Abbott’s Fatal Austin Powers Moment: One Billion Dollars

MarK says:

08:00pm | 02/09/10

What costing blow out?

Evan Findlay says:

08:20pm | 02/09/10

That’s right, Mark doesn’t read.
Actually Mark you might be able to answer the long held question of what is Joe Hockey’s role in the shadow treasurer’s portfolio. He continually demonstrates he has no head for figures or understanding the difference between tax revenue and debt, is he there just to make Abbott look competent?
Abbott…...The Billion Dollar Man or is it the Billion Dollar Action Man?

neil says:

10:05pm | 02/09/10

Abbott’s massive costings blowout

That I assume would be Red Henry’s review of the “great right scourge’s” $7B differential which treasury has already admitted can be accounted for in government determined variables. Treasury used Labor’s values in their assessment. So in a $380B budget projection over three years Red Ken reckons Abbott may be out by less than 2%. Three months ago Swan projected economic growth at 3% he was out by 10% and now there is $4B floating around in the economy and Swan has no idea where it is.

So Abbott’s economic projections are 1800% more accurate than Swans!

fairsfair says:

10:19pm | 02/09/10

Evan, Joe Hockey is Frau Farbissiner. He does the countdown each time Tony is about to attempt to launch into something of great importance.

“59! 58! 57…”

Yep, there has been a couple of failed take offs. However this shagadelic analogy does make Julia and Labor the “Fat Bastard” in all this. He is in the picture because he is someone to laugh at and offers a form of comparison. He is even originally from the UK…

“Fat Bastard has left a floater”

Oh what a story it would be to discuss all the floaters our Julia and her cronies have left behind in these past three years.

Yeah baby, I’ll stick with Tony - black hole and all.

ex-Treasury says:

10:23pm | 02/09/10

The real joke here is the Treasury ‘costings’.  To say the Libs have a $10b black hole over four years by the very people who have to revise their costing every six months becasue they can’t accurately predict four years into the future.  Can someone find an investigative journo who is capapable of calculating the black hole in Treasury’s budget costing from four years ago compared to actual outcomes.

Colin says:

10:45pm | 02/09/10

Let’s jump to the defence of Abbott. Firstly, budgets rarely mean anything these days, especially in government, and so what if there is a blow-out. No money has been spent yet. Therefore, they (the Coalition), can go back and re-work the numbers. Not only that, at least Abbott has not wasted billions of actual money, whereas Labor HAS wasted billions of real dollars. Secondly, at least Abbott has named his cabinet if he becomes PM, whereas Ms Gillard has not named her cabinet, except for Swan as treasurer. I cannot believe anyone would side with this Labor government, so if they do retain power, then Australia will get what it deserves. More mismanagement and incompetence.

Mike t says:

12:03am | 03/09/10

Its in the same basket as the article which examines and shows that the NBN will cost the national excessivly more then the 40 Billion, as well as the one which examines how much it will cost households to rewire there homes to make use of it..

dale says:

08:20am | 03/09/10

Its funny Collin…

One of the things that Abbot is scraping is the ablilty for policies to have blowout. there is a $2.5 billion fund to cover this and strait away abbot is saying it isnt needed, No one will rort the government.

And there is still a $3 billion cut coming to something that has yet to be announced…

James says:

09:23am | 03/09/10

Rot. The Coalition said that $5 billion can be accounted for through the use of different variables in their calculation methods. Treasury have said nothing. What about the other $5 billion? And in any case, how careless.

Daryl says:

09:51am | 03/09/10

Maybe there should be a story here on Treasury independence Tom. These people are employed by the government remember and want to keep their jobs! They are also responsible for the governments costings so they are hardly going to endorse the oppositions. This is a fraud by the treasury and the government! This is the same treasury who said the backflip on the mining tax was only going to cost $1.4b when in fact it was more like $8b. It’s the same treasury who said the NBN would cost $4b, no wait $7b no hang on $43b. The other thing that seems to be missed is that the LNP surplus is still substantially more than the ALP surplus and we all know the ALP doesn’t do surpluses!

Scot says:

11:19am | 03/09/10

So Leo, When is the media going to ask Labor for the costings of what the Greens party (Deputy PM)  will be costing Australia over the next 10 years if Labor gets back. The waste of ETS, BER, NBN (Uncosted or approved) When it comes to budget responsible and honesty Labor cannot spell it. The sooner we go back to the polls the better.

KCane says:

12:55pm | 03/09/10

@David,
“The fact that you would make this remark suggests that you’re part of that cohort of online pains in the arse who makes comments regardless of the content of a post, or that you’re just so ideologically blinkered that you would never offer a considered position on anything. “

In fairness, this seems no more ideologically blinkered than half the rot appearing on this site.  I’ve read stupidity involving Gillard’s sagging earlobes caused by “earring abuse” and all manner of other ridiculous political opinion here.  Many responses have no connection to what has been written. Why single this post out?

Steve says:

12:57pm | 03/09/10

@David Penberthy the original article says very, very little about Liberal party costing during the election or their intransigence to come clean on their hidden agenda.  What has now been revealed is that the Liberal party election costings were either (a) incompetent, (b) deceptive or (c) both.  Tom is correct in saying that Punch has engaged in a selective cover up on this issue.
Name calling by a journalist is a sign you need to take a holiday.

Macca says:

01:12pm | 03/09/10

@Penbo, I’d love to see more of this, take it to the Punchers. Except for MarK and T.Chong, seeing them bash their heads against each other every day is just brilliant

Tom says:

01:24pm | 03/09/10

David I obviously touched a nerve there, sorry about that mate. The potential $11 billion costings error was given half a paragraph on a site that claims to be a serious forum for political debate. I don’t care what your personal opinion is on the issue, but not covering perhaps the most catalytic revelation post campaign in a dedicated article does your credibility no good at all. Neither do personal insults for that matter.

You are right, maybe my comment was not exactly related to the post, but that’s because you guys could only come with half a paragraph on the issue 20 hours after the story had broken.

I am damn sure there would have been at least one article on the Punch if Labor had a stuffed their costings up so royally.

Steve says:

01:52pm | 03/09/10

Have no doubt that either party would do just about anything to gain power. But when it comes to Tony you must remember his mentor JWH that paints another picture in total meaning of things, they would do and say absolutely anything to gain power.. And they have before!! As for black holes in their economical prowess where would your really start? In the seventies when Johnny played treasurer and gave us the deepest recession we have ever known as a country or the decade of squander where there was always enough to fill any black hole created!!  Whenever there is debate on economics Liberal supporters champion how great they were at eliminating debt! I don’t consider many of these people to be well informed. Here in part an article from fin review about our account deficit. Do you think Costello and friends were the great debt busters after reading the following? Labor’s stimulus package comes in at about 1% of the total enjoy. Tony might happily forget that while his former government colleagues were steering the good ship Australia, the nation’s total debt soared from a mere $700 billion in 1997 up to $3.2 trillion by the close of their term. An increase 387% Deregulation brought growth all right. But there is a yin for every yang. Opposition may well brag that it left office with zero debt - zero government debt that is as the upshot of policy was to lump it onto the consumer. The first home buyer grant that artificially inflated house prices out of everyone’s reach sold every profitable publicly owned enterprise to get a very short sighted budget surplus pushed out the credit systems where people were actually given one two and three credit cards And we wonder how and why the GFC happened!

http://www.abc.net.au/iview/#/view/613694

James says:

04:46pm | 03/09/10

How much is Tom right though.

Andrew says:

06:52pm | 03/09/10

I think Tom is bang on the money, hence Penbo’s completely unnecessary and unprofessional outburst. Nothing gets under the skin of a journalist more than when you question their bias and are right!

hot tub political machine says:

07:02am | 05/09/10

Has to be said, Tom got you nail head hammer there Penbo. Dare I say in my experience someone only gets as mad as you did when they know their critic is right. It does harm this site’s credibility badly that you (still) aren’t covering an issue as big as the Liberal blowout

TimB says:

10:14am | 05/09/10

Oh please. The Punch does what, 10 articles a day? Many of which aren’t “huge stories” they’re just interest pieces about whatever the writer feels like talking about. There’s plenty of big stories in the main media that don’t always break on the Punch as well: it can’t post them all, it isn’t a newspaper site.

Not only that, but the costings issue has been done to death in The Telegraph and The Australian at least, and probably every other News Limited publication around the country. To throw out an accusation of some sort of Murdoch-initiated cover-up conspiracy is the height of ignorance fuelled stupidity.

Penbo had every right to defend against what was a moronic attack on his professional integrity, and those of you agreeing with Tom can go join him in the halfwit club.

acotrel says:

11:18am | 05/09/10

Mandatory assessment of policy costings during election campaigns,should be the subject of legislation.  Abbott could have slid into power on the basis of LIES, except for the scrutiny caused by a hung parliament, and the role of the independents!

GreenGoblin says:

10:05am | 03/09/10

Stephen, you would be well advised listening to Wilkie before any coalition member, remember Wilkie told us there were no WMD in Iraq, he was right. As for the LNP shadow financial experts…Barnaby Joyce, Joe Hockey and Andrew Robb with Tony Abbott steering them, that is a joke. God help Australia if these loonies are let lose on our finances.

Muzz says:

09:28am | 03/09/10

You talk about the Enron method of accounting?  That’s what it’ll be if these Greens etc impose on us a price on carbon dioxide emissions and an emissions trading scheme.

Stevem says:

07:34pm | 02/09/10

Unfortunately I think your right and I know in the long term this Labor/Watermelon/Twohead/Hick Government will have Australia going backwards at a great rate of knots which will hurt all of us…..but it will be fun watching how dysfunctional they become…...Brown will think he is defacto Prime Minister, Swan will just whinge for the sake of whinging, Gillards ear lobes will droop down to her knees….and how proud will we be when we see her on the world stage representing us…..talk about creepy and crawly!

Pete says:

09:17am | 03/09/10

Stevem…going backwards, how so ? Economy booming 1, Unemployment down 2, Have a look at the figures ...unlike your glorious leader, you should be able to figure them out…we are the best performing econmy in the western world…

GreenGoblin says:

10:13am | 03/09/10

I don’t know about Katter siding with the ALP but I would be extremely surprised if Windsor and Oakeshott don’t., Either way I can’t see Abbott acquiring the magical 76 seats. If was pleasing listening to Windsors views on the Greens, it’s a pity other politicians didn’t take the same view, open your ears and eyes, The Greens are a genuine alternative to the major parties, something our rural cousins will realise soon enough.

grace pettigrew says:

12:30am | 03/09/10

Yep, from a mile off…

Andrew says:

08:43am | 03/09/10

Yep definately, SET UP! Wilkie was always going to go with Labor, Abbott should have smelt a rat.

Andy D says:

09:24am | 03/09/10

Even more evidence of the set up is coming out as it is revealed that Wilkie was the one who asked Abbott for the Billion dollars, not the other way around. Clearly his intention all along was not just to go with Labor but to cause maximum damage to the Coalition while he had the chance.

Abbott and his advisors should have been smart enough not to fall for that sort of a cheap stunt.

GreenGoblin says:

10:17am | 03/09/10

Andrew, it’s rather simple really…Abbott is NOT smart enough, full stop. Blind Freddy could see what Wilkie was up to and Abott and his financial whiz kids were too dumb.

Andy D says:

11:45am | 03/09/10

GreenGoblin, the fact that Abbott and his people were silly enough to fall for it does not in any way lessen the fact this this was a cheap dirty stunt by Wilkie and coming as his first political move after being elected does not bode well for his integrity.

It seems to me that Wilkie is a self serving political prostitute who has burned every group he has ever been associated with. How long before he burns Julia?

n_dude says:

01:55pm | 03/09/10

Setup works both ways assuming the same demand was made of Labor. If that’s the case, then Abbott fell for is hook line and sinker whilst Gillard was smart enough to see through it. Either way, it is pork barelling in a desparate bid for two leaders to get power.

I wish I had an independent, at least we may get some hospitals, transort and better schools. Now that’s a thought…..

Fred says:

01:55pm | 03/09/10

I would be more than happy to believe it was a set up… if SOMEBODY could offer some proof of this.  Anything.  Aside from Hockey and Robb merely suggesting it.  I want proof!

All says:

02:02pm | 03/09/10

The next set up is the three amigos extracting their revenge against the Nationals as a result of their longstanding vendettas over perceived hurts. Twist the knife slowly over a couple weeks, promise,,, promise,,,,, almost,,,,,,,,, whoops ‘sorry but we are backing Gillard’

Kosmiester says:

03:00pm | 03/09/10

Absolutely… but if you can’t see it from a mile away that you are about to be done then you are not fit to lead or govern. Tony “Daffy Duck” Abbott finally reveals himself in his full glory.
I can see Turnbull now with a wry smirk, that will be hard to wash off. Turnbull now should be given a mandate to clean out these incompetent party leaders (Abbott, Robb, Hockey and Joyce), the hanger- ons from a previous dynasty, and position himself to be the next PM when Australia votes again.

wreckage says:

07:18pm | 04/09/10

Eh, Abbott offers a bandaid and we get weeks of close -ups of the paint peeling in the hospital, with a split-screen to Tony’s ears. He offers a new hospital and the media get to pretend they really, truly believe the ALP are better at management and finance than the Coalition.

“The hospital Abbott wouldn’t fix” is a worse headline, and more credible, than “Suddenly the ALP have learned to count!”

farkurnell says:

09:11pm | 02/09/10

and while your at it ,buy them a new calculator.

Tripper Smurf says:

08:55pm | 02/09/10

What makes you so sure Bandt is going to be a single termer…. Sure the Liberals would be more wise to him, but I find it hightly unlikely that the Liberals would still prefrence a Labor candidate before him..  Not to mention he would at this stage also have the power of incumbency…

I do believe that the Green presence in the Lower House with other inner city seats on the verge of going Green is likely to increase, contary to many people’s wishes. The trends of the last 30-odd years show this to be likely.

Randal says:

04:44pm | 03/09/10

Tripper I can assure you of two things at the next poll:

Firstly, Wilkie will be last on the Liberal preference in Denison and on that basis he will need 50.1% of the Primary vote to hold the seat, which he clearly will not get.

Secondly, that they will not repeat their error at the 2010 election, and if the Greens want to hold Melbourne or win any other seat (such as Grayndler/Denison) that they believe they are a chance in then they are going to have to offer a preference deal in marginal seats, if not they will go to the bottom of the ticket and it will be nearly impossible for them to ever again hold a seat in the House of Reps.

I can forgive the party for Denison, as no one saw that coming, but Melbourne in particular and a rise in Green vote putting them within reach at other seats such as Grayndler was obvious and the Liberals should have put have put a high price on the preferences in those key seats that the Greens so desperately needed and a deal should have been struck that would have held McEwen and Latrobe and delivered Lindsay and Robertson and this error that should never be repeated by the party.

Johnno says:

08:32pm | 02/09/10

When you use TOO MANY capital letters it MAKES YOU SEEM UNHINGED and detracts FROM whatever message you ARE trying TO IMPART.

I only say this FOR YOUR FUTURE reference, and so that YOUR POSTS are taken more seriously instead of being dismissed AS THE RANTINGS OF A LUNATIC.

Heath Karl says:

09:04pm | 02/09/10

That being the case, PT, what does it say about the Coalition’s beat up on the national debt level. Cant have it both ways. For what its worth, probably not much to you, I think you’re right on this issue, but on the debt issue the Liberals are contemptible.

exitstrategist says:

09:40pm | 02/09/10

Brilliant reply, Johnno

J says:

10:15am | 03/09/10

The way PT has written his post makes me think that he is Bob Katter.

bill smith says:

01:27pm | 03/09/10

@ Johnno,
Problem is that everything PT said is correct. This makes your response a smart-arse one rather than a brilliant one.

Johnno says:

01:58pm | 03/09/10

bill, old mate, you can be telling people “2 + 2 = 4”, but if you are screaming it repeatedly at the top of your lungs the message is going to be lost - no matter how “correct” the statement.

Brad Price says:

08:21pm | 02/09/10

Cha Ching!

Evan Findlay says:

08:27pm | 02/09/10

Richard,
“We have never seen a performance like this by an opposition leader”. Except those opposition leaders that actually won government. Some may say that their performances were a lot more impressive!

carson says:

09:36pm | 02/09/10

Yeah, imagine how far he could have gone if he had actually enunciated a positive vision for the country and could count.

TheRealDave says:

11:00pm | 02/09/10

@Evan - LOL! Gold!

And spot on

farkurnell says:

11:06pm | 02/09/10

may I remind you the LNP polled 44% of the total Primaty vote.If they polled near 50% you wouldn’t be concerned about the dogs and their fleas and any other excuse you’ve got for Tony.Wishing he was PM wont change the fact he’s not,and if he wants to be PM he’ll have to lie down with some dogs and pickup fleas ,and while he’s at it ,he may as well offer some money for some new vetinary hospitals ,cause there’s plenty of gullible voters with dogs with fleas.

Mariss says:

11:12pm | 02/09/10

Evan, how many Opposition leaders since Federation have actually won against a first term Government?  Only one, I think you’ll find.

Dallas Beaufort says:

04:31am | 03/09/10

Richard, the fleas have underestimated the rational voting public again in their support of the liberal national parties and their leader Tony Abbott.

Northern Steve says:

10:39pm | 05/09/10

Just thought I’d thrown in that Abbott also managed to spook a party in Government to ditch their own first term PM.  Don’t think that’s ever been done.
Liberals were gone less than 12 months ago, to be within a whisker of knocking off 2PMs in a matter of months.
Only one of two explanations - he has actually done a pretty good job of bringing a party together and making them credible, or Labor has lost it entirely.

farkurnell says:

10:43pm | 02/09/10

Joe and Tony should be up the Parramatta Rd selling used cars.These costings are just as reliable , they look nice and shiny ,take them around the corner for a spin and they start dropping oil.

Wayne says:

09:26pm | 02/09/10

Wow..  This has got to be the best example of Liberal doublespeak and creative accountancy I’ve ever seen.  When is a black hole not a black hole - when its not really one that all.. 

Yes - the Coalition will have a bigger surplus (courtesy of 3.3 billion dollars of cuts that were not made public during the campaign and that the independents alluded to but did not actually tell us about), BUT both sides will be in surplus.  The fact is Treasury costed Labors promises and they came out about right (in fact there was more money saved than expected), but using the same people and assumptions, the Libs were out by between $6 and $11.4 billion.  Now.. sorry… That is a mistake - pure and simple.  The Libs would do better by admitting it instead of trying to gloss over and ignoring it.

Northern Steve says:

10:46pm | 05/09/10

Wayne, one little difference is that Labor had access to Treasury’s assumptions.  The Liberals didn’t.  Makes it a bit difficult, don’t you think?

Probably why Labor didn’t submit most of their costings when they were in opposition last election.

Joan says:

10:34am | 03/09/10

Wilkie the pixie whistleblower told Abbott approx $1billion needed to replace hospital, then said no when given…. Tasmanian`s should be happy with that.  $1 billion on a hospital is better value than money on pink batts up in smoke and millions wasted in school building rorts. Wilkie neurotic style of politics, liberal one day, green the next,  State politics yesterday, Federal today. Independent /Labor today- will complete the Gillard , Green, work to Dilbert Principle program.  I`d take an Abbott 1 billion hospital deal over the multi-billion dollar Labor blunders any day.- pixie Wilkie prefers a package of blunders and `lost its way` deal. Lucky Tasmania!

nosthow says:

09:10pm | 02/09/10

@Daniel - beautifully put Daniel - Abbott as PM would be like doing the TIme Warp - which amazingly leads me to post this clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLM1js9CKhQ

Tom says:

10:20pm | 02/09/10

I’ve also got real doubts about the coalition are up for it. Where’s a Costello or Turnbull when you need em. At least Turnbull is still around.
At the same time, we certainly don’t want another 3 years like we’ve just had. The waste has been enormous with more to come from eg, the broadband rollout. Could you ever imagine the likes of say, BHP, spending $45b without a cost benefit analysis or a business plan.

Woza says:

02:27am | 03/09/10

Tom…. the whole world is praising the NBN with many 1st world governments copying the model.  If it was Liberal spending 45 billion on a rail system somewhere you’d get the benefit.  What you need to do is get out of the 19th century and understand that the Governments role is to provide infrastructure, both economic and social.  The NBN is the 21st centuries equivalent of both.

John DeCossa says:

09:43am | 03/09/10

LOL,  Woza!! Best thing i’ve read all week. Please link me to the press releases from 1st World Governments announcing they’re copying the Aus. model.. Hahah!

The Badger says:

10:04am | 03/09/10

Tom
The business plan is in the pipeline

Right behind the one for the 16 billion dollars worth of fighter aircraft.

MarK says:

10:15am | 03/09/10

“the whole world is praising the NBN with many 1st world governments copying the model”

Proof please.

Go on

GreenGoblin says:

10:36am | 03/09/10

Woza…explaining new technology to ‘flat Earthers’ is a total waste of time, not so much yours but definitely theirs.

Hamish says:

11:57am | 03/09/10

John, I too am very curious about these ‘first world governments’ who are supposedly falling over themselves to copy the Australia ‘model’. I’m sure Hugo Chavez is a big fan, but I wouldn’t call Venezuela first world. I think everyone knows the NBN is the biggest white elephant ever proposed in Australia. Good thing it’s one of those classic ALP ‘on the never never’ promises.

The Badger says:

02:40pm | 03/09/10

There you go Hamish trying to think again.

“everyone” is quite a large statement.

google FTTH and see what’s up with this technology worldwide.

I am not young enough to know everything
Oscar Wilde

Fred says:

03:01pm | 03/09/10

@Hamish - it’s fine if you don’t agree with the NBN, but you can hardly call it a ‘never-never promise’ when the roll-out has already begun

Hamish says:

05:57pm | 03/09/10

Fred, it’s easy to roll something out. Even they say it won’t be finished for eight years. Do you really think it will ever be completed? C’mon, be honest. Try and name a single policy this government has delivered on time and on budget. It’s on the never never.

They’ve also budgeted too little for the first five years to roll it out as well…did someone say ‘black hole’?

Badge, why don’t you google NBN funding shortfall…?

Some of us don’t have to try to think, it just comes naturally.

If something is white, looks like an elephant, smells like an elephant, costs as much as an elephant and has no cost-benefit analysis, not to mention a business case (a what?), then it’s probably a white elephant.

Evan Findlay says:

06:32pm | 03/09/10

nosthow,
I was saddened when they removed that clip because I thought it was the best political ad I have ever seen. Great to see it one more time.

jf says:

06:13pm | 04/09/10

Really Woza. I’ve not heard about it. In fact, the most recent international story I read about the interwebby was that a private company in the US was building a wireless network with greater capacity for less than $US8b. Not only is this cheaper than the $40b+ that Labor claim the NBN cost but it is easier to upgrade as technology changes, more appropriate to more internet users and more flexible in terms of connectivity.

As to flat-earthers being against the NBN, surely it is only flat-earthers that think that this is the final and ultimate advancement in internet connection technology. Come on - you cannot truly believe that. This will be old technology before the project is even half finished. What then?

farkurnell says:

10:20pm | 02/09/10

sounds like a nice game of poker,but with other people’s money.Unfortunately thats our money.

jeffb says:

11:16pm | 02/09/10

Windsor saw both costings, with regards to Labor’s he said “[Treasury] costed the Labor Party’s promises and they’re about on line with what they said they would be,”

Its pretty amusing that you’re willing to straight out dismiss a $7-10 billion blackhole in a budget. The entire LNP campaign has been based on stopping the waste, slashing the debt, etc who cares about $7-10b?...

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say you probably think the BER was a huge fiasco with ‘bungle’ after ‘bungle’, even though only under 3% of all the projects part of it were subject to complaint.

I’m also alittle confused as to why you think the 3 independents will face a backlash unless they side with the coalition. All 3 have huge votes for themselves not Labor/LNP, I think the lowest was Oakeshot on 45% primary? They have a clear mandate over multiple terms to represent their electorate how they see fit. I really hope you aren’t basing your opinion off of phone and online polls conducted straight after the election…

Christian Real says:

06:15am | 03/09/10

The three independents have an option to weigh up and consider what is best for All Australians.
By failing to do this and by just siding with the coalition as you suggest,or as their electorates suggest, could create a conflict of interest,seeing that the three ‘independents all previously belonged to the National party.
As for the blowout of their policy costings,real fair dinkum Australians care.

TimB says:

09:09am | 03/09/10

“just siding with the coalition as you suggest,or as their electorates suggest, could create a conflict of interest,seeing that the three ‘independents all previously belonged to the National party.”

Christian Real do you know what the term “conflict of Interest” even means??
It means abusing ones position for a personal advantage to the possible detriment of the electorate. It has absolute bugger all to do with what party they have belonged to in the past.

And as for “just doing what their electorates suggest”....thats called democracy, a foreign concept to you it appears. They’re supposed to represent the wishes of their electorates, if the electorate wishes for them to support the Coalition then that’s exactly who they should support.

Reg says:

09:51am | 03/09/10

Until I hear otherwise the Liberal black hole stands at $11.6 billion as presented by My ABC. Now had it been from Foxnews I’d have wavered, but there it stands.

And why should a person of Independent persuasion NOT decide to follow his commitment when choosing his direction? His followers should have been aware when they voted for him that he would have to move to achieve the best result according to his independent assessment. 

When the opportunity presents, I expect one or more of the Independents to disclose what was revealed to him on the matter of Treasury costings. There’s a small problem here though. Will both parties agree to gag any of them from doing so once they have compromised their independence?

Paul says:

10:06am | 03/09/10

jeffb - if you were getting a taxpayer funded extention to your house, would you complain as to how much the cost was (and how much rorting the tradesmen did)?

Of course you wouldnt! You couldnt care less!

This is why the ‘only 3% complaints’ argument being bandied around is so utterly utterly meaningless.

Slippery elm says:

10:07am | 03/09/10

Stewart

You say tree hugger like it’s a bad thing

GreenGoblin says:

11:53am | 03/09/10

“As for the blow out…who cares”  I for one care Stewart. the LNP went into an election with their core promises showing a cost blow out of somewhere between 5 and 10 billion (not million) dollars. They took this to the people all the while ‘spouting’ good financial management, the reality is that the LNP have lost all credibility on finances and any credibility they may have had went down the ‘gurgler’ after the 2007 election. Not one LNP member could hold a candle to Peter Costello, even Costello himself had doubts about the economic credentials of Tony Abbott.

Anne71 says:

01:44pm | 03/09/10

@2291 “That Ms Gillard is so Devious and unbelievable and also untrustworthy” - Wow, and the man who can’t or won’t tell us where $11 billion worth of costings went is NOT “devious and unbelievable and also untrustworthy”? I mean, I know NLP supporters are notoriously one-eyed, but surely that is a bit of a red flag even for you?

Chris L says:

06:44pm | 03/09/10

I don’t remember Wilke talking about fairies, but if he did believe in them that wouldn’t bother me. After all, you invoke god almighty so how are you any different?

Christian Real says:

06:42am | 03/09/10

Seano,
You are right in what you have written,Tony Abbott knew his figures and calculations would not add up if he submitted his policies for costings to the Treasury department.
Abbott,Hockey and Robb, all united together trying to explain away this huge black hole that Treasury had found in their costings.
The fact that between the three of them,they can’t add up or get their figures or calculations right,would explain why Abbott was reluctant to get Treasury to scutinise his figures.
Malcolm Turnbull would have been a better choice of leader,and at least he would have calculated the policy costings more accurately than Abbott,Hockey and Robb.

Rob r Charteris says:

02:11pm | 03/09/10

Seano says:08:18pm; You can see where Costello was coming from when he said he didn’t trust rAbbott on economic matters.

GreenGoblin says:

11:27am | 03/09/10

Perhaps it is time Ben for the other 145 members to realise they have the same power as the independents and the Green, they are all elected equally. All power to the independents.

Mr Pastry says:

11:40am | 03/09/10

Nice point @GreenGoblin - party MPs have all prostituted themselves to the party and owe their position to others and not the electorate.  I am quite pleased the balance of power is with independently minded MPs

Paul says:

11:58am | 03/09/10

GG,
The difference is, the other 145 have had the guts to make a decision as to who they will support. As did the 14 million voters who voted 2 WEEKS AGO.

The independents are being selfish. Nothing more.

The independents should have made their decision based on the same information that I had when I voted.

For example, who’s to say that if this crap about limiting the gambling on pokies (which has arising from labor’s negotiations with Wilke) had been announced before the election, the result may have been different?

You go to the polls based on policies, and its those policies you should have to stick to until the result is known.

GreenGoblin says:

12:39pm | 03/09/10

Paul @ 10:58am. Are you suggesting that it took more ‘guts’ to elect an ALP/LNP member than it did to elect an independent?
This isn’t about ‘guts’ it’s about thinking before you vote. You do realise it is the 20% of swinging voters that change governments, it’s not the rusted on major party voters. Thank god for the swinging voter.

farkurnell says:

10:24pm | 03/09/10

Ben maybe we’lll end up with 150 Indies, now that would be interesting.
My guess is the 3 Stooges are going with Julia,but need the time to nut out the spin,so they don’t get lynched by their constituents.

Ned says:

01:58am | 03/09/10

...and when these ‘stupid’ rural independents back your team you’ll think they’re the most intelligent hicks you’ve ever come across.

Paul says:

10:10am | 03/09/10

‘An ETS that will stop global warming’.

An ETS in a country that contributes less than 1% of emmissions, will stop global warming (now referred to as climate change - didnt you get the memo?).

Wow. Just….. wow.

Fred says:

03:10pm | 03/09/10

The Govt wasn’t in the red without it - they estimated they would spend a certain amount on election promises, they spent a lot less, (this is all publicly available information btw) so the left over they had for election promises is going to this hospital… the funding was explained at the press conference yesterday.

Louisa says:

10:22pm | 02/09/10

Windsor is a gumpy old man (although younger than me). I very much dislike men like this. Obviously has one huge chip on his shoulder as do many men of his age.  May need some of the products that 2GB are always advertising

MarK says:

10:16pm | 02/09/10

Nah they don’t.

But lets all hope they get their wish and Julia gets the booby prize.

i really want to see this. Terrible for the country but so so very funny.

Seano says:

08:12am | 03/09/10

Either Abbott knew his figures were bogus which is why he didn’t get them costed before the election or he can’t do his sums.

Conservatives love to scream “spin” and yet when they get caught they come up with silly defences like “smaller bigger surplus”. How embarrassing.

Tails says:

10:09am | 03/09/10

You still don’t get it do you Seano.

Surplus under Labor = smaller (if at all).
Surplus under Coalition = bigger.

iansand says:

10:13am | 03/09/10

Surplus under Liberal = Calculated in such a way as to demonstrate incompetence.  I have a sneaking suspicion that this might be the problem, not the raw numbers.

MarK says:

10:25am | 03/09/10

The really really silly thing is that when Treaury uses different assumptions than the coalition modellers and different forecasts like rates of interest they come up with different figures and people get surprised.

Yet in the same year they blindly look away from the fact Treasury got the mining tax so wrong and fiddled with figures to suit a political aim.

They won’t get it Tails because it is too inconvenient to look at the facts.

Love this stuff. For all the posturing and grandstanding we have 2 leftleaning independents siding with Labor /shock and now wait on 3 guys representing conservative electorates to get a set and declare their hand after wringing their 16 (yes 16 they are greedy and went for an extra minute) minutes of fame for all it was worth.

GreenGoblin says:

12:05pm | 03/09/10

MarK @ 09:25am. Katter, Windsor and Oakeshott are independents and elected as such. I would have said ‘progressive’ electorates rather than conservative. We must not lose sight of the fact that it is the conservative vote that has created this situation

Trjn says:

12:46pm | 03/09/10

The Coalition’s costings deliver a surplus of $800m to $4.5bn under the Treasury’s calculations by 2014. They promised $11.5bn.

Labor will deliver approx $400m by 2014.  That’s very slightly more than they promised.

This shows that Labor’s economic policy is stronger because the gap between what they’ve promised to deliver and what they’ve shown to be able to deliver is SIGNIFICANTLY less than the Coalition’s gap.

Furthermore, Liberal supporters are getting up in arms about how Labor is financially irresponsible for how they are currently in debt due to how they handled the GFC. Actions that have been praised globally by economic leaders and that latest numbers have backed that up.

When you campaign on the strength of your economic management, it really does help that when you get the first chance to show your work that it actually is accurate.

Labor has promised to deliver vital infrastructure whilst still bringing the budget to surplus in the same time frame, the Coalition on the other hand has promised to simply cut spending in order to bring the budget to surplus.

Spend a little more, get a LOT more, spend a little less, get a LOT less. You tell me which is truly best for the country.

Tails says:

02:15pm | 03/09/10

Trjn - I don’t even know where to start correcting you. Possibly because your response is so riddled with nonsensical arse-gravy, you’ve sucked all the oxygen out of the room.
If you want to barrack, go to the footy this weekend. If you want to talk sense, it’s best to ‘learn’ sense first.

Seano says:

06:29pm | 03/09/10

No Tails I don’t get because it’s bollocks.

You can’t mismanage your accounts and then claim it’s ok because you’re still in the black. Ridiculous.

Chris L says:

06:47pm | 03/09/10

“Trjn - I don’t even know where to start correcting you.” - that would explain why you devolved into purile insults.

Reg says:

10:22am | 03/09/10

Try as they may, Liberal supporters have never really been able to convince the electorate that there is practically no difference between Labor and Liberal. They have been very quiet about it for this election because they need to highlight the “differences” The fact is that when it comes to community concern, the Labour Party’s goal is far broader than that of the Liberals and their camp followers who intrinsically believe in trickle down economics.

So for Labor to give a billion for a hospital, is vastly different from when Liberal does the same. Labor believes in community support while Liberals believes in Private Hospitals and that if private enterprise does not supply the facility then SUFFER. In this respect the Liberals have had to compromise their basic principles to counter the more appealing Labor one. (But be warned, it simmers in the back-ground.) 

So for the Liberals, et al to offer Mr Wilkie a hospital, is a slimy bribe but for Labor to do the same is a community service.

See, it’s all in the detail.

jeffb says:

11:22pm | 02/09/10

Throwing a billion dollars around to try and win government in an election where he promised some measure of fiscal accountability, his entire campaign was about ending the waste and mismanagement, surely we can all agree is highly irresponsible and somewhat dishonest?

GreenGoblin says:

10:45am | 03/09/10

Tony Abbott was outsmarted by Andrew Wilkie…suck it up!

jeffb says:

02:47pm | 03/09/10

And Andrew Robb hilariously by Tony Jones on Lateline, that one billion for the RHH is now coalition policy, the black hole just got alittle bigger.

TheRealDave says:

11:02pm | 02/09/10

And then got hung out to dry BY the Liberals.

Itsajakup says:

02:34am | 03/09/10

Hmmmm….. and you work in the mining industry like me? Funny we can’t keep up. I’m in mobile cranes and trucking. This sector is set to more than double in the next few years to meet demand. Our biggest brake up here is accommodation and infrastructure. The miners can’t build it fast enough. The least of our worries is a mining tax.

When the GFC hit we never even skipped a beat. The proposed tax never even got on the radar here.

Reg says:

11:44am | 03/09/10

Thanks guys it’s interesting to see the picture in unclear even within the industry itself, no wonder we simple city folk find it confusing. That’s why we depend on our elected government to look at the big picture and act as arbiters on our behalf.

Reg says:

01:11pm | 03/09/10

Lance, how is it different when one of the parties scrapes in by a small margin? No matter which party, to govern with a majority of 1%, or what-ever, still means that the governing party is depending on numbers equivalent to what the Independents or Greens have to offer.

With all the variables I would never be surprised to find a difficulty in costing although I would never DARE to say that Treasury had never got it right.  Cost blow-outs are inevitable. The development of the American Atomic Bomb springs to mind for the urgency of the project. ONE HUNDRED times the original projected cost.

jb says:

09:40am | 03/09/10

Ah no dave don’t think so.
Wilkie went to Abbott asking him to fix the Tasmanian health system that was castrated by the Labor govt, he agreed to help fix the system then mr intelligence officer runs back to gillard claiming Abbott is reckless.
Not a bad set up!
Howard was right this guy clearly is a national security threat, he is incapable of keeping his mouth shut and the Rudd/gillard/brown govt will need to keep it’s secrets close to their chest with this guy around…

Rob r Charteris says:

02:27pm | 03/09/10

TheRealDave says:10:08pm; Yeah and it was the same with bob Brown rAbbott said he was a man of great integrity last week. Now listen to what they’re saying about him. You can certainly see who is the one who has lost all integrity.

Fred says:

03:31pm | 03/09/10

@ Jb - “Howard was right this guy clearly is a national security threat”

Wow - of all the things you could have had a go at him about, you choose the one thing that he was right about all along???

Steve says:

11:45pm | 05/09/10

Completely agree. A loud, negative buzz when you lose will help. As would making the games win or lose instead of a controlled, drawn out lose. Side note, has anyone considered the impact the pokie reform will have on the governments yearly earnings? Ms gillard jumped on that one with not a question raised (probably because deep down we all agree with the policy) yet Abbott agrees to a billion dollars for a hospital on a whim and all hell breaks loose. Seems obvious to me, if people are gambling less then the government earns less in tax.  How much less?

GreenGoblin says:

11:11am | 03/09/10

Mike t, you may be the delusional one. take a peek at the AEC results, the Greens swing was about 3.5%, therefore their base support is around 10% like it or not, the Green vote is here to stay,  in fact, I’ve got good money to say they will increase their vote at the next election.  Out of curiosity, have you ever once read even ONE Green policy, do yourself a favour and read some before denigrating them.

Mike T says:

12:01pm | 03/09/10

Thanks Green Goblin…in regards to your comment around ability to read maybe you should practice what you preach. At what point did i say anything negative about the greens policy??? in actual fact i think some if thier policies are fine…. my point is that i untill the election thier policies have not been heavily assessed from the media or the general public. Now that they will be i do beleive that MANY working class Australian will be uncomfortable with alot of the….even as a left wing greenie im sure even you would agree with that. So again, i thank you for your comment i would just ask that you read mine in total before commenting next time

Chaos says:

04:26pm | 03/09/10

Green Goblin. Here to stay? Democrats got over 10% and where going to be the ones to ‘Keep the Bastards Honest’.

They’re still around right?

About ‘Green’ Policies the ones which make me nervous are the ones which are based on envy of ‘wealthy’.

Estate tax.
Higher marginal rate.
Limit losses that be offset against capital gain.
Higher Company Tax.
Higher mining tax.
Etc…

Kevin says:

10:43am | 03/09/10

At least a childless PM isn’t going to introduce an irresponsibly generous parental leave scheme to coincide with her daughters reaching child bearing age.

TheRealDave says:

12:12pm | 03/09/10

“that Julia Gillard will move into the Lodge as the first atheist, childless female PM with boyfriend Tim.”

Bitter much Rosie?

Reg says:

12:18pm | 03/09/10

Rosie .. “Tony Abbott must have picked up the false flirtations from Wilkie so baited him with the $1b hospital deal knowing very well he wouldn’t take it up anyway.”

Are you telling us that Tony Abbott is playing with the electorate by telling and offering us things that are NOT factual?  And kindly desist from describing people as atheists for no other reason than to reflect your own narrow beliefs. There is no such group as Atheist, except in your mind.

GreenGoblin says:

12:29pm | 03/09/10

tad unfair Kevin…I was looking forward to my taxes supporting a struggling family make ends meet in Northern Sydney seats.

Marie says:

01:12pm | 03/09/10

Rosie it’s not over until the fat lady sings.  The fat lady being Gillard, a gray haired woman who never carried children but whose jackets will not close over her arse of a horse or the paunch behind her strained front coat button.  But Gillard wouldn’t sing Rosie, she would screech in that unfeminine, condescending style we have come to distrust.
I don’t think men can see how they are being conned and I hope at least the wives of the independents are a wake up to Gillard’s connivances.
She’s big trouble, Rosie.  Big trouble.  Those gesticulating hands, the butchering of the English language, her self-important flippant remarks and the latest many deals the one with the manipulative Wilkie - all planned and executed.  Both of them devious bed-fellows but who would want to be in a real bed with either.  What an unpalatable thought.
Surely to God we may not have to suffer this awful woman and her traffic offending de facto living in the Lodge for three years - don’t think she would last that long anyway under the circumstances.
If the country independents are real dinkum men, they won’t be suckered. She ripped the guts out of Rudd, virtually lost it for Labor, gave away billions of our money, and its obvious thinking Australian women saw through it because they sure didn’t give her the green light.
Cheer up Rosie, she won’t last.  She like her conspirator Wilkie, Shorten, Howes Arbib, Feney and the union heavies will pay a high price for what their cronies have done.  They’ve all but stuffed this country’s finances and the future of our children in three years and still we’re living through their circus act two weeks after the election she hasn’t even crawled in. They’re all using each other Rosie they’re the biggest bunch of users I’ve ever witnessed.

TheRealDave says:

02:14pm | 03/09/10

Yes, bitter indeed

Reg says:

02:45pm | 03/09/10

“Thank you dear lady”.

The Badger says:

02:52pm | 03/09/10

Full name Rose Marie?

you are starting to get the hang of posting twice Rosie. Unfortunately the vitriol gives you away

Scarneck says:

04:18pm | 03/09/10

Marie @ 12:12 says “They’ve all but stuffed this country’s finances”  I want to know how do we stop treasury reporting blatant lies in respect to our finances? I’ve been reading lately that Australia is one of the better performing economies in the world, these blatant lies must stop. It is having a major impact on our mining operations and business confidence.

Rosie says:

08:10pm | 03/09/10

Leo please can you explain to Badger The Harass that I was not posting as Marie.

Anyway thanks Marie, reading your comments enables me to at least enjoy the weekend. Gee I do hope you are correct.

TheRealDave - nothing to be bitter about! Either Lab or Libs will make no difference to the comfortable lifestyle I now deserve because I was smart enough to take responsibility of my retirement when I had the earning power. This is a land of opportunities and if you are prepared to work hard you do not have to rely on any Govt for any handouts.

Have a great weekend, I am and thanks to Marie!

Six of one says:

10:28am | 03/09/10

Abbott has appeared flounder with these negotiations.  He cannot compromise and negotiate and relies on a position of power to force ideas, otherwise he is lost.  Don’t like Gillard, but she certainly took control and played the game well, good luck to you and your Government Julia, just remember its our money not yours.

GreenGoblin says:

11:20am | 03/09/10

It’s called politics Jane, Tony Abbott and his financial advisers were simply outsmarted.

iansand says:

10:16am | 03/09/10

What if the LNP form government?  How does the Treasury conspiracy pan out then?

Reader says:

10:48am | 03/09/10

You may just be the last man standing and defending the wrong side of the argument only because others decided to back the right one. You sound a bit like a bookie but I’m not sure whether you pretending to be a prophet or more like a profiteer

Chris L says:

01:05pm | 03/09/10

After over a decade of Liberal government (the people that installed Henry and sang his praises, who also introduced the charter of budget honesty in the first place) Treasury decide to abandon their impartially and jump ship to the Labor side during their first term. Is that pretty much what you’re saying Dash?

Northern Steve says:

10:57pm | 05/09/10

Another interpretation of the low Labor vote in the two Ind seats is that a lot of ‘natural’ Labor voters are also voting for the independents with their first preferences.
Still, it’s difficult to see Labor managing in minority government to come up with some of plan that won’t tick off a) the Greens b) the indies or c) core Labor voters.  It may happen on social issues, but it won’t happen in economic reform.

Karen says:

11:34am | 03/09/10

It was Wilkie who asked Abbott for 1 Billion, Wilkie was playing a game. Wilkie must be a very convincing liar for Abbott not to suspect he was being baited.

Peetme says:

11:51am | 03/09/10

I agree with you Laurie. What I was trying to emphasise here was the perfidious nature of the man and his actions.

Leaving aside the money issue, why stand as an independant if this was the intent in the first place?

Dash says:

01:33pm | 03/09/10

You’re right Karen. The other point to note is that he is saying he wants responsible funding yet he’s happy to support the ALP which presided over the insulation fiasco which is still costing the tax payer millions to put right. And he’s also supporting an ALP which stood by whilst taxpayers money was rorted by Labor backed builders under the school halls program. HYPOCRITE!

Pirate Treasury says:

12:06pm | 03/09/10

Babs - i’d like to know when treasury became a font of wisdom, their forecasts are never anywhere near accurate.

Sheldon says:

11:41am | 03/09/10

I think the indies are going with Labor. I didn’t think Katter would go with Labor until I saw his interview on Sky News this morning

Reg says:

12:54pm | 03/09/10

More traditional Liberal negativity and premature gloom and doom.  I’m prepared to wait and see how they perform.

I’m still waiting to be reassured that the WA Nationals actually do not consider themselves part of the Coalition. Twelve months or eighteen months from now one of the Independent could actually be PM which would be no worse that having one of the indecisive Nationals.

Mac says:

05:53pm | 03/09/10

The poor performance of the Clinical School at RHH for several years was not due to funding issues, but the competence of the staff charged with the responsibility of adhering to regulations.  I trained there myself.

You might have noticed media reports in the last six months describing the Australian population as being stale towards BOTH parties.

All independents will probably receive a shift in their votes at the next election based on who they have chosen to support in this period - that’s hardly surprising.

RobJ says:

01:55pm | 03/09/10

LOL - Thanks, my point stands, two posts made on News sites yesterday (here and the Australian), not published, it wasn’t like the Australian was inundated with posts (unless they were censoring most posts)

TheRealDave says:

02:21pm | 03/09/10

A covert Laborite in the overt advertising arm of the LNP??

He musta lied on his resume….

Chris L says:

06:56pm | 03/09/10

I always got the feeling that Leo leans to the right. The fact that he is still capable of seeing fault in the side I suspect he favours says much for his integrity.

I’m not suprised he gets accused of being left wing for acknowledging an obvious gaffe by Abbot, consdering the vitriol being spewed at Henry despite his appointment by the Costello and praise from Howard.

It seems the right will turn on their own the instant they hear anything that smacks of criticism.

Dallas Beaufort says:

12:55am | 04/09/10

Jason, I accept your logic that labor and the greens should be allowed to stew in their own juices, but approximately 50% of the voters (Australian people) want a grown up government which has a track record of repairing our economy after the last set of green labor disasters and giving in to these vandals would be a gross irresponsibility regardless of the difficulties faced. Just look at the dangers faced by our Australian forces and their determination to not give in and leave until they are completely satisfied with their job lot and its result .

Simon says says:

05:45pm | 03/09/10

“suggest that Treasury has never predicted the next 6 months accurately”

Quite.

But then, they don’t do predictions. They give carefully hedged forecasts and policy advice in accord.  The conservatism of the Treasury, or of the Reserve Bank for that matter, in looking at economic numbers, is for good reason and to our national advantage. And explained on each occasion.

Either Randal either doesn’t read ‘em carefully or is too keen to apply negative spin to bother to represent ‘em accurately.

Simon says says:

04:55pm | 04/09/10

Nonsense. Wilkie’s considered opinion sounds quite reasonable to me as an ordinary voter. Good on him for having a bit of spine and plain talking.

‘‘I couldn’t even have confidence that they would find that $1 billion, particularly on Thursday after the black hole appeared in their costings,’’ Mr Wilkie told The Age yesterday.

‘‘In the end I could have more confidence that Labor actually had that money, and I could also act in the national interest, opening up another $1.5 billion to go to health and hospitals nationally.’‘

http://www.smh.com.au/federal-election/wilkie-defends-rejecting-1-billion-hospital-offer-20100903-14uhf.html

Simon says says:

02:33pm | 05/09/10

Suggest you have a read of Laura Tingle and you’ll know why.

“There are two possible explanations for how an opposition presenting itself as an alternative government could end up with an $11 billion hole in the cost of its election commitments.

One is that they are liars, the other is that they are clunkheads. Actually there is a third explanation: they are liars and clunkheads.

But whatever the combination, they are not fit to govern.”

Ms T is an experienced, accurate front-rank journalist,  with the Fin Review.  Uncomfortable though it may be for some, her assessment sounds pretty right to me.
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2010/09/04/liars-clunkheads-or-both/

The plain fact is that for the past year the Libs have persistently and wildly overstated every single position they’ve taken, and every single policy or program they’ve attacked, from debt on down the scale. 

It’s simply not good enough.