Bring on the death of paper billing and paying in person

YT says:

11:00am | 21/07/09

Yeah, but as if Telstra’s doing it for any reason other than getting more money out of us.  My family went back to Telstra after a gap of about five years - within six months I’ve asked the ombudsman to please please please tear up our contracts so we can go to ANYONE else.  The only good thing that Telstra has done is get rid of Sol - under his leadership it went from our national telco to a national embarassment.

GJM says:

11:14am | 21/07/09

Why shouldn’t I be able to pay my bills in cash?  Cash in my pocket type cash and no…. not BPAY… not with visa… as a paying customer they should be able to accomodate me.  Great if they don’t want to send out bills, brilliant initiative, but I like paying in cash and they want to charge me for that?

K says:

12:06pm | 21/07/09

Tory, your display of disdain for the “old” ways or anyone on the other side of 35 is just as narrow-minded as you accuse us “oldies” of being. I’m not a technophobe. I believe new technology has an important and useful place in our lives. But we need to be careful not to become cocooned in an empty world where human or face-to-face contact becomes lost or even extinct. I could pay my phone bill online, but I prefer and choose to pay it at my local post office. It provides me with an extra dose of exercise and I get to meet and chat with other people in a more personal way. I will now be penalised for doing so. I thought technology was meant to give us more choices, not reduce them. Tory, maybe you should try turning off your mobile phone, iPod and computer just for a day and taste the freedom of life without them.

jim says:

12:28pm | 21/07/09

Tory, I’m always wary of anyone who defends Telstra or other monstrously big corporations…they’re big and intimidating enough to look after themselves - and look after themselves they do. So I could be wide of the mark but the cynic in me is thinking of John Laws and hearing the faint echo of cowbells…

Alex says:

01:31pm | 21/07/09

In my dream paperless world we all have a little online portal area thingy that keeps track of all the boring admin-y stuff in our lives. Our pay goes there, our bills are listed in a neat little column, our superannuation has a little ticking counter. Medicare details are stored, including medical histories. The chaos of medicare rebates, govt subsidies, parent/study/work allowances are all housed together neatly and efficiently. Insurance. Car registration. Mortgage. And yeah, blah blah, I know it would be dangerous and hackable but…someone can figure that out. And all we’d have to do is log in every so often to tick a few boxes or authorise the occasional payment. Screw twitter or iPhones or online shopping making our lives easier - THIS would be the single most liberating device we could devise to make our lives easier. Someone invent it please?

Oh and to the person who wants to keep paying their bills at the post office for the “chat” factor - jeez. Wouldn’t you rather have more time on your hands to chat to your actual friends? Bizarre.

SD says:

02:03pm | 21/07/09

Alex:

There is a program that does some of the things you are speaking of - it’s called MS Money.

However it doesn’t work in Australia, because our banks can’t be bothered to interface properly with it.

Essentially, among other features, the program allows you to pay bills and plan/organise finances without having to log in to your internet banking.

I have contacted NAB about this - and was palmed off.

CBA at least has an internet banking export feature which allows some functionality, but exporting/ importing financial data seems to make the whole thing rather drab and ineffective.

Not sure if it works with other 2 big banks or not - but I doubt it.

We should lobby the Big Four on this! Australia deserves better!

In terms of the other features you outlined - great idea! Imagine the gains in productivity if such a program existed. No more lost super, no more missed bills, no more dodgy saving plans, no more missing medicare rebates… Conceivably it could be done - security concerns could be partly avoided by having sensitive data stored client side. Perhaps the govt. should sponsor its development.

Lucy says:

02:04pm | 21/07/09

What a strange justification for wanting to pay your bills in person at the Post Office - for a chat. It’s the same sort of people who pop into their local GP - not because they’re actually sick - but for a chat.

What gets missed in this debate is that none of these ‘services’ come for free. Someone has to pay. And for the indulgence of some, the burden goes to many - generally taxpayers.

If you pay your bills on-line, its quick and cheap, and then gives you more time to go ‘chat’ with people who aren’t actually working at the time! Have you ever given any thought as to whether the person in Australia Post wants to talk to you? They probably have little interest in what your grandchild did yesterday that was “sooo cute!”. They have a job to do after all.

These ‘in-person’ services are not being removed - they will still be available - but you actually have to pay for it. Those who don’t use the ‘in-person’ service shouldn’t be forced to subsidise it because you feel a little bit lonely.

HB says:

02:17pm | 21/07/09

Methinks ‘tis discrimination:  against the poor…..against the elderly.
I assume [dangerous thinking woman!] that the cost of ‘paper bills’ has been absorbed into the total account previously ...so really, increased profits is the bottom line - nothing to do with conservation!

CSJH says:

02:28pm | 21/07/09

Most pensioners are NOT “self funded retirees”, nor will future generations be such - we know this without question, as most people do not have enough money in super or investments to forgo a government pension in their old age, that’s true of both men (who traditionally have far more in super) and women. 

All of which is irrelevant to your argument.  Why are you sitting about bullying elderly people?  What have they ever done to you?  Do elderly people harangue you for your inability to undertake simple tasks without a computer?

Why should, for example, my mother be bullied into buying a computer, learning to use it, paying up to $50 a month for an Internet connection, all so she can pay a handful of bills each year?

Let’s not forget that the Internet is NOT FREE.  It costs me real money to be connected, therefore, I’m not saving any money for myself.  It would be cheaper - only $2.20 per quarter - for me to pay Telstra in person and in cash than it is to pay online. 

Why should elderly people be forced to buy mobile phones and use SMS?  Or to pony up to an Internet cafe, perhaps risking personal banking details in their use of a public PC?

More broadly, why is it OK for anyone to be PREVENTED from paying their bills? 

Because that’s exactly what these continual incremental changes entail - preventing people from attending to their financial obligations in a manner convenient to them. 

The only good to be said about this latest Telstra move is that they continue to provide exemptions for those groups of people most likely to be effected by the charges and least able to afford them.  So, kudos to Telstra for having some minor social sensibility left in their corporate blood.

Julie Coker-Godson says:

02:46pm | 21/07/09

Although I have a computer (ex-Public Servant Executive Assistant) and pay my bills online where possible, I can and do understand that there are those who don’t have the luxury of a computer and others who simply cannot get to grips with technology let alone tripping the light fantastic over the keyboard as I do.  I fully agree with the comments of CSJH at 01.28pm July 21st.  I am not a fully funded retiree either, being on a disability support pension.  We shouldn’t make presumptions that all people should do as “we do” as there are many reasons why this is not possible.  Personally I think Telstra’s action is a disgrace but what’s news about that!

Blair says:

03:30pm | 21/07/09

You know Tor, when i read the article on news.com.au about this i was thinking it was plain arrogant. Whilst there may be a money making spin to this, your article made me realise that it may actually be the best thing to do. I already pay most of my bills via direct debit and bpay, but was thinking it was ok to have the option. That said i throw out whatever bills i get in the mail as soon as i open them.

Probably a good thing.

Grant says:

03:46pm | 21/07/09

Bye bye paper bills….I can only look forward to Telstra further marginalising themselves in the eyes of most groups who need their services, as any social service obligation was ditched years ago & only its pretence remains in fancy advertising funded by a ravenous PR budget. Why shouldn’t every demographic feed more to the hungry Gorilstra that has managed to adequately serve so few for at least several years now?!

Shane from Melbourne says:

06:34pm | 21/07/09

Last I heard cash was the legal tender of Australia. To penalize someone for paying their bills in the legal tender is an interesting concept. Wonder what various statutory bodies will have to say about the various test cases that will come up.

Gerard says:

06:43pm | 21/07/09

There are many people in the community on low incomes who can’t afford a computer, and are excluded from paying bills online.  Nor do they have a credit card (or would one be appropriate), so they can’t be over the phone.  How is it fair that service providers now penalise people for having a lower income?

Eric says:

07:42pm | 21/07/09

This is such a stupid issue. My mobile carrier explains to me that they will no longer issue paper bills so as to save the trees. Yet because I want to keep paper copies of bills and things (for tax purposes) I need to print about 30 pages anyway. How is that saving trees??

CSJH says:

10:05pm | 21/07/09

Shane - those statutory bodies will be silent, is my guess. 

Hands up everyone who has no option but to pay their Internet bill, automatically, via a card, and then, regardless of whether the card being used is a debit or a credit card they get hit with an “administration” fee?

My Internet provider recently and disingenuously explained to me (via email, of course, since they “will not discuss billing over the phone”) that they have no way of knowing whether a card is debit or visa, so they charge everyone the administrative fee.  (This is the practice in many other companies, including Telstra and Optus, but only if people use a credit card to pay their account.)

Oh, and then there’s my health insurance - no other way to pay that other than automatically via a card. 

So, the trend is already out there:  no credit or debit card, sorry you can’t buy our services.  And if you can and do, we’ll charge you a fee for using a card! 

We are all suckers, even more so those who think this is all very “environmentally friendly”. 

Small tip:  trees are 100% renewable, period - one of the few resources that is.  On the other hand, computers, broadband infrastructure, mobile phones, all electronic devices, use non-renewable resources to create and operate.  So the greenies are the biggest suckers of all when they laud companies for doing away with “paper bills”, as if a piece of paper was the most heinous waste of the Earths resources - sorry, but it just isn’t.  Besides, as Eric notes, many of us end up having to go online and print out our records in any case, so the paper is still used, but the individual pays more per sheet (retail cost) than an organization would, with the benefit of economies of scale and wholesale purchasing.

Andrew says:

12:14am | 22/07/09

What do I do now? I have been letting Telstra send me a bill reminding me that they owe me $7.00 for more than a year now, and was planning to see how long the charade could go on for (considering that the reason that I left them was because they “lost"my billing address but managed to send my correct details to a credit agency- another story). My pound of flesh will have to be removed in poorly worded blog posts rather than from the franking machine at Telstra HQ…. I’ll come up with something.

Sandra says:

12:41am | 22/07/09

Environmentally I think removing paper bills is a brilliant idea. The shift towards electronic bills was inevitable and another symptom of our increasingly tech savvy society.  Once again this results in less contact with other individuals and less need to physically make an effort to leave the house.

The question is: how is this effecting our society as a whole?

My cynical answer is poorer social skills, obesity and other morbidities that are associated with a society that has forgotten how to communicate and who no longer needs to get off the couch.

Charlie says:

01:38am | 22/07/09

CSJH, the difference of course between all those things you mention that only offer payment by automatic deduction or credit card etc is that they are not essential services. A fixed landline is an essential service for people, especially elderly people living independently, how else are they going to contact an ambulance if they need one.
My mother is the perfect example of someone this would effect. She is now in her 70’s and has early Alzheimers but is still quite capable of living independently within the environment she has known for the last 40 years. She however is completely incapable of learning new technological skills such as using the internet for online banking or email to a sufficient standard that she could adequately protect herself against fraud (trojans, viruses, phishing etc). Now she is fortunate in that she has me, a university educated specialist in IT, who can look after her bill paying and banking. But there are a great number of people in the community who do not have that support and are completely incapable of doing this.

john mc kay says:

09:44am | 22/07/09

i have to laugh i have seen this coming over the last few months everytime i have gone to pay my telstra bil i have been accosted by a floor manager requesting my name[which is on the bill] and what am i doing here.told that there would be a 20 minute delay i should think about paying at australia post the line remained intact with the women in front of me abusing sol for a minute and they found extra staff.
lets start a campaign dont pay them for a month and creatae havoc

Jan says:

11:04am | 22/07/09

Optus is now charging to receive my phone bill in paper form.
I phoned to change over to on line bills and direct debit.
First girl in Singapore could not understand English or I her version
of it.  She kept telling me that my email address was already being
used - yes, by me.  After half an hour she hung up on me.
I phoned back and it took one hour for this process to be operational.
Wonderful!  Then I get the bill on line and it includes a mobile phone
that I do not have.  I phoned - one hour later the problem was still trying to be fixed .I asked for the details and the surname was the same as mine but the address was completely different.
The girl with better English but still in Singapore was arguing with me that
I had two houses and that this must be where my children live!!!
Next day still problem I phoned again over one hour to fix .
I now prefer to pay $2 and have my bill sent to me so that I can see what charges have been included.

PJ says:

01:40pm | 22/07/09

“Medicare details are stored, including medical histories. The chaos of medicare rebates, govt subsidies, parent/study/work allowances are all housed together neatly and efficiently.” - sounds like something the Department of Human Services was created to look into, instead of achieving nothing for the last 5 years.

stephen says:

04:25pm | 22/07/09

Peter Garrett can pay my share.
Twice nothin’s still nothin’.

laurie says:

06:35pm | 22/07/09

Accounts costs are part of the cost of doing business. the costs are apportioned across the whole user base . Under this method it will be a profit line as the cost of doing business will still be there except there is no cost now.
Over the whole 100% when people all paid personally the cost was part of the profit/loss now it is a bonus to telstra if they can cream $2.20 off some people for paying personally. They already had a bonus from people paying electronically.  It is sleight of hand .

susan says:

09:42pm | 22/07/09

so where do i go for my implant for this brave new cashless society.  god knows money isnt worth the paper its printed on.  of course, once we all are stuck with our personal biometric atm’s, they will tax us for the cost of scanning.  Hail to the New Order.

CSJH says:

11:05pm | 22/07/09

Charlie - err, yes, that was pretty much my point. 

With or without illness, I wouldn’t expect my mother to have to go and purchase and learn the use of technology either, all for the sake of a ridiculously low-tech activity:  paying routine bills. 

Laurie - you point prompted me to realise how ridiculous the Telstra fee is; think about it:  how does it cost Telstra money to have someone working at Australia Post accepting payments?  Doesn’t cost Telstra anything.  All funds received by AP are electronically transferred to Telstra by first thing the next business day - a single collective amount.

BTW - more payments are made at Australia Post each day than goes through the entire banking system each day.  In other words, most people clearly still like paying their bills in person!

Matthew M says:

03:23am | 23/07/09

You don’t need the internet to pay bills. Anyone with a bank account can access BPAY via telephone banking.
Every method of payment does cost the supplier ie Telstra - Australia Post charges them for the service, banks charge them for credit cards etc.  They already pass these card fees on to the customer, why should those who pay cash get off free? 
Cash is a very expensive method of doing business - it requires a large amount of labour (by comparison) and high security costs as well as featuring prevalently in fraudulent activities.  The sooner it disappears the better.
Why someone would want to go to a machine (or worse still a bank teller) and draw out cash so that they can then line up at a post office and hand it over to someone else is beyond me.  Make a 2 minute phone call and the job is done - surely your new spare time could be used more effectively - how about volunteering??

CSJH says:

10:28am | 23/07/09

Mathew - most people do pay their bills at Aust Post - using cash OR a card.  You don’t need to pay by cash in any place just because you’re there in person.

Laurie says:

04:08pm | 23/07/09

And there’s the rub. if you pay by eftpos at the Postoffice it will cost you $2.20. Telstra is profiteering from the cost of doing business. If it wants to be in the market place albeit a dominant player it shouldnt use its almost monopoly position to push its customers around. This a rip-off as only the bpay, or internet accounts will be fee free. Recently the Tas. Transport Department refused to accept Car registrations by cheque. Where does this monopoly bullying end.

can't stand telstra says:

12:50am | 25/07/09

Some weird points here. Who gives a crap about personal contact? It’s just about money, what’s fair and what’s not!

I pay my paper bills online, no lining up. But that’s because I already have a computer and a net connection.

It might surprise you but not everyone out there has a computer and a net connection (and what if my computer breaks down when bills are due?). Why should people be penalised for needing a paper bill and plain old legal tender to pay it?

And what will you think when they start charging a $2.20 admin fee to track the electronic bills? You know they’ll do it. Just another reason to ditch telstra for the money grubbing bastards they are.

David Brereton says:

06:13pm | 12/08/09

what does post charge telstra for the service of payment of our bill?