The ‘world’s most wanted man’, Osama bin Laden is dead. For all the latest news, see www.news.com.au. For an analysis of what it means, here is what Matthew Gray, ANU expert in Middle Eastern and Islamic Studies, had to say.

This is a symbolic victory, and there’s considerable satisfaction for those who wanted revenge. I’m not sure it’ll have that much operational or strategic impact on Al Qaeda, though.

Osama was not, as far as I can tell, doing much direct operational work or strategic stuff beyond setting vague directions as to where the Al Qaeda ‘brand name’ might go from here – Al Qaeda is now a set of like-minded groups in different parts of the world.

So this won’t help in terms of how the war on terrorism is fought, but it will offer an enormous satisfaction and a symbolic victory, and it may have some impact in the Arab world.

It’s hard to know if there’ll be retaliation
Al Qaeda would have difficulty retaliating except in an ad hoc way.

The ‘original’ Al Qaeda are probably not able to retaliate without further consideration and planning. We may get low-scale or amateurish stuff claiming to be retaliating but the truth is Al Qaeda has been somewhat bruised by the US war on terror – it’s geographically split now; it’s not a holistic organisation, although there are some structured parts of it, say on the Arabian Peninsula.

I would be just as concerned about civil unrest, which in Pakistan in particular is possible. There could be anti-US unrest, or widespread rioting. There is also the prospect there’ll be supporters of Al Qaeda not so much launching revenge attacks but they may up the tempo of attacks in Iraq or Afghanistan because they see this as a victory for the US.

On the funding of Al Qaeda
I don’t know how much of his money was left – he was obviously well connected or had some money left, the family has a lot of money but whether he did or not is not all that clear.

The other interesting question is whether anyone will get the reward – they may have busted a code or picked him up on a phone – or, which is as likely if not more likely, is that someone did see him or know where he was.

On US President Barack Obama’s response
That’s the 2012 campaign speaking when he emphasises his and his government’s role.

But he played it the way he should have. You can’t dance, smile and sing. There are enough people in the Muslim world who appreciate bin Laden had the guts to take on the Americans. He said things that were popular.

Obama’s image in the Muslim world wouldn’t have been helped if he’d stood up and done a song and dance. So he conveyed a sense of satisfaction – he came across quite well. He was Presidential, eloquent and precise.

A lot of the information now will come out more slowly.

A good question is who owns the place where he was killed? It’s in old-fashioned government held territory, but who owned the property?

How much did the Pakistani military intelligence know? If he was in that house for more than a couple of weeks it would be very hard for the Pakistani intelligence to explain themselves. They tend to know what people had for breakfast

As for the impact on Australia
There’ll be a slightly changed risk for our soldiers in Afghanistan. If there’s an outpouring of support for Osama, or if the Taliban make life difficult we might face a higher risk of attacks. Beyond that, I don’t think there’s a great impact here.

The fact they got good enough intelligence to get this bloke is quite impressive. It’s good news. Even if it’s just symbolic.

170 comments

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    • Orkzo says:

      02:46pm | 02/05/11

      The Zionists got their way in the end.

    • Macon Paine says:

      03:24pm | 02/05/11

      We always do Orkzo, we always do….

    • chris ozman says:

      03:25pm | 02/05/11

      The wackos come straight out of the cupboard. Just somebody using the word “Zionist” means you are some sadly propaganda-affected individual with conspiracy theories hidden in your cornflakes packet. Give it a rest, if you want to spend your days on Earth waffling anti-Zionist rantings then go back to wherever you come from, and take your chip with you. Simple really.

    • Bilby says:

      03:32pm | 02/05/11

      Aye man. Praise Jah.

    • GwaiTsi says:

      04:11pm | 02/05/11

      It was just Allah’s will.

    • The Redman says:

      09:31pm | 02/05/11

      Actually, the Jews coined the term Zionist. Do your research, Chris.

    • Govt@FauxCitizen says:

      10:20am | 03/05/11

      The difference between a freedom fighter and a terrorist is when you cross the line and start choosing soft targets like holidayers in Bali or people going about their daily life in the twin towers, children women and men alike of all religions. Do you reckon bin laden got his virgin goats and rivers of milk and honey or did he just plain go straight to hell for waging war on innocent civillians? and bestowing a world of hurt on the Afghanis, after his pathetic attempt to give the Western Nations a black eye he was a prisoner in his own skin confined to a life of purgatory, wondering for every moment of his limited shitty life who of his associates would give him up for $25,000,000.oo “Zionist” dollars.

    • Thommo says:

      11:27am | 03/05/11

      Where does it say anything about Virgins as a matyrs reward?

    • Erick says:

      02:48pm | 02/05/11

      Sounds about right.

      The big question for the immediate future is: How dis bin Laden manage to stay securely hidden in Pakistan all this time? In a mansion just 75km from the capital? There can be little doubt that many Pakistani officials were complicit in hiding him.

      Will the West make an issue of Pakistan’s obvious alignment, or just pretend not to notice? My money is on the latter, as far as official reaction goes - but there will be many many people who are not fooled.

    • maverick says:

      04:37pm | 02/05/11

      i totally agree with you erick…its clear pakistan would be involved in sheltering bin laden…everyone belived that now it is confirmed.

    • LC says:

      06:35pm | 02/05/11

      Even if it was true Erick, they don’t want to make a big show and dance about it. The US wants to keep things friendly with Pakistan because they have nuclear weapons.

    • Steve of Cornubia says:

      07:21pm | 02/05/11

      Pakistan is just like every other Muslim-dominated nation: many are supporters of extremism, many are not, but all are afraid. Remember, Pakistan is a young nation, and in living memory was created out of a violent uprising, so it stands to reason that Bin Laden would have many friends there.

    • John says:

      02:49pm | 02/05/11

      Waiting for Julian Assange to call a press conference and for him to say wikileaks was the reason the Americans found osama

    • Chris says:

      05:59pm | 02/05/11

      If wikileaks found out about this and publized his location, Osama would still be alive today.

    • John says:

      07:07pm | 02/05/11

      I know that Chris just a tongue in cheek comment as Assange has taken the credit for the uprisings in the Arab world so y not this as hes not been getting huge headlines.

    • Steve says:

      02:53pm | 02/05/11

      What’s wrong with symbolism. It got Labor into power

    • Woodsy says:

      02:59pm | 02/05/11

      Totally agree on the ‘symbolic victory’ call. Members of Al Qaeda are hardly going to pack up their dynamite vests and remote triggers and head home.

      A call which I thought was strange was during the interview of a journalist (who I cannot now recall) who was the last western journalist to interview bin Laden and who said that this will end the war on terror because there is no one left who can fill the hole (pardon the pun) left by bin Laden’s death.

      Surely he’s not naive enough to think that these extremists don’t already have retaliation plans in progress? I can see the already sky-high levels of paranoia in the world skyrocketing over the next few months.

    • Conspirator says:

      03:01pm | 02/05/11

      Perhaps it was the one trick pony that turned him in after renting out his holiday home in Abbottabad.
      Hopefully Dr. NO will now retire with the reward the Americans put on Osama’s head.

    • Steve says:

      03:47pm | 02/05/11

      Is that you nossy? If not you are a plagarist

    • Rosie says:

      03:48pm | 02/05/11

      Conspirator - am still laughing because when I saw it was Abbottabad the first person that came to mind was Nosthow and wondered he would come up with. I wanted to comment on it but thought no it was too soon to make a joke of one of our own who was dedicated to our head of State before she addresses the media on today’s momentous achievement.

      It will have to be the best post of the day on such a significant critical victory on terrorism for the US and its allies.

      With the bounty of $25 million Nosthow can well afford to leave us and concentrate on our PM retaining the primeministership for another term after Elections.

      Listen out for our PM for she will once again become very emotional about the Yanks achievement like she did with their historic event, ” walk on the moon” this time the capture of the most wanted man dead or alive.

      I am still laughing!

    • Rosie says:

      04:07pm | 02/05/11

      My apologies to our PM, it is a first because I agreed with what she had to say and how she said it. I think it was the real Julia because she meant what she said without “votes” on her mind. Unlike the Congress speech she spoke for the nation.

    • Chris L says:

      04:21pm | 02/05/11

      Picture the man in budgie smugglers holding an M16 saying “This is for the great, big, new attacks on everything!”. On the other hand, don’t picture that!

    • Conspirator says:

      04:29pm | 02/05/11

      Rosie dear
      Howard in his remarks today was a bigger gusher of the US than Julia was when she addressed congress.

    • Steve says:

      04:40pm | 02/05/11

      Rosie. Gillard needs to spin this to be an Australian effort. Perhaps via Wkileaks and Julian Assange. She can apply the $25M reward to the budget deficit!

    • NicoleG says:

      05:33pm | 02/05/11

      @Steve, nope, it’s Badger.

    • Rosie says:

      05:47pm | 02/05/11

      Conspirator

      You would have to forgive John Howard for over gushing of the US.  He had an excuse, he as PM was in Washingston on 9/11 and felt the impact more than Gillard, today’s PM 10 years later.

    • Conspirator says:

      07:30pm | 02/05/11

      Agreed Rosie
      and you in turn will have to forgive Julia, she was not yet 8 years old when man first walked on the moon.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      08:45pm | 02/05/11

      Chris L, Is that Bob “Bogan” Hawke you are talking about, I recall far too many pics of his flabby body in budgie smugglers yet not one looney leftist made jokes about it. Funny that

    • The Redman says:

      09:47pm | 02/05/11

      I’m amused that Rosie accuses Gillard of pandering to the popular vote. If that is the case, why are the polls so bad. I thought pandering to the fears and xenophobia of the uneducated masses was the role of Tony Abbott. It it’s not, he’s doing a damn good impression. Abbott, nor the current philosophy of the Liberal Party, will never appeal to the inteligensia, so they dumb it down for the LCD’s.

    • Paulb says:

      03:02pm | 02/05/11

      Election year coming, lots of money needed from the Elites to fund a campaign and get support from the media they own, economy in the toilet and still sinking, “Yes we Can” now looks like “Yes we didn’t”, environmental disasters thanks to NO oversight (thanks Mr Bush), so what to do????  I know! Trot out that old Bin Laden card, but this is the last time you’ll get to play it Sir.  No not the Muppet we used for that video in 2004, find some other guy like we did with Sheik Khaled Mohammed (the supposed 911 mastermind if everyone forgets about Dick Cheney long enough to believe it).  We’ll be controlling the media and the ID prodess so no one will ever know. 

      Wonder if they also found his four-wheel-drive dialysis machine that runs forever in waterless lands.

    • james says:

      03:33pm | 02/05/11

      Cue the nut-job conspiracy theorists. I was unaware that Islamabad was a waterless land.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      01:31pm | 12/05/11

      Gee! The government could never pull the wool over James’ eyes. The old knee jerk insults from those told what to think- and then question none of it,

      The term ‘false flag’ existed befor 9/11.

    • Rosie says:

      03:06pm | 02/05/11

      I wanted to hear what John Howard had to say but am satisfied to listen to Downer, Australia’s Foreign Minister at the time Bin Laden became the most wanted man in the world dead or alive

      I just hope Pakistan had collaborated with the US and wasn’t with Al Qaeda all along making Bin Laden’s capture a long difficult one.

    • Rosie says:

      04:42pm | 02/05/11

      John Howard did speak after the PM and if only?????? He echoed our PM who for a change spoke for the nation without “votes” on her mind. I guess it was the real Julia

    • Rick says:

      03:08pm | 02/05/11

      More lies….......? 1,000,000 dead Iraqis later

    • Erick says:

      03:28pm | 02/05/11

      Yep, Rick, that’s a lie.

    • Tom says:

      08:04am | 03/05/11

      Did the Iraquis killed by Saddam Hussein count?

    • Thomas Anderson says:

      03:10pm | 02/05/11

      Erick, for now the USA will overlook Pakistan. It is not time to invade them for good 3-4 years yet…

    • Erick says:

      03:29pm | 02/05/11

      Indeed, Thomas. The time is not yet ripe. But we are seeing more and more evidence about the nature and intentions of the Pakistani leadership.

    • marley says:

      03:44pm | 02/05/11

      I can’t see the US ever invading Pakistan.  Huge population,  large army, difficult terrain - and they’ve got nukes. 

      I think the problem there is not so much the intentions of the Pakistani leadership, so much as the schism in Pakistani leadership - the military and especially the ISI are sympathetic to radical islam; the civilians not so much, but they don’t really control the military.  That’s the crux of the problem.

    • DannyBoy says:

      04:53pm | 02/05/11

      Give it a couple of years and India will have to sort out Pakistan.

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:50pm | 02/05/11

      yes Thomas, after we’ve finished invading Iran…..  *yawn*

    • TChong says:

      03:35pm | 02/05/11

      The “: terrorsist” groups wont be too concerned.
      “Al Queda"as a noun , is much the same as ‘Nazis” -a generic term applied to all types of arab nationalism.
      At the moment , the more extreme advocates of arab nationalism are living in paradise , as the UK, US, France, literally drop weapons into their hands in western Libiya.
      The haste to topple Gaddafi has made for some strange bedfellows, as far as US / western foreign policy goes.
      For all of his “evilness” Gaddafi is well and truly very secular, much the same as Sadam was in Iraq
      Al Queda and Gaddafi were enemies, and in Libiya , the west is now bankrolling and arming militant groups, much like it did when Russia occupied Afghanistan.
      When Gaddafi goes, where will these fundamentalists take their weapons, and ideogy?
      The West has opened up a can of worms.

    • Erick says:

      03:45pm | 02/05/11

      For once, TChong - just for once - you’re making sense.

    • Jon says:

      05:23pm | 02/05/11

      From my info the rebels are more pro Al Qaeda than Gaddafi.  This is a very strange strategy

    • SWH says:

      03:39pm | 02/05/11

      Obviously symbolic, but the real question should be why now?  Let’s assume for the sake of this question that his presence there has been known for some time. Also strange it comes so quickly after the media coverage of ‘if he’s killed or captured there will be nuclear hell storm’.  I guess it reserves that option for US war planners amid dwindling support, or for some amped aggression towards Iran or others

    • Brasil says:

      07:18pm | 02/05/11

      Why assume that?

    • Darren says:

      03:46pm | 02/05/11

      and that is befroe BoF gets to stamp his authority in the NSW Parliament - no wonder stories about Michael Photios don’t scare him

    • Seano says:

      03:55pm | 02/05/11

      One of the favourite tactics of many conservative bloggers is to demand “Name me one achievement of….”. And then no matter what the achievement is to reject it out of hand. This achievement will be hard to reject, no matter what they say Obama will be the president who lead the government that got Bin Laden.

      Anyway I’m glad they got him.

    • Andrew says:

      04:50pm | 02/05/11

      The nut jobs over at Bolts blog are saying it was because Bush started the process.

      Can not satisfy those that are myopic on this subject.

      Cheers

    • Erick says:

      05:03pm | 02/05/11

      Well, Andrew, as a nutjob, how can you deny that Bush started the process?

    • Vote Quimby says:

      05:48pm | 02/05/11

      Agree with Erick, are you so myopic that you can’t acknowledge that Bush started this process? are you forgetting 9/11? obviously you are! I guess in your point of view, you could say Osama started the process himself because of all the terrorist attacks he has orchestrated!

    • Kathy says:

      06:42pm | 02/05/11

      Huge symbolic victory for the USA and a completely necessary one, given the total violation of their centres of government, culture & population on 11 September 2001.  Who can begrudge them their displays of elation at Ground Zero a decade later?  Bush began the counterpunch, Obama finished it…what else would any of us done if Sydney Harbour Bridge, Opera House & Parliament House Canberra had been attacked?

    • Seano says:

      06:42pm | 02/05/11

      Amazing considering the intel that lead to him being tracked down didn’t surface until recently.

      No matter how hard they try to spin it, Obama will be remembered as the president who got Bin Laden.

    • Tom says:

      08:41am | 03/05/11

      Andrew, Bush was one of the first to congratulate Obama. And Obama did not announce it in any other way than as good news for his country. They don’t seem to use national security events as a partisan point scoring exercise over there. Perhaps we could learn from them.

    • Seano says:

      09:49am | 03/05/11

      Of course that’s bullshit Tom. There are plenty in the US and obviously in the wacky world of Andrew Bolt claiming this as a victory for Bush. It’s not it’s a victory for Obama and justice and will be remembered as such despite the wishful thinking of many.

    • Tom says:

      12:34pm | 03/05/11

      Seano, I just looked at Bolt’s blog. Not a single reference to the so-called “wacky” bloggers claiming “its a victory for Bush”. You are full of it Seano.

      Bush was gracious, Obama was gracious. You say “It’s not, it’s a victory for Obama”. Why can’t you be gracious, Seano?

    • Seano says:

      02:35pm | 03/05/11

      @Tom - Sorry Tom, I mistook your “They” for the universal Americans “They”, not Bush and Obama personally. My mistake we where speaking at cross purposes. I was refering to those wacky people including some here, conservatives in America and those inhabiting the alternative universe that is Bolt’s blog claiming this as victory for Bush. Of course both leaders were gracious, shame the same could not be said about Howard.

      As I said initially no matter how conservatives spin it when they play the game Name me one achievement of Obama?” they will not be able to reject out of hand “He caught Bin Laden”.

      @Tiny mind Timmy - Grow up moron. You’ve never caught me being wrong or otherwise. you’re not interested in debate, you follow me around like the pathetic sad sack that you are because I am the centre of your universe and you can’t stand that fact that don’t give a shit about you although you clearly worship my every utterance. Grow up moron.

    • Tom says:

      03:19pm | 03/05/11

      @seano, I love the sound of backpedalling in the afternoon. Bolt world as you describe it just doesn’t exist. There’s a good chap.

    • TimB says:

      03:39pm | 03/05/11

      Seano, every time I’ve tried to debate you properly, you’ve responded with a variation of “I didn’t bother reading your post.” Usually trotted out whenever I’ve proved you wrong. You have the same reaction to others who dare contradict you. The only one not interested in a proper debate is you.

      Any time you want to defend your posts with rational arguments instead of childish insults, egotistical delusions of grandeur, and general wilful ignorance & denial, I’ll indulge you. But if you want to continue to carrry on like a whiny child, so be it.

      Kudos on the ‘not caring’ BTW, stellar job.

    • Seano says:

      03:49pm | 03/05/11

      @Tom - Oh the irony. You talk about graciousness when you also mistook what I said as I made no reference to the gracriousness or lack there of, of Bush or Obama.

      Clearly there was fault on both sides. I was “gracious” enough to admit I missed part of your point but you couldn’t help trip yourself up with that moronic and completely ungracious comment.

      Clearly you wouldn’t know gracious if it bit you in the arse.

      BTW. As teary as it might make you, you can’t get around my original contention. Getting Bin Laden will always be seen as a win for Obama.

      Cue: Moronic, irrelevant, personal and ignoring the real topic comment from Timmy he does worship me so.

    • Seano says:

      04:02pm | 03/05/11

      @Sad Little Timmy - “Seano, every time I’ve tried to debate you properly, you’ve responded with a variation of “I didn’t bother reading your post.” “

      Where have you ever tried to debate me ever?

      You come in with personal attacks and then burst into tears when you cop it back. Your first post here does not address the issue being raised it’s a personal attack. When you behave like a low life moron Timmy you reap what you sow.

      As far as not reading your comments:
      1. I don’t read anything you post to this blog. I don’t post replies to your comments, I don’t care about you or your opinions.

      2. I scan the lame personal attacks you post on my comments and repond in kind. This upsets you because you’re a sad little girly man.

      3. At some point I grow bored of playing slanging match with Timmy the moron so I stop reading your comments altogether. Life is too short and you’re too dumb to be a good troll.

      “Any time you want to defend your posts with rational arguments instead of childish insults, egotistical delusions of grandeur, and general wilful ignorance & denial, I’ll indulge you.”

      Not only are you stupid but you’re arrogant. Your only comments on this thread have been personal attacks. You’re the one not interested in debate you’re only interested in silencing your betters. Unfortunately for you that includes just about everyone with a pulse.

      Time to grow up moron.

      PS. “Kudos on the ‘not caring’ BTW, stellar job. “

      You follow me. I don’t follow or care about you. Clearly I am your god.

    • dolt world says:

      04:10pm | 03/05/11

      Bolt world, Bizarro world - same difference
      Inhabited by lobotomised morons.

    • TimB says:

      04:35pm | 03/05/11

      On topic Seano? Here’s some on topic for you:

      “@Tom - Oh the irony. You talk about graciousness when you also mistook what I said as I made no reference to the gracriousness or lack there of, of Bush or Obama. “

      He never said you did.

      ” I was refering to those wacky people including some here, conservatives in America and those inhabiting the alternative universe that is Bolt’s blog claiming this as victory for Bush.”

      He knows that. See?:

      “Seano, I just looked at Bolt’s blog. Not a single reference to the so-called “wacky” bloggers claiming “its a victory for Bush”. You are full of it Seano.”

      Cue your rambling post about how Tom has misread what you said, and you going on and on about an entirely different argument.

      You’re the talking about “wacky bloggers claiming it as a victory for Bush”, and Tom is telling you that’s not happening. That’s the argument at play here. And the one you ignored.

      I’m actually a little perplexed by your claim. I mean given your often-stated claim to ‘not read Bolt’, it’s rather amazing that you profess to know so much about what the bloggers over there are apparently saying.

      But I suppose when you’re arrogant & delusional enough to claim god status, claiming omnipotence isn’t exactly a stretch.

      “BTW. As teary as it might make you, you can’t get around my original contention. Getting Bin Laden will always be seen as a win for Obama.”

      I don’t think anyone here has actually claimed otherwise. Hard for you to claim a win for something no-one here was actually challenging you on.
      However I will contend that Bush had his part to play too. Both him and Obama deserve credit.
      And I believe that’s what Tom was getting at with his gracious comment- Bush & Obama recognize each other’s contributions. We’re recognizing Obama’s. Can you recognize Bush’s?

      Alternatively, feel free to tell me how you’re ignoring my post, call me a name, and descend into your usual deity fantasies. Up to you.

    • Seano says:

      05:36pm | 03/05/11

      Poor timmy. you’re not even smart enough to be a good troll.

      Cherry picking, misrepresenting what’s been said and changing the order in which it’s been said is dumb. Even for you.

    • TimB says:

      06:32pm | 03/05/11

      1. “Where have you ever tried to debate me ever?”

      Many, many times. In fact here is (according to my memory anyway) the first ever exchange with you. It even predates the “B”.

      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/politics-macbeth-style/#comment-158267

      And look, the first example of you delivering excuses & running from a point of mine you have no answer to:

      “@Tim your argument is one of convenience to give yourself a point. Sorry if you have to set your own boundarderies so you can win the argument it’s really not much of a game.”

      A habit you’ve continued over time, culminating in the standard ‘I didn’t read your posts, but I will still state my general opinion of it anyway’ rubbish.

      2. “You come in with personal attacks and then burst into tears when you cop it back. Your first post here does not address the issue being raised it’s a personal attack. “

      Don’t get on your high horse about personal attacks. You’re hardly guilt free. And in this particular case let’s just do a comparison:

      I stated my disbelief you could be gracious (seeing as I’ve seen no evidence of such behaviour from you prior), and I pointed out your propensity for acting like a “petulant child” when proven wrong, backed up by evidence.

      You simply went for the intellectually vapid “moron”.

      But hey, it’s just one thread. Let’s have a looksee. Ooh what’s this? Another attempt of mine to engage in a proper discussion?

      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/flood-victims-ripped-off-by-greedy-insurers/#comment-308828

      No insults. No snide comments. Just a straight statement. Your response?

      “@Timmy - You don’t meet the IQ or age requirements for adult conversation. “

      Charming.

      3.“You’re the one not interested in debate you’re only interested in silencing your betters.”

      For starters when did I ever claim I wanted anyone silenced? It’s sad that you have to make things up like this.

      More importantly though how can you claim that *I’m* the one not interested in debate when you come out with crap like this?

      “I don’t read anything you post to this blog. I don’t post replies to your comments, I don’t care about you or your opinions.”

      Exactly how am I supposed to have a debate when you have that kind of attitude? Like I said, I’ll have a debate when you start acting like a mature adult. As long as you insist on petty behaviour such as this, I’ll stick to simply giving your opinions the ridicule they deserve.

      PS. The only arrogant one here is the person claiming to be a god.

      PPS. I note you ignored the arguments from my last post. More excuses designed to help you avoid arguments you know you can’t win.
      I fully expect you to dismiss this post too, but I’ve come to expect that kind of cowardly behaviour from you.

    • Seano says:

      07:07pm | 03/05/11

      @Dimmy -

      1. Cheer picking the occasions you’ve tried to engage in debate AFTER posting a personal attack and being called for the tolll you are is meaningless, cowardly and stupid.

      2. On this very thread you have NOT attempted one on topic comment.

      The defence rests. You are a troll.  Your lack of an on topic comment on this thread means you are damned by your own hand.

      PS. Considering the hours of work you’ve put into this bollocks, how can I not be your God?

    • The Doctore says:

      07:39pm | 03/05/11

      I have studied the dialogue in question and after careful deliberation have come to the conclusion the timmie is indeed a troll.
      Furthermore, I have determined that timmie’s sole purpose in visiting the punch is to troll genuine contributors to the debate.

      In my opinion, timmie does this inadvertently as he believes he is still wearing the avatar of some role playing game he otherwise lives in. Alas, this condition can only be treated by specialist avatar therapists in timmies alternate reality world.

    • TimB says:

      08:04pm | 03/05/11

      How exactly are posts dated from months ago, considered to be *after* the personal attacks on this thread? Do you and logic have even a passing aquaintance? Do you understand the linear flow of time at all? The concepts of past, present & future?

      You asked when have I *ever* attempted to debate you. Now you’re attempting to dismiss it simply because it’s not on *this* thread. What moronically stupid reasoning.

      You cannot realistically expect anyone to be able to debate you as long as you claim to ignore their posts and have no interests in their opinion.  You cannot expect rational debate if you label anyone who dares challenge you as a troll.

      This is an opinion site. Designed for comments and replies. It’s not *my* fault that you’re so utterly thin-skinned that you cannot handle criticism of your posts.
      You can whine “troll” all you like. It doesn’t make it true, and it doesn’t change the fact that *you’re* the one that refuses to engage in a proper debate by ignoring any posts that burst your arguments.

      PS. How would you have any clue how long I’m spending on this? Unless you’re secretly spying on me which is just plain creepy.

    • TimB says:

      08:38pm | 03/05/11

      Congratulations Seano, you’ve got Badger agreeing with you. He’s about the only one who does.

    • Seano says:

      08:30am | 04/05/11

      “Congratulations Seano, you’ve got Badger agreeing with you. He’s about the only one who does. “

      Congratulations Dimmy on now speaking for the whole world.

      Your arrogant stupidity clearly knows no bounds.

    • Seano says:

      09:07am | 04/05/11

      “How exactly are posts dated from months ago, considered to be *after* the personal attacks on this thread? “

      Your first comment on any thread is a personal attack. You still have yet to post a single on topic comment on this thread. Not one!

      You are one sad individual. But we do have one thing in common. We both search on the name “Seano”.

    • TimB says:

      11:02am | 04/05/11

      1. “Your first comment on any thread is a personal attack.”

      As I stated:

      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/politics-macbeth-style/#comment-158267
      http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/flood-victims-ripped-off-by-greedy-insurers/#comment-308828

      Two examples of threads where I have attempted a proper debate with you. Both thread show my initial posts *without* personal attacks.

      In the first thread you run away from answering my point because you don’t want to admit my assertion. In the second thread *you*, thats right YOU, start the completely unwarranted personal attacks.

      So ““Your first comment on any thread is a personal attack.”= Wrong.

      2. “You still have yet to post a single on topic comment on this thread. Not one!”

      Check my post on *THIS* thread on the following timestamp:

      TimB says:04:35pm | 03/05/11

      Oh look.  An on-topic comment. On this thread. Which you gave some lame excuse about being “out of order” and so and made no attempt to adress them Way to engage in debate Seano.

      So “You still have yet to post a single on topic comment on this thread. Not one!”= Wrong again.

      Jeeze, two sentences, two times I’ve proven you wrong. For somene who claims I never prove you wrong, that’s an awfully bad strike rate.

      3. “You are one sad individual. But we do have one thing in common. We both search on the name “Seano”

      Oh damn, three from three wrong. You just can’t take a trick can you. I don’t search for your name. I read the threads, sometimes I stumble onto something stupid that you’ve said, and I respond. 
      And you kick up a hissy fit every time. Like I keep telling you, if you don’t like it, stop posting stupid things.

      “Congratulations Dimmy on now speaking for the whole world. “

      Alright Seano, show me a post from *one* person besides Badger or his numerous alter-egos who agrees with your “troll” label Seano.

      One. Just one. I dare you.

      The burden of proof is on *you* to prove people agree with you, not on *me* to prove that *everyone* in the world doesn’t. I know this is asking a lot but, *please* don’t be stupid.

      In the meantime I can produce a whole host of posts from various people who agree with *my* ever falling opinion of you.

      PS. Wow, look at all the time you spend replying to me. I mean coming back the next day to continue where we left off last night? By your logic that makes me your god doesn’t it?

      It’s ok. I don’t need you to pray to me or anything. I know you crave that sort of devotion in order to justify your own existence, but I’ve got other sources of validation.

    • Seano says:

      11:49am | 04/05/11

      Your first example is from a year ago…you had to go that far back to find an example where you started a comment without a personal attack. You should be embarrassed.

      And what happened with that? When you attack my arguments I attack yours. I got no more personal than you did.

      Then your second example several months later,  after months of continually following me around with personal attacks you get upset because I refuse in a fairly blunt manner to engage with you when you choose to try and be a grown up?  Suck it up princess, It doesn’t work like that.

      I choose not to read or comment on your posts because you and your opinion on anything are worthless. If you want engage me in debate you’re going to have to do better than 6 months of personal attacks as a lead in. Only a complete moron would expect that the target of their admitted campaign of cyber bullying would then want to engage in a conversation with them after months of attacks.

      But when you attack me personally I return serve which causes you to burst into tears. How big a sook are you? Of course your problem is you’ve given up trying to win the argument so all you have is to get personal.

      You can’t get around the fact that it is you who follow me. It is you who is obsessed with me.

      My assessment of you as a troll is mine. I don’t need nor seek anyone’s support for this assessment. You do plenty to back me up with your continued childish personal attacks.

      I win this argument simply on the fact that you still have not posted one on topic comment to this thread.

    • TimB says:

      12:47pm | 04/05/11

      “Your first example is from a year ago…you had to go that far back to find an example where you started a comment without a personal attack”

      Yet you acknowledge that my second example is from a mere 2 months ago. How far back did I have to go again? Does it hurt when you constantly trip over your own contradictions?

      FYI I *chose* to go that far back. I did it to show that you have NEVER been interested in debate from day ONE. Because despite your claim you *didn’t* attack my argument. You made an excuse to ignore it. Like you ignore all arguments that are inconvenient for you.

      “I choose not to read or comment on your posts because you and your opinion on anything are worthless.”

      This is why it’s impossible to debate you. You constantly make excuses as to why you won’t engage with someone (me) who is clearly much smarter than you are.  Any insults you’ve ever recieved from me would be responses to your above admitted arrogant attitude.

      You’re the one with the habit of automatically ignoring & dismissing inconvenient arguments, then coming up with lame excuses to justify it.

      You’re the one with the habit of referring to anyone you disagree with a lame playground rendition of their name, and then following it up with other insults.

      You refer to me as a troll, *purely* because I call you on the bullshit you post and you cannot handle it .

      You are an immature, moronic, arrogant, hateful, egomonaical,and disagreeable person. Any insults you DO receive are *fully deserved*.

      “I win this argument simply on the fact that you still have not posted one on topic comment to this thread. “

      No you don’t, you lose AGAIN, because as I stated (& you keep making excuses to ignore), I have a perfectly good on-topic argument on this thread at 04:35pm | 03/05/11

      PS. “Admitted campaign of cyber bullying”? Find me one post where I admited that. Once again you throw out lies and bullcrap and arrogantly act as if it’s autmatically true. Guess what loser, you don’t have that kind of universal control no matter how many times you claim to be a god.

    • Seano says:

      04:10pm | 04/05/11

      You can find one example in a year.

      And this only after all your other repeated and continued personal attacks in your admitted personal campaign of cyber bullying. Does it hurt to be a moron?

      It is you who follows me.

      It is you who constantly posts personal attacks.

      It is you who has failed to make one on topic contribution to this thread.

      Therefore I am your God.

    • TimB says:

      05:06pm | 04/05/11

      “You can find one example in a year”

      Actually I found two examples. I currently credit you with the intelligence of a 6-year old, but even 6 year olds can count to two. Looks like I’ll have to keep revising my estimate downwards.

      You clearly don’t know the definition of “example” either.

      “Example- noun
      1. one of a number of things, or a part of something, taken to show the character of the whole”

      Just because I only posted 2 examples does not mean they’re the only two. There’s plent of times I’ve debated you fairly without insults. And on many of those occasions you’ve responded with either deliberate dismissals of the argument raised and/or childish insults you’ve learned from the primary school kids you teach.


      “admitted personal campaign of cyber bullying”

      Doesn’t exist.  I’ve never admitted this, and you have yet to produce a post where I have. You’re making things up. Constantly saying something does not make it true.

      All I’m doing is poking holes in your weak and stupid arguments. That’s the point of an opinion blog. If you can’t handle that, if you have to constantly cry “bully” or “troll” like a whiny child, then you need to grow a thicker skin.

      “It is you who constantly posts personal attacks.”

      So do you. Stop sooking and get over it.

      “It is you who has failed to make one on topic contribution to this thread.”

      Repeatedly proven wrong.  See post at 04:35pm | 03/05/11.

      Again, you can repeat things all you like. It doesn’t make them true.

      “Therefore I am your God.”

      Blooody hell how many times do I have to explain that repetition=/= truth? You’re not very quick on the uptake are you?

      Continue living in your fantasy land of denial.

    • Seano says:

      05:47pm | 04/05/11

      These are the facts:

      You constantly follow me around posting personal attacks. I do not follow you around.

      You are not interested in debate, you still have not attempted one on topic post in this thread. This thread is typical of your idea of “debating”.

      The hours you have spent on this thread demonstrate how much you worship me. I am after all the centre of your universe and remain your God.

      Get a life and grow up moron.

    • TimB says:

      06:35pm | 04/05/11

      None of the things you have posted are facts.

      You are wrong. I have constantly proven you wrong.

      You are god of nothing but a land of fantasy and denial.

    • Seano says:

      07:31pm | 04/05/11

      You follow me around posting personal attacks.

      This thread is yet another example of that. Only a moron would deny it.

      You are deluded into thinking that this constitutes clever or debating.

      You have not posted a single on topic comment on this thread.

      I win. I am your God. See you next time you are desperate for my attention.

    • TimB says:

      06:08am | 05/05/11

      You post many personal attacks of your own because you are a hateful and nasty person. This is why you also attract many personal attacks. All are justified. You are not an innocent victim being picked on.

      I’m willing to bet that the first attack ever was thrown by you way back when. Because the only only reason I attack you is because you have a *proven and admitted* arrogant attitude of not being interested in debate. You “ignore” people’s posts you disagree with. You throw insults at those people. You run like a coward from arguments you cannot win. Anything I do is in *retalliation* to *your behaviour*.


      My original post on this thread was that you are ungracious and cannot admit when you are wrong. This thread is proof of that. You have not been gracious. You have been proven wrong many times. Yet you keep spouting the same lies. I have posted an on-topic response. You have ignored it.

      You are uninterested in debate and have never been interested in debate for as long as I have been posting here.

      Your fragile ego means you cannot admit when you are wrong *ever*.

      Your lack of grace leads you to instead throw personal attacks at the people who have proved you wrong because your ego is so fragile you cannot handle it.

      This thread proves my original post.

      I win.

    • Seano says:

      08:03am | 05/05/11

      Moron, I respond to your personal attacks in kind. You call me a hateful nasty person because I give back to you exactly what you dish out. Which means that you’re weak, gutless and stupid. Remember it is you who follows me not the other way around.

      I did not read past the first moronic line. You’ve wasted your time with your lies, delusions and bullshit again.

      Facts:
      You follow me not the other way around.

      You post personal abuse instead of debate.

      You can dish it but you can’t take it like most bullies.

      You are obsessed with me.

      Your constant worship of me and desparate desire for my attention means that I am the centre of universe.

    • Usama says:

      04:05pm | 02/05/11

      world war 3 is just around the corner

    • Steve says:

      05:14pm | 02/05/11

      Most unlikely

    • Andy D says:

      04:07pm | 02/05/11

      I wish they had been able to take him alive.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      08:50pm | 02/05/11

      That was never going to happen whilst the Yanks were in charge

    • Greg says:

      01:36am | 03/05/11

      I think that the Yanks would have preferred to take him alive, but I remember reading that bin Laden had ordered his bodyguards to shoot him if he was in danger of being captured alive.

    • roberta says:

      11:14am | 04/05/11

      Pretty hard considering he died 10 years ago

    • Wazza says:

      04:08pm | 02/05/11

      Firstly expect some arrests around the world in the next few days, I would imagine quite a bit of inteligence was gathered.
      Secondly, dont think for a minute that the Taliban will continue with its support of Al Queda now Bin Ladin is dead. That deal is done. Their spring offensive will barely get of the ground now and the moderates will be looking to join a coalition government in Kabul on the proviso of a reduction in foreign forces

    • Steve says:

      04:59pm | 02/05/11

      I hope you are right Wazza. 2011 has been a crazy year so far so nothing can be ruled out.

    • Marilyn Shepherd says:

      04:08pm | 02/05/11

      And how many times is this now that the CIA have killed their own operative?

      OBL has been dead more times than I have had hot breakfasts and hundreds of thousands of innocent people have died in the process.

      I hope he was worth the estimated $3 trillion + the US spent on him.

    • Mick In The Hills says:

      05:58pm | 02/05/11

      Could have been worse, Marilyn, he could have turned up on Christmas Island, and us fools would have pandered to his every whim at our expense forevermore.  And then he’d bring all his tribe in as well.

      And you’d complain we didn’t give them free legal defence in the US Courts.

    • The Redman says:

      09:50pm | 02/05/11

      Mick, stay in the hills. And climb higher.

    • qwerty1 says:

      04:21pm | 02/05/11

      Its kind of sad how people dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand. Could someone please go watch 9/11 loose change, then honestly tell me how and why it doesnt make sense that it was a government run operation…. rather than a terrorist attack.

      “When you rule out the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth”

      I honestly believe it was impossible that a plane hit the pentagon, and that the towers collapsed due to planes hitting them, or that the other flight crash landed in the ground.

    • Warren says:

      05:24pm | 02/05/11

      Its a same when conspiracy nuts can’t handle the truth.

    • Rev says:

      06:18pm | 02/05/11

      Lol, loose change - so utterly debunked.

    • MarK says:

      06:19pm | 02/05/11

      For some, unless the truth plays out in extreme slow motion (with a pause and rewind button), there is no truth wink

    • Monkey Boy says:

      06:57pm | 02/05/11

      While we are quoting, let me throw this one in, courtesy of Lisa Simpson, “You Sir, are a baboon.”

    • I like rabbits says:

      04:27pm | 02/05/11

      What a shame. He seemed like such a lovely young man didn’t he.

    • Faybian says:

      07:23pm | 02/05/11

      Hahaha and a stylish dresser too.

    • Robert Smissen, rural SA, God's own country says:

      08:53pm | 02/05/11

      David Hicks seemed to have liked him

    • Semi Concerned Citizen says:

      04:29pm | 02/05/11

      If the boogie man is dead who then becomes the boogie man, mmm new war time perhaps.
      Maybe Kim Jong ill Mad 2 jr, or Gaddafi’s 3rd cousin .

    • Joeyjoejoejnr says:

      04:31pm | 02/05/11

      So I guess Osama has now had about 24 hours to get used to the faact that he isn’t getting the hundreds of Virgins he thought he was getting

    • Amelia says:

      04:41pm | 02/05/11

      R.I.P Osama Bin Laden - World Hide And Go Seek Champion (2001 - 2011)

    • Skip says:

      08:14am | 03/05/11

      If you’re going to post a joke, at least be original and make it one of your own, not one that has been circling the ‘net.

    • Steve says:

      04:56pm | 02/05/11

      When was the last conspiracy theory less exciting than the truth. Sometimes the truth is quite boring and an exciting conspiacy theory is preferable.

    • Brasil says:

      05:01pm | 02/05/11

      I’ve seen each of the three versions of loose change a dozen or so times. There are three versions because the first version - the one you are talking about - was proven wrong collectively they Are the biggest load of horseshit on the Internet. If you do five minutes of googling you’d find dozens of credible refutations of pretty much every point in any of the versions.

      But ill humor you Was it the Jews then? Did they use termite charges?

    • james says:

      05:18pm | 02/05/11

      Same goes for the “Zeirgist” documentary and the London bombing conspiracy theories, totally discredited and shown to be driven by a bunch of whackos. It saddens me greatly that some of my friends have bought into this 9/11 conspiracy crap. You really must be a bit on the simple side to buy into such idiotic nonsense.

    • EnJaySee says:

      05:46pm | 02/05/11

      I don’t know off the top of my head, but I think it was radio controlled nano-thermite laser bombs that made pancakes

    • paul kennedy says:

      05:42pm | 02/05/11

      I dont think its a big deal its just the will of Allah lmao .Right wack to a putrid camel faker.He wont be getting any virgins either ...I think its the best thing ive seen happen in 50 years of living .
      Allah aktbar god is great

    • chris ozman says:

      05:54pm | 02/05/11

      Having had some time to give it some thought it becomes obvious why the Pakistanis insisted on being in on the raid despite the internal political ramifications. They simply wanted to make sure he was killed and not taken captive. Bin Laden would give away the whole connection with ISI and certain military and political insiders. It was a choice of 2 evils, the wrath of much of the Pakistani populace, or of a seriously pissed off nuclear-armed superpower you’d taken $10 billion from under false pretences and been lying to for years.

      I think they made a wise choice.

    • marley says:

      02:46pm | 03/05/11

      So far as I’ve heard, the Pakistanis weren’t in on the raid at all - the Americans just went ahead and did it without telling them.  Sounds like there might just be an issue of trust there.

    • MarK says:

      05:58pm | 02/05/11

      Ding Dong! The Witch is dead.

      What a day. I haven’t seen so many kooky conspiracy theories spring out the woodwork since I watched the whole first season of the X-Files in one sitting.

      Reading them, I can’t help but think that it must be hard to be middle aged and anti-USA. Bolshevism died in the arse, America voted in a black president and now OBL took a head shot. That must be why there are so many practitioners of failing lefty-lunatic-fringe ideologies ‘pointing the bone’ at Gen Y. That’s all they have left…apart from bun fights with the Boltists.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      07:53pm | 02/05/11

      I could never be anti USA. It’s like flogging a dying horse- cruel and heartless…...

    • Steven says:

      09:37pm | 02/05/11

      The USA is a wonderful and very important place…It is where we can keep all the Americans.

    • MarK says:

      10:39pm | 02/05/11

      Running out of buns, ay guys?

    • michael j says:

      06:20pm | 02/05/11

      Osama bin Laden ,,hopefully responsible for 100.000 deaths WHO KNOWS ?
      Yippe,THE BAD WOLFS DEAD,,
      9 million to die of starvation this year,any takers ,no ones fault x 6 years
      54 million dead ?  body count bigger than WW2
      still if bin laden’s death changes the world good,

    • Jnr Architect says:

      06:23pm | 02/05/11

      I like how every person who calls conspiracy theorists crazy use the NIST report… Nist said that they saw no reason to check the tower’s debris for Thermite because they knew they wouldn’t find it. And if they did happen to find it, it would “most likely” be from the other stuff in the office… How could they make such an assertion, when it was a possibility. No investigator would assume they know what did or didn’t cause an incident otherwise why do the investigation…

      Over 1 thousand architects and engineers want a new investigation because of building 7.

      NIST’s latest statement was “The collapse of world trade centre 7 was primarily due to fires,” said by Shyam Sunder.

      You would have to know absolutely nothing about physics to believe that lie. You’re saying fires removed concrete slabs to produce over 100 feet of FREE FALL. It can’t happen and anyone who isn’t gullible knows it.

      WHERE’S THE RESISTANCE?

      The problem with people who believe in the official story is that to believe the other implication is to have the core of your future and your security deeply left in the balance.

      The whole reason people continue to believe in the official story is a psychological one. To voice an opinion that isn’t “in with the crowd” was in tribal times a death sentence because you would be kicked out of the tribe. It’s a hardwired psychological problem. To believe that it wasn’t extremists also shakes their security and comfort to the core. There was a study done where endorphins are released when unpleasant truth is rejected because it’s to protect your world view.

      Feel sorry for people who believe in politicians and government funded scientists as telling you the truth.

    • Steve says:

      06:50pm | 02/05/11

      Is that why so many people believe in AGW? The trouble is Jnr that the official story is believable. Is it possible that Your architects are wrong and it was planes? The risk/return doesn’t stack up to support a self inflicted WTC scenario. A massive risk not comensurate with any perceived gain. These things can’t be kept secret. Someone involved would have come forward surely?

    • Brasil says:

      07:13pm | 02/05/11

      No, the reason that they believe it is that there is not a single piece of credible evidence that it isn’t true and that it accurately describes the known facts.

    • John says:

      08:24pm | 02/05/11

      You do realise that steal and any other object can melt. Every object in the world has a melting point. The building in 911 were built to with stand if I correct 747 the aircraft of the time they were built. What crashed into them was 767 a larger and more fuel laden aircraft. The fuel from this caused the fire and inturn caused the structure come unstable as not just from the damage the aircraft had done but also from the sheer heat of the fire. This caused the steal frames to melt and inturn the building collapsed.

      Anyone with even a basic knowledge of pyshics knows this so i guess you dont.

      Ill point out another theory that has a small amount of evidence. All muslims who were to work that day were told not to got to work but hey lets just believe it cos its a conspiracy theory.

    • chris ozman says:

      09:53pm | 02/05/11

      Look, I personally found a change in medication can work wonders. Not saying it’s for you, just worked really well for me. No clown faces swallowing tadpoles on the wall at night, no cane toads floating on family size chocolate bars in the toilet bowl anymore and those naughty little Zionists in the garden shed, just completely disappeared.

    • Septimus says:

      05:10am | 03/05/11

      Jnr,

      What’s your theory?

    • Adam Craig says:

      06:36pm | 02/05/11

      To paraphrase Tom Cruise… SHOW US THE BODY!

    • lilly says:

      06:43pm | 02/05/11

      i will not believe it until i see the body

    • Greg says:

      01:41am | 03/05/11

      Too late. Already been “buried at sea”. Along with Obama’s birth certificate.

    • Groompy Tom says:

      06:46pm | 02/05/11

      Obama didn’t get invited to the Royal wedding so he decided to steal their limelight, what a child!
      Meanwhile, the world’s Hide and Seek community mourns the loss of the greatest player ever.

    • Glenda says:

      10:26am | 04/05/11

      It was all about diverting attention from the birth certificate. Mayday is a strong pagan ritual day.

    • The Sheik says:

      06:51pm | 02/05/11

      My family and I live in the Arabian Peninsula. I sure hope there’s no low level “amateurish” responses. They cost lives too.
      The question now is not what will Al Qaeda do, but what will Iran do, or what will happen in Pakistan, or Yemen? The (very rushed I’m sure) quick analysis Matthew Gray has put forward is pretty simplistic, and very optimistic. Just in case anyone not living in that part of the world hasn’t noticed, followers of Al Qaeda and affiliated groups, including governments, take this stuff extremely seriously. Their hatred for all things western is now ingrained after just over a generation since the Shah of Iran was removed by the manouvering of US/UK foreign policies.
      There will be no easing of hostilities. In fact, the fractured remnants of Al Qaeda will provide even more problems for intelligence agencies.
      The “Coalition” should take this very timely opportunity to pack up their bags and leave Arabia and Western Asia to the Arabs and Islam. There’s plenty of oil and gas elsewhere in the world (Asia, Indonesia, Australia, Gulf of Mexico, Alaska, Antarctica) to go around, and it’s quite obvious they don’t want any Europeans / Americans there. Truth be told, if you lived here, you would understand. It’s a shithole beyond comprehension, and if all Euro / American citizens departed, it would fall over in 50 years.

    • The Redman says:

      09:42pm | 02/05/11

      That won’t happen, and I suspect that you are westerners living in Arabia.
      The place is a shithole? Why are you living there then? Oh yes. The Filthy Lucre.

    • The Sheik says:

      10:23pm | 02/05/11

      Indeed we are westerners living in Arabia. Indeed we are here for the filthy lucre. Actually, the lucre isn’t that filthy. It’s quite clean.
      Thanks for not qualifying your statement “that won’t happen.” It really showed your grasp on the situation; none.
      Don’t pontificate unless you live in The Vatican, fool.

    • Dark Horse says:

      11:36pm | 02/05/11

      I spent a very happy, interesting and informative three years in the United Arab Emirates 90% of whose population is expatriates. The 800,000 Emiratis have wealth from oil and squander a lot of it in places like Dubai and on overseas sex and shopping trips etc. Without the expats, the country would grind to a halt overnight; no power, no hospitals, no water, no nothing. The natives can’t weld, fix toilets, repair cars, or do much of the grunt work that needs to be done in any community if it is to survive. Because of this, the UAE is very safe. Islam is the national religion and ideology and Sharia law rules, but they are to a great extent secular and thus tolerant of others with different ideologies and religions. It’s unlikely that there will be too much trouble in those Arab Middle East countries that aren’t “shitholes”, however, there are no certainties with Arabs and Islam.

    • stephen says:

      01:21am | 03/05/11

      The only thing the Saudis have invested in the West is its money : about 1.2 trillion dollars in the US.
      If The Middle East doesn’t like us, then they should ignore us…money and all.

    • fml says:

      09:41am | 03/05/11

      “Their hatred for all things western”

      You seem to be doing ok? Maybe we should send this comment to the secret police

    • T 9000 says:

      07:11pm | 02/05/11

      “No investigator would assume they know what did or didn’t cause an incident otherwise why do the investigation… ” “Over 100 architects….” What about the other, say 5000 000 architects in the world? What do they think?
      Hahahahahahahahaha.
      You idiot. Really. IDIOT.
      Fairly sure I saw a couple of airplanes crash into those buildings. Looked pretty real to me, and felt pretty real to the 3000+ families who lost members in the event.
      Your point of view, is of course, noted.
      Your belief in a conspiracy theory is taken with all the seriousness it deserves.
      Now put the tin foil back on your head, turn on Fox News, dash out to Area 51 and get probed.
      With a missile.

    • Brasil says:

      07:30pm | 02/05/11

      He’s much more likely to dash off to a meeting of the Greens than turn on Fox News, I’d suggest.

    • Nick says:

      08:01pm | 02/05/11

      Looking forward to seeing how this pans out to get the US into Iran - the obvious end-game.

    • TheRealDave says:

      12:04am | 03/05/11

      yes yes…Iran… *yawn*...never gets old….

    • Martin says:

      09:31am | 07/05/11

      Haven’t read the ‘Path to Persia’ then Dave? Gee, would have though you’d be better informed…

    • John says:

      08:05pm | 02/05/11

      God bless our victorious modern day Navy Seal crusader knights.

      Dont f with the USA or its allies

    • Col sanders says:

      03:51am | 03/05/11

      Well if you believe successive kiss and tell stories from former British SAS they armed and trained Uncle Osama and other now Taliban commanders to fight against the Russians at the behest of the Americans. This is the first time however I can remember the U.S. admitting to planning and taking responsibility for a sanctioned assassination, other than in the movies of course.

    • jg says:

      08:10pm | 02/05/11

      Cue the hand wringers.

      Oh, they’re already here.

    • PR says:

      08:13pm | 02/05/11

      bin laden dead? just because the news said so or a politician said so, do you believe it then? where’s the photos like the sadaam photos to prove they even found him? or is this Obama trying to make light of a bad situation in America’s economy? anyhoo, it’s better than bad news i suppose.

    • Daniel says:

      08:37pm | 02/05/11

      I dont think he is actually dead yet. The picture ha been faked already. I dont think Saddam is dead either.

    • Seano says:

      09:35pm | 02/05/11

      And I’m sure the fat bloke in the white jump suit and gold sunglasses who lives at the other of my street is Elvis.

    • PK says:

      09:07pm | 02/05/11

      I wish Aus had the patriotism the USA has.

    • The Redman says:

      09:44pm | 02/05/11

      Then go and live there.

    • Waynevan says:

      09:14pm | 02/05/11

      The world is a better place with OBL not in it but I question will it be a safer place? Bin Laden has been no more than a figure head for Islamist terrorists for the past several years and will continue to be after his death, perhaps even more so. There are plenty of evil people out there who are perfectly capable of doing their evil without Bin Laden around.

    • Mark says:

      07:34am | 03/05/11

      I just get the feeling that this will be a win-win for Al Qaeda. Win 1 - according to the reports OBL died in a gun fight with US operatives, so they will claim he died a martyr and rally the troops to ‘the cause’. Win 2 - he evaded capture for so long, that if he had ended up dying of natural causes aged say 80, they could have claimed that he defied the US. Either way, while the relatives of the 9/11 attacks can (hopefully) have some feeling of justice, the supporters of OBL I think will get more out of his death.

    • Skip says:

      08:16am | 03/05/11

      I still feel there’s something very suspicious about this whole thing. First Al Jazeera and certain US media report that the body was being kept at Baghram air base and that reporters were allowed to go in and view the body, then within the hour they changed their minds and said they’d dumped him in the sea. Who is telling the truth?

    • Tony says:

      09:29am | 03/05/11

      It must be hell inside your head at times…...round and round and round and .......

    • Peter says:

      09:16am | 03/05/11

      If he is REALLY dead, why did not the yanks show the world see his body? They show us Saddam Hussian so why not Bin Laden? I bet this ‘body’’ was a lookalike.

    • Tony says:

      09:27am | 03/05/11

      Got to wonder at the nervous nellies who predict this will unleash some form of massive retaliation. You mean to say the terrorists haven’t really been serious up till now? You mean they just didn’t really want to use their nasty bombs and things but now are forced to? Get real. We will see about as much retaliation as the allies saw after taking out Hitler.

      And if the US have enough intelligence to locate and kill Osama then they have the intelligence they need to take out the 2IC and so on.

      This is an unequivocal victory for the US that has resulted from Bush having the guts to go into Afghanistan and Obama having the tenacity (well sort of) to stay the distance.

    • Thommo says:

      11:42am | 03/05/11

      Enjoying your kool-Aid? Is it Lime?

    • Harquebus says:

      10:58am | 03/05/11

      If I was stupid enough to install that Flash ‘brown smelly stuff’, I could watch the video but, I ain’t that stupid.

    • Thommo says:

      11:26am | 03/05/11

      OBL died 10 years ago. Whatreallyhappened has been reporting it with evdience the whole time. Is it any wonder then that they were taken down by DDOS minutes before Obama’s announcement. I think not. This is just more wag the dog propaganda readying us for a retaliation strike (false flag of course) by Al-Qaeda (read Mossad/CIA) that the US can then invade Pakistand and the rest of the MIddle East fulfilling it’s own PNAC objectives. The info is all available to those with open minds. But the sheeple can just go on beleiveing that the USA really did kill OBL last week.

    • Muttley says:

      12:10pm | 03/05/11

      Lol. Lose your pills did you?

    • remlap says:

      12:32pm | 03/05/11

      In other news, the price of aluminium ore just skyrocketed due to an unexpected spike in demand from the grocery sector for foil.

    • Darragh Scully says:

      01:36pm | 03/05/11

      Bin Laden has been Killed many times. Not only that he has been, by the open minded such as authors published in nexus etc, been working for the Bilderbergs and the Aluminati as a Field Agent for the CIA. Meanwhile in his most recent operation he got Fragged, Inception like in the Matrix of Southpark. This time its Official, Bin Laden is Dead.

      RE-enactment of events that took place.
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLZWUwn_l2U

    • TheRealDave says:

      03:06pm | 03/05/11

      see, its times like this I wish we didn’t have compulsory voting…but I am comforted in the fact that in all likelihood this delusional twit wouldn’t be able to fill the ballot out properly in all likelihood….

      either that or this was a cleverly posted ‘comment’ to highlight the aims of the compulsory sterilisation brigade….

    • Alexander says:

      10:57am | 04/05/11

      Realdave - does the CIA give you your orders directly or is it all handled by ASIO? How many ASIO ops are there now on Punch? Three at last count - but I’d bet there’s more now. Is it fun working in COINTELPRO?

    • The Vivid Writer says:

      11:46am | 03/05/11

      “Al Qaeda is now a set of like-minded groups in different parts of the world. “
      —Are you saying that groups that aren’t Al-Qaeda are branded as such for the sake of blame-games?

    • Gretchen says:

      11:48am | 03/05/11

      It was only a matter of time before the criminal terrorists in the United States government decided that it was time to claim that they had finally killed Osama Bin Laden. His reported death is nothing more than a staged psychological warfare operation designed to aid Barack Obama’s credibility as President and to make the claim that progress in this fake terror war is being made.

      In reality, Bin Laden required the use of a kidney dialysis machine right around the time of the September 11th attacks and there were even reports of his death around the same time frame. All of the major Bin Laden videos that were either found or released after the September 11th attacks were criticized as fakes.

    • Osama Lives-Hanger 54 says:

      04:06pm | 03/05/11

      I was going to say the same thing….lol

    • Macon Paine says:

      10:50am | 04/05/11

      “It was only a matter of time before the criminal terrorists in the United States government decided that it was time to claim that they had finally killed Osama Bin Laden.”

      Name the “criminal terrorists” and link us to the evidence you have to back up these claims please. If you want a new investigation your going to have to do this.

      “His reported death is nothing more than a staged psychological warfare operation designed to aid Barack Obama’s credibility as President and to make the claim that progress in this fake terror war is being made.”

      You make no sense. If Osama was killed years ago, why didn’t President Bush use this information to aid his credibility in the 2006 mid term elections? Also progress in the war on terror has been made, Iraq now has free democratic elections (and are no longer slaves to a tyrant) and pro democracy movements are toppling dictators in Egypt, Libya etc. How is that not progress?

      “In reality, Bin Laden required the use of a kidney dialysis machine right around the time of the September 11th attacks and there were even reports of his death around the same time frame.”

      Assuming he did need Dialysis, it is not an immediate death sentence provided he can get treatment about 3 times a week. It’s likely certain people in the pakistani military where helping him with this considering he was found in a compound. Why is it that you believe those unfounded reports about Osama but not legitimate reports such as this one?

      “All of the major Bin Laden videos that were either found or released after the September 11th attacks were criticized as fakes.”

      Ok…Criticised by who? A few buffoons on obscure web forums? It’s pretty simple stuff, no fake videos, see here: http://www.911myths.com/html/fake_video.html

    • John says:

      11:02pm | 03/05/11

      You also forgot that he denied being involved in the 9/11 attacks. Explosives theory is correct, the al-qaeda official story was merely fiction. You must realize the people that were on the top of the towers never would of though the buildings would collapse. But many mysteriously feel off the buildings. If the place was filled with smoke, you would head to the air which was the broken windows and the broken parts. Then all of sudden they were pushed out, i don’t think they slipped, an explosion went off and pressure blew them out.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ed7c-mpk5E0

    • Spook says:

      11:16am | 05/05/11

      But the weight of opinion now swinging behind the possibility that Bin Laden is dead - and the accumulating evidence that supports it - makes the notion, at the very least, worthy of examination.
      The theory first received an airing in the American Spectator magazine earlier this year when former U.S. foreign intelligence officer and senior editor Angelo M. Codevilla, a professor of international relations at Boston University, stated bluntly: ‘All the evidence suggests Elvis Presley is more alive today than Osama Bin Laden.’

      Prof Codevilla pointed to inconsistencies in the videos and claimed there have been no reputable sightings of Bin Laden for years (for instance, all interceptions by the West of communications made by the Al Qaeda leader suddenly ceased in late 2001).
      Prof Codevilla asserted: ‘The video and audio tapes alleged to be Osama’s never convince the impartial observer,’ he asserted. ‘The guy just does not look like Osama. Some videos show him with a Semitic, aquiline nose, while others show him with a shorter, broader one. Next to that, differences between the colours and styles of his beard are small stuff.’
      There are other doubters, too. Professor Bruce Lawrence, head of Duke University’s religious studies’ department and the foremost Bin Laden expert, argues that the increasingly secular language in the video and audio tapes of Osama (his earliest ones are littered with references to God and the Prophet Mohammed) are inconsistent with his strict Islamic religion, Wahhabism.

      He notes that, on one video, Bin Laden wears golden rings on his fingers, an adornment banned among Wahhabi followers.


      This week, still more questions have been raised with the publication in America and Britain of a book called Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive?
      Written by political analyst and philosopher Professor David Ray Griffin, former emeritus professor at California’s Claremont School of Theology, it is provoking shock waves - for it goes into far more detail about his supposed death and suggests there has been a cover-up by the West.
      The book claims that Bin Laden died of kidney failure, or a linked complaint, on December 13, 2001, while living in Afghanistan’s Tora Bora mountains close to the border with Waziristan.
      His burial took place within 24 hours, in line with Muslim religious rules, and in an unmarked grave, which is a Wahhabi custom.
      The author insists that the many Bin Laden tapes made since that date have been concocted by the West to make the world believe Bin Laden is alive. The purpose? To stoke up waning support for the war on terror in Iraq and Afghanistan.
      To understand Griffin’s thesis, we must remember the West’s reaction to 9/11, that fateful sunny September day in 2001. Within a month, on Sunday, October 7, the U.S. and Britain launched massive retaliatory air strikes in the Tora Bora region where they said ‘prime suspect’ Bin Laden was living ‘as a guest of Afghanistan’.
      This military offensive ignored the fact that Bin Laden had already insisted four times in official Al Qaeda statements made to the Arab press that he played no role in 9/11.
      Indeed, on the fourth occasion, on September 28 and a fortnight after the atrocity, he declared emphatically: ‘I have already said I am not involved. As a Muslim, I try my best to avoid telling a lie. I had no knowledge… nor do I consider the killing of innocent women, children and other humans as an appreciable act.’
      Within hours of the October 7 strikes by the U.S. on Tora Bora, Bin Laden made his first ever appearance on video tape. Dressed in Army fatigues, and with an Islamic head-dress, he had an assault rifle propped behind him in a broadly lit mountain hideout. Significantly, he looked pale and gaunt.
      Although he called President George W. Bush ‘head of the infidels’ and poured scorn on the U.S., he once again rejected responsibility for 9/11.
      ‘America was hit by God in one of its softest spots. America is full of fear, from its north to its south, from its west to its east. Thank God for that.’
      Then came a second videotape on November 3, 2001. Once again, an ailing Bin Laden lashed out at the United States. He urged true Muslims to celebrate the attacks - but did not at any time acknowledge he had been involved in the atrocity.
      And then there was silence until December 13, 2001 - the date Griffin claims Bin Laden died. That very day, the U.S. Government released a new video of the terror chief. In this tape, Bin Laden contradicted all his previous denials, and suddenly admitted to his involvement in the atrocity of 9/11.
      The tape had reportedly been found by U.S. troops in a private home in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, after anti-Taliban forces took over the city. A label attached to it claimed that it had been made on November 9, 2001.


      Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1212851/Has-Osama-Bin-Laden-dead-seven-years—U-S-Britain-covering-continue-war-terror.html#ixzz1LR7OCn6m

 

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