX until they disclose these very important rulings. Isn’t this a criminal offence? If you are a friend of Comrades El Presidente Gillard and Treasurer (bridesmaid,  but never the bride)  Swan , disclosure is not a dirty or illegal word.

      I would like to confirm that NO CARBON DIOXIDE PRICE PER TONNE has been capped, confirmed or announced. I guess the people who inaccurately replied to my comment need to get their facts in order. I would like to know how much money will be required to lower the World Median temperature and Carbon Dioxide in 1 year, 5 years and 10years? Simple question.

      I will make the question more simple for the ALP Nostradamus finishing school of meteorology.  In meteorology, temperature is measured and reported in whole numbers not fractions of degrees. I don’t know anyone who can use their body to differentiated between 0.3, 0.8 and 1 degree. In saying that, if the temperature increases by 2 degrees and the water level increases by 1M or 10M, don’t you think the animal on the top end of the food chain will use that little old thing called ADAPTATION to live with it? For F$#@ sake it is not a a extinction event anomaly that will kill everyone straight away…so what’s the bloody rush?

      As for the Homophobic rants. When people can not debate, they use completely unrelated insults to address their insecurities. My question to you SD…is there something in the closet you wish to tell Mummy or Daddy? Possibly a whisper to Nanny Gillard ?

      Allow me to repeat my summary; Go away you AMATEURS. You are children.

    • Expat Ozzie says:

      02:24pm | 07/07/11

      John the Zombie thank you very much for pointing that out. It was actually why I was apologising. I miss read the article, namely the word EXPECTED. But thank you for your concern.

    • Unionist says:

      03:55pm | 07/07/11

      SD says:09:24am; “Homophobic Unionist ranting again”

      Because I said the word “Gay” followed by the word “boy” I’m now apparently homophobic….. Baaahahahahahaha. Unless you are horrified that ATM could really be one of you…. and that is your underlying complaint.

      You’ll never see me making disparaging remarks towards gay people. I may have refered to ATM as a gay person but simply refering to people as gay is not homophobic nor somehow derogatory, is it only gays that are allowed to refer themselves as gay???.... PC gone mad???. So you need to get a lil education there sonny about what homophobia is before you get busy typing away, besides I’m only helping him out of the closet.

    • PT says:

      04:13pm | 07/07/11

      Gran Depine, I call it The Liberal Party!

    • Unionist says:

      04:15pm | 07/07/11

      Gran Depine says:02:24pm; “I would like to know how much money will be required to lower the World Median temperature and Carbon Dioxide in 1 year, 5 years and 10years? Simple question.”

      This question is so stupid it completely lacks intelligence. The questioner must be so dense or closed minded that no matter what answer you gave it, he/she would not be satisfied… just like ATM… they’re probably one and the same.

      The basic point here where you like it or not but you have OBVIOUSLY missed it. It’s like this i walk down the road I see some rubbish there that annoys me I pick it up and place it in the bin. This does not clean all the rubbish from the worlds roads but is DOES make my place cleaner, should I have bothered to pick up the rubbish???

    • Tom says:

      05:13pm | 07/07/11

      Unionist, find another web-site to troll on. You are a pathetic little bore.

    • jf says:

      06:18pm | 07/07/11

      Unionist says: 03:55pm | 07/07/11

      “SD says:09:24am; “Homophobic Unionist ranting again””

      You are dullard aren’t you unionist!

      When you wish to insult someone in lieu of a rational, logical rational (i.e. every time you are challenged) you infer that they are gay. Ergo, you see being gay as a put down. Ergo, you think think that there is something wrong with being gay. Ergo, you are homophobic.

      Sheesh is that so hard to understand?

    • The Badger says:

      06:48pm | 07/07/11

      jf
      Stop being so gay about all this.

    • jf says:

      07:15pm | 07/07/11

      The Badger

      Only if you stop flirting with me.

    • The Badger says:

      08:00pm | 07/07/11

      jf
      red face

    • Luke4 says:

      06:45am | 07/07/11

      I hope the media do their job and show the publics reaction to Gillard when she goes on tour to explian to us why she lied! Or are the public going to be held in a lock up as well.

    • Unionist says:

      07:19am | 07/07/11

      Interestingly enough Julia Gillard has put herself in numerous situations where she with media met the public and I dont recall any heckling over your so called lie.

    • Christian Real says:

      08:04am | 07/07/11

      Luke
      That fact is Julia Gillard has not lies at all, as Tony Abbott and his Liberal aligned radio shock jocks and others falsely accuse her of doing.
      This is from an interview story “Julia Gilliard’s carbon price promise.”, in “The Australian”, on the 20th August,2010( that is the eve or the day before the last Federal Election.)
      “Julia Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.”
      Luje:
      In another paragraph she says:
      “I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme, a market-based mechanism,“she said of the next parliament. ” I rule out a carbon taxx.”
      Luke:
      So she has keep her promise going into the last election she and she is putting a price on carbon.
      Luke:
      This is from “The Age”  about your idol Tony Abbott.
      “Abbott dogged by old carbon comment.,June 7, 2011.
      “Tony Abbott’s past as a climate change “weather vane’ has come back to haunt him again.”
      ” The Opposition Leader has been shown spruiking a carbon tax in an old interview that was aired on Q & A on ABC Television yesterday.”
      “If you want to put a price on carbon,why not just do it with a simple tax?”, Mr Abbott argues.”

    • Gina says:

      08:19am | 07/07/11

      I wonder why her polls went through the floor when she announced she was going to introduce a carbon tax?
      Maybe something to do with “there will be no carbon tax under a Government I lead”.

    • Bob says:

      08:25am | 07/07/11

      Reply to Christian Real - Why then did not Julia spell this out rather than saying sorry for misleading the Australain Public on a Carbon Tax. Does’nt make sense. But liars never do! End of the day she is now going to impose a CARBON TAX which she said she wouldn’t as PM, as plain as the nose on her face.

    • MarK says:

      08:26am | 07/07/11

      Hi Christian, welcome to my country. Welcome to my country and that of my ancestors. You are welcome and no welcome to country ceremony or dance routine is required. Hell you don’t have to say thanks to my people for being here before you. How fair is that?

      Oh and Gillard is a liar.

      She is also a coward who along with the Greens and “Independents” have timed the announcement to come as parliament rises.

      So much for true democracy.

      What a farce. Hiding. That is how much conviction this lying woman has. I cannot wait to tell her that to her face when she ventures up here.

    • Julia is a Liar says:

      08:34am | 07/07/11

      Christian Real

      You are not very bright aren’t you, which part of Gillard saying that there will be “no carbon tax under a government I led”

      and 2 month later on Q &A said

      “Yes, it is a carbon tax “

      Which part of that do you not understand. Unless you think there is a fake and real Julia.

      How about 1 week before backstabbing Rudd, “Kevin is the PM and will led us to the next election.  I have no intention to challenge”

      She already had the knife behind her back already

    • Thomas Anderson says:

      08:48am | 07/07/11

      Ahh, let’s face the facts. Rudd was elected as Julia’s puppet, she knew she is not electable, so they put the smiley faced, spotlight loving Rudd on the job.

      And I would not be surprised if the front rows at Julia’s little speeches will be filled with the Labor mob.

    • Vaunted says:

      08:53am | 07/07/11

      @ Christian Real: are you an adult? I have the uneasy sense that you genuinely aren’t capable of accepting that Julia Gillard and Wayne Swan lied, deliberately misled, blatantly, dishonestly, dishonourably, with the sole intent of manipulating their way into office. But don’t take it from me, hear it from them: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KMVc0IbtyAQ Are these really the kind of people you want running our country?

    • Sam says:

      08:56am | 07/07/11

      Julia is a Liar, you left out the fact that she and Swan pushed Rudd to drop the ETS. You know Julia is lying the moment she moves her lips.

    • BobM says:

      09:19am | 07/07/11

      And where is our Governor General in all this? Out buying more dresses so she can impress foreign dignitaries, or arranging flowers to make the GGs house look pretty, or maybe even laying wreathes on the tombs of good men and women who sacrificed their lives for freedom in this country. Looks like they died for nothing…..

    • Julia is a Liar says:

      09:55am | 07/07/11

      Sam

      Or the fact that there is a East Timor solution, when ask of the East Timor solution the PM of East Timor said, this is the first I heard of it

      Kinda embarrasiing

    • Harquebus says:

      09:59am | 07/07/11

      I can’t wait and am definitely going to be there. If I’m allowed.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      10:36am | 07/07/11

      Ahh Christian, don’t try to reason with the Punchers with evidence and links to back up your case.
      Most of the posters here are part of an organised push by the Libs, complete with lines supplied to them, and competing to come up with the most puerile, offensive names for pollies, and trying to disguise the organised nature with appalling spelling and punctuation to make them look like “real people”.
      Well, that’s what I hope anyway, because there can’t really be this many ignorant, rude and juvenile adults as appear on this site every single day from 6am, can there?

    • Harquebus says:

      11:03am | 07/07/11

      @Christian Real. “The Australian, on the 20th August,2010”
      That’s telling the world. I only heard her say that she wouldn’t introduce a carbon tax.

    • Ripa says:

      11:04am | 07/07/11

      @C Real

      There will be no carbon tax under the government i lead. Now we have a carbon tax.

      Gillard and swan lied. End of story.

      The only real scientific reporting and analysis in the media today comes from your so called “shock jocks”.

    • Christian Real says:

      12:02pm | 07/07/11

      Mark
      You are not worth responding to,but I will make an exception this time because you are completely full of yourself like your hero Tony Abbott.
      You attempt to insult me and vilify my Aboriginal origin with your snide remarks,but racist like you don’t belong in my Aboriginal ancestors country
      When you put out your garbage for collection by the Council, don’t forget to include yourself in it.

    • MarK says:

      12:37pm | 07/07/11

      Even though you vilify me Christian I am still christian enough (ucwatididthar) to accept you as part of ancestors country and culture. You are most welcome. And please do not worry about me putting on a traditional polka song and dance routine that dates back ohhhh I dunno 3 months or so to welcome me to my country. You don’t have to thank anyone on my behalf.

      That’s just how I roll.

      By the way can you show me in Gillards campaign launch speech, you know the one where she spoke off the cuff except for it all being written down on notes for her, where she mentioned the hugely critical issue of climate change and the need for a carbon tax or cprs.

      Me and my ancestors will happily wait for you to get back to us Christian.

      Please do use the bins we I provide in my country for you and feel free to feel welcomed again. How good is that!! Two welcomes in one day. Gosh me and my ancestors have this welcome to my country thing down pat.

    • Mark Riddley says:

      12:40pm | 07/07/11

      Crisitian, you should just thank the white Europeans who have bettered you’re country that you are still alive you little twerp

    • Market based price. says:

      12:47pm | 07/07/11

      Fair Dinkum christian real.  Lets accept your premise.  So is this a market based price on carbon?  Ummmm no it isn’t!  So again the lie is proved.
      And good on you for having a go at the racist overtone of that post.  BUT lets not forget your peoples were invaded and defeated - much like my ancestors in another country.  But as a 5th generation Australian this is my country now as much as yours.

    • MarK says:

      01:25pm | 07/07/11

      I am shocked that my posts is being construed as having racist overtones.

      I am accepting Christian into my country as an Australian. I certainly don’t want to exclude him because of any reason and I do not want him to feel the need to thank my ancestors that were Australian for letting him use this country. that would get old and onerous quickly. Lose its validity in repetition and prove nothing.

      I am merely being polite and reminding him that it is not necessary for him to fell different to me or my ancestors.

      I am an Australian. That is all. I feel no need to thank anyone for letting me or my ancestors use this country.

      That is divisive.

      That is preference determined by race or cultural subsets hence it is racist.

      Me -  I am the modicum of fairness.

      All I ask is that he, and all of us, use the bins. Littering is bad mkay.

    • Juliar is a liar says:

      02:07pm | 07/07/11

      Market base price

      Of course there is a market,the government say “pay me $20” and you pay the government $20, the government then employ someone to collect the $20, another person to spend the $20, then advertise on tv to show us, how great their $20 market is, then give $4 to a poor person, so that person will vote ALP at the next election

      The bribery market is working great

    • John the Zombie says:

      02:15pm | 07/07/11

      umm Rover of North Cooma christian didnt provide any links. The link provided show Gillard saying the line of “there will be no carbon tax” and also if she did not lie then why did she apologise. Please answer this. first why did she say the line “there will be no carbon tax” and socondly why did she then apologise for it.

      Also note her line about been forced into a corner with the Greens is a lie as well as labor had already gotten into bed with them by giving them there votes. So she actaully knew what she was in for.

      Also note there are many other groups who built this country not just white christian and also what do you think the Japanese would of done to the Aboriginal population when they got here in WW2. Read about what they did to other native groups. Have a look at how they mass murdered ppl in PNG and also as they retreated from Islands they was conquered the killing of the natives there. You do know that the small Islands near the US were taken by the Japanese and then they retreated and the natives on the Islands were never seen again.

    • Kevin says:

      02:46pm | 07/07/11

      @MarK
      There goes another one.
      I guess if you insult, denigrate, belittle and mock anyone who doesn’t agree with you, eventually you’ll run out of people who want to play with you.

    • Aitch B says:

      06:59am | 07/07/11

      Meh….. just some Brown/Gillard grandstanding - nothing more.

      I’d bet London to a brick that the bill that’s finally introduced to parliament differs wildly from what is presented on Sunday!

    • ZSRenn says:

      07:32am | 07/07/11

      I’m with Aitch and I’ll take some of that action.

    • Dave says:

      09:17am | 07/07/11

      The proof is already out there. They say they will not add the CO2 tax to your petrol, BUT they will be adding the CO2 take to its producers and the means of delivery (trucks). Thus the price will go up. Then to cap of the lie, the greens have already indicated that they intend to force Labor to increase the existing tax on petrol by the equivalent amount that the CO2 would have raised it. Thus our we will have our petrol taxed for CO2 at least three times. So Juliar, you can not stop lying, can you.

    • Harquebus says:

      10:02am | 07/07/11

      What was is that Peter Garrett once said? “Oh, don’t worry about that. Once we get in we will change all that.”

    • John the Zombie says:

      04:47pm | 07/07/11

      Actually the govt has already stated the full bill will not be presented as there is still a little negotiation happening for what is described as smal things.

      Now the tax went from compensating 90% to 70% and from the 1000 top polluters to 500 top polluters.

    • Super D says:

      07:30am | 07/07/11

      If the nation’s journalists had any ticker they’d simply refuse en masse to participate in this charade

    • Knemon says:

      08:29am | 07/07/11

      @ Super D - You might want to keep your head firmly in the sand but there are many other people that are keen to see the details. The job of a journalist is to relay that message to the people.

    • MarK says:

      09:30am | 07/07/11

      Wish they would relay the message then instead of making decisions like the “science is in” or letting their own bias rule their “reporting”.

    • Harquebus says:

      10:05am | 07/07/11

      Let’s use the word courage.

    • Super D says:

      10:32am | 07/07/11

      @Knemon - why should journalists get the details ahead of everyone else?  This is just an exercise in spin to try and get the Government something less than a totally hostile initial response.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      10:47am | 07/07/11

      This just proves that journos will complain about anything. Not enough information, too much information. Not enough time to digest complex policy announcements before asking questions, no need for a lock-up to give them time. Bunch of whingers and typical of Canberra.

    • non-warmist says:

      05:21pm | 07/07/11

      @VVS….Just read your objection to the words “gay boy” as being homophobic?  Isn’t this exactly what many young males are?  Other terms are insulting -  but why “gay boy”?  How is it vulgar?  Lots of vulgarity going on, but not these two words.

      The Great Lie:  “There Will Be No Carbon Tax”  J. Gillard

    • Against the Man says:

      07:36am | 07/07/11

      Did anyone see Bob Brown on the news yesterday? All smug and gloating about his new power. Well Gilltard has no control and is just his sock puppet. Maybe we should call it the carbon tax debacle to tie with other great ALP debacles like the BER, home insulation project, Malaysian solution, health care no-reform etc. The ALP need to seek help soon or the party and its idiotic supporters will be all but finished. smile

      Oh and people who believe the carbon tax will save our climate future for our children really need to seek help for their delusions. smile

      The wonderful Gilltard lies:
      http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/tax-will-keep-going-up-no-matter-what-pm-says/story-e6frfhqf-1226089354595

    • Unionist says:

      08:33am | 07/07/11

      You have to stop just reading news limited newspapers and believing everything you read in them. Especially the story about “I gave birth to a two headed fish, says Peruvian mother of six”. Perhaps try some Mills and Boons it won’t do ya head in as much and make you a lil less anal-retentive to boot…. happy even. On the other hand maybe retentive is best for you coz you might be hit with a carbon tax if you let it all out.

    • VVS says:

      08:52am | 07/07/11

      Since when are commentors allowed to publish such vulgar, homophobic comments on here?

      I take offence to Unionist’s use of the disgusting term “gayboy”. Go back to the rock you crawled out of.

      Homophobe.

    • Michael says:

      09:05am | 07/07/11

      Another quality response from the left, well done Unionist, if you are representative of people that can be found in the unions and on the left of the divide, Australia has nothing to fear from outside our own borders.

    • NicoleG says:

      09:08am | 07/07/11

      VVS, please allow me to introduce Rob r Charteris. Plug the name in to google. You’ll then have an idea of the sort of person he is. Apologies in advance.

    • AdamC says:

      09:24am | 07/07/11

      NicoleG, is that where Rob r Charteris went? What is it with left-wing Punchers and their myriad pseudonyms!

    • Elphaba says:

      09:24am | 07/07/11

      Agreed, Unionist can attack ATM’s opinion all he wants, but to preface his illogical rant with ‘gayboy’ is offensive.

    • jb says:

      09:32am | 07/07/11

      unionist, what powers that brain of yours???
      Carbon?
      You really should apologize for that.
      Just goes to show who the real deniers are hey…

    • Damocles says:

      09:33am | 07/07/11

      “Unionist” you are a trolling stooge aren’t you? Latest desperate try by a lying joke of a “government” to stick their rusted on flunkies into any media to spread their odious propaganda. Well, we’re not falling for it buddy. Hit the road, if you can afford the price of petrol!
      Labor are doomed! Nothing they do will save them. Even your purile, bigotted comments will not dent the determination of the Australian people to kick this Labor/Green/Independent farce out on their arse!! Suck it up baby!!

    • Against the Man says:

      09:42am | 07/07/11

      Guys, the Unionist has to resort to calling me names because he can’t counteract my points, so through sheer desperation he does what he does best. I’m not bothered because I know that I’ve got the Gilltard/ALP movement where it hurts which is why people like the Unionist are unhappy.

      Carbon tax - Fail
      Malaysian solution - Fail
      http://au.news.yahoo.com/latest/a/-/latest/9796982/refugee-deal-facing-second-high-court-test/
      ALP - Fail

      Come on Unionist is that the best counteract you have? smile
      I win again bad boy, you and your mates have had a couple of weeks of loses and beat downs here on the Punch. How many of you losers is it going to take to bring me down? HaHaHaHaHa

    • The Badger says:

      09:53am | 07/07/11

      The only point you have is on the top of your head.
      Which is a pretty good effort especially considering how hard it is to make a point out of bile.
      carry on I’m seriously enjoying this.

    • Harquebus says:

      10:08am | 07/07/11

      Bob Brown can take all the rope he needs. Might as well, there’s nothing we can do about it anyway.

    • Lady from Sydney says:

      10:51am | 07/07/11

      NicoleG, Rob R Charteris morphed into John A Neve who morphed into Seano who currently has morphed into the Unionist. They all make an apppearance to back themselves up when corned in an argument and they all have a very similar nasty vibe. It isn’t rocket science that they are postings by the same nut job who hates to concede a point. Granted ATM is rather rough at times, he has been the main source of attacks because he keeps repeating and reminding about the same, continues failures.

      But the desperate vibe means that the Gillard backing camp is running out of Ammo.

      Should be interesting to see how this develops!

    • Kevin says:

      11:03am | 07/07/11

      Shame on Unionist for the “gay boy” remark.  The standards of some of the comments on the Punch leave a lot to be desired and both sides of the political debate are guilty.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      11:08am | 07/07/11

      Gayboy is offensive, but it’s a bit rich of AtM with his puerile “Gilltard” to complain about someone calling him names.
      Grow up.

    • Anthony Sharwood

      Anthony Sharwood says:

      11:13am | 07/07/11

      Just in case this thread stops making sense, that’s a good pickup VVS and others. Deleted now

    • Seano says:

      11:24am | 07/07/11

      @Lady from sockpuppet land….

      “NicoleG, Rob R Charteris morphed into John A Neve who morphed into Seano who currently has morphed into the Unionist. “

      Ah no….I only post under Seano and that’s it. I know it’s convienent for trolls to try and accuse others of the same tactics that they use but….no what’s the point. If your arguments can’t stand alone then they’re not worth backing up with manufactured support.

      Your defence of ATM as a noble truth teller giving his perchant for personal attacks and sock puppetry is laughable.

      BTW. NicoleG was ripping me a new one the other day and supporting ATM at the same time so linking me to her is well just silly.

      I also don’t support the tactics of “unionist” any more that I do ATM’s they’re just as bad as each other. Calling someone “Gayboy” in lieu of actual debate is just as moronic as calling someone “Fat”.

      Time for you and the trolls (including unionist) to grow up.

    • Against the Man says:

      11:59am | 07/07/11

      Very interesting comments. I’m ignoring the Seano one because he equates intelligence with bullying, interesting to note others have taken him to task recently, well done. Lady from sydney - yup, you’re not the only one who has spotted the similarities in some of the same multiple poster but you have to know that boarderline personality disorder isn’t something to make fun of. Rover - the Gilltard name/comment is my freedom in this free country to call the PM what I want. Are we in Singapore suddenly? So I’ll call her by her proper name when she starts doing right by our country, but don’t hold your breath.

      I’m on side with the majority view point on the Punch and the polls are on my side too. So I’m as happy as…....punch. The name calling without counter points is well…...pointless. The ALP losers and pseudo losers need to grow up and stop crying and running home to mummy or playing the I vote Lib card or cry bully everytime they get cornered by their own stupidity. You want to take down against the man then be brave and fight with counter arguments. Show me the health care reforms, show me the solution in the malaysian solution, show me the carbon tax that ACTUALLY saves the planet, till than it is all the same smoke and mirrors BS that isn’t fooling anyone.

      smile Another sweet victory. This really is too easy!

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      12:11pm | 07/07/11

      Oh yes, AtM, you totally won that argument. And the refs lost the match for NSW.

    • Michael says:

      12:16pm | 07/07/11

      Seano, in the interests of honesty and accountability i must mention that you have suggested that i am one of ATM’s sock puppets, which of course is nonsense.

      You have done what you accuse sock puppet lady of doing, suggesting that posters who’s opinions oppose your own are in fact trolls or sock puppets.

    • Unionist says:

      01:04pm | 07/07/11

      I see Nicole has been trying to link me with Rob r Charteris, I’ve just ignored that until now. Sorry to burst your bubble there sweetheart…. try again!

      Actually before it was deleted it said “Gay boy” not “gayboy” nothing wrong with the word gay, unless perhaps the problem is really deep down inside yourselves. It amazes me how you right-wing types get all uppity when get your own medicine back.

    • Seano says:

      01:06pm | 07/07/11

      @Michael - if you have been mixed up with one of ATM’s many sock puppets then I apologise.

      But when the bloke has so many sock puppets and you have a fairly generic handle it is a simple mistake to make.

      But let’s not miss the real point here, claims I have used sock puppets when they have to pretend that I’ve also been posting as conservatives are not only completely laughable but clearly the tactic of trolls.

      And we all know who the biggest troll on this site is.

      And I will repeat because you may have missed it, I think unionist needs to pull his head in every bit as much as ATM does.

      @ATM - you don’t seem to be “ignoring” me though.

      BTW the other day you accused me of being a poster who has not only been around for long awhile but is also another conservative (@Damian Parkhill).

      Your comments on sock puppetry are about as logical as your complaints over name calling.

    • NicoleG says:

      01:30pm | 07/07/11

      Sorry Rob, you can be picked a mile away. Same bile, different handle. I’m not the only one who’s picked it. Fade away you insipid little twerp.

      And for the record, not once have I ever seen Seano spit that type of bile. Ever.

    • John says:

      01:36pm | 07/07/11

      Note to Seano - if someone disagrees with you and your opinion on individual matters it does not mean that they are a “troll” or another contributor’s “sock puppet”. It means that they are trying to have a conversation that you are clearly too immature to engage in, as evidenced by your ongoing performance.

      Pro Tip - Lady from Sydney was talking TO NicoleG as evidenced by her employment of that revolutionary tool of grammar - the comma! I doubt she was in any way linking NicoleG to the other drones. Just silly alright.

    • Unionist says:

      01:46pm | 07/07/11

      NicoleG says:01:30pm; I bet you believe in conspiracy theories too. Hey whatever floats your boat.

    • Against the Man says:

      01:58pm | 07/07/11

      @ Unionist - Dude like your alter ego, you have issues, sigh…....you just want to pick a fight? But you got delected, how sad and shameful. wink

      And for those childish idiots who claim to be teachers (well unemployed teachers anyway because those people are never at work, pathetic in real life too huh?) but can’t deal with ‘bullies’ I suggest you all read all the comments and than sit in that little minority corner of the room while your mummy gets your din-din ready smile

      http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/04/27/essential-the-labor-party-trashing-its-brand-since-2009/
      Amazing 72% of sock puppets, what a jump in the sock puppet population. I guess some amazing teacher in Australia must be ‘smarter’ than the large majority of this country from trade workers, doctors, lawyers, nurses, professors, accountants etc He thinks he knows all, but like a coward he gives in under pressure. And others have called him on his BS, so he tries and tries but like all good losers he just keeps on losing because he refuses to seek help. Say a pray for this sad sack folks smile

    • therealjohn says:

      02:08pm | 07/07/11

      john
      Yes, Atm is a real good debater and is trying to have a conversation that you are clearly too immature to engage in”
      Typical exchange.
      Seano says:    03:56pm | 24/06/11
      Following Hockey on Twitter, the first few appearances by cardboard cutout Kev. were amusing. By afternoon they’d become a bit ho hum and by about midnight they’d really done it to death. Obviously some of the LNP are fans of the Chaser’s style even if they apparently don’t get comedy.

      Against the Man in the spirit of debate says:
      05:41pm | 24/06/11
      Seano is angry because we all make him look foolish. Seano is a teacher but he don’t know how to attack the issues because he is brainwashed ALP loser, he rather call you names than run and hide! Thanks for making me look good Seano, you set yourself up for a fall every time fat boy.
      Still haven’t explained the carbon tax to us fat boy!

      Wonderful debater that Atm
      Whacko is more like it and you are a Sockpuppet at worst and a troll at best.

    • John says:

      02:22pm | 07/07/11

      @Therealjohn, he doesn’t only do it to Against the Man. He is constantly caught up in these pathetic exchanges and the common denominator is? If anyone disagrees with anything he says they are immediately labelled a troll or a sockpuppet. I shall look forward to the same being done to me.

    • Unionist says:

      02:22pm | 07/07/11

      Against the Man says:01:58pm; “@ Unionist - Dude like your alter ego, you have issues, sigh…....you just want to pick a fight? But you got delected, how sad and shameful. “

      Yes the first two words were deleted/edited from that post. Interestingly they left everything else. Perhaps the editor agreed with me wants you to consider expanding your reading material.

    • Kevin says:

      02:39pm | 07/07/11

      I can’t read a post from Against the Man without picturing the Kenny Powers character from “Eastbound & Down”.
      Here are some classics:
      “I’m not bothered because I know that I’ve got the Gilltard/ALP movement where it hurts”
      “You want to take down against the man then be brave and fight with counter arguments.”
      Keep on posting AtM.

    • Unionist says:

      02:54pm | 07/07/11

      therealjohn says:02:08pm; “Wonderful debater that Atm Whacko is more like it and you are a Sockpuppet at worst and a troll at best.”

      You got that right!!! and It wonders why I never reply to any of it’s spin filled arguements. One just cant be bothered.

    • Seano says:

      03:34pm | 07/07/11

      @John

      1. I saw the comma, clearly the comment could have been read either way. I see it suits your purposes here to make a federal case of it.

      2. I call people who attack me personally or post deliberately inflammatory statements trolls. You cannot honestly say I’ve called someone a troll just because I’ve disagreed with their arguments or they’ve disagreed with mine. Not honestly.

      3. People who follow me about posting personal attacks referring to things I’ve said previously (especially personal ones) and using almost identical language are mostly coming from a few sources.

      I can tell you now I don’t have legions of fans out recording everything I have to say for future hate attacks. How do I know that? Because most, intelligent, sane people don’t give a shit. I’m just a bloke with an opinion on a blog and therefore no more important than anyone else. So the sources of these attacks are few, and they’re deranged and it’s usually pretty obvious when they are doing it and who they are (see my reasonable comment followed by an atypical ATM personal attack as provided by @therealjohn for an example of deranged).

      I’m not sure why not accepting weaker arguments or refusing to be bullied upsets these people so. Perhaps it’s that Im willing to return serve and like most bullies they don’t like a smack in the mouth. I don’t really care, most of them are loons.

      Thanks to NicoleG and therealjohn for the support.

    • TimB says:

      05:53pm | 07/07/11

      Seanno, speaking for myself, I don’t give a shit what you do to me. What I object to is the hypocricy you display regularly, and the cowardly tactics you frequently employ to avoid arguments you know you can’t counter.
      I don’t complain about the fact that you insult me. I complain about the fact that you do it, and then use the insults I serve *you* as an excuse to avoid debate.

      You can try and paint yourself as some poor victimised entity all you like, you and I both know that it’s far from true. ATM might use some unsavoury tactics when dealing with you, but that doesn’t make you guilt free, not by a long shot.

    • melle says:

      06:57pm | 07/07/11

      Seano’s responses to me have been polite and pleasant, even though he strongly disagreed with my views.  There’s a lot of ugly stuff here, but it doesn’t come from Seano.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:57pm | 07/07/11

      ATM’s comment + Unionist prejudice = some great comments

      HaHaHaHa this is a great thread, firstly Unionist why so defensive about being deleted? You think if the editor agrees with your comment that bothers me? smile What an ego must be overcompensation for other inadequacies.

      Next I never claim to be some innocent angel nor have I accused anyone of bullying me. I’ve only always asked for substantiation, seriously you think the carbon tax or Gilltard is so great tell me why, explain the poll numbers. Come on guys Swany compensating coal miners, if I wasn’t confused before I am now.

      I’m guilty of a few pot shots at some people but hey I give as good as I get and I’m not going to call anyone a bully, even the unionist is entitled to his view (it is wrong but still…..), and I’m just waiting for some of my ‘buddies’ to show me what this government is doing right. You have free speech use it guys!

      But say what you will, wouldn’t change anything, and I’m sane enough to let someone else have the last word unlike some unstable teachers roaming these forums. Won’t someone think of the students smile

    • non-warmist says:

      07:43pm | 07/07/11

      @Kevin,  AtM’s comments are sometimes amusing -  but not all the time.  No need to put your favourites up on display again,  okay?
      He might take you on as his apprentice.

      The Huge Lie:  There Will Be No Carbon Tax -  J. Gillard

    • graham says:

      09:45pm | 07/07/11

      ATM.. What a foolish person you are, missing out on the opportunity to outline your idol’s policy on carbon tax/pollution control/protection for our children’s future/ and associated problems. Perhaps when you get over your obsession with your own need to be recognised as an “expert”
      in all things environmental you may come back to educate us. Until then please keep your uneducated ramblings to yourself, if for no other reason than that our children might read your garbage and be misled.
      Abbott and you are similarly led. By idiocy. Get treatment, and become an addition to our society, rather than a sad reduction.

    • Seano says:

      11:37pm | 07/07/11

      @TimB - You spit venom and then complain when it is returned.

      You defend trolls for posting personal attacks.

      And you wonder the occasional “arguments” you pepper your attacks with get ignored?

    • Against the Man says:

      06:43am | 08/07/11

      @ graham - wait a minute. Can you outline the government’s carbon tax policy? Easy to turn the tables on me but in all reality it is the government that leads needs to be held accountable.

      Like your hero Gilltard it is all about avoiding the hard questions. Tell me how is that Malaysian solution going? And can you give me that extensive list of significant achievements that the ALP has had since ‘07?

      I’ll be waiting for your answers or will you duck and hide like that sad coward of a teacher that roams these forums. smile

    • TimB says:

      06:46am | 08/07/11

      No Seano, we both spit venom at each other. But *you’re* the only one who uses it as an excuse to avoid debate.

      Insult me all you like. Just don’t take your bullshit holier-than-thou attitude with me, or anyone else.

      Everything you complain about other people doing, you’re guilty of yourself. But you constantly take the line ‘it’s not me, it’s all them!’ You’re utterly incapable of taking responsibility for your own actions and instead blame them on everyone else. This is the attitude of a child.

      Multiple people (and real people, not ‘sockpuppets’) have called you on it time and time again. And each and every time, you have an excuse, or write those people off as “trolls”. In your own eyes you are perfect and can do no wrong. Nothing could be further from the truth.

      But I’ve been over this again and again. One day it may sink into your brain. But I sense today is not that day. Enjoy your compulsive need to have the last word.

    • John A Neve says:

      07:29am | 08/07/11

      Sadly, some of the threads on Punch are like Day’s Of Our Lives.
      The same old claptrap, some of you really need to take a good look at your selves.
      But thanks for the giggle.

    • Seano says:

      08:33am | 08/07/11

      @TimB - “No Seano, we both spit venom at each other.”

      Ah no. I don’t read your posts or reply to your posts. I’m not interested in you or anything you have to say. Life is too short for your lack of insight.

      I read and respond to your replies to me and your trolling personal attacks.

      You have never won a debate with me and you’ve never won a slanging match either. You have neither the wit nor the intellect.

      You rarely even attempt debate, so there’s never any attempt to run from your “debate” it doesn’t exist. This is a figment of your fetid imagination.

      You lead with personal attacks and then as always burst into tears like the child you are when it’s returned. Speaking of which, it was I who first pointed out your joke stealing and your childish behaviour. I guess mimicry is a form of flattery but really you should be embarrassed.

      I get the last word because apparently you have nothing to offer other beyond sucking up to ultra conservatives and defending trolls.

      Oh and of course I get the last word because I’m right. When it comes to the two of us I always am.

    • TimB says:

      09:17am | 08/07/11

      I would just like to point out for the record to everyone here, Seano’s previous stance on “insults”.

      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/new-years-resolutions-wed-all-like-to-see/#comment-295709

      His response to being called on his “constant, patronising name-calling and other juvenile rubbish”?

      Seano says: “It’s called wit, google is your friend.”

      Of course these days he claims insults are “bullying”, not “wit” and he’s only returning fire. Utter bullshit of course, but that doesn’t stop him from getting on his high horse.

      I’m out. Anyone who wants to see the true Seano can click on that link for themselves.

    • Seano says:

      10:48am | 08/07/11

      As i’ve said previously I’m always happy to return your insults.

      I’m not about to be bullied by the likes of you.

    • TimB says:

      10:57am | 08/07/11

      “Bullying” when others do it to him, “wit” when he starts it and does it to others.

      Classic Seano victim mentality and hypocricy.

    • Seano says:

      11:09am | 08/07/11

      BTW Timmy, speaking of honesty. How about you be honest for a change and go back and count up the amount of times you’ve posted an unprompted, off topic and purely personal attack directed at me.

      Be honest if you can.

      You’re like the neighbour who throws shit over the fence for weeks.

      Who then knocks on the door for chat and gets offended when told to go F*** himself.

      Timmy, not smart, not honest.

    • TimB says:

      11:19am | 08/07/11

      Seano, you get attacked because you’re a condescending arrogant jerk, not because you’re a paragon of innocence. You deserve everything you get thrown at you. To turn around and cry “bully!” like a cowardly child doesn’t change that.

    • non-warmist says:

      01:26pm | 08/07/11

      It appears Seano is not as innocent and he has claimed

    • Seano says:

      01:56pm | 08/07/11

      @non-whatever - I’ve never claimed to be innocent. What part of happy to return insults didn’t you get?

      @TimB - You admit you’re happy to launch and support personal attacks purely out of spite.

      How aptly you sum up yourself and your whole debating style.

    • Flexo says:

      02:02pm | 08/07/11

      Seano is as nasty as they get, he is a multiple poster under various names and he is the sort of low life scum that can’t bear to be proven wrong. He is an ALP puppy that knows how to bark the party line!

    • Seano says:

      02:25pm | 08/07/11

      @AtM/Flexo - I’ve been quite critical of tha ALP at times, most notably in NSW. But dont let the truth get in the way of your irrational hate.

      Besides I thought you were ignoring me…

    • non-warmist says:

      02:36pm | 08/07/11

      @Against the Man must be buckling under the weight of replies.  Here’s another - 
      @Seano, By your condescending reply - and a quite wilful refusal to key in my full moniker -  you have demonstrated that TimB is right -  holier than thou
      I now allow you the last word…..........................

    • Seano says:

      03:12pm | 08/07/11

      @non-whatever - judging by your handle you’re not interested in facts so I guess it’s apt I get the last word.

      Champ if the best challenge to my arguments that you can put up is that I’m condescending then you really haven’t got much. Therefore any condescension has been well earned. No tears now.

      Keep defending bullies and trolls… That seems about your speed…

    • TimB says:

      03:27pm | 08/07/11

      ” I’ve never claimed to be innocent. What part of happy to return insults didn’t you get?”

      And what part of did ‘“wit” when he starts it’ did you fail to understand?

      Not all of your insults are “return fire” as you term them. You are not some poor innocent victim fighting back. You are quite frequently an instigator, simply because you cannot handle your opinions being challenged.

      “@TimB - You admit you’re happy to launch and support personal attacks purely out of spite.”

      Not spite. But because you’re a jerk and you deserve it for the behaviour you display here on a regular basis.  I have little tolerance for unpleasant people such as yourself. So I’m simply (as you term it), “returning fire”.

      Or are you the only one who’s allowed to do that?

      At the end of the day, insults are part of the online blogging game. It’d be nice if they wern’t, but with strong opinions flying around it’s going to happen. But through it all, me, ATM, MarK, Badger, Perse, any number of dozens of regular commentators either ignore it or give as good as we get. Either way we deal with it and move on.

      But not you. You are the *only* one who screams about bullying and persecution. The only one who constantly plays the victim card. The only one who uses it to escape arguments he knows he cannot win.

      You’re pathetic and a coward.

    • Seano says:

      04:46pm | 08/07/11

      @Timmy - How can I start it? I don’t follow you around. You follow me.

      Tsk Tsk honesty is always such a challenge for you.

      And as I’ve said before because you’re challenged in other areas….

      “You’re like the neighbour who throws shit over the fence for weeks.

      Who then knocks on the door for chat and gets offended when told to go F*** himself.

      Timmy, not smart, not honest. “.

      You don’t get to post personal attack after personal attack and then decide “hey I wont be a complete prick for just one post and actually challenge the guy’s arguments”. You’d have to be an idiot to think you could…oh wait.


      BTW. You seem incredibly brave with your admitted personal attacks…from behind your keyboard

    • TimB says:

      06:15pm | 08/07/11

      And to continue your analogy, you’re the neighbour who leaves his dog off the leash, lets it bark all night & crap all over your neighbours lawn and then wonders why said neighbour is throwing it back over the fence.

      *You* started this Seano. I originally challenged your arguments. You avoided them right from the start. Then you followed it up with arrogant condescension and childish name calling. And all because you are *mentally incapable* of handling people who challenge your opinion, and by extension those who make you look stupid.

      Then when I “return fire” on later threads, you try to rewrite history and claim persecution, just like the neighbour with the shitty dog. You’re a joke.

      Keep trying to play the victim though. It fools no-one.

    • non-warmist/Sylvie says:

      06:40pm | 08/07/11

      @Seano, You say “Keep defending bullies….....that seems about your speed.”  Can’t let that pass. 
      My speed:
      I have defended you, Seano.  You’ll remember -  not a good night for you….... ” ‘Seek help’ is very funny. Not sure why, it just is. Can understand wanting to protect the rights to it.”
      non-warmist is my No Carbon Tax moniker. Been active on the Monckton piece today.  Don’t think I did much good for the cause.  But….. time to quit this “forum” stuff.   

      It was the “champ”  that did it.

    • Seano says:

      06:45pm | 08/07/11

      @Timmy - That would be a great analogy if it were true…or was funny ....or even made sense.

      But alas, wit, some of us have it and some of us are you.

      What arguments are you “challenging” genius? I’m defending my right to an opinion without constantly being personally attacked in lieu of debate.

      And you’ve basically said I deserve everything I get because you hate me…you’re a class act Timmy.

      Timmy, not smart, not honest, defender of trolls and trolling, right wing lickspittle…..nice resume, all class.

      PS. I thought you were out of here? Oh that’s right…not honest.

    • Seano says:

      07:28pm | 08/07/11

      @non-warmist

      What do you expect me to say.

      Any sensible person can see that ATM is a troll and a keyboard bully (and quite likely clinically insane considering his rants and use of sock puppets).

      Timmy not only supports trolls but an admitted fair game policy on me because he hates me. How reasonable is that? Oh but apparently no matter how many personal attacks Timmy launches or supports when he wants to “debate” I’m supposed to play all nicey nice.

      Trolls and bullies both and defending that is not a good look.

    • non-warmist/Sylvie says:

      07:58pm | 08/07/11

      Okay, Seano.  I’ll take that as a sort of apology.  Now you best get on over to the Albanese piece -  you’ve got work to do there.  AtM is getting over-excited.
      S.

    • Seano says:

      08:54pm | 08/07/11

      Fair enough.

      Yes ATM’s being the “better man” didn’t last long…

    • Chrissy says:

      09:05pm | 08/07/11

      Unionist, i dont care if you’re a homophobe, or whatever. But i can tell you, that you are but one of the dumbshit minority who thinks a taxing 20 million aussies will save the planet from natural climate change…....

    • Seano says:

      10:39pm | 08/07/11

      @Chrissy - I agree, Unionists use of a homophobic slur was poor form.

      With regard to the carbon tax, it’s not actually at tax on 20 million Aussies, it’s a tax on the 1000 biggest polluters. There will be compensation for the worst affected for costs passed on by these businesses.

      Whilst pollution will be reduced the main point of the measure is to reduce the damage we are doing to the environment, not redress the damage already done.

    • Fiddler says:

      07:44am | 07/07/11

      Hmm….. four hours stuck in a room with Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan and Greg Combet. At least the euthanasia debate will start back up

    • Deepthinker says:

      08:26am | 07/07/11

      I agree with you Fiddler, just one minute of that voice, one minute of that fool and one minute of that union puppet would be more than enough, I wouldn’t be able to stand all the charisma locked up , the worst partis ,I don’t think they will provide toilets which will be needed desparately by any sane people in the room.

    • Paul C says:

      08:34am | 07/07/11

      Excellent comment, I’d rather pull my teeth out with pilers than listen to that trio of puppets.  Did Gillard need special training to get that monotone drone?

    • Thomas Anderson says:

      08:50am | 07/07/11

      LOL Julia undoubtedly took some hypnotising lessons, although the trance she puts you in is very unpleasant.

    • Ren says:

      09:14am | 07/07/11

      Ok that made me LOL.

    • Harquebus says:

      10:09am | 07/07/11

      I think they play, I’ll show you mine if you show me yours.

    • iansand says:

      08:14am | 07/07/11

      I have a cunning plan.  Refuse, all of you, to enter the lockup.

    • MarK says:

      09:36am | 07/07/11

      I have a cunninger plan.

      Let parliament sit for an extra week jgo.

      My plan is just the bestest ever eh sanderson.

    • Harquebus says:

      10:21am | 07/07/11

      That would be good to see.

    • dovif says:

      08:15am | 07/07/11

      I heard that Wayne Swann said yesterday that no jobs would be lost in the Coal-Power sector and in fact jobs are “suppose” to grow in the sector.

      So what he is saying in that he expect that we will have more Coal-fire plant in 10 years then we have now, and they will emitt more CO2 then they are doing now. If that is the case, why are we bothering with a Carbon Tax or ETS

      Quite simply, a Carbon Tax or ETS is there to stop us using as much Electricity, so if you are in an industry that relies on coal electricity, refigeration, heavy machinery, or a sector that uses lots of electricity. The Carbon tax is there to try to reduce your use.

      Job will definitely be lost, as Bob Brown said, he wants noa mining of coal in 10 years, and he is the co-author of the Carbon tax

    • MarK says:

      10:48am | 07/07/11

      No he is postulating if you add a tax or impost to an industry it will grow and add to employment. That is your treasurer.

    • watty says:

      08:18am | 07/07/11

      OK Mr Kenny Please ask just one question.

      Why is the Government totally ignoring the findings of the Productivity Commission’s damning report on the high cost of subsidising “renewable energy sources” and the warning that these costs will increase if a carbon tax is applied?

    • Jane says:

      08:32am | 07/07/11

      No matter how much she fluffs up her carbon tax with her compensation annonuncement on Sunday, at the end of the day she lied to the electorate about it. That’s what her problem is.

    • AJ says:

      09:22am | 07/07/11

      Spot on Jane

    • Harquebus says:

      10:17am | 07/07/11

      Yep. She can sell as hard as she want’s, it won’t make a scrap of difference. I am having a good laugh though.

    • Frank says:

      12:00pm | 07/07/11

      oh get over it, we all knew she was going to put a “Price on CARBON” who gives to hoots if she said that there wouldnt be a Carbon Tax, it doesnt matter…you know what the first Hung Parliament in what 60 years and a Green in the House of Reps will mean that whatever anyone said in the Election quesitonable…the Independants gave control along with the Greens to Labor and decided that taking into consideration the ‘new paradigm’ a Citizen’s Assembly was a bad idea and a Carbon Tax was more ideal, who cares SHIT HAPPENS!! and again as stated elsewhere a Democracy does not mean you keep having elections until you get the result you want…

    • Matt says:

      12:35pm | 07/07/11

      oh give it up Frank, she campaigned on” there would be no carbon tax under a Government I lead”
      She then broke that promise with the electorate and did a backroom deal with Bob Brown and his cronies to get their support so she could be PM. That backroom deal was a carbon tax!
      She is dishonest, tricky and power hungry. Time you got over it mate..

    • Haitch says:

      08:36am | 07/07/11

      If this woman had a scintilla of credibility left, this charade marks the extinguishment of the last vestige.
      To make a Ministerial statement to the House was once an opportunity no Minister would pass up lightly. It gives untramelled exposure and awards gravitas. Gillard has snubbed the Parliament and the people on an issue with immense consequences for the common wealth.

    • fairsfair says:

      09:25am | 07/07/11

      Fair point Haitch. Admittedly, I have been trying to ignore the old CT for the past couple of weeks, but I have never thought of it that way before.

      Why isn’t she announcing perhaps the most contentious piece of policy in Australia’s modern history in Parliament? I never thought I’d say it, but I have a small piece of respect for ch7 and ch9 for refusing to be a part of this fanfare.

      This isn’t showbiz toots - its reality. Use parliament for what it is for.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      11:37am | 07/07/11

      Of course the Howard government respected the people’s house and announced everything via Ministerial statement.
      Um, no. The GST package was released at a press conference on August 13, 1998, in a non-sitting week.
      The Workchoices package was announced at a press conference on October 9, 2005, in a non-sitting week. After a lock-up briefing for employers.
      They’re pretty big announcements, neither of which merited a Ministerial statement.

    • Anubis says:

      01:33pm | 07/07/11

      @ Rover - I could not give a stuff about what Howard (non-core promises) said or did. My concern is with this current liar that is hell bent on imposing a Carbon Tax/Price?scheme on the a population that wants nothing to do with it.

      Just days out from the election both her and Swan categorically denied that they would put a carbon tax in place. Something like ‘There will be no carbon tax under a Government I lead”

      Two possible explanations:

      1. She deliberately lied in order to get the votes necessary to be elected (knowing full well the voting public was skeptical about a carbon tax)

      2. This is not a Government that she leads

      So which is it:

      I vote

      1.  [ X ]    2. [ X ]

      I believe that both scenarios are correct

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      02:04pm | 07/07/11

      Really Anubis? It’s not that you don’t give a stuff what Howard did or didn’t do, you just don’t want to read anything that challenges the hypocrisy of the Liberal line that all major announcements should be made as Ministerial statements.

    • NicoleG says:

      02:22pm | 07/07/11

      Hmmm, I see. Gillard lied ‘There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead’ and it’s all John Howards fault. My goodness Rover, thank you for bringing that to our attention. Ooooh that bluddy John Howard. And I do believe it’s all his fault Rudd got knifed in the back too! Don’t ask me how, it just is!

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      03:44pm | 07/07/11

      Nicole, I am not arguing about the lie or blaming John Howard for any of Labor’s problems or failings.

      I am simply pointing out to everyone who is blindly regurgitating the Opposition line that major announcements should be made in the Parliament that that is not what the Coalition did while in government.

    • Christian Real says:

      06:16am | 08/07/11

      Nicole G
      Once again you are wrong,but then like a true Liberal you don’t like admitting that, do you.
      As I stated before Julia Gillard said in an interview the day before the election that “she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term”
      Julia Gillard also went on to say in that same story Nicole G, that ” I don’t rule out the possibility of legislating a Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme,a market-based mechanism”, she said of the next parliament, “I rule out a carbon tax.”
      The story “Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise”, was written by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan on August 20,2010 @ 12.00AM
      Liberals are born liars,misconstrue the truth and take after their hero Mr “Don’t believe everything I say” Abbott.
      Nicole G
      Tony Abbott is only grandstanding by opposing ‘A Carbon Price” just for the sake of opposing something,and everything he has ‘opposed so far has passed through Parliament anyway.
      This Story from “The Age”, on June 7 2011, “Abbott dogged by old carbon comment.”
      “Tony Abbott’s past as a climate change “weather vane” has come back to haunt him - again.”
      “The Opposition Leader has been shown spruiking a carbon tax in an old interview that was aired on Q & A on ABC Television yesterday.”
      “If you want to put a price on carbon,why not just do it with a simple tax?”, Mr Abbott Argues.

    • DG says:

      08:40am | 07/07/11

      This TAX is a simple payback to Bob Brown’s support to keep LABOUR in power.

    • BobM says:

      10:01am | 07/07/11

      Welcome to the party. Did you just work that one out?

    • Coach says:

      11:52am | 07/07/11

      DG it’s a conspiracy!

      But…. Tony Abbott has his own plan to reduce carbon emissions.  He is working with the Greens too!  Quick, we have to tell everyone before it’s too late!

    • Q. says:

      08:43am | 07/07/11

      The only stitch-up I want from now on is a publicised carbon-count of the pollution expended as Gillard travels in carbon fuelled aircraft while “wearing the leather off her shoes” posing around the country, patting people’s heads, stroking their arms and talking about herself and her ambitions. You don’t wear much leather off your shoes fly-driving on taxpayer money!

      Her picture wearing a striped jacket in today’s Telegraph (the one publicising her inappropriate cleavage) is indicative of diminishing dignity of high office. Does our parliament really need the treat of the PM’s cleavage during day-time parliamentary business?
      She and her Green Extremists should be subjected to a carefully recorded carbon-count dossier.from this day forward. We are being preached one set of suggestions for us, and another for Labor and their Green dictators. So let’s please see them get on their bikes.

    • XXXX says:

      09:18am | 07/07/11

      My God Q, are you saying we should keep tabs on the sayers, if that were to happen, we plebs would see they lie and their hypnotised followers would call us names for not listening and believing as they do.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      12:36pm | 07/07/11

      So Prime Ministerial cleavage is wrong, but endless shots of the Opposition Leader’s crotch in budgie smugglers or bike pants is dignified?

    • Q. says:

      02:07pm | 07/07/11

      Rover,
      There’s a time and place for boob and budgie fashion.  And it’s certainly not during working hours amongst business colleagues.
      Breast does not look best in the Telegraph picture taken during working hours in the House of Reps. An intelligent Prime Minister would have far better sense. 
      The male that you compare has occasionally dressed in accordance with standard recreational style, but certainly outside the formal environment of the parliament. As far as I know, lycra and budgie smugglers haven’t yet been photographed occupying the parliamentary Oposition Leader’s chair. The PM’s taste for low-cut blouses during working hours is not a good look, and it does nothing for conventional dignity of the office. I haven’t seen any other lady members of parliament displaying cleavage during working hours.

    • Ben says:

      08:48am | 07/07/11

      Gillard and Co need to be honest for once, and tell the Australian people how it is by saying something like “well, children, I am here to announce to you all that as of 2011 Australia has been wonderfully transformed.  I am proud to say Australia has moved forward, moved forward, (repeated at least once).  I and my fellow Labor politicians proudly announce that Australia is no longer a democracy.  I can confirm to you today that I and my comrades have transformed Australia into a Fascist/Socialist State.  As from today, each of you will be required to apply to your nearest local government office if you wish to travel more than 10 kilometres from your usual residence. This will involve the use of petrol stamps.  Furthermore, if you are addicted to nicotine, under our new regulations, you will be required to apply for permission to smoke, you will need 2 referrals from medical specialists to support your application.  Furthermore, to consume alcohol, you will need a doctor’s certificate to verify that you have an addiction.  Under initiatives by Brother Bob Brown if you wish to consume red meat you will need a referral from a GP to to purchase meat products.  Alternatively, you can consume mung beans and bean sprouts to substitute the protein .  Comrades, we are moving forward and those of you who err from the specified path, will be dealt with accordingly”.

    • BobM says:

      10:25am | 07/07/11

      21 million people died during Mao’s Great Leap Forward. There’s not going to be many people left in Australia after Juliar’s Great Moving Forward - perhaps the Greenies and a few frogs….. Welcome to Bob Browneye’s Utopia.

    • ZSRenn says:

      12:21pm | 07/07/11

      I find this hypocritical of us and we have to start looking in our own back yard rather than condemning China for its mistakes and counting numbers that died during Mao’s Great Leap forward.

      Figures usually range from 100’s of thousands to 100’s of millions. A myriad of books have been written on the subject all hammering Mao for his failure to feed his people.

      Try to find even one attempt at a tally of the number of people who died during the Great Depression. Not a scrap of information. This person died, that person died, but not one person has gone to the trouble to work out the number of deaths due to failed democracy.

    • Paul says:

      08:51am | 07/07/11

      The government wants the press to UNDERSTAND a new policy before reporting on it? Outrageous!

    • Dash says:

      02:23pm | 07/07/11

      Shame the rest of us can’t UNDERSTAND this Socialist policy before we VOTE on it!

    • William says:

      08:55am | 07/07/11

      No amount of compensation or explaining will save this lying, arrogant Prime Minister.

    • Holly says:

      08:56am | 07/07/11

      Oh for goodness sake.  Journalists will be held captive to the government view in a lock up???  Can’t you lot skim read accurately? Have you no analytical nous at all?  How loudly would you be screaming if there was no lock up?

    • RyaN says:

      12:45pm | 07/07/11

      Not loudly at all, what is your point?

    • Anthony G says:

      08:59am | 07/07/11

      Why is it that the lazy smelly drugged up minorities are dictating our futures. Its time Labor stopped this rot and started getting back to the real world. I could handle a labor government that wasn’t dictated by the greens and made to go down this senseless path. Labor needs to cut loose completely from the greens before it is to late.

    • BobC says:

      11:32am | 07/07/11

      Senseless - what a wonderful. and apt, description!!

    • Harquebus says:

      11:53pm | 07/07/11

      “Labor”, “go down”, “Greens”. The Julia Bob show.

    • Jay Santos says:

      09:00am | 07/07/11

      “...Such time to read, absorb and process is crucial…”

      Too bad most journallists - Kenny included - have failed their readers and viewers on this.

      Most importantly they have failed their creed.

      The proselytic rapture of the Fourth Estate over a “Carbon Tax” is almost universal and a disgraceful blight on a once proud profession.

    • Ian says:

      09:01am | 07/07/11

      Her carbon tax announcement is just a reminder of the deception she created to become Prime Minister.

    • Steve C says:

      09:01am | 07/07/11

      Just for the benefit of all concerned, THERE IS NO OFFICIAL SECRETS ACT IN AUSTRALIA!!!  There never has been.  Journos might try to say otherwise in throw-away lines, but it’s a myth.  Yes, you can go up the creek under a whole raft of legislation - but the simple fact is that there is no such thing as an Official Secrets Act.

      Is that clear Mr Kenny??

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      09:10am | 07/07/11

      The only people who should be LOCKED UP are staff of NEWS LTD

      Phone tapping…is criminal ( your UK mates)

      Typical Tabloid Trash

      raspberry

    • MarK says:

      09:46am | 07/07/11

      I agree Drew. Lock them all up. No doubt being employed by someone that has criminals, well not convicted but hell we know they are guilty anyway criminals, in their ranks deserves to ensure your own incarceration.

      Damn you Tory and Ant. And Penbo. Not you Lucy cause I am still crushing on you a lot apologies to your husband (give me a call if things don’t work out /wink)....but I digress.

      All you other New Ltd people off to gaol you go. How could you let a close personal colleague that works for another paper in a different country and time zone do this? I mean finger on the pulse? Asleep at the watch? WTF?

      Bastards….ohhh look a puppy.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      12:40pm | 07/07/11

      I would love to see a Punch piece on the News International phone tapping.

    • Canu Believeswan says:

      09:12am | 07/07/11

      Easy to get into personalities and miss the point. See how much they have committed us to pay in the cancun Fund agreement.  That will wipe the smile off any one’s face, except Lee Rhiannon.
      Yes we all accet that Big Sister ditched her dream team partner to cling on to power.  We were the ones who gave her the chance to porkbarrel windsor & oakshott’s electorate (the Harradine principle). Let’s hope you can’t fool all of the people all of the time.  Unfortunatley we pay an enormous army of propagandists (clever enough even to doctor the spin of spin doctors).
      We all no that the tax on piddling Aussie will do nothing to change the climate; that’s why it’s such a hard sell.
      Branson said it - why go ita lone as a government? UK Cameron enacts it - we will if everyone else does.
      Our lot?  President Brown made me do it!!

    • Intercept says:

      09:13am | 07/07/11

      Joolia pre election “No carbon tax”
      Election time, hung parliment.

      Bob to Joolia “Ill give you prefs if you do a carbon tax”

      Joolia ” Sure thing, I will do anything to get voted in”

      Welcome to democracy folks. Isnt it grand?

    • Frank says:

      12:11pm | 07/07/11

      Welcome to Democracy yes…a Hung Parliament means that one vote can change the playing field….would you prefer to be in Syria where you get shot for protesting???

    • fairsfair says:

      09:14am | 07/07/11

      I dunno Kenny… there is nothing quite like a sandwhich that someone else has made. You just watch your colleagues flock to surplus catering in the tea room when it includes those perfect triangles of random contents. Egg and Lettuce. I can’t be bothered preparing that at home, but I will scratch eyes out if it is the last one left….

      I reckon they do go just for the catering.

      Seriously though, it’d be nice if they actually used the time to prepare some actual questions on the matter. It is clear that the public are not happy with this, so I will fly kick the TV if the questions only surround the actual policy and don’t force the PM to again advise the people why she is going against their wishes. Harry Jenkins won’t make her do it in parliament, so someone has to.

      Mr Kenny, will you and your colleagues do so please?

    • Elphaba says:

      09:27am | 07/07/11

      Well said.  I want to know why petrol emissions are not considered a significant environmental issue and are as such exempt.

      Ooh boy… methinks I’ll be watching Sky News most of the day on Sunday.

    • Fiddler says:

      09:29am | 07/07/11

      I wonder if Julia can make good sandwiches? Doubt it. Someone would have wifed her by now if she did

    • Harquebus says:

      10:14am | 07/07/11

      @Elphaba. Poor people don’t drive cars. Petrol taxes don’t affect them. The new tax has to go on stuff poor people use.

    • Josh says:

      10:24am | 07/07/11

      Fly kick the tv, i would love to see that !!

      Were you thinking about the run up fly kick ala Bruce Lee or the standing jump style fly kick as performed by JCVD?

      The Bruce Lee is always good for maximum dramatic effect (just make sure you screech while flying through the air), however the JCVD is surprisingly underrated and much easier to execute in a confined space.

      Of course you can go with the Jet Li, but that would require the grace of a olympic gymnast and more wires then a Mr Squiggle show

    • fairsfair says:

      11:20am | 07/07/11

      I was thinking Chuck Norris style roundhouse. Good call on the confined space issue though.

      You know I heard somewhere that Carbon pays a detailed compensation package to Chuck Norris, because he allows it to be emitted….

    • Elphaba says:

      11:28am | 07/07/11

      @Harquebus, do you mean the new tax has to go on stuff rich people use? smile

    • Markus says:

      12:07pm | 07/07/11

      I hear the production of monocles and top hats is the leading contributor to world CO2 emissions.

    • PaulB - Newcastle says:

      09:25am | 07/07/11

      Unionist? You are so so biased it is laughable.  Maybe you are Julia’s Dad.
      I was a unionist but have torn up my card mate.  My fees are not going to help the labour party and the greens take my job.

    • Unionist says:

      01:29pm | 07/07/11

      Who me??? naaaaah. Btw as long as you know it isn’t the Unions taking your jobs. Seriously I’m a lil disapointed by the fact you had to do that. The Union will be here if and when you want to sign up again.

    • Harquebus says:

      09:27am | 07/07/11

      I think that every journalist who enters this “lock-up”, ought to be thoroughly ashamed of themselves. It’s no wonder that journalists rate down there with their politician bum buddies.

    • The Badger says:

      09:30am | 07/07/11

      The hand wrenching and anguish from conservatives is a great way to start the day and you can almost hear the squealing of the little conservative piggies of the the NO-position party such is their demeanour.

      This new new paradigm sure is providing many entertaining moments as conservatives across the country thrash about searching for relevance.
      And to think we have years and years of this to look forward to.

      How’s that NO thing working for you?

    • Joel B1 says:

      10:11am | 07/07/11

      If nossy has doubts you know for a fact that Julia Gillard is in way big trouble.

    • MarK says:

      10:43am | 07/07/11

      At 56-44 2PP preferred just fine.

      At Abbott>Gillard in preferred PM stakes awesome.

      At the though of paying a useless tax on a gas essential for life not so good.

      I just smile at the infantile minds of people wanting, begging and needing to pay a tax that will grow and expand over time that achieves nothing. Well nothing good for anything.

      Then again that is the ultimate aim of socialism. Redistribute the wealth.

      Julia did it by stealth and lies with her friend Browm.

      Kudos to her. Pity about the national interest.

      History lasts a long time. I can wait for the tale to be written. Her legacy will be one of abject failure and disgrace. How is that working out for her I wonder?

    • The Badger says:

      11:29am | 07/07/11

      Next time clean the excrement off your crystal ball before you stick your nose on it whilst gazing into the future. Either that, or turn it over and see ““try again later”

      Just loving this conservative squealing. Music to my ears.

    • MarK says:

      03:52pm | 07/07/11

      Does anyone else remember when Badger first started posting. Every 5th post or so contained a point. Usually wrong, badly argued or plainly nade up but a point none the less.

      These days I can’t remember 1 valid point from him.

      Nicole and Anthony is this what he is like in real life? Great out the gate and good for a quick 2 minute chat but then runs out of stuff he is knowledgeable about?

      I am a bit sad actually. I still have hopes that ian might evolve into a worthy adversary deserving of more time and held similar hopes for Badger but I am afraid he is letting me down badly.

    • The Badger says:

      06:31pm | 07/07/11

      Does any one remember when mark really started getting into the compulsive character behaviour disorder thingy and went back into rehab 5 or 6 weeks ago? Three weeks of intensive therapy and woosh, out he comes.
      Some hoped the process would deliver some stability into his life. and sense into his comments.
      At first it seemed possible, but now .... NAH
      Might be time to check back in for some of that hard core therapy.

      Sad state of affairs letting himself and the staff down like that. I’m sure they told him to lay off the Punch.

    • iansand says:

      07:05pm | 07/07/11

      Help is at hand: 6584 1310.  Maybe he has it on speed dial.

    • NicoleG says:

      07:19pm | 07/07/11

      MarK, he’s a shit load worse!

      As I’ve said to you before Badger, conditions as you describe are easily treated (not that I think for a moment there is anything wrong with MarK. I love watching him make an arse out of you). But you are the unfortunate soul who suffers with incurable stupidity. And given some serious thought, if we were to kill all the people who disliked you, it would not be considered murder. It would be genocide.

    • The Badger says:

      08:15pm | 07/07/11

      PS -  Nicole
      Genocide IS murder!
      - The deliberate killing of a large group of people, esp. those of a particular ethnic group or nation
      What are you proposing? Killing all the Badgers?
      Badgers aren’t people Nicole. I believe you are talking about the concept of deliberate extinction. This is where people decide they will play god and exterminate an entire species. Good luck with that, is that conservative party policy, or just yours?

    • John Smythe says:

      08:55am | 08/07/11

      Badge, I think you just proved her point. smile

    • Warwick says:

      09:35am | 07/07/11

      Govt. has no money they manage the peoples money.Every cent of the Carbon Tax moneygoround is paid for by the people who Labor refuse a voice.Carbon Tax is the outcome of a lie which the people will not forgive or forget.Unless the Labor backbench revolt they will be obliterated at the next election.

    • Matt says:

      09:37am | 07/07/11

      I’m looking forward to seeing the details.  Whether you like it or not, it’s the way of the future, many countries around the world are looking at alternative power and carbon solutions.  If it didn’t happen now, there would be pressure on the next government or the next to implement it.  This is bigger than Australia, it’s a global issue and I’m glad we’ve got leaders with enough guts to tackle it properly.

      The biggest issue seems to be that Julia Gillard lied.  Can you really be so sensitive to be upset about a politician and a lie? I thought people expected politicians to lie..  I guess some people are only happy when they have something to whine about.

    • Franklyn says:

      09:58am | 07/07/11

      Her lie gave her the Prime Ministership!
      Yep your right I will have a bloody whine about it!

    • MarK says:

      10:38am | 07/07/11

      “Can you really be so sensitive to be upset about a politician and a lie?”

      She lied to gain political advantage. She lied to win an election.

      Swan lied to do the same.

      They have tarnished the office to win it.

      They are disgusting despicable people. At least the population has stopped listening to the shrew.

    • Jay Santos says:

      10:46am | 07/07/11

      Tell us exactly what is “the issue” Matt?

      We already know the climate changes…what else have you got in your alarmist handbag?

      Your second challenge is to name one country - just one will do - that has imposed an economy wide price on its “carbon emissions”.

      Take your time.

    • Elphaba says:

      11:09am | 07/07/11

      “Can you really be so sensitive to be upset about a politician and a lie?”

      Just because previous politicians have lied doesn’t mean she had to.

      It’s not just the lie. Does the carbon tax seem to you like it has environmental protection at its forefront?  How do you explain the exemption on petrol?  What about 500 companies being taxed instead of 1000? 

      Christ, even hardline Labor supporter Nossy has got his doubts, and he spends most of his day with his nose in between Julia’s buttcheeks (sorry Nossy, but you do). wink

      You’re right, I’m interested to see the details too.  I’m interested to see how screwed I’m going to be over an environmental policy that seems to care jack all about the environment.  Neither party has got the answer right on this one.  And we’re about to pay the price, for no gain.

    • BobM says:

      11:36am | 07/07/11

      Apparently a lie is only an issue if it comes from Tony Abbott. If it comes from our Prime “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” Minister, it’s ok.  Talk about having your head up your arse….

    • Elphaba says:

      12:18pm | 07/07/11

      Dash tells me the coal industry is being compensated as well.

      Good to hear that emissions from coal mining aren’t dangerous to the environment either… petrol is good, coal is good - so why are we having a carbon tax again?

    • nossy says:

      12:28pm | 07/07/11

      @Elphaba hahahah a ghastly word picture you painted there Elphaba! I am disgusted with Gillard in how she has filletted and gutted the Carbon Tax making it totally useless. As I am not a member of any Party I make up my own mind and what I see now is not pretty. We might as well give Abbott a crack at the PMship. However thats not likely to happen till 2013 thanks to the Greens and Independents. Gillard you have lost me - I was only ever 1 vote anyway as we all are.

    • The Badger says:

      12:43pm | 07/07/11

      Seriously elephantuba
      nose down butt cheeks?
      How could you see with your head buried inside Tony’s budgie smugglers?

    • Matt says:

      01:13pm | 07/07/11

      Lot of words put in my mouth there…. I’m the alarmist?  Where do you see me crying about the sky falling if a price on carbon is introduced. 

      For Jay - Sth Africa, India, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK.

      Mark K - gee, what politician hasn’t lied to gain political advantage and she wasn’t elected.

      Elphaba - Just because previous politicians have lied doesn’t mean she had to. (hehehe)  The list dropped from 1000 to 500 after fuel was made ‘exempt’, a lot of companies were suppliers etc.  I could imagine the uproar and ‘won’t somebody think of the children’ if fuel was included for families/small business etc.  Big business will still have to pay on fuel but through the rebate system. I don’t know why coal would be exempt but as details haven’t been released yet I don’t know if that’s true or not.. Seems odd though if it is.

      As I stated, I’m interested to see the details, I’m not willingly throwing money at the government… I also don’t agree with her lie, but as there’s nothing I can do until next election I don’t see the point in making myself look like an idiot by crying ‘she lied’ continuously..

    • Elphaba says:

      01:44pm | 07/07/11

      @Badger, there’s my little stalker. How are you, my little stalker? kiss  You know, NicoleG is TERRIBLY incensed about our dalliance.  Perhaps you could toss her a snide remark, just so she doesn’t get too heartbroken?

      Thanks luv.

    • AdamC says:

      01:50pm | 07/07/11

      Elphaba, have we resolved the Badger gender conundrum yet? I seem to recall there was some question about it a few days ago?

    • Elphaba says:

      01:57pm | 07/07/11

      Of course Nossy, there won’t be any changes until the next election.  Though I have my doubts that Tony will be leading the Libs by 2013… ahh, damnit, I just don’t know.  It doesn’t feel right.

      I think some huge stuff is gonna go down between now and the next election.

      Matt - coal is receiving $1.25billion in compensation, according to SMH.

    • The Badger says:

      02:10pm | 07/07/11

      Elephantuba
      Sorry, you and Nic will have to find someone else.
      I don’t go out with fat chicks or bogans.
      kiss

    • Jay Santos says:

      02:14pm | 07/07/11

      “...For Jay - Sth Africa, India, Denmark, Finland, Germany, Italy, the Netherlands, Norway, Slovenia, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK….”

      BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

      You can’t even lie.

      Thanks for proving my point.

    • Elphaba says:

      02:20pm | 07/07/11

      @AdamC, no idea.  I’m flattered either way.  You’ve not made it on the Punch until you’ve got a stalker… tongue laugh

    • Elphaba says:

      02:50pm | 07/07/11

      Aww Badger - I love it.  Got nothin’ to retort, so you call me fat?  What are you, 12?

      I can’t speak for the larger girls out there, but I’m betting that not even they would f*ck you.

    • Charity Box says:

      02:57pm | 07/07/11

      So Matt what you are saying is that the list went from 1000 to 500,and petrol would be exempt,meaning this has nothing to do with Carbon Pollution ,its all to do with money…I think I have it now.

    • Shifter says:

      03:08pm | 07/07/11

      I do like that the Badge is rocking the screenname nickname trend. I feel like such a hipster now.

      Ah good times.

      Back on track.. @Matt - why does the way of the future have to be a punishment rather than an encouragement?

      Why tax emissions when we have no alternative to use emissions producing products, utilities and services except through what is a fairly prohibitive outlay for most people.

      The average person would need to replace their petrol powered car for an electric or hydrogen cell powered one. They would need to then provide the power for this machine off the grid (which is mostly coal-fired). The food would need to be grown within a short distance to prevent the need for a diesel truck to transport it.

      This emissions utopia is a long way off. Charging a select group of people (middle income SINKs and DINKs, guarantee it) is in no way going to encourage the country to progress to this utopia.

      Given that government is dead-set on this stupid idea, the problem then becomes the apathy of the electorate to change their minds. In theory we should have an opposition to do this, but I haven’t heard good idea come from them in ... well… someone find me a good idea that was conceived by the opposition of the day.

    • Elphaba says:

      03:24pm | 07/07/11

      @Shifter, you’re right, we are setting some serious trends… emoticons, name changes - how can two people contain such awesome?

    • Matt says:

      03:45pm | 07/07/11

      Actually Charity I said no such thing, I was quoting from the News.com story that says the figure was dropped from 1000 to 500 because of a decision to exclude fuel suppliers and refinerys.  Gee, with some simple maths I might work out that about 500 companies on the list were involved in refining or supplying fuel..  It also states big users like road transport and miners may be subject to paying via their fuel rebate scheme.  You could try reading the article yourself but something tells me you’d rather be a smartarse than educate yourself.

      Jay, how exactly was I lying? Those countries have all imposed a price on carbon and haven’t exploded off the face of the earth..

      Shifter - it’s now almost globally accepted that carbon pollution is bad.  You don’t usually get rewarded for doing bad things.  Also, it costs money to research new energy sources.. or something.. I couldn’t give a fuck really, I don’t make the rules and as I said before - it will be interesting to see the details..

      Elphaba - why would they be compensated if they’re exempt?

    • Matt says:

      04:29pm | 07/07/11

      And Shifter, this is the oppositions good idea from their policy page -

      •Promote the use of clean energy and the development of renewable industries

      Then again, you did say conceived by the opposition lol..

    • Shifter says:

      04:56pm | 07/07/11

      @Matt - I’m not suggesting people be rewarded for doing bad things, but how about a carrot for the research/implementation of new energy sources.

      The beef I have here is the government’s immediate response to everything bad these days is to ban it (cows), tax it (carbon), or make it someone else’s problem (refugees) with little long term thought about the actual problem.

      Now if you’re suggesting the government needs to tax in order to research/implement new energy solutions then I ask why would you hand out $900 per person, or the billions that went into the BER and pink batts schemes if the need for ‘clean’ energy sources is such a high priority?

      I really don’t give a rats arse if Labor lied about wanting to implement the carbon tax, but simply, why should I be taxed more for the government’s financial mismanagement?

    • Matt says:

      05:01pm | 07/07/11

      OK, so the coal industry is not exempt and will receive $1.25b in compo.. Big fuel users may pay under a reduced rebate scheme.. Both included it would seem.

    • Jay Santos says:

      05:10pm | 07/07/11

      “...Jay, how exactly was I lying? Those countries have all imposed a price on carbon and haven’t exploded off the face of the earth…”

      Again with the lies.  We are not talking about an emissions trading system.

      Do you even know the difference? 

      Your grasp and knowledge of the “issues” is appalling.

      Again…r e a l l y sl o w l y :

      Name one country anywhere in the world that has an ECONOMY WIDE TAX ON CARBON?

    • Matt says:

      08:04am | 08/07/11

      I’m not interested in your crap Jay, explain why I need to name a country when Australia’s isn’t economy wide.. Fuel is part of the economy is it not? Yet it’s not being ‘taxed’ for everyday use.  Are 500 companies Australia’s economy?

    • Matt says:

      08:15am | 08/07/11

      Shifter, I gave my opinion on a carbon tax, simply that’s it’s not the end of the world.. I observed most people seem to be upset about being lied at by Julia which I find amusing seeing as she’s a politician.  I explained I don’t make the rules and sometimes don’t like them.  I also observed this is the way the WORLD is moving, not just Australia.

      I’m not interested in debating refugees, the differences of stimulating the economy vs a carbon price or cows with you.  If you disagree, good on you - I’m not trying to convince you of anything..

    • Bill says:

      09:40am | 07/07/11

      I doubt most Australians are even interested in Gillards compensation and details of her Carbon Tax.
      All I ever hear people saying is she’s a liar, she said there wouldn’t be one. And she stitched up a deal with the Greens and was happy to agree to anything to become P.M. even if it meant going back on her word to the nation.
      It’s her character that’s in question for the voters, not the details of her carbon tax.

    • John Smythe says:

      10:17am | 07/07/11

      quite simply, it’s both.

    • Harquebus says:

      11:31am | 07/07/11

      No balls.

    • Markus says:

      12:25pm | 07/07/11

      As a direct result of her character being in question for the voters, the details of her carbon tax are too.
      As is everything else that has/will ever come out of her mouth.

    • Scooter says:

      09:44am | 07/07/11

      We are now in the unenviable position of even our Parliament being subject to the tyranny of the minority.  The reason we don’t have a Liberal government is because the party room wouldn’t get into bed with Bob Brown (shudder)!  And Labor were willing to prostitute themselves for the simple purpose of not relinquishing their Ministries.
      Obviously we (the voters) can only blame ourselves for not punishing the child hard enough at the last polls, in this instance a slap on the wrist wasn’t enough and what was really required was a damned good smack on the arse.
      At the next poll anyone who admits to voting Green should have to undergoe compulsory electroshock therapy, because of those who’s protest at the last ballot went green our whole country is being screwed.

    • stevem says:

      10:53am | 07/07/11

      I suggest an even more humiliating punishment for Greens voters. I suggest they be forced to actually read the policies of the party for which they voted, then be given a short (5 minute) run down of the economic effects of implementing them.

    • Mid says:

      09:52am | 07/07/11

      Probably something to do with the typically alarmist and dishonest rubbish that passes for mainstream reporting on anything related to climate change. Reap what you sew and all that…

    • michael j says:

      10:01am | 07/07/11

      That may be so,but do they give you a cavity search to make sure you are not the first to ‘break’ the story ,,,hide them little bugs anywhere these days,,,

    • Glenn says:

      10:09am | 07/07/11

      We were promised a new paradigm and they weren’t lying about that. Since I will be locked out of the announcement can you ask a Question for me - when Julia refers to Australian Families does she include same sex families and also what will us singles get?

    • Carbontaxvote says:

      10:24am | 07/07/11

      I’m just a regular voter who would like to see a national vote on this. I have no party affiliation. If you would like to vote on the tax - vote here http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/NXRHQC8 - It’s just one question - Do you support the Government’s plan to introduce a price on carbon to deal with climate change?

      Results posted regularly here - http://www.facebook.com/pages/Carbontaxvote/204905352889508

      Share the facebook link with friends and let’s see if we can get the survey viral. A significant public response would give all parties something to listen to.

    • Harquebus says:

      10:26am | 07/07/11

      I am going to say this again for the umpteenth time. There is no such thing as renewable energy. The laws of physics don’t allow it.
      It’s not that the tax won’t do anything, it can’t do anything. There are no alternatives. Don’t believe me? Just wait and see. The egg on Bob Brown’s face is going to be the photo of the century.

    • SimonTigey says:

      01:58pm | 07/07/11

      I totally agree with what you say, there are currently no alternatives to base load power generation other than nuclear. Which the Greens wont allow, so work that one out!!!!!

    • Shifter says:

      02:54pm | 07/07/11

      Lets go with the standard definition of renewable in the energy field:

      Not produced by burning stuff dug up from the ground.

      A better word to use might be repeatable, in the sense that the sun is likely to shine, the wind is likely to blow, and the tides are likely to change tomorrow as they did today.

    • Frank says:

      03:30pm | 07/07/11

      UM Renewable means you don’t destroy it after you dig it out of the ground and burn it up…Wind doesn’t disappear does it? the Sun isn’t going away anytime soon, Harquebus your delusional “The laws of Physics won’t allow it” how bout recycling do the Laws of Physics allow for that cos thats the basic idea of a renewable energy, the source of energy say wind, sun and dams for hydro are not finite as in coal is a finite substance….it will run out in say 45 years…so unless your stating that the wind will stop blowing and the sun will stop shining…heres two simple words SHUT UP…

    • Harquebus says:

      11:34pm | 07/07/11

      Frank. Prove to me that your mythical renewable energy works and I’ll shut up. I have been harping on about this for years, am undefeated and still going strong. Bring it on. Oh, and just to boot, peak oil mate, peak oil.

    • Markus says:

      10:28am | 07/07/11

      I kinda wish journos and newspapers Australia wide had the balls to make a statement to the Aus government by refusing to rock up to the lockout this weekend, to really give this piece of rubbish the coverage it deserves.

      I won’t hold my breath though.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      01:27pm | 07/07/11

      So Markus, you don’t want to know what rate the carbon tax will be set at or how the compensation will work?

      It’s just a piece of rubbish without you knowing any of the details?

      That says it all about the motivations of 85 per cent of the trolls on this site.

    • Dementer says:

      10:37am | 07/07/11

      There will be economic issues, that like the budget effect australias economy. Its not about the communist state that every body is portraying.

      Regardless this is the most important issue and at least the government is going forward and leading the country in the right direction

    • MarK says:

      12:42pm | 07/07/11

      Bullshit. I called it you said it.

      You fraud Dementer. Show me in her election launch last year what she said about “this most important” issue.

      Go on.

      Failure of courage. Failure of vision. Failure of truth.

      Swan lied.

      Gillard lied.

      It is a wealth redistribution scheme. The cat is belled. No one is listening.

      If it is a serious issue petrol would be in and the price $75 a tonne or more.

      Fail on all fronts.

      Australians hate a bullshit artist that is why Rudd soured so quick. Julia is going the same way.

    • Dementer says:

      01:46pm | 07/07/11

      MarK you can say all you want but the Austrlian people see a leader and in the end the Gillard Government will be proved right. Thats why we are being absolutely transparent and upfront about that and that’s why we are providing tax cuts and pension increases and family payments increases to nine out of 10 households.

      It good for the country and good for people and the future of Australia all the noise coming from the negative no men mean nothing now we have to move on with life.  I am personally amazed that climate deniers are allowed to speak at all. Such rubbish should never get air time and I would be keen if the parliment sanctioned anyone who say that climate change and carbon tax is stupid. They are jeapodising life itself

    • The Badger says:

      01:52pm | 07/07/11

      Dementer
      I see you’ve caught one in your net. You really do have an appropriate handle and I can tell the type you’re after.

      Throw him back, he’s lot’s of fun to catch and he makes strange noises when you flip him on the deck.  Mostly they sound like a grunter saying NO

      Throw him back, you’ll have no problem catching him again and maybe next time, you’ll hear other sounds of anguish perhaps he’ll even HOOT for you.

    • Dash says:

      02:19pm | 07/07/11

      Dementer - You have got to be kidding!

      Families will be descriminated against on the basis of their income. Not on their carbon footprint. Not on their pollution levels. But on what they earn. That money is being reallocated to people who the ALP see as worthy irrespective of how they pollute!

      And you want to tell me it’s not Socialism???

      And if it’s “the most important issue” why the hell are the ALP looking to compensate the coal industry to the tune of $1.25billion and excluding fuel? This whole thing is a massive fraud!

      The price will not be big enough to impact behaviour and global average temperature will not be impacted by a single degree. Wealth redistribution is all this is about. Punish the successful people already paying significant levels of tax and reward people who are paying little if any tax and are already a financial strain on our society. Complete socialist madness!

      The freedom and liberties afforded people by the free market are under threat here. The government is deliberately punishing people who work hard and make a better life for themselves and their families. It’s a bloody disgrace!

      And MarK the whole of the ALP is full of Bullshit!

    • MarK says:

      02:33pm | 07/07/11

      “They are jeapodising life itself “

      Yes.

      And Abbott is running a scare campaign.
      Apart from the fact you want to shut down debate give an example of how this tax, it is just a tax, is “good for people and the future of Australia”

      You are invited to provide anything of use as well Badger.

      I am an equal opportunity blogger and totally inclusive of people like you. Feel free to dazzle us with anything resembling you 2. Let us see the combined intellectual might of the progressives at work. I am agog with anticipaion of any ideas you two mental giants might come with. Particularly Badger.

      Protip dementer. Keep up with current events. Gillards office backed her away from the 9 out of 10 to 7 out of 10 figure. Try and maintain the correct talking points. The focus groups hate confusion in the ranks.

      I also note you failed to address the challenge of showing me the detail of climate change she put into her campaign launch last year. Don’t be scared. Run along and dig it out.

    • dementer says:

      07:35pm | 07/07/11

      MarK,

      All will be revealed in the fullness of time. At the moment the government has had the full and frank talks with the Greens and the indis.

      And you question if this is solicalism, I bloody well hope so

    • cutelyconservative says:

      08:04pm | 07/07/11

      @Dementer,  I don’t like the look of that ‘solicalism’.  I’m questioning it.  Could be poison.  Take none.  And take no advice from The Badger.  It’s a sow badger and the sows aren’t as bright as the boars.

    • Will says:

      10:40am | 07/07/11

      Everyone needs to keep in mind this Carbon Tax is to appease Bob Brown and his crew of misfits and to keep Gillard in office.
      Anything else is fantasy.

    • Gregory says:

      10:43am | 07/07/11

      It’s all too funny. Tony Abbott has all but designed this Carbon Tax. Every time he raises an issue with it, she agrees and changes her compensation package. Hilarious!

    • Carolyn says:

      11:52am | 07/07/11

      She keeps saying we are going to show Tony Abbott his attacks aren’t true. lol
      Aren’t true anymore because he made you change your compensation! This is hilarious Gregory.

    • Rambutan says:

      10:47am | 07/07/11

      So was there ever a time in the history of the world when the climate was NOT changing? By the way, you’ve got to love this democracy of ours. Thank God we have been helping Iraq, Afghanistan and others to enjoy the benefits of democracy.

    • Jacki says:

      11:06am | 07/07/11

      Small business and working families can thank Abbott for the compensation package.

    • The Sandwich says:

      11:07am | 07/07/11

      It would be hilarious if nobody showed up.

    • Harquebus says:

      11:27am | 07/07/11

      I would love to see that.

    • John Smythe says:

      11:47am | 07/07/11

      I would too. Nothing would drive the message home more than a no show by the media.

      I don’t understand the necessity for the lockout though.

    • Anubis says:

      11:09am | 07/07/11

      Why was billions of dollars spent on constructing that big cave mounted with syringe on that hill in Canberra if it is not going to be used as a Parlaiment House?  The release of a finalised Policy Document is what used to be referred to a Ministerial Statement and was handled by a detailed announcement in the House of Representatives. Isn’t that why they have a HoR chamber?

      Since when have Ministerial Announcement been nation wide propaganda broadcasts? With a policy as broad reaching as this one, that is going to have an impact on every facet of Australian life, then surely the details should be released through the House so that it can be properly debated. Not hidden away from proper scrutiny just two days after the House finishes sitting and five weeks before it can be debated.

      This Watermelon Government is a joke, that would be funny if it wasn’t so detrimental to the future prosperity of the nation.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      01:31pm | 07/07/11

      Anubis - the details of the GST package and the 2005 WorkChoices package were also announced in non-sitting weeks via press conference, not as Ministerial statements. The GST announcement was in the winter break as well.

      But is it only the wrong thing to do if it’s a Labor government?

      Perhaps you should learn some history instead of just parroting the Opposition’s lines.

    • Anubis says:

      02:06pm | 07/07/11

      @ Rover - I do not give a stuff about what Mr non-core promises Howard did in the past. That is irrelevant to what is currently going on. Gillard is hell bent on imposing this tax which has the potential to see a lot of small businesses shutting their doors as weel as destroying Australia’s productivity and capability to compete in overseas markets. For what - even Garnaut and Flannery have said that this will have no effect on the climate. She has now exempted petrol (must not be a pollutant) and has reduced the 1000 “big polluters” down to 500. What does this do to the “pot-o-money” she is going to use to try to buy votes?

      @ Rover - Please explain what the benefits of this tax are going to be? At the moment I can not perceive any benefits. Please enlighten us all as to how great and wonderful this is going to be.

      And please do not presume to know how I vote. I have never voted Liberal and probably never will (I dislike Abbot with almost as much total disdain as I have for Gillard). At the moment there does not seem to be a single politician in Canberra that is worth voting for. The Liberals are directionless, Labor is stuffed, the Greens are dangerous whackjobs and the independents have proven themselves to be sycophantic suck-ups who are skimming the cream. What with one buying farms to sell them to China, another one being a one trick pony concerned only with his crusade against poker machines, and as for Katter - he slipped down the rabbit hole years ago.

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      03:53pm | 07/07/11

      Anubis - I’ll wait until Sunday when I can see the details reported before I make up my mind on the carbon tax.

      I just get very annoyed to hear people carrying on about how this announcement is so big that it should have been made in Parliament when they’ve clearly forgotten at least two big announcements that weren’t. It shows that it doesn’t really matter whether the announcement is made in Parliament or outside - the debate will still be had.

    • Dave says:

      11:14am | 07/07/11

      We are going to pay this PM a life pension along with her spouse, and Free Flights, office, secretary,car, the list just goes on, in the mean time Tasmania is like Greece, bankrupt, no business wants to invest there, why, Greens, 5.4% unemployment, no tourism, the list goes on, in NT, the cows saga, backdown, why?,Greens, the worst bushfires ever known in recorded history in this country, people died, towns and hundreds of houses down, why, Greens,this country is drowning with total tyranny, totalitarianism to which absolute government in which unlimited power is vested in a single usually severe and oppressive ruler. Labor is only a puppet. We dont owe Tasmania 65% of the GST Ticketing to keep their heads above hotwater, we in NSW are also suffering to, no business for Tas. unemployment 5.4%, no business wants to invest there, why Greens. Do we want that here, and how much GST Ticketing can Labor give the rest of us??? Enough on this bull.

    • Joel B1 says:

      11:57am | 07/07/11

      Yeah, and I just LOVE the way Milnekeeps talking down the other bidder for that Tassie Triabunna Mill.

      Funny. The wotif guy, yep the one who personally donated $1500,000.00 to the Greens is the other bidder.

      Funny that.

    • Errol says:

      11:59am | 07/07/11

      Please explain how this carbon tax will reduce emissions.
      Tax the big power stations and they will increase their prices.
      M/s Gillard says they will compensate low to middle income people for higher prices, but how will this help to reduce emissions ?
      It seems to me that it is simply a way of redistributing wealth at the discretion of the government.
      Will it all be handed out in compensation or will the government try to hold on to this money for as long as possible in government coffers and only dole it out as future tax cuts etc.
      We can be sure that the government will redistribute this
      bonanza in such a way that is beneficial to their chances at the next elaction.

    • Lytton says:

      12:01pm | 07/07/11

      It is a disgrace that the carbon dioxide tax is not being announced formally in Parliament.  Previous energy policy statements have been made in Parliament. Clearly the Gillard Govt has maneuvered the timing to avoid Parliament.  Not a good look, just adding to perceptions of trickiness.

    • Margaret says:

      12:04pm | 07/07/11

      The blatant hypocracy displayed by these so-called , intellectuals , placed within the walls of the House , to administer OUR funds , for the benefit of our country and , in overseas aid , for the betterment of other people , is nothing short of traitorous . Trying NOT to be biased , cannot think of ONE instance , since 2007, that affords me feelings of warmth and confidence .....

      This latest and ongoing fiasco , to change our way of living , is SO fraught with abilities to bring Australia to its knees , that I cannot think other than it IS a deliberate attempt , dangerously close to fruition , to control everything but our thoughts and , were that possible , they would also accomplish that end ...

      To now refuse to deliver to the taxpayers of this country , that which they have ALREADY worked out , until AFTER Parliment adjourns for the winter break , so that it can be fully debated in the House , proves the steath and dishonesty of the new paradigm .......

      As a pensioner , there is NO amount of money they can pay me , that will force me to sell my soul ;  it is a bad , bad move and , saying a payment of a tax , will help to control Nature , displays the total arrogance of them all ........

    • SimonTigey says:

      01:38pm | 07/07/11

      Bingo! Good comment Margaret!!!

    • Rover of North Cooma says:

      01:58pm | 07/07/11

      Really? It was so badly , written , that I , could barely , .... read it.

    • SimonTigey says:

      02:08pm | 07/07/11

      Rover of North Cooma, it’s the essence of the comment i totally agree with, you are right the flow could have been better. However, I do like the content!!!

    • BobM says:

      02:11pm | 07/07/11

      But you’re an illiterate dog, Rover.  Now sit down, roll over - oh, I see you already have. Probably one of those dumb Border Collies…...

    • Against the Man says:

      07:02pm | 07/07/11

      Margaret keep up the good fight! Remember the morons are now the minority smile

    • Ryan says:

      12:08pm | 07/07/11

      It’s just a poorly organised and shoddily assembled money grab.
      All they tell us is who doesn’t have to pay - which when considering they said there would be no tax in the first place means you can’t believe anything they say - but what they don’t say is what the money will be used for.
      If they really cared about carbon reduction etc. they would be promoting and assisting with photovoltaic cell setup for peoples homes that feed back into the grid etc. but instead they backflipped on that.  They punish diesl users over petrol users because diesel is used in large quantity by big industry so they can expect a large revenue collection there.
      It’s all about money, even the Greens don’t give a wooden nickel about the Environment anymore, just money and marital rights.

    • Frank says:

      12:15pm | 07/07/11

      UMM you do realise these are politicans you are talking about? Look at Howard…There will be no GST, oh wait there will be a GST..Just because Julia did it this time makes no difference…politicians take advantage of the moment..look at Tony Abbott he’s having the time of his life repeating the same crap over and over like a broken record…that no one is listening to because no one, in their right mind will make him Prime Minister.

    • Daz says:

      12:33pm | 07/07/11

      The difference Frank,is that Howard did have the balls to go to an election with it.

      Big difference if you ask me…

    • RyaN says:

      12:49pm | 07/07/11

      @Frank: don’t be completely thick, Howard took a GST to an ELECTION and WON, I don’t see that lying filth Gillard doing that ?
      I also don’t remember Howard saying he wasn’t going to bring in a GST then after the election do the exact opposite.

      None so blind as those that don’t want to see. She lied to us all, you should be outraged at being treated with such utter contempt that she felt it ok to lie to you. Then again considering your comparison to Howard and the GST, it possibly escaped you entirely.

    • Facts Frank facts ..... says:

      01:11pm | 07/07/11

      For goodness sake Frank every time I see someone say Howard said No GST I pity their intelligence.  Howard changed his mind - sure - but he took it to an election and won a MAJORITY government.  Labor willnot do that and that is th breech of trust and democracy.  elected on a lie is a total affront.
      Here’s another fact for you Frank.  Our electricity production produces twice as much CO2 as Europe (1kg v 500g per kW).  Consequently we will pay twice the tax the Europeans would if they had a similar system (2.3c v 1.15c per kW based on $23T.)
      And frank love your go at TA.  Particularly amusing as he is currently ahead of Gillard in the preferred PM polls.  Extrapolating your position means that no one who voted for her was in their right mind!

    • Ben81 says:

      01:34pm | 07/07/11

      Just look at how far you have to stretch to justify your support of this to yourself Frank, it doesn’t matter what John Howard did even though you’re using a terrible example in the first place for reasons that have been done to death a million times, the excuse of “but…but…Howard!” is pathetic.

      And in support of what?  A tax that will make Australian products more expensive and drive up the cost of doing business here that has *zero* real world impact on climate change, not the slightest measurable little bit?  Are you people out of your mind?

    • Dash says:

      01:59pm | 07/07/11

      Frank - I hope for your sake you are not in Middle or high income Australia. Regardless of how you pollute you will pay on the basis of what you earn. If you’re poor, you can pollute till your heart’s content and you will still have money thrown at you. that’s the stupidity of this bloody stupid policy. If you’re the coal industry you’ll get compensated to the tune of $1.25billion but if your successful enough to earn $80,000 a year, you’ll get nothing. These Socialist pigs in the ALP and greens should be ashamed of themselves!

    • tim easyhomerenovating says:

      12:17pm | 07/07/11

      We might be lucky to avoid a major truckies strike , that would freeze the country. But I Doubt it , theres likely to be some trouble ahead ! Time to renovate your own home

    • Carbon Elektra says:

      12:19pm | 07/07/11

      No one, not one science expert, nor economist, nor Labor party hack has confirmed by how much the global temperatures will be reduced by Australia taxing the top 1000 polluters and subsidising affected industries and consumers accordingly. Having flagged the non Carbon Taxing of fuel on a raft of vehicle types, as well as a reduction to around just 500 top polluters the revenue stream for the tax is now much reduced. Oh compensation will still flow to those affected industries and votes waiting to happen. So come on scientists and economists tell me how halving the number of top polluters being taxed is going to help reduce the global warming temperatures. Afterall, this was the reason for the tax in the first place - right? Or has it all just been a smoke and mirrors tax grab to fill the black hole that Labor dug us into over it’s poorly implemented Stimulus Package?

    • Seano says:

      01:15pm | 07/07/11

      “top polluters being taxed is going to help reduce the global warming temperatures”

      None. The point of these measures is to reduce the damage we are doing to the environment by reducing pollution. Not redressing the damage we have already done.

      But I suspect you already know that.

    • Dash says:

      01:50pm | 07/07/11

      Seano, the ALP are going to compensate the coal industry to the tune of $1.25billion, yet they are going to descriminate against families on the baisis of income. Not on their carbon footprint or how much they pollute, but on how much they earn. It’s socialism. It’s not about the environment or making big polluters pay. It’s not a free market mechinism. It’s fraud! Surely you can see that? If you believe this is about the environment you are not as smart as I thought you were.

    • Seano says:

      02:26pm | 07/07/11

      How can you possibly measure a family’s carbon foot print? They can’t even stop the black economy with regard to the GST, how are they going to make sure every family is recording their carbon foot print correctly?

    • Dash says:

      03:05pm | 07/07/11

      Seano, the ALP are going to descriminate against families on the basis of their income alone. That is socialism. It makes a mockery out of the claim of making big polluters pay. And it is not a free market mechanism at all! It wouldn’t matter how many solar panels I put in my house, how much grey water I use, how large my water tank is, how little electricity I use, how much I drive, what I drive, or how many trees I have on my property I still will get no compensation for the ALP reducing my living standards! Why because of my income. Don’t give me bullshit this is about pollution when the mechinism punishes me on income alone. The ALP can get f_ucked! Pack of bloody Socialist morons!

    • Seano says:

      05:01pm | 07/07/11

      @Dash - if you can tell me a practicle way they can do it fairer I’m all ears.

      I don’t think I’ve said it’s a free market mechanism. In the past I’ve said I’m a supporter of the free market economy with the appropriate checks and balances. Personally I see making big polluters pay to pollute is an appropriate balance. Yes some of the costs will be passed back to consumers but the worst affected will be compensated. But in the mean time we get less pollution, less inclination to produce pollute and a push to cleaner energy.

      As someone who also wont get compensated (and always misses out on middle class welfare) I’m happy to pay a bit more to have a cleaner environment for my children.

    • Dash says:

      08:34pm | 07/07/11

      Seano, your assumption is that behaviour will be changed by the big polluters. The government’s own experts say that $23 is not going to be anywhere near big enough to change behaviour. All that will happen is your living standards and my living standards will be reduced so the ALP can play Socialist wealth redistribution games! That’s it. You still believe the environmental argument, I don’t! If there is going to be no impact to the environment, then why have the tax in the first place!

      Btw, it’s the ALP that are saying its a free market mechinism.

    • Seano says:

      09:47pm | 07/07/11

      Of course behaviour will change, polluters will automatically go for less polluting options before passing on costs. Consumers will automatically go for products and services that are cheaper.

      At the end of the day, what ever label you want to put on it polluters should pay for doing damage to the environment.

    • Worker says:

      12:20pm | 07/07/11

      Gillard’s “proof” as announed by Oakes was CSIRO findings that CO2 levels have steadily increased, however they both conveniently omitted the section related to temperatures, which remained flat. Hell to pay.

    • RyaN says:

      12:43pm | 07/07/11

      Oh well, time for us to have a nationwide strike until this government and its carbon tax is gone.

    • AnthonyG says:

      01:24pm | 07/07/11

      i’ll second that motion

    • luke says:

      12:43pm | 07/07/11

      I hope someone smuggles a skunk into the lock up.

    • Martin says:

      01:08pm | 07/07/11

      A good vindaloo should do the trick.

    • Christian Real says:

      08:37am | 08/07/11

      Luke
      Nobody needs to smuggle a skunk into the lockup, Tony Abbott is already in there.

    • Lesley Laurel says:

      12:58pm | 07/07/11

      The COALition supports COAL, COALition Forces And COALition Parties.
      NEVER FORGET COAL.

    • Anubis says:

      01:50pm | 07/07/11

      Welcome back @ Lesley Laurel, you poor deluded sycophant. Would that be the Brown/Gillard Watermelon COALition you are talking about there?

      They who have now deemed that emissions from petrol are NOT an ecological hazard, those that have increased the amount of compensation to Coal miners, those that are currently telling the COAL miners that their industry is going to leap ahead and boom. Apparently Coal is no longer an environmental hazard either. And it now seems we only have 500 “Big Polluters” rather then the 1000 they have been blathering on about for months.

      Lesley - step away from the keyboard, turn off the computer and go back to that wacky ‘backy that you seem to ingest in ever greater amounts. BTW Lesley Laurel smoking your bong contributes to Carbon Dioxide emissions by releasing the Carbon trapped in your “Mary Jane” while it was growing.

    • Dash says:

      01:54pm | 07/07/11

      The ALP are going to compensate the coal industry to the tune of $1.25billion! Yet they are going to give no compensation to Australian families on the baisis of their income. Not their carbon footprint or thier pollution levels but because of what they earn. This is Socialism. It has nothing to do with the environment and it is not a free market mechinism. Don’t swallow the ALPs bullshit!

    • Coalin says:

      01:55pm | 07/07/11

      Good point, I’m glad someone’s smart enough to remind us of that fact Lesley. Well done. More people need to be told the real reason they call themselves COALiton. They can fool some of us some of the time but not all the time eh Les.

    • James says:

      01:05pm | 07/07/11

      Is it getting time for a revolution in Australia,the government completely ignores our wishes and plods along doing their own thing without a thought for us.They were never elected to bring in a carbon tax,maybe a forceful removal is required to bring them to their senses,20 or 30 years in prison might make them comply with the electorates demands.

    • John Smythe says:

      02:44pm | 07/07/11

      Time to dust off the Southern Cross flag!

    • LC says:

      03:24pm | 07/07/11

      Easy there James and John Smythe, Howard took away honest citizen’s guns 15 years ago, remember?

      What will we revolt with? Sticks, stones and harsh language? Maybe the voting public will revolt against Labor and The Greens next election, but by then it could be too late.

    • RyaN says:

      05:35pm | 07/07/11

      @LC: its called civil disobedience, a general strike will bring the country and this governments addiction to our taxes to its knees in days.

    • Rushhour says:

      01:43pm | 07/07/11

      My prediction for what it is worth.. (one vote I guess)... is six weeks after Sunday afternoon her Government will lose patience with her and will need to remove her from the top job. An election will be announced because Ms Gillard could not explain the CONcept and will not be able to explain the details. The novelty of the first female PM is over. Penny Wong would have been a more popular choice she would have known when to pull back and when to go forward. Gillard only knows one speed and that is follow me full steam ahead..

    • Anna says:

      02:18pm | 07/07/11

      OMG Penny Wong!  2 lesbians in the Lodge. Now that might be pushing it a bit rushhour. I would say though she seems very much across her portfolio’s and seems highly intelligent.

    • Anubis says:

      03:51pm | 07/07/11

      @ Anna

      The Lodge?? What is that ?

      Are you referring to Boganville, that house behind the big fence in Canberra, just near parliament house?

      The one which Liberal MP Bishop was referring to when she asked Kevin Rudd if he had any plans to return to Boganville

      What it be renamed if Penny Wong became resident?

    • GJoh says:

      02:00pm | 07/07/11

      Julia Gillard’s Sunday Lockup for Carbon Tax stitch-up.  Enter Labor Spindoctor Bruce Hawker - hawking his wares.

    • lesley laurel says:

      02:17pm | 07/07/11

      Brett Kenny scored more than 100 tries for Parramatta!
      Mark Kenny has scored 100 Punch Posts on political matters!
      Are 100 Mark Kenny Punch Posts worth 100,000,000 dollars of propaganda for the adam bandt, the greens and ALP.
      Is mark kenny the one armed bandt like andrew wilkie ? Or the one eyed bandt?

    • William says:

      03:24pm | 07/07/11

      Try bush and get off the hydro!

    • n_dude says:

      02:26pm | 07/07/11

      Even in the case of the budget, given the large numbers of leaks that happen, I would also question why for that as well. In the end the press conference is an anti climax because we know most of what is going to be said anyway

    • Frank says:

      03:38pm | 07/07/11

      The leaks in that case come from Swan lol I doubt Combet is going to follow his suit…

    • earl says:

      02:28pm | 07/07/11

      My only hope is that people never forget this betrayal and annihilate the labor party and greens at the next election. Make sure everyone votes for a liberal majority so we can expunge this heinous tax from the system and make sure it never comes back.

    • Frank says:

      03:33pm | 07/07/11

      I hope no one else shares your short sighted view, the Liberal Party’s Direct Action plan will increase your GST to 15% and then what? he’ll plant a couple trees here and a couple trees there….hopeless…utterly hopeless

    • Ben81 says:

      05:57pm | 07/07/11

      “the Liberal Party’s Direct Action plan will increase your GST to 15%”

      lie

    • earl says:

      07:36pm | 07/07/11

      At least direct action is a flexible plan which can be cancelled easily if global warming turns out to be a crock, given the latest research shows no warming for 12 years.

      It is a travesty of justice that no one will be held accountable if we pay all this tax and nothing actually happens - no one will be sent to jail for fraud. If it were to be real, our 4% emissions would not have made any difference anyway…and thats a scientific fact.

    • TGIF says:

      03:50pm | 08/07/11

      It’s funny you think the coalition won’t install their own tax.. Perhaps you should read their policy page every now and then if you’re going to champion them. From their policy page -

      •Promote the use of clean energy and the development of renewable industries
      •Commit to nationally agreed affordable climate change strategies

    • jasperjen says:

      02:55pm | 07/07/11

      On Tues and Wed during Question Time after we had already learned that the carbon tax details would be released on Sunday and we could presume Juliar already knew the details why did she constantly refer in answers to the 1000 big polluters   then today announce it as the 500 big polluters This woman has made telling a lie an art form. No matter what the people pay or get compensated ultimately the people pay, manufacturers will pass on their cost, cunsumer demand will stay the same, prices go up, money is redistributed, more publis servants needed to do this and the net result no change in emissions. What a futile excercise if we have waited this long to tackle this problem and it is going to take hundreds of years to drop the temp of the earth by one degree, seems we can take a few more years to really look at this issue.

    • Gran Depine says:

      05:17pm | 07/07/11

      @ jasperjen Gran stands up and claps smile Good on you Jasperjen tell it like it is. The ALP and Treasury know that they are in deep financial trouble. They write policies on the run. The only foresight the ALP have is the image of their noses when they look at it. They are so desperate, their actions and directions move every time the Gallup Poll farts.  The Carbon Dioxide tax is only there in a futile attempt to bail the bastards out .

    • Colow says:

      04:01pm | 07/07/11

      At least at the end of all this the planet will start to cool and all the glaciers will reform. BUT…lets hope they don’t go too far with this carbon reduction thingy or we’ll all freeze over.
      Then I’ll laugh Juliar, Ross and the Oz of the Year.
      Australia will lead the world on this….the others may laugh at us though.

    • RyaN says:

      05:40pm | 07/07/11

      @Colow: the planet has been already been cooling without this tax, I guess just talking about this tax gave the global warming a scare and started cooling.

    • jim peters says:

      04:53pm | 07/07/11

      So we’ve got a government that wasnt elected by Australians led by someone who has twice been PM now without being elected imposing a tax the majority of the people are against.  Good day for democracy.

    • ROBYNNE says:

      05:36pm | 07/07/11

      What do you expect from a communist socalist government?

    • hot tub political machine says:

      05:44pm | 07/07/11

      You’ll have to decide whether its communist or socialist Robynne, as the terms are mutually exclusive.

      Your Comrade

      Hot tub
      MBA
      Capitalist
      Nazi
      Female
      Man

    • paulh says:

      06:06pm | 07/07/11

      This lock up is a blatant decietful stunt, as was NOT announcing the details of the tax (we were not going to have) untill after parliament closes for winter break.This maipulative goverment should be questioned on its morals or lack of them.After all the lies about not leading the world, we will be the only country with an economy wide carbon tax, a tax set at higher per ton than anyone elses and a tax that will bring in more in 6 months than the EU scheme has in 6 YEARS (by the way 500 million people live in the EU) we have been sold down the river by a decietful PM whose main aim is to appease the greens and stay in power, it has to be as this tax will NOT cut global temps in any way and that is a scientific fact Ms Gillard.

    • WayneT says:

      07:00pm | 07/07/11

      Carbon is the element upon which all living things are built.  With carbon a kind of currency—which is what all carbon taxes and carbon trading and similar schemes do—all ecosystems suddenly have a commercial value that makes them subject to manipulation for gain.

      The Greens are so blinded by their so called agenda that they can’t see that their cause has been hijacked by the very people they despise – Government, Bankers and Traders.  They are sitting in the wings salivating at the prospect of a Carbon trading scheme which this tax is due to morph into.  Money will be siphoned off by Government in bureaucratic churn while the Banks and Traders will take their massive cuts on every trade deal.  The dumb arse Greens literally can’t see the forest for the trees.  I’d have a laugh at their expense if it wasn’t so damn depressing.

      In the end Power generators will not move to renewables because they know (as anybody who has researched the facts) that alternatives like wind and solar are currently expensive, inefficient, and do not provide base load capacities when required. On top of this you still require the equivalent in coal or gas fired power stations to run in an inefficient stand-by mode ready to supply power for when the wind and sun don’t come out to play.  In Europe wind turbines are so expensive that they would not be built in the first place except for the large government subsidies provided, and the same will have to happen here.  Guess who will pay for that?

      Given all this it will be simpler and more economical for our power generators to just pass on the tax to the end users – us.

    • Dark Horse says:

      07:10pm | 07/07/11

      It’s difficult to consider the carbon tax as anything more than a cynical plan to take money from those of us who work hard, who educated ourselves and got off our fat asses to be successful, and give it to the Labor-voting idle class.

      What a joke: a tax that is so poorly designed and inefficient that you take it off almost everyone and then give most of it back. What a farce?

    • Dash says:

      08:39pm | 07/07/11

      Yep - but they’re going to give only 50% back. They punish the hard working sucessful people paying the lions share of tax and creating the country’s wealth and reward the wealth destroyers that pay little if any tax. ALP are a pack of Socialist morons!

    • James says:

      09:46pm | 07/07/11

      Whilst I agree this tax is bordering on a farce, the general right-wing notion :

      “take money from those of us who work hard, who educated ourselves and got off our fat asses to be successful, and give it to the Labor-voting idle class.”

      is incorrect, pure and simple. It also exposes right-wing hypocrisy/idiocy, as labour voters can morph from being welfare-bludging “idle class” to the inner city elite to suit the argument.

    • TGIF says:

      11:13am | 08/07/11

      You know what else is a joke, the amount of LNP supporters that don’t read their own policies….

      •Commit to nationally agreed affordable climate change strategies

      I wonder what that could mean..

    • Beth says:

      10:50pm | 07/07/11

      I keep asking the same question, “What is the point of having a carbon tax which and then the government giving relief payments to every man and his dog to pay for it?”  This so-called policy has nothing whatsoever to do with actually doing anything to reduce carbon emissions in our environment.  It is all about Gillard and her Labor government making a revenue raising tax grab.  To add insult to injury for Australians, Gillard is not imposing the tax on some of the biggest carbon emitting industries (cause they say it will cost a lot) and fuel will be exempt from it !  WHAT THE !  As much as I do not want to pay any more for already exhorbitant fuel costs, BE REAL ! , fuel users, including planes, trains and automobiles (and trucks) are the biggest emitters of carbon.  Gillard and Labor are a disgrace !  This tax is being imposed for no other reason than sheer desperation to get some form of revenue coming in to the Labor government, who have done nothing but spend since they got into power.  F..k ! Labor has F,,,ed Australia.  Good on you Julia, Wayne and now Bob too.  Oh, and please, never forget those 3 idiot independants.

    • Aussie Battler says:

      11:00pm | 07/07/11

      I find it rather ridiculous how low some will stoop to try and force the Carbon Tax onto people/business.  Now it appears GetUp is planning what to me amounts to a blackmail campaign to try and get Business to back away from campaigning against the Carbon Tax.
      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/getup-plans-grocery-boycott/story-fn59niix-1226089992769
      I find it hypocritical that this group receives funding from some Unions, but if the Carbon Tax comes in, there is a very good possibility the some Union Members will lose their jobs.  I wonder how they feel about sponsoring the possible demise of their own incomes ?

    • Frank says:

      09:59am | 08/07/11

      This just in: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/climate-change/carbon-tax-to-cost-10-a-week-per-household-20110707-1h4tv.html The Carbon Tax will be $23 (i dont know how accurate Lenor’s prediction is but she states in this article today that the carbon tax will cost us all and extra $10 a week per household, OMFG!! END OF THE WORLD!! Wait until Sunday when this is confirmed before you start spreading your misformed lies, how do you know any of this at this point it’s all speculation…and as this is one of the biggest changes to the economy in the past 20 years I would hope that they nut out all the issues and compensation before making it policy, just because it’s been announced means nothing it just signals their intention to do the work…ever heard of a White Paper? they are documents which are produced even before legislation is drafted I personally am thankful that they would at least think about this before going ahead with it unlike Tony Abbott who’s decision to plant some trees and turn some soil (carbon capture and storage which is not included in international abatement targets and also clean coal) and then stick to it not even willing to make concessions and compensation to households as a result of the increase in GST and increase in Company Tax (to fund his Paid Parental Scheme which will do just as much damage as “The Big New Tax on Everything”) then I’m sorry…if you make a decision off the fly to look like your doing something then throw it in a pile of papers and never look at it again thats just incompetant and lazy…look at Sloppy Joe and Useless Robb no thanks you Libs can stay where you are…

    • graham says:

      10:26am | 08/07/11

      I’m glad Howard never made a decision whilst locked away in the Cabinet room with his stooges, (who never got to have a say), without inviting the media to participate. All of these up-themselves, wannabe upper-class, (“I vote Liberal, so I’m better than you”), pretenders would have hit the keyboard and protested vehemently, wouldn’t they. Wouldn’t they?
      I know it wasn’t scripted, but Abbott did say that he favoured a carbon tax, didn’t he. And now he says that he doesn’t. Did he lie? And if he did,(and he did), why aren’t those above named opportunists crying foul? Because they too are liars, just like their beloved leader, the puppet of Rome.
      No connection with all of that, but why not “gay boy”. That’s not a word a homophobic person would use, is it? Poofter, queer, deviate, pervert, names like that I would find hurtful if I was a homosexual, but gay boy? I think we are getting a little precious here. They perverted the language when they came up with the term, rather than using the truth. Now they, and their supporters, (sometimes called ‘closeteers), object, saying it is derogatory. Of course it is. They make it so.

    • Nath says:

      03:18pm | 08/07/11

      A foul play is a foul play. I cannot trust anybody left or right who doesn’t come to the table showing the cards when they ask for a seat in parliament. So have a re-election and play your cards and do it the right way. Because at the moment if your a labor supporter (i say labor because they are in power) your allowing yourself to be lied to and led down a dangerous path. I couldn’t care what Tony does right now because hes just barking up the tree while the cat “Meow” hangs the mouse.

    • Aussie Battler says:

      10:45am | 08/07/11

      Frank, if you would care to read my post, I said nothing against the Carbon Tax itself.  I merely commented on how low some people will go to push their agenda.  Whether we suffer or not is not my point.  I find it ridiculous that some are so scared that their viewpoint is not automatically accepted, they will stoop to what amounts to Blackmail. This is not lies as you put it, clearly recorded for prosperity in the media
      In regards to the “Possible” $23 per tonne price. Since the PM will not release any figures, whatever ANYONE says about it at this time is mere speculation. Although even a $10 per week Tax incentive will be welcome, it will not cover the extra expense proposed at this time. (Food/Power/Gas/Fuel Excise - yes I know petrol is not being hit by the Carbon Tax, however will have extra Excise put on top)

    • Dazeddazza says:

      10:51am | 08/07/11

      Just scrolled thru the comments, didnt read most of them as they were only personal attacks on others and to be quite honest, very boring and immature, no matter who takes part.

    • Deano says:

      05:21pm | 08/07/11

      A stitch up

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      07:01pm | 08/07/11

      Hi Mark,

      I have a feeling that most definitely carbon tax has been locked up for a long and long time for the time being!!  I presume we all should get our act together & concentrate to do the right thing for a cleaner environment & planet.  But it seems to be only on a piece of paper since the actual costs for the Federal Government of Australia are proving to be very high and there is mistrust and suspicion among the Australian voters as well as the general public it self.

      There has been so much emphasis on the carbon tax and the financial side of it that somehow, I am getting the feeling that so far all we have done as the general public and & Politicians themselves, has been “just talk” and that is all!!  We need more clarity when it comes to the information which is available to the general public.

      To get the actual facts we should study it well & look at our European counterparts.  How they have managed to do it for themselves without complaining about it endlessly, just because it is the right thing to do apart from the fact it is proving to be a financial gain or loss!! It is becoming a very touchy issue concerning the Federal Government as well as the Members of the Opposition.

      I truly believe easier said than done!!  We all have to do our homework very carefully if we want to do our bit for our planet just because it is the right thing to do & nothing else!!  Best regards to your editors.

    • Ron V. says:

      08:46pm | 08/07/11

      Pollution a problem :YES. Global warming or carbon dioxide emissions NO. And if it was a tax is not the answer. Why do we have to put up with the endless cronies on government payrolls who will promote their ideas and not want to debate them in an open forum with people who disagree with them. Interesting that those colleges who have disagreed, are no longer on the Government payroll. Now that the lame duck government has put a price on carbon, they should explain why the big three miners are exempt and why they have now nominated only 500 companies to pay the tax. If they are so sure that carbon dioxide is such a problem and that we are to be flooded caused by global warming, why not put a price of $500.00 or a $1,000.00 a ton on carbon instead of $23.00. And why go it alone. Beats me how this Government and the Greens, [I’ll give myself an uppercut later for even mentioning the word], can get on the same wave length. They sure don’t represent the majority of Australians. If they think they do, call an election and watch the result. Annihilation.
      Ron.

    • Chrissy says:

      09:10pm | 08/07/11

      How dumb does one have to be to believe that a tax will ever stabilize the earths climate?

    • Cat says:

      01:16pm | 11/07/11

      Verb: Make plans, esp. in a devious way or with intent to do something illegal or wrong. ETS (Economic Theft Setup) or rightly SFET (Scheme for Economic Theft) or MG Money Grab.  I’d rather play monopoly and win Mayfair.

 

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