Bugger it, let’s talk about my bottom

mick says:

02:21pm | 01/12/11

After the women’s health issue. 

Blokes just grin and bear it without too much fuss whilst women are proactive, get heaps of $ spent on their health and don’t drop dead like men do. 

Ok guys, get off your bums and don’t let the ladies push you around.

Fiona says:

07:02am | 02/12/11

We will push you around, preferably to the doctor’s to get that health check done.

PsychoHyena says:

12:26pm | 01/12/11

I agree Abu, 1 whole month and nobody writes a single thing about men’s health, meanwhile they’re pumping out women’s health articles etc for the three days leading up to a day for women.

I understand Ant that you are probably the one who got landed with being the sacrificial lamb here.

GB says:

12:35pm | 01/12/11

Does it really matter? What Ant is promoting is a good thing so not sure why you feel the need to pick fly shit out of pepper. Who cares about the differences. I’m no medical expert but if you’re being tested for one wouldn’t the other show up as apart of that examination anyway. As you said the testing procedure is similar. I just don’t understand how encouraging men in the at-risk category to go and get themselves checked out can be “insulting”.

Chris_D says:

12:37pm | 01/12/11

Yep, ironic that the message for early screening and awareness comes the day after the month long campaign has ended. 

Also, it seems the Punch has been talking about a specific arsehole all month, yet something as relevant as this gets overlooked.

Good on ya Ant for getting around to it, now the Punch can get back to telling us what arseholes men are for domestic violence etc.

Abu The Goat Boy says:

12:52pm | 01/12/11

@GB. Bit of shock for you maybe, but no, you won’t find one when you’re looking for the other. Quite different techniques are required.

Erick says:

02:07pm | 01/12/11

It’s nice that The Punch finally managed to write a positive story on a men’s issue, even if only reluctantly, after much prodding, and too late for the actual event.

Now we only need another 499 articles on men’s issues to even the balance with the 500 or so women’s articles published during the two and a half years of the site’s run!

Vicki PS says:

03:33pm | 01/12/11

Erick, from your perspective if an article isn’t specifically about a men’s issue, it’s women’s article.  You’re bound to dip out, son, so why don’t you give the moaning away for a while?

Erick says:

04:15pm | 01/12/11

@Vicki PS - “Erick, from your perspective if an article isn’t specifically about a men’s issue, it’s women’s article.”

That’s simply a lie, and I suspect you know it.

john says:

05:52pm | 01/12/11

Bullshit eric
You turn every article into a rant about how women have done you harm or men are oppressed by women.
You border on misogyny with virtually every post you make
you are repetitive and boring
Wake up to yourself.

Erick says:

05:29am | 02/12/11

@john - “You turn every article into a rant about how women have done you harm”

Again, a lie. Just today I commented on the sale of uranium to India, without mentioning women at all. I doubt you can find even one link to an example of me saying “women have done me harm” - because they haven’t.

“or men are oppressed by women.”

Not true. I’ve consistently maintained that men are discriminated against by our society and its institutions, not by women in general.

It’s significant that my critics often resort to outright lies. It says something about the validity of their position.

KH says:

12:35pm | 01/12/11

Well, its like they say in that ad for cervical cancer - ‘there is embarassing, and then there is embarassing’.  Your doctor checking you out is one thing; a large group of medical students checking you out whilst you are in the midst of horrible treatment, not to mention the constant parade of nurses and doctors, is whole different level of embarassment. 

Take the less embarassing one…........make that appointment now, while you are thinking about it.

fairsfair says:

12:58pm | 01/12/11

Anubis, I wonder what it is that men so despise about having a finger up their bum? I don’t mean to sound crass in that question I genuinely wonder. Women have to have Pap Smear every two years. For those who don’t know, that involves laying on a bed with a doctors face between your legs, you must lay on your back with your ankles together and drop your knees to the side and then “relax”. That is then followed by the insertion of a speculum and then cells scraped from the surface of your cervix with a little brush that actually resembles a tiny bottle brush. It is very uncomfortable (sometimes painful), humiliating, embarassing, dreaded, all those things. I have a male doctor, but a female nurse is always present at the time. Just another person to join in with you during your moment of vulnerability. “what are you up to on the weekend etc”.... awks

Graphic description I know, but I would posit that the smear test is far more embarassing for the individual than a doctor who can “feel their way” with all except your bum crack exposed, no need for their face to get all up in your business. Women accept this as a part of life, and the majority do as per recommendations without missing a beat.

Now, I don’t intend my above remarks to be a gender thing - what I am simply trying to work out is why women resign themselves to the reality of the testing procedures, but a lot of men don’t?

Do you think that it is simply the fact that there is not enough communication on these issues in daily life? I believe that is the reason and that is clearly what Ant is getting at in his article. I remember, as a young kid, in the early 90s there was an ad on TV for Pap Smears. It was being advertised and people were talking about it then. I don’t personally recall anything similar being advertised on TV for men. In fact, the only male specific health issue I can recall seeing advertised on FTA TV is erectile disfunction. This is not presented in a manner that would suggest if you are experiencing issues there may be something sinister wrong and you should see your doctor - it is simply luring you to buy a nasal spray off some quack company so you can keep you partner happy.

I don’t find talking about Ant’s bum gross. We all have bum’s so I am not sure how a colonoscopy (which is not used for the diagnosis of prostate troubles in general) relates to men’s health issues specifically, when it is likely that most of us will be subject to the test at some time in our lives.  I agree, I think this is too little too late, but I hope it generates some sort of discussion on the matter.

Kudos to you for you support of Movember. I have made more than one donation throughout the month and will continue to support this worthy cause.

The righteous one says:

01:11pm | 01/12/11

the blood test is not an accurate indicator of prostate cancer.  Digital palpation of the prostate is a far more accurate indication although this throws to many false positives as well.  all of the above is why there is no screening program, because we dont have an accurate test for prostate cancer. Not because we are picked on Erick
Apart from that get yourself checked.

Mumto2 says:

01:12pm | 01/12/11

Women do not contribute in any way to prostate cancer so how could you draw a comparison between Movember and White Ribbon Day?  I have read many anti-white ribbon day comments from offended males, and I fail to see how someone can take offense to a cause that aims to stop violence against women… not to vilify men.  The white ribbon day, in my view, is akin to a day that I would love to see created…. a day to Stop Violence Against Children by Parents.  I am a parent.  I do not abuse my children, but I would not hesitate in signing a pledge whereby I promise to protect and care for my own child and do my utmost to report and/or prevent any cases of child abuse I saw happening at the hands of another parent.  I would not feel like the victim… quite the opposite.  I would feel empowered, and feel as though I was doing something to help those who cannot help themselves… and raising awareness within the community about a taboo topic.  Violence in general should not be accepted… violence against women should not be accepted and violence against children is just abhorrent and my heart breaks everytime I read of a child tortured or abused by their own parents.  Behind every “ribbon” day or cause is someone trying to do something better their community, so perhaps try to see the day for what it is and support the good the day might do, in spite of any short comings you may feel it has.

Anubis says:

01:24pm | 01/12/11

@ ff - I think the reluctance of men to undergo this procedure is because they don’t see it as manly. Something that is drummed in to us, generally by fathers, uncles, brothers etc from day dot. It really isn’t that bad as part of the overall picture and would much rather have that done on a regular basis than go through the exruciating pain of prostate cancer and the associated treatments. Guys, chemo and died a slow excrutiatingly painful death is far worse than having a doctor stick a finger up your bum on an occasional basis.

I have endured having a family member die as a result of prostate cancer and there is nothing at all dignified or “manly” about it. You reach a stage where the pain killers no longer work, the chemo that they keep pumping you with is totally irrelevant and just breathing is so damn hard you just don’t want to do it any more.

A lot of the hesitation and procrastination is due to a lack of education and also a resort to the old excuse that “it aint manly” to have a doctor do that to you. Frankly I think I would prefer a prostate examination to a pap smear any day.

Elphaba says:

01:28pm | 01/12/11

@Mumto2, someone else is going to wade in with this, but I wanted to be first.

Why not have a ‘No Violence Against Men Day’ as well?

That’s the crux of the argument.  What people like Anubis are looking for is equal weight, equal publicity given to causes for men.  It’s not that they don’t think White Ribbon Day is important, or that violence against women should be treated as less of a cause - they just want to see some balance in how the causes are represented.  I can’t see anything wrong with that.

The fact that Movember is gaining significant popularity as a cause, not just for the men who grow the mo but for people like me, who give a gold coin donation to every mo in the workplace, means that the Punch going the entire month without mentioning it - not even a humorous article - is extremely disappointing.  if men aren’t talking about it, we need to make them talk about it.  This is the perfect outlet for it.

Your mistake the message that Anubis/Erick etc al. are pushing.  It’s not that causes for women are not important.  It’s that the causes for men are equally important.

Mumto2 says:

01:55pm | 01/12/11

@Elphaba.  I hear you saying that some men want to have recognised the violence against men that also that exists in society.  Fine, but why would these men try to push their own cause by boycotting the White Ribbon Day cause.  Why not go ahead and create Stop Violence Against Men day - some men may be surprised to find that there would be an equal amount of support within the community for that cause.  That would be a far more positive thing to do, rather than creating an anti-white ribbon day movement.  My husband has has participated in Movember in past years and I contribute gold coin donations each year.  I support Movember.  My husband is also a regular donor for other general health mental health organisations such as Beyond Blue and the Black Dog Institute.  As far as male-specific support groups go… http://admss.com.au/ check out this website and just look at the groups that have been created and exist for men in a range of different needs.  There is support for men if they need it.  If some men in society want to create a cause to specifically Stop Violence Against Men, then I would support that too.

Anubis says:

01:57pm | 01/12/11

Thank you Elph, couldn’t have put it better. But I will add a little bit - White Ribbon Day has the potential to be hijacked, and there has already been some done. Averred misandrist like an occasional author on this very site with a double-barrelled surname, have used the cause to push their views that all men are bastards/wife beaters/pedophiles and general scum of the earth. Most men are decent respectable citizens who just want to get on with their lives without being forced to sign papers acknowledging that most, if not all, men are really bastards. I agree with the principles of White Ribbon Day but not the execution of it. Domestic violence can, and is, performed by members of the female gender too but that is usually pushed to the side with the question “What did he do to deserve that, he must have been a bastard’ You dont get the same question when it happens the other way. So yes, equity in consideration and treatment would be appreciated. (6)

Erick says:

02:02pm | 01/12/11

@Elphaba - Well said. But I’d like to add that the objection to White Ribbon Day is not because it concentrates on women as victims, but because it emphasises men as violent abusers. Without any balance, a one-sided campaign like this is simply an anti-male hate fest.

Rather than having separate campaigns for violence against each sex, why can’t we have a campaign to stop domestic violence against everyone? The persistent refusal of WRD and its supporters to even consider such an idea reveals their real agenda.

Leah says:

07:48pm | 01/12/11

Oh Anubis get over it.

As much as I think the little ‘oath’ for white ribbon week is a tad OTT, the fact remains that men (NOT all men) contribute significantly to domestic violence which is why they may feel a little maligned during white ribbon week (though no man I know was bothered by it). I am not aware of any women contributing to prostate cancer, but if you are, please enlighten me.

Elphaba says:

06:40am | 02/12/11

“Fine, but why would these men try to push their own cause by boycotting the White Ribbon Day cause.”

Because they’re frustrated.  I never said that it’s the correct course of action, but when they’re malinged by the more rabid of supporters, I can see why they do it.  I don’t think they should boycott it, but they’re trying to get their voice heard.  Sometimes it takes a shock tactic.

The feminist movement is certainly guilty of the same.  Look at the foul hate that M T-R spits.  She’s a militant harpie, but people sure do take notice when she speaks.

Anubis says:

12:38pm | 01/12/11

@ Dan - colonoscopy is not used that often for detecting prostate cancer. Common test now is a blood test and, if dicrepancy is found then the old “bend over and say ah” digital examination.

Observer says:

12:40pm | 01/12/11

Speaking of Kyle, when are we going to get a story on Kyle, it’s been too long since we last heard about him.

Abu The Goat Boy says:

12:49pm | 01/12/11

Colonoscopists? You may have been referring to colorectal surgeons but don’t ask one of them to check your prostate. Start with your GP he/she will do the deed. If you are consulting with a colorectal surgeon you have a whole world of other problems and we are not talking prostate here.

But I take your point “All Hail The Colorectal Surgeon” - even though they are physicians who have gone over to the dark side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuuTbmdozpU&feature=related

Dan Webster says:

03:47pm | 01/12/11

To the responses, thank you, I’ve learnt something.

I’ll be asking for the doctor with the smallest fingers.

dancan says:

10:36am | 02/12/11

Just as well Dan

“Well Mr Webster we’ve completed your colonoscopy you may feel mild discomfort for an hour or so.  Now we just need you to bend over again for you prostate exam”.

“What?! They’re not the same thing”?

“haha no.  Nurse where’s the ky”?

“fml”

John Smythe says:

05:41pm | 01/12/11

cracks me up each time I read it

marley says:

01:11pm | 01/12/11

I think this article sums it up rather well:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/story/2011/10/07/prostate-cancer-psa.html

Certainly, if there’s a history of prostate cancer in your family, it makes sense to test. though. 

As for bowel cancer, don’t we have screening kits (very non-invasive) for annual tests?  I think they cost about $40.

seniorcynic says:

01:15pm | 01/12/11

I have a PSA every 2 years and as the doctor knows my previous result he can act if an increased reading comes back. Personally I would rather know if something may be wrong than not know at all. I believe it is valuable to have a baseline PSA done so you have something to compare future results with.

Direct says:

01:28pm | 01/12/11

Current expert opinion is divided on whether male lives are worth saving.

Anubis says:

12:58pm | 01/12/11

LOL. But I doubt it. There are probably still a few Kyle/Jackie O articles, and a couple of White Ribbon Men are bastards stories they can run before something as “insignificant ” as World AIDS Day gets a run in the popular press in Australia.

The righteous one says:

01:12pm | 01/12/11

maybe it was an aidendum

Frank says:

02:10pm | 01/12/11

He is talking about putting something up your ass…as a gay man i am allowed to make such a remark..

marley says:

01:56pm | 01/12/11

@Cretin - I would have thought your GP would check your prostate as part of a routine physical examination.  It is, as Ant said, the proverbial finger up the bum, done in the doctor’s office.

The PSA test is a different thing, but unless there’s some family history, I wouldn’t have thought it would be necessary at your age.  And it’s not all that trustworthy anyway, from what I understand.  PSA testing apparently has very little impact on mortality rates from prostate cancer.  That’s a very different situation from mammograms.

So, if your doctor didn’t do a digital exam, get it done. Otherwise, don’t freak out about it.

Vicki PS says:

03:38pm | 01/12/11

Cretin, you are.

If a woman is “worried about breast cancer” in the absence of signs, symptoms or family history, she won’t be “whipped into the machine”.  Guidelines apply just as they do with males who are low risk for prostate cancer.  Free routine breast screening is available to women over 40.  Otherwise, it’s only when clinically indicated.

Perhaps you’d better find a real worry to be aggrieved about?

cretin says:

04:52pm | 01/12/11

@Marley who said “So, if your doctor didn’t do a digital exam, get it done. Otherwise, don’t freak out about it. “

Thats the issue man,.. the doctor refused.  I wanted it checked but was turned away.

marley says:

05:47pm | 01/12/11

@cretin - get another GP.

Fiona says:

07:18am | 02/12/11

Protstate checks are not routine for men under 45 (or thereabouts), you are at low risk for it. They also don’t do breast screens for women under 40 as they are at low risk. The government will fund for both genders after that age. If you have a family history of either cancer and are concerned (maybe sympomatic) then its different, but its not gender discrimination.

Daniel says:

11:40pm | 01/12/11

There is no “good” reason for our attitude regarding physical damage Kika. It’s something we are either taught or born with (I’ll let others argue which) to ignore as best as we can in the hope that it’ll pass, through out our lives we have mostly been taught by society that to show pain or fear is weak and unmanly (except for soccer players) so our tendancy is to either ignore it or downplay it.
There are two reasons (possibly more but two obvious ones)  1. A guy who is hurt and carrys on about is like a (dare I say it) women, will instantly lose the respect of any males who happens to see it and will be relegated to the status of “pussy” (and probably be treated that way) for the rest of his life by every other male and 2. If you husband cried at the drop of a hat, wasn’t willing to defend you (by voilence if need be) and acted as though he was afraid to every other he met. You probably wouldn’t have been attracted to him.
I’m not saying that this is right by any means and the fact that many of us will take the same attitude towards cancer as we would getting punched in the arm is, quite frankly, ridiculous…. But we are what we are.

Fiona says:

07:24am | 02/12/11

Maybe he was starting the seizure, or was a having a vaso vagul reaction. The swab would’ve been done as part of infection control to check for people carrying bugs. I had to do one last year while I was in hospital.

Kika says:

03:14pm | 01/12/11

Good idea - I think the ads during cricket and footy would really work. And use men other men look up to. The ads in the 90’s which used regular women from all walks of life talking about pap smears worked to demystify the whole thing and helped women feel like “Oh well it’s something we all have to do”.

Dan Webster says:

03:46pm | 01/12/11

What a crack up

Daniel says:

11:47pm | 01/12/11

If you two keep this up you’ll dig yourselves into a hole/find yourselves in a world of shit or even end up shit creek without a paddle.