We should have a debate on population and immigration

Dan says:

10:13pm | 11/03/10

Hear hear! I completely agree.

Wombat says:

05:27pm | 10/03/10

The “Sharia Law” that these people are claiming exists in the UK involves some dodgy home-made “courts”, like a UK version of Judge Judy, but probably less entertaining.
Both sides must agree to be bound by the decision of the “court”.
Then if either side doesn’t like that decision they can just go to a real court. Does anyone here know of an instance where a real court in the UK has upheld a decision made by a “Sharia Court”? Or a decision made by a “Flying Spaghetti Monster Court”?
This is just what Bronwyn wants the fools to do - tell lies about what is happening overseas and what is likely to happen in Australia.
I just did a quick poll of all the Muslims I know in Australia. All 3 were horrified at the idea of Sharia law in Australia. If anyone has any better statistics please let me know.
So apart from all the legal reasons why it will never happen, I can see 2 very good political reasons:
1. Most non-Muslim Australians would never accept it.
2. Most Muslim Australians would never accept it.
By the way, the Muslim bloke Bronnie quotes actually said at the time that he knew that Sharia law would never be introduced in Australia. Bronnie just forgot to put that bit in.

annie says:

04:58pm | 10/03/10

22 sharia court are running in the UK in tandem with british law, they are only allowed minimal juristiction and mostly cover muslim family law. you can check detail easily on google.

James says:

12:32pm | 11/03/10

@ Eric.  Look there is no way I would ever accept Sharia law in Australia.  My point is, why even bring this up?  Frankly people of all nationalities make extreme suggestions all the time, why would you pick the extreme Muslim comment?  I think it is to give the impression that all Muslims think like this.  What the President of the Australian Islamic mission says about Sharia, is pretty irrelevant in this debate.

The debate has to be about sustainablity front and centre, if the debate becomes about this group or that group the chances of a sensible debate go to zero.

Eric says:

04:17pm | 10/03/10

What racism?

I don’t see any racism. Are you seeing things?

Eric says:

04:16pm | 10/03/10

Where is the “racism” of which you speak, DC?

The voices in your head don’t count.

Martin G says:

11:40am | 10/03/10

Why don’t you explain what part of the article does not make sense, rather than labelling it as ‘propaganda feeding on the ignorant and the racist’.

Perhaps you are unable to come up with a reasonable argument refuting the logic of the call for a debate on this issue? You are the reason why we need a debate, because your type have dictated terms for far too long without facing up to any accountability for your actions.

“But the truth is that The Punch would clearly rather publish Liberal propaganda then actually ask hard questions of those in positions of power”

Yes, those Nick Champion articles on Climate Change and IR policy recently were such Liberal propaganda weren’t they! Open the other eye, mate.

Eric says:

06:02pm | 10/03/10

Dear H of SA,

We’re onto your lies.

If there is racism, you should be able to name it. The fact that you can’t show any evidence, and instead rely on some silly idea of invisible codes, shows that you have nothing.

Eric says:

05:28am | 11/03/10

It’s very simple, HWGA, though perhaps not simple enough for you.

Islam is a religion, not a race.

That’s r-e-l-i-g-i-o-n, not r-a-c-e.

Think about it. Really hard.

Here we go again says:

06:24pm | 10/03/10

Eric,
I apologise for nothing.  If introducing scaremongering about Sharia law becoming our “second” system is not inflamatory and a red herring in terms of population debate/asset management, please explain the direct link, not racially-based of course, I am missing?

Eric says:

05:59pm | 10/03/10

So, HWGA, you admit you have no evidence of racism in this debate.

Shame on you. You should apologise for your lying smear..

Here we go again says:

04:43pm | 10/03/10

Eric,
My wrong.  I mistakenly believed it was possible to debate population (quantity) without reference to Sharia Law becoming our “second” system.  Highly emotive,  intended to be divisive and not factually based.
If it walks like a duck….

Eric says:

04:14pm | 10/03/10

There’s no mention of race in Ms Bishop’s article.

In fact, you are the one who has dragged race into the issue, as a way of smearing her.

Here we go again says:

01:02pm | 10/03/10

I was not attempting to defend Sharia law, merely pointing out the inclusion of extreme comments by the President of the Australian Islamic Mission was a red herring.  Australia has bigger concerns than the unrealistic fear of Sharia law being adopted.  Water, housing affordability, infrastructure, education, health, aged care, waste management and the like have much more bearing on Australia’s future than the fear of “immigrants” taking over.

Mother Goose says:

12:13pm | 10/03/10

Yes, it does matter. Sharia law is an anathema

Andrew says:

01:17pm | 11/03/10

The greens are not a party. they are a roadblock who give their preferences to labor.

James says:

11:50am | 10/03/10

Australia’s resources are indeed patchy, our political “leadership” pool is so shallow it is in danger of evaporating in weak sunlight.  Unfortunately we have a political culture of mediocrity that is well and truely entrenched.

John A Neve says:

05:27pm | 11/03/10

Anna,
Who ever said the early Ausatralians were the “true owners of the land”?

What law are you talking about Anna, there were many tribes, which ones law do you want us to abide by?

Show me a law book writen by early Australians.

Anna Matevossian says:

02:12pm | 11/03/10

Australia doesn’t recognise the law of the true owners of the land - the Australian Aboriginals… why the hell should it recognise the brutal and backward laws of the most dangerous & neanderthal ‘religion’ in the world?!?!?
My brother in law has been stationed on Christmas Island for over 6 weeks dealing with a bunch of illiterate queue jumping illegals, who do not wish to honour the Australian ethics and way of life. He has been bumped off the allocated airline seating (so he can return to his honest tax paying family) by these people who are treated with more dignity and are given so much more than our own senior citizens, many of whom have given up so much (including loved ones in the wars) to make Australia great. If you want the real story, try talking to some of the officers working in the detention centres.

Ryan says:

11:41pm | 10/03/10

@Yut: yes, yes and we want Australia and the rest of the world to be like every other Muslim country, the ones, ironically, that Muslims run away from to come to western countries. Where will you run to then?

JJ says:

12:35pm | 10/03/10

Because it would create discrimination, be contrary to a myriad of our current laws and international legal obligations. The fact that a muslim woman is then not able to access the same legal remedies that a non-mulsim woman can is discriminatory. There are many values within both muslim and non-muslim religions which are positive and some which I see as negative - all a matter of personal opinion really. I am neither muslim nor christian and still have a moral compass and values. Religious freedom is essential. Australia’s future will never be Muslim. Our nation is becoming one of the most multi-cultural in the world and that is what I love about it. I only hope that we can become more accepting of diversity and ensure that everyone can access their human rights. If we are going to consider incorporating any other legal system into Australia’s then perhaps we should first turn to Indigenous Australia?

Mother Goose says:

12:02pm | 10/03/10

And that, is clearly on the cards.  I see gradual dumbing down of once long held valued celebrations. It seems we are expected to bend over backwards to accommodate all that is encompassed in the muslim way of life and in the process put our own needs on the backburner. We tip toe about in case someone takes offence.  This is predominantly a christian country run on the Westminster system. We are consistently being told we should open up our country to people from war ravaged countries so they can have a better way of life. I am all for that provided they encompass this way of life and not dominate with their beliefs and dogma. I am tired of these repeated attempts to get these laws accepted here. Solution: live in a country where the laws already exist.

yut says:

11:26am | 10/03/10

All I’m saying is that the removal of Christianity by the humanists from Western society has created a vacuum that Islam has started to, and will continue to fill. There are more practising Muslims than Christians under 30 years of age in London and Paris and soon this will be the same for Sydney. I say good luck to them, they simply want it more, like the Tigers wanted the 2005 Premiership.

And I guarantee you that Muslim women don’t see having a big family as “servitude”, rather they see it as the most important, satisfying and loving thing they can do. The modern Western view of family as an inconvience seems to be unsustainable - go figure.

Anna C. says:

10:20am | 10/03/10

So are these the same Muslims who believe in flying planes into buildings, suicide bombings, stoning women to death for committing adultery (when they have actually been raped) etc etc?  Yeah they sure have great moral values don’t they?

You can keep your Sharia Law ...  I’m not having a bar of it.  If you want Sharia Law I suggest to migrate to a country that already has it.

Anna C. says:

10:22am | 10/03/10

So are these the same Muslims who believe in flying planes into buildings, suicide bombings, stoning women to death for committing adultery (when they have actually been raped) etc etc?  Yeah they sure have great moral values don’t they?

You can keep your Sharia Law ...  I’m not having a bar of it.  If you want Sharia Law I suggest to migrate to a country that already has it.

Reginald says:

10:14am | 10/03/10

Yeah can’t wait for that IED’s and AK-47’s dealing out justice on the streets. Muslims have big families because their women are forced into a life of servitude and rarely have careers other than wife and mother backed up by the Australian taxpayer. Other Australians including christians don’t turn their women into relics from the middle ages and are busy working paying taxes. Paid maternity leave can help to rectify this problem.

Andrew says:

01:10pm | 11/03/10

Pure Genius, that will solve everything. C’mon, this article contains some very interesting issues and you take the low road. Great contribution.

annie says:

12:53pm | 10/03/10

bec coz they dont want to change our society. You know like ritual cliterectomies, honour killings, sharia law and madrassas, 98% unemployment. Alien political ideology which promotes the supremacy of Islam over other faiths.

Tabari IX:113: “Allah permits you to shut them (women) in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Quran.”

Now this might seems a bit foreign to many Australians but they’re all part of the rich fabric of multiculturalism that you must want here.

Eric says:

06:02pm | 10/03/10

Dove,

Please provide an example of this “race card” of which you speak.

Or are you just making it up?

The Dove says:

03:20pm | 10/03/10

Spot on Wombat? Its always those who allow fear to drive them that can’t see the forest for the trees. The Coalition play the race card every time they are behind the eight ball. The problem is Bronwyn you are an outdated dinosaur who is preaching to a base that is ever diminishing,Do you believe that any Australian male or female would allow any particular portion of its society to dictate to the majority? Oh and by the way can you at least refrain from wearing those pompous outfits every day the 50’s were half a century ago and while your at it tell Sophie Mirrabella the same,oh and I almost forgot the love of every Liberal leaders life Julie Bishop.

Dylan says:

10:42am | 10/03/10

Right on, Wombat.  I keep seeing articles by this addled old windbag trying to do the same thing - say ‘let’s have an open debate’ in the first paragraph, and then engage in shameless dog-whistling.  That Sharia law rant verges on being a nonsequitur!

For heaven’s sake, it there anything more disingenuous than saying ‘let’s have an open debate about sustainable population levels’ then leaping headlong into gratuitous commentary about how all those Muslims are out of step with Bronnie’s community values.

On a separate topic (see, Bronwyn, that’s how to do it!): why is it that our esteemed federal politicians are only too happy to sink the boot into whatever moronic pronouncement has issued from the latest attention-seeking, self-appointed Muslim community leader; but Stephen “Young-Earth Creationist” Fielding gets treated like he is actually in possession of a functioning brain? 

Granted, believing six impossible things before breakfast is probably less alarming than calling for Sharia law, but my goodness there’s a deathly silence when the Christian lobby calls for yet another bit of special treatment - whether it’s on discrimination, shoe-horning yet more of their myths into the science curriculum…

Alex says:

01:11pm | 10/03/10

Are you suggesting that because they arrive by boat they are not genuine Refugees? The fact is that well over 90% of boat arrivals assessed on Christmas Island have been found to be genuine Refugees or Asylum seekers. The rules where not changed to encourage people smugglers but rather to deal with asylum seekers in a more humane way. Mandatory detention times have been sped up and refugees and asylum seekers are now given a guaranteed chance to stay, settle and make a home in Australia, which was something they where not given under the previous governments temporary protection visa rules. Add to that that Australia is one of the few countries to have signed the refugee convention between here and most of Asia and the middle East meaning that most people come here feeling they will be safe from the terrors and atrocities they are fleeing from.

cats says:

04:02pm | 23/03/10

Well i wasn’t alive 30 years ago, but from what i’ve learned, the world is waaaay more PC now than then..