Are conservatives really just lacking courage?

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29 Dec 01:00pm

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128 comments

It’s long been accepted wisdom that many people get their political views from their parents and their peers.

Is this the brain of an economic rationalist? Illustration: Paul Newman

In my unscientific experience (conducting more vox pops than I care to remember) young voters who admitted to me they planned to vote Liberal in an election very often gave the justification “because that’s what my mum and dad are doing.” First time voters with a strong Greens or Labor bent were more likely to offer up their friends or the media they consumed as influencing their views.

But a British study out today suggests political views might be more nature over nurture.

According to scientists at the University College London, who scanned the brains of two MPs and 90 students:

People with conservative views have brains with larger amygdalas, almond-shaped areas in the centre of the brain often associated with anxiety and emotions ... They also have smaller anterior cingulate, an area at the front of the brain associated with courage and looking on the bright side of life, than those from the opposite end of the political spectrum.

I’m not buying it.

While there’s no doubt the people who comment on The Punch are generally pretty wedded to their political positions, too many others tend to swing in the breeze depending on the issue.

I’ve got friends who’ve changed from right-wing teenagers to bleeding-heart 30-somethings, sometimes depending on the relationships they’re in.

Others have turned into rabid conservatives the moment they became parents, and some who like to think they’re lefties but are actually incredibly intolerant of the needs of others.

There are people who never shut up about asylum-seekers but also think paying tax on their hard-earned is a breach of their own human rights.

And how do you explain the social agrarian protectionists otherwise known as the Nationals?

I’d love to see how the brain scans of all these groups fit in to the neat structures of science.

If it were as simple measuring amygdalas polling companies (and maybe political commentators) would be out of work.

Where did your views come from? Do you vote the same way as your parents?

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414Australia, you have nothing to fear but fear itself

353"Gifting", "journey" and other words we hate

309Thomson didn't answer the question everyone is asking

255Who murdered the Arts degree?

246A big day for Thomson, who thus far is guilty of nothing...

231Craig Thomson speaks. Meanwhile, in Australia...

230South Australia. It's the middle bottom bit.

224The most laughable, err, spoof since Einfeld

128 comments

Show oldest | newest first

- fairsfair says:
  
  12:32pm | 29/12/10
  
  My parents are not political in the slightest. To use my father’s own words, the only thing he has ever voted for was ten o’clock closure. My mother votes because she accidentally put herself back on the electoral role when we moved house in 1992. Dad still taunts her for it at every election. My brother does not vote and my sister voted green in the last election. She pre-polled because she was up here on holidays on election weekend and after we had a genuine discussion on politics she agreed that she was ignorant and lazy and just voted green because they appeared the best on the ads and did not want to think about it. I too was like that until Kevin07 rocked my world. All this does not stop their strong opinions on everything however. The males in my family try to discuss politics, but I don’t believe that they really have a right to do so - they don’t vote. They use the “its not my fault, I didn’t vote for them” card everytime something happens. All that prompts one to do is conservatively seek to kick them in the nuts. I don’t think my brother and sister even fully understand the distinction between the left and the right.
  
  That quote is really interesting Tors. I am not buying it either. I would say I am centre right, so I guess that by definition makes me “conservative” and I would agree that I am quite emotional, anxious about the future and a pessimist. So I fit in with that definition, but I think it also applies to the lefties - they are exactly the same, they just use different words.
  
  Rob Oakshott defines himself as an economic conservative and a social progressive (I think I read that on wikipedia?). I don’t think this is possible, but in the perfect world, this is really what we all want to be. In reality I have made up my own mind to be conservative.
  
  I am really looking forward to other people’s comments.
  
  Reply
acotrel says:

06:00am | 30/12/10

Perhaps the amygdala is the part of the brain which gives mental the flexibility to accept scams and cheating in the cause of supporting an ideology? And the anterior cingulate is the bit where the social conscience lives?
- Green Goblin says:
  
  12:34pm | 29/12/10
  
  I agree Tory, I’m not buying it. My political views come from my life experiences, certainly not from my parents, not from my amygdala or anterior cingulate. I’m on prescription drugs for anxiety, I wear my heart on my sleeve, I fear nothing and I love Monty Python…So why do I have the absolute opposite political views of a ‘conservative’?
  
  Reply
- Craig says:
  
  12:38pm | 29/12/10
  
  I didn’t really have any views until I discovered what The Greens stood for. Since then my views can best be described as the opposite of those of The Greens. I guess that makes me a conservative (like my parents, incidentally).
  
  Reply
jeffb says:

02:37pm | 29/12/10

I’m interested in knowing what policies from The Greens you’re so against.
Wayne Fehlhaber says:

05:39pm | 29/12/10

jeffb Death taxes. Euthenasia. Border protection. Gay Marriage. Taxation .
In short , all of their radical rubbish.
Ryan says:

11:36pm | 29/12/10

@jeffb: what about the policy that is against the universal declaration of human rights - compulsory student unions.. seems to me like the Greens couldn’t give a rats about human rights.
Front Row says:

11:46am | 30/12/10

With you all the way on this Craig.
I’m a former leftie - until I discovered former Labor heavy Lindsay Tanner worked it all out ages ago.
I finally flicked after thinking about Tanner’s best quote - which was (basically) that the Greens speak with leftist rhetoric, but all that results in right wing outcomes.
That was like a light bulb for me. Check Germany these days, for instance.
Thanks Lindsay Tanner, by the way.
jeffb says:

01:42pm | 30/12/10

Wayne, euthanasia and gay marriage are about respecting peoples right to chose what is right for their life, if that is radical then there is something wrong with our society.

I’m going to go out on a limb and say you haven’t read their policy on a “death” tax but it just sounds scary and you don’t like it, at its core an estate tax is trying to keep large sums of money in the economy rather than collecting dust for years in some random bank account, it doesn’t apply to the family farm, home or business. There’s really not a whole lot to it once you look at the details past the scary name.

Taxation is probably the only point I can agree is radical, its almost an entire overhaul to the taxation system. The Tax Summit this year should be interesting, hopefully the media steps up and can provide the policies the proper coverage they deserve.

Ryan, you need to get some perspective on human rights before you start making noise about compulsory student unions being a violation of them.

Front Row, thats kind of the funniest part about the ETS debate. You have the old left trying to sell a free market option with the old right trying to sell a government controlled fund that picks winners.
- Happy_Cynic says:
  
  12:40pm | 29/12/10
  
  I vote for the only person whose opinion I can trust. That is myself. I prefer to hold on to the opinion that everyone else is an idiot until proven otherwise and since pollies haven’t done anything with their lives except prove they are idiots I don’t vote for any of them.
  
  I also don’t buy studies that try to divide people up, especially with the banal generalisation of conservatives vs. liberals. There’s no true conservative or liberal just different people with different opinions, most of them all wrong.
  
  Reply
rudy says:

01:32pm | 29/12/10

If you’re so wise and so often right, why don’t you stand for office? Could it be that you’re nothing more than a sideline critic, scared to get out and do something lest you fail?
Happy_Cynic says:

01:58pm | 29/12/10

@rudy

Oh hell no, for two simple reasons.

1) I’m not stupid enough to run for office

2) I’m wrong just as often as everyone else, but at least I can trust myself to be consistent and honest with myself. I can’t have that same level of trust in other people, so I think it’s better to have no expectations and be pleasantly surprised than to have high expectations and be bitterly disappointed.
- YoursOptimistically says:
  
  12:42pm | 29/12/10
  
  It sounds/ looks like a very small sample size for such a bold statement. It would be a more conclusive if every MP was scanned.
  
  I grew up in a household where you had to vote Labor because that is who the lower/ middle class, union members vote for. I do not agree with my father and have thus always researched and voted on policy that I think will benefit this country. I long for the day when a federal government, governs in the interest of the country rather than the polls.
  
  Reply
John Smythe says:

02:26pm | 29/12/10

Reminds me of news.com.au stories…90% of Australians blah blah blah…

from a survey of 1,500 to 2,000 people…...
- Lee from WA says:
  
  12:42pm | 29/12/10
  
  A university study saying conservatives are crippled by fear? How self serving.
  
  I was a dyed in the wool, pro-union, pro-Labor type as a young guy but more recently have been more influenced by becoming a Christian (which leads me to a set of political values based on the gospel, which transcend the left-right spectrum) and a more pro-market stance.
  
  I reckon the study is trying to justify their own self-righteous pro-Green type stance.
  
  Reply
PaulB says:

01:45pm | 29/12/10

So what, you’ve replaced one set of received dogmas with another set? I don’t see any change here?
MrMac says:

02:47pm | 29/12/10

Many people replace one doctrinal belief system with another.
thatcherschild says:

05:43pm | 29/12/10

Thats right Lee, Jesus was sooo pro-market wasnt he?
And theres me raised in a Christian/Labour small business owning family, with the Christian principles of social justice.
Despite the fact I left the church the socila justice bit always stayed with me, indeed our minister used to espouse that Jesus was the first socialist.
@JulesG - your experience mimics mine but I didnt flee the UK til 01.
After living through the Thatcher years I would never, ever vote for the Right, even on pain of death.
That woman ripped the heart and soul out of the UK.
- JulesG says:
  
  12:42pm | 29/12/10
  
  This is very curious - absolutely no comment??? I would have thought this would have ‘em crawling out of the woodwork on this one.
  
  Given that ones personality and beliefs are a function of the brain, this all makes sense to me and the infinite variation is accounted for by variables between the 2 brain extremes.
  
  My views are my own and very strong and have arisen from my experience in Thatcher’s Britain and the only good that came of that was the fact that I moved to Australia. I don’t like political extremes, I like slightly left of centre and my view of conservatism is that it is way too far right and therefore too extreme.
  
  I was not influenced by my parents but by the Thatcherite injustices and rank inequality she brought to bear on Britain.
  
  Reply
acotrel says:

06:15am | 30/12/10

‘I was not influenced by my parents but by the Thatcherite injustices and rank inequality she brought to bear on Britain.’
I was in the UK a couple of years ago, and I wondered why the left was so much in evidence. In Australia it seems we don’t let people know how we feel. During my working life I noticed the Brits in the factories were the most industrially active, and we have all heard the whinging Pom unionist slur. Their industry seems to have been about 50 years ahead of ours, and they already had the fights long before they ever came here, and found out how backward we are. The difference is that Australia has little engineering based industries these days, and the UK has a lot of high tech stuff. So who was right? - the ‘she’ll be right’ idiots, or those who fought for something better?
- biff says:
  
  12:59pm | 29/12/10
  
  If we voted according to the talent on offer in state and federal politics the courts would be clogged with people being prosecuted for not voting. We are saddled with lackwits masquerading as MPs and we are forced to vote for them. We all need our brains examined after voting for the current crop of lackwits.
  
  Reply
- A Bob says:
  
  01:07pm | 29/12/10
  
  If you read the original story the ‘study’ was a quickie for a TV show.
  
  “The study was commissioned as a light-hearted experiment by actor Colin Firth while guest editing BBC Radio’s Today program”
  
  I prefererred news.com.au’s original headline of ‘Conservatives have thick brains’
  
  Reply
- dovif says:
  
  01:07pm | 29/12/10
  
  I am not buying it, I just support the Coalition because everytimes the ALP get into power anywhere, they just stuff things up
  
  Whether it was Keating with his recession we had to have and blown budget, Carr, Iemma, Keanelly etc with their do nothing (north west railroad, electricity and general plaaning) government, or stuff it up really badly when they try (Xcity, M5, hospital planing, Metro), Beattie with his spin driven government, or Rudd and Gillard with their thosands of stuff ups (asylum seekers, BER, Insulation, Green loan, Mining tax etc) and blown budgets
  
  It seems every few year, we decide to give the ALP a try, and we always finds them to be incompetant… so I do the smart thing and vote Liberals
  
  Reply
rudy says:

01:35pm | 29/12/10

You’re nothing more than a hardline partisan. Neither side has a monopoly on wisdom nor good or bad performance. Enough voters recognise this to make sure we have a healthy democracy with rotating governments, ensuring there’s not too much complacency.
dinkidi says:

01:50pm | 29/12/10

I think I am with you dovif. My parents were rabidly Labor voters,they believed Labor was for the little man and worked untiringly for them. I see Labor as a line up of hungry lawyers, union wannabees who are so ambitious for power ,they are willing to stab the bloke in front to take his place. I seriously do not believe any of them really care a sh$t about this country or its Australian people.
dovif says:

02:23pm | 29/12/10

Rudy

Quite Simple…. Liberals are generally competant, Fahey, Howard, Kennett were all competant, while most of what we see from the ALP ... Rudd, Gillard, Carr, Iemma, Keannelly are generally incompetant

It might all just be coincidence, but I am still waiting for a competent ALP prime minister or premier
Paul says:

03:27pm | 29/12/10

^ Obviously spelling is not a criteria?
Codger says:

08:21am | 30/12/10

Paul, if you’re going to snipe at someone about what they write, you might want to get your grammar correct. One criterion, two criteria.
acotrel says:

09:17am | 30/12/10

And I always thought the Criterion was a pub!
Ryan says:

12:23pm | 30/12/10

@Paul: obviously having the most boring and pathetic response like attacking spelling is not a criteria either?
The Badger says:

12:24pm | 30/12/10

No Acotrel
it’s a theatre
- Gregg says:
  
  01:14pm | 29/12/10
  
  Two MPs and 90 students is not altogether much of a cross section in diversity nor quantum Tors and on that score I’d not buy the results either.
  It’d be interesting to also see what cross mixes there were with students for they are one group in the community who often develop views opposite to conservative and then it would also be even more interesting to see if views changed with age/experience and whether that was reflected in brain chunks.
  
  The experience of our own family/siblings is that whilst my father had very limited education his work ethic was more one you would associate with non unionism or the conservative side and I have seen that exact same trait in other people too.
  My mother never expressed much in the way of political thoughts, not that we were around the kitchen table discussing it and it was not really until well into a working adult life that any of my own views developed and in general terms I would hold views opposite that of my brother at Xmas dinners much to the displeasure of Mum for she just did not want us arguing.
  An elder sister to us both is probably more of conservative values though she was a social worker for many years.
  
  My own views were probably more developed by exposure in middle management at locations like Broken Hill which was quite good and then the Latrobe Valley, quite a hot bed and whilst I would tend more conservative I have at times voted against them on principle such as involvement in Iraq.
  I have also had times of insufficient interest to use the opportunity of a relocation not to be enrolled and because no matter what political party may be in power, it does seem to some extent poor governance one way or another will occur, it is understandable that there will often be swingers.
  
  So I would think it is going to be more life’s experiences for many and if anything students are probably just too young to give a representative conclusion.
  
  Reply
- Levi says:
  
  01:19pm | 29/12/10
  
  The main point to take from this is that at least conservatives have a brain. Bleeding heart lefties simply have a cavity with a picture of people of all colours holding hands and reciting verses from the Koran
  
  Reply
jeffb says:

03:06pm | 29/12/10

left-right herp derp herp derp
stephen says:

07:05pm | 29/12/10

The brain scan of a conservative is :
‘bleep’. Just one.

The brain scan of a progressive is :
‘bleep to the power of 10, minus a couple for the time the Member for Wentworth crossed the floor in conscience over the asylum issue’.

But I won’t give that extra to the foremost, cause he ain’t a conservative.
Levi says:

09:24am | 30/12/10

I rest my case. 1 to the power of 10 is still one.

Like i said, conservatives have brains. small “l” liberals have none
stephen says:

08:04pm | 30/12/10

One to the power of ten is one ?
What school did you go to ? Night school.
You must be a conservative.
TimB says:

08:44pm | 30/12/10

@ Stephen

Wow. Just wow.

One to the power of Ten= 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1.

Be a good boy and solve that one for me. Let me know what it comes out to.

If it’s too tricky for you though, you could always try this informative link:

http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=1^10
Levi says:

09:19am | 31/12/10

HAHAHA oh thats about the funniest thing thats happened on the punch all year. You still there stephen? Or are you hiding in shame? Did you go to the website stephen? was 1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1x1 too difficult on a calculator or in your head?

Yet again the superiority of conservative brains is revealed for all to see.
- Rosie says:
  
  01:26pm | 29/12/10
  
  My political views are my own and based mainly on if you do the hard yaka to take care of your well being now and in the future, you don’t need wefare provided by the Govt. You also do not take from the hard workers to provide for those that don’t make any effort to take care of their well being. I like to think that is why I have voted Liberal all my life. You can call me whatever you like but to me I am just me with moral principles learning to accept even if I don’t agree to some of today’s modern way of thinking in many of the stuff that is put before me. My way of staying honest, sane and very comfortable in my own skin is because of my acceptance to some of the things I disagree with and my old fashion way of thinking!
  
  My children’s generation are over educated with theories that looks pretty good on paper but in reality lacks common sense! Everything these days are over analysed to justify the education one is so fortunate to have in a developed country! On the other hand there are people in undeveloped countries like to believe in God for their survival. I find it a good thing as it at least gives them hope.
  
  Reply
- The Badger says:
  
  01:40pm | 29/12/10
  
  “Are conservatives really just lacking courage?”
  Nope, they are lacking much more than that:
  Intelligence
  Compassion
  Talent
  Wisdom
  Policies (other than NO)
  That’s just a start
  
  Reply
NicoleG says:

01:54pm | 29/12/10

Badger, you’re confused. You just described yourself. Try not to be so hard on yourself.
fairsfair says:

02:00pm | 29/12/10

I resent that comment Badger - you are not correct and again take an opportunity to discuss the foundations of ideology as an attempt to go on with your usual clap trap.

You lack courage because you post under multiple names and play the man not the game. You lack intelligence as you go about it rather weirdly and most people would describe a lot of your trott as just plain dumb. You lack compassion as evidenced in a lot of the babble that you post on this site. You lack talent because 99% of the time you are not funny, even though it is plainly obvious that that is what you are trying to be… need I go on? Oh but wait… you are not conservative…. so you have just blown your entire notion.

I totally respect your opinions even though I think they are wrong, but I am tired of the attack on the people who don’t think the same as you. You need to come up with some more constructive criticism if it is your aim to “convert” people’s thinking. You are scared of what you don’t agree with and that is bred by a lack of all things that you have listed above. By your own definition that makes you conservative. I will now wait for you to call me fatty or something.
Rosie says:

02:26pm | 29/12/10

Badger caught!

fairsfair is that right Badger posts under multiple names?????? That explains why he sounds so similar to that other buffoon nosthow!

Someone please explain is our PM a conservative really lacking courage because of the way in which she keeps changing her mind as she dithers her way through trying to govern?????? If so wouldn’t it be better to have that lack of courage in implementing the decisions she makes rather than to go ahead making a mess of the country???????

Either way the country and its citizens misses out as she plods along in a shambolic way for her survial to remain in power.
Super D says:

02:30pm | 29/12/10

It’s not that conservatives lack courage, it’s more that progressives are crazy brave, not thinking through the logical consequences of the inconsistent positions they adopt. Progressives adopt policies the way the Jackass guys choose their stunts. “Sounds Cool dude” is as much intellectual rigour as they can muster.
dovif says:

02:31pm | 29/12/10

I think the Badger is the classic prove that he lacks

Intelligence
Compassion
Talent
Wisdom
Policies (other than NO)
That’s just a start

If he is remotely any of those things, he would not be posting something so stupid without any prove
TimB says:

03:23pm | 29/12/10

I am 99.99% certain I am more intelligent, talented etc than you. The point 0.01% comes from the possibility you may actually be a truly gifted actor who merely pretends to be this thick for kicks.

Actually I’m also 99% certain that 99% of the other posters here (regardless of politics) are more intelligent and talented than you.

@ Rosie, no, we know what Nosthow’s game is, he isn’t Badger. We have our strong suspicions about “Mr Mustela” though.

Actually given that Mustelidae is the name for the taxonomical family the Badger belongs to…its almost certain. (Mustela itself is the genus for Weasles which also belong to the Mustelidae family.
Jackie says:

04:36pm | 29/12/10

Lordy- pretty woeful bunch, eh? Or you are generalising wildly, one or t’other. I know which I think. I’m not a dyed in the wool conservative by the way. I am conservative about some things and liberal and progressive about other issues. I vote according to what each party is offering at the time.
Liam says:

08:56pm | 29/12/10

LOL @ dovif, did you mean proof, not prove? Speaking of intelligence…
acotrel says:

06:34am | 30/12/10

‘Intelligence
Compassion
Talent
Wisdom
Policies (other than NO)’
- sounds about right!

@Badger, have you been peeking at the LIberal Party web site again? It all adds up to the theory of Liberal Jack! _’I'm alright, I’m aboard, pull up the ladder’!
Mr. Mustela says:

08:37pm | 30/12/10

Hey super-intelligent timmie
you spell it weasel, not weasle.

You can’t even copy from wkikpedia properly.
TimB says:

09:10pm | 30/12/10

Oh noes! You have caught me in a typo. How exciting for you, He Of The Thousand Names. You should crack open a bottle of grape juice or whatever to celebrate.

BTW, just for you I’ll make sure to pay more attention to “wkikpedia” in future.

Ah, irony. You do entertain me so.
- Razor says:
  
  01:48pm | 29/12/10
  
  I just looked at the facts - capitalism, the rule of law, and the limited liability company are all pillars of the most succesfull societies in the history of the world. All of the greatest scientific and social advances have been made in capitalist democracies. Capitalist democracies combined to defeat some of the most evil crimes against humanity.
  
  It’s not perfect but Conservatism based on the economic and social underpinings of capitalist democracy beats the bejeezus out of anything put forward by the progressives so far. When they do so succesfully I will change my mind.
  
  Reply
Shane From Melbourne says:

05:29pm | 29/12/10

Yeah that’s why the “successful capitalist democracies” such as the United States, Britain, Ireland and Greece are basket cases and authoritarian mercantilist nations such as China are doing so well. BTW I like it how conservatives believe in the free market but are willing to “socialize” the losses borne by the banks by taxpayer bailouts. (contrary to how a free market is supposed to work) I also like how conservatives believe in a global economy but don’t like refugees, which are in effect just a transfer of labor from one area to another.
- Jotun says:
  
  01:52pm | 29/12/10
  
  Definitely don’t buy the result of that study - too small a sample area.
  
  My political views definitely do not come from my parents. They are chalk and cheese when it even comes to forming opinion on government; my father is thoughtful, considers all views, is sceptical of union movements despite being an electrician, and equally sceptical of big business and corporations, being a country boy. My mother is strong-willed, extremely gullible and hates government, but almost always votes for the blokes who promise her the most money as a married, then divorced mother working in banking and administration.
  
  I believe representative democracy is failing to work, partisan politics is to blame for it, leaving the decisions of government to majority (and a lot of the time, minority) rather than general consensus and compromise is ruining the ideals of true democracy, and we might as well live under oligarchies.
  
  No politician will truly stand up for human rights, western governments are far too concerned about maintaining the balance of wealth over the developing world. That being said, the same governments are hoodwinked time and time again by the select few who are smart enough to take advantage of popularly-elected idiots to maintain their true power over us all, and they deserve all they have garnered.
  
  What I think this means is I’m pretty cynical about humans in general.
  
  Reply
acotrel says:

09:13am | 30/12/10

Shane, we’ve even had the free market proponents claiming the banks shouldn’t have been bailed out! They’re derfinitely in La La land. The result of clinging to that ideology during the GFC could lead to revolution. But that’s OK isn’t it, as long as we can maintain our beliefs? The simple fact is that the ideology is flawed - proof lies in the fact that the system collapsed, and we had to revert to socialism on a huge scale. The capitalist system runs on bullshit!
- Rosie says:
  
  01:55pm | 29/12/10
  
  Yes Badger you would have to say all the things you have listed because it is people like you that lack the common sense to realize how fortunate you are to live in a country that enables you to take from the hard workers sweating their guts out for their well being now and for their future to provide for those that don’t give a shit about their well being!
  
  You wouldn’t have a clue what compassion is, all you are is want, want and more want spending other people’s money!
  
  Reply
- Radagast says:
  
  02:17pm | 29/12/10
  
  I would agree with the study. Conservatives are always the ones who believe we are under attack and should get bigger weapons. Conservatives are always scared of a public uprising, so we should diminish our freedoms and rights. And they are always afraid of the truth, which is why they are going for Julian Assange with all the Zeal of a religious nutter.
  
  Reply
fairsfair says:

02:36pm | 29/12/10

The US is going after Assange and they are currently lead by a progressive government… I don’t get your logic I am sorry.
Not convinced says:

02:46pm | 29/12/10

To Radagast - is that why the Internet filter is to be brought in by the Labour Government? To increase our freedom and rights?
The S.A. Labour Government is busily removing work place entitlements negotiated by that same government less than 12 months previously. The consultation process with rural communities is a farce. It was not the Liberal leader who declared Julian Assange to be a dangerous criminal and was then unable to back up the claim. What is the opposite of conservative anyway? Exploiter? Pillager? Wasteful incompetents?
marley says:

02:56pm | 29/12/10

Well, logically, if you’re afraid of the oppressive and heavy hand of conservatism, then you must be a conservative yourself. Because you’re afraid. Because you’re seeing the dark, not the bright, side of life.

That’s why this study makes no sense, by the way. Most serious lefties I know aren’t the optimists portrayed here; in fact, they have the darkest of worldviews. They see an approaching Armageddon from climate change, environmental destruction, overpopulation or American imperialism; they see human rights being curtailed, freedom of speech compromised, and the police and intelligence services running rampant (even though they’re putting their thoughts out to all and sundry, with ne’er a worry about a knock on the door at midnight); and they see the political process as mired in corruption and self-interest, no longer serving the interests of the common man. (On that last point, incidentally, conservatives would agree - they simply feel that politics has always been that way, which is one reason they prefer less rather than more government.)
Radagast says:

06:36pm | 29/12/10

To all of the replies (thanks). Yes, in a strange way you are correct. But the ALP you speak of is now a conservative movement, which fits in well with the theory. The progressives are the ones who are promoting renewable energy as the positive solution to climate change. Yep, we’re an optimistic bunch all right. Please feel free to comment further.
Don says:

10:09pm | 29/12/10

Renewable energy - bwahahaha. Your brain really has to have a few screws loose to believe in that phrase.
- thatmosis says:
  
  02:37pm | 29/12/10
  
  I am confused Craig, do the greens actually stand for anything ? I thought they were just there to feather their own nest, do enough years to collect their luctitve pension and then disappear into the woodwork. That is of course afterimposing extra taxes on the Australian people for airy fairy sky is falling ideas that have been literally washed down the drain.
  
  Reply
jeffb says:

03:02pm | 29/12/10

I’m guessing the ‘washed down the drain’ comment is somehow stating global warming isn’t taking place because of the recent floods and cold snaps, etc?

If so, that is not really true. Can I suggest you do some research on the hydrologic cycle? The process by which water evaporates and is stored in the atmosphere, eventually condensing and falling back to earth by rain or snow. The amount of water vapour the atmosphere can hold is regulated by temperature, temperature also regulates how fast surface water evaporates. The more water vapour in the atmosphere the more potential for dramatic local weather conditions, it also compounds the green house effect.

Its all pretty simple really.
- jeffb says:
  
  02:47pm | 29/12/10
  
  I think some people misunderstand what conservatism is, everyone wants progress just conservatives are willing to risk less and move slower to achieve it. This is why its very easy for people who are fully evaluating policy to seem to switch between right & left on different issues.
  
  At the end of the day the whole process of labelling a view left or right seems childish and just takes away from the debate.
  
  You shouldn’t confuse an individual politicians views with an entire ideology. Just as you shouldn’t blindly follow or oppose a political party just because of their founding ideology.
  
  Reply
Jackie says:

04:52pm | 29/12/10

You’ve summed up my thoughts nicely.
- Lisa H. says:
  
  02:53pm | 29/12/10
  
  I ws screaming left when I was young. I was a good student from an ordinary public school and very much a product of my teachers. I swallowed their assumptions and prejudices blindly.
  
  Now, nearing 40, I’m afraid I’m more complicated. Why? I opened a business with my husband.
  
  Watching my husband knock himself out for the sake of our ‘community’, at a lower per-hourly rate than a junior, and with none of the perks or conditions, has fundamentally affected our family life.
  
  And while we are bearing these responsibilities, we bear the frankly rude and ignorant prejudices of our employees, who, like children, assume that simply because we pay their tax bills, we are rolling in dough.
  
  This ongoing experience of being a ‘little person’ in the machine of government, as a small business person, has really affected me.
  
  We collectively want someone (‘government’) to pay welfare, super, maternity and sickleave allowances? Fine, let’s all fund them like grownups then.
  
  Have employers pay a single gross amount in wages, directly to each employee, and let individuals take responsiblity for their own taxes, super payments etc.
  
  Making our own transfers would be a great step forward in a developing a more representative ‘democracy’, by making people more aware of the waste and self-serving nature of government.
  
  Self-starters are not inherently less moral than government types. We are all capitalists, even if some of us prefer to live from taxing the earnings of others.
  
  Reply
Roy says:

06:14pm | 29/12/10

Lisa H, While I see your point of view. I can understand where your employees are getting their opinions from. In my town there are business people with healthcare cards because of their clever accountants. I have stood beside them at the Dr’s and Chemist as they flash the card and get the reduced price, watched them get into their new Landcruisers/Patrols and drive away.
- Craig says:
  
  02:57pm | 29/12/10
  
  The facts are a little different young people as a rule tend to vote left and the older people get the more they vote right.
  
  Probably something to do with the areas of the frontal lobes that govern rational behaviour aren’t fully developed until the mid 20’s
  
  An example of voting patterns. http://www.civicyouth.org/PopUps/FactSheets/FS_04VotingRace.pdf
  
  Reply
- TimB says:
  
  03:12pm | 29/12/10
  
  Personally, I don’t know for sure how my parents vote (it’s not something we’ve discussed at length) and my friends are a pretty mixed bag across the Greens Labor, and the Liberals.
  I like to think my political beliefs are purely my own, based on my own experience & opinions, rather than influence from anyone else.
  
  As it stands up until a few years ago I didn’t pay much attention to politics beyond the headline knowledge needed to get the jokes on The Glass House & The Chaser.
  
  When I started voting, I did it purely based on the “vibe” I got during the campaigns. My first election was NSW in 2003 and I went Labor because Carr seemed in control and the Libs were a rabble. Of course we all know how that turned out, 2004 onwards was one disaster after another and I switched to the Libs to enact just punishment on Labor. There I have remained since and with good reason.
  
  Federally, in 2004 I voted similarily. Howard seemed to be doing a pretty good job & Latham was hardly PM material.
  
  2007 was where I first started to really take notice of things. My vote there was mostly influenced by the bad smell I sensed coming from Kevin Rudd: his populist “down with the kids” persona came off as utterly contrived & fake, with the nail in the coffin being his gag-inducing appearance on Rove.
  The other part of it was actually noticing how bad things had gotten under the last Labor government (& Labor NSW), thus leading the opinion that Labor just didn’t seem up to governing.
  
  Of course the Rudd government went on to prove every one of the misgivings I had and then some. Alas the Libs didn’t seem like they were going to do much about it, under Nelson and Turnbull they were utterly spineless.
  
  Along comes Tony Abbott, finally opposing every bit of stupid policy that the Rudd government insisted on forcing down our throats. Thus my interest is perked, and a political tragic is born.
  
  That’s not to say that there aren’t Lib policies I disagree with either. Just that in the grand scheme of things as they stand, I view Labor’s policies as far more damaging, and Labor in general as a bunch of poll-driven, money wasting, incompetents.
  
  I never really self identified as a “conservative”, but mostly because I’ve never really thought about it. But it seems to be a label that many people here have put on me, so if my voting logic as it stands makes me a conservative, then so be it.
  
  Actually if anything I would identify with the definition “South Park Conservative”
  
  (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Park_Republican)
  
  It’s a little American in its definition (hence the use of the term Republican), but I feel it mostly fits.
  
  Reply
- Jonno says:
  
  03:15pm | 29/12/10
  
  Lefties = false appearances of compassion / goodness which are meant to sucker others in so they can take power over or breed with them. e.g Asylum seekers. Let the boats roll in and be “compassionate” so the self-funding smuggled arrivees displace the patient ethical ones waiting in camps for five years. Real compassion / practical solution (typical of “righty”) is sound tougher than you really are and shut the smugglers down. Left / Right is all about “appearing compassionate/progressive” vs “delivering practical solutions”. Go and find that in a brain scan.
  
  Reply
- nosthow says:
  
  03:37pm | 29/12/10
  
  Not just lacking courage Tory - absolutely spineless ! No policies and no vision for Australias future and led by a Redneck Right Winger Abbott who would damage Australia horribly if ever he were to get his hands on the levers of power. What they need to do is to come back from the extreme Right where they are now positioned and then elect a decent leader like say Greg Hunt and then formulate some policies and vision. Until then they are just like Abbott - unelectable !
  
  Reply
fairsfair says:

04:08pm | 29/12/10

Get your hand off your own lever!

Mr Hunt seems to have a lot in common with Tones. His membership to his local surf life saving club would also suggest that he regularly dons budgie smuggles nosthow - I am surprised by your comment!
nosthow says:

06:52pm | 29/12/10

@fairsfair - hope you survived Chrissy FF ? No its been many a year since nossy was in a position that he had to “indulge himself” FF - as a matter of fact I was only looking at myself in the full length mirror the other day and asked the question"Is it possible nossy that you are even more handsome than last year ?” - and do you know what my answer was FF - go on have a guess ? It was “YES” !
- neil says:
  
  04:37pm | 29/12/10
  
  So conservatives tend to have a more developed amygdalas, the part of the brain that controls your survival instincts and lefties have a more developed anterior cingulate, the did that controls emotions.
  
  So what they are saying in simple terms is that conservatives make rational decisions and lefties make impulsive decisions.
  
  Like we didn’t already know that.
  
  Reply
James1 says:

10:58am | 04/01/11

Who was it that decided to invade Iraq? I don’t think it is quite that simple neil. Both sides do stupid impulsive things. No side of politics has a monopoly on stupid. Just look at the Tea Party - almost makes me ashamed to lean to the right.
- Brad says:
  
  05:09pm | 29/12/10
  
  The Left/Right Dynamic is a smokescreen. Divide and Conquer. They are two hands connected to the same beast. It is a game that is being played on us.
  
  Reply
- crumpy gunt says:
  
  05:24pm | 29/12/10
  
  My immigrant English father was a Labor man, circa 1929. His father was a Marxist. My paternal grandmother was a Suffragette. My mother was of aboriginee descent. I on the other hand, am a f#&8%6h2@^ tourette syndrome $%#@*& f+^&$%@# result of this #$N*&^$V@ mixed heritage. So, my views are conservative, mother having no views, except survival before I was born. So you soft co*k commentators ought get some of the uncommon variety, of common sense. Australian politics is about as interesting as the fluff in my navel, as are the participating politicians.
  
  Reply
- AnthonyG says:
  
  06:33pm | 29/12/10
  
  Most people start voting labor. As the brain gains knowledge from real life experience they tend to change to liberal unless they never leave school and become teachers or spend to much time at uni and spend there days correcting peoples spelling or grammar on these sites or doll bludgers and welfair cheats.
  
  Reply
Chris says:

07:22pm | 29/12/10

1. “Most people start voting labor” Have you polled them all??!!
2. “As the brain gains knowledge….. they tend to change to liberal” What about that many would now have families, mortgages etc and so are more settled and less likely to want challenge or change? There are very many factors involved and again, have you polled them all?
3. “or spend to (sic) much time at uni and spend there (sic) days correcting peoples (sic) grammar ... or doll (sic) bludgers and welfair (sic) cheats” I guess you’re not speaking about yourself then?
We’re all entitled to opinions and we all deserve to be heard but I think we should all mention that our opinions are just that, conjecture based on personal views and not necessarily the definitive Truth. Just because you hold one view and someone else holds another doesn’t make either of you ‘wrong’ or ‘right’ and doesn’t entitle you to belittle them.
AnthonyG says:

08:34pm | 29/12/10

Chris. I thought is was a stupid topic so i gave it a stupid answer. Don’t take it personally.
NicoleG says:

08:34pm | 29/12/10

So you shouldn’t ridicule other people Chris? Pot-Kettle-Black sunshine.

1) Polls are extremely inacurate. Particularly when numptys take them multiple times.

2) As you age you gain wisdom and can see the forest from the trees.

3) Pull your head out of your ass and see what’s what.

4) I f$%^ing hate the grammar and spelling police. Your grammar is shite.

5) Anthony’s spelling of ‘doll’ is purely because he is unfamiliar with the term. He’s never been on it a day in his life.

6) Don’t hang shit on my husband.
AnthonyG says:

09:25pm | 29/12/10

What i should have said is when your young you tend to vote with your heart and when you get life experiance you vote with your brain.
Rosie says:

10:05pm | 29/12/10

I love it! “Most people start voting labor” As the brain gains knowledge they tend to change to liberal.”

The ones that do not change but will vote Labor under any situation are the over educated ones that have lost all sense of reasoning, those that lack common sense, those that take pleasure in correcting people’s grammar, those that try to justify their intellect and worst of all those that have to rely on the hard working section of our society for their well being! They will vote Labor because it is the Party that will hand out welfare!

Chris I agree we are entitled to our opinions so I am with AnthonyG!
bec says:

08:19am | 30/12/10

Hi Rosie,

I wonder if you can help me out with this issue. I fear that I am at risk of being one of those over-educated people. However, I am uncertain as to what the criteria is for this.

Is it multiple undergraduate or postgraduate degrees? Is it reading books that are more challenging than Jodi Picoult or Dan Brown? Is it getting your information from somewhere slightly more intelligible than the comments on various Herald Sun articles?

I would very much like your help in not being over-educated.
James1 says:

11:06am | 04/01/11

Rosie, I correct peoples’ grammar because I am a conservative. As a conservative, I do not see any need to tolerate stupidity or undereducation. These are the products of a lazy mind, and simply display a lack of drive and ambition.
- nosthow says:
  
  07:03pm | 29/12/10
  
  Tory in case I dont get the opportunity please accept nossys very best wishes for your upcoming “blessed event” in January I think you said? May 2011 be all you ever wanted Tory.
  
  Reply
- Seano says:
  
  07:31pm | 29/12/10
  
  Which part of the brain maps the ability to think for yourself? That’s what I think most conservatives lack. It’s why they attack in packs using almost identical rhetoric, it’s why they think that one conservative backing another ranter with a droll “yeah wot he said” is a winning argument.
  
  Reply
TimB says:

08:08pm | 29/12/10

Is that anything like thinking that “You’re all conservative, so you must be wrong” is a winning argument?

You might want to look into that “thinking for yourself” thing too. Especially when sweeping generalisations and assumptions seems to be the basis for most of your arguments.
Seano says:

01:29am | 30/12/10

Timmy. I do love the way you put words I didn’t say into my mouth and then shoot them down. You don’t even need me to make you look like a goose, which kinda spoils the fun.

As for thinking for yourself, when have you ever done anything except spout hive mind rhetoric?

PS. I love the way you have a go at my “sweeping generalisations” whilst making one. But there you go again spoiling my fun making yourself look stupid.
scaper... says:

07:39am | 30/12/10

Conservatives lack the ability to think for themselves…a sweeping generalisation!

Conservatives attack in packs, LOL! Another sweeping generalisation.

Then Seano goes onto say that Tim is putting words into his mouth?

It’s all there to see, Seano. I would not accuse Tim of looking stupid as your argument does not stack up and rarely does…now that’s a sweeping generalisation that I can take to the bank!

Out of your depth here, PAL!
NicoleG says:

07:46am | 30/12/10

You have just done a Badger Seano. You have just described yourself. May I direct you to the article yesterday on what happens when you die? Rosie was attacked, pack style, and you were right in there doing exactly that. Do you know what the word hypocrite means? You’re also a patronising twit !
TimB says:

08:48am | 30/12/10

So you didn’t use those exact words. Who cares. That’s still your attitiude. How many “rebuttles” have I seen from you that consist of nothing more than variations on “You’re a conservative, so therefore your arguments are shit”. As opposed to actual facts, & proper counter arguments I mean.
And you claim we’re the ones who have nothing but rhetoric. Hilarious.

I also like the part where you think you’ve scored a gotcha moment in me taking a crack at the sweeping generalisations in your post.
Difference is, mine isn’t baseless. Or do you deny that initial post wasn’t a giant pants load of generalisations?

“Conservatves lack the ability to think for themselves”
“They all attack in packs with with identical rhetoric”
“They all use “yeah wot he said” and call it a winning argument”

Oh I’m sorry, you left yourself an escape hole. You said “most”. You really think that makes it all better? It’s still a bunch of lazy general statements with zero proof.

Of course that’s just one post. Wouldn’t want you to accuse me of more genaralising. So let’s pick out a few more:

“Seano says:09:48pm | 11/05/10

You voted for Labor and now the policy vaccuum that is Abbott is suddenly electable…yeah ok. “

Illustrates your automatic assumption that someone who says they voted for Labor before and now won’t be must be lying. I mean how could people possibly turn their faces from the divine greatness that is the Labor party?! Inconcievable, right?!

“Seano says:10:08am | 29/07/10

I like the way conservatives spit at the BER without actually being able to find anything wrong with it.”

Shows automatic dismissal of opinions simply because they’re “Conservative”, and deliberate ignorance of facts such as the clear problems with the BER simply because they don’t support your own opinion.

“Seano says:03:01pm | 29/07/10

I’m about as interested in the biased comments of Hadley and former Liberal party speech writer Jones as I am in those that use terms such as “socialist criminals”.

More automatic dismissal of opinions simply because you don’t agree with them.

Now I could sit here all day looking for more examples. I don’t have time. Of course what I have provided probably won’t be enough for you. Using your gift for arguing on technicalities, you could rightly point out that I haven’t gone through all your posts, thus making my argument technically flawed. But I don’t really care.
I have enough support to form a solid enough base for my conclusions (far moire support than you have for yours) and I doubt that anyone who’s familiar with what you post would be likely to disagree with me either.

But to be sure, let’s get back to this paticular post of yours.

Now in yet another one of your trademark episodes of genaralisations and assumptions, you call all my posts “sweeping rhetoric” and assume that I don’t come up with my own opinions.

Sorry, but saying so doesn’t make it so. I have my own opinions. Opinions formed myself, based on facts. If they happen to be similar to others (and opinions born from the same set of facts tend to be similar), then so be it. Or do you honestly expect every single person to have a unique indiviual opinion? Don’t be ridiculous.

You don’t like my opinions? Tough. But argue with them based on their own merit, your cheap attempts at devaluing them simply because “they’re conservative” is intellectually lazy.

PS. Another gem of a post of yours. It’s actually a favourite of mine considering your initial statements:

“Seano says:04:52pm | 29/07/10

@Macca - wot Rob said. lol “

Rob of course refers to our good friend Rob R Charteris, so don’t try to wriggle out of this by claiming some sort of sarcasm or ironic use. You meant every word.
Seano says:

11:22am | 30/12/10

@Scaper - I am some what a leftie and yet I still hold a number of conservative views and do not support every Labor government or everything Labor governments do. This is in complete opposition to the likes of Timmy, yourself and the rest of the rightr wing attack pack. None of you demonstrate any ability to comment on any issue that is not in line with the hive mentality or to do anything other than to toe the conservative line on every issue. But thanks for demonstrating my point that you lot attack in packs and have little to offer beyond “wot he said”.

@NicoleG - I guess we couldn’t expect much better from you than your “you’re a bigger one” style argument. And apparently I’m out of my depth, lol. Another with nothing to offer beyond “wot he said” and another demonstration of the moronic way these hive thinkers attack in packs, yet another proving my point.

@Timmy - “so you didn’t use those exact words. Who cares.”

LMAO! Ever wonder why you have a credibility problem Timmy? lol.

Yes you wouldn’t want to let the facts get in the way of your arguments would you Timmy? Real smart. As you’re not going to respond to my ACTUAL words I don’t think I’ll bother reading yours. Seems fair.

PS. But I did notice at the bottom of your silly rant your misrepresentation (again) of what I said, another example of your weak argument style. I’d be happy to argue opinions with you if you had anything other than vitriolic ranting about things you’ve made up. Thanks again for demonstrating my point.
scaper... says:

06:22pm | 30/12/10

Gee Seano, you won’t find me in any pack. I just thought your post was hypocritical, in the least.

I’m neither left or right as that is a fallacy to ensure this nation is divided…wings are sweeping generalisations if I ever saw one.

Labor sucks at everything they touch and at least the Liberals have a modicum of management expertise but they are flawed too!

I also think this ‘attack in packs’ is just an exposure of your insecurity as if you thought your argument held weight you should be able to take on all and sundry…toughen up or the imaginary pack will chew you out every time.
TimB says:

06:33pm | 30/12/10

” As you’re not going to respond to my ACTUAL words I don’t think I’ll bother reading yours”

I quoted your actual words. You still don’t feel like responding. In fact you directly accuse me of misrepresenting you in my last post which is a complete lie.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Ghosts-of-Howard-walking-the-streets-of-Bennelong/#comment-177369

Here’s your exact post. Exactly as I posted it here. Where’s the misrepresentation?
Seano says:

06:48pm | 30/12/10

@scaper:

“I’m neither left or right as that is a fallacy”

followed by:

“Labor sucks at everything they touch”.

You guys would be funny if you weren’t so scarily deranged.

“toughen up or the imaginary pack will chew you out every time”

Not by the likes of you and the rest of the right wing brains trust champ.
scaper... says:

07:50am | 31/12/10

I see you fail to mention that I said the coalition is flawed too. You seem to also have a comprehension deficiency or are you just a Labor drone???

Labor does suck at everything they touch. They have left a foul trail of policy stuff ups and waste not seen by any other government in our history!

I see you are still banging on about wings. You are one phucked up individual who cries being ganged up on…almost worthy of pity, lol!
Seano says:

08:08am | 31/12/10

@scaper - please do continue pretending to be balanced and sane whilst posting atypical right wing rants and bile, funny stuff.

@Tim - you admitted misrepresenting me and now you want to be taken seriously? It doesn’t work that way, time to grow up champ.
TimB says:

08:50am | 31/12/10

@Seano, when did I admit misrepresenting you?

It’s all in your imagination. A convenient excuse so you don’t have to respond to valid arguments.
Seano says:

09:35am | 31/12/10

TimB says - “So you didn’t use those exact words”

You are silly.
TimB says:

10:14am | 31/12/10

Oh Seano. I get it now. When I use words that aren’t *exactly* like yours but mean the same thing that you have said, I’m somehow misrepresenting you.

But when you say that I admitted misrepresenting you then *also* use my completely different words to back yourself up (that actually mean no such thing as you claim), it’s ok.

What’s really funny is even when I take great pains to use your *exact* words so you can’t hide behind meaningless technicalities, you still claim I’m misrepresenting you.

What a joke.
Seano says:

11:45am | 31/12/10

@Timmy - boy, you put words in my mouth that I didn’t say so you could “cleverly” shoot them down. That’s the end of it, you’re not worth arguing with any further, and as such I wont.

Point proven, conservatives attack in packs, have a hive mentality, rarely have anything to offer, don’t think for themselves and bizzarely believe that their pack behaviour some how makes them right.

Rant on boy.

Next!
TimB says:

12:42pm | 31/12/10

No I shot down your hypocritical attitude.

Then when you had a sook about that, I shot down your exact words.

Of course, you ignored that too, because hey, it’d mean admitting I had a point.

Now I’ve exposed your hypocricy for all to see you don’t feel like playing anymore. Classy.

Let’s sum up:

Seano thinks he’s superior to conservatives because:

-They hunt in packs/have a hive mentality. Like Seano did here.
http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/what-do-you-think-happens-when-we-die/

- They rarely have anything to offer/can’t think for themselves

Like Seano when he has to rely on technicalities and misdirection to avoid the fact that he doesn’t have an actual counter argument to any of my points.

-The conservatives think “wot he said ” is a winning argument….even though he uses the exact same argument himself.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/Ghosts-of-Howard-walking-the-streets-of-Bennelong/#comment-177369

Seano has been proven repeatedly to be full of the same stuff he decries yet he still believes he’s somehow “better”. Hilarity.

I don’t know whether you wallow in self-denial or are just stubborn, but I’m glad that the majority of people on this site can see through you at least.
Seano says:

03:22pm | 31/12/10

@Tiny timmy - I wasn’t going to bother but even just scanning your rant I can’t let your complete silliness slide unchallenged. In response to your ridiculous summation:

1. Misquoting someone and then attacking that misquote is not a valid form of argument, as you well know. Scrambling for credibility after the fact by cherry picking actual words and mispresenting their context, intention or meaning looks sad and desperate but isn’t an argument either.

2. The fact that I have commented on articles and not taken the right wing hive mind mentality doesn’t some how give you a reverse argument. At least not in this universe (what colour is the sky in your word btw). I am free to support either side or neither as I have done on numerous different occasions (which you’ve completely ignored in your cherry picking), you’ve only ever supported the hive. That’s the difference champ, and it’s a fairly typical right wing attitude to blindly and unthinkly support one side. It’s also one of the many reasons why I’m better than you. You clowns will blow each others….horns no matter how stupid your position is on any issue.

3. Randomly linking my comments as if that makes your point is a waste of your time and mine. You actually have to make a point to have one champ. Back to school for you.

4. “but I’m glad that the majority of people on this site can see through you at least. “

Fairly typical arrogant right wing wanker BS. You speak for everyone do you champ? I wonder how many fans you have outside of the pack genius?

Finally you’ve never posted an opinion on this site that’s been anything other than either a far right wing loony rant or to support such a rant or to rant at someone for picking holes in right wing loony rant.

You’ve repeatedly misrepresented what people have said so that you would actually have a point and as such you have NO credibility. But you have with your pack demonstrated my points about conservatives, their rhetoric, hive mentality, inability to think for themselves and the way they attack in packs, so thanks for giving me the knock out win on that.

I’m not bothering with your nonsense any further, so post what you like. It’s only going to be a rehash of your previous stupidity and not worth my time. You’re on your own boy. Rant on, rant on.
TimB says:

04:41pm | 31/12/10

@ Seano, For the last time, I didn’t attack the “quote”. I attacked the attitude. That’s still valid. You’re still hung up on the misquoting like it’s actually relevant.
Talk about missing the point.

And even when attempting to placate your insistence on exact quotes it’s still not good enough for you “It’s out of context!!” you wail. Bullshit.

None of your quotes are taken out of context. I’ve linked directly *to* the context. The “out of context” defense is rubbish when it comes from the likes of Sheik Al-Hilaly, and its rubbish when it comes from you.

And you continue to insist on tarring us all with the same brush. You assume you know my ALL my opinions. You’re wrong.

http://www.thepunch.com.au/articles/can-julia-gillard-be-believed-on-school-funding/#comment-181917

Sound like I’m falling into step with your imagined Liberal hive mind there? I have plenty of other opinions that don’t fit in with it either. They’re probably scattered around here somewhere. Things like the fact that I think the West Australian AG is a twat for sitting on R18+.

But I can’t be assed finding them all. Do your own research for a change. That’s where that “thinking for your self thing” that you think you’re so much better than me at comes into play.

Frankly I don’t care if I’ve cherrypicked your quotes. You’ve accused people of doing stuff and then claimed to be better than them because of it. I’ve come up with quotes of yours to prove you do the exact same things. I don’t need 10 quotes or 20 or 50 or even 100 to prove that. I only need one.

Here’s the facts. Half the things you accuse Conservatives of you’re 100% guilty of yourself. The other half are sweeping generalisations you have, with nothing to back them up beyond your own preconcieved assumptions & biased opinions.

You are not “better” than conservatives. More arrogant yes, better no. (Kind of ironic for someone who loves to throw the meaningless “born to rule” phrase around- more sterling originality from you btw).

As for not knowing the opinions of everyone here…no, but I know the opinions of those who actually bother responding to you.
And whilst yes raw numbers have nothing to do with who is actually right, it still gives me a warm fuzzy feeling to see more people share my far more realistic opinion of you as opposed to the puffed up fantasy self-image you’ve concoted for yourself.

As for you not reading my post….Yup just like you wern’t going to read the other one I’m sure.
Northern Steve says:

01:57am | 03/01/11

Hey Tim, advice - don’t feed the troll, he’ll just come back for more.
- Servaas says:
  
  08:44pm | 29/12/10
  
  I disagree with my parents on so many issues and have voted different to them in the past - they stuck with their old party while I, seeing that it was my first election went totally controversial in my vote and voted for the ‘enemy’. It is now 6 years and another election further and I might be voting for a different party to the ones I voted for in the previous two elections once again. But that is South Africa and politics many times resemble sports - you stick with your favourite ‘team’ even though they have been losing (as in increasing poverty and chaos such as our ANC government has been doing) for years on end now.
  
  Were we Australian voters we would most likely vote the same in what is a much less complex political scene with only a few major (rational) parties going at it. That would be partly because I’ve been brought up in my parent’s home and therefore have been majorly been influenced by their way of looking at the world - an undeniable reality. We do disagree on the fundamentals of life in many ways but we would still think similarly politically.
  
  I would say many voters like to break the mold, as I did in my previous elections as a voter, and hope that this time a different approach would work but it never does.
  
  Liberal is always the dream of reaching something better but it never seems to deliver and then they float back to conservative for safety.
  
  Reply
- Chase Stevens says:
  
  09:13pm | 29/12/10
  
  How do you define Conservative? Because to me Conservative means an unwillingness to accept changing social and economic norms. Which incidentally could be explained by an increased likelyhood of feeling anxiety etc.
  
  Reply
Servaas says:

02:41am | 30/12/10

I might agree with you on the economic bit but no government should adapt according to the public’s view of what is socially normal (if that is what you meant by social norms). Governments should govern according to obvious moral standards and a good secular government should apply standards which protects its citizens and the national community as a whole.
- Louis says:
  
  09:50pm | 29/12/10
  
  I grew up on a farm (for a few years… 12). I cared little for politics until after I left school. The first time I voted I’d been in the city for a few years. I voted for put simply “not labor” and “not green” which worked out to be a liberal candidate and nationals in the senate. I come from a family that was involved (to say the most?) with the nationals. I left school knowing only what I had picked up in class. The ALP could do no wrong. However, I did not and still do not believe my family to be a bunch of fools. I essentially did not have any understanding of the opinions I knew. This led to a vote as above. However, at school I had an awesome modern history teacher (he literally wrote the book). I absorbed so much in that subject particularly the makings of the USA. I still avidly follow the journeys of past and present USA.
  I went to university at QUT where I was not involved at all. I’d not attend for 3 weeks or more. So nothing political went on there. I did a bit of labouring while at uni and then full time after I stopped my uni degree after receiving four 4s. To put simply the union guys were lazy and a bunch of pricks who cared not about their job, workplace or co-workers. They were only interested in themselves, their hourly rate and breaks. I’d love to see them in a farming situation or even a DIY project around the house. I’m still trying to get my super out of TWU Super. It has been a struggle. I did not have much time for unions at that stage and still don’t.
  I then re-entered uni at USC. Two of the subjects required were introduction to environmental studies and introduction to Australian politics. Coming from a farm I was outraged at the anti-farm propaganda in the environmental studies subject and in the politics subject I could not understand the love for Mr Rudd considering how little he had achieved. The tutor for the politics subject was extremely knowledgeable about politics and surprisingly far fairer than most news pieces in papers and on TV. He did follow the ALP very closely though. Much like the history of the USA I started following Australian politics a bit closer.
  I also stopped that degree and started a plumbing apprenticeship. However, I used my time to read on the internet. The more I was reading the more outraged I was. Anti-farm propaganda is out of control. This then led me down the path of further investigating other polices from all parties who had got it so wrong about agriculture. The result was that in Australia almost all parties seem to hate the individual and particularly the individual who is a farmer/land owner/business owner. No party seems to have it “perfect” for me. It seems to be a case of voting for least worse. However, at this stage my opinion is my own and may I forever disagree with my parents. My opinions are my own and I will stand by them… until I’m not. I still get very annoyed when my opinion is “wrong”. Never mind that I’ve done the hard yards to come to my own conclusion or that the case presented by the one opposing seems to be empty mantra or perpetuated make believe. As you can tell the do-gooders haven’t quite beat the spirit out of me yet. They’ll get there though. It’s pretty much already a fight lost as they have most media and most educations facilities (primary, secondary and tertiary). I guess one just waits for our own Obama to show everyone the true “light” so we can enjoy a swift shift back to individualism.
  
  Reply
- Greg says:
  
  10:13pm | 29/12/10
  
  So what about the people who despise both the conservatives and the progressives? People who can actually think for themselves and don’t choose the “lessor of two evils”, just because they think that they are the only choices?
  
  People who are brave enough to stick to their principles despite overwhelming opposition, yet are under no illusions about a rapidly decaying society?
  
  Reply
- Duke says:
  
  10:18pm | 29/12/10
  
  Whether or not there is a biological basis to one’s political views, there are certainly certain psychological qualities associated with right wing folks. I’d encourage lefties and righties alike to read this excellent study on authoritarian personalities. It’s long, it’s based on reasonably good research and it’s well written for the layperson. It contains many things that should resonate - both with those afflicted by an authoritarian streak and those who want to pin point what it is that makes some people harsh in their world view and their politics.
  The left/right divide is a bit redundant in all this discussion. There are those that want more state control in areas of economics and those that want more state control in our personal lives. There are those that have a generous, compassionate outlook, and those that are more inclined to be stingy. Those that welcome change and those who don’t. What’s most interesting is a persons motives and basic inclinations for having these positions.
  http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~altemey/
  
  Reply
- Peter Pecker says:
  
  10:28pm | 29/12/10
  
  My parents were strong Labor supporters as was I until I eventually grew up and could see what a bunch of dangerous no hopers Labor and the Greens are. They will never get my vote again.
  
  Reply
- Nigel Manton - Rice says:
  
  10:35pm | 29/12/10
  
  Mrs.Thatcher pulled Britain up by it’s boot straps.It has since gone to the dogs once Labour returned to Government.
  
  Reply
Ryan says:

04:53pm | 31/12/10

@Nigel Manton - Rice: and it’s like a replay here in Aus, I guess some people can’t learn from other peoples mistakes.
- MarK says:
  
  10:48pm | 29/12/10
  
  No real idea who my parents voted for. I would guess the Libs but no real certainty.
  
  My wife has zero interest in politics and votes for the Greens because she like whales. I don’t try to convince her otherwise.
  
  Each to their own.
  
  Reply
- Ryan says:
  
  11:38pm | 29/12/10
  
  The difference between being a leftie commie and a conservative? Actual life experience.
  
  Reply
Rocket Surgeon says:

01:13pm | 30/12/10

So “Actual” life experience makes one a leftie commie? Is it possible to have a “fake” life experience?
- Scared Lefty says:
  
  12:37am | 30/12/10
  
  I am a pinko commie lefty, but am incredibly anxious and easy to startle so I ain’t buying the research either
  
  Reply
- Gladys says:
  
  07:37am | 30/12/10
  
  My father voted for Whitlam and said during the East Timor senate inquiry in 1999, that he regretted it every day afterwards.
  
  His justification was he couldn’t vote for McMahon and I agree that’s fair enough.
  
  I didn’t vote for Keating in 1993 despite not being a huge Hewson fan, because I didn’t want a life filled with regret.
  
  Reply
- Joan of Adel says:
  
  08:43am | 30/12/10
  
  Started life voting for The Communist Party, then The Greens, then the ALP and, in my child-less middle age, the Coalition (unless Xenophon is on the ticket). So I have to agree with Tory that this is a crock. I find that most people do not follow politics at all (too lazy, perhaps?) and do seem to get their ideas on who they should be voting for from other people who may or may not be objective in their spiels. It’s usually people they look up to (rightly or wrongly), which I think is sad. People who don’t follow politics closely should not be forced to vote. The number of people that don’t seem to realise that a vote for The Greens assists the ALP to form government, is amazing to me still. Is Nick Xenophon the only one who splits his preferences to the two majors down the middle?
  
  Reply
- Bronte Gale says:
  
  09:05am | 30/12/10
  
  When I was 18 I was a left wing radical (and my parents were right wing conservatives). Now I am 36, married with four children and travel the world for my work I am a member of the Liberal Party.
  
  Reply
- Kate says:
  
  11:30am | 30/12/10
  
  I’m not a conservative, but I vote liberal. Because I believe that the core liberal philosophy as defined on their website (or the dictionary for that matter) is the most progressive. “Individual Freedom, and free enterprise”.
  Everyone I know votes liberal. I really don’t understand why anyone would vote Labor. I am an analytical person, with a university degree who works in business. I am well-read and concur with the simple efficieny of a free market economy improving the lives of the rich and the poor. Socialism does work sometimes, but the cost of it working, is the individual freedom to persue opportunity. This is why I vote liberal (and because I hate the inefficiency of big-governments) - even though I am a bleeding heart at times. I resent below the belt attacks against liberal voters, in my circle we give careful consideration to the formation of our views. We are not red-necks, xenophobic, fear driven, or predisposed to negativity. Well that is not my experience.
  
  Reply
James Hunter says:

02:36pm | 30/12/10

You hate the inefficiency of big government? What about the greed of big business ? A free world economy is like a table full of poker players. at the beginning of the evening they all have $100(say) at the end of the evening there is still the exact amount of money but one player will have nearly all of it. Karl Marx said “from each to his ability and to each according to his needs. sounds like the tennant of most religions do unto others as you would have them do unto you (the golden rule) Only people who prefer to see the rich take from the poor are inductrialists, big business and the sheriff of notingham !!
The Liberal Party in this country is not Liberal it is Conservative.
- James Hunter says:
  
  01:57pm | 30/12/10
  
  Never have voted as my parents did.
  I made a conscious decission to always look at all the social issues and make a decision based on what is on offer with a particular focus on the long term.
  
  Reply
- Barry says:
  
  12:59pm | 03/01/11
  
  Tory, it’s called common sense and a behaviourist fear of the known - i.e. the dog who has been repeatedly beaten by its master tends to shy away after a while.
  
  Reply

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