As someone who has worked as an accountant or financial analyst for most of the last couple of decades, including in the mining sector, I have been watching the debate about the mining resources super profit tax with some bemusement. People like me understand tax and why businesses make – or don’t make – investment decisions. It is becoming disturbingly apparent that ordinary punters are not getting the information they need to make a reasonable assessment about the merits of this proposal.

Your delivery of misleading statements has arrived. Pic: AAP / File

Frankly, there is a lot of nonsense being talked at present.

Firstly, you can discount almost everything that has been written by journalists, since virtually none of them seem to know anything about business or economics. Most appear to be simply regurgitating other people’s words. I put most business and economics writers into this category, by the way.

Secondly, put a big red line through everything said by any economist, and I include Ken Henry here. Economists operate in a world dictated to by assumptions, most of which don’t actually exist in the real world. People in commerce don’t have that luxury, much to their annoyance.

Thirdly, the Government should be ignored entirely. It wants more tax revenue and to actually achieve something before the election.  Moreover, it doesn’t seem to me like many people in the Labor Party have much experience in business, so they are more likely to trust the opinions of the economists in the Treasury rather than be able to use their own knowledge and experience (see point 2).

Finally, the big cheeses in the mining industry probably do understand the tax and its effects and certainly understand how to make business investments. However, those making the most noise in the mining companies are the CEOs and Board Chairs of the major mining companies. That is, your average neo-conservative with a visceral and rather irrational hatred of Government and, most particularly, taxation, which they equate to Marxism (refer Twiggy Forrest and Clive Palmer). These miners, therefore, aren’t ignorant, but are quite deliberately obfuscating and misleading the public for their own ends in a massively well funded public spin campaign.

Let’s start with the miners and their spin. The most absurd piece came the other day from Terry Burgess, the head of Oz Minerals, who gave a press conference in which he bemoaned the complexity of the tax. He said “...there would be at least another set of books needed to [account for the] resource tax on top of the tax accounting and the financial accounting [books] we [currently] do”.

I had a vision of a crusty old accountant hauling a green coloured ledger book from the bottom cupboard and blowing the dust off it when I heard this. Back in reality, the mining tax is not that complicated, and certainly not when it’s compared with the capital gains and fringe benefits taxes, amongst others. Yes, it will be an added complication, but the Australia tax system is all about complexity and, frankly, bosses like Burgess couldn’t give a damn about accountants when they structure their opaque and massively sophisticated transactions and market manoeuvres, so why should it matter to them now?

In reality, the resources tax has been discussed for as long as I have I have been doing accounting, so it would not have come as a surprise to anyone in the profession.  It is a no-brainer that miners should be paying a fair share back to the owners – i.e. us – for the profits they are making from digging up and selling these non-renewable resources. The problem the Government has is that the tax was designed by an economist, Ken Henry, who doesn’t seem to understand how business makes investment decisions.

When the miners say that making 6% the level when the tax should kick in is too low, they are dead right. No company that I have ever worked for, and certainly no mining company – where the risks and rewards are greater – would contemplate a project where the return on investment (ROI) was as low as 6%. Every major company these days does extensive financial modelling and if that model showed that an investment is likely to only return 6% it would never get off, or rather out of, the ground. In mining, the minimum ROI would need to be 10%, and more likely 12% to be worth the considerable risks miners incur.

Thus, to qualify as “super” profits, a much higher ROI would need to be specified for it not to be a disincentive. It is no accident that the petroleum resources rent tax is set at 11%.

The Government says that these risks are ameliorated under the operation of the tax through another feature of it, where those projects that return less than 6% see the Government handing back 40% of the costs. The first point to make here is that anything that encourages a business to fail or under-perform is poor policy. It is an active disincentive to strive. No businessman goes into business to fail, or underperform, and would look at this element of the tax with utter disdain.

It is, in a sense, protectionism, like a tariff barrier, and goes abruptly counter to accepted modern free market principles. Moreover, as an accountant, this sort of scheme has a big red “tax loophole” flag all over it. It is the sort of thing that would inevitably be used and abused by sharp accountants to minimise tax, one way or another.

Another area where the Government and the Treasury seemed to show a lack of understanding was in not realising, or acknowledging, the way the tax would impact on cash-flow and have downstream effects therefrom, especially their ability to raise debt capital and satisfy existing debt covenants. Cash flow is very important in business. Even though many mining companies are incredibly profitable at the moment, they don’t just put their money in the bank and use that to fund future projects. What they do is set their cash-flow against existing debt and use any increases in their expected cash flows to fund more debt and greater expansion.

Banks look closely at cash flow to determine whether to stump up debt capital and in working out what interest rate they will charge for it. Things like the resources tax impact cash flow, making it more difficult and expensive to raise and service debt capital. In the case of border-line projects, lower cash to debt ratios can cause companies to breach their debt covenants, which can be very nasty indeed.

On the other hand, the tax is not going to come in until 2012, so that gives the mining companies plenty of time to adjust their debt servicing commitments and renegotiate with banks. It might mean that a few projects don’t go ahead, but they would only be risky ventures anyway, so on balance probably wouldn’t have much noticeable effect on the economy. Nevertheless, it would have been tactful and sensible for the Government to recognize that this cash-flow aspect would have some impact upon the industry.

One thing that business has been honest about is that until the final details of the tax are confirmed much investment in mining will be delayed, because the financial models the miners use to analyse investments will be incomplete and therefore of little value. All talk of scrapping projects, however, is nonsense.

In summary, the tax was poorly designed from the outset, though the basic idea of miners paying a reasonable amount for the resources they dig up is sound and, indeed, should be implemented. The mining companies have some valid concerns, but they have muddied the waters by disingenuously launching the mother of all scare campaigns that has oversold the impact upon themselves and the economy. 

The Government has shown scant understanding of business concerns and has shown that they are, like Gerry Harvey says, “bloody amateurs” when it comes to dealing with business. Unless the Government shows some common sense soon, and corrects the poor features of the tax, it may be voted out at the next election, meaning we may never see a resources tax in Australia, which would be a shame.

116 comments

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    • Ziggy says:

      06:33am | 15/06/10

      Well explained. - should be tatooed on to every pollies forehead.So their colleagues can read it!
      My whole life has been spent in the world of finance and investment and David has spelt out the realities in simple terms. The other major point is that all investors hate uncertainty and Rudd has now introduced this dangerous element into the investment mix.We are all paying the price.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      09:09am | 16/06/10

      Right on Ziggy !  The Rudd government hitched it’s wagon to the Henry star of assumptions and rolled into town with the idea that the mining industry worked on assumptions , just like Ken Henry , wouldn’t it be lovely. ?
      Everyone will feel the pain of falling investment in a world where profit is seen by the government of the day to be unacceptable.

    • stuart says:

      08:40pm | 16/06/10

      Wayne clearly didnt read the article.

      The miners should pay increased taxes, and if the 6% baseline is increased, the tax rate should also be increased to make up for it.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      01:30pm | 18/06/10

      Stuart :  For your information , yes , i did read the article Stuart.
      Incidently , the mining industry has already indicated that it is willing to pay more tax , but not on the Rudd scale designed without consultation
      or negotiation .  The outcome can only be reduced investment in resourses as the risk will no longer be offset by a fair profit.
      Stuart , the vultures start circling at the mention of profit , the division of which is subject to taxation right down the line , maybe you can see your way clear to put up some capital risk to even out the mess made by P.M. Rudd.

    • Brad of Bentleigh says:

      11:01pm | 22/06/10

      Well explained, but with a pro Government slant, and so, being partisan, was a waste of time reading.

      Twiggy Forrest - ” your average neo-conservative with a visceral and rather irrational hatred of Government” - or, the biggest donator and friend of the ALP?

      I know of know investments that would get off the ground (particularly mining, given the massive start up costs) for a 10% ROI, you have got to be kidding! Who would risk such capitol on a louosy 10 point return? Noone I can think of. You sure you worked for mining companies like you say you did, David?

    • John A Neve says:

      06:53am | 15/06/10

      A number of issues here, firstly our taxation system is overly complex and a simplification of the taxation system is sorely needed.

      Secondly the proposed tax would give the Australian pople a much fairer return on the nations resources.

      Lastly, most of the comments to date have been made by uninformed people or politically biased individuals.

      Time to look closely at a Financial Debits Tax.

    • acker says:

      11:04am | 15/06/10

      I don’t mind the miners being taxed more, it makes sense to take more of the profits some of which goes overseas. But I am against the notion of taxing regional resources and redistributing that wealth to overpopulated cities. Regional Australia needs to get a set share of this tax.

    • coldsnacks says:

      03:20pm | 15/06/10

      The Henry Review was supposed to simplify the system…but that suggestion was tossed out the window, along with 135 and a half of it’s mates.

    • Darryl Price says:

      05:45pm | 15/06/10

      John, a naive.
      Fairness rather than commercial good sense as a basis for a tax?
      If only I could be as politically unbiased as yourself, then I would be informed rather than uninformed.
      Perhaps you can inform me as to what will happen when the states increase royalties - which they continue to be able to do - given that royalty increases from this point forward will not be deducted from super tax payable, and the effective tax rate will increase yet again.
      As to “fairness” (there it is again), why not tax everyone in Australia who earns more than the average weekly wage 40% of their super profit. I’m joking - whilst it would be “fair” (snicker) that idea would be about as stupid as financial debits tax or financial transaction tax or national debits tax or whatever. Time to look closely alright - and laugh.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      10:54am | 16/06/10

      Coldsnacks :  The number of seats in the cities will scuttle Regional Australia’s chances of a fair share of any RSPT .  Labor always spends our taxpayers money where they can gain the most seats

    • John A Neve says:

      12:41pm | 16/06/10

      Darryl Price,
      You could never be as “politically unbiased” as myself. Your political biase is blatant.
      Now tell us all, do you really think our taxation sytem in corporates “fairness”?
      Do you not believe are taxation system could be better?
      Lastly, do you think at all?

    • Darryl Price says:

      09:42am | 17/06/10

      John Oh Naivete’,
      If I dot point these will it help?
      - do you have an answer to my royalties question?
      - my belief on the incorporation of fairness in the tax system is comprehensively answered in my last but I’ll bring it down for you - “fairness” as an argument is only for the sharing of birthday cakes and Tim Tams.
      - our taxation system could be better. It should be a living, breathing, dynamic system, responding to change. I would like to see a comprehensive and non party political review completed where the findings weren’t secret for months, and the outcome was not a proposal (with some after-the-money-has-been-allocated-through-the-budget-estimates-consultation) to adopt 3% of the suggestions, of which one item is an increased tax applied to a single industry, with some relief for other areas, and some coin left over.
      - lastly if you can’t answer the questions posed, resist gems like “do you think at all”. What I do think is that the moderators will tire of this and we won’t get published. Try witty repartee. Call me Half Price or something else original.

    • David Donovan says:

      02:02pm | 24/06/10

      Yes, @Brad, I definitely did work for a mining company, Downer EDI Mining to be precise (note my bio). I stick by my (admittedly conservative) estimate for minimum ROI necessary for mining investment.

      I am also not partisan. Actually, I am on record as being anti-partisan politics: http://www.onlineopinion.com.au/view.asp?article=10532. I am a bit surprised by your viewpoint, is was noticeable, I thought, that even though I had a dig at economists, journalists and fat-cats, I was silent on the Opposition…

    • WKH says:

      06:55am | 15/06/10

      We will see a resources tax in this country and justifiably so… just not the knee jerk one put in place by this knee jerk government…..or is that a government run by a jerk…..

    • Harriet says:

      08:55am | 15/06/10

      WKH the other jerk,  Abbott, says with his last breath he will reject the super profits tax.  So who will “justifiably” implement the resources tax for you?

    • Tony says:

      04:22pm | 15/06/10

      Loved this responce I would say both of your points apply.

    • Against the Man says:

      07:18am | 15/06/10

      Expecting the government to show common sense is going to be an endless wait. We need new government, any new government to show the current twits that they can’t get away with incompetence. Rudd has failed.

    • Super D says:

      09:37am | 15/06/10

      Spot on.  The first thing that must be demanded of any government is competence.  Its no point having great visions if you make a pigs breakfast of implementing them.

    • John A Neve says:

      09:50am | 15/06/10

      A the M,
      Just what has your post to do with this issue?
      Do you agree or disagree with the article or maybe you do not understand it?
      Come on A the M, you are not lost for words, are you?

    • Press says:

      08:12am | 15/06/10

      This piece has some interesting things to say, but (ahem) undermined by some pretty glaring nonsense of its own.

      An accountant playing “holier than thou” about economists might be quite funny,  if the whole thing wasn’t so important.

      “put a big red line through everything said by any economist”
      Why? ‘cos they make assumptions - the cheapest joke to beat up economics with, and doen’t help us with this proposal at all.

      Accountants, on his argument, are practical fellows in the “real world” industriously totting up the numbers Hmmm. Right. The fellers keeping the books of Bond Corp, Skase, Enron, HIH, Goldman Sachs and etc on the straight and narrow then. Yep, plainly much better at their “real world” jobs than those economists.

      Still, he’s an accountant. Only natural for him to see his mob in the best light. But how is he in the “real world” on detail? 

      Here he is on Return on Investment
      “no mining company ... would contemplate a project where the return on investment (ROI) was as low as 6%.”
      Well, perhaps. But did you see the three card trick there? He’s making out that the mining tax will suck up all returns above   6%. It won’t. That’s a pretty cute assumption right there. The ROI will be 6% (or maybe 7%) *plus* 40% of profits above that - after rebates for royalties, and rebates for losses, and all the other usual deductions etc.

      And again: “Government handing back 40% of the costs”. Err no. Cute lash up, but no. Firstly, its not costs - its losses. Secondly, they’re not “handed back” - no cheque. Losses accumulate as a credit to rebate against future profits tax.

      So that’s accountants for you. Pile up assumptions and present numbers that suit you -  and hope no-one notices their relationship to the facts is faint.  Bit like Barnaby Joyce, really.

    • Andrew says:

      09:46am | 15/06/10

      As a Chartered Accountant, even a Fellow, I was about to compose something similar, but you said it all

    • Steph says:

      10:18am | 15/06/10

      I think the point re ROI is that no one invests in something that has a projected ROI of 6% or lower in mining.  By that definition, all mining projects are operating at a “super profit” level, and so the tax doesn’t just go after the “big fat cats” but after every single mining operation in Australia.

    • Tom says:

      11:11am | 15/06/10

      Steph, you forget that the replacement of the royalties scheme means that some miners will actually pay less tax. The RSPT is a fairer scheme than royalties as it only kicks in once profits are being made, as opposed to the royalties scheme which taxes all mining. It also redresses the fact that due to greatly increasing commodity prices, the share of mining profits being taxed has fallen greatly in the past 10 years. Surely as profits increase, so should tax?

      Just as an aside, I think this quote sums up the scheme reasonably well:
      “Well basically, what that’s going to do is lighten the tax burden on the less profitable projects. It will actually spread the base around which effective investment can take place. This is actually an incentive to the sector, not a detriment.”
      DAVID BUCKINGHAM – EX CEO MINERALS COUNCIL

    • ?? says:

      11:21am | 15/06/10

      Nice response, except isn’t there an error here:
      ” The ROI will be 6% (or maybe 7%) *plus* 40% of profits above that - after rebates for royalties, and rebates for losses, and all the other usual deductions etc. “

      If the tax is 40% of profits above 6%, isn’t the ROI “6% plus 60% of profits…” Alternatively am I still in long weekend mode?

      In either case you are right, 6% is not the real number. You are right about costs vs losses and the rebate offsets

    • Press says:

      12:04pm | 15/06/10

      ?? is right.  For some reason, my own almost immdediate post pointing out my typo has not appeared.

      Fact is, corrected for my typo, the author’s blunder is worse.

    • Ziggy says:

      09:01am | 16/06/10

      @Andrew - My goodness! Back to your study books.Anyone who dismisses ‘share of profits’ as somehow not part of ROI is clearly an economist. Yet you see nothing wrong with that logic?

    • watchingwithinterest says:

      08:16am | 15/06/10

      This whole tax mess is because Mr Rudd and Co fail to consult or to take any advice that they don’t like. They spent millions on the Henry Tax Review and then instead of putting the paper out there so that it could be commented upon, it decided to release a “response to the Henry Review” which included recommendations dreamed up by Rudd & Co and not from the Henry Review.  A government with this attitude will never to be able to successfully implement policy

    • Paul says:

      08:16am | 15/06/10

      At last, someone who understands and can explain the issue, instead of all the dribble from mining company big wigs and stupid politicians.

    • David says:

      08:18am | 15/06/10

      Another example of political bias affecting a decision to be made for the benefit of all .
      This country could do with a decent government that does not rely on the old hackneyed labour/liberal blind following .
      Vote for the Greens and at least we will get legal pot to ease the pain . [ only joking ]

    • Charity Doctor says:

      08:21am | 15/06/10

      There seems to be at least two different groups of economists in Treasury. Mr Rudd’s government recently increased the tax on cigarettes to disuade smokers from smoking - but they claim that increasing the taxation on mining profits will not disuade investment in mining? Please explain!

    • Press says:

      10:12am | 15/06/10

      Expain? Sure.

      Doctor is aiming to mislead. He’s trying to compare chalk and cheese, then complain they don’t taste the same.

      Smoking - personal choice for own consumption, at marginal cost to consumer bar health.

      Mining -  non-renewable national resource, used by companies whose purpose is to mine for profit, taxed on growing profits after rebates etc

      Totally different things. Sloppy attempt at spin.  Naughty Doctor!

    • Bruce says:

      10:33am | 15/06/10

      This is the beauty of economic theory, there is the basics then you can make most additional data dance and tell you want you want to hear !!

    • AC says:

      02:20pm | 15/06/10

      Press, Doctor’s point is that both taxes should have the same effect, that is - reduce demand. Common sense and absolute basic economics. Get off your high horse

    • Press says:

      02:53pm | 15/06/10

      AC wants you to think that international demand for coal, iron ore, gas and etc is the same as personal demand for cigarettes. He’s talking nonsense. Sounds good though, eh, as it flits by.

    • AC says:

      03:30pm | 15/06/10

      Press, the laws of supply and demand apply to mineral ores as well as cigarettes, however elasticity of supply and demand will be different. And I’m not talking about demand for the ores themselves, I’m talking about demand for investments in Australia. Go back to school and take economics 101 before commenting further and making a fool of yourself.

    • persephone says:

      08:25am | 16/06/10

      AC

      given that mining companies make about 10% more in Australia than they do in other countries, there’s a lot of elasticity out there.

    • Steve_of_Cornubia says:

      08:42am | 15/06/10

      I can’t argue with this,since I don’t really understand all of it. It does seem balanced though.

      However, I think we should note that the mining industry has acknowledged taxation of mining should be better designed. They only launched their own propaganda campaign because the tax is poorly designed and they were ambushed by Rudd without proper consultation, i.e. the usual Rudd “My way or the highway” approach.

    • dead to me says:

      08:45am | 15/06/10

      With the whole mining tax issue up in the air and Julia Gillard being rumored to take over, it all seems very disturbing. If the PM doesn’t have the confidence of his own party, it makes me worried of what else they know about Mr Rudd they are not telling us.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      11:28am | 15/06/10

      Dead to Me,

      He does have the confidence of his own party, he just doesn’t have the confidence of the mischievous media. There’s no story in the leader having the backing of his cabinet but there is a story if you can print assumptions our the leadership.

    • taxing times says:

      09:01am | 15/06/10

      As someone with years of experience in tax law and tax accounting (including in the mining and resources industry) I too find the reactions amusing and frustrating.

      What this basically amounts to is a lot of bleating and whining from people who already make billions because it might mean they each make a few hundred million less (and give it back to the society that owns it) but still make billions.

      Yes it may mean that some investment decisions are favoured over others but I’m not going to feel sorry for someone who is now going to make $4.5b as opposed to $5b.

    • Adam Diver says:

      09:59am | 15/06/10

      Whilst I don’t care for executive salaries etc, you make one really big, and sorry to say, stupid assumption.

      Paying more tax does not give more to society, it gives more to governments, to misdirect, waste, blunder and destroy. Don’t think increased government revenue means better outcomes for citizens.

    • persephone says:

      11:05am | 15/06/10

      That was certainly true under Howard, Adam, one of the biggest taxing governments we’ve seen, who wasted it on middle class welfare, but it’s not true of this government.

      Rudd has clearly allocated the money raised from this tax to the following areas:

      * reducing company tax to 28%;
      * an infrastructure fund, with an emphasis on providing needed infrastructure to mining states;
      *about 1/3 of the package will go back to mining companies, by supporting exploration and development;
      *changes to superannuation (other than the increased employers contribution) ;
      *removal of tax on interest.

      I would be interested in your explanation of why these don’t give more to society or provide better outcomes for citizens.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      11:45am | 15/06/10

      Almost every government we’ve ever had in this country has been the biggest taxing government in our history.  No, I’m not trying to justify Howard’s disgraceful middle class welfare for working families (oops, I mean ‘battlers’), I’m just trying to put his tax and spend agenda in perspective.

    • MenarefromMars says:

      12:20pm | 15/06/10

      @persephone

      “Features versus benefits” is Marketing 101.

      Please spare us.

      Why don’t you try to sell the benefits of 40% government ownership of all mining projects?

      RSPT is not a TAX people!
      http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2010/s2912736.htm

    • Arnold says:

      12:40pm | 15/06/10

      Persephone, I will respond to your claims item by item:

      * Since you have referred to Howard, I should point out that company tax went from 36% to 30% when he was in government.
      * In theory, the infrastructure fund is a good idea, which I may support.  I do have hesitations however regarding Labor’s ability to administer any such scheme (both at federal and state - BER and NSW Labor spring to mind).
      * Are you referring to the 40% guarantee on losses?  Do you honestly think that such a policy promotes efficient exploration or business practices?  In reality, it is another way of taking from the profitable mining companies and giving to the inefficient ones.  What is with Labor governments encouraging mediocrity?
      * What changes are you referring to besides the increase in SGC levels?  Are you referring to the increasing contribution caps?  If so, were you aware that it was the Rudd government that reduced the caps to the level they are now, so that those under 50 can only put $25,000 per year into superannuation before being slugged 46.5% tax?  Now tell me, does this government really want people to put more money into superannuation, or does it just want votes?
      * Tax on interest earnings is not being removed, it is being reduced.  Stop telling lies.

      You always claim that Howard taxed more than any other government in history, but you never refer to the level of Labor debt that had to be serviced when he inherited government from Keating. 

      Anyway, regardless of the debt, could you imagine how much more could have been taken by Howard if corporate and individual tax rates were not reduced (look it up - especially from 2000 onwards) and SGC levels not increased.  Now add an extra 40% of mining profits on top of that and maybe, just maybe, a Labor government could run a surplus…

      As for you “taxing times”, I weep for your clients.  As an accountant, you should know that 40% of 5 billion dollars is not anywhere close to 500 million dollars, unless they are only realising an 8% return on investment (under the current scheme).  What company is realistically going to invest 60 billion dollars worth of assets to generate a return of only 8%?  You could park the money in a managed fund and generate those returns with less risk (and also less tax now).

      You should also understand the opportunity cost of money and how an additional 40% expense is going to impact on financial decisions made by multinational corporations.  After all, whilst these companies do have billions available to invest, they do not have a bottomless pit of money to draw on.  Hopefully you can then follow that through to what impact it will have on the rest of Australia.

    • taxing times says:

      01:18pm | 15/06/10

      @Adam

      Money being sent overseas that was generated from digging non-reneweable resources out of the ground does nothing for Australia.

      Taxing super profits, or anything else, will do something for the country.

      Whether you agree with the government’s usage of that money doesn’t really matter. I don’t agree with babay bonuses eiher, but that is beside the point.

      The fact is, the money stays here, might be spent in an Australian shop, will add to the local demand and fuels the loacal economy.

      That is what is beneficial for all

    • Macca says:

      02:23pm | 15/06/10

      @Taxing Times; what exactly do you mean by “money being sent overseas”?

      Would you prefer Foreign Owners did not invest in Australia?

    • taxing times says:

      04:08pm | 15/06/10

      @macca

      There is little point to money coming in and then going back out.

      We should be taking a slice of that money for ourselves to invest in our own country. Similar to what happens with Fund Payments and new tax rates being applied to them.

      A foreign company that comes into Australia, takes our resources to sell overseas at ridiculous profits and then sends those profits back overseas doesn’t do a great deal for us. Getting a slice of that should be an imperative for the Australian people especially since we’ll never be able to sell those resources again.

    • taxing times says:

      04:15pm | 15/06/10

      @arnold

      Do you really think mining companies are going to walk away from Australia and the rich profits of the mining game just because they have to pay a slightly higher rate of tax?

      I can certainly tell you that after CGT, FBT, GST etc were introduced this didn’t make all companies run screaming from the country.

      I am reminded of a cartoon that said the pigs weren’t going to walk away from the trough just because it was slightly smaller.

      You need to keep in mind that this isn’t a 40% tax on top of everything else. It’s just a tax on profit that is made on the sale of the goods. The effective rate of tax comes to about 58% which isn’t much higher than what they are paying now.

      and surely you could have realised that my $4.5b example was just that, an example, not something that was to be taken as gospel. It was just numbers plucked out of the air to illustrate my point. Which you failed to comprehend.

    • Arnold says:

      05:35pm | 15/06/10

      Taxing times, explain how 58% is close to what they are paying now.  A quick review of BHP’s annual statement shows that royalties paid in 2009 amounted to just over 4% of net profit.  Add that to 30% corporate tax and we get 34%.  How is that close to 58%?  Or as part of this scheme will payroll tax, FBT, fuel levies, etc. all be reimbursed as well?

      And of course these companies wont walk away forever.  They will just sit on them until commodity prices become so high, that pre-tax returns reach 30% and after tax returns become comparable with the rest of the world.  That will then make up for them forking out 58% to the government.  In the meantime, if they have 100 billions dollars to invest today, and after tax ROI’s in Canada equal 15% and Australia only 7.08%, where do you think they will put that money?  Corporations are perpetual and don’t care if the profit they make today is made in Australia or elsewhere. 

      FBT?  You don’t think that employers consider the FBT consequences when working out salary packages?  Do you really think that when offering to pay an employee a $100,000 salary package they don’t consider FBT, superannuation, etc.?  Of course they do.  So in effect, FBT is completely cash flow neutral for businesses.

      CGT is a tax imposed on every taxpayer in Australia.  Individual and corporate.  This is industry specific and patently unfair.

      GST is only levied on goods sold in Australia.  As these materials are exported, GST does not apply on their sales.  They do however get to claim their GST credits back on expenses.  Yeah, GST is a hard hitting tax on miners.

      Kevin Rudd also likes to pluck numbers from the air that makes everything seem much better than it really is.  It doesn’t make you look good, and I would warn against it in the future, because an*l accountants like me just have to nit pick.

    • Brad of Bentleigh says:

      11:29pm | 22/06/10

      I’m amazed that anyone thinks it’s OK for the government to take more than half of anyone’s enterprise, be they a miner or a garbage man… more than half! Even close to half is criminal.
      Let’s not forget the instant devaluation of every current mining venture in this country. All these are financed based on the system(s) in place, one can’t simply “announce” a fundamental change overnight, when that change has a negative, material impact on current (and future) operations, these guys are rank ameteurs. This tax and more importantly, the way it is [not] being handled, is inexcusable, this mob is not fit to hold government.
      This is just another point in the ever growing list of much caused by Rudd et al.

    • Greg says:

      10:18am | 23/06/10

      You do seem to be listening from a diufferent source persephone for the Howard government had taxation reductions implemented and some were actually followed through with by Krudd.
      But then he went Paris Hilton like.
      Have a look at where all this Super Tax is going to go [ your list ] and think again on how much of that will be middle class welfare.
      That which isn’t is going to go in to some fund or wherever oh yeah!
      Just another name for increased revenue and distribution to cover for his Paris trait.

    • Richard says:

      09:05am | 15/06/10

      This is a great example of no thinking things through. The current government has created uncertainty and lack of clarity now in both banking (especially funds management and financial planning) and mining, two of the great success stories of Australian industry, by changing the playing field that people are operating in - the bit which is breath taking is they seemed to expect nothing to happen.
      Almost every policy that this Government is running at the moment needs to have there words inserted into it ” and then all of a sudden a miracle happened…” its like there is no one thinking through what happens from start to finish and if the party aren’t careful from here they will become a one term government and be able to do little to drive this nation forward..

    • ZZP says:

      09:09am | 15/06/10

      This article articulates well what I have long said (within my own microcosm):

      *The kick in % is too low.
      *The method of underwriting 40% of the risk is a waste. Mining companies go into business to mine (ie. take risks), they don’t need the government to hold their hand.
      * The consultation and informative process was… as Gerry Harvey says, amateurish.

      In an alternate universe, the government approached the mining industry in private with the wish to institute a profits based tax based around the PRRT. In this universe there was intense negotiation with the ultimate result being a tax that the mining companies did not vehemently oppose. Kevin Rudd would be in a very different situation.

    • Old Bloke says:

      09:10am | 15/06/10

      As the now retired but previously long term CFO of a mining company I agree with most of what David has to say.
      My Board of Directors would not even consider a capital development proposal if it did not forecast at least 15 to 20% return on investment AFTER tax, and I stress after tax.  That is one of the main reasons why this proposal is so fundamentally flawed in the real world of mining business. 
      At 6% why would anyone invest in any sort of business?

    • wayne1966 says:

      03:44pm | 16/06/10

      Well said Old Bloke.

      There are a lot of people on here who simply do not know what they are talking about, including tax accountants who have probably never held commercial roles and do not understand NPV, ROI and have never looked at DCF’s.

      I am a CPA with over 25 years’ commercial experience and I believe that this will kill future mining projects. They will have negative NPV’s at required hurdle rates (15% or more after tax).

    • Greg says:

      10:47am | 23/06/10

      Yes, also agree Old Bloke except I would agree with just some of what David had to say, most of it being rhetorical anyway.
      But politicians, treasurey officials, economists and accountants aside, it is not so much whether it is going to be 6% or 10% and whatever tax rate is proposed but what the effect on overall ROI is projected, that being something boards and Investment bankers will be looking at and there will always be a considerable risk margin for the unknown.
      Even comparing taxation rates currently paid to that proposed and as against what may occur in other countries is also of limited value if you do not fully understand alternative project cost structures.
      This is an attempt to make a revenue grab to cover for all the debt the government has racked up and for promises it continues to make and given that the mining companies may not immediately cease highly profitable operations it can be effective in the short term but for longer term expansion or new projects it will certainly be factored in by those who make international competitiveness decisions.
      As some have indicated, the sweetener of being able to accrue losses is laughable not just on what it could cost taxpayers if indeed it was at all considered an attraction to an investment but it would certainly be an attraction for some additional creative accounting, especially seeing as mining companies can have some massive international costs for ” expertise ” equipment and shipping not to mention management.

    • Willy Smith says:

      09:15am | 15/06/10

      The new mining taxes proposed by the labor govt would never have reached the pocket of the Australian people in any form.
      It is just another last ditch idea thought up by a desperate govt who have used every cent in their coffers and have produced nothing.
      Amateurs!
      The thing that irks me the most, when they are kicked out at the next election, they will all retire with a handsome package, regardless of the mining taxes! They can’t lose!

    • nosthow says:

      09:17am | 15/06/10

      Wow an expert in everything economics ! How clever are you David - lets dispense with the parliament and instal you instead! I think you will find David their is more to this than just cold hard economics. The Australian people deserve a slice of profits from what is their minerals being mined from the ground - period ! Amusing to see the mining industry ads saying they saved Australia from the GFC when in fact they actually sacked 17% of their staff ! The Rudd government saved Australia from the GFC not the mining industry - shame on these Billionaires to now lie and cry poor !

    • AFR says:

      02:54pm | 15/06/10

      The mining industry sacked workers faster than you could say “GFC”. Hardly saving us.

    • AdamC says:

      03:50pm | 15/06/10

      AFR - that is another half truth from the ALP spin machine (disguised as Ken Henry in this instance, I seem to recall). Yes, mining activity contracted sharply for a very small period of time. However, this analysis neglects mining’s benefit to the terms of trade, which assisted Australia greatly.

    • Paul Ellercamp says:

      09:20am | 15/06/10

      I held out hope that this piece would help me to a better understanding. But after para 4, where the writer said companies don’t have the luxury of assumptions, was followed by para 11, which said every miner does “extensive financial modelliing”, alarm bells rang. In the end, it’s just another piece that leaves me understanding no more than I did, a piece under the byline of an “accountant” who worked in the resources industry. It offered more but delivered little. A contribution to the debate, but not a special one, and not particularly insightful. what a pity. You all should read Verrender in the SMH last Wednesday. It delivered more, and he’s a financial journalist.

    • Pedant says:

      05:35pm | 15/06/10

      Hey Paul, you haven’t said why you didn’t like it, but you pompously dismiss it. Why were you holding out for anything? It isn’t like Donovan got paid for this article. Hey, didn’t you work for the Sydney Morning Herald with Verrender? Maybe you don’t like the fact Donovan has criticised journos?

    • thatmosis says:

      09:24am | 15/06/10

      All very nice and precise but that hasnt stopped a certain mining company stopping or downsizing their operations in Australia in the last few days. Explain to me why we should put up with this incompetant government while our Golden Goose flies to other countries and peoples hard earned super is whittled away while Gunna Krudd pontificates?????

    • Rebecca says:

      09:37am | 15/06/10

      Agree. We need tax reform desperately, but it needs to be done by people with enough ‘real-life’ experience to have some brains.

    • AdamC says:

      09:38am | 15/06/10

      David, good article. I think, in reality, most miners accept that, given the rise in commmodity prices, they will have to cop additional tax. That is likely to be a global phenomenon. In many ways the government’s mistake was that it didn’t talk to the miners and slapped this poorly-designed tax on them.

      On simplification, it would be nice, wouldn’t it? But, John A Never, you don’t simplify a system by adding to it, you simplify by taking it away.

    • Elphaba says:

      09:38am | 15/06/10

      Thanks for this article - clearly set out and much easier to understand than the hyperbole that’s been circulating of late.

    • DJ says:

      10:16am | 15/06/10

      Well stated and very balanced point of view. I have to say I usually click on the author’s profile before reading any Punch articles because of the obvious bias in many stories, which is a pity because it’s rapidly becoming a forum for those with an agenda.

    • Lyn says:

      10:17am | 15/06/10

      I have worked in the taxation industry for a long time, and it is nice to see someone take a forensic look at this proposed tax without the rose-coloured glasses of ideology clouding their vision. Back to the drawing table Kevin Rudd - onya Dave

    • Evan Findlay says:

      10:18am | 15/06/10

      I concur with most of your article David, although dismissing economists whilst praising accountants seems a bit flaky, but anyway, most of the article is to the point and is interesting reading.

      The point I most agree with and deserves more attention is that of your last sentence. Should there be a change of government at the next election and the RSPT is at the forefront of voters intentions to oust the Rudd government then it will set a dangerous precedent whereby governments or opposition parties, of either political persuasion, will simply ignore tax reform for fear of upsetting large corporations or sectional interest groups who will simply mount the mother of all fear campaigns in order to protect their bottom line. It is blatantly obvious that the mining industry is waging a campaign of mis- information, lies,  deceit and scaremongering. On the flipside we have a government that has failed to include the mining industry in a policy that is squarely aimed at them.

      If large corporations can overturn a government by lining the pockets of a political party, as they have done with the Liberal party, can peddle propaganda and subsequently squash policy to protect their profits once such political party is in power then it attacks the very foundations of our democracy. We are simply moving further and further towards the American system of politics where the people have very little influence on social and economic reform and large corporations dictate the agenda.

    • Randal says:

      10:51am | 15/06/10

      Evan, was it not the union movement who spent $20 million to oust the previous government because they were unhappy with a legislated reforms to the labour market?

      Tell me then what is the difference with the mining industry feeling equally aggrieved at what they perceive as an unfair attack upon their industry and running an equally strong campaign?

      Surely this is democracy at work, all sides with an equal opportunity to put across their view point with the people deciding, as they did in 2007, as to what they believe is best for them and the nation.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      11:47am | 15/06/10

      With respect to the union’s, which I am not a member of, they were fighting for the rights of the worker, even someone like me. They were fighting an unjust policy designed to reduce the take home pay of the worker, remember Spotlight where they did away with penalty rates and in lieu of they compensated them an extra two cents an hour to their base rate.

      I do not begrudge the mining companies their right to state their case but not when it buys a political party to fight the good fight.

      There is more at stake here than just a tax. If corporations can control the political agenda by throwing large sums of shareholder money at political parties to protect their bottomline, then we are starting to move away from a democracy. With the way the American system operates it’s easy to understand why less than half of the population bother to vote.

      Let’s not forget Randal that the Business council, with funding from the mining companies, also pitched in to press home the advantages of Workchoices. The mining industry is but one section of the economy, they are fighting for themselves and their profits, the union was fighting for all working Australians, whether you were a card carrying member or not.

      By the way, the main reason the Government was ditched at the last election was not Workchoices, it was John Howard. Workchoices was the second reason and the third was the Kyoto protocol.

    • AdamC says:

      01:02pm | 15/06/10

      Evan, that is a confected line put about by the ALP and its sycophants. A campaign against a tax by a special interest group is hardly an earth-shattering threat to democracy. Neither, incidentally, was the Rights@Work campaign which was funded by unions. In Australia, unlike the US, we have a political party that is controlled directly by trade unions. I suppose that has been a threat to democracy for, oh, over 100 years now. Or is it OK because unions aren’t ‘corporations’?

      Corporations, I may add, who often give just as much money to the ALP as the Coalition parties. Though I suppose they don’t exactly broadcast that out of ALP HQ.

    • Steve_of_Cornubia says:

      07:30pm | 15/06/10

      Evan, how come you take exception to mining companies making donations to the Liberal party, yet you’re OK with unions spending millions to support Labor? All the things you accuse the mining companies of - lining pockets, peddling propaganda, squashing policy to protect their own agenda - the unions are guilty of in spades and have been for decades. There are more ex-union officials in Labor than there are mining CEOs in the Liberal party.

    • Greg says:

      11:13am | 23/06/10

      Just thought I’d comment here Evan after reading your response to Randal for there is a common thread you choose to ignore on two accounts and that is International Competiveness - we are part of a planet and population wise and commercially a very small component.

      Mining is an international trade and though Australia is rich in resources we do not have a monopoly and so whatever structure we have here that effects production costs and bottom line profits will impact on just what extent of international trade we have with mining.
      Full marks for the industry and state governments mind you for taking an inept government on.
      It is no secret that a large % of our international balance of payments comes from the resources sector and we kill that off and Paul K will have his banana republic sooner than later.

      And then workplace reform and lets call it Work Choices and the campaign run by the Unions which helped to oust Howard and the Liberals who were extremely inept in combating it.
      Sure there are crook bosses about that will attempt to manipulate workers however they can but there are also a lot of damm good employers about too and if you check with the many non union workplaces you’ll find the flexibility talked of with work choices was already very much present, even decades ago.
      And do you know why?
      Because on one hand you had employees that enjoyed the satisfaction of a workplace unfettered with Union restrictions and employers/employees developed a mutual respect that gave loyalty both ways and allowed the organisation to be more competitive and survive.
      And that is where Work Choices was so undersold for particularly our manufacturing industry faces enormous challenge in competing on the international market with the low labor cost countries of Asia where work heads to from not just here but also the US and Europe.
      So your choices in this free trade WTO level playing field world are you do what is possible to compete and good agreements between employers and employees is a key aspect of that or you just have more manufacturing industries close up shop.

      Labor will not be open about that and sure as hell the coalition shot themselves in the foot by not being brutually honest.

    • Russ says:

      10:26am | 15/06/10

      If the “certain mining company” you’re talking about is from Switzerland, note that while they may have deferred opening that mine, thay are still buying up land in the area.  Having cake and eating?

    • David (not the writer) says:

      10:34am | 15/06/10

      A good view from the accounting front, where shades of grey are prevented from existing.  If you put 6 economists in a room you’ll get 7 different opinions, and the only thing they’ll agree on is that accountants are all wrong.

      If the collective actions of this government weren’t so frightening, I’d give them a round of applause for the laughs on how polarised opinions of the debate are, given the data.

      Get informed, people.  That’s what I read as the purpose of this piece.

    • Press says:

      10:56am | 15/06/10

      Thanks, I did.

      The piece is not a good view from the accounting front, at all. There are two big fat whoppers on the acounting side alone. See above. 

      Spin. That’s all it is, more bloody spin.

    • Mayday says:

      10:44am | 15/06/10

      Great article David, sensible and well written. 
      As an ex small business person I found the news of the 40 percent tax laughable, “are they serious?”  It seems they are and you are right about academics and theories, they do not belong in the business world.
      Common sense, or even someone with a grasp of high school maths understands that taking 40 percent away will not encourage people to play.
      The maligned billionaires will just take their ball and go play elsewhere, these people are the only ones who can afford to take long term risks.
      Mr Henry’s reaction when being questioned by Barnaby Joyce was cringe worthy, he just maintained his skewed theory to the point of actually saying a 70+ percentage tax after profit won’t affect the business…...at that moment arrogance and pride overtook common sense. 
      Lets not overcook this golden goose!

    • Tim says:

      11:25am | 15/06/10

      This ^^^^^.
      Prime example of what the average joe thinks about this tax.
      Completely uniformed and ignorant of the facts.

      Those damn academics and their fancy book learning.
      My high school maths and “real world” experience is far better.

    • Elphaba says:

      01:36pm | 15/06/10

      They’ll never take their bat and ball and go elsewhere.

      We’re the Saudi Arabia of uranium…

    • Just Sayin' says:

      01:46pm | 15/06/10

      That might be true Tim, but every average Joe over 18 gets to vote.

    • Mayday says:

      05:03pm | 15/06/10

      Tim I was repeating Ken Henry’s referral to High School maths when replying to questions put by another accountant Barnaby Joyce! 
      Please don’t imply small business people are uninformed and
      ignorant of the facts, they keep this country ticking along everyday working in the real world. 
      Small business people mortgage their homes, take risks and in order to succeed need to be very informed. They learn from the experience of others whose instinct, gut feeling and drive generate businesses who collectively employ millions, they look to the future and plan from past experience and rarely rely on book learning or academics.
      I imagine you either work in the public service or a subsidiary, an academic perhaps, something safe and cosy for sure?

    • Hermann Weber says:

      12:03pm | 15/06/10

      I am fascinated by all these arguments. I am a retired Electrical Contractor. During my working life we made small profits, big profits losses etc. That is the nature of Business. We paid our taxes as laid down. What is so different about the Mining Sector? Taking resources out of the ground? Give me break. Every one does. Primary Industries, Timber Industries, even the Bee Keeper. If you want to institute a Tax on “Excess” profits do it to every one. The Taxation Regime is muddled enough without adding further complexities. I am only a simple tradesman but this is all over top.
      Hermann from Clare

    • Tom says:

      04:32pm | 15/06/10

      What is different about mining? All the other sectors you mention aren’t finite - the bees can keep making honey, more trees can be planted, more crops can be planted etc. However, once minerals are taken, they aren’t coming back. Australia has a limited amount of time to make use of its mineral endowments.

      And you forget that the mining industry already pays royalties based upon the quantity of minerals mined. Surely it makes more sense to tax the profits instead, so that as profits rise, so does the tax paid and vice versa? If mineral prices are rising, there should be a commensurate increase in the amount of tax paid.

    • NJ says:

      02:17pm | 17/06/10

      Tom don’t be naive, the resources sector is not finite.

      What do you think asteroids, moons and other celestial bodies are filled with? Untapped resources, that is what.

    • Greg says:

      11:28am | 23/06/10

      Tom,
      The tax mining companies will pay is going to increase with profits just as anyone on whatever tax rate they are pays more tax.
      What you in effect are saying is that you would like to see a tiered company taxation structure like we have for personal income tax but just for mining/resources.
      The reason for high profits at the moment is demand from mainly China and mining companies are very much international and so if taxation rate on profit gets hiked up here they will be looking at where they can provide from with a lesser taxation rate affecting ROI and in having other mining developments an expansion elsewhere could happen relatively quickly.
      That done, they would just scale back production and expansion developments here.
      As Chinas demand drops off [ and don’t think it will ] so production will drop anyway and a government relying heavily on increased tax will come unstuck anyway.

    • Saskia says:

      12:37pm | 15/06/10

      Agree totally.  If you want the nations finances run properly you need qualified professional accountants to run things.  Not public service economists, union lawyers and bureaucrats.

      Its like getting a brickie to do open heart surgery and then having him release an advert on how he did it.

      Its about time pro commerce/accountants/finance people were listened to and NOT government lies and fraud.

      Its is amazing that amateurs are allowed to run the finances of Australia’s economy.

    • Bruce says:

      03:19pm | 15/06/10

      Agree Saskia. The country should be run like a business by experienced and well qualified business people and not like a soup kitchen benevolent society.

    • persephone says:

      03:33pm | 15/06/10

      OK, but given that the other side of politics are largely lawyers, what do we do?

      I’m sure experienced and well qualified business people would be welcomed as candidates by either party, so the question becomes why they aren’t putting themselves up.

      Might have something to do with pay and conditions…unless you want me to believe that business people aren’t interested in public service.

    • Press says:

      12:53pm | 15/06/10

      Look, I’m sorry, but those of you who think this is a good balanced article, based in fact and sensibly written by an expert need to have another look. Please.

      Author on Return on Investment
      “no mining company ... would contemplate a project where the return on investment (ROI) was as low as 6%.”
      Perhaps, but so what? Well, he’s put it in such a way that it looks like the mining tax will suck up all returns above 6%. But that’s wrong. It won’t. The ROI will be 6% (or maybe 7%) *plus* 60% of profits above that - after rebates for royalties, and rebates for losses, and all the other usual deductions etc.

      And again: “Government handing back 40% of the costs”.
      Err no. Certainly wrong. Firstly, its not costs - its *losses*. Secondly, they’re not “handed back” - no cheque. Losses accumulate, as a credit to rebate against future profits tax.

      If one of us ordinary posters made blunders like this, it’s be amusing to pick ‘em up.

      But this fellow is an accountant, for goodness sake, and a Punch author. He’s pointed to his profession and his expertise to justify what he says.  “People like me understand tax”, he says. Yet his case on the accounting side is not just wrong. It’s so wrong that it is plainly misleading. It is, in short, spin.

    • Bean counter says:

      02:07pm | 15/06/10

      I agree. Press is trying to spin. When the writer talks about ROI, he never suggested that the Government would take everything in excess of 6%, he was just saying—from my reading—that setting the ROI for “super” profits at 6%, which it does, is too low. As for the difference between costs and profits, well the writer made a mistake there, possibly a typo. However, whether you refund costs or losses (which will be a lesser amount, of course) the point is that it is a disincentive to achievement, and a potential tax loophole.

      Don’t miss the wood for trees, Press. (Are you an economist by any chance?)

    • Hamish says:

      02:47pm | 15/06/10

      Press,

      You’re half right though I’m not sure that’s what the author meant by the ROI point. It’s not how I read it.

      What he seems to me to be saying is that in terms of green-lighting a project, no mining company would green-light a project they thought would make only 6%, so that the government rebating 40% doesn’t affect how many projects come on line. I think that’s a more than reasonable point.

      The other point about the 40% guarantee is that the international finance companies won’t take it into account because no one believes the government will ever pay it. Because they most likely won’t.

    • Press says:

      04:02pm | 15/06/10

      Hamish, thanks. Perhaps so on the 6%. But as the author spent a whole para of his piece hammering home that as the low limit, I’m going to stick to my guns on the effect of his ill-chosen emphasis, and lack of content on the total effect, and his error on the loss rebate. 

      As for BC, pah. I’ve no reason to spin. Donovan hung out his accountants expertise and under a Punch bylined piece. I’m not sucking up any sloppiness from the likes of him, ta very much.  None.

      I want to see a better simple explanation that is as accurate or better than one I can work out as a layman. Being neither accountant nor economist.

      A better, simple, accurate explanation. Isn’t that what we all want? How hard can it be?

    • Arnold says:

      04:24pm | 15/06/10

      Press, the government will be handing back 40% of the costs when no revenue is generated, such as when a mine fails before it even reaches extraction (let alone selling) stage.  Remember, this would be a project by project recoupment, so these costs will be the amount of the losses.  So no, not certainly wrong.  Nice try though.

      You are right though, that the 40% is a credit carried forward to future years, unless of course the company fails and goes into liquidation, in which case it will be paid out.  This may actually be good for many small to medium companies when they go bust as their cash flows are negatively impacted by having to pay out almost 60% tax on returns over 6% pa.  Another nice try. 

      And one more thing, please stop arguing that the author states that the government will take anything over a 6% return.  The author is stating that calling any profits above a 6% return on investment “super” profit is ridiculous.  With this one, you are not only trying too hard, you are actually lying.

      It’s funny that you actually accuse the author of spin, when you are practically Shane Warne on this forum.

    • Press says:

      08:22am | 17/06/10

      The Liberal mind-set laid bare.

      You don’t like what I say and you disagree with my argument. So I must be a liar.

      Pah.  Is there a wearier old trick than that? Pah.

    • Stop it says:

      01:40pm | 15/06/10

      Press, if you want to make a close literal reading of this article for your own purposes, fine. However, it is pretty clear that what the guy says is balanced and fair and written for the layman, unlike msot of what you read in the press. If you want to split hairs and muddy the waters, fine. But it seems to me that there is a lot of common sense in this article.

    • Press says:

      02:11pm | 15/06/10

      Because you like what he says, glaring errors of fact, in his area of expertise, don’t matter?  And clearing up his errors is “muddying the waters”? Come off it.

      He is - or was - an accountant. He’s trying to paint the tax as poorly set out, when it’s his summary that’s wrong, and misleadingly so.  As I and several others have noticed.

      My “own purposes”? Bit snide there. A fair, simple, factual debate is all I’m after. Not much to ask, eh. It’s what’s needed, but not to be seen in this article. It just doesn’t cut the mustard.

    • MH says:

      02:13pm | 15/06/10

      I’d have to agree.  I do like Press’ particularly compelling reasoning:  “It’s spin. Q.E.D.” 

      Thing is, it really isn’t as difficult as some people would like to make out.  If you add a large new layer of tax to a currently profitable industry you reduce its bottom line profitability.  If the participants in that industry have the option of investing their capital elsewhere for greater profitability they will take it.  If not, they will continue to operate but with reduced profitability.  In Australia’s case, the one-trick pony miners who are operating or close to operating here will continue to do so but with reduced profitability.  They can’t move and hence the RSPT works on them in a revenue-raising sense.  Unfortunately for the government, in the overall scheme of the mining industry these will not be the big contributors to any RSPT revenue.  Meanwhile, the non-operating explorers will not get the funding to continue exploration and development in Australia so they will shift their focus offshore.  So fewer new projects in Australia.  But the real disaster - and the one which will ultimately mean that the additional revenue the government actually raises by the RSPT will in fact bear very little resemblance to its headline target - is that the big diversified miners do have significant offshore options.  Previously the stable and benign investment environment in Australia was sufficient to make Australian projects on balance more attractive than most offshore projects.  With the RSPT, that landscape is dramatically changed and many offshore projects will now be prioritised at the expense of Australian projects.  It’s impossible to know just how significant the reallocation of capital will be - the miners are grandstanding right now because they think they can defeat the RSPT before it ever happens.  But if the RSPT does happen - absent serious redesign - the threats to defer or withdraw will no longer be threats.  And then all Australians lose.

    • Explorer says:

      02:46pm | 15/06/10

      Can I just have one million dollars from the advertising budget of the miners or the government. We have an exploration lease that could be making billions of dollars a year. We just need to drill a few holes. It’s worth nothing in the ground.

    • Peon says:

      03:57pm | 15/06/10

      “It might mean that a few projects don’t go ahead, but they would only be risky ventures anyway, so on balance probably wouldn’t have much noticeable effect on the economy. “

      Regardless the of the varying emphasis on different aspects of the proposed tax by the various partie involved, as they understand it; my main issue with the whole concept has been with the lack of consultation by the government with the miners, and the resulting uncertainty being generated.

      I work in the mining industry. There is a large number of us who rely on the aforementioned projects going ahead (some certainty, job security etc).

      *sarcasm on* And yep, only the billionaires are making money from this.  The chaps working in the industry are all being payed peanuts <coughbullsh!t> and none of us spend any of our (..well easy earned) cash on anything else… in any form of trickle down effect to the rest of the economy…  *sarcasm off*

      One issue that not many people mention is that mine profitability can change rapidly as the commodity price fluctuates. One example of this is the Ravensthorpe nickel project, which cost $3.6B in the end, and was considered profitable when the nickel price was US$50,000/t.  Two years later the nickel price price was under $11,000/t.  BHP was widely criticized for closing Ravensthorpe (1800 jobs lost)  & eventually selling it for $340M. I’m not sure KRudd would have had the balls to bail out 40% of that loss… (0.4x(3.6B-340M) = $1.3B by my reconning)

    • Worker from down the street says:

      07:27pm | 15/06/10

      “BHP was widely criticized for closing Ravensthorpe (1800 jobs lost)  & eventually selling it for $340M. I’m not sure KRudd would have had the balls to bail out 40% of that loss… (0.4x(3.6B-340M) = $1.3B by my reconning) “

      Numbers may be back of ciggy packet calculation but Dudd would have spun his way out of that quicker than a figure skater at the Olympics. No politician would be able to justify it & THAT in itself is reason enough for this current attempt to refill the coffers to be trashed. If the next Government recycles some form of it that all are amenable too, time will tell.

    • Darryl Price says:

      07:44pm | 15/06/10

      Gotta love the spin, oh consort of Hades. The line about the Howard government being the highest taxing government. If you were to say “highest tax collections as a %...etc etc” you might be correct. If you were to say, as you infer “the Howard government imposed more taxes on australians than the current government” whilst conveniently ignoring all the changes to personal and company taxation, that there would be horse flop. You know it’s true…

    • Northern Steve says:

      10:36pm | 15/06/10

      Ahem (cough), News out in the last day or two:
      http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65D0OH20100614

      Huge reserves of iron ore, and plenty of other minerals, in Afghanistan.

      Sure there’s a war going on, but I bet the return on investment would be high, with fairly low taxes too (and no unions making things all nasty and safe).  Also, quite close to India and China.

      Who can spell ‘Competitive Advantage’

    • Explorer says:

      11:31am | 16/06/10

      Yep, this is excatly right. You don’t have to even look so far. Canada, Chile and other resonably stable countries can’t wait for this tax to come in. We are shooting ourselves in the foot big time. We shop around for the best interest rates, how much more effort do you think big investors shop around for a good return on their money? They are not particulary worried if an industry crumbles when they move their money out.

    • from the trenches says:

      05:37pm | 16/06/10

      So, the story so far, (given the article and number of related blogs) is that once again the government has managed to fail totally in explaining what should be a relatively straight forward proposal for reform. Rather than taking us punters with them they chose to wedge and alienate both the opposition and the mining fraternity and therfore confuse the electorate. Relative merits of the proposed tax and outcomes notwithstanding, this issue and the fallout is down to an arrogant group of goverment insiders; on their heads be it!

    • Pedant says:

      06:09pm | 16/06/10

      Great summation! Absolutely spot on.

    • NJ says:

      06:59pm | 16/06/10

      “Economists operate in a world dictated to by assumptions, most of which don’t actually exist in the real world.”’
      Hypocritically you go on to establish your own dubious assumptions - “It is a no-brainer that miners should be paying a fair share back to the owners”.
      Putting aside the fact that “fair share” is a subjective notion, if you assert Australians should have a bigger slice of resource profits, then it is only fair that they also undertake a fair share of the risk involved; company stock is fulfilling of these two conditions, hence BUY SOME SHARES.

    • Pedant says:

      11:57pm | 16/06/10

      There are no assumptions involved there. Miners SHOULD be paying their fair share for the non-renewable resources they are digging up and making a forune out of. Rersources they paid nothing for but were just lucky enough to get a mining claim on. If you are suggesting the company should capitalize by buying shres in these operations, then you are advocating the nationalisation of these industries. Are you advocating the Government nationalising the resources sector?

    • Darryl Price says:

      09:06am | 17/06/10

      @Pedant “Rersources (sic) they paid nothing for but were just lucky enough to get a mining claim on.” Your ignorance is profound when it comes to the process of development of resources projects, though I do love the irony in your choice of nickname.

    • Minor says:

      03:05pm | 17/06/10

      Good work ‘Half’, whenever you don’t like what someone says, just tell them they are ignorant. That’ll do the trick. You should go into politics!

    • Darryl Price says:

      04:27pm | 17/06/10

      Ah fair shake of the sauce bottle Minor. To say that mining companies pay nothing and rely just on luck; well it’s not a matter of liking or not liking what is said. Would the Prime Minister agree with that statement? I doubt it. Would Bob Brown agree with that statement? I doubt it. The assertion is simply incorrect and can’t go unchallenged.

    • Minor says:

      11:48am | 18/06/10

      Fair suck of the sauce bottle. Where have I heard that before? Mentioned the Prime Minister… Hey Kevin, what are you doing commenting on the Punch website. Back to work fixing up the mess you have made of everything with you, you naughty prime minister.

    • Dave says:

      11:00pm | 20/06/10

      Why has it taken nearly 3 years for Rudd to decide a mining tax is needed? State based Royalties are designed to capture the revenue generated from mining activities and are paid to the respective state the mining occurs in. Mr Rudd’s RSPT tax is providing the federal government a slice of the action. If the state governments want anymore money then why don’t they raise their royalty fee from 5% to 20% or more and watch the money roll in. A balance in the rate of taxation needs to be determined and whether the federal government has any rights to claiming state based revenue sourced from each of our mining states.

    • Greg says:

      11:45am | 23/06/10

      Why? Quite simple and that is he has run out of options for paying off his/our mega Paris Hilton credit card.
      And he certainly doesn’t want to come out and say y’all know that GFC I’ve crowed about saving us from, well did I mention there’s a cost we now have to pay!
      Even blind freddy can see what is happening in Europe and the UK and that trying to spend your way out of a financial crisis will only work for so long and mean you’re just climbing to a higher peak for a bigger fall!

    • Peasant #3167 says:

      05:59pm | 23/06/10

      My bet is, the mining tax will be well watered down, and next year we will see the GST rise to 12.5%.

 

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