When Prime Minister Gillard defended the resumption of live exports to Indonesia, she was questioned by Greens MP Adam Bandt in Parliament about the use of stunning.

Just make it quick, OK? Pic: Getty Images

Bandt preceded his question with a claim: “In Australia, animals cannot be slaughtered unless they are stunned first because it is the humane thing to do.”

Gillard replied that [stunning] is widely used by not compulsory.

I’d be pretty sure that most Australians, like Bandt, assumed that we pre-stun animals in our slaughterhouses. Why? Because decades of meat industry spin combined with slaughterhouse secrecy means that people assume Australians do the right thing but don’t really have the foggiest what actually happens because there is no transparency in slaughterhouse operation.

In my judgment, it’s clear that large slaughterhouses in Australia use best practice pre-stunning. Here’s a YouTube clip of what looks like best practice. There is a mountain of stainless steel and a captive bolt gun that enables accurate placement of the stun and a rapid follow up if the first doesn’t do the job.

But our Prime Minister is correct that pre-stunning is not mandatory. Almost nothing in animal welfare legislation is mandatory. So it’s not clear what happens in remaining smaller slaughterhouses and with those practicing religious (Halal and Kosher) slaughter and not pre-stunning.

Why isn’t stunning compulsory? Almost nothing is compulsory in animal welfare legislation in Australia. It may come as a surprise, but our animal welfare legislation is really to protect our livestock industry, not their animals. Here’s how it works.

The RSPCA has wide powers to prosecute cruelty. But there is always an escape clause in welfare legislation which protects animal industries from prosecution if they are obeying a Code of Practice. In the SA legislation, it’s Section 43:

Nothing in this Act renders unlawful anything done in accordance with a prescribed code of practice relating to animals.

In Victoria, the relevant section is 6(1)(c). The Codes of Practice are then drawn up to protect livestock industries from whatever it is they want to do and to ensure the RSPCA can’t touch them except where cruelty is unsanctioned ... which usually means unprofitable.

Can a farmer stick an angle grinder in the mouth of a sheep? Absolutely. Farmers got it added to the Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: The Sheep to protect themselves from cruelty prosecution ... and it’s still there.

So the Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Livestock at Slaughtering Establishments suggests that stunning is to be encouraged but doesn’t make it compulsory which protects people who, for whatever reason, don’t wish to do it.

Religious slaughtering without stunning is currently in the news, but only because of Indonesian footage. We have no idea what happens in our own slaughterhouses. In the absence of transparency, my estimate of our practices is rather different from Adam Bandt’s and based on a longer history of close observation of our animal industries.

Animal protection activists have frequently obtained footage inside factory farms showing that Australian factory farmers don’t do the right thing. As long as it is profitable, Australian chicken and pig producers, for example, are content to have many animals in pain for long periods.

Factory farmed chicken meat production is a global industry which operates pretty much the same everywhere and chickens who can walk properly at the end of their six week growing period are the exception. Most have some level of walking difficulty, with more than a few being lame.

So the norm is 24x7 pain for many birds. They are bred and fed to ensure their musculature grows as rapidly as possible, which means it grows too fast for their skeletal system and the only thing the industry worries about is that not too many die before they can be killed.

All this is well known to animal activists, but footage of animal handling at slaughterhouses is much harder to get. The best practice footage, linked to above, is a clear exception and even it avoids showing the animal up close and personal at the point of the stun.

Slaughter-houses don’t generally want customers to see how their food is produced and the animal production industries are models of mendacity with campaigns of misinformation from beginning to end. Images of happy hens and chickens in farm yards are common, but you won’t see a pig meat advertisement featuring a rape rack for artificial insemination of a sow or a sow stall so small that the sow can’t even turn around for weeks on end.

The chicken and pig meat industries profit from raising animals in pain. The dairy industry rips calves from their mothers at birth and may truck them long distances to slaughter on day seven. Our northern cattle industry has been happy to ship to people who mistreat animals.

All meat industries mislead about animal treatment in their advertising. Does your supermarket have a live video feed from factory farms, feedlots, cattle trucks or slaughterhouses over the meat section?

A decade ago, when the ABC famously obtained clandestine footage of possums being killed in a slaughter house in Tasmania, they had to fight all the way to the High Court to get the right to show it.

The footage showed animals clearly alive after stunning and workers going about their business with a calmness indicating that this was perfectly normal. These Tasmanian workers were clearly as unconcerned about the cruelty as any of the Indonesian slaughtermen featured in the Four Corners documentary.

Such footage should serve as a warning to those who considered that Indonesian slaughtermen were somehow worse than Australians. There is a long history of psychology experiments demonstrating that most people will acquiesce in brutality with very little pressure. Peer group pressure is usually more than enough and religion has long fostered the abrogation of ethical thinking by edicts and commandments.

There is no shortage of scientific proof that religious (Halal or Kosher) slaughter involves more suffering than proper stunning. For cattle in particular, even the best of techniques which kill without stunning leave the animal conscious of its agony for a minute or more. With poor technique, the mind shudders to quantify the suffering. The Tasmanian footage indicates that bad stunning is no better than no stunning.

But I don’t believe it is the intention of any of these religions to be cruel. On the contrary, when the Halal and Kosher religious standards were set, they were very much ahead of their time. They were once best practice. But we can now do better. Many Muslim leaders understand this and have no objection to pre-stunning. It is a better way of achieving what was always a shared goal ... minimising the suffering of the animal.

Of course, as a method of minimising suffering, nothing beats being a vegan, but for those whose taste buds trump any considered moral position, then stunning is better than non-stunning.

It’s time Australia joined Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, New Zealand and now the Netherlands which have simply outlawed killing without pre-stunning. New Zealand has since caved to Jewish pressure on chickens but has held firm on large animals.

To rise to this level, we must close the loop holes, ensure every Australian slaughterhouse achieves best practice, and rewrite our codes of practice to protect animals instead of livestock industries.

We have to stand up to those small religious factions who are stuck on a questionable interpretation of the letter of their faiths rather than sticking to the spirit which is intended to minimise animal suffering.

114 comments

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    • JR says:

      07:01am | 14/07/11

      Just another vegan rant from Geoff,getting a bit monotonous and predictable.

    • Al says:

      08:18am | 14/07/11

      depends on your perspective ... as a try-hard vegan myself, i find his work really informative. A nice nudging about the inherent cruelty in the dairy industry which may get me off the ‘ice cream habit’ yet. Then there’s my occasional KFC lapses ... getting less and less as each of Geoff’s pieces go by.

    • AliceC says:

      08:38am | 14/07/11

      Yes, God forbid someone sticks up for the inhuamne treatment of animals in our own country. Ever been to an abattior JR?

    • trentyn says:

      09:20am | 14/07/11

      @AliceC I have frequently been to abbotoirs. and Sales Yards. and vineyards, tree fellings, done a bit of fruit picking, the list goes on.

      I like to know that if we lost all electricity tomorrow, I could provide for my family, and if that means knowing how to slaughter my own beasts, I’m up with that.

    • Brutus Balan says:

      09:25am | 14/07/11

      Pre RSPCA, pre vegan vegites, pre stunning guns, pre humane crusaders, animals were killed with spears and arrows and even clubs for food. What was inhumane then and what is humane now? Animals kill animals and it is not a good sight to watch but we understand it had to be done for the survival of its kind and so humane we must be but still to be stunned to be killed for food for the human kind cannot be deemed really as humane by bleeding hearts. So let the butchers kill and call the meat with another name like ‘steak’, ‘chops’, ‘shanks’, etc and let us eat with thanks without questioning the demise of the one sacrificed for our survival. smile

    • Shane* says:

      09:36am | 14/07/11

      I agree - Geoff’s flogging a dead horse!

      ZING!

    • Geoff Russell says:

      10:28am | 14/07/11

      No trentyn, if there was no electricity or petrol, most Australians would starve, regardless of their stomach for killing. Once the feed stopped flowing to the factory farms and the food to the supermarkets then mass starvation would result.

      ... and JR? I don’t read people who are monotonous and predictable, and I certainly don’t bother commenting on them. Haven’t you got anything better to do? Go on, splash out and buy yourself a
      subscription to Nature!

      and Brutus? Lots of things have been happening for a very long time which we now recognise as undesirable and avoid where possible ... like the Plague and rape and child abuse and wars and ...

      Keep it up Al. Your taste buds adjust to a lack of grease after a while and you will eventually wonder how on earth you ate some of the things you formerly thought wonderful. Sorbet will eventually taste better than ice cream!

    • Brutus Balan says:

      10:55am | 14/07/11

      @ GF, “Lots of things have been happening for a very long time which we now recognise as undesirable and avoid where possible ... like ...child abuse…”

      All the hue and cry about killing animals humanely but how humane is it killing unborn human beings from the safety of the womb? Isn’t that ‘child abuse’ of the fatal kind? They are not safe even there in their hiding place.  No RSPCA or the bleeding hearts crying over animals feel any compassion or rage for the unwarranted killing/murder of their own kind, their own procreation. They, like the butchers who name animal meat with other names like ‘steak’, ‘chops’, or ‘drum sticks’’ give the premeditated murdered child a name, ‘unwanted fetus’, to ease their convicting conscience. The hypocrisy and wickedness of the human kind claiming to be humane.

    • Budz says:

      04:25pm | 14/07/11

      I really hate this term bleeding hearts. It’s used as an insult, but I see nothing wrong with having compassion for other living creatures, whether they be humans or animals.
      And this whole argument of it used to be OK, so it still should be is soooo stupid. Slavery used to be OK too, because slaves weren’t considered human. Women weren’t allowed to vote, raping and beating your wife was completely fine. Is that the world you want to go back to?

    • OchreBunyip says:

      09:40am | 15/07/11

      Brutus, not all of us who are pro-choice claim to be humane; being human is to embrace the necessary death of food and enemies whether foreign or domestic. “Humane” is a sop to the conscience of those who want the killing to continue but in a manner that conceals the true nature from their delicate sensibilities.

    • thatmosis says:

      07:48am | 14/07/11

      Get off your high horse and take a good whiff of reality whist I tuck into my steak, bacon and eggs for breakfast.

    • Al says:

      08:32am | 14/07/11

      lol is he meant to be offended by your reference to meat products ... Most vegos actually chuckle away at these asides ... often well-researched, they have some idea of how long some of that stuff will stick around in your system and what it does to your insides. The cows and pigs are having the last laugh, even if u don’t realise it yet.

    • jo says:

      11:19am | 14/07/11

      Enjoy your breakfast its full of fear, abuse, and torture, You should get off your high horse, and, not ridicule people that are only sticking up for these defensless animals that have a life that is hellish

    • Al says:

      12:18pm | 14/07/11

      mmm yes Jo ... i also find myself going back to those primary school lessons of “you are what you eat” ... and wondering what effect it would have on humanity if people consumed less food soaked in that fear, abuse and torture?

    • Justin says:

      08:25am | 14/07/11

      No Halal or Kosher meat. Got it.

      Gee, we mainstream meat eaters got off easy this week.

    • trentyn says:

      08:38am | 14/07/11

      thanks geoff for this almost unbiased publication. while i take offence to the line “Of course, as a method of minimising suffering, nothing beats being a vegan, but for those whose taste buds trump any considered moral position, then stunning is better than non-stunning.” at least it shows you are capable both in one sentence and in the article to be more accomodating than I had previously assumed.

      to paraphrase another punch contribution recently: “We should treat animals more like animals.” They are not people, and so to try and stop us from eating them is akin to telling brown bears to stop eating tuna and to stuff them full of diet suppliments instead.

      never mind the completely illogical and yet seemingly destined step of suggesting that plants should be treated better, and the vegan-esque approach that one day we should all only eat that which is man made since we have evolved beyond the need to do harm to plants.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      08:43am | 14/07/11

      As a vegetarian I have always found it facinating that meat eaters are more offended by my vegatarianism than I am with their meat eating.

      I think it makes them reflect on their own behaviour and they don’t like what they see. Their complicity in the barbaric industrialisation of animal cruelty.

      And then, about now . . . the insults usually start.

    • Seanr says:

      08:57am | 14/07/11

      Actually we meat eaters are more offended by the sanctimonious nature of most vegetarians, case in point your second paragraph. Don’t lecture me about being a meat eater and we won’t have an issue.

    • Sceptic says:

      09:09am | 14/07/11

      I have zero problem with it…I am offended by your cruelty towards vegetables.  When will you stop this barbaric behaviour?

    • Lee says:

      09:33am | 14/07/11

      As a meat eater I agree with you. Of course the insults did start. I admire vegetarians and vegans and I think this article was excellent. Animals, even if they are being raised for human consumption do not deserve abuse.

      Your detractors are just showing their ignorance and their defensive comments are due simply to their inability to acknowledge what they know to be true - that suffering and cruelty are inherent in meat production. I hope they don’t breed.

    • Sceptic says:

      10:01am | 14/07/11

      @Lee

      No one threw any insults.

      I am very happy to have meat.  I am very happy for it to be killed.  I have no issue with your perception of it being ‘cruel and inherent in meat production’.

      I am pretty sure if I am going to be killed by a lion or a bear he won’t have to satisfy bleeding hearts he has complied with a pain free demise.

      “I hope they don’t breed’  so it’s acceptable for you to be insulting?

      So treat animals with kindness and humanity, just not other human beings?  See any hypocrisy in your supposed stand and beliefs?

    • Jimbo says:

      11:49am | 14/07/11

      Sceptic, there does exist a sub - group of vegans called fruitarians who only eat fruits - i.e. they don’t eat vegetables that die as a result of their consumption, such as carrots.

      On a more serious note, I would pay extra for meat raised in extra - cruel conditions. I don’t know why this market hasn’t been tapped yet.

    • jo says:

      11:52am | 14/07/11

      yes the meat eaters do get their feathers ruffled don’t they.  I guess They need to defend the (all about profit,)  disgusting cruel meat industry. in order to keep this cruel meat industry trade going. As most australian are disgusted at the treatment of these defencless animals,

    • Reggie says:

      12:04pm | 14/07/11

      Oh no… not Blind Freddie, my hero, a vegan? You leave me no alternative, I must turn.

      But wait! The advancement of the human race, like it or not, hinged around two main activities.

      One, ... eating animal PROTEIN.

      Two, ... discovering that COOKING food made the ingredients far more accessible to human digestion. (Beware you par-boiled vegans.)

      As someone pointed our, animals kill other animals and we humans are animals without question. I have spent a considerable time in and around killing floors, (Let’s call them what they are.) and all we are doing is saving the country from frantic cowboys criss-crossing the paddocks in pursuit of their own meat.

      I’d like to suggest that to—-> retreat into vegetarianism is to take the first step back into the stone age.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      12:51pm | 14/07/11

      @Reggie

      Yes, I am a vegetarian. But for me it is a purely personal matter. I grew up in a family of traditional three vege and meat eaters but for some reason from an early age could not disassociate the meat from the animal- bones, sinew etc.

      I don’t know if we need meat to live a healthy life or not. I have been a vegetarian for 35 years and am very healthy for my age. Both my children were brought up as vegetarians and both (male and female) are very athletic and have done very well academically and in work. My daughter (17) thanks me for her being a vegetarian whereas my son (25) now eats some meat. That is their choice as well.
      While originally I may have only had one reason for not eating meat since I have discovered many others- now it’s just what I do.

    • bleD says:

      08:46am | 14/07/11

      I am not a vegan but I agree with everything you say Mr Russell. Stunning is the most humane method. As for Halal or Kosher slaughtering goes, I would have it banned. Put yourselves in the animals’ place and show some humanity!

    • trentyn says:

      08:53am | 14/07/11

      read my above comment.

    • Mark says:

      09:02am | 14/07/11

      “those whose taste buds trump any considered moral position”

      So you begin from the position that I & everybody else who is not a vegan is some sort of moral black hole far beneath your lofty heights moral excellence.  As your opening position is false, all your conclusions are therefore unproven. 

      One hopes you do not approach maths in the same way. Go take a hike.

    • trentyn says:

      09:44am | 14/07/11

      this thread is now deicious sandwich recipies based on mathematical formula:

      steak + 2 slices bread + sauce (at 100:1 ratio by weight of steak to sauce) + 3 large slices tomato + salt and pepper in equal portions such that they no longer soak into the tomato + 1 layer crunchy lettuce + salad onion rings (at 20:1 ratio by volume steak to onion = delicious sandwich!

    • Sceptic says:

      10:28am | 14/07/11

      Punch you suck with your stupid black list of names…

      Tell me the how the food pornographers steak sandwich receipe shouldn’t be shared with the masses?

    • Sceptic says:

      10:29am | 14/07/11

      Give me real bread on a steak sandwich though - all this focaccia and turkish bread crap.  Give me REAL BREAD!!!

    • Jane2 says:

      09:36am | 14/07/11

      Animals are meant to still be alive after being stunned! The stunning is to temporarily numb them before the killing not to kill them outright.

      When I was working for a fast food giant I got to visit a Steggles factory and I was impressed with the process. The fact that the animal, if for what ever reason, was removed from the process after stunning, would recover. That chickens within minutes of arriving at teh factory where killed so they didnt experience the “stress” of waiting for slaughter,

      I agree chickens are a bit different from cows etc but slaughter houses keep the amount of animals waiting to be slaughtered to a bare minimum of what they can process. It doesnt make business sense to do otherwise.

      As for the stunning before killing the reason it is not mandatory is it means farmers would need to invest in stun guns to stun their chickens before killing or stun the snake bitten dog that wont live till you reach the vet or the horse that has broken its leg or the cow/sheep that has been attacked by wild dogs and is still alive when found but wont live long.

      Do we really want to make it so instead of giving an animal a quick death that we have to delay their death so they dont feel the bullet (but do feel the electric shock!)?

    • Lee says:

      10:39am | 14/07/11

      Jane2: your little visit to the Steggles factory must have been a very sanitised one. From the mouth of a factory worker, the chickens - and they are only around 6 weeks of age - are treated brutally. The workers are treated no better. The pressure is put on them to work faster and faster and they are extremely stressed. This particular man, a normally very gentle man, kicked a turkey to death through sheer frustration. There is nothing humane about the way chickens are raised or slaughtered.

      The rest of your argument was puerile. The captive bolt stun guns used on cattle assures that the animal will never rise again, the lighter version you refer to is used on sheep.

      Farmers do not need to own a stun gun to put down injured animals as they shoot them. The most humane death of all. I am astounded at the stupidity of your comments.

    • Sceptic says:

      11:15am | 14/07/11

      Oh look at Lee, hurling insult at EVERYONE…such peaceful, humane loving people these vegans.

    • v says:

      12:21pm | 14/07/11

      Sceptic, you know how it works with people like Lee, “I’m a pacifist and if you stop me protesting I will smash your face in”

    • Jane2 says:

      12:42pm | 14/07/11

      Lee, considering except for teh hanging of the chickens by their feet to putthem on teh machine no human has any contact with the animal until it has been killed sliced and diced (and in the case of the chickens for the fast food chain the first time humans come in contact is when they are being breaded just before cooking) I question your factory workers comment. [I have also had friends work in teh environment and have found it a low pressure way to earn big bucks as most of its automated)

      As for the rest of your attack you need to do some research as youobviously do not understand the stunning process at all.

    • Lee says:

      04:12pm | 14/07/11

      Jane2 I have more knowledge about livestock and their abuse on farms and in abattoirs than you will ever have because I do my research and I speak with the right people. You are ill informed and show your ignorance so I suggest you just keep quiet before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

      As for sceptic and v I do wish you could read as you will note that in my previous post I stated that i am a meat eater. Pacifist I am not. But you are dullards with low IQs so I will forgive your ignorance.

    • Hamburglar says:

      10:13am | 14/07/11

      If God didn’t want us to eat animals then he shouldn’t have made them out of meat.

    • Dan Lewis says:

      10:31am | 14/07/11

      You can’t have slaughter without laughter.

    • jo says:

      11:14am | 14/07/11

      Not impressed by your logic. you don’t know what your talking about mate. spin it anyway you like, killing an animal for food is cruel, and torturing it is disgusting.

    • Ted says:

      12:16pm | 14/07/11

      Jo, when you are prepared to wake up and look in the mirror at your teeth, you will see Omnivorous teeth there. Kind of says it all doesn’t it. Now its your turn to deny the blindingly obvious reality of your bodies evolution.

    • Michael says:

      12:19pm | 14/07/11

      Jo, it is also the most natural thing for an omnivore to do, killing an animal for food that is.

    • Hamburglar says:

      12:28pm | 14/07/11

      @ Jo - you took the bait beautifully!

      Anyone with more than half a brain would have read my comment and immediately realised that it was tongue in cheek. But you got on your soapbox and proved to the world that vegetarians are humourless, pathetic oxygen thieves.

      Go and enjoy your tofu and alfalfa salad. I’m about to enjoy a tasty, satisfying lamb curry for lunch. Mmm, yummy!

    • Shane* says:

      12:41pm | 14/07/11

      Why should I have to eat my greens? The cow’s already done that for me.

    • Seanr says:

      03:42pm | 14/07/11

      Why won’t someone think of the flies and mosquitoes..flattened to death without being stunned…why…why

    • Warwick Wakefield says:

      10:16am | 14/07/11

      Geoff, this was a superb piece. I am not a vegetarian but I am humane enough to agree that if you are going to raise an animal in order to kill and eat it then you should at least allow it to have a half-way decent life and you should see that it suffers as little as possible when it is slaughtered.

      It is interesting that people argue that animals kill other animals, without any pain abatement, therefore it is good for us to kill animals without worrying too much about pain abatement. Animals crap where they want and never wipe their bums; does this make it good for humans to do the same?

    • Sharon says:

      11:55am | 14/07/11

      This quote sums it up ......

      “The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creatures that cannot.”  ~Mark Twain, What Is Man, 1906

    • michael j says:

      10:21am | 14/07/11

      @ geoff- as one who left lengthy comments on this subject before and as someone who has worked alongside Jews doing kosher , the difference between stunning and live kill till total death is probably 10 mins ,,,,why the fuss,,?

    • jo says:

      11:37am | 14/07/11

      MICHAEL your comment 10 min (suffering for the animal) why the fuss? only shows one thing about you, you don’t have any compassion,  for these animals suffering.  You call it a fuss, thats what it is to you, because you couldnt care less,  But there are many people, in australia, that care about these animals suffering.  and we will continue to make a fuss about the ten minutes of suffering, that should be avoided.  Hey mate grow a heart.

    • michael j says:

      12:43am | 15/07/11

      @jo sorry but after 20 years of killing these animals you get to have more of and understanding of what is going and there is also a comment above that stun/haha /bolt guns are used after the cut is made by the priest which is correct,,older captive bolt guns crush the animals skull onto the brain if the educated folk want to call that a stun good ,i called it a kill for 20 years n i don’t see any reason to change ,,30 years ago we had large campaigns to stop live export , no one was interested then
      do a bit of research on goggle about this subject n get informed ,,on what is going on there is some really good stuff on there blood flow rates on animals stunned and live kill even after being an (expert) at my former trade i learned quite a lot and found it most interesting   ,,,i don’t care if every cow coky in north aus goes broke ,,they stole our jobs 30 yrs ago and jo if you can find a way to stop livestock suffering good ,,but remember it start’s at the beginning from the farm to the killing floor ,,and ten mins is a hell of a lot better than most humans get ,,,for some reason they get to suffer for maybe years with terrible cancers how about giving then a hand out,,,,

    • Sharon says:

      10:24am | 14/07/11

      Surely inflicting less pain and suffering is something we should all aspire to? Who in their right mind doesn’t want that?  We all have a CHOICE to do less harm and support the calls to reduce cruelty.

      Our animal welfare legislation should be relabelled “animal production” due to the way it is weighted so strongly in favour of the inherently cruel intensive production of animals.

      The vision from the recent Four Corners program of the black steer trembling with fear as it watched others before it tortured and killed will haunt me for the rest of my life.

      “We must fight against the spirit of unconscious cruelty with which we treat the animals.  Animals suffer as much as we do.  True humanity does not allow us to impose such sufferings on them.  It is our duty to make the whole world recognize it.  Until we extend our circle of compassion to all living things, humanity will not find peace.”  ~Albert Schweitzer, The Philosophy of Civilization

    • c.conserv. says:

      01:11pm | 14/07/11

      @Sharon,  I agree with you.  I couldn’t forget that sight -  probably never.

    • Hamburglar says:

      01:31pm | 14/07/11

      @ Sharon - how do you know that the animal was ‘trembling with fear’? Can you read minds, or do you just make assumptions without supportive facts?  Stop presenting your biased attitude as fact. Animals are meant to be eaten. FACT.

      Are you seriously suggesting that the entire world’s population be forced to become vegans overnight?

    • lv says:

      03:12pm | 14/07/11

      @Hamburglar - You do realise humans are animals right?  So I assume you won’t mind if we throw one of your tasty flanks on the barbie?

      Humans, mmmm, the other other white meat….

    • Sharon says:

      06:11pm | 14/07/11

      @Hamburglar - if you watched the complete footage you wouldn’t even ask that question, but I suspect you simply don’t care anyway. It has been scientifically proven that animals are capable of feeling fear as well as pain. Try reading a few of renowned expert Dr Temple Grandin’s papers on the topic for starters.

      Having spent most of my life around animals, including those rescued from past abuse and neglect, I have witnessed numerous examples of fear trembling.

      You have clearly been conditioned to dismiss animals as inanimate units of production to ensure you can live in blissful selfish ignorance. This is true for many who wrongly deny that animals are capable of suffering.

      “People must have renounced, it seems to me, all natural intelligence to dare to advance that animals are but animated machines…. It appears to me, besides, that [such people] can never have observed with attention the character of animals, not to have distinguished among them the different voices of need, of suffering, of joy, of pain, of love, of anger, and of all their affections.  It would be very strange that they should express so well what they could not feel.”  ~Voltaire, Traité sur la tolerance

    • Dan Lewis says:

      10:29am | 14/07/11

      You should read Temple Grandin’s assessment of Kosher slaughter (she is the famous autistic animal welfare person about whom a mini-series was made starring Claire Daines). See: http://www.grandin.com/ritual/kosher.slaughter.html

      Firstly, Kosher slaughter invokes a series of practices which must be followed precisely to minimise suffering. Secondly, as a nod to local practice, the animal is usually stunned within seconds of the cut to keep everyone happy.

      The reality is that NO slaughter is pretty and most people are blissfully ignorant. However in terms of Kosher slaughter (note, not Halal) it would seem there are other levels of ignorance too.

      I like steak.

    • Warwick says:

      01:24pm | 14/07/11

      Hey Dan,
      thanks for giving the Temple Grandin reference; this person is both intelligent and humane.

    • Shenanigans says:

      10:36am | 14/07/11

      waaaaaaaait, hold up.
      so your telling me that if you ever perchance get attacked by a croc, lion, bear or any other carnivour that inhabits this planet, you are going to demand that it stops right away because it isnt giving you the humane treatment and stunning you before it noms on your face? Good luck with that one wink
      I’m really not fussed with this whole stunning issue, i mean really, people have only started caring in the past 10 years, nobody gave a fly fcuk when the easiest way to kill a cow or any other large animal was to slit is throat hang it up over a tree branch and let it bleed out.

      and before any straight edge vegans and hardline vegitarians start getting all upset, take a look in your mouth, see them two pointy teeth there, those are called incisors, we have them so we can tear meat whilst eating it, hence why humans are classed as omnivores (shock, horror)

    • Sharon says:

      11:22am | 14/07/11

      It always gives me a laugh when the old animals are savages line is rolled out. It’s as if you believe that there is no intellectual difference in terms of ethics and ability to make choices. For us humans, it is all about choice.

      People are speaking out more because they care. Critical and ethical thinking is more prevalent than in the past, with more of us choosing to closely examine the impact our choices have,  rather than just adhere to the social and religious conditioning of the past, and turn a blind eye. We also have this thing called the internet that has enabled us easier access to share information and opinions, which used intelligently for peaceful purposes, is a positive thing. Sadly there will always be some who would prefer we all go back to being blissfully ignorant and insular.

      “The fact that man knows right from wrong proves his intellectual superiority to the other creatures; but the fact that he can do wrong proves his moral inferiority to any creatures that cannot.”  ~Mark Twain, What Is Man, 1906

    • Lee says:

      11:35am | 14/07/11

      Grow up Shenanigans. Your comments are ill informed and immature.

    • Chris L says:

      11:38am | 14/07/11

      You are promoting the idea that we shoud act like animals, since they don’t employ stunning. You are ignoring that we grew larger brains which involve self awareness and the ability to empathise.

      Our incisors are no longer necessary for survival and I expect in the few hundred thousand years our race may no longer possess them.

    • Blind Freddy says:

      01:28pm | 14/07/11

      @Shenanigans

      Humans also have rather long intestines so all of that dead meat is rotting in your gut before you defecate. Its your choice.

      I would also recommend that some posters here familiarise themselves with the is/ought fallacy.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Is–ought_problem

    • lv says:

      03:17pm | 14/07/11

      When a lion takes on a new female with cubs, he kills the cubs.  So following Shenanigans logic, it is also perfectly reasonable for a man to murder his new girlfriends children?

    • OchreBunyip says:

      09:52am | 15/07/11

      @Blind Freddy, that is how the intestine works so what is your point? All the vegetable matter you consume is “rotting” in your gut too. Maybe we should all stop eating…

    • Baal says:

      09:48pm | 15/07/11

      @Sharon and blind freddy.
      Humans are omnivores, however we are not savage omnivores. We are the only animal on earth that evolved whilst eating cooked food, hence our unique digestive system.
      Do some research.

    • lulu says:

      09:04pm | 21/08/11

      Sharon, well said.

    • centurion48 says:

      10:47am | 14/07/11

      @Geoff Russell: Good article. I stopped eating meat more than 30 years ago and a large factor in that decision was what I saw at an abbatoir that processed cattle, sheep and pigs. I also abhor factory farming and the over-harvesting of natural fish stocks.
      If people want to continue to eat meat after seriously considering the way they are raised and slaughtered then that is their decision and I accept that.
      Stunning is better than not stunning but not killing is even better. Eating meat is not necessary for a healthy human diet. Drink milk and eat cheese if you want but why kill the source of food?
      The predictable barbs and insults from immature contributors (e.g. @trentyn) is more a reflection on them than any meaningful addition to the debate but they are free to write drivel on Punch forums.

    • Sceptic says:

      11:17am | 14/07/11

      Tell us about Lee’s caring attitude…

    • Hamburglar says:

      11:33am | 14/07/11

      @Centurion - just because eating meat is ‘not necessary’ doesn’t mean that it’s wrong to do so. Eating cabbage is ‘not necessary’, neither is eating broccoli. But it’s still OK to eat them. Stop looking down your nose at people who are different to you. Try embracing the diversity in your community.

      Do you sneer at Aborigines because they eat meat (they thrived for 40,000 years on a diet of red meat)? Or Jews? Or Muslims? No. You take the easy (and safe) option of criticising meat eaters in general.

      Your attitude is a poor reflection of yourself and doesn’t add any meaningful addition to the debate. Quelle drivel!

      You can stick to your awful diet while I’ll enjoy tucking into a big, juicy steak. With a side of bacon.

    • c.conserv. says:

      01:17pm | 14/07/11

      @Hamburglar:  The Aborigines ‘thrived’ on a diet of red meat?  Of course, I wasn’t there to see them (probably don’t know as much as you know about it),  but pictures showed them looking very, very skinny.  Cook was there, though, wasn’t he -  and what did he say….........

    • melle says:

      02:29pm | 14/07/11

      ..........most miserable…...?

    • centurion48 says:

      02:36pm | 14/07/11

      @Hamburglar: Ummm! Read my post again. I did not say it is wrong. I said I accept meat eaters right to eat meat but I took the considered decision not to. My children are meat eaters as are most people I know.
      Aborigines ate a huge variety of non-meat food. In fact they ate whatever they could because they were hunter/gatherers and not farmers. Bush tucker is/was easier to acquire than animals because it does not run, swim or fly away. I don’t understand your reference to Jews and Muslims. Perhaps you can cite some references to support whatever point you are trying to make.
      Eat your steak and bacon too - just not in my house.

    • jo says:

      11:03am | 14/07/11

      Good on you Geoff for giving a voice to these defencless animals that have to suffer, in order for meat eaters to eat their flesh.
      Iv been a vegetarian now for ages, and am happy that my money does not go towards this cruel meat industry.  Many Australians, mainly the younger generation, are coming to the conlusion that, eating meat is no good for your body, bad for the environment, so much water is used for cleaning the blood. of these animals.

    • Cat says:

      11:22am | 14/07/11

      oh this is timely for me - I have no objection to the article but I have this little bugbear with the RSPCA because by goodness they are KING at misinformation spread in order to support their campaigns. I am an RSPCA supporter, I have been a vollunteer and a fundraiser and a donator and a foster carer for animals BUT I am growing absolutely weary of the subtle misinformation used to drum up support, so many things are implied as being cruel (not stated outright, just worded in a way to leave that impression and stir peoples emotions up so they sign a petition they might not do if they were given a complete and objective picture) and it has implications because people are left with clear impressions which are false and they give their support to RSPCA desired outcomes which can ignore significant detrimental implications for some stakeholders even though those stakeholders are people not guilty of any cruelty at all. AND if you want to talk about an organisation which is a law unto itself - there is no better example than the RSPCA - it holds tremendous power and yet has no independant complaints process - NO OTHER agency with police and prosecutorial powers fails to have an external appeals process which would guarantee transparent accountability. Every time I comment on news.com with information which dispells the half truths (information easily verafiable) it fails to get published because nobody wants to hear anything even mildly critical of the RSPCA, even when it comes from those deeply commited to furthering animals welfare.  Until things change it is the height of hypocrisy to criticise one entity for failing to be accountable and yet support the RSPCA’s lack of transperant accountability.

    • Lee says:

      11:59am | 14/07/11

      Yes Cat. The RSPCA is a sacred cow. It breaks my heart to know of the old people who leave them a legacy. If only they knew. The poor animals only have the RSPCA and the welfare of animals, particularly farm animals is not high on their agenda.

    • Geoff Russell says:

      12:16pm | 14/07/11

      Cat: RSPCA is different from state to state and time to time. RSPCA members in South Australia have voted in an almost entirely new council during recent years and helped to transform the organisation.  You may consider similar actions if you are unhappy with your local RSPCA.  Depending on your state legislation, you may have an ombudsman who can investigate complaints. Unfortunately the RSPCA sits in a strange legal limbo land, it enforces Acts of Parliament, but doesn’t have the usual level of Government funding to do this and, as I’ve explained, the more powerful arms of Government, like Ag departments, can actively impede RSPCA’s ability to function. 

      Also note the cooperation of RSPCA with Animals Australia on the Indonesian Live Export issue. This is (as far as I recall) unprecedented and a hopeful sign.

    • Cat says:

      02:28pm | 14/07/11

      I am aware there are state differences,  i am aware that some states run with views counter to the national policy on some issues - this in and of itself is a concern given the public perception and campaigning power of the RSPCA name.  An ombudsman who hardly anyone knows about even if they DO have one, wont step in, or whose only action is to hand over concerns to the organisation itself to investigate (and not any independant third party) is completely useless and in no way a measure of transperancy or accountability. The strange limbo needs to go,  a new state council is something that would address these issues - the recognition that transperancy and accountability are necessary is, even if achieving that entails a split between policing/procecuting sections and the charity sections. People don’t advocate for it because they see it as removing power from the RSPCA and clinging to power seems to be more important than mucky conflicts of interest, transperancy, accountability and promoting animal welfare as an issue serious enough to warrant coming under the full heading of a government department with the funding and procedures that go along with it. What better sollution to the issues you raise than to have a damn good look at not only WHAT we police, but HOW we police it? ..but no, we seem to want to cling to power even though it means begging the public for funds in order to prosecute cruelty cases.

    • Cat says:

      09:06pm | 14/07/11

      that was meant to read “a new state council is NOT something that would address these issues…” - I should proof read : /

    • Just Sayin' says:

      01:42pm | 14/07/11

      “Of course, as a method of minimising suffering nothing beats being a vegan”

      What?  Veganism sounds like a great way to maximise my suffering.

    • Burko says:

      01:54pm | 14/07/11

      I think articles by Geoff would be far easier to digest if he would leave out the moral superiority that seems to come with every single piece he writes, as the below clearly shows in this case
      “Of course, as a method of minimising suffering, nothing beats being a vegan, but for those whose taste buds trump any considered moral position, then stunning is better than non-stunning.”
      Why would you think that you are morally superior to me. Just because I choose to eat meat? It’s quotes, like the above that just turn people off, as you did me.
        I tried vegitarianism, for about 12 months, not out of any consideration for animal welfare, but just to see how the “other half” lived and, no sir, I didnt like it. My wife, who also went along for the ride, suffered some health issues from our diet.
      Dont get me wrong, I’m not into the suffering of animals for the sake of it, just like most meat eaters, but like most meat eaters Im not into sanctimonius and condesending tales about my lack of morality just because I choose to eat a certain food item.
        I know animal welfare can be a contentious issue, especially when it relates to “vegies v’s meaties” so how about from now on we’ll leave you alone if you leave us alone…...yeah right.

    • c.conserv. says:

      02:02pm | 14/07/11

      @Burko, I agree with what you say.  Moral superiority is everywhere!  And not just in this matter.

      The vast majority of people don’t want to see animals suffering.

    • Sceptic says:

      02:13pm | 14/07/11

      How else do you think he can live with the fact that he eats crappy, boring food, unless he justifies it to himself that this makes him ‘morally’ superior.  It’s not about the food, it’s about him wanting to be different at a deeply psychological level.  He then has to justify it to himself so that he doesn’t have conflict within himself.

    • Reggie says:

      03:10pm | 14/07/11

      c.conserv. says:
         
            “The vast majority of people don’t want to see animals suffering”

      As another animal I cannot agree more but I feel you are being a little superior about this yourself c. conserv.

      Let me put it this way, most would rather not SEE the suffering, but if it means that some African subclass starves in preference to themselves, then their conscious attitude is, “quietly close your eyes and ... let em suffer.”

      Can you tell me what food will provide for a world population that has grown from TWO billion in the 1920s to SEVEN billion today. What-ever it is, all must agree to consume it or shoulder the responsibility of blindly leaving great swathes of people to suffer and die unseen.

      This is directly related to WHAT we eat and WHICH food provides the LARGEST crop while simultaneously the areas of arable land diminish rapidly as that population increases and suffers the PANGS of hunger.

      Is there a delicious sea-weed we should all encourage as a solution to the worlds woes?  Seriously.

    • Burko says:

      04:47pm | 14/07/11

      Hey Reggie, If youre going to make a point about someone supposedly being superior then you probably shouldn’t be using words like “African subclass”
      As to the rest of your comment, I fail to see what any of it has to do with the topic at hand. Your comments fail to address either Geoffs stance on stunning or the arrogance in which he thinks he’s morally superior to us meat eaters
      c.conserv is absolutely correct in saying that “The vast majority of people don’t want to see animals suffering.” If you can somehow turn that statement into how to feed the worlds starving masses then more power to you

    • Reggie says:

      06:32pm | 14/07/11

      Oh Burko it seems you never actually got over your vegan experiment but it certainly takes someone “special” to try it.

      “I fail to see what any of it has to do with the topic at hand.

      As you’re having difficulty connecting the dots, (a very common failing around here,)  I need to spell out to you that an African subclass is as perceived by condescending Westerners.  Your restricted imagination has kept you from seeing those people as suffering under the ordinary problems of life while you have the luxury of playing at vegan. They don’t have the option of a stun gun to relieve their suffering, but since you fail to mention anything to the contrary, I am led to the conclusion that both you and CC close your eyes to their suffering.  Preferring instead to play at veganism, or in CC’s case, worrying about the bunnies. Triviality personified.

      You do remember that SUFFERING is at the core of this correspondence eh?

      Any disagreement suggests a juxtaposition of arguments and you certainly project yours as superior. I apologise for trying to extend your horizons, something which is clearly beyond your capacity.

    • c.conserv. says:

      06:49pm | 14/07/11

      @Reggie:  Firstly, “delicious seaweed”? -  ask the Japanese.  Not what I fancy.
      Secondly, not feeling any superiority.  No problem with people eating meat.  However, we eat more than we need.  My dad says his family (around the 1960s) rarely had steak, and had a roast chicken once a year at Christmas -  and they weren’t starving.  Consider the fast food outlets and the chickens they “need” today.  Eating more than is needed.
      Nothing superior going on, Reggie.
      I’m put off by TV food shows, with people slavering over cuts of meat - and doubly so, if halal practices, or any other mediaeval practices, have been responsible for the tender slice of animal flesh.
      The hungry in Africa -  Well, wouldn’t that be something to be taken up with those who govern African nations?

    • Reggie says:

      09:10pm | 14/07/11

      No seriously c. conserv. If the whole world were to go veterinarian we would have to find sufficient vegan food to feed many times more than the current SEVEN billion by 2050 when the population is projected to gradually decrease as the death rate surpasses the birth rate.

      If we (you) don’t succeed, then the pain were are talking about would be transferred to the humans as they move into cannibalism. Perhaps you are hoping for a second green revolution ummm,... if I can use that word without causing the majority of righteous PUNCH readers to swoon dead away,-  we’ve had that, - a tripling of grain production in India where the population explosion is expected to be greatest. Now we have China and even Britain buying up land in starving third-world countries to grow food to export to their own domestic consumers. You want to see some PAIN, just wait around for the revolts.

      Cities are being built on arable land and will continue to be, so all that is left is to turn to the ocean for food. I imagine most vegetarians spurn the thought of eating fish or fish eggs so that pretty much leaves sea-weed. No alternative I’m afraid, except possibly algae. To that the rampant mobs of unharvested reindeer might object. Best eat them and be done. smile

    • c.conserv. says:

      10:38pm | 14/07/11

      @Reggie.

      You are a monster….............this will please you,  yes?

      Don’t pretend to care about any sub-class in Africa.

      Bunnies?  I hadn’t thought of them.  How callous of me.  This should please you, also.  If the “whole world goes veterinarian”, as you so cutely suggest, (are you drinking?) then we’re gonna need a whole lotta animals, aren’t we?   
      Imagine the competition for ‘clients’.  Oh happy beasts!

      Reggie,  Get juxtapositioned.
                                        A badger tone to all this

    • Reggie says:

      11:08am | 15/07/11

      Oh woe is me, I’ve been monstered by c.conserv.

      Never mind CC, you’ll be back at school in no time now, enjoy the rarefied atmosphere before you have to face the reality of the cruel world. I’ve enjoyed your discomfiture, which I guess confirms your assessment, but let NOT your anger shift you towards the threshold of cruelty. ROFL.

    • Burko says:

      11:32am | 15/07/11

      Reggie, dear oh dear, so since you used the statement ” African subclass” we can safely assume that it is you who are one of the “condescending Westerners” of which you speak as I dont ever remember saying that. Your assumpition of facts not in evidence is staggering. Show me where I said vegan…..you cant ,as I never said that either. ” vegetarianism” is what I said and just because it didnt work for me doesnt mean it wont work for someone else. I dont need a superior ding bat like you to broaden my horizions, I’m quite capable of that by myself, hence the vegitarian experiment. Your concern about me getting over my vegan( incorrect ) experiment is quite touching, but rest assured, the freezer full of meat I’ve hunted, killed, butchered and dressed can attest that I’m “cured”. Just another way of broadning my horizions without your help. Another way was for my wife and to sponsor two childern who live in Sierra Leone…you know….help someone a little less fortunate. I know we arent saving the world but at least its something, so that sort of puts pay to most of the dribble about my restricted imagination and the suffering of others My point still stands, If anyone Including you, Veggie, can tell me why Geoff thinks he’s morally superior to me and my fellow meat eaters I would love to know

    • Shenanigans says:

      02:00pm | 14/07/11

      all those people saying meat is bad for your body, you’re kidding right?
      meat is a base form of protein, iron and all sorts of other nutrients that you need to fully develop and survive, sure there are supplements for all of those, but good luck living on supplements for the rest of your life, because there are somethings supplements can’t do that a nice juciy steak can.

      and if you say meat rots and or decays in your body, you do realise if that was actually happening you would be a very, very sick individual and probably close to death. rot is the breakdown of organic matter by bacteria, often organic material consuming bacteria, if that stuff is in your body you have no idea how screwed you are. what is happening is your body and all the enzyemes that make up the disgetive tract are dissovling all the nutrients and minerals inside that piece of meat, and distributing it to your body, thats how it works. food doesnt rot in a living organism, it is dissovled and essentially broken up into its base organic compunds and elements by the body!!!

      simple biology people! or didn’t they teach that to you all back in the day?

    • James Hunter says:

      05:11pm | 14/07/11

      Yep the idiots in this world ignore the facts of biology. Our teeth our stomach are all those of an omnivoir, just like a pig. we were not ment to eat seeds and weeds alone.
      Factoid #2 is that we cannot synthasise some amino acids from food we have to eat them and the only source of some is animal protein So if you want to deprive your body of esential amino acids then avoid meat and milk and eggs and fish.
      Another interesting thing to consider is that farmers growing pigs and chooks intensively always seek the best nutrition to get most rapid groth with the leanest meat. Only way to get the esential amino acid balance is to have meat/and or fish meal in the food. Costs more but all you happy maccs fans anf KFC purists would starve without.
      Check out the Sports nutrition guides. Full of Whey Protein Isolate. Pure animal amino acids. Expensive but people who realy truly want to look after their bodies thrive on it.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      02:04pm | 14/07/11

      I does seem a bit back to front to treat animals humanely when we can’t even treat other humans humanely yet.  Sure, there’s very little opportunity cost between the two, but for now, I’m much more worried about the brutal treament of people, than the brutal treatment of animals.

    • melle says:

      02:33pm | 14/07/11

      I’m not.
      I’m concerned about the brutal treatment of mute animals

    • Reggie says:

      03:13pm | 14/07/11

      “I am NOT an animal.”  Oops, yes I am.

    • Just Sayin' says:

      04:13pm | 14/07/11

      FIND: “animals”
      REPLACE: “other animals”

      Happy, smartypants?

    • bog cog says:

      02:32pm | 14/07/11

      To kill a sheep without stunning, you push your knife in behind the artery and cut outwards then bend the head back to break the neck and sever the spinal cord, all done in a few seconds.  Make sure you use a sharp knife and it is over before the sheep has any idea of what is going on. Tomorrow chops. yum.

      Though, as a sheep farmer I haven’t eaten too many of my own sheep recently as they are worth too much. I would rather send them on a Middle-Eastern cruise and buy beef.

      Geoff, I respect your right to your opinion to be a vegan, but why do vegans (and animal libbers) insist on presenting their opinions as facts ie: only stunning is humane, live export is cruel.

      Mate, you lead your life and let me and my contented sheep lead mine.

    • Reggie says:

      03:24pm | 14/07/11

      bog cog, “Though, as a sheep farmer I haven’t eaten too many of my own sheep recently as they are worth too much.”

      You proper bastard you’ve been into our sheep again haven’t you. I told the missus it was YOU.

      Pigs just get stuck too eh. Calves? Drop 10 in 5 seconds with a nice 2” piece of GI pipe.  Good tucker.

    • James Hunter says:

      04:52pm | 14/07/11

      Bob Im on your team. I say “Stick it to the vegans” oops bad choice of words !!!

    • bog cog says:

      01:04pm | 15/07/11

      Reggie, I’d invite you over to tea to have some of your prime lamb, but last time you came you brought some crap XXXX and then drank my Coronas, plus your missus always tries to crack onto me.

    • ibast says:

      03:49pm | 14/07/11

      I’m a bit lost here.  So it’s better to bash an animal in the head and take your time about the killing than just get the killing over and done with in the first place?

    • Reggie says:

      09:55pm | 14/07/11

      No mate, they’re better bled to death. Collect the blood, render it down and mix with bone in a high speed pulverizing chain mill to make fertilizer. Not a thing is wasted, not even the stomach lining.—  blattttt<<<

      Then there’s the morgue….. better not.

    • James Hunter says:

      03:53pm | 14/07/11

      Most every farmer I know kills sheep for home use with out stunning . City do gooders should get in touch with reality. Man is an omniverous predator. We have killed for meat since we were on this planet.
      Why do not the do gooders go out and arrange for birds to be stunned befor feral cats rip them top bits ?
      Why do they not ban lions tigers and Tasmanian Devils because they all kill live things with out stunning ?
      World is full of do gooders who should stick to eating vegies so their bodies will suffer amino acid depravitation and they will die die out as a sub species.

    • James Hunter says:

      04:16pm | 14/07/11

      Oh, I forgot the foxes that shred lambs with out stunning and the Crows that pick the eyes out of lambs and mother sheep while the mother is giving birth. Not pretty nut hey that is nature.

    • Outraged says:

      04:19pm | 14/07/11

      I hate to break it to you Geoff, but every time a Vegan eats fruits or vegetables…you kill a living thing.

      Fruits are alive. Plants are alive. They are living things.

      Just because they don’t have a mouth and can’t scream doesn’t make them any less “living”.

      How do you sleep at night?

    • Shane* says:

      05:01pm | 14/07/11

      A couple of points:

      It is perfectly NATURAL for humans to eat meat, as various physiological signs show.
      It is perfectly NATURAL for humans to prioritise their own interests over the interests of another species.

      These are simple facts supported by evolutionary theory. We are SUPPOSED to be selfish when it comes to “speciesism.”

      Many vegetarian-vegan-animal-liberationists would have use believe that we are acting inhumanely in eating meat. I would argue the precise opposite. It is a wholly natural and a wholly human experience.

      Denying yourself meat and arguing for the welfare of animals in protests (when there are billions of humans living in poverty) therefore strikes me as decidedly UNNATURAL.

      That is why I will donate to Doctors without Borders this year (again) instead of the RSPCA or WWF or any charity that prioritises animals. That money could be better spent saving human lives.

    • James Hunter says:

      05:54pm | 14/07/11

      Shane,
      I pretty much agree with everything you say BUT I do believe we should make food subsidies to impovrished nations contingent on them having an effective and monitored birth control plan.
      Otherwise there will be a bigger and bigger pool of mouths to feed and fewer and fewer of us to pay for it. The M.S.F. guys will be streched beyond effective use too no doubt.

    • Sharon says:

      09:55am | 15/07/11

      Caring about suffering, cruelty and oppression of humans and non-human animals is not mutually exclusive. That is why I donate to charities on both fronts, and support campaigns for human and animal rights. There is no reason why we cannot do both.

      Significant amounts of the crops grown around the world are fed to livestock to then be fed to humans.

      Meat is the most inefficient use of our precious resources. ABARE reports that in 2007 a whopping 66% of the grain produced in Australia alone was fed to livestock! Australia slaughters OVER 500 MILLION animals each year.  Just imagine how much of that land, water and energy could be used to grow crops to feed the starving millions. It is all about the choices we in the wealthy powerfull western world make.

      The majority of the clearing in the Amazon has been for livestock and their feed. Meat (red in particular) and dairy industries are the most water intensive (incl. Murray Darling Basin) and polluting of all our food commodities. Try reading the UNFAO report ‘Livestock’s Long Shadow’ for starters, and checkout the many eco-footprint websites.

      Vegetarian diets are perfectly natural, healthy and far more humane and environmentally sustainable than meat-based.

    • Geoff Russell says:

      06:46pm | 14/07/11

      The piece was about how animals are killed in Australia. There is a segment of the slaughter industry which is under little or no control. But, predictably, the “it must be good/right/healthy/natural because its been happening for a long time” people jump to defend their unnecessary actions and I’m accused of being self righteous because I think some actions are better than others ...  and say so. Ho hum.

      Here’s a nice quote from Professor of Nutrition at New York University, Marion Nestle (who isn’t a vegan or even a vegetarian) in her book “What to Eat”

      “The meat industry’s big public relations problem is that
      vegetarians are demonstrably healthier than meat eaters.”

      She sees no moral issues in eating animals, but as a scientist, and she’s one of the best, she has to call it as the evidence shows on the health issues.

      Can any of the people claiming to care more about people than animals explain why that has anything to do with food choices or methods of killing? If you really care about people then why support a system which feeds millions of tonnes of grain to livestock when there’s a
      billion hungry people on the planet?

    • Cat says:

      09:26pm | 14/07/11

      “The meat industry’s big public relations problem is that
      vegetarians are demonstrably healthier than meat eaters.” demonstrably how? Is that with or without vitamin suppliments? Is that with or without reasonable scientific controls on tests? What methadology was used? Is that with or without controling for other major factors that influence health? Is that compairing an optimum vegetarian diet with an optimum non-veg diet and if so what about those people who don’t eat an optimum vegetarian diet and fail to balance their diet properly? ...you begin to see how such a statement in and of itself may not carry the same weight for others as it does for you.

    • michael j says:

      01:16am | 15/07/11

      @geoff i can see where you are going with this now ,,you want every bovine on the planet killed to stop them releasing green-house FARTS that will cut carbon emissions by exactly 1/4 of the nasty gas,, protein can then be got from recycling the bodies of humans into chicken sticks ,,might take a few generations to catch on ,but it will,,,

    • john taylor says:

      08:37pm | 15/07/11

      And not ONE post by Erick.

      DISAPPOINTED!

    • Geoff Russell says:

      08:52pm | 17/07/11

      I’ve just realised that there is a paragraph missing from this post. I’m assuming it got lost in the posting/editing process. It should have come just before the
      paragraph: “Religion slaughter without stunning ... “

      —Missing paragraph:

      Sometimes even more tricky means are used to allow animal industries to
      operate without effective control. In South Australia, the Animal Welfare
      Act and associated Codes of Practice, which are policed by the RSPCA,
      don’t mandate stunning. But there is another piece of legislation, the
      Australian standard for the hypienic production and transportation
      of meat and meat products for human consumption
      administed by the
      Department of Primary Industries which does require stunning (either pre
      or post the slashing of the main blood vessels) unless an exemption is
      given. Can the RSPCA inspect slaughterhouses with exemptions? No. Why
      not? Because the Primary Industries department will not tell RSPCA where
      they are.

    • Angelica says:

      12:31pm | 14/04/12

      Enjoy your tortured meat!!!!

 

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