Illustration: Bill Leak

Editor’s note: Malcolm Turnbull has a huge fight on his hands this Sunday when the Coalition has an extraordinary party room meeting to decide whether to negotiate with the Rudd Government on the Emissions Trading Scheme. Kevin Andrews is one of many Liberals who, contrary to Mr Turnbull, think the Bill should at least be delayed until after Copenhagen.

Let me pose a simple question about the ETS. By how much will the price of a litre of milk and a loaf of bread increase once the ETS is introduced?

And let me give you the simple answer: No-one knows! But increase in price they will, because Mr Rudd’s ETS is a tax on everything.

The respected financial commentator, Terry McCrann, estimates that the ETS is equivalent to initially raising the GST to 12.5 per cent.

But he warns “there is no cap on this invidious version of a GST. The effective rate could double or triple, the amount of money raised could skyrocket. Indeed, it is intended to do exactly that, with no referral back to Parliament for endorsement.”

A brief to the Victorian Treasurer estimates that electricity costs will increase between 26 and 46 per cent. This increase will cascade through the economy, affecting almost everything.

The Rudd government has refused to release another report about the hike in electricity costs. The ETS is a massive tax hike.

Worse than this, the ETS will destroy much of our competitive advantage as a nation.

It is worthwhile remembering some sobering statistics about China, whose economy will not be subject to an ETS/tax:

China’s reliance on coal as a primary source of energy is reflected in the fact that coal makes up 69 per cent of China’s total primary energy consumption;

China has an average of two new coal fired power stations opening every week, with another 500 under construction;

In 2007, China edged ahead of the United States as the world’s leading emitter of greenhouse pollution;

If unabated, by 2030 China’s emissions will grow by 139 per cent and make up 26 per cent of the world total emissions output; and

China claims that it will be a developing country for at least the next 50 years and will therefore not agree to be subject to the Kyoto Protocol.

Why on earth would Australia impose upon itself a job and economy-destroying ETS when developing countries such as China will continue to grow and pollute unabated?

None of this has been explained by Mr Rudd. Instead, he insists that Australia enact his job destroying, high taxing legislation before the rest of the world.

He cannot even wait until December when the nations of the world meet in Copenhagen to discuss climate change.

In July, the Coalition issued nine principles about an ETS. In addition, we have repeatedly stressed that there should be no Australian legislation before the Copenhagen climate change conference, due in December.

In simple language: No legislation before Copenhagen; and relative to the rest of the world, no detriment to Australian industry and no loss of Australian jobs.

The Copenhagen conference begins on December 7 – less than two months away. The US Congress will not have enacted legislation before Copenhagen. Nor will any other major emitting nation.

Despite this, Mr Rudd insists that Australia, with less than 2 per cent of world emissions, legislates beforehand. Yet he cannot tell us what the real cost will be to Australians.

The reality is that Mr Rudd’s proposals will be a tax on everything. It will cascade through the tax system, adding a massive cost to business, and hence goods and services, in Australia.

It will make the GST look like a minor imposition by comparison. Mr Rudd’s tax on everything will cost us dearly. At the very least, we should not be enacting his legislation until after Copenhagen.

And if he insists otherwise, the Opposition should campaign on the tax increases and job destroying consequences of the legislation. When the Australian people realise the con that Kevin Rudd is engaged in, their views will harden against it.

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59 comments

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    • WHR says:

      05:35am | 16/10/09

      Kev, you are right. The ETS is even more regressive than the GST.

    • watty says:

      05:49am | 16/10/09

      I think Bill Leak may have got it wrong.The person doing the wedging of the Coalition is Turnbull himself.

    • iansand says:

      05:51am | 16/10/09

      I’m frightened.  Mission accomplished.  Carry on.

    • Michelle says:

      06:15am | 16/10/09

      Andrews.  You are a dill.  Your anti ALP views are *yawn* expected and unevitabely disappointing.

      You should be more responsible.  Scaremongering.  Shame on you.

    • Wayne H says:

      06:21am | 16/10/09

      Look, up in the sky! It’s a bird, no, it’s a plane, no, it’s super KEV! Saviour of our people! Defender of the human race! The world is safe once again because Kevy has got this great plan see! Full of holes but that don’t matter.  Lies, lies and more lies..so much spin I’m getting giddy. You just keep those blinkers on iansand. Kevy will save ya! Ha ha ha ha ha some body stop me!

    • Punter says:

      06:43am | 16/10/09

      K Andrews MHR, member for Menzies (Liberal).  In 2007, Minister for Immigration. That is, this man is “Haneef Case” Andrews.

      Impossible to take his opinion on the time of day seriously, let alone anything else.

    • Punter says:

      06:48am | 16/10/09

      As for the idea that Terry McCrann is a “respected financial commentator”, I nearly spilt me Weeties - what a total hoot.

      The ETS will, over time, turn out to cost far less than the laternative and will leave us a lasting legacy of new jobs in cleaner energy alternatives and new technology.

      It’s an opportunity to make money. And help our country.

      For that, I don’t mind paying a little more, while knowing that much of the cost to ordinary Aussies will be fully compensated.

    • des says:

      06:52am | 16/10/09

      Kevin Andrews go away. Your name is mud over the Haneef affair. Why should anyone believe you on any matter of public policy. In any event like all liberals you can only measure social and public policy in dollars and cents and seem incapable of looking at an issue other than as a tax. Of course, it is breathtaking that you link the Rudd agenda to another GST. The latter was the ‘never, never’, tax option as I recall your leader John ‘man of steel’ Howard denying as a possibility right up until he was elected. Go away. Retire. Or, simply piss off. You had your day and you should have had one in court for what you and your coalition friends did to justice, freedom and ‘rights’ with Dr Haneef.  You are the member for Menzies? How ironic is that. The Haneef affair will haunt you just as the appellation ‘pig iron’ haunted Menzies.

    • Daniel says:

      07:14am | 16/10/09

      Mr Andrews it was your government that said that there would never be a GST introduced then your mate Mr Howard introduced it. You can make big savings on those products like everyday items if Rudd and the major parties from both sides repealed the GST. It would drop prices on everything nearly by at least 10%. im not so much worried about Rudd putting the GST up as I am about the Liberal Party doing it.

    • Jack says:

      07:18am | 16/10/09

      Poor Wayne IF you send me your address I could post you a box of hankerchiefs its a pity people like you just can not come to terms that little Johnny has gone.
      And as for the article by Andrews I would not even bother to read it as its been written by a nasty has been of the liberal party.

    • Joel B1 says:

      07:19am | 16/10/09

      Kev must have been a real selfish brat as a kid: “No, it’s my model (insert plane, ETS, train, education revolution as required), go get your own!”.

      Pity he never grew out of it…

    • David m says:

      07:32am | 16/10/09

      1. It’s a start to a recognition of an urgent problem.
      2. We can’t continue to pollute the world with the excuse that “well, the others are, Sir.” Someone has to make a start.
      3.Damage Trade? No worse than all other economies and no worse than a “strong” Aus. dollar.
      4. Job destroying? How will jobs be retained if the environment is ruined. Farm jobs are already being lost through environmental degradation.
      Kev, just because you and your Party are bereft of ideas, doesn’t give you the right to try and scare everyone else.

    • RT says:

      07:37am | 16/10/09

      Is there something about The Punch that makes it attractive for leftover has-been former ministers of the Howard era to write for it? I’m beginning to think my list of internet favourites needs revising.

    • watty says:

      07:47am | 16/10/09

      Just a couple of questions Michelle.

      Why the rush to “lead the world” in Copenhagen when we emit only 1.4% of world’s emissions?

      Has the cost of an ETS for “working families” risen beyond the $1.00 per family promised by Mr.Rudd and if so by how much?

      Sorry that was two plus a supplementary

    • punter says:

      08:00am | 16/10/09

      Directly emit Watty? Yep.

      Then we sell how many gigatonnes of coal and gas off shore? And where does that go?

      What’s our world share of that trade, Watty? And how much CO2 does that produce?

      Let me guess….in Watty’s little world, not his problem, eh. All profit, no responsibility.

    • Chris Grealy says:

      08:14am | 16/10/09

      A very very silly headline. Increasing the GST was never on Labor’s platform; in fact it was the Libs who brought the topic up, and they’re still harping on it. Projection, projection.

    • Me says:

      08:18am | 16/10/09

      Who is Kevin Andrews?

    • watty says:

      08:22am | 16/10/09

      Ok punter.Stop exporting coal,close down the mines,sack the miners.put all the supply businesses out on the street,.

      Now find the Government a replacement for the $25 billion export trade, jobs for all those associated with the coal industry directly and indirectly and a replacement energy source.

      Please don’t quote the Wong/Brown” thousand of Green jobs”

      In punter’s little world it’s all “white man dreaming” and screw reality..

    • watty says:

      08:33am | 16/10/09

      Hi punter,

      just read your earlier post.Doesn’t matter about cost of ETS because the taxpayers( not a Government) would susidise the amount anyway?

      Would rather be working to make a profit than be a Government handout leech.

    • punter says:

      08:35am | 16/10/09

      Coal etc…nup. Didn’t say that, Watty. Don’t put words in my mouth. Very rude. Rather silly. Quite unnecessary. That’s what Copenhagen’s for - international agreement.

      Jobs: sneer away Watty. New tech jobs come along all the time. And a great chance here to get in and make money on new energy industries. 

      Kerching!

    • Sherlock says:

      08:42am | 16/10/09

      For those that disagree with the above,  I’d be grateful if you could explain to us dumbo’s why anyone would be in favour of Australia establishing an ETS without any international agreement.

      How many thousandths of a degree will it cool the globe? How many more days will it allow the Barrier Reef to survive? Will it save Kakadu? Will we get an extra summer where we can still sunbake on Bondi Beach? How much difference to the global climate will it make if Australia goes it alone with an ETS?

      I’d assume like most sensible people that you’d agree it will make no discernible difference at all.

      Then tell me why you’d support a new tax of up to $14 billion dollars a year when it won’t make a speck of difference to the climate change problem. Why do you think Australians should pay billions of dollars each year to achieve precisely stuff all?

      Even though I remain a climate change sceptic I accept that if an international agreement to begin an international ETS is reached in Copenhagen that Australia will and should be a party to it.

      However going it alone is simply insanity gone bananas. Accordingly I’d be interested in any argument that justifies introducing billions in dollars a year in new taxes to achieve absolutely nothing

    • bob says:

      08:43am | 16/10/09

      good on ya david m., can’t wait for this country (an extremely minor player that no one will care or notice whether we act first or not) to sit here in an economic sh#tstorm (as your hero might put it) after this thing is introduced (pre copenhagen might i add) while jobs disappear and families struggle to make ends meet safe in the consolation that at least our dignity and credibility is intact, woohoo. no one cares what australia does, except home-grown hippies like you. rudd is a muppet of the lowest calibre, and he’s got you clapping and cheering along

    • shabangabang says:

      08:48am | 16/10/09

      Can the Minister for the 1950’s please realise this is the 21st century. Its time to fix up the f$&k-ups of the past and its time to stop being such a backwards country. There will be no disadvantages if you look towards opportunity.
      The 1970’s oil crisis led to more fuel-efficient cars; the ETS could be used as incentive to move towards cleaner, more efficient ways of electricity production, manufacturing, etc.

    • Kon says:

      09:06am | 16/10/09

      Mr Rudd has no idea how to run this country and never will, maybe he should save the tax payers a bundle but doing less foreign travel and more domestic policy reviews. I think if Mr Rudd can’t fix healthcare within 3 months he should just quit.

    • watty says:

      09:11am | 16/10/09

      Kerching my butt punter.

      Quote"directly emit Watty-yep”
      Quote”“where does all the coal go?
      Quote’what’s our share and how much (presumably Co2) does that produce?”

      These ARE your words not something I put in your mouth.

      New energy industries will supply some new jobs but if like Spain(50,000 NEW jobs promised 15,000 mainly in construction) eventuating.

      Just look up the Spanish Government’s 400% to 900% subsidies for up to 25 years for wind and solar and add that to our yet unestablished costs but definitely well above the Rudd promise of $1.00 for “working families"taxpayers costs

    • dude says:

      09:16am | 16/10/09

      If you could get the coalition and their supporters to just think before they spoke, the resulting cut in CO2 emissions would be a great start in meeting any target.

    • Dylan says:

      09:20am | 16/10/09

      Kevin,

      An increase in the price of milk and bread, or the inevitable destruction of this planet and with it the human race? What price do you put on the lives of your grandkids, and great grandkids etc

      We can’t sit on our hands and wait for daddy (america & the eu) to tell us what to do. If we do this now, we will be the first off the block and will lead the world into a new age of sustainability and maybe, in the long term, we may even benefit economically by getting it over and done with early… we will have to do it eventually I can guarantee that.

      The people hit hardest by the ETS will be big polluters, which I’m sure the lobbyist in your ear has already made you well aware.

      Regards,

      Dylan.

    • Maq says:

      09:26am | 16/10/09

      “Why on earth would Australia impose upon itself a job and economy-destroying ETS when developing countries such as China will continue to grow and pollute unabated?”

      It’s called global leadership - someone has to start the ball rolling, and I’m glad it’s Australia. How else do you think China and India in particular will be convinced to take any action?

      Like the rest of the developed (and in years to come, the developing) world we’re massively over-consuming resources anyway - it’s about time “market forces” worked against consumption.

      Consume less, and the ETS will make no difference to you.

    • Carl Palmer says:

      09:42am | 16/10/09

      Hmm I wonder where this came from

      “Precise annual caps will be prescribed by regulation, most probably in early 2010 AFTER the results of the Copenhagen meeting….”

    • rosey says:

      09:51am | 16/10/09

      Howard’s cronies should join him in the wilderness
      Alan Ramsey
      November 26, 2007

      As for this last election, the one that kills Howard off politically, along with the nastiest, meanest, most miserable, self-absorbed Commonwealth government to blight Australia in living memory, Rudd out-campaigned him, with discipline and immense energy, like Howard has never previously been thrashed in his 33 years in political life.

    • Jugger says:

      10:57am | 16/10/09

      Enough of this scare mongering!  The ETS is just another tax, that’s all!  Taxes benefit the whole of society, the money doesn’t just disappear into a black hole.

      John Howard introduced the GST and the sky didn’t come crashing down, this country is still the best country in the world in which to live.  And so it will be when the ETS is introduced, the sky won’t come crashing down, if anything, Australia will be an even better place to live.

    • Persephone says:

      11:01am | 16/10/09

      As an ALP member/environmentalist, I don’t mind if the Libs don’t support an ETS until after Copenhagen.

      This means Kevin will have a free hand in negotiations. He’ll be able to say to the world that he has no instructions from anyone else as to targets, and negotiate whatever he wants, rather than having his hands tied by legislation.

      And at the same time he has a double dissolution trigger, which will allow him to put those targets into law, regardless of how the Libs vote.

      Totally win win.

      Oh, and as for a CPRS raising the cost of everything, climate change has already done that anyway. The drought has meant an increase in fodder prices, which means higher costs for farmers, which are then passed on to consumers.

      Farmers are in fact the worst hit by climate change at present. No action on this issue will mean they go down the gurgler more quickly.

      If our farming sector is to survive and prosper, we need action on climate change now.

    • Mike says:

      11:30am | 16/10/09

      It’s funny how it’s the Labor Rudd supporters who are always nasty. LOL
      It seems to have gone to their heads now their Labor Government after 11 LONG YEARS IN THE WILDERNESS WITH NO POLICY AND NO CREDIBLE LEADER. Have actually made it into power. Congratulations Labor!

    • Paul says:

      11:54am | 16/10/09

      Kevin, its not about the $$.

      Some things are more important than money. Anyway, you won;t need to worry about this for I guess you’ll be part of the carbon cycle before 2050 anyway!

    • Bob says:

      11:59am | 16/10/09

      Can someone explain to me how a tax on carbon is going to reduce carbon emissions? This is how I see it happening, but therefore it is not gospel and I am open to be refuted. The taxes on business will just go down to the consumer. So the government gets more money from taxing business, consumers pay for that tax, and Carbon emissions do not drop. Don’t think that is going to help global warming. Unless the govenment spends the extra revenue on scientific research into clearing the atmosphere of emissions, and then we cross our fingers the technology is developed in time.

    • punter says:

      12:38pm | 16/10/09

      Yeah, yeah, yeah.

      Stop exporting coal, eh, Watty. But *only* Watty said that. Not me.
      Sack Miners, eh.  Nup, not my words, either.  Watty’s again.

      Fact is, under a “cap and trade” scheme, neither are necesssary, or need to happen. But “Cap and Trade” is beyond Watty , apparently.

      Dishonestly misrepresenting the words of people he disagrees with - that’s more his style. Cheating.

      And pretty much the Liberal style, really.
      Unlikely to convince anyone but themselves by cheating.
      Bit more to it than that.

    • iansand says:

      02:17pm | 16/10/09

      Bob@12:59 To me, the point of an ETS is that the quota of available emission permits drops every year by a percnt or so.  So every year the pool of emitters either reduces emissions or has to pay more for an increasingly rare resource - the right o emit.  In time market forces will mean that it is more economic to reduce emissions than to purchase the right to maintain emissions.

      I am not saying that this is what any currently proposed scheme is.  All I am saying that the reduction of quotas semms to be to me a necessary part of an ETS.  I think it likely that both major parties will do deals with vested interests to render any scheme they pass to be window dressing.  I don’t trust politicians here.

      On another note, if factoring in decommissioning costs is regarded as a relevant consideration in assessing the economic viability of nuclear power why is the clean up cost of pouring carbon compounds into the atmosphere not a relevant consideration in assessing the economic viability of burning coal?

    • thatmosis says:

      02:18pm | 16/10/09

      As Krudd stands at the helm of the ship of state his trusty henchmen are bailing for their lives as the good ship ETS springs more leaks tham a collander. This ETS is another GTS but under a different name and without the same safeguards as the GTS. With the ETS Krudd will be able at the swish of a pen increase the tax whenever he feels the need. This is another tax the Australian public does not need and we should let it be known that we are aware of this subterfuge.

    • Andrew Goff says:

      03:17pm | 16/10/09

      What a mature argument! Essentially “We’re not doing a single thing until everyone else does something.” Wouldn’t the world work well if everyone adapted that approach! That could just make Copenhagen a compelte waste of time, and the honourable member for Menzies wouldn’t want that.

      I personally think the ETS is poor policy and unlikely to resolve the issue… but articles like the above reduce conservative politics in this country to the schoolyard childishness more often associated with unionism and local councils.

      Whatever your political perspective, superficial and ideologically biased scaremongering like the above is uncalled for.

    • davo says:

      03:24pm | 16/10/09

      I have a massive problem with the ETS- yes its a tax- and kev is trying to implement a scheme which will significantly add to the cost of everything and for what? as previously pointed out here Australia emitts 1.4% global carbon (yes it is in the Garno blokes report)
      why the rush kev? are we all going to die if it is not passed in the next week or two? is the planet going to explode? what is the rush???
      I once heard our not so informed treasurer swan say that the price of diesel had minimal impact on inflation—with thinking like that its no wonder we get stupid idiotic policies from this crowd
      I think that firstly someone should see where electricity is being used and them implement reduction plans- (rather than a tax) and in a few years see where the land lies, and IF an ETS is needed then look at a good one, not this rubbish
      secondly- this is all about, and only about- kevin rudds ego and how he wants to go to that conference and say i am the best in the world because look what i did.

      finally, soon, and maybe not for ten years but one day soon this ETS will haunt Australia and go down in history as the single biggest mistake any Government has ever made in this country- always remember -
      Measure twice, cut once

    • Bruce says:

      04:20pm | 16/10/09

      A tax, is a tax, is a tax. Call it by any other name, it still has the same effect. If we are to have an ETS tax, then lets make sure it is used for nothing other than its very specific purpose and make it a criminal act to spend it on anything else. If not, increase the GST.

    • GMAN says:

      04:56pm | 16/10/09

      He has to recoup the 40 billion he dished out to every Tom, Dick and Harry in the last year somehow people!?!?!
      Might as well put the price up on everything with an ETT, that’s the quickest way I reckon.
      WHAT THA!!
      It’s funny how Mr Dudd only appears on certain stations in the media isn’t it. At least Howard had the guts to confront everyone. Nuff Said!

    • GMAN says:

      05:03pm | 16/10/09

      Maq, spare me please! Global leaders…..You’re joking right! China,India and the US don’t give a rats what we do. In fact if we introduce this Tax, they will rub there hands together, as there products will be even more cheaper than ours. Mark my words, if we go it alone on this we will cripple our industry and within 12 months everyone will be crying poor! This ETT will be the end of DUDD, just like Workchoices was with Howard.

    • GMAN says:

      05:11pm | 16/10/09

      If he is so interested in saving the environment, he would be spending billions of dollars on developing the new technology that is available now. No what did they do, they cut the rebate for solar power and threw money at insulation! Are you kidding me?! And don’t get me started on what a rort that is, its cost us millions more than it should.

    • Dylan says:

      06:38pm | 16/10/09

      To all the people saying ETS is a Tax… what’s your point? Don’t you think this planet of ours is worth paying a little extra tax for? To be honest, I couldn’t think of a BETTER way for my hard-earned tax money to be spent! And anyway, it’s a bit hypocritical for you liberals to be screaming TAX TAX TAX when it was your guy that brought in the GST (not that I’m necessarily saying that was a bad thing).

    • Louise says:

      06:53pm | 16/10/09

      Bruce and GMAN, you’re spot on.
      It’s hard to believe the absolute rubbish Climate Change Devotees will subscribe to. Some of today’s best include:
      - The ETS ... will leave us a lasting legacy of new jobs in cleaner energy alternatives and new technology.
      - the inevitable destruction of this planet and with it the human race.
      - If our farming sector is to survive….we need action on climate change now.
      A couple of my enduring favorites are
      - Droughts are caused by climate change
      - Pacific Islands will be swamped by rising oceans
      - Melting ice caps are proof of global warming
      - The fact the world has been cooling for 11 elevens is proof of climate change.
      Al Gore must die laughing (all the way to the bank) at just how gullible Australia’s are as he jets around the world in his private plane spewing forth aviation fuel and money making lies.

      Although I can’t say I’m too worried about the introduction of an ETS. World talkfests rarely result in global agreements and Kevin Rudd and Penny Wong couldn’t organise a P..s Up in a brewery.

    • iansand says:

      07:58pm | 16/10/09

      GMAN@6:03 Have you considered how much stronger Bush’s resistance to Kyoto was when he could point to just one, and only one, other country that agreed with the US’ position.  He was not completely isolated.  That one other country was Australia.

    • martinX says:

      08:10pm | 16/10/09

      How come China is considered a “developing country”. They have been a country with a rule of law for longer than anyone else. If they haven’t developed by now, they never will.

    • Shane From Melbourne says:

      09:06pm | 16/10/09

      ETS seems like complete BS anyway there are so many exemptions and free credits (or whatever) for sectors. You don’t have to spend money in australia, you can buy your carbon credits overseas. Why not simply tax australian products and services at a certain rate according to the carbon it produces and imports from other countries by the overall amount of carbon they produce? (all perfectly fair and legal with the WTO). Money raised can go straight into building nuclear power plants and an electric car industry, which would do more to reduce carbon emissions thatn anything else. Too nice and simple for the Labor party which stuffs up everything it touches. Pity the Liberals have NO policies worth mentioning.

    • thatmosis says:

      11:29am | 17/10/09

      Have people actually thought about the Electric Car industry and the massive extra taxes we will pay if we all went to these cars. No fuel excise would mean that taxes would have to recovered from some other area and the ETS without any safeguards would be the obvious way. The whole thing is a sham designed to extract as much money as possible from the taxpayer without the Government actually doing anything constructive.

    • A Farmer says:

      01:52pm | 17/10/09

      As a farmer i just whant to make some points.

      1. Famers don’t know what the ETs is going to be for agriculture.  All we know is that it we are going to be apart of it in the comming years.  We need to know now so we can start planing to move our farms towards it.
      2. Alot of Methane levels is based on Eurpean studies not Australian.  Australian animals are fed differently to Eurpean animals.  Studies have shown that we can change the level of mehane by suplimenting feed such a s Copra (ground coconut) Seeweed and other food sources. 
      3.  type in soil carbon australia and have a look at the Soil carbon information.  http://www.carbonfarmersofaustralia.com.au/
      4. In my opinion Tony Burke is the most incompetent Agriculture Miniters I have everseen.  He does not inspire conferdence in the farming community.  He is a born spinner to make him self sound good for the rest of australia but really dosen’t care about agricultural issues.  The Funnty thing is doesn;‘t even lie to us,  The does’t say i will look it to it he says you will work it out your selves.” 

      When organisations have offered ways in which farmers can help with carbon saving solutions, such as soil carbon,  he has said it is to hard to regulate or administrate.  It gives the impression that the goverments ETS is not about having a solution for solving Climate change.  To us in the bush it sounds like the government wants a thing that they can take to the reest of the population and say ” We are saving the enviroment by taxing animals farts.”  A sciencetist was recently on a radio program called the country hour.  To summrise what he said was we can’t record what farms are producing in regards to carbon.  We are going to charge you a pricebased on a number from study of methane produced by cows.  and the onlyway you can offset this is locking up land never to be used again.

      Farmers are pratical people they want a solution,  they don’t want to be a scapgoat. 

      P.s I know Tony Burke has anounced funding for Soil carbon resarch but if you keep looking you will find excuss for not doing it.

    • cat says:

      12:56pm | 18/10/09

      If Kruddy is so pro-climate why allow the Murray-Darling system to die? But that is something he can’t deal with because it’s a state thing… or are there lots of companies paying big dollars to be left to their own devices?
      By the way, a lot of farmers are suffering more from the corporates refusing to pay them fairly for what they produce than from ‘climate change’, after all for the farmer it’s better to sell at a loss than not at all, under threat of no future sales at all, so these same corporates can import ‘cheaper’ food!

    • Dallas Beaufort says:

      11:59am | 20/10/09

      Its funny how these man made global warming - e.t.s ( extra taxation saints) advocate for government to create new green jobs off the back of hard earned private business enterprise. If it is so easy to produce profitable new jobs and labor and greens know best, why do they need government to regulate higher rents and new higher taxes on something which is an idea waiting to be proven popularly profitable. Otherwise, these advocates for change could resign their “boring” government or existing jobs and put their own money on the line and compete in the market place of products, services and ideas like everyone else.

    • Andrew says:

      01:32pm | 20/10/09

      I laughed at the title. How cleverly it approximates the considered position of the coalition right on climate change, as well as that of the hypocritical propagandist who wrote the proceeding drivel:
      fallacious, facetious and myopic with a twist of asinine cynicism.

      Andy

    • KeIThY says:

      04:26pm | 20/10/09

      When is the worlds Nuclear Waste coming to brighten up our lives?!?

    • paulh says:

      03:35pm | 23/10/09

      it is only using the gst as a comparison.If the tax paying public were informed that the ets will cost the same as putting gst up to 13 or 15%.How else will the public understand.Rudd was ferocious in his attacks on howard over the gst yet expects everyone to accept his gesture wedge politics at a tremendous cost that he is unable or unwilling to inform us.all to get a pat on the back and to get rudd one step nearer to his ambition of a seat on the un.

    • Andrew says:

      11:58pm | 23/10/09

      Well firstly, it relies entirely on the supposed authority of one pundit’s opinion (who claimed 12.5%), in much the same way as a seemingly large proportion of climate skepticism is sown. Arguments from authority are always fallacious. Secondly, the public would understand more if all politicians made bipartisan efforts to address the issue. Whilst we have laypeople full of negativity calling the shots on climate policy (particularly for the coalition), there is simply no political gain in giving a full and honest account of the costs to the public asap. Thirdly, it is myopic, since paying an extra 2.5% or whatever to ensure that climate policy is in alignment with the best science is, to me, cheap insurance, besides the fact that a superior quality natural environment is necessarily better than a poorer one. Lastly, the GST is almost entirely logically disconnected from the ETS, even if it was just intended for illustration. Mr. Andrews could just as easily have said “You wouldn’t let Rudd send more troops to Afghanistan, so don’t accept his ETS”, since doing so would require a large, sustained redirection of tax dollars for which there is little public appetite, even though the equivocation of Afghanistan expenditure and the ETS would be laughable and horridly cynical.

    • Fabian says:

      11:34pm | 18/03/10

      So lets see.  Howard puts in a GST at 10% and that somehow (according to Mr Andrew’s party) doesn’t have any impact on the price of things, but Rudd putting in something that is equivalent to a quarter of that is somehow going to significantly increase the price of everything. I see. Sounds pretty much like Liberal Party mathematics to me…

    • JuneHahn says:

      04:26am | 29/11/10

      Set your own life time more simple get the mortgage loans and everything you require.

 

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