Bring on the battle for the most generous publicly funded paid maternity leave scheme, in fact, let’s have all all out electoral bidding war on the issue with both sides throwing lots of money.

Which one of these mothers deserves more money from the government?. Picture: Ella Pellegrini.

Tony Abbott has marked International Women’s Day by announcing a proposal to introduce a scheme that would see working women paid 26 weeks of leave at their salary level at the time of the birth.

The Opposition Leader stopped short of calling his plan a policy, saying it needed work and consultation with interest groups. Lots of women will be cheering at even the mention of it so I’m loathe to talk Mr Abbott’s plan down, but there’s one thing about it that really bothers me.

Mr Abbott argued in his speech at Manly today that even the publicly-funded element of the scheme should be tied to a woman’s salary because: “That’s the only way to avoid serious stress on the family budget until both parents can resume working or until adjustments can be made to family finances.”

The Opposition Leader has some experience with sudden diminishing household income. His own salary dropped after the 2007 Election when he was no longer a Minister and he had a bit of a whinge about it. Things have since been rectified in the Abbott house by his ascension to the top job in the Coalition.

There’s an argument that women on higher incomes pay more tax and therefore should reap higher benefits.

It might be logical, but it’s not fair. If our whole tax system was based on that principal our society would end up totally out of whack.

Women (and men obviously) should be free to negotiate what ever terms they can with their employers - if you can get a generous employer-funded maternity leave scheme based on a higher-than-average income bravo.

But when it comes to a government subsidy, funded by taxpayers, I reckon all parents should be in the same boat.

I would be uncomfortable with the government paying me more or less than the woman sitting next to me at work, even if, as Mr Abbott proposes, the scheme would have a generous cap.

There’s already a simmering tension built into both the Government’s scheme, which starts on January 1 next year, and Mr Abbott’s plan, in that it appears to significantly benefit working women.

What we don’t need is a scheme that pits all women against each other in a battle to get the most out of the government.

Caring for a newborn is hard for everyone - regardless how high or low they are on the income scale.

It’s fantastic that Mr Abbott has put this out there for discussion. He promised to release a detailed policy well before the election.

Here’s a chunk of his speech.

For most Australian couples, starting a family is the realization of a long held dream but it can also be the beginning of a household financial crisis. Before most families have their first child, both parents are typically in paid work and have developed patterns of spending that take two incomes to sustain. After becoming parents, one partner usually takes at least six months off work, sometimes never returns to the workforce and often becomes a part-time earner at best. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with this. Many women (and increasing numbers of men) choose to be full time carers for their children. It’s the price people pay to be parents.

Still, the loss of income normally associated with becoming a parent is one of the reasons why some couples never have children or have fewer children than, ideally, they would like. I’m not suggesting that everyone should have children. There are all sorts of reasons why people don’t end up doing so or choose not to. Even so, there would be something odd about a society which didn’t welcome children and encourage people to have them. Apart from being the next generation of productive workers and a sign of the confidence that we have in the future, there are few people who don’t miss them regardless of the reason for their absence.

Government can’t and shouldn’t try to dictate people’s reproductive choices. Any official demand for large families would be as odious as China’s now more-or-less-abandoned one child policy. Still, having children is as much a part of life as occasionally falling sick, taking holidays at least annually, and eventually retiring. Parental leave, therefore, ought to be as much part and parcel of any decent system of employment entitlements as sick pay, holiday pay and retirement benefits, all of which, one way or another are mandated by government.

This hasn’t always been my view. It’s the position I’ve slowly come to watching the way friends and family members have struggled to combine motherhood with very demanding careers and considering the options that I would like for my own daughters. It’s not fickle to change. It’s more likely to be wisdom than weakness. In any event, on the issue of paid parental leave, I consider that I have changed my mind rather than my values. I have always placed a high value on having children but now have a better appreciation of the policies that are needed if this is to be a more realistic option.

I used to think that employers should pay parental leave if they believed that it would help them to attract and retain their workforce but that they shouldn’t be forced to by government. This is the instinctive liberal/conservative position but it doesn’t take into account the social changes of the last two generations. For economic and personal reasons, the majority of mothers-to-be will be in the workforce and institutional arrangements should evolve to reflect this new social reality.

108 comments

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    • julia says:

      03:17pm | 08/03/10

      I agree with you, Tors. But there has to be something for the people who don’t work for a good company and don’t qualify for govenrment benefits. Women make up the greatest number of small business owners in Australia.

      I’ve always thought a scheme something like the super scheme should be available to women who want to bank money to allow them to pay for their own maternity leave.

      A thoughtful woman in her 20s could put away $10/20/30 a week until she needs the money and have maternity leave money on hand. By putting it into a fund like that of super and waiving fees for withdrawal for maternity purposes (charging them for withdrawing for non-maternity purposes), they get the benefit of growth and stability. She might plan for 10 weeks maternity leave for three children.

      A ‘not-so-thoughtful’ woman could do what many almost-retirement age people do and salary sacrifice a large chunk of their salary for the scheme and pack it in in the two or three years immediately prior to having a baby. I know a lot of people have gone down to one wage in the lead up to the birth of their babies, to get ready for the year of privation and deprivation.

      A saving scheme would be a good way for women ‘of means’ to pay for their own maternity leave.

      But it would be nice if contributions could be salary sacrificed or given some sort of tax incentive. If for no other reason that for the government to thank women for being financially responsible when they’re young.

    • Zeta says:

      03:31pm | 08/03/10

      Here’s what would work better: no income tax at all. Then you could put aside upwards of 30 per cent of your income… and do whatever the hell you want with it because the Government will take it back at a rate of 10 per cent on consumer items at the point of sale. So if you save it, you won’t pay any tax until you trot down to your favourite Westfield / Drone Hive and buy a bugaboo to push your spawn around in.

    • JANA SMITHSON says:

      09:07pm | 08/03/10

      Abbott is arguing for complete compensation to be paid to stay at home carers of young children.  If a carer earns $70,000 or $50,000 or $40,000 then a proper PPL policy will only be effective if it pays the carer their actual income level for the time they stay home - anything less means the carer cant stay at home for as long.  And the fact that the employer pays for it is also fair because it is the employer who has set the carer’s wage in the first place and values their contribution to the workforce. How can paying a carer $35,000 be fair if that person actually earns $70,000?  Get real.  All women should support this policy rather than bag it.  Someone has finally raised the stakes to meaningful levels in the area of PPL.  Bravo Abbott and a big rasberry to Heather Ridout for doing Labor’s bidding yet again to knock a Liberal policy proposal.

    • Drody says:

      10:20pm | 08/03/10

      Julia I think you have it a perfect scheme everyone should back. Sorry Zeta no income tax doesn’t work your way would mean the government/tax payer is paying for it not thought out and a it silly.

    • persephone says:

      08:33am | 09/03/10

      Zeta

      basic mathematics is obviously a challenge to you.

      There is currently a 10% tax on consumer items at the point of sale.

      To use this to replace personal taxes you’d need to raise it to something like 60%.

      This might be fine for people who are paying the top rate of tax, but it would be more than a little hard on those such as pensioners who don’t pay much tax at present but do spend most of their disposable income on buying necessities.

    • Zeta says:

      03:20pm | 08/03/10

      Maternity leave should not be funded by Government. Any Government. Any time. Ever. The Government should not be involved in reproduction, at any level.

      If the Government was a human, would you have sex with it?

      Let’s say the Government is on a dating website. The Government’s profile says he is big, and is having difficulty trimming down. He’s got a lot of money to splash around, but is in a lot of debt which he has no plans for paying back. The Government breaks his promises. The Government has no sense of humour. Worse still, once you’re together, the Government will expect to live off you by taxing your income.

      So if you obviously wouldn’t have sex with the Government, why do you want the Government involved in your reproductive life at all?

    • MF says:

      03:46pm | 08/03/10

      Agreed.  As part of a (voluntarily) childless couple, I don’t see why I should be forced to pay for others CHOICE to breed.  Maternity leave should NOT be taxpayer funded.  If you can negotiate a maternity leave arrangement with your employer, great.  But it’s your choice to have kids, so it should be your financial responsibility.

      Is any side of politics EVER going to give those without kids a fair go?

    • Evan Findlay says:

      04:47pm | 08/03/10

      I wouldn’t be too concerned Zeta. This has core (pre-election), non core(post election) written all over it. Big business will register their displeasure with Tony and he will crumble. Not to mention the productivity commission will be somewhat dismayed by such a generous and unsustainable policy. Just another policy that panders to the middle class welfare brigade that will continue to drain the public purse for many decades to come. Let’s see, 30% private health rebate, baby bonuses, first home owners grant, 26 weeks paid parental leave. All unproductive and all unsustainable. Just keep throwing the money away Tony.

      I now see why he wants to bring back workchoices, business will need you to be working cheaply so that Tony can tax them to pay for all of his middle class welfare cheques.

    • IMHO says:

      05:33pm | 08/03/10

      Yawn. Another voluntary-childless-couple-why-should-I-pay-for-your-offspring rant. Yes having children is a choice (for some), but it’s also fundamentally necessary for the continued existance of the human race. So in a way, it’s not a choice like “Hmmm….will I have a latte or not today”.

      I don’t begrudge folk who don’t have children by choice. No problem. You are free to make it. Luckily for the human race you are in a minority.  But puhleeese don’t keep pretending it’s just another unimportant lifestyle choice. It’s not.

      And puhleeeese don’t go on and on about how you fund other people’s choice to have children. So what. I fund a lot of other peoples choices that I don’t particularly agree with. That’s called “living in a society”. I don’t watch much sport but I see governments throwing millions of dollars into sporting stadiums and the like. They call it investing in the future.

      Well there’s no greater investment in the human race than children, particularly children raised in a loving and ideally economically unstressed environment.

      (I have children, as I’m sure you’ve guessed)

    • Ricky says:

      05:36pm | 08/03/10

      Absolutly spot on MF.Taxpayers should not have to pay for someones lifestyle choice.If you choose to have a baby, it is YOUR responsibilty, not your employers, & NOT the taxpayers.

    • Sandra says:

      06:14pm | 08/03/10

      @ MF. “Is any side of politics EVER going to give those without kids a fair go? “

      It doesn’t look like it will. Blogger Andrew Leigh says, “In economic terms, major Australian political parties seem to think that (a) there is a positive exernality[sic] from having children, (b) people with children are somehow especially deserving of government handouts, or (c) people with children are credit-constrained.  I know of no evidence for any of these three propositions. Taxing the childless middle class in order to give cash to middle-class families with kids may be good politics, but it’s lousy economics.”

      History cannot look kindly on a nation that can protect its parents and children only by demeaning its childless citizens, by creating one set of rules for those who breed and a different set for those who do not. The reality is that pro-natalist policies that reward fecundity with cash and penalise the childless may be good politics but it is lousy economics. It is, at best, ideological and dogmatic. At worse it is little more than a poorly disguised piece of obnoxious social engineering that shrieks crude social-engineering; “if you are not married and making children, you are not worthy of being a member of society.”

    • jim says:

      06:30pm | 08/03/10

      Zeta, the Government’s responsibility is to look after us now and into the future.

      How do you possibly expect the Government to not support Breeding?

      Our Finances and our desire for our kids to be in top private schools is making it harder to consider producing more offsprings.

      What does this mean?

      It means that in the future, my kids will be pay for the roads, infrastructure…etc.

      The more kids we have now, the less burden we put our kids through and the less tax.

      The other solution Zeta, from such a low 1ntellect answer, is that we have euthanasia for any one above a certain age. Don’t like it? Then blow off… you have no idea how what the Government’s function is, don’t bring your opinion to slave everyone else.

    • KT says:

      07:36pm | 08/03/10

      MF - I take it you want society to die out with you?  Who will pay the taxes that fund health care; transport; law enforcement; road and other infrastructure when you stop paying tax?  Who will work in those industries that YOU take for granted? Who will staff the coffee shop you drink at when you stop working?  Why the hell shouldn’t you pay for the next generation and the one after that when YOU will benefit from their existance?  Your choice not to procreate, but it’s in your interest to support people who do, and do it in a manner that promotes participative (rather than antisocial) youth.

    • Cimbom says:

      07:40pm | 08/03/10

      Such a ridiculous argument MF. Do you use every single road that is paid for by taxpayer funds? Do you have every medical procedure performed on your person which is funded by Medicare? Do you use each and every other service or benefit which is government funded? If not, then why on earth is maternity leave any different? You either have it all or nothing. In a country like Australia, I don’t think government-funded maternity leave would break the budget at all.

    • Ben G says:

      08:26pm | 08/03/10

      Despite the fact that I agree with the principle point of your argument (that the government should keep away), I still have to say: That is the dumbest argument I’ve ever read.

      Here’s a tip: Instead of an ill-fitting analogy, how about you just explain your point?

    • persephone says:

      08:40am | 09/03/10

      I don’t use aged care facilities, and I have no intention (at present) of getting old.

      Therefore I should not have to fund them.

      I don’t go on overnight bushwalks, and I have no intention of getting lost in the bush.

      Therefore I should not have to fund search and rescue operations.

      Hell, I don’t like going to hospitals, I don’t want to and it is thus my firm intention never to get sick at all ever.

      I don’t like wars, either, and don’t plan to be in one, so let’s not fund the Defence Force.

      There we go, Zeta; let’s run the country on whether people plan to do something or not. It certainly would be cheaper.

      Zeta: The government has no sense of humour? WTF? What does this even mean? You want a government that sends you jokes in the mail? A stand up comedy act between Kevin and Julia? (She did one with Brumby that was quite good…) Policy announcements followed by a “Aha! Got you going!” retraction?

      That’s just a weird statement.

    • Muttley says:

      04:05pm | 09/03/10

      imho, great response.But take my advice. Dont waste your time trying to educate the self obsessed “non breeders” All they will understand is me, me,me!

    • Sandra says:

      10:24pm | 09/03/10

      @ IMHO, “But puhleeese don’t keep pretending it’s just another unimportant lifestyle choice. It’s not. “

      I will stop when your lot stop crowing santimoniously and smugly about how you are maintaining the future of the species; making future doctors/lawyers/nurses; future taxpayers who are all going to be rioting on the streets to change the nappies on incontinent old folks. It is merely faux-altruism being extolled to feebly justify your “right” to maintaining a zero sum impact on your post-natal lifestyles paid for by anyone else but you.

      Hand-ups should address socio-economic disadvantage but not maintain the lifestyles of the already comfortable. Parents should be able to access **social services** aimed at making them better parents and any reasonable person can see that such social wealth is of long term benefit to society. But don’t expect the rest of use to swallow the notion that as upholding the **private wealth** of parents is deserved as a matter of course, this can be achieved through compensatory monetary arrangement and it is be achieved by fiscally penalising the childless.

    • John A Neve says:

      03:22pm | 08/03/10

      Hurrah, here we go it’s boiled lolly time. What’s your name little girl, is that your little brother?  Have a lolly each and tell your parents to vote for me.
      Oh, are you there mother!!! You look to young, not to worry, you have another child and I’ll see you get paid for six whole months. What, you earn $150,000 per year!!! Not to worry big business will pay for that and pass it on to their consumers.

      Remember, vote fo me, my offer is far better than that other blokes.

    • Zeta says:

      03:36pm | 08/03/10

      Said the Witch to Faust on Walpurgis Night: ‘Gentlemen, don’t pass me by! Don’t miss your opportunity! Inspect my wares with careful eye; I have a great variety. And yet there is nothing on my stall…’

    • John A Neve says:

      04:18pm | 08/03/10

      Zeta,
      You never responded to my comment on our constitution!!

      Look at clause 100 on water.

    • Zeta says:

      04:44pm | 08/03/10

      @ JAN - Yeah I just shoot out mind bullets and rarely come back to see where they land.

    • Wayne Fehlhaber says:

      07:19pm | 08/03/10

      What John ?  like the computers for every school child promise. Mothers loved THAT one,  or how about a cieling full of foil batts , guaranteed to keep you warm at night, but then , the claytons pension increase was a doozy, loved THAT one too. !

    • Realist says:

      03:25pm | 08/03/10

      I think that Abbott’s policy is the best piece I’ve come across…I am cheering today!!
      Not so much for me. I already have my own children but I think this acknowledges women difference and makes a better place for future Australian mothers. Well done Mr. Abbott !

    • Evan Findlay says:

      04:34pm | 08/03/10

      formersnag, are you sure your not related to the minister for conspiracy theories, the rogue and undesirable, sorry I mean the right honourable Barnaby Joyce!

    • James1 says:

      04:54pm | 09/03/10

      Your name is always totally undermined by the things you write, formersnag.  Between which parties exactly are you swinging?

    • Dingo_aus says:

      03:47pm | 08/03/10

      Way to focus on the negative.

      I wonder if the author of the article would be so attacking towards this broad policy statement if it came out of the mouth of K Rudd or J Gillard.

      Look at the pass The Punch has given Rudd on his plan to fix health by increasing the number of government administrators.

      Whilst I don’t agree with government subsidies, the reporting of this broad policy statement from Abbott is all about the negative. [sarc] ...couldn’t possibly let the Coalition be praised, nup, must focus on the negative, only the negative. Magnify it and make sure that is all people read about. [/sarc]

    • Evan Findlay says:

      04:52pm | 08/03/10

      Maybe they have been hanging around Abbott too long hey Dingo. His negativity must be rubbing off.

    • BULMKT says:

      03:47pm | 08/03/10

      If small business has to pony up for this socialist scheme then I can tell you females will become a rare species in small business.

    • susie says:

      02:37pm | 09/03/10

      The proposal was to increase corporate tax by 1.7 per cent on all taxable company income of more than $5 million. Most small businesses wouldn’t have a taxable company income of $5 million, so they probably won’t have to ‘pony up’ anything. And anyway, I thought Laborites loved ‘socialist schemes’ .......

    • George says:

      04:11pm | 08/03/10

      No maternity Leave - Aussies whinge!
      13 weeks unpaid maternity Leave - Aussies whinge!
      26 weeks paid maternity Leave - Aussies whinge!
      26 weeks paid maternity leave at salary level - Aussies whinge!

      @Tors - another Abbott hater going off so late in the afternoon?  I would have prefered you comment on the Oscars at this time of the day!

    • BULMKT says:

      04:15pm | 08/03/10

      I knew Rudd was a Progressive, but I didn’t think (until now) that Abbott is one too. This is a bad policy.
      Abbott proposes a 1.7% levy (TAX) on any company with a taxable income over $5m. If this is introduced it’s only a matter of time before ALL companies pay this levy. Stop calling it a levy - it’s a f’n tax!
      This is the type of socialist policy you’d expect to come from Europe, not the conservative force in Australian politics. This is a bad policy, Mr Abbott.
      So if a woman should have more than one baby, does that mean they get 6mths off for each one?
      Unless Mr. Abbott is going to lower the company tax rate, then this a terrible policy.
      If small business has to pony up for this socialist scheme then I can tell you females will become a rare if not an extinct species in small business.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      04:55pm | 08/03/10

      I agree BULMKT. To quote the author of this policy Mr Abbott, “A great big new tax”

    • Cimbom says:

      07:45pm | 08/03/10

      The Liberals are not a conservative party in any real sense of the world. There is a world of difference between them and say the US Republican Party.

    • svend says:

      08:44pm | 08/03/10

      Thats why you make it parental leave. The 26 weeks can be shared by the mother and father in any way they see fit. Would that then make both males and females of a child bearing age *.. a rare if not extinct species in small business*?

      Those bloody Europeans. Some of them even provide free tertiary education (what a stoopid idea eh?).

    • bec says:

      04:18pm | 08/03/10

      But if we’re pitted against each other, will we have tridents and spears? Greco-roman wrestling or anything-goes-but-fishhooking? WE NEED TO KNOW THIS.

    • Zeta says:

      04:58pm | 08/03/10

      No wrestling. Maybe tridents. The Larinum decree by Tiberius banned senators’ daughters, granddaughters and great-granddaughters, and “any female whose husband or father or grandfather, whether paternal or maternal or brother had ever possessed the right of sitting in the seats reserved for the equites” from training or making paid appearances as gladiators.

      Later, Romans would ban female appearances outright, even though they were commonly used in reference to Sarmatian and Iberian charioteers, who were known to field thier women as archers.

      It was, and unless I’m mistaken, remains, still legal for women to fight dwarves. Titus Flavius Caesar Domitianus Augustus was known to have women fight dwarves under torchlight after dark. And Lucius Domitius Ahenobarbus, better known as Nero had a penchant for taking Senator’s wives and forcing them to fight in the Arenas.

      At any rate, even where a woman was permitted to fight, it was highly impractical to have her wrestle in the manner of a hoplomachus. More likely they’d have used a net and trident.

      tl;dr - You’ll either have to fight dwarves, or stab each other through nets.

    • bec says:

      07:56am | 09/03/10

      That is more awesome than I’d ever hoped for. Midget wrestling ftw.

    • Super D says:

      05:16pm | 08/03/10

      I think maternity leave payments should be the same for everyone, not higher for higher income earners but certainly not means tested either - nor should current childcare benefits be tested either.  Take the baby bonus for example - now only available to people who earn less than 150k per year.  Sounds pretty reasonable but then again if you’re earning $150k then in all likelihood you will have paid over $200k in tax already with more to come.  In this light $5k off your tax bill in the year you have a child doesn’t seem quite so generous. 

      Income redistribution should be kept out of maternity / childcare policies.

    • DocBud says:

      06:47pm | 08/03/10

      “I think maternity leave payments should be the same for everyone,”

      Couldn’t agree more, they should be zero for everyone.

    • Eric says:

      05:46pm | 08/03/10

      Why is everyone assuming this proposal is about maternity leave? Here’s Abbot’s actual quote from the linked article:

      “Every woman who is in the workforce before the birth of her child should have the option of six months’ parental leave or of a similar option for her partner.”

      Even though Abbott mentions women specifically, he makes it clear that the programme would apply to men as well. Now, I neither support nor oppose this policy, but at least it’s non-sexist on the face of it. And that’s a big step forward.

    • Dave says:

      05:46pm | 08/03/10

      I think the concept is OK. It all depends on what you are trying to achieve. Parents who have higher education and better paid jobs are unfortunately also more reluctant to have children. Yet statistically these are the kinds of households where children do best. Perhaps there should be some additional incentive for people paid above the minimum wage to have children. Perhaps not their full salary but something more to support their larger mortgages etc.
      Then again there is the valid argument about why should the tax payer fund other people’s life style choices?
      Personally I support paid parental leave funded by the tax payer but it must be equal for mum and dad. We must do more to encourage active fathering.

    • Sally says:

      06:15pm | 09/03/10

      Dave you’re spot on. Unfortunately those of us who have spent tens of thousands on tertiary quals are less likely to spawn repeatedly. And when we do, we’re older and financially stable to begin with so we generally don’t need govt support.

      Having said that, why should people who work hard and do well be penalised? I’ve paid taxes for 22 years (estimated amount of about $250k) and my hubby has done the same. We have an 8 year old child, but have never received a red cent in financial support. Where is all of this money that childless people keep telling me is thrown willy nilly at us ‘breeders’ because honestly, I reckon I’m entitled to a slice of the action?

      And PS - if you’re obese or a smoker, why am I paying a medicare levy to support your lifestyle choices?

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      05:49pm | 08/03/10

      Here we go, another way to screw the singles and childless couples. After paying for government funded maternity leave, pension increases, bloated health system, increased electoral allowances and all the other government funded rorts and welfare, it’s probably more cost effective to go on the dole and not pay taxes. Where’s the loony Tea Party when you need them?

    • Daniel says:

      05:59pm | 08/03/10

      I thought it was core policy in the Liberal party to have a dog eat dog situation.This is just a continuing on that theme.What else would people expect from them?

    • Neil Newton says:

      05:59pm | 08/03/10

      It is amazing that Australia poorly lags behind developing countries in paying maternity leave benefits for women.  Working Australian women must be paid maternity leave ewual to their salary. Non-working Australian women should not be paid maternity leave because they are not working in the first place so do not pay income taxes to the Government while working women pay income tax.

    • Kika says:

      06:00pm | 08/03/10

      Seriously, I don’t get what the issue is. The system is to scrap the baby bonus. Why should people already on welfare be rewarded for procreating? Every other developed country has a paid maternity scheme except ours and the USA. AND THATS something to be proud of, isn’t it? Even NZ has a scheme.  The issue is - there are many workplaces who don’t offer paid maternity leave. An example - this workplace used to offer women who went on unpaid maternity leave for 12 months the option of coming back part time. A long time employee recently had a baby and when 12 months came up, asked her boss whether she could come back part time. He said No. No reason given. She told him she couldn’t possibly afford to work full time and pay for childcare. he didn’t care. She quit. This is why we need maternity leave scheme. To alleviate the pressures on both business and families and to create a better worklife balance for us all! It needs to be from the gov’t.

    • Scott says:

      06:04pm | 08/03/10

      Let me put up an argument. If it had not been for all us being greedy and wanting everything yesterday, and to ‘own’ multiple homes. We would not be having these arguments. If anyone believes that we have a better standard of living than we did in the yrs prior to THE Whitlam yrs must have their noses too close to the southern end of a north bound camel. When we lost the ability to service a mortgage on a single average wage, we started to go backwards with our standard of living. Now this is not an argument that women should not work, the argument is about the choice of being able to service normal debt (mortgage) on a single income. Once housing prices became out of that reach, that is when the chouce was gone. After that there was no choice. you had to have 2 incomes to be approved for a mortgage. it started initally with upto 20% of the 2nd inc, then it went to 30%, and kept climbing until now 100% of both incomes are need to get a mortgage.. Now clarification, I am a 44 yr old male from a standard 60’s family of 3 kids. ONE average income. my parents did a bloody good job of paying off a mortgage, putting healthy and plentiful food on the table, and we had real holidays about every 18mths,.  nothing wrong with that.

    • Sandra says:

      10:53pm | 09/03/10

      See Scott, that was in your day. Modern families have different “needs” now—haven’t you been paying attention?

      In less than a generation family size has fallen by about one child, but the number of rooms required in a typical family home has increased. A generation ago the typical house was 3 bedrooms, a family bathroom and a combined living/dining room. Most families had one car, and if they had 2, the second was a generation old. There was no cable internet, no weekly trips to cafes, no air-con. Children shared bedrooms and the television – if there was one – was in the living room.

      Today, status requires both parents to work so that the family has four wheel drives for both mum and dad, an air-conditioned 4 or 5 bedroom house in a “nice” suburb, with 2 or 3 bathrooms, study and family room that occupies the entire block of land together with the lastest mod-cons. The VCR has given way to the DVD player which, in turn, has given way to the Blu-ray complete with the cinema quality sound system. The mantel radio was superseded by the black-n-white telly, the colour teev and now the must-have LCD widescreen TVs. Plural, you understand. The WalkMan cassette player has been replaced by the Mini-Disc and now, the ubiquitous I-Pod. The walk to the neighbourhood phone-box fell to the commonality of the fixed-line phone which has been superseded by cordless phones and/or the internet and now it is normal to assign mobile handsets to all family members. The trend in the latest whizz-bang and fashionable gadgetry sees the “must-have” household items superseded on an almost exponential level.

      Most people these days keep themselves dissatisfied with their income by always comparing themselves with people who have more and never with people who have less —who they rarely see up close.

      People are living well beyond their means and they expect to live beyond their means because they think it is their “right”.

    • Dr John says:

      06:07pm | 08/03/10

      This is what us punters have been waiting for - Mad Monk has finally come out with half a policy and what a shocker it is - a BIG NEW TAX that will be passed onto small business and taxpayers.!
      Fancy the Business Council even agreeing it is crap!
      What about the negative effect on female employment also - phew!

    • craig says:

      06:14pm | 08/03/10

      i think this is a great idea. At the moment Big business and government has a hiring advantage over small business, in that they can offer the best conditions salary and leave, this will equal the playing field , without costing small business anything . 26 weeks at the minimum pay would make it diffcult for most working women to survive, we need more children and we need those children to be well looked aftered and cared for. This also rewards women who work hard and improve their skils training and careers and doesnt reward those who want to rely on centrelink and the government
      I cant see any thing to whinge about in this policy balanced , rewarding hard work and very liberal . well done Tony

    • jim says:

      06:39pm | 08/03/10

      Maternity leave should be the same for balance. Otherwise it’s clearly open for fraud.

      Whose to say, that I could create a high-risk High return company, And Oh, the CFO aka my wife is having a baby, whom happens to earn 150K per year…

      thats better than lottery

      If you going for maternity leave, and you have a salary over $150K, then you should be planning out your finances.

      Still, maternity leave is long overdue. I pay my taxes like very ordinary Australian. The worst part of it all was when I had my first kid, and we were struggling.

      In time when my kid reaches adulthood, she’ll be paying taxes for all the cringes and whingers that go against maternity leave.

      But thats ok, after one generation they’ll be gone.

    • Gerry says:

      07:29pm | 08/03/10

      So next we can expect the pension to be tied to what you earned previously perhaps.

    • eye4aneye says:

      07:33pm | 08/03/10

      Don’t mind the policy though I won’t be holding my breath for it to be implemented (and when it is will be interesting to see what it turned into going through the political machine).

      I would like to see the 26 weeks maternity leave change to 26 weeks parental leave (to be split however the relevant couple choose) so that male partners can also take some paid leave to be part of the occasion.

      This of course is then open to abuse with the higher paid parent taking all the leave etc. so I’d suggest a level payment (average wage sounds fair and reasonable - though it will never pass as the government of either stripe would be hoping that those taking advantage of the scheme are lower income earners)

    • p says:

      07:42pm | 08/03/10

      Just allow women to claim back a little of the tax they paid in previous years when they have a child - on the basis that they now have a dependent.

    • Maureen Johnson says:

      08:46pm | 08/03/10

      So sad to tell you this but, from my 54 years observation of our patriarchal society, they “women” have already been pitted against each other in one way or another for at least 2000 years of recorded history.

    • John. says:

      09:08pm | 08/03/10

      It won’t happen - it is just another Tony Abbott lie to try & get more votes.

    • Ipaytax2 says:

      09:16pm | 08/03/10

      Here’s a thought for all the “why do I have to pay for someone elses kids”. If a woman works up until the birth, she’s been paying taxes. If she goes back to work after 6 months, she’ll be paying taxes again! So get off your sanctimoniuos high horses.

    • Macca says:

      04:32pm | 09/03/10

      Agreed, In fact, I’m fairly certain I pay for lots of things I don’t use right now, such as Trains or Schools… or the ABC.

    • Danielle says:

      09:30pm | 08/03/10

      No one mentions it.

      But all of this inequality would be avoided if men had a greater role in parenting. If you’re going to introduce paid maternity leave, then you should also be introducing paid paternity leave.

      Or better yet - call it paid “parental” leave. Stuff all this crap about women not being hired because they might have to be a primary carer for a minimum of 3 months. It’s 3-6 months in a very long working life!! Everyone get over the gender differences and realise that such inequality wouldn’t be occurring if people recognised the role of a father in parenting. Where is their paternity leave?

    • L James R says:

      10:44pm | 08/03/10

      This heavily opinionated article is not worthy of a response.  In lieu, I will leave you with the words of Mark Twain (from a speech in February 1873) to ponder upon - ‘I am personally acquainted with hundreds of journalists, and the opinion of the majority of them would not be worth tuppence in private, but when they speak in print it is the newspaper that is talking (the pygmy scribe is not visible) and then their utterances shake the community like the thunders of prophecy.’

    • john muller says:

      11:35pm | 08/03/10

      Tony abbott has hit buisness with a big tax. Jobs could be lost giving help to rich families and for got about the low paid families they wont get 75 thousand when they are on leave dont trust him it is a con.

    • persephone says:

      08:43am | 09/03/10

      A Great Big Tax, in fact.

    • Not a militant parent says:

      12:14am | 09/03/10

      What about all the single women out there? Or people who don’t have children? I am quite happy to pay for the education and medical care of our next generation through my taxes, but this is getting a bit crazy!

      If you want children, then do what most of my friends have done and plan and pay for it yourselves.

      I have a dog whom I love as if he were my child (and no - not a substitute for a real child! No ticking clock here!), but no one else pays for him. I pay his pet insurance, I pay for his meals, I had to run around and pay for someone to look after him after his surgery, I take him for walks and behavioural training.. all of this by myself!

      So - you learn to pay for the basics including taking time off to care for your own children (and let’s face it - it’s not a job like cleaning out a sewer - it’s a time of bonding and joy!) and I’ll help you pay for the health and education as an ordinary member of society. If you can’t afford it, perhaps you shouldn’t be having children.

      Oh - and by the way, there are plenty of children you can adopt out there - resulting in less burden in respect of maternity costs!

    • persephone says:

      08:47am | 09/03/10

      Your dog is not going to be looking after you in your old age, thus saving the average taxpayer a boodle.

      Your dog, for that matter, won’t be paying taxes to help subsidise your care.

      We won’t be forced to supplement the lacked of well trained and intelligent dogs in the community by importing a doggy workforce from overseas.

      Whereas if you had a child, they would take some responsibility for your future, care, would be paying taxes which would help support your needs and would be in the workforce, negating the need to ‘import’ someone overseas to take up that particular position.

      And no, there aren’t plenty of children to adopt. Even going the overseas option is very costly and time consuming.

    • halberstram says:

      11:25am | 09/03/10

      “Your dog is not going to be looking after you in your old age, thus saving the average taxpayer a boodle.”

      The idea that we need to support people having children so we have a population of workers to look after us in old-age is a nonsense.

      I’ve never heard any middle-class parent hoping their children grow up to be aged-care workers have you?

      That wouldn’t be aspirational enough.

      No. We “import” workers from poorer countires to do that dirty work.

      So , at least, spare us that old argument .

    • persephone says:

      12:29pm | 09/03/10

      Children look after their parents in their old age without being aged care workers.

      So my mother lives with my sister, who make sure that she’s mobile, knows where her contact lenses are and buys her shopping.

      If my sister had never been born, mum would be in some kind of aged care facility or being provided with some kind of home care, costing society money.

      So - for a relatively little on her part - my sister saves other taxpayers thousands of dollars a year.

      And all of her children pay taxes, which support the medical system my mother makes increasing use of.

      So, no, parents don’t have children for these reasons, but governments recognise that there are benefits to people having children.

    • James1 says:

      05:05pm | 09/03/10

      You come across so bitter, sad and angry.  I really pity people like you.

    • Brett says:

      06:04pm | 09/03/10

      Are you sure it’s not a cat? I would have put money on it being a cat!

    • Sandra says:

      12:51am | 16/05/10

      “If my sister had never been born, mum would be in some kind of aged care facility or being provided with some kind of home care, costing society money.”

      So what you are admiting perse is that even though your mother has at least TWO daughters, one of them will shove her into an oldies’ home. Kinda disproves your claim that “Children look after their parents in their old age without being aged care workers. ”

    • Sandra says:

      12:55am | 16/05/10

      “You come across so bitter, sad and angry.  I really pity people like you. “

      James1, I sensed no bitterness, sadness nor anger in Not a militant parent’s post . Any reasonable person would concur.

      I think you are another one of those child-burded types wishfully hallucinating the pervasive myth of the bitter lonely spinster. Or, more likley, projecting your own child-burdened misery and envy.

    • Dan says:

      03:00am | 09/03/10

      Parents always say their children are the most important thing in their life and they would never choose to not have them.  So clearly we DON’T need any kind of paid leave to keep people breeding.  They’re happy to do it all on their own accord. 

      More importantly, having kids is clearly a personal choice that people WANT to do and the rest of us shouldn’t have to pay breeders who want to be stay-at-home mums all the time. 

      The argument that having kids is contributing to society is also pure rubbish.  First of all, I’ve never heard a parent say they’re happy to be contributing to society by having a child.  Parents, especially mothers, only ever talk about how happy it makes THEM and how much money they get in tax benefits and baby bonuses.  Any parent who uses the excuse about helping society by breeding is being utterly facetious.

    • persephone says:

      08:55am | 09/03/10

      Lots of people do things because they enjoy them but which have the side effect of being good for society.

      When a behaviour is good for society, it obviously should be supported/encouraged.

      Yes, most people, once they have children, are delighted to have had them and are willing to make financial sacrifices to do so. But someone who hasn’t had them yet does take their financial situation into account (as any sensible person would) and it is a proven deterrent for them.

      At present, we have over 130 000 immigrants a year. They are welcome, and one of the reasons they have been welcomed since 1947 was the recognition that we simply don’t have enough people to run our society properly.

      If you believe it’s better to have less migration and more native born Australians, then you should support any measure which encourages Australian couples (of whatever ethnic origin) to have children.

    • clara says:

      03:54am | 09/03/10

      Uh Gerry, that’s how it works in developed nations.  Your pension is directly related to what you earnt during your working years, how much tax you paid and the number of years you worked.  How unfair is that.

    • Heather says:

      09:14am | 09/03/10

      I have a better plan. Every employee pays a small proportion of their salary into an insurance fund, say about $5 per week. Then this would go to pay for maternity leave AND unemployment benefits, for a maximum period, say six months, and with a cap on payments - eg if you earn 200K pa, you don’t get paid the pro rate equivalent! And if you take your six months, for whatever purpose, you can’t take another six months until you have built the fund up again. That way, only the genuinely needy would get government welfare, and everyone else’s unemployment/ decision to stay at home with children etc, would be self funded. I think this scheme is current in Canada, and it works very well there.

    • Bluey says:

      09:24am | 09/03/10

      He he he. Took a leaf outa Persephone’s book. What does Heather Ridout think of “Straight Talk” Abbott’s Great Big New Tax?

      Havenb’t bothered to look yet? Yeah, right. Typical lazy Libs. OK, I’ll tell ya.

      Bad Leave Policy. Bad Tax Policy. Inequitable. She said it!

      Course, what would she know, eh. Bet she’s just another commie plant, hey. Just too bad she’s head of the Aussie Industry Group!

      See ya!

    • Dick J says:

      10:54am | 09/03/10

      I don’t know about the imposition paroll tax by other states (other than NSW) but it would be a better policy and more palatable for business if his policy was dependant upon the state(s) abolishing paroll taxeswhich are simply a tax on employment.

    • NoMrAbbott says:

      11:11am | 09/03/10

      I have posted in the wrong place but I can tell you as of today my buisness will not be employing women under 45 years of age. 6 months is way to long, it will cost me to train temp staff for a period of approximatly one month untill they feel confident and I feel confident with them doing the job. I will have to provide uniforms and I suppose do a mountain of paperwork. Fortunatly when Mr Abbott removes the unfair dismisal laws I can terminate all child bearing age employees and employ older staff.
      Big Buisness sponsors alot sporting events ect in Australia and a big givers to charity, I think you may find that all stops and I am sure many companies will simply relocate overseas. Once they leave this burden will be on the taxpayer.

    • Genius says:

      04:55pm | 09/03/10

      No mention of the disastrous effect of long service leave though hey?

    • halberstram says:

      11:19am | 09/03/10

      Supporters of tax-payer funded parental leave frequently cite the heavy cost of maintaining a mortgage and the requirment of two incomes.

      And that is my problem with tax-payer funded parental leave ( and the Family Tax Benefit when I think about it) .

      It goes to subsidise the accumulation of a private asset - one that sits outside of the taxation system and all the long-term benefits that incurs.

      I have no problems with taxes supporting community assets - schools, hosptials, playgrounds, librarys etc that are significantly utilised by children.

      But to subsidise the accumulation of private assets without any recourse to their capital growth is absurd and unequitable.

      Better to scrap the lot ( parental leave, familty tax benefits, childcare rebates) and distribute the proceeds equally across the community via tax reduction.

      Then people can choose how they balance their “potfolio” including making provision for time off work to raise their children.

      No one could argue with that approach.

    • Sandra says:

      10:40pm | 09/03/10

      Well said.

      Parents should be able to access **social services** such as schools, cheaper obstetrics, medical care, dental care for their children and education aimed at making them better parents and I have no argument that social wealth is of long term benefit to society.  But it seems the middle-class child-makers assert that upholding the private wealth of parents is deserved as a matter of course, this can be achieved through compensatory monetary arrangements and it is morally acceptable—even best achieved— to fiscally penalise the childless to achieve this.

      Without a hint of irony, it seems the voices of those who argue against the notion that children are a private good and insist they are social goods are, incongruously,  supporters of private welfare – in the form of taxpayer-funded cash handouts —for parents and they seem to revile social support such as government supplied services for mothers and their children. How incongruous.

      It is telling that middle-class Australia did not so much as blink an eye at the imposition of conditional welfare for the genuinely disadvantaged such as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders, single parents and the long-term unemployed. Yea verily, they encouraged it, applauded it and made the usual ruminations about dole-bludgers, unmarried slurry mums, black-bashing and the like. Yet it seems that married middle class mothers are the special exception to the rule. Hand these ladies an unconditional and non-means tested wad of cash and the magic of perfect breast-fed baby bonding and child-raising and will simply come to fruition. Class warfare much?

      The bottom line is that despite all of the endless hand-wringing and angst about the state of the nation’s children, assistance isn’t being directed toward kids at the greatest risk. It’s a charade designed by and for middle-class child-makers who aren’t thrilled with the consequences of their own choices, who either feel guilty that they don’t spend enough time with their children or are irate at the financial impact that children have on them after having lived as DINKS – and who, after decades of funding welfare for the poor, no matter how parsimonious, are demanding theirs.

    • iansand says:

      11:24am | 09/03/10

      Populist and needing a Great Big New Tax.

      This is a policy from a man who knows he won’t be PM after the next election.

    • John says:

      11:43am | 09/03/10

      I love Tony Abbott’s idea, what a great way for some of us to get some free money again. Here is how the rort will work:
      My wife and I are planning on having another baby next year, but although she is a stay at home mum already, I’ll put her on the payroll of my roof insulation company, and pretend to pay her $150K a year. I know she will have to pay tax on that, but I get the tax deduction for employing her, so it does not really cost us any money.
      So when the time comes for maternity leave the Liberal government will pay my wife $75K just like that (6 months of $150K per year).
      Now I know we got to pay tax on that $75K probably, but with a bit of negative gearing fudging on our so-called rental property (aka the beach house), we might even get to keep all the money.
      So thanks Mr Abbott for the idea.
      PS: Shame the other 95% of the population can’t use this rort, but the money has to come from somewhere.

      Cheers smile

    • Ben says:

      03:51pm | 10/03/10

      Do you seriously believe that the government will be taking your word on her income? 

      “Hmm, another person claiming to earn $150,000, let’s just have a quick look at last year’s return.  Hmm, nothing there.  Hmm, nothing from the year before either.  That’s strange.  Maybe we’ll contact the business owner to see what this person does to earn $150,000 per annum.  Well, apparently she has started answering phones for her husband, at a rate of $60 per hour…  Let me just check my little black book of market rates for administration employees.  Hmm, that’s weird, normal market rate is only $15 per hour.  Well maybe the business really needs someone at this rate to answer phones, I’ll just double check to make sure that a new employee will be hired at $60 per hour to replace her when she takes her leave…  Hmm, very interesting…”

      I can just see you now, looking after your children as a single father, whilst your wife serves out her gaol sentence.  Enjoy!

    • Sandra says:

      12:43am | 16/05/10

      Awww come now Ben, John runs a roof insulation company! Since when has anyone heard of any roof insulation businesses rorting the government’s handouts?  Sheesh!

    • Alien R says:

      01:04pm | 09/03/10

      My husband and I sat back last night thinking of those who won’t be voting for Tony Abott
      Disabled pensioners with muscular or skeleton injuries
      Their carers
      The unemployed his idea is to hold back half of their income for food I have no idea how that will work but am assuming its something along the lines of food stamps.
      Small business who this scheme will affect, I suspect young women may find it hard to get a job
      Big business who feel they should not have to pay
      Baby Boomers like my husband and myself who grudging accepted working till 67 under Mr Rudd and only because we lost so much of our super in the Global Financial Crisis. But we will not vote to work till 70 years old under Mr Abbot
      Any worker who protested about Work Choice, no one like to lose time off work, only for this to be bought back again under another name.
      Older Australians who managed to have their children without any help from anyone and raise them very well at that. They could not even get a small pension rise from the Liberal Government, there last rise was in 1972 from Whitlam.
      We may be wrong but I have found that people vote on issues that affect them.
      I suspect companies like Coles and Woolworths who I suspect may be asked to pay this tax will simply pass it on to us by raising food prices. Both companies are big employers of women.

    • Muzza says:

      03:50am | 10/03/10

      This is an excellent idea! If this is run in conjunction with scrapping the baby bonus it will enocurage smart people like you to have more babies rather than encouraging the single mums with 4 kids each to different fathers to have more babies. Well done!

    • Debs says:

      01:11pm | 09/03/10

      I thought this is what Centrelink and the Baby Bonus is for.  Parents with 2 incomes recieve more family payments from the government than single parents so why should they be getting anything else?? Be able to afford your kids or dont breed

    • Jen from Nana Glen says:

      02:04pm | 09/03/10

      I think some of you are missing the point.  When dinosaurs roamed the earth, at my work place girls had to leave when they got married.  No such thing as maternity leave.

      So all of you be appreciative that as a society we have matured.  Now in that same organization, one of the first to have equal pay for women, you can get married and have children - all while having a viable career.  My career the Army.  With paid Mat Leave, plus long service leave at half pay, plus annual leave I was able to breast feed for quite a while and have time to find a decent carer for the baby.

      So good on Tony for supporting Australians to have more Australians.

    • GreenedOut says:

      02:09pm | 09/03/10

      Turned on the news to see Bob Brown applauding this move by Abbott. I felt disgusted. I am just going to vote Labor. The Greens seem to have lost their common sense, they are getting as bad as that silly Steve Feilding

    • Sickofem says:

      02:14pm | 09/03/10

      I am a single male aged 53 years old, I am fed up with my taxes paying for other peoples kids. The singles of Australia pay and get nothing in return. You people need to do, as generations have done before you. Pay for yourselves and your children. To lady in the Army, that’s you career choice and having a child was your choice. It is not the problem or responsibility of us all. If you can’t find carers for these children, don’t have them until you know you have support. Or find the hired help at your own expense.

    • James1 says:

      05:09pm | 09/03/10

      Here is what happens if you don’t have children - you end up bitterly complaining about a portion of your money going to people who need it.

    • Sandra says:

      10:44pm | 09/03/10

      @ James1, all I seem to hear are parents whining about how haaaaaaaaaard it is to maintain the mortgage on one wage and how haaaaaaaaard it is to raise kids and how haaaaaaaaard things are for parents…blah blah blah.

      If parenting is so awful, then don’t do it. No-one is forcing you.

    • Bluey says:

      02:25pm | 09/03/10

      Alien, like ya work. Just add, any Aussie with enough brains to have a look for facts instead of the Libs sloppy bulldust. Any Aussie who’s a wake-up to Alan BS Jones and cheap Tele BS,

    • Macca says:

      04:18pm | 09/03/10

      Like an ACTU Anti-Workchoices campaign?

      Sorry, my mistake, thats expensive BS, not cheap.

    • Bluey says:

      03:03pm | 09/03/10

      I’m only a single old bloke. I’m gettin by. I don’t vote for me. I vote for me country.

      I vote for kids, we need ‘em. I vote for fair work and fair tax, cos we all deserve ‘em. I vote for fair school and fair health, cos we all need em. I vote for good unis and good defence, not cos I need em but cos we all need em.  I’ll vote for an ETS cos I know what it means for our kids kids. And yep, I’ll vote for young Mums if they need a hand.  I’ll vote for all that and I’ll pay me share of fair tax too.

      I’ve done me fair share of work and I look after meself. I won’t vote for no party that brags, fingerwags and buckets our dough to them that are doin fine already. I won’t vote for no party that fibs in office and out.

      I vote for me country, for people doin it tougher than me. Always have, always will. So I’ll vote for the one party that has a bit of a go for everybody, even if they make a blue or two. I’ll vote Labor.

      You Libs, give it a rest. Ya ain’t gunna tell me how to think. Ya aint gunna tell me any more of ya rotten fibs. Try and learn a bit while ya here, ya dills. From Persephone and like her. Right now ya couldn’t tell the truth if it bit ya on the bum.

    • Bluey says:

      05:28pm | 09/03/10

      Oh bewdy. Ta, needed a belly laugh. Put me on to the local loony Aussie Fascist Party, will ya? In ya dreams, pal.

      Tell us all about the NSW Sec of ya party Mate. Tell us all about the Klan while ya at it.

      What total bulldust, should be ashamed of yaself. I’m an Aussie, mate. Keep ya pretend prancing fascist party.  Jeeze, I tell ya, ya wouldn’t know the truth if it bit ya on the bum.

    • Dr John says:

      05:31pm | 09/03/10

      Loved it Bluey - talk about cuttin’ to the chase!
      Would you like to do a political advertisement?

    • Tim says:

      07:02pm | 09/03/10

      If you are going to have children, you need to prepare yourself financially for the burden that having children brings.  What these policies promote is a distinct lack of willingness to take responsibility for ones actions. 
      If you think that you, by right, should live the same lifestyle as a DINK when you have children and have that lifestyle subsidised by the Govt you are the selfish one.
      Having children means making sacrifices. My parents never received handouts when they had me or my sister. Most parents of those posting here never received handouts.  They made do with what they had.

    • Bluey says:

      07:13pm | 09/03/10

      He he he. Mate, not if ya paid me.

      Ask someone who needs the work.

      And doesn’t do bulldust.

    • Bluey says:

      07:57pm | 09/03/10

      Tim and his sister musta been born before 1941 then. Or he’s forgotten child endowment, eh.  Yep, Child Endowment. Look it up.

      “1941 From July Child Endowment was paid direct to the mother, at a flat rate of five shillings per week for each child after the first under the age of 16 years.”  And lemme tell ya, five bob in 1941 was real money.

      Went on til Family Allowance came in in the 70s. And whose idea was that, do you reckon? Anyone? Tim? C’mon, Tim, speak up!

      No? OK, I’ll tell ya. Menzies, mate. That’s who. 1941, Child endowment. And then Fraser, mate. That’s who. 1976, Family Allowance.  Crikey. Now there’s a selfish and irresponsible policy, eh. 

      And where was that hidden away? In secret Labor-stooge cheat sheets, eh! Must be! How else could poor old Blue know such a thing!

      Well, I’ll tell ya how. Child Endowment. My old Mum got it for me and my brother, and we got by. So used me brain, tapped away, and bap, up pops the Parliament site, here:
      http://www.aph.gov.au/library/pubs/online/children_partb.htm

      Jeeze, I dunno.  This’d be almost fun if it wasn’t so bloody sad. You Lib supporters. Never check the facts until ya get caught out, eh. Crikey.

    • Muzza says:

      03:56am | 10/03/10

      Great to see a Labor man here Bluey! You have really raised the atmosphere here to a new level! The sad thing is that you almost make sense!

    • Bluey says:

      08:17am | 10/03/10

      Well, mate, Tim said it!
      “My parents never received handouts when they had me or my sister.”
      Nup, not unless he’s not an Aussie, or unless his birthday is before July 1941. After that, his Mum sure did get paid. Child Endowment . Every week. So did mine.

      Tim reckons “Most parents of those posting here never received handouts.” 
      Nup, again. Anyone after 1976 got Family Allowance. 

      So does that make sense, Muzza? Hey?  Got a problem with that, have ya?

      And yes I vote Labor. So what? Anyone can lookup this stuff. Look and learn, sunshine. Even you Libs can try and check ya facts before ya post.

    • formersnag the swinging voter. says:

      01:20pm | 10/03/10

      alright bluey, so ya don’t like the AFP. I thought they might appeal to you because unlike the red/green/labour coalition they don’t have an anti jobs, anti industry policy.

      http://www.democrats.org.au/

      http://www.familyfirst.org.au/

      How do you feel about paedophiles or the people who protect them?

      http://www.heineraffair.info/

      Child abuse is not high on my agenda. That is why i will never support the red/green/labour coalition. Didn’t comment on that one did you.

    • Tim says:

      09:42pm | 10/03/10

      1. I’m a Labor supporter
      2. I was referring to Government funded maternity leave, not Family Assistance.
      3. I have not issues with Family Assistance. I just don’t agree to paying for somebody’s maternity leave.  I think it should be between the person and their employer and that they should plan in advance for the circumstances of having a child.  Not rely on tax payer funds.

 

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