Blaming police who weren’t at the wheel of killer car

cats says:

05:01pm | 22/03/10

agree wholeheartedly.

H says:

07:19am | 23/03/10

Yep; 100% agree.

Overit says:

11:05am | 23/03/10

You are spot on. If he were in jail for previous offenses he would not have been on the road.
The police are damned if they do, damned if they don’t in these chase situations.
From the report it woudl appear that the driver of the stolen car was already speeding excessively before the police pursued them so the result may have been the same. Some where only the road this reckless speedy car theif would have killed someone.
What a tradgedy.
Let’s not lay blame. Let’s look at ways to stop this happening to other families.

shere khan says:

09:10am | 24/03/10

The Police did not know who he was only that he was Speeding.

LC says:

11:33pm | 11/11/11

Agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed, agreed!!!

This guy had a record a mile long. He’s been in court every day for something or another every day since he turned 18. Second chances and rehabilitation should be given where it’s appropriate, sure, but come on, there comes a point where one should have the common sense to note that it’s obvious that attempts to rehabilitate have failed, and he should be either locked away in a cell with only a bed, a toilet and a sink (no TV or other modern luxuries) or incarcerated in a mental institution for the remainder of his life in order to protect the public.

If they had done so even after his previous crash, where he put himself in coma, this would’ve been prevented. They didn’t and now a young family is dead.

As far as I’m concerned, some of the blood from this innocent family lies on the hands of the judiciary. Maybe if this should happen to a member of the judiciary, or a loved one of theirs, the judiciary will start to wake up.

LC says:

07:31pm | 12/11/11

Oops - meant to say at least once every year.

Tony says:

02:32pm | 22/03/10

The police called off the chase, This moron murdered people all by himself.

marley says:

02:32pm | 22/03/10

This wasn’t about issuing a speeding ticket, it was about catching a car thief driving a stolen car who was clearly a menace to everyone on the road.  If police can’t chase thieves, armed robbers and killers making their getaways, why bother having police at all?

Ryan says:

02:51pm | 22/03/10

@Tony: so they say! @marley: so let me get this straight, the ONLY way to solve a crime is to chase criminals at dangerous speeds down public roads? How many more people have to die because of this practice. Marley, do you think the recovery of a stolen car was worth the lives of four people?
While I agree with what Tony has to say, the driver was of course responsible, and is now dead because of his actions, the police cannot rant and rave and try to get another law passed in an effort to cover up their part in this tragic accident. The police need to take some responsibility for this, I myself was nearly killed by a police officer chasing a speeding driver on the pacific highway just outside of Kew. The officer was clearly speeding excessively, came around the corner, lost control for an instant and ended up on my side of the road barely missing me, he could have killed me and my family, all for a speeding ticket. This irresponsible behavior of the police needs to stop. Pass a law requiring cut out switches being installed in all cars, not some pathetic attempt to dissuade already career criminals from running from the police and above all, the police need to start to act responsibly.

min says:

03:40pm | 22/03/10

you are so wrong if you believe police don’t suffer concequence for their actions.  maybe if you were not a police hater you could ask one.

BTS says:

03:38pm | 22/03/10

Ryan,

Who’s to say that the car thief wouldn’t have been travelling at high speed whether or not the Police were there?  They aren’t responsible people after all.

If it were your car and the Police told you they had seen the thief driving it and didn’t bother to attempt to stop it what would you then say to the Police?  What if after having used your car he then sets it on fire to destroy evidence?  Still happy for the Police to sit back and do nothing?

Ryan says:

04:03pm | 22/03/10

@BTS: I have insurance, I am sure I wouldn’t have worried too much. If I had to pay an insurance excess, sure I would be displeased but if it saved four lives I wouldn’t hesitate for a second.
@min: ah yes, here we go, accuse me of being a police hater now, so for requesting that police are held accountable for their actions just like any normal citizen I am a police hater am I, and yet there I am advocating passing a law that would make police officers jobs easier and less dangerous. Smart!

BTS says:

04:27pm | 22/03/10

Ryan,

So Police should call you first to see if you have adequate insurance?

Adam Diver says:

04:54pm | 22/03/10

Ryan - I think you make the assumption the police will be fully aware of the end result. Everything is simpler in hindsight. Unfortunately in life sacrifices have to made. If we want to stop criminals the public may have to face some danger the world is not a perfect place. To call off a chase at high speeds only encourages more drivers to speed excessively to get away which would probably lead to more of these consequences.

min says:

04:56pm | 22/03/10

no ryan it doesn’t , but stating that they never suffer for their actions does. what do you know anyway about policing? have you heard of PIC or internal affairs. trust me they can suffer.

Ryan says:

06:44pm | 22/03/10

@Adam Diver: so you say these three innocent deaths are nothing more than a sacrifice we need to make to stop petty theives from running from the police? Really, do you really think life is that cheap?

BTS says:

08:47pm | 22/03/10

So Ryan,

(a) How do you know he’s a petty thief?

(b) Only you are valuing life as being ‘that cheap’.  Where do we draw the line?  What crimes do we pursue offenders, what crimes don’t we pursue?  How do you know what crimes the person in the stolen car has committed?  If he’s committed a murder, do you just let him go because all you know until you stop him, is that it’s a stolen car?

It’s unfortunate, but we as a society have to take a stand against crime and sometimes this will result in lives lost.

Studies in the UK showed that when Police introduced a no chase policy youths would drive up to the Police in stolen cars and then roar off knowing they couldn’t be chased.  It actually increased the number of chases and thus the risk to the public was greater.  Some jurisdictions now say that the faster the Police ram the offenders car, the less risk to the public…

Vicki PS says:

01:01am | 23/03/10

@Ryan: The police are NEVER held to account for their mistakes?  What sort of crap generalisation is that?  And speeding tickets are just revenue raising?

Let me guess—you’ve racked up a sh*tload of fines for speeding in your time and probably for a few other driving offences as well.  I bet you’ve pranged a car or two, and maybe lost you licence?  Your kind of unreasoning bitterness mostly comes from being on the collar-grabbing end of the long arm.  I’ll bet you’ve been known to whinge that the coppers should go and catch some *real* criminals instead of booking good blokes like you who only drive a few kms over the limit, and are perfectly safe drivers anyway?  Hm?

You conveniently choose to ignore the fact that the police involved made the sensible decision to halt their pursuit before the crash.  An investigation is underway.  What the hell else do you want?  Pillory the coppers first, then check if they actually did make a “mistake”.  Of course, since you insist that police are only interested in raising revenue and covering their butts.

Ryan, you should have a good hard listen to the rubbish you are spruiking: do not rejoin the debate until you have learned not to rely on straw men, baseless assertions and meaningless generalisations.

Skippy says:

06:15am | 23/03/10

Ryan you clearly have very little idea - a best mate of mine was a highway patrol officer, where ‘just doing his job’ was picking up body parts off roads!  He had a breakdown at 30 years of age, a wife and two children, were clearly greatly affected by this. He told me he just couldn’t do it anymore, as the images never leave you, and all he wanted to do was make a difference and make the roads safer, but he agrees it’s a loosing battle. These cops are human, yes they make mistakes, but they do pick their battles. Get a grip Ryan, and make an attitude adjustment, the real villan here is the clown that stole the car, NOT the police!!

David says:

08:56am | 23/03/10

By your reckoning, a terrorist driving a car load of explosives would only have to speed to get here without being stopped.  Or the bloke driving around with a murdered child in the boot would just have to floor it to avoid being caught.  Catching Criminals is what we pay our police to do. 

The fact this driver was already speeding and driving a stolen car means he was a criminal.  He had a female passenger - how did anyone know he had not abducted her?  If it had been your daughter sat in the passenger seat who had been abducted by an animal - how would you have felt reading that the police had to let her dissapear into the night because they were not allowed to chase?

Richmond says:

09:05am | 23/03/10

Ryan,

You have quite a lot to say after this article.

Why can I ask is it that you don’t try to change the system by being part of it? Why don’t you stop bleating on about your supposed anger at and ill treatment from the police?

Actually do something about it ie;-

Join the Police Force.

Show that you wish a fairer system by your actions.

As opposed to berating others for sharing their opinion.

Carolyn says:

09:20am | 23/03/10

Ryan, how do the police know that they are chasing merely a “petty car thief”?  How do you think Ted Bundy was caught, through a minor traffic infringement.  The police have no idea why someone speeds away from them and they can’t be left to just guess that it’s “only a petty car thief”.

MelD says:

10:18am | 23/03/10

Ok Ryan, lets look at this another way, you are travelling with your family and hear police sirens, you slow down your car to see where they are coming from you see the car speeding at you and realise he is not going to stop, you brake and the car careens past you maybe crashing maybe not with the cops behind, bottom line you didn’t go through the lights because you head the sirens.  Why are we so focused on the small percentage that end badly? yes it’s a tragedy but what if that stolen car had your child in it? you were car jacked and this guy took off with your baby? would you want police to do nothing or actually chase the tosser? Lets look at this from all perspectives, it’s not the cops fault. Blame the idiot with prior record who did the same thing last year and ended up in a coma, who didn’t have his wake up call and think maybe I shouldn’t steal cars and speed away from police, he sped because he had priors, not because he was afraid, he has criminal record from the time he was 18 lets not forget that.

James1 says:

10:26am | 23/03/10

Ryan,

The simple fact is the police didn’t kill anyone, either directly or indirectly.  Some idiot in a stolen car did.  The police were nowhere nearby at the time, either, having called off the chase.

Another simple fact is our roads are safer, thanks to so-called revenue raising, as it means less idiots speeding around in stolen car because they might get chased and caught.

Ryan says:

11:38am | 23/03/10

@Vicki PS: nope sorry, I have never had a speeding fine, crashed a car or had any run in with the law EVER, oh wait I did get a parking fine once. So now that you have made some “baseless assertions” in order to throw enough mud in the hope that some might stick, perhaps you might take your own advice and “do not rejoin the debate until you have learned not to rely on straw men, baseless assertions and meaningless generalisations.”

Ryan says:

11:52am | 23/03/10

@Richmond: I am for changing the system, I am advocating a change that includes the mandatory installation of satellite tracking with the ability to remote disable any car.. Thus giving the police the ability to stop these chases once and for all. While I understand it is possible to override / disable such a system with some time and effort, these are stolen cars we are talking about.
My gripe with the behavior of police officers acting irresponsibly through chasing comes directly from my personal experience of a near miss by a highway patrol officer chasing down a car that was speeding (obviously the need to raise revenue was higher than the safety of other cars on the road), loosing control and nearly wiping myself and my family off the face of the planet. Irresponsible, insanely dangerous behavior.

hired goon says:

02:37pm | 23/03/10

So… you think a solution to Police chasing cars is to give the state the ability to shut down anyone’s car, anywhere, at any time? I don’t think you understand if we get to a point where police will never stop crims means that the roads will belong to them.

Ryan says:

02:54pm | 23/03/10

@hired goon: yes that is exactly what I am saying, you need a license to drive, that can be revoked at any time, in the same way the police should have the ability to revoke your cars ability to be used at any time, especially when you try to run.

Vicki PS says:

03:23pm | 23/03/10

@Ryan:  My mistake, of course you drive a horse and buggy.  Or ride a bicycle.  And of course the rozzers have to pay for those new-fangled fast cars they drive, by chasing down every speeding civilian they spot.

Now to get real…and I invite you to join me back on planet Earth.  You base your inflated accusations of police incompetence and recklessness on your one experience of what you call a ‘near miss’.  A miss is as good as a mile:  you *did not* get hit by that police car.  Of course, you may choose to regard that as mere luck, but perhaps it had more to do with the skill of the police driver?

BTS says:

03:59pm | 23/03/10

Ryan,

So let’s just say that they ten million cars on the road and the cost of the GPS is $600 - 6 Billion Dollars - where does this money from come from?  Plus the expense of having the Police cars fitted with the equipment to shut down your engine.  What about people who can’t afford that kind of money?  What about their update and repair?  Who’s going to monitor that everyone is keeping theirs in fit condition?  Will their be fines for failing to do so?

The kill switch for a car must alse be the same astronomical expense and ongoing maintenance.

Are you also happy to have the Police bug your phone, house, car, in case you commit a crime?

The snivel libertarians are apoplectic as it is about invasion of privacy and you want the Police to be given more rights to infringe on your civil rights?

BTS says:

04:04pm | 23/03/10

Vicki PS,

And the Police Officer may have a vastly different view of how close it was?

How does Ryan also know why the Police Officer was chasing the other car?  If it were a bank robber, would it have been justified?

Ryan says:

04:36pm | 23/03/10

@BTS: its hardly an infringement on your civil rights to give the police the ability to disable your car, they have the ability now to take your keys away now in person, so please tell me the difference in being able to take the keys away remotely?
As for the billions of dollars you quote, how much is raised each year just in the GST on green slips? Hey one speed camera in NSW has raised over $7 million dollars.. where is that money? http://www.caradvice.com.au/36477/nsws-7million-speed-camera/

BTS says:

05:38pm | 23/03/10

Ryan

There may be a difference in State law, but where I am the Police don’t have the right to take your keys off you.  They have the ability to arrest you for driving related offences, but at no time can they confisicate your keys, they are your lawful property.

So while we are diverting six billion to the car scheme, what happens to the current health, education, roads etc.  There isn’t enough money at the moment to cover costs satisfactorily, the six billion would be additional taxes required.  Given that one speed camera generates $7 million a year it would take 857 years to chalk up the $6 billion required.  Sure you could chuck in all of the speed cameras, but I bet it won’t be funded till the next millenium.  Again whilst you are diverting speed camera money, where is the short fall going to be made up?

Getting back to the issue, the only scum responsible was the one who ran from Police.

Joe says:

09:11pm | 22/03/10

Seriously, you are suggesting police open fire on a vehicle during a pursuit?  Perhaps while hanging out the side of their own speeding car, just like you see in the movies?  You do realise the only part of a car that is guaranteed to stop a bullet, is the engine block?  That means they would have to be in front of the speeding car, which is unlikely to happen.  Otherwise, the rest of those bullets are likely to pass straight through a car, if they didn’t miss in the first place, ricochet off the road and into other cars, buildings or people along the roadside.  It might be practical in rural areas, but in the city or suburbs, that is guaranteed to be a highly dangerous practice and simply injure more innocent citizens.

Vince Whirlwind says:

12:24pm | 23/03/10

Yeah - there should be a constant aerial patrol in the air, equipped with miniguns - as soon as a police chase is reported, the helicopter can get there in a minute or two and then use the miniguns to eradicate the potentially deadly vehicle.
I reckon car stealing would stop dead if we did that.
That means a lot less victims of crime and a lot less dead people on the roads every year.

quynh_huong04 says:

09:06am | 23/03/10

100% agree !

MelD says:

10:33am | 23/03/10

we should also bring back public hanging, if you are speeding, drinking or high as a kite and choose to get behind the wheel especially unlicenced then hang the mongrels, I have no qualm speaking ill of the dead. I wonder if he was smacked as a child? it’s obvious he hadn’t learnt about consequences to his actions or would his mum have just gone “no dear it’s not nice to steal cars, speed from the police and kill people, go sit in the time out corner” yeah that’s awesome work!

that’s what they do in parts of the middle east, driving caught speeding, running a red light and driving without a licence get flogged. I like it!

Robert Smissen of Rural SA says:

02:16pm | 23/03/10

Why stop at 50 & 3? ? ?

Rob says:

08:57pm | 22/03/10

@anna, as a highway patrol officer I completely agree that any speed is dangerous.  However, the difference is that I am highly trained to drive at these speeds.  Does this completely remove the danger? No of course not.  Of course we want less people speeding on our roads.  For every vehicle that doesnt speed, that is one less that I have to risk my life to stop and prevent them killing someone else.  It is simply common sense that I need to drive at a faster speed to catch another speeding vehicle but if I don’t do this then the roads will become lawless and people will drive worse than they already do.  How many times have you been driving around and see someone doing something really stupid and you have asked yourself, “Where are the police when you need them?”

werner says:

09:10pm | 22/03/10

Anna:  You seem to think that simply educating people will eradicate bad behaviour.  It clearly doesn’t, as most people breaking the law know they are doing so but think that they have the privilege to do as they please, others be damned.  you also imply that the police are idiots.  Good luck when you need help.

Anna says:

06:58am | 23/03/10

@werner - i never implied police were idiots, simply that there has to be a better alternative to high speed car chases. I never said educating people will make a difference either, I just asked the question do high speed car chases lead to a reduced level of crime and are they worth risking lives for. So many other factors could have stopped this tradegy from occuring, long before the actual car chase. And what do you mean by good luck when i need help??? I never attacked anyone, I only questioned the premise of high-speed car chases.

Anth says:

02:37pm | 23/03/10

@Rob: I agree that Police are trained to undertake such chases to get the lawless off the road. However, I disagree with Police using road safety as their number one priority when it suits them. I have been fined (as I’m sure many others have) by concealed Police cars, hiding on off-ramps or behind bushes.

These cars do nothing but hand out speeding fines for often “barely-over” speeding drivers. They do nothing to increase safety on the roads. If the Police truly cared about road safety, they would not hide their cars behind bushes and off-ramps. Park your car on the median strip of a freeway and you will notice every car that approaches drives slower. Of course that won’t raise our gutless Police force any money will it?

BTS says:

03:38pm | 23/03/10

Anth.

You do know that the Police don’t get the money they raise?  It goes to State Treasury.

If you now have to drive slower because you have so few points left, is that not making the road a safer place.

Here’s a thought, that might help you avoid both the trouble and your despise…don’t break the law.

Werner says:

04:31pm | 23/03/10

Anna
I agree with your basic sentiments, but I must have misunderstood you.  Speeders are idiots, as you say.  But how can the police deal with such without speeding?  To never pursue a criminal in a car when the speed limit is exceeded will open the floodgates.
This particular tragedy might have been avoided if the perpetrator had been dealt with more harshly for his previous offences, perhaps imprisonment.
On the other point, when you say “I don’t understand how this happens when there is so much advertising and talk of not speeding..” you are in fact asserting that advertising and talk should improve behaviour.  Lamentably, it doesn’t always do so.

Grumpy says:

02:48pm | 22/03/10

exactly - its not the police officers fault and its not the fault of the occupants of the car that didn’t run the light.

The responsibility lies with the person who drove a car at high speed through a red light - end of story

Garry says:

03:13pm | 22/03/10

I agree with you Ali, Just think how many more high speed runs people will do if they know that the police will not catch them.

anne says:

12:41pm | 23/03/10

Ali,

I completely agree with you, and what I don’t think a lot of people realise is that these things (as you said - suspect increases speed knowing they won’t be pursued) happen more often than you realise, and a lot of the time police DO CALL OFF the pursuits because as soon as the driver starts endangeirng the lives of other road users the Police will call the pursuit off.

I think people really need to familiarise themselves with the legislation and see that there are strict rules and guidelines that Police do need to abide by. A lot of people here are just crapping on about the things they pick up from the media or their friends, and which are completely untrue.

Macca says:

03:00pm | 22/03/10

For once Iansand, i agree with you

Brave blokes do a pretty thankless job

Grumpy says:

03:37pm | 22/03/10

hear hear

Ryan says:

02:55pm | 22/03/10

@SLR: actually not, I am an advocate for people taking greater responsibility for their actions, in this case the police are the only persons left alive who had a part in this tragic accident, they should take responsibility for their role in this.
The scumbag who created this situation is of course to blame, this does not make the police blameless.

Tim says:

03:15pm | 22/03/10

Actually Ryan,
yes it does leave them blameless.
They were doing their jobs and following standard procedure.
Blame the driver and blame the court system for not putting him behind bars already.

SLR says:

03:33pm | 22/03/10

Actually, the Police called off the pursuit when Mr Williams went through his first red light.
It was when he was no longer being pursued, and went through the second red light, at speeds said to be close to 200kph that he wiped out the other innocent people on the road.

Ryan says:

04:03pm | 22/03/10

@Tim: ah right, so the actions of a police officer, as long as they were within operational procedure means that they are blameless. So in your logic if someone falsely identified you walking down the street as the person who robbed their store and following standard police procedure the cops don’t think about the wall behind you, slam you backwards into a wall putting you into a permanent coma, that is following standard police procedure and are blameless, just a tragic accident right? Yes this did happen to some poor innocent kid.

BTS says:

08:49pm | 22/03/10

Ryan,

Let us know where ‘slam(ing) you backwards into a wall putting you into a permanent coma’ is in Police Operational Procedures.  I bet you can’t find it.

Rob says:

08:55pm | 22/03/10

@RYAN: The pursuit was terminated 1km prior to where the car crashed.  Therefore the fool behind the wheel was all on his own.  He was speeding before the police saw him, he was speeding during the pursuit and he was speeding after the police had lost sight of him.

Annette says:

12:48pm | 23/03/10

Ryan - you’re an idiot. There is no point debating this issue with you, because you’re being ridiculous! I have friends who work in the police force, and believe me, police are always scrutinised for all their actions.

And how do you know that idiot wouldn’t have killed someone else on the road, even if he hadn’t been caught by Police? You don’t need to be driving 200km/h to cause a significant collision with another car.

Ryan says:

02:44pm | 23/03/10

@Annette: nice low class comment there, I wonder if you could ever bring yourself to having enough manners to debate something without lowering yourself to personal insults. Well done!

LC says:

12:28am | 12/11/11

@ Ryan,

Yawn, here we go again.

The police CALLED OFF THE CHASE by the time the hit the other car. The police were not chasing him when he crashed.

The police used their judgement (which I’m sure far oustrips yours) and called it off because it was dangerous.

But did that bit of shit stop too? Of course not!

Furthermore, provide a citation for you claim that to slam you backwards into a wall putting you into a permanent coma being the way to apprehending robbers according to standard police procedure.

And as a afterthought: If the driver was a alive, would you still blame the police? Given your attitude so far in this blog, I’d bet the answer would be yes.

MelD says:

10:48am | 23/03/10

I agree, and lets make cars that can’t go over 140km’s, why do they need to be able to when none of our roads have that as a limit? all new cars should be limited to 140km, and when current cars co in for service the Govt should be getting all garages to install blockers for the speed (not sure if that can be done or not) at no charge, Govt incentive, that will bring the road toll down.

LC says:

11:33am | 19/02/12

If the car is moving and it shuts itself off, that means the driver cannot use the brakes or the steering. If he hit’s something, he’ll die, and I doubt you wouldn’t continue to blame the police.

This sort of system would cost around $600-800 per car, and the speed limiting system, I wouldn’t know how much that’d cost. How many cars do you think there are on Australian roads? Where is this money going to come from? What about people who do the right thing and take their cars to track days and race in a somewhat controlled environment? How will normal, law abiding drivers react when they hear such Orwellian tactics are being pushed onto them when they’ve done nothing wrong? And why should everyone have to pay the price (not just the financial one) for a few idiots, many of whom should’ve been locked up a long time ago to begin with? Finally, do you seriously not believe that worst of the worst offenders would simply override these? Crims seem have no problems getting guns here despite some of the toughest gun control laws in the world, so what makes you think they’ll suddenly run into issues with this? A crim with mechanical knowledge, or one who knows someone who has is all it takes. Mechanics have already been caught out reversing illegal modifications on hoon’s cars prior to the hoon getting inspections on the car, then changing the car back to it’s original state for a price. What makes you think they wouldn’t do the same here?

cats says:

09:58am | 23/03/10

good to hear from someone who was actually there. thanks June.

Garry says:

03:18pm | 22/03/10

Yeahhh I am home free, hhahaha I beat the cops, gotta tell the guys, add it to my facebook, hahaha the idiots that are cops just don’t have the guts I do. I think tomorrow night when I go to me mates B/Day and have a few drinks I can beat the police home cause I now know once I get that beep I am driving fast enough to beat them and I will have won….  If I slow down, hell they might then catch me… oh yeah, great I can speed up again until that beep…..

Oh and Esen, that was sarcasm…. Good that people are thinking and not just blaming someone but not like that.

Ben says:

03:19pm | 22/03/10

Esen, why not simply turn the bright, flashing red and blue lights off?

nick says:

02:09am | 23/03/10

@ Garry, someone braging on facebook is better then them t-boning a family

Babs says:

03:43pm | 22/03/10

He was already doing 200 km/hr before he even went past the cops for them to notice him.  He was an accident looking for a place to happen and he found it.  My condolences to the innocent family involved.

Anna says:

03:57pm | 22/03/10

As they say, you can’t outrun a radio.

I’d like to see some sort of portable GPS transmitter that can be fired at the car from a distance. It attaches to the car and the car can be tracked. Chances are the crook won’t know it’s on there until he stops.

marley says:

06:09pm | 22/03/10

And your suggestions are?

Ryan says:

06:56pm | 22/03/10

@Anna: there is a satellite based tracking system that is used in many countries around the world where hijacking and car theft is a problem, these satellite tracking systems also have the ability to disable the car. Now take that into account with a number plate or a radio frequency tag both made mandatory in a car by law, what do you have, the ability for the police to instantly disable a stolen car running from them.
This technology has been around for over a decade, and would make our roads and police safer. Not hard.

BTS says:

08:48pm | 22/03/10

Do criminals use false number plates?

A: Yes, so you can’t really track that can you.

Who’s going to pay to have every car in Australia have a satellite tracking system in place?

Reader says:

09:55am | 23/03/10

@ Anna, a system of that nature is already on trial in one Australian state.

Canberran says:

12:56pm | 23/03/10

Anna, that would be great, but being from canberra, I know that the ACT police are VERY POORLY funded compared to some other states, I doubt equipment like that will ever become fully available.

Like some other people said, we really should be asking our government why this offender was released on bail in the first place after he had a prior conviction for a similar offence? The justice system in Australia is LAUGHABLE - Police and the DPP work their asses off to gather enough evidence to take matters to court, only for the offenders to get a slap on the wrist (i.e. suspended sentences and the like). Furthermore, even when they are placed in prisons ON THE RARE OCCASSION, they do not learn anything but how to become better crooks. Has anyone been to the AMC in Canberra - it’s like a holiday camp!

BTS says:

04:37pm | 22/03/10

They do, it’s called a Coronial Inquiry.

Basil says:

09:48pm | 22/03/10

Saw the Grimshaw interview on ACA this evening and totally agee S.L, I was disgusted.  I too turned it off.  Is this what passes for responsible journalism?  Whose idea was it to hunt this mother down and put her in front of a camera?  Respect obviously has no place in these current affair shows.

MelD says:

11:02am | 23/03/10

These people especially the young ones who continually hoon around should be faced with a choice, jail time or join the army and head to Afghanistan, maybe without a rifle and told they are the rest of the squads scout and they go first.

BTS says:

06:33am | 23/03/10

If he was travelling at 200km/hr prior to the Police involvement, is it a reasonable prospect that he was going to kill someone anyway?

MelD says:

11:56am | 23/03/10

Nick, rubbish, people died because some idiot thought it was a good idea to steal a car and speed past cops, he was already speeding and would have continued to do so whether the cops were there or not.

Daniel says:

08:35am | 23/03/10

Exactly correct. Police are damned if they do, damned if they don’t. I know that the families are looking for someone to blame after this traumatic event, but I think over time they will realise it was the driver of the stolen car who is to blame. If the courts had done their job and put the oxygen thief behind bars, this may not have happened.

We have a very soft court system, and criminals have no reason to be afraid of penalties. This is why you see so many repeat offenders. Police catch them, and the courts let them go with a slap on the wrist.

MelD says:

12:00pm | 23/03/10

Daniel, more than likely they are wanting to sue the Govt or Police Department, this is just leading up to it, they probably think with more public outcry they have a better chance

BTS says:

09:36am | 23/03/10

Have you been a Police Officer Steve? Have you spoken to the officers involved in this incident?  How can you know whether they were ‘enjoying every minute of it’?  How do you know they didn’t disassociate from the chase by themselves because they beleived it was becoming too dangerous?

Put simply - You Don’t!

Rob says:

09:46am | 23/03/10

@Steve, quite simply this is one of the dumbest things I have ever seen written.  I work in the Highway Patrol.  We have families as well and believe it or not pursuits are just as dangerous for us.  Pursuits are rare and thankfully I haven’t been in many.  If I can finish my shift without risking my life than it has been successful.  I enjoy what I do but definately not at the expense of others.  It’s not as personal as you think.  Most people I meet know they have done wrong, they accept the penalty and move on.  Oh and the pursuit lasted 4 minutes.  Might be worthwhile checking some facts before making outlandish comments.

BTS says:

09:41am | 23/03/10

mm,

Interesting article:

‘The parents of a Canberra student hit by a stolen car during a police chase four years ago said pursuits were a licence to kill and should be banned unless the public was in danger.’

The public were in danger on this occasion.  The driver was already travelling dangerously before Police became involved - the public were in danger, so one would suspect that the parent of the Canberra student would support a chase in this instance.

‘‘That has resulted in another four deaths,’’ Ms Rose said. ‘‘This is a minor offence … Why should a young man of 23 die because he stole a car?’‘

Don’t steal the car, don’t drive at excessive speed, don’t drive dangerously…his behaviour, his consequences.

LC says:

12:06pm | 13/11/11

Another article conveniently ignoring the fact the CHASE WAS ABANDONED BEFORE THE ACCIDENT.

And banning police purists, as has been said dozens of times already and as has happened in the UK when they banned purists, only result in more people flooring it and getting away from the police because they know they cannot chase them, causing more tragedies. And I guess then the police will STILL get blamed.

And leading police on a high speed chase should have a mandatory prison sentence of 3 years attached to it, regardless of whether the offender is 14, 24 or 44. Old enough to do the crime is old enough to do the time. Parents should also be charged in cases involving those under 18.

Ryan says:

12:03pm | 23/03/10

@Mik: before you run off showing your class (or lack thereof) by insulting someone by accusing me of a lack of reality with regards to the existence of such a device, perhaps you could avail yourself of some facts.. I did a quick search and found just a few of these systems. Apology.. no I thought not.

http://unitracking.com/
http://www.drdetailshop.com/v200.htm
http://www.gps-practice-and-fun.com/gps-car-tracking.html

As far as funding is concerned for a project such as this, there are many forms of revenue raised for roads and traffic, green slip, fuel taxes, fines, GST on top of all of those.

LC says:

03:03pm | 13/11/11

Of course these devices exist Ryan, well done on COMPLETELY MISSING HIS POINT. He never said these devices don’t exist, and if he did, then yes he is a fool. He only said that you’ll struggle to find public support for their blanket installation in all cars. And this is true: Free thinking adults despise being treated like children. They won’t stand for big brother breathing down their neck just because a few people f*** up.

The solution is to punish the criminals, not the law-abiding citizens.

Hence why I support mandatory prison terms of between 3-5 years for people that lead the police on high-speed chases, 25 years in prison if they seriously injure someone while doing so and life in prison if they kill someone while doing so.

BTS says:

09:44am | 23/03/10

Dozens,

They don’t get reported.  They lack the fanfare the media require.  They acknowledge that most of the time Police resolve high speed chases successfully despite the crime committed by the criminal.

Wood says:

09:44am | 23/03/10

Knightrider episode 5

Daniel says:

09:48am | 23/03/10

Can you give an example of when calling off a pursuit has resulted in less criminals on the street?  How about criminals who have no regard for the safety of themselves or others, handing themselves in after they have gotten away? 

And for the record, I’m pretty sure their have been hundreds of pursuits that ended in the criminal being locked up before he/she went on to hurt someone/break the law again.  They just don’t make the news.

Rob says:

09:56am | 23/03/10

I work in the Highway Patrol and I can tell you that MOST pursuits are terminated and the bad guy is allowed to continue driving.  I don’t think there is anything more frustrating from our perspective.  The policies that we are bound by are very very strict.  The reason these pursuits aren’t publicised is because it may encourage others not to stop if they know that the odds are in their favour that the pursuit will be terminated.  I have heard pursuits being cancelled even though the weather is fine, no other traffic on the road and the speed isn’t excessive.  This pursuit that we are all talking about is an example of great decision making based on the pursuit policy.  The pursuit was terminated as soon as the danger increased to an unsatisfactory level.  Everyone involved should be congratulated for this, not bagged.

DG says:

10:10am | 23/03/10

Jesse Kelly - the idiot killed some of his partners in crime without any harm to innocents.

On a more general note - everything that is done which reduces the risk of being caught, increases the incentive to commit crime for individuals who are so inclined.

Given that there are about 5 pursuits a day (on average) and that we haven’t heard about any since Saturday, it would be reasonable to assume that 19 of those 20 pursuits (4 days) didn’t end this way (else there would be similar reports). How far do we have to go back before we get to a similar article? The closest I could find was about 3 months ago. It certainly doesn’t suggest that the majority of these chases end badly….

dean says:

10:27am | 23/03/10

Jan 1 2010
Jan 11 2010
Feb 4 2010
Feb 25 2010
March 19 2010
March 21 2010

Just a few dates that have involved injuries and fatalities from high speed car chases this year alone. I am sure if I spent longer I would find more. No, it should never get to the point where a high speed chase should even occur. People disrespect the law, others in the community and so on. We all know this, we all know there should be harsher penalities, longer jail terms etc and we all agree the police are trying their best to protect us. But innocent people are suffering as a result. It is a no win situation - i hate the thought of a criminal getting away with it, but i hate the though of someone being hurt even more. Yes people drive recklessly, but having a police car breathing down your neck can make the situation worse. The police are not to blame, but there has to be a better way.

Julie says:

01:06pm | 23/03/10

DEAN,

I’ll give you an example of where a high speed chase ended favourably. It was last week in Canberra, where officers pursued 4 young females in a stolen car through weston and tuggeranong area. the passengers of the car actually threw bottles at the police while being chased. they got aprehended eventually (without injury or death) but then the stupid idiots tried to escape police by repeatedly reversing their car into the Police vehicle to the point where it is no longer in a driveable state.

All four girls have been arrested and will go before court. Betcha they’ll only get a slap on the wrist - just wait and see.

Charles Kelly says:

07:57pm | 23/03/10

You’re probably right Julie - given the dismal state of our legal system, it’s highly likely “they’ll only get a slap on the wrist”. So HOW exactly is that “an example of where a high speed chase ended favourably”???

While we’re at it, if laws are actually introduced where people failing to stop for police get a minimum 3 year prison sentence, what’s the likelihood that they’ll drive EVEN MORE dangerously to avoid capture once they’ve reached the point of no return?

Robbie says:

10:09pm | 24/03/10

Dean,I have a solution to all our problems.How about you and some other good samaritans go and buy a nice car for let’s say 40K.Then on a date to be fixed,April 1 may be appropiate, you and your friends could present the keys to a car thief of your choice.This magnaminous gesture would 1.Alleviate the need for car chases.2.Save the lives of innocent people and 3.Keep my insurance premiums to a minimum.

sam says:

09:02am | 25/03/10

well done robbie. you have really addressed the point dean was making. It is a shame someone with your intelligence isn’t running the country. It is also a shame when innocent people suffer, that people don’t wake up and change their behaviour.

Vince Whirlwind says:

12:27pm | 23/03/10

That’s 37 convictions in 8 years.
Plus more outstanding charges in Queanbeyan and the ACT.
Plus another bunch of charges relating to his latest activity.
There is *no* way somebody responsible for this level of criminal activity should be loose in our community.
Somebody could get killed! Oh….somebody did….

Mel the Buzz says:

03:25pm | 23/03/10

Wow, your post really touched me Mark. I know that we all do stupid things in our ‘yoof’, but it’s the ability to back down and accpet our just desserts that sets us apart from the morally bankrupt minority. A fine, loss of license for a while and a feeling of embarassment are well worth escaping with your life and limb intact. Enjoy watching your 2-yo grow up and also grow in their respect for you.

Kaz says:

01:17pm | 24/03/10

“we all know…” blah, blah, blah. 
Are you completely stupid or just ignorant, uneducated and illinformed?
Unless you are behind those closed doors you have no bloody idea what goes on.

LC says:

03:37pm | 13/11/11

“Why cant they just put those traps out that burst the tyres?”

A. How do you know they will stay on the road? When their tires deflate, they’ll fall off leaving them on bare rims with much less grip and subsequently control. And if he hits a tree and dies as a direct result, I’d bet a reasonable amount of my pay packet that the police would still be blamed.
B. You need to divert all other traffic away from the strips, lest an innocent motorist runs over them, lose control and crash, and the shit really hits the fan. Besides, if he saw a line of police cars up ahead with run-of-the-mill motorists going around it, wouldn’t he just join them?

If they did nothing, and he hit the family, it’s the fault of the police for not attempting to stop him.
If they kept pursuing the car, and he hit a tree or a post and killed himself, it’s the fault of police AGAIN for just doing their job: Catching criminals.
If they used spike strips, and the driver loses control, hits a tree and kills himself, its the fault of police YET AGAIN because they DARED try and stop the guy BEFORE he cleaned up an innocent family.

The rest of your comment is little more than conspiracy theory. If you aren’t behind those closed doors how the f*** do you know what goes on?
PS: Are you a 9/11 “truther” too? Just curious.

LC says:

03:20pm | 13/11/11

Because it’s natural human instinct to find someone to blame in the wake of a tragedy.

Seeing as the driver of the stolen car is dead, and likely his girlfriend too, the only other person/people left to blame is the police.

BTS says:

03:11pm | 23/03/10

It costs too much money to implement.

When he stops you don’t know who was driving the car?  Was it him or his girlfriend?

Fingerprints are rarely successfully obtained.  If he’s a known car thief he would wipe the car or set it on fire.

Some people just aren’t aware of the tech which is out there…

Jason says:

08:02pm | 23/03/10

The technology isn’t perfect and the cases you present make total sense, but is the solution more or less imperfect than a high speed pursuit “sometimes” ending in tragedy?  Sometimes even marginal improvements in catching the crims are made worth it by the lives saved.

On the cost factor I can think of a certain 43 billion dollar broadband network which could be money better spent.

BTS says:

07:51pm | 23/03/10

Ryan

‘this is what the police say, they called off the chase, the police have been well known to say many things like this.’

From your computer terminal, you know what happened.  Would you be happy to be judged by people who were not there?  What if they are telling the truth?

‘lets not mention the donations that are given by the state Labor governments to Unions who in turn make donations to the Labor party coffers.’

...and the Liberal Party has no links to the business community do they, they have never received a donation from the business sector?

If he was driving at 200km/hr before, during and after the chase…if this is true…how is he not 100% responsible for the deaths?

‘you have all convinced me and I have changed my mind…’

Welcome to law abiding society.

LC says:

03:50pm | 13/11/11

The police called off the chase when they believed it to be too dangerous.
The police called off the chase when they believed it to be too dangerous.
The police called off the chase when they believed it to be too dangerous.
(I read somewhere reading something three times makes it more likely to stick)

Banning police pursuits would mean that any person the police would pull over, what do you think the driver’s going to do? He’s going to floor it, as he knows that he’s stands a very, very good chance at getting away, causing more tragedies like this. This would make our roads no-go zones all of the time and you would not even be able to walk on the footpath safely. And I guess you’d continue to blame the police for not stopping these people when tragedies do occur.

There’s one person whom had the power to stop this chase at any time. The same person could’ve also prevented it from happening full stop. He is one of the deceased. He is not a police officer. He his not at police dispatch. He was the man driving the stolen car. He did not make that decision, now he is dead.

And can I assume that the last group of people you’d call for help would be the “under trained semi-illiterate punks should not be allowed to hold a badge” that are the police (in your humble opinion)? I certainly wouldn’t rely on anyone who I believe to be a “under trained semi-illiterate punk” to help me if I was in trouble.

It’s clear as day you have no clue whatsoever on these matters.

BTS says:

04:27am | 25/03/10

‘Accidents in which speed in excess of the posted limit is the ACTUAL CAUSE, account for a very minor percentage of the overall road toll…’

You actually have no idea.

Charles Kelly says:

07:53pm | 25/03/10

Well BTS, as “accidents in which speed in excess of the posted limit is the ACTUAL CAUSE” account for less than three percent of the overall tally (look it up), perhaps you’d like to explain to us all how this low figure represents something other than a “very minor percentage”? Or is it really you who has “no idea”?