Would it kill ya to say hello?

G says:

09:27am | 06/10/10

Eric,

That is an interesting comment.

When I walk in to my apartment complex at night after work through the basement entrance. 

Sometimes there are other people walking in, if that person is a woman ahead entering as well, I won’t walk past them or too close too them; or I might jingle my keys to alert them to my presence. 

Why do I feel like I have to do that?

marley says:

10:05am | 06/10/10

I think you guys must be big city types.  This article is about small town Australia (and I happen to live in a small town).  And the author is right - it is unusual to pass someone without saying good day. The only people, joggers or otherwise, male or female, who don’t acknowledge my existence when they encounter me on my morning dog walk are lycra-clad city types focused on their heart rate monitors or Ipods.  The locals, and the city folk out to enjoy nature, not maintain their perfect body shapes, all say hello.

Markus says:

10:26am | 06/10/10

Yeah come now Catherine, how hard is it to see from his perspective?

It’s dark, and foggy.
He is 6 foot 3 and muscle-bound, and you are a female out walking on your own in a society where even a smile can potentially be miscontrued as harassment.

Leaving you be, rather than potentially leaving you with a lingering question of “why did this big muscly guy just smile at me? Is he going to do something?” seems to be quite a courteous thing for him to do.

Grow up. This

Rossco says:

11:58am | 06/10/10

I have to say Eric you make a valid point.

When I am with a woman all alone, say perhaps walking back from a nightclub to go home, and we are only within 5 metres or so of each other, I am cautious as to how she feels about my presence.

I dont want someone to feel uncomfortable about my presence, but I dont however feel I should be thinking this way in the first place.

Thanks media for continually bastardising men and perpetrating the image of evil men in society.

Jason says:

12:42pm | 06/10/10

Eric’s comment is actually quite accurate. I am a regular walker and hiker. Whenever I see a woman approaching me on the footpath, or I am catching up to a woman in front of me, I always cross to the other side of the road so she doesn’t feel scared (I’m 6’ 3” with a shaved head, and not the prettiest of pictures). While hiking, I will take an enforced break if I see a woman on the same track in front of me, so that she doesn’t panic, thinking I am following her. It’s a courtesy thing I guess, but also a safeguard for your own sake.

Bob says:

02:28pm | 06/10/10

I’ve been conditioned by society the same way. If I encounter a strange female alone I will give her a wide berth. If I’m approaching her and she hasn’t noticed me I will deliberately scuff my feet or the like to make her aware of my presence.

I do this because I’ve been brought to believe that women see men as potential rapists and so I should not do or say anything that could be misconstrued as harrassment. I’m worried that women will find my mere presence alarming. As far as I’m aware this feeling is quite common amongst young men today. Its the same reason I feel uncomfortable touching children.

Nothing bad happened to me in my upbringing. Just the media and militant feminism.

Girl says:

03:58pm | 06/10/10

As a young female, I just want to say thanks to you men who think of thier actions and are cautious of women’s needs and safety. Thanks for reminding me that most men are good.

Eric says:

04:02pm | 06/10/10

Same here Bob.

The funny thing about militant feminism is that men who actually care about the safety and well-being of women are the only ones affected - and they distance themselves.

The boors, muggers and rapists, however, don’t care what anyone thinks. And so they are the ones left.

pheelion says:

09:47pm | 06/10/10

Eric,

“The funny thing about militant feminism is that men who actually care about the safety and well-being of women are the only ones affected - and they distance themselves.”

I see this as the result of 4 odd decades of the militant feminist movement driving decent men away.  As I saw a stand up comedian say recently “Chivalry is dead and women killed it”.

Liz says:

07:57am | 07/10/10

Eric the best way a man lets a woman know he’s not a threat is to make eye contact and say hello in a friendly but not over-friendly way.
False rape claims generally happen when the people know each other.
Joggers seem to be very self-obsessesed or maybe they’re just concentrating.Once we loose common courtesy, the one us Aussies have always had, we’re done for.

Mirror says:

07:01am | 06/10/10

Exactly Ziggy,

Catherine didn’t say hello, but the male jogger IS the rude person.

Joe says:

07:05am | 06/10/10

...or just trying to breath…

havin a crack says:

02:19pm | 06/10/10

What jjj mostly said.

I suppose it doesn’t deter from the fact that if none or anything reasonable doesn’t apply from the above, then common courtesy really isn’t a long bow to draw.

Manners cost you nothing, after all….

nick says:

04:34pm | 06/10/10

“Manners cost you nothing, after all….”

Untrue, being polite and/or helpful have made me experience each of the following (and other bad stuff):

- A woman screaming at me saying I am sexist and condescending for holding the door open for her (she was carrying a baby and had another baby in a pram)
- A woman claiming that I was trying to sexually assault her (she fell down, I caught her). Luckily there were many witnesses who supported my version and none who supported hers.
- A man trying to mug me (it was one of those fake car breakdowns, but I was a lot more gullible back then)
- A man stole my bicycle
- When trying to help a lost child find her parents, I was almost mistaken for a pedophile by said parents

I also once saw a guy who was screaming at a crying woman (presumably his girlfriend) and threatening to hit her. Then this other guy who was passing by tried to help the woman by asking the angry guy to calm down, the woman then screamed at him telling him to go away and mind his own business.

Of course there are also many times when I received smiles and thanks for helping people. But it’s getting rarer these days, more and more people either ignore you or react negatively. So now I make it a point to ignore everyone unless it’s somebody I personally know or they said hi first. I will still help a random person if asked, I just don’t offer help anymore.

marley says:

10:07am | 06/10/10

Oh well, I never thought of saying “good morning” to a chance encounter on a morning walk as “trying to get pally.”  I thought of it as common courtesy.  My mistake.

HappyCynic says:

12:24pm | 06/10/10

@marley

Try talking to me before my first cup of coffee and you’ll be lucky if you get a monosyllabic grunt and a shrug of the shoulder.  I’m not a morning person (unless I’ve woken up next to a very beautiful woman and then I’m very much a morning person lol) and as a consequence I’d like to be left alone with my thoughts as I struggle to wake my sleep-addled brain up.  I have no time for pointless little niceties and polite conversations until at least 10am.  After that, I’m as polite as you like though I don’t really ‘get’ the whole ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ stuff.

JJJ says:

10:30am | 06/10/10

HA! It’s like when you bump into a friend at the shops. Hello and chat the first time, “ha, ha, this is funny” the second time… “Oh my god, one of us has to leave”, the third time. Awkward.

Bob H says:

12:21pm | 06/10/10

@MarK - nice one, comment of the day

martinX says:

09:08pm | 06/10/10

Didn’t help, though. He’s been slandered.

Juju says:

09:52am | 06/10/10

I agree Old Salt, it’s a Sydney thing. We moved to Sydney from country NSW about 15 years ago, and the first thing I noticed was that people would not look you in the eye or even acknowledge your existence if you passed them on the footpath. It’s like they think they are the only person on the planet. Weird.

Spud says:

09:58am | 06/10/10

It’s not a southern thing, Old Salt. People in Hobart say hi to each other all the time.

T.Chong says:

10:06am | 06/10/10

Old Salt - next you’ll be singing about a ” XXXX coming on ”

The Old Salt says:

10:13am | 06/10/10

Sorry Spud. Like many (most?) Australians I tend to forget about Tasmania when discussing an “Australian” topic. Yes, Tasmanians on the whole are more like the people I described, real old-fashioned, give-you-the-shirt-off-their-back Aussies. Nevere see that in Sydney or Melbourne or, I am ashamed to say, Brisbane, any more.

Lynne says:

10:25am | 06/10/10

So not a Sydney thing. I run regularly around the inner city of Sydney where I live and I always get a smile, a nod or even a “hey” if I know the person. I have lived in the suburbs, but I honestly think the high-density inner suburbs are much friendlier. When you meet your neighbours all the time on King Street, or in the cafes, you get the chance to really get to know people. We have a great community and welcome everyone. Perhaps it’s your attitude to “outsiders”, a term I would never use.

The Old Salt says:

10:34am | 06/10/10

T.Chong, you sneaky person, you! Were you listening outside my office?

The Old Salt says:

10:58am | 06/10/10

T.Chong - In my last reply to you I should have asked why you didn’t come in and say “hello”. I’m a friendly sort of chap - don’t bite and all that. I even say hello to some of the dogs I meet (on leases, of course) when walking along our beachfront. And our joggers can always raise a smile. But aside from all the banter, the “Bribie Island Factor” is why I moved from Brisbane when I retired. And it was a similar sentiment that saw me move from Sydney to Queensland (the Sunshine Coast) in the mid-‘70s. The first weekend I was here I saw my neighbour and his wife sitting on the grass, him with stubbie in hand, she with glass of wine, late on Sunday afternoon chatting the their neighbour on the other side who had a subbie in hand and one foot up on the fence. My immediate reaction was, “I have made the right move”. And not for one minute have I regretted it. Neighbourly friendliness is worth more than all the gold in the mint.

Frederick VT says:

12:31pm | 06/10/10

Bribie Island friendly? maybe for Old Salt united in their hatred of ‘others’.  I live very nearby and love the island but am always horrified by its unfriendliness. Once I went to get breakfast with visiting overseas guests at the only decent looking eatery on the passage and was told the chefs only doing lunch now, I pointed out that it was 9:45am and the notice board says quite clearly breakfast till 10:30am, I was told to p*ss off.  Lovely place Bribie but the locals ew.  Its known as scum on sea for a reason.

The Old Salt says:

01:19pm | 06/10/10

Frederick VT, one bad egg does not an omelette make! And where did the “hatred” remark come from? I don’t think I wrote that I hated anyone. Unless you read that into what I said about weekend and holiday visitors to the island keeping to themselves. If so, you are drawing a very long bow . . . or you have a huge chip on your shoulder. It’s for you to decide which. And scum on the sea? Haven’t heard that one before, especially in such an all-encompassing context. Come to think of it,  you sound like the sort of person I wouldn’t bother to smile or nod at. Certainly sounds as though I wouldn’t get anything pleasant in return.
Have a nice day anyway.

The Old Salt says:

01:33pm | 06/10/10

Frederick VT, I withdraw the comment I made in my last reply about what type of person I said you are. Find myself falling into the same trap as other bloggers I don’t admire or take any notice of - those who personally attack another writer’s personality when they don’t know the person behind the blog. Providing your experience didn’t happen several years ago, if you would like to send me the details (date, time, place etc) I will approach the owner of the establishment and point out the damage at least one of his/her staff has done to Bribie’s reputation. My email is oldsalt@powerup.com.au

Frederick VT says:

01:52pm | 06/10/10

You show disdain for the visitors to Bribie and folk from Brisbane Melbourne and Sydney with sweeping generalisation so hatred may not be such a long bow.  Glad you are happy in retirement but the idea Bribie is some Eloi paradise is not what the crime stats say.

The Old Salt says:

04:27pm | 06/10/10

Now sorry I offered the olive branch, Frederick VT. You are obviously interpreting my musings into what you want them to say. All I said about visitors to Bribie was that they did not acknowledge anyone outside their own. That’s their privilege and right. I have no argument with it. So how you manage to interpret that as “hatred” and “distain” is beyond me. And you are tarring everyone in Bribie with the same brush because you had one bad experience (and we only have your word as to what happened . . . is that why you don’t want me trying to smooth the waters?) when you have the gall to accuse me of similar broadstroking.
Good afternoon, Sir. Bigots are all too common these blogs.

The Old Salt says:

11:54am | 06/10/10

Hello jools. While in no way offensive, your comment is rather broad and blase. Maybe island living in the middle of the ocean casts its own spell on people, but I am only a couple of hundred metres from the “mainland” and have been here only two years. But I suppose you could be right because, as I said in a reply to T.Chong, I noticed the difference in attitude the first weekend I moved here (admittedly I had visited the place on day trips often over the years and had friends here so I knew roughly what I was getting into).  I really can’t argue there isn’t a spell. I am retired but spent the last 20-odd years of my working life employed by that Aussie-Yank with the permanently long face Rupert Murdoch. Now when I visit friends and family on “The Mainland” they often comment on how I am actually looking younger. And new people I meet, if the conversation gets around to age, always estimate my age at four to five years younger than I am. This may give you and the other bloggers a better understanding of the value of getting (and giving) an acknowledgement. When you are walking along the beach front, for example, and you make eye contact with the couple approaching you, she usually smiles, you say “Hi” or “Hello” and then he makes a comment about the weather or something equally trite, as you pass. But it doesn’t end there. That brief passing of strangers stays in you mind for quite a few seconds as you think thoughts like “what a nice couple”. By the time you get home, have been through that exercise maybe a dozen or more times, you are feeling pretty good within yourself, and not just because of the physical exercise. The world looks more rosy and you are on a slight high, all because you have had cheery, pleasant interactions with strangers, brief as they might have been. Admittedly I am a senior citizen male and do not have to worry about a smile being taken as a come-on as do young women. And I also admit I am not living in a society where that sort of thing has to be guarded against. Isn’t it a pity the arrogant, thoughtless, selfish few in our society have ruined and changed it forever?

E says:

07:29pm | 06/10/10

Jools, I grew up on Norfolk, left when I was 18, am now 30, and I know exactly the one-fingered wave you are talking about!! Best place in the world!!

pheelion says:

09:58pm | 06/10/10

I once saw this great interview with an Israeli author.  He told a story about being in a cafe or restaurant with his girlfriend when a young Palestinian male walked in with a big coat on that just reached around his torso.  Over half of the patrons, including his girlfriend got up and ran out.  He stayed and the guy took off his coat and he was just fat.  They started talking and the Palestinian said that wasn’t the first time that had happened and he much preferred summer when people could see that he was just fat not loaded with explosives.

Catwoman says:

07:58pm | 06/10/10

Is that you Mr. Wayne

Didn’t you see the bat signal the other night?

I waited for hours. I want flowers