A few good men, but Rudd’s best ministers are women

Seano says:

10:17am | 15/05/10

Yeah because it really is a level playing field.

Former snag The Child Protector says:

03:29pm | 15/05/10

Eric, Julia, Against the Man, Max Power, T.Chong, Steve_of_Cornubia, Stevie, All excellent comments.

To which i would add that there have been many, equally spectacular failures in the past by female politicians on both sides.

Also with Julia Gillard, its all, a bit convenient for me that the $14 million inquiry into the BER did not find any of the rorting that “The Australian” clearly did?

More important for me though is why should we be happy about her being a “clever Politician”? J W Howard & K Rudd are both very clever politicians, J W was great at wedge politics & dog whistling.

Kevin performed brilliantly with Joe Hockey on “Sunrise” for years, where do you think all the enthusiasm for him, honeymoon period came from?

Look at NSW, it does not matter which, “poster person” (see how i slipped the PC in there) you put up, out front, behind them is still the red/green/getup/labour coalition.

isn’t there another article about them rorting election results in SA?

Furthermore when you talk to ex labour voters, “both genders” as i have, the top of their hate, list is the PC thought police & radical, extreme, fauxmanistas.

Eric says:

07:57pm | 15/05/10

Seano: No, it is not a level playing field. In Labor preselections for NSW seats, female candidates are given an extra 20% of votes.

This is totally sexist, and I will not vote for a sexist party.

Seano says:

07:59pm | 15/05/10

“Against the Man” I like the way you’ve referenced one of your own sock puppets. I stopped reading at that point…laughing too hard.

Seano says:

07:42am | 16/05/10

Eric: It would be sexist if women received equal treatment and equal representation, they don’t so it’s merely a leveling of the playing field

Eric says:

10:09am | 16/05/10

Formersnag and Against The Man have very different writing styles. Just count the ampersands and commas.

What makes you think they’re the same person, Seano? I think you’re at risk of being the one laughed at here.

Eric says:

11:32am | 16/05/10

Seano, as I have pointed out, the playing field is not level. It is tilted against men by the discriminatory policies of the Labor Party.

Seano says:

06:38pm | 16/05/10

Why do you struggle so with basic comprehension?

For the playing field to be tilted against men by the affirmative action taken by the ALP it would have to be level to start with.

As the playing field is not level to start with you’re sound silly.

Seano says:

06:40pm | 16/05/10

“What makes you think they’re the same person, Seano? I think you’re at risk of being the one laughed at here. “

Takes real genuis to count ampersands and come to a conculsion Eric.

But how about this one for logic: He’s used the same names on a single post, ooops. It’s ok Eric he’s abit…out there…and he gets confused sometimes. Apparently he’s not the only one.

persephone says:

07:25pm | 16/05/10

Eric

no, the reason why more competent women are turning up in politics is because it’s becoming less attractive as a profession for men.

There’s a well known correlation between: men leaving a particular kind of job because they can get better pay and conditions elsewhere; women coming in, because it beats the pay and conditions they can get; continued decline in pay and conditions, because it’s women’s work.

So as pollies fall down the scale when it comes to pay, and community respect, women come in to fill the vacuum.

They look really good, because the only men who stick around aren’t very competent.

Believe me, Eric dear, it is still very much a man’s world.

And, sorry to burst another little bubble, but the Liberals are every bit as committed to equal opportunity as Labor. In fact, more so.

Menzies brought in an excellent rule which says that all party positions must be shared equally between the sexes. So if there is a male President, the Vice must be female, for example.

I’ve also known pre selections where Liberal HO has actively intervened to ensure women get elected. They don’t say so publicly, but look at Higgins; when it looked like O’Dwyer might be beaten in a fair and open vote by a man, the feministas of the Liberal party went beserk. One supporter of an opposing male candidate said publicly that there had been pressure placed on male candidates not to run and give her a clear field.

So they have quotas too; they’re just not as open about them.

Eric says:

07:12am | 17/05/10

Seano, the myth of a playing field tilted against women has been debunked many times. You can repeat it as much as you like, but fewer people will believe outside your Labor Party cult.

Persephone: If what you say about the Liberals is true, it’s still not the same as the situation in the Labor Party - which actively discriminates against men through rules that give women more votes semply because of their gender. That is pure sexism.

AntiMajorMistakes or Others Man says:

09:24am | 17/05/10

Good Morning Eric, Persephone’s spin sistas clearly noticed this little article on the weekend they wheeled out their Fairfax media machine on Sunrise this morning with “alleged” polling from the red/green/getup/labour coalition saying Joooolia is getting more popular.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, i have never seen a more deadpan, dispassionate, delivery of drivel in my life.

Anytime you want to catch up with what the mushrooms & sheeple are being fed, just watch Sunrise.

BTW, Seano, Against the man & Freeman are somebody else. There is only one time i can remember using another “headline” to my journalism & forgot to sign off with my old moniker “former snag” & that was the same name tag you see here.

This may have escaped your notice but News ltd do advertise “the punch” in their newspapers & we are all seeing new names every week as newbies give blogging a try.

i encourage people to try “The Punch” & OLO everywhere i go.

PS, What are the 4 scariest words in the English language? Prime Minister Julia Gillard. gets huge laughs everywhere i go.

regards the former snag & swinging voter.

persephone says:

11:41am | 17/05/10

Eric

I have been around politics in the ALP a while now; I can’t ever think of a situation where the rule has had to be used.

It’s simply one of those checklist things all good organisations do to keep them honest.

Julia won her preselection fair and square. It took her five years to win preselection; in that time she stood for other seats and lost. She certainly wasn’t handled anything on a platter.

The awareness of the need to encourage good women to enter politics means that there are considerably more women MPs in the Labor camp than the Liberal, which in itself suggests that either there is something seriously wrong with the way Liberals preselect candidates or that they are actively sexist.

Seano says:

05:22pm | 17/05/10

@Eric: to debunk something it’s usual to provide some sort of edvidence. You should start there.

@AntiOrWhateverYourCallingYourselfNow: Sure, mate sure.

Chase says:

08:22pm | 17/05/10

You’re an idiot Eric. Whine Whine Whine the women control the world. That’s your motto.

Mark says:

09:43pm | 17/05/10

Make sure you ask pers for a bit of evidence every so often sean.

Just for a laugh.

Vicki PS says:

09:44pm | 15/05/10

Is that the most cogent argument you have against Julia Gillard as PM, that she has a broad accent?  Dear God…our national credibility will vanish if the Australian PM sounds Australian!

jt says:

11:28am | 16/05/10

@ Vicky:

Oh, no. She’s a terrible administrator - she’s rushing the schools building program and wasting a lot of money in the process.

She’s left wing - and my experience with the Labor left is they are ruthless against men when it comes to family law, child support and anything to do with kids. It’s this mob that thinks men have no place in child rearing.

Mostly I don’t like her because she is part of a quota. I don’t believe it’s fair to men - in these days of equal education rights - to give women a leg up because they are women. It’s counter to equality.

But yeah, the accent grates on me. It’s sorta like dragging a kangaroo around Los Angeles in a cage on a trailer. But I can be balanced. I found Alexander Downer’s accent a bit of a pain too. I like a nice, even tempered voice. If Jenny Macklin can smooth her voice out, then Gillard should too.

Jane says:

10:36am | 15/05/10

She doesn’t even ‘talk a good talk’....the Red Dalek is an embarrassment and a joke.

Alice says:

11:46am | 15/05/10

Oh please!
What can be said of Abbott? Who the flying frig is he? He is continually morphing into something other than himself. He has abandoned all his core beliefs & policies.
What I would be very wary of are the polls. If we are to believe the polls that the ALP is in trouble then we must believe the other message.
That message being that Abbott has effectively character assasinated Rudd but has not lifted his personal support.  But, Turnbull’s support has jumped significantly, well above Abbott.  He is the prefered PM over Abbott. Now if that doesn’t tell you something then ........................

Against the Man says:

10:56am | 16/05/10

It really isn’t about Abbott or anyone else. If you aren’t smart enough to see why rudd needs to be kicked out now then you deserve to be paying the price in a few years when everything will be taxed and we will be having the same human rights as china (Re: internet filter as the 1st step in dismantling democracy).

persephone says:

01:35pm | 15/05/10

Steve, I realise it’s a hopeless task asking you to provide evidence of your assertions, rather than just repeating Liberal mantras.

I did challenge my local Lib MP to back their similar claims. With over 200 projects happening in our local electorate, all they could come up with to back their claims of waste and mismanagement was one school where the portables had been removed to make way for new buildings.

In another case, in a neighbouring electorate, the local parents group’s complaint was that they wanted a bigger school hall with more equipment.

So two examples of ‘complaints’ from two electorates, with more than 400 projects between them. In one case, the ‘complaint’ - the removal of old classrooms whilst new ones were being built - was typical of any building project and in the other, it turned out to be an attempt to get more money.

I’d suspect that the majority of ‘complaints’ about the BER are similar.

Easy to focus on the ‘numbers of complaints’ rather than look at their substance.

Also easy to focus on the number of complaints and ignore what they represent as a percentage of projects underway.

There’s something like 24,000 projects in total, most of which (judging by my electorate) are under way, and only 150 complaints have been lodged, despite the independent auditor encouraging complaints from the general public as well as school communities.

That’s a fantastic result in anyone’s language.

(Oh, and information about which schools have funding for what and how much and where are all freely available at:

http://www.economicstimulusplan.gov.au/mycommunity/pages/default.aspx

—- so there’s nothing spooky in my knowing the numbers in my electorate.

You could, if you liked, look up a local project for yourself and ask members of that school community how it’s going.

As always, I encourage you to do your own research).

Ben81 says:

07:27pm | 15/05/10

persephone why is it that whenever someone mentions their concerns about a lack of value for money with the BER buildings you write a short essay about how many complaints there are?  The cost is the issue here and you know it.

In a lot of areas there’s clearly a special price for BER buildings and another price for anything else.  People are charging whatever they think they can get away with, and they have indeed gotten away with it.

John A Neve says:

07:37am | 16/05/10

Ben81,

Your comments about school building rorts, if correct?  Are more a reflection on you fellow Australians, than the government, ripping off the government is like stealing from yourself.

Just think, you probably mix socially with some of these rorters!!

persephone says:

08:12am | 16/05/10

Ben

well, not according to Abbott and co - they seem to think the main issue is parents not having enough say. The only costs they’re talking of cutting are the managment ones.

No suggestion, for example, of an audit of the program should they be elected.

As for cost, I’ve dealt with it previously, but what the hey—-

School buildings are built to a higher standards than ‘normal’ buildings. This is because they’re meant to last longer, with less maitenance, and with higher wear and tear than most buildings.

Even builders - at least ones not familiar with government standards - don’t understand this. The Auditor General’s report has a nice couple of examples of this; for example, a builder on a school council arguing that the school was being overcharged was asked to submit a tender and delivered a bid far more expensive than any of those on offer.

There have been some false comparisons between the costs of private schools managing their own building projects and public school projects managed by the relevant State education department.

Firstly, it has to be acknowledged that different States will do things different ways, so we’re not comparing apples with apples, BUT—-

as a general rule, public schools lack the resources to manage projects of this size. If there’s enough slack in staffing to allow someone to manage a major building project, then that school has been over resourced! Most principals I know spend something like twelve hours a day doing their normal job; if they could find thirty minutes to spend on project management I’d be gobsmacked.

And teachers and principals have no training in this area. I know of building projects managed by experts which have resulted in cost over runs (frequently happens at the local shire level, for example, where management of major projects if a major part of their business), so I would think that handing over these projects to schools, as proposed by the Opposition, would be disastrous.

But hey! Would you trust a party which can’t even deliver on an ETS they had voted for in the party room to deliver a schools buidling program? I wouldn’t.

Ryan says:

10:16am | 16/05/10

@Ben81 : you are wasting your time trying to get pers to actually address that issue, now apparently there are only a few complaints because schools and the teachers unions have been threatened like an opressive communist reigieme would, of withdrawal of monetary support lest they speak out against the rorting that we know is happening.

Ben81 says:

12:21pm | 16/05/10

Yes persephone i’ve seen you try to explain school building standards as a reason for a lot of these buildings being incredibly expensive before. That doesn’t begin to explain why school halls suddenly cost twice to build per square metre than they did only a few years ago, an increase not matched anywhere else in the industry, and why transportable buildings (real high standards there) have cost close to a million dollars in many cases, sometimes 3 or 4 times as much as they used to cost schools before the BER scheme, and 3 or 4 times as much as I could pay for the exact same projects tomorrow with my own money if I wanted to (or had the money, I wish).  It’s funny these massive cost increases only seem to affect buildings in the government’s BER scheme isn’t it.

Builders were pushing the boundries of what they could charge with every building, a certain million dollar shade area that cost $78,000 in 2003 when the school built a similar one was one of the most obscene examples.  It took a year of lobbying by the principal and school community to stop the government throwing money at that ripoff, isn’t it sad that it took such a stupidly extreme rort for people to say enough is enough.

Jane says:

02:24pm | 16/05/10

Perse says..
“.......as a general rule, public schools lack the resources to manage projects of this size. If there’s enough slack in staffing to allow someone to manage a major building project, then that school has been over resourced! Most principals I know spend something like twelve hours a day doing their normal job; if they could find thirty minutes to spend on project management I’d be gobsmacked.”

...and yet, Private schools ( and principals) with even less resources seemed to be able to manage it and get value for money!!

Give it a rest Perse….you are on a road to a hiding here.

The BER wastage and rort has been a disgrace…..making the insulation debacle pale into insignificance…as is and will be revealed.
Principals have been gagged from comment ( or criticism) and most others who don’t give a rats if given a ‘Holden’ at ‘Mercedes’ cost.

persephone says:

03:25pm | 16/05/10

Ben, as I have said, when many of these claims were looked into they were found to be untrue.

I’d appreciate you providing a few links to support your assertions, otherwise we’re just playing ‘he said she said’ which is pretty pointless.

My info is the Auditor General’s report, what’s yours?

freeman says:

04:56pm | 16/05/10

Persephone
why would the schools complain? they don’t care what the buildings
cost.
These buildings came at no cost to schools, There should be NO complaints. if the schools had the buildings built out of their own savings we can only imagine how many complaints there would be.

Ben81 says:

07:40pm | 16/05/10

persephone, “My info is the Auditor General’s report, what’s yours? “, well that’s interesting, because the question of value for money was outside the scope of the report.  It says exactly that around page160 I think, and then just mentions some of the background of the problem and moves on after brushing it off and barely looking into it at all. 

So when you say “Ben, as I have said, when many of these claims were looked into they were found to be untrue.” you’ll have to point me to where those concerns have even begun to be addressed instead of a report that deliberately avoids investigating them, because I haven’t seen any real attempt at that yet.  The building costs aren’t a secret, I haven’t seen anything suggesting the invoices were faked and costs found to be untrue.

Christian Real says:

05:56am | 17/05/10

John Neve,
Yes, I agree with you John, any rorts come down to the builders, the tradies that are ripping of the Government, and yet these Liberal imbeciles have a bent and twisted narrow minded view and continue to echo Tony Abbott’s diatribe about it being the Government’s fault.
I for one do not put a price on Australian Children, and Australian children of the future generations that in the long term will benefit from these new infastructures being built at their schools, new Libraries, Halls and new classrooms, that the previous Liberal government failed to provide even though they had almost 12 years in office.
The benefits will outweigh the costs of these new school buildings that for the children and future generations of children who attend these schools.
It appears that these Liberals, and others that are complaining about money spent on schools, should be taking it up with the builders and tradies that are the people ripping the government off with their over inflated prices.
Also it appears that those complaining about these new school buildings over costing, have indeed put a price on their children’s heads and are in saying that their children are simply not worth the cost.
Question is, how much is your children really worth to you, do you really feel that they don’t need new classrooms to learn in, that they don’t need new libraries to read and be educated in, that they don’t need new indoor areas like halls that can also cater for activities when it is raining, because regardless of the costs these new school builds will benefit your children and the next generations of children to come.
To put a costs on your children’s educations, and buildings that will benefit your children during their school years, is to put a costs and a price on your child,so in actual fact, are you all saying that your children are not worth the costs?

Freeman says:

09:08am | 17/05/10

John Neave and Christian Real,
So you guys think the goverment has no business managing the costs
of the BER programme? so they’re there just to dish out the money no
questions asked with no opinion on value for money and expect that
contractors won’t rip it off? and when they do rip it off it’s the contractors
fault, not the goverments? is that what you think? coz that’s your whole
argument.

John A Neve says:

10:56am | 17/05/10

Freeman,

Do you really expect the federal government’s ministers to have hands on coverage of all jobs?

Yes, if you like they just dish out money, they set policy. I doubt there is any one in government who is qualified in bricklaying, plumbing, electrical wiring, painting ect.

State governments have different standards, building inspectors etc. If there are checks to be made they would be made by the state authorities and the person who commissioned the work.

As I stated before ripping of the government, is like stealing from yourself.

Freeman says:

03:00pm | 17/05/10

John A Neve,
i don’t expect govermment ministers to peronally every tender submitted. I would expect the goverment to implement a fair and robust tendering process with reasonable protection against rorting.  That’s what an economically resposible govt would do. Somehow you would claim it’s the contractors fault that the govt clearly implemented a spending free-for-all in which some tenders with 400k in admin fees alone were approved. the govt has a responsibilty to ensure our money is spent wisely and that is why they have copped a flogging over the Insulation and BER rorts. it’s fair criticism so suck it up.

John A Neve says:

03:48pm | 17/05/10

Freeman,

How do you know the “400K’ quote wasn’t the cheapest?
Just think, I doubt any government minister would kinow the going rate for painting, wiring etc. That is nethier their role or function, rather it is the role of the works department or similar.

But yet again, I’ll say it is the builder/contractor who is ripping the taxpayer off. You probably drink with some of them or have a round of golf.

AntiMajorMistakes or Others Man says:

04:25pm | 17/05/10

@ Freeman & listen up, your detractors from the red/green/getup/labour coalition. Actually the real situation is far worse than you suggest.

They have known for years, that “Blue Collar, Tradies” form the largest group of disgruntled, ex labour voters, of all. These are the swinging voters, who kept Howard in power for all those years.

Some of them were scared back to labour by “work choices’. Many were not even scared back to the fold by “work choices”.

The red/green/getup/labour coalition were desperate to bribe them, back into the fold. There never was likely to be much recession in OZ, but it made a great excuse for throwing heaps of money around.

Even better, it gave them the excuse to, say, they saved the economy by doing it & it might have worked.

People who spin around, like tops or “whirling dervishes” end up in a trance like state, get giddy & fall over. When they wake up, “get up” off the ground, they usually end up with a condition called “reverse psychology psychosis” or, to use the Aussie vernacular, they end up “believing their own bulls*%#”.

regards the former snag & swinging voter

Mark says:

09:34pm | 17/05/10

persephone says:

      01:35pm | 15/05/10

      “Steve, I realise it’s a hopeless task asking you to provide evidence of your assertions, rather than just repeating Liberal mantras.”

Pot meet kettle. Are you serious here? Probably the most self serving hypocritical comment you have written here. And that is really saying something.

      ” I did challenge my local Lib MP to back their similar claims. With over 200 projects happening in our local electorate, all they could come up with to back their claims of waste and mismanagement was one school where the portables had been removed to make way for new buildings.”

No you didn’t. Stop lying. It is pathetic.

      “In another case, in a neighbouring electorate, the local parents group’s complaint was that they wanted a bigger school hall with more equipment.”

Crap. Pure hearsay. What school? What parent group? Ring up Hastings Public School in Port Macquarie 6582 2566 - there you go no need to even search. Ask them how they found the grant. Ask them about value for money. Are they happy they are getting funds. YES!!! Did they think it was bad value. Answer is a HUGE YES.

You always ask the wrong question pers. Stop being disingenuous. Ask the pertinent question. Not a question designed for spin

      “So two examples of ‘complaints’ from two electorates, with more than 400 projects between them. In one case, the ‘complaint’ - the removal of old classrooms whilst new ones were being built - was typical of any building project and in the other, it turned out to be an attempt to get more money.”

Lies and unsubstantiated crap. I have provided a phone number. Call it.

Put up or shut up pers. Or are you like your glorious leader, a spineless wimp with no convictions and no substance?

    ”  I’d suspect that the majority of ‘complaints’ about the BER are similar.”

You suspect? You have nothing then. No they are not. Stop it. Your cheer squad mentality is embarrassing.

      ” Easy to focus on the ‘numbers of complaints’ rather than look at their substance.”

Easiy to focus on audits that don’t ask salient questions you mean. What a joke.

  ” Also easy to focus on the number of complaints and ignore what they represent as a percentage of projects underway.”

Easy to intimidate principals to say nothing. Easy to have implied threats of taking the funds away. Easy to hide rorts with the help of state Labor governments.

Take a straw poll of principals and ask if the funds that were spent provided value for money.

Hmm? What was that? Don’t want to? Bit embarrassing eh.

      ”  There’s something like 24,000 projects in total, most of which (judging by my electorate) are under way, and only 150 complaints have been lodged, despite the independent auditor encouraging complaints from the general public as well as school communities.”

So what. Intimidation and the thought of missing out on a freebie has kept the outcry down. The “independent auditor” was not asked to examine value for money. That line of investigation was specifically excluded from his brief. and thus makes your point moot. And a lot of spin. Typical.

Interesting that he actually commented on the exclusion. Read between the lines. He wasn’t happy and saw the rorts.

      “That’s a fantastic result in anyone’s language.”

What is? The waste of billions of dollars. The continuation of a “stimulus” package in a period of rising inflation and interest rates. The use of it as advertising space in a morally corrupt way making it mandatory to have a sign out front. Having “safety” campaigns run on TV. What a farce. Disgusting.

  ”    (Oh, and information about which schools have funding for what and how much and where are all freely available at:

      http://www.economicstimulusplan.gov.au/mycommunity/pages/default.aspx

      —- so there’s nothing spooky in my knowing the numbers in my electorate.”

It means nothing. It is just a listing of the projects. Every time I look at it I get a sick feeling at how much was and is being wasted all over the country.

    ”    You could, if you liked, look up a local project for yourself and ask members of that school community how it’s going.”

I have. Ask Hastings Public School. They had the guts to speak out.

      ” As always, I encourage you to do your own research).”

As always it is faulty, biased, flawed and self serving.

Typical load of pers rubbish. The BER is a misnomer. The R stands for rorts not revolution. All it is is a massive waste of money designed to buy votes. $16+ billion spent. Much less delivered.

Fail. If this is policy I am glad Rudd ditched the rest as cowardly as his actions were.

Jeff says:

10:42am | 15/05/10

You’re right Stevie, K Rudd has been out and about shouldering ‘conditional’ blame for everything except the back flip of the ETS. Julia’s had a pretty smooth run so far.

persephone says:

09:37pm | 15/05/10

And yet when Kelly O’Dwyer’s preselection looked in doubt in Higgins the Liberal sisterhood suddenly came out saying that she was being discriminated against and demanded that she be preselected.

And I followed a Liberal preselection for a safe seat a few years ago where at least three of the candidates were friends of mine (strange, but true!) and told me what went on behind closed doors.

Basically, the local preselectors were over riden by Head Office and told to choose from the women candidates and ignore the men, and one of the losing woman was given another safe seat.

So the Libs do their own gender equity stuff, it’s just that they’re not upfront about it.

Jane says:

01:58pm | 16/05/10

Nice attempt to claim tit for tat Persie…but clearly no cigar.
Don’t simply point to isolated instance where it what thought a woman was more politically viable in a particular area for any specific reason. Any such instance does not absolve a long held deliberate manifesto and culture of artificially elevating woman for the sake of gender numbers across the party base like the ALP does….and has done for decades. Emily’s List ring a bell?..no such sentiment in the Liberal Party…upfront or behind the scenes. So your sneaky pretence that it’s just not ‘open’ is a lame attempt to blatantly deceive that it occurs. How strange for you to do so LOL. “Anthing it takes” hey?....blind ALP ethos runs through their indoctrinated minions veins as well it seems.

Only the ALP have deliberate and targeted mandatory female quotas regardless of merit….based purely on gender….and to appease any said ‘sisterhood’ of feminazis. Best you have a chat to that disgrace for a politician let alone woman, Joan Kirner, to ascertain just how vigorously women are promoted for women sake inside the ALP. She would represent and embody the absolute folly of ‘women for women sake’ if ever there was one!!!

The feeble little ‘inside’ knowledge angle you pop in to pretend to add weight to your ‘argument’ not only speaks volumes on Labor deceit to sanctimoniously point score and ‘know better’...but ignores the reality that there are those actually ‘inside’ the Party and intimate knowledge of it’s real workings who know ‘even better’ than you…and that you are typically full of it here.

Aside from any notion of best horses for courses, which sometimes gender may play a part of a larger recipe or mix regarding isolated circumstance, women in the Liberal Party are there based on merit…and ironically the numbers actually rival those of the ALP who feel the need to artificially promote them on gender alone….for political expedience…..and gratuitous point of reference for them.

I could point to any number of useless ALP female tokens who would not be there other than at the behest of deliberate propulsion for female gender and making up quota alone.

persephone says:

07:32pm | 16/05/10

Jane

appalling ignorance of Liberal Party history there.

The Liberal party has had, since its inception, rules to ensure that there is equal male/female representation in certain party positions.

Jane says:

04:36pm | 17/05/10

..‘in certain Party positions’....yes, as part of membership/Branch/FEC admin roles held…but that’s not what we’re talking about here Perse is it? Nice attempt but again, no cigar….and more deception.

We’re talking about preselection of candidates for seats and elevation of female MP’s for female sake into office - MANDATORY FEMALE QUOTAs in the ALP..there are NO such determination as such in the Liberal Party….and you know it.

Jane says:

05:33pm | 17/05/10

“The Australia Labor Party (ALP) is the only party in Australia to have introduced a
quota to increase parity. Formally introduced in 1994, 35% of women were to be
preselected to ‘winnable seats’ by 2002 which was recently increased to 40% by 2012.”
http://www.humanrightsconsultation.gov.au/.../Amanda Wilson_AGWW-7T28RX.pdf

Artificially elevated based on GENDER.

persephone says:

06:17pm | 17/05/10

Jane

as I said, I know personally of two preselections where Liberal HO made it perfectly clear that the men running were automatically excluded.

The candidate against Kelly O’Dwyer made similar statements - that he and others had been told not to run against her. When he did, he was accused of being sexist.

As for the deception - I pointed out a long standing Liberal party rule. I did not mention pre selecttions at all, I referred to party positions. If you can’t read simple English, that isn’t my problem.

My point was, and is: the Liberals have had ‘quotas’ in place longer than the Labor party. They have, in fact, a proud history when it comes to female representation, with a lot of firsts under their belt.

That was, however, in the days when they were a ‘liberal’ party rather than a conservative one.

persephone says:

09:41pm | 15/05/10

Er, no, because after a brief attempt at a media beat up it turned out he hadn’t said any such thing - and probably, in true Hawkie style, threatened to sue the pants off any journo stupid enough to say so.

But you’re right….Abbott is absolutely terrifying, but probably not for the reasons you’re thinking.

Vicki PS says:

09:50pm | 15/05/10

As if Hawke’s opinion counted for anything with Labor any more.  He became PM by using the knives he planted in others’ backs as a stepladder.  Labor people have long memories: they don’t forget that the feather duster of today is still treacherous old cock.

Jane says:

02:17pm | 16/05/10

Be honest Perse…it wasn’t a media beat up at all - it was reported….he only ‘claims’ he didn’t say it when caught out….it didn’t ‘turn out’ anything. His word against who reported hearing it.

He had acknowledged he was discussing the ‘poor polling’ etc…..and the ‘broken hearted’ bit - much that WAS reported as overheard..the only thing he ‘claims’ he didn’t say was that the Red Dalek should replace Rudd….as you would expect. Oops.
He only got dirty when revealed he was overheard by a Liberal staffer….and felt the need to deny it…..you never know who’s about do you?

Christian Real says:

07:52am | 17/05/10

There is no merit or substance in this alledge story that the Liberal brigade has taken to be the Gospel truth, when in fact and reality, it isn’t and it is just another beat up story by the media,that appears to have been overhead by a liberal staffer, who twisted and misconstrued the story into a misleading diatribe that it has now became.

persephone says:

11:45am | 17/05/10

Jane

just as Turnbull realised when he shirt fronted Rudd’s adviser at the winter ball….

Yep, I suppose it all boils down to who you trust - an eavesdropping Liberal lackey or one of our longest serving and most respected PMs.

Seriously, if anyone thought Hawkey was lying, it would still be in the news.

persephone says:

11:48am | 17/05/10

Next opinion poll (Galaxy & Newspoll)...nup, no change, so obviously the mining tax isn’t upsetting anyone who wasn’t upset already.

Fine with me.

Mark says:

07:40pm | 17/05/10

“Fine with me.”

Yes dear fine with you. Out of step with the rest of Australia still.

Polls are looking a bit sick. You are posting overtime to spin.

Seems the office is a bit rattled.

Mark says:

09:44pm | 17/05/10

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Spiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiin.

Great stuff pers.

Know your BER says:

12:57pm | 16/05/10

Shane,for the dull,While Im not a gillard fan,the alleged Rorting is simply a product of Labor Policy and general ethos,that is Bureaucracy and Administration on Steroids whether it is the admin of the PMs office,Dept of Alleged Climate Change or the sector that is specifically set up to write speeches and presentations of spin.
Example and Fact—Senior Project Management Companies who are nominated by the Govt employ Project Managers to oversee Project Management companies who oversee builders who employ Project Managers to Administer the Projects that have Project Management Protocol Policies to administer that are set in place by Senior Project Management Companies,This is before the job is let to the successful Tenderer is awarded the job
Senior Executive Project Manager             $400,000 plus
Senior Project Manager                       $250,000 plus
Project Manager                               $125,000 plus
Cadet Project Manager                       $40,000   plus
Administration Staff,etc,etc ,etc
This is in place before well before Ground is broken,or a hammer swung
While all these are private sector,its still taxpayers money.
All these costs are part of BER,and are typical of Labors Management

persephone says:

03:27pm | 16/05/10

Please give your source, BER.

Mark says:

07:43pm | 17/05/10

He knows someone on a school board board pers.

Or a local hospital board.

Or spoke to an architect friend

You know. Same credible sources as you trot out in valiant defense of the trainwreck that is labor policy.

I believe him actually. Sounds about right.

persephone says:

08:52pm | 17/05/10

Mark, if those are his sources, he could at least say so.

I would point out that the figures he does quote are statewide costs - the less than $1 million is quite small when put against a statewide budget of something like $4 billion.

Taxpayer says:

09:57pm | 17/05/10

The aboriginal housing fiasco should have been a warning to Gillard that the BER would not work properly. Gillard is an idealist with no practical management qualities. How can you put a socialist (almost communist) in charge of a capital building program. Federal public servants are also useless at managing these programs. It was doomed from the start as was the “Pink Batts”, etc disaster!

stephen says:

08:20pm | 17/05/10

Hey, come on I’m 53 and I’ve had no complaints.