When governments find themselves in a corner there are two things they will do in a bid to turn things around - try to spend their way out of trouble and buy votes, or resort to cheap populism.

Money, money, money.Photo:News.com.au

John Howard might be one of the greatest conservative PMs Australia ever had but he spent his way out of trouble at the 2001 and 2004 elections with billions and billions in outlays for families and the aged, much to the anger of his Treasurer Peter Costello who regarded Howard’s tactics as profligate and reckless.

When Mark Latham was making headway ahead of the 2004 poll with his populist call for an end to the MPs’ super gravy train, Howard stunned colleagues by simply copying Latham’s policy to neutralise the Labor leader’s surge. It was one of the few times Howard was ever confronted aggressively inside his cabinet, with foreign minister Alexander Downer denouncing the PM for caving in.

In the US right now President Barack Obama has changed from his tack of trying to buy votes with profligate stimulus spending, and is instead trying to generate revenue with a tax shake-up which is a transparent exercise in class war. When billionaire investor Warren Buffett said last month that he didn’t think it was fair that his secretary paid a higher proportion of her income in tax than he did, Obama used this as the rhetorical basis to propose radical increases in taxation on Americans earning more than $US200,000 per year.

The Gillard Government could not be any more unpopular. If it gets any less popular Julia Gillard might find herself out of the top job before the election anyway.

Against this backdrop the two-day tax summit, led by Treasurer Wayne Swan and starting today in Canberra, is the type of event which could be seized on by a desperate government to change the national debate.

It would not be remotely surprising if Gillard tried to connive a situation where an Obama-style assault on Australia’s so-called super rich, or big business itself, was one of the main policy outcomes.

The trade union movement is already laying some foundations for her should she choose to go down this populist path. In its submission to the summit the ACTU has compiled figures for the past decade showing that, from 2001 to 2011, a worker on an annual income of $52,430 has received a tax cut of $1492 per year. A worker earning $104,859 has received a tax cut of $3168, while a worker on $157,289 has pocketed $8420.

The ACTU seems to think that the difference in the tax breaks enjoyed by people on 50k and 100k is noteworthy, but it seems utterly unremarkable. The $100,000 worker has enjoyed just over twice the level of tax relief as the $50,000 worker, which seems completely fair. In the case of the $150,000 worker the ACTU’s crude figures also fail to take into account is the tapering down of welfare assistance as people rise up the salary scale and lose payments for childcare and incentives to take out private health cover.

The flipside of these superficially generous tax cuts enjoyed by people earning more than $150k is that these so-called super rich people are the ones who have been enlisted by the Gillard Government to bear the brunt of some of its most contentious policies.

As the carbon tax is introduced and the cost of living goes up there will be no relief whatsoever for these people as they pay higher power bills, more for travel, more for food.

While few disputed the need to help Queensland after this year’s floods and cyclones, the absence of a surplus meant the Gillard Government had to go down the path of introducing a levy. Australians earning more than $200,000 who will provide more than half of the $1.8 billion to rebuild Queensland.

Julia Gillard might be tempted to go down the path advocated by the unions, but her political standing is such that even many low-income earners would see such a move as desperate vote-grabbing. It doesn’t appear to be working for Obama as of yet and it is unlikely to work for her, certainly not to the extent that she needs it to.

The other problem she faces with this tax summit is the very live and pertinent question as to why we are having it at all. It promises to be quite the gabfest, and is hardly the first event of this kind which has taken place since 2007. One of the defining moments of Kevin Rudd’s prime ministership was his lofty and waffly 2020 summit, where aside from Hugh Jackman leading an all-in rendition of From Little Things Big Things Grow, nothing of memory happened and no actual policies of significance were introduced.

Former treasury secretary Ken Henry completed a review of the tax system less than two years ago anyway, and memorably the Rudd Government ignored several hundred of his recommendations and stumped for just eight, one of which, the mining tax, helped cost Rudd his job as PM.

It is not like the government has not been presented with some carefully thought out tax proposals already. As such the immediate suspicion is that this get-together, demanded as it was by the independents when they helped Gillard form government, is going to be typically long on hot air.

119 comments

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    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      08:59am | 04/10/11

      Spot on. 
       
      Yet another ALP talkfest. The bullshit meter will go off scale.

    • Kika says:

      09:17am | 04/10/11

      Isn’t it being run by the Oakshott?

    • Bruce says:

      09:28am | 04/10/11

      Me thinks,  ‘much a do about nothing’ !!

    • john says:

      09:53am | 04/10/11

      A $1m gob-fest - new heights of stupidity reached and its all official with staged concentric circle of tables dressed up to suck in the media masses. Timed beautifully to coincide with the 6’oclock news loaded with 4wd commercials, so obese parents can now watch themselves reverse over their kids with rear view camera’s.

      Roll up, roll up, the ALP show must go on!!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjedLeVGcfE&feature=related

    • Simonious says:

      10:19am | 04/10/11

      How can a tax summit that doesnt cover GST, the carbon tax and mining royalties tax be called a tax summit.

    • fairsfair says:

      10:44am | 04/10/11

      Claytons Tax Summit.

    • neo says:

      11:45am | 04/10/11

      Add scales of “over $200,000”, then increments of $200,000 all the way up to $10 mil or so, or something similar, and paying 60% tax is all right if you’re raking in the dough. Easy.

    • PTom says:

      11:59am | 04/10/11

      This is Oakshott request for a Tax forum.
      ALP does not really want it why do you think GST and MRRT are out.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:08pm | 04/10/11

      @ Simonius - ok have you no idea how dumb our current fake PM is? A ‘lawyer’ who didn’t understand the legal issues about the asylum seeker policy than was rejected by the High court. A backstabber than wanted power but had no idea how to do the job. A ‘genius’ who came up with the citizens summit on climate change and the cash for clunckers. A brilliant fake PM who keeps telling us health care reform is in the bag when she and her dumber partner in crime Roxon haven’t actually the numbers to show improvement except a spend-fest for her administration and union mates, well done bravo!

      It seems the carbon tax will destroy Gillard at the next election and than we can spend the rest of her life mocking her as our worst PM EVER (and she wasn’t even a real PM at all hahahahahahaha)!

      Love it baby! smile

    • mick says:

      07:47pm | 04/10/11

      Lets us all hope that it is a talkfest.  As usual business is at the conference crowing for tax cuts.  Don’t the rich have enough multi million dollar holiday homes yet?  And is the widening gap between rich and poor not wide enough.  The rich and their greed is sickening.  It never ends.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      09:11am | 04/10/11

      A suggestion, I think an opinion writer covering this topic ought to declare their financial interests at the bottom of the piece

    • dovif says:

      01:38pm | 04/10/11

      Something like the following

      David is a taxpayer and he pays tax.

      He just hopes that his tax is minimised and the Government waste less, so he has to pay less

      He also wish the government borrow less, so him and future Australian will have to pay less interest on those borrowing

      How is that?

    • iansand says:

      09:15am | 04/10/11

      Bob Carr politics.  When in trouble, announce something.  Again.  It is another symptom of the NSW disease that will have a terminal effect on Ms Gillard’s government.

    • IC says:

      09:18am | 04/10/11

      Let’s not do it, because David thinks it might not produce anything meaningful.

      I see.

      I know, let’s do nothing .... ever

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      12:21pm | 04/10/11

      well the governments record with these little ‘get togethers” does speak for itself

    • Kheiron says:

      12:48pm | 04/10/11

      The end result is the same either way. One option just takes the scenic route.

    • marley says:

      01:30pm | 04/10/11

      Nah, let’s not do the summit, let’s start implementing some of the Henry Review recommendations. The talkfest just gives another excuse to delay the changes already identifed as being needed..

    • Anna C says:

      09:20am | 04/10/11

      The tax summit is a complete waste of time and only going ahead to placate Rob Oakshott. This government has no intention of implementing some of the tax reforms recommended by Ken Henry is his tax review. If this government had any brains they would:

      * Limit Negative Gearing to new builds only and gradually phase it out over time.
      * Reduce Income Tax Rates.
      * Increase the GST.
      * Make all interest income derived from savings tax free to encourage savers.
      * Close all tax deduction loopholes e.g. why should a doctor be able to write off a $5000 so called working cruise from their taxes?
      *Stop screwing over PAYG tax payers who don’t tend to have masses of tax deductions that they can claim. 
      * Stop discriminating against singles and childless couples by getting rid of many of the deductions and rebates that families can claim because currently only about 48% of families pay zero net tax. 
      * Increase the tax rate that wealthy people pay when investing their money in super as the current rate tax rate of 15% is overly generous. 
      *Get rid of all middle class welfare.

    • Tubesteak says:

      09:29am | 04/10/11

      Agree with most of that. This gabfest will be useless.

      As a tax professional I would suggest we go even further: tax free threshold to be set at $30k. GST = 30%. Flat income tax rate of 30% over the threshold.

      Deductions on passive income investments to be limited to the amount of income earned = no negative gearing.

      No other charges or levies of any kind even in the states. No more middle class welfare.

    • Wickerman says:

      10:05am | 04/10/11

      @ Anna C - I agree totally with your list & your inital summary. As in it is another talkfest. But beware, I suspect congestion taxes & other road taxes are going to be targeted (increased). For clarification, does middle class welfare include maternity leave in your view?

    • PsychoHyena says:

      10:06am | 04/10/11

      Anna C, I’m a little uncertain regarding this comment:

      “Stop discriminating against singles and childless couples by getting rid of many of the deductions and rebates that families can claim because currently only about 48% of families pay zero net tax.”

      Are you saying that because the minority of families pay zero net tax, the majority of families should be screwed over?

      Let’s get rid of the tax breaks for those people putting extra into superannuation, let’s get rid of the tax breaks for those people who are near/should be retired who are drawing on their superannuation.

      Even better get rid of all tax-breaks. If you can afford Private Health Cover, that’s okay, you can continue paying the Medicare Levy. You spent thousands to improve your skills? well you can afford to lose the tax break.

    • Anna C says:

      11:20am | 04/10/11

      “For clarification, does middle class welfare include maternity leave in your view?”

      Wickerman you can have your Maternity Leave but I would want to remove all Family Tax Benefits or at least limit them to the first two children of any family and tighten the income test.

      I’m not sure about child care assistance but I would definitely not allow families to claim the cost of their Nannies against their taxes. No Siree Bob. That’s just a bridge too far.

    • Anna C says:

      11:25am | 04/10/11

      I forgot to add that I would also make the cost of public transport a tax deduction so that it would encourage workers to use public transport and reduce road congestion and improve air quality/environment.

    • Anna C says:

      11:42am | 04/10/11

      PsychoHyena, as a single person I am currently not entitled to any tax breaks/offsets/refunds because of my situation. The tax office should stop discriminating against singles and childless couples and stop expecting us to support other people’s lifestyle choices. If you have children then good for you but don’t expect me to pay more taxes to support families so that you can better afford the lifestyle that they have become accustomed to, thanks to John Howard middle class welfare largess. I can’t claim things like Family Tax Benefit, Child Care Assistance, Maternity Leave, Baby Bonuses, Children’s Education Expenses etc. This stuff all adds up. 

      With 48% of families paying zero net tax it is putting more pressure and strain on remaining taxpayers to pull up the slack left by these families.  This isn’t good. The government should be broadening the tax base not reducing it.

    • Tubesteak says:

      01:24pm | 04/10/11

      PsychoHyena

      Families should fund their own lifestyles. No materinity leave payments. No carer’s benefits. No FTBs. No childcare benefits. None of it. At all.

      Taxation should be for provisioning of health, education, infrastructure. We need to get back to basics and stop wasting money to buy votes.

    • PW says:

      03:12pm | 04/10/11

      The thing with paying your income into super at concessional tax rates is that it means you become a self funded retiree in years to come and not a burden on the public purse. This is why this tax break exists. If it didn’t there would be much less to go round in pensions in future years. What needs to be looked at is the practice of drawing down super prior to retirement.

      Much the same applies to deduction of expenses on investment properties. Those who save in this way won’t need to leech on the public purse in retirement. But yes, maybe it should be limited to the income earned.

      What is never mentioned is CGT on the residential home. And a nice little earner it is too, the more your home is worth, the more you make completely tax free. If its good enough for shareholders and landlords, it should be good enough for everyone.

    • Ben says:

      03:46pm | 04/10/11

      Very surprised that so many of you in this thread are completely against family support payments. I can only assume that you:

      1. Don’t have children.
      2. Don’t want children.
      3. Are millionaires in your own right.
      4. Or just have no idea about the tax system.

      The ‘oh woe is me’ argument from singles and childless families is a bit trite.

    • iMitchy says:

      03:51pm | 04/10/11

      Everyone knocking the Family tax benefits and Baby bonus…

      When you have a child, household income is generally halved as one parent has to take leave or quit their job to take on the role of caring for the child/children. In the end, they have helped to secure the future of the country by manufacturing future taxpayers - and they have made the commitment to forego their own present income and future career prospects to do so. They deserve compensation.
      (Note that this is in regard to middle class welfare, not unemployed people already on welfare as it would contradict a statement in Tory’s article today).

      FYI My vested interest:
      Household income dropped from roughly $140K to $70K when our daughter was born. That’s one more mouth to feed and clothe as well as slight increase in household utilities, health cover premium, changing the car to something with four doors, cots, prams, maternity clothes for the missus etc, obstetrics bills…. as well as all the normal household bills (at least we didn’t need to rent a bigger house).
      To minimise my wife’s time out of the workforce, we decided to get pregnant again within a year of the birth of our daughter and finish our family. Got pregnant with twins.
      Three baby seats won’t fit in a standard back seat so we had to buy a van (supposed to pick it up today), have been living with the in-laws to try to save for a house deposit (now it’s just stuck at the in-laws trying to stay afloat - goodbye house), and all the baby stuff that we planned to hand-me-down will only cover half of our needs, as well as having to upgrade our daughters bedroom furniture as she grows out of it.

      Our kids will come of age oneday and pay the benefits all back via their taxes and then some. I support middle class benefits as they give back to the taxpayer. The payments that allow intergenerational unemployment benefit welfare reliance are the ones that should be scrapped.
      The real battlers are the ones with fight left in ‘em.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      04:30pm | 04/10/11

      @iMitchy- More BS from selfish middle class family welfare junkies
      A) Nobody is having kids “for the country”
      B) It would be a lot cheaper to import an adult sans dependents.
      C) Nobody can guarantee that their kid will be a positive taxpayer / contributor in 18-21 years time. It depends upon the economic climate at the time.
      The middle class family welfare junkies are parasites on singles and childless couples to fund their lifestyle. You breed them, you feed them and all the rest.

    • Kika says:

      04:40pm | 04/10/11

      HEY! No one asked you to have kids. In the past people had kids of their own volition and means. I detest having the tax payer support my family planning choices and I don’t believe that the previous system of doling out ‘bonuses’ encourage the right sort of people to breed. The new paid maternity system helps Mums get back to the workforce.

      What I can’t understand is why the same amount of money can’t go into building more childcare centres and legislating the rights for Mums to work from home. If I had a baby I would get back working at 6 months if I could work from home. That way I can lactate and work at the same time.

    • iMitchy says:

      05:25pm | 04/10/11

      Shane, my point is that, as a taxpayer, I would rather see benefits going to taxpayers than those who do not pay tax (for extended periods for no other reason than laziness), whether that be in the form of welfare or a tax break.
      When welfare becomes a disincentive to get off your ass and get a job or becomes an incentive to keep having kids so you don’t have to - then it becomes a problem.
      I pay more tax in a year than we will get back in total benefits for having kids. As a matter of fact I doubt that the benefits we receive would even cover the tax built into the price of all the extra expenses we now have.

      Whilst no-one asked us to have children, the government certainly wants us to - I believe 2.4 per couple is the amount to keep our economy sustainable.

      As far as importing people, whether we like it or not we are. $4000 per week the government is spending on supporting their smoking habits alone I read in news today. Not that cheap…

    • Geez... says:

      06:22pm | 04/10/11

      @iMitchy…Let me guess

      The house you are saving for is a two story, five bedroom all with en suites, home theatre and pool. The new van you pick up today is brand new and top of the range. Your kids clothes and bedroom furniture have to be all designer inspired.
      My wife never worked after the birth of first child, two years after we married. After three more children, we still managed to buy a nice three bedroom house with one bathroom and a big back yard for the kids to play. Never owned a new car until I retired last year when we lashed out. We managed to pay for all four children to be educated at private schools. Our holidays were camping at Xmas on the beach about an hours drive from home. My four kids are now married with kids of their own…they all work hard and live within their means, they don’t whine and moan for handouts from the government…maybe it is their upbringing.
      If you were my son in law, iMtichy, on $70G a year.. you would not be bludging off me or the government.

    • Northern Steve says:

      07:01am | 05/10/11

      Family benefits are excessive. Some form of family benefit is both necessary and productive. Today’s children are paying for your future health care.
      As far as super goes, tax concessions should be dropped. The money the government loses on the tax concessions is greater than it would spend in pensions for self-funded refugees. To sum up, people who can’t afford super are subsidizing those who can. Just wrong.

    • iMitchy says:

      10:00am | 05/10/11

      @ Geez,
      Your assumption could not be further from the truth.
      Much to my wife’s dismay I’ve always wanted a fixer upper house in a quiet outer suburb - and stairs and pools aren’t the best idea when you have 3 kids under 2. We already have all the furniture we need, it’s sitting in storage while we stay with the in-laws.
      I will never ever buy a new car as you lose at least 20% the moment you drive it off the lot. We got a 2003 Kia Carnival for $9K. How much are they brand new? Took out an extended warranty too.
      Private schooling is a point of discussion for my wife and I. She went private and is now a stay at home mum. I went public, skipped uni and now work alongside engineers in the oil and gas industry (after shutting my own business 18 months ago to free up time to spend with my new daughter and improve our chances of being approved a mortgage).
      After some of the posts here I am glad we are claiming these payments legally entitled to us. I don’t really give a rats if it upsets you all with your preconceptions of what middle-class is.
      I have achieved so much in the 6 or so years since leaving school and if I can legally claim an extra $1 that can go towards my childrens future, I’ll do it.
      I’m sure you all have done much, much worse things.

    • Simonious says:

      12:49pm | 05/10/11

      Shane and Anna. We dont fund your lifestyle. Are you both that naive you think the government would reduce the tax you pay because they are not giving rebates to taxpayers with children. What you are suffering from is jealousy because someone is getting something you dont get and that really hurts. Grow up. Go and raise a family and see how much its costs. And before you rip into me i recieve nothing in tax breaks or rebates ( except private health rebate because i chose to have better coverage than medicare) from the government because I earn way to much ( yes i get stung more medicare levies even though i do something about my own health insurance) . I paid more tax last month than you both of you probably earnt and I for one dont begrudge a family a rebate on their tax because raising kids costs a lot of money.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      01:06pm | 05/10/11

      I am so sick of people telling me that their children are going to support me in my retirement.  If thats the case then fine, have your middle class welfare payments (though how you can accept welfare you dont need and retain any self respect is beyond me).  So with your children supporting me in my retirement, I guess I can now cancel all those extra payments I have been putting into my super.  In fact my employer can also stop contributing, thanks to your kids.
      Children are a CHOICE.  There are plenty of people begging to get into our country who have already lived through the non-productive childhood years and who are now skilled, qualified and ready to contribute to the nation.  Your children are an unecessary burden and YOU should be the only person footing the bill.  You had a child because you thought it would make your life better.  If I buy a ferrari can I expect you to help with the servicing costs?

    • iMitchy says:

      01:52pm | 05/10/11

      @Seth Brundle,
      If you are already making extra super contributions then aren’t we already paying for your retirement as the government “chips in” extra when you do?

    • Sandra says:

      07:36pm | 05/10/11

      IMitchy, as a taxpayer I do not begrudge assistance to children.  Indeed, taxes should help children through the provision of better schools, better health services, ob/gyn and prenatal care. I can see how such services actually DO help with our nation’s future. If children are, as you argue, social goods, then taxpayers’ assistance for children should be socialised.

      Indeed, ending spending the whopping billions now used for middle-class welfare vote and providing sore social **services** solely for children may be more efficient at ending the “intergenerational unemployment benefit welfare reliance” you despise. It would provide jobs in teaching and contruction. Increasing the number of schools will mean smaller classroom sizes and the density of schools. Hell! Hopefully the li’l darlings will WALK to school, build friendships (and bone density) and take so many extra vehicles off our congested roads.

      What is objectionable that, as a childfree person, is that I am subjected to a regressive system where many people like me on modest incomes are forces to subsidise the whooping gobs of private wads of cash that is funnelled in relatively wealthier households just because those householders have children. There are too many modern parents who cannot accept (or have been encultured by successive governments ) that they cannot maintain their pre-child consumption habits and it is only right that someone, anyone but them, picks up the tab.

      Unlike the taxpayer funded public services such as infrastructure, medical services and law and order I can access at any time, your children are privately enjoyed by you…yet you demand I pay you for that?

      Yes, becoming a parent means that you may have to alter your consumption of adult goods because that is the opportunity cost of being a parent.  The “compensation” you say you so richly deserve comes to you in the form of the very children that you enjoy. If going without your material needs or if the career sacrifice is too much, then do not have kids. No-one is forcing you to do it.

      To recap—I do not begrudge assistance to children. That is, assistance directly to *children* and not private cash handed to their parents at the direct expense of the childless working poor, so that parents can service their debts to maintain their middle-class aspirant consumption choices.

    • Tiger says:

      12:52pm | 06/10/11

      @Ben
      you conveniently (?) left out the option that perhaps some of us are not able to have children, as much as we would dearly love to. don’t make assumptions in situations you know nothing about.

      isn’t the issue of having children all about parental responsibility? as in, your child - your responsibility, in every sense? we all pay tax that goes toward schools, roads, public buildings, that everyone is able to enjoy, even though my children will never use them. but raising kids? if you can’t afford it, cross your legs!

    • iMitchy says:

      02:09pm | 06/10/11

      @Sandra,
      Good debating skills. I liked what you said.
      And I know no-one asked me to have kids and they don’t think they should be paying for my choices. I don’t think you should have to pay for my choices either.

      But at the heart of the subject for me is the fact that none of us are going to get a tax cut - whether all middle-class welfare is cut off tomorrow or all welfare is cut of tomorrow.
      I really consider the Family Benefit a tax refund (think about it, I give the government money each month when I get paid, then give me money, the form of the payment is not important). I know some people like to get on the moral high horse but truth is those who are willing to receive what the system is willing to give them have no trouble sleeping at night.
      The government makes the rules and I play by them. And I’m playing to win. Take what you can get I say, the opportunites to get your tax cut are out there - just don’t feel guilty about taking it because of what it says at the top of the cheque.

    • Kika says:

      09:20am | 04/10/11

      If they achieve something out of it good. We’re one of the highest taxed countries in the world yet we get nothing back from it except for governments using it as their savings funds, sorry, ‘surplus’.

    • JE says:

      10:27am | 04/10/11

      Julia, get back to your conference, and don’t forget to place your copy of the HENRY TAX REVIEW into the garbage bin on your way in

    • TimB says:

      10:49am | 04/10/11

      Sorry where was this surplus? Haven’t seen one for a few years.

      Oh that’s right. You actually need to have a competent treasurer to pull that one off.

      It’s funny. People here are constantly telling us about our low unemployment, our booming economy, you’re talking about all these taxes (although aren’t you in favour of the carbon tax ? Odd). Everything is apparently going swimmingly and we should all just shut up and stop whinging.

      ...and yet Swannie still can’t bring down that elusive surplus. Oh dear, oh dear. Incompetence thy name is Wayne.

    • Esteban says:

      12:02pm | 04/10/11

      Peter. We may not be the highest taxed country in the world but we are certainly not amongst the lowest.

      Your link only showed the mean tax rates of different countries. If you were to look up Tax to GDP ratios it will show a different story.

      Whilst mean tax rates are interesting to look at nothing beats actual tax receipts from all levels of government compared to GDP.

      I think you will agree we are Taxed Enough Already.

    • Peter says:

      01:25pm | 04/10/11

      @Esteban, really?  Not according to this 2006 report published by Treasury entitled “International Comparison of Australia’s Taxes” which compares Australia’s tax burden with the rest of the OEC countries.  Here’s a quote from the Executive Summary:

      “The report shows that Australia is a low-tax country. Australia’s overall tax burden (31.6 per cent), measured as the tax to GDP ratio, is the eighth lowest of the 30?member OECD. Australia’s mix between direct and indirect taxation is in line with other OECD countries, although the composition differs. For example, Australia’s indirect tax mix differs through a lower reliance on value-added and sales taxes, and a relatively higher reliance on property and transaction taxes, further, Australia does not levy any wealth, estate, inheritance or gift taxes.”

      Read it at http://comparativetaxation.treasury.gov.au/content/report/html/02_Executive_Summary.asp

      Or we can just go on believing our delusions.

    • dovif says:

      01:41pm | 04/10/11

      Peter

      If you think you are paying too little tax, send a cheque to Julia and Wayne, and Wayne sure did not know when they might have ever, or will ever balance the book

    • Just Sayin' says:

      01:54pm | 04/10/11

      Peter.

      That chart shows 30 countries. You know there are a lot more than 30, right?

      That chart shows that we are one of the highest on corporate tax

      That chart uses 2005 figures.  I.e. before a whole bunch of new taxes were introduced.

      That chart represents income tax rates, and does not take into account the myriad of other taxes and charges we pay to three levels of government.

      In short, that chart is meaningless in the context of a tax summit.

      The table below is a little harder to interpret in terms of rankings, but Australia appears to have the 29th highest corporate tax out of 142 countries.

    • Peter says:

      02:28pm | 04/10/11

      @dovif - where did I say i thought we were paying too little?  Just making the point that before one rants that we are a high taxed country, they should do a 20 second google search to find out that, guess what, we aren’t.

      @Just Sayin’ - i think you will find that most meaningful comparisons in respect of the australian economy to the rest of the world will only look the OECD countries because they are more relevant to ours.  As for your point about corporate tax, I agree it is higher in comparison than our individual taxes (and ranks higher relative to other countries) but you will see from the Report I referenced above that it is still in line with the rest of the OECD when the full statutory tax rates are taken into account (see Chart 8).  But the salient point is that overall, Australia is a low-taxed country as noted above.  You simply cannot argue with that fact.

    • Kika says:

      03:34pm | 04/10/11

      TIM B - why do we need a surplus?  I don’t pay my tax so the government can have their own piggy bank to use as electoral leverage. I pay tax for the money to go back into the community to make sure we all have a decent quality of life.  Look at the Scandinavian countries.

    • iMitchy says:

      05:09pm | 04/10/11

      Shouldn’t comparitive tax rates take into account cost of living?
      The underlying factor is really how far you can get on your disposable income.

      To the visible income tax rate you can add 10% of any amount you spend (GST) plus stamp duties on certain big ticket items, huge amounts of the price tag of any ciggarettes and alcohol you buy, taxes on petrol etc. Superannuation is taxed on the interest it earns, then taxed when you draw it, then taxed when you spend it (as per above).

      What proportion of the money that we call “net” income is actually redistributed directly (does not become income tax of the seller) to governments as tax when we spend it?

      Also take into account that tipping, which is income often not taxed, is not a custom regularly performed in Australia. In some countries, some people may get taxed 60% on their wages but may make over 50% of their income from tips. Suddenly it’s 30% of gross income.
      Then you have countries like Greece where asking for a receipt will have you laughed at - it’s all under the table. Of course the tax rates of what little income they actually declare will be taxed at a higher rate. We still end up with comparitively less in our back pocket due to all the hidden taxes we pay.
      Income tax has remained relatively low because it is always the main focal point for comparitive purposes and the one that voters look to first. Keeping this one tax down has been deliberate, and there has never been income tax cuts without new hidden taxes popping up somewhere else shorly afterwards.

      We are one of the highest taxed countries, you would just never guess that it’s our net income that’s is getting stripped.

    • TimB says:

      05:16pm | 04/10/11

      We use it so we have money stashed away for the lean times. It’s called saving. Just like in any household budget.

      You know how you guys keep giving credit to Swan for staving off the effects of the GFC? He did that with the money saved from the previous Coalition government’s surplus.

      So still think we don’t need a surplus? Or are you going to admit that the government’s actions during the GFC were unneccesary and wasteful? Your call.

    • acotrel says:

      09:59am | 05/10/11

      @TimB
      About the surplus:
      ‘We use it so we have money stashed away for the lean times. It’s called saving. Just like in any household budget.’

      You are obviously not in business? - Spend a dollar to make a dollar !  - It’s fundamental business management - we are running a country, not your miserable household !

    • RyaN says:

      09:30am | 04/10/11

      Now that is unfair Penbo, just look at how much Cate Blanchette and the 2020 talkfest achieved at our expense. Oh wait!

    • Anna C says:

      11:47am | 04/10/11

      I’m surprised that Carbon Cate hasn’t been invited to the Tax Summit. I’m sure her invitation is in the post. Our politicians do love a good photo opportunity after all.

    • Joan says:

      09:38am | 04/10/11

      This is a Gillard/Swan cavein to Oakeshott demand 2010 . It originated with Oakeshoot so don’t expect more than a gab fest- that`s what Oakeshott is all about- Gillard just pandering to the guy. How much is this Oakshott gab fest costing the tax payer? Forget Henry`s Tax plan - go with Oakshott Gillard way in 2011. What a joke.

    • Seanr says:

      09:42am | 04/10/11

      I posted this in the Open Thread but I’ll repost here.

      I would like to know how we can have a tax forum where Wayne Swan states he “would welcome all ideas put forward” and then says no discussion on GST, mining tax or carbon tax. My main one is the GST (there’s been enough discussion about the other two).
      If we are going to simplify the tax system, then increasing the GST needs to be considered especially if the aim is to be revenue neutral and get rid of some of the taxes, particularly in the State tax system

    • Steve says:

      10:00am | 04/10/11

      its a gabfest and set up to fail - the agenda gives more time to opening remarks and speeches from government representatives and to coffee breaks than to any one area of taxation.  Business taxation gets two hours but there is a 30 minute coffee break beforehand.  It starts late, finishes early. 

      Another pointer - generally, the submissions on the forum’s website are underdone, even from the biggest associations who saw that it was a waste of time.

    • Tator says:

      10:27am | 04/10/11

      David,
      when the OECD states that Australia already has the 2nd most progressive income tax regime in the OECD behind the US indicates that the high income earners are paying their way compared to the rest of the OECD.
        ( http://dx.doi.org/10.1787/422013187855 ) .
        When the ACTU state that the wealthy get more of a tax break - that is because they pay a shitload more tax than anyone else both in quantity and relativity.  Considering that in 2008/09, the “rich” (top 2% of income earners) paid 22.8% of total income tax receipts, yet it took the bottom 65% of income earners to contribute the same amount of tax revenue. Plus the top 2% earned 12.8% of total net income compared to the bottom 65% which earned 39.2% of total income. 
      (http://www.ato.gov.au/corporate/content.aspx?menuid=0&doc;=/content/00268761.htm&page=8#P378_13499 )
      Then you have the 42% of Australian families who pay no net income tax due to welfare churn where they receive more welfare benefits like Family tax benefit than they pay in tax.  Then there is the LITO. From 1 July 2010 it provides individuals earning less than $30,000 with a tax rebate of $1,500. The full offset is reduced by 4c for every dollar of taxable income above $30,000, meaning incomes greater than $67,500 do not receive any benefit. The LITO creates an effective tax-free threshold of $16,000 for low income earners.
        With regard to the Tax Summit, having seen the invite list where people like Bob Brown and the rest of the cross benchers get invited and no one from the Federal Coalition is invited. My prediction is that they will be pushing for increased taxes for the “wealthy” which will bite those on middle incomes who already pay the bulk of income tax receipts.  We already have the Carbon tax and Flood levy aimed at mid to high income earners - those earning more than $80k, who already pay around 53% of total income tax, will be paying more tax.
         
      There is a considerable imbalance in the summit attendees between those who actually generate tax revenue and those who consume taxes and the whole summit has a left wing bias throughout with only 45 industry groups compared to 39 community groups, 13 unions reps, the Federal Government reps, the Greens and other cross benchers, the 26 academics of which there are mainly keynesian economists and leave out those who have been critical of the government in the past such as the RBA’s Professor McKibben or Professor Tony Makin of Griffith Uni, let alone libertarians such as Professors Davidson, Sloane and Kates. So without an ideological balance, there will be more tax eaters lobbying for increased taxes for their pet programs and less input from those who actually generate that tax revenue.
      Plus this summit isn’t even looking at taxes such as the GST, MRRT and Carbon tax whereas it should be looking at everything in a holistic view with how these taxes will interact with other taxes and charges.
       
      IMHO, the tax and transfers system needs a full review as there is far too much churn and far too few people actually paying net tax and with an aging population, the tax base needs to be broadened and not narrowed so people are paying a fair amount of tax. A fair tax system is one where the tax rate is at a fair enough level so people and companies are actually incentivised to earn as much as possible as if a tax is too burdensome, companies and people will resort to minimising incomes to reduce their tax burden.  The Henry review was a start but in the end was hamstrung by the Rudd Government not allowing it to look at the GST and Rudd and Swan only cherry picked items from it.  Also to be included in this review should be all state based taxes and charges as well as the Federal systems as they can have just as much deleterious effects on the economies of their states compared to the revenue that they generate.

    • PTom says:

      02:42pm | 04/10/11

      So almost 6 Million people paid 27 billion in income tax earning less then $56,000 a year, while less then 200,000 paid 26 billion in income tax earning more then $180,000.

      There is also some interesting thing.
      Like those that actual declared there income is less then 10 million but we have had a participation rate of above 60% that should be around 12 Million(20 milion). That means all most 2 million people did not declare any income tax that year.

      There is also the fact between income and taxable income a 30 billion of non-taxable income.

    • Tator says:

      04:21pm | 04/10/11

      PTom,
      not sure where the missing 2 million income earners are, but I can tell you that the difference between the gross income and taxable income only works out to around $3000 a taxpayer.  Considering that not all income is taxable (just look at your tax deduction lists) 3k on average isn’t excessive as you have people like tradies who run vehicles and travelling expenses plus have comprehensive tool sets which can cost in the thousands, self education expenses are possibly a big deduction as well.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      11:25am | 04/10/11

      Ho Hum, another gabfest. Unless the summit looks at tax and welfare in total then it will be useless. Why should the tax system / welfare system screw over singles and childless couples in favor of middle class families? Why should the singles and childless couples subsidize the breeders lifestyle? Another thing- convening a tax summit after pushing through a carbon tax- surely that is ass backwards?

    • Phill says:

      11:52am | 04/10/11

      This will have the same productivity of the 20/20 Summit.  Remeber allt eh idea’s that came out of that?  How many have been followed up?
      A tax summit that does not discuss all taxes just because the government is scared of scrutiny is just another waste of money.

    • jg says:

      11:58am | 04/10/11

      Wow, an article on the Gillard taxgab and you guessed it, Penbo starts with an, albeit minor, rant about Howard.

      But seriously, another 20/20 summit? Another ‘seen to be doing something’ event?

      A tax forum that doesn’t dicuss the GST, mining tax, Carbon tax?

      What’s the point?

      Besides, it wasn’t long ago that Rudd comissioned a review into the tax system by Ken henry, of which the government took absolutely no heed of the recommendations.

      Again, what’s the point?

    • Biotene says:

      12:13pm | 04/10/11

      On Oct 4 and 5 2011, The Tax Forum and on Oct 6 2011 The Jobs Forum are definitely game changers.
      On October 1 2011, the Grand Final game was Australian Rules football.
      On October 2 2011, The Grand Final game was Rugby League Football.
      On October 4,5,& 6 2011 ,The Grand Final is political football ,economic football, and brains football.

    • Biotene says:

      12:18pm | 04/10/11

      As usual, Liberal National Coalition are missing politically and economically when it matters most for Australia.Hence the mass media will label the Tax Forum and the Jobs Forum as ” useless talk festivals”.
      If the forums were Coalition Forums , the mass media would say they were “extremely valuable gold medal ideas summits worthy of a great popular competent futuristic forward looking worthwhile government”

    • Biotene says:

      12:22pm | 04/10/11

      Your comment:The Tax Forum and The Jobs forum will be the only reasons Labor wins the next election easily. The Coalition and the mass media have now missed the bus and will miss the next federal election . Labor will now win the next federal election on Sept 8 2013.
      The mass media and the Coalition will rue the day that they missed these forums. It was a bad mistake!

    • Zopo says:

      12:23pm | 04/10/11

      Im sure we will get the same results as we did from the 20/20 summit a coupleof years back that ol K.Rudd organised - absolutely zilch

    • Richard says:

      12:25pm | 04/10/11

      Good article.

      Look, I have a suggestion that politicians would wisely pay attention to:

      The politics of class warfare and wealth envy are no longer effective in modern times. Nobody supports tax policies that punish the successful anymore.

      Definitely, in the Industrial ages, such “tax the rich, give to the poor” policies were very popular, and were able to command much support. But this is now the “information age”, it has been since at least 1990, if not before hand.

      In the information age, ANYONE is potentially the next millionaire success story. EVERYONE has the ability now to acquire the appropriate education and knowledge they need, get access to the necessary capital, arrange the appropriate logistics, advertise effectively to a market, and ultimately be successful in whatever entrepreneurial endeavour they desire.

      Nowadays, the simple laziness inherent in Ged’s old world lament about boring full-time jobs is being recognised as the anachronism it is. There is less security in today’s economy, but more potential, more excitement. ANYONE can succeed.

      Which is why these tax the rich policies of class envy are so unpopular. these days: because EVERYBODY can envisage the day when they too will be successful and wealthy, and they want to enjoy the rightful rewards from all the hard work and creative imagineering they justly deserve.

      Labor and left-wing politics ultimately requires you to be poor, to be dependent, to be pathetic, relying on your governmental masters for handouts like a dog. Rebel against them, workers of the world, embrace laissez-faire free market libertarian capitalism: you have nothing to lose but your chains!

    • andye says:

      01:31pm | 04/10/11

      @Richard - “The politics of class warfare and wealth envy are no longer effective in modern times. Nobody supports tax policies that punish the successful anymore.”

      If taxes were increased for the poor and decreased for the rich right now, a lot of the rich business owners would go broke. Who are the customers? Is it the rich that are spending most of their money on goods and services? No, they are investing and buying property and so on.

      The “trickle down” theory has never really worked. Tax breaks for the rich never really equate to more jobs and businesses. The money has to be out there with the consumers moving around the economy.

    • Tator says:

      02:30pm | 04/10/11

      Andye,
      it is difficult to decrease income taxes to the poor here in Australia as they don’t pay any due to the LITO.  And when 42% of Australian families also pay no net income tax it increases the burden on those paying net taxes.
      ” they are investing and buying property and so on.”
      Don’t you realise by investng and buying property still puts money into the economy.  They may not be spending all of their money on goods and services but by investing they are providing capital for people to use to provide jobs and for banks to use for financing things like mortgages etc.  Plus by buying property, it is still keeping money in the economy as the vendor receives payment and it is back in circulation.
      Plus “Trickle down” economics as described by Reagan was for when he cut the top bracket of tax rates from 70 % for those earning $250k or more to 50 % in the dollar or basically the same as those earning $100k.  He also cut the bottom rate from 18% to 15%  and the second lowest from 24%  to 15% and in effect removing the top and bottom brackets.
      So it was a cut from a draconian rate to a rate which is still considered high but still had enough incentive for people want to earn more money without resorting to tax minimisation techniques or going overseas to tax havens such as Monaco or the Cayman Islands as many very high income earners did during the 70’s and 80’s

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      02:46pm | 04/10/11

      More Ayn Rand BS. Wealth equates to power and the only outcome is that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Let’s deconstruct your BS:
      “EVERYONE has the ability now to acquire the appropriate education and knowledge they need, get access to the necessary capital, arrange the appropriate logistics, advertise effectively to a market, and ultimately be successful in whatever entrepreneurial endeavour they desire.”
      Education and Knowledge costs money. The more money you have for sending your kid to private schools and through university, the better the educational outcome will be (unless the kid is exceptionally lazy). Access to capital usually requires assets or a steady income. Unless you are talking about a NINJA loan or a third world microloan bank. Advertising costs money, Lobbying politicians costs money etc.
      The deck is stacked in the upper class favor. Always has been and always will be (except for a few odd revolutions here and there)

    • Tator says:

      05:01pm | 04/10/11

      Shane,
      so what you are saying is that a public school education is useless and condemns a person to poverty.  Not everyone who goes to a private school comes from a wealthy family and many people actually work harder and longer just to send their children to private schools.  But that is not the point.  In Australia, the public school system as a whole, is good enough to get people out of welfare traps, it is just that they have to want to get out of these traps as many are there by choice. 
      There are not too many employers who discriminate against job applicants on what school system they attended, more likely they will be looking at the academic results each applicant got rather than what school they went to and the old school tie network isn’t really the same as it used to be in the 70’s and 80’s due to tertiary education being more readily available.

    • Dodge says:

      05:26pm | 04/10/11

      @Tator. The Reagan tax agenda is an interesting one to cite given how much he changed his stance in the following years in the face of mounting deficit pressure. He reclaimed more than half the original cuts with new taxes. Tax revenue as a % of GDP (18% it is 23 now, which is still some of the lowest in the Western World) levelled off during Reagan’s whole reign and government spending went up… Anyway, you certainly sound convinced by his approach.

      Richard’s comments on how ‘everyone can be rich’ is baffling.  Just ‘skill up and market your wares’ apparently. No mate, Capitalism relies on that fact not being possible.  Someone’s gotta dig those trenches and police those warehouses and fire fight those offices…

      And perhaps in your world the focus is on generating wealth as this post appears to insinuate, but in mine it is being a an industrious and innovative worker, treating people well and loving your friends and family.

    • Tator says:

      07:31pm | 04/10/11

      Dodge,
      I didn’t like Reagans spending habits but his philosophy about cutting the top rate of tax had a very sharp point to it.  Nobody likes working hard and seeing someone else get more benefit from it than themselves and tax rates over 50% have a braking effect on the top end as people will try anything to minimise the governments take on their income.  I have posted previously about tax rates and how if you tax people what they consider a fair amount, they will keep on trying to increase their income and at the same time, pay more tax, but tax these aspirational people too much, and they will shut up shop or try to minimise their incomes as not to pay as much tax.
        Plus with the disparity between the capital gains tax and income tax meant the well off just moved into buying and selling assets that grew in value rather than worked for a living thus paying a lot less tax.  For example, this is how Warren Buffett pays a lower tax rate than his secretary as his income is derived purely from trading shares and the associated capital gains he makes on those shares.

      BTW I don’t believe Richard was saying everyone can be rich, IMHO he is stating that anyone in Australian Society can become rich through hard work and education, there are no actual class barriers, just look at the current generation of Cashed Up Bogans who are just hard working tradies or miners.  With the educational opportunities available to everyone via TAFE and other Tertiary institutions, basically anyone who is willing to knuckle down can improve on their job in life as nobody is forced to remain in low paying jobs anymore.  Plus demographics actually provides replacements for those leaving those entry level/low paid jobs as one generation replaces another.  Not everyone can be a vice president from day one of their career, many have to start at the bottom and work up, and many actually have a call to service and end up as coppers/firies/ambos/military/teachers/nurses and public servants.  Not everyone has the will power to follow their aspiration to be rich, but it is not because society is holding them back as the basic tools are provided to everyone and it is up to them whether they take full advantage of lifes opportunities.  Many are not unhappy with being a pleb with no responsibilities and a low paying job as that is what suits them, some need more of a challenge and work at challenging themselves throughout their life and they are the ones who end up with the rewards of wealth.

    • Tator says:

      08:04pm | 04/10/11

      Dodge,
      In addition, Reagan didn’t just raise corporate tax rates, he recognized the difference between just plain raising taxes and simplifying the tax code to cut out loopholes that subsidize corporations. In 1984, he arranged to bring in $50 billion over three years, mainly by closing these loopholes. His 1986 reform act not only included $120 billion in tax hikes for corporations over five years, it also closed $300 billion worth of corporate loopholes.  Plus Real gross domestic product (GDP) growth recovered strongly after the early 1980s recession ended in 1982, and grew during his eight years in office at an annual rate of 3.85% per year.

    • Dodge says:

      09:59am | 05/10/11

      Continuning to cite Reagan is actually quite fine by me Tator. Relative to Bush, Ford and Bush Jnr he’s quite an amicable fellow who did a lot of good for America - much like Clinton yet on a different Political platform. The statistics speak for themselves on both sides of the Political fence. What makes Reagan detestable is the shady dealing with terrorists and the like. Fiscal conservatism is the best asset conservatives bring to the table.

      “I have posted previously about tax rates and how if you tax people what they consider a fair amount, they will keep on trying to increase their income and at the same time, pay more tax, but tax these aspirational people too much, and they will shut up shop or try to minimise their incomes as not to pay as much tax.”

      I don’t believe that in the slightest and is simply a right-wing mantra. This has proven to be wrong in numerous countries. There are millionaires scattered across all of Scandanavia with some place having a 50% tax rate in the highest bracket.

      Communism proved to us that you just cannot suppress the want for humans to improve, to become better, to increase wealth and incomes. I know plenty of rich conservatives in Australia as I know rich liberals. It’s the same ridiculous line of reasoning conservatives in the States try… As if increasing taxes 4% (still to some of the lowest in the world) will ‘cripple’ business and no longer incentivize the rich to become even wealthier - it’s just nonsense.

      In fact, I believe the opposite - don’t provide programs for the poor, don’t provide safety nets and you will cost society through crime, through poverty and a general unhappy malaise that permeates those groups. Surely Australia with such prodigiously low unemployment while still having high taxes proves that society can still expand under what conservatives deem to be ‘draconian’ taxation levels.

      “just look at the current generation of Cashed Up Bogans who are just hard working tradies or miners.”

      Please explain? Seems someone is playing ‘class warfare’.

      “Not everyone has the will power to follow their aspiration to be rich, but it is not because society is holding them back as the basic tools are provided to everyone and it is up to them whether they take full advantage of lifes opportunities.”

      Oh ok, ao all folks have an aspiration to be rich? Some just choose not to pursue it? Frankly, I think this reveals more about your own mind set.

      “Many are not unhappy with being a pleb with no responsibilities and a low paying job as that is what suits them, some need more of a challenge and work at challenging themselves throughout their life and they are the ones who end up with the rewards of wealth.”

      Sure. May are though - they should not be punished for it. They are just as important to ‘the wealthy’ because there must be a working class to allow an upper class.

      You make the implication that the top earners are in some way special. I see those people as being good at making money… Like some are good actors, or artists or sportsmen or astronauts. Nothing more, nothing less.

    • mick says:

      12:40pm | 04/10/11

      What is clear is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.  We are mimicking the US and Great Britain in this respect and John Howard intended to put the final part of the jigsaw in place with Work Choices….a poor choice of words I would observe.

      It is about time that wealthy whose earning power is never capped at 2% faces up to its social responsibility and pays tax.  The loopholes, tax minimisation schemes and low tax rates for this sector is sickening. 

      It might be hoped that the Tax Forum discusses this issue. But pigs will fly and LIberal looks like being back in power in 2013 so don’t expect a fair go for average Australians trying to pay their mortgage and put food on the table.  Who cares about rabble anyway hay???

    • Maree says:

      01:18pm | 04/10/11

      Mick: Have a read of ‘Tators’ comments above. Its a good read.

    • AdamC says:

      01:11pm | 04/10/11

      “What is clear is that the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.”

      Do you have any evidence that this is “clearly” happening, Mick, or is it an article of faith?

    • PTom says:

      01:38pm | 04/10/11

      Penbo,
      “President Barack Obama has changed from his tack”
      I guess it might work if 64% of the US people including millions think that tax increase to the highest earners in the US will help out the country.

      But that is the US where the highest earns also give more to charities then they do here.

    • julie says:

      01:52pm | 04/10/11

      Ken Henry must be Buddhist. How could you attach an outcome to this?

    • No ! No ! No No! No! No! says:

      04:01pm | 04/10/11

      Your comment:As Tony Abbott and Gus Gould both say
      “No ! No! No! No! No! No !’

    • Dodge says:

      05:05pm | 04/10/11

      The assessment of the Obama approach to revenue increases is incorrect.

      The Bush tax cuts for the rich have amounted to very little except for the wealth of the top 5%. Incomes in the middle class have stagnated, while CEO salaries (now a key indicator of the disparity) have skyrocketed. Returning taxes seen to more prosperous times, like during the Clinton era, seems exactly the right course of action. Speaking of which, many of the times America made such amazing progress were during very highly taxed periods or large Federal Construction projects (read: Lots of national debt). Eisenhower and Nixon would be considered leftist Communists in today’s right-wing.

      Discussing ‘class warfare’ in such terms is simply pandering. Nothing could be more about class warfare than the right in America who seek to destroy Unionization and class action while keeping in place ridiculous breaks for Corporations and the wealthy. Apparently happy with their serfdom to the obscenely rich… How can anyone not complain about Buffet paying 18% tax while his secretary pays 33% or something close to that?

      Tax levels in Australia at the moment are fine. Except a few cockups in terms of Government programs, our taxes have procured a fantastic Country to live in.

      As for the chat-fest - Bureaucrats gotta Bureau.

    • jb says:

      05:46pm | 04/10/11

      How about Capital Gains are spread over the life of the investment not just the profit for the year you sell it… Thats the tax that truly SUX big time!

    • stephen says:

      06:26pm | 04/10/11

      Get them to do a White Paper ; one that says a lot, but does nothing.
      Tax measures for any government have to be honest, so that , if this government wants to take more from the rich, then they should raise general taxation.
      They shouldn’t concoct a levy for extra funds that targets the wealthy so discriminatory that it is obvious Labor does not like success.

      The way to a fairer redistribution of wealth and opportunity must start from scratch : from educating properly our youth. The best private schools lead the way with a classical education, and if the rest of the education sector does not wake up, the next generation of P.S. graduates, and the next, and the next, will still have all the money, and the rest of us will have nothing but envy.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:01pm | 04/10/11

      Gillard parents must be so proud of their useless fake PM of a daughter smile

      Gillard will be an historic failure and that is sweeter than sweet (buy me a beer l8er Ruddy)!

    • thatmosis says:

      07:14pm | 04/10/11

      Boo hoo, sob sob, I ve had children and you have to pay me because we really cant afford them. What a crock. If you have children the okay look after them yourselves and stop expecting the tax payers to prop you up, after all it was you decision not the tax payer. If you cant live on $70,000 a year then I suggest you stop spending on luxurys and buy what is necessary. Cut out the baby bonuses, maternity leave, family allowances and all the other crap that is making this country broke and let people do what others have had to do, make do or dont have kids. Simple.

    • Brian walters says:

      07:57pm | 04/10/11

      Well done David, keep the old socialist flag flying and kick the old conservatives whenever possible to enhance the left propaganda.
      proud as punch

    • ant says:

      10:02pm | 04/10/11

      I’m just waiting for a government to decree that Families from now-on will pay for nothing, everything for them will be for FREE. You can see that’s where it’s going. And you can see that some people expect it.

    • Sandra says:

      11:25pm | 04/10/11

      Indeed Ant.  From observation there is a cabal of child-burdened who, upon the realisation they cannot enjoy the same consumption of adult goods as the childless/childfree, demand a regressive cross-subsidy to redress this confected inequity.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      02:10pm | 05/10/11

      I couldnt have said it better myself Sandra.  No, literally.  I had to look up some of those words.

    • James O says:

      11:21pm | 04/10/11

      It’s certainly been a common theme for this Labor government to change the topic of political discussion as often as possible the emphasis being to divert public attention away from any effective opposition attack and focus the media onto Labors proactive leadership role. It was a tactic Kevin Rudd used well during his early period as PM, in between his jetset advisory role to the world. The legacy which still lingers today created much of the heartache that Labor now suffers in the polls and the interest debt that the tax payer will have to pay for some years ahead. The common theme is always to provide a theatre so that those interest groups that are likely to receive the most benefit will lobby their support and indirectly give praise to the Government at the same time, Projects with the promise of federal funding are a natural honey pot for high profile companies and organisations that directly benefit the most and populist themes will also attract long term advocates who have written volumes on the subject,. So too will opportunities to resurrect reforms to taxation bring well known faces out into the sunlight. I’m sure the rather self contented PM and treasurer will retain their cat like grin hoping that Abbott will cringe at every positive media comment.
      It’s fair to assume that a token result will be achieved to appease Rob Oakeshott because that is Labor’s form; to spin the positive untill the next diversion strategy comes along.

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      03:44am | 05/10/11

      Hi David,

      What does all this say about ordinary hard working Australian Families??  Will they all get their hard earned money’s worth??  I would much rather see all that money spent wisely on our infrastructure, schools, hospitals Instead of giving hand outs & payments to low the income families & the elderly!!

      It is the biggest in the books just to trick & lure voters into thinking that they are getting something for free!!  In reality it does not exist, and all it only happens to be a band aid solution!!  Nothing more or less!!

      It is so much better to have long range plans & lasting solutions for protecting our economy & living standards as well as creating work opportunities for the young generation.  Instead of being a state of hand outs & welfare payments, I would much rather see a concrete plan and a solid foundation to follow!!  Best regards to your editors.

    • Joel B1 says:

      07:41am | 05/10/11

      To all those naysayers I remind you that the 2020 ALP love-in had an “idea-to-we’ll-think-about-it” rate of 0.79%.

      Compared with the rest of Gillard et al. achievements (usually negative) that’s an outstanding success.

      Let’s hope this tax-fest is just as useful!

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      07:05am | 11/10/11

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