Can families survive the pain of divorce?

Jade says:

07:35am | 03/04/11

When my Mother and my step father split (no marriage involved thank god) my step father used my sister as a financial pawn to get what he wanted against my Mother.  He then subsequently brainwashed my poor little sister into thinking that my Mother and our side of the family were horrible and hated her and made her think that living in a house full of drug and alcohol abuse and physical violence was okay. 

Thank god my sister grew up and realised what had happened and what he was really like and now calls him every 6 months to just to see if he is still alive (which she then regrets doing the next day).

The point of my comment Erick? Its not only women that are horrible.

Erick says:

09:27am | 03/04/11

Jade, it’s true that there are horrible men as well as horrible women; I’ve never claimed otherwise.

My point is that the current laws and traditions act to encourage horrible behaviour, rather than to reduce it. And things could get much, much worse, as the American divorce situation shows.

Eric says:

12:14pm | 03/04/11

That’s right Erick, divorce rates are all down to anti-male propaganda and and all those sneaky, tricksy women trying to get rich quick. I’m sure it has nothing to do with two people growing apart, that’s JUST what the feminists want you to believe.

Davido says:

01:21pm | 03/04/11

I agree that the family and federal courts introduce systematic damage to the family.
I don’t think it is due to ‘no fault’ though. ‘No fault’ has largely done away with the sham trials that really added nothing and helped very little at all.

However, with over 80% of contested cases in the family court being won by women it is not surprising the court is open to allegations of bias.
The family court and federal court dont record much in the way of statistics and it is not that surprising if they are so one-sided.

The interesting thing is the change in tools used by laywers over time.
For years the classic device was the unsubstantiated allegation of violence or abuse.
Such was the damage such an allegation would cause there was not need to back it up with any evidence.
Changes in the law helped curb the tidal wave of damage this tactic caused: unfortunately the current government is thinking about winding back those laws.

Recently the most popular weapon of damage has been the use of relocation.
This is essentially court sanctioned kidnapping. It is the ultimate tactic.

Erick says:

01:51pm | 03/04/11

“Eric”, when two people grow apart that’s their business - except when it involves children.

If “growing apart” will cause a no-fault divorce that damages those children for life, then I suggest the parents should man up and learn to live together, until those children are fully grown and independent.

Tom says:

02:22pm | 03/04/11

“grown apart”? What a vapid, self absorbed excuse for destroying their children’s world. What morons would support that as a reason?

Blokes having their mid life crisis or younger chicky-babe or women having their “shirley valentine” self discovery. Both are grubs.

And don’t the Family Court just love bullying the decent males just to prove that they are not totally ineffectual in addressing dead-beat fathers.

Rowe says:

02:29pm | 03/04/11

erick @ 1:51pm said it well.

“Growing apart” is a sad cop-out for the vapid, lazy and selfish. It’s usually used by women to explain their selfish behaviour when they break up with a man because their life didn’t turn out to be the fairytale they expected.

Elphaba says:

04:52pm | 03/04/11

Erick: “If “growing apart” will cause a no-fault divorce that damages those children for life, then I suggest the parents should man up and learn to live together, until those children are fully grown and independent.”

Erick, I have watched that situation produce just as f*cked-up children as two parents who divorce do.

‘No fault’ has made divorce easier to obtain, but there are plenty of reasons why marriages fail.  If all the work has been done, if the counselling and the mediation, and the homework set has been exhausted,  to sentence people to stay in an unhappy marriage is ludicrous - regardless of whether children are involved.

Not to mention the individuals who act like one person before they get married, and before the ink is dry on the marriage certificate, change into someone else.  I’ve seen it happen.  And you lack some serious life experience if you think it doesn’t.

Despite the ease of which a divorce can be obtained, or how it might have cheapened the institution of marriage, it is still something that needs to be made available.  What it should do, is encourage people to not rush marriage and spend plenty of time getting to know one another, before taking the plunge.

Tator says:

05:44pm | 03/04/11

Having been through the Family Court myself with a divorce plus dealing with FCA orders professionally and my partner having worked there for quite a few years, this is my perspective of what is wrong (BTW, all of my FCA procedings have been finalised for over 8 years and I got out of the property settlement quite well)
No fault divorces are fine when all parties are in agreeance, but there must also be the facility for the courts to issue blame in cases where one party is attempting to take another to the cleaners just by precipitating the divorce and taking a large percentage of the community property (ie wife runs off with anothe bloke, takes the kids and subsequently receives over 70% of the community property on top of child support etc).
Then there is the issue of child contact orders.  The Family Court has mistakenly taken the philosophy of that they are a warm and fuzzy court for families when they should be a court of law dealing with family law issues.  This becomes an issue because the court is loathed to punish people for deliberate breachs of Family Court Orders.  There is also the issue of enforcing such orders, normal State Police are unable to enforce contact orders as only Fedpol Special Agents can legally enforce such orders and in most Capital Cities away from Canberra, this is rarely done due to poor resource levels
Then you have the level of evidence provided where both hearsay, non expert opinion and assumptions are allowed as evidence and there are little in the way of repercussions for perjury.
Then there is the lack of consideration that the FCA takes into account of the level of child support the non-residental parent has to pay where not only do they lose the vast majority of their families wealth, they also had their reestablishment crippled by heavy child support levels.  Prior to Howards reforms back in 2006ish, the CSA and its scheme were so biased towards the resident parent in both the Child support formula and the CSA’s draconian rulings against none resident parents

acotrel says:

10:30pm | 03/04/11

@Tom You have a very dirty mind.  Not all d ivorces are about the participants banging other people.  My ex’s father was on the Kokoda trail during WW2, when he returned he was mentally unhinged.  My ex bore the brunt of that as the eldest child, she got belted quite often.  The result was that she always saw me as the same sort of person, and treated me with contempt.  I was always the bastard, regardless of bringiing home the bacon, providing a home, studying at might school ans teaching my kids to behave like adults.  We never fought, passive resistance, long silences were the order of the day - unbearable isiolation for me.I came home from work one night, and was told ‘I think I want a divorce’.  I answered, ‘you’ve got it’.  And we sat down and split every penny and assett right down the middle, no solicitors, no fight, no recriminations.  I’ve remarried, had the operations to combat heart attack and stroke - all caused by stress.  I now live a happy life in retirement, and I cannot remember many details of my previous life!  The only thing I would say about getting divorced - if you’re with the wrong person, don’t leave it too long to move on.  The kids will only benefit from your separation, and you are entitled to some happiness in your life. Kids suffer when people divorce, but if the example before them is bad, you need to consider which path causes the least harm. My three chilren are over thirty now, none have partners. So Tom have a long look at yourself before you generalise about other people’s marriages.

Shelly says:

01:02pm | 04/04/11

You should hear it from the kid’s perspective. My teen son was telling me that all but one of his friends live in family situations where mum and dad aren’t together either through divorce or because mum and dad were never married and have split. (That is our case.) They laughingly nominate their fathers for “Deadbeat Dad” awards based on a whole range of things. Current winner’s dad hasn’t been in touch for 8 years. They reckon that’s going to be hard to top. And no, the mums haven’t spent years verbally bashing the dads in his absence, or putting him down. The kids don’t seem to be angry. They just seem to be normal kids with families that aren’t a Mum and Dad together. And like my son, the kids would be happy to see their dad if he turned up. They just wouldn’t rely upon him to do so.

Thommo says:

09:34am | 03/04/11

Oh please….without the so-called most selfish act there is , none of us would be here. What a wank.

Carz says:

12:55pm | 03/04/11

No Thommo, if it was a wank we still wouldn’t be here.

Mahhrat says:

09:49pm | 03/04/11

Thommo, what part of reproduction is NOT selfish?

The desire to reproduce is fundamental to our existence, obviously, but this doesn’t make it less selfish.  We wish to perpetuate our bloodline, to gain some measure of immortality!

There is no single act more selfish than that!  We wish to love, and to be loved, and so we find the best partner we can keep and we join to produce miniature versions and so influence the wider world.

Don’t get me wrong, Thommo, I am all about family and have a chlid of my own - having kids is great and we should all do it, of course!  It’s still inherently selfish.

James1 says:

09:48am | 04/04/11

Mahhrat,

What about an unplanned child?  Ours was unplanned, and the selfish decision in that situation would have been abortion and going on with our lives like it had never happened.  Instead, we decided to give that tiny bundle of cells a chance at life - despite being only 19 and 20 at the time.

Carz says:

12:59pm | 03/04/11

I did that for a long time. My kids right to have both parents in their home was more important than my happiness and safety. Until my marriage became such a source of stress that I was suicidal. Delaying the end like I did meant that my kids were exposed to years more of stress and disharmony than they would have been if I had ended the marriage earlier. Sometimes it is simply better for kids to be from a broken marriage than in the midsts of one.

The Original Oz says:

10:43am | 04/04/11

I grew up in a household where the parents stayed together “for the sake of the kids”. There was no physical violence involved but the mental and psychological games played had some profound effects on the kids, particularly in relation to skewed understandings of what a relationship is. Every one of us, my siblings and myself, still experience problems in relationships. Between the five of us we have accumulated 9 divorces over the years. Although we all now seem to be settled (for myself 21 years in my current relationship) strains within relationships are still obvious to the casual observer.
Making a decision to stay together “for the sake of the children” is not making the best decision for the children.

John says:

06:59pm | 04/04/11

“Realistic expectations” EXACTLY!!!
There are way too many princesses out there who expect a knight in shining armour to rescue them from their boring mundane lives and to be a complete slave to their every whim. There are way too many dropkicks who expect the little woman to cook/clean/f**k and to be a complete slave to their every whim.
Matches made in hell.

Annabelle says:

08:01am | 04/04/11

Exactly. My parents separated when I was 14. It was painful at the time but it was the best thing for all of us. People change, life changes. It’s not a matter of being selfish. It’s just life, human nature. We put too much stock in the fantasy of marriage and ‘till death do us part’.  It’s no use going into denial about reality and putting everyone involved through years of misery. Of course, it’s up to the parents to behave in a civilised manner after the separation and put the kid’s needs first. It can be done if everyone leaves their egos at the door. I think it was ultiumately character building and has given me a more realistic outlook on life. One thing is for sure I will never get married. The idea of lifelong committment and happy ever after is just not realistic.

Paul Horn says:

06:46pm | 04/04/11

You see Elizabeth that’s exactly where the problem is! We are so dominated by the filth of Hollywood and womens magazines that we divorce when ” true love” dies out. It is a nothing but a lie, a detestable furphy.

Marriage takes more than “true love”! It takes respect, friendship and a willingness to tough it out in the hard times. No one and I mean no one swans around every moment of their married lives in some dirty stinking Hollywood fantasy!

People who carp on about “having grown apart” are nothing but selfish indolents. We live in a society where the progressive troglydytes of the 60’s that now run the media, Hollywood and our political institutions do everything in their power to make marriage a scam, a joke even a perversion of the natural order.

Today marriage means nothing. In every society apart from the West marital relationships are governed by a set of strict social rules. Romance is not even a concept and guess what they survive.

In the past (> 50 years ago) our society honoured marriage as a social structure that formed the basis on which our society thrived. It had nothing to do with two morons loving each other bla bla bla but everything to do with two people submitting themselves to the greater communal good. Divorce was less about two people letting each other down and everything about failing society.

Sure we need divorce in extreme cases of violence, infidelity or desertion but these are in the extreme minority despite feminist propaganda.   

Now with the progressive filth and their Labour party minions legislating a sick inhuman social agenda marriage has become meaningless. We no longer have a community that ascribes to any value system. Families can be anything. It’s all about how you feel, or want or perceive things and utterly nothing about submitting yourself to a greater common good.

The result is Elizabeth an increasing number of people who will live alone, become outcasts and who have no connection to a society that no longer exists. It is surprising to me that we still function as a society, that we have not deteriorated into total anarchy. There is still time however.

AJL says:

03:57pm | 04/04/11

Great story about why “stay together for the kids” is a total failure.

I have a similar story.  My parents split when I was about 14 (I’m 26 now), and my brothers were about 11, 7 and 5.  It hurt like hell when it happened, but both parents told us all (especially me and the next oldest) that it was in no way our fault.

From day 1 it was made clear that it was all about us four kids.  My mum moved out into a rented home a suburb away (feasible walking distance for a healthy teenage boy) and dad retained the marital home (and later bought out mum’s share of the home as part of the property settlement).  We were on a shared care arrangement before Howard made 50/50 the baseline (IMO court mandated shared care is a total disaster), two weeks at a time with each parent.  I remember no fights over custody or property (my mum has always been big on keeping her own stuff separate, meaning that most property belonged to one or the other).  All major decisions were made jointly, all parent/teacher nights attended together, all kid-related costs shared.

Having seen other families who leave it too late, I’m glad my parents broke up when they did.  I had enough trouble as a teenager without throwing “parents constantly fighting” into it.

The outcome of that is that now, 12 years later, they are capable of at least being around each other and being civil.  I’m happily married with a beautiful baby girl.  Both of my parents (and their respective partners) attended my wedding, both are wonderful grandparents to my daughter, and my father even drove two of my brothers (I drove the third, Mum was down there helping my grandfather) two hours away last year to attend my maternal grandmother’s funeral (and yes, my father and stepmother were both welcomed there).

I wonder what sort of person I, and my brothers, would be if they’d stuck together “for the kids”, and ended up fighting and arguing all the time?

Survivor says:

10:28am | 05/04/11

Ray, you couldn’t be more wrong in my case. I was the main bread-winner in our marriage and after I finally left my violent husband I have more money (all earned by me) than I ever had when I lived with that spend-thrift, dead-beat ‘dad’. He has wasted the money he got in the property settlement and now lives broke and alone in an old rented bed-sit.

Cynical, but not that cynical says:

08:20am | 06/04/11

that’s a rather cynical and warped view.  Men can also be vengeful, scornful, lazy and obsessed with themselves.

Survivor says:

01:20pm | 05/04/11

Ray… are you saying that women who are victims of domestic violence should stay with their violent husbands… or are you denying that domestic violence actually exists at all?

... or are you just trolling?