Can children thrive on benign neglect?

rick says:

11:24am | 13/07/10

Alright, hang on.

This is being written by someone who had a happy childhood and turned out to be a happy adult. I consider myself also within that pack and deb seems to be too. Good on us.

But what if this article was being written by someone from the other side of the river? deb, i did too onjoy the ‘exploring in the bush’, but that’s just because we didn’t run into any pedophiles. Times have changed.

I don’t say lock your kids up. Actually agree with you guys to the opposite. But don’t totally forget about them and be cautious too. And teach them well how to keep out of danger.

A Bob says:

12:14pm | 13/07/10

Pedo’s existed back in my day. And my mothers. The girls in her class at school were routinely fondled by a teacher in class in full view of everyone. Difference between now and then is that people got away with it back then.

It seems more prevalent now because them media reports everything and we are far less tolerant.

Kate Hunter says:

12:49pm | 13/07/10

Hi Rick - I recommend you read Free Range Kids by Lenore Skenazy. It’s a fun, fascinating read because she has crunched the numbers and proves (statistically, anyway) that kids today have never been safer from injury and abduction. We have a screwed up perception of things these days because there is soooo much more news space to fill (online, cable etc), and so every time something bad happens to a kid it is covered for longer, in more lurid detail than it would have been twenty - even ten years ago. Skenazy doesn’t recommend ignoring the risks but suggests ways you can teach your kids what to do if they feel threatened, without freaking them out. Truly, the world is no more dangerous than it was when I was a kid, but for lots of kids it’s heaps more boring.

Survivor says:

09:06pm | 13/07/10

Rick, children are more likely to be sexually assaulted by their own parents, a relative or a trust family friend than the stranger lurking in the bush. And yes, it was the same in the “good old days”—it’s just as A Bob says, people got away with it back then.  There are many convicted child sexual assault perps in your suburbs—the papers can never reveal their names because they will reveal the identity of their child victims. Their own kids.  So many pedos still get away with it now because parents are automatically angels and the hapless bachelor is still regarded with suspicion in the eyes of many.

rick says:

10:07pm | 13/07/10

Good points Bob and Kate, I agree. Kate, the book sounds interesting. I’ll look into it. But that was also my final point - to teach them how to stay out of danger, and this goes against the article which in my view, leans more towards the other extreme. And yes, you’ve got a point that there is more reporting and media coverage these days.

Robert Smissen Rural SA says:

12:09am | 14/07/10

Rick old chum, “stranger danger” is mostly bullshit, a child is far more likely to be interfered with by someone close to them, often the byfriend of the mother

melo says:

11:43am | 14/07/10

agreed, rick and bob. as a 40yr old mum who also grew up in the ‘freedom’ days, but also grew up on the ‘wrong side of the tracks’. i had to deal with more than my fair share (as alot of neighbourhood kids) of paedos, perverts, domestic violence, sexual abuse and neglect. in ‘the good ole days’ it was considered an open secret amoungst us kids, just another day in the life. it was never acknowledged or dealt with by parents, teachers, or government bodies. its something you never forget, and has shaped me deeply. yes it has made me stronger in some ways but vulnerable in others. before you start preaching the ‘good ole days’ thru rose-coloured glasses, think of the many generations behind us who didn’t have the peachy creamy childhood the lucky some have enjoyed.

Reg says:

03:17pm | 13/07/10

Oh DD where are you values? Grease ..really? Hardly a musical, more a spectacle with distraction from the dreadful sound reinforced vocals.  Anyhow you’re obviously prematurely old. 

I spent my youth in the country discovering places and things miles from home on my bike. Sunset was always a problem in the tropics. Very little warning of its sudden decent. No way I’d let my kids out on bikes like that in Sydney. Too many car obsessed glassy eyes idiots on the road.

Unfortunately computers tend to train kids minds into narrow channels without needing to develop an adventurous spirit or an analytical mind. This is not good in my opinion. They are even worse than comics of my day where one still had to exercise one’s imagination rather than have it exercised by someone else.

Yes I encountered pedophilia. The worst by far was a Scout Master of apparently impeccable credentials. So I guess that would not be benign neglect, it would be organised neglect.

The second was the steam roller driver with the baggy shorts. Not impressed at all. Yuck!

The third was a school mate with a propensity for other guys. At least I grew up fully aware of my sexual orientation and that’s a big help. I have always tried to gain something positive from any experience and this brought me to become self-motivated over allowing my values to be set by the mob.  Or even by my parents. (Such a revolting child. Now I have a daughter who is just the same.)

There is just one major difficulty and fortunately I am conscious of it.

There is a tendency to apply the same harsh standards that I apply to myself, to others. But what are we supposed to do when the current trend is for individuals to abandon their individuality and throw in their hands with the mob?

I suggest it is the lack of strong independent character that allows many of the evils of the world to exist, and that includes pedophilia and religion. Oops, that lost a few followers. But which?

Isabel says:

09:18am | 13/07/10

Healthy neglect and clean dirt. Seven of us were raised on this and it is amazing how many different directions were taken. Seven different paths, sets of values and lifestyles. Mostly, the only thing we had in common were our parents and our memories differ on that to the extent we could be talking about different people. It certainly served me well, though others may judge otherwise. Next generation down, my children seem to have each gone their own, highly individual way and my grandchildren are on different planets.

Justine says:

02:08pm | 13/07/10

No Thursty, from my distanced glance I don’t “think” my kids are okay - I “know” they’re okay.

Gail says:

07:58am | 14/07/10

Billy cart? and where would they use it, in our over protected society?

PatC says:

12:19pm | 14/07/10

Unfortunatly today if my kids rode a billy cart down the streets where I rode mine they would be arrested and fined for unlicensed driving or unregistered / unroadworthy vehicle or some other tripe.

If they were shoplifting or hitting drugs they’d get a warning but do something really criminal like ride in a billy cart…

Isabel says:

10:28am | 13/07/10

And my grandmother used to say that only boring people are bored and who wants to be that?

Eleanor says:

03:31pm | 13/07/10

Yeah, the people who said telly damages young brains clearly didn’t have Discovery Channel while growing up. I had something of a morbid fascination with the forensic detective shows which dealt with real-life murder and rape cases when I was in about grade 6. Now, CSI and Law and Order do nothing for me.

Kathy says:

01:20pm | 13/07/10

Francesca, I totally agree & had the same kind of childhood myself although we made mud pies, not “mad pies” like you.  Your pies sound like even more fun!!! 

The pendulum usually swings too far one way before swinging right back again, however on this issue I’m not sure that will be the case.

Emma says:

02:43pm | 13/07/10

I’m only 22 and I had that childhood! Though in saying that I grew up in a semi rural area on a 2 acre property that backed onto national forrest…

Leah Kennewell says:

11:17am | 13/07/10

I’d consign you to the spare room for calling me “the missus”!
How about you take the initiative and send your children out to the backyard, or take the family to a national park for a day and let the kids run ragged. Persist, as the kids might not be able to immediately amuse themselves. Later, quietly say soomething like, “the kids really enjoyed themselves today” and nothing more. Build little step by little step and the improvement in your children will drive change in your wife’s parenting habits. Good luck

SkepDad says:

12:04pm | 13/07/10

Thanks Leah   I was being a little tongue-in-cheek, and I wasn’t suggesting that I would or have ever abdicated responsibility for raising our tremendous kids. 

However, as a dad who works 60-80 hours a week, I have to defer somewhat to beloved and do sometimes get concerned about helicoptering and overscheduling.

Some topics such as parenting are very difficult to raise though, especially when full-time mums define themselves to some extent by their parenting ability.  This often (sadly) translates into unspoken scheduling competitions with other power mums.

There’s an anecdote I like about a parent running around the lawn, wrestling and causing a ruckus with their kids and the dog.  The other parent calls out from the porch: “stop it, you’re ruining the lawn!”.  The offending parent replies “I’m raising kids, not grass.”

Tails says:

12:13pm | 13/07/10

Leah - why should he have to take baby steps with his wife? - unless he’s married a 12 year old she should be mature enough to be able to take on board the opinion of HER HUSBAND who she MARRIED without getting all hepped up.
SkepDad - I know what you mean. I forwarded this story to my missus without thinking of the implications. But still, don’t forget they’re YOUR kids. Not yours or your wife’s but yours together. You should feel like you can suggest your theories without getting laughed or yelled at.

Macca says:

12:48pm | 13/07/10

or when I wanted a drink of cordial. It might have had bucketloads of sugar in it, but when you’re riding your bike all over the neighbourhood, playing touch footy or having a swim in your mates pool its thirsty work. And you burn it all off so quickly anyway. especially during an excellent game of tip-and-run street cricket.

Siggy says:

02:10pm | 13/07/10

You make an interesting point. 

In the group of kids that play in our area there is one in particular who I (and most of the other parents) have identified as heading down the path you describe and for much the same reasons as you mention.

He has minimal to no supervision.  Does not participate in any extra curricular activies (ie: sports, music etc). Has every single material desire fulfilled within minutes.  For example, my eldest son saved his pocket money for 15 weeks to buy a $150 scooter which ended up being coveted by the boy in question.  Two days later, he arrived at our house to show my son the new (same model) scooter that his parents had bought him just because he said he wanted it.

He is a bully.  He brags to the kids about drinking and smoking (both tobacco and marajuana and he is 11!) and he has been known to take accelerant to local bushland and start fires.  Needless to say, there is pretty much a blanket ban on any of the kids in the street going anywhere that he may be and some parents (myself included) have even banned him from entering our houses.

My point is that there is a difference between “benign neglect” and what I would call “neglect by indifference”.  I think you can get the balance right with the former but the latter is bordering on abuse.

DragonLass says:

11:05pm | 13/07/10

What you’re talking about there is completely different.  That’s not ‘benign neglect’.  That’s actual neglect.  What this article is about is letting kids relax and learn to entertain themselves sometimes.  Not leaving them to their own devices ALL the time.

SkepDad says:

02:44pm | 13/07/10

That’s unnecessarily harsh E.  Do you even have kids yourself?  The vast majority of parents want what’s best for their children and are far from stupid. 

Are you suggesting that nurturing plays no part in child development?  The majority of researchers would disagree with you.

My wife and I joked that our eldest would be “the first Socceroo with a Nobel Prize”.  I’d be ecstatic if that turned out true, but so long as he turns out happy, well adjusted and stays off drugs and out of jail, I’ll be happy.

Helicopter parenting stems from a large number of factors and can’t be simplified so dismissively.  Schools and universities are increasingly competitive.  The media likes nothing more than to bandy tales of predators and crime about.  We as parents want our kids to have opportunities that we missed out on.  Full-time carers look for a sense of identity that they lost when they gave up their careers.  And yes, there is competition for who has the brightest/cutest/sportiest/most accomplished child.  It’s not pretty, but it’s human nature.

I’d prefer a parent who over-engaged out of a desire to give their child every opportunity, than one who under-engaged out of narcissism or some post-PC desire to be seen to be counter-culture.

Reg says:

03:40pm | 13/07/10

SkepDad, “I’d prefer a parent who over-engaged out of a desire to give their child every opportunity, than one who under-engaged out of narcissism or some post-PC desire to be seen to be counter-culture.”
****
I notice you use the singular “parent.”  No doubt this is often the case, one parent over-riding the philosophical disposition of the other when it comes to how each see the needs of the child.

My sixth child has, in all her life, neither washed up, made her bed, prepared a meal or applied herself to her school work. Still she needs support from home even though she’s on the other side of Australia with the under-achieving boy-friend.

Her mother makes all sorts of excuses for her because the child is a diabetic and of course prone to depression. Now that she has an insulin pump, she uses it as a means by which not to take precautions about her diet. Do you see the pattern? Over-involvement in a child’s needs leaves them stumbling without the incentive to do the character building that life demands.  I have become estranged from my daughter because her mother provides for her every wish. My paternal role is one of holding my tongue unless I make things even worse and this has been a daily strain made worse during her unhappy high-school years. Letting go requires a cooperative parental decision but I think it would be a rare thing for both parents to agree about how it is to be done.

Mickey says:

03:53pm | 13/07/10

or SkepDad even better yet,how about letting kids be kids for a while? No need to go to either extreme. Rather than trying to create a four year old Nasa scientist, just let junior be junior. But unfortunately the competitive nature of a lot of parents puts their egos ahead of what is best for the child.

SkepDad says:

06:04pm | 13/07/10

Reg and Mickey, you’re preaching to the converted.  I agree and wholeheartedly support the philosophy of this article.  I was not defending helicopter parenting at all, but reacting to E’s simplistic take on it.

I have seen the effects first hand; firstly in my youngest brother, who was mollycoddled in a way that none of the others were and as a result found it very hard to operate independently of our mother until his late twenties.

I also see it happening with my kids, particularly my son (the eldest) who is overscheduled to the point of exhaustion.  Fighting against this, in a caring, understanding and cooperative way (rather than calling my alpha-mum partner “stupid”) is the key challenge in my day to day parenting.  She doesn’t quite get why I let him fall over, tell him to do things that I could do much quicker and more easily, and allow him to make mistakes.  She doesn’t get why I have such an issue with them sleeping in our bed and being unable to go to sleep without their mum lying beside them.  It drives me mental, but that’s marriage.

The reason I’d take an over-engaged parent over an under-engaged one, is that I suspect an over-engaging parent has the kids’ best interests at heart, and can be taught that wrapping them in bubblewrap isn’t in their best interests.  The narcissistic under-engager doesn’t care enough to change.

Note that I probably fall slightly in the second category (narcissistic, but not unwilling to change), so I’m well aware of how hard it is to get the balance right.  This is not preaching, but analysis.

Tedd says:

02:29pm | 13/07/10

The kids or the parents?

Peter says:

02:55pm | 13/07/10

Both I think…

James1 says:

02:54pm | 13/07/10

What do you mean?  Our only child regularly plays in the yard on her own, and has a lot of fun playing imagination-based games.  Just because you only have one doesn’t mean you need to be a helicopter parent.

Reg says:

04:51pm | 13/07/10

James 1, I have to ask, don’t you fear she may never learn the art of compromise if she is placed in solitary confinement?

This is the same problem as home-school kids have. I greatly admire the results obtained by some parents of home-schooled kids but when it come to facing off kids from the other side, the results are often heart-rending.

A Bob says:

06:01pm | 13/07/10

My father was an only child and was a generous, kind and responsible man. My mother was much more uncompromising and selfish despite being one of five. She always had to fight for things.

Another important rule of parenting: Make no assumptions.

James1 says:

10:16am | 14/07/10

Reg,

No I don’t worry about that.  She gets plenty of interaction at school, and during her regular visits to friends’ houses, and her friends’ regular visits to ours.  Sometimes though, she does play alone, and it does her no harm whatsoever.  Just because we let her play on her own in an unstructured way does not mean that we are isolated from the world, and I am puzzled as to why you would think that to be the case.

Nicole says:

03:38pm | 13/07/10

My children go to vacation care during holidays as I have to work and between my husband and I we don’t get 12 weeks a year leave. 

This exercise is not cheap however my kids get to enjoy planned activities. On the days they are home early enough (some daylight left) they then play out the front in the culdasac with the other children. They play cricket, basketball, hide and seek, bullrush, soccer and footy, I think my children are getting the best of both worlds.