Australia’s schooling future is private

Nanna from Vyle Bay says:

12:39pm | 06/03/11

The future of school education is optional schooling..

Nanna from Vyle Bay says:

12:42pm | 06/03/11

public school students don’t need private schools.
public school children don’t need to be forced into private school education.
nobody learns anything from private schools.

Economist says:

12:51pm | 06/03/11

Geez you’re going to cop it for this one Punchies. Despite the tongue in cheek nature of the article, there is an element of truth in that there is a perception that some non-government schools are elitist but they’re diverse enough for their supporters to find examples of underfunding, just as there are some public schools with plenty of money. 

Really the argument should be about tailoring to meet the needs of students.

AW says:

01:09pm | 06/03/11

I fully intend to send my child to private Catholic school b/c of the teachers, the facilities, the opportunities and everything else you mentioned. But WHY does the govt need to give additional funding to private schools?! Shouldn’t they be giving more to public schools so they too can offer the same quality of teaching and facilities and opportunities that private schools get? Or do you mean give them more money so that the private option is cheaper for the every day Australian family? I think parents need to make the decision to make their child’s education a priority. I’m sure a lot of average Aussies could find the extra money for school if they thought it was important enough.

Santiago says:

01:22pm | 06/03/11

The government has an obligation to fund quality public schooling. By the very nature of private (non government) schooling, the obligation should be lessened. 

It’s all well and good for parents to argue that they chose private schooling, and good on them, if that’s what they want. But what about the parents who can’t afford private schools? Is it okay that their kids attend schools with far less resources?
If government schools were better resourced and funded, many parents would probably send their children there, rather than a private school. (Excluding parents who specifically want their child to receive a religious education, naturally).

The government is doing well on some things. Our school has gotten excellent new buildings from the BER… however what about disability funding? There are students with disabilities in mainstream classes because there is not enough government funding to send them to specially catered schools.

I understand that there will never be enough funding, and this is partially an issue of some parents accepting less parental responsibility (e.g. some parents will teach their kids to drive, some will argue it should be a school subject) and expecting schools can teach their children everything. 

And I’m not saying don’t give to private schools, because that’s not fair to parents who pay taxes and want to send their children to those schools. But funding should be either equally resourced, or ideally, favouring the government schools- because it’s the people who don’t have any other options that always tend to suffer…

If you can pay to upgrade your child to whatever school you want, fantastic. But let’s not make our public schools the bottom line.

phil says:

01:32pm | 06/03/11

This article is full of strawmen.  The author has resorted to divisive misrepresentations rather than addressing the strong arguments for private education; e.g. competition between different methods of education, greater freedom for parents to decide how they raise their children, greater freedom for teachers to decide where and how they work. 

Two points about the thin substance of this article:
- Why is it a bad thing to be concerned about your child’s peer group? Why should children be forced to stay in a school full of bad behaviour for the sake of ideology?
-Class and the commitment of parents to education probably explain these results far better than a simple public/private divide.

If you’re most concerned about academic results, try Kumon, or other similar tutoring. That’s where you really get value for money.

fairsfair says:

01:39pm | 06/03/11

Ms Hill Corrington Smyth, half way through this article I found I was subconsciously reading it with aplomb and throroughly enjoyed issues raised by same.

“Take Prime Minister Julia Gillard, for example. If she had a private school education and accent instead of that horrendously common nasal drawl and poor dress sense, we wouldn’t have a hung Parliament.”

I think this is true, but I also don’t think it wrong to believe that ones public projection of “self” does not matter. I am the product of public school and I worked hard while I was there. I have achieved no less than what I would have if I had gone to the best private school in my area. Have times changed, I don’t know, but I haven’t even been out of school for ten years yet so I think it is too early to comment either way. I might also add that FNQ factor aside, I don’t have a nasal drawl and bad dress sense - so could it be down to (shock horror!) a person’s individuality? Ms Gillards sister does not sound at all like her, so how do you put this down to her “education”?.

The govt should offer [some] funding to private schools due to the pressure they take off the public system. If every child in Australia was the product of public funded education we’d be struggling to pay a fraction of the bills. I don’t know figures however and would not agree if the govt kick in was close to the same or more than what they pump into publicly funded schools. If education is a basic “right” of all Australians - wealthier individuals have the right to contribute personal funds over and above in the hope that they are achieving more for their children.

If you can’t afford private education, well take more interest in your kid’s workload, help them, communicate with their teachers and encourage your kids to work hard. There are tertiary facilities out there that only look at marks and whether or not you have a nasal drawl and appauling dress sense is really of no consequence to them - your govt funded hecs/help agreement is still paying your bills and that is all they care about.

I am more concerned by the money wasted on things like the GG’s $800 a week florist habit. There is certainly enough money to go around, it is just being mismanaged.

Pot of Gold says:

01:39pm | 06/03/11

Tory
You look like a female leprechaun.
Are their female leprechauns?

We might as well privatise all schools, So that only those people that can afford to educate their children could get one. Of course this would require completely overturning a hundred years of legislation. That of course could only happen under a coalition government.

jf says:

01:46pm | 06/03/11

It is difficult to know where to respond to this article and what it is suggesting.
It is clearly having a tongue in cheek go at private schools. However, I am at a loss to understand why.
It appears to be the suggestion that Australian’s should have choice. The choice to either send our kids to private school or public school.
There was the fact that private schools invariably having better facilities and provide a greater range of opportunity for students – I’m sure that that is not a bad thing so I’ve missed the point there.
There was a comment that private school kids would have “better manners, better uniforms (and probably better breeding)”. On the first point, I’m sure that that has more to do with their home life than school. On the second, so what, if they went to public schools they’d still have better clothes as they would be able to spend all that money saved on school fees. And so what? As to breeding, perhaps in England circa 1950, but Australia 2011 – come on. You are just as likely to see a plumber drop his kids at a private school as an obstetrician. And in any case, a plumber is just as likely to have attended a private school and the obstetrician a public.
“It is naïve in the extreme to imagine potential employers and potential breeding partners do not judge young men and women on their accent and school history.”
Their accent? Really? Just a tad hysterical don’t you think. Both Julia Gillard and Malcolm Turnbull went to public schools and their presentation and “accents” are quite different.
“Being well spoken, polished in looks and voice, are fare more important than reaching arbitrary benchmarks in such esoteric areas as reading, writing and arithmetic.”
I wouldn’t say more important but success in life is not all about being school dux and attending Uni. Unless of course you want to be a union delegate or Labor Party politician. Or a sneering and morally superior writer. I am more concerned that my girls turn out to be well rounded, polite, confident, open-minded women. Not that I’m suggesting that his wouldn’t happen at public or private, just that school is about more than just academic benchmarks.
“Certainly she and many other Labor politicians (not to mention those uncouth unionists) would benefit greatly from studying Alexander Downer’s perfectly plummy voice.”
What about Gough Whitlam’s elegant and regal voice and bearing? In any case, whilst you are making your strawman arguments, it would be interesting to take a straw poll to see just how many Labor politicians attended private school v Coalition. I’m betting on the Coalition having a greater percentage having attended public school. 
“The other important advantage of independent school is that one is surrounded by a better breed of people. Any parent can tell you that a child’s peers have a large influence on their behaviour – their friends make them who they are.”
Your last point is well supported by all the academic research. Whether or not you believe that breeding in 2011 Australia has any impact on the quality of a person depends on just how much you believe that Australia in 2011 resembles 19th century England.
“ Sequestering the genders is excellent practice for the real-life divergence of men and women in the workplace, and no one has yet proven that a secular education delivers a more moral population than the fear of God can instil.”
There is plenty of academic research that supports your first point
And of course, the religion card.  Leaving alone that many (most) of the parents send their kids to private schools for reasons other than religion, leaving alone that the religious orders founded many of Australia’s first and most remote schools, no-one that I have ever spoken to believes that private religious schools are a moral imperative.
“I tell you which ‘hit list’ should be created – and that’s one that seeks to close down those schools that are hotbeds of indolence, poverty, and crime.”
Not one single person that I have ever heard or read on this issue suggests this. Don’t worry about chucking it into the argument though. It makes for a nice easy rebuttal with your next chardonnay. 
“Noel Pearson himself, who clearly represents the monolith that is Aboriginal culture, has argued that sending Aboriginal youth to the finest private schools is the best way forward.”
It’s hard to disagree with Noel Pearson on many points, particularly this one.
“It is time for the elite in society to recognise the need for equal opportunity, and that means convincing the Government that Australia’s future is private.”
No, Tory, Australia’s future is for a well educated public education system complimented by a private system funded by those prepared to pay for it with some support from the Government. Australia’s future is for education choice.

CH says:

01:52pm | 06/03/11

My parents are trying to convince my younger brother to attend Scotch College, an exclusive indepedent school for boys.  Currently, he is in yr 8 at Victoria’s best performing non-selective public school.  However, my parents are realising the benefits of a private school education.  As Smythe says, you are surrounded by “a better breed” of people.  The students have a better work ethic and are more confident since they are pretty much forced to participate in as many extra-curricular activities as possible e.g. inter-school sports, debating.  Every student strives for excellence, and such an atmosphere at school is a motivation for success. 
My parents put a heavier emphasis on my brother’s social development, and are not so worried about his marks any more (as long as he doesn’t fall below average).  At an exclusive private school, your social circle will probably turn out to be the state’s next batch of corporate leaders.  It’s a safety net for my brother to have these connections from such a young age.
Most importantly, my parents want him to become a cultivated young man, someone who may not have achieved perfect marks in high school, but is culturally refined in all aspects of life.

Jolanda says:

01:57pm | 06/03/11

The Government does fund Public schools well but the problem is that, like everything that is Government run, the majority of the money goes to the bureaucrats to sit in their ivory towers and cover up any complaints about the system that they run.  They don’t need any more money; ask them they say the public school is as good as the private, if not better. 

I had to pull children out of the public school system due to the neglect of their education as children with identified special educational needs.  When I complained my children were systematically targeted, bullied and victimised whilst everybody looked on.    This was some years ago but removing them wasn’t easy as we couldn’t afford non government schools at the time.    The stress and distress that it caused my children and family was extreme.  Nobody cared, in the Private system the difference is that people care when the school is failing one of their own.

Until the bureaucrats that are running the system are held to account for their failures and their bias and corruption then the public school system will continue to go backwards and money will continue to be spent on the wrong end.

Education – Keeping them Honest

Aunt says:

02:37pm | 06/03/11

I send my nephew (who lives with me full time) to private school. I want the very best for him, so I make the sacrifice. It’s not just about reading and writing, it’s about all those other choices which should be available in public schools but aren’t. Smaller classes with teachers being able to give greater focus on each student. Extra courses from a younger age. A strong focus on acceptable behaviour, both when in school and when not in school. Parents encouraged to take part in their child’s education and the school community. Good communication with parents, so they know what’s going on with their child.

I also think that having to pay larger fees makes parents value their child’s education more, so that they make sure that their child is doing their best, i.e., home work.

For me it’s not about elitism, it’s about making sure my child has every opportunity I can get for him now so he’ll have more options open to him as an adult.

I’m not rich, far, far from it, I’ve only been able to find part time work, so my income is only just above the basic pension and when there’s no work available we have to make do with just the pension. I don’t own a house or even have the low rent of government housing, I pay full private rent. Finding the money for private school fees is hard, very hard and I have to make a lot of sacrifices, but it’s worth it to me to see my nephew have the best education. I don’t want him to constantly struggle to find work and to make ends meet, like I do now. I want better for him than that, as all parents and carers should.

The only people for whom private school is out of reach are those who are too selfish to stop at the amount of children they can actually afford. And before anyone says it’s not selfish to have lots of kids, of course it is, if you can’t afford them. Each extra child you add beyond what you can afford not only enters a world in which their parents cannot afford to raise them, but they also take away opportunities from the child/children born before them who could’ve had more opportunities.

Zaf says:

02:56pm | 06/03/11

Hear hear!

Looking forward to the author’s taking the on the question: why oh WHY do we pay taxes?

Will says:

05:36pm | 06/03/11

I can only offer an opinion based on my own experiences in this debate. I am 21, Study Engineering at USYD. I didn’t come from any prestigious eastern suburbs priviate college, I came from a Rural public high school where over 40% of the students are in the lowest 25% Socio-economic bracket. At this school I experienced a fantastic cross section of Society from wealthy to poor, from chemistry kids to footy boys. I don’t believe sorting education into social class breeds the right sort of mindset. If the student has ambitions and has parents willing to support them, there is no reason they can not achieve this through a Public school.

Sure if you want a heated swimming pool for your childs school send them to an elitest Private School and pay extra, but I think it would be immoral for taxpayers dollars to put more of a worth on a rich kid than one whos schools roof is falling in because thats all his parents can afford.

It takes all sorts to build a nation, The Public system worked for me as it can for anyone willing to take the opportunity. As for better breeds?? some percieved upper class members of society are some of the most disgusting people i’ve ever met just as some strugglers have the biggest hearts and often an intelligence others wouldn’t give a chance too.

My argument… all kids deserve the same chance, i think a propper classroom for all is far more important than a complete gymnasium for already extremely benifited individuals. Private Schools funded privately, go ahead. Private schools funded Governmentally….what kind of message is that sending?

Dave C says:

06:15pm | 06/03/11

Well well well a nice sarcastic smart arsed piece of satire having a go at people who send their kids to private school, and of course we will say that all private schools are the same with the stereotype that they are all obscenely wealthy, funded by snobbish toffy nosed people from Mosman. Of course the low fee paying independent (mostly Christian based) schools oh no we will slader and smear them too, as for the Catholics well they are all infested with pedophile priests because David Marr said so didnt he?

What the author doesnt understand is the main reason why parents will send their kids to a Non Government school is that their kids will be safer and wont be either exposed to or go out with or be bullied by the offspring of criminals, drug users, 3rd generation welfare trash or kids who are so messed up that DoCs should have removed them long ago. (This applies to all races colours and creeds, also I am not talking about kids who are in the support unit, those poor kids need all the assistance they can get and its not their fault).

I work in a public high school in a non teaching support role (I am however a qualified teacher and did work as one for many years) and you see the public system take the ones John West reject. As a result any kid who is not in the top academic stream and wants to learn can be sure to have their lessons disrupted every day by lazy, rude, insolent, disrespectful over confident scum whos parents either dont care about their kids behavior (for reasons mentioned above) or the parents encourage it and take the attitude “no teacher tells my kid what to do”. These angels refuse to do anything they are told, swear at teachers, bully others, cause or engage in fights in the playground (due to comments made on facebook usually) and clog up all the senior executives time. They get warnings upon warnings, dont show to detention and eventually get what they want which is suspension so they can sit and home and do what they want or go out and roam the streets and harass the public knowing the police cant touch them either.

If you really think the public system is great go to school in Fairfield or Hoxton park where a kid was stabbed and another was bashed or on the North Coast where a kid was bashed and later died as a result.

Now if your good but not super smart kid gets through Year 10 having their learning disrupted and then they NEED a good HSC result to get into Uni then guess what? Due to the 17years leaving age they are stuck with the same disruptive disrespectful garbage in their classes as they try their best to grapple with much harder concepts than in Years 7-10.  Of course the kids competing for those scarce Uni places in the private system do not have that disadvantage do they?

But sure sure bag the private system and stereotype all private school parents as snobs from Mosman or Double Bay. Plus I am sure the author really knows what the public system is really like… well you do Tory dont you?

CJ says:

06:59pm | 06/03/11

Yeah, I get that it’s a facetious article. To address the issue in another way: imagine if they did actually withdraw funding to Catholic, other religious and independent schools. At the Catholic school where I work, 85% of funds come from one or other level of government, mostly federal, I believe. Without this money, the school would close. Fees would rise to extent that most parents could not afford them. They would take their kids to the nearest public high school, which would soon be overflowing. The question would soon arise: where do we get extra classrooms? Oh, hang on—the local Catholic school recently closed, so there are 80 rooms of all kinds up there. Good ones, too. We might have to lease the premises from the Catholic Church, but that’s cool—just take down the crucifixes and statues of Mary. And we need extra teachers, so we better recruit most of the newly-unemployed Catholic teachers. In fact, we may as well leave them where they are. Rename the place from St Pius High to, I dunno, Kevin Rudd High, and there’s your state takeover of education. All it takes is the stroke of a pen.

Ryan says:

09:10am | 07/03/11

“A private school child will not only have better manners, better uniforms (and probably better breeding) – they also have better opportunities in life. “
The fact is that regardless of the tongue in cheek nature of this article, that “manners maketh the man” (or woman) and that “better breeding” is reflected upon their manners simply. Manners are what define you and your class or lack thereof, the better opportunities in life follow because of the manners. You don’t need to attend private school to get this but keeping your kids away from the low class manner-less dropkicks during impressionable years does help.
I wonder whether there was a survey done with regards to later on in life, who pays the most amount of taxes (dollar for dollar) once leaving school?

Kika says:

12:20pm | 07/03/11

Why the heck should any private school receive any government funding at all? It’s rubbish! The money spent on private schools who collect handsome fees from the parents for send their kids there just to be able to put on the SUV’s their schools name on their bumper bars or plastered all over their back windows should be directed towards the state schools who need the money.

Even state schools collect fees (albeit cheaper ones) from students these days. My parents (both commies) refused to pay as they strongly believed that state schools are government schools and therefore all resources, material and whatever excuse they reckon the fees were used towards should be paid by the government - not them. If they were made to pay fees they would send me to a private school.

Naturally to my dismay the principal used to drag me into his office every year to explain the non payment. Don’t see how it’s my fault and how I was going to convince my parents to cough up the cash.