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A cosy club: Why we pay more at the store

Frank Zumbo

by Frank Zumbo

19 Jan 05:55am

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Filed under: Gerry Harvey, Gst, Internet, Online Shopping, Retail

102 comments

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission and successive governments have failed to curb retailers’ increasing market power, which is why Australians pay more at the store.

Illustration: Sturt Krygsman

Gerry Harvey may be one of Australia’s well known and most successful “traditional” retailers, but he has seriously misjudged the consumer support for online retailing. He is not alone in getting it wrong. Major retailers and shopping centre landlords have also been very unhappy with Australian consumers going online to buy from overseas websites.

Why are the major retailers and shopping centre landlords unhappy with the growth of online retailing?  Simply because online retailing offers very strong competition to the major retailers and shopping centre landlords. In the “old” days before the rise of the internet, consumers were basically forced to visit shopping centres and department stores to purchase products.

In those old days mail order wasn’t a serious threat to the established retailers and shopping centres. The delivery of mail order catalogues was time consuming, expensive and typically a “hit or miss” affair. A mail-order retailer knew that the customer was out there, but “connecting” with the consumer in the “pre-internet” days was a real and, at times, insurmountable challenge.

When offered, mail order would most likely be offered by established retailers but only in a tightly controlled manner.

The established major retailers would take great care in not cutting prices or profit margins on products sold through mail order. After all, if customers could get items cheaper through mail order why would they go in and shop in the retailer’s store? The established major retailers were not going to allow mail order to cannibalise sales at their retail outlets.

With mail order kept under tight control and with the absence of real competition from independent mail order-only retailers, the major retailers concentrated on adding retail outlets and buying out their traditional competitors. Through mergers and acquisitions the major retailers got bigger and more powerful thereby allowing them to push up retail prices.

The major retailers dominated the shopping centres and the shopping centre landlords benefitted from consumers being forced to buy from retail outlets in shopping centres. As a result, shopping centre landlords, such as Westfield, also started to become very powerful.

With the ACCC and successive Governments failing to stop the shopping centre landlords from increasing their market power through acquisitions and clever self-interested use of planning and zoning laws the shopping centres became little regional monopolies, especially as the town centre shopping strips started dying off in the face of the shopping centre onslaught.

As the major retailers and shopping centre landlords became increasingly powerful they started to exert their market power. The major retailers were keen to push up retail prices in the same way that shopping landlords were keen to push up retail rents.

That explains why retail prices and rents in Australia are so much higher than those overseas. We have all seen it when shopping overseas while on holidays or when buying from an overseas website. Higher retail rents in Australian shopping centres translates into higher retail prices for the simple reason that shopping centre rents are such a significant cost of doing business in Australia.

So any retailer with an outlet in a major Australian shopping centre is at an immediate disadvantage as compared with overseas retailers. For many it would be surprising to know that CBD retail rents in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane are some of the highest in the world. The rents in Sydney’s Pitt Street Mall precinct, for example, are second only to New York.

That tells you that customers shopping at major Australian shopping centres will be paying much higher prices for products than those overseas. With Australian retailing and shopping centres increasingly dominated by a cosy club of major players, retail prices and rents keep going up and Australian consumers keep getting price gouged.

Confident of their dominant position the major Australian retailers and shopping centre landlords simply told us how “successful” their business model was. Sure, anyone can be successful if they have such a dominant market position that they can keep raising retail prices and rents at the expense of consumers.

The only problem is that confidence led to complacency from the major players.

As Australian major retailers and shopping centres kept raising retail prices and rents their overseas competitors were busily building their online platforms. Amazon.com is perhaps one of the best known examples. Those overseas online platforms are now quite sophisticated and most importantly offer variety and convenience at much lower prices than the Australian shopping centre outlets of the major retailers.

Major Australian retailers have not been so keen to develop online websites offering cheaper prices than those available in their retail outlets. Like mail order in the old days, the major Australian retailers didn’t want to cannibalise sales at their retail outlets. That’s why despite all the threats, major Australian retailers have been slow to develop overseas websites to avoid GST.

Why would an Australian consumer go to an Australian retail outlet if the consumer could buy the same product much cheaper from the major retailer’s overseas, or even local, website? Besides, any overseas website set up by a major Australian retailer would face real competition from the ever-growing competitor websites around the world.

Significantly for consumers, the strong Aussie dollar has highlighted the huge savings from shopping online through an overseas website. This is where the internet has overcome key problems faced by the old-fashioned mail order business. The internet allows consumers to “connect” with an online seller. The consumer can find the online seller and all the online seller has to do is offer confidence and a cheaper price.

That explains the rush of Australian consumers towards online purchases. Contrary to what Gerry and other major retailers may think, removing the $1,000 GST-free threshold for goods imported by consumers won’t stop consumers buying online from overseas websites. The reality is that the savings online are so great that the overseas price can be so much cheaper than the Australian price even if GST was added to consumer imports under $1,000.

Australian consumers are hooked on buying online from overseas websites, and the sooner Gerry and other major retailers realise that, the sooner they can think of innovative ways to offer Australian consumers lower retail prices.

Most commented

353"Gifting", "journey" and other words we hate
309Thomson didn't answer the question everyone is asking
246A big day for Thomson, who thus far is guilty of nothing...
242They must pay for one's bitter disappointments
230Craig Thomson speaks. Meanwhile, in Australia...
230South Australia. It's the middle bottom bit.
224The most laughable, err, spoof since Einfeld
224Punch on: Open thread 17/05/2012

102 comments

Show oldest | newest first

    • Dickerson says:

      05:34am | 19/01/11

      Yeah yeah.

      I buy online from *Australian* sites   - when the price (+delivery) is better than shop floor.  I buy in store, too - and use the on line price to bargain from. 

      Is that your best price? Oh. At yadayada.com.au I can get it for xxx (waves print).

      So how much for cash? How much for the display unit on the floor now? Any marked/dirty units?

      What’s your best price, please? Your best price for cash, now? Will you throw in delivery? Batteries? Memory Card? Case? Etc?

      Bargain, people, Bargain. Never ever offer to pay the sticker price up front. Bargain. Zumbo will hate you, Gerry Harvey will hate you, but shop here and bargain. Make ‘em work for their big fat guts.

      Reply

    • Markus says:

      08:14am | 19/01/11

      Why bother, if at yadayada.com.au I can get it for that price to begin with, without the hassle of paying for parking or putting up with the snotty attitude of another retail employee pretending to know what they are talking about?
      It’s not my job to ensure a company stays competitive, especially one that has shown such disdain for its customer base as someone like Harvey Norman have.

    • Vaunted says:

      08:29am | 19/01/11

      I wish I had $10 for every Australian business that based its selling strategy on lowest prices, and then went broke. Price doesn’t always drive sales; service and quality perception plays a major part, and many consumers are prepared to pay more for a better product and/or more attentive pre and after sales service. What drives online sales is not just price but choice and convenience; you can make a product comparison and purchasing decision from the comfort of your home or office chair, complete the transaction and have the item/s delivered to you door the very next day in most cases. What more could you ask for? The whole arrangement beats heck out of struggling to find a park at Westfields, then trudging for miles past endless vendors of donuts, sticky lollies and coffee with the kids tugging at your trouser legs and the wife angling for another pair of new shoes, only to be ignored by some surly shop assistant preoccupied with sending a text message who eventually and grudgingly imparts the knowledge that they have none in stock but don’t mind placing you on a back order if you pay a deposit. Give me online any day, sorry Gerry.

    • Daniele says:

      08:46am | 19/01/11

      I agree, I normally buy from Aussie on-line shops, so am still paying GST.  But the price difference is usually significant.  Example set of saucepans “on sale” in majors for $200, online including delivery $149.

      The only reason to use a web price as a bargaining tool is if you need it urgently

    • Haggler says:

      09:41am | 19/01/11

      Disagree. Dickerson made good points.

      Buy on line when price and delivery are “right”, when you don’t need to “see” the item, when it’s unlikely you’ll want to *return* it…and make sure the guarantee conditions won’t eat your savings if/when you need service or return. 

      Otherwise? Shop and haggle.

    • Dave says:

      10:31am | 19/01/11

      Zumbo wouldn’t hate anyone for nabbing a bargain - that’s what he’s advocating!!

      I’m terrible at haggling. I suspect most people that buy online are too. Online buying means haggling isn’t necessary =)

    • Bob says:

      05:51am | 19/01/11

      You cite retail rents as the reason for higher prices - but I can still walk down the strip in New York (where rents are higher) and and buy cheaper than Sydney.
      In my experience, it has almost always been the regional pricing policy of the manufacturer which has created the price difference. Me and my friends have started calling it the “Australia tax” - almost everything costs more here - it is ridiculous.

      Reply

    • Vaunted says:

      09:39am | 19/01/11

      Is retail space more expensive in New York? Depends on the site I guess, but I recently did a feasibility study for an Australian operation looking to expand into the UK and I found that retail space in London and other major centres was cheaper than it is in Australia, for comparable sites, many with twice the traffic and more…

    • Sherekahn says:

      10:33am | 19/01/11

      The “information APOCALYPSE” is here.  This is the shake-up Australian retailers need.
      They already are wallowing in 200 to 300% mark up on Chinese goods.  They say they must do this to keep up with rising rents!
      Here is ‘THE RUB,’ property magnates in all Western Nations are the wealthiest section of society.
      Within a few years, it is going to crash!
      Postal and other carriers are going to grow wether GST is added to online purchases or not, simply because choice will become greater than retailers can afford to stock.
      Small-bespoke businesses will come into ‘their own,’ you know!  The ones you saw in Europe on your last visit.

    • Howie says:

      05:57am | 19/01/11

      You would think major retailers would also go online.

      Last time I looked Gerry Harvey didn’t appear to be struggling to pay the bills.

      Reply

    • KH says:

      06:52am | 19/01/11

      It isn’t just retailers though - distributors seem to also be a major part of this puzzle - my own poking around has shown some distributors claim ‘exclusive’ rights on some goods, and thus are able to charge a great deal more to retailers who wish to sell that product, who in turn pass that cost on to consumers, along with a further markup to cover their own costs.  This seems to be overlooked in this argument about the ‘greedy retailers’ - who it appears may not be solely responsible for some of the outrageous prices that you see here in Australia.  How about some action on the ‘greedy distributors’?  After all, if I can import something for a relatively cheap freight cost, how can they justify claiming 200% markups for ‘freight’ per item when they are bringing it in in bulk, which means a cheaper freight price per item?

      Reply

    • AdamC says:

      07:52am | 19/01/11

      KH, I agree, exclusive distribution arrangements are part of the picture too. The overseas manufacturer and local agent/franchisee try to fatten up the margin to share between themelves.

      In general, I think it is sensible that the discussion is moving beyond bagging greedy retailers and examining the range of factors that lead to higher prices in Australia (of which the market power of actual retailers is only one). An important issue is the availability of suitable retail sites.

    • Andrew G says:

      07:55am | 19/01/11

      KH, distributors are a business too and don’t just charge the retailer for freight as they would not make any money. Yes they sign exclusive deals but all parties in the supply chain do., Manufacturers, Distributors and Retailers. If distributors were charging retailers a 200% mark-up then I don’t think the retailers would buy from them, they’d just go direct, so I think you’re exaggerating a little there. It’s more like 10-20% mark-up for a distributor. That’s why I buy on the internet as my work in supply chain has shown me just how many hands a product has to go through to get to a store. No one party is really ‘greedy’, but it’s just inefficient.

    • Markus says:

      08:25am | 19/01/11

      “No one party is really ‘greedy’, but it’s just inefficient”.
      That’s it, but the problem is that they continue to be a part of such an almost corruptly inefficient market system.

      If the consumer can manage to singlehandedly cut out the retailer, distributor and wholesaler in their purchase of a product (who essentially are all just middle men taking their cut), why is it that the retailers, with their bulk buying power, have not found a way to do something similar?

    • KH says:

      08:54am | 19/01/11

      Andrew G - as I said, this was based on my own poking around, on two specific items that I have purchased online recently.  An example -  I purchased the item for $652 in the US - I checked and the highest price I found for this item was $725.  The freight was $160 (it was a large item).  Here, it costs $2,600.  I just coudn’t understand why it was so much more expensive.  The person who runs that store happens to be a friend of my uncle, so when he said that he had to pay $2,400 for the item from the distributor, I would believe it.  I found out the wholesale price from the manufacturer - $560.  So, the manufacturer charges $560.  The US retailer puts their markup of close to $100.  An importer/distributor might have the GST to pay plus the markup, so that still brings the base price up to just over $600 plus maybe a hundred for profit, and even if you had freight of $200, it is still less than $1,000 for this item.  So how come the retailer paid $2,400?!!  That is a pretty steep markup from the distributor, isn’t it?  I can’t believe they had more than $1,400 in ‘costs’ to cover on an item they got for $560.

      Im not suggesting that all distributors do this, but in this case, it was an obvious price gouge, so naturally I got it directly from a retailer overseas - I mean why would I pay $2,600 for an item I can get for $800?  I feel bad for the retailer - it isn’t his fault that he charges so much - he can’t sell it for less than a thousand as he would lose way too much money.  If anyone can justify the distributors actions here, I would love to hear it!!  I’m sure there are plenty of factors, but I just can’t see them in this case.

    • Andrew G says:

      10:11am | 19/01/11

      KH, “That is a pretty steep markup from the distributor, isn’t it?  I can’t believe they had more than $1,400 in ‘costs’ to cover on an item they got for $560. “
      So why doesn’t the local retailer buy direct from the manufacturer? They can’t have an exclusive deal, as you said it was for sale in the US too. Or why doesn’t the local retailer buy from the US like you did, rather then pay $2,400? Sounds a bit fishy to me.

    • Aitch B says:

      10:32am | 19/01/11

      @Andrew G

      In the case of imported goods the manufacturer usually has a an exclusive distribution agreement with a local distributor. This precludes a local dealer buying from the manufacturer - unless he can somehow get it through the ‘back door’ by buying from an overseas dealer.

      I’ve seen that happen and I’ve also seen it all come massively undone when the manufacturer found out…. both the local and overseas dealers lost their accreditaion and could no longer purchase the product.

    • KH says:

      10:42am | 19/01/11

      Aitch B - you are correct - apparently it is one of those ‘exclusive’ deals.  I have other examples as well, where the same problem exists….ultimately, they are shooting themselves in the foot aren’t they, if it drives people to get their own deal o/s?  But that doesn’t seem to matter….....

    • HB says:

      10:46am | 19/01/11

      You are still talking about exclusive distribution rights.  As said earlier some companies have paid for the right to distribute to this region.  Retailers cannot bypass this and if you begin importing large amounts you will pay whatever duties etc that the govt adds on.  We simply don’t buy the same volume as the U.S or U.K and there are better prices the more you buy.  Our wages are higher too.  I can bet no sales assistants get paid $20+ an hour nor do I expect Public Holiday loading bumping up to $40+ an hour in the U.S.  If you really want to see better competition then the minimum wage needs to be scapped and all loadings too.  Our desire to be an affluent nation has lead us down this path yet our population cannot support it.  Staff are the only area many businesses have that they can cut as wholesale prices are not in your control.  I am a small retailer trying to survive in a market controlled by 2 major retailers.  We are the ones who suffer and what little variety there is in the market will disappear with us.

    • Markus says:

      11:00am | 19/01/11

      @Aitch B, sounds like the way drug cartels operate. In a free market there is no place for such operations, and the quicker we can expose these rorts the better.
       
      That said, for products where exclusive distribution rights clearly aren;t the case (as consumers can easily purchase direct from the US company themselves), why are retailers still purchasing from these distributors and wholesalers adding such massive markups?

    • Aitch B says:

      01:35pm | 19/01/11

      @Markus

      I understand what you are saying about a free market however an overseas manufacturer has the right to appoint an exclusive distributor here on many grounds - but in particular in relation to warranty.

      I am very much into guitars and I know of a few agreements where that has been a large part of the deal. The ability to evaluate and repair instruments under warranty to a factory standard is very important to those manufacturers, as is the technical expertise often built up over many years dealing with the products.

      In these circumstances I don’t think you can put the ‘cartel’ tag on the agreement because the manufacturer is protecting his brand name and products. Anybody can flog a guitar and there are many people around who reckon they’re pretty good guitar technicians but aren’t.

      So whilst you talk about exposing cartels and the rorting, there are valid reasons why some agreements are in place and more often than not these work for the end users also. Of course that validity does not necessarily eliminate or reduce the sometimes outrageous margins slapped on by the distributors!!

    • Chris L says:

      11:26pm | 19/01/11

      “Our wages are higher too.” I think, HB, that particular problem is also about to be dealt with. Rather than try to convince your fellow Australians to work for less (not going to happen) you should look toward capitalising on the benefits of the world wide web. Theoretically these benefits will be enhanced by the NBN so please ask your friends at the Liberal party to put Malcolm back in charge. I’ll even vote for them myself if Turnbull’s only challenger is Ms Gillard.

    • Tubesteak says:

      07:48am | 19/01/11

      The funniest thing to come out of this would be if the government called their bluff and announced a comprehensive inquiry into the complete retail experience - from manufacturer/distributor through to shop floor.

      It would expose the gouging at every level if retailers were forced to open their books - put up or shut up.

      It would be reminiscent of old episodes of Yes, Minister.

      Goods aren’t expensive in this country because of labour or rents. Paying some kid $20 an hour to stand at a till isn’t expensive. Gerry Harvey owns all his land and stores so rent’s not a problem for him.

      It’s all about the excessive mark-ups.

      Reply

    • DVD says:

      12:09pm | 19/01/11

      Phil - Retailers cannot bypass the Australian distributors nor the Office of Film and Literature as all DVD’s sold must be classified before release.  DVD retailers make very little profit - I should know I am one.

    • Phil says:

      08:03am | 19/01/11

      I bought a dvd online from the US $18.99 and $13.00 shipping.

      Same dvd here around the corner…$65…

      I waited the six weeks for delivery.

      Australia…the rip off country.

      Reply

    • Rev says:

      11:05am | 19/01/11

      Yep.

      What really drive me up the wall is the price differential on iTunes, despite parity between the USD and AUD.  And they wonder why Australian’s are such proficient at pirating copyright material

    • ibast says:

      08:09am | 19/01/11

      It’s not just price either.  It’s the shopping environment.  Shopping centres are not designed for men.  They are designed for women and teenagers.  Men hate shopping centres.  Is it any wonder they buy on line.  5 minutes online will have something on your doorstep within a few days.  That’s 5 minutes of your time invested.  A trip to a shopping centre is a stressful exercise that typically takes up half of you Saturday.

      And as for Harvey Norman, you just have to look at some of the consumer websites to understand why he is struggling.

      Reply

    • KH says:

      09:12am | 19/01/11

      I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again - I would rather have hot bamboo sticks shoved under my toenails than spend time in a place like Chadstone!!! Shopping in those kinds of places, and even just generally, is one of the most loathsome experiences I can imagine.  All fashion is ugly and designed for tasteless 15 year olds.  You can’t just buy nice things unless you can afford top end designers (which I can’t).  I literally wear shoes until they fall apart, so much do I detest shoe shopping.  And I am not a man…...............

    • James1 says:

      09:29am | 19/01/11

      I want to hear from Eric on this issue.

    • heather says:

      10:01am | 19/01/11

      women hate them too; i’d rather have root canal without anaesthetic, than go to a shopping mall, all the bogans and screaming children, aaaaargh

    • Catching up says:

      10:19am | 19/01/11

      Many woman hate themtoo.  Ihave grand kids that hate shopping centres too.

    • Bilby says:

      10:47am | 19/01/11

      I think that’s a huge point that some smart retailers understand. I’ll willingly pay a premium for the privilege of NOT shopping at a mall or major supermarket. I don’t want to be there long enough to eat. I don’t want to browse. I don’t want to walk a kilometre from my car to the one shop I want to visit. Just get what I came for (which I have already researched) and leave.

      KH - Vinnies is the place for shoes. My wife has been forced into a “one pair in, one pair out” situation because of the wealth of quality, unworn (not a scratch on the sole), nice shoes at craaaaazy prices.

    • Markus says:

      11:05am | 19/01/11

      KH, Punch commenters, both men and women, are not representative of the majority of the population. Thus a lot of the generalisations about attitudes/actions of people will not apply.
      Doesn’t mean they aren’t true for most people.

    • Jade says:

      11:58am | 19/01/11

      ibast… my boyfriend would agree with you there. Its a rarity for me to get him any where near a shopping centre and if I do its because he needs something and its always straight in and straight out. No browsing…

      Me on the other hand love shopping… would love it more if there were no ferel children being yelled at by there even more ferel parents or the people who stop to have a family/friend reunion in the middle of the walkways.

    • Eva says:

      12:32pm | 19/01/11

      Bilby I do the same as your wife as I only have room for 50 pairs. Gets very hard to work out which I like the least when a new pair comes into the home.

      I loathe shopping centres with their identical look, layout and shops. They only have a use on the very hot or cold days to avoid increasing my energy use at home.

    • Bugalug says:

      01:18pm | 19/01/11

      @James1

      I agree entirely, there is definitely a whiff those feminazis getting one over the males of this world (again…).  Is nowhere a safe haven from oppression???

    • ibast says:

      03:36pm | 19/01/11

      James1 and Bugalug, The statement is not intended that way at all.  I think shopping centre designers have very much identified their target market and have gone out of their way to maximize that.  The cost of that targeting has been the general exclusion of adult men.  I’m sure many women feel the same way.  Of course I’m talking generalities here, but that what the marketing people and designers are working with.  It’s hard to deny that men and women, in general, respond to different marketing tactics.

    • dtcMCMLXXII says:

      08:12am | 19/01/11

      The comparisons with the US are not necessarily the whole story as there are many differences netween the retail markets in Australia and the US. For Example:
      Chinese manufacturers tend to sell their goods to US importers significantly cheaper than they do to other countries. There are a number of reasons for this, the most obvious being volume. But smaller manufacturers will sell products to the US effectively at cost, so as to be able to tell their second and third market customers that they supply big US importers. This is important for them to be able to win business (and charge much higher prices for it) in the rest of the world.
      This effect applies not only to the actual consumer product, but also to the enabling products that also affect the price of retail goods, like the packaging, warehousing consumables, transport consumables, shop displays etc that are used in getting the product to market
      The bottom line is that the US consumer is the big winner.
      It’s not a simple matter of saying that the retailers are gouging and so are the shopping centre owners, there is more to it than that. However, as always, reduced regulation and active reduction of barriers to entry will always allow greater competition and lead to a better deal for the Aussie consumer. On line retailing avoids lots of regulations and is easy to get into, so it is providing some of the needed competition.

      Reply

    • Justin says:

      08:18am | 19/01/11

      The power of retailers in Australia has lead to the disappearance of the recommended retail price (RRP) appearing on most items (known as Suggested Retail in the US). The suppliers used to set the maximum retail price for their item & the retailers could then sell it for anything up to that price.

      Now that the power has shifted, the retailers have demanded the ability to set the retail price as they see fit, so the RRP has all but disappeared. They have also pushed for exclusive items that allow them to offer a completely hollow lowest price guarantee as the specific item can’t be bought anywhere else, so it’s not cheaper anywhere else. Think odd number packs of batteries, jumbo packs of weed spray with a bonus 58%, lounges or mattresses with model names only seen at a particular outlet (despite the identical model being called something else somewhere else), that sort of thing.

      I bought some clothes from the US & the stark example was the 3-packs of Nike sport socks I got. Here, the same or near identical pairs of socks sell for $12-13 for a single pair. On a great day of massively reduced price sales, you may get them for $10. From JC Penney in the US, a 3-pack was reduced to US$10 from a suggested retail (as it said on their packaging) of US$12. GST, duty, freight (from Pakistan….) all added does not equate to a 200% mark up.

      When Rebel Sport & its main “competitor” A-Mart Star Sports are owned by the same company, the 200% mark up in the price of socks makes you wonder what else they are up to (like the 100% mark up in T-shirts, the at least 50% mark up in shoes, etc.).

      Reply

    • Cofused Fuddy Duddy says:

      09:09am | 19/01/11

      Justin I think your RRP comments may not be accurrate.
      Manufacturers/Wholesalers/Distributors do in fact set (In may instances) a Recomended Retail Price.
      What they cannot do is set either a maximium or a minimum or a set retail price! This is known as Retail Price Fixing and is specifically illegal uner Trade Practices Law.

    • Justin says:

      09:53am | 19/01/11

      Confused Fuddy Duddy (I’ll leave that alone),

      The recommended retail price is the set maximum price - they are allowed to set the maximum, but not the minimum. These days, even if it is provided, it’s rarely, if ever, printed on the product or the packaging.

      Go & have a look at a paperback book that is 10 years old & it will have a recommended price actually printed on it. Then look at a new one. You can even comparison shop between the book outlets (e.g. Dymocks & A&R) & often find them quoting different RRPs for the same book. If the RRP was still printed on the books, that wouldn’t be possible. All that removal has done is allowed the retailers to offer pretend discounts that aren’t easily verified. That practice is illegal under the trade practices act, but setting an RRP or maximum price isn’t - in fact, for the benefit of the consumer, it should be mandatory.

      The tail is wagging the dog.

    • Aitch B says:

      09:58am | 19/01/11

      Correct although these days it’s often called MRP - Maximum Resale Price (some might say Manufacturer’s Recommended Price) - and there is no obligation by the retailer to comply with that price..

      What the Manufacturers/Wholesalers/Distributors also cannot do is set a minimum advertised price. They can, however, apply to the Trade Practices Commission for action where they believe they can prove that an advertised price is detrimental to their brand.

    • Rossco says:

      08:21am | 19/01/11

      Doesn’t the Australian market, by paying higher prices, help to subsidise the lower prices in markets such as those in the UK and US?  I think this is much the case with video games. Steam offers a game to Australia for 80 dollars, whereas it’s 50 American. Same product, no packaging, all digital download…doesnt make sense.

      Reply

    • Zach says:

      09:23am | 19/01/11

      Steam does not have a different price reigon for Australia.

    • Ben21 says:

      09:32am | 19/01/11

      Exactly. It’s a giant rort. Not to mention that you’re forced to pay AUD because Steam knows your region and won’t allow you to pay in USD. It even redirects you to the .au steam store when you navigate to the US page.

    • Rossco says:

      09:54am | 19/01/11

      Well to get technical it’s the publishers who control the pricing in different countries across Steam.

    • Ironside says:

      10:21am | 19/01/11

      @ Zach, yes they do, it is something they have in their terms and conditions as a part of your account, read your fine print, the reason for this is so as not to undercut the retail stores supplied by their publishers. The question should be asked why do retail stores pay so much for games…..100 dollars vs 50-60 in the states as has been stated several times above, the additional costs dont add up to a 100% mark up

    • TheRealDave says:

      02:35pm | 19/01/11

      Zach. try checking the price of the same game on the us steam store and then the au steam store. And then come back and say that.

      the trick with steam is to put in a US address and postcode and hope it doesn’t recognise your VISA as Australian ... google can help with buying from the US store wink

    • Shifter says:

      01:09pm | 20/01/11

      @Zach @Ironside

      Only certain distributors do this. 2K is a prime example. Others (EA from memory) have identical prices in all regions.

      The reason for the price difference is backlash from bricks and mortar stores to certain distributors in Australia. The exclusive distribution rights of middle man companies has been discussed in a few different comments above.

      Fortunately there’s the import option, but you lose the resale-ability on your purchase in that case.

    • Sad Sad Reality says:

      08:29am | 19/01/11

      In my youth, I have worked for the great one they call Gerry Harvey, and let me say, I found the guy quite lovely.

      Of course he was merely a used up old vacuum salesman with the shifty eyes of a high rolling grifter…

      and of course he didn’t speak a single word to me over the three years I was in his charge, preferring to yell at all the staff in his direct orbit before giving irate comments to the media…

      and of course his idea of advertising was stale when graphic artists had to actually draw the couches into the trashy catalogues…

      and of course he dressed like a 85-year old track jockey with a 20 pack a day habit…

      and of course his wife was a former secretary he upgraded to CEO of Domayne because she was the only woman capable of feigning love for him…

      and of course he made the universe a more cold and lonely place just by existing…

      I forget what I was trying to say. Oh yes, Gerry, or as he liked to be known, “the one who can’t be named” was wonderful.

      Reply

    • Chewy says:

      08:33am | 19/01/11

      Frank the other Elephant in the room is wages, super, workers comp and othe compliance costs add alot to the cost of goods.
      Buying online is effectively a vote for a reduction in pay and conditions.
      It simple amazes me how many Australians screem “rip off” with out understanding they themselves are partly to blame.
      We could always scrap medicare, super and bring minimum wages downt to $5 an hour to compete with the USA.  The trouble is most Australians want to have their cake and eat it too.

      Reply

    • Justin says:

      10:04am | 19/01/11

      They are valid arguments & ones often made when discussing the issue amongst friends, but where do where do the BS & reality lines intersect? How big a premium should we be paying?

      While the items you mention are valid, it’s not like it’s completely the wild west in the US where they don’t have any costs. Hell, they’re way more protective of their manufacturing industry then we are, so they’ve paid duties on the items coming in to the US for a start. They have rents, they have wages, they have 401k’s (equivalent of super), they have strong union activism, they have state taxes (in some examples).

      Yes, our system is more expensive, but it’s not apples vs oranges, it’s big, juicy apples vs smaller, less tasty apples.

      I always come to the figure of about a 20% premium as being reasonable. You’ll see examples I’ve outined in an earlier post of 50, 100 & 200% markups - sorry, but someone along the way is profiteering in a major way.

    • Grumpy says:

      12:09pm | 19/01/11

      The $5 an hour jobs are in restaurants and cafes and places where they receive tips. I worked at big W when i was studying and most of the people who worked there were in highschool..They got paid like $7 an hour. there was about 5 of us in my department over 18 who were on around $12 an hour. Its exactly the same, no difference…the only thing these Australian businesses are happy to compete with is the profits they make that compare to the biggest companies in the world. Why? Because they rip Australians off and why does this happen? Well, Australians are stupid, gullible and anyone who speaks out is met by criticism. “she’ll be right mate”

    • David of the Grand Academy of Adelagado. says:

      08:44am | 19/01/11

      If you buy online from an Australian website you pay GST. If you buy anything from overseas thats over $1000 including freight you pay GST. The only time you avoid GST is if you buy something from overseas thats less than $1000.  My guess is that the vast bulk of online sales are from Australian sites so the buyers are paying GST. So the complaints of G.Harvey etc are largely misleading.

      Reply

    • Swindrilled says:

      01:15pm | 19/01/11

      Am I missing something here or is Australia the only nation in the world where the Govt gets a direct slice of the action via GST, sales tax or whatever you wish to call it. If other countries also tax sales (as I believe is generally the case) then someone buying overseas online is paying that here too. So what the big retailers seem to be really wanting is to force us to be slugged twice for buying from O/S. Also, let’s not forget that online shopping is still ‘mail order’ insofar as the Internet and emailing have essentially turned our post offices into parcel services and the extra margin cost for that mode is not insignificant. I just had to buy some speciific metal cleaning products from the US that the local distributor stopped importing years ago (even though the items are still listed on their website) - and the freight cost component is more expensive than the products themselves. For the record, I only buy items via foreign websites that I can’t get here readily - but sad to say that’s lots, whether due to smaller economies of scale or lack of local vision or efficiencies, whatever.

    • RT says:

      01:30pm | 19/01/11

      Swindrilled, yes you are missing something. I believe GST/VAT is present in at least the following countries: UK and the entire European Union, India, NZ, Canada, USA, Mexico. Worse, in many of these places, the advertised retail price does not include the tax, which is added on at the cash register.

      VAT/GST only applies to the retail sale, not wholesale, so you wouldn’t be paying twice for overseas purchases.

    • hermes says:

      08:46am | 19/01/11

      Some of the worst offenders are book/DVD/CD stores - why should I buy locally if it is double the price, and the item is usually not in stock anyway? I wanted a book the other day, and tried everywhere locally - not only was it not in stock, and I had to wait up to 6 weeks for delivery; it was also double the price of Amazon (including postage)! And this was not exactly a rare book, but a COOK BOOK, by JAMIE OLIVER, that is currently ON TV!!! And I tried to buy this in a capital city, not some rural hamlet.

      Also, local retailers have shockingly bad websites; to browse/order online from one large outdoor goods retailer, you have to download a pdf, hand write your order, and POST IT. What century are they living in?

      But you can usually get great deals in furniture retailers by playing the big stores against each other, and paying cash. I just bought a fridge $500 less than the company recommended price by playing HN, Joyce Mayne and Good Guys against each other.

      Perhaps what should also be investigated is the proliferation of a thousand year interest free deals…these cost retailers money, and limit cash flow.

      Reply

    • St. Michael says:

      11:49am | 19/01/11

      Re: books - book publishing has been a rort for many years now.  They’ll get their comeuppance sooner or later when somebody figures out an efficient way to categorise fiction and nonfiction books and then connect authors direct with readers via the Internet.  When that happens, self-publishing and self-distribution will be the order of the day, and authors will start getting paid a fair portion of the profit made on their book.

    • Sludger says:

      12:35pm | 19/01/11

      True, I self publish to order.  You buy my book online, it is printed and mailed out to you within the week.  My 620 page book will get to your door for $21.55 and that is after my $5 profit.  Remember, this is one/of printing on demand, so somebody is making a hell of a profit here in good old Aussie Land. Oh, my books are printed and mailed from New Zealand, so factor that in your postage too.

    • Andy says:

      08:56am | 19/01/11

      Our Chinese-made clothes that are sold here in Aust are of a much poorer quality and dearer than those sold in the U.S (also Chinese made). I can’t justify paying $30 to $50 for a T-shirt here, when a better quality name branded item in the US can be picked up for less than $20. Why are Levis jeans in the U.S $30 a pair, but over $100 in Aust. Food is expensive here too, a Drumstick ice-cream in the U.S is around $1.50, here it’s $3.80 and our version is much smaller.  Australia - The land of the rip-off.

      Reply

    • dave charlesworth says:

      11:52am | 19/01/11

      Good point Andy re the size of the Drumsticks, I’ve wondering for quite a while now, just how much smaller can manufacturers make food, ie: ice cream, Big Macs, Muesli bars etc etc, before someone notices… hey I just did.

    • Lisa H. says:

      03:57pm | 19/01/11

      Every time i buy clothing online from an overseas store, I’m surprised at the high quality of the materials.

    • Brewstermac says:

      09:56am | 19/01/11

      On line shopping every time but not for the price, time saved or getting newer products but because I don’t have to look at people with calf tattoos milling around all day on the off chance they can shop lift something.

      Reply

    • TheRealDave says:

      09:56am | 19/01/11

      You can have US prices here tomorrow if you want - as long as you work for US wages.

      Yeah, I wouldn’t either wink

      Reply

    • notinretail says:

      11:05am | 19/01/11

      Sweet! How do we arrange this? US wages for my profession are better than they are here. Would it make houses cheaper too? This is sounding better and better all the time.

    • Grumpy says:

      11:42am | 19/01/11

      so i could get a 6pack of beer and a packet of smokes for $10 if i was willing to work for around half my wage now? DONE! and DONE! ..

    • Paul Horn says:

      03:24pm | 19/01/11

      Not to mention the fact that scrapping the perfidious minimum wage increases employment. Let the market dictate what it can pay. In the UK in the early 90’s were it not for the fat that they did not have a minimum wage I would never have been employed. 

      Sure working in a kitchen scrubbing pots for 3 bucks an hour was back breaking work but it was certainly better than sitting on my arse waiting for a Governent handout…...or perhaps not! 

      Anyway let the market pay what it can bear!

    • papachango says:

      04:14pm | 19/01/11

      Rubbish - wages of retail staff are a small fraction of the cost of goods, or they should be if the store is set out properly. It doesn’t explain the vast difference between prices here and the US or Asia for the same goods.

      Look at IKEA - they are very competitive price wise, but I presume they pay their staff Australian wages. Ditto The Good Guys and Aldi.

      Some of these like IKEA get away by having less staff and encouraging customer self-service, yet I’ve found IKEA to be a much better shopping experience than DJs, Harvey Norman or Myer. The latter just don’t have their act together - go shop at Carrefour in France, Sainsburys or Marks and Spencer in the Uk to see how retail should be run. They’re far more competitve on prices too.

    • Catching up says:

      10:22am | 19/01/11

      Most can earn higher wages elsewhere than they would earn when working in retail.

      Reply

    • incervisiaveritas says:

      10:22am | 19/01/11

      I have read all of the comments on this story. I couldn’t find one which supported the retailers so I thought I’d see if I could put in a good word for there poor souls (particularly the ever-whigeing Gerry Harvey).

      But I couldn’t think of anything to support the reatilers argument/s.

      So, I haven’t.

      Reply

    • Leigh says:

      10:22am | 19/01/11

      We Australians have always been charged too much for just about everything for years. Australians are only just waking up to this, and it’s good to see them buying online - not so much on overseas sites, but on the many Australian sites now available. I buy from Australian sites, who obviously have to pay GST, and they are still cheaper, AND I don’t have to put up with rude, disinerested shop assistants who know nothing about the products they sell. As for the ACCC, get rid of it and put the savings to flood towards flood reparations.

      Reply

    • Futureproof says:

      10:36am | 19/01/11

      It’s not just retailers.  I went into a Newsagent to purchase a diary.  Since most of January is gone, I asked for a discount. Their answer no.  I wasn’t prepared to pay over $10 for a diary for 2011.  So two doors down, a bookshop had much better diaries - Collins for 70% off.  So I walked out the door with a big fancy diary for $7.  Same diary at Newsagent, $25.

      Reply

    • Stan Wills says:

      10:41am | 19/01/11

      Gerry
            the $50-00 I save online is going to feed , clothe, educate my kids . We don’t own any horses or retail chains and have to work for every penny , and if I can save a little I sure as hell will not pay top price to feed your ego .

      Reply

    • Your name: john says:

      11:18am | 19/01/11

      at least you have the luxury of a credit card to buy online, I went to coles and got bake beans on special for a $1, I wont go hungry for a while. I like many people rely on the specials of woolies ,coles, auldi etc

    • Jane says:

      02:06pm | 19/01/11

      Eslake is quoting average retail wages of $24 per hour in Australia - judging from comments by friends and a quick flick through a few retail awards, I can’t see many shop assistants earning anything like this much.  Maybe this figure is being skewed by higher wages at the top?

    • Lisa H. says:

      04:05pm | 19/01/11

      $24 it sounds reasonable per-hour cost to me, once you have factored in super, holidays and loadings for sundays, overtime for longer shifts etc

    • ComeOn says:

      11:49am | 19/01/11

      It’s not just imported goods. A bottle of coke in Australia costs $3.50, while the same item in the USA sells for $1.20 at the most. As people have said, we’re just being gouged because we’re Australian.

      Having said that, I think a large part of the reason is that no-one is prepared to settle for anything less than a new car, big house, and the latest in technological gadgets, which means they demand high wages and salaries. Some jobs just aren’t worth $20, $40, or $100 an hour.

      Reply

    • St. Michael says:

      11:51am | 19/01/11

      So the summary of this article is: live by the gouge, die by the gouge.

      Don’t bother with the ACCC.  They’re a pathetic, toothless tiger and their conviction rate won’t be any better than ASIC and/or the Commonwealth DPP - mercantile barons have too much cash and the Government has too few good lawyers.

      Instead, let the market issue the coup de grace to retailing.  The Internet is one of the few things on the planet it’s impossible to meaningfully get around, because nation-states will never cooperate sufficiently to control it materially.

      Reply

    • Kerrie O'Rourke says:

      12:06pm | 19/01/11

      As prices go up constantly,workers work harder to get money for the bills .
      Workers end up worse off each day.Workers never get ahead.

      Reply

    • grumpy old man says:

      12:08pm | 19/01/11

      In the last year, I have significantly changed my buying habits. Firstly, when I have to shop in a supermarket, I look for the ‘2 for ‘specials, and also the per kg price. Instance: Coffee 100 grams, $7, 400 grams, $15.
      Secondly. If I have to buy from the major chains, I will only buy when they have a sale on, that way I’ll buy at what should be a normal price.
      Thirdly, whenever possible I’ll compare on line with store bought. An example, a major bookstore had 3 books I wanted, total price $120, Amazon, $43, including frieght!.
      Finally, I’m over the lack of service in stores. Went into a major department store on the weekend to buy new shoes. Figured, go in, see what I want, try on my size, pay , walk out, should be no more than 20 mins. BUT..no staff, took a walk around the store to find someone, they didn’t work in that department, so they went off to find someone. Never seen again. After 20 mins, just left. I’ll take the risk and buy on line.

      Reply

    • eva says:

      12:43pm | 19/01/11

      grumpy old man,

      if that store you visited was Myers then I am not surprised. Although I am a shoe addict I have never bought a pair there. There are never any sales staff. I have begun to believe that Myers uses it’s shoe department as a tax avoidance scheme as it certainly doesn’t want any one to purchase from the huge range of footwear on display.

    • Thommo says:

      12:36pm | 19/01/11

      Isn’t everyone just using shopbot or a similar sales searcher and just buying from the cheapest seller? that’s how I’ve saved about $5000 over the last two years. Best saving was a panasonic Lumix - $1299 retail in shops here, I got it $800 online from an AUSTRALIAN online store including GST. Seems the rent is the real reason

      Reply

    • Mike says:

      12:36pm | 19/01/11

      Frank, as I am sure you are aware, Gerry Harvey gets 17% for each and every item that gets put onto shelves in his stores, as a minimum. This does not include rebates, promotion contributions, prime location premiums etc. This means before the actual shop (or Franchisee) that sells the goods makes its margin, Gerry gets a clean 17%.

      Do the maths - Gerry is on a pretty good deal whether the stores make the sale or not Gerry still gets 17% as well as all the promotional costs and advertising costs covered. And we compalin about banks making an extra 1 percent or so. Just be thankful Harvey does not have any control of a bank!

      Reply

    • A free cat with every dog purchased between 2011&2 says:

      12:59pm | 19/01/11

      @Mike,so its 17% plus GST,so its 18.7%,plus his Wife alleged CEO is on a Motza,dont shop there even if it is 50 years interest free(not)

    • Buy 1 get 37 free says:

      12:38pm | 19/01/11

      If the Big retailers want to get the customers back perhaps the publication of the advertising cost per product should be on the sales docket along with the GST,after all the customer pays for this,including advertorials

      Reply

    • Pro Fisherman says:

      01:05pm | 19/01/11

      This maybe give you some insight into a major food chain,who else but Woolies.I am a professional fisherman.Woolworths and Coles refuse to stock our local product in their stores for most of the year as they have a preference towards imported product,when occassionally they do ,we are paid about $10 to $12 a kg, about what it costs us to produce it.You can then walk in their store and sea this product retailing for $34 to $36 a kg.Poeple wonder why they cant afford Australian seafood.

      Reply

    • dtcMCMLXXII says:

      02:22pm | 19/01/11

      Why would you sell it to them for cost?

    • Eva says:

      02:30pm | 19/01/11

      That explains why I can only ever buy salmon when I want to buy fish from the major grocery chains. I refuse to buy fish that is from the seas around china and those stores only ever seem to have fish from the Philippines and china.

    • The Badger says:

      03:45pm | 19/01/11

      And to you fish and chips aficionados, I recently went down to a popular tourist precinct on the ocean in Perth. I wanted some fish and chips, but the first thing I did when I got into the shop was ask what sort of fish they had and where their fish was from.
      In case you don’t know, WA is a major exporter of fish. I expected them to tell me it was from somewhere up the Northwest coast.  All of them told me they only had basa fish which is farmed in the Mekong river in Vietnam. In case you don’t know, basa or silver cobbler in the UK have been found to contain heavy metals including Mercury, because of industry dumping waste into the river.  In March 2007, The Australian Quarantine and Inspection Service surveyed 100 fish from this river and detected 14 antimicrobial chemicals at low levels, including sulphonamides, tetracyclines, malachite green, penicillin, quinolones, flouroquinolones and phenicols antimicrobial chemical groups. Regarding these findings, Peter Collignon, director of microbiology and infectious diseases at the Australian National University medical school reports that “this means antibiotics were used in the production of those fish and superbugs can develop and they can remain in the fish and come across to people and cause problems.”

      Woolworths and coles sell basa fish and most fish and chip shops will sell it to you if you just order fish and chips, because it’s one of the cheapest fish they can buy and maximizes profit margins.

      I was told by one proprietor that the big fish producers won’t sell local fish because fish and chip shops don’t buy the volume.

      Want to find out about the dangers of eating this fish, just search for “basa fish”

    • hermes says:

      01:32pm | 19/01/11

      It has very little to do with the origin of the goods, it has to do with price, service and convenience. If a retail outlet sells an identical product at double -or more- the price of online, I will buy online. If I have to drive around for an hour to find a park, then brave the screaming bogans in a shopping mall, I will buy online. If I am treated like a moron by some surly teenager who knows nothing about the product they are selling, that is, if I can even FIND a shop assistant, I will shop online. If I go to a shop to buy a product, I want to take that product home TODAY; and if I am told it is out of stock or floor stock, and I can only get it in 6 weeks time, I will buy online. And if I have to download some form and write on it, I will buy online…from another store.

      For example, my local bike shop is quite expensive, but they always greet me by name, and don’t try and rip me off; so I always return. And I buy stuff at my local office supply store, because the clerks are honest, and one even told me to go to Myer because it had the same product cheaper! And I always buy CDs and books from Amazon because Australian retailers are the biggest ripoff artists, and they never have the stuff in stock anyway. And I always buy computer goods online from Australian retailers.

      Reply

    • Bara Mundy says:

      01:40pm | 19/01/11

      @ pro fish   How dare you ask for value for money or a fair market price,The CEO(not elected by shldrs) must receive and is entitled to his 34mil a year ,media and advertising should be considered before you because without them we would not know what a fish is or where to buy them.  Start a co.op, stuff them

      Reply

    • Pleasure O'Reilly says:

      01:40pm | 19/01/11

      yes pro, thanks to Gerry we now know about his industry, while ACA and Today tonight have generally kept us up to date on how the major supermarkets rip off the manufacturer, producer and finally, the consumer. An absolute disgrace.
      My protest is to shop at the markets, NQR, hell, anywhere else but these sharks!

      Reply

    • Mike says:

      01:56pm | 19/01/11

      Manufacturers pay a premium to get

      1. Exposure to the public (in the touch and demonstrate sense)
      2. Volume sales
      3. A friendly face with some knowledge of the product they are selling

      It has now got to a stage where most goods that are well known can survise quite well without the added impost of the retail channel. Most of these big retailers have staff that treat customers like idiots or tell them fibs to get the sale. Wheras online shopping can give you user reviews and reports that are much more honest than what you will get at a retail store.

      Those fresh faced teenagers that have never been trained properly or have an attitude that the world owes them a living or are just plain downright ill mannered are not doing the likes of Myers, DJ’s, Good Guys, JB’s etc any good. Online shopping is a growing industry that has found consumers flocking to it. It can only grow.

      My suggestion to the retailers. Train your staff better and get rid of the ones that have an attitude problem, these staff are now just like Public Servants -  Aloof, dismissive and unhelpful! This means that probably 70% of the staff would have to retrained or gotten rid of.

      Reply

    • RossH says:

      02:16pm | 19/01/11

      My heart goes out to the likes of Gerry Harvey. Those lost sales could have paid for the next shampoo of the carpet lining for the hubcaps of the Rolls. Oh, the poor dear.

      As for the ACCC failing, come on - this is the same lot who tried to tell us that the oil companies aren’t doing anything wrong. That of course was good old Prof Fels, the same chap who claimed that anyone who didn’t agree with his view on Parallel Import Restrictions on books, was ‘ignorant’ and ‘uneducated’ ie ie too bum-f*ck arrogant to see the real world.

      Reply

    • ana says:

      03:07pm | 19/01/11

      I wish you could buy petrol online..

      Reply

    • James Hunter says:

      05:24pm | 19/01/11

      It is the Capitalist system, It is designed to make fat profits for the share holders   nevr to help the customer . never forget that is the SOLE AIM of the Hardly normals and Mainly Joyces of the world. Cash IN Their Pockts.

      I prefer to shop in the “Main Street” whenever I can as the retailers there are friendlier the prices better ,without Westfields hugmongeous slab and I can PARK right outside.

      Bu the by Bing Lee have a decent online shop and the prices are pretty decent too.

      For groceries I shop at Aldi and then Franklins or IGA. The Big (fat) Two are for emergencies only.
      Why buy rump steak at Woolies for $28.00 /kg when EVERY DAY at Aldi it is $(.95 ??? The poor farmer only gets $3.00 per kg no matter what.
      Other thing is where possible buy at the factory door. Lots of places Matress Factories/ Furnature, Chicken , Small goods, all available if you suss them out and stock the freezer fromm time to time.You get better quality/freshness and prices.

      Reply

    • papachango says:

      09:07pm | 19/01/11

      Hate to break it to ya, but Aldi, Bing Lee, the high street shops, and the overseas online retailers are all capitalists, in fact they are far more capitalistic than Harvey Norman and DJs who are running to the government to intervene in the free market in order to protect their profit margins.

      It’s the capitalist system, aided by new technology that is itself a product of capitalism,  that is providing cheaper prices to consumers via alternative channels and breaking the big retailers’ monopolies.

    • Cryo my banana says:

      08:17pm | 19/01/11

      Groceries such as fruit and veg should be labelled (box container carton )the approx date of harvest,,pretty sure alot of this produce is cryoed and sold off when suitable up to two years later,the managers seem to suffer memory loss if you catch them in the isles,all very suss

      Reply

    • Bananas says:

      07:30am | 20/01/11

      You can’t “cryo” a banana or any fruit for that matter.

    • Cyro says:

      08:50am | 20/01/11

      @ Banana ,Never frozen an orange?

      Reply

    • Deb says:

      12:50pm | 20/01/11

      My husband recently went looking for safety chaps to use when cutting wood with a chainsaw on our property.  The cheap Chinese pair on sale at the local hardware super-retailer cost the same as the competition standard US pair he ordered over the internet, including postage.  GST is not the issue - we are being ripped off for rubbish here, and the internet has allowed us to realise it.

      Reply
 
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