The biggest problem for the AFL in getting a successful presence in Western Sydney won’t be the choice of Kevin Sheedy as coach, it won’t be the home ground or sponsorship and isn’t even the popularity of rugby league as such.

Parramatta Eels fans at their Grand Final parade this year.

No, the largest hurdle for the AFL in setting up shop in Western Sydney is this: Australian Football is still predominantly a white Anglo/Celtic sport with a culture that doesn’t look anything like Western Sydney.

Right now the AFL doesn’t even reflect the ethnic make-up of its own Melbourne heartland, so how does it expect to sell itself to kids and their parents in the most ethnically diverse part of Australia?

Let me first address the most obvious problem with this argument - that of the amount of aboriginal people who support and play AFL

It’s amazing the amount of back patting the AFL gives itself on this issue. The AFL can draw on a highly enthusiastic population of talented young athletes gagging at the bit to play aussie rules football whenever they can. Are we supposed to be awarding the AFL a Nobel Peace Prize for recruiting these guys?

Secondly, despite AFL PR on the issue the presence of top flight indigenous footballers is not unique to Australian football, it’s just less self-conscious in league.

Have a look at the NRL’s indigenous all stars team announced recently. Most are in or could waltz into the current Kangaroos squad, they include: Matthew Bowen, Wendell Sailor, Justin Hodges, Greg Inglis, Nathan Merritt, Scott Prince, Johnathan Thurston, Carl Webb and Sam Thaiday.

Not to mention the fact that Arthur Beetson became the first Aboriginal to captain Australia in any sport when he was made Kangaroos captain in 1973.

So let’s just accept that both sports have a large, enthusiastic and talented base of indigenous players.

But go beyond the indigenous presence in AFL you’re pretty hard pressed to find anyone who doesn’t look at sound like they grew up on something called “tea” which consisted of meat, three veg and Hey Hey It’s Saturday.

Yes there’s a smattering of Italians, Ron Barassi the most famous, and some Greek and well as from the former Yugoslavia, Koutoufides and Didak for example, but given we’re talking about Melbourne – a city only second to Sydney as a destination of immigrants - it’s pretty slim pickings. This is also a game that has vastly greater media saturation in Melbourne during the football season than NRL has in Sydney.

Last week The Age ran a feature on the possibility of Sudanese born Majak Daw being picked in the AFL draft, we are told that as a result “the game could change forever.” It was one of those “look how the Aussie Rules is for every Australian” kinda piece which the AFL loves.

While I only hope that Majak does get a run somewhere next year the question is why is it such a big deal that the AFL might have an African born player? The answer is because it’s never happened before despite Melbourne being a city with a lot of young African born men seemingly perfectly built for the game.

Rugby Union had an African born player not too long ago as well. He was born in Zambia, was Australian captain and became the most capped Wallaby in history. You might have heard of George Musarura Gregan.

In this instance I’m also reminded of the triumphant fan fair around the debut of the first devout Muslim to ever play AFL in 2007. How diverse this code has become that we can give this young Lebanese kid a go was the upshot.

It was interesting that this was almost ten years after Canterbury Bulldogs legend Hazem El Masri made his first grade debut and who last year retired as the highest point scorer the history of the National Rugby League.

As a Lebanese devout Muslim El Masri represents a significant minority of Western Sydney’s actual population and that’s reflected in the fan base - it’s a hell of a thing to go to a Bulldogs and Parramatta game and see 15-year-old girls screaming in their hijabs from the sideline. Right now the leading hooker in the game is the Wests’ Tigers Lebanese Aussie Robbie Farah.

The amount of Polynesian and other Pacific islander players in Rugby League has changed the game, flooding the ranks of teams at elite and junior levels.

To play Rugby Union and League is basically the cultural norm for a lot of Polynesians, helped by the fact that physically they’re built for it, but it’s also significant as youngster they feel included in the sport and watch blokes like them week after week on the park.

Look at Parramatta’s biggest superstars this year: Jarryd Hayne and Fuifui Moimoi both of islander descent and represent an area where a lot Polynesians and other islanders actually live.

And this is the point with Western Sydney. It is an area in which - according to 2006 census data - 33.1% of its population were born overseas and Greater Western Sydney has the fastest rate of people born overseas in all of Sydney. 
It goes without saying that any elite football club needs the support of these people, but how does the AFL propose to get either grassroots or club support from people who have no culture of the game and don’t see people like them anywhere in it?

Not that I’m pretending the NRL is some kind of racism free UNESCO approved model of ethnic harmony, but neither are the Western suburbs of Sydney. At the very least league has the ability to give Anglos, Lebanese, Islanders and the rest a banner of some kind to march under together. 

Nor does every kid in the West end up playing rugby league or union. For many neither rugby code holds much attraction and flock to soccer, but this happens in Melbourne as well, and arguably to a greater extent.

The AFL is aware of this and is already trying to get across it. This is a different kind of demographic make-up than the Swans’ supporters

At the launch of the GWS bid in August the AFL screened a montage of an Indian-Aussie kid who played Aussie Rules in West Sydney and dreamed of playing for the West Sydney team. There’s also talk from AFL boss Andrew Demetriou of setting up consultations with community groups in the area on how they want to work with the club.

With the slickness of AFL PR speak I can’t work out whether they’re setting up a football club or running a Greens’ candidate in the lower house, but it seems they’re obviously hoping to poach a following for the sport from first and second generation immigrant kids in the West. There was even a rumour than Jarryd Hayne had been approached by the new GWS franchise to switch codes.

All this makes perfect sense of course, but perhaps the AFL should think about its limited success in getting immigrant kids in its own backyard to play and support the game before going fully sick on Western Sydney. 

The Eels are indeed a fully sick squadron

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102 comments

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    • John says:

      10:05am | 23/03/10

      Build it and they will come! Australian Football is for all.

    • Michael C says:

      09:38am | 23/03/10

      Seems to me it’s far, far easier for the NRL to pick up a kid from a country like Namibia where they play Rugby Union…....Rugby League has had a parasitic relationship to Union for quite some time.  Big deal then.

      Australian Football is far, far harder for new comers to this country to adopt and excel at than it is for someone familiar with Union to adopt and adapt to League.

      This author is completely off the mark.

      At any rate - great TV a couple of weeks back was to watch the Tiwi Islands Grand Final on the Sunday and the NTFL GF on the Saturday (Tiwi Bombers vs St Marys).

      Anything but a ‘white boys’ game.

    • Steve of Sydney AFL/NRL fan says:

      11:04pm | 01/03/10

      This is quite possibly the worst article ive ever read
      to compare majak daw (a sudanese refugee) to someone like george gregan (half australian who immigrated here when he was 1) is ridiculous
      i love league and aussie rules and theres room for both in west sydney.
      And to say that AFL is a white dominated sport is again, just wrong, 15% of players are indeginous. Plus there are many players of non anglo decent just as there are many non anglos in the NRL.

      There doesnt need to be this war between both codes

    • A Kiwi AFL fan says:

      10:58pm | 24/11/09

      Regarding Pacific Islanders and the AFL, it’s worth noting that the national sport of Nauru is in fact Aussie Rules football.  Another one of Shanahan’s arguments takes a tumble ...

    • NS Welshmen says:

      09:10pm | 24/11/09

      Gee, there is a lot of misinformation on this blog. I have been following the Swannies for over 25 years and the crowds are very ethnically diverse, not that that should matter.  There are even fans who watch the Swans games at the SCG wearing other codes team jumpers, no one cares. This game is for all Australians who want to watch it or even be given a chance to play as a kid.

      AFL for the record is also played Internationally, the recent 2009 EU Cup saw a record number of teams (15) competing for the right to be called European Champions and the winner was England if you’re interested. Final Standings?1. England (EU Cup Winners)?2. The Netherlands (Silver)?3. Croatia Knights (Bronze)?4. Spain?5. Scotland (Plate Winners)?6. Ireland?7. Finland Icebreakers?8. Germany?9. Iceland (Bowl Winners)?10. EU Crusaders?11. Andorra?12. France?13. Italy?14. Austria?15. Czech Republic

      Sydney is not the centre of the universe, so give Australian Football a go, see a game and join in with the rest of your countryman.

    • Tim says:

      12:46pm | 24/11/09

      Bongle,
      you must be hanging around with ex melbournite public servants then because very few local Canberrans are AFL supporters.
      The AFL has only got a full crowd once in the last two years which was a crowd of 13500. I was there on that day and it wasn’t exactly like they locked the gates and were turning people away.
      You say that the teams coming to Canberra aren’t the ones that people like, well that was part of my point. The majority people that like AFL in Canberra are ex Melbournites who continue to support their own team when they get here.
      This Raiders crowd averages are also hurt by having 12 home games. Because there are so many, people will often selectively choose which games to go to. This is part of the reason why the Brumbies crowds are higher, only having 6 home games this year.
      Also the fact that you can’t remember a Raiders game with more than 10000 people suggests to me you don’t get out much seeing as the Raiders had 19000 for their game against the Dragons in August.
      The stats for crowd figures this year can easily be found at:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_Australian_football_code_crowds
      Canberra is not now nor will ever be an AFL town.

    • Mickey says:

      03:20pm | 23/11/09

      Thomas, one of your AFL types had suggested that AFL is an international game. I merely asked the question , where does this happen?  And i’ll repeat it for you using small words so you can understand. Which countries have established competitions? I am not aware of any.  Which is why i asked. And to use your example, if ignorance is bliss then you must be in nirvana. I am perfectly happy to acknowldge the areas i which the NRL is lacking, but for AFL supporters to try to convince anyone that AFL is an international game is nothing short of laughable.

    • Bongle says:

      03:11pm | 23/11/09

      @Tim:  AFL had a low average this year because of a struggling melbourne playing in front of 9000 people (on a cold miserable day when the Raiders barely managed 5000).  In addition, (for some reason that mystifies me) the AFL insists on playing Sydney games here - and even AFL supporters agree most Sydney supporters are fickle and will not travel to Canberra to watch.  Manuka’s capacity is capped at about 13000, further lowering the averages (special ‘stands’ have been erected the last two seasons, but this only raises the crowd by a couple of hundreds).  It is difficult to judge support based on two games which include Sydney and fairly unsupported Melbourne sides.  Firstly, it means that people don’t have to make very specific days available to go to a game, and secondly people are turned off by the fact that the teams probably aren’t those they like. 
      I know little of the brumbies, but I seriously doubt that the Raiders would average 11000 a game (I don’t remember them having a crowd above 10000 {this, of course, doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened}).  Certainly I know predominantly AFL supporters with a few Soccer fans thrown in.  I know exactly 1 union supporter (QLD), and about 3 League followers (2xRabbidohs and 1xRaiders).  In addition, There are a few people I know who become league fans for the state of origin.  Perhaps my industry attracts more AFL supporters, or perhaps Canberra is moving more and more toward AFL, but either way, based on my experience, there is increasingly little support for either rugby here (until one of the codes looks like they might make finals).

    • Tim says:

      12:08pm | 23/11/09

      OK, to clear this up for you silly AFL supporters.
      Canberra is very much a League and Union town.
      2009 Stats.
      AFL average 9500 people 2 games
      Raiders average 11000 people 12 home games
      Brumbies average 16200 people 6 home games.

      AFL supporters can keep deluding themselves that Canberra is some sort of AFL haven just waiting to be exploited but it clearly isn’t. The only people who support AFL in Canberra are the Ex Melbournian public servants that work here. And most of them only stay for a few years anyway and continue to support their Melbourne team anyway.

    • K says:

      11:39am | 23/11/09

      @Lee 02:58pm | 12/11/09
      The Green Machine boasts when it attracts 6K crowds.
      The AFL complains when their games only attract 9K.

      Yup, clearly still a rugby stronghold!!

    • Lambda says:

      11:17am | 23/11/09

      @SL:  Very Good point!!  Did you know, that the AFL twice played pre-season games in Naranderra (NAB Challenge, not NAB Cup)?  Both times, the attendance was greater than equivalent games played (for NAB Cup points) at Manuka.  Wagga has a HUGE Aussie Rules following and a very strong competition (some would argue stronger than Canberra’s - and Canberra’s sides play against the Swans Reserves).
      These days, with transport being a minor issue rather than a major issue, why not set up a base well outside a capital city?  The AFL claims to be interested in developing regional AFL, and a Mildura or Wagga side would do wonders for their efforts.

    • Marcus Cveks says:

      11:05am | 23/11/09

      I’m confused.  Ethnic people will not like the game because they won’t see anyone from their background playing it?  Assuming for a second your analysis of past players and their cultural backgrounds is accurate (and well, I think it’s questionable at best), don’t you think some young people will aspire to be the first from a particular background to play at the professional level?
      How do people from particular backgrounds form enough of an interest to play without being exposed to the game?

      The reason rugby is so popular with ethnic people, is that it is a game that is more accessible overseas, and is a close neighbour to rugby union (which is even more globally accessible).

      I find it odd that such a comotion is made over the move into Western Sydney.  I agree that the move is a bad idea, but I don’t think that complaining about it will change the AFL’s mind, and I’m not sure what purpose an article such as this intends to serve, other than discourage those who might have watched a game or two.

      At the end of the day, part of the reason for the AFL’s decision, is that they think there is money to be made there.  They perceive that League has been relatively unsuccessful in capturing any reasonable market share in the Western Sydney market, and think that they have a chance of converting supporters who (for the most part) seem to be turning away from League.  If it works, Good on Them.  If it doesn’t, Who Cares?

      A little research goes a long way….
      The AFL claims to have had players from at least 35 different cultures (not including the indigenous players), and (for 10 points), I wonder whether you could tell me the background of the current AFL CEO?

      For the record: I think the AFL would do better to fund an upgrade of Manuka, and move into Canberra (where large numbers of ex-pat Vic’s, Croweaters and Sandgropers reside), and I think the Western Sydney side will struggle for support (although I hear that, contrary to your comments, Junior AFL is VERY strong in the Western Sydney area).

    • Phil says:

      11:28pm | 22/11/09

      This article is quite ignorant. Historians believe that some of the origins Australian Rules Football has its origins with Aboriginals.
      Today if you go deep into Northern Territoty aboriginals are playing Aussie Rules not rugby.
      I guarentee you 99% of aboriginal athletes play in the AFL.

      Since your playing the race card in this artice, let me state that rugby is a posh sport invented in the English private school system in the 1800’s at the height of the British Empire and is only a major sport in former white British colonies i.e. Australia, NZ and the white population of South Africa (blacks wernt even allowed to even join the national team or even local rugby clubs at one point). It is played elsewhere (France, Argentina, etc) but its only a minor sport and plays second fiddle to soccer.

      The journalistic standard of this artical is completely ignorant of facts to the point that it offends me as a member of an AFL club member for 19 years.
      If you go a ‘white country town’ like Geelong and go to Kardinia Park to watch an AFL game you would see different races in the crowd and weve always had at least 1 aboriginal playing on our side ever since I can remember.

    • Matt says:

      12:46pm | 21/11/09

      lol. Melbourne is the most culturally diverse city in Australia. Leo did you really have to use the race card. Its quiet sad.

    • Kingy says:

      08:09pm | 19/11/09

      Lol at the posts saying AFL is just a Melbourne game.

      I think people from Adelaide,  Perth, Hobart and Darwin might disagree with you.

    • BenP says:

      09:37am | 19/11/09

      I’d say that rugby league probably has more actual immigrants - as opposed to descendants of immigrants - playing at the top level than AFL, but that’s nothing to do with being more “accepting”; it’s simply that there are foreign countries with rugby league and union cultures, which is not the case for AFL. Obviously a kid or young man coming from a Pacific country will take up one of the rugby codes - because they probably already did in their home country. And obviously a lot of NRL players are actually New Zealanders who came here as professional footballers in the first place.

      There’d be a similar effect in succeeding generations - a child of a rugby league-oriented father is more likely to take up rugby league. The progress of immigrant families into Aussie Rules is less natural - nobody comes to Australia from a country with a strong Aussie Rules tradition, because there aren’t any.

      So IF the NRL is more multicultural, it’s not a matter of being more accepting of migrants, it’s a matter of where the migrants come from.

      When it comes to players from southern European backgrounds, I doubt there’s much to choose between them, although AFL has a huge following among Italians and Greeks. NRL seems to have a bit of an edge in players from Middle Eastern backgrounds, but that’s a pretty small sample size.

      Comparing someone like George Gregan - an Aussie through and through who came to Australia as a one-year-old - to a teenage Sudanese refugee is pretty silly. Gregan’s experience is much more akin to that of someone like Jesaulenko - son of immigrants who came to the country as a young child, before he had taken up any sport - to that of someone who has grown up without any exposure to Australian sport. Or Peter Bell, who was indeed born in South Korea and is half-Korean, but was adopted by Aussies at the age of 3 and is not “Korean” in any meaningful sense.

      And in fact I’d wager that across BOTH sports, if you take out Pacific Islanders and New Zealanders, the number of professional NRL and AFL players who actually grew up overseas would be tiny.

      So basically, the argument about racism or exclusionism is fairly silly. If ethnicity plays any part in hindering GWS, it won’t be because the AFL is Anglocentric, it’ll be because so much of the demographic is from rugby cultures.

      Although it does admittedly get tiresome the way the AFL and Melbourne media continually congratulate themselves over indigenous players.

    • Dandan says:

      11:41pm | 18/11/09

      NAITANUI!

      What more needs to be said. How many aboriginals play NRL anyway, far more play AFL. Nice to see someone mentioned that AFL is not VFL it is played by every state, hell even rural NSW gets into Aussie Rules. Sydney is the most closed and provincial market for Australian Football, Sydney centric is the rule.

    • james hartnett says:

      03:55pm | 18/11/09

      Great article. The AFL have no idea how to attract ethnic supporters, which is why all the ethnic people in Melbourne support soccer. The same thing will have in W. Sydney, the A-League will have their soccer team in there 12 months before the AFL.

    • acker says:

      07:58am | 18/11/09

      @saints says:

      “is this considered “journalism”

      Maybe the author should consult with legend journo Mike Willesee, who I think had a few matches with the VFL South Melbourne Reserves in the 1960’s.

    • saints says:

      01:30pm | 17/11/09

      ha ha ha ha
      is this considered “journalism”??

      keep running scared NRL

      p.s oh & there is a Lebanese Australian playing AFL, his name is Bachar Houli.

    • cam says:

      06:14am | 17/11/09

      so if western sydney-siders love their rugby league so much, how come none of the teams based there can pull a crowd? Wests Tigers average a crowd of 16,386, Parramatta 13,528 and Penrith only 10,899. This is a fraction of what even a struggling melbourne based AFL team (North Melbourne, 27,677) or a Sydney based AFL team (the swans, 32,822) can pull

      so, perhaps, when looking at what to do in western sydney the AFL could perhaps just look at what the NRL does ..... and do the complete opposite?

    • Aida says:

      12:29pm | 16/11/09

      Nobody said this was going to be easy… nobody said the venture was going to be successful straight off the the bat… there is a long-term plan in place and it will work given time… I’m not going to can League because I don’t mind it as a sport, just not to the same extent as Rules… I hope all sporting clubs succeed in Australia… what I’m sick of, is the same “journalists” and newspapers with the same articles rehashed over and over… find something else to write about, in fact don’t, even Sydney people are sick of these articles and it’s giving AFL free promotion

    • Martin says:

      12:16pm | 16/11/09

      I’m amazed that the article and comments focus on Victoria. Much to the surprise on many people from NSW there are a couple of other states to the west of Canberra that contain over 4million Australians. Football (Australian) is king. Nothing else. Speaking to people from Sydney in work iit it is clear that they think Perth a regional place like Woolongong.  $1.6 million and it’s still considered regional by Sydney people.  Until Sydneysiders expand there vision westward (and i meaan further than Penrith) they will never truly understand Australia.  BTW when my boy played Auskick all the boys were white Australian except for the chinese kid, the indian boy, the african refugee, the couple of English migrants…. And I’m counting the italians, croats etc. as Aussies now becuase they are.  Looking forward to seing Sehrat Temel and Majak Daw on AFL lists next season!

    • Kate says:

      11:33am | 13/11/09

      @Chris, 8:35pm -

      You might be hard pressed to find much racial diversity at Xavier, St Kevin’s etc., but check out the WRFL and Northern footy leagues and you’ll see a large number of players of Asian, European and Middle Eastern descent.
      It’s my understanding that the best players from the junior clubs in these regions are invited to train with clubs like the Western Jets which attract the attention of talent scouts. Players can also be picked up by VFL clubs like Werribee and either drafted as rookies or mature age rookies (see: Liam Anthony and Robin Nahas), which gives kids from areas like the western suburbs, where there is a great deal of ethnic diversity, the chance to play footy at a high level if not the highest.
      As for engaging Asian, Middle Eastern, African supporters - both the Western Bulldogs and North Melbourne do a lot of activities for kids in Footscray and North Melbourne, which includes a lot of kids from non-Anglo backgrounds. North in particular seem to have a fairly high number of supporters of Asian descent thanks to this community involvement.

      I don’t think any club recruits exclusively from rich private school Anglo kids and they’d do so at their peril - ignoring the less well off kids would have resulted in players such as one W.Carey being overlooked!

    • Helen G says:

      11:20am | 13/11/09

      Well lookey here isn’t the NRL wonderful by allowing non-whites to play and showing a wonderful community spirit (full blown sarcasm).  I found your article derogatory and patronising.

    • Rohan says:

      10:24am | 13/11/09

      I see your point, although Sedat Sir (footscray) is a devout muslim who played SAFL a few years before el masri played nrl.
      You will also find that the majority of people who attend or play afl at most levels aren’t anglo saxons as you try to say.
      Both leagues are filled with players of various ethnic origins…i fail to see why this needs another frightened article?
      Also in regards to people of African descent playing rugby over afl…its hardly surprising is it? given that they come from rugby playing countries….

    • S.L says:

      06:10am | 13/11/09

      @timarino. My point is look at the Swans. After 25 years how many NSW players (that aren’t from the Riverina or border area) are in the team? 2 maybe 3? How many players from NSW or QLD in the whole of the AFL? Now how many from Tassy? I don’t know the numbers but I’m sure there is a big difference. To alienate your supporter base could be suicide. The NSW Central Coast between Sydney and Newcastle has been smacked in the face by the NRL for years and they still arrogantly call the area one of there heartlands! They tried a make up a combined team of Manly and North Sydney based up there and when the fans predictably rejected it they basically said “well we gave you a team and you didn’t want it so go away”! Forgeting that Manly is as popular as a fart in the wind up here and top line games were played in Sydney with only the games against the cellar dwellers playing at Blue Tongue. The AFL should consolidate all there strongholds before trying to get a foothold in an Aussie Rules wasteland.

    • matt says:

      01:08am | 13/11/09

      what a load of dribble, not hard to tell this journo follows league and hates Aussie rules, what will we be hearing next ? Aussie rules because its played on a bigger ground is much worse for the evironment maybe ? this journo (far from a journo in my book) has been hammered in this argument, is this what the AFLs up against ? seriously, league will be all but dead i this country within 25 yrs.

    • ben says:

      12:46am | 13/11/09

      As a long-time swans fan,i don`t believe sydney can support another AFL club at this point in time.The new club will struggle for the first 10 or so years just like the swans did when they relocated from melbourne.However if the team is still standing (around say ,the year 2025 ) slowly and eventually the team be accepted by the people of western sydney as their own.

      To all the hardcore rugby league fans,especially those who don`t like or even hate Australian Rules Football: This new AFL team is not the biggest threat to Rugby League in western sydney. Aussie Rules Football will NEVER be the Number 1 game in this part of Australia.Long term, soccer (sorry…football) is the game that could end up being the team sport of choice for the majority of the population in this country in 30 years or more from now.

      It is the preferred game of most immigrants,has the highest participation numbers, registered player numbers, is played by just about every nation in the world and would attract more australian players to go overseas to europe, japan or the middle east (Saudi Arabia, UAE) with the bigger salaries on offer compared to what the NRL,AFL and even Super 14/ARU could pay. The end less sniping from some people on this topic is pointless.Iam a fan of AFL/NRL( Go the Sea-Eagles) and follow most soccer/ football competitions from around the world ( I don`t watch the A-League as I prefer to watch the top european leagues…A-League standard of play is improving but still doesn`t grab me.) To Leo Shanahan; please do so more research before typing up a report on this topic….otherwise you come across as just another pinhead journalist who will write anything to get people`s attention.

    • Steven says:

      08:41pm | 12/11/09

      Did you think Ron Barrasi was Italian because he had a moustache or something?
      As a Western Australian, Australian Football lover, with Italian heritage (who’s family loves our great Australian game, shock horror, as much as white-Anglo Australians) I find this article deeply offensive and it even made me feel quite sick in the guts.
      Go back to High School Leo.
      You offend so many millions of Australians from a diverse range of cultural and ethnic backgrounds, in particular Indigenous Australians, who have had the privilege to play and love our Australian game for generations past and present.
      Please retract this piss poor excuse for an opinion article.

    • Mobuti of Canberra says:

      08:33pm | 12/11/09

      Just to confirm Canberra is a Union and League town, AFL is hardly on the radar. lived here my whole life and Todzilla you’re kidding your self if you think otherwise. That goes for south coast and the Riverina. (Group 8 is one of the biggest league nurseries in NSW) Leo great article, I agree NRL does a better job of attracting non Europeans into the fold, I haven’t watch much AFL, but haven’t seen a non Europeans playing at the top level, besides the indigenous players of course.

    • Jon says:

      08:14pm | 12/11/09

      Just to echo the sentiments, Aussie Rules is THE most inclusive sport, supporter wise, and player wise since the first waves of immigrants had their first-generation offspring. To imply some sort of anglo-centrism is simply ill informed. I doubt the author spent any actual time with an AFL crowd, full of Greeks, Italians, Croatians and every other nationality. Unless the author wants a strict quota system, I don’t see the point of this. lazy journalism.

    • dan says:

      07:59pm | 12/11/09

      Still waiting for an apology Leo. Think your point (or lack thereof) has been blown out of the water today.

    • Chris says:

      07:35pm | 12/11/09

      In the mid 80s when I trained down at Fitzroy there was a Vietnamese kid who played in the Under 19s at VFL Park in the curtain raiser to the seniors.  He managed a lazy 42 possessions!  His reward?  Dropped from the list forthwith.

      At the same time across town old rivals Collingwood were wooing even the Greek community with the Macedonian Marvel, Peter Daicos.  Carlton had Marcou, Silvagni, Perovic and Bortolotto after the famous Jezza, and I remember Zino Tsatzaris somewhere.

      That kid in the Roys Under 19s is probably the closest I can remeber the Aussie Rules community engaging the Vietnamese community even though they are huge supporters of the game, (although I am told peter Bell is biologically from Korean parents).  The Western Bulldogs have a huge Asian supporter base.

      And, whilst Essendon graced us with the skills of Misiti and Mercuri in the 90s the ethnic mix in the AFL has declined.

      What happened?

      IIn its quest for so called professionalism where AFL players by and large become robotic fulltime players and only that the game and the clubs have decided to recruit thorugh the draft only from eleite private schools. 

      As we all know ther ain’t too many Lebanese youths who attend that football nursery of Assumption College for example.

      And, if they want a ‘cehapy’ they go on some wild goose chase and decide to recruit from Ireland.

      As a result the stand out Jack Aziz’z of the world at surburban club level do not even rate a mention.

      Years ago a little known player called paul medrum walked into princess Park at carlton and demanded to train.

      He had tattoos and was hard.  No private school education.

      he led the Brownlow count for 18 rounds in 1987 and was a worthy premiership player.

      This will nnot happen again in the AFL.

      As for affinity with its community perhaps that master of indigenous affairs Kevin Sheedy can learn to break homus and lebanese bread with the folk at Penrith and Parramatta.

    • Bradley says:

      07:30pm | 12/11/09

      I am not sure if you are a Victorian but i stopped reading your story after the first few paragraphs for you really have no idea.

      First you mention the Aboriginals players and yes Rugby League has produced some great Aboriginals but you seem to not notice the great Aboriginal AFL footballers for example Polly Farmer, Michael Long, Gavin Wangareen and that is to name some of the past greats without looking at the current AFL teams.

      Nearly every ethnic group is involved in the AFL, many local Aussie League comps have great culture diversity, interestingly the one ethnic group that hasn’t really taken up Aussie Rules from a playing perceptive is the Asian community but they more than make up for that by their barracking.

      The AFL is seen as more friendly towards Women, yes some players do play up but still Women play a large and important part in Aussie Rules.

      I do agree that i cannot see Western Sydney becoming AFL heartland over the NRL but that is more to do with parochialism and Sydney is extremely tribal, i think the Western Sydney team will struggle to be successful but that is more to do with the culture of Sydney than the ethnic makeup of Aussie Rules..

    • Steve says:

      04:01pm | 12/11/09

      Not to interupt your prejudiced and ill informed rant, but try looking after a player named Sedat Sir.  Debuted for Footscray/Western Bulldogs in 1995 (before El Masri played a first grade game) and is a devout Muslim.  Judging by this high school English report, you probably failed to do any reasonable level of research before publishing.

    • acker says:

      03:55pm | 12/11/09

      Author obviously has “NFI” about the rich tapestry of Aussie Rules including where a lad born in Salzburg Austria to a Ukrainian mother and Russian father was captain coach of the 1979 Carlton Premiership side.

      How about doing a bit more homework on this subject Leo

    • Another Andrew says:

      03:53pm | 12/11/09

      You’re too late! Mark Geyer played a different race card yesterday:

      “I don’t think the Polynesian player has the build for AFL. Rugby league he has, big-time.” (quoted by the Sydney Morning Herald).

      Hmmm.

    • MJL says:

      03:46pm | 12/11/09

      Excellent article. AFL supporters are very unaccepting of non whites and that is probably a reason why many non anglos avoid the game like the plague. Just think back to that Aboriginal player going off at the crowd a few years ago.

    • Mickey says:

      03:12pm | 12/11/09

      Pie eyed, if you honeslty believe there is fear in League about this you are seriously mistaken. NRL/AFL, Holden/Ford, City/Country. Its all the same. People have their preferences, usually linked to how and where they grew up. Its tribalism. The new AFL franchise is going to affect NRL not one bit.

    • Razor says:

      03:03pm | 12/11/09

      Nic Natanui - up and coming superstar of the game.  Natanui wigs are hot sellers for West Coast eagles kids.

      Stop your whinging - I thought you leagies were tougher than the skin on custard.

    • Jono says:

      02:51pm | 12/11/09

      The way I see it, both codes are ethnically diverse, both in playing terms and in terms of it’s support. I live in Perth and support Freo and the game has always been heartily embraced by the southern Europeans that emigrated here after the war. The idea that the AFL is supported mainly by whie Anglo’s and therefore won’t understand Western Sydney’s diversity is idiotic in the extreme.

    • iansand says:

      02:42pm | 12/11/09

      Do you think a piece of cheese would work as effectively?

    • Pie eyed says:

      02:24pm | 12/11/09

      Lee,
      Obviously you were not in Canberra before the Green machine, when it was a totally VFL town.
      If an AFL side was based in Canberra they would be well supported, the problem is our small population and lack of a sizeable ground would always limit crowds to the 15,000 mark, which while acceptable, even spectacular by NRL standards is very poor in an AFL context.

      What really impresses me most about all things NRL whether it be the Journalists who cover and promote it, the fans who support it or the club officials who spruik it, they are all happy to parrot total falsehoods to protect it. It would be easier for them to propagate the lies however if they were slightly less illiterate.

      The fear in Rugby League circles over the AFL expansion into western Sydney is so palpable it is almost visible.

    • kell says:

      02:21pm | 12/11/09

      this is hilarious
      @ John - Please tell me you’re being sarcastic when saying League is doing well involving women by having cheerleaders?!?!?!
      @Swans fan - You’ve managed to justify the whole article, and lend weight to the league side!

      Too silly for words.
      I’m a league fan for the record, but debates like this never fail to bring out some crazies for a lauugh.

    • Mickey says:

      02:12pm | 12/11/09

      Ingliss was cleared by the woman at the centre of the controversy. He had kept his mouth shut to protect her given the circumstances of the incident. Fevola was on duty as a for his footy show duties and made an absolute disgrace of himself. Yeah, out of one club and resigned by another. The greatest consequence to him was losing the footy show gig. As far as this being a weekly occurance in league circles, that is stretching the truth a wee bit dont you think? If you’d like to talk about handling of player issues, how about Ben Cousins? His actions were well known before he finally came unstuck. Then he is shuttled into overseas rehab and fast tracked back into the game. In league, you test positive, you’re out for two years.
        As for NZ, you’re deadset joking. Try telling kiwis they have no interest in the game. You’ll be on your arse before you know about it. And England? Heard of Super League? They’re game is going form strength to strength. The proof of which is the shortening gap between the nations.
        And as for your “international game” would you care to name the many and diverse countries that play AFL? And i dont mean 20 drunken expats having a run on a Saturday. Which countries have set up competitions?

    • Toddzilla says:

      02:08pm | 12/11/09

      Lee - you’re wrong. I spent 20 years on the far south coast and currently reside in Canberra, so I am well placed to comment on this.  With the exception of Bega and Eden, the far south coast is very much rules territory. And then there is the Riverina,  which is one of the strongest Rules leagues in the country and a constant contributor of players to the AFL. In Canberra, I have barely seen a game of league at grass roots level that wasn’t played in Queanbeyan, whereas the local rules comp is so strong that the Swans reserves play their games there.

    • Lee says:

      01:58pm | 12/11/09

      @Toddzilla… southern NSW is not at all an Aussie Rules zone and the ACT is very far from it. Having been there for he mighty years of the Green Machine and having spent all my summers on the far south coast, I can assure you that both regions are still very much “rugby” strongholds.

    • Pie eyed says:

      01:50pm | 12/11/09

      The only thing this article high-lights is the authors total ignorance of even the most basic facts relating to AFL.
      The AFL is bristling with representatives from all migrant backgrounds and has been since it’s inception.
      I challenge you to print a single clubs player lists over the past 50 years with the players including each players family heritage eg. cultural background.
      I can’t believe you get paid for such shoddy journalism, unless of course it by the NRL lackies.

    • Leanne says:

      01:43pm | 12/11/09

      Your argument is flawed, I know plenty of AFL fans from very diverse backgrounds. I’m Italian and follow the Eagles, as does the majority of my extended family!! Your stats with relating to indigenous ppl is flawed as well. You have not researched this at all. Ever heard of Nick Natainui from West Coast? If he doesnt paint the picture of multiculturalism in AFL, then I dont know what does…......

    • Tom says:

      01:36pm | 12/11/09

      What a lousy article. To play the race card while being so misinformed is a double blow, research is always a good start. Maybe if Leo had looked into the players of Melbourne clubs or better yet those produced by South Australia and Western Australia, he wouldn’t have written such garbage.

    • Toddzilla says:

      01:36pm | 12/11/09

      Mickey - For starters Inglis was back playing before cleared (which he hasn’t been - he’s due back in court in April) and well before the semis. Fevola was fined a large amount of money and booted out of his club for what passes as a weekly occurrence in rugby league circles.

      I also love the league people trying to convince themselves that it’s an international game. It’s played in one and a half states (Southern NSW is an Aussie Rules zone, as is the ACT). In England, it is a blip on the radar up north, but of no consequence anywhere else and NZ couldn’t give a toss about it. Nowhere else is it played with any significance. BTW Aussie Rules has national leagues operating in more countries than rugby league.

    • Mickey says:

      01:20pm | 12/11/09

      Yet to act??? Maybe they are waiting until after he retires to decide on a punshment. Yeah, that must be it.

    • Mickey says:

      01:18pm | 12/11/09

      That’s correct Andrew. Because he has been cleared by a court. Fevola isnt playing because its the off season. Ingliss was prevented from playing in the the semis. Want to have another go?

    • Carl Palmer says:

      12:47pm | 12/11/09

      Leo, must be a slow news day. A very disappointing article and I know you can do better. I’m trying to work out which is worse the number of holes in your article or the number of holes in the refugee boats.

      It’s the boat but only just. 

      However I do have to agree with you on one thing, you should give the NPP to the AFL because they have at least achieved something which is a huge improvement on the last recipient.

    • Andrew Lewis says:

      12:43pm | 12/11/09

      Fevola is yet to play another game since the incident happened. The AFL is yet to act.

      Inglis is representing his country at the moment, playing Rugby League.

    • tobey says:

      12:43pm | 12/11/09

      @Alex “yet we still boast a more multicultural and ethnically diverse game than what the nrl ever will” Are you serious?!!
      I dont mind AFL but if there’s one thing the NRL have got over AFL its that it is much more multicultural. You only have to watch both sports to know that it is which is pretty impressive considering the NRL is played in mainly two states

    • Mickey says:

      12:43pm | 12/11/09

      Alex, if you dont care why are you on here trying to convince me of the merits of your sport? Why is it so important to you that we conceed you guys are just super? Because from our point of view, you arent. If its such a great game, why is it only played in this country? You can argue from now till the cows come home. The game of AFL is just not attractive to large numbers of people. Trying to expand the NRL at this time would be a mistake. There is time for that later. Now is the time to strengthen existing clubs and ensure the game is heading in the right direction. That is why the NRL has cracked down rather severely on any dramas involving players or officials. I would suggest the AFL start to look at its own back yard in that area.

    • iansand says:

      12:10pm | 12/11/09

      Pushing Victorian’s buttons never ceases to be entertaining.

    • Calum says:

      12:08pm | 12/11/09

      Have you just turned The Punch into the Sunday Roast leo?

    • Alex says:

      12:04pm | 12/11/09

      Mickey, we’re sure you don’t give us a second thought. We truly don’t care. Our sport is one that has only one professional league in the world, unlike yours - Yet we still boast a more multicultural and ethnically diverse game than what NRL ever will. This is key to our success, and until persons like Leo stop spreading propaganda and start trying to grow your game, it will continue to stagnate. Give credit to the AFL for creating a game that is somewhat marketable outside of its own borderlands.

    • Dave says:

      12:02pm | 12/11/09

      Cricket is entirely populated by Anglo’s ????......what is that anglos or anglos celts?  What does it even mean?

      Good luck with you racially pigeon holing Australians

      Is that Anglos like Ricky Ponting with his Chinese background, Phillip hughes with his Italian background, Shane Warne with his German mother, Andrew Symonds with his west Indian back ground, Dizzy Gillespie with his aboriginal and Greek background, Katich with his Croatian background, Stuart Clarke both his parents are from India. German names like Langer, Hilfenhaus, Bichel, Hauritz, Voges and Lehmann and whatever are the origins of names like Manou and krezja.

    • Mickey says:

      11:57am | 12/11/09

      Apologies SM I guess i arc up a bit quick over this now. The ridiculous comments being sent from down South have shortened my patience with the generalisations.But to be fair, some of the comments in regards to the AFL havent been much better.

    • SM says:

      11:32am | 12/11/09

      @Mickey
      I said “blue collar bourbon drinking yobbos”, and I’m a league fan.  I was referring to the overkill and lack of creativity by the people that market the NRL in targeting this demographic ad nauseam, and at the expense of other demographics

    • Ravi Dimitire says:

      11:21am | 12/11/09

      To Rev. Shinboner. No doubt you (secretly?) indulge in enjoying the cricket in summer along with the other Victorians at the MCG on Boxing Day. No English and mother country issues there for you. Then again, like AFL, cricket is another sport that is still entirely populated by Anglos. AFL isn’t an Australian game, it’s a Melbourne game.

    • Mickey says:

      11:06am | 12/11/09

      Ok Andrew, you want to be judged on what you do. What was the response to the Fevola incident at Crown? Unless i am mistaken, part of his drunken rampage was to accost an innocent woman. What was the outcome to that? Fine? Suspension? Ahh, no. The AFL big names are treated as a protected species. Compare that to the Greg Ingliss incident. As soon as that popped up he is stood down. One of the biggest names in the game. Yeah, the NRL should take lessons from Demetriou. Not!

    • timarino says:

      11:03am | 12/11/09

      @John - It’s laughable that you think cheerleading is involving women in sport. How many women are board directors or executives in the NRL? No where near the number in the AFL, which prefers to see women as equals rather than a form of entertainment.

      @SL - How many professional sports team are run in Tasmania? 0. Maybe one if you count the state cricket team, which is an extension of Cricket Australia. It is due to the size of the market and profitability. It would be silly to think of having one team in Tas while One team in NSW. The AFL want expansion not concentration.

    • Mickey says:

      10:29am | 12/11/09

      Danj, you want to know what is wrong with us NSW people? I’ll tell you. Must of dont give two stuffs about AFL. Added to that, glance through some of the posts here. League fans and described by commenst such as “blue collar bourbon drinking yobbos. The arrogance spewed forth by AFL fans is mind blowing. You love your sport. We get it. But here’s news for the arrogant mexicans. Most of us north of the border dont love your sport. And the ones that do dont have the same parochialism. So get over yourselves. There is no war. Most League fans dont give AFL a second thought.

    • Andrew Lewis says:

      10:25am | 12/11/09

      We are measured not by what we say but what we do.

      How are those Rugby League players going at treating women?

    • Dave says:

      10:17am | 12/11/09

      where have all the great aboriginal League players from NSW gone (other than Inglis)?

      Was John Sattler aboriginal? He captained Australia before Beetson

    • Fred says:

      10:13am | 12/11/09

      Nice try claiming Ron Barassi as an Italian. He is also part Irish and English.

    • PARRA JOHN says:

      10:12am | 12/11/09

      How long before the VFL start trying to wheel out their “AUSKICK” crap ?  Good luck trying to find the available space with both League and Soccer taking up all the ovals and parks, boys.

      The VFL can keep their stupid,  two-bit, Victorian game to themselves. If you’
      re not big or brave enough for League, the obvious alternative is soccer - a true international sport. Aerial Pingpong is just a complete waste of time.

    • Kex says:

      10:03am | 12/11/09

      @John - I don’t think employing cheerleaders is a genuine attempt at getting WOMEN involved in a sport. Sure, the people doing the high-kicks and wearing the skirts are women, but I don’t think they’re the target audience.

    • Toddzilla says:

      10:03am | 12/11/09

      Congratulations, Leo, on what is surely a candidate for most uninformed article of the year. Here are 30 countries that are represented in the AFL that I can name off the top of my head: Italy (Dal Santo, Silvagni, Matera, and about 100 others); Greece (Koutafides, Christou, Malaxos, Lou Richards, et al); Croatia (Gaspar, Jakovich, Didak, Pavlich, and on and on); Cyprus (Demitreou - head of the AFL); Malaysia (Paul Medhurst); India (daniel Kerr, Jordan McMahon); Fiji (Naitanui, Carlisle, Rodan); Germany (Neitz, Gehrig, Voss, Riewoldt et al); Lebanon (Mil Hanna, Bachard Houli); Ireland (Dermie, Tadgh - hundreds of others); Luithuania (Ramanauskas); Macedonia (Daicos, Malceski); Malta (Calthorpe); Netherlands (van der Haar, Vandenberg); NZ (Croad, Schwass); PNG (Mal Michael, James Gwilt); Poland (Koschitzke, Wojcinski).; Russia (Jesaulenko); Samoa (Edwards); Scotland (Sean Wight); Serbia (Slamming Sam Kekovich); South Africa (Cupido); Korea (Peter Bell); Spain (Licuria); Switzerland (Leuenberger); Thailand (Sudjan Cook); Turkey (Sedat Sir); Brazil (Harry O’Brien); Chile (Jose Romero).

    • Cameron says:

      10:00am | 12/11/09

      The attitude of leaguies is to defend their own turf whereas the AFL is about growing the game, offering choice and bringing in new fans and junior players. League clubs still have a meat tray mentaility and their fans are happier sitting on a couch than actually attending a game. The bogan westies who deride the great game as “gayFL”, “aerial ... Read Moreping pong” or “boring” (Paul Osborne) don’t deserve AFL, but these rusted on leaguies also aren’t the type of new supporter the AFL is going after with GWS.

    • Paul Gibson says:

      09:58am | 12/11/09

      AFL stay out of Blacktown!

    • SwansFan says:

      09:44am | 12/11/09

      I love Aussie Rules! I hate the version of rugby played in NSW. I think that beefy Pacific Islanders will not succeed in AFL, as there is no requirement to be steamrollers and bulldozers in that game. There are probably too many rules for them to remember too!

    • Matt says:

      09:19am | 12/11/09

      Actually, I think you’re all screwed (much as I hate to say it as a league and union lover and former player).  Think about the big picture - we’re an ageing population, public health policy is all about wellness, partcipation, inclusion and prevention, and we have seen a global revolution in communications.

      So sports that have a playing age limit (35 at best), are sex-discriminatory and largely rely on sedentary beer guzzling specatorship, and have no global reach are really going to be up against it, especially with sponsors and government investment. Think Nicola Roxon.

      Soccer and cricket may be able to cope with this but the real coming sports are golf and the biggie - cycling - which ticks all the above boxes.  Governments in the near future wont be building stadia, they’‘ll be building velodromes.

      And this coming from a bloke who spent every Satruday night in the 80’s in rugby clubs with a beer jug in hand singing misogynistic rugby songs.

    • Danny Today says:

      09:16am | 12/11/09

      So OK there’s too many whites in AFL. Except the Italian guys, otherwise they’re all white. Oh wait, the Greek dudes, but otherwise… Oh and the Yugoslav, but THEN otherwise they’re all white. Or indigenous. Have you got a point??

      Talk to alot of NRL supporters… heritage makes no difference. If the best player in the game happens to be Lebanese or Polynesian, hey, all the white guys like him too. And these sports aren’t about representing every race - I’d be surprised if anyone thought that - they’re about building the strongest squad from the best talent available. Whether they’re all white with one Lebanese, all Lebanese with 3 Indigenous, or everyone from a different country, who cares?? Has anyone noticed the lack of Anglo names on the Socceroos side?? WHO CARES??

      There might be alot of talent that’s not Anglo waiting for a chance to play in the AFL, but just because a guy is ‘built’ for the game doesn’t mean he’s suited to the elite level. That’s like saying I can serve a tennis ball at 200kph so I should be allowed on the men’s tour. Discipline is a big factor in these guys - alot of people can play the game well but if you’re not up to the training, the mental pressure, the team mentality - you don’t get a run. This article is pretty shallow.

    • dizzyK says:

      09:15am | 12/11/09

      I wish GWS all the best at Blacktown…

      The thing that I don’t get (with the AFL spin) though, is what separates Western Sydney from the rest of Sydney? There is no cling wrap film separating the West… and for 27 years, if you wanted to watch Aussie Rules you could get on a train and watch the Sydney Swans. No Probs.
      These days the Swans even play loads of home games at Homebush (Sydney’s West) and I bet loads of supporters come down from the Hills District (Sydney’s Northwest) with their kids for those matches.

    • Beau Brummell says:

      09:13am | 12/11/09

      Wow, that’s a long winded way of making your point.  Never mind the back patting in AFL; rugby league is equally guilty of this, as is the Daily Telegraph with it’s uncritical and sycophantic articles about the “Polynesian brotherhood”  for one example. Besides, “Polynesia” covers a number of different countries with distinct cultures, including New Zealand. Not very sensitive at all.

    • Rev. Shinboner says:

      09:04am | 12/11/09

      I think it’s an interesting point, Leo. And building a successful AFL side in Western Sydney is going to be a huge challenge. But I think you are ignoring a massive contextual point:

      Rugby (both league and union) is a colonial sport from our mother country, Britian. They also happened to colonise a number of other countries: significantly, much of the Pacific Islands you refer, as well as southern Africa, where rugby is still very much a part of their sporting culture. To suggest George Gregan “adopted” rugby in Australia, and never played it in Nambia - a largely colonial sport-playing country - is bordering on ignorant.

      Aussie Rules, Australia’s only Indigenous sport, is coming from our own humble origins as Australian’s. It has made significant ground in capturing the public’s imaginations in 150 years, but, undoubtedly, has a long way to go. Which is exactly why the AFL is looking to establish a team in Western Sydney.

    • S.L says:

      09:00am | 12/11/09

      The AFL wants to expand to western Sydney and good luck to them but I still can’t understand why they ignore Tassy? I’m lead to believe AFL is the prefered spectator code down there but they want to put teams everywhere else but there and no one takes Hawthornes effort seriously. It also surprises me in a country as big as ours that (with the exeption of the Canberra Raiders and the Brumbies) all codes stick to the coast. Why? Couldn’t Bendigo or Wagga Wagga or Albury or Mildura support an AFL team for example or Dubbo or Tamworth or Toowoomba or Ipswich for league? Bringing either code closer to their faithful? The Daily Telegraph did a survey in Blacktown to test the recognition factor of AFL guys compared to NRL’s Jarryd Hayne by show their photos around. The response was predictable with only a nominal percentage knowing who the AFL guys were but the worrying thing from the NRLs point of view is only 48% of people knew the most publicised league player of the last season in his own backyard. That’s over half the people surveyed of course for a player that is vitually worshiped in the Sydney media like say AFLs Garry Abblet snr in his heyday!

    • Kate says:

      08:53am | 12/11/09

      The supposed “racism” in AFL doesn’t seem to bother the fans, judging by the ethnic diversity that is obvious among supporters.
      If the West Sydney experiment fails, it’s because people in Sydney haven’t grown up with the AFL culture that those in Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth have experienced.
      As for getting “immigrant kids…to play and support the game”, plenty do. Go down to a local footy match any weekend and you’ll see it’s not some exclusive Anglo-Saxon event, especially in the western region league. But the AFL, thankfully, is not ruled by affirmative action. You’ll get drafted if you’re good enough regardless of your background. And if you don’t, it’s a question of talent, not some racist conspiracy.

    • Steve Smith says:

      08:53am | 12/11/09

      @SM: Sydney fans are fickle in general. Sydney fans turn up when their team is winning or to one off events. 60,000 went to watch David Beckham, and yet Sydney FC cannot pull in 10,000 when they are ontop of the ladder.

      Look at Parramatta Eels, midway through the season, they were struggling to hit 8,000 a game.. but as soon as they started a roll, all the talk was about finding a stadium to fit the crowd.

      Sure GWS can buy a star like Jarryd Hayne, but people don’t turn up when he isn’t playing like a freak. It’s a distraction from the fact, GWS will be made up of Victorian born players for many decades, much like the Storm.

    • Davo from St Kilda says:

      08:39am | 12/11/09

      Leo Shanahan, you’ve failed the first and most important journalistic rule - do some basic research before you put your name to an article. To suggest that ‘the AFL doesn’t even reflect the ethnic make-up of its own Melbourne heartland’ is pure ignorance. You obviously didn’t bother to look at current and former players who were either born outside Australia or had one parent born outside Australia, such as: Peter Bell (South Korea), Damian Cupido (South Africa), Wayne Schwass and Trent Croad (New Zealand), Mal Michael (PNG), David Rodan and Nic Naitanui (Fiji), Aaron Edwards (Samoa), Mike Pyke (Canada), Alan Didak and the Jakovich brothers, Glen and Allen (Croatia), the great Alex Jesaulenko (Ukraine), Paul Licuria (Spain), the Sierakowski brothers, Brian and David (Poland), Scott Harding (Tuvalu), Stephen Lawrence (Zimbabwe)... I could go on and name dozens more. As for the influence of the great Italian and Greek players over the decades, there’s not enough space here to list even CURRENT players, let alone those from the past. There are so many indigenous players I couldn’t possibly name even half of them here. As for Lebanese-born Hazem El Masri debuting 10 years before AFL’s Bachar Houli, Carlton’s Milham Hanna, also born in Lebanon, played his first senior game in 1986, a decade before El Masri. To say that ‘the AFL should think about its limited success in getting immigrant kids in its own backyard to play and support the game’ must go down as the most ill-informed, ignorant statement I’ve ever read.

    • Steve says:

      08:37am | 12/11/09

      Harry Kewell, Tim Cahill, Mark Schwarzer - to name just three.  All sons of immigrants, all from Western Sydney.

      For all the talk of Western Sydney being a Rugby League stronghold, it’s also a very important development region for Australian soccer. Far more important than Melbourne or the other Aussie Rules outposts. The AFL continues to view the round ball code as its No.1 long-term threat, not the Rugby codes, and a large proportion Western Sydney’s public playing fields resemble something out of Manchester, Glasgow, Munich or Milan, not the dry and dusty backblocks of Australia’s premier city. There’s more to this expensive AFL move than meets the eye.

    • Ben Haslem says:

      08:34am | 12/11/09

      You must be belting us, Leo. The head of the AFL is of Greek-Cypriot extraction. Go to a Carlton game and it’s almost wall-to-wall Italian-Australians, not to mention the Greeks. Harry O’Brien, who plays for Collingwood is Brazilian!
      Go to the Territory and WA and see how popular Aussies Rules is with indigenous kids vis-a-vis League.
      It’s not hugely popular with Asian Aussies (at least at many games) but that’s slowly changing. And as for: “33.1% of its population were born overseas and Greater Western Sydney has the fastest rate of people born overseas in all of Sydney. It goes without saying that any elite football club needs the support of these people”.
      Why does it go without saying? The Swans don’t have the support of 33 per cent of Sydney and they’ve done very nicely thank you.
      Admit it. League fans are terrified of GWS. Deep down they know (irrespective of their own tastes) that AFL is a more appealing game to more people than League. You’re clutching at straws.

    • Eric says:

      08:28am | 12/11/09

      The race card is getting dog-eared with wear.

      Now it’s racist to want control of our borders, racist to worry about bits falling off aircraft, and racist to support AFL.

      What’s next?

    • SM says:

      08:21am | 12/11/09

      @Steve Smith - AFL does indeed leave the NRL for dead when it comes to marketing.  For whatever reason, the NRL continues to preach to the converted, that being the blue collar bourbon drinking yobbo.

      I think that given time, western sydney will embrace this new side as their own.  Much more so than the the city has embraced the swans, whose fans are predominantly fickle

    • Graham S says:

      08:18am | 12/11/09

      What a collosal load of patronising ignorant tripe . Western Sydney is now neatly boxed, labled and packaged up by nice little white Anglo Celtic Leo Shanahan who no doubt lives in his meat, three veg & Hey Hey it’s Saturday leafy non western Sydney suburb. Sport is sport irrespective of the code and the real argument should be the various choices now available irrespective of ethnicity, religion or culture. Sport binds people together as Leo alludes to but just because you’re a Lebanese, Pacific Islander or Calathumpian has no bearing on what sport you play or follow. The GWS team once established will succeed over time and will take many years to do so but once a local Lebanese, Islander or whatever label Leo wishes to assign one to, makes the grade, more will follow. And there are far more West Sydney raised kids who are currently playing or have played in The AFL than non NSW /  QLD kids who are playing rugby at the top level.It’s called lack of interest.  Even the son of a rugby great plays for the Swans

    • John says:

      08:18am | 12/11/09

      The funny thing is…Leo is from Melbourne! But I agree with him. Keep your racist AFL out of our state. I also note that while Rugby League has cheerleaders for every team, the AFL has made no attempt to involve women in its game. Shame on the AFL!

    • Simple Symon says:

      08:07am | 12/11/09

      I think there is more than enough room for a Western Sydney team and I can’t understand the negative sentiments expressed so frequently in the media, seemingly wanting the move to fail.  One of the major reasons I give the team hope for the future is precisely because of the proliferation of Polynesians in Western Sydney.  A great number of them dwarf your average Caucasian and parents, if given a choice, would more likely steer their smaller child towards AFL or soccer than rugby league.  If they are able to get involvement from the grassroots level, it augurs well for the long-term.  The number of off-field incidents in the last NRL season wouldn’t like to be repeated next season or that will be an even further turn-off for parents.  True, there have been more than more than enough unsavoury incidents in the AFL (think Cousins, Carey, Fevola et al) but the Swans have kept their nose-clean and I think the AFL will get the correct sponsors and people behind them, to make a real go of it.  BTW whilst I’m a Wests Tigers fan, and I agree that Farah is the best hooker in the game, a hell of a lot of others would disagree with your rating.

    • Andrew says:

      08:01am | 12/11/09

      Playing the race card… wow you league guys are worried

    • Steve Smith says:

      08:00am | 12/11/09

      @danj: One thing I think the article reflects well on is the AFL’s arrogance, which generally people of Western Sydney don’t see as warranted… this will lead to hatred of the team.. much like Gold Cost FC with their cocky CEO.

      AFL is a better marketed game, and that’s where it has it’s edge. NRL Clubs Boards are full of ex-football players with no sense of business. As these boards finally evolve and realise it is no longer acceptable to have 3,000 ticketed members, they will make this task harder for the AFL no matter who they sign.

    • Maxie says:

      07:47am | 12/11/09

      Leo, have you ever attended an AFL game outside of Sydney?
      It is most certainly NOT a predominately white anglo-saxon game.
      Had you actually been to the MCG during, say, a Carlton V Essendon match, you’d see that AFL attracts a hugely diverse audience in Melbourne. The ethnicity of the players is irrelevant.
      My family is Italian, and we all played basketball, all my Greek and Italian friends played Soccer, but we still religiously supported our AFL teams.
      I think you’ll find the AFL’s strategy in getting the kids of immigrants to play the game in Western Sydney is not about attracting players, it’s about attracting fans too.

    • Matt says:

      07:38am | 12/11/09

      Great article Leo - the AFL would have done better looking at a place like the Central Coast with its large, white, monocultural population and which the League in all its monumental stupidity continues to ignore.

    • Peter warrington says:

      07:29am | 12/11/09

      Beetson

    • danj says:

      06:54am | 12/11/09

      What is wrong with you NSW people? You’re all wanting the experiment (and I admit it is an experiment) to fail. Why? In Melbourne we reckon the more professional sporting teams the better. Doesn’t matter what it is, we’ll welcome a professional canadian floor hockey team if they want to come. Anything to have an opportunity to watch a sport play at the highest level. Which is why we’re stoked at the prospect of a super 14 team despite most of us wouldn’t even know the rules to rugby union. You don’t see us writing articles saying it won’t work because…. (insert weak excuse here such as only white people play it). It must be your laughing stock state government and economy that is getting you down.

      I could take you up on just about every point you’ve tried to make but I’d be here all day. So I’ll just gloss over a couple. Firstly loads of sons of immigrants have played the game. Andrew Demetriou himself is one.

      Secondly George Gregan wasn’t a refugee. The African referred to is and I reckon its a fair effort to come from being a refugee to playing a foreign sport professionally.

      Thirdly only 640 people are on AFL lists. So divide that by whatever the population is of 18 to 32s and it a small percentage. The law of averages says that most of them will be white because the that’s what the population mostly is. I think you’ll find in fact that aboriginies are over represented.

    • Linda says:

      06:29am | 12/11/09

      hmmm, where exactly is Nambia?

 

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