This is the third in a series of essays adapted from the Centre for Policy Development book, More Than Luck: Ideas Australia needs now. The Labor Government has set itself up for failure by upholding the view that asylum seeking is a national security threat, writes Kate Gauthier.

It is said that any civilised society can be measured by how it treats its most vulnerable people. Asylum seekers, vilified by the media and feared by the public, make an excellent target for unscrupulous public figures who seek to gain power or position through a culture of fear.

Illustration by Sturt Krygsman

In order to appear tough on asylum seekers – tough on the victims of human rights abuses – successive governments and political parties have enacted or proposed policies that severely curtail the rights of people fleeing war, persecution and torture.

The argument in favour of taking a punitive approach is that it discourages onshore asylum seeking. This is shown to be false by two issues.

The first is that the majority of asylum seekers arrive by plane, not boat, yet policies to discourage asylum seeking are focused on boat arrivals, not plane arrivals. If onshore asylum seeking itself was such a problem, the first cohort to tackle would be the plane arrivals.

The second reason it is a false argument, is that even a cursory glance at the statistics, both domestic and global, will show that deterrent policies have at best only a marginal impact on boat arrival numbers.

After the introduction of mandatory detention, boat arrivals increased. After the introduction of Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) boat arrivals actually increased.

It is not that these policies necessarily increased asylum seeking themselves (although a good argument can be mounted regarding TPVs). Rather, Australian asylum trends closely follow those of other rich nations, experiencing largely the same ebbs and flows. Australian and global asylum numbers increased in the time period after those policies were put in place.

Then they both decreased in tandem. We are now once again seeing an increase in Australia, an increase that is happening globally as well.

Unfortunately, asylum seeker policy has become a highly politicised issue, where good policy gives way to good politics. The issue of children in immigration detention centres is a good example.

The Government recently announced it would release several hundred children from immigration detention centres. This was mostly met with approval from commentators and policy advocates. But few realised that it was the current ALP Government who had put those children back into detention in the first place.

The recent election, in which the Opposition campaigned stridently on asylum seeker policy, only added to the Government’s fear of appearing “soft” on border security.

In the November 2010 announcement about children in detention, Prime Minister Julia Gillard stated that the Government “intends to progressively move several hundred children and families into community-based accommodation - with the assistance of community organisations - by June 2011.”

This alone shows the political sensitivities of the issue. Why should it take eight months to process only a few hundred cases? There are nearly a thousand children in immigration detention, so why release some and not all? At a recent briefing, the Department of Immigration and Citizenship was unable to explain whether this was a capacity issue and others would be released later, or whether the Government intends to keep older children in detention as a matter of policy.

Ironically, a more measured policy has already been tried – by the Howard Government, lauded by some for its hardline approach. In 2005, it introduced the Community Care Pilot (CCP) program. This was a program that provided intensive casework, psycho-social support and where necessary housing and income support to vulnerable people in the immigration regime. Participants in this program came from both the community and from detention centres.

The results were startling: CCP worked. The evidence from the pilot found that immigration cases were resolved faster, more cheaply, and resulted in people with fewer ongoing support needs. Those rejected for visas were more likely to return home voluntarily, rather than appeal the rejection or require forced deportation.

Given the enormous success of the CCP, it is a shame that the Coalition in opposition does not loudly stake a claim to it. Of course, it would be hard to reconcile the implications of the rights and welfare based approach of the CCP with the Coalition’s current policies of restricting the rights of those seeking refuge in Australian by boat, in order to deter future asylum seekers.

But as the debate remains politicised, sensible policy solutions continue to be sidelined. As part of the process to change how Australia approaches this issue, we need to recognize that asylum seeking is not an immigration issue. It is a human rights and international law issue. Asylum seekers are not seeking to migrate to Australia, they are seeking to leave a place of danger and find safety.

John Howard once famously said: “We decide who comes here and the circumstances in which they come.” And he was right.

By signing the Refugee Convention, which allows for refugees to enter Australia without a visa in order to seek asylum, Australia said yes to refugees. We said yes to asylum seekers. Let’s also say yes to some sensible policy options that stops wasting our taxpayer dollars on harming vulnerable people.

Kate Gauthier is a contributing author to the Centre for Policy Development’s recent publication More Than Luck: Ideas Australia needs now. Kate is the Chair of the recently reformed ChilOut (Children Out of Detention).

88 comments

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    • Eric says:

      04:54am | 12/01/11

      As I observed on Monday, most of the “Big Ideas” proposed by this left-wing think tank are simply rehashes of failed policies from bygone years. This one is no different.

      How about a real Big Idea? Renounce the anachronistic 1948 Refugee Convention. Its outdated provisions are being exploited by opportunistic illegal immigrants, aided by legal sharks and sympathetic tribunal members. Let’s be the first nation to discard this obsolete treaty.

      Real Big Idea number two: We have the right to control our own borders, to determine who comes here and the manner in which they arrive. The open borders crowd is paving the way for disaster, if we look at the experiences of Europe and the US in the past few decades. Let us not go down that road.

    • Super D says:

      08:16am | 12/01/11

      Eric that is too big of an idea.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      09:38am | 12/01/11

      Eric
       
      Could not agree more. Most people would be surprised to see the small number of countries that are signatories. It is outdated - in the immediate aftermath of WWII, people who had no homes (and in some cases no countries) were grateful to be resettled anywhere. They didn’t bitch about being asked to provide ID, they didn’t get their choice of country, they didn’t get handed everything on a platter when they arrived. And they most certainly did NOT bleed the host taxpayers dry by employing a bunch of pond-scum lawyers to go to court on their behalf if things were not quite to their liking. 
       
      I think all the supporters of these welfare-shopping illegal immigrants need to sit down and spend an evening reviewing what has happened in places like Birmingham, Paris and Amsterdam. Then ask themselves whether they want Melbourne, Adelaide or Brisbane to be like that. There are whole GROUPS of suburbs where those who were actually born, now fear to tread.

    • marley says:

      10:31am | 12/01/11

      @Tony of Pooristan - 144 countries are signatories to the Convention and Protocol.  That seems like a pretty big number to me.

    • LJ says:

      10:47am | 12/01/11

      Eric, this is one of the most sensible things I have ever read on what has become an issue bogged down by guilt and impracticality.
      It’s one thing for someone to migrate to another country but at least sign the guest book when you come in. We have become weak and gullible letting emotion dictate policy.
      It makes me sick to see our boys fighting over there while they come over in the boat load. Along with the fact that we continue to give aid to countries that wouldn’t know the meaning of the word reciprocate. Where’s Indonesia or Sri Lanka’s contribution to the flood relief?

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      11:23am | 12/01/11

      Marley

      If it is such a shit-hot document, I think less than two thirds of nations as signatories is ‘small’. 
       
      Additionally, I should have mentioned the activity level of signatories: 
       
      Japan in 1999 received 260 asylum applications, of which it approved 13. South Korea acceded to the Convention in 1992. Since then it has received a total of 50 asylum applications, of which it has approved none. On the other hand, over the last decade, Australia’s average intake under its humanitarian migration program has averaged about 12 000; the highest per capita off-shore intake of refugees in the world. (from http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/rp/2000-01/01rp05.htm). 
       
      We are being shafted by a planned and co-ordinated strategy. Those in this country now get permanent residency, unlike the previous temporary protection visas. This enables them to bring their uncles, sisters, cousins, grandfather, brother, grandmother, aunties and several wives each into the country.  Gillard might think it would take 20 years to fill the MCG with boat people, but it would take only 3 months to fill it with the relatives they bring in. 
       
      We need to get out of the 1951 UN Convention on Refugees ASAP

    • daisy mae says:

      12:05pm | 12/01/11

      @Tony - well, it’s 75% of nations who are signatory.  I doubt you’ll find three quarters of the world agreeing on much else so I think that’s a pretty good number.

      As for our humanitarian intake - sure, it’s comparatively generous.  But when you look at the numbers of refugees selected both onshore and offshore, we are nowhere near the top of the table.  Canada has a population 1/3 larger than ours, but takes something like 40 to 60,000 refugees a year from both on and offshore sources.  Makes our 13,750 seem pretty insignificant.

    • franklin says:

      01:55pm | 12/01/11

      The following world map shows the countries that are UN member states and signatories to the 1951 Convention relating to the Status of Refugees and/or its 1967 Protocol.

      http://www.unhcr.org/4848f6072.html

      When Afghanistan is located on the map it can be seen that there are four member UN states which are signatories to the Refugee Convention that actually border Afghanistan, and there are four more countries that are only one country away. The asylum seekers are of course permitted by the convention to cross the borders to enter these nearby countries.

      The UNHCR’s prefered solution is that refugees are resettled in their home countries when safe to do so (in fact tens of thousands of Afghans have already returned to Afghanistan). If this is not possible the UNHCR then prefers that refugees are resettled in a neighbouring country of similar culture. The very last resort proscribed by the UNHCR is for resettlement of refugees in a far away third country. Additionally the refugee convention does not oblige countries of refuge to offer permanent residency nor does it oblige countries of refuge to offer family reunion.

      The relevant question is why do Afghani asylum seekers “fleeing persecution” pay many thousands of dollars to people smugglers to reach far away Australia when there are at least eight countries nearby of very similar religion and culture which are signatories to the UN Refugee Convention where they can seek UNHCR refuge.

    • Eric says:

      04:29pm | 12/01/11

      Well said indeed, Franklin.

      Those facts would be made widely known by any unbiased media organisation interested in reporting the truth.

    • dead to me says:

      05:59am | 12/01/11

      There won’t be a solution to the asylum seeker issue as long as Gillard is PM. She can’t, won’t and is scared to make a decisive decision (the Greens/Independents must have their 2 cents on the matter 1st). And as her plate piles up with many problems as it already has, she will get through it all by coming up with unrealistic solutions (remember the cash for trash car policy?), distracting us with other problems (did she come to some conclusion on gay marriage, the environment, health?) or just plain ignoring it. We voted for a dud and we sure as hell got one.

    • acotrel says:

      09:37am | 12/01/11

      Like many people, Julia Gillard is typically reactionary.  She should never listen to Tony Abbott, he’s an idiot and responding to his games is stupid.

    • Ben C says:

      10:08am | 12/01/11

      @ acotrel

      So, by your reasoning, Gillard is an even bigger idiot for responding to his games?

      At least in his idiocy, Abbott is providing ideas - be they good or not. Gillard’s just reacting to them.

    • Dash says:

      10:46am | 12/01/11

      acotrel, when do you think you and the government will start taking responsibility for the ALPs actions rather than blame everything on Rudd or the LNP?

      The following had nothing to do with Abbott:

      Grocery choice promise not delivered
      fuelwatch promise not delivered
      260+ childcare centres promised not delivered
      Cheaper better childcare promise not delivered
      Public ownership of hospitals by July 2009 not delivered
      More affordable housing promise not delivered
      The insulation fiasco
      Gillard’s promise of no carbon tax
      Gillard’s promise of no onshore detention facilities
      Gillard’s committment to building the Parrammatta to Epping railway
      The failure to deliver root and branch tax reform
      The failure of the green loans scheme
      The coast guard promise not delivered
      The announcement of the East Timor solution which never existed
      The rorting of tax payers money under the school halls program
      The lie about not touching the private health tax rebate
      The lie about Gillard’s membership of the Socialist Forum
      The lie about supporting PM Rudd
      The waste of taxpayers money on the second stimulus
      The lie about reducing consultancy costs
      The lie about the profits tax being not negotiable
      The lie about delivering on all of the ALPs promises.

      Maybe the problem is she’s not listening hard enough? Lets see how reactionary she is to the ALPs performance at the last election, it’s defeat in Vic and the result in NSW. Stop making hollow promises and start delivering on the ones you made in ‘07. That may be a good start.

    • Against the Man says:

      11:58am | 12/01/11

      @ Dash, man if you expect the ALP/Gillard to keep any promises let alone the ones from ‘07, then you will be waiting an eternity. This government from the Rudd to Gillard leadership has been pathetic at best. Now with all this issues up in the air watch as Gillard and Bligh screw things up for Queenslanders at the Federal to State level. The disaster is the ALP leadership!

    • Dot says:

      12:08pm | 12/01/11

      Dash
      Can you stop cutting and pasting your stupid list.
      It’s just your opinion and it’s very boring.

    • Dash says:

      12:43pm | 12/01/11

      Dot, you are wrong. My post is fact not opinion! I can’t see where you can argue with anything on the list? And no, I wont stop highlighting the lies, waste and deceit until I see the back of these morons.

      Sorry you find the truth boring. Perhaps that’s why Gillard and the ALP are able to lie so much and get away with it. People like you find lies more exciting and the gullible people believe them.

    • George says:

      12:45pm | 12/01/11

      @Dot

      Its a ‘stupid list’ to you because its a constant reminder of the failings of your political party the ALP and Gillard who you voted for and propped into power. 

      The truth hurts,  however much you to hide facts in your denigrations they remain facts. 

      If you want to rubbish the list that Dash posted present facts that will falsify it, good luck.

    • Super D says:

      06:14am | 12/01/11

      I don’t see a plan in the above article.  Certainly not one that deals with the latest wave of economic migrants that the Labor government has encouraged. 

      No mention either of the deaths at Christmas island.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      11:33am | 12/01/11

      Super D
       
      no mention, either, of the riots among these so-called peaceful refugees at Baxter, Villawood or Darwin. Do we really need this sort of violence here? They cannot even behave whilst being assessed.

    • thatmosis says:

      06:34am | 12/01/11

      What a load of unmitigated clap trap. These people who come by boat or plane and expect Australia to swallow their stories about persecution etc whilst paying up to $20,000 each for a place on a boat. Id like to have $20,000 to spend myself. After they are given their protection visas and all the goodies heaped on them by the Australian tax payer over 65% then go back home to visit. Is it me or what but if you “escaped” persecution in your country why would you go back to visit????? We are being conned by them and all the bleeding hearts who want some cause to persue that doesnt really mean they have to do anything except look concerned. it a latte kind of thing and trendy to be on the side of the poor downtrodden illigal refugees whilst keeping ones hands nice and clean. If these bleeding hearts are so worried about these people let them take some of them into their own hmes and look after them at their own expense instead of lumbering the Australian tax payer with the expense of this fraud.

    • Charles says:

      07:05am | 12/01/11

      Is there no end to the line-up of light-on-facts, heavy-on-propaganda articles that are being published in support of illegal immigrants at the moment?

      Every concerned government, as well as the UNHCR realise boat arrivals are more likely to be illegal immigrants than anything else, yet it doesn’t stop people like this author continually mis-representing the issue.

      At least those who arrive by plane have some documentation with which they can test their claims.  However for those boat riding illegal immigrants, many of whom flew to Indonesia and Malaysia prior to their boat ride, did not manage to find their passports because they left home in such a hurry, although they did manage to remember to bring the $20-30,000 needed to secure their trip.  Such fraud is not easily disguised.

      No, we do not fear them, apart from their assualt on our welfare services, what we do not like almost universally is the fact they are cheating the system.  We know it, they know it, and when you and your ilk finally realise it, then we will be able to adddress the issue in a reasonable manner.

    • acotrel says:

      09:48am | 12/01/11

      Charles, are you saying that immigrants who come by plane don’t ‘assault our welfare services’ ?>

    • Allan says:

      07:24am | 12/01/11

      People who arrive by plane must present a valid visa before they get out of the terminal. If they overstay their visa or do not comply with the conditions set out in their visa’s they are in breach.
      It then becomes a easy matter to deport them to their country of origin.
      The queue jumpers who arrive by boat are just that, queue jumping.
      Australia accepts around 13,500 per year and has done so for decades.
      If we decide to increase that figure to 30, 50 or 100 thousand people per year that is fair enough but not queue jumpers.

    • Kate says:

      10:19pm | 12/01/11

      No they don’t. You can apply for refugee status as soon as you get off the plane - without a valid visa, with a student visa you obtained through deception, with a tourist visa, with a fake visa, etc. And you can’t deport them until you have assessed their claim.

    • Gregg says:

      10:52pm | 12/01/11

      @Kate,
      How many fake visas do you reckon allow people to get onto aircraft?
      When visas are issued by Immigration they are entered into the Immigration computer system against a passport number which had to be used to get the visa in the first place and so an airline check in desk with connection to the Australian Immigration computer system needs to scan a passport that will show the visa in order to give a boarding pass.
      I think you will find it very difficult to convinve any airline to carry a passenger without a visa and do your homework on how a fake visa can exist for through electronic recording, unless you have the ability to hack into the Immigration computer system they’ll just not exist.

    • MarK says:

      11:56pm | 12/01/11

      Care to tell me how many that arrived irregularly by plane are currently in detention?

      This myth of plane arrivals being a bigger strain on the system than irregular boat arrivals is a lie

    • Official Statement says:

      08:40am | 13/01/11

      @MarK
      None, they all have permanent resident visas now.

    • Macca says:

      07:29am | 12/01/11

      “After the introduction of mandatory detention, boat arrivals increased. After the introduction of Temporary Protection Visas (TPVs) boat arrivals actually increased.

      It is not that these policies necessarily increased asylum seeking themselves (although a good argument can be mounted regarding TPVs). Rather, Australian asylum trends closely follow those of other rich nations, experiencing largely the same ebbs and flows.”

      I’d love to see some statistics on this, because I doubt this.

      “This alone shows the political sensitivities of the issue. Why should it take eight months to process only a few hundred cases? ”
      Well, yes, actually. Many asylum seekers do not have any paper work on them so doing background and health checks is often a very long and arduous process. The fact you question this shows an ignorance for the refugee process.

    • Super D says:

      08:23am | 12/01/11

      While it is true that boat arrivals kept coming after TPV’s were introduced that just means that they didn’t have as significant deterrant effect that the Government of the day hoped for.

      In isolation the policy was ineffective, no doubt about that.  It’s a little disengenuous to say “Ha-Ha TPV’s don’t work” and then ignore the overwhelming evidence that offshore processing on Nauru in combination with TPV’s was incredible successful in reducing boat arrivals. 

      It’s worth noting that once TPV’s and offshore processing on nauru were stopped by the Rudd Government boat arrivals increased dramatically.  So what you’re argument boils down to is that if you want to significantly reduce boat arrivals then TPV’s are ineffective but Nauru processing is a must have.

    • Ryan says:

      09:00am | 12/01/11

      @Super D: “While it is true that boat arrivals kept coming after TPV’s were introduced that just means that they didn’t have as significant deterrant effect that the Government of the day hoped for.” you mean not immediately until the economic migrants figured out that paying 20grand didn’t actually get you an Australian passport? Once word got around it sure dried up to just about nothing.

    • Freeman says:

      09:58am | 12/01/11

      Macca,

      you can see for yourself on the page below.
      http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/sp/boatarrivals.htm

      I don’t know what twisted logic the author possess’s but boat arrivals dropped drastically after the indtroduction of the pacific solution and rose drastically when labor removed it in 2008. the facts can be found right there but the author still try’s to dismiss it as a myth. the evidence suggests that these people board boats, destroy their ID and pay smugglers in order to gain financial benefit and generous welfare upon being granted refugee status. still, the author would dismiss all that as a myth.

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      10:37am | 12/01/11

      Don’t believe the garbage coming out of the refugee coalition or GeUp! - Keep Aussies Down.

      http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/sp/boatarrivals.htm

      Pacific Solution was 2001. Boat arrivals dropped off the radar as per appendix A. 

      2000 -51 Boats
      2001 - 43 Boats
      2002 - 1 Boat
      2003 - 1 Boat

      Where does the left get their figures from?
       
      Katie needs to get her facts right and stop reading the garbage spewed by getup and the refugee coalition.

    • KH says:

      07:33am | 12/01/11

      When someone arrives here by plane, presumably they have a passport, and in many cases, a visa, and they have to show they have enough money for their ‘holiday’, and can be pulled up by customs if they appear to be suspicious in any way.  So if it is that easy to get here by plane, why spend all the money you have in the world on a leaky boat?  I guess this is why people are suspicious of ‘boat people’ - why all the sneaking around?  Why destroy all your documents?  What are they hiding that it wouldn’t pass a visa application?  Maybe it is easier to be an ‘asylum seeker’ than a ‘visa overstayer’ - there are probably more benefits too.  At least people who come by plane can prove who they are, and apparently passed the criteria for entry to Australia.  Maybe that makes them seem a lot less threatening.

    • marley says:

      10:34am | 12/01/11

      Australia has pretty much a universal visa requirement, even if the visa isn’t always in your passport.  So you have to have a visa to get on a plane.  No visa, no boarding.  Simple as that.  So if you can’t qualify for a visa (you don’t have a passport; you don’t have the money to support yourself; you’re likely to violate the terms of the visa) you will have to try other means to get here.

    • Look after our own says:

      07:41am | 12/01/11

      Australia doesn’t need any more of this nonsense.  We’ve got enough people, enough disasters and enough blithering silly ideas from Green extremists.  Yes, it’s a big, big con and the more columns churned out like this the more the turn-off.

      We are seeing our own people’s lives swept away before our very eyes, and now we’re reading bleeding heart rubbish typically carping on people “fleeing” third country safety while targeting Australia’s economic generosity.
      Well—- sorry—- there’s change in the wind that hopefully lead to the majority of us insisting in politicians prioritising our own people, cutting the foreign aid and ditching the United Nations.

    • Look after our own's brother says:

      08:37am | 12/01/11

      I am’ Look after our own’s’ brother.  Aussies being swept away in floods, their homes disintegrating before their eyes are the real people who built this country, and the children of same.  They are obviously not those who are prioritised into taxpayer-funded accommodation that for damn sure is going to be needed by our own disaster-struck people.
      Show some respect for our own, please.
      We vote, and we’ve had enough.

    • Look after our own's cousin says:

      12:38pm | 12/01/11

      “It is said that any civilised society can be measured by how it treats its most vulnerable people”.

      Since when did asylum seekers and illegal immigrants become our people?

      Asylum seekers and illegal migrants are not ‘our people’ yet.  What is sad is that to placate the bleeding hearts for this group of people the Joolya and her clowns in government does a lot to compromise the safety and well being of Australians like donate $500M to Indonesian schools instead of donating that to Australian schools.

    • max White says:

      07:51am | 12/01/11

      Labor has failed the people of Australia, with its open border policy. For once John Howard was right with his statement” we will decide who comes to this country.” Let’s remove our signature from the refugee convention and send the queue jumpers home. We did it to the PNG nationals who came by boat why not the others.? Are we that scared we may offend the Muslim nations of the world.? If Islam is so good why are they fleeing to a Christian country?

    • KH says:

      12:04pm | 12/01/11

      Whoa there max - Australia is a secular country - the majority of people might believe in the christian version of the fairy stories, but that still doesn’t make the country ‘christian’.

    • grumpy old man says:

      07:59am | 12/01/11

      There is a significant difference between people who come by plane, and those who come by boat.
      Those who come by plane have identity documentation and a visa of some sort. They are identifiable. Those who come by boat have no identification and no visa, and are entering the country illegally. Those who come by boat have generally paid more for their boat trip than an airline ticket, and are deliberately endevouring to enter the country with no legal right. It is this difference that causes a difference in focus by immigration authorities et al.

      I have no issue with the fact that people want to come and live in Australia, less than 20 years ago, I was one of them. The difference is that I came in through the front door, paid my own way, and expected nothing except that which I earned myself. I have never received, and do not ever expect to receive any hand out from anyone.

      If people wish to come here, then I think we can accommodate them, subject to some simple rules, which I think we have a right to impose. Firstly, they must be capable of obtaining paid employment. So a skill and some ability to speak and understand English. Secondly, they must agree, in writing, to abide by Australian law and custom. If they don’t want to do this, then why are they coming here in the first place? If they sign up, and then break the rules in a material way, Australia has the right to revoke their right to live here, and send them back where they came from. Thirdly, they must arrive with identification..no ID, don’t come here. This is not a unreasonable expectation, and it means that we then don’t need to effectively imprison people while we determine who they are . Fourthly, we get rid of the stupid policy of allowing multiple citizenships. If you want to be Australian, be Australian, but give up all your other passports.Finally, we recognize that there is a difference between illegal immigrants, refugees, and asylum seekers. We should not accept illegal immigrants at all, only accept refugees from the many camps around the world, and only accept asylum seekers from those countries who have a border ( albeit a sea border) with Australia.

      I’m sure that many will criticizes this approach as somewhat less than compassionate, but we need a set of rules that sends the right signals and puts an end to the arrival of the boats, and therefore the many recorded ( and most likely more unrecorded) tragedies.

    • Ben C says:

      10:42am | 12/01/11

      Overall, I agree with your sentiments, but I take issue with your stance on multiple citizenships - if an Australian were to move overseas and take up citizenship there, should they then renounce their Australian citizenship?

      I don’t have a problem with multiple citizenships - my parents have dual citizenships here and in Hong Kong - as long as you abide by the laws of the land that you are in, and you are contributing to society.

    • Markus says:

      12:12pm | 12/01/11

      I thought dual citizenship was only really granted to children of parents who have different citizenship. So to gain Australian citizenship if you have never had it previously, you do have to revoke your existing citizenship. Is that not how it works?

      @Ben C, yes. If an Australian wishes to be a permanent resident in another country fine. But if they wish to become a citizen of another country then yes, they should revoke their existing Aus citizenship.

    • grumpy old man says:

      01:02pm | 12/01/11

      Ben C
      I must admit to being a bit ambiguous on this one. I guess my concern is that some people have milked the multiple citizenship angle to take things from Australia, without putting anything back. I’m thinking particularly about people receiving Govt handouts and benefits but electing to live elsewhere, with little if any interest in returning to Australia.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      01:21pm | 12/01/11

      Grumpy old man
       
      dead right. well over 15,000 plasma bonuses went to people living in Lebanon.

    • grumpy old man says:

      02:11pm | 12/01/11

      Markus,
      when I got my Australian citizenship, about 6 or 7 years ago, I was not required to give up any previous citizenship. I could therefore have kept my previous citizenship. FYI, one of my children ( who do not always subscribe to the same thoughts as their old man!) has 3 passports, one from his mothers country of origin, one from mine, and an Australian one. Personally, I think its dumb, but he travels overseas alot and says it makes things easier. Not in my mind a good enough reason. I guess the point is you don’t have to revoke other citizenships when you become an Aussie.

    • marley says:

      02:30pm | 12/01/11

      @Markus - no, there’s no requirement at all to renounce your former citizenship when you become an Australian citizen.  I’m a Canadian citizen by birth, and became an Australian citizen last year.  I’ve got two passports,  and I’m entitled to both of them. 

      By the way, many western countries recognize dual nationality these days - it’s certainly not something unique to Australia.

    • Markus says:

      02:55pm | 12/01/11

      Yep you’re right grumpy that seems to be the case in Australia (did some reading up on it over lunch).
      I got a bit confused as the one i know the most about is Japan, which is a lot stricter. You do have to give up any other citizenship to be granted Japanese one.
      Also if a child is born with dual citizenship, they must give up all other citizenships upon hitting adult age, or else lose their Japanese one.

      Honestly I think a system like that makes more sense. There does not seem to be any benefit to Australia allowing dual citizenship besides people exploiting it for their own convenience. Tony’s example, if accurate, is case in point.

      If one wishes to reap the benefits of being a citizen in the country they live in, they should not be able to hold onto similar benefits for another country.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      03:14pm | 12/01/11

      I think you SHOULD have to renounce your original citizenship (as when taking up US citizenship). This might stop incidents such as the one in Lebanon in 2009, where there was a disaster and thousands of Lebanese-born dual citizens (who were living on Aussie funded benefits in Lebanon) , DEMANDED that the Australian Govt (ie the long-suffering Aussie taxpayer) repatriate them to Australia. 
       
      Personally, I’d have told them that they were Lebanese citizens, in Lebanon and to get the Lebanese Govt to help.

    • marley says:

      03:58pm | 12/01/11

      @Markus - I have to disagree with you on the point about dual nationals. 

      If you have worked all your life in a country, paid taxes, contributed to the economy, and so on, shouldn’t you be entitled to the benefits of that contribution, regardless of where you live?  Take my own case - I had a full working life in Canada, paid taxes, contributed to a Canadian pension scheme and to a Canadian superannuation scheme.  I migrated here a few years ago and became a citizen last year.  I enjoy the benefits of both the pensions I contributed to in Canada.  And why not? I paid for them all my working life.  (And i still pay Canadian tax on them, by the way, which I would do, with or without citizenship).

      I don’t see anything morally wrong with getting a pension from a country which you don’t live in, providing of course you earned that pension.  And by the way, I don’t get any benefits here in Australia, beyond medicare.  I never will.

      If the issue is that people who have NOT contributed to Australia are nonetheless able to collect benefits after they leave, I think that’s a pension and tax issue rather than a citizenship one.  And if plasma TV benefits go abroad, well, that’s definitely a tax, not a citizenship, issue.

    • Roger Crook says:

      08:03am | 12/01/11

      Who or what is the Centre for Policy Development? Whoever or whatever they are, if the artcle by Kate Gauthier is an example of their capacity to live up to their lofty description of themselves, they have, obviously, failed.

    • Against the Man says:

      08:08am | 12/01/11

      I’ll bet the Gillard government gets nowhere with the asylum seeker issue. Too hard and it is easier to just not think about it. We need a new government, any other government. It can’t get any worse than the current crop of bozos.

    • AdamC says:

      08:24am | 12/01/11

      This article is particularly disappointing.

      Some of the statements the author relies upon, such as TPVs causing boat arrivals to increase, are simply false. Furthermore, the objectives of the approach are unclear. Unless a policy is actually going to reduce the number of boar arrivals, I don’t think many people are going to be that interested.

    • Jon says:

      08:47am | 12/01/11

      The 1951 Refugee Convention is a product of the Cold War environment, and it reflects both European experience of Nazi war-time persecutions and Western political interests as these were perceived at the time. Immediate post-war European displacements had been dealt with on an ad hoc and group basis. Exit restrictions in communist countries meant numbers were low.

      One of the most glaring problems is that not all countries are signatories to the convention. This makes it flawed and shows the limitations of the UN. It was agree to in different time and context. It is no longer suitable, a new agreement is needed one that all the UN members will sign. If that is not possible we need to get out of the UN ASAP.

    • AnthonyG says:

      09:01am | 12/01/11

      Simple. just put all the queue jumpers to the back of the queue. They can wait there turn at Christmas island or Nauru.

    • Elliot Ness says:

      09:11am | 12/01/11

      Amazing - incredibly sad but amazing all the same.
      Looking at the long list of commentators on this piece today just shows how pointless any attempt to discuss an issue that is of importance to Australia is in this space.
      Right-wing barrackers the lot of you - you drag everything down to personal politics. Whatever the government did about anything at all “the mob” that appears to have taken over “the Punch” comments column will decry it as a pinko Labor plot that will surely bring us all down.
      Congratulations - your vision and capacity is truly breathtaking.

    • Syl says:

      04:43pm | 12/01/11

      Pointless because they dont agree with you?

      It could, of course, be indicitive of popular opinion, since BOTH parties took a hard stance on Illegal Immigration at the last election.

      I agree with many (not all) of the opinions stated above and I am hardly a “right-wing barracker”.  I find both parties, in their current states, embarrasing.  I have voted both Labor and Liberal in my life, and neither.

      Please do not make gross generalisations and insult people because their opinion differs to yours.  You make an informed opinion by listening to BOTH sides of the story, not just the rose tinted one that makes everyone warm and fuzzy inside or the hard line approach.

      Illegal immigration is not a black and white topic, there is no “right or wrong” answer.  We have to find the best answer that suits us as Australians and those in need.  By dismissing a huge chunk of opinion on the topic as a limit in vision or capacity, whilst not actually offering any ideas certainly doesnt make your opinion more valid, if anything it lessens it.  It certainly doesnt add anything to the debate.

    • Gregg says:

      11:07pm | 12/01/11

      @Ness,
      Why do you not discuss some of the facts put forward, facts that the author has not presented nor is prepeared to discuss rationally herself.
      There have been many articles in recent months on asylum seekers and this one is down in the gutter as far as quality goes.

      That look in Kates photograph reminds me of someone who has suffered some severe anguish and is showing hurt and even resentment, perhaps for the views some Australians may hold on the astlum seeking/refugee situation.

      That is not surprising for as lot of us hurting deeply too and feel great resentment for how the current government policy is seeing the plight of the very needy refugees barely suffering in squalid conditions of camps about the planet trampled on by queue jumpers.
      Kate would seem to be on the bandwagon of those who have no feelings for those being trampled on and none of the Authors that the Punch has presenting articles is prepared to present the plight of those being trampled on.

      Look into the UNHC and Immigration department refugee and asylum seeker facts Elliot and then if you are true to what is happening you may feel horribly sad for what is being perpetrated.

    • acotrel says:

      09:42am | 12/01/11

      The High Court of Australia recently restored asylum seekers’ right to recourse to the courts through a writ of habeas corpus - a basic human right in most democracies, which John Howard had denied them!

    • Look after our own's brother says:

      10:18am | 12/01/11

      And what happens when an Aussie seeks free High Court representation?  For anything other than a charge of capital crime, Aussies would live in hope and die in despair.
      I’ve seen this inequity.  It’s a disgrace.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:06am | 12/01/11

      @ Look after our own’s brother: nice try, captain straw man, but perhaps you missed the difference between “recourse to the courts” and “free representation before the High Court.”

      The first one says, whoopee, you actually get to take your case to a court at all, which every “Aussie” gets and which until the High Court’s decision most asylum seekers did not.

      The second one is whether you get legal aid representation to mount a High Court challenge when at least two previous courts have turned you down.  And most legal aid funding gets swallowed up in the criminal system and, by a close second, the Family Court system.  You’re also lying, since there’s Dietrich v R funding which applies directly to this type of scenario.  If the High Court determines the case is a Dietrich one, Legal Aid always grants aid.  Every time.

      Not to mention that to get to the High Court you have to demonstrate special leave first.  90% of the time, it isn’t granted—only for matters where it’s of very significant national importance or where the legal issue is so important it has to be resolved.  Idiots appealing the Dividing Fences Act or alleging constitutional breaches because the local council imposes rates, which form most “self represented” High Court challenges, don’t get through, and the vast majority of asylum seeker claims don’t get through either.

    • Roger Crook says:

      11:33am | 12/01/11

      I was advised that to take a case to the Supreme Court for an estimated 4 day hearing I would have to show that I had $250,000.

      Our evidence was proven. The other side knew we didn’t have the money.

      Guess who won? It cost us our life’s work, a farm.

    • St. Michael says:

      11:40am | 12/01/11

      @ Roger Crook: I doubt your evidence was “proven”, otherwise a lawyer wouldn’t have asked for six figures upfront.  How about some more details, squire?

    • marley says:

      12:12pm | 12/01/11

      @St. Michael - now, I could be wrong on this, but it was my understanding that one of the reasons Howard did all his fancy excising of territory to take away appeal rights, was because the immigration appeals were jamming up the courts and Australians with other kinds of issues couldn’t get access (or not in a reasonable time frame, anyway).  It wasn’t so much a matter of money as of the courts, especially at the lower levels, simply being overwhelmed by migration cases.

      Incidentally, I’m not defending the rationale for restricting appeal rights, just saying I think that was at least part of the reasoning at the time.  And I do know for a fact that migration appeals have become an enormous burden on the courts in other countries.

    • Look after our own's brother says:

      12:52pm | 12/01/11

      St Michael:  yes I am an “Aussie”, and a taxpayer who is fed up with privileges bestowed on outsiders pushing themselves ahead of patient and seemingly less valued Australians. 
      Yes I have seen this inequity.  And yes, your reply is less informed as its language would lead some to believe.
      And no, I am not, as you pompously and incorrectly assert, a liar.

    • St. Michael says:

      01:30pm | 12/01/11

      @ marley: I could be wrong, but as I’d understood it the only chain of courts that could have been “tied up” with immigration cases would have been the Federal Court.  As I understood it the appellate chain for immigration cases was to start your case in the Refugee Review Tribunal (which I don’t think was staffed with judges, only Commissioners or administrators), and if you can point to an error of law, it then goes to Federal Court, Full Bench of Federal Court, and finally the High Court assuming you get special leave to appeal.

      That chain of courts is entirely separate from the state-based ones like (for example) Supreme Court in WA, to Court of Civil Appeals in WA, and then to High Court (again, assuming special leave is granted.)  In short I don’t think there was much overlap, and if any courts are busy and need to be streamlined, its the state-based ones since they deal with the overwhelming majority of civil and criminal cases.

      Federal Court’s jurisdiction only covers courts and tribunals set up by the Federal Government pursuant to their powers at the Constitution.  Family Court is technically a Federal Court but the business of both doesn’t overlap—Family Court judges stay there, they don’t judge refugee matters if I remember right.  Other areas of Federal Court responsibility are a slim trickle of Workplace Law matters, Bankruptcy and Insolvency disputes, some Admirality cases, Trade Practices Act matters and (I think) some intellectual property cases.  Refugee appeals would add to that load, but without knowing it more fully I suspect the rationale of “refugees clog up the court system, m’kay” was at best a misleading argument to make.

      I wouldn’t have considered the High Court ever to be heavily clogged up with cases - they have their own cute little “special leave” provisions they invented which they can and do manipulate to keep 90% of claims out.  Those seven greybeards always whinge about not getting paid enough and having a heavy caseload, to which I say: harden up and stop writing six hundred page judgments, princess.  If not, resign: it’s your right as a judge.

    • marley says:

      02:38pm | 12/01/11

      @St. Michael - yes, I was thinking of the Federal courts, not the High Courts, in my comment.  I know it’s very hard to get any case before the latter.
      I believe the federal courts handle quite a range of civil cases, along with minor criminal appeals, plus appeals from the ACT.  Whether they’re jammed up with cases would depend, really, on their capacity vs the volume of cases of whatever type.  I have simply been told that they were in fact awash with migration cases at the time, and struggling to cope.  That doesn’t mean there aren’t better options than denying people their legal rights, of course.

    • Ev says:

      10:01am | 12/01/11

      It deeply concerns me when I see the majority of comments on this article are bigoted, irrational or hysterical. This is unfortunately all too common when it comes to this issue in Australia as you’ve alluded to above.

      I’d like to do some research on some of the points you’ve put forward Kate. I’d also like to get to know more about the Centre for Policy Development. 

      Political analysis is crucial but I’m sure I’m not alone in saying I would like to see some sensible concrete policy put forward.

      While the government dodges and kicks the issue around, organisations that have sufficient expertise, credibility and support to be listened to should put forward policy recommendations to the gov…is that where you come in?

    • Gregg says:

      11:16pm | 12/01/11

      Plenty of factual posts you’ve overlooked there Ev, and little by way of bigotry, irrationalism or hysteria.
      Start your research with the UNHCR and http://www.immi.gov.au and go to media/facts sheets and look at some of the links provided in some of the posts and you’ll become as well if not more informed than the author appears to be.

    • Geoff - Brisbane says:

      10:09am | 12/01/11

      “It is said that any civilised society can be measured by how it treats its most vulnerable people. Asylum seekers”

      Kate, you failed in your first sentence. Just a reminder kate, they are NOT our people.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      10:20am | 12/01/11

      Refugee policy must be set in context of immigration policy which must be set in context of a population policy. My personal preference is for zero immigration to stabilize Australia’s population around 26-27 million, but realizing this is not possible, I’d settle for a cap of 10,000 a year. The UN convention on refugees needs to scrapped as well as the informal migration arrangement with NZ which is the South Pacific backdoor immigration route…..

    • acker says:

      10:50am | 12/01/11

      Re-open the Nauru detention center, they are willing to have it and it was an effective deterrent.

    • Tracy says:

      11:37am | 12/01/11

      @Kate
      The difference between plane arrivals and boat arrivals is that the latter enables unscrupulous people smugglers to seriously endanger lives, resulting in tragedy. Therefore, the two methods of entry require different responses.

    • chucky says:

      12:28pm | 12/01/11

      There’s a really simple solution to this whole “boat people” problem. Simply require all “asylum seekers” accepted into Australia to spend the first ten years in their new country placed in various rural communities in need of a population/workforce boost - no closer than 200 kilometres from any capital city.

      They wouldn’t become permanent residents until after they’ve done their ten years. They wouldn’t get a choice where they are placed - and there’d be NO automatic right to bring the rest of their family over until the’ve done their ten years. The whole point is to deliberately place them away from other “asylum seekers” from similar backgrounds, encouraging both integration and diversification.

      This would serve multiple purposes - as it would greatly help out those rural communities, encourage a greater understanding of the Australian way of life, and mainly, it would rapidly sort out the genuine refugees from the country-shopping economic opportunists.

      Anyone genuinely in need of asylum, and not simply country shopping, wouldn’t have a problem with this policy - but I get the feeling the influx of people-smuggling boats would rapidly slow to a trickle.

    • Harquebus says:

      12:48pm | 12/01/11

      Asylum seekers who arrive by boat pass through several countries and pay people smugglers more than pensioners get in a year to shove their way in. Turn the boats around and send them back.

    • Catching up says:

      01:42pm | 12/01/11

      “Can you stop cutting and pasting your stupid list.
      It’s just your opinion and it’s very boring”
      Dot,  it is not only boring, it is mostly incorrect.  I have suggested that he does one for the Coalition.  It would also be nice if he separated the 2007 and 2010 elections.

    • GregE says:

      02:32pm | 12/01/11

      It’s wrong? I agree with most of what Dash has noted above.

      Where’s grocery choice? Where’s fuelwatch? Where’s the coast guard? Where’s the “cheaper better childcare”? Where’s the “more affordable housing”? Where’s the “root and branch tax reform”? Where’s the East Timor solution which Gillard announced to the nation? The insulation scheme was a fiasco and is still costing the Australian tax payer! There was a public inquiry into the school halls program. The ALP said they wouldn’t touch the private health insurance rebate and then tried to means test it and will do again when parliament resumes. Gillard promised “no carbon tax” and now she’s pursuing it! Gillard said she supported Rudd and knifed him under pressure from back room ALP boys. Are you in denial over these things?

      Please provide your evidence that none of this happened and it’s all in our minds. Which bits (you suggest most of it) is incorrect? Or are you going to make sweeping comments with no back-up?

    • Dash says:

      03:08pm | 12/01/11

      Thanks GregE and George.

      Catching up - What are you on about?

      Correct me if I’m wrong but Gillard and Swan were both there in 2007 as they were in 2010. Why do you want it separated out? Was a lie in 2007 somehow different from a lie in 2010? Or are you suggesting it was all Rudd’s fault? Ha ha. Same approach as the ALP factions who knifed him.

      Did the ALP promise Grocery Choice and Fuelwatch? Did they promise to open 260 childcare centres? Did they promise to establish a coast guard? Did Gillard announce to the nation an East Timor solution? Did the ALP promise not to touch the private tax rebate? Did Gillard say “there will be no carbon tax”? Blah blah blah

      Oh and if you haven’t noticed, the coalition is in opposition. Bit hard to deliver election promises when you’re not the government! When the LNP were in government, they paid off $96billion in ALP debt, left $26billion to Rudd (who told us he was a fiscal conservative then spent it in about half an hour), delivered 5 consecutive years of income tax cuts, and produced surplus budgets. This government had been in power over 3 years and has delivered nothing but the Sorry photo opportunity, the insulation fiasco and Labor backed builders with their noses in the taxpayer trough under the school halls program. And you want to defend that? Give me a break!

    • franklin says:

      02:53pm | 12/01/11

      Kate Gauthier: It is said that any civilised society can be measured by how it treats its most vulnerable people. So Kate Gauthier, perhaps you could ask yourself who are the most vulnerable ? And who needs our help the most ?

      A very great number of the asylum seekers entering Australia’s migration zone are able bodied men coming from Afghanistan. They are able to pay people smugglers many thousands of dollars - newspaper articles cite a cost of $10,000 to $15,000 per person -  although the per capita income of Afghanistan is around $800 per year or about $2 per day.

      In contrast, the most vulnerable refugees in the world are single women and children living in squalid refugee camps in Africa and Asia. They live in poverty and destitution and are forced to deal with hostile locals, an almost total lack of economic opportunities, frequent gender based violence, high rates of crime and food shortages. They are obviously unable to pay many thousands of dollars to people smugglers, they have barely enough for daily survival.

      Asylum seekers are not feared by the public, this issue is seen by many as a matter of fairness. It greatly offends the sense of fairness of many Australians that able bodied men paying many thousands of dollars to people smugglers can claim places in Australia’s refugee resettlement program ahead of those in much greater need, especially vulmerable women and children found by the unhcr to be refugees in very great need of resettlement.

      And, it is most perplexing why refugee advocates such as Kate Gauthier seem to have almost infinite sympathy for asylum seekers able to pay many thousands of dollars to people smugglers to arrive in australia’s migration zone, while completely ignoring the plight of vulnerable unhcr refugees living in destitution in squalid refugee camps who are unable to pay people smugglers. Very selective compassion perhaps ?

    • notsurprised says:

      03:22pm | 12/01/11

      Well said, I hope everyone else reads your comment.

    • Djushi says:

      03:41pm | 09/02/11

      franklin:
      One thing I would like to point out. Actually, several, but here is the first: having money does not mean one is not in danger of losing one’s life.
      Does this really make sense? There are more needy people on the other side of the world therefore we will transport these needy people back over there and collect the more needy people.
      It is not called selective compassion. It is called helping people who have made an incredible journey to gain freedom and safety without having to go and get them! They’ve come to us, we don’t have to go and find them to show compassion.
      They’re men. Oh, terrible aren’t they? So we only help disabled women, no able-bodied men? Since when does being a man disqualify you from danger? They get places ‘ahead of’ women and children in greater need because they are able to and the women and children often can’t. If a ship is sinking and a man swims to a rescue boat, you don’t push him off to drown because there are ‘more needy people’ still on the sinking boat. I have no doubt there are ‘more deserving’ people in refugee camps, and I would dearly love to bring them into my home and care for them, but if that’s not possible surely we can accept those who can make it on their own.

      Who are our most vulnerable people? The asylum seekers who land on OUR shores, not the people who aren’t even here yet. Yes, save them also - don’t drip blood onto our hands by denying those already here.

    • Stewart Henstock says:

      03:17pm | 12/01/11

      It never ceases to amaze me that these left wing,tree hugging, lattee drinking, brainiacs always instigate policies that end up killing someone.
      They’re anti abortion.. which kills potential human life and now they want the “boat people” to continue coming over at the expense of their lives potentially being lost at sea.
      Wouldn’t it be better to stop them from getting on a boat to travel here in the first place.
      Are you telling me all you brainiacs can’t come up with a single solution to achieve this…...
      You mean i have to stop work and rock up to vote at an election for some brainiac who cant even instigate a workable policy to prevent people risking their lives trying to come to this country by boat….and then you have the gall to tax me.
      F.O

    • stephen says:

      04:02pm | 12/01/11

      “Refugees flee Brisbane floodwaters”.
      If those soggy Aussies front up in boats, don’t let’em the back door, will yer.

    • Gregg says:

      04:05pm | 12/01/11

      I really wonder Kate why The Punch is giving this Centre of yours any internet bytes and it does not surprise me to see the codemanation your article has received.
      Aside from reading something like as if it was read out of a childrens book with no supportive factual evidence you have succeeded so well in presenting a real mish mash developed from the personal views and those of your associates it would seem.
      Why is it for instance that you do not show the people smuggling boat movements of the past decade or so, that information being readily available from government records - http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/bn/sp/boatarrivals.htm being one bit of information.

      But as for mish mash for starters:
      ” It is said that any civilised society can be measured by how it treats its most vulnerable people. Asylum seekers, vilified by the media and feared by the public, make an excellent target for unscrupulous public figures who seek to gain power or position through a culture of fear. “
      I do not think that all media vilify them nor are they feared by the public.

      You mention the international scene and the UN and so perhaps you might just be able to get your head around the fact that the UN have refugees and displaced persons policies and a number of centres, Australia having had a sound refugee/asylum seeker policy for many years, one developed somewhat within the UN structure and that works on a certain ammount of law and order as you would expect of a civilised developed nation.
      Perhaps what many Australians find repulsive about the use of the people smuggling trade to reach Australia is not so much the disregard for law and order but that the orderly approach of working with the UN is being undermined and many many thousands of needy people, most likely far more needier than people smuggled or airline arriving so called asylum seekers.
      It is about time that so called do gooders recognise the greater state of affairs.

      Your attempt to show fallacy of a punitive approach is just laughable in the fallacy of your basis for argument.
      It is discouraging of people smuggling that should be addressing for it is killing people!

      You attempt to muddy the waters with reference to people seeking asylum after arriving by air as many others do also just attempt whilst they conveniently remember to forget that arriving by air does not expose people to drowning at sea.
      People arriving by air are by no way given an automatic path to PR but the issue of a visa to those successful in applying still reduces the numbers of visas available for people to be sponsored from more needy circymstances and so it is only correct that applications are thoroughly examined which they are.
      Your second claim is based on outright lies about numbers using people smuggling when TPVs were introduced and then reinstated by the Rudd government and it is offensive that The Punch can allow such outlandish claims to be published and you yourself Kati can be deeply ashamed.

      ” Why should it take eight months to process only a few hundred cases? “
      One question you should research yourself and why do you not go and find out what is involved in making free accommodation available for families, how long will they be in it, what is the cost and are they being introduced to conditions that will make them want to hang on very tightly even if their claims are refused.
      Should they then be expected to repay costs to the Australian taxpayers?

      You claim:
      ” Asylum seekers are not seeking to migrate to Australia, they are seeking to leave a place of danger and find safety. “
      Really!!!!! and if that is the case, why do they travel through quite a number of countries that not only have cultures more in line with their own but also a predominant religion in a lot of cases common to their own.
      Could it be they have heard of how things could be in Australia for them?
      Certainly, communication is going back via free internet services available.

      So Kate, it is time for you and your ilk to get off your lofty perches and get your head out of the clouds and wherever else they could be and have a real look at what is going on and what it means for far needier refugees and Australians, not to mention those that are losing their lives at sea.

    • the Liberal Loafer says:

      07:13pm | 12/01/11

      Your comment
      :Let all asylum seekers into Australia.
      Then Blame Labor.

    • franklin says:

      10:51am | 14/01/11

      The classification of an asylum seeker as a refugee is a very subjective process. In the end the process often comes down to whether an asylum seeker’s claims are to be believed or not believed, and in nearly all cases without any real evidence at all.

      The problem in assessing claims of asylum seekers is that it cannot be determined without doubt what has actually happened to them. All enquiries after the arrival of an asylum seeker involve assessments as to whether or not the story of persecution they present is believable. The immigration department can make inquiries offshore to test the story, but this is time consuming and expensive and will not always resolve the matter.

      While the law says the onus of proof in a refugee status application is on the applicant, this has in practice evolved into applicants challenging the Australian Government to disprove their stories. As very few stories from dysfunctional third world countries can be conclusively and individually disproved the storytellers get the benefit of the doubt and so gain refugee status.

      For many years asylum seekers getting on a boat to Australia with an intention to claim asylum really only need to present a prepared story that is an effective distillation of the stories of previously successful applicants. The story has to be moving enough to engage the 1951 Convention protection obligations, but at the same time vague enough to be uncheckable and unverifiable. Identification and travel documents are conveniently discarded,  and so further an asylum seeker is from their home country, the more difficult it is to confirm their identity and the facts of their story.

      The entire refugee assessment process for asylum seekers arriving via people smugglers is flawed by error and guesswork, which greatly works to the asylum seekers advantage, and results in abnormally high acceptance rates.

    • Colman Ridge says:

      02:18pm | 15/01/11

      I just finished a short video with Oday El Ibrahimy explaining his brother Madian’s situation in detention on Christmas Island. His brother has lost his wife and children in the boat tragedy on 15 Dec, the wife and 4yo son are lost to sea, the 8 mo daughter is in the morgue still not buried.  Oday is asking for his brother to be released to bury the child and come into his care in Sydney.  View video here http://www.one80project.com.au/view_entry.php?id=83

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Sometimes, you’ve just got to stick it to the bloody ref

Sometimes, you’ve just got to stick it to the bloody ref

We are taught early in life that we should not question authority. We must listen to our parents, our…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

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