“Dead, buried, cremated,” Tony Abbott decreed theatrically of WorkChoices amid a shaky start to his 2010 election campaign.

What fair work really looks like. Picture: news.com.au

It turned out it was a mere hiccup compared to the spectacular Cabinet leaks on the Government side which scuttled Julia Gillard’s credibility. She has never really recovered.

But the mere fact that a resurgent IR debate scared him witless says much about the history of this issue and the scars the 2007 defeat left.

That trauma also informed his pledge to leave Labor’s union-friendly Fair Work Act untouched for three years if elected.

That “dead, buried, cremated” promise may have been real politik but it was a more substantial capitulation than Julia Gillard’s “no-carbon-tax” pledge because it was an open-eyed surrender on a central article of conservative faith. Mr Abbott at least hasn’t gone back on his word.

But then, perhaps he should?

As large swathes of the economy struggle against a high dollar and high interest rates - both exacerbated by the mining boom - there is a renewed push from business for greater flexibility in the labour market.

And the more pressing that argument becomes, the less reasoned Mr Abbott’s election retreat looks.

In any case, not everyone feels as bound by that promise or as fearful of re-awakening the WorkChoices bogie.

Indeed a growing number of policy-minded MPs as well as business leaders are speaking up, complaining that Labor’s Fair Work Act, which ostensibly restored the balance after WorkChoices, has actually proved more regressive.

Critics believe that the Gillard reforms, (Ms Gillard was IR minister before replacing Kevin Rudd) have done much more than merely unpick WorkChoices.

“What underpinned WorkChoices really did go too far in removing what was known as the No Disadvantage Test,’’ concedes Peter Anderson from the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry.

“But for the ten years before WorkChoices we had a system of collective bargaining and also a system where you could make individual agreements with a No Disadvantage Test. That system worked quite well.’‘

Now they say, pattern bargaining is back - the tendency for union gains in one enterprise to become standardised for entire industry sectors.

For employers, the two biggest gripes among many are the restoration of weekend and over-time penalties, as uniformity of outcomes replaces enterprise-based agreements, and the return of onerous unfair dismissal laws.

Small business in particular says this has had the perverse effect of frightening employers into not hiring new staff for fear of being stuck with them if it doesn’t work out.

“In other words, the pendulum has swung back too far towards one size fits all rules across our economy,’’ says Anderson.

It’s an analysis the Workplace Relations Minister, Chris Evans steadfastly rejects.

“We think the Act gets the balance right,’’ he said on Tuesday.

“I think what we’re seeing now is a couple of things. First of all we have ideological warriors, those who want to go back to an individual contract system joining the debate. The same sort of people who’ve always opposed the sort of protections we’ve put in for working people into the Act,’’ he told Radio National.

But the Australian Industry Group’s Heather Ridout has long argued that there is a strong case for dropping the inflamed rhetoric in favour of change.

“Putting the positive aspects of the `Fair Work’ system to one side, the Government needs to accept that the laws are far from perfect and there are problems which need to be addressed,’’ she told an employment relations conference earlier this year.

The list of people calling for a proper debate to replace the old WorkChoices war is growing by the day.

But the silent one so far is Tony Abbott.

While a detailed IR policy is promised at a later time, the best the Opposition has done to date is agree with calls to bring forward next year’s scheduled review of the Fair Work Act.

Abbott’s reluctance was again on display this week after his mentor, John Howard said: “At some point this country has to wind back the re-regulation of the labour market.’’ He added for good measure: “It won’t happen under Labor because Labor is run by the unions’‘.

“It’s blindingly obvious that one of the worst mistakes Julia Gillard has made is to re-regulate the labour market. It is affecting our productivity and it will therefore affect our competitiveness,’’ he told 7.30.

While Mr Howard is mindful not to snooker his protege, the inescapable conclusion is (a) that he believes IR reform is absolutely essential, and (b) that it will have to come from the Coalition’.

Confronted with the Howard comments, Tony Abbott had little choice but to concede ground, but he did the bare minimum.

“Well, I think we need freedom,’’ he said in the best traditions of political hair-splitting.

“Now, there’s got to be minimums. There’s got to be fairness. But there’s also got to be freedom.’‘

Others take a more robust view.

Liberal MP Jamie Briggs, thinks the first step is to acknowledge that falling productivity is the problem and that flexibility is a big part of the answer - especially in the flat retail sector where the internet has changed the game.

“What it’s done is that it has exposed our retail sector to the competitive pressures that an industry sector like manufacturing has been exposed to for thirty years [and] what that does is highlight inefficiencies,’’ he says.

With all the clamour for a manufacturing inquiry, it is clear that declining productivity is the real elephant in the room. With manufacturing employing around one million people in this country compared to mining which employs more like 200,000, failure to address this problem will have material impacts on many peoples’ lives.

154 comments

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    • Erick says:

      06:22am | 03/09/11

      The effect of Workchoices on the 2007 election is vastly overrated. It wasn’t Workchoices that brought down the Howard government, but complacency and boredom.

      The voters were simply tired of the same old faces after 12 years, and decided to give the new mob a go. That was clearly a big mistake, as they have since recognised.

      The failure of the Workchoices bogeyman to affect the last election reveals that campaign as the paper tiger it always was. However, Tony Abbott is on a win, and he might rightly choose not to change tactics when his existing ones are working so well.

    • John A Neve says:

      09:11am | 03/09/11

      Erick,
      If your view is a correct one, which I doubt, it says little for the Australian electorate!
      Based on all I’ve witnessed, the hip-pocket nerve is the driver for most voters. Tax cuts and increases in welfare payments buys power.

    • Andy D says:

      10:21am | 03/09/11

      I don’t fully agree with you Erick, I think it was WorkChoices that brought down Howard.

      The problem with WorkChoices wasn’t anything to do with workers rights, it was that the legislation was designed to neuter the unions. Howard’s failure was that he thought he could slip this legislation through the parliament and nobody on the other side of the house would notice.

      The union movement (and their subordinates in the Labor Party) ran the most effective, manipulative and dishonest propaganda campaign since the Vietnam war. They ran the anti-WorkChoices campaign with the discipline of a Military unit and the commitment of a guerrilla rebel, they were fighting for their lives after all.

      If only the union movement would put as much energy into looking after the rights of their members, instead of lining the pockets of their leaders, Australia would be a different place.

    • Giraffe says:

      10:24am | 03/09/11

      I tend to agree in part with this Erick. I agree the voters grew tired of the same old government, but also fell victim to the union scare campaign waged on Workchoices. Unfotunately, Howard’s government were clearly a class above this current rabble and as you say the voters have since recognised this. I think in the months to come they will also recognise that Workchoices may not have been the world ending policy it was made out to be by the unions and labor.

      There were mistakes made in the formulation of Workchoices, however in a general sense it was a much more effective IR policy than the Fairwork act. I think if the mistakes made by the coalition can be rectified, a new and improved ‘Workchoices’ can be taken to the electtion and the coalition will still romp it in, despite any scare campaigns Paul Howes and co can come up with.

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      10:37am | 03/09/11

      @John A Neve

      sorry to burst your bubble but Howards government gave more to Aussies in tax cuts etc than Labor ever has.  Tax cuts year after year !  (because they had the money)  Labor has us in .$200 billion debt and still wants to try to outdo Howard.

    • Dissident says:

      11:51am | 03/09/11

      Erick is partly right in my interpretation of the events. Workchoices wasn’t received all that well across the nation as a whole, but it wasn’t the legislation itself that did in the Coalition. I think the fact that they didn’t have a mandate to bring it in is what really caused the problems.

      That is part of the reason why Gillard is getting so badly hammered in the polls now - she is trying to foist a Carbon Dioxide Tax on the population that overwhelmingly voted for no such tax. The two major parties both went to the election with a no Carbon Dioxide Tax.

      I also think that there was a large amount of Government fatigue in 2007 - people just wanted something new. Why do you think “Fresh Leadership” was such an effective slogan?

      Incidentally - if Kevin Rudd gets reinstalled as the PM, will he use the slogan “Re-heated Leadership?” hehe.

    • Against the Man says:

      12:11pm | 03/09/11

      John A Neve not attacking children today?

      Recent comments from others have put you in your place I see HaHa

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      12:12pm | 03/09/11

      come on people, if the voters really cared about work choices they would have been angry at Rudd who’s wife was abusing workchoices and underpaying her staff to the tune of millions.  On one hand you got a politician claiming workchoices disadvantages workers whilst his wife is ripping employees off illegally through the same system.  her answer is to sell her business, and that apparently made it alright.

    • Miranda says:

      12:25pm | 03/09/11

      I am also in total agreement with Erick. “Work choices” was used as an excuse to get rid of a government that had been in power for 12 years. Abbott wasn’t sure during the 2010 election campaign about IR and put the question to the business people who at the time wanted Labor’s Fair Work Act given a go to see whether it had the right balance for the employers and employees. Today, no doubt Labor’s Fair Work Act needs to be looked at and Abbott and Coalition will look into it for the betterment of productivity. Work choices is dead, buried and cremated but what we have in place today is up for scrutiny and that is what the Coalition will do when they become the government and Abbott our PM.

      An excellent article in the Australian today by Greg Sheridan on how Abbott will deal with our foreign policy.

      http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/abbott-has-right-stuff-to-master-the-world/story-e6frgd0x-12261

      A similar approach will apply when dealing with IR when Abbott becomes our PM. He is a decent very well educated man and should be given a chance if his party is elected by the people for the people. I think the media had better start looking at the positives instead of being negative about Abbott.

      I am prepared to wait for as long as it takes for a good outcome even if it is to get the bogans out of the Lodge for a family with old fashion family values. An Australian with catholic faith, married with children and believes strongly that marriage is between a man and a woman.

    • John A Neve says:

      01:40pm | 03/09/11

      AtM,
      The comments here so far are pure genius compared to your weak one
      liner.
      Tell us, do you play the fool or does it come natural?

    • The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

      01:42pm | 03/09/11

      John Neve….your comment once again demonstartes your rusted -on links with the Labor party . Your “local ” comments ” prove ” the link.
      The hip pocket voting motive has faded significantly and is replaced by concern for the nation and where it has headed under the Gillard minority experiment.

      Erick is right to point out that the I. R. scare campaign had little effect in bringing down the Howard government which in fact , met it’s demise via the ” tired and been in too long ” syndrome.

      Just as the Queensland electorate is about to turf out Labor for much the same reasons including of course the destruction of the Queensland economy.

    • John A Neve says:

      01:49pm | 03/09/11

      Max,
      I think you might have misread Erick. What his post actually claims, is that the electorate was bored with the coalition government.
      “The voters were simply tired of the same old faces”, which is why I posted what I did. When a country picks it’s government based on whether they are boring or not, it is doomed

    • Simon says:

      02:58pm | 03/09/11

      “Simply tired of the same old faces”, Eric? Still in denial, I see.

      The Howard Government brought down the Howard Government, with WorkChoices at its ideological core.

      It was toxic then, and it’s toxic now, which is why Abbott pretends that it’s “dead, buried and cremated”.

    • The Phenom says:

      04:23pm | 03/09/11

      The during the work"choices” argument the unions had real workers relating their actual experiences whilst the government had to use actors to read from scripts.

      It was the race to the bottom that workers experienced as employers took advantage of a one sided IR system that cost Howard his government and his seat.

      As ever Erick your bullshit is transparent to everyone but the myopically right wing. I’ll tell you what though, bring back work"choices” as it was in 2007 and watch people forget the Carbon Tax quicker than you can say Tony Abbott’s admitted liar.

      Your weak attempt to repaint history is laughable.

    • John A Neve says:

      06:56pm | 03/09/11

      The Galah (Wayne),

      I see the party told you to keep out of the local paper, had you become an embarrassment?
      How is your puppet man going?

    • gra gra says:

      12:32am | 04/09/11

      Erick.. I don’t want to seem too critical but how do you know that the evil, anti-Australian “Workchoices” didn’t bring Howard and the rest of his Government down? Do you have some figures to back your somewhat
      grandiose claim? Or is it just another example of your rather inflated self-opinion that you are infallible?
      Without being an expert, and certainly with no experience in diagnosing
      personality disorders, it seems to this layman that you have a real problem. Why would anyone, looking to have an effect on a debate, and not totally lacking in intelligence, make a statement that would entail knowing exactly who did what and why? With again, no evidence.
      And what tactics of your chosen messiah, the servant of Rome, are “working so well”? He is a violent, foul mouthed, liar who at a moments notice can become the friend of miners and farmers, (who are opposed to each other), and swear allegiance to both. As he did to Rome. And to the Liberal Party. And to Australia.
      What a sad, sorry apologist you are for a decent Australian.

    • The Galah from Hervey Bay says:

      10:28am | 04/09/11

      John Neve….wrong again John - the Chronic has seen fit to deny publication . Keep in mind , of course , that Chapman is a self confessed Labor supporter . ( via his own editorial)  Watch the action Tuesday John - every dog gets it’s day.
      How’s Bill and Don going ?  Don seems to be a little desperate.

    • Steve Putnam says:

      10:34am | 04/09/11

      Workchoices caused disquiet across the economy. I have friends in banking and finance who voted Labor in 2007 for the first time. Their reasoning was that they couldn’t see how banks and lending institutions would be able to lend money for the long term (eg: homeloans) to people on short term work place contracts thus causing massive contractions in their main areas of business.
      As usual Erick, your logic is conspicuous by its absence; people don’t change governments because they are bored. In over 40 years of watching governments come and go I have never once heard this used as a reason for change.

    • Anubis says:

      11:51am | 04/09/11

      The big turn-off for Workchoices was that it was too heavily slanted toward the employers. Labors Fair Work has gone too far toward the other end of the spectrum, giving the unions too much power relevant to their minimal representation. What is needed is IR policy that protects the rights of the workers but still allows employers some say in events. A middle ground needs to be found.

    • Tory Shepherd

      Tory Shepherd says:

      03:11pm | 04/09/11

      John A Neve & ATM I’m working on some web code that will automatically block you whenever you turn your attention to each other instead of the matter at hand!

    • mick says:

      03:49pm | 04/09/11

      WorkChoices scared the pants off working Australians, and rightly so.  Complacency had absolutely nothing to do with it.  What played out was the class war where the top end of town wants to skin workers and the bottom end of town wants to do as little as possible and get paid for it.
      If the nation embraces a WorkChoices type re-run then the only jobs created will be at the expense of falling wages for those average Australians who are struggling so hard now.  How does the big end of town expect workers to pay an ever increasing raft of expenses with a falling wage?  electricity has sky rocketed of late.  So has fuel, public transport and some government charges.  And then we have councils itching to hit their electorates with above CPI rate increases when most workers do not even receive CPI based wage increases.
      One has to be careful when one hears talk from the Liberal side of politics advocating IR laws.  This, like tax cuts, applies to average wage earners, not the top end of town and the electorate needs to be wary about what the true intentions are.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      04:01pm | 04/09/11

      @Tory Shepherd- I think AtM and John A Neve should get a motel room.

    • Robert Smissen of country SA says:

      06:06pm | 04/09/11

      Put up or shut up gra gra, please show an example of the honorable Tony Abbott being foul mouthed or violent, on the other hand we have examples of Labor leaders who don’t mind a bit of rough stuff

    • acotrel says:

      09:18pm | 04/09/11

      ‘But the Australian Industry Group’s Heather Ridout has long argued that there is a strong case for dropping the inflamed rhetoric in favour of change.’

      I just love broad statements which go nowhere near the specifics.  THe fact is the change involves business owners taking a totally new motivating approach towards their workers.  Authoritarianism destroys creativity ! Like all lunchtime heroes Heather Ridout won’t ruffle the feathers of the blokes holding the purse strings.

    • acotrel says:

      09:24pm | 04/09/11

      @John A Neve
      ‘Based on all I’ve witnessed, the hip-pocket nerve is the driver for most voters. Tax cuts and increases in welfare payments buys power’

      The lost election might have had more than a little to do with people seeing their fellow workers get shafted by overjoyed employers playing their silly games, and using employees one against the other. There are a couple of businesses in Benalla which I have given the flick to, forever.  If they’re going to get into that cynical bullshit with their staff, they don’t need me for a customer !

    • Sarah says:

      12:03pm | 05/09/11

      Speak for yourself Erick. I personally voted for Rudd wholly and solely because I personally, was hammered as a Telstra employee, by Work Choices and I wanted Howard and his arrogant ‘I can do anything and you can’t stop me’ tyranny out the window as a result. Work Choices made a MASSIVELY negative impact on my life and on the hundreds of my colleagues at the time. Otherwise, can’t say I really ever had a problem with most of what Howard did (although I cannot forget his little speech about ‘Core’ and ‘Non-Core’ promises.)

    • Jem says:

      02:28pm | 05/09/11

      I think the handling and scope of Workchoices played a large part in the Howard Government losing the election, including the sitting Prime Minister losing his seat. 

      Once they had the majority in the Senate, the Government went too far and had an attitude of “we can do what we want and you can’t stop us”.  The Senate previously evening out the more extreme ends of reforms, however, once that was a rubber stamp, the Workchoices went to an extreme that created unsettled working environments for some workers, and the ability for employers to exploit this.

      Workchoices wasn’t necessarily bad, it didn’t have enough checks and balances for workers protection.  Enabling people to be worse off as a result of the implementation was never going to go down well with the people at risk.  The unions were handed a scare campaign on a silver platter by unscrupulous empolyers.  The unions just needed real people telling their stories of how Workchoices had screwed them over, and the job was done. 

      Additionally, it had a strong vibe of “getting back at the unions”, which isn’t a great selling point either.

      We have had much longer lived governments in this country, on a state and federal level.  Boredom isn’t enough for the voting public to toss out what was seen as a responsible economic manager in favour of an unknown.  I don’t believe the electorate as a whole is that much of a risk taker.  Workchoices created uncertainty for a large section of the public and there were people who were absolutely worse off under the reforms.  That is what cost the government - a failure to see how their reforms would be misused to the detriment of the workers.  Or a failure to realise that people do not view government mandated reductions in their working conditions as an acceptable thing.

    • Seth Brundle says:

      02:43pm | 05/09/11

      Actually I voted against the libs solely because of Work Choices after having been on the receiving end of its abuses.  Work Choices is also the only thing that will prevent me from voting liberal this time round as well, despite the incompetence of the current government.  The faintest wiff of workchoices could save labor.

    • n_dude says:

      03:32pm | 05/09/11

      @Andy D - what goes around comes around for the ALP. You could argue the mining companies “ran the most effective, manipulative and dishonest propaganda campaign since” Workchoices in relation to the mining tax. That propoganda continues with the big miners apparently being responsible for providing neo natal care in a Newcastle hospital…

    • Super D says:

      06:57am | 03/09/11

      Given that every other policy area touched by this government has turned to muck it won’t be hard to demonstrate to the electorate that the most incompetent government in the nations history has stuffed up IR as well.

    • LeftRightOut says:

      01:36pm | 03/09/11

      Super D is right, of course… there is much evidence around that FWA is overreaching, and individuals from the union movement leadership said after the 2007 election that it was now “get square time”.
      Most conservatives expected an uptick in strike activity, and they’ve been proven correct. Under Labor, this will always be the case, Labor is the union movement, these are not two separate groups, they are one and the same.

      This mob will roll out work choices for their scare campaign (it’s amusing that Abbott gets accused of running scare campaigns when all you hear from labor is WORK CHOICES!!! repeated ad nausium) - as it is all they have left.

      Their record of spectacular failure, the damage they’re doing to our international reputation, the stalling of business and the economy, their effect on inflation and interest rates… it is unbeleievable that they could be this bad - but they are!

    • WayneT says:

      01:42pm | 03/09/11

      The coalition can just use the slogan from the last WA election - ‘Name three things the Government has achieved?’.  Most people would be hard pressed to think of even one!

    • John A Neve says:

      02:23pm | 03/09/11

      Super D,
      Surely those workers who have chosen to withdraw their labour are the “electorate”?

      Do you and MarK deny your fellow citizens that right?

    • Shane says:

      03:02pm | 03/09/11

      @Wayne

      Record wealth

      Record employment

      Fair Work

      There you go. Easy.

    • Against the Man says:

      05:32pm | 03/09/11

      Surly John A Neve you must know your answers are foolish and idiotic much like the ALP smile

      pssst…........that is going to be good news next week…....tune in to the news smile

    • acotrel says:

      12:08pm | 04/09/11

      @left Right Out
      ‘Super D is right, of course…’
      Hilarious you guys agreeing with each other !  Can’t you recognised you all been indoctrinated with the same bullshit ?

    • Andrew says:

      10:55am | 05/09/11

      Pressing the +1 and like button Shane.

    • Slim says:

      08:31am | 03/09/11

      The proponents of reforming IR talk in broad generalities without explaining precisely what needs changing. We hear of the need to increase productivity and this seems to come down ‘greater flexibility in the labour market’. Whichever way you slice it, that is code for working harder - preferably for the same or less money. That is always going to be a hard sell, which is why Tony Abbott doesn’t like to talk about it.

    • David S says:

      04:24am | 04/09/11

      Exactly.  Buzzwords like “reform” or “flexibility” are code for lower wages and making it easier to sack someone.
      And all the talk about negotiations between employer and employee are baloney.  IR academics should try to negotiate with their universities and see how far they get.  Perhaps the extreme right wing fringe that seems to lurk around the RMIT economics department might like to practise what they preach.

    • acotrel says:

      09:12pm | 04/09/11

      @DavidS   Anyone who has an MBA knows that downsizing is the best way to get a productivity gain ?  The trouble is that people like John Howard have no idea how wealth is generated, and getting a genuine productivity gain is way beyond their ken !  Our manufacturing industry has almost managed itself into extinction, yet the LNP pollies cannot see that it’s their own party’s stupidity which is destroyng it by pandering to incompetence !  We didn’t need Workchoices.  What we needed was a burst of creativity from leaders who can motivate others without coercing them.

    • iansand says:

      08:47am | 03/09/11

      I see yer problem:

      “And the more pressing that argument becomes, the less reasoned Mr Abbott’s election retreat looks.”

      “Abbott” and “reasoned” in the same sentence.  The bloke wants power, and will do whatever it takes.  “Reasoned” is not a factor.  Nor is principle.

    • L. says:

      10:19am | 03/09/11

      “The bloke wants power, and will do whatever it takes.”

      Right…

      And Gillard agreeing to the Carbon Tax against her promise and agreeing to deliver the NBN in the most inefficient way possible (regional) to buy the independents wasn’t a case of “whatever it takes..??”

    • Felipe says:

      10:57am | 03/09/11

      Every political party wants to be in power but Gillard/Labor wanting to stay in power is very different from the Coalitions.  The Coalition is on the record to be doing more for the country, they are more professional in their dealings with problems.  Okay the Coalition admitted to have gone further with Workchoices but they have understood and have admitted that they have made a mistake.  Labor will never admit to their mistakes.  Just look at Gillard statements of yesterday, she says that she is the best person to do the job when everyone knows she has bungled every policies she has handled.  She is still giggling and telling everybody that she has many things to do.  I am very worried of the many things she will destroy and put Australia at risks.

    • Donny says:

      11:55am | 03/09/11

      And Gillard and Labor won’t do anything to stay in power ? - http://www.news.com.au/national/broke-mp-craig-thomson-planning-100000-home-extension/story-e6frfkvr-1226128525304

      Which ever way you want to read the above story, not a good look when Ms Gillard has openly stated 100% confidence in Mr Thomson.  He lodged an application to spend another one hundred thousand on his house, yet went to his Union/Party bosses for money to pay his legal bills. The lead investigator of his Fair Work case has been promoted, despite taking over two years to investigate, with no resolution as yet.

      I think Labor are the ones who will do “Whatever it takes” to stay in power.

    • iansand says:

      02:39pm | 03/09/11

      I hate to tell you people, but “she did it too” is only a reasonable argument if you are an 8 year old or a rugby league player.

    • MarK says:

      03:13pm | 03/09/11

      hate to tell you sanderson that is the only argument Labor has been using for 4 years

    • Harry says:

      08:56am | 03/09/11

      Work choices had little to do with Howards demise in the 2007 election. It is purely more deluded arrogance from the Unions and the Labor Party to say their campaign against work choices booted the Howard Government. He was gone no matter what, the electorate were tired of him after 11 years, end of story.

    • embracedmadness says:

      01:41pm | 03/09/11

      Couldn’t agree more. A lot of my friends got caught up in the Kevin 07 hoo haa and have had nothing but regret since. If only John Howard gave the reins to Peter Costello before the 07 election… Or if Costello stood up for himself… either or.

    • Mark says:

      02:48pm | 03/09/11

      Then why was WorkChoices “dead, buried and cremated” ?

      And why does Abbott pretend that he still wouldn’t touch “WorkChoices” with ten foot pole ?

    • The Phenom says:

      07:52pm | 03/09/11

      Bollocks. Had Howard not gone hard on work"choices” after the winfall of winning both houses he would still be in power now and Costello would likely still be waiting in the wings.

      People don’t change governments in good times because they get bored. People don’t like change at all and the don’t like risk, Howard gave them a reason and a good one.

      Even Hockey, Captain Avuncular himself admitted they knew it was bad for workers. If conservatives want to pretend that work"choices” wasn’t a problem for workers and didn’t cost them an election then they are doomed to repeat the mistakes of the past.

    • Mark says:

      10:24pm | 03/09/11

      @Phenom

      Exactly.

      In fact, Michael Brissenden predicted it perfectly here on October 28, 2004, (in a piece introduced, ironically, by Maxine McKew).

      “JOHN HOWARD, PRIME MINISTER: It’s a very good outcome.

      But I want to assure the Australian people that the Government will use its majority in the new Senate very carefully, very wisely, and not provocatively.

      We intend to do the things we’ve promised the Australian people we would do, but we don’t intend to allow this unexpected, but welcome, majority in the Senate to go to our heads.

      MICHAEL BRISSENDEN: Well, maybe not.

      History will be the judge there.”

      And it was. Was it ever. As Tony Abbott is all too aware.

    • Austin 3:16 says:

      01:15pm | 04/09/11

      Personally I think that the feeling of betrayal is on of the most powerful political motivators that there are. You see it reflected now in both State and Federal Politics. The voters of Qld haven’t forgiven Bligh for “lying” to them over asset sales. Federally we haven’t forgiven Julia for the “no carbon tax” backflip.

      With WorkChoices Howard betrayed his “battlers” - the voters who had trusted him,to keep interest rates low, to help send the kids to a better school. To look after them, with WorkChoices Howard made it clear he was siding with the boss over the battler.

      It’s no accident that the union adds featured ordinary, everyday Australians who were the kind of “aspirational battler”  who Howard had so previously connected to.

    • mick says:

      08:56am | 03/09/11

      The talk about workplace reform has hit the air waves.  John Howard has reappeared and is plugging this issue and you can bet your bottom dollar that if we see a Liberal government it will be in.
      The trouble with Work Choices is that it has nothing to do with “choices” and everything to do with turning Australia’s workplace into a US style labour market where you have the well to do doing very nicely and the poor.  Half of the US does not pay taxes and some have full time jobs and receive food coupons on top of that.  I don’t think that working Australia would want to see this and hence the removal of the Howard government.
      Of course we do need a fair wage system.  But then what is fair?  Is it fair that the top end of our society continues to get enormous wage rises year in and year out whilst employers complain that a meagre increase for workers is “too much”?  There has to be a balance.  Unfortunately the big business driven argument in favour of a Work Choices type system reeks of self interest.  We are being peppered up with terminology like “greater flexibility” which may well mean enslavement.  This is what working Australians need to weigh up if they elect a Liberal government.  Lest we forget.

    • PsychoHyena says:

      10:11am | 03/09/11

      Mick you’ve got it in one, we see big companies sacking people because they can’t afford the wages and then they increase the fat cats’ wages by several million, with said millions being more than they saved by sacking all the staff.

      The fact that many of the IWAs implemented during WorkChoices breached working conditions goes to show how poor a choice it was.

      Hmmmm it would be interesting what a collective strike could do in those situations, if there was an agreement amongst workers that if one gets fired they all strike or something similar you could push a company to reconsider their hiring and firing practices by putting them into a position where firing everyone who’s striking would put them out of business.

    • Martin says:

      12:12pm | 03/09/11

      Look at the Labor deadbeats bleating crap about Workchoices. Ever paid wages fellas? No of course you haven’t. Never been a small business owner, always an employee always will be. Get a job in a unionised workplace, bludge at every opportunity, get every allowance for everything imaginable and overtime. then still whinge. Then your company says we’ve had enough of no productivity and closes the doors. Oh it’s Workchoices, it’s slave labour!!! Bullshit, more like it’s slack workers expecting $40 to 50 an hour and doing bugger all for it. You can’rt expect to get away with this for ever, wages are much cheaper in Asia, and hence we continue to bleed jobs to other nations. The way to keep jobs here is do more work in week, actually earn your pay and do a better quality job than those overseas can do. Workchoices was about giving incentive to those that want work harder. Labor’s approach is everyone’s equal, hard workers should be paid the same as bludgers, no tall poppies no achievers.  You now have Howes and other unionists now calling for an inquiry in the manufacturing industries in Australia. They know that jobs are being lost and will be lost in the future and are extremely anxious to do something about it. Maybe they should have considered this when they campiagned against Worchoices.

    • PTom says:

      05:09pm | 04/09/11

      Martin,
      You all talk because but failed to explain how cutting wage and condition will increase productivity nor why the fall in productivity under workchocies.

      Companies don’t have flexiablity.
      What is the minimum wage? $15.51
      What are retails working hours? 7am-9pm Mon-Sat
      Can you still have indicidual contract? Yes

      Yet mining companies are paying more and offering more still can’t stop people leaving.

    • Fots says:

      10:30am | 05/09/11

      @PTom

      The problem isn’t the minimum wage. As a small business owner, I’d have absolutely no problem paying extra for someone who is good at their job and show a degree of care and responsibility.
      The REAL problem is when you hire someone who doesn’t fit the job, or for whatever reason needs to be let go… and this is why individual contracts are all the rage again.

      I also saw this when I was working as an IT contractor. All the big companies didn’t want to hire permanent staff @ 100K/year… Instead they’d pay 700 per day to staff on rolling contracts who’d end up staying there for years. All because the labour laws in our country are far from fair. (It suited me though, it increased my pay packet)

    • Anichol says:

      06:00pm | 06/09/11

      @Fots
      “The REAL problem is when you hire someone who doesn’t fit the job, or for whatever reason needs to be let go… and this is why individual contracts are all the rage again.”

      Why not put people on 3 months probation which should give you plenty of time to weed out the undesirables.

      Maybe the part of your comment “or for whatever reason needs to be let go…” is a clear indication of your views towards your workers.

      I’m a contractor and have been for many years, recently I took up an offer to work full time for a metal fabrication company on night shift, I was offered at least 2 years work and along with 12 other boilermaker/welders we worked 52hr weeks finishing at 2am mon - frid.
      After 2 months we finished the job we started on and we all got 3hrs notice that we are not required anymore.
      The whole of nightshift was cancelled and they now have gone back to day shift only.
      They obviously had no intention of giving anyone long term job security and only offered a permanent position to get there current contract finished and make sure we all turned up every night.
      There was a 3 month probation period that we all signed when starting the job.
      Honestly who needs 3 months to work out if someone is suitable for the job?
      You can tell after a few days who the slackers are.
      While this did not bother me it did affect many of the guys who had families and sacrificed their time with them to work the long hours.
      Many of the guys turned down day jobs solely because it was a permanent position and gave them peace of mind of ongoing work and for some the prospect of looking towards buying a home after being refused loans because they have only had casual work up to then.
      I have been a boss and know how difficult it is to find the right people to employ but every company has the option of giving new employees a trial period and to be honest what more do you want?

    • Bris Jack says:

      09:00am | 03/09/11

      At the last election Abbott said he would leave it upto business to make the call.  With their support he may start to move.

    • Jacko says:

      09:26am | 03/09/11

      Abbott said he would wait for business to come to him first regarding IR if they’re not happy and have cooncerns, and it looks as though that is what they are doing.

    • Supercilious says:

      09:27am | 03/09/11

      Under a conservative government, the workforce will be transformed into slave labourers working to make their masters richer.
      Everyone should just shut up now and take their medicine like good little slaves, The rich need to get richer, the gap needs to be wider.

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      10:19am | 03/09/11

      Utter codswallop

      we are enslaving Chinese and 3rd world people by buying their goods.

    • Andy D says:

      10:24am | 03/09/11

      Keep pushing the party line comrade!! You may even believe your own drivel one day.

    • scaper... says:

      11:42am | 03/09/11

      PEASANT!

    • I Love my Roller says:

      01:40pm | 03/09/11

      Actually, they’re called Capitalist Pigs.

      Capitalist Pigs love WorkChoices and we love Tony Abbott even more.

      Screw the worker, screw the ALP, screw anyone that doesn’t vote Liberal.

      We need another election NOW before the whole country is screwed.

    • Maree says:

      04:26pm | 03/09/11

      I expect my employer to be my life benefactor. They owe me ! Even if I am incompetent, lazy, or just want to take the day off.  Ah ! the blameless employee !!

    • Timmy says:

      09:14pm | 04/09/11

      Under a Labor/Greens Government, this wouldn’t happen because most people won’t have a job.

    • Bob says:

      09:43am | 05/09/11

      @Tim

      You do realise that under this Labor Government the unemployment rate is under 5%, don’t you?

    • Holly says:

      09:30am | 03/09/11

      Of course he will have to adopt Workchoices 2.  Let here be no doubt - the Murdoch press and business and mining groups are not conspiring to get rid of this Labor government for nothing.  Then the silly mutton headed sycophants of Tony Abbott will learn which side their bread is really buttered.  Abbott is not interested in the ordinary Australian or their families.  He is interested in power.  Meanwhile he stands to become the windvane puppet of the already affluent in our society who give not a hoot for our country’s values of “mateship” and egalitarianism.  The catch cry of the coalition is cost of living pressures.  How in God’s name is further lowering the wages of the 60% of citizens in low paid jobs going to to address this issue.

      As J.K Galbraith said “the timeless quest of conservatives everywhere - to find a higher justification for selfishness”  - how true.

    • Aitch B says:

      10:56am | 03/09/11

      @Holly

      And all you’re interested in, my dear, is seeing Labor stay in power - “whatever it takes”.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      12:20pm | 03/09/11

      “Abbott is not interested in the ordinary Australian or their families.  He is interested in power. “

      Your kidding right? compared to whom?  - Gillard?
      Like she wouldn’t go back on core campaign promises to do a deal with independents and the greens to get power right? Oh wait, that’s exactly what she did.  thanks greens for a carbon tax etc etc.
      You really think Gillard gives a rats behind about any of us, she cant get anything right, and I reckon she has more chance of becoming full forward for the bulldogs than stepping down.
      You want to talk about someone that would do anything for power, look no further than Gillard.  She would knife, do, say and make deals with anyone to get it and retain it. and the reality is we have proof of her doing this,

    • Geez... says:

      01:57pm | 03/09/11

      Looks like somebody at the asylum has left the door of the office open again…...

    • Martin says:

      03:50pm | 03/09/11

      @Geez, you’re right there. These Labor people really talk crap. This piece by Holly is utter fantasy.

    • Brian Taylor says:

      05:36pm | 03/09/11

      maree, do you really believe the crap you write?
      ” the Murdoch press and business and mining groups are not conspiring to get rid of this Labor government for nothing”
      what about Ms Gillard stuffing everything she touch’s?
      don’t you think that just maybe the Australian public are sick and tired of all the spin and waste Gillard and Co have been dishing out for the pass few years?
      But then again, you sound like a true blue union worker, who wants everything handed to them on a plate for doing bugger all work.
      I’ve been in a union (forced into joining mind you) only a couple of times in my life, the other 42 years I’ve worked for myself.
      if I didn’t work harder ( I did) I wouldn’t get paid and to my way of thinking, thats the right way.
      I worked for what I had in life, can most unionist workers claim the same?

    • Brian Taylor says:

      05:40pm | 03/09/11

      @ maree, oops sorry meant Holly , forgive me please Maree

    • acotrel says:

      09:00pm | 04/09/11

      @Holly
      How can you be so silly?  Tony Abbott is a really nice man with a realistic vision for Australia, which involves rich people caring for poor people.

    • egg says:

      06:43pm | 05/09/11

      @brian taylor, where do you get off saying that being a member of a union means you don’t work? that’s a ridiculous, childish finger-pointing exercise that doesn’t paint you as someone worth listening to. if you want to have a big tanty about unions, fair enough, but don’t think it will actually get you anywhere.

      if you actually have any REAL points to make, go ahead. if you plan on more of the “i’m not in a union, therefore i work harder, i swear” routine, may as well not bother.

    • Macca says:

      09:32am | 03/09/11

      Mark, firstly to the Fair Work Act. I disagree that the re-introduction of Overtime and Penalty rates in Modern Awards is a cause for concern. Many of these are hard-won benefits of the past several decades and it was wrong for them to be removed under Workchoices (however, where they have been introduced for the first time, in Hospitality and Retail for example, I see this as an increased cost that is hampering already struggling industries).

      The Unfair Dismissal claims are similarly not too bad. The procedural fairness requirements are cumbersome for small or poorly resourced businesses and can result in even the most obviously terminable offenders receiving compensation for their dismissal. This is a bug bear and a time waster, but it is the nature of the law at present.

      But the biggest concerns are the removal of individual contracts and pursuit of inflexible workplace arrangements by the Union movement over the past few years. The removal of individual contracts makes it increadibly difficult for a company to introduce a pay for performance culture that financial recognises individual effort or performance.

      But it’s the pursuit of inflexibility in the workplace by the union movement that is causing the greatest impact on productivity in Australian workplaces. Clauses restricting the use of Contractors, Casual workers, Apprentices and Trainees is a misguided attempt to protect the current workforce. Excessive (>3months) notice periods to change shift rosters means that companies cannot react swiftly to changes in market demand, resulting in excess costs. I have recently come across an Enteprise Agreement that restricts the changing of rosters to ensure that the employees will never be paid worse off. This is increadibly restrictive and severely impacts on any company to run an effective and profitable company.

      It is allowing these matters into the scope of the Fair Work Act, and the restrictions on engaging employees in an individual manner, that is impacting on Australia’s global competitiveness

    • L. says:

      10:28am | 03/09/11

      “I disagree that the re-introduction of Overtime and Penalty rates in Modern Awards is a cause for concern”

      I’m guessing that you don’t own a business of any type..?

    • Macca says:

      11:22am | 03/09/11

      @L. when quoted in that context, I agree that my statement is ... well, crap.
      Any changing of Industrial Relations laws is going to be a minefield for any business to apapt to. Mostly, the Modern Awards were designed to not increase penalities in industries where they previously did not exist (i.e. Hospitality and retail). Industries that lost penalty rates under Workchoices and then had them reintroduced, I don’t neccesarily see that as being unfair on employers, albeit difficult to remain profitable.

      Workchoices missed the mark, but the FWA is a gross overcorrection.

    • BobM says:

      09:40am | 03/09/11

      A lot of people are going to lose their jobs in the coming months due to the ongoing effects of the GFC. It’s not over yet folks - and Fair Work Australia won’t be of any help. More like a hindrance to workplace flexibility.

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      10:33am | 03/09/11

      I agree,
      our manufacturing industry is on a real down right now, exacerbated by union acts similar to the Toyota walkout of 3000 yesterday.

      This does not just affect Toyota but all the local parts suppliers. 

      To make things worse the government is pouring money in hoping this will save them.  What are they going to do when Toyota says “enough, shut down and go to China”.  Pour in more money, so more profits go outside Aussie.  (e.g. Mitsubishi )

      Time for huge change, the level playing field has never existed and never will.  We are entitled to self defence !

    • John A Neve says:

      06:50pm | 03/09/11

      Max,
      In case you don’t know it, “the union” is only a name.
      What in fact occured is three thousand Australain citizens “walked out”.
      Unlike you they think and are prepared to do something about their concerns. Do you ever back your mouth up with action?

    • Holly says:

      10:23am | 03/09/11

      Macca I’m afraid I do not share your views on individual contracts.  Prior to Workchoices there was never an impediment to individual contracts (they were common law contracts) - and that is just what they were - usually offered at management level and negotiated by someone who had a bit more bargaining capacity with the employer.  The AWAs were individual contracts in name only.  They were nutted out by employers groups and lawyers and offered to workers on a take it or leave it basis.  They were supposedly “confidential” contracts - to be discussed with no one.  Really they were just a vehicle for stripping wages and conditions from our most vulnerable workers.

      Employer groups who whinge about penalty rates and unfair dismissal are really doing just that.  The unfair dismissal laws in their current form are not at all onerous on any genuine employer - in fact I would argue that they are to much in the employer’s favour and still do not go far enough to stamp out unscrupulous practices.  (I wonder if any of your children have been caught out in the trial at low or no wages scam, or sacked seemingly for no reason once they cross an age barrier).

      Of course it is always easy to trot out what might appear seemingly anomolously generous payments.  One cited in the press was a laundry worker on an offshore rig and supposedly earning $400,000.  Goodness where can I get that job.  If other workers on the rig are earning these rates of pay why single out the laundry worker.  And hey what about the managers and the CEO on millions.  Apparently no problem.

      The productivity issue is more vexed.  People look back at increased productivity in the 80s and 90s but this was largely illusory and was the result of large scale downsizing and loss of jobs.  Employers are talking about working harder.  Whenever I enter a supermarket, nursing home, airport, child care centre etc I see lower paid workers in this country working their butts off quite frankly.  Maybe time to scrutinise management practices a little more closely methinks.  They’re the only ones who I see going to lunch.

    • Macca says:

      11:58am | 03/09/11

      Holly, first point; Unfair Dismissal laws. They are increadibly onerous on employers. To lodge an unfair dismissal claim an employee need only fill in a 2 page document which can be filled with just about anything. The claim will still be heard. The employer, on the other hand, must present the evidence and facts that led to the dismissal. This can often take hours of several employees’ valuable time. Then several employees must represent the company at a Conciliation hearing which itself can take several hours, where the two parties try to reach a settlement agreement. Regardless of the merits of either sides arguement, the process of conciliation is basically a negotiation; how much money will make you go away. The conciliator cannot make a binding argument either way. The alternative is arbitration, involving lawyers and even more of existing employees time. Quite simply, this process is an unnecessary use of people’s time and impacts of the productivity of the entire economy. And if we put a dollar value on the time of all these people’s time that has been taken out to attend to this process, it easily shoots up into the 10s of thousands. Your statement that it benefits employers over employees is, in practice, completely false.

      As for my children, I don’t have any, but I’ll congratulate you on the typical Left tactic of using emotion to try to win your argument.

      Whilst we are on the topic of productivity, training is the outstanding issue here. Quite simply, there has not been enough work done to develop on the job training in the existing workforce, and we see that with the current skills shortage. There is simply not enough development of skilled labourers, trades employees or university students / graduates currently.

      Whilst you’ll stick to your Union roots, Holly, the only way for Australia to remain competitive on the global market in industries such as Manufacturing and Construction is to upskill the existing and future workforces and de-regulate the current workforce.

      Quite simply, it is too difficult to employee good people, either because they don’t exist or because the risk of taking on someone extra is too great.

    • Keith Hammersmith says:

      12:08am | 05/09/11

      macca says “Quite simply, it is too difficult to employee good people, either because they don’t exist or because the risk of taking on someone extra is too great. “

      I couldnt agree more, I am a small business owner, and for the last 4 years, if I can hire someone off-shore to complete a job I will do that over employing a local because of those exact reasons.  The current IR climate has made it dangerous to put on full time staff, and thats not good for the country.  The unions are kidding themselves if they think it is.
      (yes yes I can see it coming now, I am the bad guy for creating a business to support my family and not wanting to risk it by hiring local people that do not have the gumption to start a business and take risk for themselves).  People need to realize, business owners make this country go,  its risky, takes courage,  working for someone else is a lot easier, and the current IR laws just make it harder.

    • Mike says:

      10:31am | 03/09/11

      Its very simple. If Work Choices is resurrected, Labor will win the next election. People hate the carbon tax, But they fear Work Choices. One may cost them a few dollars. The other threatens their jobs and lifestyle.  Easy choice.

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      11:28am | 03/09/11

      Not so easy choice, first you must have a job.

      With current IR law the unions get to run rough shod over everybody, small business does not want to hire people (maybe except casuals) and big business is voting with it’s feet moving jobs overseas.

      Work Choices was flawed but did have a couple of saving graces.

      Labor chance of winning the election is about as good as a snowballs chance in hell.  Their credibility is near ZERO and falling.

      Every time Gillard comes on TV now people are switching off, not worth listening to.  The only chance Labor has is to find a new PM that, maybe, can turn this around, but don’t hold your breath the talent is really lacking or very well hidden.

      But wait, there’s more,
      scandal over the Thomson affair is yet to hit the fan and the immigration debacle still has a long way to go.  And if that’s not enough, throw in the pending failure to achieve a surplus in the budget.
      8-(

    • Against the Man says:

      12:10pm | 03/09/11

      No threat to jobs when the carbon tax wipes them out or reduces working hours…..........it has already happened.

      Anyway the people have realised that the ALP have no skills in running the government, game over Gillard smile

    • Denny Crane says:

      02:38pm | 03/09/11

      Only if the unions and labor are allowed to lie and spin like they did last time. You probably believe that it was Rudd and Swan who saved us frrom the GFC. There are now thousands worse off thanks to fairwork Australia. It seems that all you fools want the same benefits as the big end of town but your not prepared to work for it.

    • PTom says:

      04:50pm | 04/09/11

      Max, of Rocky .
      Workchoice hade saving what?
      Cutting workers pay, making them work long and reduce productivity.
      Worked well.

    • Supercilious says:

      11:07am | 03/09/11

      “And the solutions (across-the-board austerity measures) seem to uniformly target the poor and middle class, who had little to do with creating the mess, rather than the rich and powerful (again, see Roger Cohen).  Indeed, in light of the US’s refusal to raise taxes to address its spiralling debt, consider former World Bank Economist Joe Stiglitz’s essay on how the top 1 per cent in the US control 40 per cent of wealth and 25 per cent of income.”
      This is what the conservatives would bring to Australia. Work choices is the thin edge of the wedge

    • Geez... says:

      02:09pm | 03/09/11

      Bullshit….try using your over the top, scaremongering imagination on something positive….like getting a real job.

    • Nikki Heat says:

      11:40am | 03/09/11

      The Coalition and Tony Abbott are dead and buried once he revives Work Choices !

    • nikki heat says:

      11:45am | 03/09/11

      Richo says that Labor and Julia Gillard are dead and buried and that its curtains for Labor next election.
      What better way for the Coalition and Tony Abbott to win a federal election than to reintroduce Work Choices. It would make Richo proud to be an Australian and Richo would predict a landslide Coalition win at the poll!

    • Max, of Rocky says:

      12:23pm | 03/09/11

      If they did go to the election with an IR policy up front, and won, they would have a mandate to bring it in.

      Big question is:  Will the Greens pass it through the Senate ?

    • Nikki Heat says:

      11:55am | 03/09/11

      With Work Choices resurrected, betting would see the Coalition getting 11.5 points start against Labor
      Labor versus Coalition   +11.5 points start at Canberra!

    • Al says:

      12:18pm | 03/09/11

      The main thing SO many people get wrong is this:
      WorkChoices did NOT introduce individual statutory contracts, as such including them in an IR policy is NOT a re-introduction of WorkChoices.
      I personaly think that people should be able to make an individual statutory contract subject to a no-dsiadvantage test (however named) BUT that it can not be made a condition of employment that you make one.
      Sure WorkChoices went too far, but the way things are at the moment makes it very inflexible and if just one employee chooses to have the union represent them in bargaing for a collective agreement EVERY employee will be subject to it.
      Let employees choose to get rid of the crap that doesn’t suit them for a higher rate of pay if they choose (e.g. I will never be accessing parental leave, so why can’t I negotiate the removal of paid parental leave for a higher salary, because that would be a breach of the collective agreement. There are numerous other ‘benefits’ I would be happy to do without for higher pay, but will never be approved as part of a collective agreement.)

    • Super D says:

      12:27pm | 03/09/11

      Abbott won’t reintroduce Workchoices.  There will be individual contracts and relief from unfair dismissal for small business.  There will also be a new body, likely part of ASIC or similar, who will be charged with monitoring union finances in the wake of the Thomson affair.  Any union scare campaigns will be ignored.

    • MarK says:

      01:12pm | 03/09/11

      Correct.

      The only real question will be who will be responding as leader of the Labor party.

    • Green Power says:

      01:55pm | 03/09/11

      “Abbott won’t reintroduce Workchoices” - WRONG

      It has been part of his plan from day one, he never dropped the idea, Eric Abetz will vow for that. Why do you think he has brought John Howard back to argue the case?

      A Leopard doesn’t change its spots.

    • Mel says:

      03:06pm | 03/09/11

      Of course he will, but not until after the next election.

    • Martin says:

      11:14am | 04/09/11

      Labor at 27% and falling, nothing left to offer, and low and behold out comes the “Workchoices” card. The Labor tools know they are gone. This is their only hope they believe, however what is not being recognised by the offending Labor tools is that the unions now stink as much as Workchoices., Jobs are being lost under the policies of this government and people are now waking up to the fact that Labor = instability and uncertainty. This on top of the utter uselessness of this Labor government in every arena that they have stuck their grubby interventionalist hands into. Abbott has made complete clowns of the Labor drongos and will not be handing them “Workchoices” as a weapon. He will instead give them no ammunition, they will disintergrate as they cannot govern because of the ridiculous minority arrangement they are in and will have most likely around 40 seats in the lower house if they are lucky. A fitting end to the crappiest government in Australian history

    • Mel says:

      12:41pm | 04/09/11

      @Martin

      It was “Labor tool” John Howard who brought up WorkChoices again, as this article explains. You should have read it.

    • Kipling says:

      12:38pm | 03/09/11

      So we have had media representatives extorting the evils of the current PM for “lying” and here we have a media representative suggesting that the current leader of the opposition should consider breaking a promise (which is what the PM did and that was somehow a lie). So, this raises the question, would the media then extort the evils of the current opposition leadeer once he becomes PM for “lying” or, would we get history repeating itself with a softly soflty approach and an exceptence of the anticipated dismisall of any suggestion that he lied?
      A curious point to ponder…
      Flexibility in the work place and increased productivity are mere euphamisms for the actual exploitation of workers…. Of course employers would be happy with this.

    • Al says:

      11:45am | 05/09/11

      The question would be if the Liberals changed the policy before the election and took it to the people or if the stated that it was not part of their policy and then changed once in power.
      If taken to an election = Changing policy that received peoples support.
      If changed after the election = Lying to the people to get into power.
      Can you see the difference?

    • MarK says:

      01:24pm | 03/09/11

      Off topic but important.

      Milne has been removed form Insiders tomorrow where he was on the panel and has been sacked form the show going forward.

      Press censorship regarding Gillard is now in full force and payback is the enforcing tool.

      This is terrifying.

      When the press is silenced and threats made and retribution carried out then we are on the brink.

      Gillard is a disgrace.

      Talk all you want about Workchoices. Gillard is destroying jobs of her detractors and even people that merely report on her past indiscretions and failures.

      It disgusts me.

      Welcome to Australia. We will be able to read what they decide.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      06:41pm | 03/09/11

      Yeah, right, Gillard is able to censor the media but stuffs up everything else she touches. Paranoid much? Better put it in the conspiracy basket along with AGW etc

    • MarK says:

      09:26pm | 03/09/11

      No conspiracy son.

      She screamed abuse and the ABC jumped.

      So lets recap.

      State owned and controlled media outlet blacklists reporter that dared to criticise PM.

      Seems pretty simple to me.

    • Kipling says:

      06:12am | 04/09/11

      Just a few points son.
      Yes it is off topic, relevance dropping to zero.
      Not   important because it isn’t backed up ie there will be more to the story.
      Without back up and being OFF TOPIC it looks very much like a tin foil hat wearing conspiranut post.
      Reread what Shane poinyed out, it’s pretty simple.
      That’s about it for now son.

    • MDG says:

      01:07pm | 05/09/11

      Come on, MarK.  Can you see why a media outlet wouldn’t race to associate itself with a journalist so negligent that he exposed his employer to serious civil liability?  Milne’s article was so slanderous and incorrect that News Ltd was forced to retract it and apologise.  And if being critical of the PM is what it takes to get you booted, care to explain why the likes of Mike Stutchbury (who was on Insiders yesterday), Piers Akerman and Gerard Henderson are all regulars on that show?  Or would that challenge your conspiracy theory a bit too much?

    • Helen says:

      01:24pm | 03/09/11

      If Gillard makes any changes to her IR policy it’s OK by her supporters but if Abbott was to make any changes to her IR policy it’s called work choices….go figure?
      Abbott said he would consider changes if business came to him with concerns.
      But the very very desperate Labor Government and their supporters can’t wait to scream work choices from the roof tops.
      As long as they have the opportunity to scream work choices that’s all that matters, stuff sensible policy changes.

    • Mickey T says:

      12:00pm | 04/09/11

      ...spoken like a true conservative. Abbott doesn’t have any policies, though he does have a 70 billion dollar black-hole to fill.

    • Catching up says:

      02:02pm | 03/09/11

      It is not about work place reform when it comes to Mr. Howard and Mr. Reith, it is about getting rid of the unions. 

      Many in the Opposition have hatred for unions.

      If it was about reform of Fair Work, they would be preparing for the review that is built into the act.  Due, I believe early next year.

      The fact that the act is due to be reviewed makes one wonder what the Opposition is playing at.

    • Holly says:

      02:11pm | 03/09/11

      Quite frankly any workplace which would try to negotiate their own enterprise agreement without the union will be worse off.  I was on workplace enterprise bargaining team for many years and helped negotiate 4 agreements.  It was a very torrid place to be.  Without the resources of the union (admittedly there was no internet then) we would have been done like a dinner. By the way we had no objection to identifying productivity improvements i.e. working better and smarter, but all the managers wanted was trade off of conditions and to try to give us piddling increases well below CPI.  We would have been heaps worse off without the union.  One time CEO tried to get up a non union agreement but it was voted down by staff - he sulked for months and had to be dragged kicking and screaming back to negotiating table - usual threats of no backdating etc. 

      To Super D I thought those two factors (individual contracts and unfair dismissal) were the main thrust of work choices.

      The moral is things are rarely as black and white as reported in the press.

    • MarK says:

      03:16pm | 03/09/11

      HAHAHAH

      “Lost” my other post eh.

      This goes on with increasingly inconvenient frequency.

      Ah well….if it is hgood enough for the PM to scream obscenities down a pohone to secure censorship no reason the Punch mods shouldn’t stay silent and do the same.

    • Fromage67 says:

      04:11pm | 05/09/11

      Seriously dude, you need some help with your delusions.

    • Steve says:

      03:43pm | 03/09/11

      The promise by Abbott not to touch “fair work” was only relevant to the last election.

      I think the nation would be best served bt a return to the pre work choices era. Howevber whatever platform the coalition decides on prior to the next election let us not have any broken promises.

      If we hear the words “There will be no change to fair work under a Govt I lead in the next Parliament” then that is what must be delivered.

      If there is intention to amend IR then it must be stated before the election. Austrlains of all political sides are not in the mood for the turmoil created by another significant broken promise.

      Sometimes on things like IR you need productivity to fall and unemployment to rise so much that even the unions start asking for IR to be deregulated.Then if you listen carefully you can hear the sound of pennies dropping.

      I think if basic economics was a compulsory subject at school people, even workers, would be happier with their lot.

    • Wayne says:

      08:25pm | 03/09/11

      We all know the current work place laws are a joke for us to compete on the global stage. However, the massive 2007 scare campaign by the unions and Labor have moved it off the agenda for the foreseeable future to the detriment of the country. It is also a joke that school children were unable to work for a few hours after school, which gives them workplace routine and some spending money. Things will have to get worse before the public will accept changes are required.

    • MarK says:

      09:30pm | 03/09/11

      Well this has been a fun thread.

      Wonder how many more threads about Abbott and the coalition we will have now Gillard has self destructed to attempt to deflect even more criticism from her.

      Should be fun

    • Kurisu Sonsaku says:

      10:33pm | 03/09/11

      But wait, not only does juliar stop dissent on ‘our’ ALPBC she also makes a convenient appointment;

      Mr Tim Lee, the General Manager of Fair Work Australia, has been made a Commissioner of Fair Work Australia after a exhaustive, merit-based appointments process.
      Lee is well-known for his Labor links, including his time as a Ministerial Adviser.  He was previously a union offical with the Australian Services Union.
      By making this appointment, Lee will be prevented from appearing before the Senate Estimates Committee to answer questions about the slower-than-a-wet-weak inquiry being conducted into the affairs of the HSU and Craig Thomson’s involvement.  Recall that the inquiry began in mid-2009 – gosh, so much to do, so many people to interview.  (Note that the President of FWA kicked up a real stink about appearing before the Senate – beneath him, evidently – notwithstanding that the Chairman of the ACCC, for instance, never had any such problem.)

      Here is the good oil

      http://catallaxyfiles.com/2011/09/03/more-jobs-for-mates/

      How much lower can this corrupt administration go :(

    • Mel says:

      10:35pm | 03/09/11

      I predict at least one every time John Howard goes on national television again to announce what the Coalition’s plans are for after the next election.

    • Against the Man says:

      09:23am | 04/09/11

      Watching Chris Bowen on the Insiders, he isn’t answering direct questions and spinning like his life depends on it.

      He is guilty as sin. Love watching the ALP screw themselves…......

    • John A Neve says:

      12:36pm | 04/09/11

      AtM,
      Now come on, not even you are that dumb!
      Tell us the name of any politician who has given a direct answer to any question?
      I’ve always known you were a child, now you have confirmed it.

    • John A Neve says:

      05:53pm | 04/09/11

      Raqueteer,
      I repeat for your benefit, I have no political allegiancies what so ever.
      As to your fictitious claims, some supporting evidence please, just to prove to the readers that you are not a lie.
      Which I know you are.

    • Racqueteer says:

      09:36pm | 04/09/11

      John
      Your persistent rantings in the local rag are evidence enough although you are well known as a local Labor mouthpiece…each to their own…but your rantings have consistently failed to tell us why we must stick with incompetent Labor governments in QLD and nationally.

    • Racqueteer says:

      12:42pm | 04/09/11

      Is this the same John Neve who has professed hid independence to all but sits proudly in state Labor’s local campaign? The same one who apologises for school halls costing 4 times what they’re worth; the same one who tells us we’ve never had it better; the same one who thinks carbon tax will save us?
      Might want to learn to play the ball John…

    • John A Neve says:

      07:06am | 05/09/11

      Raqueteer,
      Seeing as you seem to want to persist with your fales claims!
      Please provide some evidence, if you can.

      PS, Love your name change, lacking courage are you?

    • Racqueteer says:

      10:27am | 05/09/11

      Sorry John…far from lacking courage as you will find….similar issue as your spelling of ‘false’....but the evidence is clear simply by scrolling through your persistently hate-filled rantings in the Fraser Coast Chronicle or Independent newspapers.

      Your claims of ’ no political allegiance’ seem to diminish when you constantly are propping up local, state and federal Labor at any given opportunity.

    • nossy says:

      01:04pm | 04/09/11

      Abbott goes to the Birdsville races and they get rained out for the 1st time ever!  hahahhahaha   Could poor old Tony Abbott be the biggest loser the Libs have ever put up as leader Mark?  I mean what ever has this F grader ever won? He attended the “Convoy Of No Consequence” in Canberra where 4000 were expected and only 300 turned up then later in Parliament he moved a motion to have Gillard make a statement on Thomson which was duly defeated! Strewth hes lost EVERY Censure motion he has every moved as well - about 16 so far - hasnt won one!  hahahah Going back to the 2010 election when 3 weeks in to the campaign Labor were gone for all money on the back of Laurie Oakes revelations and even a goose would have picked up 1st prize - bit NO Tones lost that one too!  then he again failed to win over the Independents to form govt. in a hung Parliament. Looking to the last Newspoll he is only 1 point ahead of the unpopular Gillard in the Preffered PM stakes - 1 point only! This poor little chap has D.U.D. written all over his forehead - the boover boy of politics and Labors greatest Electoral asset! Labor have also been able to get every piece of their legislation through Parliament - 185 pieces - he hasnt stopped one piece so far !  Ohhhhh how sweet it is!

    • Northern Steve says:

      03:29pm | 04/09/11

      Nossy, it’s ‘bovver’ boy, not boover. Do you even know what it means? If you’re going to resort to crap copy pasta, can you at least learn to spell?
      Now, Seano disappeared once Gillard’s ratings hit 29%. Shall we open a book as to how low the ratings have to go before Nossy stops publishing this tripe?  I reckon 26% and poof, he’ll be gone.

    • nossy says:

      04:56pm | 04/09/11

      @Northern Steve   hahahha Stevey my lad nossy votes for Bob Katters party - havnt you been paying attention! Ohh its “copy and paste” Steve not “pasta” - but thanks for trying fella !  hahahahah
      http://www.ausparty.org.au/

    • Northern Steve says:

      09:37pm | 04/09/11

      Just twigged, isn’t ausparty the katter/mclindon combo? i thought it bit the bullet already?  They had a candidate to show off in Mackay, and Katter was a no show?

    • PTom says:

      05:21pm | 04/09/11

      Seems like true karma has biten Milne on the ass for his BS

    • William B says:

      08:24pm | 04/09/11

      @karma

      Thanks for the link. It proves that Mark was wrong when he claimed that Milne was removed from Insiders because he “dared to criticise” the PM. He was removed because it was “it was essential that participants could be relied upon not to compromise the ABC’s editorial standards.” Which is the same reason that The Australian pulled the article and it “was replaced with an apology which confirmed “The Australian acknowledges these assertions are untrue.”

      BS walks. Well done, News Ltd. Well done, ABC.

    • Northern Steve says:

      03:35pm | 04/09/11

      It’s worth remembering that Gillard doesn’t actually have any real belief in her own IR laws. When the teachers started getting stuck into her over her crap education reforms, she was very ready to take them on, calling for teachers to be summarily sacked, pay docked etc. She was more than happy to take away unfair dismissal rights from teachers when she thought it would get her a few more votes. Bligh’s the same in Qld. Anyone thinks Labor is pro-worker? No, but they are pro union money, until your union gets In their way.

    • nossy says:

      04:59pm | 04/09/11

      @Northern Steve   - what part of the Liberal Party website did you get that info from Stevey?

    • Northern Steve says:

      09:26pm | 04/09/11

      No website, nossy, just keeping up to date with stuff you know.  A bit of personal knowledge too, being a teacher myself.
      Look, there are actually some good ideas coming out of Canberra on education, such as funding laptops for kids, even the national curriculum has some positives, but it’s been so rushed, and made to suit a political rather than an educational agenda.  For instance, there’s money for computers, but not really for training for teachers as to what to do with them.  People need time for that sort of thing.  The National Curriculum is a fine idea, but should have had a five to ten year implementation plan, not rushed out as it was.
      And when teachers try to point out the problems, they get roasted in the national media by the PM, have all sorts of threats put over them.  The big one was the MySchool website, a truly horrendous idea, which has failed in the US and the UK.  Teachers pointing out it would cause the same problems here and tried to fight it, were threatened with fines and the sack.
      Like most of GIllard’s stuff - nice ideas, horrible implementation. And when it fails, its always someone else’s fault.

    • KLG says:

      04:36pm | 04/09/11

      No matter which side of politics you are on, there is serious problems with Fairwork.  The people on the inside know this they just don’t know how to fix it without looking like they have made a big mistake. 

      They have to fix:
      Adverse action - far to broad and more scary to employers than unfair dismissals.  Already starting to cause major headaches and a rise in casual workers.
      individual flexibility agreements - Workers today want the right to negotiate what they think is best for them.  However, I all in favour of a safety net which is where workchoices stuffed it.
      Ability to negotiate without unions
      Strike laws.
      As a minimum.

    • Canute Wasright says:

      08:24am | 05/09/11

      $20 million spent on a 2 years door knock greass roots campaign against work choices. Even before its effect was known.
      Union membership was dwindling and those who stand on the shoulders of workers to enjoy the benefits of ‘safe seats’ after taking one pension from the union they ‘represent’ are as guilty as the bosses who are accused of ripping off the same workers.
      find an edge exploit it until the lies catch up.
      Meawhile we all rant and rome burns regardless of our rusted on opinions
      Decline is inevitable, eh acotroll?

    • Al says:

      11:56am | 05/09/11

      The one thing I would like to know, why is it that Labours IR laws (Fair Work) actualy EXCLUDE the vast majority of Public Servants from the protections in these laws?
      Do they somehow consider Public Servants unworthy of the protections that the general workers (and in some cases ALL workers other than those specificly excluded) receive?
      Hell, under the new laws there isn’t even an award that provides minimum conditions for the majority of Public Servants and so they RELY on making collective agreements (which of course also means the union being involved as their is ALWAYS at least 1 union member in each department).
      Labour- for the worker, unless you work for the Government!

    • Al says:

      12:05pm | 05/09/11

      There is of course a middle ground between WorkChoices and the Fair Work Act.
      Allow individual statutory agreements to be made by genuine agreement, but make it illegal to be a condition of employment.
      This would allow people to trade off the crap they don’t want or need by genuine agreement but can prevent employers ‘forcing’ people to sign an agreement to get a job.
      If employers will ONLY hire people who sign an agreement, they can be prosecuted.
      If people wish to terminate their agreements and fall back onto the award terms and conditions this should be allowed by the giving of notice by either party AT ANY TIME, and this would not terminate their employment.
      These types of rules (and others) would generaly mean that agreements would mean better terms/conditions/pay and that even if you had a nasty employer who wouldn’t hire you without signing, once employed you could terminate it without having to wait for it to ‘expire’.
      I don’t see what the huge hassle is?

    • David says:

      02:12pm | 05/09/11

      Question, Why do employers employ people. Answer, because they are too lazy to do the work themselves. Question, how do employers make a profit, Answer, by not paying the people they employ the true value of their labour.
      Question, what happened to the long lunch, Answer, the tax paying workers no longer had to pick up their tab. Question, who complains most about our society and the share of wealth, those driving the Mercedes or those on the bus, Answer, you guessed it—Its the Merc driver. grin

    • D2 says:

      03:31pm | 05/09/11

      Why do employers employ people?
      Because they are not able (due to quantity of work or specialised experience) to do the work themselves (which is much cheaper than employees, you don’t have to pay yourself anything).
      How do employers make a profit?
      By taking an item/service and selling it at GREATER than the cost of producing/providing it, just because a buisness makes a profit does NOT mean they are ripping off their workers.
      What happened to the long lunch?
      Sorry, never had it, or are you refering to the politicians who STILL have it.
      Who complains most about our society and the share of wealth?
      Those without and those with both complain about the same. The more we have the more we want. It is just that those with more tend to be able to influence those in power to do somrthing.
      The real question you should be asking is:
      Why do we alow so few (politicians and loby groups) to have so much power over so many?

      BTW - I love to complain about society and my share of wealth, and guess what I always catch a bus and have NEVER owned a Merc (or any vehicle for that matter).

    • Al says:

      04:05pm | 05/09/11

      Heres my IR proposal:
      - Same minimum ‘safety net’ applies to EVERYONE (not over 100 different awards etc.)
      - Everything else is up for negotiation.

    • James O says:

      07:09pm | 05/09/11

      IR would be a wonderful distraction at the moment, Tony Abbott must be very pleased that Kerry O’Brien no longer hosts The 7.30 Report, if it ever escapes out of that black hole it’s been buried in Kerry would have him nailed up on the cross in next to no time. Perhaps Andrew Bolt could prepare some slick answers to those tricky IR questions,and even invite Tony on his Sunday morning show to manufacture the scoop he dearly needs,but of course Barrie Cassidy would have already interviewed Chris Evans and the come back trail for Gillard would have well and truely started.
      God bless the Unions.

    • David says:

      12:25pm | 06/09/11

      D2 that was lame.

    • taxslave says:

      01:46pm | 07/11/11

      Howard was throw out because of a number of things .Workchoices was one. It forced peoples wages down.  Try and compete with Chinese manufacturers ,impossible .This will never happen .I heard of employees that were paid $5 an hour to work including weekends no overtime payments at all.I can never understand one thing ,if you reduce wages you reduce jobs because people have nothing to spend to keep the economy going .Why do it .Look around any affluent area .People losing homes and retail shops closing,farmers walking off the land mate the countrys in big trouble . Both liberal and labour have sold that many assets we only own ten percent of our country .The remaining ninety percent is owned by banks and multinationals and they pay no tax .I dont know about the rest of you but this is very worrying .We need to vote out both parties because nothing will change with either of them .I fear for my children in the future .W are slaves to the taxation system .Fix this , tax the other ninety percent and watch this country improve so dramatically .We would be rich again is just a few years

 

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