Ageist Australia reviles instead of reveres its elders

Geoff says:

01:24pm | 01/10/10

“Older people are not seen as individuals but rather lumped together.”

Kinda sounds like what the boomers do to Gen Y. More evidence of the boomers being the most selfish, hypocritical generation to walk this planet.

Funny how boomers are first to tell Gen Y that were useless and shit and then turn around and cry that they are the victim. Thats pathetic, boomers, absolutely pathetic

Never die wondering says:

01:46pm | 01/10/10

A few years ago I re-entered the paid workforce at age 46, having tried for some time to get employers and employment agencies to take me seriously.  Got there in the end, but then had to fight tooth and nail for training and promotion.  Such was the mentality in my new company that some of the staff were gobsmacked that I actually knew how to send a text message or make up a Powerpoint preso.  I tackled the promotion issue by working like a dog and paying for my own professional development initially, until it became clear that I was better qualified than any of the other potential candidates.  I have a great job now and love every minute of it, but I feel for anyone who experiences ageism, including young workers who genuinely are more capable than their older bosses - it still works both ways.

Zemlak says:

02:17pm | 01/10/10

This is an interesting contrast to what my mates tell me from the states. Over there, they love getting their hands on an over qualified employee who will accept less money than they warrant based on EXPERIENCE. Thus all the horror story of inexperienced students struggling to get work over there.

Could it be that the Aussie economy has a greater portion of lower skill roles? One cheeky economist article I read a few years ago calls Australia the economy of bar code readers - aka cafes, retail shops and restaurants—OR mining. That trends towards the young I reckon.

I think that may be exaggerating things a bit, but maybe there is something to the fact that the economy is booming in Oz? Thereby older experienced workers are less likely to accept lower pay than their USA counterparts - thus creating problems for themselves as a result when job cuts need to be made?

Eric Northman says:

02:30pm | 01/10/10

How about the descrimmination towards younger people that’s out there?
Young people pay more for car insurance (Please skip the ‘statistics prove younger people are more likely to be in an accident’ speech because classifying ALL young people as dangerous drivers because some are IS discrimmination).

Older people get discounts on glasses.

The whole concept of ‘APIA’ insurance is descimminatory - imagine there was a ‘AMIA’ - Australian Male-Only Insurance Australia - paying cheaper insurance because we don’t cover female-accdient prone drivers.  It would be shot down before it started..

Young people get the “We’re looking for someone with more experience” spiel all the time while job hunting.

Surly Spud says:

02:34pm | 01/10/10

It’s also at odds with what the ABS is saying. Employment for the older age groups is booming compared with recent years. Check out their ‘Older People and the Labour Market’ report released this week.

Ambra Sancin says:

02:34pm | 01/10/10

One of the big problems facing mature age workers is the staff in recruitment agencies. Who recruits the recruitment staff? As a professional with a 20-year managerial background, my experience recently has been one of being interviewed by mostly 20-something British girls (working holiday?) with scant knowledge of local companies, no idea how the government/NGO sector works and who don’t grasp what I’m saying. How on earth are 45+ job seekers supposed to feel confident in attaining work when the starting point is so dismal? Maybe the whole recruitment process for mature age workers needs to be overhauled.

marley says:

02:41pm | 01/10/10

When I started in the labour force, I tended to think that the older managers were living in a time warp, unable to adjust to changing social values.  A lot of the people in my first place of employment had served in WWII, and operated in the civliian world as though they were still in the army - command and obey, no questions asked or suggestions given.  I figured that anyone beyond a certain age was inflexible, unimaginative, and “by the book.”  I was wrong.

As I matured in the work force, I realized that, while the dinosaurs were certainly around, a lot of my seniors were fare more adaptable than I had understood - that, forbidding miens notwithstanding, they had the mental flexibility to adjust to anything, plus the experience to actually shape those changes.  They were the ones driving the organization forward, finding new fields of endeavour, making the decisions to bring in that scary new technology. And the best of them mentored the up-and-coming youngsters in the organization.

By the time I got towards the end of my career, I could still see the dinosaurs, only of course many of them were my own age.  People who’d gotten stuck in their ways somewhere along the line, and just couldn’t adapt any more to the changes in society or in the labor force going on around them.  But a great many others of my cohort continued to adapt and adjust as they always had. 

And here’s the thing, I came to realize that some of the dinosaurs were in fact quite young - I recall one late 20s individual who was widely know as the “youngest dinosaur” in the organization. 

The fact is, it’s not how good you are with technology that matters (unless you’re actually in a technical field) nor how much experience you have - it’s what you do with both.  And the ability to be flexible and imaginative has nothing to do with age, and everything to do with attitude.  Just as the ability to work in or lead a team isn’t confined to a particular generation or gender.  I’ve known boomers who were completely inflexible, and I’ve known Gen X and Y’ers who were the same.  I’ve known other boomers and more than a few Gen Xers who were inspiring leaders, and no doubt,  Gen Y will produce the same in a year or two.  Along with more dinosaurs.

Fact is, ageism is a fact of life in the workforce and always has been. It is human nature to make generalizations about categories of people, the generations included.  And it’s the organization’s loss when it cannot see beyond the generalizations to the nature of what the individual brings to the table, irrespective of age.

ZSRenn says:

02:42pm | 01/10/10

Living and working Overseas.

Before leaving Australia I went out with some friends for a night on the town.  As I was with my 20 year old daughter we thought it a good idea to go clubbing. Until security at every venue we approached turned me and only me away due to intoxication. Funny as I had just finished work raced home and changed then headed out late. No alcohol involved.

Here I am a sort after Musician and Singer. I have a band with 3 local men and work solo in some of the top clubs in town. Could you imagine a mature bald getting on stage in an Australian dance club.

I am afforded respect from the local community and strangely enough from young expats living here as well. Well paid my council is often sort. The elderly here are freely given accommodation by the eldest son. The grandmothers raise the children to allow both parents the time to work. They are not herded off to secured communities out of mind and out of sight.

My work position brings me into constant contact with the nations youth. All call me Uncle which is the polite way of addressing someone older than you. All offer endless respect and wish to learn from my experience.

I may be getting on by AU standards but I am young at heart. I am not ready to be closed away because I am ‘mature’. I am not ready to take a job that I do not like because I am ‘not getting any younger’. I still have living to do and I am going to live it with dignity and respect and so I remain here.

I would also like to point out that at my age I am not a baby boomer. I came 15 years later. I am not Gen X or Gen Y We is the Forgotten Gen. Those who had to watch the Boomers make mistake after mistake and we also have to wear the pain they have caused. These were our elder peers whom we looked up to. As our minds were developing they showed us the ropes. No wonder we are all such a mess.

Lee from WA says:

03:36pm | 01/10/10

Maybe just offer them the ‘peaceful pill’. Is that how we should deal with unwanted old people?

HappyCynic says:

04:13pm | 01/10/10

I’ll be brutally honest, we humans peak young and don’t maintain it for long so after about 45 or so it’s a slow downhill decay into senility while the flesh starts to droop off the bones

Michael says:

04:40pm | 01/10/10

When I reach 45 (in 20 years time), I would like to be given a fair go. In saying that, I don’t plan on being a luddite who “sees no use” for learning the new world order methods of contemporary times. If the last two decades have taught us anything, it’s that the world is ever-changing at a rapid pace with no indication of slowing down, and will not stop and wait for people who are behind the times. And in an era where there are free community services such as Seniors Online etc who aim to teach older (and even not-so-much-older) adults work-standard IT skills, there is really no excuse not to learn or brush-up.

Lisa says:

04:44pm | 01/10/10

When you are younger you can’t see past the grey hair and the wrinkles.
You don’t understand how someone can go on living in the ‘same house’ or in the same community, tending a garden or having a ‘boring lifestyle’ year after year.
Gradually, after you have children of your own, perspective changes.
You realise that ‘boring’ grandma who doesn’t have an opinion about anything is actually a heap more Zen than you, and ‘gets’ a lot more than she lets on.
The fact that we have fewer children, older, kind of delays our own development. It is through family interaction that we learn the wisdom of the elderly.
The egotism of youth gives way to the perspective and reserve of old age, eventually.  Often the old will simply remain silent in the face of grave injustices and indignities.  After all, who wants to really hear what an old person has to say anyway??

Colin says:

05:13pm | 01/10/10

I was retired from the Navy at the compulsory retirement age of 55 a few years ago.  Before I retired, I asked if there were plans to increase the retiring age.  They assured me there were none and that there was no possibility of me continuing in the office-work jobs that were my only prospects.  Lo and behold, just after I retired they upped the age to 60 with 65 for reservists. 

I felt betrayed.  I knew they were thinking about increasing the retiring age, but for it to have appeared so quickly after I left it would have to have been at an advanced stage of development when I asked.

I work casually now, and advertise myself on job search sites, but I sense the distrust of my long CV with many achievements that could only come with someone who is “too old”. 

There’s also a shortage of casual or part time work that suits a senior manager.  I could easily work lugging cartons around a bottle shop or similar, but not much that uses the brain and experience.

Davido says:

08:24pm | 01/10/10

I would love to employ some oldies. They are great - they have better people skills, are more tolerant and better sales people.

BUT I can employ a youngster for 30k. Tell me anyone over 50 who will work for that.

Me? Old? No...... says:

09:46am | 02/10/10

Aged 43, I did not consider myself to be elderly…....

I have worked in my industry for 20 years and I have another good 20 (plus maybe) in me.  I am an asset to my employer and I am actively sought out by others in my industry. 

Am I to understand this all stops in 18 months when I turn 45?

Peter says:

06:56am | 03/10/10

Tied to the ageism which is rampant, is experience-ism. A while back applied for an executive role. A strategic decision making role in a Multi-billion business. I had years of experience in similar roles. I even suggested some new technologies and directions in my cover letter which would benefit the client.

I was told “They were impressed, but were looking for someone ‘on their way’ to my level of expertise. (As one of the most senior and strategic roles in a Multi-billion dollar business). What is worse, is I have since seen the same firm advertise for the same role. From Linkedin etc I can tell who got it, and that they have moved on, in fact, to a more mundane role, so they were clearly out of their depth. Short of re-approaching them with an “I told you so”, what does one do.

Repeatedly, I see jobs advertised for “2-3 years experience” in X or Y”. IN many cases I have 10, and whats’ more known the people that invented it, personally. IS this really that organizations don’t understand, or that hiring managers potentially fear hiring someone smarter or more experienced than themselves.  One of the reasons for hiring expertise, is that it is is something that you (or your organization) doesn’t have. Strangely, the first thing most firms will do, is try to constrain the “fresh blood” albeit more mature, to fit into their mould, rather than taking advantage of the diversity of experience.

Antiques Don't Get Pregnant says:

11:03am | 03/10/10

Don’t worry ‘oldies’ - I’ll employ you - especially women over 50 who have had enough children.  Soon it will be the young child bearing women who are bleating they are being discriminated against as no one will employ them in case they get pregnant!

Rebecca says:

12:06pm | 03/10/10

What I want to know is why 45+ is the classification for ‘older’ people. So saying the average person starts full time work in their late teens/early 20s, where they are the dreaded “Gen Y” until they’re about 30, then you only have 15 years before you are considered useless again?? My parents are 52 and they are certainly nowhere near “bumbling or senile”. 

I think jobs should be given on skill, experience and attitude. These things can’t be determined by age - I’ve met a quite a few older people who have far better computer skills than me (I’m 20), however I have also met a few oldies who have a worse attitude than me (believe it or not!). It’s a case-by-case basis, not generation-by-generation.

fair go Australia says:

12:35pm | 03/10/10

I found myself unemployed two and a half years ago. And as an ex middle manager at the height of the greatest economic boom we had ever experienced I could not find employment. Recruiters loved my resume and couldn’t wait to meet me, and arranged an urgent interview that turned into polite conversation. After the third interview I realised what was going on. I was over fifty and had white hair, a follicular challenge I had lived with for over ten years.
Worse than ageism, I became a serial applicant. Every recruitment agency in Brisbane knew me and I was ignored. I applied for jobs as a delivery driver, a clerk, a supervisor through to national manager’s positions without any success. I did get to a few company interviews however there was always someone better, and so be it.

Everyone looks for the government to do something. I did, at a state level as well as a federal level and while there a lot of nice people in government, I may as well have talked to a plant. I even partitioned my local federal member and I received a reply saying it was a shame that all his hard work to eliminate ageism as minister for employment had disappeared with Labour.
The other point is the federal government wants people to work until they are 65-70 to take the pressure of the old age pension. How is that going to happen?
And yes I have been unemployed for two and a half years. I thought I had seen low points in my life before all of this but this nearly tipped me over edge into the black abyss. Thank God for my wife. There is a light, my son is starting a business and he is one of a few young people who can see the value in having my experience on his side.

Judy says:

08:20pm | 03/10/10

This whole ageism thing is sickening.  It only confirms what those of us over 50 have always known.  To all the young smart arses who write that we have made their lives more difficult; harder to get a mortgage and all the other rubbish they carry on with…............have a good look around you and the lifestyle you have.  It is people over 50 who have made this country what it is today.  Many of them still have to work so it’s not as though they are staying in the workforce to spite you, they are staying their to keep a roof over their head and food in their fridges.  You seem to forget that compulsory super didn’t come in until the Keating era so many older people have very little super especially when it comes to everything costing much more, living longer and not being able to get a pension anyhow until mid 60’s, and what a humiliating experience that would have to be.
I intend to work until I can no longer.  Tough if you don’t like that.  I have contributed to this country as a taxpayer for over 40 years, I have raised 3 children who all contribute and their children are also contributing.  How dare you discriminate against me and tell me I’m too old to work.  I am 58 years of age.  I can spell properly, I am very computer literate, I can write policy, I can manage people, I can communicate with any level or age of person and I’ll decide when I leave the workforce.  This government does nothing to help older jobseekers.  They put the age of the pension up, they regurgitate a previous program that looks like they are helping, but do they offer older jobseekers work?  No they do not.  I had a federal Minister’s advisor tell me that the federal government doesn’t particularly want people over the age of 45 because they already have too many older workers.  What a joke.  You employ someone who is 45 and you will probably have them for at least 10 years.  How can the government promote older workers when they don’t practice what they preach.
Some employers are great and do realise that there are some real benefits to having the influence and experience of older workers; a diverse workforce with young and old workers is a very healthy workforce. 
Many businesses haven’t worked out yet that with an ageing population, the buyers are going to be older and in many cases don’t want 20 somethings advising them or telling how the world works.  e.g. banks, clothing, hospitality, wine shops.
Some of the comments here from the young bloggers are just ridiculous.  I would just say to you, that you will be older in the workforce one day, may you experience the discrimination older workers currently do.  What goes round comes round!!!

Terry Hayles says:

08:17am | 04/10/10

At one time, Centerlink (Dept Social Security) actually HELPED people find work. These days, their objective is supposedly “self help” and they only assist people to look for work. The outcome of this policy (especially for older people) is a regimented and ludicrous process which recognises nothing about an applicants talents. I was General Manager of a Financial Institution for many years but lost that position in a merger and was made redundant. The children at Centerlink insisted that I undertake a two week course on how to look for work….. how to write a business letter…... how to handle an interview etc.
They insisted that there was “no age discrimination” in Australia as legislation was in place to prevent it and I was forced to expend time and very scarce financial resources chasing jobs that I had no chance of securing. Any time I asked for actual assistance, I was “punished” by having to attend more useless “training” by people who had no idea what they were doing.
I am surprised that the suicide rate among Centerlink clients is as low as it is.

Loughrea lady says:

10:10am | 04/10/10

Why is it that this subject seems to be an “us versus them” situation?  surely the job should go to the person most suitable and qualified for the position (and I don’t necessarily mean academically).  I went back into the workforce, after being out of it for twenty years (raising a family) I was in my late forties and chose to work for David Jones.  (Or did they chose me) My first boss was 21 and extremely well qualified for her job.  I had no trouble taking orders from her. During my 11 years with the company I had two promotions.the first to personnel officer. With 500 on the staff, I chose prospects of all ages dependent on their attitude and experience, age played a very small part in selecting a successful canditate.  After moving out of the city (with no experience in the field,) I went to work in a big hotel. My boss (also the owner) was 23, I was treated with a great deal of respect and given every opportunity for promotion. As a senior manager I worked with all age groups from 16 year olds to 70 year olds.  Success in any business is all about teamwork,  and I found the combination of all ages worked really well.