Get angry. Then get over it.

i'm a bureaucrat says:

07:46am | 28/01/11

a lot of it will likely be to pay for the administration costs. it’s scary how much of taxpayers money get’s tied up in red tape. inefficiency and waste is rife, and often fixing a problem is either not the key focus. not to mention that misunderstanding the problem is also a cause of wasted money.

Carter says:

07:55am | 28/01/11

I work in emergency management and am happy to shed some impartial light on this.

None of the money from the levy is going to flood victims. That’s what insurance and the Premier’s Relief Fund is for. This money is going to repair infrastructure (roads, rail, power lines, sewage, etc).

Yes there was, and is, money set aside. It’s in the order of $10billion and called the Natural Disaster Relief and Recovery Arrangements (NDRRA). Problem is, it’s been a big (financial) year for disasters and what’s left after flooding in Victoria, NSW, WA, Queensland (before December) and fires in WA won’t cover the rebuilding in Queensland. Disasters cannot be planned and therefore the amount we set aside can’t be accurately planned either. Some years there are billions left in June. Others, we run out in February… That’s also a cross party thing.

I’m not an economist so I can’t talk about raising capitol, but I do know that there are limited ways a government can raise funds, and many of the options explored over the last five years have been met with hostility by the public. For the government, it must seem like nothing they can do makes people happy. At the end of the day, it’s a very small tax and if it means I miss out on one dinner with mates (all it would personally cost) then I’m happy to do it.

Same deal with Singapore and my financial credentials, but it probably goes more to political philosophy. Do we live in a society or an investment bank? What are our financial laws (as legislated by both the Coalition and Labor)? Would we rather have appropriate social services and support from our Government, or massive surpluses (surpulses are easy to produce, just don’t spend any money. Howard perfected this).

At the end of the day, we still have some of the lowest taxes in the world and, although none of us asked for this levy, the people in Queensland, NSW and Victoria didn’t ask for the floods either.

I’m more than happy to contribute.

Tony of Poorakistan says:

08:20am | 28/01/11

You are correct - it is not JUST about paying the tax : 
 
1. Why wasn’t Foreign Aid cancelled for a year instead? Half a billion for Islamic schools in Indonesia, puh-lease.
2. Why not stop the boats instead and cancel the refugee program for a year? That would pay the bill, no worries.
3. Put the NBN off for a while
 
Those are three reasons I am stroppy about the tax but the main one is :
 
4. We cannot trust them to remove it when they say they will
I’m also annoyed that they blew all that money giving plasma bonuses to their ALP-voting bogan mates instead of keeping some of that cash for a rainy day, no pun intended.

Jman says:

08:29am | 28/01/11

Well said Carter!

Ms Manx says:

08:46am | 28/01/11

Cancel foreign aid for a year, that would more than cover the re-building costs. In this case charity should begin at home so let’s stop shelling out squillions to foreign governments and keep the money here where it’s needed the most.

Derka Derka says:

09:08am | 28/01/11

People,you cannot cancel foriegn aid when there are votes in Lakemba,this is far more important than your families future i would to suggest we double our donation so we can be seen as really nice to people who hate us

Not a partisan dolt says:

09:10am | 28/01/11

Hear hear Carter!

Jon says:

09:11am | 28/01/11

There is no way this mob will cancel foreign aid and risk future jobs for Labor mates. Rudd has just about set up his new career in the UN.

jf says:

09:12am | 28/01/11

Carter

Some fair points except for “we still have some of the lowest taxes in the world”.

Australia has some of the highest taxes in the world and one of the most complicated tax systems.

Skip says:

09:18am | 28/01/11

I agree the vultures will be out there ready to rip off this on the run solution just like the Pink Batts, BER, Solar as the tenders are done by the same people that ripped us off in the first place,  (I bet) also I liked the way Wayne Swann answered the question on ABC last night when asked about the opposition and the Levy as Wayne Swann actually said that Tony Abbott did not understand the Economy, what a joke and Swann does!!!!!!!

Reschs Monkey says:

09:20am | 28/01/11

Stopping the boats (@Tony of Poorakistan) won’t save 5 billion, but cutting middle class welfare will, particularly those billions given to private schools so that they can remain ‘accessible to people on lower incomes’.

Funny how these same schools, their bank accounts swollen with taxpayer dollars then have the hide to increase charges to ensure the riff-raff stay out.

BobM says:

09:22am | 28/01/11

The Gillard government shows yet AGAIN that they are incompetent and wasteful. Would you trust them with your levy?

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/thousands-escape-paying-flood-levy/comments-e6freon6-1225995781522

matt says:

09:36am | 28/01/11

I had to check this wasn’t another little bile-filled rant by Bronwyn Bishop or Sophie Mirabella.

Not so much a commentary as a paid-ad for Tony Abbott’s brand of “it’s all someone else’s fault”.

Steve Lewis’s piece elesewhere on The Punch is a much better read.

Chalks says:

09:36am | 28/01/11

Carter…you are about as impartial as Damir Dokic. It isnt about the raising of money by the government (“nothing they do seems to make us happy”...hilarious stuff champ) , its about the government waste. This government hs been a poor manager of money (unlike Howard…hence the difference in budgetary outcomes). Thats what gets under peoples skins. Dont carp on about limited ways of how the government can raise money…you should look at the seemingly endless way this rabble finds to waste it. If you are “impartial”.

TChong says:

09:55am | 28/01/11

Yes Derka, talking about hate. Deliberate irony? or you just lack any type of self awareness?

Babs says:

09:58am | 28/01/11

I don’t have a problem with this levy - our roads and trains lines, our transport systems in Brisbane and elsewhere - everything is half working and this situation is causing tremendous problems just in our day to day lives let alone for farmers and miners trying to move produce. The insurance and donations are not for this kind of thing at all - it’s government infrastructure and that’s what the federal government is lookin at helping to fix.

Semblence says:

10:00am | 28/01/11

“Those are three reasons I am stroppy about the tax “

All three reasons are just warmed-over 2GB/Liberal party talking points.

You can’t even think up serious reasons by yourself.

Talk about The Parrott !!

hot tub political machine says:

10:10am | 28/01/11

Thanks Carter. I didn’t know any of that till now and found it very informative.

Gregg says:

10:37am | 28/01/11

@ Carter,
Not too sure where you get the $10B idea from Carter but there is certainly the NDRRA and quite a bit of funding will be claimed under the guidelines - http://www.ag.gov.au/www/emaweb/emaweb.nsf/Page/EmergencyManagement_RecoveringfromEmergencies_NaturalDisasterReliefandRecoveryArrangements_NDRRAFundingAssistance

That Gillard is making additional funding available is not surprising and there’ll not be too many who do not see that may be necessary and the problem most people have this government is not so much about personal taxation but a series of financial misadventures we could call them or just plain budggetary management incompetence.

There are two main points of concern in how Gillard is managing this.
. Failure it would seem to follow what is already in place via the NDRRA guidelines
. Presenting $2B to Anna Bligh immediately!, she has said, whether she actually means it or not.
Both are typical incompetence traits that the Rudd/Gillard government have exhibited from day one in a highly autocratic manner.

There are many smaller projects that local councils will have worked on already and that will even include smaller bridge and road repairs, a lot of that possibly covered within their own normal budgetting for maintenance works.
As for the rest of the infrastructure works and those of more significant natures, a good close look is required into needs, options and designs, all of which is not likely to happen in a rushed financial scene.

Sam says:

10:45am | 28/01/11

Completely agree Carter.
This is for infrastructure damaged across the board, so we all have roads, transport of goods, sanitation, water etc etc.
$5 a week is nothing!

Lisa H. says:

10:47am | 28/01/11

Interesting points Carter, except for the crazy statement that Australians pay among the lowest tax rates in the world. Why would you say that?

According to a Pricewaterhouse Coopers and World Bank study in 2009, Australia is amongst the highest taxing nations for overall tax take.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/corporate-tax-burden-spurs-call-for-action/story-e6frg6nf-1225800970317

Chris Martin says:

10:55am | 28/01/11

Thank you Chalk (RE Carter) you took the words right out of my mouth. Impartial? Hmmmph.

Troy says:

11:04am | 28/01/11

@Carter, Thoughtfull insight Carter, Thankyou. I think the biggest objection to this new tax is people just dont trust Labor to manage anything anymore. The amount of wastage that comes out of this Government is inconceivable, and Australians just dont trust this Government with there money anymore. Every single “Big Project” Labor has touched in the last 4 years has not only failed, it has cost “Us tax payers” years of budget surpluses and put this country into debt. The otherside is also pi$$ed that this Government has been begging us for weeks for donations, and now they are just going tax the people who have already put there hard earned in, which is wrong and will seriously effect future charity drives that Australians have always supported.

notSue says:

11:15am | 28/01/11

I’d like to add my applause for Carter’s reasonable, logical, sensible and fair comments.

toomuchjulia says:

11:38am | 28/01/11

Cut foreign aid, why is Gillard avoiding the question?!?!  Take care of your own backyard!

Kirk says:

12:39pm | 28/01/11

@Carter Australia has some of the highest taxes in the world. Also as far as raising money goes we can affored to run a defict this commitment to surplus regardless of the situation is just bizare.

Spanish Girl says:

12:52pm | 28/01/11

I agree with Tony of Poorakistan.

This is a slippery slope we’re on.  We all pay heaps of taxes and we all know the government usually wastes the money.  Send in one of those champion frugal citizens we’re always reading about and get them to go over the government books.  I’m sure they would be able to do a better job at managing our tax money than the government has.

I’m happy to pay the $1 a week, or whatever it is, but I don’t have any faith that the government will stop taking it once they start.  And then where do we go?  Another dollar for this and another dollar for that.  Pretty soon, they will be reorganising the tax structure and I’ll be pushed into the next higher tax bracket without realising it.  I earn a modest $60K a year and for that I’m grateful. But I work hard for my money and I work long hours most days and I don’t like anyone taking my money without proving to me that they will use it wisely.

Hell, let ME at the government books and I’ll do a better job of managing the budget.

Matthew says:

01:09pm | 28/01/11

Gregg, it’s NOT a Rudd/Gillard Government.  It’s barely even a Labor government.  Why not just call it a Keating/Rudd/Gillard government?  Kevin Rudd is no longer the Prime Minister and didn’t even contest the last election as the leader.

Eric I. says:

01:49pm | 28/01/11

To those that argue Australia has high tax - check the OECD statistics for taxation as a proportion of GDP. Australia is way down the list, lower than most countries in Europe, Canada, NZ, and Japan. http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/41/7/46771947.XLS

We need to pay for the rebuilding somehow, and this levy is entirely appropriate.

Kika says:

02:36pm | 28/01/11

It’s for infrastructure - not ‘victims’. Victims still need help.

mickijo says:

02:44pm | 28/01/11

Tony of Poorikstan said it all. Stop the foreign aid, our own Australians are hurting. Stop the boats, our own homeless are in need. Stop this government trying to pretend it is Mother Therese and all the saints rolled into one. It is not. Stop the awful waste that has gone unchecked since this government was elected.

jim says:

03:28pm | 28/01/11

@Cater.

So tax payers are really the insurance for bad political decisions.

Tired of nonsense says:

03:44pm | 28/01/11

Why do we need taxes? The market is perfect, the invisible hand. Markets are efficient and always allocate resources to where they are most needed. The government can just sit back and chill. Don’t raise taxes, just wait for the honest, frugal and well managed private sector to fill the void. It works well in the U.S. look at the flourishing city of New Orleans. (What was that symbol for sarcasm again?)

JZCarr says:

03:57pm | 28/01/11

If this levy gets through Parliament, we should NOT simply “get on with it”.  We must remember this well founded anger and get angry again at the ballot box.  Get rid of this incompetent government before they do any more damage.

Drew says:

04:30pm | 28/01/11

She would have been politically smarter to simply reverse last year’s tax cuts, ie. increase general taxes at the next May budget over a 2 year period to cover the necessary budget for flood relief, with the added bonus of being able to announce a “new” tax cut in 2 years time just in time for the next election.

I think Labor thought they were being smart to be seen to be “doing something” but it has backfired, people are so used to paying tax into a big black hole that it’s easier to just milk them out of their money that way, rather than tell them what it’s for.

Hugh says:

04:34pm | 28/01/11

Carter - Australia is amongst the highest taxing countries in the world - we need to be to support infrastructure across a large continent with a small population; we need to be to support an ever expanding public service payroll; we need to be to support the wastrels in the ALP. As for the levy, the government collects about $360billion per year in taxes - the $1.8bn to be raised by the levy is a pittance in this pool yet Gillard cannot find it without a tax. As for those who say that “...$5 per week is nothing”, here is a proposal - give me your $5 per week and I will invest it - you’ll be no worse off. If we take the pink batts fiasco as a guide, your $5 per week will actually end up costing you about $9 per week, once we pay to fix all the cock ups created by Gillard/Swann.

RotHayek says:

04:55pm | 28/01/11

@Tired of nonsense - it’s difficult for the invisible hand to operate when we have a central bank pinning it down through the artificial manipulation of the monopolised means of exchange (currency).

When the price mechanism receives false price signals about the demand/supply of money (i.e. the level of savings), induced by central banking actions, it will form an incorrect price which will be later corrected when realised; this similar principle is demonstrated in the bursting of financial bubbles. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that what we have in the Western World is capitalism.

Gotta laugh at the socialist jokers who point to the GFC and 21st century fiscal shocks as disproof of capitalism.

Currency represents one-half of virtually every single transaction in our economy (excepting bartering); that’s an incredible power held over population who thus pay the monetary inflationary tax every year, without consent or knowledge of it occurring.

I’d advise you to brush up on your economics, you seem to forget we have a so-called ‘mixed market economy’ now; blending capitalistic industries with socialised banking and socialised welfarism. Those latter aspects represent a mass subsidisation of risk - both individual financial and corporate risk. This creates a moral hazard economy wide whereby individuals and corporations, more specifically the banks with their ‘lender of last resort’, engage in reckless and excessive risk taking behaviour.

You cannot have capitalism without risk.

Carlos says:

05:27pm | 28/01/11

Hear hear Reschs Monkey!

Those cushy private schools get more funding than the government schools and get to slug parents on top of that! Where do they get off, and what on earth are they doing with all that money?!

Carly says:

05:42pm | 28/01/11

@ Tony of Poorakistan, Mickijo, Spanish Girl

I hate taxes, I hate every (numerous) grab at my hard earned money and I am by no means wealthy. I hate the non-cash perks pollies get (a lot harder to put a value on, and regularly abused at the tax payers’ expense) and I hate the extra fees companies like the big 4 banks charge so their CEO’s can retire in luxury at their customers’ expense. 

However, I do think about those worse off than myself every now and again, and I don’t have a “them and me” mindset. I can acknowledge that what I make in one week, people in poorer countries might not make in one year. I acknowledge that though what I donate is a pitiful amount, it does make a difference in others’ lives.

Before you make a painfully uninformed judgement, perhaps you should go and see the reality for yourself. If you had to work in a sweatshop for over 12 hours a day for 50c or on a dangerous fishing platform for no pay at all, I bet you would be the first to cry foul and wish that someone else would save you…

Lisa H. says:

06:36pm | 28/01/11

Interested to know what RotHayek would say about EricI’s proposal about Australians paying less tax because he has a graph showing tax as a measure of GDP is lower than other OECD countries.

Apart from the fact that many of the countries that are higher ranking are of dubious health economically - and the fact that GDP is an incredibly gross and generalised measure - I wonder if the argument, essentially, is increasing mining taxes?

Because I see that graph as being too generalised to say anything much, beyond the fact that we are in the middle of an unprecedented mining boom.

RotHayek says:

08:00pm | 28/01/11

Lisa H. I would say the data in Eric’s graph is chronocentric and in the main irrelevant for the long-term.

There are some metrics that intrigue me:

Take for example our massive current account deficit, which we’ve been hemorrhaging consistently for a near good 50 years, the last CA surplus I recall was in 1973. Such is the de-industrialisation of this nation, we no longer produce anything but raw minerals and farm produce (which strangely enough, being the last productive sectors of our economy, the government continually wants to kneecap).

Every time Australia has a one-off trade surplus every decade or so our politicians go spastic pointing out what strong fundamentals we possess, ignoring the fact that despite a trade surplus in a given fiscal year we’ve still haven’t posted a current account surplus since 1973; whenever there is a trade surplus it merely pays off some of the debt we’ve incurred in the past.

But what most ordinary Australian’s do not understand is that the current account measures, in simplest terms, our ability to sustain our lifestyles. Large CA deficits = living beyond our means (e.g. U.S., U.K, Australia, Western Europe).
Large CA surpluses = living below our means (e.g. China, Central Asia and some Middle Eastern nations). History reckons such [trade] imbalances are not sustained, notwithstanding the status of world reserve currency, which has been passed around several civilisations over the centuries.

Second metric is the level of private sector debt in Australia. Australians are one of the most indebted people in the world, just pipping the Americans for mortgage debt in 2010. Statistics from Steve Keen’s Debtwatch suggest that Debt-to-GDP ratio in Australia has peaked somewhere between 160-165%. Some de-leveraging has been experienced so far, I am of the opinion more is to come.

So it is quite clear to me Australians are living beyond their means in a debt-fueled boom. I await the crash.

RotHayek says:

08:10pm | 28/01/11

The data in Eric’s graph also fails to reflect the monetary inflation tax, though admittedly being a comparative analysis these figures are absent from all the Central Banking nations listed therein, not just Australia. However the RBA, compared to its international counterparts, has been fairly restrained; the money printing presses are warmed up but not at full power like the crazy Americans and their Federal Reserve ‘quantitative easings’, bailouts and other assorted shenanigans.

We wait with baited breath to see if Glenn Stevens will copy Helicopter Ben.

Con Karvouniaris (CK) says:

10:03pm | 28/01/11

Remember the Ansett Levy and the Gun Buy Back Levy?? Was emotion running as high over these levies/taxes?
Maybe the sentiment out there is that the plight of the flood victims isn’t in the same league as buying back guns or helping the ex Ansett workers.

Strategy calling says:

12:28am | 29/01/11

Foreign aid is essential for securing stability in strategically vital arenas of Australian (and Western) influence. Poorer countries are pissed off countries, and maybe we need a few more Bali Bombings before certain members of the Australian public (to wit, those buffoons calling for a cut in foreign aid) can understand why we should care about anything beyond our shores.

Mike T says:

02:11am | 29/01/11

@ Con

Whats your point Con??? Is it that the past governement f#cked up so its okay if the current one does aswell????
Funny sort of logic really…....

Travis Stockton says:

08:21am | 29/01/11

The pne thing that seems to be missing from the explanation of the new Levy is Why we are now as Taxpayers going to rebuild infrastructure like Rail, that Bligh has already sold. We are told that it’s a private company, and since when did we allow governments to raise taxes to rebuild a private company? Further, despite Carter’s very Labor biassed and ill informed yet convincing prose, after a bit of googling it seems the reason Gillard is imposing the levy is because the State of Queensland is almost broke, it has already sold major assets to pay interest, lost its Tripple A credit rating and may not even have the collateral to borrow the amounts needed. Gillard is bailing out a failed Labor mate who just happens to be president of the Labor Party now and who with her insipid treasurer the gormless Fraser have run Queensland into the ground.

Now that my business is almost guarenteed to close, four blokes out of work and the three of us partners as well because our equipment is ruined, the insurers are umming about paying up and we won’t have power back on for another month if we can get an electrician to certify our electrics and if we can afford the repairs and rewiring, I want to know where is the Gillard levy to help me, I sure as hell got my tax department mail heaven or high water, they still want their money.

acotrel says:

09:15am | 29/01/11

The ALP should be blamed for the floods.  After all it was their policies which caused global warming, and our extreme weather patterns!

Kiddo says:

02:09pm | 30/01/11

Carter has replied very well!!!!

Maree says:

02:24pm | 30/01/11

Ms Manx, besides Carter, has written well!  We should help our foreign neighbours, but when our own are in need, we cannot help everyone. Wise point

Trevor Otjen says:

08:03pm | 02/02/11

I have never had the opportunity to vote for individual policies. All citizens in every country must include the desire to move to the ‘Swiss Governing Model’ whenever they discuss politics. 2 party politics is not democracy. It is ruling. It matters not which party is in government. The outcome is the same. Study the Swiss Model and see how real democracy operates. Link
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politics_of_Switzerland

Anne71 says:

01:03pm | 28/01/11

Please, PLEASE can we get something straight here? The funds raised from the levy will go towards fixing infrastructure vital to the economy, not just for Queensland but all of Australia. Have you seen the damage done to railway lines, main roads etc?  These are the same roads and rail used to transport goods to the coast for export, or interstate to supply the rest of the country. If they’re not operating at full capacity - if at all - then sooner or later the national economy will feel the effect.
The flood appeal money, on the other hand, goes to help people get their lives back on track. If the thought of paying a couple of extra dollars a week for the levy makes you regret donating to the appeal, then by all means claim your donation as a tax-deduction and get your money back.

Laura says:

01:32pm | 28/01/11

Funny you should mention knee-jerk reactions…

Glenn says:

09:08pm | 28/01/11

I live in a Bush fire prone area in the Blue Mountains. Every year I pay a bush fire levy on my house insurance and again in my council rates. Why is it that people in flood prone areas have not been paying a flood levy? Those states that dont have this type of levy in place on insurance and rates are no so smart states. If I have to pay towards a flood levy to assist the rebuild of QLD then I expect them to help pay my bush fire levy every year. Sounds fair to me. Those who say this levy is only a few dollars its nothing, I disagree, life might be easy for you to live and pay extra taxes, we as a family of 6 struggle week in week out. I rely on my tax return to buy for the kids, you know new shoes, clothes school stationary etc. I dont buy a case of beer ever, cant afford to drink alcohol as the Labor Government made it more expensive, we dont go to the movies, we dont go out to eat, we cant take the kids away on holidays. We are at the stage where we cant even buy groceries like we could a few yrs ago, Australia hasd become too expensive. I know we are on the poverty line but Gillard doesnt realise this. Not every household on a salary over 50K can afford this new tax.  Next years tax return I already know due to this levy I will be owing the tax office and then add the interest on top of the tax debt as I cant afford to pay the debt in one hit. Yep this levy is a great idea for some but just adds another debt to our household. Gillard can go get stuffed.

acotrel says:

09:21am | 29/01/11

Wasn’t there a movie titled ‘Get Carter’?  He must be a pinko whistleblower?

Richard says:

05:55pm | 02/02/11

Dear Glenn,

You should not have had so many kids.  Why are you trying to make your problems someone else’s problems?

Best Regards

Richard

Adam Diver says:

07:04am | 28/01/11

Chongie, you are trying your best, but Gillard got a pummeling on Sunrise this morning, and I mean a pummeling. If the gentle sunrise crew and guests are ripping into the left side of politics I just don’t see how you and your ALP “hacks” can spin your way out of this one.

Do you honestly believe what you write? You make so much sense when you speak of anything other than politics, but “People in time of need ?” these arguments are stupid at best. Where does anyone argue we don’t pay to rebuild the infrastructure?

Overflow says:

07:05am | 28/01/11

Given Swan and Gillard have already identified they have further budget “savings” to be made if the bill is higher than expected and given this govt history of wasteful spending I along with many fellow Qlders expect them to cut first and go to a tax hike as a last resort.

MarK says:

07:10am | 28/01/11

No.

You are manufacturing things.

I am a conservative. The government has to aid in the rebuild of Qld and Vic. That is a given. The argument is not about that.

What it is about is the imposition of a new tax to “fund it”. Why?

They can do it and not raise taxes. That is all.

Stop telling lies and spinning. Unions are against the levy. I suppose you count them among the LNP faithful

Joan says:

07:12am | 28/01/11

TChong: I pay enough tax…. Gillard is welcome to allocate a portion of that to disaster.  Rudd Gillard 2007-2010 squandered suplus, taxes and maxed Australia credit card. The levy is an indication that Labor has lived beyond Australias means and levy is really a tax disguised as good deeds to cover Labor past and future economic mismanagement. The NBN should be put on back burner… if Gillard were really serious, and reallocate funds to restore infrastructure in flood affected areas.Thats what all good business does puts luxury items on hold until business working at full capacity. But then Labor don’t know anything about good business management do they? Now with Henry gone…. who knows what sh t creek they will take us up.  Assuming of course that Henry gave sensible advice in first place.

Loxy says:

07:25am | 28/01/11

Actually TChong, between my husband and I we will paying an extra $1500-2000 which is hardly insignificant. This is also on top of making a generous donation to the relief fund. I’m far from a LNP hack, in fact I’m a swinging voter and voted for Julia last election but I’m getting sick to death of this ‘taxing the so called rich mentality’ as we are far from rich and have a mortgage, bill, kids to pay for like everyone else.

Nafe says:

07:33am | 28/01/11

Chongy, Its more of the principal of the matter. When Average Joe has a tight month, is coping with higher living costs, whats the first thing they do? Tighten their belt, cut the fat from the budget and trudge on. If the Government did this, cut the luxaries out of the budget and then found they needed to tax us, then im sure we would be a little more receptive.

BUT in saying that, Its not alot the government is asking. I would favor a permanent levy of this same amount to put away for a rainy day so the budget won’t be under any stress when natural disasters occur within this country.

Mal says:

07:38am | 28/01/11

TChong you are the original troll.  It’s about wasting money and then upping taxes.  If she had half an idea she might go alright but as it stands Gillard,  Swan and the rest of them are hopeless

Denny Crane says:

07:45am | 28/01/11

Hang on Chong,

Lets look at this, whenever a country has a disasater we give money, where does that come from, could that not be used here.

How about just cutting back the foreign aid and diverting that money to help us Aussies, i believe Gillard we elected Australian PM to look after Aussies, why should others be given australian Tax dollars when they can be given here.

Todd says:

07:53am | 28/01/11

I dont think it has anything to do with lack of Aussie Spirit, people have already donated, some well beyond their means, others maybe not. The point trying to be made is that the money isnt here now so it cannot be used effectively for QLD now. Levying us for the next 12 months starting in 4 months effectively means that it will be 16-20 months before the money is actually really available.
Plus all the pro-levy supporters have the misapprehension that this money will be going directly to those affected by the floods. This isn’t the case. The Govt isn’t going to be handing the money to those affected, they will use it to re-build public services, roads, rail, public buildings etc.
This means that essentially they are spending money, on all ready budgeted areas.

Peter says:

07:59am | 28/01/11

Yes Chong “were all in it together” except that some pay more while others don’t pay at all.Communism is alive and well and coming to house near you.I’m sure that makes you smile..

Julie says:

08:01am | 28/01/11

TChong is a Labor Staffer and a pathetic one at that.  Don’t even bother reading his one-sided comments.  I don’t anymore !!

michelle says:

08:14am | 28/01/11

actually Loxy + Joan you pay a minimum (that’s right a minmum not an average ) of $2100 less in tax per annum than you did in 2005. That’s how much has been given back to taxpayers in the lowering of personal income tax levels since 2005. This is due to the middle tax bracket where you pay 30c in the dollar increasing from $21 000 to $35 000. This has resulted in all workers who earn more than $35 000 (which is 90% of full time workers) paying $2100 less in tax per year.So you are well ahead before this little tax was added. Note both parties worked to increase the brackets.

StefanR says:

08:19am | 28/01/11

Loxy: in order to pay $1500-$2000 between you and your husband, you’d need a combined income of $300,000-$400,000. With this income, $2000 is hardly “significant”.

Your household earns at least 5 times the average Australian household. By any metric you are rich.

TChong says:

08:20am | 28/01/11

Loxy , just doing a very rough estimation, to be paying that much extra tax, ( by your estimation) for this levy you and partner ( combined, granted) must be on a pretty good earner, no doubt well deserved. (good luck to you).
MarK - some unions are, some arent - i thought you would be the last one, EVER to use a union stance to bolster your POV.
Couldnt Howard also have cut spending , why did he need to impose levies? ( dairy and cane farmers) ?
Adam ; What can I say ? Guilty. Just like a full moon to a werewolf, politics to a lefty , trotskyist, equalist, humanist, fabianista is just too good an opportunity to pass up from spreading my dangerous, commie ,gods hating, country and society destroying manifesto.

StefanR says:

08:21am | 28/01/11

That’s $200k-$300k and 4 times the average household income, but the point still stands.

Aitch B says:

08:25am | 28/01/11

@Chongy

Nice bit of generalisation, mate. Put all conservatives in the one basket and bag them mercilessly. Of course there isn’t one ALP faithful in the entire country who is against the levy is there?

Idiot.

I think you’ll find that many (from both sides of the political spectrum) are concerned about the possible rorting and lack of accountability that will come as part of this exercise.

Since 2007 the Rudd and Gillard governments have shown that they have great difficulty putting policies into place that are well thought out and well managed. You only have to look at the insulation fiasco and the BER to know that rorting and waste go hand in hand with poorly managed projects. If you refuse to acknowledge that then you are just confirming what many here think you are - a rusted on ALP hack.

I’m happy to pay the levy but my concern goes to who will be responsible for the management of it (Gillard couldn’t answer that yesterday), what the funding priorities will be, and whether it will be another instance of waste through the massive use of overpriced consultants and expensive ‘think tanks’.

I’m sure you won’t guarantee that and I have no doubt that your beloved ALP won’t either. And even if they do, will they honour it?

Gillard and the ALP machine have spun this levy by wrapping it in ‘mateship’ and therefore making it a guilt trip for those that object or have reservations. I believe she and Swan know full well that if they were really in control they would be able to find the necessary funds in existing expenditure or raise the funds by borrowing more. Hell…. I mean what’s another 5 or 6 billion on top of our existing debt?

Sarah says:

08:27am | 28/01/11

Loxy - If you’re paying 1500 - 2000 (I’m assuming you mean both you and your husband combined, not idividually) just for the flood levy then you both earn over 300,000 a year. Shut-up, stop complaining. I have a mortgage, kids and bills and only earn 40,000 a year. You are obviously over-privileged. If this happened to you wouldn’t you expect people to help?

dovif says:

08:28am | 28/01/11

Tchong

This has everything to do with wastes of government.

For example, if Gillard did not waste $5 billions on the BER, we would not need a tax increase.

Alternatively, Gillard
can cut more spending
go into deficit
delay the NBN
stop govenment advertising

There are many options to deliver the money needed by the Government to rebuild roads

They just want to take the easy path by raising taxes and hurting middle income Australians who had help with the disaster already

Ziggy says:

08:33am | 28/01/11

The late Kerry Packer put it best when he told the government he could spend his mkney better than any government so why should he pay more taxes? Giving money to governments to use for specific purposes is whishful thinking - like try to piss into a hurricane.

ian forrest says:

08:35am | 28/01/11

Chong its not just about hitting us with extra tax its about charity begins at home to me.
Indonesia -                $ 458.7 million
Papua New Guinea -      $ 457.2 million
Solomon Islands -          $ 225.7 million
Afghanistan -              $ 123.1 million
Vietnam -                  $ 119.8 million
Philippines -              $ 118.1 million
East Timor -              $ 102.7 million
Cambodia -                $  64.2 million
TOTAL = $ 1,669 million -to be given away in 52 weeks
..but wait, there’s more…  !!!!!!!
• Australia provides approximately 150,000 tonnes of food aid every year—about $65 million—to
Bangladesh,  Indonesia,  Sri Lanka,  Sudan   and   Chad.
• In 2010-2011 the Australian Government plans to spend almost $4.4 billion on development assistance to under developed
And now Gillard will give nearly $500 million for Indonesia’s Islamic schools which are largely moderate in outlook but there have been pockets of radicalism that have produced terrorists in Indonesia, most notably the cleric Abu Bakar Bashir’s school in Ngruki, central Java, where some of the Bali bombers studied.

Greg of Gippsland says:

08:42am | 28/01/11

The problem TChong is that Australians are getting sick of the death of 1,000 ‘little’ cuts. We get it through the banks who take their little slice of our accounts, we get it through the power, gas and water utilities who steadily increase their charges on the basis that it’s ‘in line with the CPI’, we get it at the supermarkets, the service stations (particularly at holiday times)... we’ve just had enough of these so called ‘small’ increases…

TChong says:

08:58am | 28/01/11

Aitch B- I’m not generalising about all conservative fans at all.
The *LNP party hacks is to make a clear distiction between the LNP trolls( which this site has more than its fair share of),  and conservatives.
BTW- I’m pretty sure that the levy for cane and dairy farmers was sold as helping out the farmers, doing it tough, -mateship, in other words.
If it was good enough then, why not now?
Sorry Julie - wrong, but thanx for playing.
Peter - damn straight!

Tiger says:

09:25am | 28/01/11

@ Nafe - spot on, mate… “Tighten their belt, cut the fat from the budget and trudge on.” Somehow, it always seems to be us taxpayers that have to do the belt tightening. Where’s the justification for, and economic implications of, yet another tax? Details please? Swan last seen heading for the hills. Joolya got a mauling on Sunrise and rightly so…just answer the question, woman!

wayne1966 says:

09:30am | 28/01/11

StefanR,

If Loxy’s family is a single income family, then they only need to earn $225,000 to pay a $1,500 levy.

On a single income of $225,000, their after tax income will be $146,825.

The average income in Australia is $65,000 which is $51,075 after tax. If a household consists of two average earners, that equates to a household income of $102,150.

The “rich” household to which you refer would be only $44,675 better off than the household with two average earners.

Most high earners need to live in a city like Sydney, which is the most expensive place in Australia to live, by far. The “rich” family to which you refer could easily be less well off after tax than a couple on average incomes living elsewhere.

Income does not necessarily equate to wealth. The politics of envy in this country is shameful.

It is time for a flat tax rate.

Richard says:

09:36am | 28/01/11

For those on 100K that’s $5 a week on top of the $510 already paid. That’s why people are unhappy.

Ryan says:

10:20am | 28/01/11

@TChong: yep we see that Aussie spirit when Gillard said she won’t allow this to impinge on her NBN and her budget surplus, I guess we just do as she says and not as she does right..

Aitch B says:

10:24am | 28/01/11

@Chongy

Did I say I was against the levy? Can you not read? Quote:

“I’m happy to pay the levy but my concern goes to who will be responsible for the management of it (Gillard couldn’t answer that yesterday), what the funding priorities will be, and whether it will be another instance of waste through the massive use of overpriced consultants and expensive ‘think tanks’.”

And to quote Mal:

“TChong you are the original troll.  It’s about wasting money and then upping taxes.  If she had half an idea she might go alright but as it stands Gillard,  Swan and the rest of them are hopeless”

And I see some of the ALP faithful are concernedhaving a whinge too!!

It’s a recurring theme, mate.

Enjoy the cricket on Sunday….....

StefanR says:

10:39am | 28/01/11

Wayne, sorry to disappoint, but the median *household* income in Australia is $68,000, not individual. This distorts your analysis somewhat. Also, Loxy did state a tax bill ‘between her and her husband’ so assuming dual incomes is reasonable.

Almost 50% of Australians live in Melbourne and Sydney so the augmentation of their higher incomes is well considered in the median figure quoted.

You’re right that income does not necessarity equate to wealth, but it does when considering the top semi decile of income. What’s truly shameful is a family earning 5 times the average income complaining that they’ve got it rough.

Sarah says:

10:42am | 28/01/11

I don’t understand why people are saying basically ‘who cares’ to Loxy because her and her partner earn a high income. Is it ok for them to penalised because they work their asses off to give their family the very best in life? Just because someone has a high income doesn’t mean they don’t struggle. Yes they are earning a significant high amount, but how much of that goes to tax as is? And why should they HAVE to hand over more money just because they make more. That’s not their fault!

Who cares how much people make, this should be a set levy I think, not based on income. Labour can’t manage money, it’s as simple as that. They’re pathetic and rely on us small people. Typical!

And to Sarah.. it’s your own fault you’re in a low paying job. If you don’t like it then change careers. I was on more than 40k a year when I was 17 at a dead end job. Just because someone has more motivation and a higher income than you does not make them “over-privileged”.
That’s just disgusting to say that about a complete stranger. You have no idea what they’re like as people or what they struggle with. And you’re not even paying the tax so why are you even having an opinion and complaining!? :s

As for the levy, I have no problems paying it. However, I do have a problem with the fact that all these people are still sitting on their ass, refusing to contribute to society and are yet again getting a free ride. It’s not enough that we pay dole bludgers incomes each week, now we have to pay their taxes for them too? I find that ridiculous and unfair. To those people saying ‘Oh who cares, on average it’s $1 p/w so no one will miss it!’ If that’s the case why the hell aren’t Government benefits cut by $1 p/w too? Why, because God forbid those people can’t buy their daily dose of cigarettes, alcohol or drugs? And they will actually notice the $1 p/w missing? They say that low income earners will ‘struggle’ if they paid this but we won’t. If it’s not a big deal and such an insignificant amount then why are people exempt huh???
I agree that flood victims should be exempt for sure though! But what criteria is that? Those that were given 2 days warning and couldn’t be bothered moving their belongings and they got wet? Those that are renting houses, don’t have to pay a thing to fix them? These people were ‘affected’ as such but they shouldn’t be exempt. The haven’t lost out.. yeah it was inconvenient they got under the house wet but who cares, big woop.. they are far worse off people out there!

I think this levy should be an Australian wide tax. It’s ridiculous that the people out there who are trying to make a better life for themselves are the ones who are getting kicked in the shins.. yet again! Yes, we bring in high incomes but I tell you what, we WORK for that money.. we don’t sit there and ask others for help. A lot of parents don’t see their children all that much because they choose to spend more time at work to give their families the very best they can in life. Why are they the ones who have to fork over more money for taxes that are already allocated for infrastructure!?

I think at the end of the day it doesn’t come down to people are complaining about an amount they have to pay or that they are ‘financially destitute’ if they pay this.. it comes down to the fact that everyone should pay!!! I agree with most of the stuff said above, why are we spending so much money on other countries, why are we providing lazy ass people with benefits each week because they have no intention of having a better life and getting a job, why are we providing asylum seekers with an income, shelter, food that costs us so much on a daily basis. There are so many other options to choose from and taxing the Australian population, sorry SOME of the population, is just ridiculous.

People don’t seem to realise this money isn’t going to flood victims directly. We have family who have nothing left of their homes, most of their neighbours are dead and all their possessions are gone. The Government is actually yet to help them out, they, along with many, many others are relying on donations and fund raising to help them get back on their feet. Why can’t our money go to these people directly instead to places it’s not needed. And it’s not even going to happen for another 18mths minimum so what are they doing in the meantime?? Where is that money coming from?

Charlie says:

11:07am | 28/01/11

Adam do you honestly believe what you write? i would think it odd if not morally bankrupt of some hack like yourself not to believe what your saying otherwise theres no need for debate or a democratic system- so while the centre left is working to rebuild the flood effected areas and offer up real ideas and solutions the right wing can continue to moan and complain like spoilt brats.  what a sad state australia policy is in when the debate is as narrow and devoid of any real discussion and just a petty tit for tat whingefest.

TChong says:

11:17am | 28/01/11

Thats the best idea of all Aitch. All this furios posting by so many , leads to sentiments and meaning soon devolve into , well, who knows what,
but yeah, you’re right.
England, maybe on Sunday- adds a bit of excitement to the game, leaving a good setup for the final game(s), although a resurgant Australia will make us all proud(er)

Brett says:

12:00pm | 28/01/11

@ian forrest - Why do we give money to Indonesia when they are 138th most corrupt nation in the world (of 160), and will just transfer the money into the leaders coffers and not build anything anyway? We might as well just transfer $400mil into the leaders of Indonesia and stop wasting out time…

Mike T says:

12:09pm | 28/01/11

Yep….thats it, divert back to your “your heartless chants” hopeing that will continue to divert the debate from the real issue… (govt incompetence).

You are correct that LNP trolls are bad, almost as bad as ALP trolls such as yourself

Loxy says:

12:12pm | 28/01/11

My what a lot of interest my family’s income seems to have generated and how many people seem to begrudge it of me. My husband and I earn good money because we studied hard and we work hard. We love this country and we do our bit. Between the two of us we pay over 100k per year in tax, we also have private health, use private schools and contribute to a range of charities. So you can critisise me all you like but we do more than our share of helping this great country. If the government insists on continuing to target people like us with more and more taxes they risk isolating the very people who make a significant financial contribution to keeping this country running.

Chris L says:

12:51pm | 28/01/11

You’re welcome to your income Lexi, and you’re even welcome to cry poor, just don’t expect the rest of us to sympathise.

Jason says:

12:55pm | 28/01/11

I’m with Loxy here.  People who get ahead and earn more cash put it straight back into the system with higher taxes and by spending more in general.  If you took all the people who earn over 120k out of the system, it would collapse in months or less.

And @sarah - chip on your shoulder much?  higher incomes are earned through hard work and sacrifice, not whining.

StefanR says:

01:16pm | 28/01/11

@Loxy I’m not criticising you because you ‘worked hard and earn a lot’, but rather because you have the temerity to come to a message board and complain that your household, easily in the top 5% earnings of the country, is ‘far from rich’.

Rossy says:

02:12pm | 28/01/11

“Shameful whinging, from greedy people” huh.  You’ve got no idea what you are talking about!  This emotional blackmail BS of saying people are “Greedy”, “unAustralian”, “Mateship” is the debate tactics of jackasses.  My husband earns just under $100,000, a seemingly decent wage until you factor in the fact he is the only income earner in the household and that I can’t work because we have a special needs daughter whom I care full time for.  That money has to stretch a long way and we don’t “qualify” for help unless I divorce him (how’s that for values).  As it is, I already grow a lot of my own veg, have hens and only have meat twice a week in order to pay for her medical bills and makes ends meet.  Once a year I splurge and get my hair cut.  And now this ridiculous excuse for a government (which is meant to subject to the people it’s meant to be representing) is going to take what little buffer I have to pay for infrastructure that was destroyed in a **PROVEN** flood plain that had been allowed to be built on by greedy QLD councils wanting to make a quick buck.  These same councils were shown to be spending $50,000 a year providing lollies for their staff.  You’re darn right I’m angry and I’m going to complain about it!  I have no issue with doing my part for society, and to insinuate such is insulting, but this whole proposal is not fair when it makes other people suffer while the pollies keep their champagne perks and I can’t afford meat other than sausage mince, and I though “giving a fair go” was meant to be the Australian thing.

Mark says:

03:27pm | 28/01/11

To those people bagging on the rich, you have to remember that usually these people are in positions where they can shift overseas.

I personally earn $150k, so probably considered ‘above average’, but I barely afford a 60sqm 1 bed apartment in Sydney and have little time off for a holiday.

I’m tempted to move to HK. 15% tax and you know your money doesn’t get wasted. I personally will have to pay around $12k for this NBN for other peoples connections, not just my own!

The greed needs to stop otherwise the core taxpayers will simply domicile elsewhere and leave the non-taxpayers with the bill! No one debates anything if it’s fair and productive, but extreme waste like we have seen over the last 4 years grates on people paying the taxes!

Paul says:

03:40pm | 28/01/11

@Rossy - totally with you. 

It’s taken me 25 years of hard work and sometimes utterly insane hours, to be in a position to earn a top salary of $150k.  I have one mortgage, one average priced home, a kid, and a stay at home wife.  The $750 so that will be taken from me amounts to $62.50 a month, or to me, roughly 0.5% interest rate rise.  We’re certainly not wealthy - not by a long shot, but frankly, even if the $60 a month didn’t mean a slight rebalance of the family budget, I’d be objecting to a tax that we shouldn’t “need”. 

I spent some of my time up in the floods helping out - I’ve donated… and now I’m being forced to cough up yet again.  Why bother helping next time when the government is just going to help itself to my pay packet. 

Perhaps if the government hadn’t wasted so much money… given away cash for free in the guise of a stimulus package, blown billions on a various schemes now seen as useless, and let’s not even start talking about the NBN and the obscene wastage going on in that project. Perhaps if the government truely was in financial trouble through no fault of it’s own, I’d feel okay about a minor tax rise.

But it’s not.  The tax being disguised as a levy, is crap.

The mateship line being sold in this whole arguement is irritating.  Mateship is about helping out our friends and neighbours in a time of need.  It’s giving a six-pack of beer to the taxi driver who drove back 25k’s to give back your mobile phone without the taxi meter on.  It’s taking the piss out of your best mate whilst holding him up while he’s struggling to stay verticle.

It’s not the government raising taxes by linking it to a natural disaster on the sole premise that they think they can get away with it. 

See you at the polls Julia, whenever that happens.  I just hope the Libs get rid of that idiot Abbott and put someone up that can be voted for.

Tired of nonsense says:

04:07pm | 28/01/11

I’m more than happy to see the government manage this crisis. The stimulus package implemented directly after the GFC was the best in the World. I can never understand the broken record statements of “bungled BER and insulation schemes”. The BER has been a huge success, only 2.7% of schools made any complaints from 24 000 projects. Meanwhile, the insulation program has only received 1%. This obsession, ideology, that the public sector is inefficient has to end.

Pelu says:

08:46am | 29/01/11

Sarah 10:42; send me your details an I’ll pay your levy girl. And I’ll also pay for your medicine. You must have run out. Cheers,

Macca says:

07:25am | 28/01/11

@Peter Oataway, the logistics of attaining a small rise in the GST and then filtering that into a seperate fund would unlikely be financially viable. The Levy (if we are going down the Tax road) is the most cost effective measure.

Loxy says:

07:27am | 28/01/11

Great idea, time to start sharing the burden instead of always targeting middle to high income earners!

Peter Oataway, Hay, NSW says:

08:34am | 28/01/11

@Macca ..shops/stores make cost/retail price adjustments all the time as wholesale prices go up and down. @Loxy spot-on everyone should be paying this levy, if primary resources exports stop food & mining the knock on is all other sectors suffer including welfare.

StefanR says:

09:08am | 28/01/11

How is the burden shared equally here? The lower your income, the higher proportion of it is spent on consumption. What you are actually proposing is to tax the poor more.

Peter Oataway, Hay, NSW says:

09:28am | 28/01/11

@Stefan ..the poor are not exactly going to be the ones paying more $ on a GST levy on expensive things ..but they do rely on welfare which the $ are determined by how healthy our economy is. They will be paying their fair share like everyone else.

Eddy says:

04:09pm | 29/01/11

Peter,
The infrastructure you refer to, particularly the railways, are covered by their own insurance premiums.
There is no reason whatever, Australia’s taxpayers should subsidise the rebuilding of them, that’s entirely up to their insurers.
Same goes for the mines, in fact they stand to come out of this better then anyone else, as they’d too, have insurance cover to cover their losses and rebuilding.
Farmers too, should have had sufficient insurance cover, after all, they live on the land and know very well, that floods occur regularly.
Now, as for the state, Australian taxpayers have been paying their taxes for as long as I can remember, the reason for this, is the spurous idea that the Commonwealth Govt is supposed to provide the funding for our infrastructure to make Australia safe and accessable during all seasons and time of the year.
This means, states such as QLD, that have a history of flooding, should have flood control infrastructure financed at least in part or whole by the Federal Govt, if that has not happened, the Govt is at fault, and needs to be called to account.
Same goes for the state Govt, who are also obliged to look after it’s people’s safety, by implementing flood control measures, again, this was not done, however the taxes the Govt collected disappeared in a bottomless hole and no one has been called to account.
Moreover, the state Govt APPROVED development within flood-prone locations as did Local Govt’s, did they build flood control measures for those locations to minimise the dangers ?
Not likely, did they benefit financialy from those developments ? You bet they did.
Now the Shite has hit the fan, and the total disreguard the authorities had for the people has been displayed for all to see, instead of calling for accountability, we’re allowing these people off scott free, and demanding the rest of Australia coughs up, covering the costs of the damage caused by the greed and shortsightedness of the people placed in the position of safeguarding their constiuents.
If you agree to further rip offs by these folks and believe it’s a good idea, fine by me, pay up and let them get away with it, while they scuttle off with their illgotten gains,  but I for one, do not, and will never agree to being held to extortion of the highest degree by these Mafia types.
Furthermore, Australians will pay a much higher price in the future, if they allow this behaviour to go unchallenged by the taxpayer.

PD says:

08:05am | 28/01/11

I can’t believe the moderators let through a post telling the author of an article to ‘get F**ked’. Hello! Hello! Is anyone awake at The Punch, or News Ltd, the world’s largest media organisation where some standard of decency is expected?

Meghan D says:

08:07am | 28/01/11

What a delightful and well-mannered fellow you are.  Thanks Tory - you have summed up how the rest of Australia feel - over taxed and highly insulted by this slap in the face.

Nonmus says:

08:08am | 28/01/11

Gee Adam, it’s erudite posts like yours that remind many of us why we would never, ever get on the Green bus.

Adam Diver says:

08:19am | 28/01/11

Me too, I am surprised they published it. I would be happy to be moderated on this one.

I just don’t like wolves in sheeps clothing, it frustrates me to see an article trying to be non-partisan with lines such as “give them this one last chance”.

mickey says:

08:42am | 28/01/11

Now now PD. Just get angry but GET OVER IT.

Peter Oataway, Hay, NSW says:

08:46am | 28/01/11

@Adam..if the government wants to do stupid things like continuing to spend on Murray Darling basin water buy-backs in the midst of a major flood, they deserve to get kicked in the head…I’m not partisan champ I fully support the NBN
I live in a house that has devalued about 30% since the Murray Darling Basin water buy back c*ck-up started, I don’t mind paying a levy, but I would prefer it was a broad based consumption tax levy so all Australian’s pay for it..including welfare recipients, as welfare is the benefit of a healthy economy. For our nations economy to remain healthy we need the flood damage done to Queensland’s primary industries and infrastructure fixed.

Vaunted says:

08:53am | 28/01/11

Adam, speaking of impartiality, allow me to refer you to http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/the-politics-of-debt-and-deficit-rule-come-hell-or-high-water-20110127-1a6s4.html  , where ‘Impartial?’ SMH economics writer Jessica Irvine quotes Wayne Swan: “In emphasising sound economic management, we must never follow our opponents into the trap of turning politics into a mere exercise in accountancy”, and then adds “How easily WE forget”. Well I’ve got some news for Jessica, and you too by the sound of it. This is not about party politics any more, this is about being forced to pick up the tab for Wayne and Julia’s extreme fiscal incompetence. If the ALP and the Greens think Joe Average is too stupid to be concerned about the importance of prudent financial management they are in for a rude shock. There’s not enough spin to wallpaper the cracks any more, and I’m speaking as a mere punter who (to my lasting regret) helped elect Kevin. The natives are genuinely restless this time.

PD says:

09:11am | 28/01/11

Tory, the point is not whether you or another author ‘can take it’ - it’s about maintaining standards - and despite the asterisks, that comment doesn’t meet the standards that are supposed to exist for comments to be published.

Gladys says:

09:25am | 28/01/11

You’ve abused the privilege, Adam. Set your own punishment. I say 1 week without commenting.

Peter Oataway, Hay, NSW says:

09:34am | 28/01/11

@PD ... Kevin Rudd might have preferred to post “get Rat F**ked”

Troy says:

09:55am | 28/01/11

@Tory - i agree with PD - although you are obviously able to ‘take it’, as you put it, this kind of thing has got to stop.  I’ve noticed The Punch is letting more and more of this insulting behavious and it’s not on.  Yesterday I had one poster tell me to stick something up my a&se; in reply to a comment.  Apparently that got through because he/she used an asterisk?  What exactly are the rules about offensive language etc?

Australia for Australians says:

09:59am | 28/01/11

Tory Shepherd is a very well paid journalist and should come into the real world with the rest of us.  Sunrise finally asked the question of Julia being asked all around Australia ‘why not cut foreign spending for a year”??????????? and she of course dodged it.  But that was the only journo I have seen who is honest enough to ask this question.  the people need to know.  Charity begins at home.

Harquebus says:

10:38am | 28/01/11

I wish a few more authors could take it.

john says:

10:54am | 28/01/11

@Tory, a) I love a passionate debate that makes the PUNCH live up to its standard as Australia’s best conversation, and the get F word, well people get over it, we all say it in times of passion, especially when we drive, so now and then during heated topics its appropriate.

        b) adam’s obviously a… , if he can’t see the resistance to this tax then he should…
        c) good call punch team, let the PUNCHES fly.

MarK says:

11:09am | 28/01/11

“Tory Shepherd says:

    @Australia - bahaha! Journalists and well-paid don’t really go together. I’ll only be paying a few dollars for this levy, which I’m happy to do.”

Really? Well knock me over with a feather. No wonder you miss the point.

Charlie says:

02:22pm | 28/01/11

far too much now i have seen the debate now turning into attacks on each other, highlighting what people earn and how much they will pay- i couldnt give a toss if the PM, Premier of QLD and any journo’s have given any mnoney- many are working on this disaster and i can forgive them at the moment for not having the time to fork some dosh out- i for one will doubling the contribution being taken out by the govt’s levy because i dont think i’ll pay enough- and like everyone else that additionaly amount will be lodged on my return in july.  its time we all grew up, no?

Matthew says:

06:58am | 28/01/11

Incorrect, those under $50,000 get off scott free again, and yet receive the most in tax benefits and handouts.  Apparently mateship has a pricetag.

Brad of Bentleigh says:

11:10am | 28/01/11

It’s also worth noting that when the ALP sycophants bang on about Howard attaching levies to the budget, their largest was still less than a third of this one.

That’s right, this levy is more than 300% more than any other levy imposed by the Howard government… and Howard removed them all. WHo’s taking ods that this will become permanent?

Anne71 says:

01:16pm | 28/01/11

Hey, I’m currently (just!) under $50k at present due to a change in career. I’d love to know what these “tax benefits and handouts” are that Matthew says we get and how I can get my hands on them All jokes aside,  I’m single, no kids and have private health cover. I pay taxes and I get no assistance from anybody whatsoever, and indeed, why should I? Seriously, there is way too much of the “I pay taxes so I’m entitled to handouts” mentality out there. And, for the record, I’d have been happy to pay the levy - in fact, I’d expected to.

Mike T says:

02:21am | 29/01/11

Sorry Anne. You need to be a “working family” before you are considered

James1 says:

09:18am | 28/01/11

Your first paragraph hits the crux of the problem many of us have, KH.  There is no need for a levy, as savings can be made by cutting out stupid, expensive programs and subsidies like the school chaplain program, deferring the NBN, or cutting back on things like defence force recruitment and government advertising.  So many savings to be made, so little political will.

Mr GG says:

11:18am | 28/01/11

http://www.usdebtclock.org/world-debt-clock.html

yep, any Howard fan like to explain how his system of shifting debt to households was better for Australian and not just making his gov’t look like it repaid debt.
its a live number but when writing this our external(private) debt was almost 6 times our gov’t debt.
Nations like Canada and China have about equal private and public debt. Most countries sit where one is about double the other 2:1 or 1:2 ratio instead of our 1:6 ratio, one of the only ones with worse is Ireland (which they say is going so bad it might kill the Euro)  at 1:10. even the US is only 1:4.

James1 says:

11:40am | 28/01/11

To be fair, Mr GG, taking on a personal debt is a personal choice.  It is not like Mr Howard went around to a person’s house, forced them into a car, drove them to the nearest Harvey Norman and forced them to max out their credit card and get $5000 worth of couches on 48 months interest free, no repayments for 1 year.

At least, he didn’t do that to me.

K says:

08:25am | 28/01/11

@ Waste in Haste- Umm I already pay taxes for infrastructure, why should I pay a “one off” tax for “maybe” a year or two? Anyone who thinks this “one off” tax will only be around for a short time are deluded.

Steele says:

09:47am | 28/01/11

exactly!! once they realise they can tax that amount they will do so in the future. just not for the flood relief

JB says:

10:53am | 28/01/11

@K the legislation for the levy has a specific clause that ensures it ends after one year

K says:

01:47pm | 28/01/11

@ JB Sorry but nope I dont believe it- it may say that NOW but it still has to go through the legislative process where I am sure two of the independents will demand that it be a constant revenue raiser.

JB says:

05:21pm | 28/01/11

@K Is that really such a bad thing, in that hasnt this shown us we need a permanent allocation in the budget for natural disasters? it should at least be considered

K says:

06:26am | 31/01/11

@ JB no that is what getting insurance is for.

Markus says:

08:01am | 28/01/11

They did see it coming. The Federal Government had a special $5 billion set aside in the budget specifically for this kind of situation (granted i think it was actually set for assistance for extreme drought, but that horse has bolted).
Where exactly has that money gone?

Sherekahn says:

08:29am | 28/01/11

Well said Redeker except for: “people who were too tight to have insurance.”  Some people ‘with insurance’ are not going to be paid. 

Let us show how different we are from countries like America who won’t even allow Medicare to exist.
A country like ours with its unpredictable natural disasters should have a Nation wide tax to create an emergency fund that can be used to reconstruct areas of disaster.
Even I as a pensioner would pay willingly.
Surely we all know that Medicine and its expensive equipment is costing more now than even 10 years ago.
More cures are possible now with this EXPENSIVE EQUIPMENT.
This must be paid for.  Therefore, why not RAISE Medicare to 2 %?
Why not persuade PENSIONERS to pay Medicare?  It would only cost $4.50 per week!
Why not CONTROL IMMIGRATION?  It only brings MORE PATIENTS.
It is a PONZI scheme.

Cactus says:

08:30am | 28/01/11

Redeker Plan: the infrastructure should have been maintained and expanded to cope with floods which are nothing new, nothing out of the ordinary except in those with short term memory loss. To keep bandaid “fixing infrastructure” after natural events is ridiculous in the 21st C. Shame politicians have control of any purse strings with their record of knee jerk reactions every time.

jf says:

09:24am | 28/01/11

“no one saw it coming”

Really? The green left have been banging on for years now about the increase in disasters brought about by AGW. How can they now claim that they didn’t see it coming? Unless of course, they don’t really believe their own BS.

Brett says:

12:16pm | 28/01/11

Or better yet they could have their infrastructure insured like every other smart person. Or if you don’t have it insured and are shouldering the risk yourself (think self insurer in the workers comp scheme) then you have the money set aside to handle this. Oh hang on, the government probably doesn’t even have its own superanuation set aside.

Mitch says:

01:36pm | 28/01/11

@jf, I Completely agree. They say they didn’t see it coming but all we hear about is climate change and increasing disasters. Along with this tax we see all of the governments “green” schemes (their supposed defence to global warming) cut but no cuts on schemes such as the NBN.
While I won’t miss $1 a week I can’t help but feel that the required funds could already have been saved. The Government and Opposition are continually telling us how much money they have spent and will spend in sectors such as health and education and how much their opponent wants to cut.
When I hear “we promise to spend $5 billion on health to get more beds in hospitals” I can’t help but feel that “Joe Citizen”, if given the chance, with no political objectives, could achieve the same outcome for only $1 billion. The problem is that as a political party, it sounds better to say that you spent $5 billion than $1 billion.
Then that cash gets tied up in beauracracy, comitees, rip-off pricing from the contractors who actually carry out the work and the wages of the politicians who just spent 6 months bitching - sorry, “debating” - it in the lower house.
There is always enough money to cover what the country needs but the government measures its contributions in dollars instead of outcomes.
Don’t spend more than you need to and you can have money for a rainy day. If the government did this they could lower our taxes and we would have more money to pump into the economy via spending which would create jobs and in doing so lower welfare costs and the government would see that cash come back as GST anyway.

Brokeass says:

01:32am | 30/01/11

I’d like to know the maximum too. After 20 years with the same employer I have just become redundant. As a middle aged man with a wife and high school aged kids, my redundancy package is not going to go very far after paying 31 per cent tax on it. My job prospects arent good at my age - being unskilled, and family dont really want to move. At tax time however i’m going to be in a very high tax bracket this year. Even though we’ll actually be struggling. It might sound selfish, but i’m actually more worried for my family’s future at the moment. I’m just not going to have a few spare thousand after bills etc are paid.

kap says:

08:11am | 28/01/11

Can I have the link as my UNEMPLOYED (yeah, we are really loving Australia, Tory) husband and two toddlers were taking so much time from me.  You know, busy mum and all that.  BUT ... unemployed after Labor GOT IN AND STUFFED EVERYTHING UP !!!!!!!!!!  So, could someone send me the link and I might have some time to view the interview, thank you !!

MarcC says:

08:35am | 28/01/11

I agree, the interview really showed up most of the bad qualities people already perceive her to have.  It was almost like watching a satirist doing a skit of all the Gillard-isms and fitting them into a 5 minute spot.

I find it strange that to combat the public backlash against her and her government, they choose to do more of the same stuff which turned people against them in the first place.

Talking over the interviewer with a pre-made script which doesn’t address the question, repeating the same lines over to try to drum the message across and putting forward an opinion which is so universally hated that it highlights how out of touch they are with people,

Who’s advising these people?

PD says:

09:18am | 28/01/11

Actually the ‘one last chance’ premise is false. It doesn’t matter how many chances any of us want to give the government, there won’t be an election until 2013 unless the government loses the confidence of the House, and the Opposition can’t form a government with the confidence of the House.

MarK says:

09:58am | 28/01/11

http://www.news.com.au/national/struggling-families-tell-gillard-weve-done-our-bit/story-e6frfkvr-1225995887434

There you go.

Or go to Sunrise website.

Essential viewing

Aitch B says:

10:07am | 28/01/11

@kap

Try this:

http://au.tv.yahoo.com/sunrise/video/-/watch/23988992/flood-levy-debate/

Doug says:

10:32am | 28/01/11

Everyone should listen to MarK.  He uses spaces between sentences. 

It’s very effective.

MarK says:

11:06am | 28/01/11

@ Doug

I agree

Thanks for joining in the discussion

I see you have lots of ideas

Lots of them

Lots

I was actually being facetious

Just in case you missed it

I thought I should be careful

Care to comment on the topic?

Anything?

Sloggy says:

12:18pm | 28/01/11

I watched Sunrise interview.  I agree with your comments whole heartly.  She constantly spoke over the top of Koch, because the more he spoke the more she looked like a pathetic idiot who is so out of touch with the Australian public I don’t know where to begin. 

She refused point blank to consider reallocating international aid.. obviously she has forgotten that Charity states at home!!!

Typical Labour.. the only way to fix ‘anything’ is to tax the people how ironic!!!!

Likes Joining Dots says:

08:41am | 28/01/11

phil

No need to worry about waste. I hear 20% of funds raised will go directly to the new website LevyWatch, that should put your mind at ease.

fairsfair says:

10:43am | 28/01/11

LJD - did a taskforce put that one together?

MarK says:

12:59pm | 28/01/11

The idea to start a Levy watch task-force is still in the pipeline.

First the concept of having a task-force to deal with levy watch must get consensus from a committee made up of 47 people that went to the 2020 conference plus Oakeshott and Windsor. The Greens will get 29 of the available places to ensure their view is proportional to the level of their rhetoric.

The committee will report back in 2014. Or sometime then. In the future. Afterwards. Perhaps.

Spin Doctor says:

01:40pm | 28/01/11

@fairsfair. No, a task force wasn’t required. They did however commission a Focus Group to come up with the recommendations and then had another Focus Group review the recommendations of the first focus group. It was then sent to a Community Forum for a healthy debate and then given the final stamp. Trust me, it’s been thoroughly “stress tested”.  Nothing like dotting the “I"s and crossing the “T"s hey. I’m just waiting for the “Greatest Moral Challenge” soundbyte to work it’s way into one of her speeches. Her predecessor was the master of rhetorical claptrap and she isn’t far behind. At least he made it sound semi-believable.

Likes Joining Dots says:

01:54pm | 28/01/11

I should have mentioned it earlier.

LevyWatch is expected to carry an extraordinary amount of BS (spin drastically effects the backhaul capacity apparently), so it will have to wait for the NBN before that sort of capacity is available.

Apologies all round.

Conrad says:

08:36am | 28/01/11

Is that you Wayne?

Pro: Tax Cuts

Cons: Wasted billions on stupid ideas + this levy.

Aitch B says:

08:56am | 28/01/11

@Nathan

Um…. why would anybody praise a government for following through with a previous government’s commitment? The tax cuts received this year were the last round of those legislated by the Howard government. Rudd and Gillard had nothing to do with it except for the fact that they actually let it happen!

Rev says:

09:56am | 28/01/11

Nathan….if tax cuts are all the matters, you voted for the coalition in 2007 right?

Pete says:

04:04pm | 28/01/11

Actually the private health care penalty only applies to certain income brackets… oh yeah… bracket creep dealt with that.

Significant tax cuts were mostly for the lower income earners, the higher income earns generally got very little.  Of which, the government is clawing back a good chunk of mine… about half actually.

high income does not always mean wealth, not when you live in a capital city - and it certainly doesn’t mean wealth in my case.

Brad of Bentleigh says:

05:51pm | 28/01/11

The tax cuts were from the Howard government… they were already written into law (in effect) and so we cannot thank Labor for them.
Labor have introduced plenty though, and this is just another one.
The 1.5% figure is not far off the mark, and easier to say in a blog than categorising into first 50k, second 50 and then every hundred after that, either way, we pay more.

Stephy says:

08:12am | 28/01/11

Really? You’re sure? Because my grandma’s been an RE teacher for a decae and has never received a cent…

Tedd says:

08:28am | 28/01/11

Exactly.  Maralyn Parker puts it well

““The richly funded federal program - $70 million a year [in NSW] - has spawned a raft of Christian chaplaincy providers salivating at the prospect of sending their troops into NSW public schools.

“The Christian Research Association in a paper by Philip Hughes puts it like this: “While in some places congregational life is declining, ministry through chaplaincy is growing. With the growth comes new opportunities…’’

“NSW public schools, courtesy of taxpayer money supplied by the Federal government, are the new opportunity.

“....  what chaplains are supposed do in public schools.Their role is ambiguous and contradictory. Even the chaplains doing it seem to be confused.”“

http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/maralynparker/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/challenging_school_chaplains_is_an_act_of_faith/

Mayday says:

08:28am | 28/01/11

Good point P.

Watched the second part of an excellent show on SBS 2 last night about a court challenge regarding Intelligent Design being taught in schools in Denver USA.

The Intelligent Design folk lost because the court found it was just creationism re labelled but what really stuck in my craw was two of the school’s board members lied in court.

They were charged with perjury and the court case exposed this as the christian right attempting to maintain their power base by attempting to teach children fallacies and making a mockery of science.
What was that commandment again…....‘You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.’ ?!

P. Darvio says:

09:49am | 28/01/11

Quote: Really? You’re sure?

http://www.alp.org.au/federal-government/news/federal-labor-ro-deliver-more-chaplains-for-austra/

My other big fear with this program is I bet in another 10 or 20 years we have another large group of sexually abused children. This Chaplain program has all the hallmarks of the Christian Priest Rape Scandal - access to children in private secluded places, fear, and intimidation through religious indoctrination.

Who is supervising these Christian Chaplains? - Christians don’t have a very good record of protecting children do they.

Harquebus says:

10:42am | 28/01/11

I totally agree with you P.

Matthew says:

10:47am | 28/01/11

Can you also ask Julia to put a stop to funding Halal foods in our public schools as well please.  I mean if we are for total seperation of State and Relgion ... right ?

Tedd says:

10:49am | 28/01/11

Strephy, the RE teaching is volunteer-based and completely separate to the school chaplaincy program

P. Darvio says:

11:51am | 28/01/11

The PM should just take the proposed $1.8 Billion flood levy away from the tax payer handouts to religions in Australia for one year. Approx $29 Billion in direct or tax free exemptions is given to Religions in Australia each year

http://home.alphalink.com.au/~jperkins/TaxesAndSubsidies.htm

Lets say take 10% for 1 year ($2.9 Billion) from these religious businesses - that would alleviate the need to impose a flood levy.

I mean Religions claim GOD controls everything – so its about time they are made responsible for HIS (or HER?) actions and pay for HIS (or HER?) flood damage.

Mike T says:

02:39am | 29/01/11

@ Darvio

“The PM should just take the proposed $1.8 Billion flood levy away from the tax payer handouts to religions in Australia for one year”

If thats the case maybe the religions will stop injecting funds into the community in the form of charaties. What do you think it would cost the tax payers if religious based charaties stopped giving to OUR society…. think about St Vincent De Paul, salvation army, etc

On top of the charaties, you can also toss away the money they inject into schooling, Nursing homes etc…...

You obviously have a bug up your ass about reliogions, and thats fine, but you are seriously mistaken if you think that our community would be better off financially without thier presence. They pay back the 1.8 Bill and then some

P. Darvio says:

09:31am | 29/01/11

Quote: If thats the case maybe the religions will stop injecting funds into the community in the form of charaties. What do you think it would cost the tax payers if religious based charaties stopped giving to OUR society…. think about St Vincent De Paul, salvation army, etc

These so called charities don’t actually donate much if any of their own Assets/money. Its either donations they use or again funds through the tax payers subsidies or tax payer direct payments. As an example the Vatican / Pope has donated a whopping $50,000 to the Qld flood appeal - wow ! - how generous of them considering they have Tens of Billions in Assets – but I guess they need that money to payout the victims of the Christian Child Rape Priest Scandals……

With $31 Billion of direct subsidies and tax exemptions (Federal and State)  per year I should bloody hope they are injecting funds into the community – its mostly our money.

Hamlyn says:

06:30pm | 30/01/11

Wow, The chaplain at my kids high school really doesnt discuss Christian stuff with them at all! She’s there for them to help with issues such as bullying, depression, etc. All those things that teenagers might need someone to talk to about. They probably wouldnt if she talked religion. She also helps out in the classroom when needed. I found her a bit “out there” but very approachable. A bit like a drama teacher. Obviously they arent all the same!

MarK says:

03:47pm | 28/01/11

“As I’ve repeated endlessly BER was a highly successful ambitious scheme it should not be lumped in with Green Loans and Batts.”

I feel sorry for your brain.

K says:

08:30am | 28/01/11

@ gonzo, please look back to last August and reflect. No the people did not choose her or Labour- the indepenants did.

Craig says:

09:02am | 28/01/11

And the other side is “better”?

LOL. Try just as terrible.

/goes off to sing more off-tone songs about “I’ll stop the Boats” with Abbott face on

Paul C says:

09:25am | 28/01/11

Well said K

ZSRenn says:

09:38am | 28/01/11

I’ve been reading this article and wondering why these two independants have not been mentioned.

Let’s not forget they are independants.

They can cross the floor and vote against this tax.

I hope they are listening and they do.

Fred Biblic says:

01:04pm | 28/01/11

Not a bear in sight. The Bear Patrol must be working like a charm.

Brent says:

09:41am | 28/01/11

I think you will find that many of the people upset about this levy have already voluntarily put their hand in their pocket, in many cases (including myself) giving considerably more than $50.  That is in addition to the time that peoiple have given to help with clean up operations and the non-monetary donations that have bene made as well.

Those trying to justify the levy seemed fixated on describing it on a per week basis, as it seems to sound like less.  However, annualised, I will now be required to pay an additional $350, because apparently I am wealthy on a salary of $110k and already consequently pay a stupid amount of tax and get bugger all back from the Government.  I support a wife and (soon to be) 2 children as my wife has chosen to be a stay-at-home mum for our childrens’ benefit, pay an increasingly expensive mortgage, have cost of living expenses that are rapidly increasing and also try to save a bit of money for my childrens’ future education etc….At the end of each fortnight, there is no a lot left over and an additional $350 over a year will have an impact - we currently try to support a couple of charitable institutions, particularly the Royal Children’s hospital here in Brisbane and this new levy will basically mean that we can no longer do that, as the cost of the levy will wipe out our budgeted charity donations.

meinsydney says:

03:59pm | 28/01/11

crizza,  Many of us already put our hands in our pocket and donated far more than we will be required to donate by the levy….but it’s obvious you weren’t one of those.  And many of us already pay a heap in taxes and don’t get any handouts from govt….but it’s obvious you aren’t one of those.  Just because you didn’t donate, you shouldn’t assume the rest of us didn’t pitch in for our mates in need.

JB says:

11:07am | 28/01/11

Under pre-existing agreements between the Fed Gov and States, the Commonwealth pays something like 75% for repairing infrastructure after a disaster, irrelevant of who is in power. The Commonwealth will pay 75% to repair infrastructure in Labor held Queensland just like it will pay 75% to repair infrastructure in Liberal held Victoria.

meinsydney says:

04:26pm | 28/01/11

I’d like to know if her boyfriend is paying his fair share on the upkeep of the Lodge or is he free-loading off the taxpayers with Julia’s blessing?  She won’t allow gays to marry but moves a boyfriend into the lodge and expects taxpayers to support him?  What a hypocrite. 

Also, I sure hope she didn’t get paid for her day’s “work” when she made that very embarassing appearance on Oprah.  That was campaigning, not working.  I wonder how much Julia gave to Qld out of her own pocket?

mike T says:

02:45am | 29/01/11

Julia’s BF is earning his keep….....

He does foils and blow waves in the court yard of the Lodge between 10am-2pm, Tuesday and Thursday. I think you can get a voucher from you shopped dockets (not redeemable for those that earn over 50K though)

John Smythe says:

09:14am | 28/01/11

Totally agree. How Australians sit on their arses moaning about this govt that govt, and NOT do something about it makes me wonder if in fact they are the M to the S govt.

What an absolute shambles.

PD says:

09:15am | 28/01/11

There is no provision in the constitution for an election to be called just because people demand it on blogs. It would require a vote of no-confidence to be carried in the lower house, and even then, the Governor-General would first check whether the Opposition could form government without an election.

John says:

11:38am | 28/01/11

Semantics PD…...The independents could be urged to withdraw their support….We are weak and collectively deserve what we get….

meinsydney says:

04:30pm | 28/01/11

We are supposed to live in a democracy.  She was not voted in to the position of PM, she used taxpayer dollars to bribe her way into that position.  This should never be allowed to happen again.

Mr GG says:

11:23am | 28/01/11

being able to afford a house and raise a family would be an incentive, since the Average paid Aussie doesn’t have a hope any more.

why tax everyone, the suffering of the few for the good of the many (held as the principle of good gov’t since mankind was living in caves), just confiscate the wealth of some ‘born-rich’ they didn’t do anything to deserve it anyway. We can start with James Packer there is a few billion right there just by making 1 person suffer.

wise owl says:

08:05pm | 28/01/11

That’s why I have encouraged my Children to go to the US. It’s still the land of “success is good”. In Australia success is bad. With a degree in nano-science, my eldest makes twice what he can get here, yet pays little tax compared to here. The top tax rate in the US doesn’t cut in until 500,000 or something like that. It is much easier to be succesful in the US, and not feel like a cash cow for Government, which is the way I feel. My levy will be $1000, and with 5 dependants it will still hurt on top of all the other tax I already pay.

Daryl says:

11:41am | 28/01/11

Holly, as an ALP voter, chances are you don’t have to pay very much for this levy if anything. It’s easy to say the things you do when you’re not being slugged by a government that is wasting the significant taxes you already pay. I resent the fact that I have to pay almost twice the average wage in tax every year only to be asked to pay the lions share of another levy because the ALP has pissed away the taxes I’ve already paid them!

If they didn’t fuck up the insulation scheme, allowed taxes to be rorted under the school halls program or pay bribes to independents to get back into office, they wouldn’t be asking for more money. That’s the point! It’s not about helping out, it’s about the waste followed by the ALP hand back into the pockets of the biggest personal tax payers in the country!

btw - there has been no Labor tax cuts. They delivered the ones that were LAW under the Howard government. Labor and the greens are about increasing our taxes. Profits tax, flood tax, carbon tax, removal of the private health tax rebate, removal of the superannuation concessional tax benefits, stealing the GST from the states!

Oh and btw, I get zero welfare and the tax take under this levy for me is not tiny. As I said before, those that already pay the most tax are expected to pay the lions share of this as well. And surprise surprise they tend not to be from the ALP demographic!

Mal says:

01:29pm | 28/01/11

Holly.  It’s about mismanagement of money and then asking for more.  She is a dud.  You can’t defend her with hysterics.

GB says:

02:48pm | 28/01/11

Well gee Holly, you wouldn’t have directly benefitted out of the largesse of this current Govt. by any chance would you? Either that or you’re a staffer at ALP HQ. I really hope you’re enjoying your Plasma TV, new insulation, and $2 million tuck shop at your kid’s school. I tell you what, seeing as we’re discussing donations, I’ll gladly part with some of my heard earned to you directly so you can buy yourself a clue.

Matt says:

10:16am | 28/01/11

Fantastic idea!!!  But it’s not politically correct so it won’t happen - I’m surprised it even got printed on a Murdoch run Labor supporting website such as this one…...

But you have my vote….

TChong says:

10:46am | 28/01/11

Matty - The Punch is a “Murdoch run Labor supporting website “
ROFLMFAO !!! 
That is funny, and I think it might cause a few winces amongst some editors, and article contributors.
As for the regular contributing gang of Right, so prominently featured, they must be in slack jawed disbelief that you have failed to heed their message.

hot tub political machine says:

01:44pm | 28/01/11

Oh Matt,

This is either troll of the year or disconnect from reality of the year. The Owner of Fox New’s own left wing website….

Swarley says:

09:44am | 28/01/11

“But this is a one-off, tiny payment, means tested, and you probably won’t even notice it.  “

They’re always one offs, and most of the time they stay.  Heard Gillard this morning say “We’ll legislate that it’ll go after a year”.  Yeah, that’s good.  That’s like the fat kid saying he’ll just eat this pie and won’t eat another.  Bah.

Elphaba says:

10:26am | 28/01/11

@Swarley, I don’t believe it’ll go beyond a year.  By 2013 she and her government will be publicly begging for votes.  If she doesn’t stop the levy at the 12 month mark, she’ll be crucified by the same characters that helped her knife Rudd.

I agree, there is much to be cynical about.  I didn’t vote for them because I knew that a money management fiasco would ensue.  But I think she’ll stick to this one.

P. Darvio says:

08:59am | 28/01/11

Global Warming??...yes your Bible says that is a myth as well

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U5yNZ1U37sE

Quote: School Chaplains aren’t there to teach religious education (thats done by unpaid volunteers). Chaplains are there as a support network for kids.

This is the biggest load of rubbish I have read for a long time and a lie, and a pathetic attempt to distort facts and what is actually happening.

From the NSCA website – an Organisation that also represents the Scripture Union in at least 3 States

http://schoolchaplaincy.org.au/about-school-chaplaincy/

-School chaplains have an educative role in the areas of beliefs, values, morals, ethics and religion.

-School chaplains encourage reflection about the spiritual dimensions of life.

I mean please get your facts straight – don’t lie – it’s a bad reflection on your religion…..or maybe it isnt?.

P. Darvio says:

09:24am | 28/01/11

Quote: Have a look at the scripture union webpage before you proceed to waive your stupidity around like a flag.
Really? !....m’mmm lets see what the Scripture Union Webpage actually says

Quote - from http://www.scriptureunion.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=47&Itemid=86

About SUA

SUA (Scripture Union Australia) is part of a global movement that has been working for the cause of the Christ since 1867 and is currently in over 130 countries.

Working with the churches, Scripture Union aims

a.to make God’s Good News known to children, young people and families and

b.to encourage people of all ages to meet God daily through the Bible and prayer so that they may come to personal faith in our Lord Jesus Christ, grow in Christian maturity and become both committed church members and servants of a world in need.

AND (their working principles - some principles!!)

http://www.scriptureunion.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48:working-principals&catid=25:about&Itemid=64

....don’t see anything there that says EXCEPT AT GOVERNMENT FUNDED PUBCLIC SCOOLS…...

You are a lier - and a sad but true reflection of the Christian religion.

Ken says:

12:02pm | 28/01/11

hi P. Darvio,

What a toxic little ignorant troll you are. It is sad that you have such anger towards deep beliefs that bring so much comfort and peace to so many people. Obviously your ignorant understanding of the universe as per the “Enlightenment” is working wonders for you. Let me know how it all goes on your death-bed…

Sad.

P. Darvio says:

12:48pm | 28/01/11

Quote: What a toxic little ignorant troll you are. It is sad that you have such anger towards deep beliefs that bring so much comfort and peace to so many people.

M’mmmm - toxic troll - that’s a new one - how Christian of you. The best reply I can think of - for the time being - but sums it up pretty good I think.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n56u6omxeOs

I think Kerry Parker summed it up pretty well about whats on the “other side”

http://www.reference.com/browse/Kerry_Packer

Packer reportedly suffered as many as eight heart attacks. In 1990, while playing polo at Warwick Farm, Sydney, he suffered a heart attack that left him clinically dead for six minutes. Packer was revived and later famously told reporter Ray Martin on A Current Affair, “The good news is there is no devil. The bad news is there is no heaven.”

Mike T says:

02:56am | 29/01/11

@ P darvio

Well i wasnt sure if thier was life after death, but if KP says thier aint, well then i guess thier aint!!!!!!!

Thankyou for you ground breaking study based on N=1. Can you confrim if it was randomised, placebo controlled??

rufus says:

09:26am | 28/01/11

Do you understand that the $1.7B in foreign aid is less than 2% of government spending?  It IS what’s left over, in other words. And we provide aid to poor neighbouring countries like PNG, the Solomons and Indonesia because the aid buys a little influence, relieves poverty and provides education, and perhaps reduces the possibility of hostile feelings against Australia in these sometimes unstable countries. Worth every cent.

JB says:

11:10am | 28/01/11

@Rufus: Well said, it also leads to development which means in future we can reduce how much we spend on foreign aid. It is a mutually beneficial arrangement

michelle says:

03:31pm | 28/01/11

rufus you are absolutely right- everybody keeps saying the government should run the economy like a business. Well that’s what they do with foreign aid. Every company I know has a slush fund to entertain” potential clients” overseas countries are those potential clients for us to sell our exports to. We offer aid and education - 1. it can often improve the standard of living and 2. It makes it easier to get a better deal when you want to sell something to them it’s called Quid pro quo.  The most cleverest country to do this was the US after World War II - they took themselves and their products around the world following the trail of foreign aid - Europe in the 40’s + 50’s, south east asia in the 60’s + 70’s South America and China in the late 80’s and 90’s and now Iraq and soon afghanistan all of these regions were the fastest growing consumers worldwide of American goods during those periods- it is no coinicdence that America w\either handed out foreign aid or fought wars (that weren’t really their wars to start with) in all of those regions in those periods. 1.8 billion is a pretty small slush fund with a very big payday.

meinsydney says:

05:24pm | 28/01/11

Yep…reminds me of a wealthy barrister I know….nice house in eastern suburbs of Sydney, 2 expensive cars….then his wife showing off her big new diamond ring they’d bought with their baby bonus cheque.  WTH?  I work 80 hours/week, struggle to pay my mortgage, have never received a govt handout, drive a $2100 car, and am supposed to buy rich people diamonds?  I really don’t think the govt needs any more of my money.  They have no respect for the average hard working taxpayer.

Jordan says:

09:17am | 28/01/11

That is exactly right Tony.

This is just a way of transferring even more cash into the pockets of the chosen few.

The major contractors all know who is going to get the work already.

StefanR says:

09:52am | 28/01/11

This is because you benefit so much more from a stable society than people on $100k. And in all likelihood the government chipped in a whole lot for the education that allows you to be so wealthy.

John says:

07:53pm | 08/02/11

So I benefit so much more do I? In what way Stefan, please enlighten me? Perhaps I benefit by having the state dictate to me how a very large chunk of my money shall be spent via taxes?

And you clearly have no idea what education costs, not just in a financial way but in time, effort, and personal sacrifice. But then you wouldn’t really care, would you as long as someone else pays for your kids?

Anna says:

12:47pm | 28/01/11

Maybe ‘struggling families’ should think of having less kids if they are doing it so tough?

Dash says:

03:02pm | 28/01/11

But Anna the ALP promised to be for working families remember? They promised us cheaper groceries, cheaper fuel, more affordable housing, cheaper books for all Australians, cheaper better childcare, to build 265 childcare centres, and for no child to live without a laptop! And some stupid idiots even believed them and voted for them because of their promises. Remind me which ones did they keep?? That’s right, NONE OF THEM!

Dash says:

03:02pm | 28/01/11

But Anna the ALP promised to be for working families remember? They promised us cheaper groceries, cheaper fuel, more affordable housing, cheaper books for all Australians, cheaper better childcare, to build 265 childcare centres, and for no child to live without a laptop! And some stupid idiots even believed them and voted for them because of their promises. Remind me which ones did they keep?? That’s right, NONE OF THEM!

hot tub political machine says:

09:20am | 28/01/11

I think something close to 60% of all tax goes on health, so that gives you an idea of what your tax dollars do.

Also, yes remember the point about ageing Australia when you hear people complaining about big Australia - basically if we don’t start bringing in migrants as of now to replace all those retiring, we can’t afford to keep reitrees in a dignified state for their last couple of decades.

what? says:

08:48am | 28/01/11

GST replaced a host of other taxes on items. Some that were up to 22%

Jim says:

09:24am | 28/01/11

“Do you LNP hacks actually think you are getting traction with your nonsense about monetary mismanagement?”

Umm…really no effort needed to gain traction…wether you’re an LNP ‘hack’ or someone with only a passing interest in politics. It’s all there in black and white Cindy. Labor have sent the country into record debt with nothing to show for it except some burnt down houses and a few very flash looking school canteens.

Aitch B says:

09:32am | 28/01/11

@Cindy

Rubbish!! Spoken like a true believer. Rant on about the past to divert attention from the present.

The fraud was perpetrated by the State governments who reneged on their agreement to remove and/or reduce some of their direct and indirect taxes and duties.

The fraud was also perpetrated by retailers who were credited with the 27.5% wholesale sales tax thay had already paid for existing stocks and did not reduce their ‘before GST’ prices fully or at all.

Nice try but no cigar, Cindy…..........

And where do you get this “far below federal accountability” garbage. Remember Kev’s statement in the ‘07 campaign….. “The buck stops with me!!”

Except when there’s waste and mismanagement….. then it stops with somebody else. Like Garrett, for instance….......

Mike T says:

12:40pm | 28/01/11

@ Cindy

“You are not getting traction, unless you count the faithful LNP drones that peddle your nonsense in forums such as this”

umm, cindy…pick your forum….90% of the population seems outraged, thats a heck of alot of LNP drones. Maybe open a newspaper (any would be fine), turn the telly on (sunrise this morning would have been a good one), or maybe even chat with somone outside of you “green” cirle of friends. You WILL find that the condemnation is pretty wide spread on the govts ability to financially manage the county since taking power

MarK says:

08:48am | 28/01/11

Oh about 90% of Australians going on the poll numbers. Since it so little pay mine for me. It will only be 6-7 bucks a week. You don’t care….right?

Adam Diver says:

10:03am | 28/01/11

Mine too, cheers for that Tim,

Sucker for ALP tax take says:

10:30am | 28/01/11

People like me that have to pay $40 a week think it’s grossly unfair that we already contribute loads of tax and this government pisses it away on dodgy school halls and insulation disasters. Now they want more because they can’t do their job but let the traditional ALP voter off the hook. That’s why for some of us it’s a big issue. You’re lucky you only have to pay $7.

Tim says:

10:44am | 28/01/11

MarK and Adam,
All that 90% figure shows is that the majority of people being polled are stupid.
This government can waste billions of dollars in middle class welfare and people are happy with it.
They can completely F*ck up programs that should be simple and people go “Meh”.
But you try to charge them less than $5 a week and it’s like they’re asking you to donate your first born child.

Is that really the level of political discourse we have (or want) in this country?

JB says:

11:24am | 28/01/11

@MarK: 90% according to a non-scientific phone poll, run by 7 Sunrise, responded to by about 4,400 people, yeah, thats a perfect indication for what all of Australia thinks.

Tim says:

11:37am | 28/01/11

Actually I just checked the detail and it’s going to cost me $22 a week.
Still don’t care.

MarK says:

12:55pm | 28/01/11

Nice JB. You need peer reviewed polls now?

The thing I find laughable is the premise that you think people are actually in favour of a tax rise.

Awesome.

Well Tim what about paying mine and Adams. We still don’t care if you want to.

The only thing stupid about the poll is people like you and JB thinking that the result is strange.

Tim says:

02:28pm | 28/01/11

MarK,
if I’m only paying mine the amount is small. If I paid yours and Adams (as you are both on multi million dollar salaries) it might get a bit expensive.
Oh and I didn’t say the poll result was strange.
I said the people being polled were stupid, unable to see beyond their tiny self interest.
See, I’m sure that if I asked whether you wanted a Shit sandwich for lunch, the answer would be no.
However, if I knew that your wife was feeding you bowls full of Shit flavoured ice-cream everyday , then that no might not seem to make sense.
You’re eating shit regularly, you might just not be fully aware of it.
This tax may be another stupid idea by Labor but the reaction by some is completely out of proportion to reality.

JB says:

02:53pm | 28/01/11

MarK, surely you are are smart enough to realise that a poll based on people who have phoned in to a morning tv program is not some sort of definitive barometer of the Australian public mood, although the way you’ve been splashing it around on every comment where you get the opportunity to would suggest otherwise.

meinsydney says:

04:58pm | 28/01/11

Tim, Hate to disappoint you but I am both anti-levy and anti-middle class welfare, and all those ridiculous vote buying schemes that both sides of govt have been guilty of.  I donated generously to the Premier’s Fund, far more than I will pay by the levy.  But I already pay high taxes, and have never taken any govt handouts (didn’t even cash my $900 stimulus cheque).  I work 80 hours a week, pay a good chunk of what I earn to the govt, struggle to pay my mortgage and think it’s ridiculous that the govt wants to bleed me for more.

StefanR says:

09:56am | 28/01/11

A tax like this will not affect aggregate demand nearly to the extend that you suggest.

MarK says:

09:09am | 28/01/11

But you are not doing that.

What you are doing is paying an extra tax so Gillard can attempt to keep her reckless promise of a surplus in 2013 alive.

That is what you are paying for. Political opportunism after years of waste

Kika says:

03:04pm | 28/01/11

Years of waste? Yeah a GFC was a really wasteful thing to keep spending money on

Dash says:

03:41pm | 28/01/11

Kika, this levy will bring in about the same as the ALP threw at the insulation fiasco! Add to that the cost of the 2020summit, failed green loans, failed fuelwatch, failed grocery choice, rorting under the school halls program, $900 handouts to dead people, $14billion in bribes to independants to buy back government, $46billion on an unecessary second stimulus, $43billion on an NBN white Elephant, increasing use of consultancies and citizens assemblies and yes, this has been a very wasteful government!

And btw the GFC was averted thanks to:
1. $96billion of ALP debt paid off by the Howard Government;
2. $26billion in surplus left by the Howard government;
3. AAA rating restored by the Howard government;
3. The impact of the Financial Services Reform Act brought down by the Howard Government; and
4. China’s appetite for our resources

Feel free to believe the ALP bullshit that it was all Wayne Swan and Kevin Rudd if you must.

Pilby says:

01:06am | 29/01/11

@Dash - I’m confused you say the Howard government actually had 26 BILLION dollars of taxpayers (MY) money!!! Why did he need all those levys???
Not sure but last time I checked Dead people don’t really spend much even if you give it to them.
Triple A Rating just means you pay your debts. Plenty of very poor people have the equivalent. ( Why else would the banks keep trying to increase their credit limits on credit cards)
How do you know the NBN will be a white elephant? I personally think that for people like me in the bush it will be a great thing.
Dodgy insulation installers?? They will still be there regardless of who is governing, and they’ll still hurt people.
I didn’t get a cent out of the stimulus package but I know for a fact it saved a lot of jobs and kept us out of recession. ( and makes my dollar go so much further while online shopping)

I’ll happily pay my levy and a bit more. In fact if I could pay it up front and save on admin costs I would do that too. I’d just put of buying my new bike a few more months ( bushfires and floods, bad timing really!!)  I just cant believe the whingers here especially the high income ones.

Dash says:

08:00am | 31/01/11

Pilby, it would appear the surplus was firstly to pay off $96billion in ALP debt, then to give it to Rudd to splash about in his first half an hour of government! Do you balance the home budget? Save a bit for a rainy day? Yeah, that’s right a bit stupid to hand out $900 to dead people, spot on! Another example of this governments waste of our taxes. and they want more! Yep the AAA was restored because the coalition government paid off Labor’s debt. Well I hope for your sake, the ALP manage to deliver the NBN. Given their track record on delivering anything they promise, don’t hold your breath! Yep there will always be dodgy tradies, and great ones as well. The point is, the ALP ballsed up the insulation fiasco and wasted the same amount they now want to take in this levy. The point many of us are making is that this government has wasted our taxes and now wants more. The LNP has it right on this one. The government needs to find the money within it’s budget. They are using the disaster in Queensland as an excuse to raise another tax. That is shameful!

Greg says:

08:05am | 31/01/11

Pilby, AAA rating means you are better able to borrow! You are considered a better credit risk. In theory it made it easier for the Gillard and Rudd governments to borrow money than they if they still had the debt hanging over them. The surplus meant they started from a positive rather than the deep negative they would have been in and can re balance the budget quicker. I personally thing the Financial Servives reform Act did a great deal to save us from the GFC.

Economist says:

09:02am | 28/01/11

Thanks Ms Palin, but shove your US style rhetoric where it belongs.

Rossco says:

09:26am | 28/01/11

lol will you take up sniper position in a overpriced school hall?

Yeah, I'm over it... says:

09:10am | 28/01/11

Don’t forget that we’re all supposed to believe the garbage that “John Howard was the best this country’s ever had”..

LOL.

The truth hurts, in that the Libs were and still are no different to the Labor they harp on about.

John Smythe says:

09:44am | 28/01/11

My god…what a joke of a PM.

To sit there and tell the Australian population that they have NO contingency funds for natural disasters, in a country that experiences them every year (cyclones, bush fires, drought….) How absurd and absolutely condescending of her.

“No Kochie…that money is to ensure the budget stays on track…...”

As you mention above, it is clear her focus is not rebuilding infrastructure, but one of a political nature to ensure she stays in surplus. Disgraceful.

I also note her heavy emphasis on Qld. What about other flood impacted areas? More taxes…sorry levies…for them too?

Thanks for that link MarK.

Matt says:

10:08am | 28/01/11

I love the question at the start -

“Prime Minister - in an online poll of 4400 people, 93% of respondents said no to paying a levy to help build queensland.  Do you think you’ll have trouble selling the idea?”
“I believe that Australians want to contribute to help rebuild…..”

Typical Gillard - ignore cold hard numbes, and just go with your gut instinct…...idiot!!

Not happy says:

10:17am | 28/01/11

How much do you have to pay Dan? It’s going to cost me a month’s mortgage repayment! That’s nearly $3K. I know, I deserve it right because I already pay shitloads of tax. This is the same amount as that wasted by the ALP on the insulation fiasco. If only they were less crap eh!

Dan says:

12:20pm | 28/01/11

Not happy: if the levy is going to cost you $3k, then you are earning so much money you should stop bellyaching. Someone on $150,000 a year will pay a total of $750 ($14.42 a week and roughly my household contribution). You must be earning more than $350,000 a year.

Mike T says:

12:48pm | 28/01/11

@ Dan…..

So what if he earning that????? Should he/she apologise??? Should he/she feel guilty???

I earn no where near that, but wish those that do all the best….. unfortunately many on here think that any one that earns a good wage is automatically heartless and should apologise for their success…..

The communist wheels of this govt are slowly turning and this type of opinion is fuelling it

Not happy says:

12:52pm | 28/01/11

Dan, I already pay more than enough tax to expect the government to use it wisely. I pay a lot more than you do. I contribute more financially than you to society and to the ALPs failed policy waste. I therefore think I have more right to bellyache! About twice the right your entire household has. Remember that the next time I pay the benefits you claim!

Not happy says:

01:35pm | 28/01/11

The point is I dont mind paying tax and helping those that need it but I get very angry when my taxes are wasted and then I’m asked for more!

People forget that the high income earners are also the biggest tax payers. And they just assume that’s the way it should be. We tax people who create wealth and not those that destroy it.

You are right Mike, it’s communist. But then again, Gillard was the voice of the Socialist forum! It’s wrong for us to expect better from this government when they have continually failed us. I just hope people wake up to these nobs before it’s too late.

wise owl says:

07:51pm | 28/01/11

Fear not, as Socialism always destroys itself in the end, or as M Thatcher put it “when you run out of other peoples money”. Britain, from where we got our bad Socialist habits has announced it will shed 500,000 public servants, and is cutting back welfare, because they have run out of money. It’s only the beginning. Dan, you miss the point. Where do we end up if we allow bad Governments to squander, waste and over tax without protest?

MarK says:

09:01am | 28/01/11

No it is not.

What is a disgrace is a government so bereft of economic nous they have to use a disaster to make a money grab and as cover to ditch lies they told to get elected.

That is the disgrace.

We all pay tax. They can afford it. It is gross political opportunism to attempt to save some economic credibility after making a reckless promise re a surplus.

They dug the hole. Gillard is now going to be buried in it.

PD says:

09:22am | 28/01/11

Because the disaster relief funding could have been provided from existing government funds without additional tax, that’s why I object.

Lee says:

09:44am | 28/01/11

Its not about this! Its about the federal government introducing ANOTHER tax! Its about our skepticsm that it will not be lowered after a year! I pay out so much already to live, no its not going to tip me over the edge, but it ticks people off that we already pay so much to the government- its a little hard to swallow.

Daryl says:

09:45am | 28/01/11

Except that I have to pay over $2,500 despite already paying significant levels of income tax yet half the population pay nothing. Those that already contribute most to the tax take in this nation have been slugged again. Corporates pay nothing. Businesses who split their income, operate in the cash economy and claim benefits pay nothing. This is a socialist policy and given the government wastes our taxes on rediculous schemes and rorts it’s a disgrace!

You call it a little bit, but I bet you don’t have to pay a months mortgage like I do or have three children and a dependent spose to support as well.

Gillard is a socialist wench! It’s the top PAYG tax payers that are footing the bill on this one. After already donating, this is another kick in the guts for me. I hate the ALP! They have screwed NSW and are now inflicting the same on the rest of the nation. And I have to pay because they can’t balance the budget and don’t have a clue about finances.

Most people don’t care because Gillard is playing Robin Hood. But the hard working educated PAYG workers get screwed again.

Let the fools that voted Labor or Greens pay their bloody levy!

Ryan says:

10:41am | 28/01/11

Oh well, I guess all those coffee shops will be going out of business then!

Hansy says:

09:48am | 28/01/11

Simple we don’t save at all. Bit hard when you are getting screwed over left, right and center because you are middle class and have kids.

Jim says:

09:30am | 28/01/11

A ‘March for Irony’ perhaps? Since the ACTU and other unions have contributed to increases in the cost of living now for over 70 years.

Gavin says:

10:15am | 28/01/11

What wonderful anecdotal evidence. Doesn’t really stack up to actionable intelligence, but interesting no less! I am not sure how you got from a 1% levy (which I don’t think is accurate) to a million man march. I suspect you’ve been watching the Tunisian and Egyptian riots on television. The fact is, this is a pretty good country by international standards. One of the most stable capitalist democracies there is. The ‘extreme cost of living’ is an gross overstatement. We’ve got a good standard of living, the problem is we keep trying to load more and more on to it. The eponymous plasma screen TV critique is quite valid here. The best way to combat the rising cost of living (it will always rise) is to learn to save regularly, and make concomitant cuts in your consumption. The kind of revolution you’re looking for can be achieved by a little more saving, and by spreading your spending over a number of businesses. Don’t ALWAYS go to Maccas or to Woolies; give your local sandwich shop or green grocer a visit. Although moderation and diversity are not great rallying cries, they are always worth keeping in mind.

Davida says:

11:42am | 28/01/11

I believe the money is being used to pay 18 months of interest on the state debt that was around $85 billion pre-floods.  Already gone, it appears.

Reply

Dash says:

10:01am | 28/01/11

@Rob, I agree. This tax is the same amount the ALP wasted on their insulation fiasco. Put it into perspective. If the government hadn’t been so crap at their job, we wouldn’t have to pay this. I also resent the fact that those of us that pay the most taxes already, have to pay the significant slice of this levy. It stinks. This is the biggest socialist piece of nonsense I’ve seen in Australia. It’s unequitable! The corporates pay nothing. Those that already contribute the most to funding government expenditure, are the ones who pay Gillard’s levy. Bludgers pay nothing. That’s what the ALP stands for! Reward the slackers and punish the biggest contributers. Welcome to North Korea folks.

PD says:

09:21am | 28/01/11

Or the mining companies. Or retailers. Or News Ltd. That’s why we have a taxation system instead of relying entirely on philanth….philanthr…..er, donations.

Vit says:

12:37pm | 28/01/11

It is true!!!

Tony of Poorakistan says:

12:42pm | 28/01/11

You got that right. No way will I be donating anything else, now or in the future. 
 
The risk that you donate and then Labor pop another levy on is just too real.

Death to socialism says:

10:09am | 28/01/11

Spoken like someone who doesn’t have to pay $45 a week like me for this levy! Like most ALP voters you’ll be exempt. It’s easy to be empathetic when you’re contribution to the personal tax take is next to nothing! You are clearly someone who doesn’t pay enough tax to be disgusted by the way this government wastes it!

What says:

10:59am | 28/01/11

“Death to socialism says: Spoken like someone who doesn’t have to pay $45 a week like me for this levy!”

So if you’re paying $45 a week for the levy, then your annual income is $310,000 - almost $6,000 per week. And you cant afford an extra $45?

Death to socialism says:

11:49am | 28/01/11

@ What, I already pay over $100K in personal income tax every year! Don’t you think I contribute enough already? Don’t you think it’s reasonable for me to expect our government to use it wisely? If the ALP didn’t waste it, I wouldn’t be asked to pay more!

Oh and btw, you didn’t tax my $310,000 when calculating my disposable income! Guess you don’t pay tax?

Peter says:

10:18am | 28/01/11

Is this the surplus that was generated by all the “levy”‘s that the Howard Government brought in?

Where was the complaining when there WAS enough money in the kitty and we were all paying too much tax, and we had “gun buy-back” levy’s thrust on all of us???? Or the East Timor levy? Or the milk subsidy levy? Or the Ansett levy? All of this thrust on all of us, even when there was more than enough tax being paid to pay for such things?

Where were all the Liberal Party hacks coming out and complaining about their govt ripping them off?

MarK says:

11:27am | 28/01/11

Tell me Peter.

How much did you pay for the Eats Timor Levy?

How much did you pay for the Ansett levy?

Fill us in. Let us know your commitment.

Peter says:

12:40pm | 28/01/11

MarK - all up, depending on my travel patterns, close to $3000.

The point I am making, is that if these levy’s were ok with the budgets in surplus, then why did we need the levy? I know, to get more money from taxpayers, to spend on election porkbarrelling.

Because for sure, the levy’s weren’t needed.

Dash says:

02:40pm | 28/01/11

Nah Peter, It was to pay off $96 billion in ALP debt! And to leave Rudd $26billion to play with!

MarK says:

03:53pm | 28/01/11

So Peter you purchased 300 plane tickets between Oct 2001 and June 2003.

You sure do fly a lot.

Now did you pay? Did you “feel the pain” or was that your company?

What do I get for my taxes says:

09:54am | 28/01/11

@Mal, I would if I got the $900 in the first place! Seems I paid too much tax to be eligible for it and now this levy is going to cost me nearly $50 a week. Robin Hood socialism at work from Gillard! Hurt the biggest personal tax payers whilst the traditional ALP voter contributes little if anything!

Labor hater says:

09:49am | 28/01/11

Yeah slug those that already contribute the most in productivity and tax to this nation. Look after the Labor bums on the dole. Socialism is alive and well in Australia.

JT says:

09:36am | 28/01/11

It is rather simple to understand B though it seems clear you have no idea.
If I were to take $50 from my wallet and give it to someone in need, I do so with a sense of generosity and pride that I am helping someone.
If however you come along, take(steal) $50 from my wallet to spend than that makes me angry.
Taking that money may be for a good cause but the method it is taken from me, the lack of accountability and competence on the part of those who took it leave many of us (a majority by the looks of it) very bloody angry.
It has nothing to do with selfishness or greed, I think the huge response from ordinary Australians in terms of money, goods and services to those affected here proves all such accusations as false.

This has to do with an incompetent government again reaching into our pockets, to cover up their own incompetence, wasteful spending and mismanagement of our money.

Matt says:

09:44am | 28/01/11

Not all foreign aid goes to feed starving children!  Nobody is saying to cut those programs….

However, I don’t think Indonesia really needs any more money, and they certainly don’t need the promised $500m to build Islamic Schools.

That is half a billion dollars to build religious schools, that not only go against our Judeo-Christian heritage, but also are in an area that is a bit of a breeding ground for terrorists.  It’s also for a religion that seems to be growing quickly enough on their own - they don’t need our help.

Lee says:

09:56am | 28/01/11

@ B oh please, I earn btw $50k and $56k and it isnt a picnic so dont dont tell me to STFU. Most people arent even having a gripe about that- its about our mistrust about the governments long term intentions and how it plans to manage the money at the end. Go ahead be ashamed to be Australian- how inconveinent for you that as a DEMOCRACY others are allowed to question yet ANOTHER tax.

Hansy says:

10:00am | 28/01/11

I don’t think its the amount people are angry about. Its the idea and government behind the extra tax.

They have wasted billions on useless/failed projects and now have the gall to stab the taxpayer in the back again for more money.

Greg says:

11:12am | 28/01/11

B - having a bad day are you? No stupid friends to waste your credit on? My God, yours is one of the most stupid, ignorant comments I have ever read on Punch. Go back to your misery and leave the rest of us hard workers alone idiot.

Carly says:

06:13pm | 28/01/11

@ Matt

Do you actually know anything about Indonesia? Perhaps you should do your research before spouting off your slander!

1. “However, I don’t think Indonesia really needs any more money”
Indonesia is still an extremely poor “third world” country. The poor sometimes starve to death and child labour is prevalent in some parts, leading to abuse, injury and death. People work for a laughable minimum wage that can’t even cover their living costs and act as servants in some cases. 

2. “they certainly don’t need the promised $500m to build Islamic Schools.”
Education is the best way to break the cycle of poverty; so yes, they do need schools very badly. As for them being Islamic schools, Indonesia is a mostly Islamic nation (with the exception of mostly Hindu Bali). Why would they build Christian schools? Donating this money for Islamic schools is a great way to form lasting connections and understanding.

3. ” that not only go against our Judeo-Christian heritage”
Just because you don’t agree with something doesn’t mean it’s wrong. I’m not a muslim but I don’t see them as a threat to me, indeed, many Muslims believe Islam to be a peaceful religion. The extremists are definately against our heritage, fair enough, but you get them in all religions.

5. “are in an area that is a bit of a breeding ground for terrorists”
Oh, sweeping generalisation time. Have you spent any time with Indonesians? As a people they are some of the most polite and friendly people I have met, and it has been a pleasure to meet them. They are indeed devout, which you seem to find frightening, but most Muslims will say that terrorism is NOT compatible with Islam.
There are extremists in every religion and it is the vocal minority who have gained attention. (Is it that paedophile priests often have white skin thus aren’t as easy a target?)

Indonesia is far from perfect and they have a long way to go on many of the issues we would see as important. But considering they are our closest neighbour, it’s in our best interests to retain and open and friendly relationship.

Let’s say there are terrorists swarming around Indonesia, I bet that stopping sending aid is just going to thrill them. The best way to deal with other people is by sharing culture, but feel free to keep making generalisations and demonising people who will for the most part, be in a far worse off situation than you.

Kika says:

02:45pm | 28/01/11

Hang on, it’s very noble for you to have children but no one forced you to.

no more charity says:

07:23pm | 28/01/11

That’s not the point Kika. Gillard makes out that those who are better off are the ones paying the most. This is not true. More than happy to pay for my kids as I do. I have never asked for or recieved a Government payment in my life, despite growing up in poverty. The question is should I pay three times the levy of a family that is actually better off than I am?

Andrew says:

10:38am | 28/01/11

The Howard Government weren’t wasting billions of tax payers dollars, BER etc etc etc etc, failed policy’s and scrapped schemes.

ALP are Morons says:

12:36pm | 28/01/11

Morons would be those in the government who piss away the taxes we pay them on 2020summits, the insulation mess, green loans, failed grocery choice, failed fuel watch, school hall rorts and bribes to win office! Not to mention the morons who feel compelled to get on this website and defend these ALP idiots!

Only a coupla bucks a week for you Dave? Aren’t you lucky. It’s costing Australia’s biggest tax contributors quite a bit more! Those that already contribute the most to the ALP spend-a-thon continue to do so!

Andrew you are right, Dave didn’t complain about the Howard government paying off $96billion in ALP debt, restoring the nations AAA rating, leaving Rudd $26billion or delivering 5 years of consecutive tax cuts!

It’s funny how when Howard delivers the biggest round of tax cuts since 1936, it’s “disarming honest citizens” but the ALPs profits tax, flood tax, carbon tax, and the taxes lost on fixing the insulation mess or lining the pockets of ALP backed school hall builders, are all perfectly reasonable.

I think I’ll quit my PAYG job and start a business. That way I can split my income with my wife, put personal expenses through the business, declare half my income, claim benefits, pay no tax and avoid this levy!

MarK says:

11:02am | 28/01/11

How much East Timor levy did you pay nosthow?

B J of Sydney says:

01:00pm | 28/01/11

Funny but the people went to the polls after and overwhelmingly voted Whitlam out.  It’s called democracy Nossy, surely you have heard of it.  I haven’t agreed with a single thing Malcolm Fraser has done since but I absolutely agree getting rid of Whitlam was way overdue.

Jim says:

01:41pm | 28/01/11

A couple of hundred unwashed ferals climbed out of their trees to chant “Shame Fraser Shame”....while several million taxpayers breathed “Thank f*ck for that!”

Dash says:

02:57pm | 28/01/11

Don’t let the truth get in the way of a good story fool! Bullshit it’s only $1 a week! Not for me!

Remind me, what was the election result in December 1975? The electoral system was not bypassed at all. Whitlam was thrown out by the people in a landslide never to return! Because he was crap! Just like this ALP government.

It was democracy in action. Unlike what Whitlam did with the Khemlani affair which was to bypass the parliament to try to secure an unconstitutional loan to pay for his spend-a-thon.

The ALP has been trying to rewrite hitory ever since and now they’re paying you to do the same.

Abbott did not:
promise grocery choice
promise fuel watch
promise 260 childcare centres
promise a coast guard
promise no onshore detention centres
promise the Parrammatta to Epping railway
promise support for KRudd
Promise there will be no carbon tax
promise to abolish uni union fees
promise economic conservatism
promise root and branch tax reform
etc etc.

That was Rudd, Gillard and Swan. The people who pay your salary!

Shame Labor Shame!

Danny B says:

01:44pm | 28/01/11

I don’t know about the answer to that last question, but I suggest you direct your inquiry to Messers Windsor and Oakshott.

Luke says:

02:45pm | 28/01/11

Thankfully we had a Government that left a bunch of money for the incompetent Rudd/Gillard Government to inherit. Imagine the mess we would be in now if it wasn’t for the Howard Government who paid back Labors last debt they left behind.

Elphaba says:

10:15am | 28/01/11

An excellent point.

Further to that, I counted votes at the Federal election and there was a staggering amount of informal votes.  I want to know how many people that are bitching about the government of the day actually bothered to vote for someone - anyone.

The people of Australia had the chance to change this situation and they didn’t.  Some Punchers above have called for a new election - nope, too bad.  You f*cked it up, now you wait it out.  And think about voting next time even if they all shit you to tears.  It.  Could.  Be.  Worse.

St. Michael says:

10:37am | 28/01/11

It might be closer than a few years.  Gillard only holds power by two seats or so.  The pressure on the independents hasn’t been reported on yet.  There’s at least three or four nutcases on the crossbenches who could provoke a double dissolution.  For folks like Rob Oakeshott, turning on Labor at this point could be the best chance they’ve got of being elected again.  Windsor probably won’t turn, though, because he’s retiring next election anyway.

Anyone know what Bob Katter’s view on the levy is? He’s in an interesting wedge, I think - if he screams “no levy”, anyone inside his own Queensland electorate is going to crucify him.  If he screams “give us the levy”, anyone outside the electorate will do the same.

hot tub political machine says:

10:59am | 28/01/11

At voting time the Angel and Demon on my shoulder get replaced by a liberal MP and a Labour MP. Normally its easy to see which one is the devil and which the angel but lately its getting much harder.

See last year, I looked at the Labor MP and she was saying “Vote for me - you believe in social justice and human dignit” - I was about too but then I noticed she was actually doing exactly what a liberal MP normally does, she just seemed less practiced about it.

Aha, I said. I won’t be voting for you - you must be this elections devil. The choice is easy.

Then I turned around expecting to see the Liberal angel.,,,,

Instead it was some guy wearing an “F-off we’re full” shirt. I

didn’t have a clue how to vote

*Shaking my Head* says:

11:19am | 28/01/11

@ Elphaba.  You just breached your confidentiality and the political neutral agreement you signed on your Offer of Employment with the AEC last August.  If I knew who you were and which Electorate you were employed in I would have no hesitation in calling the DRO and ‘dobbing’ you.
Which brings us to another point and the valid reason why I no longer work for Electoral bodies anymore.  I was frustrated by the incompetent and so called Polling staff who just make a mockery of the system.
There seriously needs to be an inquiry in to the inadequate training and employing ignorant people off the street to work in Polling Places.
It pi**es me off!

Zeta says:

11:33am | 28/01/11

@ HTPTM - The Labor Party pretends to have a social conscience, while the Liberal Party pretends it doesn’t. I don’t know which is more abhorrent. Ruddlard’s administration was defined by their grandstanding on human rights while at the same time running an immigration regime identical to Howard’s, Howard’s administration was defined by pretending to have a tough immigration regime while Amanda Vanstone secretly let in tens of thousands of refugees on compassionate grounds like a jolly round Schindler.

Both make me angry. That Labor could value political expediency so much more than their actual Labour values they’d stoop that low, or that the Liberal Party panders to the most grotesque elements of the Australian body politic through their rhetoric while actually holding a more sincere love of human rights and dignity than Labor have since the Whitlam era.

I don’t expect them to be honest with us, it’s politics. But I at least expect them to be honest with themselves.

Elphaba says:

11:50am | 28/01/11

@*Shaking my Head*

I think the key line is this:

“If I knew who you were and which Electorate you were employed in I would have no hesitation in calling the DRO and ‘dobbing’ you.”

Anonymous forum.  I’m not spruiking a political party.  I’m not telling people who to vote for.  I don’t mind which people know who I voted for on here because it is an ANONYMOUS FORUM.  I made a post about people who don’t vote.  When I work in polling I am professional, courteous and non-partisan.

Hot under the collar, much?  It amuses me that every time you go to vote now, you’ll be saying “Is that Elphaba?  Is THAT Elphaba?”

Calm down.  Dibber-dobbers wear nappies.

hot tub political machine says:

01:47pm | 28/01/11

@Zeta

I think that’s a brilliant summary of both parties. Really don’t know if I can bring myself to do anything but the informal at the next election.

I abominate the current state of Aus politics.

Elphaba says:

02:35pm | 28/01/11

@HTPM - informal voting makes you a part of the problem, not the solution.

Gavin says:

10:19am | 28/01/11

Good point Warren! The amount of money we blow on the pokies could rebuild Queensland with ease! You’re never going to hit it big (Pokies have a 10G limit after all!).

Dash says:

04:26pm | 28/01/11

At least with gambling there’s a chance of getting something of value back! Give my taxes to this pack of numpties and it gets pissed away fixing an insulatuion mess or handed out to Labor backed builders! I’d prefer to put my taxes on red than let this socialist pack of idiots have it.

The point is, the ALP has wasted our taxes and is now asking for more from the people who have already given them the most! It’s not about helping out or being affordable.

Richard says:

10:49am | 28/01/11

Well I for one think the flood levy is the lesser of 2 evils. Budgets deficits don’t come free you know, we all pay for it in the form of inflation, the silent and most insidious tax of them all, which erodes our savings and impacts the spending power of the poorest the most.

No, we need to balance the budget, and Gillard is to be commended for making a hard choice in trying to do so. Its just that this is the first time she’s done it, and I doubt she’ll ever do it again!

Dieter Moeckel says:

10:53am | 28/01/11

Get real Ryan, these conspiracy theories are trite. The NBN is essential national infrastructure - more important than roads. I might concede that the budget surplus is political especially that if it failed the opposition would crawl all over the government with cries of economic irresponsibility.
Whenever there is a call of “Them and Us” I imagine people really believe that taxes are divided out between the members of parliament not used to advance the living conditions of all Australians.

Ryan says:

12:58pm | 28/01/11

@Dieter Moeckel: so what you are saying is that Gillard cares more about herself and getting re-elect in the next election than helping out the people of Queensland.. hmm interesting, I am quite sure that was the point I was trying to make.

Aitch B says:

11:23am | 28/01/11

What????

Do you have any idea how much road rehabilitation costs?

Depending on the nature of the damage it can cost $1 million plus (in the case of a major works) per kilometre to rehabilitate a road - and that’s just for your basic two lane country road!!

Tell you what….. you go first!

Michael D says:

01:12pm | 28/01/11

Well I feel the people in your area are pathetic. Because you have to pay between $50 and say $250 in one year, your going to go and rip off $2800 you dont need??!! Childish reckoning there! Great Aussie spirit you are showing. Im embarrassed to be a Aussie some days.

Rachel says:

08:14pm | 28/01/11

Perhaps I didn’t make myself clear Michael. I was complaining a) about the people where I live doing this - I think it’s terrible b) about a system that is so poorly designed it seems to encourage such behaviour.

LeonT says:

12:40pm | 28/01/11

It took the sale of Telstra to create a surplus.

Fixed.

JT says:

12:13pm | 28/01/11

With every word you write here Jade you prove you have no idea about economics, for instance the Keynesian theory of govt. spending to get out of a recession DOES NOT WORK. Feel free to ask Japan if you like - a very pertinent example today considering what just happened to that country.

Labors theory of economic management is akin to filling a cup of water from the deep end of the pool and pouring it in the shallow end.

Ryder says:

12:30pm | 28/01/11

Stop talking sense.

Zeta says:

11:25am | 28/01/11

To say nothing of those of us who are lactose intolerant. My cup of coffee doesn’t go as far as those of you disgusting cow juice suckers. I get levied thirty to fifty cents extra each time I want a coffee and it’s wrong.

The dairy industry gets a metric shit tonne of subsidies to keep the price of milk low so Today Tonight doesn’t run stories about the increasing cost of a carton of milk. What about soy milk? Where’s the subsidy for my almond milk?

If you don’t have any kind of milk in your coffee at all, you can stretch that even further. I can get a ristretto at my cafe for $2. And what if you’ve got a Nespresso machine? That’s 70 cents per cup in the privacy of your own home. Try crunching the numbers on that!

bella starkey says:

12:44pm | 28/01/11

None of these calculations take into account whether you get the 8th or 10th cup free.

expresso says:

03:29pm | 28/01/11

the legislation has a sunset clause of 1 year (do you understand what a sunset clause is?) so your numbers are useless.
$55k - $50 or 15 cups of coffee. blah blah blah the rest.

MarK says:

03:43pm | 28/01/11

“What about soy milk? Where’s the subsidy for my almond milk?”

Shut up hippy

Robin says:

12:40pm | 28/01/11

We are in the lowest third? If that is true then that perhaps is the reason why Australia is so wealthy. The more you tax the poorer you become. Cut taxes now and everyone becomes wealthier

Hansy says:

11:59am | 28/01/11

Totally agree Rev.

Building on floodplains should never have been approved.

This time around they should get it right. Bulldoze flood damaged properties and stop building approvals in flood prone areas. Rezone the land and give away free land away to those people affected. Sounds harsh but unless the cycle is broken it will happen again and again and again.

All QLD governments and local Brisbane councils since 1974 have a lot to answer for.

Stuff-up after stuff-up says:

01:28pm | 28/01/11

Why isn’t the public asking who killed off the Brisbane River Flood Study?  It has been suggested that the damage would have been far less had not the Labor mismanagement tribe not kept that report from the publicuntil it was properly uncovered in 2004.
Bad, bad planning.
Dare I say it:  LABOR AGAIN. (And again, and again, and again…)

Laura says:

02:25pm | 28/01/11

I don’t think anyone is against taxpayers money going towards rebuilding QLD, I know I’m not, more the fact that the government should have already HAD this money.

Do you not find it just a little enraging and disconcerting that our government is so unprepared for this kind of disaster, that the only way to pay for the damage is to gouge us for more money?

Pink batts, school halls & stimulus cash are three examples I can think of where the government has pissed our money up against a wall, with no explanation or accountability to us, the taxpayers.

Enough is enough.

Jess says:

12:46am | 29/01/11

Exactly. A coffee in Freo hasn’t been $3.50 for a few years now.

Dash says:

01:11pm | 28/01/11

Ha ha ha. Love it. But that would be unconstitutional Robin!

Oh does that mean we would have to put up with Rex Connor, Al Grazby and Jim Cairns again? I never thought we’d see the likes of them again, but I think these pelicans are worse!

Laura says:

02:16pm | 28/01/11

Sounds good fred. Never gonna happen though, consider your money gone.

Dash says:

01:01pm | 28/01/11

Ah, think you mean Shame Gillard Shame! It’s her tax not Tony’s. If the ALP didn’t screw up the insulation scheme, they’d have the money!

Profits tax, flood tax, carbon tax, ALP = tax tax tax.

What kind of fool defends waste and incompetence? Perhaps a fool on the ALP payroll?

paul h says:

09:03pm | 28/01/11

Alll spent on putting a new digital tv in every home on the excuse that it would put money into the economy to fix the global eltdown. More like providing labor dole bludging bogans with something to do at home instead of working

doubting thomas says:

12:41pm | 28/01/11

i agree, i noticed my rates and other bills with levys for ambulance and fire….etc , can’t those items bee diverted for this flood event ????

paul h says:

09:12pm | 28/01/11

This is an old labor bogan spin trick. When everyone is against you you just say that both sides are as bad as each other thus hoping people will be too apathetic to kick the labour green fruiy-loopy wackky coalition of goons out
This tactic is currently being flogged for all its worth (less) in the NSW papers by Christine baby in the hopes of avoiding total annihalation at the coming state election

Laura says:

02:09pm | 28/01/11

Here here. Oppurtunistic little grub he is. I actually used to have a small amount of respect for Bob Brown, not anymore.

He also blamed the coal industry for the drought a few years back.

Elphaba says:

02:51pm | 28/01/11

@Zac, what does atheism have to do with Bob Brown being an incompetent twat?

Zac says:

05:41pm | 28/01/11

Elphaba,

Atheism - “Atheism is the natural and inseparable part of Communism.” (Vladimir I. Lenin), “Our program necessarily includes the propaganda of atheism.” (V.I. Lenin) - the ideology that propelled Communists to do what they did well - destruction of millions of men, women and children and countries. The only difference today is the reds have changed their colour to Green and they hide behind many issues like environment, global warming, PETA, Feminism etc.

Greens - Bob Brown - are still in that Communist utopia. For them their utopia comes way ahead of people and societies. For Greens the destruction in QLD is golden opportunity to enforce their beliefs on the wider population. They wouldn’t mind doing at the cost of destroying the lively hood of coal miners and their lovely families. Did he stop and think many coal miners may have lost families in the flood? Why would he. These guys are no different from the JIHADISTS.

Alex says:

05:55pm | 28/01/11

Did the industry cause the even bigger floods back in 1974 when it was only shipping one third as much coal as it is today? Did it cause the even bigger flood in the 1800’s? Or the massive one which happened before John Oxley landed at North Quay (he noted the presence of dry grass at the tops of the very tallest of the gum trees there)? Bob Brown’s comments were opportunistic and without basis in fact.

Elphaba says:

07:47pm | 28/01/11

Wow Zac.  Seriously.  Tinfoil hat when watching TV?

I hardly see how atheism has anything to do with him being an uninformed prick, or more to the point, how all atheists are secret commies, but then again, atheist bashing is EXACTLY what I would expect from a militant nutbag Christian who gives humble, sane Christians a bad name.

Jimmy says:

01:06pm | 28/01/11

...and $8/week is not a lot by anyone’s standards. Can’t you be thankful that you and your 2 kids under 2 haven’t been living in a shelter while you watch your house go under water (while your mortgage continues to beckon undaunted).

phil says:

01:17pm | 28/01/11

Yes because those people on 60k dont have kids or a mortgage either do they.
I hear that there is a 100k minimum before you are allowed those ..

Tony says:

01:28pm | 28/01/11

Whilst I have the greatest sympathy for those affected I make the following three points:
1) I am not the one who chose to live on a flood plain.
2) I am not the one who failed to take out flood insurance (I have flood insurance).
3) $8 a week is over $400 a year which would have paid half my car insurance or any other number of bills for my family. I go to work to support MY family not to support those earning under $60k per year.

Of course itshould be a sliding tax scale based on income but my point is that 2x income for 8x tax is not fair. If someone on $60K pays $1 per week then someone on $120k should pay $2 per week not $8 per week - anyone who disagrees is suffering tall poppy syndrome.

TheDishpan says:

02:58pm | 28/01/11

The reason is pretty simple: it’s because in real terms $1 probably means more to a household on $60K than $8 does to a household on $120K.

Money’s money, you might argue. And to a point this might be true, but in discussing who should pick-up the majority of the tab for ‘common benefit’, it’s all got to do with disposable income. The smaller a person’s disposable income, the less they can tolerate an increase in taxation. The larger a person’s disposable income, the more they can tolerate an increase in taxation.

This is why we don’t tax everyone at the same rate. It’s not equitable.

Assume that it costs a certain amount to run a country. It’s always going to cost at least that amount, and you have to raise it from somewhere. Now assume you’ve been raising that money according to a progressive taxation scale (the more you earn, the more tax you pay). If you want to introduce a flat tax, you still have to raise the same amount of money to run the country. So to raise the money, you’ll have to raise taxes at the bottom end of the scale (impacting upon those who least can afford it, which in turn pushes more people into income brackets that require the support of the state, requiring more money), and lower taxes at the top end of the scale. The only group that benefits from a flat taxation system are rich people.

Now, it’s fundamentally unfair to charge poor people the same amount as rich people for the services of the state. Why? Because even in the modern welfare state, the rich benefit inordinately more from the services of the state than do the poor. If you look at the utility value of the army, the police, the judiciary and the parliament to the citizens of a state, you’ll find that the value not the same for every person. Generally, the utility value of all of these things is higher for higher income earners. Take the army for example. The role of the army is, basically, to defend public and private property from invasion by the actors of other states. Rich people own more property than poor people, so the utility value of the service provided by the army is higher for high income earners. Similarly the rich access the justice system more frequently than do the poor: the bulk of matters dealt with by the system have to do with the facilitation of, and the resolution of disputes relating to, transactions of private property. Since the rich own more than the poor, it’s only fair that they pay more for the service. Even the welfare system is designed to benefit rich people by trying to ensure that the poor don’t have to resort to thieving in order to survive.

In fact, even government waste benefits the rich more than it is of detriment to the to the poor. Take the Australian’s version of the BER. If the Government paid to much for services, chances are that money was ultimately pocketed by someone on the right-hand side of the income distribution curve.

 

In any case, we’re all getting very excited over some very small amounts. Let’s remember that, in the context of the proposed levy, if you earn $55,000 you will only pay the levy on $5,000 (or $25). If you earn $120,000 you will pay 1% on $70,000 (or $700).

paul h says:

09:21pm | 28/01/11

Mate
Who sold the commonwealth bank mate. Grow up yerself and get yer fax right!

Tom says:

02:14pm | 28/01/11

Yet another STUPID comment, from a halfwit who doesn’t know how to think for himself!    Stop repeating the tripe and garbage fed to you by idiots such as Alan Jones!!!!!

Zac says:

05:17pm | 28/01/11

Tom,

I may have listened to sharp tongued Alan Jones once or twice in life. Just because you froth it is tripe and garbage will not make it so, can you substantiate your claims? Does he expose your favorite ideology. That’s quite sad. But were you thinking for yourself when you called me names like halfwit?

Tom says:

04:33pm | 01/02/11

Oh, absolutely I was.  And, because it is ME who concluded that you are a halfwit, I decided to tell you.  Simply because I listen to HALFWIT right-wing idiots like you all day, repeating the same rhetoric and tripe you hear from the Jones’ and Akerman’s and Bolt’s…..    John Howard’s Surplus was used to introduce spending for infrastructure.  Something Howard’s regime neglected for 12yrs and left in a state of disgrace.  Even I could have given you a surplus, selling off all our national assets, and not spending a single dime!!!!!    Therefore - HALFWIT!

Your name:Mark says:

02:35pm | 28/01/11

Chunga, if you read the comments most have no problem paying the levy. The issue is how it will be spent. Even the most die hard true believer would admit cost effective management has not been this governments strong suit. Julia does not even know which minister will be responsible for managing the allocation of the funds raised. Its hard enough to see taxes wasted on the BER, DER, green loans, insulation etc. But to see a special levy wasted in the same way would really hurts.

Big T says:

01:32pm | 28/01/11

Not my problem - buy flood insurance or don’t live there! This socialist mantra that the middle class must pay everyones way is outrageous

Higginsworth says:

01:36pm | 28/01/11

“unprecendented natural disaster”

Actually the flood in 1974 was larger so please explain how this is unprecendented? It is a failure of successive governments infrastructure and housing planning and a failure of the Labor government to save money instead of spending it all. I go to work to earn money for me not to support you.

MarK says:

01:39pm | 28/01/11

“from an unprecedented natural disaster”

The precedent for large floods in Brisbane and south east Qld are widely known. Stop trying to pass on mistruths.

“Of course the only people whinging are those who haven’t had to tear the guts out of their home and throw it out on the street.”

No you are wrong.

In any case this tax is for infrastructure.

Thanks for trying though.

BR says:

01:39pm | 28/01/11

Could it be that those people who have “...had to tear the guts out of their home and throw it out on the street.” aren’t complaining because they don’t have to pay a dime for the reconstruction of core infrastructure for their own state?

against the Man says:

01:51pm | 28/01/11

I can’t believe the Punch moderators let this one get through. Even I’m not condoning such action.

Kika says:

02:58pm | 28/01/11

Tory - John W Booth assassinated Abraham Lincoln. He’s talking about assassinating the PM.

Dash says:

04:34pm | 28/01/11

Yeah, even I thought this was taking things too far!

Stewart Henstock says:

02:12pm | 28/01/11

Do yourself a favour…forget the “poofter mobile” and buy Australian.

Another Laura says:

02:00pm | 28/01/11

I think a lot of what people are so cranky about is where did our country’s money go?
It’s not so much paying an extra $6 a week, it’s more WHY doesn’t our government have measures in place to protect us from having to pay more tax in the event of a natural disaster?
Where’s the piggy bank? We leave the government in charge of our money & trust that they will spend it wisely, and plan for this kind of thing. Not just go out on a whim and decide to lump the middle class with a tax!
Why couldn’t Gillard withdraw foreign aid to help her own? Then talk about bringing in a flood levy.

Tom says:

02:09pm | 28/01/11

Well Said.  But, to answer your question as to WHY most people have done nothing but complain about the levy is simple.  They can’t think for themselves and will do what morons like Alan Jones, or Piers Akerman tell them to do.  Now, it is important to understand that they are paid by the National-Liberal-Country Party Coalition, as propaganda spokesmen.  Therefore, EVERYTHING that they come up with is anti-Government Tripe!!!!!

Hansy says:

02:11pm | 28/01/11

No Laura I think you are missing the point.

Building should never have occured on floodplains/next to rivers to begin with. Whats the point of rebuilding if its only going to get flooded again in 10-20 years down the track. Our kids will have to foot another massive tax bill yet again for wealthy Brisbanites obsessed with living next to rivers with their private jetties. Flash flooding can happen anywhere but building a house on a river known to flood in the past is just plain stupid.

Its not necessarily the amount paid but the method by which the money is being extracted from so few. 5.1 million taxpayers pay nothing, 4.8 million taxpayers get squeezed dry for everyone. It should be one in, all in.

This government has blown billions in useless projects/schemes and now claim they can’t cut anymore fat from the annual budget…lies. Watch the money for flood rebuilding get blown on overpriced tradies and useless infrastructure.

This levy is political move by the Gillard government to win votes in QLD as they got so badly thrashed in QLD at the last federal election.

Rossco says:

02:17pm | 28/01/11

Laura, your right we are not a bunch of whingers BUT we hate getting hijacked, this is a capital raisng venture and political in nature, most of us, ME included have donated a fair lump of annual wage as a “gift” to the people of Queensland, and will do it again if required, but to be taxed as well?, not a chance!. By the way, read every post in the comments and see how many people including pollies and Queenslanders have spared a thought for all the flood victims in Victoria, it may not have been as devastating, but, it is all relevant when you have no where to live, no belongings and no hoardes of voulenteers.
IF IT IS A NATIONAL TAX THEN SHARE IT AROUND THE VICTIMS INTERSTATE AS WELL!, think that will happen, then pigs will fly tonight.

Maree says:

02:21pm | 28/01/11

Well said, Laura!

Tony says:

02:27pm | 28/01/11

@ Tom - you must enjoy being bled dry by taxes? Or let me guess your a doll bludger?

Cyn says:

07:56am | 29/01/11

No, we’re not a nation of whingers. We’re a nation of fed-up to the back teeth, pissed off, over-taxed hard workers who are about to see more of our money taken out of our pockets and see no explanation as to where it’s actually going.

It’s not about the amount of MONEY. At least LISTEN to your fellow Australians before criticizing them.

Maree says:

02:19pm | 28/01/11

Actually, a very good, balanced article, thank you.  When we see the actual “damage” which will be done to people’s pay packets, it is quite shameful to see the whinging which goes on, after being praised the world over for our sterling generosity in this crisis.
  I would be one to bet that it is the ones who have given the most who accept the tax with good grace and vice-versa. Come up to QLD and meet the poor people who have lost everything before you whinge from your high and dry home. You also need safe roads and other infrastructure for your holiday in Queensland!  What are our “needs”, actually, in this country of ours? A second car? New upgrades to computer? Young people spent hundreds on their Big Day Out in Sydney. The truly struggling will not be taxed.                                                                           
    GOD BLESS the good young professional woman in Melbourne,  who, when asked if she minded being taxed, replied, “Whatever will help Queensland I’m willing to do..”

Higginsworth says:

02:48pm | 28/01/11

@ Maree - the young proffessional woman sounds like a sheep. bleet bleet bleet - “won’t anyone think fo the children”. emotional hysteria has no place in an economic problem.

meinsydney says:

04:12pm | 28/01/11

Not to mention that anyone can see that with the way technology is moving, by the time the NBN is completed, we will be behind the times anyhow.  I have not yet heard one good reason for building the NBN.  A total waste of money, that should be going to re-building the infrastructure and ensuring better health care. 
I thought I lived in a democracy…now we have a PM that is leading our country because she bribed a bunch of independents to get there.  My local hospital desperately needs funding, as do many others, but the money meant for my local hospital went to paying a bribe for this woman to take the job of PM.  PLEASE PLEASE - vote of no confidence - new election!  PM’s should not be allowed to buy their positions with taxpayer money.  Is that why we really need to pay this new tax?  Cause Julia used all the other money I gave her to buy her way into power?

paul h says:

09:32pm | 28/01/11

The only reason they want fast broad band is so they can download their porn movies faster…. No wait… that cant be it… Conway is going to censor the internett. Watch what happens to forums like this one that dares to criticise the socialst goons then. LOL!

michelle says:

03:22pm | 28/01/11

I agree the ALP did a good job without much pereperation
we forget we are the only economy in the first world to survive the GFC- it didn’t happen because of some miracle, it was the things the government did to stimulate the economy saved us, we were looking down the barrel of 1 million people out of work - 10% unemployment and the stimulus and reduction in interest rates injected money into the economy - particularly into retail, building works employed people. Our next door neighbours NZ had 4% unemployment at the end 2008 they peaked at 8.7% unemployment early in2010. They had a similar economy the only difference is they didn’t stimulate the economy.  Secondly if people abused the system why get angry at the government - get angry at the people who ripped off the system. If soembody rips off centrelink do we get angry at the government for offering social security- no we get angry at the fraudster- get angry then at the tradespeople who ripped the system off- or the idiots who let some fly by night person should put insulation in your roof because it was free. If somebody offers to do your electrical work or plumbing for free but has no licence - do you let him. We have all received at least $2000 in tax custs in the last 5 years this is such a small amount to pay

paul h says:

09:36pm | 28/01/11

greenies (Watermelons) kep labour in power… greenies hate dams
ERGO.. no new dams built for the last twenty years.

Kika says:

02:48pm | 28/01/11

I am middle class and don’t receive a single cent of middle class welfare. I don’t have kids, don’t have dependants and cannot claim much off my deductions. Where’s my welfare!

meinsydney says:

05:33pm | 28/01/11

I don’t see it that way Stewart.  Governments have been buying votes of all classes via ridiculous handouts.  Baby bonuses are going to the rich, the poor and those in between. 
I believe the reason we need a levy is because Labor doesn’t have the guts to get rid of the ridiculous baby bonus, and used our hard earned money to bribe a few independents to get into government.  So now she wants more.  All the money earmarked for Sydney hospitals is now gone because Julia thought it was ok to bribe her way into the position of PM.  That’s not supposed to be how a democracy works.

Higginsworth says:

02:46pm | 28/01/11

Your talking about socialism. Australia is a free country and a free market. People give out of their own genorosity. Who are you to tell someone they can’t have a home theatre?

RotHayek says:

06:50pm | 28/01/11

Incorrect Higginsworth, Australia does not embody a free market. At best we have a ‘mixed market’. How can one be half-free you ask? (half-pregnant anyone?)

The answer is precisely.

A little birdy says:

04:33pm | 28/01/11

So the rumours that the electrol commission are clearing the decks for a september / november election have some legitimacy?

John W Booth says:

03:48pm | 28/01/11

But you are ‘rich’ so you must pay you capitalist pig!

Welcome to the sick Socialist world of Gillard and her stooges.

Daryl says:

05:00pm | 28/01/11

@shopgirl, This is the way our tax system works in this country. Take it another step. If you own a Company you are able to split your income with your spose. So you set your wife up as a director and pay her half of what you plan to take out of the company. Therefore, whilst the PAYG taxpayer gets to pay tax on 180,000, the guy with the family business splits it 50/50 with the wife and pays heaps less tax. The PAYG taxpayer may support three kids and a spouse but cannot split his income.

Then consider the corporate does cash in hand jobs. Doesn’t run this through the company and just pays zero tax. Makes sure he does this enough so that the company also pays zero tax and the individual incomes are low enough to gain access to benefits. RORT! And I see it all the time. I know a builder who furnished his mothers whole house and claimed it as a business expense! Who hasn’t had a tradie do a cash job?

Then consider, the corporate wants a family car so runs that through the business (claiming business purpose of course) as well. Claims back the GST on any personal expenses he puts through the business (say a computer, office expenses, phone fax, cable).

The corporate tax rate is 30%. The top marginal tax rate is 46.5% plus 1.5% medicare and soon 1% flood levy.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but the tax system in this country is a joke. The PAYG taxpayer cops it in the neck time and time again.

Corporates don’t pay this levy! PAYG taxpayer does.

When will a government come along with the balls to put a stop to this nonsense? Increase the GST, you cannot avoid consumption. Eliminate the GST exemptions. And seriously slash the PAYG tax rates. At least cap effective PAYG tax rates to the corporate rate.

What the fuck happened to ROOT and BRANCH TAX REFORM???

Shane From Melbourne says:

06:16pm | 28/01/11

@Daryl- A better reform of tax would be a withdrawal tax of 10% from bank accounts.

All tax avoiders and tax cheats are enemies of the state and must be crushed without mercy…..

No More Crap says:

04:46pm | 28/01/11

forget the 1974 floods, in 2000 and again in 2003 Queensland Government was warned by Hydrologists and Dam managers that something needed to be done and quick.Long range weather forecasters said this was going to happen.
Beattie choose the cheapest least effective solution and now we are all paying the price.
Ineffective ego driven wasteful governments always dump the blame on someone else and do nothing.

Saskia says:

04:17pm | 28/01/11

So when you are in the clear minority its rigged?

Too bad. 99% of people here are just middle class drones sick of being used as a cash cow by a Socialist PM when she runs out of money.

John Smythe says:

07:07pm | 28/01/11

It clearly stated that the poll was of 4400 people. Not 90% of the entire population.

News.com.au likes to use 90% of Australians in its titles, but only surveys barely 2500. Kochie was upfront about how many were polled.

steve says:

07:35pm | 28/01/11

Shame on him for politicising a disaster recovery, right after doing it to a maritime disaster. Is there no depth the liberals will sink to?

Against the Man says:

04:56pm | 28/01/11

At the pub today someone stated that he voted for Gillard/ALP because he believed she would be maternal and caring in her approach of governing and looking after all Australians. However this poor soul has been surprised at how cold, plastic, self serving and lazy she has been in her approach to ‘trying’ to solve the problems this country has.

I agreed with the guy and I truly believe the tide is turning in a massive backlash against Gillard and Labor. Don’t be surprised if we have an election soon.

The Independents must be shiting in their pantss right now, knowing Australia is holding them very responsible for the current government and their ineffectiveness. Remember Okie and Windsor you have to live in this country and face people so do the right thing, right now!

Angela says:

05:16pm | 28/01/11

GO GREG! YES..you are soooo right! They have already done it over and over again….de jevu..

BobM says:

08:41pm | 28/01/11

Here’s how many…...

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/thousands-escape-paying-flood-levy/story-e6freon6-1225995781522

Alex says:

06:02pm | 28/01/11

Agreed that we should not be rebuilding on a known flood plain. That is just plain stupid. If the levy is to be gathered, then it should be used for more permanent solutions - such as assisting people to relocate to higher ground and turning those flood zones into public land or small to medium sized market gardens (flood plains typically have fertile soils). In some areas it might be possible to build levee banks. In any case, we should just be rebuilding stuff which is just going to be lost again in 20-30 years.

john says:

06:29pm | 28/01/11

@nossy

I wonder if you think it will as funny when the carbon tax, and mining taxes, and some other taxes in the pipeline from your dear leader increase your cost of living by $50-$100 a week?

MWAHH MWAHHH MWAHHHHH AHHAHAH

nossy says:

06:52pm | 28/01/11

@John - geez johnny I would see a doctor asap and get that laugh looked at fella - or were you choking on a plum ?  hahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

john says:

07:28pm | 28/01/11

@nossy

In case you didn’t notice I was laughing at a fool.

meinsydney says:

05:53pm | 28/01/11

Yep….I felt so proud to be an Aussie when I saw how much money people had donated….I think that is the last time we will see that in a long time.  She can spin it any way she wants to…imo, we are paying this levy because she used our tax dollars to bribe her way into government.  All our tax dollars that should have gone to improving hospitals throughout the country was given to a few greedy independents.  Now she wants us to pay for her bribe.  She’s a nightmare and has to go.  And I think we need legislation ensuring no wannabe PM is allowed to use our tax dollars to bribe their way into Govt again.

Mik says:

06:25pm | 28/01/11

The tax is for fixing the potholes, sewerage plants and other public works. Most of us didn’t donate to fix potholes so the “recipients” are different.
But what appears to be fueling this anger is a. the PM’s behaviour as there is an appearance of not really caring (somewhat like someone with burnout?), b. The fact that so much money on other projects has been wasted and no one has accepted the blame and noone in responsibility seems to care c. imposing taxes at this time when we are already being told about other huge expenses is making people feel the gov. doesn’t care.