Update 9:15PM: Appearing on Sky News this evening the crucial three independents Bob Katter, Rob Oakeshott and Tony Windsor say they still have not made up their minds over which party to support.  It continues.

Tasmanian independent Andrew Wilkie’s decision to side with Julia Gillard’s Labor Government is not surprising.

The intelligence officer turned Iraq war whistler blower was basically labelled a clear and present danger to national security by the Howard Government, formally had a fling with The Greens and now holds what is usually a safe Labor seat – hardly paints the picture of someone who would hand Government to the Coalition. Like the laughable attempt by Bob Brown to tell us the day after the election the Greens could side with any party, Wilkie’s decision ended what was a series of false flirtations with Tony Abbott.

But by revealing that Tony Abbott, like Dr Evil making an ambit claim, was willing to write a $1 billion cheque for Royal Hobart Hospital, Wilkie could have done more damage to Abbott than anything Treasury can come up with.

With the debate over the Coalition’s costings blowout sounding like an argument between quantum physicists in complexity and rhetoric (Do black holes exist? How are they made? What’s Joe Hockey doing there?), the hospital promise crystallises the attack on Abbott and would raise all sorts of questions in the minds of the other independents.

If the problems with the costing form the backbone of a complex attack on the Abbott’s economic credentials, then the Royal Hobart promise is a nice picture book that everyone will understand: the guy was willing to give me billion dollars just like that.

Wilkie went on to label the promise as generous, but felt it “unethical” to accept it. This criticism is somewhat disingenuous from someone who had the hospital number one on his list of pork barrel demands in his negotiations.

Abbott gave in to a demand while attempting to outbid the competition. It may have been an irresponsible promise, but then again, going around with a list of expensive demands because you hold the balance of power could be viewed as irresponsible as well.

At any rate it will stick to Abbott, as well it should.

For her part the Prime Minister will cough up $100 million immediately and $565 million eventually for the hospital, 60 per cent of which would be covered by the Commonwealth.

Gillard has also promised to bring forward $1.8 billion worth of funds for rural hospitals around Australia, but it’s unclear exactly when this would happen.

Wilkie’s big win was to get a promise on the introduction of uniform “pre-commitment” smart card technology, allowing gamblers to control the amount they spent before starting. Once again it’s unclear how Gillard will actually provide this, given the states are addicted to the revenues of these stupid shiny machines and her Government already ignored the recommendations of the Productivity Commission on this issue.

But that will be a problem for another day, because right now Gillard only needs to offer up a few more cherries to get her own jackpot. 

223 comments

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    • Youdy beaudy says:

      06:30am | 06/09/10

      Let’s just get Daffy Duck to run the Country and let’s just get on with it, for God Sake.!!

    • taiabada says:

      10:52am | 05/09/10

      How could anyone look for a government you could trust with Andrew Wilkie in it?

    • Simon says says:

      01:33pm | 05/09/10

      Suggest you have a read of Laura Tingle and you’ll know why.

      “There are two possible explanations for how an opposition presenting itself as an alternative government could end up with an $11 billion hole in the cost of its election commitments.

      One is that they are liars, the other is that they are clunkheads. Actually there is a third explanation: they are liars and clunkheads.

      But whatever the combination, they are not fit to govern.”

      Ms T is an experienced, accurate front-rank journalist,  with the Fin Review.  Uncomfortable though it may be for some, her assessment sounds pretty right to me.
      http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/09/04/liars-clunkheads-or-both/

      The plain fact is that for the past year the Libs have persistently and wildly overstated every single position they’ve taken, and every single policy or program they’ve attacked, from debt on down the scale. 

      It’s simply not good enough.

    • acotrel says:

      10:25am | 05/09/10

      ‘The other thing that seems to be missed is that the LNP surplus is still substantially more than the ALP surplus and we all know the ALP doesn’t do surpluses! ‘
      Daryl, is Abbott going to deliver a surplus during a global financial crisis?  Don’t cry when you lose your house in the inevitable mortgage crash!

    • Barry says:

      09:05pm | 04/09/10

      Leo, it’s a lot easier than you are making out it was. Abbott lied during the election campaign and tried to hide the deficit. Then he lied again and tried to stop treasury prying into his covenant with the Australian people. Then he tried to bribe Wilkie. End of story.

    • Ray says:

      10:59pm | 03/09/10

      •  Andrew Wilkie, the ex-whistleblower, has become a baiter. Witness Wilkie’s request for $1 billion for the complete rebuilding of Hobart hospital, and then his refusal of the Coalition’s offer to make that amount available. Instead he settles for around $300 million from Labor for partial refurbishment of the existing hospital, on the grounds that the Coalition’s $1 billion offer is negligent. It is not surprising that the Tasmanian AMA spokesman is not amused by Wilkie’s folly in turning down the Coalition offer, and that Wilkie’s constituents are not impressed.
      •  But who could forget Wilkie speaking out against the Iraq war on the grounds that there was no hard evidence of weapons of mass destruction, but then throwing all caution to the wind by jumping on the man-made global warming bandwagon despite there being no irrefutable scientific evidence to prove that it is real.

    • Simon says says:

      03:55pm | 04/09/10

      Nonsense. Wilkie’s considered opinion sounds quite reasonable to me as an ordinary voter. Good on him for having a bit of spine and plain talking.

      ‘‘I couldn’t even have confidence that they would find that $1 billion, particularly on Thursday after the black hole appeared in their costings,’’ Mr Wilkie told The Age yesterday.

      ‘‘In the end I could have more confidence that Labor actually had that money, and I could also act in the national interest, opening up another $1.5 billion to go to health and hospitals nationally.’‘

      http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/wilkie-defends-rejecting-1-billion-hospital-offer-20100903-14uhf.html

    • dred says:

      08:15pm | 03/09/10

      I think the sad thing is did any one ask the director of Hobart hospital what he wants?

    • Michael says:

      05:41pm | 03/09/10

      It would be a refreshing change to have someone write in here that was not party or ideologically based. I admit I have a tendency towards a liberal philosophy and view. However in 2007 I voted against the liberals as I didnt support workchoices, and still do not. Since 2007 the ALP has in general done what the ALP always does and thats spend money. Now in saying that there is sometimes a need to spend money for the overall better good. I know I will get killed in here for this, but how many of you dont waste money to just feel good. Going to any of the shows, every year is the biggest waste of money you can find. But, how many of you go to the show, knowing its a waste of money, but still go??? The National Broadband Network is a good thing. I for one who has spent alot of time travelling, has seen first hand how backward our broadband network actually is. If Australia wants to be a part of the International Finance and commerce it needs to spend the money on this infrastructure. Now that I have sided with the ALP on the NBN I am also out raged at the waste and denials over the school spending and insulation program the ALP has conjured. What is important here, is to look at the most important aspects of Australia, that being our future. I feel in this election, Tony Abbot and the liberals have NOT inspired me to vote for them but at the same time, my ideology is liberal. The blow out in costings now by the Liberals puts a sour taste in my mouth, as I for one, voted for the liberals based on ideology of better fiscal managers, but I feel I have been betrayed. The debt right down, is based on a lie, or at very least poor understanding of economics, and not of ‘a difference of opinion’.

      I have always loved a political discussion, but it would be fantastic to see and read commentary and view from people who can put their bias aside and right a comment that is based on objectivity and fact, and not simply siding with someone solely on ideology.

    • Philby says:

      04:40pm | 03/09/10

      For me the key issue on this, although missing money and promises of $1B are not smaill issues, the key issue is the hypocrisy that Abbott has campaigned on. First he must have known treasury would find a problem with his costings, therfore he lied to all of us, second he and his people scream out that Gillard will do anything to get government, and yet here he is doing just that. To me Abbott has always shown his true colors, only now he is making it much more obvious. Not good Tony, you are a dissapointment.

    • Guest says:

      04:18pm | 03/09/10

      this on on the NBN costings and the other of costing blowouts that Labor has taken on by aligning with the Greens. The slightest error or pereceived error in the Coalition’s costings gets all the attention when Labor has turned an inherited surplus into deficit in 3 years, killed people (pink batts), taken on the irresponsible promises of the Greens and never delivered anything.

    • Randal says:

      04:05pm | 03/09/10

      So this the same Treasury, who just a few months ago informed the nation that on their assumption the RSPT would rake in 12.5 billion and then when Gillard knifed Rudd and back flipped on the policy and reduced the tax by half these same economic guru’s within days changed the assumptions and said hang on we are still going to get 10.5 billion, the real take was more like 24 billion.

      The same economic geniuses who under costed the BER by 3 billion (as stated by the A-G), saw the solar panel program closed down because, guess what they “got their assumptions wrong” and do I even need to mention that there is still not cost benefit analysis of the NBN, nor any consideration in forward estimates as to the funding of the 11 billion dollar NBN deal with Telstra.

      And hang on what about ‘Cash for Clunkers’ the department responsible costed this at over a billion, and was overruled by guess who, that’s right friends Treasury who have “assumed” it will be half that.

      I could go on and suggest that Treasury has never predicted the next 6 months accurately let alone were we would be in 3 years fiscally, and that an argument about a surplus so far in the distance when we are currently facing a 57 billion deficit just this year should be seen as humorous in the light of the distance Treasury’s forward estimates are so regularly out by, but why bother as it would seem that the Treasury are just like the weather bureau, when they with such certainty everybody automatically accepts what they say no matter how often they get it wrong.

      And believe me when I say they get it wrong more often than the much maligned men and women who are paid to watch the cold fronts.

    • Simon says says:

      04:45pm | 03/09/10

      “suggest that Treasury has never predicted the next 6 months accurately”

      Quite.

      But then, they don’t do predictions. They give carefully hedged forecasts and policy advice in accord.  The conservatism of the Treasury, or of the Reserve Bank for that matter, in looking at economic numbers, is for good reason and to our national advantage. And explained on each occasion.

      Either Randal either doesn’t read ‘em carefully or is too keen to apply negative spin to bother to represent ‘em accurately.

    • Paul says:

      03:14pm | 03/09/10

      If you value a financial instrument whose value depends on the value of something which is actively traded in a financial market, then your valuation becomes wrong as soon as the price in the financial market changes.

      For example, A promise for you to give me a tonne of gold in one years time is worth the current price of gold, discounted for one year. In six months time, the valuation will change to be whatever the gold price is in six months time, discounted for 6 months. Both valuations will correctly reflect all available information.

      Any valuation based on details from financial markets becomes dated immediately without anybody making errors. When will various commentators get this basic fact into their thick heads and stop complaining when valuations change?

    • hmm says:

      02:13pm | 03/09/10

      I have noted Hockey as saying it would be inconceivable for the 3 independents to side with Labor.  Does anyone agree that is yet another arrogant statement/viewpoint that just indicates how the Libs believe they are above all else?  They just can’t keep their mouths shut.

    • Jason says:

      01:50pm | 03/09/10

      How come it’s ok for the treasury to have an _error margin_ of 4 billion dollars in their analysis given they have all the information and number crunchers (and are supposed to be the ultimate experts), but the opposition is crucified over 7 billion ?  (or was it 11 billion?  Henry can’t even work it out himself).

      Are we saying that a treasury forecast error of 1.3 percent is acceptable (working on 300 billion in policies) but an opposition error of 2.3 percent is not?

      Sadly, based on this, I think Australia really deserves the ALP and Greens and the fiscal nightmare that will follow, we just don’t deserve good management when as a population we are so easily confused and manipulated.

    • Dallas Beaufort says:

      11:55pm | 03/09/10

      Jason, I accept your logic that labor and the greens should be allowed to stew in their own juices, but approximately 50% of the voters (Australian people) want a grown up government which has a track record of repairing our economy after the last set of green labor disasters and giving in to these vandals would be a gross irresponsibility regardless of the difficulties faced. Just look at the dangers faced by our Australian forces and their determination to not give in and leave until they are completely satisfied with their job lot and its result .

    • Ros says:

      12:57pm | 03/09/10

      No, they won’t be coughing up a further 565 million, rather 60 percent of that which I think is 340 million which is what Ruddy and Bartlett agreed in April this year. Only then it was to be 142 million up front, Wilke has managed to undermine Bartlett and reduce it to 100 million. But then they were talking about the Royal Hobart, now it is the Kids but exactly the same amount of money overall. So both hospitals getting same deal, or transferred from one to the other or it is the same hospital? Funny really, Ruddy and Bartlett lined up with the candidate for Denison for the announcement, to get him elected thanks to this money. Now Julia is apparently re-announcing the same money to get power. The 340 million that keeps giving and giving. Can some Tasmanian please explain exactly what the hell is going on, and down here.

      You are all so delighted that a con artist and liar has pulled something off. How about having a look at what he has actually achieved for Tasmania and the people of Denison

    • Chris says:

      12:44pm | 03/09/10

      The best headline & imagery since the start of the election campaign.

    • thatmosis says:

      12:31pm | 03/09/10

      Im loving this, an article by a covert Laborite and all the tooing anf froing from side to side. The fact of the matter is we are being held to ransom by a bunch of clowns who would be hard pressed if they added their votes together to beat the informal vote. Give Gillard the Government and watch as it self implodes in about 6 months and the Labor Party, the Greens and the independants all get a kick up the arse. Cant wait. The inmates are now running the asylum.

    • Chris L says:

      05:56pm | 03/09/10

      I always got the feeling that Leo leans to the right. The fact that he is still capable of seeing fault in the side I suspect he favours says much for his integrity.

      I’m not suprised he gets accused of being left wing for acknowledging an obvious gaffe by Abbot, consdering the vitriol being spewed at Henry despite his appointment by the Costello and praise from Howard.

      It seems the right will turn on their own the instant they hear anything that smacks of criticism.

    • TheRealDave says:

      01:21pm | 03/09/10

      A covert Laborite in the overt advertising arm of the LNP??

      He musta lied on his resume….

    • RobJ says:

      12:24pm | 03/09/10

      “Hey Tom - reluctant as I am to disparage a loyal reader, you really are a card-carrying halfwit”

      Reluctant eh? Is your boss advising you to insult one of your readers?

      I made a similar comment yesterday in the open thread because there was NOTHING about the $11 billion ‘matter of opinion’, the biggest story of the day (‘til Wilkie grabbed the limelight) my post wasn’t published, probably because I accused News Ltd of bias. I don’t care if you thing I’m a “card-carrying halfwit”, doesn’t alter the fact that the Punch ignored the story that made the Coalition look bad.

      In fact it has become apparent to me that you wont publish anything I post that is critical of News Ltd…

    • RobJ says:

      12:55pm | 03/09/10

      LOL - Thanks, my point stands, two posts made on News sites yesterday (here and the Australian), not published, it wasn’t like the Australian was inundated with posts (unless they were censoring most posts)

    • GreenGoblin says:

      12:13pm | 03/09/10

      Wilkie is still an independent, this does not change because of his support for either major party on the floor of parliament. Duncan Kerr (ALP) held the seat of Denison for 23 years, in that time Duncan secured less (for the RHH) from his own party than Wilkie has in a week, why? Denison WAS a safe Labor seat.

    • Dobbo says:

      11:48am | 03/09/10

      What we’ve all really got to look at closely is the big media and big business interests that would have foisted this clown and his innumerate buddies upon us.

      (Evidence of innumeracy see: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/federal-election/four-ways-to-get-the-sums-wrong-20100902-14rsf.html)

      Re the media - surely there must have been people smart enough to know the figures didn’t add up. Why weren’t we, the voting public, told of this fact so significant to making an informed judgement on which party was most competent to run the nation.

      Re big business - they couldn’t give a stuff as long as their man is running their show.

      How rich is the irony though that this very lack of scrutiny early on, which very nearly let Abbott slip through, is finally coming at just the wrong time for him. Thanks heavens for Independents!

      And. Wake up Australia! Many of the big players have been conning you!

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:25am | 03/09/10

      Absolutely loving the Liberal ‘Conspiracy Theories’ this morning - top stuff! Almost as good as the tanty throwing.

      Keep em coming wink

    • Wilkie. says:

      11:21am | 03/09/10

      Wilkie came to my house one day.  I didn’t feel at all comfortable.  He just knocked back a teaching hospital for Hobart - there was a time when the Hobart teaching hospital almost lost its teaching status. A brand new teaching hospital would have been a magnificent addition to Hobart with its renowned Menzies Research Centre and University of Tasmania excellence - all combined a wonderful facility and there’s an under-supply of new doctors as we all know.  What a boost for Tasmania - refused as a horrid political tactic. My cardiologist niece trained at the RHH, she’s absolutely horrified and disgusted at Wilkie’s politically vengeful stupidity. 
      Wilkie made a serious error and in extravagant words such as “reckless offer” he has signed his political death warrant.
      Remember any ethics when the first pink batt electrocution occurred?  The rudd-gillard government was warned by the Fuller family, and did nothing and three more families lost their loved ones.  Billions of dollars wasted in pink batts and four people killed from that type of thing, and Wilkie carries on about less money offered to Hobart for a brand new teaching hospital.
      Wilkie’s self-purported integrity is severely damaged.

      He won’t be returned, he’s associating with some very incompetent operators and looking at what is happening, its looking like he has been in cahoots with this peculiar Gillard all along.  I know people who voted for him because Denison was stale-Labor. 
      I think he’s a nasty piece of work.

    • Mac says:

      04:53pm | 03/09/10

      The poor performance of the Clinical School at RHH for several years was not due to funding issues, but the competence of the staff charged with the responsibility of adhering to regulations.  I trained there myself.

      You might have noticed media reports in the last six months describing the Australian population as being stale towards BOTH parties.

      All independents will probably receive a shift in their votes at the next election based on who they have chosen to support in this period - that’s hardly surprising.

    • Richard The Lionheart says:

      10:55am | 03/09/10

      Voters have got to realise that Health and Education are bottomless pits. No government can ever fix them, only band-aid the problems. Wiser and richer people pay for these services or insure. In the end, death and taxes carry us away. Tony’s plans are better for those of spirit, get up and go and individuality. Julia is best for helping those of low spirit and more reliant on the public purse. One system costs more than the other. Those 3 Indies should grab Tony’s hand.

    • Murray says:

      10:48am | 03/09/10

      Let Gillard have it, we’ll back to the polls in 12 - 18 months anyway, and the Independents will be out of a job after they support Gillard and Labor.

    • Reg says:

      11:54am | 03/09/10

      More traditional Liberal negativity and premature gloom and doom.  I’m prepared to wait and see how they perform.

      I’m still waiting to be reassured that the WA Nationals actually do not consider themselves part of the Coalition. Twelve months or eighteen months from now one of the Independent could actually be PM which would be no worse that having one of the indecisive Nationals.

    • Terry says:

      10:05am | 03/09/10

      In claiming that “..With the deals done by the ALP and Katter demanding no carbon tax and no mining tax, it’s 74 all in my book.” I suspect Dash betrays the paucity of thinking and vision inherent to the major conservative parties at present.  I’m increasingly confident that we’ll end up seeing Katter pledge to work productively within the confines of a Labor minority government.

      He’s announced his platform of issues last night.  It’s a ‘wish list’ and not a list of demands.  He’s made it clear that, ultimately, the proposed mining tax isn’t an issue which bothers him all that much.  And despite the raft of ‘Katteresque’ desires contained within it he’s made it clear that the two key concerns amongst it all are:

      * Commitment to National Energy Grid
      * Commitment to genuine effort to address the almost duopoly of Coles and Woolworths

      Those are concerns which make it more likely for him to swing support behind Labor rather than behind the Coalition.  And he’s also stated that he’s prepared to sacrifice quite a bit to ensure that the voice of the 3 country Independents remain collectively a force for change.

    • Sheldon says:

      10:41am | 03/09/10

      I think the indies are going with Labor. I didn’t think Katter would go with Labor until I saw his interview on Sky News this morning

    • Babs of Sydney says:

      10:02am | 03/09/10

      There is a “black hole” alright - it’s called Treasury.

    • Pirate Treasury says:

      11:06am | 03/09/10

      Babs - i’d like to know when treasury became a font of wisdom, their forecasts are never anywhere near accurate.

    • Alan Pevie says:

      09:58am | 03/09/10

      Excuse me Mr Wilkes.  What is ethical about knifing an elected Prime Minister merely to grab power for yourself ?  What is ethical about wasting our hard earned tax payers money to oversee the installing of roof batts and the building of over inflated priced buildings at schools?  What is ethical about making promises you cannot keep?  Stability ? I don’t think so ! Sorry Mr Wilkes you will a one term politician. Alan Pevie Rostrevor SA

    • Ringo star says:

      09:35am | 03/09/10

      Cant buy me love…

    • Laurie says:

      09:17am | 03/09/10

      It was always that Wilkie would go to Labour. He just needed justification. Gillard’s offer was enough, Abbotts offer proved that no amount of money was going to sway him from Labour.  With respect to balancing the budget the Governor of Indiana probably the only State in America with one stated that its amazing how much government you can cut before anyone notices. I will vote for that.

    • Dash says:

      12:33pm | 03/09/10

      You’re right Karen. The other point to note is that he is saying he wants responsible funding yet he’s happy to support the ALP which presided over the insulation fiasco which is still costing the tax payer millions to put right. And he’s also supporting an ALP which stood by whilst taxpayers money was rorted by Labor backed builders under the school halls program. HYPOCRITE!

    • Peetme says:

      10:51am | 03/09/10

      I agree with you Laurie. What I was trying to emphasise here was the perfidious nature of the man and his actions.

      Leaving aside the money issue, why stand as an independant if this was the intent in the first place?

    • Karen says:

      10:34am | 03/09/10

      It was Wilkie who asked Abbott for 1 Billion, Wilkie was playing a game. Wilkie must be a very convincing liar for Abbott not to suspect he was being baited.

    • Peetme says:

      09:11am | 03/09/10

      One of the reasons Wilkie, an independant, gave for siding with Labor was that people in his electorate had traditionally voted Labor in the past.

      Huh!

    • Gabrielle says:

      09:10am | 03/09/10

      When was Hobart hospital ever mentioned in the election campaign? None of us voted for this and there are plenty of other areas in dire need of the same attention. I’m fed up with these loonies pork barrelling and demanding for things that affect so few people. How could such fools have so much power? So embarrassing for us as a nation.

    • Dash says:

      09:07am | 03/09/10

      Well it seems I’m a lone voice here questioning the independence of treasury. I reckon they have stitched the LNP up. If the government changes hands, treasury employees are concerned about their jobs, of course they are going to find something wrong with the LNP costings. The LNP also ignored treasury for costings during the campaign - time for a get even perhaps?? At the end of the day, LNP 73 seats ALP 72. LNP more primary votes, LNP more 2PP votes. I’d say this is going to come down to Windsor and Okeshott. With the deals done by the ALP and Katter demanding no carbon tax and no mining tax, it’s 74 all in my book. The interesting thing is that the ALP vote in Windsor and Okeshott’s electorates is the lowest anywhere in Australia. Just 8% and 13%. They would be brave boys to effectively become ALP ministers! What price on going back to the ballot box?

    • Northern Steve says:

      09:57pm | 05/09/10

      Another interpretation of the low Labor vote in the two Ind seats is that a lot of ‘natural’ Labor voters are also voting for the independents with their first preferences.
      Still, it’s difficult to see Labor managing in minority government to come up with some of plan that won’t tick off a) the Greens b) the indies or c) core Labor voters.  It may happen on social issues, but it won’t happen in economic reform.

    • Chris L says:

      12:05pm | 03/09/10

      After over a decade of Liberal government (the people that installed Henry and sang his praises, who also introduced the charter of budget honesty in the first place) Treasury decide to abandon their impartially and jump ship to the Labor side during their first term. Is that pretty much what you’re saying Dash?

    • Reader says:

      09:48am | 03/09/10

      You may just be the last man standing and defending the wrong side of the argument only because others decided to back the right one. You sound a bit like a bookie but I’m not sure whether you pretending to be a prophet or more like a profiteer

    • iansand says:

      09:16am | 03/09/10

      What if the LNP form government?  How does the Treasury conspiracy pan out then?

    • Luke04 says:

      09:03am | 03/09/10

      This stuff about the Independents haven’t made up their minds yet is rubbish. I reckon they are going to support Gillard and have known for some time. All we are seeing now is them trying get as much bad publicity forAbbott as possible before they go public with their decision and have to explain to their electorates why they backed Gillard. They’re only thinking of themselves and their defence when they get home.

    • Jane says:

      08:52am | 03/09/10

      Set Up of course, Gillard and Swan would have been in on this little plan from the begining. She offers substantially less for Hobart Hospital making her look responsible and he “asks” Abbott for 1 Billion, gets it and then says no thanks and runs to the media saying he’s “reckless”. Wilkie had no intention of negotiating with Abbott from the start.

    • GreenGoblin says:

      10:20am | 03/09/10

      It’s called politics Jane, Tony Abbott and his financial advisers were simply outsmarted.

    • Marian Dalton says:

      08:49am | 03/09/10

      How quickly the worms turn.

      Abbott was well caught in a honey-trap. Wilkie’s list included money for Royal Hobart, sure - but the two offers speak volumes about the approaches the leaders have taken. Abbott didn’t see past the pork, while Gillard looked at the wider context of health reform.

      To bleat now that Wilkie ‘played unfair’ is simply an attempt to obscure the real issue - that Abbott was willing to promise an uncosted, unsourced $1 billion just to secure the vote of one Independent MP. It brings up the question of what he is promising the others - and where he plans to find the money.

      As for the Treasury costings - economists last night have all made the point that the Coalition’s insistence on keeping their costings secret until the last moment before throwing them to a private firm pretty much ensured that there would be problems when Treasury finally got to look at them. The Coalition is hiding behind the fact that they used different assumptions when they worked up their figures. Had they gone to the Charter of Budget Honesty - the charter their own party in government set up - they would have been able to see the problems with their costings immediately and adjust accordingly.

      Flinging accusations of bias and incompetence at Ken Henry and Treasury is, again, an attempt to obscure the issue. And it conveniently pushes to one side the actual errors made in the Coalition’s costings - double-counting and raiding a Contingency Reserve Fund to improve their savings when they had no idea whether that money was even available.

    • Six of one says:

      09:28am | 03/09/10

      Abbott has appeared flounder with these negotiations.  He cannot compromise and negotiate and relies on a position of power to force ideas, otherwise he is lost.  Don’t like Gillard, but she certainly took control and played the game well, good luck to you and your Government Julia, just remember its our money not yours.

    • Bob H says:

      08:11am | 03/09/10

      Hats off to Wilkie - he has placed his kick right in the Liberal’s goolies, I hope he savours his cold revenge (your fault Howard).  He has pushed his agenda well, and while the other independants fiffed and faffed, revelling in the glow of their new found media mates, has forced their hand towards Labor. 
      Cracking move Wilkie.

    • iansand says:

      07:16am | 03/09/10

      Good to see the Coalition tragics getting their conspiracy theories sorted out.

    • Turock2 says:

      12:21am | 03/09/10

      Abbot needs a copy of Donald Trumps The Art of Negotiation to understand he has no aces to play..or the aces he thinks he has..the tax collection are not held by him. He tried to play one with Wilkie and it backfired..A bllion dollar Ace wasn’t worth much in a 7-11billion budget blow out.-And this bloke wants to be a leader! How much more jive talk do Australians need from this apparent Turkey?

    • Terry says:

      12:02am | 03/09/10

      Quite correct, Leo.  It WILL raise serious questions no doubt, and should.

      The tactic of trying to ‘outbid’ was, and is, a serious mistake in the current scenario, and always was going to hurt Abbott’s cause.  He’d have been better served presenting with some genuine flexibility on policy.  Coming forward with a $1 billion “I’ll BUY you!” proposal could only possibly be seen as an insult to integrity, and if Wilkie had accepted it he’d have been branded forever after as a person with no integrity.

      In contrast, the deal struck with Labor over Hobart hospital is a piddling trifle.  $100 million up front is a reasonable sum to throw at an already acknowledged urgent problem, and it’s money which was already available for bargainings.  The balance isn’t new spendings - it’s instead coming from already budgetted Health funds.  The $1.8 billion for new hospital infrastructure was already there, and all that’s happened is that the round of applications has been brought forward.  Some of the media have been suggesting that the process is happening in reverse, but that’s not precisely true.  Hobart Hospital has already been assessed and determined a suitable priority case under the scheme, because a proposal was submitted for the forst round of applications.  That application was refused purely and only because it was a ‘renovations’ application, rather than the rebuilding applications stipulated in the guidelines. 

      The Independents aren’t idiots who get sucked in by the spin.  They know damned well that the ‘massive crippling debt’ is a furphy and that the country is in great financial shape.  They can see the predictions coming in which indicate that down the track a bit countries which don’t responsibly address carbon issues could face international opposition (and per capita we’re one of the biggest polluters, not one of the smallest).  They know damned well that the ‘Building Education debacle’ is really just a misdirection constructed around the 1.35% of projects which attracted complaints about costs.  They know damned well that NBN isn’t really a $43 billion ‘black hole’ that’s going to magically appear as soon as Gillard is reinstated.  (Projected timeline is 13 years to sell-off and $27 billion of public infrastructure investment involved.  Even if you factor in a massive cost overrun and lengthening of time to completion it still only works out to about an effective $2 billion per annum infrastructure investment for a project which could utterly transform Australia in terms of regionalisation and the industries it could attract!)

      No, the Independents aren’t really “stupid”, and anyone who thinks they are is selling them short.  They’re seasoned politicians, who will know damned well what opportunities present in such a time as this.  opportunites to put in motion moves to secure the changes they’re seeking.

      in all honesty, until now the only ‘negative’ confronting them has been the naturally conservative tendency of their electorates.  And now Abbott has handed them a trump card by wearing his lack of integrity and dishonesty on his sleeve.

      Gillard doesn’t actually HAVE to secure their agreement. All she needs do is test her support on the floor of parliament.  But she’ll complete the process, with integrity and in good faith, and she’ll get the agreement she seeks.

    • Rosie says:

      11:23pm | 02/09/10

      It was a done deal with Julia Gillard from Day 1 when the Green Bandt and Independent Wilkie won their seats. At least with the Green Bandt he said straight away that he was going to back Labor. Then Wilkie arrived on the scene and instead of admitting from Day 1 he was going to back Labor he kept us waiting while enjoying his 5 minutes of fame. Tony Abbott must of picked up the false flirtations from Wilkie so baited him with the $1b hospital deal knowing very well he wouldn’t take it up anyway.

      As for the 3 Amigos still up to their tricks and wielding power. Tonight on Skynews it was obvious that Tony Windsor & motor mouth Bob Oakeshott were going to back Labor all the time but wanted to give us the impression that they hadn’t made up their minds and will think about it over the weekend. Bob Katter the only one I trust may just follow suite as a buffer.

      That’s it folks, it is going to be legitimate on Monday, that Julia Gillard will move into the Lodge as the first atheist, childless female PM with boyfriend Tim.

      I can sit back and watch episodes of the continuous Soap Opera of the Vain & The Ruthless for the next 3 years.

    • Rosie says:

      07:10pm | 03/09/10

      Leo please can you explain to Badger The Harass that I was not posting as Marie.

      Anyway thanks Marie, reading your comments enables me to at least enjoy the weekend. Gee I do hope you are correct.

      TheRealDave - nothing to be bitter about! Either Lab or Libs will make no difference to the comfortable lifestyle I now deserve because I was smart enough to take responsibility of my retirement when I had the earning power. This is a land of opportunities and if you are prepared to work hard you do not have to rely on any Govt for any handouts.

      Have a great weekend, I am and thanks to Marie!

    • Scarneck says:

      03:18pm | 03/09/10

      Marie @ 12:12 says “They’ve all but stuffed this country’s finances”  I want to know how do we stop treasury reporting blatant lies in respect to our finances? I’ve been reading lately that Australia is one of the better performing economies in the world, these blatant lies must stop. It is having a major impact on our mining operations and business confidence.

    • The Badger says:

      01:52pm | 03/09/10

      Full name Rose Marie?

      you are starting to get the hang of posting twice Rosie. Unfortunately the vitriol gives you away

    • Reg says:

      01:45pm | 03/09/10

      “Thank you dear lady”.

    • TheRealDave says:

      01:14pm | 03/09/10

      Yes, bitter indeed wink

    • Marie says:

      12:12pm | 03/09/10

      Rosie it’s not over until the fat lady sings.  The fat lady being Gillard, a gray haired woman who never carried children but whose jackets will not close over her arse of a horse or the paunch behind her strained front coat button.  But Gillard wouldn’t sing Rosie, she would screech in that unfeminine, condescending style we have come to distrust.
      I don’t think men can see how they are being conned and I hope at least the wives of the independents are a wake up to Gillard’s connivances.
      She’s big trouble, Rosie.  Big trouble.  Those gesticulating hands, the butchering of the English language, her self-important flippant remarks and the latest many deals the one with the manipulative Wilkie - all planned and executed.  Both of them devious bed-fellows but who would want to be in a real bed with either.  What an unpalatable thought.
      Surely to God we may not have to suffer this awful woman and her traffic offending de facto living in the Lodge for three years - don’t think she would last that long anyway under the circumstances.
      If the country independents are real dinkum men, they won’t be suckered. She ripped the guts out of Rudd, virtually lost it for Labor, gave away billions of our money, and its obvious thinking Australian women saw through it because they sure didn’t give her the green light.
      Cheer up Rosie, she won’t last.  She like her conspirator Wilkie, Shorten, Howes Arbib, Feney and the union heavies will pay a high price for what their cronies have done.  They’ve all but stuffed this country’s finances and the future of our children in three years and still we’re living through their circus act two weeks after the election she hasn’t even crawled in. They’re all using each other Rosie they’re the biggest bunch of users I’ve ever witnessed.

    • GreenGoblin says:

      11:29am | 03/09/10

      tad unfair Kevin…I was looking forward to my taxes supporting a struggling family make ends meet in Northern Sydney seats.

    • Reg says:

      11:18am | 03/09/10

      Rosie .. “Tony Abbott must have picked up the false flirtations from Wilkie so baited him with the $1b hospital deal knowing very well he wouldn’t take it up anyway.”

      Are you telling us that Tony Abbott is playing with the electorate by telling and offering us things that are NOT factual?  And kindly desist from describing people as atheists for no other reason than to reflect your own narrow beliefs. There is no such group as Atheist, except in your mind.

    • TheRealDave says:

      11:12am | 03/09/10

      “that Julia Gillard will move into the Lodge as the first atheist, childless female PM with boyfriend Tim.”

      Bitter much Rosie?

    • Kevin says:

      09:43am | 03/09/10

      At least a childless PM isn’t going to introduce an irresponsibly generous parental leave scheme to coincide with her daughters reaching child bearing age.

    • Rick says:

      11:12pm | 02/09/10

      Coming on top of the ‘black hole’ in the Coalitions costings (easy to now understand why they wouldn’t submit their policies to Treasury prior to the election) we now have Abbott the Billion Dollar Man.  We now know what Costello meant when he indicated he didn’t trust Abbott on economics.  This is a man that will change his mind on any policy - climate change, paid paternity leave - to achieve office.  If the Coalition remain in Opposition Australia may well be thankful they avoided disaster by the slimmest of margins.

    • mike T says:

      11:11pm | 02/09/10

      If the coalition get in the greens are going to have a difficult time of dealing with them… Bob Browns men have certainly taken every opportunity to put the boot in which is very very silly seeing us they may have to work closely with them over the next 3 years. I think the greens better savour thier time in the sun as i dont beleive they will ever hold this much power again. I think Bob is dillusional if he thinks that the large number of votes he attained was a result of the greens policies….. i think that most were a protest vote, in particular against the LP, and i think its unlikely to happen again now that the spotlight is on this group and thier policies are under scritiny..

    • Chaos says:

      03:26pm | 03/09/10

      Green Goblin. Here to stay? Democrats got over 10% and where going to be the ones to ‘Keep the Bastards Honest’.

      They’re still around right?

      About ‘Green’ Policies the ones which make me nervous are the ones which are based on envy of ‘wealthy’.

      Estate tax.
      Higher marginal rate.
      Limit losses that be offset against capital gain.
      Higher Company Tax.
      Higher mining tax.
      Etc…

    • Mike T says:

      11:01am | 03/09/10

      Thanks Green Goblin…in regards to your comment around ability to read maybe you should practice what you preach. At what point did i say anything negative about the greens policy??? in actual fact i think some if thier policies are fine…. my point is that i untill the election thier policies have not been heavily assessed from the media or the general public. Now that they will be i do beleive that MANY working class Australian will be uncomfortable with alot of the….even as a left wing greenie im sure even you would agree with that. So again, i thank you for your comment i would just ask that you read mine in total before commenting next time wink

    • GreenGoblin says:

      10:11am | 03/09/10

      Mike t, you may be the delusional one. take a peek at the AEC results, the Greens swing was about 3.5%, therefore their base support is around 10% like it or not, the Green vote is here to stay,  in fact, I’ve got good money to say they will increase their vote at the next election.  Out of curiosity, have you ever once read even ONE Green policy, do yourself a favour and read some before denigrating them.

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      10:15pm | 02/09/10

      I wish people would look at the pokie issue rationally.

      If you try to limit people, they’ll just go to the next venue. The best way to slow down the problem gambling (you’ll never stop it) is to only allow the machines to play a tune for a net win. Most machines have 25 lines and you can lose $4.90 out of $5.00 but the stupid thing still plays the hypnotic tune which sucks them in. Plus they hear everyone else ‘‘winning’‘.

    • Steve says:

      10:45pm | 05/09/10

      Completely agree. A loud, negative buzz when you lose will help. As would making the games win or lose instead of a controlled, drawn out lose. Side note, has anyone considered the impact the pokie reform will have on the governments yearly earnings? Ms gillard jumped on that one with not a question raised (probably because deep down we all agree with the policy) yet Abbott agrees to a billion dollars for a hospital on a whim and all hell breaks loose. Seems obvious to me, if people are gambling less then the government earns less in tax.  How much less?

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:08pm | 02/09/10

      I see the Liberal claws are out in force today! Thing go slightly amiss and lookout - The Bitch is Back! *fingersnaps*

      A couple of days ago Wilke was a top bloke, a thinker, looking to do the best he could for his electorate etc

      Now he’s a commie bastard that was ‘always going to go Labor’

      You don’t think he was swayed by the fact he saw $11 BILLION dollars in bad arithmetic and then have Tony rAbbott offer him another BILLION more and think that something was a bit fishy??

      Nah, he’s a commie/greeny/pinko bastard!

      The best the Libs can hope for now is a new election…to give them time to find an accountant who’s calculator isn’t broken…..

      Oh and, can we get the name of this ‘top firm’ who went over the numbers and missed the $11 BILLION dollar gaping void? I just want to know if they are doing Hoges’ tax returns as well…..

    • Fred says:

      02:31pm | 03/09/10

      @ Jb - “Howard was right this guy clearly is a national security threat”

      Wow - of all the things you could have had a go at him about, you choose the one thing that he was right about all along???

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      01:27pm | 03/09/10

      TheRealDave says:10:08pm; Yeah and it was the same with bob Brown rAbbott said he was a man of great integrity last week. Now listen to what they’re saying about him. You can certainly see who is the one who has lost all integrity.

    • jb says:

      08:40am | 03/09/10

      Ah no dave don’t think so.
      Wilkie went to Abbott asking him to fix the Tasmanian health system that was castrated by the Labor govt, he agreed to help fix the system then mr intelligence officer runs back to gillard claiming Abbott is reckless.
      Not a bad set up!
      Howard was right this guy clearly is a national security threat, he is incapable of keeping his mouth shut and the Rudd/gillard/brown govt will need to keep it’s secrets close to their chest with this guy around…

    • Against the Man says:

      09:11pm | 02/09/10

      Fake PM Gillard is cutting a sorry figure, Wikie will be voted out next time round, silly man needs to think smart and not fall for silly ALP promises.

    • Lance says:

      09:05pm | 02/09/10

      There really should be a base level of education required before you are allowed to vote. The possible ‘black hole’ in the costings isn’t that much of a big deal, especially considering some of the assumptions and figures treasury are working on. Treasury have NEVER gotten a single costing right ... ever! Most of the comments about this amazing ‘black hole’ show how poorly educated you are, and how little you understand our political system and its inner workings.

      I really start to worry about this country where the vast majority of voters are poorly educated, and have no idea how our system works. The fact that the Greens hold the balance of power and have such a large influence in what is just plain frightening for a business owner and employer such as myself. Some of their policies would be very damaging for my business, and as a result I would more than likely move it offshore. Its just a shame the voting public hardly reads past a few headlines and the 5 minute carefully selected segment on the evening news.

    • Reg says:

      12:11pm | 03/09/10

      Lance, how is it different when one of the parties scrapes in by a small margin? No matter which party, to govern with a majority of 1%, or what-ever, still means that the governing party is depending on numbers equivalent to what the Independents or Greens have to offer.

      With all the variables I would never be surprised to find a difficulty in costing although I would never DARE to say that Treasury had never got it right.  Cost blow-outs are inevitable. The development of the American Atomic Bomb springs to mind for the urgency of the project. ONE HUNDRED times the original projected cost.

    • Ziggy says:

      08:59pm | 02/09/10

      It is really depressing reading these comments. Black hole blowouts are meaningless. What really counts is who will deliver the bigger surplus on these treasury costings. Answer is the Coalition will deliver about $4bn surplus and Gillard & Co a mere $100m.
      History shows that the Coalition are better economic managers.
      And Henry’s impartiality at Treasury is very iffy. Getting his dept to be impartial on the Coalition costings is similar to allowing vampires to control the Red Cross blood bank.
      Just got back from Africa and the money is pouring in there on mining projects. Thanks to Henry we have now handed the baton to our competitors in mining -at least in the short term until a more stable government can come up with a sensible taxation policy.

      When you tax something you get less of it. When you provide incentives you get more of it.

      Can someone tattoo that on Henry’s forehead?

    • Reg says:

      10:44am | 03/09/10

      Thanks guys it’s interesting to see the picture in unclear even within the industry itself, no wonder we simple city folk find it confusing. That’s why we depend on our elected government to look at the big picture and act as arbiters on our behalf.

    • Itsajakup says:

      01:34am | 03/09/10

      Hmmmm….. and you work in the mining industry like me? Funny we can’t keep up. I’m in mobile cranes and trucking. This sector is set to more than double in the next few years to meet demand. Our biggest brake up here is accommodation and infrastructure. The miners can’t build it fast enough. The least of our worries is a mining tax.

      When the GFC hit we never even skipped a beat. The proposed tax never even got on the radar here.

    • Casablanca says:

      08:55pm | 02/09/10

      FYI Denison since 1903 has returned 11 members from the conservative side of politics and 7 from the ALP. Wilkie is the first Independent to win the seat.

      Wilkie was a member of the Young Liberals and then became a grown up Liberal

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:02pm | 02/09/10

      And then got hung out to dry BY the Liberals.

    • Dungla says:

      08:49pm | 02/09/10

      Of course the only reason RHH is going to cost a $1bil is Labour decided to build it on the Harbour in the 1st place. Otherwise it would have been 1/3rd of that. Maybe Tony understood that, knew week-knee Wilkie would us the hospital as an excuse and said ...Right Mate!

    • jeffb says:

      01:47pm | 03/09/10

      And Andrew Robb hilariously by Tony Jones on Lateline, that one billion for the RHH is now coalition policy, the black hole just got alittle bigger.

    • GreenGoblin says:

      09:45am | 03/09/10

      Tony Abbott was outsmarted by Andrew Wilkie…suck it up!

    • jeffb says:

      10:22pm | 02/09/10

      Throwing a billion dollars around to try and win government in an election where he promised some measure of fiscal accountability, his entire campaign was about ending the waste and mismanagement, surely we can all agree is highly irresponsible and somewhat dishonest?

    • Super D says:

      08:46pm | 02/09/10

      The billion dollar bribe is easily justified on the basis that another 3 years of Labor will see at least 5 times that much pissed away.  Remember folks we are currently spending over $1 Billion to fix the insulation debacle, that’s Wilkie’s hospital right there.

      I too was disappointed that there was no post regarding Abbott’s budget blowout - I was looking forward to pointing out that $10 billion out over the entire budget for an opposition compares quite well with $12 billion out on the mining tax from a government

    • Reg says:

      09:22am | 03/09/10

      Try as they may, Liberal supporters have never really been able to convince the electorate that there is practically no difference between Labor and Liberal. They have been very quiet about it for this election because they need to highlight the “differences” The fact is that when it comes to community concern, the Labour Party’s goal is far broader than that of the Liberals and their camp followers who intrinsically believe in trickle down economics.

      So for Labor to give a billion for a hospital, is vastly different from when Liberal does the same. Labor believes in community support while Liberals believes in Private Hospitals and that if private enterprise does not supply the facility then SUFFER. In this respect the Liberals have had to compromise their basic principles to counter the more appealing Labor one. (But be warned, it simmers in the back-ground.) 

      So for the Liberals, et al to offer Mr Wilkie a hospital, is a slimy bribe but for Labor to do the same is a community service.

      See, it’s all in the detail.

    • Tails says:

      08:45pm | 02/09/10

      Take a breath kiddies.
      It’s not a black hole or a deficit.
      It’s just a smaller bigger surplus than Juuuliaaaar’s.
      Get it? Understand? Yes?

    • Chris L says:

      05:47pm | 03/09/10

      “Trjn - I don’t even know where to start correcting you.” - that would explain why you devolved into purile insults.

    • Seano says:

      05:29pm | 03/09/10

      No Tails I don’t get because it’s bollocks.

      You can’t mismanage your accounts and then claim it’s ok because you’re still in the black. Ridiculous.

    • Tails says:

      01:15pm | 03/09/10

      Trjn - I don’t even know where to start correcting you. Possibly because your response is so riddled with nonsensical arse-gravy, you’ve sucked all the oxygen out of the room.
      If you want to barrack, go to the footy this weekend. If you want to talk sense, it’s best to ‘learn’ sense first.

    • Trjn says:

      11:46am | 03/09/10

      The Coalition’s costings deliver a surplus of $800m to $4.5bn under the Treasury’s calculations by 2014. They promised $11.5bn.

      Labor will deliver approx $400m by 2014.  That’s very slightly more than they promised.

      This shows that Labor’s economic policy is stronger because the gap between what they’ve promised to deliver and what they’ve shown to be able to deliver is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the Coalition’s gap.

      Furthermore, Liberal supporters are getting up in arms about how Labor is financially irresponsible for how they are currently in debt due to how they handled the GFC. Actions that have been praised globally by economic leaders and that latest numbers have backed that up.

      When you campaign on the strength of your economic management, it really does help that when you get the first chance to show your work that it actually is accurate.

      Labor has promised to deliver vital infrastructure whilst still bringing the budget to surplus in the same time frame, the Coalition on the other hand has promised to simply cut spending in order to bring the budget to surplus.

      Spend a little more, get a LOT more, spend a little less, get a LOT less. You tell me which is truly best for the country.

    • GreenGoblin says:

      11:05am | 03/09/10

      MarK @ 09:25am. Katter, Windsor and Oakeshott are independents and elected as such. I would have said ‘progressive’ electorates rather than conservative. We must not lose sight of the fact that it is the conservative vote that has created this situation wink

    • MarK says:

      09:25am | 03/09/10

      The really really silly thing is that when Treaury uses different assumptions than the coalition modellers and different forecasts like rates of interest they come up with different figures and people get surprised.

      Yet in the same year they blindly look away from the fact Treasury got the mining tax so wrong and fiddled with figures to suit a political aim.

      They won’t get it Tails because it is too inconvenient to look at the facts.

      Love this stuff. For all the posturing and grandstanding we have 2 leftleaning independents siding with Labor /shock and now wait on 3 guys representing conservative electorates to get a set and declare their hand after wringing their 16 (yes 16 they are greedy and went for an extra minute) minutes of fame for all it was worth.

    • iansand says:

      09:13am | 03/09/10

      Surplus under Liberal = Calculated in such a way as to demonstrate incompetence.  I have a sneaking suspicion that this might be the problem, not the raw numbers.

    • Tails says:

      09:09am | 03/09/10

      You still don’t get it do you Seano.

      Surplus under Labor = smaller (if at all).
      Surplus under Coalition = bigger.

    • Seano says:

      07:12am | 03/09/10

      Either Abbott knew his figures were bogus which is why he didn’t get them costed before the election or he can’t do his sums.

      Conservatives love to scream “spin” and yet when they get caught they come up with silly defences like “smaller bigger surplus”. How embarrassing.

    • MarK says:

      09:16pm | 02/09/10

      Nah they don’t.

      But lets all hope they get their wish and Julia gets the booby prize.

      i really want to see this. Terrible for the country but so so very funny.

    • An insider says:

      08:39pm | 02/09/10

      The outcome is clear. Windsor, who hates the Nats, has been taking the Coalition for a ride. Oakeshot is in the same camp. Katter will probably go along with them for the sake of stability. This is all about pay-back to the Nats. Stuff their voters’ views. Bruce Hawker has been glued to Windsor for the past week. If the Coalition didn’t submit their policies, they were stuffed. If they did, then they were also stuffed, as Treasury will always find something wrong (and I am not taking sides about the actual costings). The Indies will console themselves that they are free from electoral payback, as they can survive on Labor preferences. Re-read this tomorrow (most likely, unless Windsor wants to keep the charade running over the weekend) and see if I am correct.

    • Louisa says:

      09:22pm | 02/09/10

      Windsor is a gumpy old man (although younger than me). I very much dislike men like this. Obviously has one huge chip on his shoulder as do many men of his age.  May need some of the products that 2GB are always advertising smile

    • An insider says:

      08:39pm | 02/09/10

      The outcome is clear. Windsor, who hates the Nats, has been taking the Coalition for a ride. Oakeshot is in the same camp. Katter will probably go along with them for the sake of stability. This is all about pay-back to the Nats. Stuff their voters’ views. Bruce Hawker has been glued to Windsor for the past week. If the Coalition didn’t submit their policies, they were stuffed. If they did, then they were also stuffed, as Treasury will always find something wrong (and I am not taking sides about the actual costings). The Indies will console themselves that they are free from electoral payback, as they can survive on Labor preferences. Re-read this tomorrow (most likely, unless Windsor wants to keep the charade running over the weekend) and see if I am correct.

    • Rego says:

      08:33pm | 02/09/10

      Ok So they both offered to fund the hospital for about the same amount. The problem is Julia was already in the Red without it and will have to make up the delta with her new (carbon) tax. Of course Julia doen’t really need any hospitals as all medical care will come via 50 billon watt internet and avatar doctors. Useful, as with the higher tax rates that is the only kind we will have.

    • Fred says:

      02:10pm | 03/09/10

      The Govt wasn’t in the red without it - they estimated they would spend a certain amount on election promises, they spent a lot less, (this is all publicly available information btw) so the left over they had for election promises is going to this hospital… the funding was explained at the press conference yesterday.

    • chris says:

      08:27pm | 02/09/10

      This is a great day. We finally have a Labor/Green government on the verge of running Australia with the help of some very intelligent and well considered independent members of parliament. We will finally get an ETS that will stop global warming, the miners will have to pay tax on their massive profits, all other horrible big companies and rich people will also finally pay more tax, we will allow gay marriage, we will get broadband for the whole country at bionic speeds and at a very reasonable cost, we will continue building great buildings in public schools, we will take back money from rich private schools who don’t deserve any, we will allow refugees to come to Australia and treat them well and we will have no work choices which means that all workers will get paid more….....Dream on freaks. The 3 rurals are stupid but not that stupid.

    • Paul says:

      09:10am | 03/09/10

      ‘An ETS that will stop global warming’.

      An ETS in a country that contributes less than 1% of emmissions, will stop global warming (now referred to as climate change - didnt you get the memo?).

      Wow. Just….. wow.

    • Ned says:

      12:58am | 03/09/10

      ...and when these ‘stupid’ rural independents back your team you’ll think they’re the most intelligent hicks you’ve ever come across.

    • Ben in Canberra says:

      08:26pm | 02/09/10

      Time for self-interested independents to remember that they are but a very small cog in a 150 spoke wheel. Where does it end? Do safe lib or labor members suddenly threaten to sit on the cross benches unless their electorate gets a new hospital or water park or gold sovereigns for each constituent?

      There should be sensible debate about the existing policies Labor and the Lib’s have released, no more, no less. The stealth pork barrelling that is occurring at present serves no-ones interests.

    • farkurnell says:

      09:24pm | 03/09/10

      Ben maybe we’lll end up with 150 Indies, now that would be interesting.
      My guess is the 3 Stooges are going with Julia,but need the time to nut out the spin,so they don’t get lynched by their constituents.

    • GreenGoblin says:

      11:39am | 03/09/10

      Paul @ 10:58am. Are you suggesting that it took more ‘guts’ to elect an ALP/LNP member than it did to elect an independent?
      This isn’t about ‘guts’ it’s about thinking before you vote. You do realise it is the 20% of swinging voters that change governments, it’s not the rusted on major party voters. Thank god for the swinging voter.

    • Paul says:

      10:58am | 03/09/10

      GG,
      The difference is, the other 145 have had the guts to make a decision as to who they will support. As did the 14 million voters who voted 2 WEEKS AGO.

      The independents are being selfish. Nothing more.

      The independents should have made their decision based on the same information that I had when I voted.

      For example, who’s to say that if this crap about limiting the gambling on pokies (which has arising from labor’s negotiations with Wilke) had been announced before the election, the result may have been different?

      You go to the polls based on policies, and its those policies you should have to stick to until the result is known.

    • Mr Pastry says:

      10:40am | 03/09/10

      Nice point @GreenGoblin - party MPs have all prostituted themselves to the party and owe their position to others and not the electorate.  I am quite pleased the balance of power is with independently minded MPs

    • GreenGoblin says:

      10:27am | 03/09/10

      Perhaps it is time Ben for the other 145 members to realise they have the same power as the independents and the Green, they are all elected equally. All power to the independents.

    • Seano says:

      08:18pm | 02/09/10

      No wonder Abbott didn’t get his figures checked before the election, because they were crap. And this is the bloke to run the economy?

    • Rob r Charteris says:

      01:11pm | 03/09/10

      Seano says:08:18pm; You can see where Costello was coming from when he said he didn’t trust rAbbott on economic matters.

    • Christian Real says:

      05:42am | 03/09/10

      Seano,
      You are right in what you have written,Tony Abbott knew his figures and calculations would not add up if he submitted his policies for costings to the Treasury department.
      Abbott,Hockey and Robb, all united together trying to explain away this huge black hole that Treasury had found in their costings.
      The fact that between the three of them,they can’t add up or get their figures or calculations right,would explain why Abbott was reluctant to get Treasury to scutinise his figures.
      Malcolm Turnbull would have been a better choice of leader,and at least he would have calculated the policy costings more accurately than Abbott,Hockey and Robb.

    • Northern Steve says:

      08:18pm | 02/09/10

      Read the details of Wilkie’s press release, and he has promised to support the Coalition equally in terms of supply and no confidence if they get in.  That seems a reasonable position for an independent to take.  He has not made any promises on any other legislation from either side.

      Does seem a bit rich though to ask for money for the Hobart hospital, and then claim Abbott’s offer of money to be a bit of a transparent bribe.

    • 2291 says:

      08:15pm | 02/09/10

      Wilke sounds like areal dunce who believes there is fairies in the garden the way he is talking-god almighty have we got to actually put up with these sort of riff raff for the next three years?? That Ms Gillard is so Devious and unbelievable and also untrustworthy and this wilke dude states labor will be a more stable and competent government -come on now! I cannot believe our voting has led to all of this bulldust going on and then you have that rob oatshott who has a EGO and immature problem,bobby katter who thinks it is the 17 century or something and then there is tony windsor who is so lay back I feel tired everytime I listen or see him. Another election ASAP is the way to go-fair dinkum,fair suck of the sauce bottle.

    • Chris L says:

      05:44pm | 03/09/10

      I don’t remember Wilke talking about fairies, but if he did believe in them that wouldn’t bother me. After all, you invoke god almighty so how are you any different?

    • Anne71 says:

      12:44pm | 03/09/10

      @2291 “That Ms Gillard is so Devious and unbelievable and also untrustworthy” - Wow, and the man who can’t or won’t tell us where $11 billion worth of costings went is NOT “devious and unbelievable and also untrustworthy”? I mean, I know NLP supporters are notoriously one-eyed, but surely that is a bit of a red flag even for you?

    • Stewart Henstock says:

      08:11pm | 02/09/10

      The tree hugger was always going to side with Labor..who cares.
      The 3 independents have no option but to side with the coalition or face the wrath of their electorate.
      As for the blow out…who cares…i bet Labors is twice as bad.

    • GreenGoblin says:

      10:53am | 03/09/10

      “As for the blow out…who cares”  I for one care Stewart. the LNP went into an election with their core promises showing a cost blow out of somewhere between 5 and 10 billion (not million) dollars. They took this to the people all the while ‘spouting’ good financial management, the reality is that the LNP have lost all credibility on finances and any credibility they may have had went down the ‘gurgler’ after the 2007 election. Not one LNP member could hold a candle to Peter Costello, even Costello himself had doubts about the economic credentials of Tony Abbott.

    • Slippery elm says:

      09:07am | 03/09/10

      Stewart

      You say tree hugger like it’s a bad thing

    • Paul says:

      09:06am | 03/09/10

      jeffb - if you were getting a taxpayer funded extention to your house, would you complain as to how much the cost was (and how much rorting the tradesmen did)?

      Of course you wouldnt! You couldnt care less!

      This is why the ‘only 3% complaints’ argument being bandied around is so utterly utterly meaningless.

    • Reg says:

      08:51am | 03/09/10

      Until I hear otherwise the Liberal black hole stands at $11.6 billion as presented by My ABC. Now had it been from Foxnews I’d have wavered, but there it stands.

      And why should a person of Independent persuasion NOT decide to follow his commitment when choosing his direction? His followers should have been aware when they voted for him that he would have to move to achieve the best result according to his independent assessment. 

      When the opportunity presents, I expect one or more of the Independents to disclose what was revealed to him on the matter of Treasury costings. There’s a small problem here though. Will both parties agree to gag any of them from doing so once they have compromised their independence?

    • TimB says:

      08:09am | 03/09/10

      “just siding with the coalition as you suggest,or as their electorates suggest, could create a conflict of interest,seeing that the three ‘independents all previously belonged to the National party.”

      Christian Real do you know what the term “conflict of Interest” even means??
      It means abusing ones position for a personal advantage to the possible detriment of the electorate. It has absolute bugger all to do with what party they have belonged to in the past.

      And as for “just doing what their electorates suggest”....thats called democracy, a foreign concept to you it appears. They’re supposed to represent the wishes of their electorates, if the electorate wishes for them to support the Coalition then that’s exactly who they should support.

    • Christian Real says:

      05:15am | 03/09/10

      The three independents have an option to weigh up and consider what is best for All Australians.
      By failing to do this and by just siding with the coalition as you suggest,or as their electorates suggest, could create a conflict of interest,seeing that the three ‘independents all previously belonged to the National party.
      As for the blowout of their policy costings,real fair dinkum Australians care.

    • jeffb says:

      10:16pm | 02/09/10

      Windsor saw both costings, with regards to Labor’s he said “[Treasury] costed the Labor Party’s promises and they’re about on line with what they said they would be,”

      Its pretty amusing that you’re willing to straight out dismiss a $7-10 billion blackhole in a budget. The entire LNP campaign has been based on stopping the waste, slashing the debt, etc who cares about $7-10b?...

      I’m gonna go out on a limb and say you probably think the BER was a huge fiasco with ‘bungle’ after ‘bungle’, even though only under 3% of all the projects part of it were subject to complaint.

      I’m also alittle confused as to why you think the 3 independents will face a backlash unless they side with the coalition. All 3 have huge votes for themselves not Labor/LNP, I think the lowest was Oakeshot on 45% primary? They have a clear mandate over multiple terms to represent their electorate how they see fit. I really hope you aren’t basing your opinion off of phone and online polls conducted straight after the election…

    • BTS says:

      07:57pm | 02/09/10

      Not so silly perhaps to use a $1bn offer to bid up the cost of Wilkie’s support for Gillard (again paying too much, like the greens deal) and then swing those dollars over to the 3 independents over the next few days when Gillard is all spent out.

    • farkurnell says:

      09:20pm | 02/09/10

      sounds like a nice game of poker,but with other people’s money.Unfortunately thats our money.

    • Daniel says:

      07:46pm | 02/09/10

      Wilkie has made the right choice. Abbott is too untruthful and he even admits it. How could anyone with a brain support the guy?

    • jf says:

      05:13pm | 04/09/10

      Really Woza. I’ve not heard about it. In fact, the most recent international story I read about the interwebby was that a private company in the US was building a wireless network with greater capacity for less than $US8b. Not only is this cheaper than the $40b+ that Labor claim the NBN cost but it is easier to upgrade as technology changes, more appropriate to more internet users and more flexible in terms of connectivity.

      As to flat-earthers being against the NBN, surely it is only flat-earthers that think that this is the final and ultimate advancement in internet connection technology. Come on - you cannot truly believe that. This will be old technology before the project is even half finished. What then?

    • Evan Findlay says:

      05:32pm | 03/09/10

      nosthow,
      I was saddened when they removed that clip because I thought it was the best political ad I have ever seen. Great to see it one more time.

    • Hamish says:

      04:57pm | 03/09/10

      Fred, it’s easy to roll something out. Even they say it won’t be finished for eight years. Do you really think it will ever be completed? C’mon, be honest. Try and name a single policy this government has delivered on time and on budget. It’s on the never never.

      They’ve also budgeted too little for the first five years to roll it out as well…did someone say ‘black hole’?

      Badge, why don’t you google NBN funding shortfall…?

      Some of us don’t have to try to think, it just comes naturally.

      If something is white, looks like an elephant, smells like an elephant, costs as much as an elephant and has no cost-benefit analysis, not to mention a business case (a what?), then it’s probably a white elephant.

    • Fred says:

      02:01pm | 03/09/10

      @Hamish - it’s fine if you don’t agree with the NBN, but you can hardly call it a ‘never-never promise’ when the roll-out has already begun

    • The Badger says:

      01:40pm | 03/09/10

      There you go Hamish trying to think again.

      “everyone” is quite a large statement.

      google FTTH and see what’s up with this technology worldwide.

      I am not young enough to know everything
      Oscar Wilde

    • Hamish says:

      10:57am | 03/09/10

      John, I too am very curious about these ‘first world governments’ who are supposedly falling over themselves to copy the Australia ‘model’. I’m sure Hugo Chavez is a big fan, but I wouldn’t call Venezuela first world. I think everyone knows the NBN is the biggest white elephant ever proposed in Australia. Good thing it’s one of those classic ALP ‘on the never never’ promises.

    • GreenGoblin says:

      09:36am | 03/09/10

      Woza…explaining new technology to ‘flat Earthers’ is a total waste of time, not so much yours but definitely theirs.

    • MarK says:

      09:15am | 03/09/10

      “the whole world is praising the NBN with many 1st world governments copying the model”

      Proof please.

      Go on

    • The Badger says:

      09:04am | 03/09/10

      Tom
      The business plan is in the pipeline

      Right behind the one for the 16 billion dollars worth of fighter aircraft.

    • John DeCossa says:

      08:43am | 03/09/10

      LOL,  Woza!! Best thing i’ve read all week. Please link me to the press releases from 1st World Governments announcing they’re copying the Aus. model.. Hahah!

    • Woza says:

      01:27am | 03/09/10

      Tom…. the whole world is praising the NBN with many 1st world governments copying the model.  If it was Liberal spending 45 billion on a rail system somewhere you’d get the benefit.  What you need to do is get out of the 19th century and understand that the Governments role is to provide infrastructure, both economic and social.  The NBN is the 21st centuries equivalent of both.

    • Tom says:

      09:20pm | 02/09/10

      I’ve also got real doubts about the coalition are up for it. Where’s a Costello or Turnbull when you need em. At least Turnbull is still around.
      At the same time, we certainly don’t want another 3 years like we’ve just had. The waste has been enormous with more to come from eg, the broadband rollout. Could you ever imagine the likes of say, BHP, spending $45b without a cost benefit analysis or a business plan.

    • iansand says:

      07:17pm | 02/09/10

      Wilkie has called Abbott on mad promises of hospitals in Hobart.  Gosh.  How responsible.

    • Joan says:

      09:34am | 03/09/10

      Wilkie the pixie whistleblower told Abbott approx $1billion needed to replace hospital, then said no when given…. Tasmanian`s should be happy with that.  $1 billion on a hospital is better value than money on pink batts up in smoke and millions wasted in school building rorts. Wilkie neurotic style of politics, liberal one day, green the next,  State politics yesterday, Federal today. Independent /Labor today- will complete the Gillard , Green, work to Dilbert Principle program.  I`d take an Abbott 1 billion hospital deal over the multi-billion dollar Labor blunders any day.- pixie Wilkie prefers a package of blunders and `lost its way` deal. Lucky Tasmania!

    • cynic says:

      07:16pm | 02/09/10

      Costings blow-out was a con. Why? A blow-out of say $8b over 4 years means $2b a year in less revenue. That’s about what labor lost in pink batts in less than a year. Now labor boasts the blow-out is a con. Lets see. Labor says the libs are duds because even with the libs so called dodgy savings they are still ahead of labor’s best dodgy costings, less the mrrtax of course. So, if abbott’s surpluses are less than he quoted, they are still ahead of labor’s surpluses.  The so called black hole therefore is not really a black hole then. Some really poor reporting in this whole exercise.

    • Northern Steve says:

      09:46pm | 05/09/10

      Wayne, one little difference is that Labor had access to Treasury’s assumptions.  The Liberals didn’t.  Makes it a bit difficult, don’t you think?

      Probably why Labor didn’t submit most of their costings when they were in opposition last election.

    • Wayne says:

      08:26pm | 02/09/10

      Wow..  This has got to be the best example of Liberal doublespeak and creative accountancy I’ve ever seen.  When is a black hole not a black hole - when its not really one that all.. 

      Yes - the Coalition will have a bigger surplus (courtesy of 3.3 billion dollars of cuts that were not made public during the campaign and that the independents alluded to but did not actually tell us about), BUT both sides will be in surplus.  The fact is Treasury costed Labors promises and they came out about right (in fact there was more money saved than expected), but using the same people and assumptions, the Libs were out by between $6 and $11.4 billion.  Now.. sorry… That is a mistake - pure and simple.  The Libs would do better by admitting it instead of trying to gloss over and ignoring it.

    • Reader says:

      07:09pm | 02/09/10

      Joe Hockey said that Liberals costing numbers done by Tresury really come down to an issue of difference of opinion. In fact some astronomers may still question the existence of black holes; the economist like Hockey questions the existence of a black hole of an astronomical proportion in his costing. He has been defending his costing saying that they used different models and assumptions. Well Joe, by saying You ASSUME, You’re trying to make ASS of U and ME. Talking about different models, you are one of a kind.

    • farkurnell says:

      09:43pm | 02/09/10

      Joe and Tony should be up the Parramatta Rd selling used cars.These costings are just as reliable , they look nice and shiny ,take them around the corner for a spin and they start dropping oil.

    • Farkurnell says:

      07:08pm | 02/09/10

      Look I agrre with all the LNP supporters, we need a new election. By the end of the campaign Tony & Joe should be offering us a $20 Billion Surplus or even $40 Billion. And I’ve got a new slogan for us we can Stop the Boats and we can Stop The Planes.

    • Richard says:

      06:49pm | 02/09/10

      Wilkie was always unlikely to support the coalition (just like the 3 amigos are always unlikely to support Labor), which is why Abbott had to make a better offer to try and tempt him over to “the dark side”. As it stands, Gillard is still offering a (slightly less) massive deal to the former Green cum Independent member for a formerly safe Labor seat, so she can hardly try to claim the moral high ground.

      Only a straw-clutching desperado would suggest that this offer to build a hospital (wow, how despicable of him) will “stick to Abbott”. I mean this is the guy who admitted on live TV that he was a liar and all the commentators came out and said “oh that’s it he’s blown his chances now, its all over for Tony”, only for him to just shrug it off and keep gathering momentum. Tony Abbott has been severely underestimated by all of his opponents for the last 12 months, but he has systematically defeated them one after another to come within 3 votes (from conservative politicians) of becoming the Prime Minister of Australia.

      We have never seen a performance like this by an opposition leader. Its now got to the stage where only an “unholy alliance” of Labor, Greens, Independents, their dogs, the dog’s fleas and the kitchen sink, can prevent him from becoming Prime Minister. And if they do this, in spite of the people’s choice (as evidenced by the coalition’s higher primary vote, higher 2PP vote and highest number of seats), they will all be exposed as the sneaky malicious grubs they must be to try and deny the man the job he earned through the hard work he put in.

    • Northern Steve says:

      09:39pm | 05/09/10

      Just thought I’d thrown in that Abbott also managed to spook a party in Government to ditch their own first term PM.  Don’t think that’s ever been done.
      Liberals were gone less than 12 months ago, to be within a whisker of knocking off 2PMs in a matter of months.
      Only one of two explanations - he has actually done a pretty good job of bringing a party together and making them credible, or Labor has lost it entirely.

    • Dallas Beaufort says:

      03:31am | 03/09/10

      Richard, the fleas have underestimated the rational voting public again in their support of the liberal national parties and their leader Tony Abbott.

    • Mariss says:

      10:12pm | 02/09/10

      Evan, how many Opposition leaders since Federation have actually won against a first term Government?  Only one, I think you’ll find.

    • farkurnell says:

      10:06pm | 02/09/10

      may I remind you the LNP polled 44% of the total Primaty vote.If they polled near 50% you wouldn’t be concerned about the dogs and their fleas and any other excuse you’ve got for Tony.Wishing he was PM wont change the fact he’s not,and if he wants to be PM he’ll have to lie down with some dogs and pickup fleas ,and while he’s at it ,he may as well offer some money for some new vetinary hospitals ,cause there’s plenty of gullible voters with dogs with fleas.

    • TheRealDave says:

      10:00pm | 02/09/10

      @Evan - LOL! Gold!

      And spot on wink

    • carson says:

      08:36pm | 02/09/10

      Yeah, imagine how far he could have gone if he had actually enunciated a positive vision for the country and could count.

    • Evan Findlay says:

      07:27pm | 02/09/10

      Richard,
      “We have never seen a performance like this by an opposition leader”. Except those opposition leaders that actually won government. Some may say that their performances were a lot more impressive!

    • Brad Price says:

      07:21pm | 02/09/10

      Cha Ching!

    • PT says:

      06:39pm | 02/09/10

      What did you think the independents have been trying to do for the last week?
      Trying to get deals done for themselves.
      Money promised to a hospital.
      So what.
      Move on.

      The obsession over costings is a big media beat up.
      Liberals are in opposition.
      Pre-election opposition DO NOT have all the figures at their disposal.
      The Liberals costings on the whole hold up
      This is CONFIRMED by treasury.

      NO ONE knows the figures.
      THEY ARE FORECASTS.
      Treasury works on FORECASTS.
      NO ONE knows exactly what the future treasury figures will be.
      NO ONE including Treasury.

    • Johnno says:

      12:58pm | 03/09/10

      bill, old mate, you can be telling people “2 + 2 = 4”, but if you are screaming it repeatedly at the top of your lungs the message is going to be lost - no matter how “correct” the statement.

    • bill smith says:

      12:27pm | 03/09/10

      @ Johnno,
      Problem is that everything PT said is correct. This makes your response a smart-arse one rather than a brilliant one.

    • J says:

      09:15am | 03/09/10

      The way PT has written his post makes me think that he is Bob Katter.

    • exitstrategist says:

      08:40pm | 02/09/10

      Brilliant reply, Johnno

    • Heath Karl says:

      08:04pm | 02/09/10

      That being the case, PT, what does it say about the Coalition’s beat up on the national debt level. Cant have it both ways. For what its worth, probably not much to you, I think you’re right on this issue, but on the debt issue the Liberals are contemptible.

    • Johnno says:

      07:32pm | 02/09/10

      When you use TOO MANY capital letters it MAKES YOU SEEM UNHINGED and detracts FROM whatever message you ARE trying TO IMPART.

      I only say this FOR YOUR FUTURE reference, and so that YOUR POSTS are taken more seriously instead of being dismissed AS THE RANTINGS OF A LUNATIC.

    • Brad Price says:

      06:30pm | 02/09/10

      These numbers don’t add up when calculated using current treasury formulas. I bet that the 3 “uncommitted” independents will be a lot more sympathetic to Abbott’s reasoning and explaination than the Neolabor Independent’s.
      Bandt is a single termer whether Labor gets in or not and Wilkie will be also if Abbott gets in because then Hobart won’t get a skate park let alone a repaint to the hospital. Wilkie had too much to loose by going it alone and going early. He should of held back and waited for the other 3.

    • Randal says:

      03:44pm | 03/09/10

      Tripper I can assure you of two things at the next poll:

      Firstly, Wilkie will be last on the Liberal preference in Denison and on that basis he will need 50.1% of the Primary vote to hold the seat, which he clearly will not get.

      Secondly, that they will not repeat their error at the 2010 election, and if the Greens want to hold Melbourne or win any other seat (such as Grayndler/Denison) that they believe they are a chance in then they are going to have to offer a preference deal in marginal seats, if not they will go to the bottom of the ticket and it will be nearly impossible for them to ever again hold a seat in the House of Reps.

      I can forgive the party for Denison, as no one saw that coming, but Melbourne in particular and a rise in Green vote putting them within reach at other seats such as Grayndler was obvious and the Liberals should have put have put a high price on the preferences in those key seats that the Greens so desperately needed and a deal should have been struck that would have held McEwen and Latrobe and delivered Lindsay and Robertson and this error that should never be repeated by the party.

    • Tripper Smurf says:

      07:55pm | 02/09/10

      What makes you so sure Bandt is going to be a single termer…. Sure the Liberals would be more wise to him, but I find it hightly unlikely that the Liberals would still prefrence a Labor candidate before him..  Not to mention he would at this stage also have the power of incumbency…

      I do believe that the Green presence in the Lower House with other inner city seats on the verge of going Green is likely to increase, contary to many people’s wishes. The trends of the last 30-odd years show this to be likely.

    • Steve the Elder says:

      06:28pm | 02/09/10

      Put Barnaby Joyce back into finance, at least he was funny.

    • farkurnell says:

      08:11pm | 02/09/10

      and while your at it ,buy them a new calculator.

    • uu says:

      06:16pm | 02/09/10

      SET UP.

    • wreckage says:

      06:18pm | 04/09/10

      Eh, Abbott offers a bandaid and we get weeks of close -ups of the paint peeling in the hospital, with a split-screen to Tony’s ears. He offers a new hospital and the media get to pretend they really, truly believe the ALP are better at management and finance than the Coalition.

      “The hospital Abbott wouldn’t fix” is a worse headline, and more credible, than “Suddenly the ALP have learned to count!”

    • Kosmiester says:

      02:00pm | 03/09/10

      Absolutely… but if you can’t see it from a mile away that you are about to be done then you are not fit to lead or govern. Tony “Daffy Duck” Abbott finally reveals himself in his full glory.
      I can see Turnbull now with a wry smirk, that will be hard to wash off. Turnbull now should be given a mandate to clean out these incompetent party leaders (Abbott, Robb, Hockey and Joyce), the hanger- ons from a previous dynasty, and position himself to be the next PM when Australia votes again.

    • All says:

      01:02pm | 03/09/10

      The next set up is the three amigos extracting their revenge against the Nationals as a result of their longstanding vendettas over perceived hurts. Twist the knife slowly over a couple weeks, promise,,, promise,,,,, almost,,,,,,,,, whoops ‘sorry but we are backing Gillard’

    • Fred says:

      12:55pm | 03/09/10

      I would be more than happy to believe it was a set up… if SOMEBODY could offer some proof of this.  Anything.  Aside from Hockey and Robb merely suggesting it.  I want proof!

    • n_dude says:

      12:55pm | 03/09/10

      Setup works both ways assuming the same demand was made of Labor. If that’s the case, then Abbott fell for is hook line and sinker whilst Gillard was smart enough to see through it. Either way, it is pork barelling in a desparate bid for two leaders to get power.

      I wish I had an independent, at least we may get some hospitals, transort and better schools. Now that’s a thought…..

    • Andy D says:

      10:45am | 03/09/10

      GreenGoblin, the fact that Abbott and his people were silly enough to fall for it does not in any way lessen the fact this this was a cheap dirty stunt by Wilkie and coming as his first political move after being elected does not bode well for his integrity.

      It seems to me that Wilkie is a self serving political prostitute who has burned every group he has ever been associated with. How long before he burns Julia?

    • GreenGoblin says:

      09:17am | 03/09/10

      Andrew, it’s rather simple really…Abbott is NOT smart enough, full stop. Blind Freddy could see what Wilkie was up to and Abott and his financial whiz kids were too dumb.

    • Andy D says:

      08:24am | 03/09/10

      Even more evidence of the set up is coming out as it is revealed that Wilkie was the one who asked Abbott for the Billion dollars, not the other way around. Clearly his intention all along was not just to go with Labor but to cause maximum damage to the Coalition while he had the chance.

      Abbott and his advisors should have been smart enough not to fall for that sort of a cheap stunt.

    • Andrew says:

      07:43am | 03/09/10

      Yep definately, SET UP! Wilkie was always going to go with Labor, Abbott should have smelt a rat.

    • grace pettigrew says:

      11:30pm | 02/09/10

      Yep, from a mile off…

    • nosthow says:

      06:15pm | 02/09/10

      Yes indeed Leo - what goes around comes around and now it would not even surprise me to see even Bob Katter side with Labor. After the huge $12 billion hole in the Coalition election costings it would be hard for anyone to now listen to anything Abbott and his Family have to say - creapy and crawly !
      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BcZdzD6-aw

    • GreenGoblin says:

      09:13am | 03/09/10

      I don’t know about Katter siding with the ALP but I would be extremely surprised if Windsor and Oakeshott don’t., Either way I can’t see Abbott acquiring the magical 76 seats. If was pleasing listening to Windsors views on the Greens, it’s a pity other politicians didn’t take the same view, open your ears and eyes, The Greens are a genuine alternative to the major parties, something our rural cousins will realise soon enough.

    • Pete says:

      08:17am | 03/09/10

      Stevem…going backwards, how so ? Economy booming 1, Unemployment down 2, Have a look at the figures ...unlike your glorious leader, you should be able to figure them out…we are the best performing econmy in the western world…

    • Stevem says:

      06:34pm | 02/09/10

      Unfortunately I think your right and I know in the long term this Labor/Watermelon/Twohead/Hick Government will have Australia going backwards at a great rate of knots which will hurt all of us…..but it will be fun watching how dysfunctional they become…...Brown will think he is defacto Prime Minister, Swan will just whinge for the sake of whinging, Gillards ear lobes will droop down to her knees….and how proud will we be when we see her on the world stage representing us…..talk about creepy and crawly!

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      06:14pm | 02/09/10

      Tony Abbott must subscibe to the Enron method of accounting…..

    • Muzz says:

      08:28am | 03/09/10

      You talk about the Enron method of accounting?  That’s what it’ll be if these Greens etc impose on us a price on carbon dioxide emissions and an emissions trading scheme.

    • stephen says:

      06:09pm | 02/09/10

      No it’s not surprizing.
      Mr. Wilkie wants to debate Afghanistan in Parliament ?
      A piss-up in a beer-tent.
      Yeah, I know the man was a platoon commander and knows something of conflict, but when he starts, don’t take his words for gospel.
      He’s independant cause no-one else’ll have him. (And I’ve heard him speak, and it’s not as if he hasn’t been educated beyond his intelligence.)

    • GreenGoblin says:

      09:05am | 03/09/10

      Stephen, you would be well advised listening to Wilkie before any coalition member, remember Wilkie told us there were no WMD in Iraq, he was right. As for the LNP shadow financial experts…Barnaby Joyce, Joe Hockey and Andrew Robb with Tony Abbott steering them, that is a joke. God help Australia if these loonies are let lose on our finances.

    • Tom says:

      06:02pm | 02/09/10

      So why no story on the Punch today about Abbott’s massive costings blowout? Oh I forgot it’s a Murdoch publication.

    • acotrel says:

      10:18am | 05/09/10

      Mandatory assessment of policy costings during election campaigns,should be the subject of legislation.  Abbott could have slid into power on the basis of LIES, except for the scrutiny caused by a hung parliament, and the role of the independents!

    • TimB says:

      09:14am | 05/09/10

      Oh please. The Punch does what, 10 articles a day? Many of which aren’t “huge stories” they’re just interest pieces about whatever the writer feels like talking about. There’s plenty of big stories in the main media that don’t always break on the Punch as well: it can’t post them all, it isn’t a newspaper site.

      Not only that, but the costings issue has been done to death in The Telegraph and The Australian at least, and probably every other News Limited publication around the country. To throw out an accusation of some sort of Murdoch-initiated cover-up conspiracy is the height of ignorance fuelled stupidity.

      Penbo had every right to defend against what was a moronic attack on his professional integrity, and those of you agreeing with Tom can go join him in the halfwit club.

    • hot tub political machine says:

      06:02am | 05/09/10

      Has to be said, Tom got you nail head hammer there Penbo. Dare I say in my experience someone only gets as mad as you did when they know their critic is right. It does harm this site’s credibility badly that you (still) aren’t covering an issue as big as the Liberal blowout

    • Andrew says:

      05:52pm | 03/09/10

      I think Tom is bang on the money, hence Penbo’s completely unnecessary and unprofessional outburst. Nothing gets under the skin of a journalist more than when you question their bias and are right!

    • James says:

      03:46pm | 03/09/10

      How much is Tom right though.

    • Steve says:

      12:52pm | 03/09/10

      Have no doubt that either party would do just about anything to gain power. But when it comes to Tony you must remember his mentor JWH that paints another picture in total meaning of things, they would do and say absolutely anything to gain power.. And they have before!! As for black holes in their economical prowess where would your really start? In the seventies when Johnny played treasurer and gave us the deepest recession we have ever known as a country or the decade of squander where there was always enough to fill any black hole created!!  Whenever there is debate on economics Liberal supporters champion how great they were at eliminating debt! I don’t consider many of these people to be well informed. Here in part an article from fin review about our account deficit. Do you think Costello and friends were the great debt busters after reading the following? Labor’s stimulus package comes in at about 1% of the total enjoy. Tony might happily forget that while his former government colleagues were steering the good ship Australia, the nation’s total debt soared from a mere $700 billion in 1997 up to $3.2 trillion by the close of their term. An increase 387% Deregulation brought growth all right. But there is a yin for every yang. Opposition may well brag that it left office with zero debt - zero government debt that is as the upshot of policy was to lump it onto the consumer. The first home buyer grant that artificially inflated house prices out of everyone’s reach sold every profitable publicly owned enterprise to get a very short sighted budget surplus pushed out the credit systems where people were actually given one two and three credit cards And we wonder how and why the GFC happened!

      http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/613694

    • Tom says:

      12:24pm | 03/09/10

      David I obviously touched a nerve there, sorry about that mate. The potential $11 billion costings error was given half a paragraph on a site that claims to be a serious forum for political debate. I don’t care what your personal opinion is on the issue, but not covering perhaps the most catalytic revelation post campaign in a dedicated article does your credibility no good at all. Neither do personal insults for that matter.

      You are right, maybe my comment was not exactly related to the post, but that’s because you guys could only come with half a paragraph on the issue 20 hours after the story had broken.

      I am damn sure there would have been at least one article on the Punch if Labor had a stuffed their costings up so royally.

    • Macca says:

      12:12pm | 03/09/10

      @Penbo, I’d love to see more of this, take it to the Punchers. Except for MarK and T.Chong, seeing them bash their heads against each other every day is just brilliant

    • Steve says:

      11:57am | 03/09/10

      @David Penberthy the original article says very, very little about Liberal party costing during the election or their intransigence to come clean on their hidden agenda.  What has now been revealed is that the Liberal party election costings were either (a) incompetent, (b) deceptive or (c) both.  Tom is correct in saying that Punch has engaged in a selective cover up on this issue.
      Name calling by a journalist is a sign you need to take a holiday.

    • KCane says:

      11:55am | 03/09/10

      @David,
      “The fact that you would make this remark suggests that you’re part of that cohort of online pains in the arse who makes comments regardless of the content of a post, or that you’re just so ideologically blinkered that you would never offer a considered position on anything. “

      In fairness, this seems no more ideologically blinkered than half the rot appearing on this site.  I’ve read stupidity involving Gillard’s sagging earlobes caused by “earring abuse” and all manner of other ridiculous political opinion here.  Many responses have no connection to what has been written. Why single this post out?

    • David Penberthy

      David Penberthy says:

      11:33am | 03/09/10

      Hey Tom - reluctant as I am to disparage a loyal reader, you really are a card-carrying halfwit. This entire piece is about how Abbott has made a hash of his costings, specifically on the hospital issue. If you check Leo’s tweet on the issue too, it’s his pithy opinion (and for the record mine) that Abbott is “screwed” as a result of his costings. The fact that you would make this remark suggests that you’re part of that cohort of online pains in the arse who makes comments regardless of the content of a post, or that you’re just so ideologically blinkered that you would never offer a considered position on anything. I’d suggest you read the piece, or get a grown-up to read it aloud to you, because your remark suggests that you didn’t even comprehend the headline, let alone all those other smaller words underneath it.

    • Scot says:

      10:19am | 03/09/10

      So Leo, When is the media going to ask Labor for the costings of what the Greens party (Deputy PM)  will be costing Australia over the next 10 years if Labor gets back. The waste of ETS, BER, NBN (Uncosted or approved) When it comes to budget responsible and honesty Labor cannot spell it. The sooner we go back to the polls the better.

    • Daryl says:

      08:51am | 03/09/10

      Maybe there should be a story here on Treasury independence Tom. These people are employed by the government remember and want to keep their jobs! They are also responsible for the governments costings so they are hardly going to endorse the oppositions. This is a fraud by the treasury and the government! This is the same treasury who said the backflip on the mining tax was only going to cost $1.4b when in fact it was more like $8b. It’s the same treasury who said the NBN would cost $4b, no wait $7b no hang on $43b. The other thing that seems to be missed is that the LNP surplus is still substantially more than the ALP surplus and we all know the ALP doesn’t do surpluses!

    • James says:

      08:23am | 03/09/10

      Rot. The Coalition said that $5 billion can be accounted for through the use of different variables in their calculation methods. Treasury have said nothing. What about the other $5 billion? And in any case, how careless.

    • dale says:

      07:20am | 03/09/10

      Its funny Collin…

      One of the things that Abbot is scraping is the ablilty for policies to have blowout. there is a $2.5 billion fund to cover this and strait away abbot is saying it isnt needed, No one will rort the government.

      And there is still a $3 billion cut coming to something that has yet to be announced…

    • Mike t says:

      11:03pm | 02/09/10

      Its in the same basket as the article which examines and shows that the NBN will cost the national excessivly more then the 40 Billion, as well as the one which examines how much it will cost households to rewire there homes to make use of it..

    • Colin says:

      09:45pm | 02/09/10

      Let’s jump to the defence of Abbott. Firstly, budgets rarely mean anything these days, especially in government, and so what if there is a blow-out. No money has been spent yet. Therefore, they (the Coalition), can go back and re-work the numbers. Not only that, at least Abbott has not wasted billions of actual money, whereas Labor HAS wasted billions of real dollars. Secondly, at least Abbott has named his cabinet if he becomes PM, whereas Ms Gillard has not named her cabinet, except for Swan as treasurer. I cannot believe anyone would side with this Labor government, so if they do retain power, then Australia will get what it deserves. More mismanagement and incompetence.

    • ex-Treasury says:

      09:23pm | 02/09/10

      The real joke here is the Treasury ‘costings’.  To say the Libs have a $10b black hole over four years by the very people who have to revise their costing every six months becasue they can’t accurately predict four years into the future.  Can someone find an investigative journo who is capapable of calculating the black hole in Treasury’s budget costing from four years ago compared to actual outcomes.

    • fairsfair says:

      09:19pm | 02/09/10

      Evan, Joe Hockey is Frau Farbissiner. He does the countdown each time Tony is about to attempt to launch into something of great importance.

      “59! 58! 57…”

      Yep, there has been a couple of failed take offs. However this shagadelic analogy does make Julia and Labor the “Fat Bastard” in all this. He is in the picture because he is someone to laugh at and offers a form of comparison. He is even originally from the UK…

      “Fat Bastard has left a floater”

      Oh what a story it would be to discuss all the floaters our Julia and her cronies have left behind in these past three years.

      Yeah baby, I’ll stick with Tony - black hole and all.

    • neil says:

      09:05pm | 02/09/10

      Abbott’s massive costings blowout

      That I assume would be Red Henry’s review of the “great right scourge’s” $7B differential which treasury has already admitted can be accounted for in government determined variables. Treasury used Labor’s values in their assessment. So in a $380B budget projection over three years Red Ken reckons Abbott may be out by less than 2%. Three months ago Swan projected economic growth at 3% he was out by 10% and now there is $4B floating around in the economy and Swan has no idea where it is.

      So Abbott’s economic projections are 1800% more accurate than Swans!

    • Evan Findlay says:

      07:20pm | 02/09/10

      That’s right, Mark doesn’t read.
      Actually Mark you might be able to answer the long held question of what is Joe Hockey’s role in the shadow treasurer’s portfolio. He continually demonstrates he has no head for figures or understanding the difference between tax revenue and debt, is he there just to make Abbott look competent?
      Abbott…...The Billion Dollar Man or is it the Billion Dollar Action Man?

    • MarK says:

      07:00pm | 02/09/10

      What costing blow out?

 

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