A year ago, my wife and I underwent a hipster-to-bogan metamorphosis. Faced with the choice of (a) continuing to service a huge mortgage on a latte-belt two-bedder or (b) have a kid, the primal drive to propagate the species narrowly won out over the Sydneysider’s obsessive determination to hold on to primo real estate.

This image badly cobbled together by The Punch

I was under the impression I was only inner-city wanker to have ever made the schlep of shame to the suburban fringe (I’m yet to meet another) but it appears not. Priced out of more fashionable suburbs, David Nichols, an urban planning academic, bought a house in the notoriously boganish Broadmeadows in 2004.

Of course, the danger of making this kind of move is you’ll go native and come to suspect the people you find yourself living among aren’t the uncivilised brutes of the popular imagination and that the community you left behind is not beyond criticism itself.

Nichols has just released The Bogan Delusion, a book that explores his cross-cultural odyssey and growing dismay with the self-righteous smugness of those who live within 10km of a GPO.
Writing off the denizens of the outer suburbs as subhuman is now pretty much the only kind of prejudice that Australians — especially educated, middle-class ones — can indulge in free of guilt, social censure or legal action. In the unlikely event a bogan-bagger is called upon to justify themselves, they’re likely to insist that it’s reasonable to hate on bogans because (1) Their selfish consumerism is hastening the ecopocalypse (2) Their racism is a terrible blight on the nation’s soul and (3) They keep voting, for the basest of reasons, for the likes of John Howard and Tony Abbott.

Nichols argues that the first two contentions are, at best, highly debatable. He doesn’t directly tackle the third, but I’ll get on to that one myself shortly.

Nichols, an expert in the field, points out people have an environmental impact wherever they live and that a case can be made that urban dwellers actually have a greater overall negative impact on the environment than suburbanites. Case in point: McMansions, built to adhere to modern environmental standards, don’t necessarily guzzle any more energy than 100-year-old terrace houses.

On the question of consumerism, inner-city sophisticates might be able to argue they have more refined tastes and more subtle ways of signalling status than those in the boondocks, but it’s a big call to argue they’re any less materialistic. (Despite the widespread belief that only bogans purchase big-screen TVs, I seem to recall seeing just as many of these in the lounge rooms of my former neighbours as I’ve discovered in the ‘media rooms’ of my new ones.) 

And urban hipsters’ cherished belief that they’re paragons of tolerance ensconced in the throbbing heart of multicultural Australia has to be one of the more absurd delusions of the modern age. Ashamed as I now am to admit it, I wasn’t aware that African-Australians existed until I went west. I never saw them when I lived in the inner city, just like I hardly ever saw (unless they were serving me food) the other kinds of people who I now live next to: Pakistani Muslims, Indian Sikhs, first-generation immigrants from China, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, Fiji and Tonga.

At least in my neck of the woods, all these people live happily side by side, so it seems bizarre that they’re constantly being slammed as xenophobes by those hermetically sealed in the most white-bread postcodes in the nation.

This isn’t to deny whipping up hysteria about boatpeople doesn’t play well for the Liberal Party in places such as western Sydney; unquestionably it does. But the reason can’t be racism, at least in any simple sense. After my move, I discovered it’s rather more challenging to be laidback about boatloads of uninvited guests adding to population pressures when, for instance, getting to your place of employment involves setting off in the pre-dawn darkness in the desperate hope that it will only take one hour to commute to work rather than two on some woefully inadequate motorway. 

Once you’re conscious of having a foot in both camps, the never-ending hipster vs bogan culture war seems a little, well, stupid. If only because you come to realise that the large majority of Australians also have a foot in each camp and fail to conform neatly to either the bogan or hipster caricature. 

Consider the following — inner-city elitist pin-ups Gough Whitlam and Paul Keating both lived in and represented the bogan badlands of Sydney’s south-west, while the battlers’ friend John Howard grew up in its now café-strewn inner west (before moving to its leafy north shore).

Whitlam, Keating and Howard all managed to dramatically transform Australia because, for a time, they enjoyed the support of the suburban heartland. Of the last six federal elections, the side of politics most willing to take the concerns of those living in that suburban heartland seriously has won four and drawn one.

The lesson for inner-city progressives?

They can either continue to laugh it up over bogans’ supposed fondness for Ed Hardy shirts, pre-mixed alcopops and naming their children after luxury car brands and remain politically impotent or attempt to get some their agenda implemented by doing what their opponents have been doing for the last 15 years — engaging respectfully with the kind of people who live in marginal seats. 

235 comments

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    • Erick says:

      06:03am | 24/06/11

      It’s good to see that at least some of the elitist inner-city set have managed to transcend their prejudices. Unfortunately, it seems the only way they can do so is by actually living among the bogans for an extended time - which means most of them will remain ignorant and bigoted.

    • Kevin says:

      08:24am | 24/06/11

      When are you going to transcend your prejudice against “the elitist inner-city set”?  Or do you prefer to remain ignorant and bigoted?

    • Sara Something says:

      09:42am | 24/06/11

      I’m intimately acquainted with the bogan outer south of Adelaide—I grew up there, in a family who think I’m strange because I read books by choice and made it to the ripe old age of 20 without having a kid. I live in the inner suburbs because, as much as I like the bus, I’d rather spend 20 minutes on it each day rather than 2 hours. I live in the inner city because it’s okay to be geeky there. As hard as I try, I just can’t get excited about football or reality TV, and my family don’t care about technology or politics, so there aren’t many conversation options left when I visit. I have seen it, I’ve lived it, and I’m never going back to it.

    • Budz says:

      10:02am | 24/06/11

      Well duh! It’s called empathy! That’s what you get when you get to know people in different situations.

    • Cry in my Gin says:

      10:07am | 24/06/11

      Gough Whitlam came from Vaucluse. Hardly working class suburbia. Cabramatta was just a safe seat to have. He bought a house there to give the impression he lived in his electorate. I do not believe he ever actually stayed there, can someone enlighten me please. Cheers.

      Erick, you are a legend!!!

    • acotrel says:

      10:39am | 24/06/11

      Pretty bad when the ‘them and us’ culture extends to suburbs in a capitol city? Perhaps it’s human nature, but fighting amongst ourselves is counterproductive.  Sooner or later we must gat leaders who look at the ‘big picture’ and move Australia towards achieving its full potential?

    • Robert says:

      10:41am | 24/06/11

      I hardly doubt you ever take the time to read any of the articles you comment on at 6.03am. Your comments are mostly only relevant to headings and the first paragraph - if that. Other than a race to be first to comments in the mornings your efforts are very lame.

    • James1 says:

      10:54am | 24/06/11

      “Unfortunately, it seems the only way they can do so is by actually living among the bogans for an extended time”

      I did that once, in a housing commission neighbourhood in Toowoomba.  It was hell - just as bad as living among the hipsters in Canberra’s inner north.

    • Redeker Plan says:

      10:57am | 24/06/11

      @Sara Something
      Yep, same here, my feelings come from long years of experience living in the outer burbs. I grew up in outer Dandenong in Melbourne, which was the outer suburbs back then and an absolute bogan-fest.  I was lucky in that although my folks were factory workers, they were book-worms as well, and insisted that I educate myself to have more opportunities in life.  But I remember well the attitude displayed by a lot of people I grew up with - that there was something wrong with me because I didn’t want to get on the dole and start breeding as soon as I hit puberty. I couldn’t wait to get out of there. 

      Now, I don’t live “inner” suburbs, but at least it’s east of Springvale Road! I’m a renter who could afford a house-and-land-package in some new shiny Working-Families-terracotta-tiled dustbowl, but quite frankly I’d rather live in a Brotherhood Bin then Narre Warren, Cranbourne, Craigieburn et al.  If that makes me an Elitist, well mea culpa.

      “You’re a yob, or you’re a wanker; make your f*&king; choice. Who’s your favourite genius - James Hird or James Joyce” - TISM

    • Bob says:

      11:15am | 24/06/11

      @Acotrel - We have such a leader, a man by the name of Tony Abbott. He represents mainstream Australia. He engages with ordinary instead of sneering at them. Thats why he will be PM!

    • acotrel says:

      11:32am | 24/06/11

      @Bob Always the comedian ? Don’t even joke about Abbott getting up!

    • Tubesteak says:

      11:58am | 24/06/11

      Erick, was your final line meant to be dripping in irony?

      I grew up in one of the most bogan areas in the entire country. A mining and agricultural town in NSW before the mining boom MK1 came. I am very familiar with the bogan mindset. It annoys me that we force everyone to vote because I know these people aren’t giving a considered vote (and they live in a marginal seat) and really do vote with whatever bribes are being offered.

      I now live in the inner city and have done so for years. But I also hate hipsters (pretentious bunch of barely employed wannabes).

      This country will never be able to move forward while we have to pander to people who really don’t have a full appreciation for the issues. I have no problem if you support the Liberal Party because you believe in their core ideas. Nor do I have a problem if you support Labor and their core ideals. But when people see them as being the same and only vote based on their wallet (or “boatpeople” etc) then we have problems in this nation that mean we will squander the opportunity we have in front of us.

    • Erick says:

      11:59am | 24/06/11

      I was born and raised in the bogan suburbs, then became an inner-city progressive leftie hipster for twenty years, then moved to the country for three years (where I still own a house for retirement purposes), then moved back to the bogan suburbs for another ten.

      IN amongst it all, I’ve toured every state on holidays, usually taking the less travelled path. I think I have a fair amount of experience of the different Aussie subcultures.

      They’re mostly pretty open-minded, but the inner-city lefties are the least open since a great many of them believe they already know everything, and anyone who disagrees with them is a bogan/racist/redneck/sexist/whatever.

    • Kika says:

      12:17pm | 24/06/11

      Erick - you are just a professional polemic. I am convinced of that.

    • andy says:

      01:03pm | 24/06/11

      Erick, you are complaining that “inner city lefties” generalise about “bogans”? Even a child could see the massive hole in your argument. You are falling back to the same kind of easy hateful stereotypes you think you are taking a stand against. You are the perfect example of what is wrong with BOTH sides of the spectrum these days. You spend all your time worrying about the “lefties” in your head and being very concerned they might hold some ridiculous beliefs. Are your ides not strong enough to stand on their own? Why cant you present your political beliefs in any other way than as opposition to someone? I can only conclude that attacking the left is more important than any political beliefs you may hold. In short, you are a hack relying on the easy well trodden path of left/right partisanship to make your comments compelling. If you take way the hateful rhetoric and stereotypes, what have you got? Not much.

    • Kevin says:

      02:32pm | 24/06/11

      @Erick
      “They’re mostly pretty open-minded, but the inner-city lefties are the least open since a great many of them believe they already know everything.”
      Whereas, in fact, you are the only person who already knows everything.
      Might I also point out that nearly all “inner-city lefties” began life in the burbs.  Inner-city lefties don’t have children, they have cats with names like “Che”.  The younger lefties had to come from somewhere else.

    • Fiona says:

      07:29am | 25/06/11

      Bob, Tony Abbott does not represent me.

    • Pixie says:

      07:56am | 27/06/11

      Hmmm…so glad I live in the country…and I do mean country…no neighbours, no worries!

      When I do venture into the country town closest by everyone seems to get on well…its not a WASP town either….its rather multicultural, like most towns out here…

      Kinda glad I have never had to deal with these sorts of people…

    • Gary Cox says:

      06:39am | 24/06/11

      The term cashed-up bogan was coined by inner city wankers who are jealous that the bloke who left school in year 11 to get a chippies apprenticeship while the inner city wanker did an arts degree (with honours) is now loaded living in a flash house in the burbs.

    • Robert says:

      10:58am | 24/06/11

      “are jealous that the bloke who left school in year 11 ... is now loaded living in a flash house in the burbs”

      No:

      “are jealous that the bloke who left school in year 11 ... is now mortgaged to the roof living in a flash house in the burbs”

    • Sam says:

      01:43pm | 24/06/11

      Well Said Gary and I think Robert’s post proves what you just said.

      I changed career from tradie to engineer a few years ago and constantly hear comments from people who have never left an office about how easy tradies have it and how over paid they are.  The “inner city wanker’s” just seem to love a woe is me story.

    • Jax says:

      02:38pm | 24/06/11

      “jealous that the bloke who left school in year 11 to get a chippies apprenticeship”
      or:
      “that the bong smoker who dropped out of school in year 10 now demands $150/hr to fix/install something that you can do yourself but aren’t legally allowed to…”

    • Steve says:

      03:52pm | 24/06/11

      To all the blokes who left school and became tradies, I say good on em. And there is a lot of them who (shock, horror) have paid their houses off completely, and their flash landcruisers and boats, jetski’s etc. and who seem to grasp that if I pay it off as quick as poss, I dont owe s**t to no-one.
      In fact, I think you will find it is more the inner city crew that are mortgaged up to the eyeballs living in a two bedder in the right postcode that cost more than the “bogans” 4 bed 2 bath house in the burbs.

    • Lisa H. says:

      06:48pm | 24/06/11

      Well we are highly (over-)educated w*nkers living in a fairly nice house in the burbs…and we have a massive mortgage…we bought our first home at the age of 35

      My husband, a professional, is determined to keep my children out of university. In his view, Australia’s ‘race-to-the-bottom’ culture and tax laws make a professional lifestyle less worthwhile.

      He kind wishes he became a carpenter.

    • Chas says:

      11:11pm | 24/06/11

      Jax & Lisa have it in a nutshell, it is the culture of mindlessly restrictive legislation/regulation that drives the pathetic divides in Australian society, it’s never what you know, just what ticket you carry. Thus the only way into our “guilds” the sparkies, the plumbers, the surgeons, most professions and trades infact is not a voluntary act of choice but restricted by connections be they family, friends, neighbours, schoolmates so if you’ve managed to break the shackles to shift from hipstertown to boganville - congratulations - you have managed to slip through the cracks in the great Australian malaise. Australians are a great bunch of people, but are imprisoned by a shockingly dumb regulatory system.

    • TripperSmurf says:

      10:21am | 25/06/11

      Its just that ‘race to the bottom culture’ that means that I will be leaving these shores at the end of my Phd studies.  If Australia wants to stop the brain drain then they had better look at where they are going.

    • Dan the Man says:

      12:17am | 27/06/11

      @Lisa H - your husband is determined to keep your children out of university? because of tax laws? So he will convince them as they are growing up not to seek tertiary education so they can save money at tax time? Shame on your husband for trying to influence his kids to not to seek a university education, and shame on you for boasting about it. It should be a choice left up to the person and not one they are brainwashed into as they grow up.

    • steve says:

      06:40am | 24/06/11

      The inner city elite will never get over their bogan prejudice because contempt is easier than co-operation.

      Also, co-operation means accepting the other side as some sort of equals, and then all symbols of inner city eliteness would look a bit silly - like the over-priced designer spectacles.

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      06:41am | 24/06/11

      I live in the Inner City, I’m a graduate of UNSW, but I’m certainly not “elite”.

      The term “elite” is used by the extreme right to silence the Left. It’s part of “New Class Discourse”

      There is a great book:

      Sawer, M & Hinndess,B (2004) Us and Them :Anti -Elitism in Australia

      Here’s a Quote:

      ” The central claim, then of “New Class Discourse” is that the Left exists outside the “Mainstream” and stands in opposition to “ordinary Australians” via its values, privileges and motivations. This"NEW CLASS” is constructed as opposed to the mainstream. “New Class Discourse” posits the Left as “other” as suspect as deviant” (p82)

      Thus one could say “New Class Discourse” is a form of Right Wing Populism.

      The same Right Wing Populism that is seen within the Tabloid Media (Think…... Daily Telegraph , Herald Sun, The Punch).

      This whole “Suburban” versus “Inner City” is rather silly at best.

      Have a nice day smile

    • Super D says:

      07:31am | 24/06/11

      Actually Drew the reason the progressive left is described as elitist is because of their propensity to believe that they know better than anyone else.

      Witness the tofu munching inner city progressives who have never been to a farm, let alone an abattoir, railing against the cattle industry.

    • twocentsworth says:

      09:17am | 24/06/11

      Super D, it appears that you also hold the belief that you know better than anyone else.  If you manage to have a look around you the people railing against the cattle industry are not even doing that, they’re railing against animal cruelty. I am one of them and have been to a farm and an abattoir.  In fact, I’ve worked with cattle as have many that also hold my beliefs.  Wake up mate.

    • Bev says:

      09:29am | 24/06/11

      If the left attacked the far right wing most people would cheer because their views are anathema to most people. The fact that you consider ordinary every day people right wing says it all. You are what you say you are not.

      “This whole “Suburban” versus “Inner City” is rather silly at best.”

      Left to their own devices suburban people just want to get on with their lives, solve their problems, pay their bills and raise their children to the best of their ability. However the elites keep sneering down their collective noses, telling them how to live and assigning tags to them. Guess what you will get a reaction. Not the forelock tugging to their “betters” of old but a kick back.

      Oh by the way you picked the wrong smiley. Should not it have been a sneer?

    • Michou says:

      09:46am | 24/06/11

      yep, I agree.  the Left really needs to pull its finger out and stop being defined by others…

    • RyaN says:

      11:29am | 24/06/11

      @Drew(Darlinghurst): congratulations on confirming the stereotype. Not only did you fail in putting through your theory, you just confirmed the tag.

      Oh and you don’t need to be rich to be an “elitist”, you just have to be up your own arse without a clue on reality. Like you and Gillard.

    • Miles says:

      12:00pm | 24/06/11

      Drew, if your post is not sarcastic in nature, then you have gone a long way to confirm the stereotype this article highlights.

    • acotrel says:

      12:05pm | 24/06/11

      @Drew
      ‘This whole “Suburban” versus “Inner City” is rather silly at best.’

      Divisiveness is the life blood of the LNP! They need it to survive!

    • Drafnel says:

      12:06pm | 24/06/11

      Ah, thanks Drew. The book you’re quoting from is clearly a neutral, rational, agendaless discourse and not at all one-sided, defensive or resentful. I’m surprised you would cast such pearls of wisdom before the swine of The Punch.[/sarcasm]

    • westie/country/leftie says:

      12:35pm | 24/06/11

      on the money Drew.

    • A different Drew says:

      03:48pm | 26/06/11

      I was raised in the housing commision beach areas of Maroubra, went to school with many of the Bra Boys and through hard work have earned money and made the move to the North Shore.

      I don’t live in the inner city.

      I don’t munch on Tofu, I love to eat meat.

      Yet I still consider myself a leftie. Why? Because I have a strong belief that everyone should have a fair go no matter what your lot in life. Not this “get ahead of the pack at all costs”.

      Now I expect to receive the old “bleeding hearts” slander from the mob here, but why is having a little sympathy considered so vile by the mob here? Isn’t it better to have a bleeding heart than to be a selfish bastard?

      I don’t understand why selfish bastardry and sacrificing moral ideals is idolised so much in this country whilst sympathy is demonised.

    • RyaN says:

      10:09pm | 26/06/11

      @A different Drew: then why haven’t you sold your north shore home to give your money to those that need a “fair go” you selfish bastard?

      Oh I get it, you want US to pay up, not YOU, I see how it works now!

    • A different Drew says:

      11:50pm | 26/06/11

      @Ryan - We do, it’s called paying our taxes and supporting social welfare. I don’t whinge about it nor do I invent slimy ways out of it.

      I was amazed by the pure greed expressed by the “poor little” 150k+ earners who didn’t want to pay the flood levy. A bit extra to help the poor bastards in flood-hit areas and they’re too busy whinging about their McMansion mortgage.

      In the same breath they have a sook about no longer getting the middle class welfare introduced by Howard. Why the hell should we!?

      We are over the threshhold, we will have to pay the full rate on the flood levy, we will get no carbon tax relief and no family bonuses - and that is all perfectly reasonable to me. Why the bloody hell should we!

      This society needs an end to middle class welfare and reallocate those benefits to those who really bloody need it, not mums and dads in their mcmansions.

    • RyaN says:

      10:31am | 27/06/11

      @A different Drew: the $150k earners weren’t the ones having a sook, the people who are unfairly targeted by this flood levy are the single income families.
      Let me explain it for you, there are two families living side by side, they have the identical income of $120k.
      One family is taxed almost $10k a year more than the other. That same family that is taxed more is also the family that gets slugged with the flood levy whereas the other family does not.

      What is the difference between these two families? Well the one that is taxed more and additionally slugged with the carbon tax is a single income family. This is a fair go?
      This same single income family is going to cop it really hard with the carbon tax also.

      While I understand where you are coming from with regards to paying taxes, you do know that tradies are by far the worst tax dodgers in Australia to day, far more so than the so called “rich bastards”.

      Now my original response to you was based on your question “Isn’t it better to have a bleeding heart than to be a selfish bastard?”. So considering your response in claiming that you do your part by only paying your taxes, I ask you this question “if you are going to claim to be a bleeding heart then if you want some credibility, should you not be leading by example and showing us your philanthropic credentials?”

    • Bris Jack says:

      07:15am | 24/06/11

      I’ve heard the bogans have moved into Adelaide Avenue Deakin

      I bet bogan bagger Kevin Rudd has never “voted for the likes of John Howard or Tony Abbott”

      I suppose Kev, who has purchased a property nearby won’t be too concerned about any short term slumps in property prices, if his plans succeed the Clampetts will be moving on very soon .

    • Rocker says:

      07:33am | 24/06/11

      What a load of tripe! Inner city elite v’s suburban bogan. Elite has nothing to do with this. The inner city wins every time not because it’s populace is any better than the “bogans” in the suburbs but simply because it is a far more stimulating place to be. Ask any school leaver with half a brain why they leave the burb’s for the"inner” city as soon they can.

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      08:03am | 24/06/11

      So true! As a Gay Man, I find most outer suburbs very homophobic.

      Hence Darlinghurst is FABULOUS !!

      Now where’s my soy latte…(jokes) raspberry

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      08:03am | 24/06/11

      So true! As a Gay Man, I find most outer suburbs very homophobic.

      Hence Darlinghurst is FABULOUS !!

      Now where’s my soy latte…(jokes) raspberry

    • AG says:

      08:17am | 24/06/11

      Drew being a gay man? Men aren,t gay mate i think you where meant to say Being a poof.. Stay in Darlinghurst so we know where not to go. Now let me have my Coffee. haha

    • Nafe says:

      09:11am | 24/06/11

      I am so gal your a Happy (gay) man living in Darlinghurst. In the Burbs we are either having a top day or we feel line we’re in the dog house. I don’t think i’ve used the word gay much before this post. 

      Anyway WTF is a Latte? For that matter wtf is a soy? Just have your coffee black and your beer cold and i could’t give 2 $hits about your private life.

    • Bev says:

      09:45am | 24/06/11

      @Drew(Darlinghurst)  Silly me I thought gay/lesbian marriage was about being the same as the rest of us.  Seems not, just a case of have and eat cake together.

    • Zaf says:

      11:30am | 24/06/11

      @ AG, Nafe and Bev

      Just pointing out that on weekends Darlinghurst fills up with bogans - who get drunk, dance at Arq, pick up locals of the same gender, spend the night doing whatever they do, and have lattes in the morning before driving back to wherever.

      Some of them like Darlingyhurst so much that they just move there.  These are called Dogans. (Similar to Wogans from Wollongong.)

      Darlinghurst is all about the Bogan Dollar.  Don’t doubt it for a minute.  We love you, and you love us.  It’s a match made in heaven!

    • Mike says:

      12:52pm | 24/06/11

      as a ‘school leaver’ (well, i left university with an engineering degree a few years ago) with at least half a brain…..why dont you ask me why i hate the “inner city” and live in the suburbs? or can i assume that you are just another lefty who knows what is best for everyone?

    • ausspud says:

      01:51pm | 24/06/11

      Drew from darlinghurst is a gay man who votes greens.
      WOW!!

    • pissed says:

      07:25pm | 25/06/11

      AG your comment is disgusting and moderators I am appalled you allowed such hate speech to appear on this thread.

      So what is a man exactly AG you seem to be the expert. I thought it defined someone with a cock, but clearly I must be wrong.

    • iansand says:

      07:56am | 24/06/11

      There are two sorts of people in the world.  Those who divide the world into two sorts of people and those who don’t.

      People are people.

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      08:13am | 24/06/11

      Or as Bab’s would sing “The Luckiest People in the World”

      raspberry

    • Max Redlands says:

      02:12pm | 24/06/11

      “There are three types of people in the world: the haves, the have nots and the have not paid for what they haves.” - Gene Hunt

    • george says:

      03:08pm | 24/06/11

      You’ve never watched Q&A then.

    • S.L says:

      07:57am | 24/06/11

      Nigel you might be the start of the gentrifcation of your new suburb! In Sydney turn the clock back 40 years and go for a walk through Darlinghurst and Leichhardt. Very different from today…..........

    • AnthonyG says:

      08:00am | 24/06/11

      Take a trip to Mullimbimby or Nimbin and can’t tell the differance

    • James1 says:

      10:17am | 24/06/11

      That’s the truest thing I have ever read.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      08:05am | 24/06/11

      Let’s examine these descriptive labels “inner city wanker”, “inner city elite”, “inner city elitists”. I’m seeing some ignorance and prejudice here and it ain’t against the bogans. Rating demographics by geographic area is an lazy and inaccurate way to go

    • acotrel says:

      11:37am | 24/06/11

      I live 220 Km from the Melbourne CBD.  I suppose that makes me one of the invisible wankers?

    • fairsfair says:

      11:45am | 24/06/11

      you’re not invisible Acotrel wink

    • AnthonyG says:

      08:09am | 24/06/11

      Ian there are two sorts of people in the world. Those who let governments rip and stooge them throughout their lives. and those who dont let the governments rape and pillage them.
      Labour/greens supporters
      Liberal nats supporters.
      Which one do you fit into?

    • iansand says:

      08:37am | 24/06/11

      This explains the rather primitive level of political discourse on this site.

      But, if you must describe me in terms simple enough for you to understand, I would be one of those rather soggy Liberals that were purged by the troglodytes during their lurch to the right.  The question that finally cut me adrift from the party that I supported for a couple of decades was simple.  I asked myself “What is a strong economy for?

    • AdamC says:

      09:04am | 24/06/11

      The Liberal lurch to the right is a myth. I call it the Fraser Fallacy after that preening, posturing former PM who seems to have created it.

      And, Ian, the purpose of a strong economy is to provide opportunity and a higher standard of living. A strong economy is the reason we no longer live in huts and die at 28 from the plague.

    • fairsfair says:

      09:07am | 24/06/11

      It might be pretty basic Ian, but it is essentially the only question that matters.

      I am struggling to identify where I sit politically but irrespective of how complicated my personal political ideology is - it is the above question I am asked at election time. I am forced to vote on the back of wasted money with nothing to show for it, or saved money with not a huge amount to show for it. The latter at least makes me feel a bit more comfortable.

      I am unsure if my worry for my own personal security has simply come with age (I was only 22 when Labor swept in), or if my memories are correct - and life was a lot cheaper and easier five years ago. I don’t know enough about economics to actually have a decent conversation, but I think a strong economy created many positives in the everyday for the majority of Aussies. Yes it is at the expense of services for some, but the beauty of Australia is that anyone can work hard and make something of themselves, if they want to.

    • AnthonyG says:

      09:28am | 24/06/11

      Ian I will never be as articulate as you and i couldn’t care less however your reason shouldn’t mean that you should be happy to pay through your teeth for your bills and too be lied to by your government.

    • iansand says:

      09:30am | 24/06/11

      Then, AdamC, the question would be “For whose benefit do we have a strong economy?

      fairsfair - perhaps life has got a little harder because Mummy and Daddy have cut off the subsidies.  Have you met TimB?  You and he will have a lot in common.

    • NicoleG says:

      09:52am | 24/06/11

      And here you go again ian, with your typical smart arse comments. Get off that pedestal you keep putting yourself on. You’re such a toss bag. Oh and you couldn’t be more wrong.

    • TimB says:

      09:56am | 24/06/11

      Wow iansand. That has to be one of the most jerk-ass condescending posts you have ever written here. And that’s saying something given the bulk of your contributions. You know nothing of Fairsfair’s personal circumstances (or mine for that matter).

      I can only hope she enlightens you as to what a tool you truly are.

    • fairsfair says:

      10:04am | 24/06/11

      Iansand - when I was 17 my 56 year old father suffered a massive stroke whilst driving. He woke up in a culvert and people said he was a drunk driver. He could not walk or talk and was stuck in Townsville (400km away) for six months. I, 17 was required to support my parents as my father worked for himself, could not access his super fast enough and his income protection insurance declined to pay out because the cause of his stroke was deemed to be genetic - therefore they advised that it was “pre-existing”. I was paying council rates, power bills and transferring money to my mother’s account so she could buy food while I was working casually and studying - becuase my father’s stroke was a day after the HECS census date and the university would not allow me to defer.

      So no - I have never had any mummy daddy subsidies, my parents are still on the bone of their arse and clinging onto the ownership of their home as all my father has left is to tinker in his shed.

      Anthony G says he will never be as articulate as you Ian. I am sure you will feel good about that because you seem tho think that it matters. Why do you insist on turning what people try to make an adult conversation into a personal attack based on your pre-judgements of anonymous people on the internet blog site?

      You know nothing about the personal circumstances of anyone - including TimB. I know nothing about you so I will not judge. It is clear something major has happened in your life to turn you into a complete and utter asshat.

    • iansand says:

      10:11am | 24/06/11

      AnthonyG - Could you expand on that?  I’m not sure I understand your point.

      It is possible to hold political views that are not catered to by either party.  I am a strong believer in capitalism - capitalist ideology has driven all the major societal advances for the last couple of centuries.  However, and this is where I diverge from the current crop of Liberals, I believe that the benefits of capitalism should be directed to all levels of society.  I can see a role for government programmes to oversee that happening. I abhor middle class welfare until everyone is middle class. This is the answer to my question of what a strong economy is for. 

      Howard in particular bribed comfortable voters for their vote and neglected the disadvantaged.  He was also short sighted and neglected infrastrucure development.  Politics almost always came before principle.

      I have not voted ALP since some bastard was threatening to conscript me in 1972 (although I confess I can’t remember how I voted in 1974).  I actually cannot remember when I last voted Liberal - I know I have never voted for Howard and I think I gave up on Fraser.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:15am | 24/06/11

      @AnthonyG- Yeah right. As if the Liberal Party haven’t been ripping off the singles / childless couples in favor of wealth redistribution to middle class family welfare, the sodding hypocrites….

    • Rocket Surgeon says:

      10:47am | 24/06/11

      @ fairsfair. Your premise doesn’t really stack up economically when you understand the need for governments to be counter-cyclical. Basically, governments are not businesses, they do not have the same constraints and objectives as businesses and they should not be run like businesses. This is not to say they should be wasteful or ill-disciplined, but they aren’t businesses.
      The Libs sold a few assets and reaped a motza in taxes as the economy boomed. They actually wasted much of their time for 4 reasons.
      1.  They stimulated the economy with tax cuts and handouts at the same time that private activity was at its highest. This resulted in monetary and fiscally policy working against each other so the RBA needed to push interest rates higher.
      2.  They invested none of this windfall in productive assets for the future.
      3.  They created a false sense of what responsible economic management involved. Just running a surplus isn’t good management.
      4.  They left a booming economy with a structural budget deficit. It could be argued they knew the 2007 election was lost so why not ensure the incoming lot were up against the wall from the start. Nice politics, poor government.
      Labor has done the reverse. They spent to stimulate the economy when private demand collapsed and they have removed all of the stimulus as private demand has recovered. They are investing in future infrastructure (you may disagree with the implementation of the NBN, they are at least investing).
      When you understand why the outward appearance of good management by the Libs was a myth you’ll come to the realisation that people like AnthonyG are just deluded and that an economic conservative, social progressive is dudded by both sides but better served by Labor.

    • John Smythe says:

      11:07am | 24/06/11

      Sorry to hear that Fairs. No real need to point it out to the likes of people like ian though. He still thinks I’m a Liberal. Usually best not to feed the trolls.

    • fairsfair says:

      11:07am | 24/06/11

      I agree RS, it is not as simple as I had stated, but unfortunately those are the terms that an election is faught on. No politician ever stands up and says what you have said because average Joe voter can’t really be bothered listening to them.

      Like I was saying, I and like most people vote off the back of when they found their situation easier. For me, even earning eff all money and having the huge financial responsibility in the support of other people,  under Howard, I felt that things were cheaper and I could afford a few more luxuries, like going to the movies because it was only $10 and exercising at the swimming pool because it was $2 to get in. Now the movies are almost $20 and the pool is $6 a pop and this massive inflation is in recent years.

      In recent years almost everything has become markedly more expensive. Surely that has something to do with the economic management of the governement at the time?

      I don’t think it is fair to call AnthonyG deluded. Robb Oakshott describes himself as an economic conservative, socially progressive. Deep down most people are, but in reality it is an impossible ideology. Both parties have recently moved toward the centre in recent years - it has been an epic fail.

    • iansand says:

      11:08am | 24/06/11

      fairsfair - I apologise for my comment (although I wonder if your personal tragedy was supported better by Labor or Liberal policies). 

      TimB is a flea.

    • AdamC says:

      11:17am | 24/06/11

      Ian Sand, the answer to your question is: everyone’s.

      And I see you are just as catty at 9.30am as 8.00am.

    • TimB says:

      11:52am | 24/06/11

      “iansand says:11:08am | 24/06/11

      TimB is a flea. “


      And regardless of your apology to Fairs you’re still a tool & still judging people you know nothing about. Perhaps it’s a prejudice you have against Gen Y. Who the hell knows.

      But one aspect of your prior comment is correct: Fairs and myself *do* have much in common. Whilst I haven’t suffered the personal misfortune she has, like her I don’t rely on ‘subsidies from mummy and daddy’ either.

      I moved out of home at 17. I went straight into full-time employment out of Year 12 in order to support myself and have continued to do so ever since, to the point where I am now paying off the mortgage on my 2-bedroom unit in the Western Suburbs.
      In amongst all that, I also found the time to undertake part-time study to achieve my tertiary qualifications.
      The only handouts I have ever recieved were the ones the ALP were throwing around under the stimulus scheme. I neither want nor expect further handouts in the future.

      To that end I completely agree with this sentence of Fairsfair’s: “but the beauty of Australia is that anyone can work hard and make something of themselves, if they want to.”, in fact it’s the cornerstone of my political beliefs.

      So you can bet your ass that I’m going to object to policies that appear to punish those who have worked for what they’ve got. And Labor has those policies in spades.

    • iansand says:

      01:33pm | 24/06/11

      That may be so, TimB, but none of it has improved the quality of yout thought processes.  Do you have a Lancashire accent - When I were lad they made us bury t’ coal ‘fore we were allowed to dig it oop.

    • Anthony G says:

      01:51pm | 24/06/11

      Ian the Libs During the Messiah Howard years may have accumulated a large surplus and was a little frugal with it but as it turned out. Had they spent it we would have been in a lot of strife during the GFC and Kevin, Jooliar and Bob wouldn’t have all that money to waste. we would be even further up shit creek

    • Tubesteak says:

      03:40pm | 24/06/11

      Rocket Surgeon
      You are a scholar! Take a bow.

      fairsfair
      Read RS’s comment a few times for a crash-course in economics (you say you don’t know much about it but this was brilliantly put).

      Inflation will always occur. It is inevitable. It’s been a long time since movie tickets were $10 where I am. They haven’t gone up much (I paid $18 2 weeks ago to see X Men at the “normal” cinema). I was paying $12 back in the late 90s.

      Therefore, basing things on when it seemed easier isn’t the best bet as it is subject to far too many variables to ever make sense.

      I’ve never voted Labor or Liberal as things have turned me off in every election. I sit to the left of centre where Paul Keating used to be. I now vote for parties/independents that are economically sound but socially progressive.

    • NicoleG says:

      03:52pm | 24/06/11

      Ian, have you been drinking? Could you come back and translate that last comment? It makes no farken sense. It’s worse than usual.

    • TimB says:

      04:08pm | 24/06/11

      Probably Ant. On the upside though, the ALP wouldn’t have been lauded for their serendipitous avoidance of the GFC, and they might have been tossed out last year. Which would have been nice.

      @ iansand, I see you just can’t shake your misguided sense of superiority. One would think your experience of shoving your own foot halfway down your throat this morning would have taught you a lesson. Alas you are a lost cause and forever destined to remain an absolute tosser. Sad.

    • iansand says:

      06:02pm | 24/06/11

      TimB - Misguided?  How could feeling superior to you be misguided?  For anyone (except NicoleG).

    • TimB says:

      07:05pm | 24/06/11

      Well iansand, It might have something to do with the fact that the mess my cat leaves in it’s litterbox being more useful then the sum total of your entire self-absorbed existence. Something for you to think about. You know if you don’t give yourself a headache trying.

    • fairsfair says:

      08:56pm | 24/06/11

      Thanks Tubes. I have read that again and I certainly agree that the previous government was not perfect. I get where RS is coming from in respect to the whole perception of doing something stakes. I do wonder though, as like Anth says, what situation would we be in if we did not have the surplus to splash during the GFC? Would we be ok to be sitting in massive amounts of debt? I mean that as a genuine question btw, I don’t mean to sound presumptive.

      ...and Jesus H Iansand - this is getting a bit pathetic.

    • John the Zombie says:

      11:03pm | 24/06/11

      RS you do realise that when the govt implemented what they described as the saviour of aus from the GFC that it was already over. You do also realise that it was not required as Australia was already in boom times and with a strong China purchasing (China was not affected by the GFC and actually grew double digits in its time) our minerals at never before seen prices the GFC would have nil or minimal effect on the Australian economy.

      Secondly the reason the liberals in their first few years needed to make sacrifices is due to the massive debt left by the previous govt. What would you think of the outcome if the liberal continued to spend like labour, I’ll give you an example Greece? Also during the period the Liberal govt did make changes. These were;

      1). Implementation of the GST
      2). Cancellation of the BADT tax on all bank accounts
      3). Cancellation of Superannuation Surcharge
      4). Lowering of taxes for all not just a set group
      5). Implementation of Native title
      6). Gun buyback scheme
      7). Repayment of debt left by labor
      8). Implementation superannuation scheme
      9). Reduction of tax charged on super
      10). Tax free for ppl who reach retirement age for Super
      11). Implementation of the futures fund

      And many other changes.

      Where do you think RS the Labor govt got the 22 billion for the stimulus package they implemented for the GFC?

      How much money is the govt borrowing daily to pay for everything? Let’s look at one scheme the NBN. 43 Billion dollars is what is been stated as the total cost of this project. The project will take 8 years to implement. Let’s say the borrowings are at 7% p.a. So yearly the interest on the project is $3,010,000,000. Multiply this amount by 8 years saying the govt only pays interest. The total of interest paid over 8 years is $24,080,000,000. So by adding the two amounts together you get the total investment in this project of $67,080,000,000. 67 billion dollars RS. To get this back the govt must sell it at that amount or the NBN has to deliver a ROE over the 8 yrs of $8,385,000,000 per year. Do you think this is possible?

      Economics 101

      Yes the govt ideas might be good but can the economically manage it, the report card says No.

    • Chris Deal says:

      08:11am | 24/06/11

      Mate, you’re missing the point entirely. Hipsters and Bogans are opposing sides of the same douche coin. The goal is to be neither, which millions of people in all city and regional towns of Australia continue to do, causing them laugh and point with great aplomb. The fact that you went from one to the other and are arguing for some sort of douche bi-partisan state is of course, another cracking punchline for my brain. Thank you for the laugh.

    • insight says:

      08:45am | 24/06/11

      I resemble this. Live in the suburbs, work in the city, mow lawns on the weekend, pick up an espresso on the way to work.

    • Matt says:

      12:51pm | 24/06/11

      It’s a sick obsession on this site, they can’t deal with you unless they first label you, whether is left, right, bogan, hipster, racist, ageist, generationalist, sexist etc… Let them have their labels and squabbles, at least it’s entertaining..

    • MargD says:

      08:18am | 24/06/11

      Leave the bogans alone, the chief bogan and her bloke now reside at the Lodge and she will make you pay (MORE).

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      09:04am | 24/06/11

      Julia Gillard is not a Bogan.She holds a Law Degree from Melbourne University.

      Worked as an Industrial Relations lawyer for Slater and Gordon for numerous years before entering Federal Politics in 1998.

      Mind you her accent is another story…:P

    • Jade says:

      09:35am | 24/06/11

      Drew, Julia Gizzard is the Queen of Bogan.

    • NicoleG says:

      09:36am | 24/06/11

      Drew, who gives a shit what degree she holds. She’s a bogan full stop.

    • majority says:

      09:40am | 24/06/11

      @Drew. I don’t think either of those things disqualify her from being a bogan. In fact she is the Queen Bogan, and that isn’t Hyperbowl.

    • Bomb78 says:

      10:23am | 24/06/11

      Drew - from where I sit I can see plenty on boys and girls with sandstone uni law degrees, who drive utes to the Breakky Creek Hotel and drink the XXXX off the wood whilst eating a slab of dead cow. They’ll head home half way to Ipswich to grab the trail bike for a weekend of bush bashing out near Gatton or Boonah. They wear the tag ‘Bogan’ with pride, whilst they charge you in six minute blocks.

    • Shama says:

      10:36am | 24/06/11

      @majority, it there is a pun in your hyperbowl, I am too dumb to get it.

      If its a spelling mistake, it is rather unforgivable.

    • Shama says:

      11:17am | 24/06/11

      @majority, thanks! I need to read more:-)

    • Max Redlands says:

      02:54pm | 24/06/11

      Gillard’s accent is a funny thing.

      For many years I lived in or near the area where Gillard was raised and went to school. My high school was the next one on from hers and I am about a year or so older than her (I think).

      The area she came from the inner south-east of Adelaide, which while not exactly Springfield or Kensington (people who know Adeailde will now what i mean) is solid middle class Adelaide (with a soupcon of that “eastern suburbs” mentalilty - Im getting into generalizing here but I hope you can see the pioint I’m trying to make), Anyway,the thing is, no-one from this part of Adelaide who grew up in the area speaks like that. Indeed I don’t think I have come across anybody from anywhere in Adelaisde that speaks like that in Adelaide and I have been all over the place for many years,

      Gillard’s parents were ten-pound poms but rather than opt for the tradiitonal destinations for them in Adelaide , the northern and southern (more industrial) extremes of the city, (which would, on what I take to be the general definition, be classed as “bogan” (see Snowtown - although Bunting was a blow in from N.S.W., but I digress), he chose the “leafy suburb” of Kingswood.

      The thing is the ten-pounders (much less their children) in the north and south of Adelaide don’t speak like Gillard either.

      One pundit I have read suggested the way she speaks is the way everybody speaks at Slater & Gordon. Can anyone enlighten me on that theory?

      Whatever the explanation it’s an extremely annoying tone of voice (imho). When she’s being serious she grates and sounds like a humourless school teacher - when she’s trying to be light-hearted she sounds like a giggly school girl. Her “inunseeayshun”, particularly for some-one with her education, is horrendous.

    • Scott-a-diddly says:

      09:27am | 26/06/11

      I rather thought Gillard’s accent was suspiciously reminiscent of Kath & Kim…

    • Chas says:

      09:30am | 27/06/11

      Max Redlands points to an interesting question, I think may have the answer… Amongst Adelaide’s more snobbish uni students there are two distinct subgroups: There are those who try for a faintly oxbridge type correctness but relax back to a traditionally plummy Eastern Adelaide thing - (think Alexander Downer) and there are the “faux rurals”. This strange breed slouch about in suspiciously un-scuffed blundstones and are almost exclusively from the most expensive private schools. They also try for an inauthentic Western Victorian country strine. Had Julia tryed to fit in with her uni mates in ths category that explans the Julia accent (part A). Part B is explained by her Welsh background. Whilst the usual 10 pound pom accent is a mix of Liverpool, Glasgow and Cockney (think Jimmy Barnes for the SA version), the welsh don’t fit in so well. The most recognisably Welsh influenced Aussie accent is the one from Broken Hill where they tend to end sentences with the word “to”. Mix some “Broken Hillian” with “Faux Rural” and you get Julia’s “false bogan”. Poor poppit - she tried to fit in with the posh kids but lucked out.

    • i elite says:

      08:46am | 24/06/11

      There is such a thing as elite here, considering that Australia was a penal colony. Inner citry “elite” exists only in the minds of people who are wannabe elite and live there for that reason. I have worked in the city with elite for 20 years and found out that amount of dickheads amongs people with the elite postcode is the nation average. City elite just use softer language for expressing their feelings or simply quietly stubb each other on the backs while difference of opinions in the west is being sorted out in plain language or in hand combat behind a pub. As to the show off : it is in the very nature of a man. The difference is : city elite gets around in absolutely useless in the city , expencive 4wd truck, gets plasma and watches Home and Away while show off in the burbs gets a cheaper truck, plasma etc only because his salatry is smaller.

    • GWS says:

      12:48pm | 24/06/11

      Grammar, spelling, and syntax. Very important.

    • EM says:

      01:39pm | 24/06/11

      Sorry, what?

    • E. Leet says:

      01:35pm | 26/06/11

      Best troll ever.
      So smart, it’s dumb.

    • Dan says:

      08:58am | 24/06/11

      Bogans think they have to buy things to make them feel important.

      Hipsters just think they are important.

      Both make me smile. Thank you.

    • bex says:

      03:02pm | 24/06/11

      can’t agree more!

    • AdamC says:

      08:58am | 24/06/11

      This was a fun article. I understand how much of an adjustment it would be, just from a lifestyle perspective, to move from a trendy inner-city locale out to the ‘burbs.

      Mind you, I read an extract of that ‘Bogan Delusion’ book and it came across as very hunourless, very silly and even more Marxist. Nineteenth-century class analyses (that were pretty suspect when first developed) are completely useless in understanding our modern society. The existence of bogans certainly doesn’t save Marxism from irrelevance.

    • Anthro says:

      09:54am | 24/06/11

      Yeah

      Lots of sociologists are Marxist.. anthropologists less so.. but ‘marxist’ in and of itself isn’t necessarily a bad thing. At its basic construction it is simply a method of looking at the relationshops between those with power (to any degree) and those with less. For example the relationship between John Howard and Peter Costello could be analysed on a marxist scale.
      The best social analysis on a marxist level was done by a guy called Erving Goffman in the book ‘Asylums’ where he analysed the relationship between inmates and wardens.
      But for the most part, a lot of marxist analysis is a case of making the results fit your existing assumption… especially if you start from the viewpoint of “X has power and will use it for their own benefit at a cost to Y.” In many cases this is exactly the truth (its why we ditched workchoices), but in just as many cases it isn’t. So marxism isn’t flatly irrelevant, but it does sufer from occupational overuse syndrome…

      As an anthropologist, I prefer Max Weber and Claude Levi Strauss. Both are loosely termed ‘interactionists’. Levi Strauss for example was a linguist to begin with, and developed his social theories out of studying the linguistics and language of Amazonian peoples. These guys use the interactions among people and the rules governing them as their means of understanding the society in a wider scale.
      “Twins are birds”.
      ...go figure that one out, eh? It’s a real quote from Levi Strauss.

    • Anthro says:

      10:32am | 24/06/11

      Oh and..

      “X has power and will use it to benefit themselves at a cost to Y” - is a marxist construct.

      “Everyone is a self-maximising individual” - pure free market philosophy… sort of “anti-marxism” if you like.

      But can you see they are identical? If X is a self-maximising individual, and has the opportunity to use Y to benefit himself.. under both marxism and anti-marxism - he will do just that.
      And.. Y.. recognising his place on a lower playing field comparable to X, will seek to engage methods that maximise his own potential… perhaps by joining with other people on the same playing field and taking their point to X as a group… a union, perhaps? Which under marxism is also exactly what they should do, but for different reasons…

      It’s interesting… we hate in others that which we see in ourselves. Pure marxists hate capitalists because, deep down, they want some o dat sugar, baby. Capitalists hate marxists because deep down, they also know, they ARE creaming the pie.. and dont want to share.

    • AdamC says:

      11:21am | 24/06/11

      Anthro, that was some dense commenting for a Friday. I don’t necessarily disagree with you on the usefulness of more tailored Marxist thinking. What I meant about the Bogan Delusion was that it seemed to be merely replacing ‘proletarian’ with ‘bogan’.

    • Shifter says:

      03:54pm | 24/06/11

      Hipsters are bourgeois?

    • AdamC says:

      04:23pm | 24/06/11

      Shifter, the extract of Bogan Delusion that I read didn’t mention hipsters. I think they defy such an easy classification.

    • Leah says:

      09:24am | 24/06/11

      This article and (if it truly is representative of real opinions) those relevant opinions too, mix up ‘bogan’ and ‘suburbanite’/‘suburban families’. Have you ever been outside Sydney? Some regional cities are small enough that everybody lives in the suburbs, bogan and rich elitist latte-sippers alike. Living outside the CBD does not make one a bogan. Owning a big-screen TV, as pointed out, does not make you a bogan. Being on the right side of politics does not make you a bogan.

      Leaving the house looking like you just got out of bed, screaming and swearing at your kids in the middle of the shopping centre, sitting on your front porch at 8am drinking beer - *that* makes you a bogan.

    • Bev says:

      10:13am | 24/06/11

      Leah says:09:24am | 24/06/11
      Leaving the house looking like you just got out of bed, screaming and swearing at your kids in the middle of the shopping centre, sitting on your front porch at 8am drinking beer - *that* makes you a bogan.

      Totally agree.  The problem is elites have broadened the definition to include anybody who doesn’t agree with them. Its lost it real meaning.

    • Anne71 says:

      12:27pm | 24/06/11

      Leah - totally agree.  Suburb, level of education, income and political preferences don’t automatically make someone a bogan. However, if someone is swearing every second word, ignorant, loud-mouthed and ill-mannered, then what you have there is a bogan.  At least, that’s my definition.

    • EM says:

      01:52pm | 24/06/11

      @ Bev, I think you’ll find it works the other way as well.  Bogans et al. now call anyone with an education, a well paying job, a home in the inner city or a left leaning persuasion an “elite”, and as such worthy of derision.

      This is not a problem that can just be leveled at the “elites”, this is a nation-wide class battle in which people are defining their teams.

    • Bev says:

      12:10am | 25/06/11

      @EM
      Difficult to say which came first the chicken or the egg though I do think there is a large number in the middle. I don’t believe back then there was such a divide as I see now.  Before I retired I was part of a research team we all did our bit. That entails profession, technical and trade all working together to get the job done and everbody respected eachs capability.  Sometime in the late 80s this started to change and divisions started to occur as the old hands retired.

    • Markus says:

      04:37pm | 25/06/11

      @EM, it has nothing to do with level of education or income - even a student that barely had the grades to scrape into an Arts degree, and is working a part-time job at a supermarket to cover their rent, can be elitist.
      It is primarily because ‘left leaning persuasion’ is more often than not synonymous with an attitude of ‘I know better than you all, and will strive to make you all do it my way, voluntarily or otherwise’.
      And as such, are worthy of derision.

    • Stripes says:

      09:27am | 24/06/11

      What tripe!  Is that the best you could come up with Mr Bowen?

    • double-shot long black says:

      09:36am | 24/06/11

      Nothing like a good morning chuckle, leading me to think of the ironic situation I now find myself in. I’ve gone from the inner-city, where I “acquired” my taste for the finer things in life, surrounded by hipsters…and wait..a few bogans. To the ‘burbs and the outrageous mortgages, together with more flashy cars, spas and designer outdoor settings of the hipsters…and gosh…more bogans. Then on to the “tree-change” in a quaint country town, full of wineries..and bloody hell…a plethora of bogans! To end up here in the desert, in a mining town, lugging my coffee machine and grinder with me, to find the town full of elitists, bogans and sideline observers like myself. In a mere 5km radius, we have them all. Don’t need a city to observe this “clash” of culture…just good earning capacities. Ironic too…the further I have gone…the deeper I dig into my pocket..*sigh*

    • Mick says:

      11:17pm | 24/06/11

      The bogan plague is spreading even into wine regions?  Tell me it isn’t so!

    • jade says:

      09:39am | 24/06/11

      Bogan’s have the most fun cause they don’t give a shit what other people think, they party hard and enjoy life (really the only people that suffer would be some of their children).  Inner city “elites” think they are better than everyone else, worry about what others think of them - in keeping up with the Jones’ style.

      I like to be a happy medium, have fun but do it classy smile

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      09:52am | 24/06/11

      I always loved what Quentin Crisp said:

      ” Don’t keep up with the Joneses, tear them down to your level, it’s cheaper”

      R.I.P. Quentin Crisp (1908-1999)

    • @CraigLambie says:

      09:45am | 24/06/11

      As an “inner city elite” and also a “latte leftie” and an “activist” titles that I don’t particularly fit into, but I am sure I would be called by many here on the Punch I enjoyed this article.
      I recently took the 1 hr trip out to the Sticks and did some door knocking on outer suburban houses as part of the Environment Victoria Petition to say yes to a price on Pollution and save the Murray - ie. Our life blood.
      I was not surprised to find that just as many people I spoke to out there supported the price on Pollution as did in the inner city.  In fact on the route I took, apparently more.  I had lots of friendly people supporting the price on pollution.  Only a couple of clearly Herald Sun readers that had been sucked in by the rubbish science.
      I grew up in the Country, so I have a foot in both camps myself.  But the way I see it, is I know how important things like the Murray Darling Basin is to our food supply, and tourism, and the like.  Far more important that Suburban bogans eating steak and driving their hotted up cars around drinking VB.
      So - I can guarantee the consumerism is not the only pitfall about living in the outer suburbs, it is the commute that is making them unsustainable.

      On a side note: It has become obvious to me that a lot of people that use the punch are about 10 years behind in technology, this comment system is useless, plus no one has ever taken a discussion across to Twitter, where you at least get notified of replies.

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      10:03am | 24/06/11

      So true. Taxing the 1,000 biggest polluters and redistributing the wealth to working families is what the Gillard Labor Government is all about.

      But we are fighting an uphill battle on “The Punch”, as with all News Ltd enterprises, they are nothing more than a “mouth piece” for the LIBERAL PARTY OF AUSTRALIA.

      A party that does not believe in the Science of Climate Change

      The Liberal Party are stuck in the Pre-Copernican period.  raspberry

    • AnthonyG says:

      12:58pm | 24/06/11

      Drew can you please tell me whats wrong with the climate .

    • Matthew says:

      01:31pm | 24/06/11

      Funny Drew, about 3-4 years ago every media organisation in this country was strongly against the Liberal Party.  Ads on TV were all about how bad work choices was, TT and ACA were also pushing stories about how bad it was and which lazy bums had lost their jobs because they didn’t work hard enough but could actually get sacked for being bad.

      All media goes in cycles against the current government because the current government does not want to give into their desires to give them lots of money and take it away from the poor or opposing media companies.

      The media couldn’t care less about what you want other than if it’s giving them money.

    • @CraigLambie says:

      01:48pm | 24/06/11

      @AnthonyG - are you livning in a cave or something?
      You haven’t noticed the change personally obviously - but also you can happily ignore the CSIRO, the IPCC and other science organisations from around the world and their statistics of History showing the change.
      To answer your question - nothing is wrong if you want to starve to death (well probably not you - as in Australia we are rich enough to buy out the food from under the poor of the worlds feet)
      You will notice, other richer countries are starting to do it here - securing food for their people by purchasing land in Australia - http://www.crikey.com.au/2011/06/16/foreign-ownership-of-aussie-land-the-peril-of-selling-the-farm/

    • AnthonyG says:

      03:34pm | 24/06/11

      Craige Lambe the only thing stopping people from obtaining food is through a pathetic carbon tax that will make everything go up in price I don’t know were you have been hiding in the last twelve months but the dams are full and the climate is fantastic for all. even lake ayre is full so you can pull your head out of the ground now theres nothing to worry about

    • hot tub political machine says:

      09:50am | 24/06/11

      I have the opposite experience. I get up in the morning and walk down to the suburban train station where I am surrounded by pretty much exclusively whites, mostly middle aged. Then I get off at the city station for work and am surrounded by a cultural mix which actually reflects the Australian demographic. I guess for me (probably because I don’t live in a transport nightmare like Sydney) “bogan” has never been about suburb vs suburb. Its been about the kind ra-ra-ra boorish, look at my expensive (but appallingly bad taste) consumer products that define me even as I think and buy what Alan Jones tells me to. I thought that kinda thing happened in lots of suburbs……

    • Tchom says:

      09:55am | 24/06/11

      What about the grey area between the inner-city elite and outer-suburb bogans? Are we off the hook or are we hated by the other two groups too?

    • James1 says:

      10:20am | 24/06/11

      We will be the first up against the wall when the bogan-hipster war begins.

    • Mark says:

      09:59am | 24/06/11

      The reason this Bogan v Hipster illusion continues is that it is comfortable to both sides, they both gain satisfaction by looking down on each other.  A bit like the Collingwood fans v All other AFL fans divide.

      So stop being reasonable, it spoils the fun.

    • Bilby says:

      06:39pm | 24/06/11

      I can help out there.

      A mini van went off the cliff with 5 Collingwood fans it, killing all on board. The police spokesperson said it was a tragedy, as the bus had room for 12.

      Q: Two collingwood fans are in a car with no music. Who’s driving?
      A: The police officer.

      You know you’re a collingwood fan when you can’t marry your high school sweet heart because there’s a law against it.

    • Shama says:

      10:10am | 24/06/11

      So over the bogan/hispter divide.  There are parts in the world too crowded for such silly demarcations of suburbs. And I have no desire to live in either ghetto-both sound hell. 

      I read books and drink coffee everywhere.  Its not influenced by the suburb I have lived in - plenty of which are a healthy mix regardless of the media broad-brush or the paranoia of city types.

    • James1 says:

      10:15am | 24/06/11

      Being bogan is an equal opportunity thing.  Bogan is as bogan does.  You don’t have to be white to be a bogan.  There are many ethnic variations - my favourites are the Indian bogan, or “bhogan”, and the Afghan bogan, or “boghan”.

      You just need to be shallow, crass, loud and annoying (please note, those also neatly describe hipsters, affirming the central thrust of the article).  It doesn’t matter where you live, or what you look like, or how much you earn, or how long you went to university. 

      In any case, hipsters and bogans, a pox on both your houses.

    • fairsfair says:

      10:35am | 24/06/11

      Agreed.

      Bogans in my neck of the woods also think they are way better than everyone else.

      So the Cairns bogan is the 4br 2bath, casino reception, two children, silver prado, pandora bracelet, my family stickers, unhappy relationship, trying to persuade partner to get a job in the mines lemming.

      I always used to think I was a bogan because I refused to conform to rediculous social pressures and mum and dad still drive a 1981 falcon - but no sir. The bogan is the one who must conform above all else, and then tell eveyone else that they should be like them even though they have it so “tough”.

      The Hipster is exactly the same, they just have opposite desires. They are still full of their own self importance except they dress different. You can’t wear black skinny leg jeans up here or you will die… literally.

    • Elphaba says:

      10:45am | 24/06/11

      This is helpful to me.  They’re essentially the same.

      Glad that was cleared up. grin

    • Rocket Surgeon says:

      11:05am | 24/06/11

      I think the “My Family” stickers are funny.

    • Karl says:

      04:55pm | 25/06/11

      The only thing more pathetic than “My Family” stickers are those “baby on board” signs.  Funny I somehow don’t think one of those signs is going to magically improve the breaking capacity of another car before it slams into your arse.

    • dude_nova says:

      10:57am | 24/06/11

      City people whinging about city people boo f*cking hoo! Where I come from it takes 4 hours to get to the beach, 3 to get to a decent art gallery/public space, coffee’s are 4 bucks a pop, petrol is 15 cents a litre more expensive, we don’t get any major sporting events, our infrastructure has been neglected for 15 years because it’s one of the safest national party seats in the country, 2 FM radio stations that aren’t ABC/JJJ, plagues of locusts and mice not seen since Jesus played for Nazareth to top off the longest drought on record. Farmer’s are being driven off their land by pestilence and debt, and our local economy is suffering with them. Not that you bunch of city twats would know what I’m talking about, you’re too busy jetting off to the US or Europe to drink expensive piss and take in the ‘culture’. Twist your heads west a little and you might just find that life in the city isn’t so bad, even if your skinny jeans are riding up your arse.

    • James1 says:

      11:24am | 24/06/11

      You choose to live there.  If you don’t like it, move.  That would be more productive than getting angry at city people for having city problems.

    • Zaf says:

      11:49am | 24/06/11

      [our infrastructure has been neglected for 15 years because it’s one of the safest national party seats in the country]

      The solution seems sort of obvious.  Have you ever considered it?

    • Anne71 says:

      12:33pm | 24/06/11

      Well, dude_nova, perhaps you should consider voting for someone other than the National Party next time?  But I guess it’s much easier to blame us city twats for your problems, isn’t it?

    • Rick says:

      12:39pm | 24/06/11

      Paddle faster I hear banjo’s

    • Elphaba says:

      12:55pm | 24/06/11

      I live in the city and am not jetting off to the US/Europe.

      As if I’d waste my time giving a toss at what the West thinks.  You obviously don’t give a toss what city people think.

      Methinks someone is a little jelly.

    • Mick J. says:

      11:04pm | 24/06/11

      “Our infrastructure has been neglected for 15 years because it’s one of the safest national party seats in the country”  So, don’t vote National.

    • Mythica says:

      12:42pm | 25/06/11

      Dude you are too funny,  this is the best laugh I’ve had all day!

    • PTom says:

      11:08am | 24/06/11

      Bogan is a melbourne term Westie is the correct Sydney term.

      Most of the inner-city elties types I have met live either south or north of the city where Abbott, Turnbull and Hockey represent and never have travelled further west then Redfern.

      Are thous that live in Parramatta westie or inner-city? as it Sydney second CBD.

    • Zaf says:

      11:34am | 24/06/11

      [Of course, the danger of making this kind of move is you’ll go native and come to suspect the people you find yourself living among aren’t the uncivilised brutes of the popular imagination and that the community you left behind is not beyond criticism itself. ]

      Very cool.  Sort of like a ‘Go Back Where You Come From’ thing.  SBS should make a doco.

    • TB says:

      11:56am | 24/06/11

      Being a Bogan is a state of being, not a postcode.  Where I live (Dural)  there are many CEO types in multi-million dollar properties.  So they are, by your definition, Bogans?  A university educated, middle aged, fine-dining CEO of a company who drives a luxury car is a Bogan?  Not in my book.  But in the same geographical area there are easily identified bogans too - the Maccas crowd in their mag-clad cortinas and commodores.  I hazard to say that similarly, in the inner suburbs, there are quite uncouth people, dare I even say Bogans?  Gasp!  Why do people insist on categorizing this culture geographically?  Sure, certain place have higher concentrations of bogans than others (Penrith, Dandenong or Caboolture for example), but blanket statements that you are a Bogan based on your postcode is an incredibly shallow perspective, and misses the point entirely of what a Bogan is.  Actually your article is so shallow I first suspected it to be a trolling attempt, until I noticed that most of your readers appear to have swallowed this tripe it hook, line and sinker.

    • fairsfair says:

      12:47pm | 24/06/11

      I actually interpreted it to be a bit of a light hearted take on what is social reality in a lot of Australian cities. It is friday afterall…

    • Mythica says:

      12:50pm | 25/06/11

      Totally agree with you TB!

    • Paul says:

      12:08pm | 24/06/11

      I am constantly hurt on a daily basis by my workmates who see me as nothing more than westie trash. I ask that all people remember what Jesus wanted us to do and that is love one another…......

    • Kika says:

      12:22pm | 24/06/11

      Hipsters love to knock other hipsters. In fact a sure sign of a hipster is brandishing others as snobby hipsters when oneself is a hipster.  “Look at his scarf… a fake burberrry. As if.. so Chav”.. or “As if you’d drink coffee from there”.. or “I was into Washington when she was still Megan Washington”.

      Though, I admit. I see myself as a hipster. The thought of moving ‘out there’ scares me. It’s inevitable. I live in Brisbane, and 6kms out. I can see my building from my apartment on the southside. See, I already am embracing my bogan-ness for living on the southside. But that’s my hood and I’ll take the southside’s colours over the northside blandness any day.

    • Chewy says:

      11:22am | 27/06/11

      Mate sorry you are not a hipster, if you live anywhere in Brisbane you are in Boganville. . Sorry.

    • Matt says:

      12:27pm | 24/06/11

      What’s with the obsession of putting people in little boxes with labels..

    • Johnny Quid says:

      12:50pm | 24/06/11

      Totally agree. Stop with the labelling and trying to analyze demographics that mean jack and go have some real FUN you miserable overly introspective bitches!

    • Kika says:

      01:27pm | 24/06/11

      Because our human brains have to do it to compute and size up whether one is a friend or foe - flight or fight response. Hence you have sexism, misandry, misogyny, xenophobia, racism, agism, eltism etc…  It’s hard to do, I know. But it’s something we do naturally so re-training the brain not to do it is very hard indeed.

    • Matt says:

      04:45pm | 24/06/11

      Perhaps Kika, personally I’m not a caveman anymore, defining friend or foe is as easy as asking, or smiling at someone.. People are people are people.. We’re all the same. Not hard at all to retrain the brain.

    • petery says:

      12:35pm | 24/06/11

      I checked out The hogan delusion in a book shop and until recently I thought bog an referred to a moth and not a myth.

      as someone who has divvied his time between living in Paddington and Sydney.s outer west for last fifteen years, I can agree that what some people like to snobbishly dismiss as bog an behavior occurs in the natural behavior. of inhabitants of any suburb in Sydney. Could I go sstathi suggest that to not be a bog an is to be positively unaustralian as it seems inbuilt to shell be right laid back attitude of the ocker.

      Like the author of the bog an illusion, I actually think the term bog an is a lot of crap, dreamed up be someone who did some shonky action research for his high school society and culture project. Probably by the same person who made up all the bigoted nonsense about baby boomers and generations x,y,z .

      if you think by the above comments I don’t take this topic totally seriously I don’t and let’s just forget about it and let hogans be hogans.

    • City Girl says:

      03:02pm | 24/06/11

      Most of the people that live in Paddington are originally from small towns, outer west or interstate. Does that make them bogan’s in disguise?

    • Steve says:

      12:40pm | 24/06/11

      I wonder if you kept your religious beliefs out of the workplace it might improve your relationships with yoyr workmates.

      Having said that if you act like trash you will be treated as trash irrespective of where you live.

      You want to sort it out quick because it sounds like people have too much time on their hands at your work if they are focusing on where people live. Jesus won’t save you from the pink slip if there is a redundancy programme and you are what is technically known as a religious nutter.

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      12:54pm | 24/06/11

      I think this debate has gone on long enough….so…let Bogans be Bogans.

      raspberry

    • Brian says:

      12:57pm | 24/06/11

      As someone who wasn’t born in this country I should point out that you are ALL bogans. Some just have a little bit more money!!

    • Kika says:

      01:35pm | 24/06/11

      And where were you lucky enough to have been born? NZ? UK? Somewhere obviously with no bogans, chavs or westies.

    • marley says:

      11:38am | 25/06/11

      @Brian - well, based on your comment, I’d say you’ve assimilated very well.  Though the sentence should have read “we”  not “you”.

    • GWS says:

      12:58pm | 24/06/11

      So many generalisations about whole groups of people. It’s rather insulting to reduce someone to a one-word term whose definition is still debatable anyway. Wouldn’t it be a little more conducive to the discourse, if we have to generalise (and it’s kind of unavoidable), if we use an exemplar? A synecdochic analogue, like, for instance, Clover Moore. People voted for her, people for whom she “stands for” within the broader power structure. It is quite legitimate to extrapolate from her electoral edorsement that a large number of people support her and her actions. Identification with, if not responsibility for, those actions have a transitive quality by virtue of that endorsement. Rather than “elites” it is far more descriptive to say “Clover Moore voters” because there is a clear locus of identity. Some of you may need a dictionary. wink

    • Zach says:

      01:08pm | 24/06/11

      Oh come on. This isn’t a hard thing to consider.
      Generally speaking inner city property is hugely expensive. Generally speaking those who attend universities, get high-paying professional jobs (such as law or medicine) can afford the prices of property. Therefore generally those in the suburbs are people without high level tertiary education, or families with children that do not support an inner city lifestyle.
      Those with money resent the whingeing of those without (as much) because they worked very hard for it (I’ve been blessed to find myself in the company of a CEO who literally worked her way up from being a trained nurse for instance). Those without have a sense of being on the outer, therefore resent those with. Those with children have different problems and outlooks to those in the inner city.
      Higher education inherently breeds a different outlook on political happenings, social policy and value systems. I don’t consider it unusual or remarkable or even a great culture divide that those in the inner-city have different political concerns and lifestyles to those in the suburbs.
      Finally, there are some ‘bogan’ suburbs. I don’t mean that with the ‘true australian not pretentious wanker’ connotation it seems to have adopted. There are suburbs with a high incidence of alcohol related crime, poorly dressed residents on the streets etc etc. I don’t think it’s wrong to hold it in derision. In the ‘true’ sense of the word, ‘bogan’ encapsulates a person with no desire to better themselves, no respect for society, something approaching alcoholism and exceptionally poor taste.
      Considering this, I think it’s unsurprising that the suburban and inner-city populations have differing political concerns. I also think a certain amount of resentment (due to both sides being unable to understand one another) is to be expected. Importantly, I feel that whilst there are some suburbs that really do house ‘bogans’, the VAST majority do not and that both the wildly used ‘bogan’ and ‘elitist’ are just slurs from both sides born of the poor understanding of each other (suburban and inner-city residents).
      In short, they house different demographics of people. They will hold different views. This is normal, not some elitist conspiracy to funnel power or terrible class problem within Australia.
      (**This comment is, of its nature, filled with generalisations. I am aware of this, please take the comment as given in that context).

    • Fiddler says:

      02:32pm | 24/06/11

      You summed it up in one sentence “no desire to better themselves, no respect for society, something approaching alcoholism and exceptionally poor taste” IE 20 year old girls with a fat gut who wear tight clothes and think putting some glitter on their face makes them attractive while having the music blaring at 3 in the morning.

    • James says:

      02:49pm | 24/06/11

      I agree 100%, very well said sir smile

    • Tasha says:

      01:19pm | 24/06/11

      Attitudes like ‘Oh my God, you live, where? That’s SO FAR away, I mean that’s in the country, right’ - A comment said to me by somebody who lives in Randwick, about my family living in Dural in The Hills area, are the reason why Sydney is failing to decentralise. If we could get past the taboo of living more than 30 minutes from the CBD, then Sydney could become a fantastic place where you can live anywhere in the greater Sydney area, get a good job and live well. Having lived in the Hills disctrict for most of my life, I consider myself lucky to have a backyard and a comfortable home. I know some would say ‘McMansion - you’re not doing it tough’ and they’d be right. We’re not, although I must admit, I live with my parents because I can’t afford rent. However, the closer we pack ourselves towards living in Newtown, the more expensive it’s going to get to live. I mean, really, is Sydney worth what we’re paying to live in it? I’d say no. No city is.

    • Kika says:

      01:32pm | 24/06/11

      I love inner city living. I actually never want to really have a backyard and a comfortable home. It costs too much. My unit costs me $130.00 a quarter in power, I am not mortgaged up to my eyeballs and I can live close to the city so I don’t have to pay ridiculous fares for transport into work. I don’t have a yard to maintain and cleaning is a quick 1 hour max top to finish.  And I have no kids. So living in my little unit keeps me comfortable and happy too.

      Even if I have kids, I don’t even like the idea of having a house. Townhouse max, not a house. I am the opposite of a claustrophobic - smaller spaces keep me cosy.

    • Drew(Darlinghurst) says:

      01:32pm | 24/06/11

      “The Hills District” ...oh dear god…a fundamentalist Christian.

      Bless !!

    • Hermano says:

      02:46pm | 24/06/11

      Word.

    • Budz says:

      02:49pm | 24/06/11

      Dural is a bit of a treck from the city, but if you work near there, then that’s fine. The key for that is to get jobs outside the city area.

    • Dee says:

      01:28pm | 24/06/11

      And here’s me thinking it just came down to whether you watched A Current Affair or not.

    • Nar says:

      01:30pm | 24/06/11

      Listened to David Nicols on the radio and wow he’s just sucked the humour right out of the Bogan-Hipster divide. Lighten up dude.

      Perhaps it’s time to move on and shine the light on other sub-cultures/sterotypes.

      How about young liberal inner-city trust fund babies, they seem to be forgotten when we speak of the inner city/suburban divide. Do they sleep in designer shirts? Pass the starch please.

      Are we too PC to poke fun at the muzza (ethnic bogan found in clubland) these days?

    • David says:

      01:34pm | 24/06/11

      How can Braodmeadows be full of people who “keep voting, for the basest of reasons, for the likes of John Howard and Tony Abbott”??? If you haven’t ealised you live in one of the most disgustingly ALP areas in the country. Clearly voting for people for the barest of reaons, but I think you have the wrong people.

    • mumof4 says:

      02:17pm | 24/06/11

      Isn’t it funny how we despise the people we don’t understand. Must be some human need to feel superior to…. someone!
      As for me, i love people like me and hate people who think they are better than me for whatever reason because they are obviously up themselves!
      But really, whenever i find myself starting to dislike a particular section of the community, i try to reason myself into tolerance.
      I walk a mile in their shoes - from “To Kill a Mockingbird.” Tolerance guys. Even from you inner city, latte drinking, image conscious know-it-alls. Just kidding. wink

    • AntiBogan says:

      11:25am | 26/06/11

      No, they despise people who negatively effect their lives by playing rap music or ac/dc (depending on the bogan sub-type) at 4am in the morning. People who disrupt their right to peace in their own house by yelling at their kids so loudly that the people next door cannot concentrate on anything. People who will hang out on the street outside their house and kick down all of the trees.

      I am sure you can explain all of those things and if you did walk in their shoes you would understand why they did them. But that is irrelevant. The end result is that they are causing problems for everyone around them and therefore are despised.

    • Samson8or says:

      02:27pm | 24/06/11

      You’re all a bunch of wankers!

    • Snob of Adelaide says:

      02:43pm | 24/06/11

      Give me Norwood, Magill, Kensington Park over Salisbury and Elizabeth any day.

    • Hermano says:

      02:50pm | 24/06/11

      As a recent transplant from an inner-city terrace to Sydney’s hills district, I can relate to this article.
      It’s really not that bad out of the city.  We’ve got a great bowls club with killer meat tray raffles, enough Thai restaurants and curry joints to keep me happy for weeks, express buses to the city for work, nice hills to go cycling in, and we’ve even got a recently opened fancy coffee joint. 
      There are things I miss about the inner city, but a hell of a lot that I don’t.  And yeh, there are just as many bogans and probably more narrow-minded wankers in the city than there are out west.

    • Matt Granfield says:

      03:01pm | 24/06/11

      The dude in the picture is not a hipster. He has a tribal tattoo. He’s a bogan in disguise. Do not be fooled.

    • Kate says:

      03:09pm | 24/06/11

      I think I’m a bit of both. University educated, living in a nice area in the inner suburbs of Melbourne because I like to be close to work and uni. But I grew up in the west and spend pretty much all of my weekend watching footy (and reading). I dislike the ‘F*** off we’re full’ Southern Cross tatt crowd as much as I hate wanky skinny jeans-wearing hipsters. Being both is far more fun.

    • Raven says:

      03:29pm | 24/06/11

      You didn’t know African-Australians existed because you were living in the Inner West?  What?  Who the hell are all those people, including business owners, in Newtown?  Maybe your problem is that you never left your latte-belt mortgaged house. 

      Also, it seems you don’t get humour.  Hipster/bogan warfare is mostly just a series of jokes made by people who equally don’t consider themselves either one.  It’s all tongue-in-cheek.  Get over it.

    • RobM says:

      03:56pm | 24/06/11

      I’m just constantly amazed at the number of short- or long-sighted Hipsters… all those Buddy Holly hipster glasses couldn’t possibly be just clear glass, could they?

    • Richard says:

      04:17pm | 24/06/11

      Look, I’ve proved this conclusively before, but Bogans definitively vote Labor. This is a stone solid fact. I’ve proved it on this website before.  Don’t make me start trawling through the archives now…

    • Chewy says:

      11:41am | 27/06/11

      I agree Richard just look at the safest Liberal seats in the land they are places like Bradfield in Sydneys North Shore. Hardly boganville when you compare constituents to some safe Labor seats like Werriwa. In short there are less Bogans in places like Roseville than Minto or should I say Minno..

    • amanda devine says:

      04:41pm | 24/06/11

      You will never convince each other of anything.  Get a friggen life people!!!

    • M is for Moderation says:

      09:03pm | 24/06/11

      The compromise? The Hills district, Bella Vista etc. in Western Sydney. There we have Western Sydney bogans who take their kids shopping in shorts, a hoodie and no shoes who are determined to rise above their peers by being just as obnoxious as any inner-city or Eastern-suburbanite with their non-fat soy half-cap-half-latte with a shot of saffron-infused sugar-free ambergris syrup and box-like McMansions that are offensive to the eye…

    • Bollocks says:

      09:34pm | 24/06/11

      The premise of this article is ridiculous. How do I know?

      Well, I live in the outer suburbs and, I’m sorry, but it is nothing more than pretence to claim that they are not rife with social problems. It sounds terrible, but a huge portion of the people out here are scum. A trip to the local shops will invariably involve me witnessing at least one incident of a parent screaming at their 3 year child something along the lines of, “Shut the f*** up, you stupid f***ing b****. I’m sick of f***ing hearing from you.” Most nights are punctuated by people doing burnouts on the streets around my house and other people playing doof-doof music until 4am. On more than one occassion fights have broken out on my street between people over drug debts. Violent crime is common.

      Let’s not romanticise the outer suburbs. A very large percentage of people living in them are there because they are awful people unable to hold down jobs or interact with other people appropriately and must therefore subsist on government handouts and public housing. Yes, some people out here are decent hard-working people who have bought a cheap house to get their foot in the property market door. But a lot are not. A lot of people in the outer suburbs are properly described as bogans.

      The idea that ‘boganism’ is a figment of the imagination of latte sipping inner-city hipsters is disingenuous. A bogan is someone who lacks common decency or respect for either themselves or other people. They ignore social standards and are selfish narcissists who don’t have any consideration for others who have to share the same space as them. These people populate the outer suburbs and make life miserable for the rest of us stuck out here with them.

    • Lesley Laurel says:

      09:44pm | 24/06/11

      Boganville and Hipsterville> Are they both suburbs of Canberra or Melbourne?
      Surely, they are not in Perth, Adel;aide o Brisbane??

    • Jimmy says:

      11:07pm | 24/06/11

      I do love a good argument on the internet…

    • amanda says:

      01:36pm | 30/06/11

      Me too, but this ain’t it

    • Peter Thornton says:

      06:42am | 25/06/11

      I agree with what City Girl said above. Generally speaking, many inner city residents come from the sticks. They make a beeline for the inner city areas in their mistakenly elevated belief that they’e experiencing the sum total of what a city has to offer. Bully for them…
      Kika’s response to Brian was also a comment I found myself agreeing with. I have met several superior acting English or Kiwi transplants, mostly who come from very provincial backgrounds. The phrases “a small country town called New Zealand” or, “England, where everyone is related…”  come in handy when the afore mentioned types start getting a little too cheeky.

    • Tim says:

      08:18am | 25/06/11

      They are both as bad as each other.  Both ignorant of everything except their own self interests.

    • Jan Jones says:

      09:13am | 25/06/11

      I love reading this section of the news.  It seems its not about commenting on a particular article, its about being as nasty as possible about co-contributers.  Certainly livens up my quiet retirement.

    • Gail says:

      10:03am | 25/06/11

      I have defineately noticed areas of bogans around Brisbane,the further you get away from Brisbane the people turn out to be more sociable,better behaved,less pig headed and no chips on their shoulders.

    • Tommyboy says:

      10:09am | 25/06/11

      What’s that old saying:  Live and Let Live

    • marco says:

      10:26am | 25/06/11

      BOGANS!!!!....Have you ever been to Geelong on a school day around 4.20pm, I have never ever met such a bunch of real bogans in my whole life…

    • AntiBogan says:

      11:56am | 25/06/11

      Bogans are a disgusting plight on humanity. Well, actually, I am sure they have their place in performing manual labor tasks, but it would be nice if they lived in a separate area to the civilised members of society. I have lived in two areas - the heartland of bogans, and one of the richest places in Australia. There are very clear differences between bogans (who, as we all know, may also be cashed-up bogans) and other people:

      Bogans use their car horn while their car is still in their garage (or front lawn, as is usually the case). They use it as a form of communication to tell the person inside the house that they must hurry up.

      Bogans mostly dress in surf clothing, even when going to weddings.

      At lunchtime, all 60 KFCs in the area are full of people.

      Bogans don’t actually talk - they yell. Their sentences consist of 1 swear word to every 3 words. Usually their swearing is directed at their 5 kids of 600 different pets.

      They usually have at least one dog that will bark all day and night. Walking down a street in a bogan suburb, pretty much all you can hear are dogs barking, domestic abuse, and cars doing burnouts.

      Bogans are generally more inclined to be violent.

      Their car of choice is of course either a ford or a holden and the more noise pollution it causes, the better. Silence is the enemy of the bogan.

      Rugby league is usually their prefered sport. I think there have been statistics released that show crime drops by a significant amount during a rugby league game.

      Bogans have no planning functionality. It appears to be a function that is missing from their brains. All decisions are made on the spot.

      A bogan’s main source of information is A Current Affair and talkback radio.

      The most active time of day for a bogan is 4am, at which time they have their sub-woofer so loud that is shakes all houses within a 10 mile radius.

      Beer bottles are thrown on the footpath out the front once their rubbish bins have been filled with KFC packaging or coke bottles.

      Bogans spend most of their time on their porch, looking at the bitumen road while stroking their pet stafford shire terrior and sculling beer. At other times, they are inside watching Australia’s Got Talent, rugby league, of A Current Affair on television.

      The most common form of exercise amongst bogans is dirt bike riding. I can see why, as the bikes make a lot of noise.

      There are many more points I could add to this list, but unfortunately, I have run out of time.

    • Leroy says:

      04:34pm | 25/06/11

      Thank God for that.

    • Barry says:

      01:44pm | 25/06/11

      Predictable - News.Ltd preaching to their already converted readership - the bogans that is. Hipsters would never read this crap except ironically.

    • Reasonable Ronny says:

      04:30pm | 25/06/11

      Hipster Jokes:

      How many hipsters did it take to change a lightglobe?
      It was pretty exclusive…

      Why did the hipster cross the road?
      Oh, you haven’t heard….

      A hipster walks into a bar you haven’t heard of before…

      But on topic:
      - I think everyone is pretty happy doing what they are doing. But if I have to make a generality, I’d say that hipsters care more about bogans than bogans do about hipsters.

      As someone who is looking to buy a first place (late 20s), I am going to be leaning more towards the hipster inner-city areas. But if all goes well, I’ll most likely move a bit further out in a few years and have a family.

      I’m down with bogans and in-betweeners and hipsters. Hipsters are just a newer and easier target to make fun of because they make fun of themselves a fair bit. But sometimes I don’t think hipsters don’t get the irony of using irony as an excuse when criticised.

      ‘Oh you’re heading to a new restaurant I’ve never heard of before? Being into things before they are cool is so last year…’

      If I was to respond to this comment (after re-reading it), I’d summarise myself as a hipster-hater. Probably true. But hating on bogans is perhaps seen as a worse thing to do than hating on hipsters. bit of a hypocrisy.

    • E. Leet says:

      01:41pm | 26/06/11

      I must be a Bog-ster.
      I like the KFC restaurant that you’ve never heard of.

    • biscuit says:

      11:47am | 27/06/11

      I hated hipsters before it was mainstream….

    • Brett says:

      05:50pm | 25/06/11

      Nigel, if posting this is an apology for being such an elitist asshole when you lived closer to the city: we forgive you.

    • Typical Perthite says:

      10:24am | 26/06/11

      Move to Perth - we don’t have these inter-suburb class issues cos’ everyone here’s a bogan. Our idea of class is wearing lace-up ugg boots, doing the top button up on your flannel shirt and making sure the Commodore’s mags aren’t dirty.

    • Oracle says:

      11:39am | 26/06/11

      As a road cyclist; a bogan is anybody that drives past me in such a way as to intimidate me by: yelling something unintelligible, driving at my speed and herding me off the road, throwing food items at me or spraying a liquid onto me.
      These people do seem to be of a certain “type”.

    • beno says:

      03:39pm | 26/06/11

      a hipster would never have a tribal tattoo, that piece of body branding is championed by the bogan

    • Jon says:

      12:43am | 27/06/11

      Don’t see many Hipsters in places like Cabramatta, Blacktown, Liverpool, Bankstown, Punchbowl, Hurstville etc. They say they love multiculturalism, but by this they mean they like multicultural food choices in the white inner burbs. And when one of their areas becomes majority non white(eg Ashfield), they leave in droves and house prices fall. I personally have no problem with them, but they just need to be more honest about their views. As an Asian Australian, I find the whiteness of the inner suburbs quite racist. Sydney is sort of like an apartheid city and the inner suburbs need to stop fencing themselves off. If you’re so pro refugee and multiculturalism you should allow more people of colour to live in the inner suburbs instead of pushing them into lives of poverty and resultant crime in the west(or letting them in but only to open a restaurant).  I find the whole right/left wing debate as nothing but white people trying to compete against each other. We need a political party that represents people of colour in this country.

    • VicB7 says:

      08:03am | 27/06/11

      It not a location but a culture that only cars about themselves and instantself satisfaction regardless of the cost .  Some of the biggest bogans live in the eastern suburbs.  They are in some cases far worse because have the money to be even more stupid.  There is certain defaults .  Anyone that wears tracky dackss in summer , thong in the middle of winter , drives and SUV in the city , Smokes.  The list is starting to grow bigger.

    • ohwiseleftie says:

      08:57am | 27/06/11

      well I grew up in Campbelltown, and now live in a designer pad in the inner east. I have had quite a journey mapping both sorrow and success…

      I see the same around me now, as I did when I grew up in Campbelltown.

      A mix of people, mostly who are ignorant of who they were, and thus highly judgemental of others, based upon some societal imposed “norm”. I guess we all want to at least feel we fit in.

      Bogans shouting “get it inta ya” and an eastern suburbs wanker shouting Verve Cliquot on their credit card, are the same beast, just dressed differently.

      The only real difference is insight and wisdom. I have met some truly extraordinary people in both Campbelltown and the inner east..

      Although I must say, whilst I do pronounce the “pb” in Campbelltown, they do not pronounce the “pb” in Camelltown…

    • Jewels says:

      11:29am | 27/06/11

      My experience is the same @ohwiseleftie - and I got to say, my greatest disappointments are reserved for those who have experienced both sides - and tend to exert the greatest amount of dismissmiveness and disrespect. People are very quick to forget where they have come from - whether its because of shame or simply confusion about who and what they are

      But conversly, “out west” the prejudices exist too - Ive been told to my face Im a sell out for moving close to the city. Simple truth is, I got tired of commuting 4 hours a day!

      As someone who spent her early years growing up on the fringes of Sydney - this whole argument is intolerant and stupid - and the ignorance truly goes both ways

      People should venture outside of their bubbles and experience how wonderful and truly diverse this place is - instead of sneering at, and making disrespectful judgements of people and things that have little or no knowledge or experience about… you might be suprised to find you’re not that different after all

    • Linda says:

      09:29am | 27/06/11

      All I understand from this article is that the author hates the Liberal Party

    • Scott says:

      08:08am | 29/06/11

      Having lived in inner western Sydney suburb of Newtown and also in the southern beach suburb of Cronulla I have found that intolerence is alive and doing well in both areas. To say there is little intolerance in the inner west of Sydney incorrect. It is doing fine in both areas.

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