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Brutal slaughter just ain’t Kosher

Peter Wertheim

by Peter Wertheim

20 Jul 05:35am

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Filed under: Cattle, Indonesia, Kosher, Law, Live Export Ban, Livestock, Slaughter

41 comments

Please allow me to reply to Geoff Russell’s specific claims about Kosher slaughter in “You won’t be stunned to hear that slaughter is brutal”. 

He says, “There is no shortage of scientific proof that religious (Halal or Kosher) slaughter involves more suffering than proper stunning.” 

Actually, Geoff, in the case of Kosher slaughter there is NO such proof. On the contrary, there is strong scientific evidence that Kosher killing is humane and does not cause the animal distress or undue pain. 

Professor Temple Grandin of Colorado State University is arguably the world’s foremost authority on the humane treatment of livestock and was one of the experts interviewed on the Four Corners program that uncovered the cruel treatment of animals in Indonesia.

She has conducted studies on kosher slaughter, and in the April 2010 edition of Meat and Poultry magazine, stated: “I have observed that cattle held in an upright restraint device had almost no reaction to correctly done kosher slaughter that was performed with a special long knife. The cut with the special knife appeared to not cause pain.” Elsewhere she notes that “it appears the animal is not aware that its throat has been cut” in kosher slaughter.

Dr Flemming Bager, head of the Danish Veterinary Laboratory, conducted similar experiments in 1992, which likewise indicated that the animals felt no pain and, indeed, did not even pull away as their throat was cut, even when they had no body restraints.

Dr Stuart Rosen of Imperial College London noted in his paper titled “Physiological Insights into Shechita”, published in The Veterinary Record (June 12, 2004): “Shechita (Kosher slaughter) is a painless and humane method of animal slaughter.”

A study some years ago in New Zealand (the Massey Study) tried to prove that Kosher slaughter causes the animal undue suffering.  But the Massey study has been extensively critiqued by Grandin and others for failing to accurately emulate shechita methods and for extrapolating conclusions about calves to other kinds of animals.

It is not clear that stunning is always effective in preventing suffering.  Captive bolt stunning (the most common form of stunning used in Australia) involves delivering a heavy blow to the animal’s head before its throat is cut.

Ordinarily, the animal should be rendered unconscious instantly but sometimes the stunning is botched and the animal undergoes unnecessary suffering. Jewish law does not permit pre-stunning because of the requirement that the animal must not be injured or mistreated in any way before it is slaughtered.

Geoff Russell also says “For cattle in particular, even the best of techniques which kill without stunning leave the animal conscious of its agony for a minute or more.”  In Australia, cattle which are killed according to shechita are stunned immediately upon slaughter with not even a few seconds’ delay. 

Finally Geoff Russell makes the insidious claim that “New Zealand has since caved to Jewish pressure [by maintaining the legality of shechita] on chickens but has held firm on large animals”. 

In fact, the NZ government’s purported ban on shechita last year was challenged under the NZ Human Rights Act.  It is highly improper for him to suggest that there was anything untoward about this. 

The NZ Animal Welfare Code has now been amended to allow for shechita of poultry. Under the interim court orders (which continue) Kosher slaughter of lamb is also permitted for local consumption.  In practical terms the status quo prior to the shechita ban has therefore been restored.

Kosher slaughter has been lawful in Australia since the mid-19th century and, like all animal slaughter, continues to be subject to strict government regulation.

The shocking treatment of cattle in Indonesia has led to a knee-jerk reaction by some people who claim it is hypocritical of Australia to criticise Indonesia for not stunning livestock imported from Australia when it is not mandatory here. 

They overlook the fact that we have other humane ways of slaughtering livestock in Australia, including Kosher slaughter, that are not available in Indonesia. 

There is no organised Jewish community - and therefore no Kosher slaughter - in Indonesia.

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41 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • atthepub says:

      06:28am | 20/07/11

      As long as I can remember I’ve heard people say that ” bleeding to death is the most pleasant way to die”

      Is that true? Does anyone know where that line comes from?

      Reply

    • Erick says:

      07:51am | 20/07/11

      I don’t know where that line comes from, but I did nearly bleed to death once. It wouldn’t have been a bad way to go. You just breathe faster and then lose consciousness.

    • baal says:

      08:20am | 20/07/11

      It comes from the fact that animals look peaceful in the final stages. They are not they are just deprived of oxygen.
      I have bled to death and was revived with some effort. The horror I went through is beyond words. If a cow feels even a fraction of the panic helplessness or fear a human feels then it is wrong.

    • Chris L says:

      08:32am | 20/07/11

      Apparently the only sensation, apart from the cut, is feeling gradually colder as the lost blood takes your body warmth with it. I can imagine worse ways to go.

    • Leggy says:

      12:17pm | 20/07/11

      It depends on where you’re bleeding from. I imgine bleeding out from a several leg artery would be pretty unpleasant, but having the carotid and jugular severed in the neck - which should happen in both kosher and halal slaughter, if properly done - causes a swift drop in blood pressure in the brain, leading to almost instant unconsciousness.

    • Kevin says:

      08:22am | 20/07/11

      Why is piety linked to the method of slaughtering an animal?
      Why in order to please god, is it necessary to wear certain clothes or abstain from certain foods or to have one’s foreskin removed?  These things have nothing whatsoever to do with morality or the measure of “a good person”.
      Kosher and Halal butchery are the remnants of ancient times.  They have no real bearing on man’s connection with god.

      Reply

    • Chris L says:

      08:35am | 20/07/11

      ‘cause god has ocd.

    • HappyCynic says:

      09:13am | 20/07/11

      @Kevin

      That’s not your concern.  So long as we’re not hurting anyone or anything then why should you care how others choose to worship G-d?

      Being Jewish was good enough for one of your christian gods, it’s good enough for me.

    • suha says:

      08:50am | 20/07/11

      Dear All,

      Halaal or Kosher is the way God instructed us to kill an animal if we must consume meat. The animal must be free ranging and the knife hidden from him, Nor should other animals witness the killing. One says in the name of god before the killing since one is supposed to anyway in Islam say that before any action. One swift cut of the Jugular vein, NOT the throat is the way. The animal, it is told feels no pain (that is god’s will?) because, the instant messaging to the brain is immediately disconnected. You must let the animal bleed so that the blood does not clot inside or become toxic and is then therefore fit for human consumption. God is merciful. God is not in need of us, but we are if we only realize - and how grateful should we be for his blessings! Peace!!

      Reply

    • Tron says:

      09:50am | 20/07/11

      You wont get too far spruiking all that here boss

    • gavin says:

      09:23am | 20/07/11

      halal and kosher meat is healthier as the practice of letting to blood run means that the blood does not remain in the meat.

      given that choice between healthy meat for humans consumption vs bloody unhealthy meat - I will definately go for healthy meat.

      Reply

    • sylvie says:

      10:21am | 20/07/11

      @gavin, The ‘healthiest’ eater I knew got stomach cancer at 56.  He’s dead.

    • Roland says:

      12:06pm | 20/07/11

      stunned animals are bled too, they are just unconcious when it happens.

    • Geoff Russell says:

      12:22pm | 20/07/11

      Hi Peter. you are certainly correct that stunning can go horribly wrong. In my article I drew attention to this and to the best practice stunning that requires plenty of capital investment in the right tools. You make assertions about post-stunning in Australia that are impossible to verify. I’d be happy if kosher slaughter houses had a 24x7 video feed so the public could see that what was supposed to happen actually happens.  Ditto slaughterhouses which pre-stun.

      As for scientific data. I have great respect for Temple Grandin but she is out on a scientific limb on this one. The European Scientific Panel on Animal Health and welfare disputed her claims ... which are really only that the animal doesn’t SHOW any suffering if everything goes according to plan.
      Their argument, supported by EEG, is that obviously the animal can’t
      bellow with its throat cut and major nerve damage will diminish its capacity to respond.  People who experience surgery while fully conscious but without being able to tell their doctor that they are not anaesthetised aren’t impressed by the ordeal.

      Regardless of what happens during the last minutes of the animal’s life, I find the religious view that you don’t need to justify eating an animal because it is God’s will quite repugnant ... whatever religion is involved.
      The science and thousands of years of experience is quite clear. People don’t need to eat meat. The science is also absolutely clear that eating meat is no longer sustainable at anything remotely like its current level.  Do your religious views absolve you from responsibility to help solve our current
      climate and general environmental problems?

      Reply

    • HappyCynic says:

      01:20pm | 20/07/11

      The climate and general environmental issues aren’t really the issue being discussed here.  Besides these issues can be readily solved.  The issue is “do animals suffer unnecessarily according to the halal and kosher methods of slaughtering?” and in my opinion there really isn’t any good evidence to support either stance.

      And whether or not we need to eat meat doesn’t matter either, meat is delicious, I’ll enjoy some on occasion if I want to and should be allowed the freedom to do so, we all do all sorts of things that we don’t need to do, that’s part of the fun and variety of life.  Also if G-d didn’t want us to eat other animals, He wouldn’t have made them from delicious, delicious meat smile

    • MarkS says:

      01:24pm | 20/07/11

      I find your arrogant self righteousness repugnant

    • michael j says:

      04:19pm | 20/07/11

      Once again Geoff i would be more than happy if all these carbon machines were got rid of so we would have more time to fix the carbon problem without a stupid CARBON TAX if as you say we don’t need to eat them we might as well get rid of them ,,no point in just having them walk around dropping carbon FARTS for no reason ,,

    • Brendan says:

      09:08pm | 20/07/11

      Geoff,
      Evolution has been occuring for several billion years. Organisms are well developed to live in their environment, and consume the foods required to survive. Now if we look at the fourth tooth from the midline we can see the canine. Carnivors have large canine teeth (dogs, lions etc), herbivores have none (cattle included). Omnivores have modest canine teeth - humans included. Your statements regarding thousands of years experience fly in the face of hundreds of thousands of years of evolution. Humans are equipped to eat meat, the amount is open to debate, but please stop sounding from the mountain (as you have done for several weeks in this forum) that those who eat meat are morally or intellectually corrupt!
      On a final point, unless the animals spinal chord is severed (which I doubt as the head would need to be removed in one cut) the nerves that control breathing will remain intact. If an animal in this condition tries to bellow the movement of the abdomen and chest associated with the action would be clearly visible. If an expert such as Temple Grandin observed this she would understand the action. Once again you are taking a very arrogant position in your comments. You are welcome to your views, however please have respect for those whose views differ from yours!

    • No-fossil carnivore says:

      11:37pm | 20/07/11

      Piffle.

      Humans are carnivores. We evolved from apes with a staple diet of raw meat. We domesticated the dog to assist in the hunt. We domesticated the cow, sheep, and goat PURELY for food. We have always fished.
      We domesticated the horse, camel and buffalo for food and transport.

      ...ask yourself why all vegos are pale? Its because they deny themselves the haemoglobin-based protein that our entire species is evolved to metabolise - and everyone who is vego requires supplementary provision of.. (soy anyone? No, not for me.. I’ll have a lamb chop instead.. tastes better, and is better for me).

      When you link your crybaby veganism to the climate/carbon argument you cloud people’s understanding.
      Unhitching energy from fossil fuels is completely logical, necessary - and inevitable. One day there will be no more combustible dirt.
      On that day I will use non-fossil energy to cook my steak.

      Kindly stop providing the pro-fossil retrogrades the proof they vainly seek that only vegans want renewable energy.

    • Frank says:

      12:50pm | 20/07/11

      UMMM does anyone else feel a bit iffy about letting guys with beards like that (without wearing Hair nets lol) near meat at all? uhh Health and Safety much?

      Reply

    • Craig of North Brisbane says:

      01:19pm | 20/07/11

      My thoughts exactly.  Surely those Jewish gentlemen should be wearing beard nets or something.  Whiskers are definitely something I don’t want to find in my steak.

    • stephen says:

      01:19pm | 20/07/11

      It’s OK…they’re only cutting up Christians.

    • Jayshir says:

      12:54pm | 20/07/11

      perhaps a little off topic but - looking at the photo with this article my first reaction is that a bigger threat to hygiene concerns are the thick beards of those 3 men. Bit hard to wear a hair net/cap over a beard.

      Reply

    • UP The Abbottohs!! says:

      12:58pm | 20/07/11

      Is Kosher an Indonesian practice?

      Reply

    • Fox says:

      01:19pm | 20/07/11

      If i was having my throat cut i would rather have that happen if i was unconscious.What i find more disturbing is the photo showing workers not wearing hair and beard nets.

      Reply

    • michael j says:

      02:22pm | 20/07/11

      What can i say ,this is what happens when you fuc- unions off and let greedy capitalist bastards run the show,,this use of the word stunned on an animal that has just had its skull smashed into its brain by a bolt or a pin gun piece its brain or spinal cord by 3 inches is a bit odd,while its heart may still be beating as i have felt many times while bleeding an animal,and of course other organs may still be sort of working ,it is very rare for animal to walk around after having its skull smashed,,people may have heard of humans being on a machine because their organs still work but their brain is dead ? yes a bit stunned ,,in my experience with kosher the animal which i have only seen done on the ground was hit with the bolt gun as soon as the priest made his cut ,the animal was then lifted onto the rail and bleed by our blokes,,i recently read blood flow rates for live cattle n knocked ones and there seems not a lot of difference but in my observation i believe the blood leaves the body more quickly if bleed from the main artery near the heart,,anyway blood is not bad for you ,why wood people eat black pudding,,mmm tastie stuff,,kosher or halal don’t make for better meat but are olde testament tales from an outdated book even if it is a ripper read ,
      every nite before i say my prayes ,usually about lotto,,,,
      and rest easy if that photo is in Australia those blokes got sacked a few hours ago,,,my olde mate tells me they wear more like a radiation suit these days,,,,,

      Reply

    • Richard says:

      02:24pm | 20/07/11

      It seems pretty self-serving, if not disingenuous, to argue that you can’t pre-stun “because of the requirement that the animal must not be injured or mistreated in any way before it is slaughtered” when stunning is performed as part of the slaughter process.

      I like Geoff Russel’s idea of a 24/7 video feed in all slaughter houses in order to assure us all that best humane practice is followed at all times. I hate the thought I might be sending my animals to inhumane slaughter and I’d be happy to have one in my cattle yards if that is what it takes to lift the industry’s game.

      Reply

    • Paul Murray says:

      02:45pm | 20/07/11

      @Kevin: “Why is piety linked to the method of slaughtering an animal?”

      Because religion is all about cookery. Religion comes from the days when mankind first discovered the use of fire to cook meat.

      What is the nature of sacrifice? You give something up to the gods, and you receive back something that less than what you gave, but which is transformed, that is made “holy” (ie: “clean”).  What bits of the sacrifice do the gods take? The bones and the fat. They are taken by “the gods” for their food. What clearer reference to cook-fires do you need?

      It’s all about bbq-ing the meat. Kosher slaughter involves draining the blood. It’s about food preparation. Why does the NT forbid meat offered to idols? Because primal religion is all about cooking the meat in a communal BBQ and everyone receiving the cooked meat back from the gods.

      The thing that makes us human is not tool use, or culture. It’s that we eat (and crave) cooked meat. That’s what religion is all about.

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      06:52pm | 20/07/11

      If Religion comes from cooked meat how come there ain’t a zillion vegans lining up for a gig on Masterchef ?
      And did you know that the French actually cook their lettuce, but eat their snails raw ?
      Heathens.

    • Suha says:

      08:54pm | 20/07/11

      ‘I find the religious view that you don’t need to justify eating an animal because it is God’s will quite repugnant ... whatever religion is involved.’ -

      I think I was quite clear with my statement, I said IF one must eat meat, I did not mean it was God’s will we should eat meat. I meant it may be God’s will or mercy that the animal does not feel pain.  Having your brain smashed in as said above must be excruciating while you are still alive, either way we have no clue so those who do believe in the Creator of this universe will believe that if he shows you how to kill an animal. Hallal by the way means (permitted). Just like we are told and we accept that we bury with a thin shroud before 24 hours’ it is best for you’ we will, instead of embalming and storing it in a wooden box for days. Or even cremating the body (ash is not bio degradable btw).
      and as for cooking lettuce? That is a first! We do not ccok our lettuce and snails are oven roasted in garlic butter..its texture is similar to a mussels! yum!  Any day over oink oink!! wink peace! over!

      Reply

    • stephen says:

      10:03pm | 20/07/11

      Bullshit Suly.
      Recipe: French peas and lettuce.
      nob of butter, tablespoon of flour, 300 mls of chicken stock and add lemon juice.
      Simmer and eat when your out of beer.

      (Wish I could say a luscious french gal told me this dish, but it was Jamie Oliver and I wrote it down. It is, however, quite typical, I’m told.)

    • Suzanne says:

      09:53pm | 20/07/11

      I am really disturbed about the amount of misinformation that gets peddled in the name of religion. Lets look at the facts, science. It’s very convenient, Peter, to dismiss the Massey studies. They showed with the use of electroencephalograms (EEGs) that calves feel pain when their throat is cut. It is absurd to say that this study isn’t relevant because knives were sharpened by machine rather than by hand. The difference is minimal. It is also disingenuous to say the study doesn’t apply to animals other than calves. Yes, there are differences in the time different species take to bleed to death, but this does not mean one species feels pain and another doesn’t.’
      ’ You are very selective about whose opinion you quote, Peter. What about the Federation of Veterinarians of Europe, the Farm Animal Welfare Council of the UK, the British Veterinary Association and the Scientific Panel on Animal Health and Welfare of the EU? These expert bodies all conclude that ritual slaughter without pre-stunning is unacceptable.

      Then there are the misinformed comments. No, Leggy, animals are not unconscious in a couple of seconds. If you read the research you’ll find out that it can take several minutes for a cow to lose consciousness. And no Gavin, blood doesn’t clot in stunned animals and make it unclean. Again research shows that bleeding out is exactly the same in stunned and unstunned animals.

      Please guys, get the facts, otherwise the same prejudices will be peddled from one century to the next and the animals will continue to suffer.

      Reply

    • michael j says:

      11:55pm | 20/07/11

      A several minutes after a beast is knocked it has been dropped out of the box onto the belt,chained around leg and hoisted onto chain rail and had its throat cut and bleed,,, that’s in smaller works ,,,in bigger ones that probably run at 45/48 a minute its further down the chain ,,maybe even having its front hoofs cut off,,any that make it to this stage and seemed alive i put down to nerves,,,they are not consciousness after several minutes,,
      just like a chook with its head cut off ,,just nerves,,,,,,,,,,,,,
      but still all bovine s should be killed because of the carbon problem they cause,,,,,,,and my comment above says where you bleed from makes a difference to the blood flow,,

    • Geoff Russell says:

      11:35pm | 20/07/11

      Suha: Having your brain smashed can’t be painful ... unless you have a second brain to feel the pain. 

      Suppose I could convince you that the suffering of the animal was excruciating with Halal killing. Would you still be in favour because that’s what the Koran specifies?  i.e., which is most important, that you obey the
      letter of the book or obey its intent ... where I’m assuming the intent is
      a quick painless death.  If you think the intent is more important than
      the letter, then we can have a discussion about the science, but if your first
      priority is obedience to the letter of the book, then we have nothing to
      talk about.

      Reply

    • suha says:

      02:56am | 21/07/11

      Geoff,  I seriously doubt you could prove that stunning is less painful than the halaal method. Or even vice versa. I think the action specified in the Quran has to be in accordance with the intent. Why on earth should God tell instruct you the manner in which to kill, if it is not for the betterment of man and beast? (We cannot benefit (or harm) God in anyway so..just as it is specified not to eat found dead meat etc.) Science is an amazing gift of God - but the human mind is not more intelligent nor better than it’s creator. So in the cases where the Quran does specify certain rules, rather than leave to man’s judgement I do try to apply them as far as possible. It will be great if you can take a copy of the translation and a recommended book of notes (Ibn Kathir) and check it out. It is really really awesome. Bon Apetit! and Peace all round! smile

    • Geoff Russell says:

      08:07am | 21/07/11

      Suha: I was asking a question but you didn’t answer it.  IF the science was crystal clear that Halal killing was painful ... so clear that you HAD to
      believe it, then what would your response be? 

      1) God doesn’t care about animal suffering
      2) The Quran writers weren’t accurately conveying Gods thoughts
      3) God made a mistake.
      4) God was playing games with us ... just testing
      5) ... I don’t know.

      My guess is that any of the first 4 responses would indicate your belief in God’s existence might still be tenable, but not that he or she was a good
      deity. Being an athiest I have no such concerns, I just go where the evidence leads. As Suzanne mentioned above, I don’t have to make up silly stories about hand-sharpened knives being better than machine sharpened knives or any other such rubbish used to try and save my belief system. I don’t have to pretend that the multiple cuts observed when people watch Halal is really just a single cut. I’m not frightened of what a 24x7 video feed of a Halal slaughter house would reveal.  The film “Earthlings” had plenty of footage from a US kosher slaughter house, it was painful to watch. Of course, there was a fuss at the time, but fusses die down and who knows what happens once that happens.

    • suha says:

      08:38am | 21/07/11

      Thanks for the reply Geoff, Sorr y if my answer was not direct. I do not believe that you could prove something wrong in God’s decree, and if you do according to your research and evidence I would say that - that has a mistake and not the Quran. Again, the Holy book cannot be blamed for the sins and mistakes of man, if there are multiple cuts, that is wrong, for sure and has to be rectified but not by another method of killing. I have never seen the kosher method yet and the halaal method I watched a few times although it was difficult for me, (but then so are some videos of National G. ) it was brilliantly executed and I was amazed. Done as it should be.
      I think a 24/7 video on the methods will be a great idea, it will keep the rogues in check and the suffering of the animals concerned. Peace.

    • suha says:

      08:38am | 21/07/11

      Thanks for the reply Geoff, Sorr y if my answer was not direct. I do not believe that you could prove something wrong in God’s decree, and if you do according to your research and evidence I would say that - that has a mistake and not the Quran. Again, the Holy book cannot be blamed for the sins and mistakes of man, if there are multiple cuts, that is wrong, for sure and has to be rectified but not by another method of killing. I have never seen the kosher method yet and the halaal method I watched a few times although it was difficult for me, (but then so are some videos of National G. ) it was brilliantly executed and I was amazed. Done as it should be.
      I think a 24/7 video on the methods will be a great idea, it will keep the rogues in check and the suffering of the animals concerned. Peace.

    • Geoff Russell says:

      10:34am | 21/07/11

      Thanks for your reply.  Am I paraphrasing you correctly that any science which contradicts the Quran must be flawed? This is the fundamental difference between people who believe in one or other God and people who believe in rational decision making.

      The Indonesian slaughtermen shown in 4 corners believed they
      were killing the animals Halal. I’m not talking about the people kicking and beating animals, but certainly the slaughtermen interviewed.
      A friend travelling in Indonesia recently told me that his guide said the animal had to be killed with 7 cuts to be Halal,  not 1.  Why the disagreement? I don’t know. For hundreds of years Christians disagreed between themselves on all manner of doctrine. They still do. Its just like fashion. Science actually makes progress ... mistakes in science are certainly made but eventually discovered and scientists change their minds as new evidence comes to light.  Science used to work just like religion ... back in the bad old days observations were judged to be in error if they disagreed with Aristotle. They people decided, no, observations can’t be in error, they are what they are, but the explanations change and get better and better.

    • Matt says:

      02:45pm | 21/07/11

      Why do people believe that an animal remains conscious after its’ throat is slit?

      This is not possible, when blood pressure stops to the brain, the brain loses consciousness. Its different when you stab and the bleeding happens over a minute, but when you cut the major arteries in the neck, the brains emergency response cuts consciousness.

      As an experiement, get someone to choke you unconscious with a rear naked choke (youtube it to learn how). it simulates the action of blood not coming through the neck arteries perfectly.

      If you were to try to drown yourself it would take a lot longer to fall asleep than it does when being choked.

      Reply

    • facepalm says:

      05:10pm | 21/07/11

      Do I really have to be the one to point out the bloody obvious reason why there is no Kosher slaughter in Indonesia? Hopefully this will all become a moot point in a couple of decades when in-vitro meat becomes a reality….

      Reply
 
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