A tale of two punches

Gladys says:

07:03am | 08/02/11

Good point, Erick. When I was growing up, a female was no more in a fight than a grandmother. Now it seems both females and grannies are always in fights.

Am I old fashioned or was I never exposed to the female version of the guy with the mullet?

George says:

07:12am | 08/02/11

Erick

You must have been in another galaxy or better yet you’ve been smoking something to have induced your deep psychosis to have not seen the campaign you are looking for.

Yes the Violence Against Women Campaign has not been seen since 2007, you only have to thank the ALP for that. But such a campaign exist and ran successfully under the previous government.

Why don’t you ask your mates at ALP HQ to run it again, surely Joolya can be a figurehead.

ClaireP says:

07:45am | 08/02/11

George, I think Eric is talking about girls being violent. I was beyond shocked to overhear a group of girls talking about bottling someone at a party. I just couldn’t help myself - I asked them if they had been raised by wolves and they said it goes on all the time. Charming. The rise of violent behaviour by girls is concerning and puzzling.

AliceC says:

08:11am | 08/02/11

@Erick

LOL! That’s his point, enough man bashing….

Luce says:

08:44am | 08/02/11

Erick, you actually have a point. A friend of mine was punched multiple times by a girl who was trying to steal her phone, and I’ve watched a girl be brutally beaten by 3 other girls in broad day light on one of the busiest streets in Sydney.

However, violence perpetrated by men is still higher, and always will be due to a little thing called testosterone.

Matt says:

08:51am | 08/02/11

Erick -

You completely missed the point of this article. That would be like me saying:
‘Enough of this man bashing. I’m still waiting for a campaign that even acknowledges the existence of aliens.’

Read the article. Read what is says. Don’t read what it ISN’T about. There’s plenty of campaigns about that anyway. This article isn’t about that.

Penbo: Good article, amigo.

ben says:

09:04am | 08/02/11

I have to say this with all honesty and with experience i have to say that there are answers to all these question but most people dont like to hear it. I have to say from personal experience is that most of the people or immigrants espeically from europe mainly greeks, italians, and lebonese are the usual problems. I am not a racist person i just make very detail observations. In my last 4 years of attending any music or rave festival i could, i have to say that i found majority of major clashes happen between ethic males. it seems to me they are just very aggresive in nature and it probably has to do with the protein(steriods) what ever helps them sleep at night being mixed with the alcohol and drugs they take. Also i personal avoid many places of the city because back in the day it was true when your parents said just walk away and all be well, well today if you walk away you get some little ethic hero taking offence to your back to him, and cause he normally imature and cant control himself, SNAP in the back of the head out cold! i seen many first hand incident of this and i happy to prove them to you come out on day with me and point it out to all of you that its the ethic youth that cause the problem. Although i should add even though anglo saxon kids may no physical provoke i dont deny they will mentally provoke and push them but once again no reason for violence!

Kaz says:

09:07am | 08/02/11

George, the Violence against Women campaign is still well and truly running. Before attempting to make this a political slinging match, do your research.

Kate says:

09:59am | 08/02/11

Erick - there was a show called ‘Girlfights’ or something like that on Foxtel last week that discussed this issue, pretty scary stuff.
It was interesting viewing, but annoyed me in that it compared legitimate sports like roller derby and boxing to actual girls fighting (eg. a bunch of drunken scrags belting each other in a pub).

Female violence definitely exists and is probably just as alcohol-fuelled as male violence.

James1 says:

10:08am | 08/02/11

You should write one Erick, and send it to Penbo.

Wilma J Craig says:

10:12am | 08/02/11

You are so right, Erick!
The “Say No to Violence Against Women” campaign, contrary to George’s claim, is an annual event. The last one was either late 2010 or early 2011. They even have what they call Male Ambassadors to this blatantly sexist, gender-biased campaign. One most recent one was a doctor of some sort - I have forgotten his name - he, in a very dismissive & insulting way acknowledged that women were capable of violence against men but it was almost as an aside, so unimportant & rare that he would not waste his time talking about it!
Women do commit violence against men - just as men do against women
There is, however, a difference between the usual, but not always, types of violence.
Men, usully but not always, inflict actual physical violence against their women partners. Violence which results in bruising, lacerations, broken limbs, internal injuries - most of which over time heal. Yes, deaths have occurred.
All Domestic Violence is to be deplored by all people no matter who is dishing it out.
Women, again usually but not always, inflict a different type of violence against their male partners. In many ways this violence is more subtle and does life-long damage. Damage which has resulted in their victims committing suicide.
That violence is Emotional/Mental abuse inflicted over many, many years. The constant putting down of men because of their earning ability, their performance in bed the list goes on & on. They don’t hesitate to put men down wherever they happen to be.  Constantly telling their men that “they are useless, hopeless, can never do anything right” etc.. I have lost count of the number of times I have heard shrill-voiced women verbally abusing their male companions at the supermarket over some petty mistake they have made in selecting a carton of milk or other insignificant item.
Some may ask: “Well why don’t they (men/women) simply leave?” Easier said than done! It may be hard to believe but when asked that very question many say “But, I Love him/her!”
The White Ribbon Campaign should be abolished & replaced with a new campaign which targets all domestic violence. A campaign which acknowledges that Domestic Violence is not a one-sided issue in which only women are the victims.
It won’t, of course, happen. The feminists will see to that for in a macabre way they wallow in portraying all women as being “Victims”. I am not, nor ever will be, a “Victim” as they would have me be.
The punch-up at the Big Day Out raises these questions:
“Why did someone not use their mobile phones to photograph/video the incident?”
“Why did someone not use the zoom on their cameras/phones not to get a close-up of the 3 cowards who attacked the little guy?”
Pratically everyone has a mobile phone today for they seem to have them wherever they go & the cowards would have no idea as to who photographed them.

RGG says:

10:30am | 08/02/11

ben: “I’m not a racist, but here are a whole bunch of offensive, sweeping generalisations about those damn ethnics.”

You gotta love “I’m not a racist, but” - it’s almost as good a signal of what’s coming next as “No offense, but”.

Disgusted says:

10:30am | 08/02/11

@Ben

No offense buddy but you are definitely being at least narrow minded about your comments. For one, you can’t even speak in proper english so I wonder how “detailed” your observations are. I am an “ethnic” who was born and bred in Australia and live in the Sutherland Shire, arguably with quite a large number of “true Aussies” and can tell you I see a pretty high amount of fights with no ethnics in them! Just the same as some ethnics will gang up on one person, I’ve seen Aussies in my area do the same, and have seen pretty disgusting fights and dog/king hitting at clubs in Cronulla. And it seems as though mullets and rats tails have become the fashion with Aussies too not just ethnics. This is the same old argument, every nationality has their own bunch of rotten eggs but in general it is the minority of society. Either way, this kind of violence sickens me and as someone who has a short-tempered brother who will most likely say something to one of these dimwits which will cause them to react, I dread coming home one day to hear he has been incapacitated!

Zeta says:

10:33am | 08/02/11

I’ll write it the day I meet a woman who can lay me out with a single punch to the back of my head. Actually Eric, I’ll write one now, from the future, omnicient perspective of it actually happening, and if a woman manages to give me a severe brain injury or kill me, the Punch can publish it post-humously.

In fact Eric, I promise that if a woman ever manages to kill me, you can read the eulogy at my Norse funeral before they set fire to my long boat.

Heather says:

10:37am | 08/02/11

As a woman I agree.  I have known men who have had some sort of violence against them by women.  And some of it is just horrible.  Feminists want to be equal, then us women should be held accountable by our actions also!  Not all women are ‘defending’ themselves.  Just as bad as men.

PD says:

11:14am | 08/02/11

I see you’ve added a ‘k’ to your name, Eric. All you need now is to drop the ‘c’, or instead replace the ‘k’ with ‘h’ to get the true Germanic flavour. You can work out why.

stephen says:

11:21am | 08/02/11

Women’s violence ?
I wish they would.
Earth women are too easy.

Sally says:

11:48am | 08/02/11

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that females are never violent. It’s just that male violence is significantly more pervasive and generally has more serious consequences than female violence. A woman who is beaten by a man is more likely to be hospitalised with serious injuries or die, for example. A woman is more likely to be raped by a man than vice versa. It’s not male bashing to state these facts. On the contrary, it doesn’t help men to pretend that male violence isn’t a serious problem or that they are at far more risk from women. It’s established fact that men are most at risk of violence from other men, not women. It’s not women mindlessly cracking men’s skulls onto concrete footpaths every weekend after all.

ben says:

01:16pm | 08/02/11

@ Disgusted

Ok beside the fact that i type most of my comments off my iphone, i dont tend to edit or give a second thought to how it looks, generally seeing as we are using the internet, which is a new form in communication in history meaning new standards of commen sense need to be applied i believe that if i spoke what i wrote and added “um’s or like’s” you would make sense of it but i doubt you could because the best you could only come up with is how poorly my English is! Anyway assuming you are ethnic because you didn’t use your real name, you can try defend them or call me narrow minded but you have no idea and i doubt you can speak because you come from the south were your ethnic issues have been solved a while!

Psych says:

02:18pm | 08/02/11

It’s about time these heros had their chance. If they want to get into a fight, give them a cage and a willing opponent - get them to sign disclaimer forms (like the ones at the hospital). If they want to kill each other, at least give them a place to do it where by-standers cannot be harmed or involved.

OR we should push all the overtly aggressive types into the military.. maybe then they’d see how pointless agression is - or maybe it would just slate their initial thirst for violence, whilst giving them an opportunity to use their aggression towards a “positive” end.

Unfortunately aggression is natural and as much as it is anti-social, is still a part of our base social fabric. Everything, every empire, company bla bla bla, is built on agression and aggressive expansion policy. So why are we so surprised to see it happening in the streets?

We’re more animal than most like to admit, learning to control your base emotions is key to surviving in this world.

Again, if they want to fight, let them, then they can be brain dead-heros that the next gen of brain dead’s can aspire to be like.

Jane says:

04:07pm | 08/02/11

@ Ben.

Try using some punctuation…might make it easier to read.

Not to mention the fact that most of the fights and guys I saw being aggressive at Big Day Out this year were Australian. Not ‘Italian/ Greek/ Muslim’ but Australian bogans. Who thought it was funny to run around with no shirt on, push people out of the way and be generally obnoxious drunks. So, how about you think instead of casting a massive racial stereotype.

JAX says:

04:21pm | 08/02/11

I’m sorry but the gist of the article i am getting is this is about 2 men hitting each other or one hitting another man, where did the guy hit a girl? most girls don’t have the strength to king hit anyone.

start a campaign erick.

the sad facts are there are more abusive men than women and alcohol does fuel most of it, lets ban alcohol and then the numbers should drop.

the reason that there is such campaigns is it is still an issue and there is more focus on it as the women lay charges, not too many men do, just like men do not come forward and claim rape

rod sexton says:

07:53pm | 08/02/11

Shut up George, you goose.

Shane says:

12:15pm | 09/02/11

Ah Erick, you’re annoying enough to provoke the most placid gal to give you an almighty punch.

You’re sad sack life and pathetic whinges do give me a great laugh though, so cheers.

TChong says:

06:27am | 08/02/11

If you have some problem controlling your physical aggresion, then thats an issue for you.
As for compulsory gaol time, you first , Mahhratty.

Flexo says:

07:16am | 08/02/11

I support compulsory jail time, if you are found guilty. However 1 month isn’t long enough. Try 5 to 10 years. With that sort of time, many people will think twice about drinking and bashing. For the kind hearted souls who think this is too severe, I hope neither you or your loved ones get a king hit brain injury that is a lifetime punishment. This society is too soft and there are too many naive hippies who believe in this whole rehabilitation crap. Wait till someone bashes your brains in and see if you are that forgiving.

TChong says:

07:50am | 08/02/11

Good on you officer Flexo , but you did actually read mahratty suggestion?
The compulsory gaol is for everyone, not just those found guilty.
“Too many niave hippies…, ”
“Hippies”? Flexo, you so funny.
Last week it was the reds, this week “hippies”.
Richard Nixon is still alive and well , in the whitehouse , isnt he Flexo?
I’ll bet you consider “The Green Berets"as a timely doco-drama.
Remember to keep on the alert for Reds under the beds, and Reefer Madness. Tin foil hat at the ready? Good.

Flexo says:

07:29am | 09/02/11

Hi Arbib…oops I mean TChong, nice try hiding behind the Asian name. Have a nice day!

Cyn says:

09:57am | 08/02/11

That’s actually a really good idea!! Perhaps the Australian Drug Foundation should fund this campaign..

Voxpop says:

10:02am | 08/02/11

Ha that would just end up being a brag wall - they like the notoriety, think they’re bad ass gangstas…

Sherekahn says:

10:50am | 08/02/11

David Penberthy are you telling us that your mate does not have a modern mobile phone with photo abilities?  And that he did not take photos of the action to pass on to Police?
Penbo I worry about you!

David Penberthy are you telling us that your mate does not have a modern mobile phone with photo abilities?  And that he did not take photos of the action to pass on to Police?
Penbo I worry about you!
But, then I worry about Australia and politicians like the Liberals who do not support a miserly ‘Levy’ to help their fellow Australians.
Has ‘Fortescue Mining’ billionaire ‘Twiggy Forest’ rattled his loose change yet?

Mayday says:

09:01am | 08/02/11

Good point Peter, the AHA self interest group are no better than the mafia paying off government to sustain their profits at any cost.

Tommy says:

09:48am | 08/02/11

Strongly believe Coles/Woolworths and parents are to blame, not AHA. It’s been a lot of years since I’ve seen a fight in a pub, but as for seeing them or hearing about them on the street… all the time! Sickeningly often! And it’s usually never pub patrons, more-so mid-teens with a sole agenda of intimidating and starting fights outside venues/pubs. Blame parents and where they get theor booze from… Coles/Woolworths.

TChong says:

07:31am | 08/02/11

You remember the Goodies episode about Seth Efricar ?
Tim and Graham were   awake to the nasty little Bills and jockeys, so they introduced “Apart -Height”.
“Big Uns “and “LittleUns”.
Funny stuff.

hermano says:

08:01am | 08/02/11

I’m a small bloke, never been in a fight.  And I can run faster than most big blokes too.  Maybe that’s why small blokes live longer…
I’m (quite frankly) shit scared of aggressive and overbearing males, and don’t have any in my circle of friends.  But that’s just me, I guess: some guys love to be associated with thugs and bullies.

Brett says:

09:00am | 08/02/11

Gregg - Its little blokes with small mans syndrome. Being tall, I’ve dealt with a few in my time as they like to target me. Little guys like Hermano are all good, they don’t have the insecurity and aggresion. My ex bro in law had little man syndrome. I even had a CEO with little man syndrome. They feel the need to prove they are really bigger than everyone else.

Brax says:

10:05am | 08/02/11

True Brett, there are some little blokes with that syndrome… but then there are a lot of us out there who only wish we were taller at events like concerts so we could see better. I’ve seen plenty of heavy weights & tall guys going at it so it’s more a brain thing than a size thing I reckon.

Gregg says:

10:30am | 08/02/11

@ Brett,
Yes, I always remember as young guy just starting out in the workforce, I had this superintendent fellow actually pulling over a box to stand on to talk to me, though he was doing it more in jest and was quite a reasonable bloke as far as I was concerned though he could have well been a little hitler to others.
And then back to the dogs, there was a little one who loved to attach herself to our male, he being her tall dark and handsome knight and he his female mate were always very protective of her.

Tator says:

12:19pm | 08/02/11

As a 6 ft 1 and built like a brick outhouse copper (used to be, not anymore as 3 knee operations and a stuffed back in the last 10 years have done no improvements to my waistline) whilst walking the beat in the Adelaide CBD including area’s such as Hindley Street, these comments on small mans syndrome reminded me of the only time I have ever been punched in 22 years of policing.  The offender was actually a jockey who was pissed and aggro and whilst in the backseat after he was arrested, tried to king hit me , but broke his hand on my forehead instead of hurting me.  Rather than just fighting with him as my partner was no help in such a confined space, I dropped him onto the seat and basically sat on him until backup arrived.  Pity I didn’t go “giddyap”

Miles says:

08:49am | 08/02/11

Dirtier and dirtier indeed.  Even this article highlights that point.  It started as a one-on-one and then lead to a three-on-one where a guy is pinned down and can’t even defend himself.  Its just the stuff of pure cowards - cowards who need to act as a pack as they are individually weak, cowards that keep going when someone is down (or evn unconscious), and who hit from behind.  Yeah, real tough guy stuff that is…

Matt says:

09:42am | 08/02/11

Any evidence of that?

I think we have a tendency to be convinced the world is getting worse without any evidence to support it whatsover. In fact, in my understanding, the evidence suggests the opposite - with decreasing crime rates over the last 20 years.

Not saying it’s not an issue, but trying to say that it’s probably not an issue that is getting worse - rather just a lingering one.

We can’t pretend that violence against eachother hasn’t been a problem for the last 4000 years…

Budz says:

10:30am | 08/02/11

I think you’re right Matt, the world is getting more civilized. If the things that happened in the past had the same media coverage they did now, I think everyone would be disgusted.

For a lot of these people that are violet (men and women) it’s a case of not being able to channel their anger and frustration about their own lives in a more constructive manner.

Roja says:

01:03pm | 08/02/11

I’m with you Matt, the stats do say that violent crime is actually increasing - however that is “reported” violent crime.  Back in the 70’s and 80’s punch ups at pubs were the standard - and in no way were they all “fair” as the nostalgics would have you believe - people didn’t report them to the police. 

I grew up in the country where I was beaten up at age 16 (while drunk, by a coward), while I have never once been in a fight in Adelaide in the 20 years living here and drinking, even on our infamous Hindley St. 

That said last year I saw one of these cowards king hit a guy on Hindley who was out like a light before his head hit the bitchumen, the thug like in Penbo’s story ran quicker than Usain Bolt to ensure he would get away with it.  Fifteen minutes of First Aid & ten minutes of convincing his idiot mates later, they took him to the hospital.  Of course this was happening in 1990 when I arrived here - except typically it was bouncers that were inflicting the savage cowardly beatings, although tighter laws mean they are no longer employed and are probably freelance thugs.

If you ask me, nothing has changed except the media is a lot worse now than it was then.  They are now heavily addicted to sensationalism and need treatment.

Tim says:

08:38am | 08/02/11

Yeah,
how dare young people enjoy themselves at festivals.
They should all be at home tending to their parents’ wants or reading books at the library.

Michael says:

08:59am | 08/02/11

Hit the road JACK, and don’t you come back.

99.9% of people in that rabble are having a ball and doing it in a harmless way. What do you suggest they be doing, sitting down to a nice game of chess in the park? As for the performers being ratbags, well their rock stars, they’re supposed to be ratbags. I suggest you get off the internet and go visit that place called 2011.

In response to Penbo’s article, here’s a little anecdote: I was once in Adelaide for the Fringe Festival. My girlfriend and I were walking back to our hotel after a great night of comedy and fringe fun. We were a little bit tipsy and in good spirits. We had been talking to another couple from Melbourne on the way back and decided to get a photo of our new friends, so I pulled out the camera. My girlfriend jumped in the shot and I made a joke about how she’s too ugly and shouldn’t be in it (or something liek that). She of course told me to shut up. Just as she did a group of about six 18-20 yr old guys were walking behind me (I was oblivious to them at this point) and all I heard is “what did you say, bitch?”. I’m assuming in their little walnut brains they assumed she was telling them to shut up. At that point I turned around to cop a fist straight into the bridge of my nose. They were aiming for the back of my head (I still wonder to this day if it was a good thing I turned around or not). The last thing I saw before I blacked out was the concrete of Rundle Mall meeting my face. At least they were man enough to take my girlfriend’s apparent insult out on her boyfriend and not her.
That experience was bad enough. What was worse was the chain of events that followed…
My girlfriend (who I found out that day has more balls then the sort of guys who bash people unawares) ran off after them threatening to castrate them. Meanwhile, I was picking myself up off the floor and trying to work out what all the red around me was.
No-one stopped to help.
When I got myself up and realised what had happpened all I could think was I had to get to my girlfriend before they beat her too. So I ran up the mall after her, blood pouring all over me.
By this time a good sized crowd had gathered around gawking. I can only assume they thought we were both insane, on drugs or both since they hadn’t seen the original altercation.
The guys had run off by now after pushing my girlfriend to the ground.
People still did nothing.
Finally, a lovely young girl who couldn’t be any older than 18 led us to the local police station, which was just across the road, so we could file a report and ask about medical attention (we were tourists and had no idea where the hospital was).
The police told us they couldn’t help because they were too busy. They also got mad that I was dripping blood on the floor. We waited to file a report anyway while my girlfriend did her best to stem the flow of blood from my nose with tissues (no first aid was offered at police station, let alone sympathy).
We were debating whether to go to a hospital or not. The police hadn’t even bothered to tell us where it was and I could tell they just wanted us gone. Nearly two hours had gone by now and after realising my nose wasn’t broken and the blood had stopped, we tried one last time to file a report at the station and were dismissed with a ‘‘you still bloody here?’’.

Pissed off, sore, and tired we trudged back to our hotel so I could have a shower and assess the damage in the morning, and visit the hospital then if need be.

I was lucky. After a week or so my face had healed completely. I came out of it relatively unscarred, other than emotionally and with a slight distrust of Adelaide that I just can’t shake (this has never happened to me in Melbourne despite going out regularly, catching midnight trains, working graveyard hospo shifts in St Kilda etc).

What stings the most about the experience was, as Penbo points out, the complacency among other people there and the police; the acceptance that vicious violence is a regular part of a weekend in the city. Hell, sometimes it’s the entertainment.

Events like the Big Day Out, for the most part, are full of fun-loving, happy people who are their for the music. It’s the bogans that come for the beer, not the tunes, that end up doing the sort of thing that your friend endured. Unfortuantely, the BDO has become more about the ‘‘event’’ then the music. It’s enough just to say you went, never mind if you spent the whole thing at the bar and only came out to see the token metal band, bash some heads than go back indoors to throw back more $12 cans of Bundy.

Markus says:

09:58am | 08/02/11

@Michael, that you referred to it as the ‘token’ metal band is the problem.
In my experience the violence at music festivals started with the decline of the metal bands and the increase in shite dance acts (and the idiot fans that accompanied).

Brax says:

09:59am | 08/02/11

Bitter old man… a picture doesn’t always tell a story. I’ve been to plenty of festivals in my 40 odd years… still go… never seen a fight at one of them. As for the performers being ratbags….I just don’t know where to start with that comment… Don’t you like music?
I’d also like to say to an earlier comment, of any of the fights I’ve seen & having been king hit once as a “smaller” of societies men, it’s always the big tough buffed guys who are doing the brawling….  to many steroids perhaps?

Michael says:

10:39am | 08/02/11

@Markus You’re right. I shouldn’t have singled out one style of music. It was more the type that sit in the bar from 11-7 that I was referring to. Usually they have no idea about the bands even playing.

Probably the most well-behaved, well-organised and generally happy festivals I’ve been to recently was Soundwave 2010 (with Faith No More etc). And yes, that was basically a metal festival. The difference with Soundwave was that it catered to a particular style of music so everyone that went was there for the bands, not for the party. BDO has become so big that it attracts all sub-cultures including the bogans who like to bust heads. BDO is to music festivals what Nova is to radio.

Tika says:

10:42am | 08/02/11

Dance acts to blame? I think not! Dance music listeners are all too loved-up on E’s to fight.

Jps says:

11:56am | 08/02/11

the best run and most layed back festivals i have ever been to have been metal festivals in Europe, Graspop metal meeting and Belgium, Wacken in Germany .... summer breeze ... the list goes on, they are chilled because most of the people there are there for the music not the party, and lets face it, most metal fans and just that FANS, geeks, we go out, collect the CDs buy the merch, and follow the bands, most BDO crowds don’t really care about the music!

Kim says:

12:44pm | 08/02/11

Michael,  please don’t let the actions of a minority tarnish your opinion of Adelaide - a great place to work and play.  I’m sorry you were treated so badly,  both by the thugs and the overworked/underpaid police, but don’t let that change what I’m sure was otherwise a great trip to the festivals Adelaide has to offer.
1 year ago, my husband was assaulted at a sporting event whilst on our anniversary holiday in Sydney.  We had a horrible time - an ambulance ride to a hospital, many hours waiting, police statements, a trip back to Sydney to give evidence in court against the idiot who hit my husband etc…
I won’t let that stop me from visiting Sydney again, as I know not everyone there is like that.

Miles says:

08:51am | 08/02/11

Couldn’t agree with you more Dew Point!

Shifter says:

10:01am | 08/02/11

‘painful and exemplary’

Bring back the stocks?

Kevin Martin says:

07:20am | 09/02/11

i suggest a simple punitive system which falls into line with modern technology. What i suggest wiill upset some straight away but i urge them to read on.  As we are all aware, forensic science has made quantum leaps in recent times and continues to do so. Agreed….  Okay so bring back the death penalty with a 5 year stint on death row which enables their defence to use such technology to clear their client.  During this time the inmate is to receive maximum rehabilitation should he\she be exonerated.  The simple fact of knowing that there are consequences has an alarming effect.  In my journey of life ,  have lived and worked in many different countries. I am currently living in China and have been for the past 6 years. As mentioned ,I am well travelled and feel qualified to comment. I have never felt safer in any other country, more importantly, the foreign women share this opinion also.  They do not muck around here, they will punish you and find out the facts later. Yes mistakes are made, but that is a universal problem. When you consider the population differences between say Australia to China and then compare violent crime , you have to admit that people dont want to die so they think about it.  I discuss this with my chinese colleagues, we agree that China is full of trickery cons and scams, they will trick you but never bash you why, self explanitory. Its not the pressures, honestly, these kids have more than we ever dream about. A university degree is mandatory for a job at Macdonalds here because of said population and family honour.  That said , I am not suggesting we go down that path but we should realise the benefits of a community that is truely aware of their actions and resulting consequences.

Brett says:

09:17am | 08/02/11

They weren’t white… pretty simple in Cronulla yeah?
Or they chatted up one of the local girls.
Or they touched a life saver.

Shirelings don’t tolerate either of those three and they will gang up on people like true heroes… or cowards.

Do you find it odd that the guy refused treatment? With a broken jaw! Who does that?

Budz says:

10:34am | 08/02/11

Id say they refused to be treated so they could go and get a gun ASAP and get revenge the typical deadsh!t way.

Father says:

09:07am | 08/02/11

What a stupid comment. This sort of violence has nothing to do with nationalism.

Step Son says:

12:52pm | 08/02/11

of course it does.  This is the new Australian Way of life

Shifter says:

10:21am | 08/02/11

“It used to be an indi music thing”

1994 (3rd year) Headliners:

Soundgarden
Smashing Pumpkins
Primus
The Ramones
Bjork

A selection of other acts:

Def Fx
Shihad
TISM
Severed Heads
Tumbleweed

Real indi there.

No more 4 me says:

12:29pm | 08/02/11

Livid was a good festival and full of happy people, but the only BDO I went to was scary - too many shirtless, drunk, aggressive boys.

Di says:

07:34pm | 08/02/11

Nostalgia is nice, but this kind of behaviour happened back in the day too. I was sexually assaulted (groped repeatedly) by about 5 men standing behind me in the moshpit at an indie festival in the early 90’s. I believe there were multiple reports of sexual assault even at Woodstock, supposedly the festival of ‘peace and love’. I think the problem stems largely from some men’s warped ideas about ‘masculinity’, which ufornunately have existed for centuries. Until these men are ‘re-programmed’ somehow, the problem will persist, even at nice, friendly indie festivals.

Stephy says:

09:06am | 08/02/11

I live 5 mins away from the top and medium security prisons of Victoria. (Same prison that Carl Williams was killed at). Trust me, it’s not exactly urbanised out here.

Burko says:

09:23am | 08/02/11

Aw, Ive graded in three different Martial Arts and I would say I’m non-violent. Like you, the people Ive sparred against were willing participants, they knew what was coming, unlike a king hit. Absolutley foul behavior the king hit is. One of my friends was king hit waiting for the elevator at an almost suburban train station about 2 weeks ago. A drunk f*%$wit walked out of the elevator and literally smashed him in the face causing his head to crash into the footpath, putting him in a coma. He had already suffered a serious brain injury in a car accident a few years ago. The Police caught him and has been remanded without bail. I hope you do some very, very hard time for Drew’s sake.

braunman says:

09:40am | 08/02/11

Martial arts are good training when it comes to protecting yourself and friends. Instills discipline, respect ect. The one I do has a strong focus on defending yourself against drunken street idiots. Just out of interest how many other people who learn martial arts here get taught the various laws regarding self defense?

Franq Spencer says:

09:43am | 08/02/11

Surely the difference aw is that when you fight someone you are actually facing them. These clowns run up behind someone, whack them in the back of the scone - the victim never sees it coming. I’m only 34 but when I was younger the ‘rule’ was don’t use weapons and don’t hit anyone whilst their back is turned.

Now it seems to me that groups of cranky kids like the thrill of bashing someone senseless, but are so wussy they don’t want to get hurt themselves.

JB says:

12:27pm | 08/02/11

Braunman…which martial art do you do? I am interested for myself and family.

Stephy says:

12:32pm | 08/02/11

Braunman, I’m not sure about here, but my husband trained in New Zealand and reached the rank of second degree black belt in Shaolin Kempo. He said one of the first things you learn is to back away from a fight, try to negotiate a peaceful outcome, and if that fails then disable them to stop them hurting others. Nowhere in his art is it taught that fighting comes first and as a first resort. In fact, when I was walking with my sister one night in the city and a carful of young fellas pulled up beside us, shouting to “come for a ride” I shouted back at them to f**k off, to which they got angry and drove off. When I told my husband, he repeated what I wrote above and swore he wasn’t letting me out on my own again. (To which he did, same thing happened again, except after driving off they threw a golf ball at me, which I picked up and hurled back. The fight-or-flight instinct is strong in this one, and fight came instinctually).

Of course, he was also taught to disarm armed opponents, but I think that’s standard training.

braunman says:

02:01pm | 08/02/11

@JB

The style I do is Zen Do Kai, founded by Bob Jones back in the 70s. It’s one of those hybrid styles that borrows from a lot of others with the attitude “if it works, use it”, so there’s a large emphasis on practicality over flashy moves. Go to http://www.bobjonesmartialarts.com.au/training_programs/ZDK/zendokai.htm for an overview. You may have to google Zen Do Kai if you want to find a club near you as this website is a bit broken. Good luck to you!

@Stephy

A peaceful outcome is definately preferable! Apparently the law is a bit strange when it comes to self defense and people who know martial arts. I must say I can’t give legal advice as I’m not a lawyer but there are several key things you can keep in mind when you’re defending yourself:

1. Provocation cannot be used as a defense if you attack someone, which is why people looking for fights try to goad you so you strike first.

2. Make it perfectly clear to anyone watching that you’re the one being attacked. Easy to do by loudly stating things like “Calm down!”, “Leave me alone!” or the classic “Help Help I’m being attacked!”

3. Don’t use more force than your attacker is using. This one depends on the situation (more than one attacker, they have a weapon ect).

4. If you get taken in for questioning, don’t tell the cops anything until you’ve spoken to your lawyer. That way you don’t make a statement which will get taken out of context in court.

Above this it all gets very complicated! Wow that turned out longer than I intended.

Bowie says:

12:56pm | 08/02/11

We need a like button so I can like this comment

David C says:

09:44am | 08/02/11

I dont agree with randoms dont happen. at the last BDO my son was walking though one of the tents when he felt a smack in the face. He turned around to see 2 guys high fiving each other. Totally unprvoked, random event. And anecdotaly it appears to be happening more and more.
I am not going to say it happens all the time but it is happening.

Richie Benaud says:

10:02am | 08/02/11

I would legislate against the high-five. It’s just some seppo bullshit introduced by the West indies cricket team. The best way to deal with people is the old fashioned hand-shake, or bit of a kiss, a lick, or even a dry root.

Matt says:

10:04am | 08/02/11

I was in my first fight on George Street in Sydney. I was 13, and was swarmed by a bunch of kids my age hitting me in the head (I’d guess there were 6 or 7 of them). A middle age man pushed the kids off me, giving me a moment to run down the street away from them. I’d never met the kids before.

Years later I was walking down George street at night eating a kebab. Two guys grabbed my friend and slammed him to the wall whilst hitting him. The third started punching me in the head continuously, I’d never met them before. My friend broke free, we ran, jumped the fence to a construction yard and hid in a dumpster.

I went to a house party when I was a teenager. One of my friends drank too much and passed out on the floor. Some gatecrashers came in and kicked him in the head with full force. He was hospitalised, but was luckily only a broken jaw and missing teeth.

I was pretty badly beaten in darling harbour. Four guys were robbing my friend and I, and I was unwilling to hand over all my possessions. Maybe that was my ‘fault’, and I should have happily given over my hard earned possessions. But I wouldn’t say that was ‘asking for a fight’. It took about a week and a half for the swelling in my face to go down.

There have also been at least another half dozen times when someone has tried to rob me which didn’t end in violence. They either didn’t have the minerals to dig in when I refused to hand over my cash, or it was just a scuffle that was hardly worth the mention.

Thank you for your accusation that I started all these fights. I would like to suggest that perhaps you’ve been lucky, or I’ve been unlucky. I think I probably attracted a lot of it by just generally being a troubled teenager. You’re probably more likely to pick a fight with a depressed kid with a scowl on his face than a bright and bubbly type. But that is not the same as ‘asking for a fight’. It’s not very fair to blame the kid for being depressed either.

Syl says:

10:24am | 08/02/11

There is a big difference between using guns and fists.

So not really like America at all….

majid says:

04:09pm | 08/02/11

Syl
You have to learn how to read metaphors… Both, Guns and fists represent violence and both do kill!!!

Shifter says:

11:04am | 08/02/11

I always thought self-preservation, or ‘not losing’ would come before honour in battle.

MsRAMHY says:

10:51am | 08/02/11

Really? You think the issue is that we don’t fight enough? How about we teach our children to channel their frustrations and anger instead of how to punch.
As a teenage girl I was king hit in the middle of a classroom for refusing to change seats with another girl! I don’t think she did this because she hadn’t been allowed to fight for her 15 years previous.
I was threatened with violence by a bunch of girls at an all night cinema event because I was silly enough to stand up for a group of young girls who were being bullied. Did they want to hit me because they had not been allowed to fight previously?
As a young adult I struggled with my own anger and frustrations and frequently took it out on inanimate objects. Not until I learnt how to channel and understand my feelings did these lashing outs subside.
Sadly I know of a young guy who never saw his 21st Birthday due to One Punch! He was king hit by his own team mate.
Worried about your kids and their tendancy to fight and disregard the dangers? - Visit RIP Todd Parnell on Facebook. Read the ongoing anguish by this young superstar’s family and friends who are still struggling daily to come to terms with his senseless death.

Kate says:

11:35am | 08/02/11

I like this idea.

“Tossers with small penises hit”?

mary says:

01:36pm | 08/02/11

Cowards punch by some tosser .. sounds good to me.

majid says:

04:24pm | 08/02/11

“Only Losers Punch”

SteveO says:

10:39am | 08/02/11

Yes, I’ve said it a thousand times, National Service is the answer! Commit crimes, injure people, bludge off society too long = Drafted into the Army. Once you’re in play around, disobey directions, go AWOL = get shot when you go on your tour in Afghanistan. End result = LEARN RESPECT & DISIPLINE

BK says:

11:36am | 08/02/11

Great thinking SteveO. People in the armed services never get blind drunk or get into fights.

The Other SteveO says:

01:56pm | 08/02/11

@ SteveO

Thanks for pinching my name.

Your spelling needs some “discipline” too.

BK is right.

SteveO says:

04:09pm | 08/02/11

Sorry other SteveO, I didn’t realise you owned the monopoly on the name ‘Steve’, you’ll have to take that one up with my parents…

As for people in the armed forces getting into fights, they may still do so but I’ll bet they would be less likely to ‘cowards punch’ a complete stranger in the back of the head for no reason. Might not be the perfect answer but its a bloody good one in my opinion.

As for the spelling mistake… these things happen, you’ve never made one??

Steve says:

10:49am | 08/02/11

Very, very true.

We shirk from making young people responsible for their actions (or giving them responsiblity) until quite late because partents want to delay the end of childhood.

Unfortunately it just delays adulthood - realising your actions have consequences.

Good samaratan says:

05:34pm | 08/02/11

Yeah but nobody’s perfect!

Bitten says:

07:33pm | 08/02/11

Mmmm…irony.

braunman says:

10:47am | 08/02/11

First of all I would like to point out that rock and/or roll, the devil’s music, is responsible for the problems of today. That Elvis person shaking his hips turns people into evil communists with no morals! </hyperbole>

Secondly I’m also from Perth and have been known to go clubbing occasionally. Northbridge does have lots of security and lots of police running around, but other than that I agree with you. If you’ve ever gone clubbing in Rockingham you’ll find it populated entirely by aggressive drunk idiots trying to start fights. It’s ignored because of all the media attention on Northbridge despite it’s lack of cops and trained bouncers.

Gamer says:

12:53pm | 08/02/11

I’ve noticed that whenever something to do with violence comes up, someone always blames video games. We gamers are not violent people. Sure there are games that are violent, but the vast majority of us can tell the difference between a game and real life.

Simply put, violent video games don’t make people violent, people with the propensity towards violent actions are drawn to violent video games.

Wayne Kerr says:

12:57pm | 08/02/11

I hate to say this but I think to a degree violent movies etc have some part to play. I am not saying they incite violence, I’m saying that kids see a movie where the fight goes on for 10 minutes, the antagonists are hit with everything, glass, fists, metal objects but they always manage to get back up and continue fighting. This gives kids this unrealistic view that if they punch someone they’ll go down but they won’t be really hurt. Films also try and outdo the prevuious one so violence seems to be geting more graphic in film.

That I think is the crux, it appears a lot of people nowdays don’t realise just how dangerous a single punch can actually be.

Will says:

11:47am | 08/02/11

UFC has nothing to do with this. Thugs brawling and using dirty tactics is NOT what the sport of MMA is about or what it represents.

Nathan says:

11:17am | 08/02/11

It’s hard to understand the do nothing attitude. Some years ago, I was fly kicked (yeah, fly kicked), while waiting at a busy tram stop on Swanston St in Melbourne at about 7pm. (The guy wasn’t happy when I wouldn’t give him 20c for a phone call). Not one person also waiting at the stop so much as moved. Even after the idiot moved on, no one asked me if I was ok. I think I was more taken back by the response than the actual attack.

Zeta says:

11:13am | 08/02/11

I was at the Sydney BDO and was amazed by the number of people wearing ear plugs. I stood next to them talking about them when ever I saw them. It’s a concert, you’re meant to get some kind of injury. I was at the front of the mosh pit during the Rammstein set and singed my eyebrows and was later violently ill from a bad dagwood dog. My hearing was shot for days. A great time was had by all.

You obviously weren’t having enough fun.

PD says:

11:19am | 08/02/11

That’s funny, Zeta, but tinnitus ain’t, and there’s no cure.

Kika says:

11:58am | 08/02/11

No way! No concert is loud enough anymore. Then again I’ve got constant ringing in my ears… it never stops! Hahaha.
My headphones are always much louder than any concert these days.

Stephy says:

01:06pm | 08/02/11

If I ever go in to buy shares, I’m totally buying some in a hearing aid company. They’re gonna be real valuable in a couple of years.

Zeta, I wish I’d been there at the Rammstein concert. That would be an experience and a half!

Zeta says:

02:10pm | 08/02/11

SORRY I CAN’T HEAR YOU OVER THE SOUND OF HOW AWESOME I AM

Stephy says:

01:09pm | 08/02/11

Not a bad idea, except in the end “Coward” will become just another meaningless word, no longer an insult… like thug.

Terry Pratchett quote: The pen is mightier than the sword, if it’s a very short sword and a very sharp pen.

Shifter says:

01:04pm | 08/02/11

If the promoters of these event didn’t supply alcohol… generally these events wouldn’t happen. It’s a subsidy on paying the appearance fees of the artists involved which keeps ticket prices (generally) down, for versions of down that are pretty bloody expensive as it is.

BK says:

01:18pm | 09/02/11

The violence happens, but it is reciprocal.

Gamer says:

02:16pm | 08/02/11

I doubt there is a link between cage fighting, etc and assaults talked about here beyond people prone to violence being drawn to these activities, similar to video games. a sizable percentage of the population either watch mixed martial arts contests, or train in some form of fighting technique, most don’t go around at 3am punching people in the back of the head.

I also don’t think you know much about Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu to add it to the list. Pure Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu focuses on holds, submissions and grappling, not striking the opponent.

mitch says:

02:32pm | 08/02/11

i dont believe any martial art focuses on smashing or kicking someones face whilst they’re knocked out on the floor. if someone is barbaric by nature then they will be drawn (like gamer stated) to entertainment that reflects such barbaric acts (violent video games, movies or sports). ive played FPS and other games focused around killing but ive never been involved in a fight, so it comes down to the type of person. if you have respect for yourself and the people around you then i doubt you will want to be hitting people in the back of the head.

Will says:

02:44pm | 08/02/11

well maybe you should have read past comments. thats absurd what you wrote there, you’re very illinformed and ignorant to what MMA is.
@Gamer yeah you are right, what you see on the street is suckerpunching (dont know why they call it a king hit). You dont see anyone pulling guard and using their BJJ.

wolf says:

04:38pm | 08/02/11

I’m with you Hansy - I’ve lost count of the number of times I read about someone lying in coma as a result of an insult they didn’t see coming.
When will the courts finally take action at these hoodlums throwing around impudence and mockery with no provocation or thought of the lasting consequences it can have on their victims.
Oh wait…

Laura says:

02:30pm | 09/02/11

So sorry for the loss of your son. x