Santa sucks.

A fat, not particularly well groomed, obnoxiously dressed home intruder who steals all the credit.

It recently occurred to me that everyone eventually arrives at that same conclusion one way or the other.

I certainly did on Saturday, at precisely 12:36pm. Earlier that morning my wife and I packed up our two boys (one nearly 4 and the other 11 months) and headed off to our local shopping centre.

After literally stalking an elderly couple through the car park to get a spot, we went inside and promptly headed for the “Winter Wonderland”, eager to quickly let the boys tell Santa what they wanted for Christmas, get a couple of nice photos, do a spot of shopping ourselves, and be on our merry little way.

We patiently got into line, queuing amidst the elaborate Christmas display - the usual bunch of pretty lights scattered out amongst a loose posse of unconvincing, animatronic arctic creatures – and slowly waited for our turn to come.

When we finally got to the front of the line, we were greeted (nay, blankly glanced at) by the most unfriendly Santa ever to don an ill-fitting red suit. He ordered my wife to get out of the way of the photo, and barely said a word or cracked a smile in the two minutes we had the misfortune of being in smelling distance of him.

Two photo prints later and the cost of this little adventure had come to 25 dollars. It could have well exceeded that amount had we opted for anything other than the most basic photo package.

I admit to being a stingy bugger at the best of times (proudly taking after my dad in that respect), but… what the?!

The whole experience was enough for me to ask myself, why the hell do we even bother with any of it?

Even leaving aside the dreadful suburban shopping centre pilgrimage that parents willingly subject themselves and their kids to every year, why do we still persist with the entire Santa myth at all?

When you think about it for long enough in the abstract, it seems like a really terrible idea.

Christmas itself is a date that is supposed to celebrate the birth of Jesus (albeit on the northern hemisphere’s Winter solstice – a significant date ‘borrowed’ from the pagans), but has become a largely non-denominational holiday anyway.

So, if we can get through Christmas entirely forgetting why it exists in the first place, why can’t we also do without some lame story about a fat home intruder who takes all the credit for mum and dad’s hard gift-buying work?

It’s not like Christmas ceases to exist once you find out Santa isn’t real. If anything, you end up being more appreciative of your gifts, knowing that someone you know has worked hard for it, rather than the alternative, which is that a stranger forced one of his elf slaves to knock it together on his behalf.

It’s a sort of big, strange global lie that seems completely antithetical to good parenting. And there’s a very real risk that the whole façade can collapse in a rather dangerous manner.

Luckily for most kids finding out that Santa isn’t real is a bit of a non-event, usually a result of older siblings’ often deliberately loose tongues. But for some kids it can be totally devastating.

A friend of mine never thought that Santa was real, even from a very young age, because her mother only ever said that Santa was a “nice story”, not an actual person. Why? Because she was mentally scarred as a child the day that she found out that Santa wasn’t real, and never wanted her kids to go through that themselves. It’s a rather sensible parental response, when you think about it.

Likewise, another friend last year had an awful time quelling his daughter’s deep despair when she discovered from her school friends that Santa is just a work of collective fiction. She was distraught, and understandably so, because she discovered that she had been lied to for years and years, by the very people she should trust the most.

So much for the “Magic of Christmas”: the line that usually gets trotted out anytime someone questions the strange stuff that people do at this time of year.

So, ask yourself. Why can’t we just give gifts to one another and leave the lying to one side?

Why don’t we just tell kids the truth: that your mum and dad (or mum and mum, or dad and dad) love you, and at Christmas time we buy thoughtful presents for, and spend time with, the people we love?

On second thought, it’s probably just easier to shell out 25 bucks every year.

Like I said, Santa sucks.

146 comments

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    • Little Joe says:

      05:30am | 12/12/11

      Why don’t you tell your children the truth, it’s the day we celebrate the birth of Jesus

    • yourname says:

      06:10am | 12/12/11

      I have had enough of the J word, it brings a bad taste to my mouth, especially when Xians force feed it to me, as you are doing now. Get lost.

      PS—Most people don’t even remember that Xians consider Xmas an anniversary, Little Joe—either you know that and are being devious, or you are ignorant.

    • Trevor says:

      06:23am | 12/12/11

      Didn’t your mother ever teach you that one lie is no better than another?

    • gobsmack says:

      06:27am | 12/12/11

      Pssst.  Jesus isn’t real either.  But don’t tell your younger brothers and sisters.

    • Scarlett Street Rocker says:

      06:28am | 12/12/11

      @little joe, you need to do a bit of research.

    • acotrel says:

      06:39am | 12/12/11

      I read this article, and now it’s no surprise to me that so many old men top themselves at christmas.

    • PW says:

      07:18am | 12/12/11

      To some, Santa is real. To others, Jesus is real. Who the fuck do you people think you are to say they are wrong?

    • badrinath says:

      08:07am | 12/12/11

      I’m not a christian, but i tells ya, there is one thing worse than a pushy super christian. The angry christian haters that harp on with their beliefs, whilst still -among other things - partying on the day named for the mass of Christ. You lot are worse to listen to, just as righteous, just as full of your own shit, but I find you more annoying.

    • P. Darvio says:

      08:35am | 12/12/11

      Quote: I’m not a christian, but i tells ya, there is one thing worse than a pushy super christian. The angry christian haters that harp on with their beliefs, whilst still -among other things - partying on the day named for the mass of Christ. You lot are worse to listen to, just as righteous, just as full of your own shit, but I find you more annoying.


      Yeah just like those Republicans who take the Public holiday off for the Queens Birthday and party hard – and as the same with Fictional Jesus Person we don’t have the Public Holiday on the actual Queens Birthday because know one actually knows when Fictional Jesus Person was born (as he is Fictional) – Christians have just made up a date.

      Happy Holidays !!

    • David says:

      08:50am | 12/12/11

      Christmas to me has never had anything to do with Jesus. I don’t go in for decorating my house with Christian symbolism such as Christmas trees and the like. For me Christmas is nothing more than a time for family gathering and sharing the love and appreciation by giving gifts.

      And actually the 25th of December was a day of Pagan celebration that was hijacked by Christianity.

    • Michael says:

      09:18am | 12/12/11

      Actually Little Joe, read the Bible and it becomes obvious that if we were celebrating the birth of Jesus, Christmas would be April/May

    • JY says:

      09:24am | 12/12/11

      The Christmas tree is not a symbol of Christianity, it’s a Pagan symbol

    • Trevor says:

      09:29am | 12/12/11

      PW

      “To some, Santa is real. To others, Jesus is real. Who the fuck do you people think you are to say they are wrong?”

      Jesus serves the same function as Santa. Guidance for those born without a moral compass. Santa for children and Jesus for psychopaths.

    • Chris L says:

      09:38am | 12/12/11

      Don’t worry David, the Christmas tree and the exchange of gifts are part of the original Pagan ritual. Happy Yule you diverse folks.

    • I, Claudia says:

      09:50am | 12/12/11

      Actually , Joe, it’s one of the days on which the Romans celebrated Saturnalia. The Christians stole December 25th to coerce the Romans into celebrating the birth of the Christian saviour. No one has any idea when Jesus was born.

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      09:53am | 12/12/11

      If Santa and Jesus had a fight, how much carbon tax would an assylum seeker have to pay?

      Oh look, a dog with a puffy tail…....he he he…..come ere uff tail….he he he….

    • Little Joe says:

      10:04am | 12/12/11

      Yes I got it wrong ..... it’s the day Catholics, Anglicans etc etc. celebrate the birth of Jesus. I guess we should stop televising Christmas Carols also.

      @ Yourname

      So why do you celebrate Christmas??

      @ Trevor

      This is not a lie ..... this is the day Christians celebrate the birth of Christ

      @ gobsmack

      Pssst.  Jesus is very real and mentioned by two other religions. 

      @ Scarlett Street Rocker

      Read the Koran ..... he is mentioned there also.

      @acotrel

      Keep breathing Acotrel. You make me laugh every day
      @ badrinath

      Yes there are a lot of fundamental aetheist in the world
      P. Darvio

      Jesus is not fictional.

      @ David and Michael (nice biblical names I must say)

      True, we actually do not know when Jesus was born.

      @ JY

      and ???
      PW

      “.... Jesus for psychopaths.” Someone needs a nap.

    • Little Joe says:

      10:16am | 12/12/11

      Ps. Just so you all know, I have collected a village full of soccer uniforms, about 20 sets of football boots, a enough brand new jerseys for union sevens team, about 50 balls (footballs, volleyballs, netballs, etc), boxes of books and eight complete cricket kits ...... all being sent overseas to underprivilaged children for Christmas ...... but will not arrive until the New Year.

      Christians are not all bad.

      A happy and safe Christmas to all.

    • neo says:

      10:34am | 12/12/11

      Gotta love the radical atheists, you lot will never miss a chance to force feed your religious beliefs to others.

    • PW says:

      11:00am | 12/12/11

      Trevor: “Jesus serves the same function as Santa. Guidance for those born without a moral compass. Santa for children and Jesus for psychopaths.”

      Much as you are entitled to hold whatever views you want, your hypocrisy shows in spades.

    • PW says:

      11:06am | 12/12/11

      “PW

      .... Jesus for psychopaths.” Someone needs a nap.

      Seems that someone is you, Little Joe. I am on your side. The quote above is by Trevor.

    • David says:

      11:11am | 12/12/11

      @neo,

      A Christian acusing an atheist about force feeding their religious beliefs to others. Now that just makes me laugh.

    • Stavros says:

      11:23am | 12/12/11

      I thought it was the day we celebrate the birth of Santa?

    • Another Chris says:

      11:25am | 12/12/11

      @ David: Militant Atheism is the new black. Haven’t you heard? It’s becoming cool to hate Christians and call their God “Flying Spaghetti Monster” because well hey- you all seem to worship Dawkins, Christopher Hitchens and quote them anyway.
      One thing you can’t dispute….Jesus of Nazareth was real and is listed in historical records as well has other religious manuscripts.
      Some Atheists are becoming just as aggressive with there beliefs as said Christians…

    • Chris L says:

      11:36am | 12/12/11

      Funny how religious people are allowed to publicly broadcast their story (and lobby for censorship) but once an atheist puts forward their own view of those stories that’s just a step too far! Apparently not believing in gods is considered an actual attack on religion, whereas spouting doctrine and pushing to ban stem cell research, gay marriage and enforce puritanical views of sexuality is all part of being a good Christian.

      Don’t get me wrong, the majority of Christians I know are moderate and tolerant, but some of these people online are the epitome of hypocrisy.

    • Angry Fat Bitch says:

      11:37am | 12/12/11

      There’s no sense being bitter when the J word gets mentioned. In fact it’s quite pathetic.

      The harsh reality is that Christmas IS a religous holiday. And you don’t necessarily need to teach your children to believe in Jesus. But they should at least be aware that Christmas is about Jesus.

      As for Santa - why do we continue with the myth? Bribery. He only brings presents to good boys and girls, and that can be a powerful tool in getting your children to behave. I’m sure someone will come out and criticise, say that’s lazy parenting - it’s not. Any parenting book will say that good behaviour should be rewarded.

    • Little Joe says:

      12:20pm | 12/12/11

      @ PW

      Sorry!!!

    • Anne71 says:

      12:32pm | 12/12/11

      @Gobsmack - I think you’ll find that Jesus was most definitely “real”. It’s whether or not one believes that he is the Son of God that’s the question.

    • David says:

      12:44pm | 12/12/11

      I find it amusing when an atheist expresses their apathy for a festival like Christmas and you end up with a bunch of Christians screaming that the militant atheists are trying to ram their beliefs down everyone’s throats. I can’t go to the local Westfield shopping centre at this time of the year without being bombarded with nativity displays depicting Christian myths and having Christmas carols blaring where every second word is “Lord Jesus”. And if you want to throw around examples of ramming beliefs down people’s throats, it was the Christians that invaded new lands, quashing the traditions and beliefs of the indigenous populations by the sword and gun. Since when has an atheist threatened “Believe what I tell you or I will hurt you”.

    • neo says:

      01:00pm | 12/12/11

      Anne71, but if He was real, and He was truly as wise as His Word is, that would logically make it more likely that He was the Son of God and God exists. Easier to just ignore history and pretend He wasn’t real.

    • Trevor says:

      01:02pm | 12/12/11

      @Fat Angry Bitch (a name no doubt inspired by your serene christian lifestyle?)

      “As for Santa - why do we continue with the myth? Bribery. He only brings presents to good boys and girls, and that can be a powerful tool in getting your children to behave. I’m sure someone will come out and criticise, say that’s lazy parenting - it’s not. Any parenting book will say that good behaviour should be rewarded.”

      As for Jesus-why do we continue with the myth? Bribery. He only brings presents to good men and women, and that can be a powerful tool in getting your people to behave. I’m sure someone will come out and criticise, say[ing] that’s lazy philosophy-it’s not. Any propaganda manual will say that good behaviour should be rewarded.” (i.e. Machiavelli)

      I rest my case.

      I should point out that I didn’t intend to suggest that Jesus didn’t exist- he obviously did. Read Tacitus’ account of Jesus and his thoughts on the Jews. I object to him being presented as some sort of miracle worker who then ‘died for my sins’. What a load. In order to ensure that every subsequent person couldn’t wriggle out of the arguement by saying they don’t sin, he (they) imposed a set of ‘sins’ so universal to the human condition that everyone is beholden to him. Pretty cunning actually, in an ancient and overbearing sort of way.

      So if I am denied entry to the Pearly Gates I am going to claim indemnity through Jesus, after all, it’s all on his tab isn’t it? Or is there some sort of caveat for people like me? There always is.

    • baal says:

      01:02pm | 12/12/11

      we have evidence for historial jesus/Jesuses.
      We have no solid evidence for most of the gospels.
      We have zero evidence for the existence of christ or his resurrection
      really not that hard folks. Just research without bias.

    • PW says:

      02:31pm | 12/12/11

      Trevor: “I should point out that I didn’t intend to suggest that Jesus didn’t exist- he obviously did. Read Tacitus’ account of Jesus and his thoughts on the Jews. I object to him being presented as some sort of miracle worker who then ‘died for my sins’. What a load.”

      Mate, you can believe whatever you like. I really don’t care. What I do care about is your rather callous dismissal of the beliefs of others. It’s not all about you. What makes sense to you may not make sense to everyone and what makes no sense to you might make perfect sense to another.

      You are not the only offender here in this regard, merely the most blinkered.

    • Matthew Buckley says:

      02:36pm | 12/12/11

      For months I have l been wondering what is with all the militant, evangelist atheist comments on The Punch’s message-boards. I have serioulsy been wondering if there is an organised campaign behind it. I don’t see proponents of other religions doing it. Personally, I don’t like people Bible-bashing to me, but I also don’t like atheists dogmatically ramming their beliefs down my throat either. It’s two sides of the same coin.

      “Funny how religious people are allowed to publicly broadcast their story (and lobby for censorship) but once an atheist puts forward their own view of those stories that’s just a step too far!”

      I think the difference is when one theological group bad-mouths the beliefs of another group - such as, hypothetically, a Christian group constantly calling Buddhism a load of worthless hogwash. So yeah, atheists can get up and say “We’re atheists and proud of it” but it doesn’t mean they should bad-mouth others’ beliefs.

    • Little Joe says:

      03:21pm | 12/12/11

      @David

      Actually, if you read a lot of 19th Century Australian History, Aboriginals were saved by religious groups. Many religious groups went out and stopped the murder of Indigenous Australians.

      I also remember one account of how a Religous Group went out to where they went out to save Tasmanian Aboriginal Women who had been ‘sold’ by their tribe.  The Tasmanian Aboriginal Women stayed because they knew how badly they were treated in the tribe.

      Yes there are bad people that use religion to hide their vulgar behaviour ..... but most religious are not evil.

    • David says:

      03:50pm | 12/12/11

      @Matthew Buckley

      I’ll cut you a deal. When Christians stop forming lobby groups to censor what materials us atheists can choose as adults to consume, when they stop interfering in our sexual activities, when they stop dumbing down our children’s education education by replacing accepted theory tested by the scientific method with centuries old myth and fable in our schools, when they stop specifying which groups within the community can enjoy the celebration of marriage and which can’t and when they stop imposing their idea of a moral code on the wider community, us atheists will stop attacking your Christian beliefs.

    • David says:

      03:59pm | 12/12/11

      @Little Joe,

      I am not familiar with the examples you have given but I am pretty sure that more people have come to harm across history in the name of Christianity than atheism.

    • Andrew says:

      04:01pm | 12/12/11

      @Little Joe “Pssst.  Jesus is very real and mentioned by two other religions. “

      Bahahahahahahahaha.  Oh my.  Really?  “Jesus” has been mentioned by THREE religions!  Wow, quick, call the newspapers, it’s a FACT!!  THREE out of umm, 2-3 million or so known religions, what an amazing majority!  Oh hang on, human sacrifice was a part of THOUSANDS of religions, so I guess that must be right too?  Come on Joe, up on the pyramid you get, it’s time to sate the gods..  Idiot.

    • neo says:

      04:15pm | 12/12/11

      Andrew, above, clearly doesn’t need any religion to teach him morals and respect, or even basic courtesy.

      David, look, believing in God and believing in being a good person, as Jesus taught, does not mean we are all members of some lobby groups or even a Church. You wouldn’t want to be bunched and classified an uneducated, disrespectful moron, just because most outspoken atheists on here are, now would you?

    • JC says:

      04:44pm | 12/12/11

      Hey guys I’ll let you in on something I discovered when I was 12.
      No matter how much you yell and scream and call someone names, you can’t convert their relegious beliefs, even if you are sooo totally right.

      People can only convert themselves, you can give someone evidence or research but you can’t get them to believe it.

      I know you guys don’t seem to think there is another person on the other side of the interenet reading your harsh words but there is, so can we cut out this viciousness?

    • me my mo says:

      06:07pm | 12/12/11

      @acotrel: the whole “suicides go up during whatever holiday” thing is a myth.

      @others, to add to Anne71’s comment, the name Yeshua (Jesus is an anglicized version) was quite common during the relevant time. Archaeologists have dug up many tombs that date to Jesus’ supposed death.

    • Matt Buckley says:

      09:48pm | 12/12/11

      David, you just tarred all Christians in Australia with the same brush. Not all Christians are how you describe. To say that is akin to labeling all atheists the same. Rather than insult Christians and their beliefs en masse, how about just taking on those particular lobby groups, or those particular policies of those lobby groups, that you disagree with?

      You also might be interested to read this story: http://www.australianmarriageequality.com/wp/2011/12/08/victorian-council-of-churches-the-acl-does-not-represent-all-australian-christians/

      Religion is not a bad thing in itself.  Fanaticism is. And you can get that in any belief system, whether it be political, religious or whatever. Communism isn’t evil, but people such the Khmer Rouge, Shining Path and the Baader-Meinhof gang took it too far. In England people beat the daylights out of each other for barracking for opposing soccer teams, but that does not mean soccer is evil. What is to stop an atheist extremist from bombing a church?

      Both good and bad have come out of religion. The bad have included violence and oppression. The good have included charities, humanitarian aid and social justice movements.

    • Rebecca says:

      01:08am | 13/12/11

      I don’t celebrate the birth of Jesus.  The winter solstice was usurped by Christianity to aid in the conversion of other nature-based religions.

      The symbolism you tout for christmas - trees, gift giving, the virgin birth… all had origins in earlier religions. 

      I don’t doubt that there was a man in the approximate vicinity named Jesus - but it would take some pretty hefty evidence to convince me of his divinity.

      In our household, xmas is about family, getting together with our extended families, which in time pressed society is harder to do - not to mention when they’re spread out across the country (or world).  We give gifts (often saved for, or handmade) to show our appreciation for the years effort.  In reality, we could move our celebration right a week, and have it on new years instead, and it wouldn’t make a difference to us (hey, maybe it would be cheaper - we’d get the after xmas sales!)

      Though I wouldn’t want to get rid of Santa (even if its the Catholics who’ve been trying to do this for years) - St. Nicholas (not actually a saint, btw) is probably the best part of the whole xmas story.  A man who gave of his own time and money to provide small gifts for the children in his community, that would otherwise not have had anything.  If anything speaks of the magic of christmas - its Santa - not religious idolatry.  We give gifts in our family to try to be like this - where we might not be able to provide everything we’d like to (to family or community) there is this day which we can do something.

      Yes, it might be nice to be able to do this throughout the year (and the ‘feeling’ is always there) - but it wouldn’t be special if it were every day, would it?  Elmo says so!

    • Michael says:

      05:52am | 12/12/11

      Oh lighten up mate, the bah humbug routine has been done to death..

      If you dont like the commercialised, shopping centre version of santa, there is a simple way to avoid it. Nobody is forcing you to take your offspring to the shops alongside the hoardes of other ACA and Sunrise viewers.

      Most young children believe in things that are not real for a period - fairies, trolls, rumpelstiltskin etc. Surely the Santa charade is not that far removed from the rest of the fantasy world in which they reside?

      If you are that keen to tell your children the truths of the world, I suggest starting with some of the other illusions that are used to keep up societial appearances. How about starting with “hard work is not related to success in this world”, “you are unlikely to realise your dreams”, or simply “everybody lies”. I am sure you can think of other “realist” truths to break the ice with..

    • Andy says:

      10:10am | 12/12/11

      Couldn’t agree more. Most adults live in their own fantasy land when they’re not at work - TV, DVD’s, movies, politics etc - they use it as an escape to relax. Why pick on just one more fantasy in Santa. My 36 y/o still gets a Santa present each year - sure she has no illusions as to where it comes from but she loves the little bit of fantasy that makes her feel special. Isn’t that what this is all about each year, making your kids feel special and letting them know how much you love them.

    • Adam Diver says:

      10:21am | 12/12/11

      I disagree, why should children experience happiness or presents? They should be in the coal mines, no doubt.

    • Wynston Cruso says:

      12:12pm | 12/12/11

      Agreed Adam. Also we should bring back chimneys, so the little bastards can clean them.

    • Budz says:

      04:17pm | 12/12/11

      Why should you have to buy them presents to show they are important to you?
      If I wanted something, I would have already bought it for myself. I don’t need/want someone else buying something for me by trying to guess what I want. That’s when you end up with crap you don’t want and buying crap for other they don’t want.
      I think shops and advertisers love the current shopping spree that everyone goes on for Christmas.

    • rb says:

      06:03am | 12/12/11

      So don’t do it. There are many of us out here that don’t and our kids still feel loved and secure.
      I am neither religous or materialistic so christmas hold no value for me.

    • acotrel says:

      06:46am | 12/12/11

      @rb
      I too, am neither religous or materialistic, however Christmas DOES have value for me.  It celebrates the birth of the only guy who ever bucked the system and had a really lasting beneficial effect !  Even if he is a fiction, the example is important. If we all sit on our hands and cop the status quo, we’ll all end up at the mercy of the scammers, and dickheads.

    • yourname says:

      07:09am | 12/12/11

      “Beneficial effect”, acotrel? You think the human population of the world is any happier now than it was two thousand years ago? What a quaint notion.

    • acotrel says:

      07:31am | 12/12/11

      @yourname
      It would probably be great fun to be a slave in Roman times, or a gladiator about to be given the thumbs down.  Or a christian about to become dinner in the forum ? Of course you might be an upper class twit, like some that are around today, and get stabbed in the rotunda.  It’s interesting to look at the skeletons in Pompei.  Some of them show signs of the end of muscles pulling away from the bone, through overloading.  The lives of many wouldn’t have been too flash. The one that I like is when you harden your red hot sword by shoving it through a slave . Fun times !

    • rb says:

      07:35am | 12/12/11

      How wonderful to have one day of the year. Another Hallmark day. If these values were important than they would be present all year round.

    • jf says:

      09:18am | 12/12/11

      acotrel says:07:46am | 12/12/11

      “I too, am neither religous or materialistic, however Christmas DOES have value for me.  It celebrates the birth of the only guy who ever bucked the system and had a really lasting beneficial effect !  Even if he is a fiction, the example is important. If we all sit on our hands and cop the status quo, we’ll all end up at the mercy of the scammers, and dickheads.”

      Bravo acotrel. Well said.

    • iMitchy says:

      10:10am | 12/12/11

      @acotrel,
      I think I’d rather sit on my hands than become the subject of something like “Easter” where kids eat chocolate while I am publicly tortured and left to die slowly.
      Not religious btw, but the story does show you that one can get screwed by running against the crowd.

    • Nafe says:

      10:38am | 12/12/11

      iMitchy, yeah just like Martin Luther King Jr?

      Damn those people who do things for the greater good rather than self interest.

    • David says:

      01:39pm | 12/12/11

      @Alcotrel

      Do you really think the myth of Christianity has had a beneficial effect on society? I would say that we live better lives today despite it not because of it.

    • WarBaby says:

      05:32am | 13/12/11

      The only guy that bucked the system?  Nah, Buddha did that too.  There is a tradition in my family, based on race memories, that the ‘missing years’ of Jesus’ life were actually spent on the Silk Road with his trader relations.  There he encountered Asian metaphysical philosophies and came back with a strong desire to show people they were basing their lives on the wrong sets of premises.  A lot of the stuff attributed to Jesus, he never actually said.  Go actually read the Gospels, Jesus never claimed to be the son of God, he called himself the ‘Son of Man’.  Also, the Dead Sea Scrolls have uncovered a huge cache of historical material about the life of Jesus, but most people never discover that.  Try reading the ‘Jesus the Man’ and other books by Barbara Thiering, a very noted linguist and translator of the scrolls.  Just as well that it is Israel that has charge of them, the Vatican would have buried or burned them, as they have with anything that threatens their ‘party line’.  Also, the work of astronomers has placed the birth of Jesus (based on the comet) at close to 5th. March 5AD.  This corresponds also to the time frame set in the gospels by reference to other historical persons. When you, who pour such vitriole on the beliefs of others, actually research and read, you will appreciate that there is ‘more in heaven and earth that is dreamed of in your philosophy’ (Will Shakespeare).  Love being a historian.

    • Chris_D says:

      06:06am | 12/12/11

      So you had one bad experience and now everyone should give up on letting kids enjoy the “magic” of Santa?

      Lighten up Stephen.  You seemed to be all for enjoying the moment and sharing it with your kids until it cost you $25.  It seems you might need to move away from the commercialism of Christmas and just get back to enjoying the story-telling and fantasy of Santa that makes kids eyes grow wide in wonder.  Kids are only that age once, let them enjoy it, and you will find yourself enjoying it with them.  There is plenty of time for boring reality later in their lives.  Don’t let one bad Santa experience spoil it for everyone.

    • acotrel says:

      06:51am | 12/12/11

      @ChrisD
      ’ It seems you might need to move away from the commercialism of Christmas and just get back to enjoying the story-telling and fantasy of Santa that makes kids eyes grow wide in wonder. ‘

      If you’ve got kids who are gullible enough to believe your bullshit, youve failed as a parent ! They’ll probably grow up to believe in people like Tony Abbott !

    • Alf says:

      07:45am | 12/12/11

      @acotrel….and you were doing so well up until now acotrel. You just can’t seem to control your Tony Abbott phobia. Unfortunatly for you, Tony just has a sack full of coal (at pre-tax price)...you have been a naughty boy again.

    • jf says:

      09:50am | 12/12/11

      acotrel says:07:51am | 12/12/11

      “If you’ve got kids who are gullible enough to believe your bullshit, youve failed as a parent ! They’ll probably grow up to believe in people like Tony Abbott ! “

      And reverts to form. Your self-flagelating for having a crush on a man who is your political opposite is becoming a concern.

    • Steve M says:

      09:51am | 12/12/11

      Lol, and Acotrel i’d have to say that if you have a four year old that isnt gullible and open to magic then you have failed as parent. And rather badly. What kind of person robs a toddler of make believe?

    • Chris_D says:

      10:07am | 12/12/11

      @acotrel, I do try my best to ignore you, but you want to judge me as a parent based on 1 post?

      As I’ve said before, I feel genuinely sorry for you, in many, many ways for many, many reasons, not the least of which is the way you can’t see the wood for the trees, nor the fact that your whole sorry life appears to revolve around Tony Abbott.

    • Parranormal says:

      12:28pm | 12/12/11

      @Acotrel - even spelt it right your earlier comments were great (first time I think I have ever agreed with you) then you pull this long bow how did you ever manage to get Abbott into the Christmas story. You are absolutely awesome. You and Mal Farr are the greatest apologists ever, your tenacity is admirable and entertaining. Cheers and have a Merry Christmas.
      As a little foot note the bible and christian faith was hijacked by the Romans to help control the growing movement which is why so many of the Pagan symbols were used - it was all set up by Pagans…...
      What better way to erode the belief in Christ than to base the celebration his birth in a ritual which will of course be proven to be a farce thus undermining any other significance of the related events. Great marketing…...

    • Chris_D says:

      06:11am | 12/12/11

      And for the record, while you trot out 2 examples of “distraught” and “mentally scarred” children with “deep despair”, I do not know a single person or their children who have this negative mindset.  But then I hang around with happy people who like to enjoy the fun side of life.

    • Zdacey says:

      06:11am | 12/12/11

      “a fat home intruder who takes all the credit for mum and dad’s hard gift-buying work”.

      One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was when I was a naive child-less 19 year old. My older co-workers told me that Santa brings their kids the cheap stocking-filler toys, but mum and dad get the credit for the expensive stuff.

      Because of that advice, when my kids believed in Santa, they still understood that mum worked hard to earn the money to buy the major gifts. Santa brought the cheap stuff that you can buy at any $2 shop. (And they weren’t devastated to learn that he doesn’t exist, unlike the children who think Santa brings the latest game console every year.)

    • gobsmack says:

      07:05am | 12/12/11

      Lol, good idea.
      You could also tell your children that Santa moved his workshop from the North Pole to China to reduce labour costs.  So anything with “made in China” written on it came from Santa.

    • acotrel says:

      07:39am | 12/12/11

      I thought it was really hilarious a few years ago when a mate of mine was barred from another friend’s house by the olds.  The rotten bastard apparently told their nineteen year old daughter the Santa is a fabrication.  The girl was devastated.  Later she ended up marrying some dodo that her mummy and daddy approved of - ended in disaster when she finally grew up.

    • BMJ says:

      06:11am | 12/12/11

      I swear you can’t even bloody Christmas anymore. You have Christmas issues cause you ran into a fake Santa that didn’t make your cut. Wah Wah!

    • gobsmack says:

      08:34am | 12/12/11

      A “fake Santa”?
      Is there any other kind?

    • thatmosis says:

      06:34am | 12/12/11

      Its hard to go anywhere at this time of year without being bombarded with Xmas crap of both the commercial and religious type. Sick to bloody death of crap Xmas carrols being blasted through musac in stores whilst you are being fleeced of your hard earned. What about those that dont believe or just plain dont want ths garbage, where are their rights, but no we all have to suffer for some peoples idea that this is a time to celebrate, come the revolution.

    • Steve M says:

      09:53am | 12/12/11

      the sit in your hole and miss out Grinch. Dont rain on everyone elses parade

    • Alicia says:

      01:20pm | 12/12/11

      You could always just shop online. Seriously - no one forces you to be “fleeced of your hard earned” or listen to Christmas carols. Eat grass for a month and you won’t have to hit the shops. Problem solved.

    • Scarlett Street Rocker says:

      06:48am | 12/12/11

      Look, everyone, just chill, jingle bells,batman smells,robin ran away, party,enjoy!

    • SpagBol says:

      10:15am | 12/12/11

      Sorry, but I believe he either flew away, or laid an egg…  I won’t stand for this misinformation!

    • sir ronald bradnam says:

      07:01am | 12/12/11

      I will support that as long as we get rid of all lies and imaginary friends at the same time, heres my list to start the day, feel free to add to it.
      No 1 God - we get rid of all reference to this fairy tale and we lose santa and Jesus at the same time, so a three for one deal.
      No 2 Allah - enough said, if we got rid of this myth then suicide bombers and Jihadists the world over have lost their cause and would have to invent another excuse.
      No 3 The tooth fairy, though I will miss her but we are elimanating all myths, fairy tales and imaginary friends.
      No 4 Ghosts, then we can shut down all the pshycic and tarot reading, tea leaf reading, palm reading, rice reading bullshit industries.
      No 5 The Devil - although I suppose if the myth of a supernatural dictator is elimanated then there is no need for an imaginary boogy monster that lives in lava in the centre of the earth.
      Im feeling better already what a great start to the day to fix those myths once and for all.

    • andre says:

      01:33pm | 12/12/11

      You can not get rid of God , silly sire . He is there whether you like it or not. Santa is a camouflaged god too. A god from the north.Do your research sired.

    • Mahhrat says:

      07:29am | 12/12/11

      Let me broaden the discussion a little bit.

      Adults these days are particularly time-poor.  This is something that’s talked about an awful lot, and for mine it’s mostly accurate.

      Hence, when we go shopping we allow precisely x minutes to do our usual shop.

      Anything out of the ordinary, like a traffic jam, throws this ultra-tight “schedule” off.  Cue the stress.

      Now, while we intellectually understand that it’s Christmas and Santa will be there and more people and kids and stupid muzak, the time-poor stress fiends nonetheless somehow expect to be in and out of the multiplex in the same time period.

      I’m serious!  I see it all the time. 

      I reckon that’s what our OP has done.  He’s not given himself enough “time”, so he’s externalising all his stresses onto this poor bastard who’s paid $15 an hour to put up with hordes of screaming, mewling little turds who pass on their vomit, soiled nappies etc while he sweats it out underneath a ridiculous amount of clothing better suited to the snow.

      Should Santa be done away with?  In shopping centres and Harvey Norman, absolutely, but only because it’s crass commercialism and that’s my subjective view. 

      To do away with all the magic of Christmas time for young kids because you can’t find room to forgive people their imperfections in your tightly-wound big-city lives?  Get over yourself, McDuck.

    • Chris L says:

      09:49am | 12/12/11

      I heard that store Santas aren’t allowed to bellow Ho Ho Ho anymore. It was startling poor shoppers or insulting feminists or something. No wonder they’re grouchy buggers nowadays.

    • Steve M says:

      09:54am | 12/12/11

      Brilliant. Could not agree more.

    • Joan Bennett says:

      07:43am | 12/12/11

      rb, do you ignore christmas altogether, then?  By that, I mean do you not buy your children presents, just because it’s the 25th of December or their birthday?  If so, well done.  If not, you are being materialistic and teaching your children those values.

    • rb says:

      08:18am | 12/12/11

      I don’t buy anything for christmas. I’m happy to make them something for birthdays. Birthdays are a little more personal. I also love to knit a gift for friends newborns.
      Gift giving can be a wonderful thing. Thoughtful and from the heart, not guilted on parents by big business.

    • David says:

      09:39am | 12/12/11

      @Joan

      I would be quite happy to ignore Christmas altogether along with all the religious bullshit that goes with it. We can have a family gathering on any weekend and give our children gifts at any time of the year, for no reason and when they are not expecting them, simply because we want to give them a thrill. Unfortunately, however, Christmas is so ingrained in our culture that it is difficult to ignore it.

    • Frances says:

      07:48am | 12/12/11

      What a miserable lot. Just once a year is even too much for you to believe in something better than yourself, and that us both positive and actually makes people happy. it’s such an innocent and delightful experience for kids that PC, miserable and bitter adults try and deprive them. Seriously…let them be kids and let people live their lives without being si judgmental regardless of beliefs; religious or not.

      Just try enjoying life for a change.

    • Arnold Layne says:

      08:34am | 12/12/11

      Nicely said Frances.  Having said that, the Santa we took the kids to see on Saturday was the nicest I have come across in years.  He did a fantastic job and we all left with a smile on our faces.  Good on ya Santa!

    • HappyCynic says:

      09:58am | 12/12/11

      Here’s a crazy thought, one can enjoy life without Xmas and it’s sh!tty trappings.

      I’ve never had an Xmas present, or a tree or anything like it on Xmas, I don’t buy anyone presents and I expect to raise my kids the same way, mostly because I’m not a christian and my religious culture is much richer and more family focussed than this materialistic sh!t offered up by christianity.  I still had a fairly innocent and delightful childhood at times and I still grew up to be a well-adjusted and normal human being.

      That said, live and let live and all that junk, which would be a lot easier if I could just avoid the awful carolling, the fat sweaty guys in red suits (in the middle of summer no less!!  Whose bright idea was that?), the relentless advertising and the irritable queues of shoppers in the shopping centres.  Seriously for such an allegedly happy season there sure are a lot of angry and rude shoppers.

    • JY says:

      11:28am | 12/12/11

      @HappyCynic - do you buy or have received hannuka presents though? (I am guessing the faith) as it pretty much falls in the same category

    • Anne71 says:

      12:39pm | 12/12/11

      Thank you, Frances! 
      Seriously, are we all so self-centred and cynical these days that we can’t allow kids to enjoy a bit of fantasy while they can?
      As for people who claim to have been “traumatised” when they learned that Santa Claus wasn’t real, they really need to get over themselves. No doubt they were equally traumatised when they first discovered that the world doesn’t revolve around them. Or perhaps they’re still to learn that lesson?

    • HappyCynic says:

      12:46pm | 12/12/11

      @JY

      The religion was about the only thing you got right in your post.  At Chanukah you don’t exchange gifts, you light a menorah for 8 days and eat greasy food including latkes.  Saying it’s the same as Xmas is like saying a fish is exactly the same as a cat.  It happens to fall in the same month most of the time but it’s an entirely different holiday.  The closest holiday we have to Xmas is more like Hallowe’en in which kids dress up and exchange packages of cakes and chocolates and that’s around March or April.

      It’s also just a minor holiday in the Jewish calendar compared to the likes of Yom Kippur or Passover, I don’t even get any days off work for it!  That said, a latke tree does sound delicious smile

    • JY says:

      01:13pm | 12/12/11

      @HappyCynic - oh well at least I got one thing right, I mentioned it because some of my friends that do the 8 days candle lighting thing also exchange presents 8 nights, one gift each night which is why I said same thing, forgive me if you do not actually do that, my friends may be joining traditions lol

    • Outraged says:

      05:24pm | 12/12/11

      @HappyCynic: lighten up!

      It seems you you have gobbled up the guilt and self-loathing sh!t that Judaism offers up…

    • subotic says:

      08:19am | 12/12/11

      Yes, let’s get rid of it all, I say.

      No Christmas (and it’s stupid gift giving),
      no Boxing Day (and it’s stupid discount shopping),
      no Easter (coz chocolate IS evil),
      no Queen’s birthday (like we need any more non-Australian holidays),
      no damn Australia Day (as this may upset the non-Australian’s living here illegally and we as a nation wouldn’t tolerate that),
      and lets get rid of that stupid ANZAC Day holiday as well (as once again, this may upset non-Australians and it glorifies war).

      Yes, let’s get rid of all holidays, all religion, anything that might be fun, or at least provides a day off from work. Bah humbug, let’s all get back to working a good 90 - 120 hour week with only the weekends off, coz that’s what we as a nation of sour old wowsers & losers deserve. Don’t even try to enjoy your miserable damn lives.

      He who dies with the most hours up at work - still DIES.

    • Chris L says:

      09:52am | 12/12/11

      If my job were to provide massages to Christina Ricci I’d be willing to work those hours. Otherwise forget it!

    • Wilma J Craig says:

      08:21am | 12/12/11

      Religion aside….
      The magic, for magic it certainly was, of Father Christmas/Santa Claus has been totally destroyed by the retailers.
      The whole season of Christmas used to start around the end of October early November. It’s highlight was for some Christmas Eve for others Christmas Day.
      Presents were bought secretly & hidden away until late at night after the children were safely in bed & asleep a few days before THE Day then brought out, wrapped, put under the tree & in small Christmas Stockings which were hung on the end of the children’s beds for them to find when they woke up!
      It was Exciting. Children & Adults alike did not know what they were getting until those gifts were unwrapped.
      Today?
      Christmas starts almost immediately after Easter.
      Children are actually asked what they want!
      Alleged ” Gifts” are bought & what happens? The children get them often on the day they are bought & they are often bought with the children present!
      This goes on for months & months so that by the time The Day rolls around the children have had all their presents, there are no Surprises. There is no Excitement.
      So what happens on Christmas Day?
      It seems, for most, it is Eat, Eat, Eat & Drink, Drink, Drink!
      In our Family we try to keep it as it was. Gifts secretly bought & hidden whilst the children are at school. Presents are only given on Birthdays or as a ‘one off’ special treat as a reward for getting a good school report
      Fortunately our youngsters know that money is tight. They know they will get presents at Christmas & on their Birthday. Though they may indeed get something they “MUm/Dad I really want one of those” they don’t find out if they have until they actually open that gift.
      That, for ours, keeps the Magic Alive.
      Yes, we have a slap-up Christmas Dinner, Yes, we probably have a few too many drinks. We are lucky for we have a seperate Dining Room now so the Table is a Big Surprise too! Even when we had no seperate Dining Room the children were kept out of the kitchen, away from the Table - they are so busy with the gifts they do get they don’t want to go anywhere near any place where they might be asked to work as they are the rest of the year!!!
      Christmas is nothing more than a great, big Commercial Event. It is all about making money.
      Christmas, the Excitement, the Magic, the Fun of it all has been totally destroyed by Retailers - large & small.

    • Kika says:

      08:58am | 12/12/11

      Isn’t that up to the parents to ensure Christmas remains special to their kids?

    • Dan Webster says:

      08:27am | 12/12/11

      Just once I would like to someone from the media have the balls and write a pro-Christmas article. Years of playing the Bah Hum Bug (just to get a response) is getting boring.

      BIG YAWN from me.

      Besides, what is “true” in this world anymore?

    • jimbo says:

      08:39am | 12/12/11

      Don’t believe in Christmas?  Off to work with you during the Christmas holidays then Grinch.  It is obvious that a lot of people live bitter lives and wish to spread their particular kind of joy to their happy smiling well adjusted children.  Bah Humbug.

    • David says:

      09:47am | 12/12/11

      Actually we are entitled as workers to a certain number of public holidays every year. As long as I get them, I don’t care what time of the year you give them to me.

    • HappyCynic says:

      10:21am | 12/12/11

      @jimbo

      I’d be happy to, unfortunately for me and others who would also happily work on the day most offices are locked up tight.  Also public transport sucks more than usual, the shops are all closed, nowhere to buy coffee and so on.

      We’re basically forced to take the day off whether we like it or not.

    • fairsfair says:

      08:47am | 12/12/11

      Yes. Lets destroy every representation of childhood innocence as soon as possible. Those damn kids, how dare they get one decade of their life with little to no responsibility and experience pure joy at the simple things. This Christmas, tell your kids that humans are evil and life is generally unpleasant and buy them an iPhone when they are 4. That way, they will grow up and be happy - like all of us.

      How miserable can it get.

    • Kika says:

      08:50am | 12/12/11

      I don’t know if anyone else has noticed… maybe it’s me… but the word Santa is suspciously an anagram for Satan. There ya go~!

    • Al says:

      09:11am | 12/12/11

      At your local Satanic church:
      “All hail Santa! All hail Santa! Hang on, thats a typo, All hail Satan!”

    • Ben C says:

      09:20am | 12/12/11

      You must have missed the jokes about the dyslexic man selling his soul to Santa.

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      09:49am | 12/12/11

      Dislexic, insomniac, agnostic lying awake at night wondering if there really is a dog.

    • TimB says:

      10:14am | 12/12/11

      According to Ted’s hyper-religious relatives on HIMYM, Santa is how Satan spells his name when he’s trying to trick us smile

    • subotic says:

      10:27am | 12/12/11

      Well I’ll eat me a puppy if “Kika says” isn’t an anagram of Kiss a yak.

      Just sayin…

    • Kiss a Yak says:

      12:15pm | 12/12/11

      @Subotic…. Amazing.  It is too. Kiss a Yak. That can be my new pseudonym.

    • iansand says:

      09:33am | 12/12/11

      The Santa queue needs grid girls.  That is all.  You know it makes sense.

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      10:01am | 12/12/11

      And midgets with nachos and a bowl of dip strapped on top of their heads to feed the girls while they frolick haphazardly with icey cold water in containers that spill all to easily down th front of their lightly woven and coloured shirts that were inconveniently ripped just above their navels.

    • Mahhrat says:

      10:04am | 12/12/11

      Dude, Elves.  Srsly.

      Last year I think was the first time I ever saw a male Elf.  All the other Elves have been far more pleasant conversation than Santa.

    • Carz says:

      09:58am | 12/12/11

      My kids know the value of their Christmas presents because they know that I pay for them and send them to Santa to deliver. However, I must admit that, as they are 10 and 12, the whole Santa thing is getting a bit old to me. I don’t want to take the magic away from them. But at what point do you just say enough?

    • Ryan says:

      11:29am | 12/12/11

      3 years ago.

    • Kika says:

      12:17pm | 12/12/11

      My friends kept up the charade that they believed in Santa because they thought their parents would stop buying them presents if they knew they knew the truth. Hahaha.  Carz I think your girls would know Santa isn’t real anymore.

    • neo says:

      10:40am | 12/12/11

      Just tell your kids there is no Santa :S

      I don’t think I ever believed in Santa, my parents kept telling me he is real, but I always knew it’s them getting me the pressies. They were pretty good at tricking me to be elsewhere when they put the pressies under the tree though :(

    • Real Whirled says:

      10:41am | 12/12/11

      The real world is full of such beauty. Its complex, fascinating and the development of anything close to an initial understanding of the world in which we live probably doesn’t require make-believe.

      A truly beautiful ‘imagination’, coming from a place of at least what is currently ‘make-believe’ would dream up images of a peaceful happy world free of famine, violence and unnecessary pain.

      Surely we can encourage our kids to develop and utilise their imaginations and happiness to dream of a better world without requiring ‘Santa’. Hey, that imagination might actually lead to solutions to some awful problems faced by our society and others.

    • Sonny Carrington says:

      11:02am | 12/12/11

      BAH HUMBUG !!!
      Why doesn’t The Punch just get rid of you !
      I count my blessings this Christmas season that I am not within smelling distance of you!

    • Joan of Botany. says:

      11:03am | 12/12/11

      The Santa thing is one myth that the retailers are super-keen to hang onto, for obvious reasons.
      I think its OK for you to tell your kids from the start that the Santa hoopla is not real, and introduce them to the notion of myths.
      Treat it as a fun childhood thing, and they will grow out of it when they hit their teens.
      As to the questions re timing, just say that a lot of people believe it was around the time Jesus was born, but it may not be the actual time, just like the Queen’s Birthday holiday is not the actual date of the Queens birthday. They will make their own mind up as to what they want to believe in due course.

    • pj says:

      11:03am | 12/12/11

      I can assure each and everyone that there are more pressing issues going on in Australia that SUCK a lot more!
      Santa is a part of our culture,you don’t like it “go back to where you come from.”

    • david says:

      11:19am | 12/12/11

      Adelaide?

    • Al says:

      11:31am | 12/12/11

      Santa is a part of our culture,you don’t like it “go back to where you come from.”

      Ummm, but I came from Australia so where do you want me to go?

    • andre says:

      11:21am | 12/12/11

      Santa is as real as tooth fairies, and a frog becomin a prince.
      Isnt evolutionism the same ? Frog become a prince only after a loooong loooong time..

    • JY says:

      11:36am | 12/12/11

      can we not leave kids with some semblance of ‘magic’ they believe in fairies, imaginary friends etc

      how about next time you time your journey better and get their earlier so that you get Santa nice and fresh when he hasn’t had to put up with feral kids kicking him, pulling his beard off and leaving sticky hand prints on his suit

      seriously if you were devo and are still devo as an adult about finding out Santa isn’t real then stop whining if this is all you have had to deal with, count yourselves lucky

    • Aussie Born and Bred says:

      11:37am | 12/12/11

      Stephen, that was YOUR thoughts of the Santa visit.  What about your kids?  What did they think?

      Did their eyes light up when they saw Santa?  Did they get all excitied?
      Did they have smiles like split watermelons?

      What do you do at Easter, Stephen?  Do you tell ‘em the Easter Bunny is bullshit and not give your kids Easter Eggs?

      And what about the Tooth Fairy?  Does she exist in your house, or has she been given the arse?

      Why would ANY parent want to take such magical things away from their children???

    • I hate Chrismas says:

      12:10pm | 12/12/11

      Ive had this argument thrown my way many times mainly by woman. Its hypocritcal and dumb because they are usually he type woman that grow up and believe in fantasies like “love” and marriage. Morons really.

      Another thing - no half decent parent cares what their kid thinks because they are kids which means they are stupid and their opinions worthless. Smart parents try and educate their children from a young age by telling them that santa, the easter bunny etc are nothing but marketing tools designed to make money off morons.

      Why would ANY adult actually think that make believe marketing tools are “magical” and good to brainwash children with?

    • Quailie says:

      12:51pm | 12/12/11

      Those poor woman.

    • Dan Webster says:

      01:04pm | 12/12/11

      @ I Hate Christmas - Please don’t become a parent, you seem far to damaged by society.

    • neo says:

      01:36pm | 12/12/11

      Well, I’m sure the kiddies can have fun with those characters while appreciating the fact that they are ordinary people dressed in costumes. Get them to read fantasy, plenty of magical things to enjoy there while being able to draw a distinction between reality and imagination.

    • Aussie Born and Bred says:

      02:52pm | 12/12/11

      @ I hate Chrismas

      Wow, mate, I sincerely hope you’re single and childless.

    • Farken says:

      12:44pm | 12/12/11

      Stephen Harrington why dont you tell your kids you are a kill joy and they will be to if they follow in your foot steps or you could to some thing better get together with other young family’s and hire a Santa and take your own photos

    • the Labor Landslide says:

      12:47pm | 12/12/11

      If Santa Claus is still around on Boxing Day, he can defend his Heavyweight Boxing Title !

    • myname says:

      12:54pm | 12/12/11

      “why do we still persist with the entire Santa myth at all?”

      Good point. The same can also be said of the christian and islam myths.

    • Kathy M says:

      01:12pm | 12/12/11

      You should have gone to Domayne North Gosford, we were the only people in the queue, by the time we were finished two more couples with children were standing behind us. 

      Santa was just wonderful and greeted us with a fabulous smile.  Instead of just sitting in his chair when the queue emptied momentarily, he every now and again circled the store greeting children with a wonderful smile and ringing his bell.  Keep away from the Westfield type stores, there are other avenues.

      PS Did you have a miserable childhood?

    • JY says:

      01:39pm | 12/12/11

      I was at Erina Fair with my sister yesterday and we got there at 9, sat in a coffee shop until the shops opened and then went wandering, the line up at Santa was pretty small until 11 when the lunch crowd came in, get there early enough and you can miss the big crowds, Santa even waved at us as we went past

    • the Labor Landslide says:

      01:42pm | 12/12/11

      Give him your best Xmas Meal on Boxing Day.

    • Jade says:

      02:25pm | 12/12/11

      I remember back when I did believe in Santa (when I was a little kidlet), I would be bursting with excitement trying my hardest to fall asleep as soon as I could so that it would be morning. I would then wake up at the crack of dawn straight into the santa sack (no stockings in our house, they were too little raspberry). Then I would run outside to the yard to look for the sleigh marks on the lawn, which I would always find.

      Christmas is fun, I don’t look at it as a religious event. To me it is about spending time with your family eating good food and talking crap smile

      When I have kids I will tell them about Santa and the Easter bunny because it makes it somewhat magical, in their eye’s anyway! Why deny them that?

    • thatmosis says:

      02:41pm | 12/12/11

      Alicia and Steve M this problem would be solved if this whole"festive” season was canned.  Its an afront to any thinking person to have this crap forced down ones throat every year just to appease those who think this is a special occasion for some ficticious being and to serve the gods of commerce and gluttony. Bah Humbug

    • JY says:

      03:00pm | 12/12/11

      then don’t go out at all, sit in your house and watch movies or tv series, don’t ruin a perfectly good day for the rest of us. I don’t like how Halloween is being brought into Aus but I don’t go around and bitch about it, just ignore it, easy to do.

    • Lisa says:

      04:20pm | 12/12/11

      I couldn’t agree more.  Why pay for your kids to have a picture taken with a man you don’t even know.  Stay at home and do it for free.  WHy do people lie to their children and then when there “old” enough get told - Oh hang on I was actually lying all those years.  My mother still tells me how broken hearted she was when as a child she saw her mother putting her present under her bed.  It seems to me that the whole world are totally unimaginative bunch if you have to be told on what date of the year to give presents to each other.  Anyone with any brains knows that Jesus wasn’t even born on 25th December and what a pagan celebration has to do with Jesus is beyond me.  The funniest thing though is that people put a great big star at the top of their Christmas tree - not even realising that it was Satan that made the star glow so brightly.  As is God would put it there knowing that Herod was trying to have him killed!  “Yes I’m trying to keep my son safe by putting a giant beacon above where he is staying so that Herod can kill him so much more easily.

    • Old Salty says:

      04:26pm | 12/12/11

      Just another commercialised holiday that succeeds in convincing the gullable among us to part with our hard earned dollars. Sure, give the children gifts for Christmas but this overcommercialisation is just a cess pool of glutiny and greed by mechandisers. If you feel as though you have to give gifts to everyone in your life then you are sadly missing what friendship is all about. Just be satisfied with these for words. Merry Christmas everyone!

    • Amazed says:

      07:26pm | 12/12/11

      Nothing like the great Christmas spirit for YOUR kids is there.. you suck.

    • NESLIHAN KUROSAWA says:

      09:35pm | 12/12/11

      Hi Stephen,

      We do not want that sort of talk, please!!  Do you want all the toy stores, the employees & Santa Clauses of shopping malls to be out of jobs? Only joking!  At this day & age we most certainly appreciate the power of advertising.  And of course, the actual packaging more than the actual contents & what is exactly inside!

      I personally think that we should not dash the dreams,  Christmas wishes & hopes of the little children all over the world . Of course, it is all about selling & marketing certain products to Australian families. That is just the way it goes.  We all love the idea of buying gifts & making other people in our lives happy. In turn it is actually good for the actual retail sales & the economy.

      Are you trying to spoil the actual magic & fun of Christmas for all of us?Please, please & pretty please think twice before you answer this question! Best regards to your editors.

    • Peter says:

      07:43am | 13/12/11

      Stephen,

      Xmas is about your kids,  not you. Take time to stop and watch the joy it brings to your kids and the kids around you.

      One day when you are older and wiser you will understand.

      “VIRGINIA O’HANLON.
      “115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET.”

      VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men’s or children’s, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

      Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

      Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that’s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

      You may tear apart the baby’s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

      No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

    • Dieter Greulich says:

      08:52am | 13/12/11

      Well, after all who cares? but I drink to that.

    • Dana says:

      09:57am | 13/12/11

      I don’t have any particular stake in whether Jesus existed or not.  Even if he did exist, nothing we do or say is ever good enough and we can never be able to be saved in precisely the right way.  If all we need to do is believe in him as lord and savior, then there are psychopaths making it into heaven and all they have to do is believe in him and it doesn’t matter what else they’ve done in life;  meanwhile, perfectly good and decent people are going to hell.  That is a scam if you ask me, and I want no part of it.  But while we are on the subject, I find it curious that all we need is some historical figure mentioning him and that’s rock-solid proof that he existed.  By that standard, Odysseus and all the Greek gods existed too.  Sorry, you’ll have to come up with something better than a handful of historical writings and a stone box with generic names on it (and Jesus wasn’t buried anyway!  He supposedly ascended into heaven!) to constitute “proof” for someone with more than two brain cells to rub together.  Anyway, isn’t that what faith means?  That you *don’t* have proof, and you believe anyway?  Go ahead if it makes you feel better.  I don’t judge faith (though, as you can see, I judge dubious claims of fact).  But don’t expect me to believe it, and don’t set up society so that I can’t get away from it.  One thing I do know is the Bible heavily implies that faith in God should come paired with free will.  But Christians have not historically been content letting people believe what they will.  And then you wonder why the rest of us are suspicious of your motives.

 

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