Campaign countdown: Julia conquers 7.30 Reportland

Sherlock says:

09:22am | 03/06/10

Really? I don’t agree. However if Julia Gillard is PM at the next election it just make me vote Labor again.

As much as I should vote for the best government the thought of watching the magnificent trail of destruction that Gillard as PM would leave behind may be a spectacle not to be missed.

The woman is completely useless. The overseer of the disaster that was Medicare Gold which practically lost the Labor party the 2004 election on it’s own.

The author of the Labor party’s 2007 industrial relations policy which was so bad it had to be immediately withdrawn and rewritten. The continual dismay on Kevin Rudd’s face was priceless as it revealed to him each day what a dog of a policy he allowed his offsider total control over. To this day I contend that it’s the prime reason he now feels the compulsion to oversee everything.

Now the B.E.R. Probably the most rorted government program in Australia’s history. Multiple billions of dollars going to Labor mates resulting in schools receiving inadequate facilities for multiple times their true cost.

Wait to the election campaign when Tony Abbot holds his daily press conference outside a different school every day. Cringe as he shows Australia the garage sized building that we paid $650,000 for.

Gillard for PM? Yes please. She’s got my vote already

Ryan says:

11:34am | 03/06/10

Who cares who is leading the party, have you not seen the mess they have put this country into? You want four more years of lying and on top of that, we get the arrogance we see from Gillard who won’t every accept anything is wrong and no matter how large the problem is, the issues are ALWAYS shirked off as “isolated incidences”.

Tony says:

04:13pm | 03/06/10

She’s never had a real job in her life, having moved from being a union hack to a lawyer representing unions to an ALP politician.

BobM says:

04:57pm | 03/06/10

She is a wolf in sheep’s clothing - watch out!

persephone says:

05:28pm | 03/06/10

Tony

well, if being a lawyer isn’t a real job, about 80% of the Opposition have never had real jobs either.

Oh, and she wasn’t just a lawyer for the unions.

Kevin R says:

06:30pm | 03/06/10

As a wise man once said ‘f*** the unions’

antiperspirant says:

08:10am | 04/06/10

Ahh pers and her blame games. Never justifies just switches focus. Yawn,

Ed says:

04:41pm | 04/06/10

Hey, fair go on Rudd.  O’Brien’s gruilling of Rudd was an insulting performance, and not much better with Abbott. Maybe at last someone at the ABC had a word in his ear before the Gillard interview.  That word was ‘politeness’.

acotrel says:

08:04am | 05/06/10

Wrong party! It’s stupid to think Gillard would behave like some Lib pollie, and shaft her leader!

acker says:

08:06am | 03/06/10

The state involvement is the difference between blaming the Federal Govt as in the Insulation scheme problems and blaming the Federal Govt with the School Hall building program.
I think in the future these type of rollouts would probably be better off by-passing the State Govt’s and go directly to Local Govt’s to implement with a Federal Govt auditing oversight.
I also think Australia in particular NSW might have to evaluate what exactly what functions their state government performs
Just a quick look through the NSW Govt list of portfolios suggest to me they have too many of them and many that duplicate what local councils do ..for example a few

Hunter - Minister Jodi Mc Kay
Illawarra - Minister Paul Mc Leay
Western Sydney - Minister David Borger
Central Coast - Minister Ian Mc Donald
Lands - Minister Tony Kelly
Local Government - Minister Barbara Perry
Planning - Minister Tony Kelly (Minister Barbara Perry assisting)
Redfern/Waterloo - Premier Kristina Keneally
Rural Affairs (seperate to Primary Industries) - Minister Tim Whan
State & Regional Development - Minister Ian Mc Donald
State Plan - Minister Linda Burney

Just a small selection of the ones that I think duplicate Local Councils out of the 53 NSW Government Portfolios

http://www.directory.nsw.gov.au/Portfolios.asp

What a friggin mess-no wonder the NSW BER projects cost so much having to drive that state bureacratic payroll.

Kay says:

11:40am | 03/06/10

I agree with you completely Sceptical, she only sounds good because she’s just getting better at the SPIN than Rudd has been in the past 3 years or so.  I would not trust her any more than Rudd.  It’s amazing how easily fooled the majority of the public can be!  Or is it the fact that Labor voters are just hoping for a faint chance that someone might be an alternative to Rudd, at least for now?

Wilko says:

10:14pm | 03/06/10

Here, Here ( nodding head enthusiastically )

DT says:

01:17pm | 04/06/10

Gillard is deputy prime minister and one of the gang of four that are the decision makers in this government, she is personally responsible for the wastage of taxpayers monies in so called BER and for the IR law changes that are badly flawed. As a lawyer and deputy she was unable to sway Rudd from his home insulation mindset that led to a trail of destruction and more waste of money. No company board would promote her so why would taxpayers?

persephone says:

08:48am | 03/06/10

Well, there are over 200 projects in our local electorate.

Despite strident pleas in the local media asking people to complain to their office, our local member has only been able to find one - a school whose portables were removed before the new buildings were ready for occupation.

Please outline your problems with the powers of the commission - so easy to bag something on someone else’s say so.

Nitzpicker says:

10:21am | 03/06/10

@persephone 200 projects?, my wife is a teacher, her brother, my sister, let me just say im surrounded by them and sunday lunch is dominated by teacher speak, my wifes school has had painters in, painters that dont prep their work, they painted over blue tack, tacks, tape, plastic bags, its pathetic, they also had a large shade “pergola” put in at a ridiculous price, it isnt even up to australian standards it doesnt drain water, has to be modified. I would love to see some transparency over the tender process. People under a labor gov who complain end up on the street. Why do you think Howard introduced the BIT and its powers.

JR says:

12:07pm | 03/06/10

Sorry Persephone? 200? I remember you saying that you lived in a rural electorate 130 km out of a city. Name the electorate please with 200 projects.

antiperspirant says:

01:34pm | 03/06/10

What is your local members name so I can conform this.

I do not believe a word you say like the very clever politician on last night.

AC says:

01:44pm | 03/06/10

“Please outline your problems with the powers of the commission - so easy to bag something on someone else’s say so.”

Thats rich coming from you, Persephone, as you are the most uncredible poster on here. Still waiting for your critic on Rudd that you were going to post up…....

persephone says:

01:53pm | 03/06/10

AC

sorry, typo - you meant ‘incredible’.

(And modest, too…)

Yep, rural electorates have a lot of projects, because they have a lot of schools. Being spread out and all, they have lots of little towns, most of which have a primary school, some with only a handful of students.

I’m anonymous for excellent reasons, but if you go to

http://www.economicstimulusplan.gov.au/mycommunity/pages/default.aspx

you can enter the name of your electorate and find out how many projects there are and how much money they’re getting.

You can then compare that with the number of complaints you’re hearing/reading locally and work out the dissatisfaction rate locally for yourself.

I think you’ll find it’s very very low, but I wouldn’t want you to take my word for it.

JR says:

02:45pm | 03/06/10

Well Persephone, I am from MAYO. We have 96 000 people in our electorate. We would comfortably have 100 schools, as there are many small towns as you say. There are currenlty 11 projects in MAYO. 11. Why would that be? For those of you who do not know, MAYO is a safe Liberal seat and has been for almost three decades. It was Alexander Downers old seat. It is a disgrace that your electorate gets 200 projects and we get 11. A disgrace.

And Persephone, surely you are not in the only electorate with 200 projects. Name one with the same which is not your own if you wish to prove your point.

JR says:

03:01pm | 03/06/10

Persephone
My apologies I used the guide incorrectly (i have issued this apology before I have seen a reply from you). The result for MAYO is 310.

However, you once again were being intentionally misleading. She is the minister for education, and the discussion wa regarding the BER. Stevie was refering to the BER. You spoke about projects, included in your figure, which are not apart of the BER but the economic stimulus in general. And one project does not mean one school. One of the schools had 6 projects, some of them minor such as procurement and refurbishment.

If it is so wondeful why did you intentionally mislead everyone?

persephone says:

03:17pm | 03/06/10

JR

You’re still misusing the site!!

These are the results for Education - all of these projects are part of the BER, which is part of the stimulus package:

*As at 26/05/2010
Summary of Mayo
Total Projects: 214
Total Amount: $118,467,200
Total Projects shared by this electorate: 0
Total Amount shared by this electorate: N/A

Education: Projects: 214 Amount: $118,467,200
As you can see, over 200 projects. So my electorate is certainly not an outlier in this respect.

persephone says:

03:20pm | 03/06/10

JR

I’ve certainly made it clear in other posts (see below) that there are usually more than one project per school.

I didn’t say there were 200 schools in my electorate, I said 200 projects, which was quite deliberate on my part.

My whole point in providing the link to the site was so that people could judge for themselves. I’m not in anyway even attempting to mislead anyone.

Bruce says:

07:13pm | 03/06/10

Stevie: The teflon is yet to wear off big red !! When it does, that’s maybe when the real detail will come to the surface. It’s there to be had, someone only has to scratch the surface. All the commission has to do is ask all local builders / tradies who tender or tried to tender for contracts.  No doubt there will be those who would say “they are all lying” !!!

T.Chong says:

08:35am | 03/06/10

As you said Nitz, she can atleast talk policy
Much more than can be said for the LNPs Ms J. Bishop.

gOOgle says:

09:03am | 03/06/10

Nitz, take the beer goggles off. You’ve just seen the 4th and best airbrush pass above.

BTS says:

08:26am | 03/06/10

Agreed Paul.

A spectacular waste of public money.  Remarkable.  Maybe she’s becoming a cult leader for mainstream media.

Hugo says:

08:41am | 03/06/10

Totally agree

Her “great performance” also had much to do with O’Brien’s soft questioning.

Strange time indeed

persephone says:

08:52am | 03/06/10

Paul

justify.

The Liberals, in their list of cuts coming out of the budget, did not identify one cent of savings in the BER project going forward.

That’s despite the fact that there’s still at least $5 billion to be expended in the program.

So if there was massive waste and mismanagement, you’d think the Libs would be able to find a lazy billion or so in savings.

Remember, there are 24,000 projects across over 9,000 schools - no one on this planet can deliver on that scale in the necessary timeframe without a few mishaps.

That the media keeps referring to the same schools and the same problems suggests that they don’t have a wide range to chose from.

Diamantina Dick says:

09:15am | 03/06/10

They are casting around for the least worst option, looks like David has found it. Stay tuned for more of “yes they are bad but the others” are worse type articles like we have had in NSW for over 10 years and stand by to reap the rewards.

paul says:

09:32am | 03/06/10

persephone - Didn’t Tony Abbott say he was going to place the local P& C committees and local schools in charge of how the funds would be spent which would be getting back to the Catholic school localised model which would appear more successful.
Having trouble understanding yours and Julia’s argument that incompetance is ok if you are rushed, I think in the real world of private enterprise people have been rushed and made bad decisions but they have also paid with their Jobs.

Rob r Charteris says:

10:31am | 03/06/10

persephone says:08:52am; Here! Here! it amazes me how many liberal stooges try to pull any scrap they can find and present it as a national wide scam, only to be rebuffed on their own accusations. And when someone like J Gillards is prepare to stand up to scrutiny from KOB then all of a sudden he’s was giving soft questioning.

Kay says:

11:46am | 03/06/10

Agree with you Paul.  I don’t understand how one can be praised for being responsible for one of the worst-managed programs in Australia.  It’s clear and has been documented the number of times that the BER has been abused by overcharging for the various project works.  I’m tired of these incompetents being defended and even worse, praised!

antiperspirant says:

01:43pm | 03/06/10

“So if there was massive waste and mismanagement, you’d think the Libs would be able to find a lazy billion or so in savings.”

Rubbish and mistruths. The money is already budgetted to go out. You are being deliberately misleading.

The argument was never that the program itself should not go ahead or stimulus be provided but rather a building that should cost $1 million say should NOT be built for $1.3 whatever the reson.

This is not hard to do. Evidence the ease at which the private schools have recevieved value for money.

Don’t lie. Don’t change the argument to achieve a political point. Don’t be clever politically like Gillard.

“Remember, there are 24,000 projects across over 9,000 schools - no one on this planet can deliver on that scale in the necessary timeframe without a few mishaps.”

Why not. It is my money. Deliver it without mishap. What a cop out. What a cowardly response. The same thing could be said of any project then with more than 2 people in it. Her arguments boils down to this “well Fred was looking after that so it is not my problem.”

Same one KRuddy tried with the 4 deaths fiasco in insulation.

Coward with a capital C. Defending dismantlement with a political throw away line. Yet again they cannot administratively handle anything be it batts, asylum seekers or BER’s.

“That the media keeps referring to the same schools and the same problems suggests that they don’t have a wide range to chose from. “

Liar. Show proof.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/schools-watch

There is my rebuttable of your totally erroneous claim. Show me your justification for another pers and Labor lie.

persephone says:

02:07pm | 03/06/10

Mark

well, I suppose just accusing me of lying - without providing proof of this - is a step above just going ‘BWAHHAHAH’ but it’s still pretty cowardly and infantile of you, all the same.

Not all the BER money has gone out, as Gillard indicated last night.

Not all the BER projects will have commenced by the time of the next election.

There is BER money included in the government’s budget, so the Opposition could have, in their budget reply, indicated how they would save money from these projects (which is a perfectly legitimate use of a budget reply, regardless of how solidly money is being committed - the idea of the budget reply is to show how, if they were in power, the Opposition would do things differently).

So, if there were even potential savings from BER projects, the Opposition has had the opportunity to identify these. They haven’t done so.

You admit this yourself, by talking about changes to the management of these projects. If the Opposition can promise that these are going to happen, then obviously changes can be made to funding as well.

Again, despite flagging changes to the management structure of these projects, the Oppostion has been unable to demonstrate that these will save money.

Instead, what they are proposing is ridiculous - a freeze on all projects which are at the planning stage, with schools being forced to consult with their communities about the suitability of the project on offer.

This is ludicrous.

Firstly, a school which is perfectly happy with the project proposed, who may already has consulted widely with its community, will be forced to go through the process whether they want to or not.

Secondly, many schools have built their first project and are on to their second (or third). These have been designed as integrated units. Changing the proposed project could well mean that the completed project is now inappropriate.

Thirdly, many schools with plans still on the drawing board have demolished or removed buildings to make room for the planned new ones. Freezing the project means a longer time without these vanished resources, and longer time ‘making do’ with inadequate facilities.

Fourthly, the process will inevitably lead to greater costs. There’s the cost of consultations, the cost of delay (inflation isn’t going to stand still whilst schools go off consulting) and, if the community feedback is for a different facility, the costs of planning an entirely new structure.

I repeat: the number of projects identified as potential problems is exceedingly low. This suggests that not only have the taxpayer got value for money but that the oversight of this program has been rigorous in the extreme.

Of course, in an ideal world, not one project would have problems. Unfortunately for us all, we don’t live in one of those.

Rob says:

03:55pm | 03/06/10

Problem is Kerry has no idea how to interview a woman and ask the tough questions.  It’s easy to have ago at Rudd or Abbott and come off looking strong, last night he didn’t give Julia anywhere near as much stick as he gave the blokes.

Plus Julia is an ambulance chasing lawyer, she’s an expert at the kind of rubbish we saw last night.

Julia Gillard, Billion Dollar Bingler, PM.

Oh dear…

When will the ABC represent an open view says:

08:32am | 03/06/10

Add the fact that the Labor have a policy in place that members from the far left agree not to run for PM an agreement entered into before Gillard was given the nod as Deputy,she has been token at best and her achievements number the same as Rudds 0

Red says:

08:57am | 03/06/10

5-7 billion, school halls, blah blah. Get up from your computer and go and have a look at your local schools. All I see around here is sorely needed classrooms going up with lots of people emoloyed building them. it’s called a stimulus and it stimulates a flagging economy.

Steve says:

02:38pm | 03/06/10

@Red

I see an unnecessary and unwanted school hall being build at my kids school at about twice the appropriate cost to provide stimulus that was not even necessary.

persephone says:

03:23pm | 03/06/10

And I see halls and gyms and canteens and libraries going up locally which are sorely needed.

Difference is, I actually talk to the schools and know how pleased they are.

In one case I know of, the school has been trying to get a hall built for over 40 years. Now it not only has a hall, but the whole school is being rebuilt.

They’re over the moon.

Red says:

03:25pm | 03/06/10

@Steve
Don’t believe me read the McQuarie Bank report today. The BER prevented recession and continues to do so. BTW go to a few more schools.

antiperspirant says:

07:40pm | 03/06/10

Which school pers so we can check your statement.

Name or keep the homilies to yourself. Self serving lies are pointless

persephone says:

07:25am | 04/06/10

Mark

asking for a higher level of accountability from me than other posters?

Why not ask the same questions of Red or Steve or Weeny?

And why not do your own research?

RB says:

07:40am | 04/06/10

Billion Dollar Bungler!

T.Chong says:

09:13am | 03/06/10

Bronnie in her Eels jumper, footy boots and Thatcher hair do !, now that is steamy. ! links in well with todays lead story .

watty says:

11:32am | 03/06/10

Hardly a compliment?  “You remind me of the great Paul” 

Mind you Paul did display his softer “feminine” side on many occasions that rivalled Julia’s.

RB says:

08:39am | 04/06/10

Plus he was a bit “red in the cheeks”

Aikon says:

11:28am | 03/06/10

Wayne, I’m with you on this. Well said and my sentiments exactly.  Ms Gillard is complicit in all of the blunders of this grossly incompetent Government.  It takes just a little more experience than being a union hack to run a successfull Government.  Why anyone, including the ALP’s own marketing branch (ABC), would support Gillard after her conga-line of failures is simply beyond my comprehension.  I just don’t get it!

Evan Findlay says:

06:11pm | 03/06/10

More conspiracy theories from the waffler. While were at it Wayne, Kerry might interview Malcolm and sound out his leadership aspirations. After all someone had to leak to Neil Mitchell about Tony’s $10,000 dollar proposal for stay at home mothers. Probably Malcolm! And Abbott just can’t cut through, 33% PPM. Time to find someone with a little more popularity. What about Bronnie? She the Liberal version of Julia, just eighty years older and sporting a Princess Margaret hairdo.

weeny says:

10:26am | 03/06/10

PERS,
Yes she did. 5-7 billion wasted.
Most of the state schools cost per square metre is 3-4 times that of a normal building.  Also the private schools got 3-4 more times building for their money.  The liberals are stating to let the headmasters of each school get quotes and costings and then they will get value for money.
She is going to waste even more of OUR money.  She is incompetent.  and should be sacked.  You wouldn’t put her in charge of your lunch money -  sorry I wouldn’t, you obviously would and go hungry.

antiperspirant says:

01:52pm | 03/06/10

“So either there is no wastage - and thus no savings - or the Liberals are admitting that they couldn’t manage the project any better than Labor. “

Erroneous argument and completely pointless.

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/catholic-school-undercuts-ber-costings/story-e6frg6nf-1225873752369

$1070 per square metre in a Catholic school self managed. $4425 next door managed by the Labor governments - read Gillards - managers. The ones the schools were bullied into using.

Indefensible.

Incomprehensible

Reprehensible.

Get with the argument pers. You are on a different planet and are in 7.30 lala land with this pointless “show me the savings” crap. Spend the money wisely. Don’t waste it.

Argue that. Oh what? You can’t?

There there…Jools will make it better for you.

“So either there is no wastage - and thus no savings - or the Liberals are admitting that they couldn’t manage the project any better than Labor. “

At least we have put that red herring to bed forever.

Stop repeating dogma and clever political manipulations.

The one thing I can say with absolute certainty is that we would have got more value for our money if this program was run by the coalition. The proof in the ineptitude of Labors mismanagement is “front and centre” for all working families to see (snicker working families, I finally used it hahahaha).

persephone says:

02:17pm | 03/06/10

weeny

I asked you for evidence, not to just repeat your rant.

Evidence means: how much money has been spent so far, how much of this has been ‘wasted’.

If you can’t provide figures to support your statements, I’m within my rights to assume they don’t exist.

Christian Real says:

02:31pm | 03/06/10

Weeny
Why do liberals believe that they are so damn perfect and right all the time, when they aren’t?
In the Daily Telegraph today: “BER bungle saved Australian economy.”
“It has been condemned as a failure but the Rudd Government’s Building the Education revolution may have saved the Australian economy from posting a negative quarter of growth.”
“Official figures released yesterday showed the Australian economy grew by a mere 0.5 per cent in the first three months of 2010, helped substantially by an 11.6 per cent increase in Federal Government investment.”
Weeeny, On the issue of schools and Headmasters:
“Primary Schools give govt program a tick.”
“Ninety per cent of Primary School pincipals are happy with the handouts they’ve received through the federal government’s school building programe,a survey has found.”
“the online survey,commissioned by the Australian Primary Principals Association,received a whooping 2,438 replies in just five days - the association’s biggest ever response.”
“Some 89.9 per cent said they had received projects they wanted, but the remaining 10.1 per cent, or 243 principals, complained about budget blowouts and poor communication.”
It would appear that the only one that should be sacked is Tony Abbott ,for being ‘loose with the truth’.
Whether Abbott has his speeches or policies written or unwritten, the doubt would always remain whether he was actually telling the truth for a change.

persephone says:

03:38pm | 03/06/10

No, it isn’t a erroneous argument, Mark, just one you don’t have an answer for. There’s a difference.

If the alternative government is unable to find any savings in a proposed project, then that strongly suggests there aren’t any.

antiperspirant says:

01:11pm | 04/06/10

I also don’t have an answer for life the universe and ev erything because contrary to popular fiction it is not 42,

Still hold out that notion that we are looking for savings. Your comprehension is simple.

I will try again. Big Jools paid $130 for a bit of building worth $100.

She will do this till she spends $16 billion. We say that is bad. We say spend $100 and $100 in value.

That is all.

I can do a pictogram if it helps.

Again the quantum of cash is not the issue (although “stimulating” into a healthy economy with rising inflation and interest rates is dumb) it is about getting value for money.

It is not that hard. We are not asking for “savings” as you valiently try to deflect the argument towards. Sneaky sneaky.

We are saying pay $100 for $100 worth of goods and services. The self managed privates do it. The government managed by proxies don’t.

Hence fail to big Jools.

Waste

Rort

You get the picture now? Or you going to spin and lie another red herring?

persephone says:

01:42pm | 04/06/10

Mark

who is this ‘we’ you talk of?

Thought you were apolitical.

If a building built by Labor costs X + 1 and under the Liberals it will cost X, then there is a saving.

If it costs X+1 regardless of who is in government, there isn’t.

So if there is wastage in the program (X+1) where there shouldn’t be (because the program should cost X) then there should be ways to make savings.

If savings can’t be identified, then it costs what it costs and there is no wastage.

rite on dude says:

09:41am | 03/06/10

You would be just Julias type,a mushroom

Peter Griffin says:

09:43am | 03/06/10

Dude, comments like yours are exactly what is wrong with politics these days.

I have my personal political views and accept that others have views that differ, but increasingly these days there are people who are willing to degrade themselves by claiming that those who don’t agree with their particular political views are not just of different ideologies or beliefs but are in fact evil, unintelligent or retarded.

Dude, you should be ashamed of yourself. You make yourself and those whose political opinions you share look like intolerant bullies.

I know you will justify yourself by saying that “the other side do it too” but that really is no excuse.

watty says:

11:46am | 03/06/10

Hey Dude!
Did you think up this witty response by yourself or did you nanny help you?
Hawke,Keating, Button,Richo etc etc were all “Rightards” who wouldn’t give the time of day to Leftards like Jools.

Get to know a little bit about the Party you obviously support before bagging others.

Hamish says:

02:47pm | 03/06/10

Dude,

The greatest female politician of all time, Margaret Thatcher, was right wing. Perhaps you care to name a left-wing female polician who’s had half the success? The sad fact is the left like to have a few chicks on the team ‘cos it’s good for PR. They just don’t get taken seriously. After all, the left have always been the better hypocrites.

T.Chong says:

09:23am | 03/06/10

Fran, you seriosly saying Gillard is unelectable because of where shes born.?
I suggest most people ,Labor or Liberal would not know, or care.
Clutching at straws there fran.
I know, how about we demand to see her birth certificate?
Could be a touch of Obamas about her, dontcha reckon?
BTW, just remind me where that great conservative icon, Sir Joh Bejelky- Peterson was from ? born in Kingaroy? or some where overseas?
  I’m sure you’ll remember.

persephone says:

12:23pm | 03/06/10

Which rules Abbott out, too.

Fran says:

12:34pm | 03/06/10

T. Chong . tounge firmly planted in cheek.
Im sure it doesnt matter where she was from. Im such she would make a great Prime Minister.

Christian Real says:

02:45pm | 03/06/10

Fran,
You say; ” That aside Im not sure if Australians are really ready to vote for someone is is from the UK. We are trying to shake the commonwealth not embrace it .
“If that is your point of view, then that would rule Tony Abbott out as well, because he was born in London, England on November 4th, 1957.
Fran, and also you might like to note that Tony Abbott supports Australia being part of the Commonwealth.

JR says:

03:05pm | 03/06/10

Abott was born in London to Australian parents and migrated who returned when he was three.

antiperspirant says:

05:54pm | 03/06/10

Gratz CR.

You actually wrote something understandable and on topic.

Well done son.

Kay says:

11:54am | 03/06/10

Well said Will.  It’s questionable why these media commentators’ and journalists’ continue to have jobs when their political bent is so obviously subjective.

Dan says:

10:22am | 03/06/10

As deputy leader, she coud have been treasurer. The fact that she is not is almost certainly due to political reasons; that is, irrespective of her competence, her being a member of the left faction is (rightly or wrongly) not a great look.

Plus, shortly after the election, IR was a massively important portfolio, what with scaling back work choices.

AdamC says:

01:55pm | 03/06/10

Because she’s in the Left faction she can’t be treasurer? That is nonsensical on two levels. One, Lindsay Tanner, another Left faction grandee, is finance minister (and, indeed, the one they get when they need someone with credibility on economic policy); two, these factions aren’t really based on ideology, but on factional personalities.

I suspect it has more to do with a concern that she can’t handle the tougher portfolios, where she will be more likely to be scrutinised and challenged. Life’s easy when you are swanning around primary schools cutting ribbons and turning sods.

Hamish says:

02:29pm | 03/06/10

Interesting point AdamC. The Labor Party have a history of token female deputy leaders, Jenny Macklin (who?) most notably. Swan and Tanner are clearly the true deputies to Rudd. I imagine it’s factional dealings which prevented Tanner from being Treasurer as he is the only Labor stooge who looks like he has any idea about economics. That and KRudd might have considered him a threat. Swan’s only a threat to the economy, not Rudd. I feel a bit sorry for Swanny. He constantly looks out of his depth.

I have a feeling Jools is considered a lightweight internally. I can’t even remember who Education Minister was under Howard. Was it Hockey for a while? It’s not a huge federal portfolio. It’s much bigger in state politics and it’s still always filled by morons like Bronwyn Pike. Although it’s probably fair to say the far-left factions covet the Education (read brainwashing) portfolio.

Andrew says:

03:14pm | 03/06/10

Because she’s not so good with cash.

persephone says:

03:26pm | 03/06/10

Hamish

you can’t get more ‘token’ than Julie Bishop.

AdamC says:

03:50pm | 03/06/10

Pers, I don’t think us Tories dispute that Julie B has been promoted to the, err, extent of her capacity. Anyway, at least she gets on TV talking about foreign affairs, Steven Smith is like the invisible man!

Hamish, I am not sure that Gillard is considered a lightweight, as such. Let’s face it, next to Nicola Roxon, Gillard’s like a semi trailer carrying an elephant. It is more likely that she just isn’t considered as hot by her peers as she is by her worshipful handmaidens in the gallery. Remember how Julie B got dumped from the shadow treasurer role because she pretty much fudged it? Remember how there was a lot of mean talk about tokenistic Tories and the fact that the deputy leader should be (shadow) treasurer. They didn’t even give Julie G a chance to fail!

Hamish says:

05:02pm | 03/06/10

To be fair AdamC, I think they’ve still given Jools plenty of opportunity to fail…just not in the treasury portfolio.

Pers, sure Julie B was out of her depth in treasury, but she’s been okay in Foreign Affairs. The passport thing was a complete beat-up - she didn’t even say what she was accused of saying. Plus, our prime hypocrit is on the record as talking to the media about what was said in private diplomatic meetings while he was shadow foreign minister. I’m not sure he got many invites to be involved after that.

And to be fair on Julie, right wing women cop it far harder in the media. Look at Britain’s greatest post-war PM.

Dan says:

05:41pm | 03/06/10

Hamish, how on earth did Bishop not say what she was accused of, and then take it back? She is an absolute hack and if she were to become foriegn minister, god help us all. Furthermore, I hope you don’t regard Thatcher to be Britain’s greatest post-war PM?!

Adam C, I’m not saying that because she’s in the left faction, she can’t be treasurer. I’m saying that politically it would be not be popular.

persephone says:

12:33pm | 03/06/10

Nonsense, Andrew.

Looking at Newpoll over the years:

Rudd’s satisfaction ratings (36) are above those recorded by Hawke in 1989 (34), Howard in 98 (28), Howard in 2001 (28), PJK 1992 (24).

His net satisfaction ratings (satisfaction - dissatisfaction) are even better.

In all of those cases, the PM went on to win the election.

His ‘better PM’ gap with Abbott is 10% points above those recorded by the PMs in the years cited above, and his ‘better PM’ rating is well above those.

The 2PP for Labor is 2% higher at this stage in the cycle than any of those governments cited above.

So Rudd is actually performing very well for a PM going into an election.

(Acknowledgments to Aristotle, over at Pollbludger).

Andrew says:

02:42pm | 03/06/10

I thought you didn’t care about polls?

Anyway, those stats mean nothing when:
1. Credibility is gone.
2. Media sense blood in the water and want another candidate (just ask Bill Hayden).
3. The Labor backroom boys start to get worried, and that has already happened.

It is so funny when everyone starts to turn on a Labor leader, it starts small and by the time its recognised the snowball has become an avalanche.

Rudd has had his day, we all know it, it will only be a couple of weeks before you turn on him like you all turned on Latham (and will probably turn on Costa and Iemma for telling the truth about your appalling brand destroying liar of a leader). Labor have a fairly long history of pragmatically jettisoning leaders. Bye Bye Kev;

Jools - 3-1
Combet 4-1 (1-3 on if he can come out looking good in the insulation debacle)
Swan 7-1
Roughy 15-1
Rudd 100-1 (UN role?)

JR says:

03:10pm | 03/06/10

Persphone you may be right, but where all those figures within (at the most) 5 months from an election? Were all of those figures at over 55% satisfaction 4 months prior?

Momentum is a big thing going into an election.

persephone says:

03:44pm | 03/06/10

Andrew

so you’ve got no other argument? Fair enough.

JR

These are only one sets of figures - there has been analysis recently showing that Abbott is in the worst position for an Opposition leader at this stage of the cycle ever.

These aren’t mine, as I made clear. I believe that the past figures quoted are the lowest for each of those PMs and their governments in the lead up to the election.

As Rudd’s figures are steadying - and show signs of improvement - I’m assuming he’s slumped as much as he’s going to.

Even if this isn’t true, this shows he’s got a lot of leeway before anyone should start writing him off.

demeter says:

03:47pm | 03/06/10

Pers,

I would have to say you right people might have a little tipple on Abbott but will always come home to Rudd.  People vote for the PM not the party and Abbott will never breach the gap Rudd is far to popular, Gillard may well want to be PM but she will never move Rudd and she would rather be 2IC instead of being in opposition.

OJ says:

05:40pm | 04/06/10

yeah, we all pass our driving tests, indicating the required degree of competence,  then no one has any accidents…

sorry, couldnt help myself. 

there are plenty of reasonable arguments for which ever side you wish to support / point you wish make…. this isnt one of them though.

(although its still a long way from my all time fave post from pre Iraq War II - when someone posted “Tony Blair seems like a good guy and he’s all for it, so thats good enough for me”.)

Pretty much completley off topic but here is a politically inspired anecdote for you who like to ‘punch on’........ at a recent federal election I was surprised not to be approached by party workers and offered ‘how to vote cards’. Not that I wanted one, you know, preferring to think about the issues and make up my own mind and all… anyway, no one offered me anything. Pondered that on the way home. Concluded that it was on account of my wearing my fave baggy red shorts and chairman Mao t shirt (direct from my mate who is working in Shanghai) to the polling booth. Didnt do it on purpose (I swear) and also not a commie (not that there is anything wrong with that if it floats your boat). Have employed the same strategy at each subsequent election (state, federal and local), with the same results. Getting harder to execute the strategy though, as I’m getting older / fatter so the shirt doesnt fit so well these days.

PS - no, I didnt spell check and honestly dont care if I made a few errors

PPS - I’m a first time commenter. I generally just come here to waste a bit of time and get some chuckles reading through the comments section. Its really very entertaining many days. What a shame that we only have one vote each… the way some of you folk post, I can imagine you voting many many times per election given the chance.

Fuzzywuddle says:

03:03pm | 03/06/10

Stephen I must agree, Maxine is an excellent politician, the one who looked on the nose was Cory Bernaddi. That very hard line he has been peddling will carry right across the board if Abbott is elected. I certainly thought the young former Liberal made some sense to and he should start his own party. We need a softer more human approach to The Liberal Party

Andrew says:

03:19pm | 03/06/10

Maxine was terrible on Q & A, clearly out of her depth and embarassed about the $38m question.

mags says:

11:13pm | 03/06/10

I don’t know what version of Q&A you watched but Maxine McWho? was completely routed. The audience did not believe a word she said and the hero of the night was Claire Bowditch.

As for the interview last night I couldn’t stop laughing at how Kerry O’Brien was given the razzle dazzle by this consumate liar and incompetent. If she’s an example fo the best the Labor Party has to offer they should roll over and give up.

Persephone as usual you have provided the laugh of the day.  One day you will get your head out of wherever it is and get a look at the real world. You quoted the response to the questionnaire from school principals as being close to 3000 - about a third of the number sent out. Would be interesting to see what th respomse was from the other two thirds.

persephone says:

07:27am | 04/06/10

I haven’t quoted any questionaire, mags - what are you talking about?

acotrel says:

08:12am | 05/06/10

Surely the ‘lesson’ Gillard is learning from the BER, is that Australian small businesses lack COMPETENCE? It’s the same lesson Garrett learnt from the insulation programme! It’s time we required our managers to be TRAINED in managing?

Jane says:

04:05pm | 03/06/10

Rudd was always Gillard’s Trojan Horse…...The ALP’s ‘real leader of choice’.
The Labor apologetic media put Rudd there…and when it’s time…they’ll take him away…but only to be replaced by Gillard. The recent ‘support’ for Abbott was only to hasten Rudd’s demise.

The Australian public are being set up…and sold a pup…

Jane says:

11:02am | 04/06/10

Socialist Alliance member Gillard’s plan for power -

“Comrade Julia Gillard explains her plan to use Labor as a Trojan horse for the far Left’s agenda:

‘.....For the Left to make any real advance all these perspectives on the relationship to Labor in government need to be rejected in favour of a concept of strategic support for Labor governments. We need to recognise the only possibility for major social change is under a long period of Labor administration. Within that administration the Left needs to be willing to participate to shape political outcomes, recognising the need to except (sic) often unpalatable compromises in the short term to bolster the prospect of future advance. The task of pushing back the current political constraints by changing public opinion would need to be tackled by the Left through government, social movements and trade unions…...’

That comes from a document Gillard wrote for the communist-formed Socialist Forum group which she helped to run, despite now claiming she was just a part-time “typist”. (See the document below.)

It’s clear from Gillard’s writings that she sees the Socialist Forum not as a mere “debating society” (another false claim), but as an activist group that would infiltrate Labor to push its own socialist agenda. “

Be afraid of the Red Dalek…very afraid…....especially given the Watermelon Greens ambit to ‘deal’ with her (when Rudd goes)  through their balance of power and preference deals.

http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/gillards_plan_for_power/

persephone says:

11:36am | 05/06/10

Jane

er…I don’t think that quote says what you think it says.

All it is saying is that, to get into power, you need to make compromises, and that it is worth making those compromises to achieve the outcomes you really want to.

This is ‘Politics 101’ stuff, adhered to by almost every credible party since the dawn of time (that it isn’t accepted by the Greens is a sign of their political innocence), not a vast communist conspiracy.

Honestly, if that’s all you - or the Bolta - need to prove Julia is a communist, it will take me all of five minutes to find information on google to prove conclusively that Abbott is an agent for Opus Dei.

He isn’t, and Julia isn’t even vaguely communist.

Jane says:

04:00pm | 03/06/10

Holly,  the STATE schools were allowed to run down under the Howard years because they STATE governmemts who are responsible for them, for the administering of Commonwealth funds given to them…and for the more than estimated GST receipts they received -  neglected them.
Schools have fallen into disrepair BECAUSE the Labor State govt’s responsible allowed them to.
It’s why they are called STATE schools..or they were, until the tell-tale tag of responsibility name was dropped to confuse the direction of responsibility/accountability for them.
States are responsible for maintainance and administration of education funds….funds from both State and Federal levels.
The States took the federal education funding….and spent it elsewhere…...much like they are rorting the BER funding. Hopeless.

Dingo says:

03:56pm | 03/06/10

Totally agree cc.

She can sit there and make a credible defense of a completely disastrous program for which she is responsible. The evidence of rorting and waste (and dare I say fraud) is everywhere, but it was a convincing “performance” from Gillard.

Australia cannot afford any more of her ilk, who can talk the talk and nothing else.

persephone says:

06:31pm | 03/06/10

OK, Dingo, if it’s everywhere, name 10.

Just ten. Out of 24,000.

Go for it.

MenarefromMars says:

10:36am | 04/06/10

Persephone: Here are your ten examples and 1 more for good measure.

1) http://www.dailyadvertiser.com.au/news/local/news/general/brungle-schools-library-blowout-bungle/1849476.aspx
2) http://www.yasstribune.com.au/news/local/news/general/850000-for-11-x-7m-library/1848820.aspx
3) http://www.nambuccaguardian.com.au/news/local/news/general/government-challenged-on-building-costs/1847804.aspx
4) http://www.smh.com.au/national/toilet-block-costs-nearly-twice-a-home-20100602-wzuw.html
5) http://www.goulburnpost.com.au/news/local/news/general/its-a-hell-of-a-lot-of-sheep-poo-pc-hits-back-over-ber-funding/1847815.aspx
6) http://www.begadistrictnews.com.au/news/local/news/general/what-a-waste/1842743.aspx
7) http://www.goondiwindiargus.com.au/news/local/news/business/rudd-spends-650000-on-a-brick-cubbyhouse/1840963.aspx
8) http://www.berwickjournal.com.au/news/local/news/general/stop-this-crazy-waste-pleads-berwick-lodge-principal/1839240.aspx
9) http://www.dailyliberal.com.au/news/local/news/general/dubbo-businesses-owed-1-million/1823080.aspx
10) http://news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,,26876801-5001021,00.html
11) http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/schools-watch/ber-leaves-principal-fuming-over-handling-of-funds/story-fn56ulhe-1225867933601

antiperspirant says:

01:04pm | 04/06/10

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/schools-watch

Knock yourself out pers.

Want any more dear? Answer all these and we will get more

persephone says:

02:14pm | 04/06/10

I’ve flicked through these quickly.

None of these provide EVIDENCE of ‘rorting and waste’ let alone fraud.

In fact, in a couple of the cases referred to, it’s clearly outlined why the building cost more than the complainants thought it should (and none of the complaints seem to come from professional builders who know what they’re talking about).

They provide evidence of people complaining because they THINK that the buildings could have been done cheaper.

I’ve built three houses myself. None of them cost what I thought they were going to. When we went to get the loan for the third house, the bank manager (who specialised in owner building) said that no owner builder ever got it right - they always ended up going at least 30% over budget.

The point I’m making here is that, even after building two houses, we still didn’t get it right, even though we were relative experts by that stage.

So you can’t expect parents and teachers - very few of whom had any building experience - to be able to accurately assess the costs involved in a school building.

Yet that seems to be what’s happened in each of the cases you link to - people with no expertise guesstimating what it should have cost.

What I’ve asked for - and apparently you cannot provide - is a substantiated case of ‘wastage’ or ‘rorting’.

That is, either a building expert stating that the building was too costly or clear evidence of someone using money inappropriately.

If you read the above posts, you can see that that’s what I was asking Dingo for - not just a complaint, but a substantiated one.

(Oh, and btw - toilet blocks ARE very expensive to build).