Much like handing out condoms with the tip cut off won’t help fight STDs, the Rudd Government’s plan to filter the internet of Refused Classification material won’t make the internet safe for children.

It's hard to know what the ISP filter will do, except confuse this guy

Before the 2007 election Labor promised they would “ensure that children are protected from harmful and inappropriate online material” by introducing mandatory content filtering of all websites at the Internet Service Provider (ISP) level.

One might have thought that they were promising to make the internet safe for children.  It certainly sounded like it.  With the great firewall of Australia in place parents would be able leave their children in the capable hands of Uncle Kevin, net nanny extraordinaire.

Somehow, when promising to clean up the internet, they forgot to say what exactly it was they were going to protect kids from.  Cyber bullying?  Information about drugs, suicide or cults?  Pornography perhaps?  Surely kids shouldn’t be seeing any of these things online. Lucky for mum and dad Uncle Kev is on the case cleaning up the net.

Or is he?  Ever since Labor announced its policy I’ve been trying to find out exactly what would be blocked.  The story appears to have changed month by month – sometimes it’s all pornography, sometimes X rated material, sometimes inappropriate content.  But now it seems to be stuff that’s already illegal – content that has been Refused Classification.

So while mum and dad are busy cooking dinner and Uncle Kev is meant to be looking after the kids on the internet, they will still be able to access pornography, information about drugs and unsuspectingly chat away with goodness knows who in chat rooms – hardly being kept safe from inappropriate content!

Originally the government proposed a very broad filter that would provide a ‘clean feed’ to each and every internet user, whether you wanted it or not.  The notion of a ‘clean feed’ that protects children from “harmful and inappropriate online material” would have been a compulsory ISP level filter of such scale that China and Iran might have felt a little filter envy.

However, many experts believe a compulsory ISP level filter would result in the decimation of internet speeds and force serious restrictions on free speech.  The more you filter, the greater the impact on speeds.  And, the more you try to filter, the more likely you are to block access to material that law-abiding adults would legitimately want to access.

What do governments do when confronted by such obstacles to a key election promise?  They conduct studies and trials of course.  A few weeks ago they received their latest trial results from Enex Testlab.  That we still don’t know the results of these trials suggest they are caught somewhere between the proverbial rock and the hard place, both of which were of their own making. 

If widespread filtering of a ‘save the kiddies’ level is possible, he risks filtering online content to such a level it will create howls of outrage from those accidentally caught by wide-ranging filters or those who object to having to ‘opt-out’ of such filtering. 

If it’s not feasible to filter out all of the nasties , then he must confront the ‘why bother’ argument – why bother with the cost and hassle of filtering only the nastiest of all the nasty content if the internet still won’t be safe for children without extensive additional filtering or supervision?

Surely the government would be better off investing the tens of millions of dollars set to be blown on compulsorily filtering on developing the best possible in-home, school or library internet filters that would let parents control what level of filtering they deem appropriate for their children.  Such filters can genuinely protect children, without compromising the rest of the online world.

Of course they won’t do this, because backing down on the compulsory ISP filtering would be a loss of face and an admission that the previous government’s strategy of educating and empowering parents was a far more practical response to this issue.

So when compulsory filtering comes, beware, because lulling parents into a false sense of security about their child’s safety online could be just as dangerous, if not more so, than not filtering at all.  It will certainly fall a long way short of sitting down with children and teaching them yourselves what is and is not appropriate online.

80 comments

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    • iansand says:

      06:17am | 10/11/09

      This has nothing to do with making the Internet safe for children.  It has everything to do with conning people into believing that something is being done.

    • Joel B1 says:

      06:33am | 10/11/09

      I still have trouble believing the number of otherwise rational people who say “Little Johnny Howard’s responsible for this”. A few months back I was listening to a computer gaming program on my local community radio and the young lads presenting it were saying “this is another bad bit of legislation from the Coalition”!

      Rudd’s total teflon on this one. (again)

    • Wayne H says:

      06:36am | 10/11/09

      It wont be allowed to happen anyway… Too many people are willing to stand up and be counted on this. I am one of them and I wont tolerate internet censorship. It’s just more Rudd crap that makes me sick. I do support an in home version that can protect kids but it can’t be compulsory. Who does this man think he is. Leave my rights alone! Please please please all you sheep out there. Wake up and see for yourself what is going on. This is not communist China! Or is it….

    • Eric says:

      06:56am | 10/11/09

      It’s worse than that, iansand.

      This is all about introducing political censorship by stealth.

    • Bonhoeffer says:

      07:06am | 10/11/09

      There’s some competition for the top spot, but this filter nonsense could be the worst policy of the Rudd government.  The lie that it will “protect the children” is bad enough, because as stated it will give parents a false sense of security so they won’t keep an eye on what the kids are doing online.

      The secret political censorship that the filter will enable is even more worrying.  Spokespeople refer to stopping pedophiles, but the filter will have little effect on them because they can get round it, and pedophile activities have always rightly been illegal anyway.

      The secret use of the filter by the minister (or by a group appointed by the minister) is probably the biggest issue.  The minister says the filter can be used to block “inappropriate content”, so there is nothing to stop a future government from deciding that opposing points of view are inappropriate and secretly banning them.

      We’ll never know because it’s all a secret, with heavy penalties for anybody disclosing information about what is being censored.

    • John A Neve says:

      07:09am | 10/11/09

      I agree with Iansand, this has little to do with child protection. Rather, it has to do with censorship, this is the thin edge of the wedge.

      Once invoked, this gives a government the power to sanitise every thing on the net. Who was it said “ignorance is bliss”?

    • SM says:

      07:18am | 10/11/09

      An utterly ridiculous policy that, if persisted with,  will cost Labor an awful lot more votes than they think

    • Brando says:

      07:34am | 10/11/09

      Just ignoring the myriad of other serious issues about this proposed scheme for just a second I ask just who is it going to stop?

      It won’t stop an experienced computer user. I don’t know why I’d want to visit a site on the banned list but if I did I’d be around that filter in about 15 seconds. Ditto re any three strikes legislation regarding downloading. If a man in his 50’s can do that I’m sure most kids will be able to do it. If they can’t do it now I bet that they will learn quickly from their friends.

      The whole idea is a joke

    • watto says:

      07:42am | 10/11/09

      And Ruddy will there November 11, with his fellow Liberal hypocrites, hand on heart, remembering the soldiers that fought totalitarian regimes.

    • COF says:

      07:44am | 10/11/09

      That’s looking after the children for you - robbing them of their future rights for nothing but your own peace of mind.

    • Andrew Goff says:

      08:02am | 10/11/09

      Disgraceful legislation. Bad policy, bad populism, bad governance, bad human rights, bad logic, bad EVERYTHING.

      Don’t get all conspiracy theory on us though, this legislation is simply not competent. No political censorship; just pure flabbergastering incompetence. It terrifies me that one wacko nutjob in the Senate can hold a government to ransom over his personal wowserism.

      The next election may not be great for two-party democracy in Australia, but at least Victoria can regain its dignity by voting that aberration out of the senate.

    • Rina says:

      08:09am | 10/11/09

      It’s all about Rudd seeming to be caring and to look like he’s doing something responsible, nothing else. He thinks this will gain him some votes, but he’s wrong again! He thinks he’s so clever Mr Rudd, always thinking of himself and his polling. This guys a joke.

    • Zeta says:

      08:24am | 10/11/09

      This is the only issue the Coalition have any hope of gaining traction on at the moment. Senator Birmingham is preaching to the converted on the Punch, and needs to get out and spread the anti-censorship message more in the community at large.

    • Matto says:

      08:36am | 10/11/09

      The election promise was to provide an optional filter at an ISP level. Since the election it has been changed to mandatory. Obviously the kiddie protection argument is only part of the intention, as any future government can quietly censor any page they like with no oversight or transparency. Once in, no future government will get rid of it.

    • Dan says:

      09:06am | 10/11/09

      I hate this proposal, but this is not the only issue of censorship people need to start making a fuss about. For one thing, the fact that adult video games are banned and we have banned more films than almost any other Western democracy is appalling.

    • Mark says:

      09:10am | 10/11/09

      Thge goal behind this is to restrict information to the public, alternative news stories and opinions. The new world which is being pushed on us is one where we all get in debt, work to repay it and watch DWTS in the evenings and not cause problems.

    • NCG says:

      09:18am | 10/11/09

      Anyone with knowledge of IT and/or communications systems can find massive flaws throughout such a proposal. However the one being touted most strongly is the “it’ll slow internet speed” argument. There is no doubt about this, utilising our current infrastructure, but have you considered the implications of this system on a fibre network? NBN sound familiar?

      Rest assured this filter is just a virtual Gestapo being slid in under the radar. I think that if the Government wants to “protect” families from the evils of the internet, it should run its own ISP. This could potentially be subsidised, and content through its gateways filtered as seen fit, rather than imposing a mandatory filter on the entire population.

    • G says:

      09:34am | 10/11/09

      This censorship policy is ill conceived, damaging and dangerous and would put us on the proverbial slippery slope.

      To put in place a blacklist that can add any website based purely on one complaint, and blocks what is considered ‘unsuitable’ for us without our knowledge or consent and a blacklist which cannot be viewed and cannot be scrutinised. 

      What some adults consider suitable may be considered unsuitable by other adults.

      With the leak of what is to be considered the current Australian black list on http://www.wikileaks.com included a political site for anti-abortion, and others sites which were simply standard porn and I didn’t find offensive.

    • Nick says:

      09:55am | 10/11/09

      “at least Victoria can regain its dignity by voting that aberration out of the senate.”

      Are you talking about Fielding or Conroy? Can we get rid of both of them? Please!

    • machugh says:

      09:56am | 10/11/09

      So far Rudd has introduced draconian laws allowing the indefinite dentention of anyone suspected of carrying swine flu despite swine flue being largely innocuous; has introduced the censorship of parliamentarians contact with their constituents; has introduced the internet filter where the Government (read Rudd) decides what is appropriate content but has failed to do as he promised by reducing grocery prices, house prices, interest rates and fuel prices, has failed to deliver a computer to the desk of every student in years 9-12 and has failed to reform the health sector.
      Rudd is all about controlling our lives, not about improving the nation - he is a very dangerous man.

    • Ben says:

      10:17am | 10/11/09

      If it were about children, for starters this policy would not be so secret. The government would willingly spread the word as far and as wide as possible. Because they aren’t doing that, and refuse to discuss details unless forced to, such as through Senate Estimates, then much more sinister motives are at play. Rudd has the power over Conroy and hasn’t disciplined him at all, going to show that he is the person pushing for this farce the most.

    • Gerry says:

      10:28am | 10/11/09

      As JWH said the other day Rudd is all about symbolisim. not substance.

    • papachango says:

      10:35am | 10/11/09

      Sorry I must correct the author. At no stage did Labor state that that they were going to implement MANDATORY censorship before the election. They merely said that they would introduce ‘a filter’ to make the Internet safer for children, much like Howard’s proposed voluntary filter.

      The mandatory bit came after the election, therefore Labor have NO MANDATE to impose censorship.

      Other than that I agree with the author and most of the comments. This is probably the worst bit of legislation (out of a bad lot) that the Rudd Government is imposing, and it must be fought tooth and nail until it is defeated.

    • Bruce says:

      10:54am | 10/11/09

      If a site is breaking the law, no problem. Otherwise, the government proposed censureship of the internet is restricting freedom speech.

    • Brian says:

      11:03am | 10/11/09

      Talk about freedom of speech - have a look at Rudds Labor party, all towing the line like robots, every one of them agree with everything Rudd says. Not one single person in Labor disagree or a allowed to have their own opinion. At least with the Libs we get a fair share of opinions throughout the party. Labor use this as disunity in the Libs, but actually it is democracy. Labor are false, and are all too scared to say what they think. Just have a look at ETS and Climate Change issue. You can’t tell me that all of them agree with Rudd and his stance on this issue? They are a pack of useless followers.

    • Jason Bennett says:

      11:13am | 10/11/09

      This is clearly a policy meant to appease the ACL and various other religious nutjobs who seek to impose God’s will upon us. Hell, he is the keynote speaker for a CHRISTIAN LOBBY GROUP conference.

      You can bet your bottom dollar that as soon as the filter is in place, the ACL and other religious whackos will seek to add more and more ‘unacceptable to the church’ content to the blacklist. They already have said they’ll block perfectly legal content and have been caught blocking political content by way of the filter being leaked.

      With the proposed secrecy, how many more sites will be added that can’t be checked?

      Shame on you, Chairman Rudd.

    • Jane says:

      11:18am | 10/11/09

      Your right Brian, I agree totally. The Liberals should use the fact that some with in the party have different views and are allowed to air their thoughts to their advantage. No one respects a party that blindly just play follow the Leader, In the Labor party they seem to accept it’s Rudds way or the highway, a very sad way to dominate your party Mr Rudd. Is he a control freak? YES. Does this show Labor are a strong unified party? NO. They are under orders and happy to play the game for Rudd. Drones.

    • papachango says:

      11:23am | 10/11/09

      @Jaqson Bennett - you might be right, but I thought it was the Coalition who were supposed to be in bed with the religious loonies

    • Harold says:

      11:24am | 10/11/09

      Just to clarify: Refused Classification material is NOT illegal.

      It is not permitted to sell, or to display publicly, but outside of Western Australia, there are no restrictions on possessing Refused Classification material, nor on viewing it in the privacy of one’s own home.

    • phil says:

      11:42am | 10/11/09

      I disagree with your take on this issue Simon.
      We need to create strong controls on this untamed beast called the internet - never in world history have people been so bombarded with dangerous knowledge, it is a threat to the stability of our society as we know it, not just for our children’s innocence.
      We need to create strong tracing mechanisms so that we can monitor people who may have the potential to commit offences on the internet, such as flagging sites that give a how to guide to making bombs, child pornography websites, and file sharing websites. That way we can catch these lowlifes before they act rather than when the damage is done.
      I have nothing to fear from increasing the security of our citizens, I have done nothing wrong.

    • Grumbles says:

      04:57pm | 20/01/10

      filesharing = lowlifes? Since when has it been wrong to share? only a few filesharing websites have illeagle material, most are legal. It is this exact problem (painting everyone with the same brush) that will be the downfall of filtering.

    • John A Neve says:

      11:44am | 10/11/09

      Brian @ 12:03pm

      Disunity and Democracy aren’t one and the same thing. Democracy is where you all voice your opinion, vote and the the decision is supported by all. 

      Based on your view Brian, Labor is democratic and the Coalition lacks unity.

    • papachango says:

      11:45am | 10/11/09

      @ Brian, Jane - It makes some sense that Labor are more united (at least superficially) than the Liberals. Though they sometimes overlap, Labor are to the left and more collectivist, Liberal are to the right and more individualist. Therefore deviation from the leader is much less tolerated by Laborites.

      To illustrate this, I had an interesting discussion with a very left-wing, staunch labor supporter colleague when Malcolm Turnbull took over Coalition leadership. I suggest that he should like Turnbull, being kind of a soft lefty, a greenie and a republican. He responded that he used to like Turnbull, until one day when he directly contradicted Brendan Nelson who was Liberal leader at the time. To a lefty, not following your Dear Leader doesn’t make up for having policy positions that the lefty agrees with. Interesting.

      When Labor do fall out with each other (e.g. state govt factions) it is generally more spectacular than the Lib’s internal disagreements, though clearly ongoing leadership tensions are not good for any party.

      What’s harder to understand is the Greens, who have ‘grassroots democracy’ as one of their pillars, but are way further along the leftist/collectivist spectrum. How would they handle a rabid individualist who joined their party ranks? In practice their views seem pretty uniform to me, and I think they get around this by making new recruits swear to uphold their other core principle of socialism social justice

    • Frederik says:

      11:47am | 10/11/09

      Interesting Simon, you quote the “experts” speaking about “decimation” of internet speeds, (which the Poms, Swedes, Finns, Indians etc strangely enough do not seem to be experiencing with their telco-wide and/or national filtering schemes…), yet you ignore the other experts who contend it can be done with no crippling, decimating or even noticeable speed issues? Tad one sided old chap, don’t you think? Care to address this lack of qualification on your behalf? Has is occurred to you to actually ask the engineers running these filtering systems in those countries, or have you simply quoted some local “experts” who have never, ever setup or run such a system before?? I would not like to think that your article on this subject is just more political fluff Simon, that would be sad…

    • papachango says:

      11:59am | 10/11/09

      @phil - “I have nothing to fear from increasing the security of our citizens, I have done nothing wrong. “

      Spoken like a true totalitarian - Orwell couldn’t have put it better. The trouble is the government will eventually change the rules so that you are in the wrong. And you are supporting a totally unchecked mechanism to give them the power to do that. The ‘dangerous knowledge’ you speak of is only really dangerous to government control.

    • Harold says:

      12:00pm | 10/11/09

      @Phil
      I know you’re only trolling, but knowledge is not a crime.

      I know how to make several different kinds of explosives, thanks to my highschool chemistry classes. This is not a crime. Going out and blowing up a building is a crime (not to mention morally abhorrent), and one for which a person can be tried and prosecuted.

      The myth of “child pornography websites” has been debunked too many times - please give it a rest. And I won’t even dignify your conflation of filesharing websites with child pornography and terrorism with a rebuttal.

      The freedom offered by the Internet is the very reason it must be protected from those who would control it, constrain it, or curtail it.

      If parents are afraid of what their children “might” be exposed to online, they should supervise them properly, and if so desired, install a software filter, or sign up to an existing filtered ISP. While I hold no love for the Coalition, their NetAlert scheme (which the Labor party axed at the end of last year) was the correct and sensible way to handle this perceived “problem.”

      Rudd’s Rabbit-Proof Firewall is like trying to protect our beaches from sharks by building a ten-foot-thick concrete wall around our entire coastline…except only making it a hundred metres long: a “solution” that would be just as doomed to failure even if it wasn’t abject lunacy to begin with.

    • N says:

      12:02pm | 10/11/09

      Phil: “…such as flagging sites that give a how to guide to making bombs, child pornography websites, and file sharing websites.”
      Pick up a chemistry text book and you have plenty of knowledge for building bombs, hell our Yr 12 chemistry teacher explained the requirements of a basic nuclear weapon.
      I hate the rock spiders that perpetrate the child porn industry, but do you really think they move this crap around via web sites?
      File sharing websites? Sure plenty of piracy goes on at that level, but it is also leveraged by legitimate companies for free and trial software, banning them kills off an integral part of that industry.
      At the end of the day, we are way past the days of old when knowledge was restricted to the few. For the government to have an fundamental say in what we should know, is a step back into the dark ages.

    • Matthew says:

      12:09pm | 10/11/09

      phil says: “We need to create strong tracing mechanisms so that we can monitor people who may have the potential to commit offences on the internet, such as flagging sites that give a how to guide to making bombs, child pornography websites, and file sharing websites. That way we can catch these lowlifes before they act rather than when the damage is done”.

      Uh Phil, do you think maybe we should leave the illegal websites up to the police to handle? Maybe they could remove them. It’d be much better than just covering up the problem. Oh wait, the police already shut down illegal websites across the world already. Problem solved then. Also the existence of child porn sites accessible to the public is a bit of furphy. This stuff is traded by P2P and other encrypted non web means. When people bring up this stuff, it reminds me of how in the past people claimed there was a underground Snuff film market or the non-existent baby sacrificing satanic cults of the 1980’s. It’s complete bunkum and scare tactics.

    • Jason Bennett says:

      12:17pm | 10/11/09

      Frederik, the only people claiming the filter works are people who stand to benefit from it’s implementation, ie. censor vendors, WebShield and the ACL. No technical expert worth a damn is stupid enough to claim it works because it doesn’t. These are people who say that any loss in speed is acceptable for the greater good of living under God’s will.

    • JDNSW says:

      12:40pm | 10/11/09

      Internet speed is not the main problem with this proposal. If a secret censorship system is introduced, history tells us that it will inevitably be used to censor a lot that is not included in the original specification - even the present blacklist system, thanks to Wikileaks, we now know contains a lot of material that should not be on it. Every other country which has internet censorship and where the list has leaked has proved to have political material included. What makes anyone think this secret censorship system proposed for Australia will be any different?

      And why does it have to be secret? Simply, because IT WILL NOT WORK! If the list were not secret it becomes a guide to the “worst of the worst” (or the government’s misfeasance), because any possible system is trivial to bypass, thanks in part to facilities provided for the benefit of oppressed peoples by the US government.  Do you really want Australians to be in this position?

      As far as making the internet “safe”, consider these numbers - Conroy proposes a blacklist of “up to 10,000 pages”. A year ago, Google had indexed a trillion pages. These numbers tell me that either the “unwanted” content is close enough to 0% or the effectiveness of the filter is close enough to zero. Either way, the filter will not do what it is sold to do, and the only possible real use for it will be to hide a small number of web pages from naive users - anyone want to lay bets as to what will be blocked?

    • Meh says:

      12:41pm | 10/11/09

      As people have already stated, RC isn’t just illegal material.  In fact on the internet it includes any content rated MA15+ and above which isn’t protected by an age verification system (so practically all of it).  And again, the policy announced before the 2007 election was to make it mandatory for ISPs to offer a filtered connection, with an opt out for those who didn’t want to have their net censored.

    • Craig says:

      12:47pm | 10/11/09

      How unaustralian kevin rudd! Lets have 2 baskets. Basket 1 aka rudd achievements and promises kept = very few things in it. Basket 2: Bad policies, policies that yet to produce results and application of china policies to australia = Full to the top and overflowing! Wake up Australia!

    • Bookbuster says:

      01:16pm | 10/11/09

      It is very important to note that the Refused Classification category of content includes a great deal of material that is legal to own (provided you do not live in WA or the NT), and includes material like computer games that would require a rating greater than MA15+.. 

      It’s even more important to note that, while the government says in interviews that their intent is to filter RC content exclusively (never mind they will filter legal content in the procress), their official literature on the subject refers to *prohibited* content, which is a broader category of content.  Indeed, the complaints-based ACMA blacklist which will be used as the basis of the filter is a list of prohibited, not just RC, content, and the nature of this list likely cannot be changed without legislative action.  Prohibited content includes RC and X 18+ material; content classified R 18+ that is not subject to an ACMA-approved restricted access system and MA 15+ sold for profit that is not subject to said system.

    • Informed says:

      02:09pm | 10/11/09

      “Surely the government would be better off investing the tens of millions of dollars set to be blown on compulsorily filtering on developing the best possible in-home, school or library internet filters that would let parents control what level of filtering they deem appropriate for their children.  Such filters can genuinely protect children, without compromising the rest of the online world.”

      1) The previous Government introduced end-user filtering software available for all Australians. Nobody used it.
      2) Schools already have filters in place - they’ve been widely available, completely free of charge, for years.

    • Donovan Baarda says:

      03:37pm | 10/11/09

      Why don’t they protect the children the same way they are protecting the little children on Aboriginal communities; send in the army, replace all the locally elected councils with shires, quarantine half of all welfare payments, and teach kids only in a language they don’t understand… That way we can save kids from all the corruption flooding in because of incompetent councils, prevent people from spending all their welfare on internet porn, and make sure our kids learn to speak the dominant world language; Chinese!

    • Vera says:

      03:55pm | 10/11/09

      Why do we allow rudd to bring us down?

    • klaw81 says:

      04:00pm | 10/11/09

      @phil: Your argument is heavily flawed.

      You say that we should “monitor people who may have the potential to commit offences on the internet” - not people who ARE breaking the law, but those who MIGHT. An interesting corruption of our legal system’s presumption of innocence, I must say.

      You claim you have “nothing to fear from increasing the security of our citizens, I have done nothing wrong,” but can you prove beyond all reasonable doubt that you will never have the potentional to do so?

      Laws for the “online world” must be the same as those for the offline world, because they are really one and the same world. We are permitted to own and view RC material in print media or on DVD - why should we be prohibited from doing the same with internet-sourced material?

      Furthermore, the material that you want to limit access to (file-sharing, instructions for making bombs) will not be filtered by Conroy’s proposed filter.

      I agree with the author: there is no demonstrated need for a mandatory ISP filter, much less a feasible way to implement it.

    • Kurt says:

      04:02pm | 10/11/09

      Pre 2007 election labour said they were going to introduce an OPTIONAL internet filter for Australia ISP’s. Take it back to putting in an OPTIONAL filter and not one person would have a problem with it. It was a dirty trick to try and push MANDATORY filter on us all after they won the election and then state that the MANDATORY filter is what we voted for. IT WASN’T!!!!

    • Steve says:

      04:07pm | 10/11/09

      If Kids are the primary concern and not censorship in general, the goverment could/should have spent al this money on developing it’s own netowrk that parents could connect to for safe sites. The responsibilty should be on parents to know what there kids are doing online.

    • Tom says:

      05:17pm | 10/11/09

      It wasn’t mandatory pre-2007 election. That’s history revisionism at work. It was going to be optional.

      Once Labor won power, all bets were off and it was compulsory censorship, communist style!

    • Simon Shaw says:

      05:44pm | 10/11/09

      Just to clarify, the internet, can for the most part be filtered with the latest filtering systems without slowing down sites.  (Except a few for a variety of reasons, one of these is Youtube).

      So the slow down the internet argument doesn’t hold I’m afraid.

      However this is just very poor policy and I agree with the article completely.

      If people want to protect their kids, then let the government spend the money on education, law enforcement and home filters than this truly abominable idea.  It’s the thin end of the wedge and so simple to bypass it ends up being a complete waste of money.

    • Harold says:

      06:16pm | 10/11/09

      Simon Shaw points out that “filtering” YouTube does cause problems.

      One particular censorware vendor, Watchdog NZ, suggests whitelisting such sites to deal with that particular problem.

      But when the current ACMA blacklist already contains YouTube links (for containing Refused Classification material), does that not mean that such a product would be unsuitable for purpose?

      This whole thing is nothing but a farce.

    • Harold says:

      06:22pm | 10/11/09

      Oh, and to correct Simon Shaw’s comment:

      The WEB can be filtered*. The INTERNET cannot.

      You cannot filter SSH.
      You cannot filter SSL.
      You cannot realistically filter Peer-to-Peer protocols (even the ones that aren’t encrypted).

      There’s more to the Internet than just the World Wide Web.

      * To a point.

    • Jason says:

      06:25pm | 10/11/09

      Will it be illegal to bypass the filter?  Will it be illegal to supply software which bypasses the filter (to 18+ only of course).  Will it be illegal to bypass the filter so people can gain access to legit information themselves (again, adults only)?  Can I charge money for routing stupid people’s http traffic past the filter?  Nothing illegal here -  I just sense a lucrative business opportunity brewing.

    • Simon Shaw says:

      06:27pm | 10/11/09

      @Steve.  They have begun work on a network the government controls.  It’s called the NBN proposal.

    • Peter of Adelaide says:

      06:35pm | 10/11/09

      What is perhaps not well known is there is meant to be 2 filters - or at one stage there was 2 - The blacklist of illegal, and what could be called a greylist, the content of questionable but otherwise legal material.  The Blacklist is the Non-optional and the greylist was the opt out one.

      I also think that at home filtering is the way to go as it ios more effective, it doesn’t matter that the filters were available but not widely used, then to remind that they are available and to that end should be subsided or free as it used to be.

    • Old Bert says:

      07:22pm | 10/11/09

      49 so far,  comments on this subject;  just goes to show the depth of feeling. Speed reading isn’t a friend to me, but I should offer to say I’m comfortable with the huge majority of opinion, (on The Punch) of my fellow Australians on their opposition to content filtering, mostly saying it won’t work. Parents are the primary responsible point at which filtering begins; other filters are available; government is overreaching based on political, personal, moral and religious beliefs; and finally to “phil”,  your views belong in the McCarthyism era, along with the Noble Experiment in the prohibition era, both of which failed. I don’t believe you’re trolling, you really believe this. Mr Rudd seems to have a psyche character flaw, firstly by saying he was going to “mess his mind” when referring to Mr Howard during the last election, not something one would expect from an aspirational leader of this country. Mr Rudd’s second revealing character trait, was to place his stamp on his sole right to appoint his own cabinet ministers, regardless of Labor Caucus. The results are today obvious, and we have a triumverant, the nucleus of “fixed” view, with a supplicant ministry of front and backbenchers, who upon asked to answer press questions, have rehearsed their lines. (refer to Peter Sellers interview with “Lenny Goonigan”, aka Lonny Donegan, “we’re just cuttin’ out all the verses, an’ just makin’ one long chorus, man, I mean we’re just makin one long chorus , puttin on man, just makin one on long chorus, you see man, one long chorus”.)  I’m afraid Mr Rudd has not met the expectations of the electorate, this debacle being one of the most divisive of secondary policies, but given the heat of opinion, it could be a factor he is strategically, and tactically, blind to.

    • CW says:

      08:17pm | 10/11/09

      >> at least Victoria can regain its dignity by voting that aberration out of the senate.

      > Are you talking about Fielding or Conroy? Can we get rid of both of them? Please!

      Not until the parliament pass the an euthanasia bill! smile

      But that will not happen if Internet filtering goes ahead as any lobby site advocating euthanasia and informing people will be refused classification (RC) and blocked by the filter.

      I don’t think the control freak, RuddBot, knows what he is doing this is a very dangerous policy.

    • mick says:

      10:02pm | 10/11/09

      how can information be illegal? it can be offensive or it may incriminate people in illegal acts but the “information” in and of itself should not be made illegal. this is nothing but censorship. set the information free and let the people decide what they want to read, see, hear… the internet doesnt force this into peoples homes, it is a gateway, you have the key, you decide what doors you want to open (for yourself or your children).

    • Bill says:

      06:38am | 11/11/09

      This proposed filtering has nothing to do with keeping children safe and preventing the distribution of pornography!
      It has EVERYTHING to do with CONTROL of free speech!
      Chairman Rudd has already started his COMMUNIST censorship by restricting criticism of his corrupt, inept and leftist/marxist government.
      Have a look at this story:-
      http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/comments/0,23836,26327879-953,00.html

    • William says:

      06:57am | 11/11/09

      Rudd is a COMMUNIST!
      His true colour is RED!
      He has to go!
      Time for a revolution!

    • Greg says:

      07:31am | 11/11/09

      Kevin Rudd is a virus and needs to be eradicated completely.
      He is practically turning Australia into China.

      He is destroying Australia and thats scary and a shame. ;(

    • Millsy says:

      07:57am | 11/11/09

      Rudds spin has all but spun us all out. He scares me too!

    • Andrew Hazelton says:

      12:39pm | 11/11/09

      The internet has become a cesspool of child and adult porn. Kids and women are degraded, violence is glorified and no one is safe from having this rot thrust in their face, even by accident. I am glad the Government is moving to protect kids and women through mandatory filtering at Internet Service Provider (ISP) level.

      The Government plan is to introduce mandatory ISP level filtering for refused classification material contained in the ACMA blacklist. This includes child sexual abuse imagery, bestiality, sexual violence, detailed instruction in crime, violence or drug use and/or material that advocates the doing of a terrorist act.

      Claims that Australia will become like China and that the net will be censored for political and religious comment are ridiculous given our open media, freedom of speech and parliamentary democracy.

    • Harold says:

      01:46pm | 11/11/09

      Thank you for copy-and-pasting from the Australian Labor Party’s press-releases, Mr. Hazelton.

      I must wonder, though: if you’ve “accidentally” found child pornography on the Internet, why have you not alerted the police?

    • Bill says:

      01:52pm | 11/11/09

      Andrew Hazelton - Well don’t buy a bloody computer and go back to your cave, or your church mate!

    • Andrew Hazelton says:

      02:43pm | 11/11/09

      Yeah that’s right side track, and attack the man with your cheap punches and try to divert attention from the argument. But its water off a duck back to me.

      Simon Birmingham undermines his argument by suggesting this filter is an attempt on the government’s behalf to block information. Such claims are ludicrous as every other media type, be it: magazines, movies, TV shows or video games all have a classification code that prevents minors from accessing. Do you say that we should not have a classification system for these types of media and just leave it the parent’s discretion? The classification system already applies to the internet. The ISP just gives empowers an already existing classification system.

    • Pwnd says:

      02:47pm | 11/11/09

      Andrew Hazelton stay away from /b/ and you’ll be fine

    • Mark K says:

      04:12pm | 11/11/09

      Hazelton, your nothing but a scaremongerer mate. If I want to look at adult porn I will and you or the Government should have no say in that.  There was a child porn racket operating out of some pubs a few years ago, where you could organise a trip to Thailand and hook up with child prostitutes. Does that mean there shouldn’t be any pubs you or we should have listening devices under every bar and table to check on what people are talking about.

    • Matthew says:

      04:16pm | 11/11/09

      Andrew Hazelton, you are confunsing classifiaction with censorship. What this policy does is ban websites, not classify them. Parents will still have no idea if a website is G rated or MA15+. The website is either there to view or it isn’t. Seeing as Senator Conroy has stated that he only intends to block a maximum of 10,000 urls, and with over 1 trillion unique urls on the web as of early 2008 and climbing by the thousands every couple of hours or so, methinks you’re going to “accidently” seeing a lot of porn and glorified violence even with the filter in place. Amazing how I never see women and children being degraded on the web. For some reason it’s not “being thrust in my face”. I wonder why?

    • Andrew Hazelton says:

      04:54pm | 11/11/09

      It is of good social conduct to limit certain freedoms such as uncouth internet access so as to prevent social harm. Consider pool fences. It was not until it was legislated that all pools must be closed off with a fence of certain height that children were properly protected and the number of infants drowning decreased. The same should apply with the internet.

    • Harold says:

      09:40pm | 11/11/09

      Andrew Hazelton, your pool fence analogy suggests that you missed my shark analogy previously in this thread.

    • GW says:

      12:01am | 12/11/09

      @Andrew Hazelton. The blacklist was designed for use for children and dates back to 1999. It was never intended for adults. All pool fences allow adults to supervise access to the pool and use the pool themselves. They were never designed to prevent adults using the pool and no adult needs a permit to use the pool. I’m female and I’ve been on line since the 80s. Only rarely have I come across any sort of pornographic material and I simply move one. I’m an adult, I am capable of making that decision. You are asking that all adult access to the internet be controlled to the point where only material suitable for a 15 year old is available with a secret group of unaccountable public servants determining whether adults should have access to legal information. How insulting to law abiding adults. I can choose to install a local filter should it be needed and so could you. Have you done so or are you waiting for government to take some magic action to fix things for you. You have no particular right to believe that you know what is best for me or any other adult in the community.

    • Matthew says:

      05:37am | 12/11/09

      Andrew Hazelton I don’t think anyone has died due to unrestricted internet access over the last 15 years or so, but please prove me wrong. Please tell me what social harm due to the “uncouth internet access” (whatever that means) is being done now and also how blocking less than 0.0000001% of URLs on the web would actually help in any regard. I also have to question how limiting technology helps fix what are social problems.

    • Chris Hewitt says:

      07:40am | 12/11/09

      Pool Fences: But what if the legislation said that only 25% of the pool should be fenced which is what is being proposed here: Only fliter IPV4 HTTP traffic.. only filter 0.00001% of the objectionable material. Lots of expense and pain for no gain.

      Its a DUMB idead.

    • harry says:

      10:55am | 12/11/09

      Mandatory content filtering was not promised at the 2007 election. Optional content filtering was. The religious loonies are waging this battle. A battle every IT professional knows they will lose.

    • Peter says:

      04:00am | 17/11/09

      Valuable thoughts and advices. I read your topic with great interest.

    • Rob says:

      08:03am | 21/01/10

      The only filters that will protect children are the parents. The net has replaced the TV as a surrogate nanny ( “Go and watch the Telly and don’t bother me”). Now it’s go play on your computer.

      It’s interesting that Rudd is trying to censor the net and at the same time the weepy left are demanding that children have rights as in the right to privacy.

      How do you filter net content when little Johnny is locked up in his room with his own computer and parents are expected to respect his privacy in all matters? Disciplining kids has been watered down to the point where parents and teachers must despair of ever controlling them.

      Rudd’s filter will not change the status quo, but it will give him the means to ban any websites that are anti-Rudd or anti Global Warming, etc. Who knows, maybe The Punch will be first to go - He’d certainly go after Andrew Bolt.

    • LC says:

      09:53am | 09/09/10

      A+ article, but just one thing:
      “But now it seems to be stuff that’s >already illegal< – content that has been Refused Classification.”

      RC does not always = illegal. The only illegal RC is child porn and genuine rape footage (not sure about beastiality), both are illegal to own, distribute or even watch. All other RC (including BDSM or debate about euthinasia or abortion) are not illegal and in the case of the former, will not result in arrest provided there is mutual consent.

 

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