IN a country the size of Australia, thinking big comes with the territory.

Story stays the same: A protester at a rally in 2002 / AAP

Not surprisingly Kevin Rudd proudly embraced that concept recently when he proclaimed his belief in a “big Australia” and backed plans for the nation’s population to surge to 35 million by 2049.

The populate or perish policy is nothing new, of course. Under various guises, it has driven growth in Australia for more than 200 years.

Rudd’s support came after Treasury chief Ken Henry outlined a golden age of economic prosperity to 2050 and beyond, hand in hand with rapid population growth.

The Prime Minister added: “The century ahead stands to be the greatest century of economic growth and nation-building in Australian history.”

A similar grand plan was widely embraced in the post-World World 2 era, but this 1950s attitude is beginning to lose its lustre in the 21st century in the face of climate change and immigration concerns.

The chatter on reader forums of online news site in the past week appears to confirm this.

Jonathan of NSW wrote on News.com.au: “I cannot understand this obsession with prosperity being directly linked with population growth. There are already too many people on the planet and in Australia, but all we hear is that we need to increase our population dramatically if we are to survive. This mindset is a slippery slope to oblivion!”

Robert of Sydney added: “The bigger our population the less land and resources per person - that’s a decline in quality of life … Just where does Rudd propose to get the “green” energy from to support these additional people? Where will the water come from, bearing in mind we don’t have enough now?”

The current debate about what to do with a new wave of boatpeople seeking asylum in Australia did not escape many people’s thoughts when it came to the issue of overcrowding.

Didums of Brisbane commented on The Courier-Mail site: “Of course Rudd is happy about increasing the population. He’s made his contribution by opening the doors to anyone who wants to illegally enter Australia any time they like.”

Lobby Lobster of Kedron Brook in Queensland threw in a call to abolish the baby bonus: “I wish the Government would stop paying people to breed.”

Infrastructure such as health facilities, roads, transport and schools will need to be dramatically expanded if population continues to surge. To meet this growing demand, Rudd last week went on to propose expanding the role of the Federal Government in urban planning.

Lenny of Melbourne, on news.com.au, offered qualified support: “I’d support it if it were done right. The lack of adequate urban planning is responsible for much of the housing woes. But concentrate on high-density dwellings close to the city. Leave out the climate clap trap.”

But Peter of WA was not convinced, writing on Perth Now: “With the problems the world is now facing, all brought about by overpopulation, can anyone tell me why we as a country should just blindly follow Rudd along to his idea of a wonderful new Australia? They don’t even maintain the infrastructure now, so what will it be like trying to support 40 million-plus?”

Michael Lardell of Prospect thought Rudd’s support for a population surge was being erroneously driven by economic factors, commenting on Adelaide Now: “Population growth is not inevitable. It is government policy encouraged by the developers and others who benefit from building and furnishing of houses. It increases overall GDP but actually decreases per capita GDP - so it is making individual Australians poorer while benefiting big business.”

A number of readers called for a wider discussion on population policy, such as Debra Henry of Thornlands, Queensland on abc.net.au: “I make no apology for asserting that, as Prime Minister, Kevin Rudd has an obligation to consider the informed concerns of others and to involve the people of Australia in debate and decision-making on this matter, rather than simply lead us down his perceived yet unproven path to population-induced prosperity.”

Until now, few political leaders have wanted to talk about population growth targets and their ramifications. It seems Rudd has opened the door to a debate many Australians believe we must have.

59 comments

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    • John A Neve says:

      04:57am | 02/11/09

      “Populate or perish”, should read populate and perish.
      The world’s population is ever increasing, there are camps around the owrld with hundreds of thousands of displaced persons in them.

      We have a society that is built almost entirely on growth! Is this really possible? Can we have continual growth?

      Every time I read articles like this, I think opf Soylent Green.

    • Paul says:

      05:17am | 02/11/09

      Labor and Liberals haven’t been able to show any vision, or competent planning for the last 20 years, why should we support an accelerated plan of incompetence and bumbling for the next 40 years? Sounds like a sure recipe for ruining Australia.

    • westie says:

      06:52am | 02/11/09

      The old banner headline Populate or Perish needs to be rethought.

      The pressures already evident from unchecked global population growth suggest that we should now support the slogan Populate and Perish.

    • Paul says:

      07:29am | 02/11/09

      Look at the littany of trashed rivers; destroyed, salty and declining farmlands (Sydney Basin, Murray Darling etc); spiralling homeless, prison, kids-in-poverty numbers; city liveability and unaffordability; trashing small coastal towns etc. And our biggest city Sydney can spend a Billion dollars a kilometre on some roads and not even have a half decent or reliable public transport! If our major political parties were going for a job interview as ‘Future National Planner and Strategist’, the interviewers would look at their CV’s of decades of stupid decisions and monumental stuff ups and laugh at them. So should we!  Who says prosperity makes Aussies happier - I thought we were happier, more innovative, more content, more friendly 20-30 years ago. It’s just a blind bling growth religon. This is about Labor and their corporate mates selfishly trying to squeeze a few more bucks out of a groaning island.

    • iansand says:

      07:54am | 02/11/09

      Growth is necessary to increase the pool of prosperity.  Without growth the prosperity units remain static.  That means that, for someone less prosperous to become prosperous they have to acquire someone else’s prosperity units as no more are being produced.  This is, ultimately, destabilising for society.  It means social stratification as the prosperous do what is necessary to retain their prosperity and, incidentally, deprive other people of the opportunity to become prosperous.

      It works on all scales, from the personal to the international.  It would be a good cycle to break but as far as I know no one has come up with a workable scheme.  The cold hard facts of economics prevent it. (Did I just write “facts” and “economics” in the same sentence without a negative?  Is this a record?)

    • Victoria says:

      08:16am | 02/11/09

      When I first heard this boat people story of the lot recenlty taken to Indonesia, I thought “bring them here” but I resent the blackmail element to all of this. Today they were saying , via a mobile phone conversation a 9 month old child was not given milk by the Australian crew. I don’t believe it. Most Aussie men are soft hearted and would never deprive a baby of milk. Let them stay in Indonesia Mr Rudd or send them back from whence they came. If they are trying to rort the sytem even before they get into Aus, what will they do when they get here. As for the population growing, well , get Aussies employed first, make sure we have enough services to handle more people and enough water to cover all our needs, and I am sure most Aussies would not deprive anyone of a home here.

    • Craig Lambie says:

      08:18am | 02/11/09

      Hear Hear!! I couldn’t agree more!!
      Failing Governments, a Health system squeezed to the max! 1000 people a week are moving into Melbourne, an already overcrowded, under housed city!
      As a property owner, you have to say… Yaah!.... but really it is not real growth, not really adding value, it comes back to basic Economics…. increase Demand, with a slower increase in Supply = higher prices.
      We are seeing Urban Sprawl, no investment in Mobility, Terrible planning, Quality of Life degrading. Happiness decreasing rapidly.  Stress Increasing.
      Why don’t we start measuring our success as a country based on “Happiness” like number of working hours, number of youth suicide, violence/ crime etc. instead of GDP growth.

    • John A Neve says:

      08:19am | 02/11/09

      Iansand,
      Talks of “prosperity units”, I’m not sure I know what they are. But, if they are what I think they are?
      This in my view makes our stuation even worse, because these newly created “prosperity units” go, for the most part, to the already prosperious!!!

    • watty says:

      09:23am | 02/11/09

      Rudd should quit the “whiteman dreaming” and concentrate on more immediate problems such as health care,lack of hospital beds, better care for our old age pensioners,studying
      other countries’ failures (Spain)with solar and windpower before committing Australia.

      There is plenty to keep Rudd occupied right now without even contemplating another 10,000,000 new residents.

    • iansand says:

      09:30am | 02/11/09

      Prosperity unit is a thing I maked up all by myself.  GNP, dollars, assets, whatever.  However you choose to measure economic success.

      You are right that the rich get richer, but if the pool is always expanding the poor can always get a toe in.  It is much, much harder if the pool remains at the same level.  You have to persuade someone to leave before you can jump in.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      09:38am | 02/11/09

      Let’s go by the numbers and compare a few periods in our recent history.

      1970 to 2009 - around 40 years, approx population 13mil to 22mil = growth rate 69%

      2009 to 2049 - around 40 years, approx population 22mil to 35Mil = growth rate 59%

      Mr PM - based just on recent history it’s going to happen without your “big Australia” vision. You can put your feet up - no need to do anything here it is just going to happen.
      Also -

      The Prime Minister added: “The century ahead stands to be the greatest century of economic growth and nation-building in Australian history.” And Ken Henry (here we go again) outlined a golden age of economic prosperity to 2050 and beyond, hand in hand with rapid population growth.

      Rapid population growth AND golden age of economic prosperity?????

      OK, let compare against a period where there was **REAL** economic growth and nation-building

      1946 to 1986 - around 40 years, approx population 7mil to 16mil = growth rate 129%

      We are blessed that our PAST leaders had the vision TO plan AND participate AND see their building initiatives materialise. We now benefit from the hard and torturous work of our forefathers.

      Based on the above I do not see how anything – of any significance OR SUBSTANCE - will be achieved in the next 40 years. You have inspired me Mr PM.

      Who is pulling whose leg and why do I have to put up with the dribble.  Seems to be a lot of talk and talk is very cheap.

    • Russell says:

      09:40am | 02/11/09

      To John A Neve, top comment: Every time I read contributions like yours to stories like these, I think of Pol Pot.
      Come on you population doomsayers, tell us what your “solution” is. And yes, you will shy away from murderous tyrannies. But perhaps stagnant, dying cultures with their economies in permanent recession might appeal?
      Don’t hold back now, explain. You are usually never short of a word when you are telling us there are just too many damn people!

    • Paul says:

      10:13am | 02/11/09

      @Russell If you google the stats, most Western Countries populations would’ve naturally declined significantly by 2050 due to falling birthrates and dying boomers anyway.  It’s about being smart and sustainable not trashing natural wealth and ‘assets’ like rivers, fresh water sources, forests and prime agricultural land like we did greedily and foolishly in the 20th century. Boatpeople: As pacific countries get flooded by rising oceans and overpopulated 10,000s plus will be heading here.

    • Trish says:

      10:39am | 02/11/09

      The welfare bill for working Australians is already crippling and the health systems are buckling under the strain of lack of resources and staff. Water - the most essential of our resources is a concern for most States now - it doesn’t grow on trees does it? How can we become bigger without going under? By all means, allow refugees and educate and train them so that they can contribute to their new society but do it so that it doesn’t overwhelm an already strained system.

    • John A Neve says:

      11:03am | 02/11/09

      Russell @10:40am
      Before we interfered there was a process called Natural Selection, most animals still live by it., we don’t.

      I note Russell you failed to answer any of my questions! Too hard were they?
      Sorry to say Russell, those that think like you will do this world more harm than Pol Pot.

    • Paul says:

      11:10am | 02/11/09

      The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing wrong and expecting a different outcome. This is where Liberals and Labor are at recycling 20th century ideas and policy. The smart 2050 countries will be the inventers, the creative industries (a big and fast growing Aussie sector) that own the intellectual properties but base factories overseas thereby using other countries populations to produce wealth. (And smartly super-conserving natural resources like Japan does currently) If Australia can get past the chain-dragging Rudds (ok the broadband could be a good idea - if he doesn’t ‘Chinese censor’ it) and Howards digging-stuff-up addiction and having fossil fuel companies dictating policy to politicans, we can be prosperous with a smaller population.

    • Mark says:

      12:32pm | 02/11/09

      If Kevin Rudd wasnt a Christian he would be able to engage in a a dsicussion about population size but alas his superstitious belief set makes him think he will be burned in hell for all eternity if he encourages population reduction.  Whats your view on contraception Kev, are you following the Pope’s line?

    • Andrea says:

      12:51pm | 02/11/09

      Population growth is never a good thing for an established country like Australia - take that comment as being both our current situation and us white fellas arriving in Australia 200 years ago.  There are finite resouces in our country and we’ve already experienced water shortages in 3/8 capital cities, anyone want to guess what that would be like in 10 years time with even a 25% increase in populations in those ciities?  There will be riots and civil war; not to mention the toll on quality of life.  Immigration growth and natural population growth is not something our country is able to cope with; let the boomers die off but we don’t need to feel like we have to replace them with huge quantitis of new arrivals or babies.

    • Barb says:

      01:00pm | 02/11/09

      Mark,

      The white Christian birthrate in Australia is well below replacement level - it’s not Kevin’s Christianity that causes him to want a big Australia, it’s his desire for a multicultural Australia that causes him to want an increase in population. If it wasn’t for immigration, our population would be declining because the birthrate for whites is about 1.75 per woman and 2.11 babies per woman is needed to atleast sustain the population, got it?

    • Russell says:

      01:06pm | 02/11/09

      Thanks John @ 12.03. No I didn’t answer your questions, not because they were too hard, but I won’t here but because people who quote “natural selection” at me as way of controlling population growth are just way too scary. Now I wish I had used a pseudonym.
      Paul is on the right track, but again, zealous people telling us there are too many of us frighten me.

    • Ollie says:

      01:24pm | 02/11/09

      I don’t think that there is any easy answer, if there was it’d probably be done already. My view is that our population is aging, we need more tax payers to pay for the health care and to look after the current batch of oldies and for the future oldies. You don’t get more tax payers by paying people to have kids infact you decrease the amount of tax payers. Not only do you increase the cost of welfare you decease everything else like water, food and housing. I guess this does have an added benifit in that the increased cost of goods increases the amount of taxes that the governement gets from taxing everything like they do, whether they are indirect taxes or not. Obviously like most western countries our economy is built around eternal growth, it’s not sustainable but we need to either change that, which won’t happen or grow and increase infrastructure to accomodate the larger population. I am all for imigration but the issue I have is that genuine imigrants have a long wait where as these boat people just jump the queue and violate International law by doing so. I say let more legal people in and increase the working age to 17 as these young people exploited by many companies do not make enough money to pay any tax on what they earn and hence are a drain on everything and take jobs away from adults who without a job collect the dole and are also a drain on the economy.

    • John A Neve says:

      01:46pm | 02/11/09

      Russell @ 1406.
      There is nothing scary about ‘natural selection”, what is far more scary is mankinds interference with nature.  What we are now seeing is the result.
      All our natural resources are finite and we are using them at an abnormal rate.

      I have stated this many times before, but if we cured all ilness, curbed obesity, stopped all wars and banned alcohol. There wouldn’t be enough room to lie down, we’d all have to spend our lives standing up.

    • Rick says:

      02:20pm | 02/11/09

      One thing everyone is missing is WATER. We have huge water demands now with 22 million and our river system is suffering. If we double that, where are these huge Australian cities going to get water from for all these extra people?

    • Andrew says:

      02:25pm | 02/11/09

      From doing a recent thesis on population growth we currently have to many people on the planet to support sustainable living. With a UN mandate back in I think 1968-69 it was voted on that all countries should have the freedom to breed and this was won from all the poorer countries selecting this right.
      This comes from cultural and religious beliefs and suppose the lack of television - haha. But overall as more people populate the planet we have a decline in resources, availablity for housing, our oceans are currently being depleted faster than they can be renewed, the surface of the planet is becoming more arid as forests receed and popultion increased. As farming intensity increases through chemical means we also find soil salinity increasing. Its really a catch 22 situation, the more people we have, the great the environmental damage (eg more cars, waste) But many people of the world just want to live for the now.

    • John says:

      02:31pm | 02/11/09

      In my humble opinion, Rudd is a part of the New World Order elites that currently govern Europe, like Brown in England (and Blair before him) who want to eliminate the white dominance in every nation.  Australia is on the hit list too.  Mere numbers, without any regard to race, culture, crime, housing, medical care, etc. is pure insanity.

    • A Richards says:

      02:55pm | 02/11/09

      If we let the wrong type of people in the only thing that will grow will be the welfare queue. Then we may start seeing the likes of 50% tax on incomes of more than $50,000 per annum like they have in Belgium and similarly in the U.K. I can’t see how that will benefit Australia.

    • Wally says:

      02:59pm | 02/11/09

      Labor is big on environmental impact statements before anything is done.Where is the statement for this proposal which clearly will impact my quality of life.

    • Sean says:

      03:02pm | 02/11/09

      Its insulting these idiots who say the First fleet Convict slaves are the same as the new Illegal immigrants paying crininals to get into Australia.
      1. First fleet passengers where made to work and live in terrible slave like conditions
      2. First Fleet did not suck the money out of taxpayers
      3. First Fleet where prisoners and in no way where looked after like our government looks after these new crime gang funding illegals
      4. Over $2 Billion uassie diollars is wasted on this problem each year. isnt that money better of helping our older Australian, Aborignees, healthcare, Police, Education, Sick and elderly, Disabled, War Widows….

      SHUT THE GATE!

    • Rohan says:

      03:09pm | 02/11/09

      This is some of the shoddiest reporting i’ve read for a while. what do the boat people have to do with population growth? a) they’re not ‘illegal’, under international law every person has the right to seek assylum b) they make up only a small percentage (less than 10%) of the total LEGAL influx of refugees into australia (most arriving by plane as part of the ‘queue’) and c) far far more people enter legally on tourist visas, overstay and slip under the radar (including Brits) than boat people. We need population growth because we simply aren’t having enough kids, and we have an aging population. The fact is Australians live better than most people on the planet, yet we sit here fat and happy and tell ourselves that we’re full. The impact of boat people is virtually insignificant to our population, and the debate on population growth is a completely separate issue to boat people. To the writer: try reading up on journalism… try presenting the people with facts, rather than sensationalist drivel. Try talking to an expert rather than copying and pasting a news.com.au message board.

    • Brett says:

      03:17pm | 02/11/09

      Australia is nowhere near over populated. To suggest Australia is over populated is absurd.
      The problem is migrants flock to city areas, and form mini ethic exclusive cities.
      Integration is the key to all this. The other problem is lack of investment at all levels of Government on infrastructure. Why can you buy a house so much cheaper in the USA, or Asia where the population is ten times ours.
      Then the other issue is the types of people that come here. Are they bringing their violence and hatred with them. Will they use Australia as their platform for Political or Religious agenda’s. Will they protest and riot in the streets for what they see as injustice of their previous country.
      You want assistance in Australia then assist those is the regional areas by helping their economies.

    • Paul says:

      03:19pm | 02/11/09

      @russell To clarify: there are to many of us for our current*destructive lifestyle and we are capable of a better society and economy and technologies and wealth.  (Perhaps we have been spoiled by ‘easy’ resources etc) That’s hardly radical or zealotry. I also object to this one option of growth at all costs, which is a blind religion,  and the limited political choices in a ‘democracy’ where you can choose between 30 chocolate bars but only 1.5 political parties. Is that all Australia can come up with? It’s a political crisis or stagnation or lack of imagination - at it’s root. In part I agree with John, many times it’s hard to see that politicans are representing OUR interests.

    • JJ says:

      03:33pm | 02/11/09

      Rudd shows how much of a bad dud he is on this issue. On one hand he proclaims to be some kind of climate change crusader and on the other hand he promotes a “big Australia”. Well Rudd, you can’t have it both ways I’m afraid. Having a bigger population is the worst thing for climate change and the environment in general. Australia should look at keeping the population to the level it is now. 35 million is ridiculous and Rudd should hang his head in shame for supporting it.

    • Karl says:

      04:13pm | 02/11/09

      It appears we have two choices.  Make the population growth halt or slow down significantly at the same time creating stagnated economies.  On the other hand, keep spitting out babies and increasing world population until something gives (most likely the environment).  Foget the astrophysics theories on the end of the world due to our sun exploding.  Mankind will be long gone before any of that takes effect.

    • AJ says:

      05:02pm | 02/11/09

      Kevin Rudd and his followers will not be affected by the increase in over-population,  Very populated countries such as USA, and Britain have a huge underclass which is neccessary for the economies that Rudd and his like would like to practise.  The rich do not have to live with the poor and poverty will not affect them -just like Blair was unconcerned with his policies and now look at Britain.  All natural resources are becoming more limited no more than water here in Australia and our infrastructure here is not going ahead in front of the shortages and other problems we have.

    • TB says:

      05:09pm | 02/11/09

      Paul@4:19 has it right on the button. Our current population levels are only unsustainable because of the unsustainable nature of our society. The fact is we live in a society that is inherently wasteful and inefficient, and as our population grows, the problems associated with that waste are simply going to balloon out of control. We’re drowning in our own garbage, and people are touting population control as a legitimate solution? I’d laugh if it wasn’t such a serious issue.

      Plus the idea that “boat people” (one of the ugliest pejoratives conjured up by Australians) are a factor in population growth is also laughable. In 2008 we had approximately 200 “boat people” arrive in Australia, yet in that same period we had approximately 11,000 refugees arrive *legally* by plane as part of resettlement programs (during a period when the government is actively DECREASING our intake of legitimate refugees). Two hundred people is not a “flood” - it’s barely a trickle, for crying out loud. This latest brouhaha over 70-odd people is media sensationalism at its worst. The media ought to be ashamed of themselves for stirring up such a hornet’s nest, and the public should be equally ashamed of swallowing this hogwash hook, line and sinker.

    • Johnny says:

      05:25pm | 02/11/09

      35 millions ? event now the price of all agri culture products such as vegies and fruits keeps raising year by year, because there is more demand than supply. At the same time goverment put more more taxes on middle class people. I can not imagine how the goverment would be able to feed 35 millions australians in next couple decades. Remember, 85 percent australian continent is not fertile. Other 15 percent decade by decade is getting desertification because of drought. May God Help Us and open the eyes of our Polies.

    • Matt says:

      05:43pm | 02/11/09

      I don’t want to be a Malthusian, but it is clear that at any given level of technology, the earth has a certain carrying capacity.  The big question is how close we are to that carrying capacity, or have we already exceeded it.  I think it’s time to ease off on the breeding a little, and religions that are anti-contraception need to take a good look at themselves.  We talk about halving our carbon emissions by 2050 (or whatever), but that is rarely discussed in the light of population growth.  Halving carbon by 2050 while population grows from 22 to 35 million, means dropping our individual carbon footprints to 30% of current levels.  We basically have threee options.  1. we can perish, 2. we can radically change our lifestyle, 3. we can reduce our numbers.  I vote for option 3 as the best option for quality of life.

    • Matt says:

      05:47pm | 02/11/09

      The real issue here is that the baby boomers, who currently control our parliament, are worried that there wont by enough younger people to fund their lavish retirement lifestyles.

    • TB says:

      06:34pm | 02/11/09

      Matt, it saddens me that you listed “option 2”, and then went ahead and chose option 3, which is a horrendously ass-backwards answer to what is a serious problem. It really isn’t a solution either, as eventually population levels will rise again. Then what? We start culling people like we cull kangaroos? A global one-child policy? The only realistic solution is option 2 - it’ll probably require a complete overhaul of our socioeconomic system, culture and value systems, but it is the only realistic long-term solution.

    • logic first says:

      06:55pm | 02/11/09

      its a big land but 90% of it is uninhabitable, and cannot be used for food production, or anything else, as its too remote, and to provide even the most basic infrastructure in remote uninhabited areas would cost trillions.  Then there is the issue of water - not really enough for the 22 million already here, hence most of the population already live under water restrictions, and Global Warming will probably make most of this continent even drier.  We simply cant continue to grow - its time to limit population growth, and the place to start the limitation is with immigration.

    • Mario says:

      08:21pm | 02/11/09

      The world needs to focus on reducing population!! 
      Australia, now has an attitude almost in every country in the World, that Australia, will let anybody in!!  Its sad but true..  These people know Australia is soft and they Know how to get in and get what they want!!

    • Brett says:

      08:27pm | 02/11/09

      Logic First, that is just a load of rubbish. 90% of Australia is not uninhabitable.
      We can take 100 times our current population.
      For water we use desalination. (how do you think Submariners stay at sea for 12 months) For power we use Nuclear Power. No need for oil once Nuclear power is established. Have one level of Government (reduce spending).
      Increase tax on big companies and banks. Make Classism Illegal.
      Forbid the Catholic Church from banning contraception. Forbid all Religion from infringing on Human Rights. Ban expression of religion in Schools.
      Encourage Migration and Business into Regional Areas and Build Infrastructure in Regional Areas. Reduce fuel tax and company tax in Regional Areas to encourage factories and industry and infrastructure and population there. Open residential land blocks in Regional Areas with no stamp duty payable on acquisition. 12% Max Income Tax if you live more than 500klms from a Capital City.
      If I didn’t have such a good job I could sort this country out in 12 months!!

    • Daniel says:

      09:17pm | 02/11/09

      When you realise that everyone goes flocks to Sydney, and no other part of Australia, it doesn’t matter that Australia is a big country, we’re overpopulated because everyone goes to ONE area. Increasing the population as we’re doing now without any real plan is just madness

    • Johnny says:

      09:21pm | 02/11/09

      To Brett. I think you are dreaming. Your solutions only makes things worst. Dont you know that Desalination requires a lot of energy and could damage the environment. It could make our ocean more acid and salty because we retrievieng fresh water from it. Nuclear power also introduces new problem. Do you know that nuclear power plans also produce radioactive waste. How would you keep the waste any way ? underground ? it would take another billions dollars spent just build save place underground to contain those wastes. And offering 12 % tax income to people who live 500 km from capital city is your big dream. It requires super mag lev train like in Japan or France to travel that distance. And those kind of transportation requires a lot of energy and money. So, i have a picture in my mind that you could create bigger catastrophics within your 12 months promises. Your not that genius as you think you are.

    • Russell says:

      09:24pm | 02/11/09

      Gosh Marcus, did you know you were going to get a comment thread like this one? Reading it has one of the most depressing internet experiences I’ve had recently. I’ll avoid looking at any such topics again on Punch, at least

    • COF says:

      09:37pm | 02/11/09

      For every Malthusian born, there are 1 million humans that never see the light of day.

      Malthusian thinking is increasing at a rate of 25% per year, therefore Australia’s population in 2050, rather than being 35 million, will actually be:

      NEGATIVE 525 billion!

      The figures speak for themselves friends. I’m glad I didn’t fall victim to a Malthusian though, I like my life.

    • King george king says:

      10:13pm | 02/11/09

      Wow How selfish most people here are, I’m alright Peter Bugger Paul as my dad would say. Mega rich first world country with resources and land to spare crying about doing the right thing for fellow man. The people who are prepared to risk all in a chance for a better life show application and desire to improve. I can’t imagine an Australia without the many from europe who came for asylum after both world wars and enriched our culture and prosperity. Given the spectacular results of over 200 yrs of migration let us not forget where we have all come from and embrace our share of the load for everyone on the planet.

    • B Hayfield says:

      11:59pm | 02/11/09

      Until we have the infrastructure we need we can not accommodate too many more people.  When was the last time Rudd was stuck in a traffic jam, squashed on an over crowded train, in a crowded class room, on a hospital waiting list and/or with no electricity/water?  Sort this out first and look after Australians.  Why do these economic migrants (asylum seekers with phones and holiday brochures?) have more rights than us?  Permanent visas make 1 economic migrant quickly become 4 or 5 with family visas (not to mention dodgy student visas and over stayers).  Rudd is changing the face of Australia forever, WAKE UP RUDD.

    • lee says:

      01:28am | 03/11/09

      yeah yeah… and all the above
      I would like to know if the reporter who threw the mobile phone to the boat people will be charged for infiltrating the security of the Oceanic Viking.
      This ship is an Australian customs vessel and as such a floating piece of Australian Sovereignty. I say CHARGE HIM for breaching security!!!
      Why is there such a profound lack in this vessels security?  I think it’s time to sack those on board send in the army and throw these people off either in Indonesia where they left from after living there for some time or take them to their country of origin/birth Sirilanka(sp) How dare these people hold My county and countrymen to ransom.! 
      I’m disgusted with those who would willy nilly take these people in. You stupid do gooders’ shreding the fabric of our society. Every voice out there who are for letting people walk in and dictate terms should prepare spare rooms in their houses and get 2nd and 3rd jobs to support these people and take them in. I don’t want my hard earned tax dollars paying for them!!!
      If I went to sea in a leaky boat and told the Indonesians or chinese or yanks or brits,  “Hey I’ve arrived and I want to live in your land and in time I will bring the rest of my family out , and there is nothing you can do about it !” I wouldn’t be received well, and in some parts of the world I would more than likely be SHOT for doing so.
      Wake Up Australia for our sake!!!

    • lee says:

      01:43am | 03/11/09

      King george king says:11:13pm | 02/11/09

      ‘Wow How selfish most people here are, I’m alright Peter Bugger Paul as my dad would say.” Too bloody right!!
      “Mega rich first world country with resources and land to spare crying about doing the right thing for fellow man. ” As a nation we are very giving too giving at imes and now boat peopl think its their right to TAKE and make demands
      . ” I can’t imagine an Australia without the many from europe who came for asylum after both world wars and enriched our culture and prosperity.” They were atleast vetted and very few wrong do-ers got in
      ” Given the spectacular results of over 200 yrs of migration let us not forget where we have all come from and embrace our share of the load for everyone on the planet.” These boat people should make their own backyards workable, and stop trying to DUMP their LOAD ON/ IN AUSTRALIA
      GOD ON YA GEORGE… HOPE YOU’VE GOT SEVERAL JOBS AND SOME SPARE ROOMS AT YOUR PLACE TO PUT THE NEW ARRIVALS AT ‘CAUSE YOUR PLACE IS HOPEFULLY THEIR FIRST STOP AND BY THE WAY YOU CAN’T REALLY SAY NO TO THEM NOW COULD YOU?

    • robert peterson says:

      05:15am | 03/11/09

      Who voted for the well known firm of wreckers: Rudd Gillard & Swan? Look at what they have done and think, another 4 years of this firm and this unique society will be on its knees. Remember where you saw this message.

    • Brett says:

      05:32am | 03/11/09

      Jonny, it’s people like you that stifle progression and solutions.
      Firstly the Ocean is constantly replenished with fresh water as 90% of rain falls in the Oceans. 
      Secondly, why you need a fast train? I’m not talking about commuting back to the city, I’m talking about living and working in Regional Areas. Thirdly Nuclear waste can be contained, unlike burning fossil fuels.
      I’m sorry Johnny, but it’s people like you who sit on their hands and stop everybody from taking action that will really be the “catastrophics”.
      And by the way, you think I’m wrong, I bet within 50 years we will have Nuclear Power, and Desalination is already happening in Melbourne.

    • Ray says:

      05:50am | 03/11/09

      Populate or perish what rubbish, we are already paying a high price for our immigration policies - you need only see the Court lists in any State but more so in NSW.

    • Bob Evans says:

      05:51am | 03/11/09

      I think we could support double what we have now, but over a longer period of time & that doubling point would be a cap. No more. We really need a new economic model worldwide. Its clear capitalsim, communism & the various other ism’s modern man have used to maintain an economy hasnt worked. They all require a ever increasing pyrmaid of people otherwise profits cant increase & taxes dont get paid.

    • Paul Vazzo says:

      06:20am | 03/11/09

      Obviously Indonesia doesn’t have Centrelink.

    • DWest says:

      06:37am | 03/11/09

      @bobevans our present models arn’t working, so while we flounder around looking for new ones you ‘think’ we could just double our population? Based on hope, faith, Irish optimism, Kevins opinion - what?

    • Vivienne says:

      09:21am | 30/05/10

      It seems the bigger the lie, and more outrageous it is, the more people seem to fall for it!  Once we have an economy of scale, and the population required to support it, the naive conclusion that by keeping the population growth rate high to add to more “prosperity” is deeply flawed.  It is simply an equation that finite resources cannot support limitless growth.  The costs of population growth are rarely mentioned in the media or by our leaders.  We are shut-up by “racist” accusations if we object to ongoing immigration.  We are going down a slippery slope of decline because our politicians simply refuse to acknowledge peak oil, wildlife extinctions, land and soil degradation, social pressures of high density living, climate change and the global population threat.

 

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