Tony Abbott’s proposed people’s vote on the carbon tax is either a shallow stunt, a cunning manoeuvre, or both.

You have no idea how tough it is to illustrate a plebiscite

The fact that he equivocated when asked if he too would observe the people’s verdict, as he is demanding of the PM, suggests it is firmly in the former camp. Which BTW, makes it a giant waste of money as well as being an exercise in unattenuated hypocrisy.

What else is there to conclude from his promise, restated yesterday, to rescind the carbon tax in office even if the people have backed it in?

Regardless, the stunt has already worked at its primary level and marks a new and dangerous phase in his escalating siege of Julia Gillard. Dangerous for her, but possibly for him as well.

Clearly the Opposition now gauges the government’s political embattlements to be so compromised that an escalation of artillery fire may bring them down. But a careful examination of the language coming from the Abbott forces tells another story too.

Strategically, Tony Abbott is already looking beyond the immediate to the medium term - to what happens if the current prime minister is replaced, because that too carries risks especially this far out from an election.

To illustrate this point, let me take you back about 13 or 14 months. Kevin Rudd was prime minister. It was an election year. He had been in a dominant poll position for a long time and although experiencing a post-Copenhagen existential crisis, was still a reasonable chance to win the election to be called at his discretion.

But Tony Abbott was unquestionably in the ascendency. His bedraggled forces had pulled in tight behind him in precisely the way they had refused to do for Malcolm Turnbull. Newly united, they were for the first time, daring to believe.

Yet behind their hardline dismissal of the prime minister as all press release, no program, senior Coalition figures were quietly worried about being too successful in their hatchet job on Rudd. They wanted him wounded but they also wanted him to lead Labor to the election.

Behind the scenes, some canvassed the big variable as they saw it: a late switch to Julia Gillard - at the time, the Parliament’s most competent and formidable performer. It might seem strange now, but this was their horror scenario.

The concern was that if Labor switched, the new PM would get a honeymoon, and she would have the licence afforded a new leader to axe the mining tax and pull the government into line.

As more evidence mounted, through public polling and their own private research, they increasingly believed they had Rudd’s measure and had watched with glee as he walked away from emissions trading, mangled his messages, and led his pathetically compliant team into the absurdity of the Resources Super Profits Tax.

The fact is, few pundits, this one included, took the likelihood of a change-over that late in the term seriously - a complacency that was not contested by the fact that the suggestion had emanated from the Liberal Party: they would say that wouldn’t they, and besides, what would Liberals know about the internal views the Labor Caucus? Nothing, right?

The answer to that was yes. And No.

Their fears, as it turned out, were well placed. Pundits didn’t pick it, but other politicians did.

Perhaps this is because Liberals did not need to possess a detailed knowledge of the ALP so much as to understand a more universal truth: how dynamic forces like power and ambition and survival determine behaviour within political parties.

In short, they knew the Gillard switch was a strong possibility because, as inconceivable as it seemed outwardly, it was precisely what they would have considered doing in similar circumstances.

Why is this relevant now? Because Liberals, from Tony Abbott down, are again considering the possibility of a Labor leadership switch.

The evidence is everywhere. Senior Coalition figures are already broadening their attack lines to spray the Government rather than the PM specifically. As one very senior MP told me yesterday, “we have stopped worrying about Julia and started campaigning against the Labor brand just in case someone else takes over’‘.

Others have openly said on the record that it would make no difference who was running the Government, the policies are at fault - which is code for, it might actually make a difference who they put in and we’re dead worried about it.

While again, it seems inconceivable that Labor could axe another sitting PM, and equally inconceivable that Labor MPs would return to Rudd after the previous disaster, it is telling that Liberals are again muttering about it as their chief fear.

While another change of PM would almost certainly backfire on Labor, resulting in the independents walking away, voters branding them a rabble, or even a Labor MP or two quitting if it re-installed Kevin Rudd, it is telling that the Liberals regard it is a live possibility.

And some fear it might even work if it was seen by voters as righting a wrong they had never understood or supported in the first place.

As remote or fanciful as it is, it is a risk Tony Abbott has thought about and would no doubt like to avoid.

237 comments

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    • Erick says:

      05:51am | 21/06/11

      I’d be surprised if Gillard is still leader by the end of the year. She’s an ongoing disaster, and her election lies are baggage she can’t discard.

      With a new leader, the Labor Party could blame the carbon tax debacle on Gillard. It would still face a problem over whether or not to dump the tax - risking the loss of Green support - but at least it would gain some relief from the burden of a despised PM.

    • VVS says:

      08:27am | 21/06/11

      Issues aside, Gillard’s biggest problem is a lack of personality…

      If she actually has one, she needs to find it pronto!

    • Nafe says:

      08:58am | 21/06/11

      Erick, I believe a leadership change is the only way for Labor to improve in the polls, You are dead right on the baggage of Gillard. But Dumping the Carbon Tax and improving boarder security would leave Abbott no where else to go except by announcing a positive agenda for the future.

      I have read Battlelines and i know where Abbott should be headding, as a Liberal and Abbott supporter, i believe his direction is good, but not sure if worplace reform or other Liberal beliefs are right for the electorate at this time. But without this agenda starting to be laid out to the electorate now, any change in leadership and change in Labor policy direction will be the political death of Abbott

    • ZSRenn says:

      09:22am | 21/06/11

      I disagree with you Erick. Part of the deal with the independents was that Labor supply a stable government for the term.

      Change her and all bets are off especially when it comes down to Mr Rob Oakesmitten.

      They want power now at any cost to themselves or to Australia.

      PS I am sure Mark wanted the headline to read
      “Abbotts Carbon outrage is all part of his cunning stunt!”
      I wonder who changed it.

    • Sarah says:

      10:41am | 21/06/11

      Couldn’t agree more Erick. I have an odds betting pool going at my work right now, taking bets on the date she will be thrown out. If the plebiscite manages to get through - the wisest thing for the ALP to do, would be to hang Gillard out to dry and blame it on her. It probably won’t do anything to prevent the landslide at the next federal election - but optimistically, it probably couldn’t hurt either. In their view anyway.

    • Bill says:

      12:18pm | 21/06/11

      As an investor the number one rule is cut your losses - not average them down. Unfortunately for them this government didn’t do that. The ETS was a loser and when they got to power they should have reneged on their agreement with the Greens (cut their losses again) instead of reneging on the Australian people and our democracy (they averaged their losses).
      I hope Gillard stays as the longer she stays the bigger their loss and that will be just desserts for taking us Australian voters as idiots.

    • Mark says:

      12:35pm | 21/06/11

      @ Eric

      First the Prime Minister wasn’t going to form Government, then she wasn’t going to last a week, then a month, then until Xmas, and now here we are in June and apparently we might have to wait until the end of the year. You’re just not very good at this, are you?

    • stevem says:

      01:05pm | 21/06/11

      I can’t see Labor dumping Gillard. NSW sat through Labor “reinventing” itself 3 times and we have become far too cynical about shuffling chairs for us to see it as anything but another Labor con job, costing as many votes as it gains.
      Secondly both Windsor and Oakshott have threatened to bring down the government if Labor dump Gillard. That threat has to be tempered by the fact that a double dissolution will see them both on the dole queues.
      From Labor’s perspective the ideal situation is for Julia to step down due to health concerns. The public must perceive these as real, however, as a sham would, once again, cost them votes.
      I still predict this government will fall 3rd quarter next year as the alliance between Labor, the Greens and the independents collapses under the pressure of their egos.

    • Erick says:

      01:49pm | 21/06/11

      @Mark - Please provide quotes and links to show that I ever said any of those things.

      You can’t, because you just made up all that rubbish.

      You’re not very good at this, are you?

    • Mark says:

      02:29pm | 21/06/11

      @ Eric

      Try the first comment of any thread on any topic from the past year.

    • Ex-Labor, now Democrat says:

      02:32pm | 21/06/11

      As much as I loathe Tony Abbott and much of what he represents, I will at least credit him with not being Julia Gillard.

    • Erick says:

      03:23pm | 21/06/11

      @Mark - So you can’t provide any evidence to back up your claims? That’s no surprise, because you just made all those things up.

      You are a liar, Mark. And you’re not very good at it.

    • Mark says:

      03:42pm | 21/06/11

      @ Eric

      “Erick says: 05:51am | 21/06/11

      I’d be surprised if Gillard is still leader by the end of the year.”

      Any tips for the Melbourne Cup ?

    • dovif says:

      03:52pm | 21/06/11

      Gillard has a mandate on the Carbon tax

      She went to the electorate with the platform that there will be no Carbon tax under a government she led. And since she was elected on that platform

      So Gillard has a mandate for no Carbon tax.

      We do not need to go back to the voters, Abbott should stopped with his pubresant pubricide

      Gillard has a mandate and Australian had spoken

    • Erick says:

      04:09pm | 21/06/11

      You claimed that I said: “First the Prime Minister wasn’t going to form Government, then she wasn’t going to last a week, then a month, then until Xmas”.

      But you can’t produce a single authentic linked quote from me, saying any of those things. That’s because no such quotes exist. You just made all of them up.

      Until you come up with actual quotes and links, that’s all I have to say to you.

      You’re a liar, Mark. And everyone can see it.

    • Mark says:

      04:42pm | 21/06/11

      @ Eric

      Trying to resort to only partial quotes ?

      But everyone can see the whole quote at 12:35pm.

      “Erick says: 01:49pm | 21/06/11

      @Mark - Please provide quotes and links to show that I ever said any of those things.”

      Everyone can see who the liar is.

    • Soames says:

      03:36pm | 22/06/11

      Of Course, it’s no coincidence that the Sub (or such) at the Murdoch press, has hit his enter key at 5.45 am on Mark Kenny’s piece, and the other employee of the Murdoch press, Erick, the planted troll,  has hit the enter key on his commentry 6 minutes later, as is what happens on most topics here. Have a nice day.

    • Andy1 says:

      06:01am | 21/06/11

      The point is if Abbott can get the word of the people out loud and clear and Gillard ignores them, then she is well and truly cooked. I would hardly describe allowing the voice of the people to be heard a “waste of money”. Trying to muzzle the people of Australia will make things even worse for Gillard.
      Yep a stunt, (so was Gillards “there will be no carbon tax under a Government I lead”) but very clever. He wants Gillards job and a Coalition Government, after all he is Opposition Leader and that’s his job. Coalition supporters expect nothing less from him. Well done Abbott.

    • AliceC says:

      08:36am | 21/06/11

      Do you know if the majority of voters decide they do want a tax on carbon, they Tony will not honour this? He too will be ignoring the voice of the people…

    • Mayday says:

      08:58am | 21/06/11

      AliceC…...I believe Tony knows the vote will be a resounding NO to a carbon tax so he’s pushing ahead.

      The chances of a yes vote are slim so the Opposition don’t need to worry about being seen to be “hypocritical.”

    • Nafe says:

      09:05am | 21/06/11

      Good point Allice C But on the other side of the coin, If a yes vote on a carbon Tax is realised, Abbott will be rolled as Opposition leader. So it won’t matter what Abbott believes, it will be Turnbull’s policy then.

      This vote will be a great way for either 1. No Carbon Tax or 2. A decent carbon tax where the Government can then sideline the greens and work directly with the Coalition

    • acotrel says:

      09:16am | 21/06/11

      Of course Tony Abbott wants a plebiscite when the public hasn’t heard the full extent of the deal!  That’s his style!  A minute ago we had defence manufacturing where technology R&D was done, and the Libs never really supported that.  Now we have an opportunity to get back into science and engineering again, but Abbott’s not a ‘tech head’, so he’s being negative AGAIN! When will people come to understand that he’s a hollow man - there’s nothing to him!

    • ripa says:

      09:17am | 21/06/11

      @AliceC

      When did TA say that he would not honor it?

    • PTom says:

      09:30am | 21/06/11

      @ripa,

      Yesterday on Radio.

    • ripa says:

      10:22am | 21/06/11

      @Ptom

      Which radio? The 2ue interview with Morrison? he didnt say it then.

    • leo says:

      10:41am | 21/06/11

      I agree Andy, labor greens and Indies are not listening.  I don’t think we should have a plebiscite, only because neither Party will honour it.  you only have to look at Gillards pigheadedness on the Malaysion solution to realise the PM does not even listen to the labour faithful ,  she certainly wouldn’t honour a plebiscide on carbon tax.  I think TA is doing a great job , he is listening.  I would never vote for Turnball he should be sitting on the other side.

    • Master Cylinder Pants says:

      11:23am | 21/06/11

      Sorry AliceC but that is missing the point completely.  The Liberals are not in power and did not obtain power based on a lie. It is Labor who must obtain the mandate to legitimise their carbon dioxide tax adventures.

      Abbott doesn’t have to honour the results of the plebicite as he will take his policies to the next election and let the people decide.  They will be given the chance to vote - a chance they were denied by Gillard.

    • ripa says:

      01:40pm | 21/06/11

      @Ptom

      Thanks for the link, that certainly does make TA sound like quite the hypocrite.

      TONY ABBOTT:
      Well, if my plebiscite gets up and the people vote against a carbon tax, I think it’s utterly inconceivable that this Government could introduce one.
      NICK MCCALLUM:
      No, but presuming it doesn’t your policy is still to repeal that tax…
      TONY ABBOTT:
      Oh yes, absolutely. I mean, my position on a carbon tax is that I am against it in opposition and I will rescind it in government.

    • Matt says:

      02:31pm | 21/06/11

      @PTom, he didn’t say anything of the sort.

      “NICK MCCALLUM:
      And if we go to an election in the middle of 2013, the Government has already implemented the carbon tax, you will go to that poll, won’t you, with a policy to repeal that tax?
      TONY ABBOTT:
      Well, if my plebiscite gets up and the people vote against a carbon tax, I think it’s utterly inconceivable that this Government could introduce one.
      NICK MCCALLUM:
      No, but presuming it doesn’t your policy is still to repeal that tax…
      TONY ABBOTT:
      Oh yes, absolutely. I mean, my position on a carbon tax is that I am against it in opposition and I will rescind it in government.”

      They are talking about the 2013 election in the (likely) event the plebiscite is not held.

    • David C says:

      03:04pm | 21/06/11

      If the plebiscite is held and the majority vote for a carbon tax then TA will presumably have to wait until the next election for any hope to gain power. At the next election he will campaign to change the tax, thus if he gets in he will rescind it. What is wrong with that? At least he will then have a mandate (or not). Its quite simple isnt it?

    • buckyboy says:

      06:03pm | 21/06/11

      @ Alice C
      I’ll see your “Tony will not honour” and…..
      ....raise you a “there will be NO CARBON TAX under the gov’t I lead” plus a “East Timor Solution”.

    • jb says:

      06:05am | 21/06/11

      Gillard would be smart to take this issue to the people.
      If we say yes, she has the mandate and the party reform can begin should we say no she has a perfectly legitimate reason to dump the tax after all she will finally be listening to the people, Bob Brown would have to take democracy for the truth that it is and once again Gillard and Labor can get back on track and bed themselves down until the next election.
      Should all else fail bring in that high performer Stephen Smith, I’d vote for him.
      On a side bar though I did love how Rudd said he thought Gillard would lead the government up until the next election, that was gold….

    • TimB says:

      06:11am | 21/06/11

      I just have to point out (again) the lack of logic that’s gone into this line. And it’s something I fear a lot of people in the anti-Abbott brigade won’t get:

      “What else is there to conclude from his promise, restated yesterday, to rescind the carbon tax in office even if the people have backed it in?”

      If he does get into office, more than likely it would be *because* of the promise to rescind the tax. It’s the tax that’s caused most of Labor’s poll fall. Botched handling of the Malaysian solution and general all-round incompetence hasn’t helped either, but the carbon tax issue is the primary driver.

      Going by the polls alone, it’s hard to imagine a yes result to any plebiscite on the tax. But if it *did* eventuate it would also mean that the main reason for the current Liberal lead in the polls would be gone too. Honestly what is the likleyhood that Tony would then be elected on the basis of a no-carbon tax promise?

      Yes Tony was silly in saying he’d ignore an unfavourable result, but the possibility of a scenario arising in which he’d actually be in the *position* to ignore said result is remote in the extreme.

      The same cannot be said fior the government of course.

    • nossy says:

      08:56am | 21/06/11

      @TimB - your blogging reputation is now in tatters TimB - yesterday you acknowledged that Abbott may well ascend to the PMship simply by saying “NO” and you thought that was good ! Good god Timmy we now see what a feeble minded chappie you are! Shame TimB Shame !

    • TimB says:

      10:08am | 21/06/11

      NO to pointless taxes, NO to bad government.

      Looks ok in my book. Looks ok to a massive chunk of Australians too judging by the polls.

      Sometimes you just have to say NO Nossy.

      Imagine how much better off Julia would have been if she’d said NO to Bob Brown.

    • PTom says:

      01:09pm | 21/06/11

      @TimB
      Ok I say NO
      NO to the Direct Action waste.
      NO to the $11Billion it will cost
      NO to the cut in services to pay for it
      NO to denying the science
      NO to Tony Abbott
      NO to the Right Whinge Liberal Party

      Come on nossy that feels good.

    • ausspud says:

      01:43pm | 21/06/11

      nossy & ptom
      I got a better idea, lets do nothing because no matter what we do it wont make a difference.
      And please dont give me this “we must do our bit"crap.

    • TimB says:

      03:03pm | 21/06/11

      And that’s your right to say “NO” PTom. That’s the beauty of being able to have an opposing viewpoint. No-one expects you to just blindly agree with everything the other side says.

      Of course we’ll ask that you justify your viewpoint. We may question it, criticise it, or otherwise state why we think it’s wrong.  But what we *won’t* do is throw hissy fits like Badger and Nossy and Julia:

      ‘How dare you say NO?! How dare you have an opposing viewpoint? Stop saying NO! Agree with us right now!!!’ [/whine]

      Do you see how ridiculously childish that is?

    • The Badger says:

      03:51pm | 21/06/11

      meh

      Tony Abbott: NO
      Now what was the question?
      Tony Abbott: NO is my standard answer to everything.

      Why is that Tony Abbott?
      Tony Abbott: Well first let me just say NO. Actually it is because look how far just saying NO has gotten me. Life is sweet, all I have to do is repeat NO as the answer to everything. Dumbass voters love that NO shit. Why didn’t we think of it earlier?

      Hey Tony, got any real policies for change you believe in that we can have a look at?
      Tony Abbott: NO

      Got any ideas where you would take the nation if you were elected?
      Tony Abbott NO

      Yes, pretty ridiculous isn’t it?
      Hope you are enjoying opposition. Only a few more years to wait and we’ll see how well NO works out for you. In the meantime, why don’t you go run a poll on the Alan Jones talking parrot show or perhaps the Dolt blog. That should give you some comfort.

    • A says:

      04:17pm | 21/06/11

      Ahh Badger my favourite! You must actually be a Lib in Labor clothing who enjoys provoking Punch threads? Your bumbling posts really are too low rent to be believed as real. Keep up the entertainment though thank you.

    • Ben81 says:

      05:03pm | 21/06/11

      Try harder Badger, your already low standards are slipping.

    • Christian Real says:

      07:24am | 23/06/11

      Nossy
      TimB,has became accustomed to these one liners of Tony Abbott,and the fact that Abbott’s only word that he has ever learnt to say or utter was ‘No”

    • Christian Real says:

      07:36am | 23/06/11

      Nossy
      A Rhodes scholar and the only word in Abbott’s volcabulary is “No” !
      No wonder Abbott loked dumbstruck and lost for an answer when Mark Riley interviewed him.

    • Mahhrat says:

      06:21am | 21/06/11

      Do you have some kind - hell, any kind of - document to back this up?  I could just as easily swap Abbot for Gillard and say exactly the same thing - wouldn’t make it true though.

    • Peter says:

      06:24am | 21/06/11

      The prospect of Labor assassinating another sitting Prime Minister is fanciful, but not entirely impossible.
      After all, we saw the revolving-door Premiership in NSW, so nothing can be ruled out.
      The prospect that Labor may parachute Shorten or Combet into the Prime Ministership, may improve their popularity in the short term, but will ultimately spell their demise.
      I sincerely hope they are stupid enough to do this.

    • RyaN says:

      09:30am | 21/06/11

      @Peter: they will do as they did the previous time, wait for the election to be coming up and then spin that revolving door to cash in on the short term popularity. Worked before on the average Labor voter, it’ll work again.

    • Fran says:

      06:36am | 21/06/11

      If Gillard is so sure Australians will say YES to a Carbon Tax then what’s the problem? Well the problem is she knows Aussies don’t want a Carbon Tax.
      And if it is a YES then Gillard moves forward and Abbott is muted. The only people who don’t want a plebiscite are those scared of the results and that isn’t Abbott, it’s Gillard and her supporters.

    • Deena says:

      08:10am | 21/06/11

      Gillard knows she isn’t PM material. She lacks leadership, brains, morals, integrity and emotions. Abbott and Brown and possible Rudd have her in a three way and there is nothing she can do about it! She has biten off more than she can chew and now the old dog is ready to be put down politically, Australia is counting down the days before we boot out Federal Labor like they booted out NSW Labor!

    • JohnB says:

      08:32am | 21/06/11

      That puts it in to perspective!!!! Well said.

    • acotrel says:

      09:59am | 21/06/11

      @Fran Tony Abbott obviously wants a plebiscite on the price on carbon, before we’ve heard the full story.  So far we’ve only heard his version which has been based on cynical speculation. The current hysteria about the ‘carbon tax’ has been caused by his negative scaremongering.  When we know the extent of the whole deal, let’s talk then?

    • Mick Nqld says:

      10:41am | 21/06/11

      @acotrel. The problem with that is that once again labor is petrified to release any actual details or costings for fear of their position slipping any further. The less they tell the more tony has to work with. I voted for rudd in the last election, a mistake I wont repeat again, because I hated Workchoices. While tony may have some interesting views on some things I actually agree with most of his stances (not policies because he doesn’t really need to have them, yet). All he needs to do is keep the masses on his side and wait for labor to hang themselves. Hell even if he waited 2 years I think he would still win.

    • Mayday says:

      10:44am | 21/06/11

      Alcotrel @9.59

      We still waiting for the full story from Juliar and co.

    • GB says:

      01:01pm | 21/06/11

      @Acotrel. You have to be kidding right? You’re accusing Abbott of calling for a plebiscite before the details have been announced but are more than happy to give the Government and their “non-funded” agencies a free pass for bombarding our TV screens with “Say Yes”  adverts and an imminent $12 million “edcuation” campaign. Astonishing. Even for you.

    • Against the Man says:

      06:44am | 21/06/11

      Juliar Gilltard lied about the carbon tax during her election campaign and has had zero policy success. It is that simple on how hopeless she is. She is her own worse enemy and her supporters hate to admit that!

    • DaS Energy says:

      06:47am | 21/06/11

      The idependants enjoy too much being government members to walk away.

    • Sarah says:

      10:44am | 21/06/11

      Sadly that’s extremely APT. So much for democratic governing, huh.

    • Joan says:

      12:30pm | 21/06/11

      @ Sarah

      Damn that pesky democracy !

      You do understand the Westminster system of democracy, don’t you ?

    • William says:

      06:49am | 21/06/11

      The “issue” Mark is Gillard went to an election on the platform of “there will be no carbon tax under a Government I lead”. She mislead the public.
      Tony Abbott went to an election saying there would be “no” carbon tax but a Direct Action plan.
      If the vote was yes to Gillards Carbon Tax he still hasn’t lied to get elected. He would still go to an election without a Carbon Tax, true to his word and the people have the choice, which they were tricked on last time.

    • Plain Jane says:

      07:39am | 21/06/11

      There is nobody as cunning as the red-haired vixen Gillard who knifed peoples PM Rudd overnight and   then blatantly lied to the people of Australia with her sly No Carbon Tax lie.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      07:45pm | 21/06/11

      We the taxpayers will pay much more under Abbott’s so called direct action scheme. Joe Hockey admits its going to cost at least $11billion, treasury modeling suggests at least twice that amount. By proposing this farcical expedient, utterly un-supported by any market economist, Abbott has taken crony capitalism to the next level.

    • CARBONTAX says:

      07:20am | 21/06/11

      ANY GOVERNMENT OF THE DAY TONY OR GILLARDS
      IT IS REAL CLIMATE CHANGE IS REAL
      ITS NOT CARBON TAX WHAT ABOUT GST
      WHAT ABOUT OTHER LEVIES
      TONY STOP IT   WHAT DOES CLIMATE CHANGE MEANS FOR YOUR
      YOU CAN SEE THE CHANGE OUR KIDS CAN SEE THE CHANGE
      TONY DO YOU HAVE OTHER OPTION TELL US YOUR OTHER OPTION
      INSTEAD GOING ON AND ON ABOUT CARBAN TAX COST OF LIVING GOING UP UP AND UP
      GIVE US THE OPTION - GET TO THE POINT

    • VVS says:

      08:46am | 21/06/11

      Epic fail for your high school English teacher…

    • Zippy says:

      08:46am | 21/06/11

      The elites has spoken!

    • TimB says:

      08:53am | 21/06/11

      My eyes. The goggles do nothing.

      Your point of view is ridiculous enough as it is. Using this method of delivery does not help your argument in the slightest.

    • Max Redlands says:

      09:18am | 21/06/11

      @ CARBONTAX

      Wow.

    • Nick says:

      09:45am | 21/06/11

      CARBONTAX..you have an option..A carbon tax that even Flannery admits will do nothing for 1000 years and cause our cost of living to rise or a Direct Action plan which will see an instant benefit to Australia’s environment.
      I know which one I would choose.

    • Peter says:

      10:41am | 21/06/11

      CARBONTAX, you ask what about GST. Unlike Labor the coalition had the courage to take the GST to an election (1998), which they won. Why is it that Labor supporters ignore this fact?

      Are you able to provide any evidence that the introduction of a carbon (dioxide) tax in Australia will have any impact on climate change?

    • PTom says:

      10:46am | 21/06/11

      Nick,

      Tell me who will pay for the Direct Action? It will either be a new levy or cuts in spending.

      If a Carbon tax was to reduce emission by 5% will do nothing for 1000 year why would a Direct Action that reduce emission by 5% have instant benefit to Australia’s environment?

    • Jay-ded says:

      12:52pm | 21/06/11

      I thought we banned the use of capitals over 18 months ago….  Can we do it again.  PLEASE!

    • ausspud says:

      01:49pm | 21/06/11

      carbontax!
      And we will abort the next 20 babies to save the rest of the from overpopulation. idiot.

    • GarryT says:

      07:35am | 21/06/11

      Gillard campaigned on no carbon tax, you know the rest.
      Abbott also campaigned on no carbon tax. If the result was a yes by the voters for a carbon tax you can’t possibly expect him to then turn around and say I support a carbon tax. He will accept the verdict of the people, but he’s not obliged to support the tax. They will have their choice at the next election.
      This mess has been created by Gillards lie, it’s desperate to try and attack Abbott.
      This was Gillards stunt prior to the last election.

    • acotrel says:

      10:55am | 21/06/11

      @GarryT Yes Gillard should not have made such a dumb statement.  She should have looked into her crystal ball, and foreseen a hung parliament!

    • RyaN says:

      11:24am | 21/06/11

      @acotrel: not at all, she just should have negotiated her way into parliament while keeping her promises. But you and I both know that the lies from Gillard are not because of a hung parliament and started long before “There will be no carbon tax under a government I lead”. Let me elaborate, try these on for size when being questioned about challenging for the leadership.
      - “You may as well ask me, am I anticipating taking a trip to Mars”.
      - “If Stephen Spielberg called me and asked me to perform in a movie opposite Brad Pitt, would I do it?”
      - “I think there is more chance of me sailing around the world solo a dozen times”
      - “There is more chance of me becoming full forward for the dogs than there is of any change in the Labor party”
      Here you go, sound clips and everything starting at 1.41 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0VDQHxEZd0
      P.S. don’t miss the bogan dance at 3.32

      What we both know is that every time she opens her mouth, out comes another lie.

    • Bob says:

      03:19pm | 21/06/11

      Acrotel: A hung parliament was new. A hung senate was basically a certainty.

      One way or another, if she wanted the Greens to pass anything, she knew she was going to need to negotiate and she knew that they’d want this.

    • Christian Real says:

      07:49am | 23/06/11

      Garry T
      Julia Gillard said in an interview with the Australian on August 20th,2010(the day before the last Fedral election)  that “She is prepared to legislate a carbon price in her next term.” (which she is doing)
      The story; “Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise” was written by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan.
      Another story in “The Age” “Abbott dogged by old carbon comment”
      “Tony Abbott’s past as a climate change “weather vane” has come back to haunt him - again.”
      “The Opposition Leader has been shown spruiking a carbon tax in an old interview that was aired on Q & A on ABC Television yesterday.”
      “If you want to put a price on carbon,why not just do it with a simple tax?” Mr Abbott says.

    • Seano says:

      07:51am | 21/06/11

      Our pollies on both sides like to treat voters like they are stupid but they don’t get away with it as often as they thing. The minute Abbott said he would not stand behind any plebicite he gave the game away that this was yet another stunt.

      In the meantime Labor has two years to turn things around in the polls, does Abbott have two years of stunts?

    • TimB says:

      09:10am | 21/06/11

      “..he would not stand behind any plebicite…”

      Ok. Let’s pretend the plebicite goes forward. Now let’s pretend that despite the absolute beating Labor is taking in the polls on this issue, the Australian public have a collective brainsnap and vote “yes” to the tax.

      OK, Abbott says he won’t stand by the result…then what? Exactly what does he do then Seano? How does he go about translating his objection to the result into actual defiance of the people’s choice? What action will he take?

      Take your time on this one.

    • Lemon, lime and bitters shaken not stirred. says:

      09:22am | 21/06/11

      Seano - Don’t lump Tony Abbott into the same mix as Juliar Gillard.  He is where he is in the polls because he listened to the public and reflects the majority"s wishes.  We don’t want a tax on carbon dioxide.  Labor’s latest poll results reflect the downward spiral - I believe 28 at the moment.  Next week it will be 27 and the week after that it will be 26 etc.  What do you think they’ll be polling in two years time Seano?  At the current rate it should be negative 95 come election day.

    • Tom says:

      09:39am | 21/06/11

      I love the way Labor flunkies gibber on that “both sides” do it whenever their stinking party gets caught out.

      No Seano, “both sides” are not the same. Your side is rotten and as pig arrogant as it gets.

    • Seano says:

      10:15am | 21/06/11

      @TimB - What’s the point of asking the people if you’re only going to act on their wishes if you agree with them? Ridiculous. And here’s the thing, politicans are allowed to change their minds when they get it wrong. The whole thing is a stunt and one that’s pretty easy to see through as indicated by the way you have to “pretend” in your scenario and the way Abbott wont accept any result he doesn’t agree with.

      “Take your time on this one. “

      And you were trying so hard to be a grown up.

    • Seano says:

      10:19am | 21/06/11

      @Tom - actually champ it’s your side that’s been caught out trying to treat voters like they are stupid. Calling for a plebicite that you’d only stand behind if you agree with the result is fairly transparent.

      @Lemon - Loony comments and sock puppetry, how many sensible people do you think you’re convincing?

    • TimB says:

      11:30am | 21/06/11

      Exactly Seano. We have to “pretend”.

      You know why we have to pretend? Because the likelyhood of a “yes” result is extremely remote. You know it, I know it, & Gillard and Tony both know it.

      But again, you still haven’t answered the question, (perhaps you do need more time). So let’s try again:

      For the sake of your argument, let’s say that a “yes” result *did* happen. How would Abbott express the fact that he wouldn’t stand by the result? What do *you* think would Abbott then do then?

    • Deena says:

      11:52am | 21/06/11

      Seano you post pathetic comments and than post pathetic, childish replies. I’m still waiting for you to explain the carbon tax to us, remember when you said you weren’t confused by it?

      And you seriously think Labor will turn things around in the next 2 years when they haven’t been able to do a decent job governing since 2007?

      I feel sorry for you Seano and I feel sorry for the Labor party when they have immature people like you defending them.

    • Seano says:

      12:32pm | 21/06/11

      @Deena - Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yet another supposed long term reader first time poster leading out with empty, spite filled personal attacks. Heard it all before but your lunacy shines through. BTW the carbon tax is fairly easy to understand and it was quite clearly explained despite your loony sock puppetry.

      @TimB - of course you have to “pretend”, you don’t have the numbers, welcome to being in opposition

      I quite clearly answered your question but as you’re slow I’ll draw you a picture.

      If Abbott makes a point of demanding that we ask for the will of the people he should abide by their will regardless of whether he likes the result. Politicans are allowed to change their minds if they can reasonably explain why, such as when they ask for people to tell them what they want and then respond accordingly.

      It is hardly democracy in action when you want to run things on the basis of people power but only when the result suits you.

    • TimB says:

      01:04pm | 21/06/11

      “@TimB - of course you have to “pretend”, you don’t have the numbers, welcome to being in opposition”

      I’m pretending with regards to the result of the planned plebiscite itself., not the issue of whether parliament would decide to hold it in the first place. Try to keep up would you?

      And on the plebiscite reault the “no” result most definetly has the numbers. That’s why Julia is getting whipped in the polls and why Her and Bobbo Brown are shit scared of holding one. They know full well they’d lose.

      And as for answerinf my question, no you still haven’t answered it:

      “If Abbott makes a point of demanding that we ask for the will of the people he should abide by their will regardless of whether he likes the result.”

      Tha’s not an answer to my question. That’s telling me what you think he should do. You’re making a big issue of the fact that Tony *won’t* abide by the will of the people.

      So I ask a third time. Exactly what action would Tony take that would constitute NOT abiding by the will of the people?

      For example if Julia got a “no” result, her going ahead with the carbon tax anyway would be considered as ignoring the will of the people.

      What corresponding action would Tony take if there is a “yes” result?

    • Michael says:

      02:09pm | 21/06/11

      Ooh looks like seano has borrowed persephone’s big crayons…what fun, a picture for TimB.

      The LOLZ just keep coming in from the left.

    • Seano says:

      02:16pm | 21/06/11

      @TimB

      I am not interested in what you’re pretending about. Because…wait for it genius…you’re pretending. It’s irrelevant. It’s like saying if we had an election tomorrow Abbott would win, except we’re not having an election or a plebiscite tomorrow. So pretend all you like, wishful thinking is apparently important to you, I’d rather deal in realities than waste my time on pretence.

      Reality 1 - Abbott doesn’t have the numbers for a plebiscite.

      Reality 2 - It is two more years to the next election. If Labor and the independents believe in what they are doing then they will go to the full term and then stand on their record.

      Wishful thinking will not change reality 1 or reality 2.

      If Abbott is so very confident of the result or the worthwhile of a plebiscite why would he refuse to abide by the result of one he disagreed with? Because it’s stupid way to run a country and he knows it.

      Abbott doesn’t want to be in power having to make unpopular decisions and having those decisions second guessed by populist politics. If we’d held plebiscites and taken them seriously we never would have gone into Iraq, we never would have had a GST, we’d never get anything substantial done .

      It’s fairly transparent stunt to anyone with a brain.

      I will repeat for the umpteenth time. If Abbott demands and gets a plebiscite then he should be willing to stick by the result regardless of his current position. Otherwise don’t demand one. I can’t say it any more clearly or simply for you.

      There’s a difference between not agreeing with my answer and using semantics to pretend I haven’t answered your silly question. But then I guess we’ve established that you do like to pretend.

    • Seano says:

      02:18pm | 21/06/11

      @Michael - speaking of crayons - nice contributions - you really have advanced the cause of conservative politics - kudos.

    • TimB says:

      03:23pm | 21/06/11

      See why I told you to take your time in answering the question Seano?

      Here we are, six hours and three responses later and you still haven’t managed to do it. Instead you’ve made excuses about how it’s all pretend anyway so you don’t have to.

      Avoiding the hard questions, exactly as expected. Classic Seano.

      I’ll give you the answer that you’re clearly too scared to admit:

      What would Tony do if the plebiscite went ahead and resulted in a yes vote? *Nothing*. That’s what.

      Oh sure, you could make a case for him having a hissy fit and saying he still wants to block the tax. But can he? Can he turn around and go “Screw the people, I’m stopping the Carbon Tax anyway.”? No. He can’t. And you know he can’t, because as you helpfully pointed out before, he’s in opposition.. He can’t stop squat.

      The only other thing he can do is say “I’m still taking my anti-carbon tax policy to the next election anyway”. At which point, seeing as our theoretical plebiscite resolved in favour of a carbon tax, he’ll be most likely defeated.

      So, in conclusion *who cares* if Tony says he won’t be bound by the plebicite result? He can’t do anything about it anyway!

      Julia on the other hand is in a far different position. That’s why everyone on the pro-carbon tax side of the debate is completely against the plebiscite. You all know full damn well you’ll lose it.

      Then it’ll be Julia who looks bad for ramming the Carbon tax through in the face of widespread opposition from the Australian people.

    • Against the Man says:

      03:27pm | 21/06/11

      Oh boy looks like Seano the school teacher (yes folks that is his day job when he actually turns up to work) is getting ANOTHER old fashion beatdown right here on the Punch.

      How sad, I left this little boy alone for a while cause I felt sorry him, but it is sad watching everyone make a fool of him.

      Amazing isn’t it - BOTH he and TChong claim they don’t vote Labor, they vote for the policies and yet we see them serve their ALP masters like good little boys. Are they the same person?

      Sorry Seano old boy but how is Labor going to turn things around in 2 years? And why are you in the minority as per the polls? Lowest in ALP history!
      http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/jun/18/julia-gillard-most-unpopular-leader-australia

      Now watch folks, as Seano calls me names and runs and hides? Too funny!

      An old fashion beatdown indeed…....smile

    • Seano says:

      04:09pm | 21/06/11

      @AtM – Clearly I’m not interested in the personal attacks and lunacy you post under your sock puppets. What makes you think I’m going to bother reading your latest round of batshit crazy trolling?

      Seek help!

      @TimB - So you’ve just basically admitted that the whole thing is a pointless and expensive stunt.

      But of course your “logic” fails, if Gillard is bound by a plebiscite Abbott demands than surely so is Abbott if the Carbon Tax does not proceed for any reason. Of course Tony doesn’t have the courage to stand by his stunts because he knows they can backfire.

      Your childish semantics don’t stop this being anything more than the time wasting and empty negativity we’ve come to expect from the coalition under Tony Abbott. Populism is no way to run a country but it’s fairly effective way to run an opposition, he knows it and so does anyone with even half a brain, ask someone sensible.

    • Troll Attack in Progress says:

      04:18pm | 21/06/11

      My, my Seano
      How the trolls flock to you.
      The truth must hurt their little brains so they “pretend” to have the upper hand. I notice even the village idiot AtM has joined in.
      Don’t worry, they’ll head back under the bridge after they’ve had a feed.

    • fml says:

      04:28pm | 21/06/11

      TimB,

      If the results of the plebiscite is non-binding what is the point in having one? Wouldnt it just be an expensive popularity contest?

      At best, if TA wins it will keep him as opposition leader until the next election, at worst he will have to fight hard to keep his position. Im not really keen on using this as a TA ego boost, as much as i dont like the man, i think he should be judged on his job and not some popularity vote with no tangible outcome.

      Also am i right in thinking that voting will not be compulsory? So unless 100% of people vote, who ever wins its not going to be a true measure of what the public want.

    • TimB says:

      04:37pm | 21/06/11

      “So you’ve just basically admitted that the whole thing is a pointless and expensive stunt. “

      I did no such thing. Aren’t you the one always having a sook about people apparently putting words in your mouth? I see you aren’t bound by the restrictions you demand of others though.

      What this whole plebiscite idea was designed to do was hammer home the fact that Julia has no mandate for this tax, despite what she keeps dishonestly claiming. If she really believed she had a mandate, she’d put it to a vote.

      And if by some outside chance it *did* resolve in her favour and grant her said mandate…then it doesn’t matter if Tony refuses to stand by the result. He can’t do anything about it anyway!
      So you, and anyone else carping about Tony’s attitude are wasting your time on a non-issue.

      That’s the thing about plebiscites. They’re supposed to put the onus on the *government* to act a certain way, not oppositions who can’t act no matter what anyway.

    • Ben81 says:

      04:45pm | 21/06/11

      @fml “If the results of the plebiscite is non-binding what is the point in having one?”

      It will give people the chance to actually have a say, and don’t you think it would vindicate one leader and ruin the other?  The loser would ignore the result at their peril.

    • Seano says:

      05:01pm | 21/06/11

      @TimB - Yawn - Speaking of double standards. Where was the plebiscite on the GST, on the war in Iraq, on any number of major decisions taken by either party?

      Oh and yes you did admit it was a stunt.

      “What would Tony do if the plebiscite went ahead and resulted in a yes vote? *Nothing*. That’s what.”

      By your “standards” a yes vote would demand Abbott act on implementing a Carbon Tax if Labor fails to do so. But you don’t have any standards.

      @Ben81 - based on that logic we would not have a GST. No government would ever be able to take a tough decision and the whole process would be open to being exploited by cashed up special interest groups running scare campaigns.

      We vote for a government once ever three years to run the country. Nothing gets achieved by committee or populism.

    • fml says:

      05:12pm | 21/06/11

      Ben81,

      They get the chance to have their say every election.

      “and don’t you think it would vindicate one leader and ruin the other?  The loser would ignore the result at their peril.” I also dont want to spend money just so one politician can be vindicated, its a ridiculous means of proving a point. Especially on such an important issue which has obviously split society (No i dont think one side is in the majority) that neither side can come up with a convincing argument for or against.

      timB, 

      “And if by some outside chance it *did* resolve in her favour and grant her said mandate…then it doesn’t matter if Tony refuses to stand by the result. He can’t do anything about it anyway!
      So you, and anyone else carping about Tony’s attitude are wasting your time on a non-issue.”

      Its a massive issue, what do you think the liberals would say if Gillard spent 70 million on what is essentially an ego boost? or as Ben says, so the winner can be vindicated. Tony Abbott is acting like a scorned highschool student.

    • Ben81 says:

      05:32pm | 21/06/11

      fml “They get the chance to have their say every election.”
      About this carbon tax?  I don’t remember a chance to have a say about it at the last election, and isn’t it being pushed through before the next one?

      And you seem to think ‘vindication’ means an ego boost or something, that’s just dumb.  It would be the only actual chance for people to have a say on this.  Remember we were specifically and explicitly told during the last election campaign that this wouldn’t happen and it will now be put in place before the next one, so don’t give me this crap about getting a chance to have a say about it at an election and that anything else is all about ego.  I’m thankful Tony Abbott is holding Gillard to account over this.

    • Against the Man says:

      05:39pm | 21/06/11

      Sorry Troll under the bridge, you would have made an impressive point if you actually were in the majority. You and Seano the teacher not only represent minority Australian view but the UN and Senator Cameron (ALP) seem to be on my side with the view that the ALP is as crap as they get.

      But hey thanks for giving me an excuse to highlight this point to you and guess it must be sad to know that troll under the bridge + seano actually are idiots! Too funny and Seano seems to enjoying the beat down. Gilltard is the worst at that is now at international view point, but hey please attack me but don’t ever prove me wrong (well like you can with the current ALP performance).

      And the beatdown continues…...............

    • Seano says:

      05:56pm | 21/06/11

      @AtM - with so many sock puppets how could you ever fail to be in the majority loon?

      Seek help!

    • TimB says:

      05:59pm | 21/06/11

      “Yawn - Speaking of double standards. Where was the plebiscite on the GST, on the war in Iraq, on any number of major decisions taken by either party? “

      No double standards at all Seano. Completley different situation. Where was the declaration before the relevant election that there would be no War in Iraq or no GST?  Wasn’t any. Comparison fail. Try again.

      Julia said “No Carbon Tax” mere days before the election. She claimed that she was going to take her time about it and build a consenseus *first* ,so where’s the consensus Seano? The plebiscite is a GOLDEN opportunity for her to prove that she has it. Why isn’t she jumping at it? Because there *is* no consensus and she knows it, as do you.

      If Gillard has any respect for the voters, she should work on her carbon plan, fine-tune it, then explain it to the people. She can propose that it will come into force in July 2014, IF she wins the next election. Let the people decide then between her plan and Abbott’s.

      A 2 year delay won’t make any difference one way or the other, so why not do this honestly instead of doing everything she can to avoid letting the voters have a say.

      “Say Yes”....to a question Labor wont give us a chance to answer. Well done Gillard.


      “Oh and yes you did admit it was a stunt.”

      No I didn’t. It’s sad that you have to resort to outright lies.


      “By your “standards” a yes vote would demand Abbott act on implementing a Carbon Tax if Labor fails to do so. But you don’t have any standards.”

      HOW Seano?! How can he act? You said it yourself, he’s in opposition. Yet you think he should somehow act on the result of the plebiscite.

      Again for you because you clearly missed it the first time around:

      “That’s the thing about plebiscites. They’re supposed to put the onus on the *government* to act a certain way, not oppositions who can’t act no matter what anyway.

    • Seano says:

      08:31pm | 21/06/11

      Only a child would think that narrowing the parameters of the debate down on ridiculous premises is in some way a winning argument.

      Based on your flawed logic a government must explicitly state their every decision before going to an election or hold a costly plebiscite to determine a direction on every issue. And politicans would never be allowed to change their minds.

      It’s moronic and it’s a standard that you would never hold Abbott to.

      “Julia said “No Carbon Tax” mere days before the election.”

      So f*#king what? It’s an idiotic argument. Politicans should be allowed to change their minds when they get something wrong or when the situation changes. You’re convienently forgetting the difference between scripted and unscripted comments and lets not forget non-core promises.

      There was no consensus on GST either or work"choices” for that matter genius.

      ““That’s the thing about plebiscites. They’re supposed to put the onus on the *government* to act a certain way, not oppositions who can’t act no matter what anyway. “

      Ridiculous. We have a one seat minority government and Abbott could well be in government in a very short period of time quite possibly before Labor enacts its legislation (remember you started the lets pretend game).

      Are you seriously going to pretend that if Abbott demands a plebicited, gets a decision he doesn’t like that he can then ignore the result?

      What a childish view of the world.

    • TimB says:

      06:41am | 22/06/11

      Seano says:08:31pm | 21/06/11

      “Only a child would think that narrowing the parameters of the debate down on ridiculous premises is in some way a winning argument.

      Based on your flawed logic a government must explicitly state their every decision before going to an election or hold a costly plebiscite to determine a direction on every issue. And politicans would never be allowed to change their minds.

      It’s moronic and it’s a standard that you would never hold Abbott to.”

      Gee. Why bother holding elections at all then? Let’s just have a beauty contest and we can choose which one we like best. Why botherwith ridiculous things such as policies? I mean according to you it’s perfectly reasonable for (as Peter Garrett famously said) “just change everything” when in government.
      “Julia said “No Carbon Tax” mere days before the election.”

      I don’t expect plebiscites on every issue. Just massive economy shifting ones that we were lied to about right bfore the election. If you’re going to make those sort of massive change then the people have a right to decide on it.

      Personally I’d prefer an election. But Julia doesn’t want one of those. So she was offered the plebiscite as a compromise, but surprise surprise she doesn’t want that either. Democracy all the way Seano, 2 thumbs up.


      “So f*#king what? It’s an idiotic argument. Politicans should be allowed to change their minds when they get something wrong or when the situation changes. You’re convienently forgetting the difference between scripted and unscripted comments and lets not forget non-core promises.”

      She didn’t just magically change her mind. She lied. Period.
      And she officially reversed her decision as soon as she won office. And she did that because she knows full damn well she can’t win an election legitimately on the issue. Had she told the truth, she would have lost. I know it, you know it, the polls know it. It’s nice to see you don’t have an issue with subverting democracy that way

      “There was no consensus on GST either or work"choices” for that matter genius.”

      Enough people voted for Howard in the GST election for it to get up.  And that was when he had the balls to take it to an election. Constantly using the GST as a comparison is silly.
      As for Workchoices, you saw what happened there. Howard was beaten in 2007 because of it. Take note.

      ““That’s the thing about plebiscites. They’re supposed to put the onus on the *government* to act a certain way, not oppositions who can’t act no matter what anyway. “

      Ridiculous. We have a one seat minority government and Abbott could well be in government in a very short period of time quite possibly before Labor enacts its legislation (remember you started the lets pretend game).

      Are you seriously going to pretend that if Abbott demands a plebicited, gets a decision he doesn’t like that he can then ignore the result?

      What a childish view of the world. “


      Ah yes. The so-called “unelectable” Abbott can now apparently get government quite easily. Isn’t it funny how arguments change when they’re suddenly convenient to you?
      But in answer to your scenario, the first thing Abbott would do if the government changed like that would be to seek an election to get a proper majority. And he’d throw his “no-carbon tax” policy on the table. Election result trumps plebiscite. If the “yes” plebiscite result holds he’d be quickly thrown from office- your problem solved.

      But enough wild speculation about outside possibilities. Let’s end this:

      If there was a plebiscite, Abbott would win it. We all know it. If there was a chance in hell the Left would actually win the damn thing you wouldn’t all be complaining so loudly.

      The majority of people are against a carbon tax. Gillard won the election off the back of a lie. But you’re perfectly cool with that. (in your word’s “So f*#king what?”).

      Gillard has no respect for democracy. And neither do you. Yet again you’ve proved to the Punch what a complete joke you are.

    • Seano says:

      08:17am | 22/06/11

      “Why bother holding elections at all then?”

      This from someone who supports the party of scripted and unscripted comments and non-core promises. Childish.

      You know full well that parties propose their policies before the election and we judge them at the next election on their performance.

      Unlike you I am not stupid enough to think that a party has to stick to everything it says if it can explain reasonably why they changed their minds.

      Whilst it’s fair enough to criticise governments on their performance and particularly for changing tact if they can’t justify why it is infantile to pretend that governments should never be allowed to change tact. You would never hold Abbott to this childish standard.


      The GST is a fair comparison because no election is decided on a single issue, another of your child like arguments. A plebiscite on the issue alone would have certainly been against it. We never would have had a GST.

      You’re not interested in plebiscites on major issues you’re interested in stunts. You cannot run a country on an issue by issue populist basis and if you don’t know that you’re a moron. You would never expect an Abbott government to be run on such a basis and neither would I even though I would vote against any government led by Abbott.

      “Howard was beaten in 2007 because of it. Take note.”

      Work"choices” adversely affected the pay and conditions of the Australian workers and they reacted accordingly. When the Carbon Tax is barely a blip on the radar and the sky doesn’t fall in what will you lot be ranting about then?
      “Ah yes. The so-called “unelectable” Abbott can now apparently get government quite easily. Isn’t it funny how arguments change when they’re suddenly convenient to you? “

      It’s like talking to a two year old. You do realise that times change don’t you genius? Yes Abbott was unelectable. Unfortunately now Labor have knifed a sitting PM and changed the game. That doesn’t mean that Abbott is a fit, decent person to lead this country he’s not, he still is a nasty, devise, policy vacuum with a history of poor delivery in office.  I haven’t made that “unelectable” comment since the last election when guess what moron he lost the unlosable election because he’s “unelectable”. At this stage who know what’s going to happen in two years time? I’m not moronic enough to be looking at the polls now and thinking that Abbott is home and hosed.

      “The majority of people are against a carbon tax.”

      The majority of people where against the GST.

      “Gillard won the election off the back of a lie.”

      Politicians are allowed to change their minds if they can reasonably justify their positions. And we judge their performance at elections.

      “But you’re perfectly cool with that. (in your word’s “So f*#king what?”).

      You really are the dullest of the dull when it comes to right wing ranters. No I am not “perfectly cool” with that, your childish stupidity isn’t an argument. We elect a government and we judge their performance at the next election, if I don’t like that a government changes tact and they reasons they give for that I vote accordingly, some of us actually look at the other parties on the ballot paper.
      That chump is democracy. It’s not perfect but that’s the system we’ve got. What you’re childishly saying is every major decision has to be put to a populist vote but only because you know at the moment you have the numbers. Given the reverse situation you would not be defending the same childish position. That is what makes me better than you; if Labor in opposition ever called for a plebiscite to score political points (other than a chuckle at Abbott getting some of his own medicine) I would be openly critical because populism is no way to run a country. It’s an expensive stunt.

      “Gillard has no respect for democracy. And neither do you.”

      No I have no respect for childish political stunts or the morons who think they’re a good idea whilst it suits the political ends of the one party that they support.

      ” Yet again you’ve proved to the Punch what a complete joke you are. “

      Pretend what you like, that’s what you’re good at. Your opinion is worthless. You’re irrelevant.

    • Christian Real says:

      06:31am | 23/06/11

      Tom
      You have described Tony Abbott perfectly, rotten and pig arrogant,but I would have added the words, opportunist,lying and deceitful.
      And as most of these statemants made by Tony Abbott lately are spoken statements, then they certainly can’t be “The Gospel Truth.”
      Tony Abbott in his own words on ABC’s 7.30 Report, said “Don’t believe everything I say”, and didn’t he also say,  “The only Statements that need to be taken absolutely as gospel truth are those carefully prepared,scripted remarks.”

    • James In Footscray says:

      08:02am | 21/06/11

      Looking forward to the third article in a row on The Punch condemning Abbott for his cynical stunt.

    • Rossco says:

      09:11am | 21/06/11

      yes, they seem to love propagating the myth that somehow the opposition is the problem not the Green Coalition.

    • Richard says:

      10:32am | 21/06/11

      Yep, Tory Shepherd, Mark Kenny, and (soon to be published) Mal Farr. The Holy Trinity. Oh how empty my life would be without these three telling me how to think every day when I read the punch.

    • Holly says:

      08:16am | 21/06/11

      This is all just hearsay rubbish Mark.  Disappointing since you are one ofthe better Punch writers. Still I suppose you had an article deadline to complete.

    • nihonin says:

      09:02am | 21/06/11

      Just as you have to meet you forum reply quota’s as well.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      11:03am | 21/06/11

      What Holly really means is that you are “one of the better writers” when she agrees with you. And when she doesn’t? You don’t know what you’re talking about.

    • JohnB says:

      08:20am | 21/06/11

      I knew he’d outsmart the dummies.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      08:24am | 21/06/11

      Mark, it’s easy to see that you’re a Gillard suporter lol
      you wrote “even if the people have backed it in”
      haven’t you been reading ALL of the polls, most Australians DON’T want the carbon tax

    • bored says:

      08:28am | 21/06/11

      “While another change of PM would almost certainly backfire on Labor, resulting in the independents walking away, voters branding them a rabble, or even a Labor MP or two quitting if it re-installed Kevin Rudd, it is telling that the Liberals regard it is a live possibility.”

      Poor analysis. Why would the independents commit electoral suicide with Labor and give up their power? Why would a Labor pollie give up the next 2 years of pay? Won’t happen. Labor could have 10 leaders before the next election and Rob and Tony and Adam would sit there, say something like this is definitely the last leadership change we will agree to and life would roll on.

    • DJ says:

      08:42am | 21/06/11

      Please, Please, Please .... faction leaders give Gillard the chop and install that sycophant Shorten. He will take no less than a few months to offend everyone including the Labor puppets Windsor and Oakeshott and so give us a chance to vote the lot out.

    • Don of Adel says:

      08:52am | 21/06/11

      I find it amusing that the anti Abbott brigade are putting him down for wanting to take the Carbon Tax issue to the Australian People (some claiming it is not settled yet so how can he do it), yet had no qualms about Labor/Greens via their support base (Unions/GetUp etc) running television ads and protest meetings urging Australians to vote yes for this tax before it is supposedly even settled.

    • TT says:

      09:46am | 21/06/11

      It’s called hypocrisy…

    • Peppa says:

      09:00am | 21/06/11

      So it’s a no deal for the plebiscite.
      First the public is tricked and lied to about a carbon tax, now they are being muzzled.
      Welcome to Gillards dictatorship.

    • Bella says:

      10:07am | 21/06/11

      This will only make things worse for Gillard. Her protectors, who lets remember are representing a very small percentage of the voting public have the final say once more and deify the wishes of the majority.
      This minority Government is not democracy.

    • what the says:

      02:53pm | 21/06/11

      @Bella, one of the most idiotic statements I’ve seen.  You do realise that if they independants sides with the Liberals we’d have a Coalition minority government dont you?  According to Liberals its only democratic if their party gets in, talk about born to rule mentality.

    • nossy says:

      09:00am | 21/06/11

      STOP PRESS: Senator Fielding has just announced he will NOT be supporting “Toxic Tonys” bill for a plebicite on the Carbon tax - the plebicite is now dead and ANOTHER loss recorded for the Great Loser Tony The One Trick Pony !  hahhaahahah Oh how sweet it is !

    • Deena says:

      09:42am | 21/06/11

      nossy it looks like Gillard’s Malaysian solution is dead, the carbon tax will ensure the ALP’s loss at the next election and Gillard has the lowest poll numbers on record. I guess when you look at it that way, it really is sweet smile

    • WD40 says:

      09:42am | 21/06/11

      It is naive to believe that Abbott actually wanted a plebescite… even he himself admitted he wouldn’t be bound by the outcome.

      Abbott got exactly what he was after. Now he can say not only that Gillard doesn’t listen to the people, she doesn’t want to even hear from them by giving them a voice.

      This plebescite issue is a damn good political move by Tony. He basically couldn’t lose regardless of how it turned out…

    • Peter says:

      10:01am | 21/06/11

      nossy..I always find your posts quite amusing but I can’t help feeling a little sorry for you.It must be so difficult in these circumstances to see your beloved Labor Party being kicked and trodden on by the majority of Australian voters whilst watching the rise of Tony Abbot and the Liberal party with every new poll.Only two more years"how sweet it is”

    • AAAdam says:

      11:37am | 21/06/11

      “ANOTHER loss recorded for the Great Loser Tony The One Trick Pony”

      Sadly Nossy, I think a more accurate statement would have been “ANOTHER loss recorded for the Great Loser - The Australian People”. Our opinions and views have been ignored once again. Personally, I think both parties should have more plebiscites and referendums on a wider range of issues. Otherwise, there is no point in sending hundred of thousands of soldiers to early graves fighting for democractic rights we won’t exercise because they are “too expensive”. And what makes the government think they can tell Aussies plebiscites are too expensive when it is Aussies own money being spent is beyond me. Or the old “we’ve got better things to spend money on”....yeah cause democractic rights and listening to the public is such a waste of money these days (sarcasm).

    • what the says:

      02:29pm | 21/06/11

      WD40, only rusted on Libs would think Abbott’s stunt is a good idea, so it’s not going to garner any more support.  If he hadn’t of announced that he’d act despite the outcome he may have been able to increase the Liberals standings but he’s gone an put his foot in it yet again.  So far he’s believe in climate change, then hasn’t, then has, then hasn’t, said a tax is a good solution in 2009 to address carbon, renigged on a bi-partisan ETS, gospel truth, etc etc.  Everytime he has the possibility of advancing the party, he goes and stuffs it up and looks like a power hungry egomaniac

    • Ian1 says:

      09:01am | 21/06/11

      Considering the commitment given by the Coalition to rescind the Carbon Tax when in Government, shouldn’t we invest the $80 million to work out now just how likely it is that the whole thing will just be a pointless and expensive exercise to implement?  Think of the enormous waste of taxpayer money for establishing these bureaucracies and frameworks, when it is almost certain that in 2013 (or whenever the bi-election for that Labor backbencher who used union funds on prostitutes and for election campaigning without declaring it to the AEC) that Labor and the Green “New paradigm” with independents who are anything but independent is gone.  I think a stitch in time saves nine, let us vote on it and get back to the real issues affecting us all - no hospital beds, ambulance ramping, soaring cost of living, crime, disparate sentencing for sex crimes and so on.

    • CJ Morgan says:

      09:21am | 21/06/11

      Personally, I think it’s a cunning stunt, unlike Tony.

    • Jay-ded says:

      01:01pm | 21/06/11

      Ha.  I read it the otherway round -  stunning ......  my bad.

    • Malleeringneck says:

      10:41am | 21/06/11

      I cannot see why everyone complains about Abbott.
      He is the opposition leader and is supposed to oppose the Government.
      If Labor puts up a good policy he could support it but they have not put up one noteworthy policy since Rudd came into power.
      Gillard will lead till the next election because Labor has no one left who looks credible on television.
      Swan couldn’t lead a duck to water.
      Combet has destroyed his chances by spruiking the carbon tax even though it looked like he was suffering from who knows what as he did it.
      Shorten has remained in the background and is only heard when something exceptionally safe is to be announced, but then maybe only Bryce will vote for him.
      The independants will not force an election because they are gone.
      So Abbott can only oppose the issues that the Labor party raise and the Carbon Tax is the major issue.

    • Pete says:

      10:44am | 21/06/11

      Abbott has proven that he is what it takes to adequately fill budgie smugglers.  Is No his answer to everything? when was the last policy released by the liberal party and what was it?  I cannot remember.  Where are the alternatives?  He doesnt have any, or at least he has never divulged any to us.  I cannot contemplate voting for a party bereft of alternative policies.

    • GB says:

      11:20am | 21/06/11

      Firstly Pete, nice try at appearing impartial. Secondly, they are in opposition and we’re 2 years out from an election so their policies aren’t really a telling factor at the moment are they. But seeing as you asked, here you go.
      http://liberal.org.au/
      Just click on the relevant heading for all you need to know. There’s plenty of choice. Happy to be of service.

    • Sarah says:

      10:51am | 21/06/11

      Wowsers. No Persephone comments as yet.. She’s been really quiet of late??? Can’t say I miss it.

    • Max Redlands says:

      11:43am | 21/06/11

      Thinking the same thing myself.

      I hope she’s OK. i’m concerned all this is having a deleterious effect on her mental and physical health.

      “tho like you I don’t really miss those acres and acres of…er…stuff.

    • RyaN says:

      04:58pm | 21/06/11

      @Sarah: Rudd is in town, she has to watch Juliar’s back at all times.

    • Robert S McCormick says:

      10:52am | 21/06/11

      Far too clever for his own good but he can’t see it!
      I am one of those dreadful “Swinging Voters” I loathe both Gillard & Abbott & for different reasons.
      This Plebiscite of Abbott’s is the greatest scam. con-job imagineable.
      The results are not binding on any Government. A Referendum is.
      We can guarantee that if it fails & Gillard, if she’s still around, persists with her Carbon Tax, attack-dog (Woof-Woof) Abbott will go on the offensive &, oh-so-self-righteously, bark on about how she “Defied the wishes of the PEOPLE!”
      If if passes & Abbott has taken over he will, in truly cynical political style, simply refuse to bring on the tax claiming that “Plebiscites are not binding on any government, only Referenda are”
      Why did he only call for a Plebiscite? Why not for a Full Referendum?
      Back in the Menzies era, when most voters were obedient, apathetic morons, Ming might, indeed would have got away with this sort of trickery.
      The Menzies era is long-since past. Today’s voters are more savvy & much less apathetic. They can see, smell & hear a con-job within seconds of it being announced.
      With apologies to all Mothers…BUT…
      This is the Mother of All Con Jobs.
      We don’t need a Plebiscite or a Referendum.
      We do need a new Federal Election.
      Oh! Wait a sec, hush your mouth child & wash it out with soap!
      What will we be doing? Won’t we be simply trading one bunch of incompetent morons for another?
      Ps. That includes all the so-called Independents & Greens.

    • Anubis says:

      04:05pm | 21/06/11

      Under the Constitution we can only have a referendum for changes to the Constitution. For non-Constitutional changes the only option for putting it the people is a non-binding plebiscite. Australia is lagging behind countries like New Zealand and Canada that have the capability to conduct Citizen Initiated Referenda on matters of major impact, such as this one.

      The rsult of a Plebiscite, although non-binding would probably see action by the incumbent Government if the result was sufficiently convincing, no Opposition is bound by a Plebiscite held while they are in Opposition. If they are opposed to the results of a Plebiscite they can then take their opposition to the result to the next poll and campaign on that.

      And yes to your final point - none of the representative parties currently in elected positions are worth spitting on. Shame we can’t sack the bloody lot of them (banning them from public office in the process) and start afresh.

    • Dash says:

      05:21pm | 21/06/11

      Robert, “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” sounds like the mother of all con jobs to me!

      You can add that to the following:
      “I fully support PM Rudd”
      Grocerychoice
      fuelwatch
      Cheaper Better childcare
      More affordable housing
      260 childcare centres
      root and branch tax reform
      A coast guard
      No onshore detention centres
      The East Timor Solution
      need I list more?

      If Gillard wont call an election, and we can’t have a referendum, how are the people of Australia going to be given the opportunity to have their say on this tax??? Any ideas, since you’ve ruled out a plebiscite??

      Abbott is making a point, and that point is that the people of Australia have not had the right to vote on this policy which is going to significantly impact our economy, household budgets and peoples jobs! That is a reasonable point to make. He’s called for an election and Gillard has said no!

      Comparing the Menzies era to today is so stupid, it’s not funny!

      And I don’t think you can compare the LNP to this pack of ALP mornons! Their performance in government speaks for itself. Give me the Howard Costello LNP government any day over this ALP rabble!

    • Al says:

      11:01am | 21/06/11

      Of course it is nothing more than a stunt. Will Gillard go? Absolutely not. i can’t think of a single Labor MP who wouldline up for the job now.
      Chances are they will bang through this year, once the Greens come into the senate majority - push through the difficult policies blocked by the current senate and then get on with electioneering.
      I reckon the best you can hope for re Gillard’s removal would be 2012, after the dirty work has been done.
      This pleb stunt is just a noise before the balance of power changes.
      More interestingly, the Coaltion may be hoping that a Labor MP may be on the verge of leavign their seat.

    • Knemon says:

      11:18am | 21/06/11

      Anyone who believes Abbott will rescind the carbon tax if he is elected PM is a bigger moron than Abbott himself. If this tax is in anyway revenue positive for the government then forget any ideas about rescindment.

    • Ian1 says:

      12:36pm | 21/06/11

      Unlike the green left weekly/socialist alliance Labor way of breaking promises, I believe Abbott would rescind the Carbon Tax.  Knemon, please explain to me why you think me a moron.
      (Interestingly, it was the Labor party in Qld which removed the criminality for telling lies in Parliament).

    • Michael says:

      02:31pm | 21/06/11

      The real Michael is a conservative voter, don’t be fooled by this troll.

    • Dash says:

      05:37pm | 21/06/11

      Some people believed the ALP would deliver grocery choice, fuelwatch, 260 childcare centres, root and branch tax reform, a coast guard, the East Timor Solution, more affordable housing and cheaper better childcare. I guess their looking like pretty big morons now eh Knemon!

      The reason we are getting a carbon tax is because of the Greens. The people you voted for! The people who represent 12% of the voting population and have but one sitting member in the lower house of our parlianment. And because they cut a deal with Gillard to put her into power. If it wasn’t for the greens, we wouldn’t have to risk our economy and put people out of jobs for nil net gain to the environment!

    • Michael says:

      06:10pm | 21/06/11

      @ Michael

      Real? Fooled?

      Who would have ever thought that some right winger’s sense of entitlement would even extend to the exclusive use of names?

      Although my mother passed away in 1977, my father’s still alive, so I’ll have to let him know.

    • TimB says:

      07:07pm | 21/06/11

      @ the Real Michael, don’t worry no-one is fooled.

      Fake Michael is clearly the entity known as AASQ. He has a nasty habit of stealing names from other posters and pretending to be legit. Except I can spot him/she/it a mile off.

      It’s sad.

    • Michael says:

      09:20pm | 21/06/11

      @ TimB

      Legit? Another one. QED

    • TimB says:

      06:20am | 22/06/11

      AASQ sod off. I also know that you’re the “Mark” up there that responded to Erick. You stick out like a sore thumb.

      Rosie, Joan, Michael, Mark…What’s the matter? Have you lost all credibility posting under your own screenname? You feel the need to appropriate “conservative” monikers in order to garner any sort of legitimacy for your posts?

      Won’t work. It doesn’t matter what name you post under. You will always be a tool.

    • Michael says:

      09:24am | 22/06/11

      @ TimB

      So you think only “conservative” comments are “legitimate”? That does explain a lot.

      Who would have ever thought that some right winger’s sense of entitlement would also even extend to the exclusive use of names?

    • Michael says:

      11:21am | 21/06/11

      Get it together, Tony !

      When you propose wasting many millions of our tax dollars on stunts, they’re supposed to actually serve some purpose, and you’re not supposed to admit they’re a total waste of our time and money from the outset.

    • GB says:

      12:51pm | 21/06/11

      As opposed to spending $12 million on a scheme that isn’t even finaised yet Michael? Hypocrite much?

    • Michael says:

      01:25pm | 21/06/11

      @ GB

      That paltry amount won’t even be spent until the information is finalised.

      Please try to keep up, and then you won’t make such a fool of yourself.

      Speaking of hypocrisy; how many hundreds of millions did Howard spend flogging Workchoices ?

    • GB says:

      01:56pm | 21/06/11

      Are you seriously going down the wasted money route Michael?
      And yet again, the typical ALP defence is to bring up Howard. Newsflash Mick, he got ousted in 2007. Should I go digging through the advertising spend throughout the Keating & Hawke eras? What the hell, may as well see what Chifley got up to while I’m at it.

    • Michael says:

      02:38pm | 21/06/11

      @ GB

      Do you really not get it, or are you just hypocritically pretending ?

      The mistake Abbott made was to admit from the outset that his stunt would have been a total waste of our time, and many millions of our tax dollars.

    • GB says:

      05:23pm | 21/06/11

      I get it perfectly well Michael. Have you ever stopped for a second to think Abbott knew full well this proposal would never get over the line but used it as further ammunition to undermine Gillard’s position in the eye of the public, knowing full well she and the independents would never agree to it. Even if she had supported it, and leaving aside political leanings and rights and wrongs of the Tax, the public at this point in time, would have resoundingly voted no in my opinion. His only risk was if by some miracle the plebiscite returned a yes vote. Pretty smart politicking if you ask me.

    • Michael says:

      06:28pm | 21/06/11

      @ GB

      In that case I would never ask you.

      By admitting that he wouldn’t listen to the result of his stunt if it didn’t go his way, all he’s done is confirm the fact that he’s willing to waste our time, and many millions of our tax dollars, and to ignore the will of the Australian public if it doesn’t agree with him. Great own goal, Tony.

    • GB says:

      07:29pm | 21/06/11

      How is it a waste of taxpayer dollars and time if he, you, I and everybody else with half a brain knows it will never get across the line? Not sure I’m following your logic. Own goal? hardly. And please spare me the “will of the Australian public” bullshit Michael. You’re insulting my intelligence now. He completely outmanoeuvred her and the only people who can’t see it are rusted on ALP hacks like yourself.

    • Michael says:

      09:31pm | 21/06/11

      @ GB

      How? Abbott’s the one who admitted that he wouldn’t listen to the will of the Australian public if the result didn’t go his way, not me, so he’d be the only one insulting your intelligence, if you had any.

    • Matt says:

      11:16pm | 21/06/11

      ”  Michael says:

        09:31pm | 21/06/11

        @ GB

        How? Abbott’s the one who admitted that he wouldn’t listen to the will of the Australian public if the result didn’t go his way, not me, so he’d be the only one insulting your intelligence, if you had any.”

      Mind linking to where Abbott said any such thing?

      Mind demonstrating how Gillard is listening to the will of the people by implementing the carbon tax?

    • CA says:

      11:34am | 21/06/11

      What I can’t believe in this whole debate is that people are actually buying the current mainstream media spin and blatant lies that:
      a) Abbott is performing well as an opposition leader
      b) A plebiscite on carbon tax is a possibility
      c) The polls are completely accurate
      d) Everyone hates Gillard
      e) Gillard won’t remain PM for the remainder of this term
      f) We are all worse off under Labor
      All absolute crap. Everyone has very short memories of Australian politics. The current situation reminds me of when Howard was almost voted out after his first term of government. It also reminds me of ‘never ever GST’. Howard either hid the fact that he was bringing it in or changed his mind. Just like now with Gillard and the carbon tax. At least this time we haven’t paid royalties to some aged rockstar to try to convince ourselves that a policy we didn’t necessarily want is actually a good thing (see ‘Break Down the Walls’ tax system ads). Everyone just accepted the GST in the end and I suspect the carbon tax may result in a similar scenario.

    • Jackie says:

      11:50am | 21/06/11

      LOL - The people trusted Howard and the Libs, and they were right in doing so.
      But Gillard and her Government…...................? Check the record of the last 4 years CA.

    • CA says:

      12:30pm | 21/06/11

      Wow, such a short memory you must have Jackie. Howard and the Libs were never trustworthy. How about the children overboard scandal? Iraq having WMDs? The decline of Medicare? Non core promises???Howard lied his way through his time as PM and Abbott was right there with him. I wish the Costello camp had got the numbers to oust him.

    • GB says:

      12:36pm | 21/06/11

      So which ALP branch or Union do you belong to CA? Media spin? Please.

    • CA says:

      12:57pm | 21/06/11

      None. I would have voted for Turnbull but that choice was taken away from me. Hmm that sounds rather familiar doesn’t it?

    • GB says:

      01:17pm | 21/06/11

      Yeah right. Don’t make me laugh. We’ve all seen your type on here a thousand times before . Pretend to be a swinging voter, attack Abbott, maybe throw in aJohn Howard snipe or two (like they’re somehow relevant), all the while giving this band of incompetent clowns masquerading as a Government a free pass. And then for that added touch of “impartiality” you pull out the old “I’d have voted for Turnbull” ace up the sleeve. Try a new schtick CA, it’s been done to death already.

    • CA says:

      01:42pm | 21/06/11

      My type?!! As opposed to the usual commenters that post on this site who follow the mantra of ‘I’m going to repeat the same thing ad naseum and hope that because it’s written down people will believe it’. It’s unfortunate that different viewpoints are not valued here.

    • BobM says:

      03:20pm | 21/06/11

      CA go away. Go to The Drum on ‘our’ ABC’s website. I’m sure you’ll be happier there.

    • Dash says:

      05:08pm | 21/06/11

      @CA, Howard had the balls to take the GST to an election. He may have changed his mind, but he didn’t mislead the Australian people and then do the opposite. Gillard deliberately lied about her intentions and doesn’t have the guts to do the right thing by the Australian people! If you think that’s the same, you are a serious fool!

      Also, the GST is not a carbon tax! There is an input tax credit regime that goes along with the GST, things are only taxed once. That is not the same for the carbon tax which is a cumulative tax. It’s a disaster!

      Also, the compensation scheme touted by the ALP means the tax is not about the environment but more about wealth redistribution. It means it is not a market mechinism because the ALP will decide who pays for it.

      It’s time Labor people started to think for themselves rather than swallow the crap and propaganda that comes out of Gillard and the greens mouth!

      If they really cared about the environment, stop selling coal in increasing quantities to China and debate nuclear energy! But of course then there would be no excuse for a tax!

    • nossy says:

      12:06pm | 21/06/11

      Senator Fielding has just said on ABC24 “Why should we waste $70million of Taxpayers money on a CHEAP political stunt that is not binding just because Abbott has a problem” ? Wise man that Steve Fielding!  Sttttrrrriiiikkkkeeee 3 your out Tones old fella !

    • Tony of Poorakistan says:

      12:16pm | 21/06/11

      What about that lying redheaded bitch spending $12 million explaining her way around promising one thing and delivering another, eh?

    • Vincent says:

      12:20pm | 21/06/11

      Asking voters who were cheated at the last election on this issue their opinion is a wast of money? Because Abbott has a problem? The people have a problem with Gillards lie’s.
      And this is coming from a guy who opposes the carbon tax, go figure?

    • Jane says:

      12:41pm | 21/06/11

      Strange thing for Fielding to say, considering he also has a problem with Gillards Carbon Tax.

    • Jay-ded says:

      01:00pm | 21/06/11

      We should be allowed the vote.  70 million?  That’s nothing compared to the waste the Gillard Government has committed.  It is our right to demand a vote.  Tony is just voicing what we’ve all been saying.

    • Dr P says:

      01:05pm | 21/06/11

      Nossy you are pretty ignorant if you truly believe Abbott wanted a plebescite.

      All he wanted was for Gillard to oppose one - which she predictably did - which was another goal kicked for the Libs.

      Smart, strategic move from him.

      I thought you would have been smart enough to see the big picture. It’s not rocket science. Lesson over.

    • Lance says:

      01:28pm | 21/06/11

      Abbott wins again. He has now proved this Government have no intention or interest in listening to the people of Australia. Gillard just keeps giving Abbott free kicks all over the shop. What a dumb ass she is.

    • Michael says:

      01:54pm | 21/06/11

      @ Lance

      Nice own goal, Lance.

      It was Abbott who said he wouldn’t listen to the result if it didn’t go his way, not the Prime Minister.

    • Angus says:

      02:30pm | 21/06/11

      Hey Michael - Abbott has said he does not support a Carbon Tax.
      It was Gillard who mislead voters at the election not Abbott. He doesn’t have to agree with a Carbon Tax even if the electorate voted yes to it with a plebiscite. They all know where Abbott stands regarding the Tax and always have. They were mislead by Gillard (whether intentionally or not) and it affected the election result. That is why there should be a plebiscite in fairness to the electorate.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      08:25pm | 21/06/11

      @Angus Abbott has stated his opposition to a carbon tax true enough but he is quite willing to spend >$11billion of our money in paying polluters not to pollute. And this despite the fact that he considers the science behind climate change “crap”.Do you really think this is going to hold up next election?

    • Jad says:

      12:26pm | 21/06/11

      Color me both shocked and pleased with Fielding telling it how it is, I would have bet money he would go along with this as a last FU to the left-wingers.

    • Michael says:

      12:54pm | 21/06/11

      @ Jad

      Fair point, but even he couldn’t spin the fact that this farcical stunt would have been a total waste of our time, and many millions of our tax dollars, after Abbott himself admitted it.

    • CJ Morgan says:

      02:38pm | 21/06/11

      He’s getting ready to answer to his God, once he leaves the Senate.

    • Dave says:

      12:33pm | 21/06/11

      These MP’s are not gods that judge and decide what the whole of Australia wants and needs are, we as the electrate should decide what happens here, Labor and Liberal, Greens and these Idiots Parites, only are thinking for them selves , and been paid off by big business, and not what the effects of this major tax will do on the cost of living to all of Australians, as we are already the third highest in the world for the cost of living and these MPS only want to bump it up a lot more, they should be trying to convince USA, India, China, Russia, Europe, all these countries will not endorse Keyoto Why, because they care about their own people, but here we pay these donkeys life pensions for what?? to deem us the 3rd highest in the cost of living in the whole world already, in NSW we will be slugged 18% more on our power from July 2011,this does not include carbon tax, in Vic its the water, the list is just off the roof.. Oh yes what about finalizing the mining tax too, its been a year, another of Labors cover ups, and Liberals and these others are saying nothing at all, why??? these parties are been paid off covertly and who will suffer???? we will… We pay out a further $200 million dollars to other country whilst we have a major nose bleed, why?? cant see any other country doing anything, we are only 22 million people… I would say by the end of this year or mid next year we will be the worlds most dearest country, why???

    • CA says:

      01:05pm | 21/06/11

      Actually we have the third LOWEST cost of living in the major developed world, behind only USA and New Zealand. Get your facts straight. Oh that’s right, commenting here doesn’t require facts. Just rants and lies.

    • Paula says:

      12:44pm | 21/06/11

      What a joke of an article. I think Australians have seriously had an absolute gutful of “there will be no carbon tax” Ju-liar and her fabian society agenda, and the leftist media that continue to defend the indefensible. We have had enough of the “all spin, no substance” and lies, lies and more lies.. We don’t give a rats about the future careers of Ju-liar, Windbag, Krudd, Garrett, Milne, Brown or Oakshit and would be quite pleased to see them all go down together. We used to be a prosperous country, admired worldwide - now we are a laughing stock and the 14th most indebted country in the world. We want our country back, we want our national financial prosperity back,  and we want leaders whom are community minded and have integrity. Integrity not the liars currently in place.

    • Andrew says:

      04:11pm | 21/06/11

      When did our political discussions start to sound like a 12 year old school yard fight. What stupid immature nicknames. Funny thing is when i see these i get the feeling you actually think your clever by saying them.

      We still are a prosperous country. A lot more than others who are better known. We are actually in a pretty good economic state at the moment. Go to Greece if you want to see how bad things can get.

      I will agree with you about integrity, however it is missing on all sides as is the “all spin, no substance”. To say otherwise would be a very partisan view.

    • Richard says:

      04:46pm | 21/06/11

      Andrew you Clown!! How did Greece get so F’d up? Because of their Left-wing socialist governments and their failure to exercise fiscal prudence.

      Ring a Bell?

    • Rose says:

      05:45pm | 21/06/11

      “So we have got unemployment falling, we have got economic growth improving, we’ve got the best terms of trade in 140 years”.....This according to Joe Hockey TODAY!!
      So what exactly is the problem apart from Abbott continually stirring up a shitstorm about nothing?

    • NAN says:

      10:26pm | 21/06/11

      Agree with you totally Paula,The labour party cann’t do nor have they done anything for this country ,they are not in power they are in goverment,the greens and the rest of the hangers on are in power,this country is on it’s knees and screaming for help,the country is going to be bankrupted before the next 2 years are over,another day another tax to prop up the country for the short term ,John Howard left office with 56 billion in the coffers,we are now 116 billion in the red,all miss Gillard can do when she gets in front of a camera is bad mouth Tony Abbott.she has no futher for the country because she doesn’t have what is required to be a good leader,all you labour supporters out there will keep on trying to put everyone who doesn’t agree with your way of thinking down because monkey see monkey does,you have a good teacher in Miss Gillard ,

    • WayneT says:

      12:50pm | 21/06/11

      A bit rich Bob Brown coming out (no pun intended) and saying that a plebiscite is a waste of money, when he was calling for the same thing over the Republic question not all that long ago.  The press seem to forget these little details but Joe Public has a long memory!.

    • Andrew says:

      04:07pm | 21/06/11

      I think you could fine instances like this for almost every politician who plays a major role and most who don’t. Its a shame we can’t trust our politicians to just get onto doing what they are elected to do and instead play politcal pointscoring games.

      To suggest (and i am not saying you did) that it is confined to any particular side is spin in itself. They all do it.

    • Daniel says:

      12:51pm | 21/06/11

      Knowing what Abbott is like I would say the Liberals and Abbott are up to the biggest shallow stunt. He himself has had all kinds of positions on this issue. He is squirming in his own vomit this guy.

    • Dash says:

      05:26pm | 21/06/11

      “there will be no carbon tax under a government I lead” - sounds like a shallow stunt to me!

      The East Timor Solution - sounds like a stunt to me
      The Malaysian solution - stunt
      Grocery choice - sounds like a stunt to me
      Fuelwatch - sounds like a stunt to me
      No child shall live without a laptop - stunt
      Root and branch tax reform - stunt
      No onshore detention centres - stunt
      260 childcare centres - stunt
      Coast guard - Stunt

      Hmmm - Daniel, you may have hit on an ALP recurring theme!

    • Daniel says:

      06:01pm | 21/06/11

      Dash, As far as I’m concerned Labor is is bad as the Liberals. They are on of the same. Thats why Labor is going nowhere.

    • Dash says:

      06:20pm | 21/06/11

      And neither are the Greens Daniel. Now that they and their policies are being held accountable, I expect the greens will go backwards come the next election. I anticipate another NSW at a federal level. I am looking forward to seeing some media spotlight on the greens and their policies of higher taxation, euthanasia, decrminalisation of drugs, open borders, state censorship and socialist wealth redistribution.

    • Andrew says:

      01:00pm | 21/06/11

      I think we shouldn’t stop here. i think lets set parliament up big brother style. Set up a 24 hr tv channel up following all the latest political news. Upcoming bills to be voted on can be found online and read along with expert opinion on TV and on the net. The australian public can then vote by SMS whether they agree or disagree and leave comments on a website as to their concerns for debate.

      Seriously, we elect these people in to govern. If Tonys vote goes ahead than it will be a huge waste of time and money. I like that all the liberals go on about Julia Gillard having no mandate when that didn’t seem to matter in relation to the ETS under Kevin Rudd. He had a mandate, didn’t matter to the liberals then.

      I can’t believe how badly the government are going on this, they have a better policy than the liberals in this area but are completley botching the selling and fight. How about we vote on “Do you want to take action on climate change?” and “If the result is a yes vote would you prefer a policy completley paid for by tax payers or a system where polluting companys are taxed and compensation paid to homes to offest at least some if not all potential price increases which then turns into a self funding market mechanism?”

      Companys will pass on costs to customers but we don’t have any out and out monopolies that can lord it over everyone and they can only pass on so much before customers will go else where. And for all of you loaded up with the expected response of “all companys will pass on all of the cost”. The nature of competition means that companys can use this to increase market share and those companys that are the most efficient in their industry will be able to take further advantage of this as they will be better able to gain market share by offering lower prices than competitors. Customers just need to shop around.

    • Richard says:

      01:30pm | 21/06/11

      Actually Andrew, the suggestion in the first paragraph you made in just is actually not a bad idea. I mean, this is a democracy~ you know what that means right? Government of the people for the people by the people. As people’s technology advances, allowing us to all be more interconnected, why should not our democracy advance also and take advantage of these new technological improvements?

      But this is a democracy. Giving people a chance to have their voice heard is not ” a huge waste of time and money”. Giving people a chance to have their voice heard is the very essence of democracy.

      The people were deceived last election. They were told that suggestions Labor would introduce a Carbon Tax were “hysterically inaccurate”. Under these circumstances, it is disingenuous to say that now all the facts are clear, giving the Australian people to make an informed decision in the clear light of day is a “wast of money”.

    • Andrew says:

      04:02pm | 21/06/11

      Funnily enough i do know what a democracy means. I think the literal view of that is a very romantic idea but would not work in process.

      The democracy we have is the best version we could have that would still be practical. Here we have people who represent each section of australia. The person who receives the most votes in that section gets elected to represent those people. If they don’t do a good job they get voted out after their time period is up.

      I think we could all agree that if we were to be a literal democracy then there would be some extremley silly legislation coming into place.

      As for the Gillard line about not having a carbon tax, it was a stupid line that is for sure and i am sure she wishes every night that she didn’t utter it or had a qualifier as to under what terms a carbon tax is off the agenda. It has allowed for a huge distraction job by the other side and allowed them to hide their own flawed policy which from what i read leaves a lot to be desired.

      I am sure the official line would be that they went in saying they would put in place an ETS and that is what the carbon tax will eventually fall into.

      I still think a plebiscite is a waste of money and obviously a stunt. I think the stunt bit everyone can agree on. It didn’t get up so it doesn’t matter now. But seeing how it was non binding and was just to gauge some views i am sure you can hire a market research firm to do the same thing for 100th of the price.

      Personally, i am looking forward to the day when we can get back to discussing actual facts and policy. both sides which are ebst showed by comments on the punch where it is obvious for most of the time it is just the young libs and young labor guys filling in their spare time taking jabs at eachother. Maybe if both the ALP and Libs started to discuss some things and not just fight for fighting sake we might actually get somewhere and they can make decisionsh ebest interests of the electorate (our democracy)

    • Ross says:

      01:17pm | 21/06/11

      Didn’t Gillard make the promise about no carbon Tax before she found out the make up of the Government she was given to lead. and it was then forced on her. Anyway we need to price carbon so people in the future (your kids) will have something to breeth while there spending all the tax cuts uncle Tony will bring them . because they wont be working in the liberals new world .

    • Anubis says:

      04:16pm | 21/06/11

      @ Ross - your post translated to the Warmist catch cry - “For God’s sake won’t someone think of the children”

      The Carbon Tax will do nothing about the environment - confirmed by bith Garnaut and Flannery). It is one big money churn that will actually cost us between 3 and 4 billion dollars out of the public purse (see a previous post of mine to the Punch today). There will be nothing left to stimulate the development of alternative energy sources, it will stimulate not one iota of Carbon Dioxide emission reduction - the only result of the CArbon Tax will be that everything will increase in price as manufactureres, distributors, retailers (every branch of the production, distribution, sales chains) add their increased costs to the subsequent sales cost of every item. Not one business will absorb the increases in power and water charges or the increased transportation costs inherent with this scheme. The compounding price increases will hit home in one place only and that is the pocket of every consumer - with no reduction in emissions. Doesn’t make sense, does it ??

    • Patrick says:

      01:38pm | 21/06/11

      Ok Abbott doesn’t want to be held on the plebiscite, because what if the question is -  (and remember it does not have to be a yes/no answer
      Do you want Polluters to pay for their pollution?
      Yes - I want them to Pay for it (via a Carbon Tax, with Government compensation for lower wage earners);
      No - I want to pay for their pollution via decrease in services and additional other taxes (via direct action with Government payments to the polluters and no compensation for families)

      So does a yes answer seem so far fetched?  Such questions are entirely how they are asked. 
      Statistics and polling are meaningless if you don’t know what questions are being asked.

    • Ben81 says:

      02:36pm | 21/06/11

      Well yes, you could twist things and lie to influence a few votes.

    • Patrick says:

      01:27pm | 22/06/11

      Um have I misunderstood the two policies?

      Labor - broken Carbon Tax at polluter source, which hits exports but not imports.  Flow on costs from polluters to consumers to be offset with some compensation for some people.
      or
      Liberal - broken Direct Action which would cost 10s Billions (given to polluters in the vague hope they will do something constructive) and need to be paid for out of the general ledger.  No “Cost” to offset, except the 10s Billions that now aren’t being spent on other things in the budget.

      Current “polling” and I use the term loosely would suggest well over 50% (circa 60-70%) DON’T want direct action and the polluters getting money for perhaps making less mess in the future.  A bunch DON’T want the carbon tax either.  So it is entirely on how you ask the question.
      I look to who wrote the question as to what the outcome of the answer will be. 
      Its a waste of money to ask, because you engineer the answer you want, for a cost.  It is hardly truly democratic.  For that we would need the populace to care and understand, it does neither.

    • Ben81 says:

      02:38pm | 22/06/11

      Yes it seems you have very much misunderstood them. 
      The Coalition’s plan has specifically ruled out increased costs or increased taxes, will not cost anything like what you’re suggesting, and rewards companies that *actually cut emissions*, not just pay them in a “vague” hope that they do.
      Where did your 10s of billions of dollars idea come from anyway, that lie that we would somehow be forced to buy that much in carbon credits if targets aren’t met?

      On the carbon tax, it’s a lie that polluters are the ones who will pay.  Their costs will be simply passed on and eventually will have to be picked up by every consumer, as Garnaut has admitted.
      Australian products will become more expensive and the cost of doing business here will rise whether something actually happens to emissions or not.

    • Anita says:

      01:54pm | 21/06/11

      Abbott has been saying - “she does not listen to the electorate”
      She has now proved him to be 100% correct.

    • Michael says:

      02:45pm | 21/06/11

      @ Anita

      Incorrect.

      He has now proven unequivocally that it’s him who refuses to listen, not the Prime Minister, by admitting that he wouldn’t listen to the result of his stunt if it didn’t go his way. Great own goal, Tony.

    • Jane says:

      03:10pm | 21/06/11

      Yes Michael but the difference is the voters will have a choice to choose next time. He doesn’t have to support the carbon tax, in fact he doesn’t support it and never will. The voters thought Gillard also didn’t support the carbon tax when she went to the election.
      And parroting Labors press releases “stunt” doesn’t give you any more credibility by the way.

    • Michael says:

      04:52pm | 21/06/11

      @ Jane

      Incorrect. It was Abbott who said he wouldn’t listen to the result of his stunt if it didn’t go his way, not the Prime Minister.

    • Christian Real says:

      04:46am | 22/06/11

      Jane
      Are Liberal supporters and sympathisers just plain blind,dumb and stupid and can’t comprehend anything except what Tony “don’t believe everything I say” Abbott tells them.?
      From “The Australian”,dated 20th August,2010 (that’s the day before the last Federal Election) this story, “Julia Gillard’s carbon price promise”, written by Paul Kelly and Dennis Shanahan @ 12.00AM
      “Julia Gillard says she is prepared to legislate a carbon price in the next term.”
      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/julia-gillards-carbon-price-promise/story-...
      And this is from Mr “Don’t believe everything I say” Abbott
      This story from “The Age”, June 7,2011.  “Abbott dogged by old carbon comment”
      “Tony Abbott’s past as a climate change “weather vane” has come back to haunt him - again.”
      “The Opposition Leader has been shown spruiking a carbon tax in an old interview that was aired on Q & A on ABC Television yesterday.”
      “If you want to put a price on carbon,why not just do it with a simple tax?” Mr abbott argues.”
      http://www.theage.com.au/environment/climate-change/abbott-dogged-by-old-carbon-com...
      Julia Gillard did take a carbon price promise to the last Federal election,she did not lie as Tony Abbott has falsely led you gullible mob to believe.
      Tony Abbott however ,has been caught out spruiking a carbon tax in and old interview, the serial liar Abbott stikes again.

    • ausspud says:

      02:07pm | 21/06/11

      lol
      its been a nightmare,somebody please wake me up.

    • Cate says:

      04:57pm | 21/06/11

      Sorry the potion is very strong. We are all living the same nightmare.  Zombie land.  “You must assimilate”  The borg oh no! science fiction is now fact.  I did see a lead hanging out of the back of JG’s behind the other night. I couldn’t miss it.

    • Ben81 says:

      02:27pm | 21/06/11

      It’s a very good stunt.  Gillard ignores it and once again shows she’s not interested in what people want, or she accepts it and Abbott almost certainly comes out the winner.
      Whether or not either one will be ‘bound’ to it is meaningless, one of them will come out politically dead and the other won’t.

    • Cate says:

      03:43pm | 21/06/11

      I feel we should sack the GG, as she hasn’t got the courage to sack the illegitimate and incompetant PM because her son in law is one of the assasins that knifed Rudd. The elected PM Mr Rudd is the one that gave the GG her job. Oh the tangled web we weave.  As I have saidmany times before the GG should be elected by the people and approved on merit by the Queen.  The GG must not in anyway be politically biased which our current one is.  The GG must be neutral, and listen to the Australian people as a representative not of the PM but the Queen.  Gov Kerr had the courage to sack the Whitlam Government.  Where is our current day Govenor General’s courage.

    • Andrew says:

      04:18pm | 21/06/11

      Or we could just become a republic and skip the whole being approved by the queen

    • Donny says:

      04:32pm | 21/06/11

      Technically I believe she should be neutral, however at this point in time she is in Labor’s back pocket.  If she does nothing, she is entangled in the web of rubbish that Labor spins and will be remembered for it.  If she moved against the Govt, she would upset her family (son inlaw) and possibly lose her tax payer funded position.  Difficult spot for her, however we can only hope she does the right thing.

    • Kristy says:

      04:47pm | 21/06/11

      Liberals, LNP, Nationals total vote 4,504,152.  Labor and Greens 5,473,901. Labor 4,014,903 Liberal 3,161,222.  obviously, except to a Liberal more people voted Labor than Liberal, even when you add their Coalition partners more people voted Labor/Green. Majority rules…a democratic principle that Abbott and his cronies dont accept. Lets stop Coalitions.

    • Ben81 says:

      05:01pm | 21/06/11

      Kristy “more people voted Labor/Green”

      That’s funny, I don’t remember Labor and the Greens going to the election as a coalition, and I highly doubt they will at the next election either.  Don’t be ridiculous.

    • Steve says:

      05:18pm | 21/06/11

      Hi Cate. I am no fan of this Government however i don’t believe there is a precedence for dismissal. Incompetance and unpopularity are not grounds for dismissal. I for one would never vote for a republic that gave the GG(president) powers to dissolve parliament willy nilly.

      Think of the good things that come from this poor Govt. Many people who voted Labor in 2007 and 2010 will see the light and come over to the coalition never to return. Ask yourself how many people who voted for the coalition during the Howard years felt betrayed and will never vote coalition again. Except for those who swallowed the work choices spin i think the answer is not many.

      rather than looking to the GG for salvation you should look to the independants losing confidence. More likely tahn that would be a bye election in a marginal seat.

    • The Badger says:

      04:43pm | 21/06/11

      NEWSFLASH
      This breaking news just in.

      Tony Abbott has requested a leave of absence from parliament.
      Mr Abbott explained that he would be travelling overseas for as long as it took.

      When queried on how long what took, Mr Abbott explained that NO, contrary to advice from colleagues, he was not going to some rehabilitation centre in the English countryside, but rather on a more important mission. He was going to visit the queen for whom he has quite high regard.
      When asked about the intention of his visit, he said he would attempt to persuade the Queen in his role as the man who would be Prime Minister that she should sack Ms Quentin Bryce and install Nick Minchin as the new governor general.  Mr. Minchin could then under section 2 of the reserve powers dismiss the Prime Minister.
      According to Mr Abbot, this would clear the way for a new election which he would NO doubt win.

      Sources close to Mr Abbott suggested that in fact Mr. Abbot was indeed heading to a rehab centre in the Cotswolds.

    • nossy says:

      05:07pm | 21/06/11

      @The Badger - hahahah Badge I will pay that one - a beauty - top blog of the day ! They should call you “Scoop” Badge - no stories get past you !

    • Dash says:

      05:46pm | 21/06/11

      Badger, you wish! Abbott is getting exactly the reaction he is after. News reports and debate highlighting the fact that Gillard and the ALP deliberately lied to the people of Australia. And refuse to give the people a right to vote on a policy that will have significant impact on our economy, our industry, household budgets and jobs.

      Highlights what an unrepresentative pack of deceitful and gutless morons the ALP are! Abbott should continue to bring to the attention of the people how their government has deceived them and will not listen too them.

      Btw, is there a rehab clinic for compulsive liars Badger? It would be filled with the entire front bench of the ALP!

    • JR says:

      07:55pm | 21/06/11

      Funny “SCOOP”!

      But seriously, considering the role of the GG I am wondering why impartiality isn’t a prerequisite for the role. In so far that the GG should not be directly related to any currently serving minister. In case anyone forgot, the GG is Mother In Law to Greg Combet.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      05:19pm | 21/06/11

      Hubris comes before the fall.

    • Dave says:

      12:25am | 22/06/11

      “The findings of the report are of concern to all electricity consumers – businesses and households – given the increases in electricity

            prices shown,” Mr. Roman Domanski, Executive Director of the EUAA said in releasing the report. “Under the 5% emission reduction

            target that the Government favours and without international trade in permits, a carbon price operating without the RET leads to a

            wholesale electricity price increase of around $36/MWh by 2020 (an increase of about 86% on current wholesale electricity prices)

            and $114/MWh (plus 209%) by 2030. If a carbon price and the RET operate together (as envisaged by current policy), electricity price

            increases are driven even higher, reaching $51/MWh (plus 121%) by 2020 and $117/MWh (plus 215%) by 2030. If there is a binding

            international agreement on a carbon price sometime in the future, its impacts on electricity prices are moderated somewhat but still

            significant enough to cause hardship for electricity consumers.”

    • Enrico says:

      01:33am | 22/06/11

      Save us, Tony.  You’ve already seen off one pretender, one Kevin “Milky Bar Kid” Rudd, now, to see off Juliar Dullard.  The Prime Minister’s Office awaits.

    • Joan says:

      01:23pm | 22/06/11

      @ Enrico

      Abbott had his chance last August and blew it. Remember?

    • stevep says:

      02:04am | 22/06/11

      What sickens me more and more and more about this whole climate change / carbon price debate is the rabid tea party style personal attack driven partisan aguments being regurgitated by people on both sides of the fence…How is it that the science and economics of this debate are completely ignored and replaced by insults?

      Why are people so against the proposal to begin the long, slow but absolutely neccessary job of transforming our economy, and all for the sake of the price of a coffee and muffin per week?

      Would’previous generations of Australians been so cowardly and selfish to run away from such a challenge?

      What will grand children think of us as they read this self indulgent waffle and reflect on our fortitude and resolve?

      Are we the gutless generation?

      Aren’t we, with all the advantages of wealth, health, and education somewhat obligated to take a lead in the world on carbon abatement given our consumer lifestyle and coal fired resource driven economy in no small part brought us to this scenario?

    • Steve says:

      01:49pm | 22/06/11

      Your post ignores science and economics and contains insults.

      What sickens me is people who make categorical statements such as
      “the absolutely necessary job of transforming our economy”

      I admire the courage and guts of the people who steadfastly examine the science in the face the insults being hurled at them.

    • StevenP says:

      03:54pm | 22/06/11

      I’m not sure what exactly constitutes an insult, apart from my frustration with the quality of the debate..

      How long do you suggest we keep burning fossil fuels for energy production etc? The answer cannot surely be ‘forever’, hence a transformation is needed, and sooner rather than later is the overwhelmingly recommended timeframe.

      There’s not much scientific examination going on, nor courage being displayed, just naysaying.

    • James Darby says:

      10:57am | 22/06/11

      Gillard called the last Federal a full eight months early (to benefit the Greens and deny the opportunity of the Aust people being given time to judge her performance) at a cost of approximately $40m. This is figured out on the basis that Australia had the election period cut short by eight months.  Perhaps reminding Sen Feilding of the 100% increase in the number of pets being handed in with adoption rates reduced to 30% will highlight the horror of the economic disaster that Rudd/Gillard have inflicted on ordinary Australians. Change the Government for the sake of the heartbreak of the devoted pets being sent to doom and the despair of their poor elderly owners who can no longer afford to feed them. Unless a person is radically opposed to the socialisation of Australia that person is a Socialist.

    • poa says:

      08:06pm | 22/06/11

      Funny to see all Labors congaline of media suckholes baying in mock outrage at Abbots masterstroke on giving Aussies a say on the Carbon tax.
      It shows the cowardice and hypocricy of Bob Brown who called for a vote on the republic, and the deciet of Gillards No carbon Tax lie.
      Seems the only people who oppose this are those with an agenda that overrides their duyty to the Aussie people.
      Aussies deserve a say..we got one on the GST.
      Or is this only possible by outrageous lies.
      You included mate.

    • James Darby says:

      10:34pm | 22/06/11

      HI poa, Senator Fielding could also well take into account that spending $80m is only half a day’s borrowings. Very small change to pay to be rid of Gillard and Brown’s Govt. Poa, we never had an honesty vote on the GST as like Gillard the Democrates lied and said “They would keep the Bastards honest” and then allowed the shocking Nationalisation Tax called the GST to high tax and provide Labor with largess to Votebuy.  Nothing save a change of Govt will stop Gillard’s mission to chance the fabric of Australian society into one of zero National Identity abd maxium poverty.

    • mick says:

      05:15pm | 23/06/11

      Tony Abbott nust be starting to become a laughing stock, even with Australians who do not follow politics and like the Melbourne Cup are once in a cycle pundits.  Tony Abbot has not policy, but worse than that he is showing all the signs of being a trouble making stirer -  nothing that the Labor government does has any merit and his whole approach is to cause havoc.  Do we really want any such man as our prime minister?  And of course we have been seeing Tony dummy spitting and demanding a new election every few months.
      Get real.  This guy reminds me of a 5 year old holding their breath so that they get their own way.  Does he or the colleugues who put him into the job care about the future of the nation?  Clearly not.  They just want the top job and will do anything to get it whether it is in the interests of the nation or not.
      My feeling is the AVOID this buch until they become responsible and show a bit of interest in the nation.

    • James W says:

      02:52pm | 01/09/11

      I think Tony Abbot has best intentions at heart

    • Sir Troll A Lot says:

      03:01pm | 01/09/11

      Labor is full of Trolls!

 

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Anthony Sharwood

@MickNeven the game is called rugby league not rugby. Just like it's cricket not croquet! Sorry I can't catch ya show.

ToryShepherd

@KevCorduroy @ceda_news Cheers, couldn't get on to them but Redmond's office helped out in the end!

ToryShepherd

Does half the population really want to close the borders?? http://t.co/cNmpV2qH

Paul Colgan

In which Schapelle Corby is Photoshopped as Joan of Arc http://t.co/08UWH6yq

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Schapelle has done her time

Schapelle has done her time

Schapelle Corby has served more than seven years in Kerobokan prison for attempting to import 4.2 kilos…

Do women need to know when to walk away?

Do women need to know when to walk away?

Opposition Leader Isobel Redmond has sparked controversy over her advice that young women should sometimes…

Who murdered the Arts degree?

Who murdered the Arts degree?

Have we murdered the liberal arts education? That was the final question on Monday night’s Q&A…

Nosebleed Section

choice ringside rantings

From: They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

Michael S says:

"A teacher at Geelong Grammar had criticised her for using words that were too long, which had left her confused and had made her doubt her ability to write essays. She became ''quite distressed'' when her English marks began to fall." I can sympathise. My scholastic mentors conveyed to me a causal relationship… [read more]

From: Welfare for breeders is a bonus for everyone

Change Up! says:

I have no problem paying my taxes. As a single, childless person on a very decent income, I can afford it and not have my life severely altered. Plus I understand that my taxes paying for things like schools, childcare and infrastructure is ultimately a good thing. A better community is better for me… [read more]

Gentle jabs to the ribs

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

They must pay for one’s bitter disappointments

A private school girl’s family is sueing her elite, extremely expensive private school for not… Read more

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